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chimaeracrewandfriends · 2 years

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What’s with all the Gay Imperials?

Hi everyone!

So there’s this trend I’ve been noticing in some of the new “Canon” Star Wars stories we’ve gotten that I’ve been noodling around with in the back of my mind, and I figured that since it’s Pride Month, I’d try to vocalize it. As glad as I am that there are openly gay characters in Star Wars now (none of them from movies or TV of course, have to keep the mainstays of your franchise nice and clean), there is a somewhat unfortunate trend I’ve noticed, where the gay characters tend to be Imperial-aligned.

Below is a chart of all the characters confirmed to be non-straight as well as the stories where their same-sex attraction was referenced:

Obviously, I haven’t read or played everything and there’s only so much Wookiepedia scouring you can do, so if I’ve missed out on anyone, please let me know. I’d love to get examples that prove me wrong. I’m sure there are probably one or two in the High Republic sub-franchise, but I’m so disinterested in that era, I wouldn’t know. Also, I’m only including characters whose same-sex attraction is explicitly referenced in the text/supported by authors’ comments. We can point out blatant homoeroticism and ship characters all day, but what I’m focusing on here is specifically the writers’ intentions. Cause… oh boy, what are their intentions?

So, diving into statistics, of the 12 characters I looked at, 8 of them are Imperial characters. Sinjir Rath Velus and Magna Tolvan are a little complicated as they later defected from the Empire, but even then, 50% Imperial is still not a figure I’m wholly comfortable with. I think that it goes without saying that having your gay characters be fascists (or at least indifferent to fascism) is not a great look. I’m not saying there absolutely shouldn’t be gay Imperials, but them being a majority is bad optics in my opinion. Furthermore, of these 12, I’d say only half of them have their sexuality impact their story. The rest are brief references that don’t really factor in. Which is fine, not every character needs to have a romance storyline, but it is part of this discussion. And to be clear, this just my analysis and opinions, it’s completely valid to disagree with me.

To start with non-Imperials with brief references, we have Sana Starros. She had a relationship with Dr. Aphra in college. That’s about it. And there’s also the (in)famous Amilyn Holdo. She’s one of many characters who makes this list by virtue of mentioning in passing that attraction to a single gender or species felt limiting on one occasion.

For more involved relationships, there’s Kaeden Larte, who was introduced in and has only directly appeared in Ahsoka’s eponymous novel as one of the former Jedi’s many semi-platonic female love interests. And Conder Kyl serves as the main love interest for major POV character Sinjir Rath Velus in the Aftermath trilogy and while their relationship was rocky, they ended up finding purpose in each other.

Despite the problems I have with the writing of the Aftermath trilogy, the alleged insertion of a “gay agenda” isn’t one of them. Rae Sloane mentions offhand that she never had time for relationships with men or women. At least she’s one of the more nuanced Imperials. Similarly, Varko Grey, from the Squadrons game, mentions that he has a husband in one of the many pre-flight npc conversations.

For characters with more focus on their sexuality, let’s start with Delian Mors, who easily could have been another “single throwaway line” character; it’s mentioned in her backstory that her wife died prior to Lords of the Sith. However, it’s also brought up a couple times that as the governor of Ryloth, she enjoys keeping green-skinned, Twi'lek women as servants, behavior that’s certainly imperialistic and fetishistic. After that we’ve got Chelli Loni Aphra and Magna Tolvan from the doctor’s eponymous comic series. Dr. Aphra was basically conceived as “evil Indiana Jones” and is an in-universe Darth Vader fangirl. As mentioned previously, she had a relationship with Sana Starros in the past and over the course of her own comic series she develops a homoerotic cat-and-mouse relationship with imperial Captain Magna Tolvan, who eventually joins the Rebel Alliance. Honestly, I’m fine with gay Imperials like these two, and both of them, specifically Aphra, are well-written. As is Sinjir Rath Velus, a former loyalty officer for the Empire, who later defected to the New Republic. There’s kind of “have your cake and eat it too” when it comes to Velus’s gayngst. Despite assurances that the GFFA isn’t intolerant towards non-heterosexual relationships, he still feels awkward telling a woman he isn’t interested because he’s gay and has trouble with public displays of affection with his boyfriend.

And now we have to talk about Tarkin. Tbh, this one bites. To have arguably one of the most evil and authoritarian characters in the franchise in a same-sex relationship… problematic is a good word for it. Granted, it’s never explicitly stated it’s Tarkin in the story, but context clues indicate that’s who he’s supposed to be. (I haven’t listened to the audiobook, but apparently the voice actor does a Peter Cushing impression for the character.) Although, having read Of MSE-6 and Men, I understand the story potential there; to have someone as stuffy, aristocratic, and high-ranking as Tarkin in a secret relationship with a low-ranking stormtrooper is both comedy and drama gold (the story, as it stands, is merely okay in my opinion). And because there are no female Imperials in the OT, that relationship would have to be gay. (It’s not unlike what you see in fanshipping for media with male-dominated casts, predominant M/M ships are inevitable.) As for TK-421, see above. I will say, it’s somewhat intentionally hilarious that gay icon Luke Skywalker walks around the Death Star impersonating a gay man. Or maybe that was the implication all along.

Overall, I’ll just say I’m not entirely enthused that not only is the cast of characters slanted towards Imperial, but also the Imperials tend to have their sexuality be a bigger part of their characterizations. And I think you could make an argument that there is some inherent harm in having so many villainous gay characters and I’d probably agree with you. But I believe there’s a bit more to it than that. And again, maybe I’m missing a lot of data and there are more heroic gays in stories I haven’t read. I’ll fully admit I’ve read more Imperial-centric stories in the past several years, mostly because I enjoy villains and find Imperial politicking and bickering to be amusing. That and the similarities between the Empire and the U.S. are getting harder to ignore every day.

When concerning some of the more well-written gay relationships or ones with the potential to be narratively rich, it does pose the question “Should certain story developments, regardless of their quality, be avoided because of the unfortunate implications?” The simple answer is “yes” but a more nuanced one is “it depends on the context” which is… not exactly helpful. Because context and presentation are important. Even with a couple of the characters whose sexuality is more prominent, the writers fell into some easy traps vis-a-vis cliche negative stereotypes. As mentioned earlier, Delian Mors’ fetish for Twi'lek women plays into stereotypes about lesbians being predatory. She’s also a drug addict as a result of her wife’s death, which I honestly can’t tell if that’s supposed to make her sympathetic or not. The demonization of drug users is another topic entirely. Even Sinjir’s story hit a speed bump when Jas, who knows he’s gay, assumes that his interest in Temmin Wexley may be sexual, which, even as a passing joke, comes uncomfortably close to associating gay men with pedophilia. It’s these kinds of (hopefully) unconscious biases that can even seep into characters who the writers are putting genuine effort into.

On a related note, we’ve gotten a few transgender characters in Star Wars over the past few years, and as far as I know, none of them are Imperials. This does lend some credence to my theory that writers aren’t intentionally being malicious by having gay Imperial characters in their stories. After all, if their intentions were to make gays look like fascists, why not throw trans people under the bus as well? Based on the available evidence, I believe that some of these writers simply believe (or want to believe) that we live in a post-sexuality society, where it’s okay to have gay villains without there inherently being negative connotations with that association; that there’s no assumed correlation between sexuality and morality. And while that would be nice to think, I’m not so sure that’s where we’re at now.

There is a similar discussion about the prevalence of nonwhite Imperial characters over the past several years. And again, I think that comes from a belief that we live in a post-race society, which is not a new idea, the concept of being “colorblind” in this way started gaining relevance in the 90s. It’s good that we’re having these discussions now, because they’re important. And I think one of the reasons why there’s been more diversity among the Empire’s ranks as of late it that their casts are entirely human as opposed to the multi-species Rebellion and New Republic. So there’s some logistical reasons why, but that shouldn’t be a sole reason, ya’know?

If I wanted to be very, very generous, I could argue that the inclusion of nonwhite, nonmale, nonstraight Imperials does work well as it demonstrates that there will always be people in various marginalized groups that will still want to join and try to benefit from oppressive power structures. There may even be a writer or two that intends that, consciously or not. Because even with a more diverse Imperial cast, the high-ranking officials are still predominantly straight (presumably), white men. But… I think that’s a bit too nuanced of a view for the current crop of Star Wars writers to collectively hold at large.

And you may call me a hypocrite for shipping Thranto and writing slash fanfics with Imperial characters… and that’s not entirely unfair. But, please understand that there’s a big difference between me writing free stories in my little apartment and the published works of a multi-billion dollar media giant.

So after going through all this, I’m going to have to say I’m not opposed to there being gay Imperials, but it would be nice to see some changes. Namely, writers should try to avoid negative stereotypes and write more non-Imperial gay characters, especially ones whose sexuality is more than just a passing reference. Writers should ask themselves “What is the context of this character’s sexuality and what kind of message does it convey?” And, as I said, given that we haven’t seen any transgender Imperials, I think the writers do have the degree of self-awareness to do better. And who knows? Maybe in earlier drafts of stories, there were more heroic gays and they got straight-washed during the editing process, so proportionally more gay Imperials make the final cut. That’s the line I’m taking, writing less gay Imperial characters isn’t as important as writing more gay non-Imperial characters. But at the same time, it shouldn’t just be about hitting some quota. Again, I would like to see a greater level of awareness and consideration of the implications of what they’re writing, which would fundamentally lead to stronger long-lasting change. If the writers truly are well-meaning, this would result in characters whose sexualities are better incorporated into the narrative and would hypothetically lead to more good guy gays because the underlying issues of the creative process have been addressed. I hope that’s not too big of an ask.

Sinjir/Conder and Aphra/Tolvan are great canon gay pairings that we’ve gotten and it would have been a shame to have never gotten them at all because of a complete ban on gay Imperial characters. But it would also be cool to continue to see more couples with that quality of writing, ideally more heroic ones, so I’m not going to put my foot down and say absolutely no gay Imperials. That shouldn’t be the focus, is my main takeaway. The problem isn’t that there are gay Imperials at all, it’s the naivety and unexamined bias (and likely homophobic editors) that led to there being a greater number of gay Imperials. And who knows, I believe starting sometime soon, Star Wars novels will be released under a new publishing house instead of Del Ray. Perhaps they’ll have more progressive editors. Fingers crossed.

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captainpirateface · 1 year

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cohborikardok · 2 years

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i have like 7 books on my TBR right now that i’d like to read before the obi wan show comes out, but i can’t decide which one to read first so currently i’m just not reading any of them

#😖😖😖#i really rapid fire read all those thrawn books and now i’m having such a hard time reading anything else #rambles #anyway the books i’m deciding between are:#leia princess of alderaan #rebel rising #most wanted #lords of the sith #queens peril/queens hope #and the revenge of the sith novelization #all of those either because they might be relevant to what we’ll see in owk #or because that’ll just finish up the books i haven’t read between rots and anh

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this-world-of-beautiful-monsters · 2 years

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Listening to an audible version of Lords of the Sith and I know this will mean almost nothing to anyone, but I love Isval so, so, so much. In this household we fully love and support mentally unwell SA survivors who help lead community-based freedom movements, kill fascist colonizers for therapy, and face Vader down alone with dual-wielded blasters.

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bosquedemel · 1 year

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Review of Lords of the Sith by Paul S. Kemp:

This started.... okay but then it spent more than 100 pages in a single, long action sequence and that’s when I knew I was in for a bumpy ride.

I am not a particular fan of military sci-fi, long, descriptive action sequences or long fighting scenes, whether between people or space/aerial battles, and if you don’t like those either, I’d not recommend this book.

It takes a really good writer to manage to write those kinds of scenes in a way that doesn’t come off as repetitive and tiring (there’s only so many moves you can describe after all). Unfortunately, Kemp isn’t one of those writers: the writing here is sluggish and repetitive (as an example, every time Vader appears and ignites his lightsaber - which is often -, the author feels the need to say he was angry and fell into the Force), and it’s characterized by short, clipped sentences (which I personally detest) making the whole book feel more like a script rather than a novel. A lot more telling than showing (in fact, the whole book is so heavy-handed with the message that Vader must obey his Master, a theme that is repeated everytime those two interact).

To be fair to Kemp, writing so many pages about space battles and other fighting scenes usually ends up like that, no matter how good the author is, but that’s precisely the problem: a lack of revision and editing. Kemp could have cut and trimmed so much of it and nothing would change.

At some point, this lack of revision (which was also apparent on the novel Ahsoka which I, unfortunately, read before this one) is also visible in the inconsistencies, for example, when Vader deactivates his lightsaber and then 3 paragraphs later, deactivates it again. I don’t understand this carelessness from a huge company such as Lucasfilm. It’s almost like they don’t care. And maybe they don’t. It’s also apparent from the general lack of quality control, since writing such as this one is not what I would call publishing-material.

As a result, around page 200 I started “reading” this diagonally and skipping a lot of passages. The ending of the book, while abrupt, wasn’t actually that bad, but nothing noteworthy either. Ultimately, if this had been properly edited down, you’d have a very good novella rather than a very bad novel.

Even more unfortunate for Kemp, though, the edition I read includes the (very) short story “Orientation” by John Jackson Miller, and the writing quality of these two authors is as different as night and day. If only Jackson Miller had written this book.

#lords of the sith #sw books #reviews

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anakinskywalkerog · 2 years

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do you know if the starwars books are any good? I sort of want to read them but also don't want to because it seems like there's a lot

so i actually haven’t read any star wars books, but i have listened to a few of the audiobooks to help me fall asleep 😂 i like listening to audiobooks to help my insomnia, but honestly most of the time i choose ones i don’t really need to pay close attention to. so, ive listened to the Attack of the Clones audiobook, and Lords of the Sith, and i have listened to a little of Brotherhood

honestly i don’t really care about the Star Wars books and i’m sure people will think that’s blasphemy 😂 i haven’t been able to get into them, is all. mb someday i will.

#hayden christensen #star wars #anakin skywalker #obi wan kenobi #star wars prequels #brotherhood #lords of the sith #attack of the clones #anakin #star wars books #answered asks

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bisexualvader · 24 days

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tumblr was so easily corrupted by the dark side

#bunch of sith lords in my notes #evil boop #boop #april fool's day #april fools #star wars #anakin skywalker #sw crack #sw memes #star wars shitpost #aaphra's stuff

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everyr0sehas1tsth0rns · 10 months

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Update: Today I learned that there is a canon Star Wars character named Sergeant Deez

Source: Lords of the Sith by Paul Kemp

#Star wars #lords of the sith #sergeant deez #Not sure if he survives the book #Probably not #Distant cousin of Master Soon Baytes?

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darth-maul-of-dathomir · 2 months

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-Rules and interaction advice-

After an unexpected turn of events on Hypori, Darth Maul is... changed. His mind is dark, swimming with visions of past-present-future that scatter his thoughts and leave him restless. He does not always know when or where he is, but he is always dangerous.

Ask your questions, mind your words. Flippancy will have you barred. (Comment on any post to interact with him in character, either in RP style or as a holonet communication. Please use clean formatting of some kind. OCs, y/n, and canon characters are all welcome to run across him in the wilds.)

He knows his murderer. (Longs to meet him, to fight him again- and again- and again-) Mention that one at your own risk. If you are him, come prepared for instability.

Maul was made into a weapon, refined, for the explicit purpose to kill jedi. If you are from the order, be wary. He does desire to be more than what he was made to be. (Don't we all? And yet.)

This is not a place for the young. If you are, be gone.

The art herein is edited and originally from gffa media or similar sources. For the purpose of story telling, links are not often provided, but available via dm at any time. No AI has been utilized.

Filed under "maul's musings" you will find his journal entries, filled with the lore and sights of Dathomir. These tell an ongoing story, starting with the oldest post and moving forward.

Please use reblogs and tags to make silly or OOC commentary. The comments section is for character interaction.

For the sake of pleasant scrolling, this blog does not reblog other content, but you are welcome to send him links in the ask box.

You do not know him. No one knows him. If you wish to meet him here, introduce yourself. It is only polite.

He is hungry for company, but he is often poor company. Do not come looking for sweetness or regard you have not earned.

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marvelstars · 11 months

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“A thought flashed through Vader’s mind, a stray thought, just for a moment: his Master dead, Vader ruling the Empire, the galaxy, unconstrained by the leash of an old man…”

“Dissent has been crushed, and freedom is a memory, all in the name of peace and order.”

“Do you think treachery begins in the deed, my friend?” ― Paul S. Kemp, Lords of the Sith

#darth vader #anakin skywalker #Sheev Palpatine #Lords of the Sith #Star Wars

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dumpster-fire-deluxe · 1 year

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Good time of day to you, most preeminent rubbish receptacle! I hope this obnoxiously long (1) book rec finds you well, I took my (prescribed) adderall today if it's any consolation lmao

As a fellow palpatine enjoyer, I was wondering if you have read "Lords of the Sith" by Paul S. Kemp? Kemp commits one cardinal sin, in that he uh, he makes Darth Vader run lol, like a lot. He uses the word "sprint" often. But other than THAT, it's stupid good. It's about the early days of the empire and the subjugation of Ryloth.

Both plots are given a similar amount of time and meet together at the end so idfk which is the A plot and which is the B plot, but let's call ryloth's rebellion the B plot, since our sith friends arent in this one til the end.

The A plot? Darth Vader and the Emperor crash land on ryloth (a la RoTS, palpatine even makes a fucking joke about the similarity) in ryloths single jungle, its equatorial (think the amazon for climate, but spread over the entirety of south america for size) with just 2 of palpatines red guards, and all the radios on the whole planet, including imperial transmissions, all of it, are down.

So they're just, stuck there, no help, traipzing through a huge ass old growth forest trying to find "out" with stampede amounts of large bug-like feral carnivorous animals and a small rebellion trying to personally hunt them down (the bug monsters are included in the "personally hunting them down" bit, btw lol)

You get so much insight into how palpatine works, thru his actions, thru how the red guards react to finding out palpatine has the force, what they think of him in general and also through Vader's perspective (pov character), and theres parts throughout where it's clear Vaders being a bit of an unreliable narrator (lol @ him being a reliable narrator) which is always fun, and palpatine's teaching vader darkside lessons and philosophy on their trek, including some excellent zingers and one liners which are v in-character actually, and hes actually participating in the action and violence too, no one but vader and his personal redguard are there so he can use the force willy nilly without having to keep up the weak old man persona and dude goes ABSOLUTELY ham. That robe of his generates ungodly amounts of static electricity, just shocking.

And the A plot, that's Cham Syndulla and his freedom fighters (the characters from the TCW ryloth episodes) and there's twilek/ryl political stuff on the ground and senate levels and theres guerilla warfare and secret missions and theres even spycraft! Really good spycraft!

It's set riiiiight after RoTS, so this is like, the FIRST act of resistance against the Empire. Actually wait, maybe that's why vader keeps running. He hasn't learned he doesn't need to yet, slow learner and all that. I'll downgrade that to a venial sin. But it still displeases me.

It's ~350 pages (8"×4" book, avg paperback size if that helps anyone), but both times I've read it, I finished in under 3 hours, cause its that captivating. It also reads a bit different each time, I noticed new stuff that enhanced the story on ea read, so if you(or followers) have read it already but it was over a year ago, it's def worth it to read again imo.

*****

Medium CW for fatphobia; one of the lady moffs gets compared to a Hutt (only in a few chapters, but its constant in those chapters) and her appearance is spoken about by her direct underling (a pov character) in very, uh, conducive to fascism way. which, apropos ig lol. Hes pretty much the only one doing it tho, like palpatine and vader absolutely have the opportunity to jump in on the fat bashing but neither do.

No wait, palpatine makes fun of orn free taa's appearance, but to my mind it's a 50/50 on whether he was mocking him for being fat or if he was doing a "Jesus this guy sweats a LOT when he's around us, eh vader? Embarrassing for him, huh? Probably thinks he's gonna die. Go ahead and toss him into the bulkhead on your way out I need to make a point later" and the second is more, uh, in character for him, so.

The fact that you're into palpatine of all ppl indicates to me there's probably not a lot of cw's that you'd need, but just incase I wanted to give it cause it's like, very realistic (it's the most realistic part of the damn book, it's star wars lol) and there isn't any warning in the text that its coming. At all. Belkor (pov character) complains about mosquitoes and then goes on a spiel in his head about how fat and gross and gluttonous and lazy his moff is out of fuckin nooooowhere just cause shes in the room now, it's our literal introduction to her character. And I KNOW I have friends that'd be at minimum bothered by that for sure, so, its getting mentioned.

Also by nature of the story being set on ryloth, there's slavery, there's forced sex work, there's a vigilante ex sex worker that murders imperial johns sometimes, for fun. Theres on page drug use, cause its ryloth, the planet where they mine the drugs. But like, nothing about spice remind me of any singular drugs IVE taken (unless you've somehow got access to opium concentrate to mix with some cocaine and a micro dose of lsd lmfao) so i doubt anyones gonna be jonesing for the shit han solo's smuggling if you feel me.

The fatphobia IS jarring though if you're not expecting it, i think Kemp got free reign to be an asshole about her cause shes an imp. He doesnt do it to the other imperials, but i dont think there are other female presenting imperials for him to rub his 2015-era internalized mysogyny all over either.

So, okay, 1 venial sin, 1 cardinal sin that wasnt considered a sin by publishers when the book was written, and probably wouldnt have a hard time going to print today. But (spoilers: but not really, this tells you nothing i could mean anything by this) she gets hers. Also she's a lesbian.

(And no they don't burry their 1 gay if any of your followers want to know before diving in, but also shes not in a relationship it isnt a gay story there's no romance shes just a random fictional facist who likes bush, and its v likely that someone figured they could squeeze a queer in there for brownie points if she was in the bg and a bad guy. She's still a v compelling character tho, and one of the few characters who expirience growth and betters themselves, and good lord the tragic backstory.) Either way id probably hang and that means i say shes cool.

Got it in paperback off thriftbooks for smth like $3, if you/anyone don't have access to a library!

Adderall made me aggressive so you're doing much better on it than I did 😂

and palpatine's teaching vader darkside lessons and philosophy on their trek, including some excellent zingers and one liners which are v in-character actually, and hes actually participating in the action and violence too, no one but vader and his personal redguard are there so he can use the force willy nilly without having to keep up the weak old man persona and dude goes ABSOLUTELY ham

Okay I'm sold I'm gonna read it lmao

The fact that you're into palpatine of all ppl indicates to me there's probably not a lot of cw's that you'd need

Idk why but I laughed so hard at this. "If you're into THAT then you must not be shocked easily". Like, it's so true, I'm known for being stoic or apathetic (I'm the one people confess or vent horrific things to because they know I stay cool as a cucumber). Guess the Palpa-porn was on-brand all along 😂

Thanks for the recommendation! I'd heard of a "Vader-Palpy buddy road trip on Ryloth" book, but I hadn't read it yet. I found the audiobook so this is going to be fun 🎉

#book rec #lords of the sith

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