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pumpkinpaix · 3 years

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Pleeeeeeease get into the class one at some point because I very much want to understand the class dynamics happening in the story but I have yet to find a meta that dives into it

god anon you want me dead don’t you alsjdfljks

referring to this post

okay, so -- my specific salt about class interpretations in mdzs are very targeted. I can’t pretend to have a deep understanding of how class works in mdzs generally because uhhhhh yeah i don’t think i have that. i’m just not familiar enough with the genre and/or the particulars of chinese class systems. but! i can talk in general terms as to why I feel a certain way about the class dynamics that I do think I understand and how I think they relate to the themes of the novel! i’m gonna talk about wei wuxian, the daozhangs, xue yang, and 3zun with, I’m sure, a bunch of digressions along the way.

the usual disclaimers: i do not think you are a bad person if you hold opinions contrary to my own. i may disagree with you very strongly, but like. this isn’t a moral judgment, fandom is transformative and interpretive etc. etc. and i may change my mind. who knows what the future will bring!

OKAY so let’s begin!

here’s the thing about wei wuxian: he’s not poor. I think because characters use “son of a servant” kind of often when they’re trying to insult him, a lot of people latch onto that and think that it’s a much stronger indication of his societal status than it actually is. iirc, most of the insults that fall along the “son of a servant” line come after wei wuxian starts breaking severely from tradition. it’s a convenient thing to attack him for, but doesn’t actually indicate anything about his wealth. (exception: yu ziyuan, but that’s a personal familial issue) this is in direct contrast to jin guangyao who is constantly mocked for his family line, publicly and privately, no matter what he does.

so this, coupled with all the jokes about wwx never having any money (wei wuqian, sizhui’s “i’ve long since known you had no money” etc.), plus his like, rough years on the street as a child ends up producing this interpretation of wei wuxian, especially in modern aus, as someone who is very class conscious and “eat the rich”. but the fact of the matter is, wei wuxian IS rich. aside from the years in his childhood and the last two years of his life in yiling, like -- wei wuxian had money and status. he is gentry. he is respected as gentry. he is treated as a son by the sect leader of yunmeng jiang -- he does not have the jiang name, but it is so very clear that jiang fengmian favors him. wei wuxian is ranked fourth of all the eligible young masters in the cultivation world -- that is not a ranking he could have attained without being accepted into the upper class.

wei wuxian’s poverty does not affect him in the way that it affects jin guangyao or xue yang. he is of low-ish birth (still the son of jiang fengmian’s right hand man though! ok sure, “son of a servant” but like. >_> whatever anyways), but for most of his life he had money. he, jiang cheng, and their sect brothers go into town and steal lotus pods with the understanding that “jiang-shushu will pay for it”. this is a regular thing! that’s fucking rich kid behavior!!! wei wuxian is careless with money because he doesn’t have to worry about it. he still has almost all the benefits of being upper class: education, food security, respect, recognition etc. I think there may also be a misconception that wei wuxian was always on the verge of being kicked out by yu ziyuan, or that he was constantly walking on eggshells around her for fear of being disowned, but that is just textually untrue. i could provide receipts, but I admittedly don’t really feel like digging them up just now ;;

even in his last years in yiling, he was not the one who was dealing with the acute knowledge of poverty: wen qing is the one managing the money, and as far as we know, wei wuxian did little to no management of daily life during the burial mounds days -- mostly, he’s described as hiding in his cave for days on end, working on his inventions, running around like a force of chaos, frivolously making a mess of things -- it’s very very cute that he buries a’yuan in the dirt, but in classic wei wuxian fashion, he did Not think about the practical consequences of it -- that A’Yuan has no other clean clothes, and now he’s gotten this set dirty and has no intention of washing them. is this a personality thing? yeah, but I think it’s also indicative of his lack of concern over the logistics of everyday survival, re: wealth.

furthermore, i think it is important to remember that wei wuxian, when he is protecting the wen remnants, is not protecting common folk: he is still protecting gentry. fallen gentry, yes! but gentry nonetheless. wen qing was favored by wen ruohan, and wen ning himself says that he has a retinue of people under his command (the remnants, essentially). their branch of the family do not have the experience of living and growing in poverty -- they are impoverished and persecuted in their last years, but that’s a very different thing from being impoverished your whole life. (sidenote: I do not believe wei wuxian’s primary motivation for defending the wen remnants was justice -- i believe he did it because he felt he owed wen ning and wen qing a life debt, and once he was there, he wasn’t going to stand around and let the work camps go on. yes, he is concerned about justice and doing the right thing, but that’s not why he went in the first place. anyways, that’s another meta)

after wei wuxian returns, he then marries back into gentry, and very wealthy gentry at that. lwj provides him all the money he could ever want, he is never worried about going homeless, starving, being denied opportunities based on his class and accompanying disadvantages. who would dare? and neither wei wuxian nor lan wangji seem to have much interest in shaking up the order of things, except in little things like the way they teach the juniors. they live in gusu, under the auspices of the lan, and they live a happy, domestic life.

were his years on the street traumatizing? yes, of course they were, there’s so much delicious character exploration to be done re: wei wuxian’s relationship to food, his relationship to his own needs, and his relationship to the people he loves. it’s all important and good! but I feel very strongly that that experience, while it was formative for him, did not impart any true understanding of poverty and the common person’s everyday struggles, nor do I think he ever really gains that understanding. he is observant and canny and aware of class and blood, certainly, but not in a way that makes it his primary hill to die on (badum-tss).

this is in very stark contrast to characters like jin guangyao and xue yang, and to some extent, xiao xingchen and song lan. I’ll start with the daozhangs, because I think they’re the simplest (??).

I think both xiao xingchen and song lan have class consciousness, but in a very simplified, broad-strokes kind of way (at least, given the information we know about them). we know that the two of them share similar values and want to one day form their own sect that gives no weight to the nobility of your lineage and has no concern with your wealth. we also know that they both disdain intersect politics and are more concerned with ideals and principles rather than status. but, I think because of that, this actually somewhat limits their perception and understanding of how status is used to oppress. as far as we know, neither of them participated on any side in sunshot and they demonstrate much more interest in relating to the commoners. honestly, i hc that they were flitting around trying to help decimated towns, protecting defenseless villages etc. I ALSO think this has a lot of interesting potential in terms of xiao xingchen and wei wuxian’s relationship, if xiao xingchen is ever revived. regardless of whether you’re in CQL or novel verse, xiao xingchen really doesn’t know wei wuxian at all, other than knowing that he’s his shijie’s son. he knows that cangse-sanren met with a tragic end, like yanling-daoren before her, and that he wants to be different. but here is cangse-sanren’s son, laying waste to entire cities, desecrating the dead. I would very much like to get into xiao xingchen’s head during that period of time (and i think, if i do it right, i can write some of it into the songxiao fixit), but that’s neither here nor there, because i’ve wandered off from my point again.

i would posit that song lan is used to an ascetic lifestyle, and xiao xingchen probably is too -- but that’s different from poverty because there’s an element of choice to it. I also think that neither of them is particularly worldly, xiao xingchen especially. he lived on an isolated mountain until he was like, seventeen, and he came down full of ideals and naivete about how the world worked. I think that both of them see inequality, that they are angered by it, and that they want to do something about it -- but their solution is neither to topple the sects, nor is it to reform the system. rather, it seems to be more about withdrawing and creating their own removed world. I think that the daozhangs embody a kind of utopianism that isn’t present in the minds of any of the other characters, not even wangxian. honestly, baoshan-sanren’s mountain is a utopian ideal, but one that is not described. it exists outside of and beyond the world. i have a lot of jumbled, vague thoughts about utopianism generally, mostly informed by china miéville and ursula k. le guin, and I don’t think i have the ability to articulate them here, but i wanted to. hm. say something? there is something about the inherent dystopianism contained within every utopia, that utopias are necessary, but also reflections of the existence of terrible things in their conception. idk. there’s something in there, I know it!! but i suppose what I want to say is -- i do not think the daozhangs understand class and social hierarchy very deeply because they don’t see a need to examine it deeply. for their goals, the details aren’t the point. they’re not looking to reform within the system, they’re looking to build something outside of it. I think they spend a lot of time concerned with alleviating the symptoms of social oppression, and their values reflect the injustices they witness there.

regardless, even if their story ends in tragedy and there is a certain amount of critique re: the utopian approach, i think the text still emphasizes that xiao xingchen left a utopia and that he thought that people mattered enough for him to try, and that was an incredibly honorable, kind, and human thing to do.

YEAH SURE THE DAOZHANGS ARE THE SIMPLEST ok ok RETURNING to class and moving forward: xue yang.

i also don’t think xue yang has class consciousness lol, or not in any way that really matters, but I do think poverty impacted him in a much stronger way than it impacted wei wuxian. wei wuxian spent some years on the street as a child. xue yang grew up on the streets. chang ci’an’s horrific treatment of him was directly due to his class and social standing: chang ci’an is a nobleman and xue yang is not even worth the dirt beneath the wheels of his cart. what I think is the seminal point though, is that this does not make xue yang think particularly deeply about systemic injustice, because xue yang is so self-centered, self-driven, and individualistic. he is not even slightly concerned about how poverty and class might affect other people -- they’re other people. what he takes away from his experience is not an anger at being wrongfully cheated by a system, but an anger at being wrongfully cheated by a specific man.

xue yang is not particularly concerned with the politics of the aristocracy -- he has no obvious ambitions other than, “i want to eat sweets whenever i please”, “i want to hurt anyone who wrongs me”, and “i want to be so strong that no one can hurt me”. like, he just doesn’t care -- it’s not the kind of power he wants. he sneers at people for like, personal reasons, not class reasons -- “you think you’re better than me” re: xiao xingchen and song lan. to him, all people -- poor, wealthy, noble, common -- are essentially equal, and they are all beneath him. after all, what does he care what family someone comes from, how much money they have? everyone bleeds when you cut them. some of them might be harder to get to than others, but xue yang does not fear that sort of thing. it’s just another obstacle he needs to vault on his way to getting revenge and/or a pastry.

ANYWAYS onto jin guangyao (wow this is hm. getting rather long ahaha oh dear): I would argue that the two characters with the most acute understanding of class/societal politics and the injustice of them are jin guangyao and lan xichen. i’ll start with jin guangyao for obvious reasons.

where xue yang took the damaging effects of poverty as personal slights, I think jin guangyao is painfully aware that there is nothing personal about them, which is, in some ways, much worse. why are two sons, born on the same day to the same father, treated so differently? just because.

he watched his mother struggle and starve and work herself to the bone in a profession where she was constantly disrespected and abused for almost nothing in return, while his father could have lifted her out of poverty with the wave of a finger. why didn’t he? because he didn’t like her? no -- because he didn’t care, and the structures of the society they live in protect that kind of blase treatment of the lower class.

“so my mother couldn’t choose her own fate, is that her fault?” jin guangyao demands. he knows that he is unbelievably talented, that he has ambition, that he has potential, and that all of it is beyond his grasp just because his father didn’t want to bother with it. his mother’s life was destroyed, and his own opportunities were crippled with that negligence. it isn’t personal. that’s just the way things are. your individual identity is meaningless, your humanity does not exist. when he’s kicked down the steps of jinlin tai, it’s just more confirmation that no matter how talented or hardworking he is, no one will give him the time of day unless he finds a way to take it himself and become someone who “matters”.

jin guangyao’s cultivation is weak because he had a poor foundation, and he had a poor foundation because he was denied access to a good one. he copies others because that’s all he can do at this point, and he copies so well that he can hold his own against some of the strongest cultivators of his generation. he’s disparaged for copying and “stealing” techniques, but -- he never would have had to if only he had been born/accepted into the upper class. the fact is that i really do think jin guangyao was the most promising cultivator of his generation that we meet, including the twin jades and wei wuxian: he had natural talent, ambition, creativity, determination and cunning in spades. in some ways, I think that’s one of the overlooked tragedies of jin guangyao: the loss of not just the good man he could have been, but the powerful one too. imagine what he could have done.

jin guangyao spends his entire time in the world of the aristocracy feeling unsteady and terrified because he knows exactly how precarious his position is. he knows how easy it is to lose power, especially for someone like him. he’s working against so many disadvantages, and every scrap of honor he gets is a vicious battle. jin guangyao fears, and I think that’s something that’s lacking in xue yang, wei wuxian and the daozhangs’ experiences/understandings of poverty. i think it’s precisely that fear that emphasizes jin guangyao’s understanding of class and blood. jin guangyao exhibits an anxiety that neither wei wuxian nor xue yang do, and it’s because he truly knows how little he is worth in the eyes of society and how little there is he can do to change that. to me, it very much feels related to the anxiety of not knowing if tomorrow you’ll have something to eat, if tomorrow you’ll still have a home, if tomorrow someone will destroy you and never have to answer for it. it’s the anxiety of knowing helplessness intimately.

moreover, jin guangyao is the only person shown to use the wealth and power at his disposal to take concrete steps to actually help the common people typically ignored by the powerful -- the watchtowers. they’re described in chapter 42. it’s a system that is designed to cover remote areas that most cultivators are reluctant to go due to their inconvenience and the lack of means of the people who live there. the watchtowers assign cultivators to different posts, give aid to those previously forgotten, and if the people are too poor to pay what the cultivators demand, the lanling jin sect pays for it. jin guangyao worked on this for five years and burned a lot of bridges over it. people were strongly opposed to it, thinking that it was some kind of ploy for lanling jin’s personal benefit. but the thing is -- it worked. they were effective. people were helped.

i believe CQL frames the watchtowers as an allegory for a surveillance state/centralized control (i think?? it’s been a minute -- that’s the hazy impression i remember, something like a parallel to the wen supervisory offices?), but I personally don’t think that was the intent in the novel. the watchtowers are a public good. lanling jin doesn’t staff them with their own sect members -- they get nearby sects to staff them. it’s a warning network that they fund that’s supposed to benefit everyone, even those that everyone had considered expendable.

(did jin guangyao do terrible things to achieve this goal? yeah lol. it’s not confirmed, but his son sure did die... suspiciously...... at the hands of an outspoken critic of the watchtowers........ whom he then executed....... so like, maybe just a convenient coincidence for jin guangyao, two birds one stone, but. it seems. Unlikely.)

lan xichen is the only member of the gentry that ever shows serious compassion for and nuanced understanding of jin guangyao’s circumstances. lan xichen treats him as his equal regardless of jin guangyao’s current status -- even when he was meng yao, lan xichen treated him as a human being worthy of respect, as someone with great merits, as someone he would choose as a friend, but he did so knowing full well the delicate position meng yao occupied. this is in direct contrast to nie mingjue, who also believed that meng yao was worthy of respect as a human being, but was completely unable to comprehend the complexities of his circumstances and unwilling to grant him any grace. you know, the difference between “i acknowledge that your birth and status have had effects upon you, but I don’t think less of you for it” and “i don’t consider your birth and status at all when i interact with you because i think it is irrelevant” (“i don’t see color” anyone?)

to illustrate, from chapter 48:

大抵是觉得娼妓之子身上说不定也带着什么不干净的东西，这几名修士接过他双手奉上来的茶盏后，并不饮下，而是放到一边，还取出雪白的手巾，很难受似的，有意无意反复擦拭刚才碰过茶盏的手指。聂明玦并非细致之人，未曾注意到这种细节，魏无羡却用眼角余光扫到了这些。孟瑶视若未见，笑容不坠半分，继续奉茶。蓝曦臣接过茶盏之时，抬眸看他一眼，微笑道：“多谢。”

旋即低头饮了一口，这才继续与聂明玦交谈。旁的修士见了，有些不自在起来。

rough tl:

Probably because they believed that the son of a prostitute might also carry some unclean things upon his person, after these few cultivators took the teacups offered from [Meng Yao’s] two hands, they did not drink, but instead put them to one side, and furthermore brought out snow white handkerchiefs. Quite uncomfortably, and whether they were aware of it or not, they repeatedly wiped the fingers they had just used to touch the teacups. Nie Mingjue was not a detail-oriented person and never took note of such particulars, but Wei Wuxian caught these in the corner of his eye. Meng Yao appeared as if he had not seen, his smile unwavering in the slightest, and continued to serve tea. When Lan Xichen took the teacup, he glanced up at him and, smiling, said, “Thank you.”

He immediately dipped his head to take a sip, and only then continued to converse with Nie Mingjue. Seeing this, the nearby cultivators began to feel somewhat uneasy.

all right, since we’re in full cyan-rampaging-through-the-weeds mode at this point, i’m going to talk about how this is one of my favorite 3zun moments in the entire novel for characterization purposes because it really highlights how they all relate to one another, and to what degree each of them is aware of their own position in relation to the others and society as a whole.

1. nie mingjue, who is a forthright and blunt person, sets meng yao to serving tea and is done with it. he notices nothing wrong or inappropriate about the reactions of the people in the room because it’s not the sort of thing he considers important.

2. meng yao, knowing that his only avenue is to take it lying down with a smile, masks perfectly.

3. lan xichen, noticing all this, uses his own reputation to achieve two things at once: pointedly shame the other cultivators in attendance, and show meng yao that regardless of others’ opinions, he considers him an equal and does not endorse such behavior--and he does it while taking care that no fallout will come down on meng yao’s head.

is this yet another installment of cyan’s endless lxc defense thesis? why yes it is! no one is surprised! but this is my whole point: both meng yao and lan xichen understand the respective hierarchy and power dynamics within the room, while nie mingjue very much does not. this is not because nie mingjue is a bad person or because nie mingjue is stupid--it’s a combination of personality and upbringing. nie mingjue is straightforward and has no patience for such games. but then again, he can afford not to play because he was born into such a high position: that’s a privilege.

to break it down: meng yao knows that he is the lowest-ranked person in the room, sees the way people are subtly disrespecting him in full view of his general who is doing nothing about it. in some ways, this is good -- nie mingjue’s style of dealing with conflict is very direct and not at all suited to delicate political maneuvering. after all, the way he promoted meng yao was actually quite dangerous to meng yao: he essentially guaranteed that his men would bear meng yao a grudge and that their disrespect for him would only be compounded by their bitterness at being punished on his behalf. (it’s like, why often getting parents or teachers to intervene ineffectively in bullying can just be an incitement to more bullying -- same concept) meng yao’s reaction during that scene shows that he’s pretty painfully aware of this and is trying to defuse the situation to no avail. nie mingjue gives him a bootstrap speech (rip nie mingjue i love u so much but. sir) and then promotes him, which is pretty much the only saving grace of that entire exchange, for meng yao at least.

lan xichen, on the other hand, understands both that meng yao is the lowest-ranked person in the room and that any direct attempt to chastise the other cultivators in the room will only serve to hurt meng yao in the long run. he knows that if this were brought to nie mingjue’s attention, he would be outraged and not shy about it -- also bad for meng yao. so he uses what he has: his immaculate reputation. by acting contrary to the other cultivators’ behavior, he demonstrates that he finds their actions unacceptable but with the plausible deniability that it wasn’t directed at them, that this is just zewu-jun being his usual generous self. this means that the other cultivators have no one to blame but themselves, nothing to do but question their own actions. there is nowhere to cast off their discomfort. meng yao didn’t do anything. lan xichen didn’t do anything -- he just thanked meng yao and drank his tea, isn’t that what it’s there for? he doesn’t disrupt the peace, he doesn’t attack anyone and put them on the defensive, but he does make his position very clear.

i know this is a really small thing and i’m probably beating it to death, but I really think this shows just how cognizant lan xichen is of politics and emotional cause and effect in such situations. certainly, out of context I think the scene reads kind of cliche, but within the greater narrative of the story and within the arc of these characters specifically, I think it was a really smart scene to include. it also showcases lan xichen’s style of action: that he moves around and with a problematic situation as opposed to moving straight through.

not to be salty on main again, but this is why it’s very frustrating to me when I see people call lan xichen passive when he is anything but. his actions just don’t look like traditional “actions”, especially to an american audience. it’s easy to understand lan wangji and wei wuxian’s style of problem-solving: taking a stand, moving through, staying strong. lan xichen is juggling an inconceivable number of factors in any given situation, weighing his responsibilities in one role against those in another, and then trying to find the path through the thicket that will cause the least harm, both to himself and the thicket. lan wangji and wei wuxian are not particularly good at considering the far-reaching consequences of their actions -- again, not because they are bad people, but because of a combination of personality and upbringing. they’d just hack through the thicket, not thinking about the creatures that live in it. that is not a terrible thing! it isn’t. it’s a different way of approaching a problem, and it has different priorities. that’s okay. there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides, and where you come down is going to depend on your personal values.

okay we’ve spiraled far and away from my original point, but let’s circle back: i was talking about class.

I think it’s undeniable that class, birthright, fate etc. are some of the driving forces of thematic conflict in mdzs, and the way each character interacts with those forces reveals a lot about themselves and also about the larger themes of fate, chance, and what it means to be righteous and good and how that is and isn’t rewarded. a lot of the tragedy of mdzs (the tragedy that isn’t caused by direct aggression on the part of one group or another) stems from the injustices and slights that people suffered due to their lot in life. it isn’t fair. none of it is fair! we sympathize with jin guangyao because we recognize that what he suffered was unconscionable, even if we don’t excuse him. i sympathize A Lot with xue yang as well for similar reasons, though I understand that’s a harder sell. this is a story focused on the mistakes of an entrenched, aging gentry and the effects that those mistakes had on their children, and a lot of it has to do with prejudice based in class and birth status. whether the prejudice was the true reason or whether it was just a convenient excuse, the fact remains that the systems in place rewarded and protected the people in power who used it to cling to that power. mdzs is also a story of how the circumstances of one’s life can offer you impossible choices that you cannot abstain from, and it asks us to be compassionate to the people who made terrible choices in terrible times. it’s about the inherent complexity in all things! that sometimes, there are no good choices, and i don’t know, i’d like to think that people would show me compassion if I had to make the choices some of these characters did. not just wei wuxian, mind you, every single one of them. except jin guangshan because I Do Hate Him sorry. and i guess wen ruohan. i think that’s it.

good. GOD this is clocking in at //checks notes -- just over 5k. 8′D *stuffs some weeds into my mouth like the clown i am*

(ko-fi? :’D *lies down*)

2K notes · View notes

pocketfulofrecs · 3 years

Text

ChilianXianzi was one of the first authors I (Dee) read in this fandom and These Mortal Treasures was one of the first fics I read. ChilianXianzi has a great writing style and you’re fully immersed into the story she’s weaving. We are really looking forward to anything she writes in the future.

She has written 39k+ words on 7 works, both mdzs and cql canon. You can find her @chilianxianzi on Tumblr.

Her fics:

To Not Vainly Break Branches - [mature | 3k | wip | emperor LWJ/empress WWX]

For Safekeeping Purposes - [mature | 2.9k | crime boss/sugar daddy LWJ]

The Shadows of My Old Places, Falling Across the Moats - [teen | 8.4k | QHJ goes to Burial Mounds]

To Start A Bridge From A Single Log - [teen | 4.7k | epistolary]

These Mortal Treasures (our post) - [teen | 9.3k | dragonji]

They say - [teen | 3.1k | LWJ is troubled by rumors]

Proximity to Knowledge (our post) - [teen | 7.2k | WWX protection squad]

Dee’s favourite: These Mortal Treasures, definitely. It is one of the first fics I read when I entered this fandom. It is also one that planted the idea of writing a dragon fic. I really love it. The story, the pacing, LWJ’s response to WWX, everything.

Ju’s favourite: Proximity to Knowledge! I love genius WWX, and I love WWX and his ducklings, and this fic gives me both so well! Jingyi pov is so much fun, and all the juniors doing whatever they can to be close to WWX and learn from him just makes me so happy. It’s a really good fic to read when you’re feeling down.

The Interview:

Q. When did you start writing fics? Did you have fandoms before this one?

A. I think around 2006-ish? I used to write character and quest mods for Baldur's Gate 2 before I went through the Knights of the Old Republic fandom and the whole ouvre of Bioware's games, although Dragon Age was the fandom I was most involved in and wrote the most for. There was of course a Harry Potter phase amidst all that, as one does, but also a good deal of Sailor Moon.

Q. What made you start writing for MDZS?

A. Definitely the worldbuilding and the issues and themes raised in canon. In a way, MDZS is the complete package of family issues, class issues, communal responsibilities, my childhood love for Wuxia/Xianxia, and the increasingly dangerous and volatile court of public opinion - which is also reflected very prominently in the MDZS fandom proper.

And let's not forget the Wangxian, because they're just a couple that works not just because they look good together (They do) and have a deep love for each other (Hell yeah they also do), but they also work perfectly together because they are constantly, stubbornly striving for the same values in a world where such values often come second after ideas of honor and performative righteousness.

Q. What’s your favourite fic you’ve written?

A. It's an ongoing one and it's called "To Start a Bridge From A Single Log" where I wanted to explore the possible uses of Cultivation outside of the super insular scope of the cultivation world and how that would impact both communities, because all of these hogging of spiritual resources, I cannot stand it. But it also has ridiculous amounts of Wangxian mutual pining so there's that, it's just all my favorite things piled up together.

Q. What’s your favourite type of fics to read?

A. Oh, it really depends on my mood at the moment like that's why rec blogs like this is just so *mwah chef's kiss* because there's just a ready selection of different stuff for different occasions! In the MDZS fandom, I do gravitate towards fics about Wei Wuxian finding a home and his place in the world outside of his Jiang upbringing, or fics where Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian just work together realizing their mutual vow, being a good role model for the juniors.

Q. What’s your favourite comment? Or type of comment?

A. Any comment is a favorite, honestly! Writing stories are just like talking to people right, so being answered is always nice :D I suppose whatever the comment is, it's just always really interesting and heartening to see that parts of what you're talking about resonates with other people, enough to get an answer in words :)

Q. What motivates you to write?

A. I think I'm inherently a very angry person. Like literally the way I set my career path had been to find what things made me the most angry and do my best to fix it, and I feel like that's also my approach to writing. I would tackle something I think is a problem or a question that makes me angry and try to find my way through it via the characters and worldbuilding - And even if in the end the problems don't get solved or the questions are not answered, there would still be dialogue incited and there would still be the process of seeing said problem from many perspectives as writing (and reading!) encourages you to do.

Q. Who’s your favorite author?

A. The authors that really stayed with me are the Shoujo mangakas of the late 80s and the 90s, because they gave me examples on so many different ways to express myself outside of the one-note "girls should be like this" sentiments that were still somewhat prevalent when I grew up. My favorite has to be Kyoko Hikawa, though. Other writers would probably be Margaret Atwood and Nnedi Okorafor because of the way they talk about many issues through stories so they're not directly talking about it but still kinda blatantly talking about it.

Q. What is your favorite trope to read and/or write?

A. Curtain fics! There's just something inherently telling about how a character approaches the everyday and its logistics, because in a way these everyday things around them are also the things that molded and shaped them to be who they are.

Q. Do you have any advice for new authors?

A. I guess start small? I used to teach piano and after all the godawful finger exercises and endless scales it's always SO nice and validating for the kids (and adults!) to be able to complete an actual song, even if it's just a tiny piece of twelve bars. And I feel like it's a bit like that with writing too, the joy of just like, finishing something with your own hands and then having people hear/read it is such a great motivator to do more. Like we could totally start with super simple goals and as we go on, the goals or the objectives could become bigger or more diverse.

Q. What do you think is the most important element in writing? Plot, characterization, relationship?

A. I really think it depends on what kind of experience you're looking for your readers to have? For me, some plots or concepts are so engaging that you'd be fine even if the characters are switched to another fandom, and some fics have such good characterization that it happening in limbo would be fine with me, that kind of thing. I guess it's also fun to experiment with each pressure point and see which feelings and reactions from readers (and yourself!) you gain from each you love the most and how to combine each element in a portion that works out for you.

Check out their stories on ao3 and remember…

Comments and kudos feed the author’s soul.

#mdzs #author spotlight #chilianxianzi

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crossdressingdeath · 3 years

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It infuriates me when people say that "oh it wasn't their fault JGY manipulated them" for every bad thing happening in MDZS. Especially in defense of JC. Like yes, he manipulated a lot of people and he's a murderous little bastard, but even when JGY put his hand in, the person still made the choice. JC, especially because of the CQL, is treated like a poor little baby due to this. Manipulation to cause harm and actually causing harm are two separate things. Very similar, but still different. And honestly, it wasn't even very hard for JC to go off, he didn't even need manipulation. It's also hypocritical of JC stans to criticize JGY and WWX of being mass murderers and killers when JC is guilty of the same thing and more!

I think the trouble is that people often miss that just because there are situations in the novel where "JGY manipulated them" largely (though never completely) absolves a character of guilt doesn't mean that that applies to every character JGY ever talks to. Like... we know JGY is a master manipulator, but one of the interesting things about him is that if we look at just the main cast he... very rarely does. He manipulates LXC into not seeing him as suspicious (although I'd argue that that's at least partially incidental and related to him genuinely wanting to be LXC's friend), but otherwise he seems to mostly just... occasionally suggest the cast act on their preexisting impulses. Hell, it's usually JGS making the suggestions! For instance, it's JGS who's all "Hey, Sect Leader Jiang, your second in command insulted you one time" and then JC is like "Shit, did he? I'd better kill him". That's the thing with the manipulators in MDZS; all they do is get the ball rolling. They'll make a suggestion, they'll tell a couple lies, and that is all it takes for whoever they're talking to to go full mass murderer. JC is the perfect example, because as far as we know the Jins did practically nothing! JGS said WWX insulted JC (and was immediately shot down by Lan "never ever lies ever" Wangji) and then claimed the Wens JC knew for a fact were civilians were actually an army; there's no mention of them doing anything beyond that. They were at most an excuse for JC to do what he already wanted to, because JC knew from what he'd seen with his own eyes that everything they were saying was bullshit.

And yeah, people act like manipulation completely removes all culpability from the shoulders of the person who actually did whatever deed is being discussed when... that's not how it works. And because it's mostly JC people keep trying to absolve of guilt by claiming he was manipulated: not only was he not manipulated himself on account of being one of the only people who went to the Burial Mounds and saw the Wen remnants (meaning he had all the information that JGY and JGS were hiding from everyone else to manipulate them into killing a bunch of civilians), he actually does a good chunk of the manipulating for the Jins! Remember, he actively hides the fact that the Wens a) are civilians and b) are led by the people who risked their lives protecting him after Lotus Pier fell in favour of telling everyone that WWX is a traitor for... fulfilling JC's life debts for him. This is the sort of manipulation that removes culpability from a person, because the people JC's talking to aren't getting the full story. Because he's hiding it from them. So if people are going to insist that JC shouldn't be held culpable for anything because "JGY manipulated him" (footage not found), then everyone involved in the first siege of the Burial Mounds except JGS, JGY and JC is totally innocent because the three of them are, as far as we know, the only cast members who actually knew what was happening. And yet people keep insisting that everyone is guilty except JC! Very strange, that one of the only people who actually knew what was happening is also the only one who isn't guilty. People should just admit that the "JGY manipulated them" line is just about scrambling for an excuse to insist that JC willingly slaughtering a civilian population out of sheer spite and desire for revenge against people who were already dead isn't a completely morally bankrupt act already.

And yeah, it's incredibly hypocritical that people both in and out of universe freak out over WWX and JGY being mass murderers when a) WWX only acted in self defence and b) JC is also a mass murderer. And a serial killer! Which JGY and WWX are not! Keep that in mind next time you read the bit where the sects all turn on JGY; they are doing this in the presence of a known serial killer who tortures people to death and doesn't even benefit from it (one thing you can say about JGY is that he never kills anyone without some sort of tangible benefit) with no intention of doing anything about him. I'm not suggesting that JGY shouldn't have been dealt with for his crimes, but... just keep in mind that they're doing all this with the support and arguably under the leadership of a guy who has brutally tortured so many people to death that his entire reputation is based around it. And do nothing about that at any point. Classism is alive and well among the sects.

#this started as a 'stop claiming jc's innocent because he was ~manipulated~'#and turned into 'the sects are all horribly classist and you can tell because they'll kill jgy but not the serial killer'#it's either because jc isn't targeting the sects or because he was born heir to yunmeng but either way it's classist #mdzs #grapehate #jin guangyao #asks #anon

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spockandawe · 2 years

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MDZS/CQL for the blorbo meme

blorbo (favorite character, character I think about the most)

JIANG CHENG. Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji are compelling and stuff, I adore a surprising proportion of the cast considering how badly they all hurt people I love (each other), but a lot of stories.... resolve one way or another. Wei Wuxian's story swells, emotionally, and then begins the process of resolution. Because he's the protagonist. Jin Guangyao's story ramps up and up, and then ramps (abruptly) down. Nie Mingjue's story kind of... looms, at the edges of the narrative, but whatever potential was in there, it Concluded.

But for most of these characters, as much as they make me ache, their story has an ending. Jiang Cheng leaves me anxious and hanging. That's not an absolute statement, the story painstakingly carves out a potential path from what seemed like an inescapable emotional pit and forces him (and wei wuxian) to see that it's there. But the process of carving out that path is what takes up the book. Lan Xichen gives me some similar feelings, but he's not prone to the same sort of self-sabotaging spirals that compel me. It is not made at all clear where Nie Huaisang goes following the conclusion, but he doesn't have me this interested. The book and the actor both sketch out all kinds of messy+ugly (+compelling!!) emotional depths for Jiang Cheng, and lord knows how long it'll be before I stop thinking about him.

scrunkly (my “baby”, character that gives me cuteness aggression, character that is So Shaped)

......Xue Yang. Look. Look. I recognize that a lot of this is the killer acting job we were blessed with in CQL, but i have a Type. I just made a jokey comment about how yeah, mass murder is super compatible with being Baby, it's about lack of emotional regulation and impulse control, but you've got increased motor control and access to knives. There's something about him where the... softer side of human interaction is extremely new and foreign to him, he doesn't GET it, he doesn't know what to think about it, and that 100% activates my cute aggression centers.

scrimblo bimblo (underrated/underappreciated fave)

Hmm. This is hard, in a story like this. There aren't any characters where I'm like, frothing at the mouth over how people don't adore them as much as I do. Wait, actually, I've got it. Lan Qiren. He's got people who appreciate him, but I have such feelings about the way he was unexpectedly catapulted into his sect leadership/child parenting position by his brother's actions, all the things written between the lines about how difficult and traumatic that would have been, what an abrupt change in the life he expected, the feeling of abandonment by one, a brother he trusted, and two, a leader whose judgment he trusted, and how he's slow to adapt when one of his nephews is captivated by someone who's making the sort of reckless dangerous decisions that were so formative for Lan Qiren when he was younger. Lan Qiren isn't perfect, but he's struggling and trying, and that's what I want in a character, even one who's standing in nominal opposition to my sympathetic protagonist

glup shitto (obscure fave, character that can appear in the background for 0.2 seconds and I won’t shut up about it for a week)

Oh boy. Hmm. It's hard to say obscure in a story like this, because there's a pretty clearly defined (large) central cast, and peripheral bit parts. A lot of the bit part characters operate a bit part piece of my heart. But I think I'm going to say Mo Xuanyu, for reasons I will go into in the next question

poor little meow meow (“problematic”/unpopular/controversial/otherwise pathetic fave)

We're leaning into the 'pathetic' angle very hard here, and 'unpopular' as in the sense of 'this character absolutely destroyed himself to set the plot in motion, and barely anyone comments on his life or death, even though the protagonist is technically piloting his meat sack around in all the present scenes. But... yeah, Mo Xuanyu. He gets a little more attention in the book, but only because things are Awkward, because he totally tried to hit on his half-brother, and when it becomes clear that he's actually Wei Wuxian... yeah, his death passes almost completely unremarked.

And also, to be clear, this story would rip my throat out if that was a central focus. It would be a lot harder for me to just genuinely have fun with this book. But I love a good hard death spiral, I love a willingness to go down in flames if it means accomplishing what you want, this character hits so many of my buttons, but it's all left so mysterious to us. He's dead by the time the book begins. We get a little backstory from his notes, but those are scattered, and there isn't much depth. If not for him, Wei Wuxian wouldn't be here, and... despite spectacularly flaming out of existence, even if news spreading about it was delayed, nobody gives his death more than a *shrug*

So yes, I am fascinated by whatever scraps of information we can get about him, he's a character I would write again in a heartbeat if I had a good idea for it, and he's absolutely my poor little meow meow.

(honorable mention to jiaojiao for being much more obscure than mxy, but I am delighted by her au potential much more than I am by her role in the canonical story)

horse plinko (character I would torment for fun, for whatever reason)

.......Jiang Cheng. Look. He just. He's a receptacle for all intense and negative emotions. He's really good at aching and suffering. I can appreciate it when a character soaks up damage and laughs for anyone watching as he compartmentalizes it away, I can appreciate it when a character quietly absorbs hurt and refuses to show any of that vulnerability in front of any watching eyes. But what I live for is when a character is an emotional open wound, where when he's hurt, his first impulse is to lash out and hurt back. The intensity of the way he loves just makes the intensity of the way he suffers that much sweeter. The way he struggles to regulate his negative emotions is delicious. I crave his happiness more strongly than any other mxtx non-main character, but I cannot tell a lie, watching him ache and suffer is just beyond comparison

eeby deeby (character I would send to superhell)

Jin Guangshan is the easy answer, but it's not wrong. Wen Chao is also... tempting. Wen Ruohan and both of his boys are serious dicks, and their atrocities aren't even remotely justified. The cloud recesses and lotus pier? Both appalling, even without the other parts of their history. But... man, I'm not sure if I can articulate this right. But I don't feel the same kind of 'how dare you' anger when acts of unjustified cruelty are a political maneuver, or happen as things are escalating towards war.

I can conceptualize how it's easy to hurt a faceless Other, it's been baked into human history since forever. Jin Guangshan is cruel in ways that are personal and fall on a spectrum from 'deliberate' to 'careless.' The way he treats his illegitimate children is gross. The way he treated at least some of their mothers is gross. He has the power to indulge all his stupid selfish desires be less cruel about it, but instead we hear about him bitching about Meng Shi. The way he exploits Jin Guangyao is ugly, but there are all these little touches to it, like giving him the wrong generational character, and it's just infuriating. In some ways, I have to ask if I'm falling into a doublethink trap by holding him more responsible for trying to lean on young Jiang Cheng and assert his power, than I'm holding Wen Chao responsible for orphaning Jiang Cheng and decimating the sect in the first place. But... if I have to pick one, that's where I am, apparently :p

#spock replies #ask memes #the untamed #long post/

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neuxue · 3 years

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Hi....how are you? If you don't mind me asking, who is your favorite love interest in MXTX three novels (luo binghe, lan wanji, or hua cheng)? And why?

And who is your favorite protagonist in MXTX three novels (shen qingqiu, wei wuxian or xie lian)? And why?

Sorry if you've answered this question before....

I absolutely do not mind you asking; I will usually take just about any excuse to go on about stories/characters I enjoy, much as the fact that it’s taken me several weeks to respond to this may suggest otherwise.

So! Without further ado!

I can only answer for TGCF and CQL(/8 chapters of MDZS) but:

Favourite love interest: Hua Cheng

I love Lan Wangji, I really do, but Hua Cheng just hits so many buttons for me and has made a strong case for himself among my overall fictional favourites, much less by any particular category. There’s the obvious, for me: extraordinary competence and a particular brand of arrogance to go with it but at the same time extreme self-loathing, moral neutrality, a past (and to a certain extent present) full of pain, absolutely out of fucks to give (except for the things about which he does care, greatly), the sarcasm, the Aesthetic... you know, all the things designed to make a character My Type.

But also it’s some of the specifics. The whole relationship he has with his own... existence in general and personality in particular. The way he very much does have a strong personality and character and place he occupies in the world, when you’re looking at him from an external perspective, but from his own perspective all of that is... ephemeral, changeable, transient, bearing no value in and of itself except for how it can be shaped. That’s a hard thing to pull off even just from a technical/storytelling perspective - a character who treats their own personality as an extremely secondary afterthought, but who still has enough personality and presence to carry a story - but it’s also just. Man. There’s... probably an entire essay I could write here on the interplay between competence/capability/versatility and the tendency to then define yourself by what you think you’re supposed to be for whatever reason, and within that having to figure out who you actually are or want to be.

And then, the way the story isn’t about him having to change. Yes, there’s growth and self-recognition and coming to know as a person and equal the one he looked to as a god, but. Here is a largely morally-neutral character, perceived by most of his world as a villain, whose story isn’t about needing to be redeemed, or soften his sharper edges, or fundamentally change who he is - instead, it’s a character who goes into the story ready to change literally everything about himself to suit another, and whose story is instead more about accepting himself as he is. It’s about recognising what that self means, and the fact that he can be and is loved not for what he could be or what someone thinks he should be, but just... himself: ghost king and moral neutrality and sharp edges and oddities and all. It’s... I just feel like in so many stories it’d be about fixing him, or showing him another path, or whatever else, and instead it’s saying ‘no, you don’t have to change who you are, you just have to see it’.

I’m not sure I articulated that last bit very well but it really does just hit me like a metric tonne of bricks every time I think about it. What matters is you, and not the state of you, I just! Scream! A lot!

Favourite protagonist: impossible tie between Xie Lian and Wei Wuxian

I really, truly, genuinely cannot choose between these two. I think perhaps what it comes down to is that we’re seeing them at different points in their own journeys. Yes, we see the absolute low point for both of them (and in each case it’s a favourite moment), and that’s a large part of the appeal - that, and the immediate aftermath, and the way they react to (and mask, and deflect, and hide) pain, the way they dismiss their own hurt and accept so much hatred or ridicule as no more than their due...

But then beyond that, Wei Wuxian’s story picks up... later for the rest of the world but not much later for him, whereas we pick up with Xie Lian eight centuries later. And we see almost none of that interim time except in offhand comments (ow) and whatever you can piece together from fragments dropped by other characters or implied by other events.

And so where Wei Wuxian’s present-day story is a little more about a second chance and loose ends and consequences and finding a way to move on and all the ways the past clings to the present, Xie Lian is more... ‘settled’ isn’t the word I want, because when we meet him his life is about to be upended again, but with him we get perhaps a more unusual story in some ways in that he’s had some of that interim time, and while his coping mechanisms and how he views himself may not always be healthy, they’ve had a long time to develop. So we’re seeing a kind of... what happens when, after accepting your place in the world as an immortal drifter and laughingstock, after watching the people you loved leave or die or fade or pass beyond your reach, after learning to smile through anything and accept pain, something comes along and shakes that quiet, someone comes along and sees you. It’s just... fascinating and lovely and very different in some ways to Wei Wuxian’s story (for all that in other ways it has certain parallels), and makes it hard for me to pick favourites.

#idek how much sense any of this makes but #i simply love them all very much #which in and of itself is unusual for me!#it's rare that i like a) a main pairing #b) both sides of a main pairing #and c) the protagonist(s)#all in the same story #much less in all of the above in two!#it's a delight #asks #thanad-zid #tgcf #the untamed #hua cheng #xie lian #wei wuxian

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jiangwanyinscatmom · 3 years

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[1/?] Sorry for venting. I just saw some bad takes that gave me a lot of feelings. Personally, JC stresses me out every time he comes on screen, but I don't mind it when JC fans say fan-typical things like how they like JC because he wears purple, or is grumpy, or they think he's hot, or that they ship x*ch*ng because the cql actors have nice jawlines. They're harmless, fun takes, and while I don't agree with some of them, I see where they're coming from

Hello there anon, vent away as that is what my blog is open for as I love/hate on Jiang Cheng as he is in the plot, as well as all of my beef with what has been done to him for the EN side of the fanbase! I am more than fine listening and engaging with the unsavory "unpopular" discussions of his canon behavior and this goes for anyone of course that needs an open play area. I'll try to engage with what you have sent point by point as succinctly as I can.

[2/?] (some of these are obviously crack, and I am a fan of a few problematic faves). But then there are stans that just have to put other characters down to make JC look good. Like, I think some fans take their freedom of interpretation for granted because most of these takes aren't even labeled 'headcanon,' 'ooc,' or 'crack' anymore. Stans feel that their interpretations are valid, and while they are, valid =/= canon, and they're treating these takes as canon, which becomes popular fanon.

I enjoy Jiang Cheng for what he is, however as I had said it took me another reread to get to my stance of him being the negative mirror to Lan Wangji's positive and my comfort with that for the story once I realized what purpose he served. He is only insofar tragic in regards to his circumstances, but it does not absolve him for what he is at his core (no pun, but I can make a very nice metaphor that even with a piece of Wei Wuxian in him he is still forever unable and unwilling to stand by him equally all while stagnating where as Lan Wangji is able to flourish, grow and mature with nothing of import left from Wei Wuxian in a technical sense). As for ships, I am a little dirty Xicheng whore for fun and can say there is a sense of entertainment for me making it work with two people where one is wildly ignorant and the other wildly rabid. But that is outside of what is established as canon in the work and I always try to keep the two strictly separate due to the skew fanon perpetuates.

3/?] And now, it's not clear what part of the fanon references canon JC or the canon events of mdzs. JC is an asshole; I don't like him as a person, but I do think that he's a complex character motivated by many issues (sup, YeeZY), which makes him fascinating to explore. Unfortunately, erasing his culpability also removes his agency. JC should be allowed to be an asshole character who makes his own decisions even if they're the wrong ones. He has made his own tragedy by constantly casting Wei Wuxian as the villain of his life.

Now thanks to you I will be using YeeZY to forever and now to acknowledge Madam Yu (this is your fault for the new tag). From a standing from storytelling I agree that he is complex in the Jianghu for MDZS. Where in the usual political intrigue of Wuxia, he would be the mustache twirling villain that is outright unforgivable in narration, it is by favor of Wei Wuxian's narration that has an early steeping of empathy for him. And he is not meant to be seen as ultimately sympathetic, the work builds up his hate against Wei Wuxian who tries to rationalize it all several times until he is finally unable to. Jiang Cheng is the antithesis to Lan Wangji and the false bait to get attached to in Wei Wuxian's first life. I will make the note their meeting in Yiling is lukewarm between both as they exchange nothing really in terms of conversation and all pleasantries are left in terms of Jiang Yanli for Wei Wuxian. By this point Wei Wuxian has already switched his yearnings of platonically wanting a part of Jiang Cheng's life, to subconscious romantic inclinations about Lan Wangji and the perceived loss of being in the other's life.

The very point of Jiang Cheng as the deconstruction, is that he has no passion in life despite his apparent exploits because he put a shadow to hang over himself as an excuse to say others think he is not good enough. He has no deeper motivations than pure selfishness by the end of the work and is pure frivolity that he has built up losing the meaning of his sect as a tradition. He had his agency (more than anyone I might add in the work due to his social position) that he used to build his reputation as a passive rich sect leader that has little to do with civilian problems.

4/?] And I think a JC, somehow, that realizes that he did something wrong and is working hard to change for the better and gain self-actualization to become that UWU best jiujiu the stans want him to be, who is ready to talk (not yell at) with WWX, apologize to him, and create a better, healthier relationship with him is a much more powerful reconciliation and happy ending than 'everyone is wrong and mean and they all apologize to JC, which magically gets rid of all his issues'.

He is forced out of culpability in reconciliation because simply put, his audience do not like the reality that relationships fray and dissolve with no further resolution other than we as adults both need to move on for safety and good health. It is not acceptable in real life and fiction is allowed to place that also in it's thematic relationships. He has a small, small spark of recognition at the end of the main story, however he himself seems to choose to ignore it, as change is hard and he has never taken to that well as was foreshadowed with his dogs and the idea of sharing a space with Wei Wuxian. To write this is an awful lot of work into his psyche which is not a nice place, he is a terrible being and downplaying that to make a sugar sweet person does not work instantaneously. He is the one responsible for the entire fallout with Wei Wuxian and he hysterically realizes that even as he tries to continue to blame Wei Wuxian.

The issue that I have with his current stan culture, is that they already view him as something he is not. They play at bicycle with all of the other protagonists that have positive traits that they strip as they see fit; Good affirming loving to children adult Lan Wangji, Self-sacrificing ultimately did it all for love and care Wei Wuxian, Hard exterior but softened to who they consider an annoyance Wen Qing, Loyal as partners in their exploits on the field and always have each others back Wen Ning. They even take Jin Guangyao's persona of playing damsel and using that as a positive to soften up Jiang Cheng into something he has never been for anyone for ships.

[5/5] Also, making WWX/WN/LWJ apologize just makes them look better than JC. Like, stans supposedly love JC, so they ahouldn't be lazy and work hard to give him actual character development. Again, I'm sorry for spamming your ask. It just really baffles me about where they get these 'hot' takes (All I'm going to say is that JC was ungrateful, and WN had a reason verbally dismantle him).

They see this, but, they will spin it in any way to excuse Jiang Cheng due to the story itself showing that he was in the wrong to everyone he flung accusations at and his hate. No one but him is at fault for his spite as he had gotten his revenge on the ones that had ruined Lotus Pier and killed his parents. His own resentment pitted him against good and well meaning people that he refused to help as he mimicked his mother's words about raising their heads higher out of goodness instead of keeping low and staying self-centered. There is the underlying criticism of taking individual arrogance as self-care at the cost of others. Each point that Wen Ning makes is exactly what Jiang Cheng himself knows as he hated Wei Wuxian for being something he could not be or even wanted to be. Jiang Cheng wants kindness but does not understand that kindness to others needs to be selfless and accept the hurt that can come with that in life. He encompasses the fall from the path of buddhist lifestyle, "The Three Poisons" to Wangxian's "Without Envy" at the stories end.

[6/5] P.S. I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it. I think it would be interesting to see what force of nature would push him through a character development because throwing a therapist at him would result in a murder.

"I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it."

They do not think he has to work for it, they say his tragedy is enough, while heaping accusations against Wei Wuxian and saying his own are not enough to absolve him. Something Wei Wuxian has never denied and told all present they are allowed to forever hate him for what he had done in the past, but that they need to find a way to live in a life that is always moving on. He learned that grudges do nothing once they are absolved and it leaves you with hate with nothing else to do with it once that object is gone. In terms of reconciliation, I do not ever think that either want anything other than a distant peaceful out of each other's life set up. Jiang Cheng does not need Wei Wuxian in his life to be satisfied and never has since he used him as the handicap to hide behind to stay angry and miserable. Being without that fallback opens the world far more for him to change than him ever interacting like an old friend with Wei Wuxian ever again, if he ever had the guts to do that.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #yeah I am using that tag block me if it upsets you #pokes this sorry for the length I tried #listen... only i am his trash queen

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murfeelee · 3 years

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CQL/MDZS INSP - Gusu Arc Pt2c: The Gift

CAPTIONS AS TEXT

- - - Wei WuXian: Lan Zhan, I’m back! Did you miss me? Without me copying texts for these past few days? Lan WangJi: .... - WWX: Don’t be so scary! I’m here to apologize, by giving you a present! LWJ: No. WWX: Are you sure~~~? LWJ: ??? - WWX: Lan Zhan, Lan Zhan! How do you like my gift? I found one last night. Today, I caught another to keep it company! - WWX: What do you think? Am I sincere enough? I spent half a day catching it. Do you want them or not? LWJ: ... - WWX: Fine, I'll give them to someone else then. LWJ: To whom? WWX: Whoever is good at roasting rabbits! My food hasn't had much flavor lately. LWJ: Killing is forbidden in Cloud Recesses. It is the third rule on the Wall of Rules. - WWX: Fine, I’ll go down the mountain, kill it outside, and then bring it back to roast it. You don't want them anyway, why do you care? - LWJ: .... I'll take them. - WWX: NOW you want them?! Look at you—you’re always like this. Never speaking from your heart!

-- Mo Dao Zu Shi: Novel, Chapter 18 | Dongua/anime S01E05

MY THOUGHTS (rant alert)

IMO, CQL/The Untamed tv show adaptation ruined the whole significance of Lan WangJi’s rabbits and his later obsession with them.

I’ve already talked about the cultural significance of rabbits in ancient China, as a symbol of homosexual love. In MDZS, there are several scenes where the interactions between the 2 rabbits (who are both male) directly represent the relationship between WangXian.

In the original MDZS novel, Wei WuXian gave LWJ the rabbits as a peace offering, which marked the transition to a gradual ceasefire and ending of hostilities between WangXian as rival classmates/disciples.

The rabbits fight, but eventually end up horsing around and dry-humping each other, which scandalizes sheltered/repressed LWJ. He calls them obscene/filthy (depending on translations), but still decides to keep them--despite it breaking the rule that no pets are allowed in Cloud Recesses.

WWX only gave LWJ 2 male rabbits, but 16 years later, LWJ has an entire colony, all descended from the first 2--and we learn that Lan Xichen and Lan Sizhui have been helping him collect, breed & care for them all these years.

With the bunnies, we finally see the chronically stoic LWJ openly express interest/fondness for something, AND it’s directly related to WWX, and something WWX GAVE him, as an apology for being such a menace LWJ not only accepted the rabbits, but he accepted WWX’s APOLOGY, AND accepted WWX as a person: obscene and filthy and a rule breaker, but one LWJ not-so-secretly liked anyway.

It’s been well-documented how much The Untamed had to modify aspects of WangXian in order to slip past China’s anti-LGBT+ censorship bans, but IMO there was ZERO reason to get rid of the scene where WWX gifted the bunnies to LWJ. The donghua/anime is also under censorship, and THEY included it--though admittedly, they snuck the scene in the post-credits, so it’s missable, unless you watch the very end of S01E05.

However, what The Untamed did instead was completely unnecessary!

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought the random AF rabbits wearing the GusuLan headbands and living in the Ice Cave for hundreds of years was EFFING DUMB, and that the exposition dump Lan Yi gave was convoluted AF.

Where did these Ice Rabbits even come from? (Are they divine? Lan Yi’s are clearly ice-proof and immortal-ish and don’t need food, but we see Lan WangJi’s munching on grass, so....? I assume these are the same ones LWJ raises 16 years later, but...how????)

Yes, the rabbits wearing the Lan headbands gave WangXian the idea to share LWJ’s headband to get past the magic barrier, which gave the fandom its iconic “WangXian wedding scene Pt1,“ cuz the headband is sacred to family & S/Os, but come the heck on.

None of that in the Ice Cave was canonical to the MDZS source material, it was just made up for the show. They integrated it fairly well, but IMO they could’ve easily had WWX go back in the cave and steal the rabbits and give them to LWJ, but we never see the cave again, or get any explanation for LWJ’s colony 16 years later (IIRC). Rather than LWJ liking rabbits as a not-so-subtle clue to him being gay and them being a present FOR him from the guy he was developing feelings for, The Untamed merely used rabbits to represent what WangXian experienced in the Ice Cave.

I’m sorry, but as popular as the headband-sharing scene is in the fandom, IMO I don’t think the Ice Cave as a whole was that big a deal, especially not compared to the way more impactful cave WangXian was in later--Xuanwu’s.

By the show’s logic, why weren’t tortoises used as a symbol for them? They were in the Ice Cave together for a few hours tops. But they were trapped alone together in Xuanwu’s Tortoise’s Cave for a WEEK, and had to rely on each other to LITERALLY survive.

Eff those random AF bunnies--it was because of the tortoise that WWX found the Yin Iron and that LWJ sang his secret WangXian song to WWX and opened up to WWX and openly wept in front of him! That was HUGE! So The Untamed’s effort to push the rabbits as the symbol of WangXian’s love IMO lost a bit of its effectiveness, when they removed the original context & didn’t adequately supplement it.

TL;DR, The Untamed did the symbolism of the rabbits a disservice, and the Ice Cave was not that impactful of an addition to the story. The real resonance they had with LWJ is lost in the tv show, in favor of the rabbits barely driving contrived plot exposition with Lan Yi and the Yin Iron/Stygian Tiger Seal, which The Untamed also effed around with in ways I didn’t like--

Listen, I’ve said before that I think the donghua/anime is a much better adaptation of MDZS. I like The Untamed for its aesthetics, and for all the lovely things it gave us, but it took serious liberties with the source material. (And don’t get me started on that ending! U_U)

#sims 3 the untamed #the untamed #sims 3 wangxian #wangxian #mo dao zu shi #sims 3 mdzs #sims 3 anime #sims 3 asian #Sims 3 pets #RANT ALERT #sims 3 LGBT #sims 3 gameplay

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watch-grok-brainrot · 4 years

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Terms of Endearment in CQL and Wuxia

Ope. My childhood obsession with wuxia got called out by @hunxi-guilai’s post here

Mostly I think of terms of endearment being name conjugations. CQL/MDZS covers most of the types.

Let’s go over a brief overview of what we do see in CQL/MDZS:

A + name: e.g A-xian, A-cheng, A-yuan. It’s not something that’s used commonly in my family, but I see it all the time. It’s not really romantic, IMO. I can’t think of an example where this is used romantically in the Jin Yong novels i’ve read… but it’s been about 7 years since i last reread one?

Duplicating a character of the name: e.g. Xianxian (sometimes jyl calls wwx this). It’s a diminutive and not really romantic. This was used with my name when I was a kid. Like if LWJ were in a less formal family, i could see LXC calling him Zhanzhan. Gosh, that’s really cute. OMG. I can suddenly see his mom calling him that. Excuse me as I go freak out in a corner…

Name + sibling term (almost always 哥ge/ 妹mei): e.g. Lan-er-gege. In 射雕, Huang Rong calls Guo Jing “Jing-gege”. In 倚天屠龙 Zhang Wuji was told to call Zhao Min “Min-mei”. Both cases, you add a sibling term to make you seem closer to the other person. (note: ge -- older brother, di -- younger brother, jie -- older sister, mei-- younger sister. Usually the female is younger so you see ge and mei more than you see other options. In fact, i can’t think of an example where ge and mei aren’t used...)

Things not used in CQL:

Name + 儿/er: So this is the one I don’t see in QCL/MDZS that I see a lot in wuxia. So Guo Jing calls Huang Rong “Rong-er”. In 神雕侠侣, XiaoLongNv calls Yang Guo “Guo-er” and later tells him to call her “Long-er”. 儿/er can be translated as child or son or youth. In this case, it’s definitely a diminutive suffix.

Last name/descriptor + Gu/姑 and + Lang/郎: 姑, kinda short for guniang, and 郎 (man, i refer you to my post about the Wuji refrain) can be used as suffixes. Namely in 天龙八部 a pair calls each other 梦姑and 梦郎 (dream-gu and dream-lang). In 天龙八部, another character is referred to by a love interest by Last name + lang. Lang is more common than gu (IMO because 姑姑 means aunt [father’s sister, doesn’t matter relative age] so it feels weird… ). Also, Xie Lian calls Hua Cheng 三郎 the same way WWX calls LWJ 蓝二哥哥.

Hanzi 汉子 and Laopo 老婆: Hanzi is something you would call a dude (doesn’t have to be a term of endearment but can be used as such) and Laopo is a common term for wife (literally old lady/woman).

And then there’s the couple from 射雕 who stole and studied a forbidden skill that drove them mad. They mostly called each other ZeiHanzi and ZeiPoniang. Zei meaning thief and Poniang (婆娘) being a combination of Laopo and Guniang and a fairly crude way of saying Laopo.

Sometimes, in Wuxia, if people are in the same sect and end up in a relationship, they’ll continue calling each other by Shimei/Shige/Shidi/Shijie. In some ways that relationship is very intimate anyway so why bother changing what you call each other? It definitely threw me for a loop on how WWX and JYL interacted at first since she called him something that didn’t seem like she was in love with him and he called her something that could be either. o.O

Anyway, bonus note from reading too much Wuxia:

In addition to ways to seem closer when you address SOs, there are also terms used to be polite to people outside of your family by verbally undervaluing the wife. It’s not unlike Wei Wuxian referring to himself as Wei Mou [anonymous person with the last name of Wei].

So sometimes you’ll be reading wuxia and a husband will refer to his wife as 内人 (nei ren/ person inside [the house])，拙荆 (zhuo jing / clumsy vitex)，or 贱内 (jian nei/ cheap or lowly [person] inside [the house]). Sometimes you’ll see other combinations (but never 贱人 [jian ren] because it means slut).

On the flip side, 外子 (wai zi/person on the outside [of the house]) and 拙夫 (zhuo fu/clumsy husband) are ways women could refer to her husband in a similar fashion. I see the latter more than I see the former.

#language #i got tagged #chinese things #wuxia things #cql #mdzs #the untamed #language explained #chinese #wuxia #terms of endearment #definitely googled jin yong novels to remind myself of things #ope

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

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MDZS

Nie//lan analysis: started life as a ship bingo, and it still has the ship bingo picture on top; in actual fact it's about 8k of analysis of NMJ and LXC's relationship in the novel, mostly from the perspective of how LXC feels about NMJ (though that figure includes some perhaps too-copious direct quotation). Be warned that I am not very gentle not only on the idea of the ship in a romantic sense, but also on certain ideas of their friendship. I would rephrase some things now, and add more details, but broadly I stand by this.

-Followup #1: I take a close look at the scene in chapter 46 where LXC meets NMJ's corpse and discusses the possibility of JGY's guilt with Wang//xian in order to justify my claim that LXC's reactions in this section are more about his suspicion that JGY killed NMJ rather than his grief for NMJ.

-Followup #2: In the first part, I argue that I am not in fact relying on too-precise words in translation, and argue against the idea that LXC and JGY understand their relationship in terms of the broader relationship with NMJ. In a brief follow-up, I discuss LXC's use of san-di vs A-Yao in support of my point.

NMJ and JGY's first meeting: A brief analysis of NMJ and MY's first meeting, mostly to argue that while MY is absolutely moved by NMJ's intervention on his behalf, he is also well aware of the faults NMJ displays in that intervention, and is not stunned by hero worship.

JGY changed the music after the stairs: in which I discuss the idea that JGY changed the music before NMJ attacked him on the stairs rather than after, and come down quite firmly on the side that he changed it after, including addressing various objections I have seen.

CQL

Empathy differences: this is actually on my AO3, not tumblr, but I'm proud of it. There are differences between the scenes we see first outside of Empathy and then inside of it; the most reasonable conclusion is I think that NMJ's Empathy memories, being memories, are unreliable and distorted. Unfortunately, without awareness of the differences, they are often taken as reliable information about JGY's character. Some of these differences are obvious; some are rather more subtle. To show the differences, for each Empathy scene that has an equivalent scene outside Empathy, I cropped the footage from both versions of the scene, lining them up where they are identical, letting them play next to each other where they differ—running at 80% speed, so everything's easier to catch. I also trasncribed the Chinese dialogue, and under each video I created a table indicating where they matched, where they differed completely, and where they differed subtly, bolding the differences to make them clear. Note that while this is comparing the Chinese dialogue, this dialogue is always accompanied by the YouTube subs English translation. Unfortunately the videos in these are completely silent; I haven't done a similar comparison of the audio, though it would probably be interesting.

There are three chapters: Episode 10, Episode 22, and Episode 23. Note that each chapter has a link to download the videos for that chapter (at 80% or at full speed) as a zip file, and the last chapter also has a link to download all the videos.

-Discussion: I watched the above videos and jotted down some thoughts on the differences as I went.

LXC knows JGY is killing those Wen in episode 23: In episode 23, there's a scene right after Sunshot where JGS, NMJ, and LXC are discussing what to do with the Wen remnants, and JGY comes in with some of those remnants behind him. It ends with JGY ordering them killed after everyone has left. An unfortunately common interpretation of this scene involves LXC not knowing that that's what JGY was going to do; I argue that this is completely wrong, and that the only thing that suggests this at all is the framing, as opposed to, for example, the dialogue where LXC explicitly okays killing some Wen. One of my weaker posts on the whole—in particular, madtom made the excellent point that I was conflating "Zixun killing certain Wen is covered under the agreement between JGS, NMJ, and LXC" with "Zixun has permission to kill the specific Wen we see him killing"—but I absolutely stand by the overall point. I also discuss the "am I the evil exchange", which I think is also frequently misinterpreted, perhaps due to a reluctance to fully acknowledge NMJ's antipathy towards the Wen. For reference: a transcript and summary of the discussion between JGS, NMJ, LXC, and JGY about what to do with the Wen remnants; a transcript of the Am I the evil exchange, including at the end the Viki subs for a key moment in that exchange as I think they are rather clearer than the YouTube subs.

Fatal//Journey

My disagreements with Fatal//Journey: A post in four parts, though not of equal length. (five if you count the intro). In essence, I go over claims I think FJ is making about various things and characters and provide evidence for each claim that FJ is making that claim and that MDZS and to a lesser extent CQL either fail to support this claim or more frequently outright contradict it; at the end I have a miscellaneous section with some miscellaneous thoughts, and a discussion of the effects FJ can have on interpretations of the characters. Introduction, where I explain what I am doing, disclaim my biases, and list the claims I will argue FJ makes; Part One, where I discuss the claims FJ makes about the Song of Clarity, the Song of Turmoil, and the Nie clan; Part Two, where I discuss the claims FJ makes about NMJ and NHS; Part Three, where I discuss the claims FJ makes about JGY; and Part Four, where I discuss the effects of the changes FJ makes on our interpretations of the characters and include some final miscellaneous thoughts. Note that every post in there links to every other post, in addition to Next and Previous links at the bottom, so navigation should be straightforward.

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melatovnik · 3 years

Note

ok ur top faves wangxian fics go

hey yati! 🥰️

alright, so first things first, here’s a big wangxian fic rec list i made a while ago, if you wanna check that one out too! consider the list below part 2. these are all my faves so far since my last rec list (as you'll quickly see, i have a LOT of faves).

and just a fyi/psa/disclaimer for anyone reading this: some of these fics have disturbing themes and/or kinky/freaky sex! make sure to check the authors’ tags and notes before reading. also, much like my first rec list, there’s going to be a mix of mdzs and cql canon, characterizations, dynamics, etc., so bear that in mind.

....ok GO

live from new york by varnes | rated E | 87K words | THE snl au fic!!!! yes, by snl i mean saturday night live. this is perhaps the best and funniest story i've ever read, period. varnes is a fucking genius. read this fic.

Wei Ying lets out a long, ugly groan. “I am fine, Lan Zhan. Everybody is overreacting, it’s so embarrassing for all of you.”

“You had undiagnosed pneumonia, which you walked around with for weeks until you passed out during dress,” Lan Wangji corrects him. “It got a big laugh, until everyone thought you were dead.”

He keeps his voice even and does not tell Wei Ying that it had been Lan Wangji who caught him, who called the ambulance, and who rode with him to the hospital, where he was yelled at by nurses who wanted to know why he hadn’t noticed that Wei Ying couldn’t stop shivering or string proper sentences together.

“Rumors of my demise have been vastly overstated,” Wei Ying says. “Anyway, I’m already feeling much better. Basically fine. Really almost completely back to normal, so stop babying me and tell me why the fuck you let your stupid brother hire the worst man in the world to host our show.”

OR: the one where they all work at SNL, Yanli's ex-boyfriend is hosting, and that's just the beginning of everybody's problems.

swiss cheese theory by varnes | rated M | 19K words | sequel to snl au fic!!!!!! another must-read.

The Swiss Cheese model of accident causation likens human system defences to a series of slices of randomly-holed Swiss Cheese arranged vertically and parallel to each other with gaps in-between each slice. Defences against failure are modelled as a series of barriers, represented as slices of the cheese. The holes in the cheese slices represent individual weaknesses in individual parts of the system. The system as a whole produces failures when holes in all of the slices momentarily align, permitting "a trajectory of accident opportunity," so that a hazard passes through holes in all of the defences, leading to an accident.

OR: Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian go to the courthouse.

OR: “Sweethearts,” the city clerk had said, very gently, “you’re already married.”

best friends forever by varnes | rated T | 17K words | alright, so like, strictly speaking, wangxian isn't the focus of this fic, BUT. this fic is so good!! it is seriously so good, and it made me fall in love with jin ling/lan jingyi. also, it's varnes, so read it!

It happened like this: Jin Ling was a sect leader now, which was, and Jingyi really meant this, fucking hilarious. There were few things funnier, in his honest opinion.

Because he was young, and inexperienced, and also — it had to be said — a real shithead, there was apparently some belief amongst his advisors that the best way forward, to promote the picture of a stable, mature sect leader who absolutely did not cry at the drop of a hat, was for Jin Ling to get married.

OR: Jin Ling and Jingyi get engaged.

Things spiral from there.

For a Good Time, Call by ScarlettStorm | rated E | 171K words

The picture is of Wei Ying, that much is clear. It’s of a lot more of Wei Ying than Lan Zhan is used to seeing. He supposes that, technically, Wei Ying is dressed. It’s a bare technicality, since one of Wei Ying’s hands has rucked up his black tank top practically to his collarbone, showing a long expanse of abdomen and one nipple. Sweat beads on his sternum, catching the light like jewels. His other hand is--Lan Zhan feels his eyes widen, as though unable to look away from a train wreck--on his hip, one thumb tugging down the waistband of a pair of red briefs. Wei Ying is biting his lower lip and looking directly into the camera, sultry, his eyes dark and inviting. His erection is obvious, outlined against the red of the briefs and framed carefully with the hand on his hip. Lan Zhan’s brain goes wildly, screamingly blank.

Or: Lan Zhan accidentally finds his best friend's OnlyFans account and has an ongoing emotional crisis.

love, in fire and blood by cicer | rated E | 360K words | i actually haven't finished this one since i was reading it when it was a WIP, i need to reread it and catch up fjdskl;fjsd, but i love it very much!!!!!! oh my god he wanted to look nice for his husband..... 🙃 [screams with mouth closed]

"You want Wen Ruohan dead," the Patriarch continued idly. "You want his corpse puppets eliminated. You want his halls burned to the ground and his soldiers disemboweled and begging for mercy. Have I about covered it?"

He gave another knife-edged smile.

"But what will you give me in return?"

"We would be willing to offer quite a bit in return for Wen Ruohan's defeat," Lan Xichen admitted. "But I'm afraid we don't know what an immortal such as yourself desires. Please advise us."

The Patriarch waved at hand at the front of the tent. "I want Second Young Master Lan."

(In which the Sunshot Campaign ends through an arranged marriage to the Yiling Patriarch, and Lan Wangji suffers the mortifying ordeal of falling in love with his own husband.)

how to fall in love with a catfish: a guide by wei wuxian (disaster rat) by bwyn & Yuisaki | rated T | 55K words

A new plan hatches in Wei Wuxian’s head. If this nocturnal, bottom-feeding, slimy, invasive mudcat posing as a beautiful actor thinks he can sway Wei Wuxian with animal pictures and a sob story and an unbelievably stilted way of texting with still no dick pictures in the first five minutes of conversation, he has another thing coming. Wei Wuxian’s got it, alright, he has this in the fucking bag.

Wei Wuxian plots to expose a catfish using strategic memes and turtle pictures while wiggling his way out of family dinner. Lan Wangji just wants companions.

there’s no promised goodbye here by Yuisaki | rated T | 54K words

Jiang Cheng stares at him. “Didn’t you say you broke up five months ago?”

“Yeah.”

“So why do you have a picture of you two kissing taped to your fridge?”

“Because we’re too broke for magnets,” Wei Wuxian explains, then considers that statement. “Well, I’m too broke for magnets. Lan Zhan probably refuses to buy them because he’s trying to have lofty ideas about the moral failings of materialism.”

Wei Wuxian navigates the trials of living with his ex-boyfriend in apartment 1301.

paint smears on sunny days by SnowshadowAO3 | rated E | 54K words

To say that he runs to his car would be incorrect, as he is a Lan, and running is both undignified and unnecessary unless in immediate danger. Nor does he slam his key into the ignition, or aggressively swerve around the cars on the freeway, or have a mild panic attack at the fact he is picking A-Yuan up late from school for the first time ever.

He comes close, though.

By the time he arrives, it’s 4:35PM, and he has imagined about fifty different worse-case scenarios. The door is partly open when he gets to it, a messy label of 104B—Art Room scrawled with chalk on a placard next to the faded wood. As he opens it fully, he expects to see a wailing, terrified child, or perhaps a scene of utter misery and betrayal.

What he finds is his son, hands covered in paint, being sung to by a beautiful, dark-haired stranger.

“Ducks live in the pond, yellow ducks, happy ducks!”

Lan Wangji stops in his tracks.

(Or: Falling in love with your son’s art teacher, in five parts)

a paper friend by sunzu | rated G | 5K words

Lan Wangji finds a paperman far from its body and helps get it home.

-Or-

Lan Wangji unknowingly meets Wei Wuxian for the first time.

All Caught Up by brooklinegirl | rated E | 37K words

"Betrothed," Wei Ying says indignantly.

Lan Wangji can't stop his gaze from darting up to him. Wei Ying understands. Wei Ying is looking at him, wide-eyed and upset on his behalf.

"And you don't even like her," Wei Ying says.

"I don't even know her," Lan Wangji says quietly.

"But even if you did—" Wei Ying starts.

"I wouldn't want this," Lan Wangji finishes.

Lead Me On Through by mrsronweasley | rated E | 55K words | oh look another canon-era practice kissing fic fjdskfl;ds

"Who do you think your betrothed is?" Wei Wuxian asks, sprawling out in front of Lan Zhan and enjoying the prim thinning of his lips at the question. He shouldn't be sprawling—they're in the library, for one, and Lan Zhan is studying, for another—but he can't help himself. Wei Wuxian is a sprawler.

"I do not believe this to be of importance," Lan Zhan responds, without turning his gaze away from his book.

"What!" Wei Wuxian sits up. "How can you say that? Of course it's important! This is the person you'll be with for the rest of your life, Lan Zhan."

I Started From the Bottom/And Now I'm Rich by x_los | rated E | 58K words | ok so i know that in my spiel above i said to mind the tags, etc., but actually pay no mind to the first two relationship tags for this fic. i PROMISE that this isn't that sort of dead dove fic fjdksl;fjs;lifkj. i. it. it's wangxian. don't sweat it. don't even trip. just—this fic fucking rules. it's completely insane and it slaps. wei ying is a girlboss and a bitch and i like her So Much

“First, you get the money. Then you get the power, respect - hos come last.”

Wen Qing traps Wei Wuxian in the Demon Slaughtering Cave, but Wei Wuxian isn’t interested in being the beneficiary of the Wen Remnants’ noble sacrifice. His efforts to free himself accidentally send him back to the beginning of the Sunshot Campaign. Coreless but armed with demonic cultivation, knowledge of the future and his wits, Wei Wuxian takes advantage of this opportunity to come out on top of both the war and its aftermath—before either has a chance to happen—by marrying and swiftly burying the cultivation world’s worst men.

Lan Wangji is confused, hurt, and uncomfortably aroused by Wei Wuxian’s improbably elaborate series of Sect-themed bridal negligees.

rather cruelly used and rather reserved by x_los | rated M | 14K words

In the month between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian leaving Yi City and their attending the cultivation conference in Lanling, Wei Wuxian discovers a locked room in the Jingshi. It is a mystery that clever and curious Wei Wuxian is doing everything in his power to avoid solving.

But the rose was awake all night for your sake/Knowing your promise to me by x_los | rated E | 8K words | resentment tenties~

The resentful energy occupying Wei Wuxian's body like an enemy army is very interested in giving him Lan Wangji, tied up with a bow.

Wei Wuxian is hoping that Lan Wangji (who is far too noble and very keen to save Wei Wuxian's misguided soul) doesn't find out about any aspect of that.

Mo Money, Mo Problems by x_los | rated M | 3K words

After the Mo family perishes in distressing and mysterious circumstances, Wei Wuxian, still reeling from his reincarnation, tries to dip back into their manor for a little travelling money. (Forward planning! What a concept!) Lan Wangji catches him immediately, and is highly unimpressed (read: furious) with Wei Wuxian’s decision to run away from him in the first place.

Standing Engagement by x_los | rated M | 18K words

Lan Wangji believes he and Wei Wuxian are essentially engaged. While they search for his missing betrothed, he accidentally reveals as much to Jiang Wanyin. Now everyone in the cultivation world knows about the imminent marriage, except for Wei Wuxian himself.

Coming Back to Yourself by acernor | rated E | 22K words | genital swapping for fun and nonprofit!

Lan Wangji gets cursed with a ~woman's body~ and has to orgasm to go back. Since he's 1) a virgin 2) super repressed and 3) SUPER gay, he has no idea what to do.

If only he had a super nosy friend who's read lots of erotic novels who could help him figure out what to do... hm...

Save a Sword by etymologyplayground | rated E | 5K words | a fic inspired by the above fic!

Lan WangJi presses a kiss into his throat, which draws a shivering whine from him. "Like this," he agrees, his voice so low. Then he slides one warm elegant hand down Wei WuXian's chest to his belly, and then to his — to his —

fan ending for acernor's fabulous masterpiece "coming back to yourself" because i'm a huge goofball and that fic fucks

Our Eyes on the Road by etymologyplayground | rated E | 23K words | brought to you by lore (the author) and Orville Peck's hit song Drive Me, Crazy

Lan Zhan is silent for a long moment, and the van's speakers quietly pipe the second song on the album into the empty space between them. Then Lan Zhan shifts his hand a little on Wei Ying's leg, presses his fingers once into the meat of his thigh. "Alright," he says.

"Alright," Wei Ying echoes in a wheeze.

"Is that better?" Lan Zhan checks, because he is a good boy. Then he spreads his fingers out a little wider, because he is evil and must be stopped.

Lan Zhan is driving to Chicago. Wei Ying tags along.

Worship you till morning comes by feyburner | rated E | 7K words

A meet-cute, a first date, a sleepover.

Let's take a ride round the curves of desire by feyburner | rated E | 6K words | yeah........... uhh, yeah.

Wei Ying was sprawled on the floor in front of the oscillating fan when Lan Zhan got home from work.

The Roots Grow Riotous by hansbekhart | rated E | 105K words | a beautifully crafted, emotionally harrowing fic. i should warn you (since it's not quite tagged as such) that while wangxian is endgame, the overall story doesn't have the sort of happily-ever-after ending you might expect. i’ve seen it described as open-ended but hopeful and cathartic, which i find to be a pretty accurate assessment

Sometimes Lan Zhan doesn’t work through lunch. Sometimes he makes conversation with coworkers in the halls. Sometimes he goes home instead of spending the last hour trawling through Grindr. But mostly, that’s exactly what he does. The sameness is comforting. His life spools out in easily measured increments: capsule collections, yards of hand dyed textiles, ninety day lead times, sell through figures, cost of goods sold.

Every date in manufacturing can be calculated backwards and forward from a single horizon point: the date that the goods must arrive into the country where they'll be sold. Other than that, nothing else really matters.

总有一天; a place to hide (can’t find one near) by yiqie | rated E | 76K words | i can't recall a fic ever affecting me as much as this one did. one of the best stories i've ever read. so, so, so crushingly beautiful. it's viscerally distressing/upsetting at times, especially at the start, so please heed the tags and author's note (they provide a way to skip the beginning scene if needed)!

That’s just the thing, isn’t it? Wei Ying feels nothing. He doesn’t feel anything, and this emptiness should scare him. He knows he should be scared. He wants to be scared. He isn’t. Fear itself is never scary; fear is just a response. It means that your body wants you alive. It’s the absence of terror that scares him.

请兔子吃晚饭; treating a bunny to dinner by yiqie | rated T | 3K words | read this one to recover from the above fic

It’s not really about the food. Being able to share it in the same space is its own kind of magic.

爱不释手; never let me go by yiqie | rated E | 69K words | and then read this one to feel harrowed again, this time in canon-verse!

Wei Wuxian has certainly hoped so ardently in his two lifetimes, for so many different things, in so many different ways, that he could have summoned the demon to his front door with his bare hands. His eyes wander to Lan Zhan, settle on the back of his head, the blue-black curtain of his hair. Oh, how he has hoped.

在此恭迎夷陵老祖; to yiling laozu, the great and venerable by yiqie | rated M | 7K words | read this one to recover from the above fic (this time in canon-verse)

“You don’t know? In Yiling, there’s a tree at the edge of town, one that stands at the fringes of where the city ends and the Burial Mounds begin, called the Lover’s Tree. They say if you write a letter and nail it to its branches, Yiling Laozu will receive it, and he’ll reply.”

你的阳光下; wanna hide in your light by yiqie | rated T | 2K words | :')

Lan Zhan shuts off the water before it can start getting cold, because Wei Ying still needs to take one. Any other day, Wei Ying would have slunk in, pretending to be annoyed that Lan Zhan started without him, and neither of them would have want for hot water, but Wei Ying is still asleep.

From my heart's ground. by orange_crushed | rated E | 38K words | get (orange) CRUSHED!!!!!!!

After a while he can feel a palm against his face, gentle fingers soft and soothing. It’s not real, not exactly: he can tell the difference between a ghost’s touch and a living person’s, between a spirit-vision and an overactive imagination. His education has been thorough. But the beating has also been thorough, so for now he forgets what he knows and leans into it, into the hand cupping his cheek. It’s soft and dry as those forgotten petals, as the touch of a pillow. He can smell wildflowers, can taste blood and dirt. My baby, his mother says, and he closes his eyes. My treasure. He barely remembers the sound of her voice, but the feeling of it is just the same. Just the same as ever.

[In which Lan Wangji loses almost everything, plants a garden, and grows a second chance.]

Pentimento. by orange_crushed | rated E | 73K words | this fic briefly gave me a serious case of career envy :/ ......but seriously, this is an absolute must-read!!!

When Wangji was eighteen he’d walked into the first class of his fall semester painting module and there’d been a boy in a hilariously ugly floppy knit hat sitting cross-legged on the floor at the front of the room. He’d had a sheet of canvas paper taped to his board and his board clamped between his legs and a tackle box of brushes and tubes—a real fishing tackle box, with a fish-shaped logo on it that said BASS, not one of the nice art supply storage boxes they sold in the campus bookstore, like the one Wangji was carrying—open beside him. Everyone else had settled into the rows of stools and easels, but that boy had stayed on the floor for the whole two hour and thirty minute studio. Wangji had looked at him and thought, that idiot’s back is going to hurt.

[Former best friends Lan Wangji, paintings conservator, and Wei Wuxian, art handler, meet again and realize... neither of them were actually in unrequited love.]

Many happy returns. by orange_crushed | rated E | 25K words

His fingers are still clasped between Wangji's. In the mirror Wangji watches him tuck his coat between his thighs so that he can fuss with the tucked-in hem of his shirt, tousle up the side of his hair, all one-handed. "I hope what I'm wearing is okay."

"It's good," Wangji says. "You look good."

"I guess I must," Wei Ying says, and then he smiles and bites his teeth into his bottom lip for a second, devastatingly, and before Wangji can drop dead the doors to the elevator slide open, and the hostess station appears.

[In which lonely businessman Lan Wangji meets the right wrong person and changes the course of his life.]

The dreamers. by orange_crushed | rated E | 17K words

“Stop mothering me,” Wei Ying protests. “Why don’t you ever listen?” He scowls at Wangji, but then the lure of the clean water is too much; he sits grumbling and strips off his vambraces and loosens the collar of his robes and wipes himself down in the steam. Wangji sits on a stool and watches him, and after a while Wei Ying slaps the rag into the bowl and glares back. “Are you going to sit and stare the whole time?” he demands. “You want to see me strip naked and give my filthy evil self a good scrubbing, huh?”

Yes, Wangji thinks.

[This is a story about a horrible war and a beautiful dream; about grabbing happiness where you can find it, and not letting go.]

mercy, tear it down. by orange_crushed | rated E | 31K words

“You want me to call you good?” Wangji says. “To make you feel good?” Wei Ying makes a wretched, soft, surprised sound in the back of his throat. “Then will you be good?”

“Uh,” Wei Ying says. His lashes flick down again, nervously. “Good how?”

Wangji hasn’t quite thought that far ahead.

Kingfisher Feathers by Anonymous | rated E | 83K words | WIP (7/10 chapters, last updated 4/13/21) | omg omegaverse!!!! @/ this anon author... keep up the great work! also i have feelings for u

With an almost trance-like detachment, Wei Wuxian touched his own neck, his fingers skimming over the fresh mark. The bite wound had stopped bleeding, although he had no doubts it would open again if agitated.

Bonded.

He was bonded for life.

"Shit," he whispered. He looked over at the sleeping form of Lan Wangji—the Second Prince of Gusu and, until his brother was found, the sole heir to the throne. "Oh, shit. Lan Qiren is going to kill me."

----------

Lan Wangji goes into a fevered rut and accidentally bonds with Wei Wuxian. When they next meet, he remembers none of it, and Wei Wuxian is determined to keep the bond a secret—even when he's sent to the Cloud Recesses to be a consort in Lan Wangji's harem.

(tl;dr concubine!wwx is already married to emperor!lwj, who has no idea. drama ensues.)

Pull out game weak by 74243 | rated E | 23K words | featuring the hottest meanest dom top lesbian lwj of your wildest dreams. i hope ao3 user 74243 is having an amazing day

Wei Ying swipes right.

Extra Time by Anonymous | rated E | 28K words | fic inspired by the above fic! seriously good

How Wei Ying learned to stop worrying and love the strap (an AU of 74243's Pull out game weak)

Superfan by 74243 | rated E | 19K words | ao3 user 74243 writing banger after banger as per usual

“I’m not going to apologize for my job,” Wei Ying said, “so if you want to give me some kind of lecture--”

“No,” Lan Zhan said. “You misunderstood. I am...” she paused, as if considering the best way to put it. “I’m a fan.”

Spit in my mouth, look in my eyes by 74243 | rated E | 7K works | i'm just going to list all of ao3 user 74243's fics, ok? that's what's gonna happen here

Wei Wuxian was a little surprised herself, although she felt bad for being surprised. Of course it didn’t really mean anything about you, how you presented, Wei Wuxian knew that better than anyone, but all the same it was hard to reconcile Lan Zhan as an omega.

(wwx makes an error of judgment)

If the shoe fits by 74243 | rated E | 8K words

Wei Ying loses a bet.

the And they were roommates series by 74243 | rated E | 19K words total

That was the other thing, when Wei Ying had moved in. She’d scented Lan Zhan immediately, the sandalwood and smoke rising off her, almost before she’d taken in Lan Zhan’s straight posture, her narrowed eyes. She’d known that Lan Zhan could tell, too. At the end, when they’d talked about the rent and Lan Zhan’s nearly finished PhD and Wei Ying’s working hours, Wei Ying had said, casual and effortless, “And you don’t mind that I’m an omega.”

“No,” Lan Zhan said.

Chef's kiss by 74243 | rated E | 7K words

Wei Ying said, “You know, in some ways I’m kind of depressed. I took your biggest dick on my first try. Now I don’t have anything to build up to.”

“There are bigger ones available,” Lan Zhan said lazily. “I can pay for express shipping.”

(Lan Zhan works the late shift.)

Gold-palmed Warrior Quest! by 74243 | rated E | 13K words

When Lan Wangji suggested that they camp along the way to the Unclean Realm, rather than staying at inns, Wei Wuxian had been sceptical.

Dway! by 74243 | rated E | 6K words

“Hm,” Wei Ying said. “You like it rough, though, right? You seem like that kind of alpha.” When she saw Lan Zhan’s expression she raised an eyebrow. “What? Was I wrong? Are you tender and sweet? Do you cry?”

“You were not wrong,” Lan Zhan said. “I do not cry. Do you?”

tgif by 74243 | rated E | 17K words

Today Lan Zhan says that if Wei Ying cannot control her mouth then she will have to tape it shut.

On the ground by 74243 | rated E | 5K words

“I think you will like it,” Lan Zhan said.

Does your mother know by 74243 | rated E | 5K words | editing this rec list on a monday morning to add this brand new fic fresh off the presses. thank u ao3 user 74243 for feeding us so well 🙏

“Lan Zhan is such a well-behaved girl,” Madam Yu said.

all that and more by Euphorion | rated E | 20K words

Wei Wuxian locks his phone and puts it down, blinks at his ceiling, and picks it up again. The pictures are still there.

His first thought is that Lan Zhan meant them for someone else. That he just woke up at—he checks the timestamp—6:30 am on a Sunday and decided to go absolute full nuclear seduction option on some poor boy he met on Grindr, who would now be missing out on the best thing to ever happen to him because Wei Wuxian had a bad habit of distracting—of—oh.

Pieces of last night start to resurface and paste themselves together in his head. He winces.

The Golden Cutsleeve by syrus_jones | rated E | 77K words | of my faves, this is one of my favorite... faves. top faves. incredibly fun and silly and hot. just... oh my GOD, wei YING!

“I know! Why don’t you try it? Let me go and I’ll lend it to you!” Wei Wuxian bribed hysterically, desperate to escape from this encounter by any means necessary. And then, his eyes blew wide, realizing what he just said. ‘Wait— just what am I offering Lan Zhan?!’ he thought. How was he so stupid, how did he just offer that without thinking—

“You want me...to use it… after you?” Lan Zhan asked, his voice unusually faint.

~*~

Wei Wuxian's test of mysterious, literally magical sex toy goes awry when Lan Wangji finds him in the woods 'experimenting' with it and it ends up in Lan Wangji's possession.

Unfortunately, neither of them is aware that the toy is anchored to Wei Wuxian's body. Too bad Wei Wuxian invited him to try it.

Boy Trouble, We've Got Double by saltyfeathers | rated E | 60K words | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is a really good fic

Lan Zhan stands there in his immaculate, cloud-patterned Lan robes, watching him calmly, one fist tucked up against his back. “I am betrothed.”

Wei Wuxian blinks. “Are you…” He tries to laugh. Again, it sounds inhuman. “Is this about last night? Are you mad at me? I only remember some of it, Lan Zhan. I’m sorry if I made you uncomfortable. I’m sure whatever I did I was just—” He gestures uselessly. He remembers being warm in Lan Zhan’s lap. He remembers fitting snugly in Lan Zhan’s lap. Wrapping his arms around Lan Zhan’s neck. Nosing at his jaw. “…playing around.”

“This has nothing to do with you, Wei Wuxian.”

none in the forest so bright as these by saltyfeathers | rated E | 6K words

Wei Wuxian puts a hand to his head, brain lost in fog. “Lan Zhan,” he pants. “Why are we here? Are we on a hunt?”

As Lan Zhan tries to remember, his brow furrows. He shakes his head slightly. “I don’t know.”

“This is bad,” Wei Wuxian says. When Lan Zhan cups his cheek again, sparks burst behind Wei Wuxian’s eyes. “Or maybe it’s not,” he says unthinkingly. Sighs, almost. Lan Zhan looks at his own arm like it's betrayed him. Wei Wuxian closes his eyes and presses his face into Lan Zhan’s palm. “Lan Zhan, Lan Zhan,” he murmurs. “What’s happening to us?”

out in the garden, there’s things you hid away by saltyfeathers | rated E | 121K words | oww oww oww 😣😣😣💘

There is a man with empty eye sockets and tears of fire in Wei Wuxian’s dreams. Tendrils of smoke curl around him in sleep, pressing at his most vulnerable spots, seeking entrance, slipping between his ribs.

When he ignores Lan Zhan's offers of help, he declines rapidly. He will die. Or, he should. Anyone else would.

Instead, he flees. And transforms.

crawling through your door by saltyfeathers | rated E | 12K words

Lan Wangji kisses him. When he pulls away, he speaks into the silence between them, because when he is with Wei Ying, he so rarely considers. “Why don’t you touch me anymore?”

Lan Zhan Works for the Historical Society by saltyfeathers | rated E | 7K words | some real real good lesbian action up in here

Pretty Lan Zhan. Beautiful Lan Zhan. Ice queen Lan Zhan. So intimidating and femme and coldly polite in public, yet meaner than a man in the bedroom. Wei Ying has slept with men before and none of them were mean-nice to her like Lan Zhan.

threadfic by saltyfeathers | not rated (each chapter rated/tagged individually) | 34K+ words | WIP (11/? chapters, last updated 3/15/21), but it’s a collection of stand-alone oneshots

semi cleaned-up wangxian twitter threadfic.

【已經打動我的心】So Sing To Me All Night by aroceu | rated T | 10K words | arrow writes wei ying so exquisitely well. i was weepy the whole time read this fic. for the best experience, i recommend following along with the accompanying spotify playlist.

No one listens to the radio in this day and age, but somehow from a bunch of left clicking and right clicking, through Facebook and Twitter and Youtube, Wei Ying finds himself on the WQHS homepage—the UPenn student radio station, promising eclectic tastes from a variety of hosts. Wei Ying can't remember giving a shit about his old college's student radio before he dropped out, but it's eleven at night and he has nothing else better to do. He clicks on the button that says Listen Here! and waits to be impressed.

get wild by aroceu | rated E | 24K words | 🔥🏀🔥 BASKETBALL FIC 🔥🏀🔥

He was looking for a specific reaction—to get Lan Zhan to lash out. All hard edges and demanding, the same way during the first scrim, Lan Zhan's dark voice had made him loose and obedient, itching to both rebel and obey at the same time.

It's them, whatever it is, but it doesn't belong on the basketball court.

Wei Ying didn't expect to enter a weird... something-with-benefits-plus-power-play with the captain of the Gusu basketball team. He's not sure if it's worth it.

without a warning by aroceu | rated T | 10K words | 🥺️🥺️🥺️

“Blegh,” Wei Ying says. “I hate being sick, Lan Zhan… my throat is so sore… why do I talk so much?”

“Stop talking then,” Lan Zhan says.

“You don’t mean that,” Wei Ying says, in his half-asleep daze. “I know you’ll never admit it, Lan Zhan, but you like it when I talk.”

your honor i’m a freak bitch by aroceu | rated E | 6K words

Wei Ying gestures to his outfit. His hands are buried deep within the hoodie; he’s mostly gesturing with the sleeves. “Well, it works with the whole get up, you see?”

“The…” Lan Zhan looks down at where his fingers are toying with the top of Wei Ying’s thigh highs. Wei Ying pretends he is not shivering. “…skirt. And these stockings.”

“Thigh highs, Lan Zhan!” Wei Ying says, batting at him with the end of a sleeve.

Play It By Ear by aroceu | rated T | 7K words | MY HEART !!!

In the virtual airplane flying over the island, appropriately called Yiling, Lan Zhan watches as bits and pieces of the island load in. There are many Statues of David, a gothic teacup ride, and, from what Lan Zhan can see, an entire field of spoiled turnips.

hanguang-jun @/hanguangjun Do you need turnips to sell?

timmy and tommy in a trenchcoat @/yilinglaozu oh! no haha! 😅 those are from a while ago but my brother insists i keep them there

for the ~aesthetic~

the key that our souls were singing by aroceu | rated M | 5K words

“I haven’t seen you since—Gusu, was it?” Wei Ying says. “Oh my god, it’s been so long. I didn’t even know you were LGBT! Unless you’re here as an ally, which is also totally cool—”

“No, I.” Lan Zhan coughs. Her throat feels dry. “I am a lesbian.”

abort retry fail by aroceu | rated E | 21K words

Lan Wangji must miss his husband over this amnesiac of a man Wei Wuxian has turned into. Well, Wei Wuxian will show him! He'll be even better—or at least, try to be just as good of a husband as he would be, without his memory loss.

Blackout If You Were Mine by aroceu | rated E | 9K words

Wei Ying likes to wear chokers a lot. So Lan Zhan buys some for him. Then, testing their limits, collars.

Wei Ying wears those, too.

Or, the one where Wei Ying and Lan Zhan accidentally stumble into a BDSM relationship.

eleven thousand meters & airborne by aroceu | rated E | 5K words | 😎✈️😎

Lan Zhan and Wei Ying join the mile high club.

many fox given by defractum | rated E | 24K words | can't go wrong with foxxian and dragonji content 🦊🐉

Lan Zhan is glaring at him. That's probably fair.

The last time they'd seen each other, Wei Ying had been digging through Lan Zhan's garbage. They'd made eye contact over the shredded bags, the week's trash scattered around him like stinky, oversized Lego.

Lan Zhan's eyes had been wide with horror, and Wei Ying's had been equally wide with feigned innocence. He'd reached out slowly, maintaining the eye contact, and then flipped over the food waste bin full of onion peel and carrot skin as a distraction and slunk off into the night. Probably not his finest moment.

Modern AU dragon!LWJ meets fox!WWX.

the tamed by defractum | rated E | 12K words

If the Second Jade of Lan insists on bringing the Yiling Patriarch as his guest to the next Cultivation Conference, he must first demonstrate a control over the Yiling Patriarch and his unnatural abilities.

The letter lies on their desk for days.

Post-canon, Wei Ying is invited, sort of, to a Discussion Conference.

us in a king-size, keep it a secret (say i'm your queen, i don't wanna leave this) by matcha_ado | rated E | 3K words

People always said Wei Ying was a royal pain in the ass. They were absolutely right, of course, just not in the way they thought.

it is wednesday my dudes by jelenedra | rated M | 4K words

Wednesday nights at Cloud Recesses strip club are always a little weird, but usually they're not this horny. Whatever Wei Ying and Lan Zhan get up to, Mianmian is not going to be the one to clean it up.

i'm the one for your fire by occultings | rated E | 43K words | cherry magic au! love it

Wei Ying, virgin and noted heterosexual, gets hit with a curse of an unusual nature on his 30th birthday — through physical contact, he can read the minds of others around him.

Enter Lan Zhan, hot former rival and current coworker, whose true thoughts about Wei Ying are nothing like he expects. (A loose Cherry Magic AU)

a thousand teeth, yours among them by darkredloveknot | rated E | 11K words

A one night stand in the time of zombies.

hoe to housewife pipeline by lanzhancore | rated E | 5K words

“You type fast,” Wei Ying murmurs, making a futile attempt at conversation while he waits for him to be done with… whatever. “Not to be pushy, but do you plan on fucking my ass anytime soon?”

or: wei ying has been thirsting after lan zhan for three slutty slutty years

can you feel it by lanzhancore | rated E | an instant classic

“What’s wrong?” Wei Ying asks finally, eyebrows drawn together. “Is everything okay?”

Thumbs stroking circles into his skin as if to comfort him, Lan Zhan says, “Don’t panic.”

“Lan Zhan,” Wei Ying says, sitting up on his elbows. “What did you do to my ass?”

“Nothing,” Lan Zhan says, convincing nobody. “But we need to go to the hospital.”

or: wei ying really should have sprung for the model with the flared base. he learns this lesson the hard way.

because you're mine (i walk the line) by lanzhancore | rated E | 8K words

Wei Ying is freshly cream-pied and still trying to remember where his legs are when Lan Zhan outlaws masturbation.

or: wei ying fucks around and finds out

payload by lanzhancore | rated M | 3K words | babysitter wwx + dilfji, what more could you need

Wei Ying has a whole five hours and thirty-six minutes to calm down but when he hears Lan Zhan’s key turning in the front door lock later that evening he has to cling to the couch cushions to keep from marching into the laundry room to retrieve the briefs so he can wave them in Lan Zhan’s face and demand to know who owns them.

or: lan zhan's self-restraint is not limitless

the to the brim series by verseau | rated E | 14K words total

Wei Ying wants to rob him, but it wouldn’t even be satisfying, since this guy is just—giving away money. With his nice fingers. Maybe Wei Ying will just bite his fingers, and that will give the same endorphin rush as robbing him. / a day told across five parts.

get that message home by verseau | rated G | 2K words | ohhhhhhhhh myyyyy godddddd 😭

Sizhui's father cannot haggle. It is a shame on Sizhui’s honor to have such an honest father.

Author's note [i'm including it here because it's golden]:

there is a scene in arrested development where lucille, who is on the opposite spectrum of humanity as lan zhan, asks, "it's a banana, michael. how much could one cost? ten dollars?" there are no bananas in this story.

dreaming and getting a glimmer by verseau | rated E | 27K words | a particular favorite of mine 🔥🍆💦🕳🔥

Wei Ying discovers himself.

trust your fingertips by plonk | not rated (but really rated E) | 15K word | 🥵️🥵️🥵️🥵️🥵️ plonk you’ve done it again!

Lan Wangji must suppress a shiver at every brush and press of Wei Wuxian’s fingers.

Under different circumstances - less public ones - he would welcome touch, given that his body is in such an aroused state.

Alas, his circumstances are these: sitting quietly while Wei Wuxian, the famous (infamous) Doctor of Yunmeng, digs his fingertips into Lan Wangji’s shoulders and chest and sides and hums thoughtfully.

Doctor, Doctor by YunmengLotus | rated E | 4K words | mmmmhmm!

Wei Ying needs to get a prostate exam. How ever will he deal when the world's hottest doctor walks through the exam room door and tells him to bend over?

TAKOYAKI by ariskamalt | rated E | 3K words | lan zhan gets jealous of his own damn appendages. meanwhile, wei ying is just having a good time.

Lan Zhan…cannot always feel or tell what his tentacles will do.

His free hand curls into a fist. Underneath his skin, the tentacles give a little squirm, as if aware of the challenge he has just issued them. No touching Wei Ying unless he says so, because he wants to touch Wei Ying first. They squirm again, as if to say, Tentacles: 1, Lan Zhan: 0.

That will just have to be remedied.

Or, as phnelt first described: Tentacle-ji with the semi autonomous tentacles getting jealous of his tenties for touching Wei Ying in places he hasn't yet

Outage by SugarMilkTea | rated E | 3K words | [cough] 😳😳😳

The power goes out in Lan Zhan and Wei Ying's rural home in the countryside. Lan Zhan takes advantage of the darkness to give in to one of his baser urges, and Wei Ying's first rural power outage experience is about to get a lot more interesting.

big hands (i know you’re the one) by martyrsdaughter | rated E | 8K words | NICE. 🔥🔥🔥

“Not a big talker, hm?” Wei Ying tilts his head to one side. “That’s okay, I’ve been told I’m a good enough conversationalist for three. My tongue is multi-talented and—”

He has just enough time to feel her palm on the back of his neck and think, oh, her hands are so big, before his words are being stolen into her mouth.

darling, am i a chore? by martyrsdaughter | rated E | 7K words

“Are you done playing around?”

Knowing that’s not what either of them actually wants, Wei Wuxian reaches up to tickle under Lan Wangji’s chin. Soft little scritches, coaxing motions—Lan Wangji is weak to all of them.

“You know what I want,” Wei Wuxian purrs, reaching up on his tiptoes to throw his arms over Lan Wangji’s shoulders. “Call me gege, won’t you? Call me and I’ll stop.”

(or: five times Lan Wangji paid special attention to Wei Wuxian’s interest in being his gege.)

put him on his knees, give him something to believe in by dustyloves | rated E | 2K words | if the title is quoting WAP, then you should know by now it’s gonna be some of that good filth

The next time Wei Ying kisses him, Lan Zhan is careful again. Wei Ying seems determined to make it very difficult.

the hard way by dustyloves | rated E | 9K words

"Anyway, you make it sound like something lewd is going on," Wei Ying complains. "It's all totally above board. She's just being a nice person. It's just one kind alpha grad student offering one room of her huge house to one beta undergrad in need, what could be more appropriate than that?"

// Wei Ying makes a mistake and finds out the hard way.

Exhibition by sevenless | rated E | 5K words

“Oh?” Wei Wuxian raises an eyebrow. “The forbidden section, Lan Zhan?”

“Mn.”

“You’re not afraid of being heard?” Wei Wuxian thinks aloud. A smirk creeps onto his face, eyes glinting. “Or could it be that Lan-er-gongzi actually wants to be heard? Seen? Caught?” He skips in front of him, blocking his way. "Disciplined?”

Lan Wangji’s ears, as always, betray him.

a history of the body by northofallmusic | rated E | 14K words

Wei Ying's body hurts sometimes; she lets Lan Zhan help her.

A fic about the complicated nature of having a body, and also the versatility of sex toys.

(our friendship) up against the ropes by daltoneering | rated E | 36K words

The reboot completes, and Wei Ying’s brain smashes this information together into two mind-shattering thoughts. Number one, he knew very well already, and is now further seared by defined muscles and a mouth-watering tattoo into his every waking moment: Lan Zhan is the hottest fucking person on the planet.

Number two: that guy wasn’t visiting Lan Zhan’s neighbour, he was visiting Lan Zhan, which means:

Lan Zhan fucks. Lan Zhan fucks. Lan Zhan fucks.

;

Lan Zhan has been Wei Ying's best friend for years. Literally, years. How did he not already know? How has he missed this most important of facts? And more importantly, how is he ever going to get over it?

watching my heart go round by typefortydeductions | rated E | 38K+ words | WIP (2/4 chapters, last updated 5/2/21) | lan zhan i love you baby 💞

Lan Zhan falls apart. As it turns out, that's not the end.

oh man this list is so long sd;jfkdsjfhhh

yati, i hope you find some stuff in this pile here that you’ll enjoy! it's not an exhaustive list, so check out the authors’ other works and bookmarks for more goods, if you feel so inclined 😙💕

#darlingbenny #mdzs #fic rec #nsfw!

37 notes · View notes

pumpkinpaix · 3 years

Note

Hello! Feel free not to answer this question if it is in any way too much, but I've been wondering about something concerning the "western" mdzs fandom. Lately, i have seen multiple pieces of fanart that use what is clearly Christian symbolism and sometimes downright iconography in depicting the characters. I'm a european fan, but it still makes me vaguely uneasy. I know that these things are rarely easy to judge. I'm definitely not qualified to do so and was wondering if you have an opinion

Hi there! thank you for your patience and for the interesting question! I’ve been thinking about this since i received this ask because it?? idk, it’s difficult to answer, but it also touches on a a few things that I find really interesting.

the short answer: it’s complicated, and I also don’t know what I feel!

the longer answer:

i think that this question is particularly difficult to answer because of how deeply christianity is tied to the western art and literary canon. so much of what is considered great european art is christian art! If you just take a quick glance at wiki’s page on european art, you can see how inextricable christianity is, and how integral christian iconography has been in the history of european art. If you study western art history, you must study christian imagery and christian canon because it’s just impossible to engage with a lot of the work in a meaningful way without it. that’s just the reality of it.

Christianity, of course, also has a strong presence in european colonial and imperialist history and has been used as a tool of oppression against many peoples and nations, including China. I would be lying if I said I had a good relationship with Christianity--I have always faced it with a deep suspicion because I think it did some very, very real damage, not just to chinese people, but to many cultures and peoples around the world, and that’s not a trauma that can be easily brushed aside or reconciled with.

here is what is also true: my maternal grandmother was devoutly christian. my aunt is devoutly christian. my uncle’s family is devoutly christian. my favorite cousin is devoutly christian. when I attended my cousin’s wedding, he had both a traditional chinese ceremony (tea-serving, bride-fetching, ABSURDLY long reception), and also a christian ceremony in a church. christianity is a really important part of his life, just as it’s important to my uncle’s family, and as it was important to my grandmother. I don’t think it’s my right or place to label them as simply victims of a colonialist past--they’re real people with real agency and choice and beliefs. I think it would be disrespectful to act otherwise.

that doesn’t negate the harm that christianity has done--but it does complicate things. is it inherently a bad thing that they’re christian, due to the political history of the religion and their heritage? that’s... not a question I’m really interested in debating. the fact remains that they are christian, that they are chinese, and that they chose their religion.

so! now here we are with mdzs, a chinese piece of media that is clearly Not christian, but is quickly gaining popularity in euroamerican spaces. people are making fanart! people are making A LOT of fanart! and art is, by nature, intertextual. a lot of the most interesting art (imo) makes deliberate use of that! for example (cyan art nerdery time let’s go), Nikolai Ge’s What is Truth?

I love this painting! it’s notable for its unusual depiction of christ: shabby, unkempt, slouched, in shadow. if you look for other paintings of this scene, christ is usually dignified, elegant, beautiful, melancholy -- there’s something very humanizing and humbling about this depiction, specifically because of the way it contrasts the standard. it’s powerful because we as the audience are expected to be familiar with the iconography of this scene, the story behind it, and its place in the christian canon.

you can make similar comments about Gentileschi’s Judith vs Caravaggio’s, or Manet’s Olympia vs Ingres’ Grande Odalisque -- all of these paintings exist in relation to one another and also to the larger canon (i’m simplifying: you can’t just compare one to another directly in isolation etc etc.) Gauguin’s Jacob Wrestling the Angel is also especially interesting because of how its portrayal of its content contrasts to its predecessors!

or! because i’m really In It now, one of my favorite paintings in the world, Joan of Arc by Bastien-Lepage:

I just!!! gosh, idk, what’s most interesting to me in this painting is the way it seems to hover between movements: the hyperrealistic, neoclassical-esque take on the figure, but the impressionistic brushstrokes of the background AAA gosh i love it so much. it’s really beautiful if you ever get a chance to see it in person at the Met. i’m putting this here both because i personally just really like it and also as an example of how intertextuality isn’t just about content, but also about visual elements.

anyways, sorry most of this is 19thc, that was what i studied the most lol.

(a final note: if you want to read about a really interesting painting that sits in the midst of just a Lot of different works, check out the wiki page on Géricault’s Raft of the Medusa, specifically under “Interpretation and Legacy”)

this is all a really long-winded way of getting to this point: if you want to make allusory fanart of mdzs with regards to western art canon, you kind of have to go out of your way to avoid christian imagery/iconography, especially when that’s the lens through which a lot of really intensely emotional art was created. many of my favorite paintings are christian: Vrubel’s Demon, Seated, Perov’s Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane, Ge’s Conscience, Judas, Bastien-Lepage’s Joan of Arc, as shown above. that’s not to say there ISN’T plenty of non-christian art -- but christian art is very prominent and impossible to ignore.

so here are a few pieces of fanwork that I’ve seen that are very clearly making allusions to christian imagery:

1. this beautiful pietà nielan by tinynarwhals on twitter

2. a lovely jiang yanli as our lady of tears by @satuwilhelmiina

3. my second gif in this set here, which I will also show below:

i’m only going to talk about mine in depth because well, i know exactly what i was thinking when I put this gif together while I can’t speak for anyone else.

first: the two lines of the song that I wanted to use for lan xichen were “baby, I’m a fighter//in the robes of a saint” because i felt that they fit him very well. of course, just the word “saint” evokes catholicism, even if it’s become so entwined in the english language that it’s taken on a secular meaning as well.

second: when I saw this scene, my immediate thought was just “PIETÀ!!” because LOOK at that composition! lan xichen’s lap! nie mingjue lying perpendicular to it! the light blue/white/silver of lan xichen in contrast to the darker robes of both nie mingjue and meng yao! not just that, but the very cool triangular structure of the image is intensely striking, and Yes, i Do love that it simultaneously ALSO evokes deposition of christ vibes. (baxia as the cross.... god..... is that not the Tightest Shit) does this make meng yao joseph of arimathea? does it make him john the evangelist? both options are equally interesting, I think when viewed in relation to his roles in the story: as a spy in qishan and as nmj’s deputy. maybe he’s both.

anyways, did I do this intentionally? yes, though a lot of it is happy accident/discovered after the fact since I’m relying on CQL to have provided the image. i wanted to draw attention to all of that by superimposing that line over that image! (to be clear: I didn’t expect it to all come through because like. that’s ridiculous. the layers you’d have to go through to get from “pretty lxc gifset” --> “if we cast nie mingjue as a christ figure, what is the interesting commentary we could do on meng yao by casting him as either joseph of arimathea or john the evangelist” are like. ok ur gonna need to work a little harder than slapping a song lyric over an image to achieve an effect like that.)

the point of this is: yes, it’s intentionally christian, yes I did this, yes I am casting these very much non-christian characters into christian roles for this specific visual work -- is this okay?

I obviously thought it was because I made it. but would I feel the same about a work that was written doing something similar? probably not. I think that would make me quite uncomfortable in most situations. but there’s something about visual art that makes it slightly different that I have trouble articulating -- something about how the visual often seeks to illustrate parallels or ideas, whereas writing characters as a different religion can fundamentally change who those characters are, the world they inhabit, etc. in a more... invasive?? way. that’s still not quite right, but I genuinely am not sure how to explain what i mean! I hope the general idea comes across. ><

something else to think about is like, what are pieces I find acceptable and why?

what makes the pieces above that reference christian imagery different than this stunning nieyao piece by @cyandemise after klimt’s kiss? (warnings for like, dead bodies and vague body horror) like i ADORE this piece (PLEASE click for fullview it’s worth it for the quality). it’s incredibly beautiful and evocative and very obviously references a piece of european art. I have no problem with it. why? because it isn’t explicitly christian? it’s still deeply entrenched in western canon. klimt certainly made other pieces that were explicit christian references.

another piece I’d like to invite you all to consider is this incredible naruto fanart of sakura and ino beheading sasuke after caravaggio’s judith. (warnings for beheading, blood, etc. you know.) i also adore this piece! i think it’s very good both technically and conceptually. the reference that it makes has a real power when viewed in relation to the roles of the characters in their original story -- seeing the women that sasuke fucked over and treated so disrespectfully collaborating in his demise Says Something. this is also!! an explicitly christian reference made with non-christian japanese characters. is this okay? does it evoke the same discomfort as seeing mdzs characters being drawn with christian iconography? why or why not?

the point is, I don’t think there’s a neat answer, but I do think there are a lot of interesting issues surrounding cultural erasure/hegemony that are raised by this question. i don’t think there are easy resolutions to any of them either, but I think that it’s a good opportunity to reexamine our own discomfort and try and see where it comes from. all emotions are valid but not all are justified etc. so I try to ask, is it fair? do i apply my criticisms and standards equally? why or why not? does it do real harm, or do i just not like it? what makes one work okay and another not?

i’ve felt that there’s a real danger with the kind of like, deep moral scrutiny of recent years in quashing interesting work in the name of fear. this morality tends to be expressed in black and white, good and bad dichotomies that i really do think stymies meaningful conversation and progress. you’ll often see angry takes that boil down to things like, “POC good, queer people good, white people bad, christianity bad” etc. without a serious critical examination of the actual issues at hand. I feel that these are extraordinarily harmful simplifications that can lead to an increased insularity that isn’t necessarily good for anyone. there’s a fine line between asking people to stay in their lane and cultural gatekeeping sometimes, and I think that it’s something we should be mindful of when we’re engaging in conversations about cultural erasure, appropriation etc.

PERHAPS IT IS OBVIOUS that I have no idea where that line falls LMAO since after all that rambling I have given you basically nothing. but! I hope that you found it interesting at least, and that it gives you a bit more material to think on while you figure out where you stand ahaha.

was this just an excuse to show off cool (fan)art i like? maybe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(ko-fi)

#Anonymous #asks and replies #art #fanart #art history #christianity #mdzs #mdzs meta #meta #mine #mymeta #cyan gets too deep in the weeds #lmfao this post is a mess ive been staring at it for like a week and at this point im just gonna post it to the wall and keep moving asldfj #hope you enjoyed

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