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ineffable-suffering · 3 months

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The meaning of "I forgive you"

Alright, hello again, I involuntarily dipped for a bit because real life outside of this lovely Tumblr Good Omens bubble got a little bit stressful, but! I'm back for a quick little post to say that I'm currently reading the script book for Season 1 and seeing this line again, spelled out on paper, just shone some more light on the whole „I forgive you“-scene of Season 2 for me again.

Because really, this first time Az says it to Crowley in front of the bookshop tells us exactly what the second time during the Final Fifteen means.

Aziraphale is not forgiving Crowley for kissing him. Or for using this moment to confess and make things explicit between them.

No, Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for not trusting and believing (in) him.

Let's shove the Final Fifteen to the side for a second and look at this scene from Season 1 under the cut.

The situation at hand: The World is ending, with utmost certainty. In addition, Crowley is absolutely f*cked and Hell is out to get him. He tries to apologise for their Bandstand fallout and explain the other two things to Az (poorly, but he tries). Because to Crowley, Armageddon is a done deal already. Wherever the actual Antichrist is, he's gonna come into his power and the World will be wiped out for Heaven and Hell to wage their war on. Also, Hastur is coming to kick his demon ass. Time to dip!

And yet, Aziraphale doesn't want to come with him. He is adamant that he will be able to reach the Almighty, talk to Her and turn this around. Because if Aziraphale, Guardian of the Eastern Gate, thinks there's even the slightest, tiniest morsel of a chance that he can turn things around the right way, he will do it. Even if it sounds ridiculous. Even if it's a lost cause to everyone else. Even if all the other angels gang up on him and (literally) beat him up.

Even if Crowley calls him stupid.

Aziraphale decides not to be offended by this.

Because this is what he does. This is what a Guardian does. He stays and protects to ward off the intrusion, until the very last second.

Now listen, I'm the last person to blame Crowley for intrinsically wanting to choose Flight over Fight in this very situation, because Lord knows (literally) what happened to him back when he chose Fight and lost.

But at the same time we have to keep in mind that despite his last name, Aziraphale never Fell. He never made the horrible experience of being chucked away by the one who made you to love Her because you chose to question her ways. And yes, in so many ways this choice of his, to still believe that he can change something by questioning and suggesting (both here and in S2), is utterly maddening and hurtful to Crowley. Because it's a mirror of what Crowley himself did and a reminder of just how big the price he had to pay was. Aziraphale seemingly not realizing or understanding this stings. It does.

And yet.

Yet Aziraphale's choice to not take no for an answer, to not let a punch to the gut derail him from his plan, to not let even the most definitive thing such as Armageddon keep him from fighting back, is the one thing that ends up saving the World.

Because even when it all seems impossible and completely hopeless and bloody Satan himself is erupting from the pits of Hell, ...

... Aziraphale picks up his sword and fights back.

And he wins.

Not without help, of course. But might I remind you of what got Crowley to cooperate and not simply surrender like he'd almost done that second?

You might not see it at first, but tucked in between all the posh hedonism, hidden away underneath that tightly buttoned waistcoat of his, Aziraphale is a fighter. And a good one at that. I mean, for Someone's sake, he got discorporated, beamed himself down back to Earth, found Crowley somehow, possessed a psychic prostitute (love you, Madame Tracy), rode a scooter all the way to Taddfield and fought off Lucifer with sheer willpower (and a bit of emotional coercion).

Aziraphale can fight. Smart and hard. And not only that: He can win, too. And he knows it. Because he believes, truly, firmly and wholly, that he can make things right. It's the only thing he will settle for. This, ladies and gents, this is how he ends up saving the World, together with Crowley, Adam and the rest.

Because he didn't accept no as an answer. He didn't look at the impossible and accept it as such. Even when Crowley thought him to be an idiot for trying and even after his initial attempt at talking to God had failed, Aziraphale still found a way to stop The Big Bad Thing from happening.

Which is exactly what his plan is when he ends up being forced to come back to Heaven by the Metatron. (If you still believe this was a voluntary choice, read here). And which is exactly why he is so hurt and still ends up forgiving Crowley for the fact that Crowley doesn't end up coming with him. Doesn't end up understanding, trusting and believing (in) him, just like all the way back at the end of the World in Season 1.

Aziraphale decides not to be offended by this.

#good omens #good omens season 2 #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #good omens meta #gos2 #good omens 2 #i forgive you #*saunters onto your feed* i'm BACK #the final fifteen #aziraphale is a fighter #and he will always win #my own meta

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ineffable-endearments · 4 months

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I was rethinking the bookshop meta I wrote a while ago and realized I was not thinking big enough.

The bookshop has always been Aziraphale's version of Crowley's plants (his trauma reenactment), but also, absolutely everything Aziraphale does in Season 2 is a re-creation of Heaven's role. Crowley's behavior also encompasses everything, not just his plants.

I've seen it suggested that centering Aziraphale and Crowley's trauma histories is reducing their characters to behaving like just reactive victims instead of survivors with agency. Or worse, it's "excusing bad behavior." I don't agree with either of these, because I feel that part of Good Omens is about how large, powerful systems affect individuals, and so the context of every character's decisions matters a lot to the overall themes of the story. Everyone starts out working within a system they believe to reflect reality and then has to learn how to break free of it. You cannot really illustrate that without having the characters start out being genuinely trapped with different ways of coping with their reality.

This is an attempt at a pretty big-picture meta. Although it isn't a plot prediction, it's how I think some of the series' themes are going to progress. It starts out perhaps a little grim, but in the long run, it's how Aziraphale's character growth and relationship with Crowley can simultaneously be massive for them as individuals, a crucial part of the overarching narrative message of the series, and symbolic of a change in all of Heaven and Hell, all while allowing the themes to continue to prioritize human free will.

In short, it's about Aziraphale's problems, but it's also meant to be an Aziraphale love post.

All of the below exists in tandem with Good Omens as a comedy of errors. Just because there are heavy ideas does not mean they will not also be funny. Look back on how much of Season 2 seemed silly until we started to pick it apart! One of the amazing things about Good Omens is how it manages to do both silly and serious at once! (I feel like that's maybe a little Terry Pratchett DNA showing through. "Laughter can get through the keyhole while seriousness is still hammering on the door," as Terry himself said.)

Aziraphale has really embraced his connection to Crowley in Season 2, and he has also become considerably more assertive toward Heaven and Hell. These are both major growth points compared to the beginning of Season 1.

However, again, we have the concept of growing pains...Aziraphale is starting to re-create Heaven's role in his relationship with Crowley and humanity. It's really obvious with the Gabriel argument and the I Was Wrong Dance, but I think we see it all over the place: he seems to feel any serious dissent is a betrayal. He also seems to assume there's a dominance hierarchy and he, of course, is on top. Now that he's decided to take control of his own future, then surely that does mean he's the one in control, right?

With all that said, he still seems to have trouble being direct about the feelings that make him most vulnerable. He manipulates people and engineers situations in which he can try to get his emotional needs met rather than saying things outright (case in point: the Ball).

Like I pointed out in the bookshop meta: subconsciously, he's playing the role of God, modified with what God would be if She were everything he wants Her to be. He's generous, almost infinitely sweet, always does what's best for people...or, at least, what he believes is best for people. During the Ball, Aziraphale influences the people around him to be comfortable and happy even when they're not supposed to be, and he limits their ability to talk about things he thinks are too rude or improper for happy, formal occasions.

Doesn't this pattern sort of make sense for an angel who's just discovering free will? Like, at the end of Season 1, he made an enormous choice to stand against Heaven and realized he could survive it. Now he's gone a bit overboard with exerting his own will. Unfortunately, while he's learned to question upper management, he's still operating on a fundamental framework of the universe where there have to be two sides and there has to be a hierarchy. Also, since Aziraphale is on the Good side, he of course has to gear his desires into what's Good rather than just what he wants, so he sometimes thinks he's doing things for others when really he's doing things for himself. (For example, matchmaking Maggie and Nina started out as something he wanted to use to lie to Heaven, but by the time he was commenting "Maggie and Nina are counting on me," he seemed sincere, like he had genuinely convinced himself this was for them and not for himself.)

Aziraphale knows Heaven interferes in human affairs, ostensibly on God's behalf. He thinks She should be intervening in ways that are beneficial. What I believe the narrative wants him to learn is that God and Heaven shouldn't be manipulating people at all, not even for Good, and in fact there is no real meaningful hierarchy.

Anyway, a top-down, totally unquestioned hierarchy is the primary social relationship Aziraphale has known, and it's certainly been the dominant one for most of his existence: you're either the boss or the underling, and if someone seriously questions you, they don't have faith in you - they don't respect you.

No, his relationship with Crowley has not always been like that, but they've been creating their relationship from whole cloth, so how would he know it shouldn't become that way, now that it's "real" and out in the open?

No, human relationships aren't like that, but Aziraphale clearly does not see himself or Crowley as human. As the relationship approached something that seemed like it must be "legitimate," Aziraphale would naturally look for a framework to fit it to. And again, the only one he has is the shape of "intimacy," or what passes for it, in Heaven. What has "trust" always meant in all his "legitimate" relationships? It has always meant unquestioning obedience, of course. What have the warm fuzzies felt like in Heaven? Well, praise from the angels above him is nice, so that must be it, right?

Aziraphale even describes being in love as "what humans do," separating out that relationship style. Someday, I think he'll realize he favors the shape of love on Earth, something that's more inherently equal, more give-and-take. Look at how he idealizes it from afar at the Ball. But I think that, like Crowley before Nina pointed it out, Aziraphale maybe hasn't 100% grokked that it can and in fact should work that way for him and Crowley, too. Just like people can desperately want to dance without knowing how to dance, or can desperately want to speak a language without knowing the language, Aziraphale does not instinctively know how to have the kind of relationship where he can be truly vulnerable and handle Crowley's vulnerability as well.

Aziraphale is downright obsessed with French, known as the "language of love." He's trying to learn it the Earthly way. He's not very good at it, but he wants to be.

This pattern is still present during the Final Fifteen even if we assume Aziraphale is asking Crowley to become an angel again out of fear (and I find it very hard to believe that fear doesn't factor in at all). He's still building his interactions off of that Heaven-like framework: he asks Crowley to trust him blindly, he tries to assume a leadership role with a plan Crowley never agreed to and couldn't follow anyway, and he tries very hard not to leave room for an ounce of doubt. He also suggests making Crowley his second-in-command and obviously does not register that this could possibly be offensive. Again, I think this is because for Aziraphale, there has always been a hierarchy in Heaven, it's started to transfer to his relationship with Crowley, and breaking out of that assumption about relationships is going to take more processing than a single argument can do.

As I mentioned in another post, I don't believe Aziraphale had a real choice about whether he accepted the Supreme Archangel position. I think he could sense that he was not getting out of it and chose to look on the bright side, to see it as an opportunity. And instead of looking realistically at how that would feel to Crowley, he tried to sweep Crowley up to Heaven with him using toxic positivity, appeals to morality, and appeals to their relationship itself. Again, mimicking what Heaven has done to him.

To me, "they're not talking" is a big clue that Aziraphale's approach with Crowley is going to be the mistake the narrative really wants him to face. "Not talking" has, thus far, been presented as the central conflict of Season 3! After losing the structure and feedback Heaven gave him, Aziraphale started creating Heaven-like patterns in his relationship with Crowley, and breaking out of those patterns is what he needs to do. Discovering first-hand that Heaven's entire modus operandi is bad no matter who's in charge is how he can do it.

Look, either you're sympathetic to Aziraphale's control issues or you're not. Personally, I am. He's trying so, so hard to be good. I think trying to figure yourself out (which Aziraphale is clearly doing) is hard enough, and when you start balancing what you want for yourself, what you think are your responsibilities, and what other people are actively asking of you, you're bound to fall into the patterns that have been enforced for your whole life or for millions of years, whichever came first.

It is very easy to assume that people should Just Be Better, but it's not actually that simple to be a thinking, feeling person. My anxiety tends to move in a very inward direction and Aziraphale's moves outward. But I'd imagine the desperation and exhaustion are the same.

Unlike Nina, Aziraphale became a rebound mess. I don't think it occurred to either him or to Crowley that there could be any soul-searching, anything but carrying on with the new normal after their stalemate with Heaven and Hell.

Now, instead of getting rejected by Heaven and surviving it, Aziraphale needs to be the one to reject Heaven. It needs to be a choice. And that choice is going to come from realizing that Heaven isn't just poorly managed but also represents a bad framework for all relationships.

How could this happen? Good question. We're obviously not supposed to know yet, although I think picking at existing themes within the narrative could possibly give us hints.

It's possible Aziraphale's character development trajectory will be akin to Adam Young's in Season 1. Please see this stellar post by eidetictelekinetic for more thoughts about it, but basically, in Season 1, Adam saw that the world was not what he wanted it to be and decided his vision was better; as he ascended to power, he took complete control over all his friends and then soon realized that's not what he wants because there's no point in trying to have relationships with people who can't choose you. It's that realization that leads Adam to conclude he doesn't want to take over the world and to reject the role he's expected to play as the Antichrist. Maybe Aziraphale's trip to Heaven is an attempt at a control move during which he'll realize he's defeating his own point.

Aziraphale clearly wants to be chosen. From the very beginning, he's wanted to be special and cared for - just like Crowley has.

Incidentally, I think Aziraphale and Crowley are going to represent pieces of the bigger picture here, and this - first imitating and then rejecting Heaven's relationship style - can both symbolize Heaven's transformation and directly start it (probably in an amusing, somewhat indirect way, like when he handed off the flaming sword to Adam).

If I'm right - which I may very well not be - I think this would all be so, SO cool. Like, "An angel who is subconsciously trying to be a better God" is a concept with so much potential for both tender kindness and incredible darkness. Add to that the comedy-of-errors aspect of "...but even deeper down, he'd much rather just be super gay on Earth" and you have, in my opinion, a perfect character.

I think this could work for Crowley as well. It's obvious that in the Good Omens universe, at least so far, Hell is all about detesting humans and punishing them; Satan seems to genuinely hate humans (unlike in some of NG's other works). Our perspective on this could change, but it potentially puts Crowley in a complementary position to Aziraphale, as a demon who is trying to be "better" than Satan. But this isn't about being "morally better." It's about things having a point. Crowley's exploits usually have a point: they test people. And you can pass his tests! He sincerely likes making trouble, but Crowley doesn't live to punish.

But, once again, the above paragraph would describe a transient phase for this infinitely charming character. Because, again, I think the point will be that in the end, Crowley's deeper-down desire, moreso than testing Creation, is watching it grow with a glass of wine in hand.

#go3 speculation

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evilwickedme · 9 months

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I just. Ugh. Oh my God. The fucking PARALLELS this season of Good Omens. Y'all know I'm an absolute fool for a good parallel, so to get so many? I'm so well fed today

Crowley and Azira are like, the definition of soulmates of the kind that are made, you know? Like there is no one single other being in the whole of Creation that shares even a fraction of the same experiences. Six thousand years in the making, this ship is - even more according to this season !!! And YET, they are absolutely brand new. They've never been in a romantic relationship - not with each other, not with anyone - and as Crowley pointed out, they've essentially just gotten out of toxic relationships with Heaven and Hell. Except like, not really? Because we see Crowley really got out Heaven so heavily traumatized he never really put all that much stock into Hell. Yeah, Hell might've still been abusive, but Crowley was halfway out the door the whole time. Azira, tho... He still buys into all of it. He's technically out the door, but he hasn't done any of the deprogramming you need to do in order to move on (I feel like I'm mixing my metaphors a little by using cult-related languages, but also abusive relationships are essentially two person cults, so)

And this season sets this dynamic up so perfectly with Nina and Maggie!!!!! And we're supposed to think that Nina is Crowley because she's dark and broody and Maggie is Azira cause she's frankly precious but really it's the other way around and it's Nina who finishes the season being like "I can't be in a relationship right now because I still need to work on myself having just ended an incredibly toxic relationship" and it's just. Nina and Maggie don't end the season together because that's not what they need right now and bc of that they might still be able to be together later, but Crowley and Azira hold onto each other SO DAMN HARD that they end up losing each other SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE AZIRA CAN'T DO THAT SAME THING OF UNPACKING HIS BASE ASSUMPTIONS it's like leaving a cult cause they were mean to you once but still buying into the new agey stuff they used to love bomb you into joining the cult in the first place

And so that's the relationship part of things but also we've got like soo many parallels showing how broken the system is in the first place and obviously ineffable bureaucracy is what stands out here because of the literal lines coming out of various characters' mouths during this plotline but can we talk about how heavily brainwashed Muriel is and how clearly they're supposed to be exactly like a young Aziraphale, one who doesn't "have" Crowley yet!!! Like tell me that if you gave Muriel a fiery sword and told them to watch over the first ever pregnant couple in history they wouldn't give them that Goddamn sword. Nobody on either side is capable of questioning their position in life without exposure to Something Else, but it doesn't have to be like, the being you're going to run off to alpha centauri with. It could very much be a copy of The Crow Road

(sidenote, has anybody read this book? It seems like an incredibly deliberate choice but I've never heard of it! I think I might send in an ask to Neil Gaiman himself if I don't see any meta soon)

Anyway yeah um. I don't know how to end this. Parallels and shadow selves fuck (double entendre)

#ok I lied I do have Thoughts I just hadn't processed them yet #parallels are like my favorite thing #good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #ineffable bureaucracy #crowley #aziraphale #good omens spoilers #gail speaks

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vidavalor · 5 months

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Hello! I trully love your metas ♥️

And I want to believe… but how do you match the fact that they have kissed (even fucked) for so many time with the only kiss we have seen which is so clumsly, so fist-time-type, and so turbovirgin?

Thank you!

Hi @margotmignard-blog Thank you and nice to meet you. :) Ok, this is for you and the few Anons who have sent me more or less the same Ask in the last 2 weeks or so as some of my posts have circulated a bit more so yeah, alright, I'll take it on. All of you please help yourself to hot chocolate and holiday M&Ms, even if you are making me think about Every again to write this lol.

Why do I think Crowley & Aziraphale are long-time lovers when Every is an awkward kiss? Because you know what looks just like clumsy, first-time kisses?

Old-married argument kisses of desperation when all other communication is failing that then wind up failing, too, that's what.

Two people kissing in distress is clumsy and messy no matter what stage of their relationship they're in and if they're upset and think the other is about to walk out the door and conflicted about opening up to the kiss because of the argument then all of that makes for a truly gut-wrenchingly awkward kiss. It didn't read as a first time kiss to me at all but I can understand how it might to someone.

I actually think that's the insanely evil genius of it lol. This show is such a bastard worth knowing, I tell ya. :) Right now, they have everyone being all "they need to have a better second kiss!" and just well... if you were them, wouldn't you want that? Would seem a good way to bury the surprise of an older kiss, wouldn't it? Would be a good way to sleight of hand some doubt into *checks notes* apparently everybody but me and a handful of others lol and so help to have everyone flailing again but for a better reason when they throw in an older, better kiss.

It's also a bolder move, both story-wise and performance-wise. Sadly, it's still a big deal that they've even kissed at all and it shouldn't be but, thankfully, it's becoming more common. In a way, though, that makes the fact that they made the first kiss you saw less than ideal a better choice and a better story.

Some more thoughts on this under the cut below that is beneath some gifs of these two who haven't apparently ever kissed before moments away from sex in the wall slam scene in S1... which is Every's parallel scene. By design. To illustrate a contrast. The first kiss we saw is a mirror of oh, just the start of some casual public sex that got interrupted by SatanicNun!Nina. Haven't we all had that relationship where we let someone throw us against a wall before we ever kissed? I mean...

Look at Aziraphale and his little 'getting up to some sexy trouble' smile here... does he not look like he knows *exactly* what he's asking for here and does Crowley not know what the request is and give it to him in a way that screams that this is not the first time? The tone here is a bit... You know, Crowley, I've always said I wanted to fuck in an empty broom closet in a former satanic nunnery and luck of the devil, you just kicked in a door and found one so you are sooooo nice throw me against the wall baby let's go... oh terrific of course this is exactly when the damn nun shows up oh well at least I can enjoy you slurring your S's in sexual frustration for now...

Good Omens throws something down and then gives you context for it later on that causes you to revisit what you thought when you initially watched it, right? They do this all the time. The scenes themselves always work fine on first viewing but they change and morph into a different scene when viewed with the added context the show gives you later. If you're writing a show in that way, you absolutely would make Every the first kiss you showed the audience... *especially* if it was in a cliffhanger-y season finale. Your Ask is exactly the reason why. You and I and a bonkers number of others are engaging with one another on the topic and we're engaging with the show as a result. Some of us are apparently willing to fight to the death insisting that Every is their first kiss. Some of us are like how you appear to be from your Ask, where you're willing to keep an open mind but you're leaning towards it was the first kiss. Some of us are like me and are feeling that, when all is said and done, they are building a relationship that is millennia old and that the show will wind up illustrating an entire history of it by its end and the idea that we have scenes out there already like Rome and The Globe Theatre and 1941 and Tadfield Manor but people think that they just kissed for the first time in 2023 is kind of head-scratching to me.

I've had people ask me how an ancient times vavoom would advance the story and I've answered in other meta how I think it would but I have an ask back for you all: how, honestly, would 2.06 being their first kiss advance the story? They've written characters who have had a relationship of some form with one another since before the Garden of Eden and have shown us that story throughout different points in time. S3 is going to be, at best, set a couple of years out from S2 and is probably set a lot sooner than that, so we're going to end their story sometime before 2026 on their timeline, probably... and the first kiss was in 2023? When you have the opportunity to write an entire millennia-old romantic relationship with all of its highs and lows and show it in the flashbacks and how they inform the relationship in the present? Because that story is already there. That's the story I see watching this and have since the first time I watched it. I'm frankly kinda floored by the number of people who insist that it's their first kiss, especially two seasons into the show. The same show that gave you this before it gave you The Blitz, Part 2?

I got accidentally spoiled for Every like a lot of people and when I saw Crowley's glasses on, I had the feeling that it was probably going to be a terrible kiss. I was hoping that it wasn't the only kiss in the season but when 2.05 finished without it showing up yet, it became obvious that it was going to be a big thing in the finale (hahaha oh God, remember when we didn't know? simpler times lol) and that meant that it was likely the only kiss in the season and while it ripped my heart out like it did everyone else, I never saw it as a first kiss for a second.

If you've been with somebody for a long time and, like everyone else, you have your disagreements and your things to work through but you tend to be the kind of couple where you can always or almost always rely on a baseline of physical communication that helps you express what you feel for one another-- which is a wordy way of saying 'when you've been with someone forever and the sex is amazing' lol-- maybe the worst thing that can happen between you is if that feels like it's falling apart, too. That's what I see in that kiss and, in particular, Aziraphale's reaction to it.

It's not 'turbo-virgin', in an unfamiliar with kissing way, imo-- it's a situation causing conflict for Aziraphale over whether or not he wants to give into the kiss. We've all seen it from every damn angle by now lol. We see him unable to not give in, just a little. He kisses Crowley back a bit. He touches his shoulder and his side. He doesn't pull away because he just can't, really, because he never really wants to not be kissing Crowley, but he also can't just give in because that's the situation that Crowley's set up by kissing him the way he did. Crowley wants him to run away with him and that's not a solution to any of this, either, and everything is a total mess and if Aziraphale just gives in and opens up more and really kisses Crowley, he's saying yes to just running off with him and they can't. There's really nowhere to go.

Even with all of that, he still can't resist kissing Crowley a bit and touching him because Crowley and because what he really wants is for them to be literally anywhere else, somewhere safe away from all of it, without having to worry about Heaven & Hell, but they aren't and he can't pretend that they are. That'd be even crueler, really, to really kiss Crowley and then still go to Heaven, right?

It's not a first kiss and at a bad time panic-- it's oh God, I think we broke it. It's the heartbreak of suddenly being in this place together where they aren't communicating well on any level and that going past having a verbal disagreement and into the pain of having an absolutely brutally bad kiss with someone with whom you've had countless passionate ones and the terror that it might be the last one and you're never going to feel any of that again.

That's happened to them before.

It's the brutal 1862 scene. Aziraphale in 1862's comment about The Agreement is the most embittered you won't touch me anymore thing ever. They've gone from The Arrangement in their looser, flirtier Globe Theatre era to now what Aziraphale calls The Agreement in 1862. The difference between an arrangement and an agreement is basically where the future is concerned. An agreement is, well, an agreement lol but it tends to be more formal, more restrained, while an arrangement is an agreement that contains more of a view to the future. It's a plan. You agree to meet up but you arrange how, basically. They don't have The Arrangement in 1862 anymore, they have The Agreement and it sounds like the exact fucking opposite of The Arrangement. The Agreement is "stay out of each other's way. Lend a hand, as needed," according to Aziraphale.

Read that again: "Stay out of each other's way. Lend a hand, as needed." See a problem here? If we're just talking about helping each other out with work assignments then this literally just doesn't make any sense at all as how can you both stay out of each other's way but lend a hand as needed? It's one or the other. It can't be both. It's "stay out of each other's way" when it comes to work assignments. It's "lend a hand, as needed" in their love life and Aziraphale is bitter as all holy fuck about it. They're barely having sex anymore.

That scene in 1862 actually also parallels part of the scene that contains Every. Funny how alike "we have a lot in common, you and me" sounds to what Crowley says in 2.06, isn't it? Dude has got to stop asking for holy water or to run away when they're both a mess-- it not working lol.

The point is that they've been together a long time and they've also both experienced a lot of trauma. They've have times where miscommunications snowballed and it felt broken beyond repair but it's not and it's not because they love each other and they eventually figure it out. That's part of the pain of Every, though, because what happened after Crowley came back from Hell in 1827 was bad and it took a long time to get to a better place with it but they did and better than before and then this kiss that they think could wind up being their last is a complete disaster straight out of the mid-1800s on top of the fact that they're in what feels like in the moment irreversible disagreement.

It's a painful kiss. It hurts to watch. It's supposed to. Not because they've never kissed before but because they've kissed a trillion times and this is by far the worst of the lot.

And these bastards decided it was the first one we should see lol. It's okay, though. These are coming soon, in the past and present:

#ineffable husbands #good omens #crowley #aziraphale #good omens meta #good omens s2 #aziracrow #good omens 2

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phantomram-b00 · 4 months

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So I saw this meme and it perfectly capsulate how I feel with what I gotta talk about because my love language is talking about my special interest and this brainrot is still strong even if we’re in 2024.

So I know I haven’t done a meta-analysis in a hot minute. I think the last I did was the Coffee theory. And imma be for real, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to keep going (more on that later) but then I saw this and I said “oh yeah, this is for me to talk about”. As it about Aziraphale. More specifically about people claiming he’s a villain or wrong. Which is hilariously wrong in so many ways.

Mostly because, name one thing about that that automatically made him a villain? Especially with after everything he have done. But also do people not remember the fact that he did deny it at first. After what happen technically five years ago, he want zero parts with Heaven. The last thing he ever wants to do is go back to his former side that tried to kill him just because he saved earth, God’s creation. The only reason he wanted to join was 1) Metatron said he can appoint Crowley. 2) Aziraphale believe if he an archangel he can fix the broken system if it means sacrificing his own happiness. And this is just me personally, 3) Metatron threaten him and even after as he walk with Aziraphale gave him no choice at all. Then again he never really did but I’ll get to that later. None of those reason scream villainous, did he choice heaven? Yeah, but that shouldn’t automatically deem him as a villain. If that was the case, he could’ve been considered “villain” in season 1 when he tried to back out from trying to save the world; but even if he was considered that back in season 1, that still doesn’t doesn’t make sense.

The reason he tried to back out at first is because he was stressed and was scared. Imagine being in his shoes, your whole life you were taught and molded to obey without questioning the righteousness of God/Archangels with a chance that if you do to either fall or get destroyed. So you’re made to believe you are on the “good side” and expected to do “the right thing” in their eyes because it “what God wanted” so you do the right thing so you can get approval and not get ridiculed or worse punished. That’s how Aziraphale was raised to believe, regardless that he heavily disagrees with armageddon as much as Crowley does he scared to revert the apocalypse not to mention stressed given how many days they have left on this earth. But one thing also about Aziraphale is that he’s trying to hold onto hope that maybe he can try stopping it by talking with God, and when that doesn’t work he did try to reach out to Crowley before being inconveniently discorporated and even so he still try to go back to earth to revert it. Was there thing Azirapahle could’ve done better? Ofc, I don’t think he should’ve said “I don’t even like you” to Crowley or said “I forgive you” the first time and many others but that still doesn’t make him a villain. He’s just a flawed grey character, even in the blitz episode in season 2, they talk about how they’re a shade of grey.

As for if he’s wrong for the choices? Ahhhh see this is where it’s tricky because many people have commented their beliefs. So it truly up to your opinion regardless. But since I’m making this post, I’ll say, no. He’s not wrong. Going back to what I said, he wants to make Heaven a better place. You can’t blame him for wanting to fix something. Crowley is absolutely right that Heaven and Hell for that matter is toxic but Aziraphale wanting to make it better isn’t inherently wrong. It just Aziraphale gonna have to see that Heaven is beyond repair and it isn’t his responsibility to fix the system that been damaged but to Aziraphale he wants to. He wants to make it better even if it means leaving everything he loves and care about. Even if it hurts to leave Crowley, his bookshop, or everything but if he wants to fix it, I don’t think you can blame him.

And I said this in past post but I think regarding him wanting to appoint Crowley, I think he just want Crowley along his side because he want him to fix it with him. But Aziraphale I’ll admit should’ve considered how Crowley already feels about heaven. He was casted out and wants no part with Heaven at all. So even if there a chance to fix it in his eyes, Heaven is damaged. Far too damage to repair but also that the source of his trauma. So why should he come back? So I’ll give it that, and I think deep down Aziraphale knew this outcome might’ve played out but I think Aziraphale thought if he suggested maybe fixing it might spark something. How Azirpahale is thinking is that, just because something is damaged doesn’t mean it unfixable and there’s hope for salvaging it. However, Crowley’s thinking is that there no fixing that’s dead in the water. In this case neither are wrong.

And look I’ll say this, Crowley’s plan to running away, even though it sounds good. I mean, if Beelzebub and Gabriel can do it (which they deserve their flowers like say what you will about this couple I love it.) why couldn’t they? But the thing is that even back in Episode 1 of season 2, Aziraphale told Crowley when he was an angel that everything was going to be shut down. Which would also include Alpha Centauri or any other dimensions he wants to runaway with Aziraphale. Granted it not guarantee that maybe Alpha Centauri or any other galaxy aren’t save maybe they will and I’m reading it wrong. However if Earth is to be destroyed because of this Great War that going to happen, who to say the other galaxies would be safe too? It too risky to just run away I mean granted it not safe to stay neither if the world might end but running away won’t solve anything.

And now with the season coming happening, I think even though yes, Aziraphale did chose Heaven over Crowley which yes that fucking hurts. I’m not going to deny that. It hurts on both sides with Crowley being rejected and losing the one thing that made sense in the world and Aziraphale having to give up everything and realizing he made a mistake. It a tear jerking mess. But at the same time, with season 3 coming and confirmed, now he has to save the world and Crowley on his end without talking to Crowley. Which is gonna hurt like hell (or heaven who knows they’re both toxic atp) but Aziraphale will do anything to save and protect Crowley and Earth. And I’m pretty sure he would do anything to get Crowley back or the bookshop back

Now just a disclaimer, as much as I relate to this character and he’s my favorite and my comfort character, I’m not going to say Aziraphale perfect. He’s a bastard worth knowing for a reason right? But all I’m just saying is that villainizing him is throwing away all his characteristic and progress he making or made out the window just this one decision, we can’t villainized him for this one instant especially as it really out of character for him to ever be a villain to begin with. I’m not saying you have to like him but again don’t villainize him for this one choice where there more nuance into it.

But that’s really my two since, I just don’t see why people would think Aziraphale’s a villain or wrong imo. Might be controversial but hey, it was fun to talk about it. If you guys have any opinions are this, that cool let me know, if you agree or disagree hey valid but plz be respectful and don’t call Aziraphale the villain. Honestly how do you feel about people calling aziraphale a villain or wrong for what he did?

Now onto what I was talking about before (you don’t have to read if you don’t have to, this is just me explaining it. If you wanna read, that’s cool too. ^v^)

So, before anything, uh I’m not leaving tumblr or good omens fandom. No, I love the fandom and tumblr enough to leave. Good omens fandom have been very lovely and I met people on here so I like to shoutout to that but also Good omens is my comfort and I don’t wanna leave that.

But what I’m getting that is that, without getting too personal, I’ve been having posting anxiety. What I mean is that I’ve been having low confidence over what to post and if this post will be good enough. And it doesn’t help that I haven’t been feeling the best for the past couple of months or so. I thought 2024 would be different and I mean I have faith that it is, just things haven’t been easy I’ll just say. And haven’t been feeling or doing the best. No I’m not going on a hiatus, i hope not, i just need to think things over.

However, I think I have some thoughts, like I do wanna post more art but I do also wanna continue talking about stuff. Maybe both too? I mean there many drawing idea I have so much idea off, I just need to not have this anxiety weighting over me. Or not overthink things.

If you have read this far, thanks for listening ghost pal! I guess TLDR: I’m not going anywhere; I just want to improve and post stuff I like. Again good omens is my favorite show and I love it to bits and I have so much to say and/or draw. Just ahh, gotta work on it. But thanks for listening and hope you enjoy this ghostly rambles on their favorite character. And stay tune for another post I’ll do. And uh, boo!

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tenok · 2 months

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Today I saw this ask:

and I want say it without being mean, in absolutely happy tone, because yes thank you I'm overjoed we have this discussion moving: yes!!! Yes you are, you misundestood not only Aziraphale’s, but also Crowley’s character, and that makes them both bland!

The whole point of Good Omens is about shades of grey, remember? We had it stated sever times in canon. It doesen’t mean «pure good Crowley makes pure evil Aziraphale better person». It means that they both are absolutely not perfect, and it’s what makes then human, and it what makes them actually better, because perfection leads to uniformity and they are so so unique!

Crowley’s not jumping to saving every soul he see. Even from the start! Before the beginning? He loves his stars, not concerned for some monkeys that would look at them! (which is absolutely normal! Why he should care?). Adam and Eve? He’s nervous because he wasn’t expecting such harsh punishment for some dumb apple, he thinks it’s unfair, he's willing to discuss it with Aziraphale — which doesen’t want to discuss anything, but he also can’t stand to see humans suffering when he can do something. He’s the one that selflessly and not thinking about how it will hit him back jumps to help! Great Flood? They both stands there, just watching, and yes, Crowley argues that it’s unfair again, but Aziraphale’s not there with «oh it’s actually fine :)» smile as some people insist — he’s worried too and, and things he quote sounds awfully as something heavens would say to the one angel that immediatly asked «but surely we can’t kill everyone??». He’s quoting it because he have nothing else to say, not for Crowley, not for himself. And they both can only watch. Christ? Again, they’re not jumping to save, they watch.

(side note, but I think people just don’t get how important it is. We live in awful times, there’s so much war and death around, and you can do only an itty bitty things to help but it’s not enough, and it can crush you if you’re alone. I would’ve end in hospital or in prison two years ago if there wasn’t a friend that shared all this with me. And they had each other. That's the bond that stronger than any romantic love)

Next three flashback are not about helping anyone (although let’s remember that Arragemet wasn’t some noble plan, it was about two lazy cowokers finding a way to do less work and hang out more! it’s important too! they’re lazy and selfish and want to live in forever vacation, which is mood). Then our favorite Bastillie scene — now they both watch the executioner being dragged to be killed. No one of them did something to stop it, although they could’ve, you know, just leave him there naked or something. Because nah, sometimes they both just don't care (and I want to point it too: kindness, when you do it correctly, shouldn't be only to nice people you like. Sometime you help a nasty person. Or your abusive ex-boss. But also sometime you're there for the date and you don't want to be kind to some dumb human that's so happy to kill others)

Edinburg? Yep. Crowley loves Elspbeth immediatly, because she’s doing something naughty, she’s cheeky and she makes Aziraphale fret. So he helps her… to dig the body. Which is fine, again, he finds it all amusing and he’s not concerned for this girl safety or livehood. He’s in good mood and he wants to party and maybe theoretically discuss God’s cruelty with his angel. But Aziraphale sees the nice poor girl that made choices that can cost her ethernity in afterlife, and he tries to help! And look, he's not saying she just should drop everything and pray, he's actually trying to brainshtorm what she can do insted of evil naughty thins! As living human that needs to eat! Like, he’s there asking absolutely normal questions for someone who didn’t get accustomed to industrialisation and early stage capitalism yet (he’s slow, ok, although I’m mad because remember that this dialog was in book? and it was a thousand years earlier? and it was a Crowley who took a whole year to understant that it’s unfair while Aziraphale knew this and was like, well, it’s party line, what are you expected? why they shifted context so much). In the world where no one was killed Crowley would help her with body and go back to drinking or something, lefting her to dig another body next evening and live like this forever. But Aziraphale’s the one that wants to change that!! Go through episode, read the lines, look at their faces without being attached to fanon Jesus-like Crowley and you’ll see the one being that knows that the system is fucked and doing nothing to change it and the other not understanding system wholly but being willing to bend the rules and eventually risk his life to help — and I want to point it hard — NOT innocent human! She’s a street rat, she’s a grave robber (and Crowley understands why it’s bad more than Aziraphale, until the «it’s different when it’s someone you know» moment, but still he was in favor of digging bodies), she’s not deserving of help by heaven’s standarts, and still Aziraphale’s willing to risk falling, again, for her and her human lover! (THAT'S foreshadowing much, huh? HUH?) And that’s when Crowley understands: oh, shit, it’s not funny for him! It’s not just a lesson on morality! He’s really really can get punished if he do something stupid now!

Remember that second point of season was «stop messing with humans please»? That’s where it’s started, arguably.

So, like, yes, Crowley obliviously wasn’t planning to save Elpsbeth in any way until Aziraphale was willig to do it first. And why you need it to be different? We already know that Crowley’s nice deep inside. He doesn’t do anything bad there, even. It’s not a slander to his character. There’s billions of humans he — or Aziraphale — doesn’t help every day. Crowley accustomed to this, that’s the point. But then Aziraphale’s doing something risky (again, that’s his whole deal: sword, this scene, ditching his platoon and diving on earth, the nimb bomb — all done [or almost done] in defiance of heavens and for the humanity, all by his own, without Crowley’s influence! You don’t need to take this from him and stuff good qualities into Crowley until he’s absolutely flattens, Aziraphale doing something good is not stealing goodness from Crowley!).

Also remember 1941? The ones where Aziraphale wants to take down the nazi spies while Crowley smuggles alcohol? It’s the same pattern! Crowley don’t want to be mistaken for nazi (so he changes his shirt), but he’s not involved in any anti-nazi work (we talks about canon there, you can have headcanons, I sure do). It’s Aziraphale who jumps on chance to do good, again, and Crowley, again, deals with nazi only when they are the treat to Aziraphale. WHICH IS FINE. It doesen’t makes him bad. It shows that he loves his comfortable life and a little of mischieve, while Aziraphale loves his comfortable life and a little of doing good. It’s important that in this scene there’s no visible, like, innocent kid being harmed right now — I’m sure Crowley would’ve go out of his way to help then. But Aziraphale get’s tangled with some spies and suppliers, they doing nazi work indirectly — you need to think strategically to understand why you should help there, which Aziraphale clearly does. It also shows that he willing to work on changing things and not passively wait (or sleep) untill bad times go away, when he gets a chance to do it without miracles (as we saw in Edinburg minisode, he’s afraid that too many miracles or too big miracle used to help wrong people will put him in trouble). Which arguably foreshadows final fifteen again, but it's not the point of this post.

I can go next scene by scene but whatever, I’ll just remind you that’s while stopping the apocalypce was Crowley's idea, he:

— wasn’t concerned for the humans, at least at the start — he was mostly concerned for his earthly life, as much as Aziraphale, which includes humans, but not in oh-I-want-to-save-them way. Which is good! All first season is about how being a little bit egoistical and thinks about yourself can motivate you to change the world because it's YOUR world too!

— was actually working toward apocalypse and looking forward to it, until Antichrist came and he suddenly get that it will happen, like, for real (that’s literally said by word of God, remember?)

— and also, Aziraphale wasn’t opposed to idea of stopping apocalypse, he was sure that there’s no way to stop it and all that they can do is to hope that heavens will win (at least there’s no torture in heavens!… probably)

Like, it wasn’t Crowley explaining to Aziraphale that «apocalypse bad, heavens bad», it was him TEMPTING Aziraphale to give in to urge to stop apocalypse because he loves his earthly life as much as Crowley!!

Anyway, my point is — fandom loves black and white thinking. One should always be right, let’s make another one always wrong. One should always be heroic, let’s make other one villian or damsel in distress. That’s not how it work in real life, that’s not how it work in Good Omens, and Good Omens actually would’ve be really bland if it was the case. Aziraphale changes Crowley as much as he changes Aziraphale, but as everything Aziraphale do, it’s much more subtle. And they both get changed by humanity! (remember, again, the doctor from Edinburg? He sure was an eye-opener for them both)

Another thing, I think, is that people doesen’t want to step into Aziraphale’s shoes. Why would you do it, when there’s Crowley, who’s always right? It’s much more pleasant to be right, and Aziraphale’s always so unsure and his growth is not linear and sometimes he’s even says bad things! Nah, easier to not think from his perspective at all, and easier to not symphatise with him, just patronize at best, to make Crowley a better person for being willing to teach him too (which honestly makes azicrowley looks a little creepy, but you do you, just not in front of my salad please). So people that projects into Crowley, already the ones that unwilling to be not right or not good or not the most hurt party in every fight (again, it's understandble! but really narrows your perspective), gets really uncomfortable if you points that their characterisation of Crowley is not always in line with canon, because a) that makes him wrong or not-perfect sometimes and b) it makes THEM wrong or not-perfect sometimes.

Again, it’s not me picking a fight, and it’s fine if you have another interpretations of anything we saw on screen or any different headcanons. But try to look at what I said not from the point of hostility and character slander but from the point of love, because I LOVE them so much and I love them BECAUSE they both are painted in shades of gray! You don't need to mold Crowley into absolutely different character to love him! Imperfection is fine and good!

#good omes #meta I guess?#sorry my english is bad and my meta writing skills are even worse #but I saw this ask and get exited #'why are you kin Aziraphale' they ask #because I too always think that if only we all could have a nice chat over the cup of tea we sure would've came to understanding #(that was a joke I'm a not a kinnie I'm too old to even fully gasp what's that means)

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actual-changeling · 5 months

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have you ever made a post about why you ship Crowley and Aziraphale? i really don’t mean to be rude or anything, but if you think that Aziraphale actually doesn’t even care about the possibility of Crowley being punished by hell, then certainly Crowley is better off without him?

The thing is that pretty much all of that boils down to a fundamental lack of understanding. Aziraphale has no real concept of hell—or how angels and demons actually work. We have to remember that not only has he no first-hand experience with the fall, he has also been away from heaven for millennia.

Aziraphale cares about Crowley, he loves him so much it makes him stupid sometimes, but you can love someone and still not be capable of having a healthy relationship with them. It requires growth both individually and together, and there's a lot of hurdles Aziraphale needs to jump over before they can fully reconcile.

Even once they do, their relationship will never be the way it was before the final fifteen. All wounds will eventually heal, but deep ones leave scars behind, and you carry those on your skin forever.

Love is a feeling, it's a choice. You can have a wonderful relationship with someone without loving them and an absolutely horrendous one while loving them; love is not the deciding factor here.

It's about commitment and putting in the work. It's about not being afraid of being uncomfortable and terrified and questioning yourself—because that's what is holding Aziraphale back. He is terrified of questioning heaven and everything he believes because it will mean questioning his sense of self.

If "angel" as a term is meaningless, what does that make him? Who is Aziraphale when he is not heaven's good little soldier? Who is he when 'doing good' is no longer his main goal? What kind of life does he want when heaven is no longer an option?

What is going to happen to his and Crowley's relationship once they break out of their pattern?

Aziraphale cares, he cares so much, but he is terrified, and fear makes you desperate. The good news is they can grow, they can work on it, they can build a healthy, mutually beneficial relationship.

It's just going to be hard, hard work.

#alex talks good omens #good omens #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #good omens season 2 #go2 #aziracrow #crowley x aziraphale #ineffable divorce

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love-has-a-way-ofgrowingbackward · 7 months

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look guys there's something weird as HELL going on with aziraphale. all three minisodes we saw gave us an insight on how his brain works and his beliefs and everything and how it leads to him making the choices he's made. right.

crowley said something weird has been going on before the attack and we know he has a sixth sense for these things but WHAT IS IT.

i think i REALLY REALLY THINK there's going to be flashbacks to season 2 scenes in s3 and we'll get context and ohhh moments. like.

1. at the mystic shop crowley puts his cap on a snake. maybe just a sneaky nod to how he was wearing a cap but maybe something more?

2. i think the way metatron says "how predictable" and when he says "are you going to take it" so deliberately. they're huge huge clues i think. i feel like the metabitch knows something i dont which pisses me off.

3. i dont understand why the job scene was shot a little different to other ones and also why crowley and aziraphale sounded so different from the scene chronologically before and after that we see in s1. except maybe the seaside bit the whole thing was. definitely odd. and its also mentioned again and again and again. biggest question i have and also one of the biggest foreshadowing in the show is the job quote from the matchbox. what is that WHY IS THAT.

will we realise parts of the job scene were fake or left out and see in s3 how the line was relevant.

4. WHAT does metatron want from aziraphale sooo badly that he went to the trouble of going through his entire earth file and carefully construct manipulation plans a through to z to convince aziraphale to come up.

unless he was unnerved that they together blocked gabriel from him and left him in the dark while actively trying not to do something powerful and he wants armageddon 2 so he can destroy earth because he's the bad guy. and he cant even feasibly start on that as long as aziraphale and crowley are together/friends/as long as, metaphorically, the bookshop is theirs.

(the bookshop wasn't 'theirs' by the time crowley left i think. they'd sort of mentally given up on that which is why at the end muriel could enter without permission i think. if the south downs thing ends up being canon then maybe the bookshop will be destroyed for real because otherwise at the end they would end up at the bookshop)

5. look one of the most terrible thing in the whole ep6 was aziraphale not paying any attention to crowley in the beginning of the confession. he's really really flustered and there's a heartwrenching theme of him staring out of the window. he's absolutely terrified of the metatron seeing them and half his mind is on him.

aaaaaghhhh losing my fucking mind. you could almost hear the quote about the straightforward love life when crowley looks at nina and maggie. that feels like a conclusion kind of? like a really happy ending just like beelzebub and gabriel had. they're both good and loved. which is why i dont feel like we'll be seeing them majorly again... maybe we will i hope we will but idk. there's.

season 2 was soft gentle romantic definitely but it was also a sherlock holmes level of mystery. except we're at the start of the story when holmes doesn't get all the facts to solve the mystery.

also random not plot related questions.

why does the sandwich woman blink so much in the seamstress scene and why does aziraphale blink so little during the last lift scene. these probably dont mean anything other than the womans mascara got in her eye or something

how does the bentley play classical music which doesnt change for aziraphale but doesn't do that for crowley? is it love i hope its love

why does aziraphale's face do something odd when he leaves crowley to talk to nina ep5? or am i reading too much into it? he was very forthcoming with the rest but with nina he was sort of quiet (?) and reserved and went away looking uncomfortable.

why did aziraphale want so badly to drive crowleys car? was it meaningful or connecting to him? i know a lot of people say the dont hesitate to ask me any questions about love scene was aziraphale giving crowley horny eyes but i thought he seemed itching and really eager to get the keys? why does he want them sooo desperately. i don't fully understand their relationship which makes me WANT TO. what happens to a person when they spend six thousand years with their only friend and companion being a hereditary enemy, watching every single thing they do?

also why was he willing to give away a book and bribe out a book for the meeting? seems overboard for someone who doesn't really seem to think about heaven checking on nina and maggie. i think tbh it had less to do with heaven's suspicions than aziraphale being the kind of person who would love an excuse to host a night of dancing and food and love (mood) and he even got to participate by dancing with the demon he loves instead of just watching! (though i suspect he really likes that as well). hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

guys the brain rot has set in someone tell me im not imagining things

#i dont expect these questions to be answered before s3 tbh #but in the words of a certain red haired demon #but just to be able to ask the question #anyway #this'll probably be ignored by other people but its nice to keep all my thoughts about the show in one place instead of just my head #gonna add on later if i feel like it #good omens #crowley #aziraphale

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thesherrinfordfacility · 8 months

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I would like to know how Neil's interpretation of a scene he didn't write as not being a sex metaphor somehow means he's suddenly decided Aziracrow aren't in love. With how much the Good Omens fandom insists that all headcanons are valid, why does Neil sharing his for one scene suddenly mean he needs to be tricked and bullied into having Crowley and Aziraphale kiss or be otherwise romantic?

Is it because he said a dramatic last ditch attempt at communication in the form of a completely non-sexy kiss is just that? He didn't say it wasn't a romantic kiss, he said it was a non-sexual kiss. He said, to him, the oxrib scene was not a sexual metaphor. He has not said, anywhere, that Aziraphale and Crowley are not romantically in love.

Neil does not need to be bullied or tricked by Michael and David or anyone else to make Crowley and Aziraphale be and show they are in love. He's doing a remarkable job of making them that way all on his own.

hi anon!!!✨ okay, so ive pondered over this ask, and i can't quite parse out from the tone if you might be generally asking/ranting, or if you believe that im - put simply - anti-neil in this whole discourse fiasco? because if it's the latter, i'll happily share my personal thoughts on the matter as to why that is definitely not the case. initially, just to support my point, take a look at my tags on this and this post, because that will give you a little flavour as to my opinion.

essentially, i completely agree with you. first, for full disclosure - i know that there have been quite a few comments that neil has made (in interviews, tweets etc) over the years that have fed into this discourse that i do not have receipts for; so anyone that wants me to take these into account, please feel free to send me them.

okay, now i'll try and summarise my thoughts on this (and some may repeat points you have very rightly - imo - already made):

good omens, and in particular the show, is very diverse, and inclusive. it is a triumph in this respect. specifically, i think aziraphale and crowley's story has been written very cleverly and quite sensitively to provide or reflect representation for a wide array of sexualities, gender identifications, and in general queer experiences.

my second main thought is that there is a difference between author/writer original intent, author/writer interpretation of their own work (retrospectively, as a consumer or critic in their own right), and audience interpretation. none of them have to perish for others to exist; they can exist together, even if they can conflict each other in their conclusion/s. the best stories imo are those that can be read multiple ways.

the ox-scene in ep2 (and im also going to lump 40s minisode in this too... plus multiple other specific Acting Choices throughout the season) can be interpreted sexually. i don't think there are two ways about it, it definitely can. it may not be the author's intent (bearing in mind, whilst likely overseen by neil, ACtO was written by john) to write it sexually, but the direction/acting choices are, i think, undeniably sexual in subtext and tone.

that being said, whether or not this is what the writers had in mind when writing the episode (and im not saying they absolutely did, im not psychic), the literal written narrative is not sexual at all. it's crowley tempting aziraphale into eating, an earthly pleasure that we know aziraphale later enjoys. it is therefore perfectly reasonable for some people, i imagine particularly those that are aspec, to read this scene non-sexually. whether metaphorical for sex or just a complete mukbang on aziraphale's part, i read it as an uncomfortable, intimate, eldritch-like scene. all interpretations are correct, and none are wrong. it caters for many.

the kiss scene is, to my mind, not particularly romantic, and it's certainly not sexual. crowley meant it out of love, no doubt, and hand-in-hand with that love, out of desperation and as an 'everything else has failed' way of communicating. i personally read it as a temptation, as something desperate but almost on the cusp of being possessive and cruel - thats my personal opinion/interpretation. i'll be completely honest, i don't personally see how anyone can possibly read this scene as sexual (imo kisses are not and should not be gatekept by those that are sex-inclined), but where someone does, id be happy to learn why, to try to understand that interpretation. the romantic element is a little more questionable - technically speaking, yes, it probably is romantic, and i do understand how/why people read it as that, but for me it isn't.

the story in totality is however, to my mind, romantic; in my opinion, there is love of the romantic kind between aziraphale and crowley. furthermore, neil has stated that that is the writer's intent; he intends for it to be romantic.

taking the writer intent out of the equation however, for a moment, admittedly i think their story even throughout s2 could be seen as very lovingly platonic, right up until the kiss. but even then - as I said before - the kiss for me doesn't read as completely romantic. i think one could argue that crowley just simply saw it as something he could do because 'humans do it!'. the script itself doesn't confirm outright it is romantic - it strongly alludes to it, sure, but there has been no indisputable declaration of romantic love. therefore (whilst, again, i do not personally think this to be the case - i do see romantic love here) it is entirely possible to interpret the narrative, text and subtext, in completely different ways and those interpretations still be valid.

where the story, and their relationship itself, goes and concludes is unknown. they could have multiple kisses of the romantic variety in s3, or they may never kiss again. they could just hug, or hold hands. they could have a full-on sex scene, or potentially have a scene that could be interpreted as leading to one. they could even have a conversation about being willing to try sex, another human experience, but agree that if neither of them like it, they don't do it again (but will still love each other), and the conclusion is left purposefully ambiguous. there may be a love confession, an outright declaration, or something could be said in a subtle way such that can be interpreted as both platonic and romantic.

i agree that neil doesn't need to be bullied by anyone into writing the story he's going to write... there will however be jokes about it, mainly from the hyperbolic perspective of michael being quite vocal that he too sees aziraphale as being in love with crowley. michael has admitted (jokingly? professional research?) to reading fanfiction that helped inform him on this personal confirmation, and this may have informed him on his acting. there are some of us that joke about the 'feral-ness that is michael in being hellbent on getting a sex scene' etc., and i know some have taken that joke further in saying that michael should essentially campaign for one, but i think we can all safely say that neil will write what he writes, and michael will continue to play aziraphale absolutely perfectly, and according to the script and direction offered to him. they are professionals, colleagues, and im fairly certain are definitely friends; the jokes are jokes (on this blog at least, anyway).

final point; i think neil has a fairly difficult task - whether he actively pays a deliberate mind to this or not, or it just comes naturally - in continuing to write a story that can be representative of everyone. he has his intent, sure, and his later own interpretation, but he has provided something amazing; characters and a story that is supernatural in setting, but entirely human in nature. that can speak to so many people, of so many different walks of life. that everyone can see a bit of themselves in these characters, can recognise parts of them in their own spirit. sees them go through decisions and experiences and joy and pain that each of us have at some point probably encountered ourselves.

that balancing act - again, whether he purposefully does pay this any mind or not - cannot be easy. i do not personally see him as homophobic for what he said in that tweet. i do not personally think he has queerbaited, or led anyone on to think that the characters/narrative is something that it's not. that's my opinion, and i fully respect that others will have theirs (and id be happy to hear them!), but i think he is respectful that people will have their individual interpretations, and leave it at that. he may even agree with some of them - he has said that he has liked metas etc based on merit and effort, out of respect too i imagine, but not necessarily as a veritable stamp of approval that the post agrees outright with his original intent or personal interpretation.

in any case - why would he agree to one interpretation if that could mean that that could upset someone else with a different one? that's not fair on anyone, so i think it's more than fair that he sticks to confirming what he intended in what he wrote, and not comment on how it should be interpreted. its because of this - brass tacks time - that i think any questions about interpretation should be kept out of his askbox... sure, ask about what is literally in the script, or what physically happens on screen, or background 'canon' info, but don't ask him for how you should interpret it, because i think it's fair to say he is only ever going to give back his original intention, or how he personally interprets it.

that doesn't automatically mean that he thinks any other interpretation is ridiculous or inaccurate, or not valid; everyone else's interpretation can exist at the same time too. he might disagree privately, but that's up to him - same as the rest of us✨

#anon again im not sure if you thought that i was gettkng shitty about neil but i hope that if you did this ask clarifies #and by god do i hope this rambling mess makes sense #do i need to state that for legal reasons this is my opinion only and not reflective blah blah blah? if so well there you go #opinions stated are - unfortunately - entirely my own #good omens #ask #do i dare tag mr man #nah probably best if i didnt

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edosianorchids901 · 1 year

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I Don't Hate You

@flashfictionfridayofficial prompt - "Didn't mean it"

Oh, he’s not my friend. We’ve never met before. We don’t know each other.

The words raced in laps around Aziraphale’s mind, seeming to charge forward with increasing vigor each time they repeated. Like predators, perhaps, speeding up to overcome his every desperate attempt to flee from them.

“Crowley knows perfectly well that it’s nothing personal,” he said to the empty room as he packed his belongings for the long ride to Edinburgh. “He’s well aware of the need for secrecy in such a relationship. Or, no, not relationship. Acquaintance…ship?”

Oh Lord. He was being absurd by fretting so much about this, about the choice of words when he was all by himself. Alone, there was no need to be so very cautious.

And yet, best not to get in the habit of things that could easily get them both killed.

“It’s not as though he seemed distressed by my comment. He was grinning after,” Aziraphale said to the spare cloak, tucking it in his bag. “If he was upset with me, he certainly wouldn’t have given me such a wonderful present. Making Hamlet popular is hardly the act of one stricken by rejection.”

The thoughts seemed to circle even faster now. He sighed, trying to ignore the trembling in his hands.

“Besides. It’s all to keep him safe. He must be used to it by now,” Aziraphale said to the stack of three books as he stashed them with the cloak. “Why, I’ve said that we’re not friends so many times that he probably thinks I absolutely despise him!”

Aziraphale froze, another book in hand. He stared at the wall for a moment, at his tapestry of the Garden. At the angel high above, and the Serpent slithering through the grass.

Then he slammed down the book, twisted around, and rushed out of his room.

It wasn’t a long walk from his place to Crowley’s, and he covered it in quick pattering strides. But no matter how fast he walked, it wasn’t fast enough to outrun the memory of what he’d said to the only being who had ever truly cared about him.

He knocked once on Crowley’s door, then simply miracled it open and stepped inside. Crowley had been leaning back in a chair with a cup of wine in one hand, sunglasses off, but he straightened at once. “Angel? You all right?”

“I don’t hate you!” Aziraphale blurted.

Crowley stared at him, wide eyed. “Er. That’s good.”

“No, I mean…” Lost, Aziraphale flapped his hands in the air. “I didn’t mean it.”

“You didn’t mean you don’t hate me?” Crowley asked slowly.

“No! I don’t mean that I didn’t mean that I don’t hate … that is to say… I have met you!” Oh, he was making such a mess of this. “I’ve met you, we do know each other.”

“Yes, Aziraphale. We know each other.” Looking increasingly concerned, Crowley set his wine down and rose. He crossed the room and touched Aziraphale’s arm, giving a little sympathetic pout. “Did you hit your head?”

“No, I haven’t hit my head! I mean that I don’t hate you!” Aziraphale could hardly breathe now, increasingly agitated. Oh, oh, why couldn’t he figure out how to explain this in a way that made sense? “But the thing is… We’re supposed to be enemies and if I admit it I could get you killed and I’d never be able to forgive myself if—”

“Angel, angel, shhhh.” Suddenly, Crowley’s hand was cradling his cheek, and Aziraphale forgot everything else he meant to say. He sank into the touch, eyes closing. “Slow down. S’ okay. Don’t freak out, all right? Whatever’s wrong, we’ll figure it out. Lend a hand, remember?”

“Yes, that’s… that’s what I meant. We help each other.” Tears welled in Aziraphale’s eyes as Crowley’s thumb stroked across his cheek, a tender brush. “What I said at the Globe is what I didn’t mean.”

“Ohh,” Crowley said softly. “Okay. I get it. Aziraphale, seriously, you don’t need to tell me that we’re friends.”

Startled, Aziraphale opened his eyes. “I don’t?”

“No, ‘course not. We’ve been friends for what, five and a half thousand years, give or take a century?” A bright grin spread across Crowley’s face again, his eyes soft with affection. “What you said earlier was you trying to keep me safe. You’re always trying to keep me safe.”

“Oh…” Still tearing up, Aziraphale risked mirroring Crowley’s gesture. He cradled the sharp angles of Crowley’s jaw and cheek, gazing into the golden eyes that somehow went even softer. “You marvelous old serpent. Here I was, panicking that you’d think I despised you…”

“You don’t have to worry about that.” Crowley closed his eyes and leaned forward, gently touching his brow to Aziraphale’s. “You don’t have to worry about anything, angel. S’ all right.”

Aziraphale let his own eyes close now, tingling pleasure spreading through him at the sweet contact. His breaths slowed as they stood together, and the racing thoughts finally calmed. He did have many, many things to worry about. But at least now, he knew that the strength of his friendship with Crowley was not one of them.

#good omens #ineffable husbands #aziraphale #crowley

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ineffable-suffering · 8 months

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Aziraphale, I love you. But you lied. And here's why.

Okay. I’m not gonna beat around the bush for too long. It’s time now for me to also throw my try at a personal Good Omens Season 2 Magnum Opus into the mix of already existing magnum op..i? Opusses? (Smited? Smote?)

If I’m honest, it isn’t fully my own magnum opus, as I read this meta not too long ago that made me go: „Oh! My God! That’s it!“ And I’m pretty sure a lot of other people have clocked this too by now. Of course I’m not saying it’s the objective truth but after having mulled it over for many endless nights and days, wading through the onslaught of coffee theories, body swap theories, The Metatron re-writing the Book of Life theories and many, many more, this is the one I think is most plausible and, if you look closely, most obvious.

And it goes as such: Aziraphale lied.

To all of us. All of them. And most of all, to Crowley. He lied to him. Well, he sort of did and also sort of didn’t. He certainly didn’t tell the truth. At least not all of it. I hear you ask: “OP, what the fuck are you talking about”. I answer you: Let’s start from the top and under the cut.

(Small note: this meta ended up being way too large for Tumblr, which is why I will redirect you to an external doc at the end of the post, where I have written it all down nicely and accurately. It's about 35 digital A4-pages long, just in case you want to save it for later.)

(Word count: 12.831 | Approximate reading time: 50 minutes)

Let’s start with a short recap of what happens before the Metatron crashes the bookshop party and everything goes to shit. The proper visuals for this are in my Tumblr post but I am absolutely convinced that right up until when the Metatron comes to take Aziraphale away and talk to him, the angel is fully ready to get into Crowley’s Bentley-chariot and finally ride off into the sunset (or Alpha Centauri-set or whatever). You can see it in his face and body language. You can see when the penny drops for him that a) Crowley loves him b) he loves Crowley and c) they can finally start their happily ever after. Aziraphale realizes this all throughout said Brielzebub reveal in the bookshop. And he’s such a lost cause once he does.

I mean, look at that. Look at it. This (very shitty recording, sorry, I'm not tech-savvy enough to avoid the Amazon Prime screen recording blocker) is the very second Aziraphale realizes hat Crowley loves him. When he hears him suggest Alpha bloody Centauri as a getaway for Gabriel and Beelzebub, as Crowley has done to Aziraphale for so, so many times now. He finally understands what Crowley was trying to tell him with that all those times.

Aziraphale realizes this all throughout the Brielzebub reveal in the bookshop. And he’s such a lost cause once he does.

Right when Crowley suggest Alpha Centauri as a nice getaway spot to the two, Aziraphale looks at him and he gets it. That Crowley has loved him, has been loving him for millennia. Truthfully, they've both known that for a long while now. But there's a difference between knowing, wanting, craving and actually being able to finally have something. And that's exactly what we see on Aziraphale's face here. This is it. This is where it all starts working out for Crowley and him. This is were they can start their eternity together.

So from that second on, Aziraphale only has eyes for Crowley. He keeps physically pawing at Crowley with complete heart eyes, as if to say „Look, look, that’s gonna be us too! Finally!" He’s actually so smitten that he doesn’t even hear what Crowley is saying when he asks Shax if he can have back his apartment now because he’s sick of living in his car. (Also, what way to drop that bomb right in this moment Crowley, lmao).

Once the Metatron comes in, the first thing Aziraphale says is that they don’t need to talk because „he’s made his position quite clear“. He doesn’t even want to talk to the Metatron, because in his mind, he’s already made the choice. Actually, he made the choice way before the bookshop showdown. For starters, I’m convinced that the Jane Austen Ball actually never was for Maggie and Nina but for Crowley and him (you can read more about that here). And apart from that, for this whole season we have seen Aziraphale trying to advance his relationship with Crowley romantically and domestically and move them to the literal next base (our car!). And after everything he just witnessed with Brielzebub, the final nail in the coffin of ethereal-infernal romance being possible, his choice is absolutely crystal clear: It’s Crowley. It’s always been Crowley and it always will be Crowley. And now it can be Crowley. They can be an us.

The whole of Season 2 is such a massive learning curve for Aziraphale’s character, with him remembering all those important pivotal points of his past, and this very moment is the peak, with him not only understanding that Crowley loves him (because he certainly knew for quite some centuries now) but accepting that love, letting himself have that love, being allowed to want that love and taking that love and starting their new and final chapter with it. Nevertheless, the plot clock ticks for them. The Metatron saunters into the bookshop, evil and stinky as Metatrons do, and urges Aziraphale to come with him with his whole Take The Coffee schtick, which I will get into later. And Aziraphale, immediately sensing there’s Something Up, does. Can’t really turn down someone as high-ranking as the the voice of God, after all. Even if you were currently already planning how you were going to elope with a certain red-haired serpent of Eden.

he next time we see Aziraphale on screen, it’s so painfully evident on his face that he is neither happy nor excited. Not even the slightest bit. We’d know if he was, thanks to Mr. Michael master-of-microexpressions Sheen. None of the usual “Aziraphale is happy”-signs are there. No blinding eye-smile, no giddy wriggling, not giggles and gasps. No, when the Metatron tells Aziraphale to „go tell your friend the good news“, his expression looks like this:

I’m gonna go out on an entire limb here and say: That does not look like someone who’s absolutely tickety-boo hyped to tell his demon soulmate that he just got the juiciest promotion and that they can both be angels and live happily ever after in ethereal eternity now.

This, folks, looks like someone who knows exactly that the news he has to break right now, are going to be tickety-shit awful and very upsetting to said demon soulmate. And already, from that very short snippet of conversation, we can tell that Aziraphale isn’t really given a choice by the Metatron. Because while the Metatron does tell him that he doesn’t have to „answer right away“, he immediately follows it up by: „Go ahead and tell your friend the good news!“ Very distinct and definitive choice of words here. It’s “good news” because it’s already been decided. Because it’s already a done deal. There is no “yes, no, maybe”. This is the only choice he’s giving to Aziraphale. Because it’s ‘Coffee or death’.

And he already gave him the coffee.

***

Tumblr won't let me continue this over a certain character limit and I am not even remotely done yet – so, I feel like this is a good moment to redirect you to the continuation of this insane meta before we're in too deep. You can do so right here!

I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions about this once you've fought your way through it. Hope you have a good time with it!

#good omens #good omens s2 #good omens season 2 #good omens meta #good omens analysis #neil gaiman #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #good omens predictions #i lost my mind writing this #it must be nice to be able to be a casual enjoyer of media #who doesnt spend 5 days writing a 22 page document on an angle and why he lied to his demon boyfriend #my own meta

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randomsufff · 9 months

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No ok but I NEED to just spit out my personal analysis of what the fuck was going on in the last 10 minutes of episode 6 because I’m actually going insane just holding all these THOUGHTS in my brain and have quite literally been thinking of nothing else for the past few days.

Cause we all know what Crowley was saying: I love you, let’s finally acknowledge this THING between us, run away and be together with me, fuck everyone else. Quite literally the same mindset as when the Not-pocalypse was going on.

Now AZIRAPHALE ON THE OTHER HAND…

Ok let’s get into this whole scene from the very beginning shall we… with Metatron sending Aziraphale to break the news to Crowley:

“You don’t have to answer immediately, take all the time you need…Go on and tell your friend the good news”

Ok so this make it seem like Aziraphale haven’t accepted the offer right? With the good news being the offer itself, right? But THEN, (skipping ahead here sorry) after the whole kiss scene the Metatron comes in and says:

“Right, ready to start?”

So it seems like Aziraphale already accepted the position??? And it’s not the Metatron is forcing Aziraphale to make a decision right there and then because everything said after implies he was prepared to leave/ already made his choice. He doesn’t look taken aback or like that question came out of left field when The Metatron asks if he’s ready, he replies with a sound “No” when asked if there’s anything to take with him, and he starts to says “I think I..” when they start to leave, the rest of which I’m sure was going to be “I think I made a mistake” or “I think I want to stay, actually” which, again, SOUNDS LIKE HE MADE HIS DECISION BEFORE HE ENTERED THE SHOP

(Not to mention when Crowley asked: “Tell me you said no…” Aziraphale didn’t say: “I didn’t says yes either”, or “I haven’t told them my answer”, he just remained silent which implies he said yes)

So going back to the first line, we can only assume there was another offer made to Aziraphale, one he maybe didn’t tell Crowley about, and the “Good News” is 1) the offer of making Crowley into an angel and 2) Aziraphale choosing to go to Heaven.

What I’m going insane after is WHAT THE FUCK IS “You don’t have to answer immediately, take all the time you need” REFERRING TO

Ok… now moving on to literally everything else (beware- it is extremely long underneath):

So right after Metatron dismisses Aziraphale, and as Aziraphale walking to the shop, we linger on him and he looks NERVOUS and like, uneasy. There’s not a hint of that huge smile he gives Crowley when he gives his “incredibly good news” Which you might be like, obviously he was nervous, he’s about to break this huge news to Crowley. BUT, counterpoint, if Aziraphale actually thought that what he was about to say was this incredibly great news that Crowley would have absolutely loved to hear, he wouldn’t be nervous, right? He’d be fucking ecstatic from the moment he walked away from The Metatron. So that fact that he ISNT, makes me believe that either Aziraphale himself didn’t like the decision he made or he KNEW that Crowley wouldn’t like what he was about to say, but said it anyways (for what reason, we speculate later)

When he enters the shop, he even gives Maggie and Nina a tense smile. You know, a smile you would give someone passing on the street when you were absolutely stressed out of your mind but didn’t want anyone to see it.

AND THEN, he give this little look that so full of love and a little sigh that’s kind of like a “yes we do have a lot to say” in response to Nina’s “It seems like you two have a lot to talk about”, which just reminds you of how during this ENTIRE SEASON, we see Aziraphale be incredibly openly fond of Crowley. That he is just as smitten for Crowley, since probably before the Beginning. I mean, right after Beelzebub and Gabriel fucked off to space, Aziraphale was STARING at Crowley with such heart eyes that it looked like man’s was about to risk it all after everyone left.

And here’s where I can’t tell weather he’s genuinely excited over the news he’s giving or if he’s just gotten realllyyy good at pretending. He’s constantly looking out the window, to where the Metatron is waiting, at the cafe, and overall very jittery and nervous. And, granted, this could just be him getting excited over the news(for reasons we’ll talk about)- but again, it’s news that seemed to give him a bit of stress.

So then we go onto the flashback of the conversation between the Metatron and Aziraphale. And here’s where I can’t believe people think Aziraphale just ran back to Heaven at the slightest bit of praise because the Metatron point blank tells him, “you’re a leader, you’re honest…I need you to run [these enormous projects], you are just the angel for the job” and Aziraphale doesn’t look happy. He’s stressed and clearly uncomfortable. The Metatron is literally singing his praises about how needed and valued he is and he could not give less of a shit. AZIRAPHALE STRAIGHT UP SAYS “I don’t want to go to Heaven” after alllllllll that. THE ONLY THING that convinces Aziraphale to accept the offer is the presence of Crowley right by his side.

So QUITE LITERALLY Aziraphale accepted the offer BECAUSE of Crowley, and that is the lenses I will be looking through his dialogue with from now on.

“You could come back to Heaven and… everything, like the old times, only even nicer.” I think the “everything” part of this sentence is talking about everything Pre-Fall Crowley had: one who was happy and was beloved by others, one who had quite literally everything they wanted. One who LOVED creating nebulas and had such passion for the beauty of the starts that he complained that the universe isn’t just some “fancy wallpaper”. Someone who wasn’t outcasted for (what he now realizes) such a stupid thing as just asking questions and doubting intentions. And I’m not sure what re-sending (?) would entail, but according to Aziraphale it seems like he would still be himself, just have that official angel status. The “only nicer” referring to how they’ll know each other, how their relationship and history will allow them to truly be together in a way they weren’t, and COULDN’T before.

“Well obviously you said no to Hell, you’re the bad guys. But Heaven. It’s the side of truth, of light, of good.” SIR WHAT THE FUCK??? This line threw me off the most because honestly man what the fuck. Not even a “They’re the bad guys” it’s “YOURE the bad guys”. Unfortunately I feel like this confirms that Aziraphale does still think them as opposing sides. Sure they’re a team, but unlike Crowley who think they’re their own group: a THEM, I think Aziraphale still thinks them as a angel and a demon. I think he’s very aware they are still on “opposing sides”. Sigh… anyways through the Heart Eye lenses I think Aziraphale is referencing how… good Crowley is. Because as much as he protests how nice he ISN’T- he still saves kids, still condemns offing one’s self, care for humans well-being and safety. He’s constantly doing the RIGHT thing, and in Aziraphales eyes that is synonymous with the Heaven he wants/ images, the good guys. He doesn’t belong in Hell so therefore he must belong in Heaven.

(Thinking about that shade of grey scene- and honestly the “you’re just of a bastard to be worth knowing” lines- I feel like Aziraphale DOES, or at least SHOULD, understand that things aren’t black and white. That there is nuance. But since he’s looking at Crowley through Gold Colored glasses, he thinks Crowley is straight up good- nothing else. He’s thinking “well Crowley SAYS he’s not nice but that’s obviously not true, so he’s just lying to save face and he’s really a great person deep down no matter what he says” (which- wow invalidating much Aziraphale, but that’s another convo). All of this just to say I think Aziraphale thinks Crowley deserves angelic status, way more then any other stuffy angel currently up there)

Then Crowley says “When Heaven ends life here on Earth, it’ll be just as dead as if Hell ended it”, and it doesn’t look like Aziraphale disagrees with that statement. Obviously right? Because that was the whole point of season 1. Aziraphale just looks… frozen? Almost kind of realizing that Crowley is very much not taking this as well as he thought? Isn’t hearing what he’s trying to say? I don’t know. Point blank, Aziraphale knows blindly following after Heaven is bad, he knows Heaven, AS IT IS, is bad. He knows that, which directly leads to his “If I’m in charge, I can make a difference.” line

Now AS CROWLEY SPEAKING, Aziraphale almost looks… taken aback? At first? Like, in a, this isn’t how I planned this to go what are you going to do rn way. He narrows his eyes a lot, which makes it look like he’s not so much confused on what Crowley is saying/ doing, but wondering why he’s doing it NOW. (Which kinda confirms they both very well knew what was happening b/w each other and said nothing like the dumb dumbs they are). He also glances at the window- again, at the Metatron. This conversation is very much not how he thought it was going to go, and he starts shaking his head as Crowley verbally rejects both Heaven and Hell. WHAT ARE YOU SHAKING NO AT, MAN? Trying to deny that Crowley is rejecting you? Trying to get him to stop saying blasphemous things about Heaven when The Metatron is right there??? Idk.

But as soon as Crowley says “…Just be an us. You and me, what do you say?” Aziraphale immediately jumps on that, says “Come with me” says they can be an “us” in Heaven, both on the same side, both doing good just as they have always done the in the centuries before. He goes from “I can make a difference” to “WE can make a difference”. THEY BOTH WANT THE SAME THING: TO BE TOGETHER RAHHHH. But most importantly- “we can make a difference”. I think the main point Aziraphale accepted the offer, like many people have speculated, was to make Heaven a place deserving of Crowley. I think he knows by now that the reason why Crowley was cast out of Heaven was incredibly stupid. That Crowley’s curiosity, objections, and connection to humanity make him a better person and angel then he is (I mean some of y’all forget Aziraphale was about to straight up shoot Adam in Season 1, not to mention it being his meddling in Scotland that lead to a young woman dying that night). So to have an opportunity to not only make Heaven acknowledge that casting out Crowley was a MISTAKE, but to possibly change they system so they can create a Heaven that encourages questioning and objection, to create a Heaven that is as ACTUALLY good as it should be, would be a dream.

Of course the “Nothing last forever”. A lot of people attribute this to him talking about material possessions (and it very well could be). But it also feel like Aziraphale was referring to this life they’ve carved out for themselves, this peace. His tone is slightly… pitiful? Sorrowful? Wistful? Perhaps Aziraphale knew realistically there’s no way they could have spent the rest of their centuries in this bookshop, that Heaven and Hell would eventually plan for either the end of them or the world yet again, put in motion what they think is inevitable.

Again, everything said after this has an emphasis on being TOGETHER. Then after Crowley refuses to respond or even look at him: “I don’t think you understand what I’m offering you”, which is clearly said in a angry, last ditch effort for Crowley to say something. Aziraphale is visibly frustrated while he says this line and he probably thinks he’s offering Crowley safety (wether that’s true or not remains to be seen) and everything he DESERVES.

Finally a passive aggressive “Then there’s nothing more to be said”. But, (as many others pointed out) dudes just as devastated as Crowley, is just as rejected.

The kiss? Not unwanted like some might say. I think it’s pretty established Aziraphales gone for the dude, and he definitely could have pulled away anytime. I mean, the reason it probably lasted so long is cause neither of them wanted it to end. Dude was fighting for his life not to reciprocate.

Ahhhh here we are at the elusive “I forgive you” line. As I said before, it’s a way to put himself above the things he as feeling. A way to emotionally run away from the inner turmoil Crowley confession and subsequent kiss created in him

(Quick 12/10 applause for Micheal Sheens acting chops on heartbreak so depressing it gets me feeling just as heartbroken as Aziraphale is :D)

Though shortly after the heartbreak turns into anger and he wipes away the kiss, frustrated in how much more complicated Crowley made things and how he didn’t accept his offer. When The Metatron comes in, Aziraphale immediately turns to wipe his tears and compose himself, putting on a cheery act. He tries to stall, almost calls after him to tell him he made a mistake, but when he turns to look at Crowley waiting out the window and decides to go to Heaven anyways, I can’t say with 100% certainty it’s for good reasons. It almost looks like he does it to SPITE Crowley’s rejection. That IN SPITE of Crowley rejecting his offer, he’s going to PROVE that he can change Heaven to be something worthy of Crowley. Idk, looking closely at his expression, it’s not an expression you make when you decide to nobly sacrifice yourself to the front lines for a loved one, it’s more of a side-eye,I’ll-show-YOU, scorned, lover look. And it’s that same look of- “hm I’ll show HIM” that Aziraphale puts on when following The Metatron.

When The Metatron mentions the next step of the Great Plan, and Aziraphale says “Yes, you mentioned that… can I know what it is?” Now this phrasing interests me because it implies that 1) Aziraphale noticed The Metatron’s mention of “Big Plans” and took note and 2) the light tone and passively asking way of “can I know what it is” vs something demanding like “and, what exactly are these plans?” makes me think he is very much aware of the precarious position he is in and how carful he has to be to keep his standing with Heaven and The Metatron light and friendly. He knows what he’s facing, he just thinks the ends (Crowley’s safety and happiness) justifies the means.

THEN, The Metatron mentions needing an angel who familiar with Earth, and seems to genuinely smile at that. I mean, I don’t think Crowley ever mentioned that Heaven was planning for a second Apocalypse, as there really was no time for discussion after Crowley came down from Upstairs. (Which really, they I hope they talk about that next season cause wtf Crowley) So I think this smile from Aziraphale is him thinking Heaven is finally going to work with and acknowledge the good of humanity.

Of course that is immediately crushed when The Metatron says “the Second Coming” and we can very clearly see how distressed Aziraphale is over the idea. And that dramatic musical cue too, as Aziraphale looks off in horror for a second. I think it HERE at this point, he decided to go to Heaven to learn more about this “Second Coming” to prevent it. He smiles disarmingly at The Metatron and quickly tries to pull himself together after this revelation and new goal. But before leaving realizes there’s no way he can contact Crowley about this, not anymore. Aziraphale is about to go somewhere Crowley can’t follow, to a place where Crowley can’t swoop in and save him if he massively fucks up. He’ll have to face the consequences of his actions directly.

He takes a breath before stepping in, one that feels like one would take before charging head first into battle, and it sort of feels like he’s convincing himself he’s making a choice that’ll benefit the greater good or something as he goes up.

(I’d also like the note The Metatron letting out a breath as soon as the door close, like he wasn’t sure that Aziraphale was going to completely follow him. I think he definitely planned this all to separate them due to how powerful and how unpredictable they are now that a second apocalypse is approaching)

SO WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN????

I don’t know man, I. don’t. KNOW. Was Aziraphale faking all that giddiness in a last ditch effort to try and convince Crowley to accept an offer he knew he would refuse? Was he actually happy about the deal? Ok- the two theories I came up after alllll this that make the most sense are these:

1) He took the deal in order to reform Heaven to be a place worthy of Crowley/ to keep them safe etc., even though he knew Crowley wouldn’t like or approve of it. Crowley confessing threw off his whole explanation and he never got to fully explain this in the way he wanted. The kiss only complicated this decision further but ultimately still decided to go through with it because he genuinely believes he can fix the broken system to be what it’s SUPPOSED to be . Only after learning of the Second Coming does he decide he can also attempt to stop that, or at least gather as much info on it as he can and run if he fails.

2) He took the Heaven deal to double cross them from the start. He realized what The Metatron was trying to do and accepted to get first hand info/ snoop around Heaven easily. He argued what he lowkey believed to be true in order to convincingly fight with Crowley since The Metatron was watching them through the window across the street, and was trying to get Crowley to either subtly understand what he was doing or to get him as far from his as possible for his own safety. Unfortunately Crowley’s kiss and confession mucked that up and he never got to clarify his decision. He’s either frustrated that Crowley never let him explain and stormed off or is mad Crowley would ever believe Aziraphale would truly abandon him and decides to continue on with his plan to double cross since it’s for the good of humanity- THEIR side. Learning of the Second Coming only solidifies his resolve to learn more.

AND- if there really was a second offer The Metatron made like the beginning dialogue suggests. Perhaps the first of the two was a deal or passive threat Aziraphale couldn’t refuse. It was something that alluded Aziraphale should watch out and keep on his toes, something that would be easier to monitor if he was in Heaven.

#good omens #good omens 2 #good omens 2 spoilers #good omens spoilers #aziraphale #crowley #ineffable husbands #I’m in my crazy analyst mode #I feel like I’m actually going to explode I can’t handle these two #and their miscommunication issues #good omens theories

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goldinavonlea · 9 months

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still articulating my unreasonably long post on why ‘I forgive you’ was the most deliciously gut-wrenching response Aziraphale could have given in that moment but in the mean time, when God was speaking to Job both Crowley and Aziraphale were absolutely astonished. Aziraphale comments that he doesn’t suppose Job is getting any answers out of the conversation (and his tone there i will come back to in another post but that’s a separate thing), and Crowley says ‘No, but just to be able to ask the question…’

The Metatron, who is—as a brief aside from critical analysis into blatant personal opinion—creepy as all fuck, remembers Crowley from before the Fall, and comments on his always having had a fierce tendency towards independence and asking ‘damn fool questions’.

It’s funny because I’d always been operating under the assumption that God, being ineffable etc etc, never actually interacted directly with the angels—that most of them had never seen or spoken to her at all, which is obviously supported now in-show by Crowley and Aziraphale’s response to the Job conversation, and indeed the general existence of the Metatron at all. But I’d never thought about it in the context of how Crowley fell—I’d sort of vaguely assumed it was one of his yelling at the sky deals, and that it had been God directly who cut Crowley off from the Host. But. That comment from the Metatron, plus the scene from before the beginning making it very clear that Crowley fully intended to take his questions and comments as high as he could out of a genuine desire to be helpful and the total faith that he wasn’t doing anything wrong he could get in trouble for… Crowley’s Shouting At God are very much framed as an outpouring of frustration, made in the context of him knowing there’s absolutely no way he’s going to get a response or be listened to, that it’s futile. Pre-Fall Crowley had no reason to believe that and clearly didn’t—he just thought he’d stroll into the boss’ office, point out the flaws in only running a universe for 6000 years and how that would fuck with his stars, likely be given a head pat for his good thinking, and then get back to work. But clearly it didn’t happen that way, because why that response to Job if Crowley himself had ever been granted the opportunity to pose his doubts to the face of his creator?

At the moment the clear conclusion to me is that the one he ended up actually asking questions of was the Metatron. don’t have enough yet to say whether I reckon he would have had the power to have someone banished from Heaven himself and directly, as in going behind God’s back (and wouldn’t know how to feel about it if they went down that kind of path of ‘Oh no of course God’s good and perfect this mean villainous old man has just been fucking with her plans’, largely because I was thinking how interesting it would be to get more of God as a character, her motivations, and to see whether in-universe the conclusion is that God’s a benevolent parent who needs to let her kids make their own choices even if they get hurt along the way, or that she’s a narcissist baddie who enjoys playing with the lives of her creations like a cat with a mouse; and I’ve decided that the most interesting and in-line with the story’s messages answer would be that God made messy complicated flawed people in her own image, and that like everyone else she tries her best and fucks up a lot along the way), BUT at this moment I’m feeling reasonably convinced that the Metatron was directly involved in Crowley’s fall, which doesn’t necessarily have significant plot implications but Definitely has the room to add some zest emotionally

#anyway i’m obsessed with the conclusion of the secon season i think it was a masterwork #good omens 2 #good omens spoilers #good omens 2 spoilers #go2 spoilers

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a-voltage · 8 months

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Aight, so I finished watching the new Good Omens aaand... I'm not a fan.

That said, for it to provoke so many thoughts in me means that it’s definitely good art BABEY.

I’m not out here to yuck other people's yums, so my full thoughts and spoilers are below the cut.

Maybe part of the reason is that I'd heard people on here getting upset about something that happened to Crowley without actually knowing what. Somehow, I got it into my head that people were upset that Crowley becomes head of a megacorp (Amazon) through shenanigans.

And uh. It’s absolutely Not That.

So, pinch of salt, entirely possible that my dissatisfaction with this season comes down to the fact that I'd primed myself for watching a critique of capitalism and got increasingly confused and distressed when it wasn’t. I’m coming at this from a very surface-level understanding of Christianity. It comes from Christmas movies, Monty Python, and the background radiation of being culturally Christian.

Ok, so enough excuses.

In terms of what’s going on, we've still got the themes of ineffability running through. Even when God speaks to someone, she doesn't provide answers, only more questions.

As an example, there’s a whole thread about a guy named Job. Job is god’s favourite, he is the epitome of good and had a wonderful life. We find out that heaven has sanctioned the murder of his goats, his geese, and his children. If he proves he is still a good person after all of this hardship, he will be rewarded with twice the goats, twice the geese, twice the children.

Just not the original children.

As an aside, it’s also telling that when Crowley talks to Job about this, he is distraught because it must be him that did something wrong, he just doesn’t know what.

Of the collected angels and demons, only Aziraphale and Crowley understand personhood well enough to understand that Job wants his original children back. Giving him twice the number of new ones isn’t an even trade. The show uses this to tell us that even the side of 'good' are equally capable of causing suffering when they apply a black and white system of morality to the messiness of human life. And, you know, don’t treat humans as people with their own needs and desires.

Additionally, the angels (even Aziraphale) don’t question the authority of God. In the show, Crowley is (mostly) the only one to do so. Someone else made this point, but when Crowley repeatedly insists that he ‘isn’t nice’, it’s because he isn’t making choices to be ‘Good’. He does it because it’s the right thing to do.

(I’ve forgotten who, but if I find the post again, I’ll link because I remember it being a really interesting analysis in its own right).

On a similar note, Aziraphale is shown as having a very rigid black and white morality. Because he thinks he is a good guy, he's more likely to follow along with those norms. Specifically the thing in Scotland where it's pointed out to Aziraphale that people do bad things for good, or at least, understandable reasons.

On paper, it’s 100 percent my jam. I think it's an especially worthy point to make in the current climate where we have the emergence of the alt right and other authoritarian groups. And like. It’s about the dangers of factions that present themselves as ‘the good guys’ whilst leaving no room to question the actions of authority. No matter the group, no matter how well-intentioned, if there is no room to consider how their actions will affect other people as real human beings, then they will cause harm.

Super interesting topics with lots of meat!

So why didn't I like it?

I'm going to quote my favourite rat-grandpa here and say it’s because it committed the cardinal sin of boring me.

My knee-jerk reaction was 'this feels like fanfiction'. The show also had a strong emphasis on the relationships between the characters. As both an avid reader and writer of fanfic, I’m the first to say that isn’t the issue.

They just didn't execute it very well.

A quick recap:

Gabriel turns up at Aziraphale's bookshop naked. He doesn't remember who he is. This is quite distressing to Aziraphale because in the prior season, Gabriel was an antagonistic towards him. Y'know, working to usher in Armageddon and all.

A lot of the interactions felt like the fluffy, wish fulfilment. We have a scene like a ball where Aziraphale and Crowley try and play matchmakers, a callback to the scene of the first season where Crowley shelters Aziraphale under his wing, Gabriel losing his memory and turning into an clueless version of himself. All of this (and the Dr Who references thrown in) give me the sense that the creators lost sight of their original vision when thinking about how fans would react.

There is also an awkward kiss where Crowley confesses his feelings. To me, this felt like this was played more for shock value. Cheap pathos.

There's also a B plot between two new wlw characters, a coffee shop owner and a record store owner who, as best I can tell, are set up as a kind of foil for Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship. Her girlfriend is awful and then they break up. In order to cover up the miracle they did together, Aziraphale tells the angels that it was to help the two fall in love.

They tell the duo to stop meddling in their affairs and talk about their own relationship. It felt heavy-handed. I definitely think it could have been more subtle rather than preachy.

I say this as someone who does read and write fic. Like.

It didn't feel deep? It felt like it was made for the people who enjoy shipping Aziraphale and Crowley. Except that, it felt like also just putting those boys in situations? It didn't feel like it had substance. Or maybe it just didn't resonate with me.

I suppose at least I can be thankful that the gays are accepted enough that we can now get tv shows with the same uninteresting romance plotlines as the straights.

Hurray.

#good omens #analysis #opinion #good omens season 2

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