#i loved reading superman rebirth because of him

[devine-fem]

i am BEGGING you to make that jondami ship guide. not because i need anything to make me ship them more than i already do but because they deserve to have their good moments highlighted

Jondami/Damijon shipping guide.

A collective guide to any cute moment between Jon and Damian in DC comics or motion pictures. Any moment that could make a reader like them more as a ship will be put all here in one Tumblr post.

• Superman (2016) Issues #10-#11

This is the first time they meet each other and they immediately knock heads. Jon’s lighter than life personality clashes with Damian’s cold personality and they don’t seem to get along but you can tell there’s something growing behind the eye rolling and tongue clicking… a friendship?

• Super Sons (2017)

This is the first of the Super Sons series, the series is really short but gold nonetheless. No Super Sons comic that I don’t like but this one is my favorite. They still are knocking heads and refuse to call each other partners but they grow and learn to be heroes together.

• Adventures of the Super Sons (2018)

They slowly start to get used to each other and this comic shows that Damian isn’t just straight up mean but is starting to somewhat ‘like’ Jon.

• Challenge of the Super Sons (2020)

The last main Super Sons comics. This one is fine but I love the others so much. These comics are essential to know Jon and Damian period, it’s the main comics of each others story and in a way they are important to each others development.

• Batman and Superman: Battle of the Super Sons (2022)

Now after all that reading treat yourself to a movie because Jon and Damian got their own movie. This is what started Jon and Damian for a lot of people and this is probably where a lot of you are from. This movie is great and fun. They made Damian wayyy nicer than in the comics and their friendship easier.

• DC Rebirth Holiday Special (2016)

Please find and read this. It’s so cute. I love it so much.

• Dark Nights: Metal issue #3 (2017 -2018)

They make a rock band in the beginning, its so cute.

• DCeased (2019)

• DCeased: The Unkillables (2020)

• DCeased: Hope at World’s End (2020)

• DCeased: Dead Planet (2020)

• DCeased: War of the Undead Gods (2022)

This is such a good series, and story in general please read it. DC peaked with this one and its so angsty. I don’t care what comphet was happening, Jon was there for Damian like no one else. I think Damian ends up with Cassie which is weird to me because Damian has never shown interest in anyone before but I excuse it since it’s not really gonna happen again since they were in a relationship just for the story to be more high stakes and sad. Jon and Damian’s relationship was at the forefront and for comic book readers DCeased made people see the potential in Jondami.

• DC’s Terror Through Time (2022)

This is so cute, please read this. It’s a halloween special and they switch uniforms <3!!

• DC Saved by the Belle Reve (2022)

They help a nonbinary person navigate school and it’s so damn cute.

• The age up incident.

(Disclaimer: You can pretend this never happens and I wouldn’t blame you for doing that.) A writer named Brain Micheal Bendis comes into the writers room for DC and ages up Jon in short. The story is that Superman goes missing (He travels to War World and gets stuck there) and Jor-El comes back to meet Jon and he takes him on a trip to explore space, then they get trapped in a wormhole, Jon gets stuck on Earth-3 and has to fight Ultraman. He’s stuck in a volcano for five or six years and becomes seventeen (we think) when he comes back. This was sad to me because it took away all the potential interactions for Jon and our ability to see him grow up, it was rushed and purposely so. Jon takes up the title of Superman somehow and starts to date some guy named “Jay Nakamura.”

• Superman: Son of Kal-El (2021) Issues: #1, #3, #6, #13, and #14.

He does get a boyfriend here and I think it’s amazing the fact he simply gets a boyfriend but no one really likes his bf so… and the are real reasons why Jay as a character is problematic BUT if you just don't want to see him with someone else than every time you see a pink haired twink, quickly skip.

• Super Sons (2017) Special

This is them reuniting after the age up and it shows how Damian reacts to it. I can’t actually find this and if anyone can please let me know where it is. I can only find bits and pieces of it scattered across the internet. All you need to know is that he doesn’t like the age up anymore than us since he says “I miss my friend.” which is really sad to me because the age up ultimately really hurts what people like about their dynamic as well as tarnish Jon’s character almost completely.

UPDATE: found it, it got attached to

• Dark Crisis (2022) till Issue #5

This is fine, after issue four Jon and Damian are not there anymore and if you read half the story just for jon and damian you might as well finish it.

• Green Lantern: Blackstars (2019) issue #2

They hug here. You’re welcome.

• Action Comics (2016) issue #1030

This is the best thing to come from the age up. This is so cute of them.

• Teen Titans (2016) Issue #45

i didnt really like this, im not gonna lie but it has some damian and jon interaction worth noting with jon being protective over damian.

• Flash (2016) Issue #797

jon defending damian. this is such a cute moment for them. jon talks damian up and says how hes the strongest person he knows and how hes misunderstood.

• Superman (2016) Issue #21

iconic damian and jon sleepover, so cute. so flipping cute. damians outfit is adorable.

• Legion of Super Heroes (2019) Issue #3, ?, ?

dont read this. its rlly bad but this is full of jon being the number one damian apologist, quality jondsmi moments over quantity. worth mentioning • Wonder Woman (2023) #3, #4, #5, #6, ? literally them raising a child together but their ages are a bit wonkey, i still dont personally know what age either of them are supposed to be there...

DC MEETS HANNA-BARBERA - Super Sons x Dynomutt

I’d say they aren’t exactly written right, well over all they are but their personalities are more relaxed and they care about each other a lot and will go out of their way to make sure the other is okay and protect them from danger, make them laugh etc, theres nothing wrong with this, its really cute but you can tell its not the typical jon and damian writers is all. I like it.

- Fandom

Artist that draw Jon and Damian:

(I don’t know any of these accounts intimately so if they’re problematic in any way than I am sorry in advance)

Sheiya Vlad

Pechaghtlecha

Corinthianrm0

Hobiiiebrown

spider-jaysart

arunneronthird

Twitter

Hokke

Gozer

@_1209E

YouTube

Justice Lords Animation

Japanese Animation

Super Sons Meme Animation

- Fanfics

Trust fall by Ididloveyou_once

Those Who Wait by InsaneTrollLogic

moving in stereo by TheResurrectionist

Reasons to Not Fall in Love by nanami

Growing Pains

These are fics I read and liked, I don’t have much. I don’t read a lot of Jondami fan fiction so I insist that you recommend your own fanfiction in the comments. (Don’t hate me for the self promo)

- Music (A silly lil playlist I made for them)

END

#jondami #damijon #damian wayne #damian al gul #jon kent #jonathan kent #superboy #dc comics #damian x jon #damian x jonathan #jon x damian #damijon fanfiction #damijon shipping guide #reading guide #super sons #robin #supersons #slash ships #battle of the super sons #dceased #damian and jon #challenge of the super sons #adventures of the super sons #batman and superman: battle of the super sons

[batbabydamian]

Hey, I started reading Robin son of Batman because of your recommendation (I literally have a print of your post on my phone to not forget lol). Honestly? One of the best things I ever read!!!

Thank you for opening my eyes! Damian has been one of my favorite characters for over a year, but I didn't read/watch much of him because of school, life (and probably an executive dysfunction in the mix).

Maya is incredible. I loved her.

I haven't finished all the issues yet, but do you have any other recommendations?

WAH this makes me so happy, i'm glad you still gave it a shot even with how busy life is!! ;v;

i’d love to give reccs, and i’ll try to go a beginner friendly route! tbh you can pick up whatever here, but since you've read R:SOB i’d immediately follow up with Batman and Robin (2011) #1-8! this first arc is what’s referred to in Maya’s introduction, and it's just. so good.

Main Books

Batman and Robin (2009)

Dick as Batman with Damian as his Robin!

#20-22 Tree of Blood: Dark Knight vs White Knight arc is done by Tomasi and Gleason, the team for the next Batman and Robin series

*Batman and Robin (2011)

Bruce and Damian figuring out their relationship as both Batman & Robin and father & son

imo you can enjoy the ride and read straight through this but i’ll add context to avoid as much confusion as possible since there’s the occasional tie-in or offscreen events, like Damian’s death nbd

Batman Incorporated (2012) #1-10

events leading to Damian's death - affects Batman and Robin (2011) from issue #18

kind of a tough read especially with how Talia's written, but a lot of iconic bits like Batcow, Damian's vegetarian declaration, Alfred the cat, "We Were the Best, Richard."

Robin (2021)

another self-discovery adventure, particularly after Alfred’s death and a fallout with Bruce (and questionable writing choices from his last Teen Titans run)

Batman and Robin (2023)

currently ongoing! after a number of events, Bruce and Damian are back as a duo

Damian Dynamics!

Batman: Streets of Gotham (2009) #7, 10-12

arc where Damian meets one of his first Gotham friends, Colin Wilkes

Batgirl (2009) #5-7, #17

Steph and Damian dynamic! "the bad cop, worse cop" dysfunctional duo

Red Robin (2009) #13-14

early Tim and Damian dynamic that of course includes fighting haha. funny enough, accidentally my first intro to Damian LOL

Teen Titans (2003) #89-92

Dick!Batman has Damian join the Teen Titans. Start of Damian and Rose Wilson dynamic that’s extended in Robin (2021)

Batman: Gates of Gotham (2011)

Damian meets Cass and has a brief team up

Gotham Academy (2015) #7

Damian meets Maps Mizoguchi! they have a few other meetings, but outside of that the series itself is a great read!

Robin War Event (2015)

Robin War (2015) #1, Grayson (2014) #15, Detective Comics (2011) #47, We Are Robin (2015) #7, Robin: Son of Batman (2015) #7, Robin War (2015) #2

Duke and Damian dynamic! not exactly beginner friendly but these are the main issues in order for the event! you can also read the TPB version for everything including Tie-Ins

Nightwing (2016) #16-20, #42, #43

#16-20 Nightwing and Robin arc!

#42 Dick on a mission to save Damian! the one appearance of "Wiggles" the dragon

#43 Dick, Roy, and Damian team-up

New Talent Showcase 2018 "Catwoman: Pedigree"

Selina, Damian, and Alfred the cat

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding - Robin vs. Ra's Al Ghul (2018)

Selina, Damian, and Cheese Viking - Damian's fav game shown in Nightwing: Rebirth (2016)

Monkey Prince (2022) #1-4

Marcus Sun Shugel-Shen's main comic, but Damian features as a fun dynamic here before they're in more serious circumstances in Batman VS Robin (2022)/Lazarus Planet event

Superman (2016) #10 - 11

the beginning of the Super Sons! featuring Maya!

Super Sons (2017)

solitary arcs but there’s a few event tie-in issues later

Adventures of the Super Sons (2018)

literally more Super Sons adventures lol galactic shenanigans yeehaw

Challenge of the Super Sons (2020) 

Super Sons time shenanigans feat. the Justice League

Robin 80th Anniversary (2020)

"Boy Wonders" - brief Damian feature as Tim considers his next step in life

"My Best Friend" - Jon's thoughts on Damian and their dynamic

"Bat and Mouse" - refers to Damian's unfortunate Teen Titans (2016) run at the time of release which follows up with Teen Titans Annual #2 where Damian briefly gives up Robin

Extra Comics!

Superman/Batman (2003) #77

Kara and Damian in a Halloween team-up! also the appearance of "Li'l Matches" lol

DCU Halloween Special '09 "Cavity Search"

Damian out on a solo mission for Halloween night. Immediately after is Tim's Red Robin story "Then and Now: Our Father's Sins" which is more somber in contrast but also a good read!

DCU Halloween Special 2010 "Robin the Vampire Slayer"

a Dick!Batman and Robin story featuring the vampire Andrew Bennett

Cursed Comics Cavalcade (2018) "The Devil You Know"

Halloween themed comic with a sweet short story of Damian alongside Solomon Grundy

DC's Terrors Through Time (2022)

"Trick or Treat" a Super Sons Halloween story

"The Haunting of Wayne Manor" Damian and Deadman story - in the end, Boston kinda refers to Nezha's possession of Damian in Batman VS Robin (2022) which was happening at the time of this release

Batman: Li'l Gotham (2013)

lighthearted series that instantly makes me smile with the silliness and Dustin Nguyen’s art i love this dearly

Secret Origins (2014) #4 "A Boy's Life"

a retelling of Damian's origin story

Detective Comics (2016) #1001-1005

Batman and Robin vs the Arkham Knight (unrelated to the game)

Truth & Justice (2021) #6/#16 - 18 Digital First version

cute story of Damian’s birthday! Juni Ba’s art is so fun!!

DC Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero Celebration (2021) “Special Delivery”

short story about Damian! and poisoned pizzas. completely forgot the artist Sami Basri drew Rebirth Damian here before catboy Damian lol Cass’s story “Sounds” is also cute! Marcus makes his first appearance in "The Monkey Prince Hates Superheroes"

DC VS Vampires (2021)

Damian makes appearances throughout this elseworlds book, but the one-shot DC VS Vampires: Hunters (2022) is vampire Damian-centric!

Batman: Black and White (2021) #5

“Father & Son Outing” short story written and drawn by Jorge Jimenez!

Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #20-23

#20 “My Son” Talia and Bruce focus

#20 - 23 “The Murder Club” 4 Parts

Tiny Titans (2008) #33, #39, #45, #47

a few appearances but SO CUTE, LOOK AT HIM

*Batman and Robin (2011) reading guide

i'm mostly trying to avoid the "what did i just walk in on?" kinda feeling when i first started reading comics LOL i'll list the comics where events take place, but you don't necessarily have to read them to go through this book since things are usually explained as quickly as possible in the first page or so

#0 Someday Never Comes

Talia and baby Damian before he grows up to meet Bruce

#1-8 Born to Kill

just an incredibly solid arc for Bruce and Damian!

#9 Court of Owls Tie-In Issue

Damian VS a Court of Owls Talon. While Bruce is occupied with a home invasion of Talons, Alfred makes a call for allies to protect targeted Gotham public figures from Talons. During Batman (2011) #1-11

#10-12 Terminus

Damian challenges the previous Robins sans Steph

Batman Incorporated (2012) is occurring at this time where Talia has placed a bounty on Damian and there's small mentions of that

#13-14 Eclipsed/Devoured

mostly solitary arc! end of it leads into the Death of the Family event

#15-16 Death of the Family Tie-In Issues

Damian and Joker face-off... Alfred's been kidnapped by the Joker, and Damian goes looking for him. During Batman (2011) #13-17

#17 Life is but a Dream - Death of the Family Epilogue

a sort of subconscious check-in through the dreams of Damian, Alfred, and Bruce. Nightwing (2011) #17 features Damian encouraging Dick after Death of the Family events

#18 Undone "Requiem"

Bruce dealing with Damian's death from Batman Incorporated #8

other reactions to Damian's death: Dick in Nightwing (2011) #18, Tim in Teen Titans (2011) #18

#19-23 Denial, Rage, The Bargain, Despair, Acceptance

Bruce through the stages of grief with some batfam appearances in each. also introduces Carrie Kelley into continuity as Damian's acting tutor.

Batman (2011) #19-20 also addresses Bruce's loss

#23.1-23.4

these could be skipped - villain stories, also related to Forever Evil event.

#24-28 The Big Burn

optional Batman and Two-Face/Harvey Dent arc, #23.1 is part of this story!

Damian's resurrection and return

#29-32 The Hunt for Robin

Ras took Talia and Damian's bodies from their graves, and Bruce goes after him.

-> Robin Rises: Omega

continues events from #32. if you don't want to jump to this, basically, Glorious Godfrey and a bunch of parademons from Apokolips are here for a chaos shard which Ra's put in Damian's sarcophagus. at some point, Bruce gets a hold of the shard where he sees a vision that leads him to believe Damian can be resurrected. Godfrey ends up taking the shard, along with Damian's body since it was emitting the same energy.

#33-37 Robin Rises

Bruce hellbent on retrieving Damian from Apokolips and reviving him

-> Robin Rises: Alpha

necessary to read and continues events from #37! Damian's back with a bang lol

#38-40 Superpower

Damian adjusting to having superpowers and being alive again

Annual #1 2013 Batman Impossible

sweet (and funny) one-shot of Damian sending Bruce on a meaningful scavenger hunt around the world while Damian gets to be the cutest Batman for a bit

Annual #2 2014 Batman and Robin: Week One

one-shot takes place during Damian's absence. after Bruce and Alfred find a mystery gift left for Dick, Dick recounts a story he had told Damian from his Robin days.

Annual #3 2015 Moonshot

one-shot Batman and Robin adventure on the moon!

...and of course after Batman and Robin (2011), Damian's story continues in his first solo Robin: Son of Batman (2015)!

#damian wayne #ask #sorry for R:SOB promo again but i need this title attached to Damian's name as much as B&R 2009/2011😭 #thank you for the ask anon!! really am so happy you were able to find the time to read RSOB and enjoy it!! i genuinely cheered 😭 #i hope some of these comics give you many emotions and/or a smile!! <3 #if anyone would like to correct something or include some Damian comics please feel free to comment or add to the post!! #sorry if the reading guide is an intimidating wall of text hhh after i finished it i was like...this does not look beginner friendly LOL 😭 #Damian's Teen Titans run is beginner friendly but it's so frustrating to read his character being regressed especially after RSOB #ig i would only recc the first 5 issues just for Mara asdsfg #super/bat 77 comic rlly made me wonder how Williamson could've made Damian sound so stiff now compared to his first time writing him?? rip. #also i love how there's so many Halloween stories here lol #maybe?? i'll do a guide for Damian's intro since those were the most confusing for me when i really got into his comics #i think his most recent appearances are a bit easier to figure out on your own but i don't mind doing a guide for that too if needed! #OOF tags got long lol i may be a bit nervous posting this bc i'd like ppl to read more Damian but worried i may have goofed somewhere #but hopefully this is helpful to anyone curious about peeking at his comics!!

[distort-opia]

Hello! So I recently got into batman, and I’ve been slowly climbing my way up my reading list while also browsing through tumblr in search for metas about him, which is how I found your blog, and I really enjoy your metas!

I have a question though that won’t leave my mind, yet I also don’t want to stop my current reading list to jump into another series (JL), so I hope you don’t mind me asking this question to you instead 🙏

Basically, I’ve been wondering whether Bruce has opinions about Clark in relation to his self—Bruce’s self? So far from what I’ve read, Dick is (excuse me if the wording isnt exactly accurate, but just as a sums up) “the one that brings the light to Bruce’s darkness & the ideal self—the best of him”, whereas Joker is “the mirror to his self—the him that ‘what could have been’, the him who took different route”, and I wonder if there is a similar thinking/opinion about this self thing from him @ Clark too (like some sort of parallels)? I’m sorry if it sounds confusing 😅 Thank you!

Welcome to the fandom! Thank you for the kind words, glad you've enjoyed what meta I've put out. Hope you're having a fun time with Batman comics.

Oh Bruce definitely has opinions on Clark and Superman in general, in relation to himself. Though I have to make the note that in no way was Superman intended or built as a narrative foil for Batman's character, a "mirror self". Dick and Joker are characters who populated Batman's world from early on and were always meant to say something about the protagonist. Superman is a protagonist onto himself; he was created before Batman, and his popularity was actually a big factor contributing to Batman's creation. But that doesn't mean these two characters haven't grown together and influenced each other in a myriad of ways.

On a surface level, you've got the... grumpy one/sunshine one dichotomy. Superman is brightly colored and more emotional and fights in the light to bring people hope. Batman is enshrouded in darkness and stoically represses his emotions and fights in the night for justice and vengeance. One in the light, one in the shadows, one alien, one human, the "boy scout" and the "bad boy"... Even though they work together and are both on the side of good, these contrasts between Bruce and Clark are easily noticed by both others and themselves, and have led to conflicts on more than one occasion. But the way this translates in Bruce's head, to approach it from the angle you mentioned, is probably best summed up by the following pages... which I'm putting under a cut since this gets a bit long. Spoilers too I guess, for the Rebirth Batman run (if you haven't gotten to it yet).

Batman (2016) #36

"He's a better man than I am. [...] Who am I, compared to him?" And this is no way a new sentiment for Bruce:

Batman: Hush

Bruce doesn't see himself as a good person. He's capable of risking people's lives, of blackmail, lying, torture and manipulation, of unbelievable brutality and violence in the service of what he believes is his Mission. But he sees Clark as an inherently good person; as an ideal that he himself is not capable of ever reaching, of ever being. If I were to summarize only the projection aspect when it comes to Batman and Superman's dynamic, I'd say it's this one-- Superman is the hero Batman wishes he could be, but not one he'd ever try to become, because he believes himself fundamentally incapable of it. If as you said Dick is someone Bruce relates to and sees parts of himself in, but better (in trying to help Dick he retrospectively tries to help his child self), Clark isn't that. Superman is less of a mirror Bruce actively acts on, and more of a... negative. Clark is technically an alien, and yet in many ways he's more "human" than Bruce, having grown up with a loving family that Bruce wishes he had. Where Bruce tries to rise above the humanity he sometimes sees as weakness, both in emotional and physical terms, Clark is someone who's already "above" humanity, and yet yearns to be part of it. Moreso, Bruce envies Clark's sheer god-like power, but he knows that he doesn't have Clark's good character; that if he had this kind of unstoppable power, his need for complete control would drive him mad. Which actually happened one time, in Superman/Batman (2003) #53-56.

That being said, as is noticeable even in the pages above, this can result in Bruce putting Clark up on a pedestal, and idealizing him a bit too much, to the point of forgetting that Clark is a person too, with flaws and weaknesses. And not just that... the more ruthless and calculated side of Bruce never truly stops seeing Clark's power, both as something he can wield and something that can be turned against him (hence the hoarding of kryptonite and the contingency plans, in case Superman went bad). Perhaps Bruce's attitude more generally is illustrated best in this very recent moment:

Batman (2016) #128

Superman as Earth's greatest hero, and its greatest weapon. And Bruce is willing to risk his life to preserve that, because by comparison, he isn't these things. (And because Clark is his friend.)

#there's so much to their dynamic tbh. didn't delve too much into the more Superbat side of things but #this plays a part. they ARE best friends no matter what they say. but it was a complex journey to get there and it's still complicated #anyway. with the disclaimer that these are my personal thoughts of course #perhaps you'll have different interpretations as you make your way through canon #but I hope this was a fun read Anon! #asks #batman #bruce wayne #bruce wayne meta #superman #clark kent #my meta

[gffa]

what order would you recommend reading the batman comics in? also where do you find the comics?

"What order would you recommend reading the Batman comics in?" only has one answer and that answer is for me to immediately burst into tears. Okay, this list is designed around what I think is most likely to get you into comics and having a good time, if you're enjoying the kind of posts that appear on this blog: - Nightwing 2016, you can start from issue #1 and just keep reading (well, once you hit the Ric Grayson arc, you can skim if you want) because it's a fun, light-hearted series that's just very easy to read and is my comfort series in a lot of ways. I enjoy Dick Grayson's character, it does a lot of work to establish him in his own city, but also touches on his relationships with his family, and I think is a great starting place. You can start with Better Than Batman, Back to Bludhaven, Nightwing Must Die, Blockbuster, Raptor's Revenge, The Untouchable, The Bleeding Edge, Knight Terrors (not to be confused with the 2023 event of the same name!), Burnback, The Gray Son Legacy, The Joker War, Fear State Then there's something of a 'soft reboot' where the volume numbering starts over (but issue #s keep going) with: Leaping into the Light, Get Grayson, The Battle for Blüdhaven's Heart - Robin & Batman (2022), a beautifully illustrated series from the early days of Bruce and Dick, where Bruce is not exactly the world's greatest parent, but he's trying, there's an amazingly emotionally satisfying hug, and it shows what a delightful hurricane child Dick Grayson was. - "The Murder Club" is just one story out of many in Batman: Urban Legends but it's a fantastic one, with beautiful art and a story that's about Thomas and Martha Wayne traveling forward in time to see what's become of their son, and they don't necessarily approve--until Dick and Damian are basically impossible to ignore and they see what Bruce is fighting for. For more general Batman stories (rather than ones focused on my Blorbo), I'm enjoying: - The Court of Owls [vol. 1][vol. 2] by Scott Snyder, which is a solid case story and introduces the Court of Owls, which I genuinely like as a relatively recent addition to Batman's rogues gallery! - Batman 2016 is a bit of a controversial pick, because not everyone enjoys the authors writing for this series, but I've had a blast with a lot of Tom King's writing, personally. I especially enjoyed a lot of the run-up to the Bruce/Selina wedding with Rebirth book 3 (there's a double date with Bruce/Selina and Clark/Lois that's just a silly, fun good time!), The Rules of Engagement, Bride or Burglar, The Wedding, and Cold Days. I wasn't really a big Bruce/Selina shipper before those issues, but they really won me over because I love a good hot mess of a couple that have a bunch of thorny issues between them, that Selina loves Bruce not as some mythic figure but as the dumbass guy she loves, and then some bonus quality content with Bruce's kids, especially once the wedding falls apart and he's in such a bad place and Dick Grayson is so good at stabilizing Bruce that it's unreal. (You can also read Preludes to the Wedding in around here, if nothing else the Dick + Hush one was really, really fun! Clark and Dick take Bruce to Batburger for his bachelor's party because they're horrible people who think they're funny, and it's DELIGHTFUL.) - Batman/Superman: World's Finest (2022) by Mark Waid is also more light-hearted, but is so much fun, the characters banter with each other, but you can see their genuine friendship and how it became to be one of foundational relationships in both their lives, and plus Dan Mora's art is always TOP NOTCH. (Plus, volume 2 is out as well.)

I limited myself to anything from the 2016 reboot ("Rebirth") because I think that's easiest to draw someone in and these are the starting places that I would enjoy, though, they do assume a fair amount of pre-knowledge about Batman characters, like personally I enjoyed Batman & Robin Eternal but I don't think it's a good starting point for what the comics are actually like. As always, if someone has a good suggestion for a newer fan, I'd love to hear them! Especially since I tend to be Nightwing-focused, that's where my area of expertise is, if you have some good Tim or Jason or Damian recs, feel free! Though, in general, I think you can pick up almost any trade paperback and it'll be designed to be read without too much confusion, so just find a character you think you'll like and jump in! :D (p.s. I'm linking to Hoopla pages because, if you have a library card with your local library, you can use it to sign in to Hoopla!)

#lumi.txt #dc #batfam #dick grayson #comics recs

[spidey-x-male-reader]

GENUINE QUESTION

What comics or like in general pieces of media do you recommend with Roy in it?

MY TIME HAS COME

(I genuinely waited days to answer this cause I wanted to be at my laptop for this because I got really excited about that question so THANK YOU SO MUCH)

Sam's small Roy Harper Reading Guide

Generally I'd say it's important if you're more interested in the pre-52, new 52 or rebirth characterization. I personally love all of them so you're gonna get a Roy comic dump

Red Hood / Arsenal - probably one of my favorites. I just adore Roy and Jason too much. He's just a silly little bean there

Red Hood and the outlaws - to be honest I didn't love that comic series too much but I still adore the relationships between the characters so it's on the list too

Green Arrow Rebirth #18 to #20 - shows the backstory of Roy in the Rebirth timeline and I love the way that he's drawn in those

GREEN LANTERN (1960) #85-86 - good old Snowbird's don't fly. It's a classic but it's so worth to read

Literally any Teen Titans comic?? - I saw him for a few pages in my "superman & batman - world's finest" comic the other day and it cured my depression

INFINITE FRONTIER (2021) #1-6 (i think) - if you know, you know. made me very emotional.

INFINITE FRONTIER: SECRET FILES (2021) #2 - very short mini comic that made me cry a little but when doesn't Roy make me cry?

Also I can always recommend Young Justice. He doesn't have as many appearances as I'd like but I take what I can get because FOR SOME FUCKING REASON THEY'RE NOT PUTTING HIM INTO THE ANIMATED MOVIES??

I'll have a few other comics in mind right now but I can't remember what they were so I'll most likely still update this list (also when I continue to read more of them)

Again. Thank you. So much. For asking this question. I'm hyperfixated on this man since months. I needed this

I love you

Marry me

(whoever you are)

#sam's stupid rants #roy harper #arsenal #speedy #red arrow #young justice #dc #dc comics #dc roy harper #reading list #roy harper reading list #roy harper recommendation #this is just me simping for roy harper

[nitewrighter]

Do you have any thoughts on Christopher Kent/Lor-Zod? I'm a sucker for 'villain's kid wants to be good' and like his dynamic with Clark and Lois, and you have to admit Superman adopting Zod's son is a real Pro Gamer Move.

Ahhh I haven't read anything with Lor-Zod yet--my only brush with him was in Young Justice, and would you believe I also completely dropped off and lost interest in Young Justice as soon as I realized Razer showing up was only a one-time thing? Also the pacing issues, and all the fucked up and violent shit they pulled with Halo in the 'Outsiders' season only to pretty much completely shrug her off and forget about her in the next season... i dunno maybe one day I'll pick it up again because there's a decent amount of New Gods content in there , but that show assumes I care WAY more about Artemis/Tigress than I actually do. She's the Kate-From-Lost of Young Justice.

But y'know every time I see someone talk about Christopher Kent they're really passionate about it! It makes me sad that it's one of those things that got completely wiped away with the Rebirth and now they seem to just kind of default to making Lor-Zod a villain because his biological dad is a villain. I'll have to check out Last Son though. Like, I loved his design, but Lor-Zod in Young Justice just wasn't that interesting as a villain. Like at that point you're just diet Zod. I feel like there's an opportunity to make a Kryptonian antihero/Free agent with Lor-Zod, but it looks like they're going the Edgy Kiddo route with Sinister Sons this February.

#lor-zod #dc #young justice

[brokentoys]

i will admit i'm growing exhausted by dc's indecisiveness when it comes to riddler's character. which i didn't mention this about the comic yesterday, but when superman was asking about riddler, gordon said he's a thief (which, y'know, implies nothing more)

which, while this is the first batman/superman world's finest comic i read - but from first impressions, it seems more lighthearted maybe. so i understand why they don't wanna say / make riddler a murderer in it. but this isn't the only time they've done this.

i believe this is from green lantern - and i forget which issue, i just know it's a newer one (probs from rebirth era.) which also just refers to him as mostly a thief.

an 80s comic also refers to him as mostly a thief, too. although unlike the others, gordon does suspect he may commit murder is desired. and like. i know. this seems consistent, right? there's these many instances of them simply calling ed a thief - it must be so! except... these statements do not match eddie's history. not when there's been quite a few comics where he straight up murders or nearly murders. zero year, joker's asylum, everything tom king and tony daniels corrupts, riddle me that, batman chronicles #3, are all examples of eddie having actually murdered (or in zero year's case, nearly killing all of gotham.)

so... which is it? is eddie just a thief, or is he a serial killer? and like. even tho i prefer ed as a murderer (WITH CAUSE) and my depictions has him as such (WITH CAUSE) - but like. the comics should stick to one instead of sometimes saying he's just a thief, but then having him commit horrific crimes.

and although i'm talking about this point a lot - this isn't the only point of them being indecisive with riddler's character. another problem is his backstory. what was the riddler even before he became the riddler? was he a teacher? a carnival game host? a deliveryman? did he cheat his school puzzle contest, or did he win it fair and square? is he abused by his father or? did he finish school and go to college or is he a high school drop out? like there's just so many different versions of riddler's backstory it's not even funny. and that's just mentioning comics alone. his backstory gets even more different if you mention adaptations - which i wouldn't mention because adaptations tend to have different takes on characters. however, i think eddie still has the most different backgrounds compared to other characters. because he's also been a scientist, forensics scientist, video game developer, head of the cyber crime unit in the GCPD, and so on. meanwhile the other rogues, even in adaptations, almost always have the same background - scarecrow was always a psychologist, mr. freeze and manbat are always scientists, harley quinn is always a psychologist too. so it's just kinda funny how dc just can't seem to decide what ed's backstory is. he doesn't have a solid, concrete one like the other rogues do.

and then there's his design, which is also indecisive.

is eddie a young man (early 30s) with nice hair or is he a middle aged man (40s-50s) with a receding hairline? hell, year of the villain practically confirmed eddie is in his early 30s. yet some artists still draw him looking much older. also - is he a redhead or a brunette? dc was pretty consistent on making him a brunette during the 2000s up until 2013 (new 52) and the new 52/rebirth was... mostly consistent with making ed a redhead is seemed - up until now. which i've been noticing ed's been drawn as a brunette way more often now, while sometimes still being a redhead in other comics. so. which is it?????

i love this character, but i just wish dc could be a little more concrete with him. sometimes, it feels like he is a character writers look at and just decide to do whatever they want and dc just lets it happen. especially when this doesn't seem to happen to other characters as often.

#( 🧩 ✧ INFERIOR PUPPETEER ✧ | OOC )

[insertcoolusernamehereee]

This is gonna be pretty controversial, but like, my least favorite fannon characterization of DC characters is Hal Jordan. YUP, i ignored all the batfamily members, who i mostly read about, and jump right up to GREEN LANTERN. let me explain why-

In cannon, even Guy Gardner points out in Green Lantern: Rebirth, that the reason Batman hates Hal so much is because Hal is one of the only Justice League member who doesn't take Batman seriously. He isn't scared of Batman, and fear is something Batman relies heavily on.

quote- Hal Jordan is the Man Without Fear, and what is the Batman when you're not afraid of him? Just a man

that quote i put above is not the exact quote here, but i know it gets said, i just can't find that exact page- somebody PLZ link it in the Comments/Reblogs if u find it

And that's a line i actually really love for Hal.

BUT IN FANNON, HAL AND ALL THE OTHER JL ARE SO WEAK AND CLUELESS AND STUPID, it drives me up the wall. Batman and his kids are the only competent superheroes/vigilantes and i hate it.

especially when its about Superman, Green Lantern and Green Arrow. Because, while I love batman as much as the next person, I love these characters toooo. (Especially Batman's relationship with them)

In fannon, they make Batman bully Hal into fear, make him incredibly stupid, and BABYSIT THE BATKIDS, AND HE GETS FOOLED DURING THAT AS WELL.

basically, Hal Jordan deserves better. Do better @fanfiction

So, if anyone has fanfictions where Superman, Green Arrow or Green Lantern are treated with the respect they deserve and maybe interacting with the one of the Bats, make sure to link in Comments/Reblogs

read the tags, they're kind of important :3

#Yes i did just tag fanfiction as if its an actually @ #batman #fanfic #batfamily shenanigans #hal jordan #green lantern #bruce wayne #superman #clark kent #oliver queen #green arrow #Hal deserves better tbh #i love that line that Guy uses on Batman about Halll #guy gardner #batfamily #batfam #i admit this is mostly true for batfam fanfic #BUT STILL

[apopcornkernel]

funnily enough im pretty sure i did read the actual comics before wfa. i vaguely remember reading utrh first? and then i either watched the movie next or read batman's whole robinjay run + aditf + alpod. and then wfa. i only read detective comics' robinjay after i finished wfa i think. i know i also spedran all of the post-crisis jason's death aftermath/appearances according to the reading list by dailyjasontodd. spedran his stuff post-resurrection too, minus countdown, 52, brothers in blood; i only realized I'd already read outsiders before when i reread it just now, though. which is really funny like the reason i remembered was because anissa and grace got together. that's how i knew I'd read the comic before. i was like oh i remember these gay bitches. i know there was a time after comics where i then dove into fandom and just immersed myself with art, fic, and posts. it was a little weird at first but i hadn't read enough for the other characters to know, and it's very easy to get drawn into fanon bc its satisfying to an extent, you know. ooh, i know i read three jokers early on. i was in love with that artist's jason and i found that one panel really funny (babs "he literally killed a man" bruce "you don't understand... jason's suffering"). i dont remember much about my first batman period. i do know it was all batman tho.

this is getting long.

my second batman period (more accurately termed batman/dc) was mostly me revisiting fics and remembering canon things that made me upset again. oh and also other robinjay stories that i hadn't read before like the cult, etc. but after some time i, and i dont know how this happened, got interested in hal jordan. i genuinely think it was just a fanart i saw of him with white temples. i thought it was hot and imagine my delight when i found out it was canon. and then i found out he turned villain and i was like WOAH I NEED TO GET ON THIS and tada, speedran parallax arc all the way to the spectre. tried reading rebirth and hated it so bad. stopped reading hal after that. somewhere along the way i found myself reading superman. then i dont know how this happened but i got interested in matrix/mae kent specifically and read up on her origin. afterwards i went to death of superman all the way to his resurrection and mae/lex breakup arc. i think this period fizzled out shortly after that. ooh, im checking my gallery rn, apparently i also read death metal and the return of bruce wayne. i dont remember anything about the latter. i remember being pissed at the former. i also read the damian resurrection arc and got really mad at an interview in one of the comics bc it was more of those "bruce feels more strongly for damian than his other kids bc damian is his Real Son" like bitch. No.

OH!! i also read the long halloween & dark victory during this time! this must have been when the batman came out. ALSO READ CONNOR!! i started at the time ollie died and went on until the time ollie came back but connor was now comatose (?). i remember a lot of screenshotting panels bc of how appalling the coloring was, connor's skin color was disrespected so much in this few issues 😭

ooh, interesting. after connor panels there's no more until this year, which would be my 3rd dc period. i reread the long halloween and dark victory, and then finished the last few chapters of the spectre. after that i started young justice but never finished. i reread utrh, and then funnily enough went straight to reading all about steph up to war games. after steph i read some other robin tim issues at random and then i finally read brothers in blood. quick break for batman year 100 and then right into batgirl (this was right after lee and i became mutuals). ooh, spirit world. and then ram v's the vigil. then i read rhato special? special? idk if that's the name but it was like a oneshot for rhato? or was it rhato #0? idk. i laughed the entire time. it was so bad. then i read gotham war, hated it. read some issues of black and white. three jokers again. finally read robins by seeley. robin year one. some pre-crisis jason esp the nocturna arc. tt #29. issues of gotham knights #43 something? + the interview about jason issue. actually i think that's all in the same arc. batman prodigal. pre-crisis talia. mandatory reread of batman #496. tried to start countdown, failed. the cult reread. BIRDS OF PREY!! cry of blood, and then a vichelena binge. the huntress cavalieri! the question o'neil! read a lot of huntress. tripped abruptly into hawk and dove, read a lot of cameos after their solos ended. read identity crisis after seeing the bruce tim panel. read jade (nguyen) in preparation for my comm critical essay. read superman again for the invisible mafia. started both superwoman 2016 and steelworks but never finished. read talia lexcorp arc and Never Recovered. tower of babel. redemption lost (ASS). rucka's wonder woman & the hiketeia. some titans bc of jade. more jade stuff. more huntress stuff (specifically nightwing cameos). read tom fucking taylor nightwing. started but did not finish dixon nightwing after that. started a reread of the spectre. started reading azrael + knightfall stuff but am not finished. was hit with the jli disease (lethal). then went back into superman comics but specifically the start of the lex luthor 2 arc + mae :). and now retracing post-rez pre-morrison jason comics

#dcposting #dc #eta: I ALSO WATCHED LOIS & CLARK 1993 DURING THE 2ND DC PERIOD!!!!

[fishfrommars]

MY IDEA OF HOW THE BATFAM TIMELINE GOES DOWN

(Based on what I have read. SPOILERS AHEAD FOR: REBIRTH, New 52, pride issue 2022, Robin 2021)

So does it go:

Batman becomes batman around age 25(?)

Flying Graysons die

Dick becomes Robin

Barbara becomes Batgirl

Dick stops being Robin

Dick becomes NightWing - has his Titans run, Chicago run, Blüdhaven run, etc. Boy is everywhere tbh.

Batgirl gets shot in the spine - becomes Oracle sometime

Jason becomes Robin

Jason dies

Batwoman in here somewhere(?) sorry Kate I have no idea when you start but it is in the beginning I know for sure :(

Dick and Bruce have a big fat fight *insert Batman slaps Robin meme* (i always thought it was about Jason when Bman slaps the bird but I think it's actually about Superman)

Tim and Bernard meet, their families are rich, etc they always end up at galas together, possibly the Waynes are there too...

Tim confronts Bruce and Dick about Batman and Robin

Tim becomes Robin

Tim's dad dies

Jason comes back, tho no one knows yet I think(?)

Timmy and Batman split up - cuz Bruce is a dick holy shit

Timmy is working with the Teen Titans

Jason tries to kill Timmy

Jason becomes mean Red Hood

Damian comes into town - which everyone (the three previous Robins) is mad about.

IDK when Stephanie becomes Robin but she is supposedly the fourth Robin - but becomes Batgirl and then Spoiler

There are two working Robins - Tim and Damian

Bruce goes missing - something about a time stream(???)

Dick chooses Damian to be his Robin - Timmy and Dick have a bigass fight

Everyone thinks Bruce is dead except Timmy

Connor dies

Steph dies(?)

Wally dies

(Holy shit Timmy's edgy time begins as he searches for Bruce) as Red Robin YUMMMM

Batman (Dick) catches Red Robin YUMMM (Tim) as Ra's al Ghul kicks him out a skyscraper window (holy fuck i loved that issue)

Bruce comes back - holy shit why does no one listen to Timmy

Jason forms the Outlaws(????)

Jason and Bruce reconcile (somewhere in here I am not sure where tho, suddenly Red Hood has a red bat on his chest and is occasionally out with the Robins and either only used rubber bullets or shoots people in the legs)

A little very short time passes where the batfam gets to hang out and do missions, which leads to the next event.

Damian dies

Wayne family fortune goes away(????) idk when it happens but here somewhere

Dick "dies" but the batfam doesn't know that he is an agent of Spiral

Batgirl comes back, Babs has her spine fixed with technology, so it works kinda like a conputer(????)

Damian comes back(?????)

Bruce loses his memory???

Dick comes back for a second - gets his stupid face punched by Jason, (timber and jaybird have been through a lot losing Damian, Bruce, and Dick in such a short time span holy shit) and he deserves it

Robin school(?????) (i did not finish the "Grayson" series so IDK what the frick that is about)

The world somehow forgets who Dick Grayson is through comic book magic????

Tim is back to being regular Robin(????) so there are two Robins?(???)

Alfred loses his hand (idk when this happens I just know it is in here somewhere)

Bruce's memory comes back

Dick gets shot in the head - honestly just... there are so many questions I had about this, the main one is why the fuck the Joker(s) are not dead yet, after everything they have done to the bats and the birds

Dick becomes Ric after losing his memory - we don't talk about it because - well - DC fucked up :/ (i have a lot of rants planned out for this tbh. Starting with how the bat fam treated Ric, and how after Nightwing went missing none of the bats decided Blüdhaven was worth defending, and how they did Bea dirty even tho she was an ideal partner to someone like Ric / Dick....)

Alfred dies

Robin - Timmy and Damian both in Gotham as Robins - i think Timmy is pretty independent at this point, also he is legally emancipated at this point so he doesn't answer to Bruce anymore...

Dick's memory comes back

Damian and Batman have a falling out(????) and Robin goes off on his own - the newest Robin (2021) series (which I totes recommend if you need to understand Damian a little more - also bonus all five Robins have a scene in it (issue 5 i think) and it is fantastic)

Fun fact all of the Robins have died by this point (though idk if Dick's counts cuz his heart did technically stop but there was no lazarus pit to bring him back just pure adrenaline shot to the heart...)

Tim and Bruce get along again?

Tim and Bernard go out after reconnecting (?????) new thing, waiting for the issue in August 2022 I think?

Tim gets shot in the neck(?????) new issue july 2022

Duke and Cass come into the picture as (?) Outsiders(????) i forget their group name I am sorry) So Spoiler, Signal, orphan now a team since Bruce adopted them I guess. Also Batwing is there (is that his name?) - it's Luke Fox, the guys who had a rescue mission and stole some cool Bat tech to get Bruce back after Talia kidnapped him (also a cool guy to check out. He is a good one to keep up with too. Butts heads with Bruce a lot when it comes to raising the bat babies - which GOOD).

Idk about you, but there is defs over 80 years worth of history here that is supposed to happen over the span of like 20 years (holy cow) and Bruce is supposedly supposed to pick up the mantle of Batman at around 25 or so, and a year and a half in he adopts 9 year old Dick Grayson. Holy shit these kids....

@ me if you think I forgot something or if I need to fix it :)

#bat tag #batman #bat family #wayne family adventures #batman wfa #wfa #webcomics #red hood #jason todd #damian wayne #robin #robin dc #bruce wayne #stephanie brown #dick grayson #the flying graysons #nightwing #bitewing #tim drake #red robin #oracle #later #dc universe #new 52 comics #dc rebirth #lazarus pit

[ultfreakme]

Jon Kent’s multiple Daddy Issues: A Ramble

As the title suggests, this will be about Jon’s relationship and his feelings with regards to Clark.  I’m dividing this into 2 phases. Phase 1 is pre-SOKE, Phase 2 is SOKE and holding the Superman Mantle.

PHASE 1

At the moment, Jon is in a very difficult position with the Kent family and the world in general. He has missed out on about 6 years of his life with his family and friends, but the world had moved a mere three weeks. But his problems didn’t start here, they started even before that.

Pre-Volcano torture, Jon had two major issues

Being perceived as a threat rather than a hero, and having to live up to Superman.

On multiple occasions, Jon has been either used by someone with evil motives to take out their mission(Manchester Black) or he’s been deemed a threat to earth(Saviour!Tim and Parallax, Damian for a while because of the Goldie killing and kidnapping thing). His days as Superboy started off great, but on many occasions he’s expressed insecurity with his powers and realized that being Superboy means living up to his father’s name and finding a place for himself. Now I dislike Bendis’s decisions, but he did bring up Jon’s doubts, something that has plagued him for a while.

I love Super Sons & Superman Rebirth but Jon’s emotional issues are rarely explored or taken forward. He has a realization, and it’s left in the dust primarily because he was never the center of any story up until SOKE. After a while, Jon’s sorta getting that being a hero isn’t as easy or cool as he once thought and the idea that he has a legacy to live up to is sinking in. On top of this, a person tried to kill him because he has the potential to be evil. He also has insecurities with being half-kryptonian and half-human(Eradicator, it’s made worse in SOKE).

Point is, Jon’s trepidation started when he was young.

Next thing that caused a HUGE, GLARING problem, is the volcano torture, which I’m going to talk about in two-parts

Jon was not saved

From SOKE #9, we know Jon’s been stuck in the volcano for about 5-6 years. During this time, he called for help and he says he even called for Nightwing. If I were Superman’s kid, I’m calling dad first, but at some point, he must’ve gotten exhausted enough to call upon anyone, anyone, even Nightwing who literally cannot fight someone as powerful as Ultraman but this is was a kid desperate to be saved.

It’s even worse, because Jon must’ve seen Clark saving multiple people day-to-day. He knows what his dad’s capable of and seen it first-hand. His father is his hero, he’s the universe’s hero and he failed.

Jon was tortured not by an imitator or someone sharing his father’s face, that literally is his dad but in a different universe

See, if Jon was tormented by someone in the likeness of his dad, he can tell himself “this will never happen, this means nothing” because the differences are surface-level. Ultraman is simply Clark Kent gone wrong, and to a kid, even as smart as Jon, that must leave an impact. Ultraman was using the same power-set as his dad, and when he had first gotten to that Earth, he actually thought it was his dad. So to not only be abandoned, but to be trapped and tortured by a version of his dad for years must leave some long-lasting and unshakeable trauma. 

Jon was never sent help, he escaped on his own and found his way back home.

 Superman, his dad, isn’t infallible and he failed him. To truly understand the weight of this, read Superman: Up In The Sky. The entire arc is about one human girl who gets abducted, and everyone’s telling Clark to not chase after this one child across the universe because the Earth needs protection, but he does it anyway because there’s a kid waiting for him and he can’t let that kid down. The run explains the guilt he feels, the lengths he’d go to in order to save one soul even if it sounds like a fools errand. He goes through hell.

This is what Jon’s expecting.

Now despite all this, Jon clearly still loves Clark and all his interactions with Clark are casual and warm after the age-up. Still, he’s lost time with them and is seeing his family after so long. The lasting effects of the time lost comes through in Bendis’s(derogatory) next arc with the Superfam where Jon temporarily returns from his summer camp with Legion of Superheroes(LoSH) with Brainiac 5, and the second he sees Kon he’s like “dad did you guys replace me with a cooler son?”. Bendis probably used it as a “haha the funny!” joke thing but I’m taking it as Jon’s immediate and deep insecurities with regards to being Clois’s kid. He was gone for a while and he had no idea what was happening during those 6 years. For all he knew his dad Superman could be dead, captured, or maybe they forgot Jon and thought him dead and moved on. He has issues about his place on Earth, and its so much worse than before.

I frankly don’t want to discuss LoSH, I’ve read it twice and I still remember nothing. Anyways, his reasoning for going, and the reason why LoSH invited him was because he was supposed to show them how 21st century heroes work and to help LoSH reconnect to og superhero roots. The worst pick of a candidate for this but whatever. So he goes because he has purpose there, but he returns promptly because, most likely, he doesn’t find any need to be there. His place isn’t in this far future.

So he comes home, everything’s settling in, the family’s together, Conner has been confirmed to not be his replacement. It’s going great!

Not.

Right as things calm down, his dad leaves on another mission and gives JON the Superman mantle.

Thus begins Phase 2 of Jon’s daddy issues

PHASE 2

Things are terrible. Jon’s not had the time or space to really explore what kind of hero he wants to be, what kind of Superman he wants to represent. With the realization that his dad can fuck up and being a Gen Z teenager, he’s realizing his dad’s not perfect, hence the “Why don’t you do more?”.

Most people I’ve seen shit on Jon for saying this and not having done more than Clark in these 13 issues. The point of SOKE and Dark Crisis at the moment isn’t to say Jon is better than Clark. He isn’t, but he can be. He’s potential that needs to be realized, not the immediate answer to Jon’s own question. SOKE is about Jon figuring things out and on his way, he is going to fuck up.

So he starts off all confident, but quickly realizes he’s been given a task far beyond his capabilities.

He’s not ready. The narrative makes it clear, Jon himself has his doubts. His biggest villain in SOKE isn’t Bendix, it’s the shadow of his father. Jay’s arc is about Bendix and is very action-oriented. Jon gets the emotional arc, and it’s peppered in everywhere.

We start with re-establishing that Jon cannot rely on Clark anymore(#3 and #4). His dad has abandoned him once again to help someone that isn’t him. There’s a simmering, subtle bitterness Jon holds towards Clark which he can never express. It starts with the Annual where he’s talking to his dad’s hologram, continues with Nightwing #89 where he goes to his dad for advice but gets nothing and would rather be left alone, and keeps going in #12 when he says he knows what it’s like to not be saved and says he won’t let it happen again.

Jon’s new definition of his Superman is surrounding what Jon wanted out of a hero. He wanted someone who would be there, someone who’ll answer the call but he’s so hesitant with it because much like the entire world, Jon knows it is an uphill battle trying to be better than Clark. With all the insecurities from phase 1 in mind, it’s even worse for Jon.

His father is his challenge, but also the person he wants to make proud because at the end of the day, that’s his dad.

The worst part is he can’t direct any of his resentment towards Clark because ‘technically’ it is not Clark’s fault. He didn’t know those 3 weeks meant 6 years for Jon. He wasn’t the one who tortured Jon. Clark shows how upset and angry he is at Jor-El for subjecting his son to this. Clark isn’t at fault.

To the rest of Jon’s universe, Superman is still perfect.

So what the hell is Jon supposed to do with all this emotion?

Say nothing.

He will say absolutely nothing, he will continue to be a good son, he will carry on his father’s(the one who the world sees as great) legacy. He won’t and can’t say “actually my dad wasn’t that great” because who the hell is going to take him seriously?

No one.

Jon’s going to be on his best behaviour and be the best son ever. “Dad, will you be proud?” “Dad are you looking?” “Dad do you approve?”

The saddest part, is that it’s kind of pointless.

Because Clark doesn’t see the Jon in front of him anymore.

In Action Comics, Clark’s like beaten to a bloody pulp and he’s sorta hallucinating or dreaming and he says “my son’s turning 12″(sir your son’s 17 going on 18). In a more recent issue he talks about this toy he made for Jon when he was a kid, and makes it for these two other young kids. In World Without a Justice League: Superman, it’s very clear he doesn’t know who Jon Kent is anymore, and he’s living out this dream where he gets to see Jon grow up. And this Jon is absolutely nothing like the real Jon.

This Jon has no fear, no need to gain his dad’s approval and he’s confident. Clark makes a speech about how proud he is of the dream Jon and envisions him in a suit that’s basically a copy of his own.

Clark’s image of Jon, even if it’s unconsciously, is of a child. A 12-year old kid. Not the 17-18 year old. He’s simply refusing to look at the current Jon and Jon rn doesn’t know this.

Jon’s fighting against the mantle of Superman and the ghost of his past self, and at almost every turn, he’s losing. Jon doesn’t know about Clark’s opinion, but even without direct insight, he’s constantly fighting to show the world he’s worthy of being a hero and is trying make people look at him. Not Clark, not the 10-12 year old him, but the current him.

I think Dark Crisis made a conscious choice when Jon’s first battle there is with Cyborg Superman. His biggest problem is assembling a Justice League. Jon can’t resent his father for being such a good person that he went out to a place called “Warworld” to save people, he can’t. How can anyone be annoyed that Superman’s helping people?

So he shut up, bottles it all in and works even if he’s scared shitless(because of the volcano trauma, the murder accusation, everyone calling him ‘Superteen’, multiple people all over the world cowering in fear when he wants to help, pre-existing far from the Goldie death issue, him being used by Manchester Black to attack his family, fear of endangering his lover and family,  failing his dad and therefore the earth if he doesn’t respond right). He can’t afford to do anything else because as Superman he doesn’t have the time.

Thus, Jon’s stuck in this emotional prison, unable to find any place to express his problems.

#jon kent #jonathan kent #superman son of kal el #son of kal el #superman #superboy #jonjay #jayjon #dc comics #dcu #superfam #clois #clark kent #jon kent meta #dc meta #jonathan samuel kent #super sons

[tatedeco]

My recs for Nightwing!Dick-comics

This is the real meat of it when it comes to Dick Grayson-recs. Most of his modern stories have been as Nightwing ever since he took on that mantle in 1984. You will hear different recs from different people but these are the stories I personally enjoyed the most. Strap in because this is a long list:

Nightwing's Solo Title

These are the stories I liked the most from his solo title. If you want to read Nightwing as a main character, these are the stories I can recommend:

1. Nightwing: Rebirth by Tim Seeley (2016-2017)

Recommendable? Yes, perfect for newcomers. This very much feels like it brings Nightwing back to his roots. You can't go wrong with this as your first Nightwing-comic.

What is it?

It's Dick going back to being Nightwing (he was a secret spy before but don't worry about it). He goes back to his city Blüdhaven and re-establishes himself there.

What do I like about it?

This just captures why Dick is such a beloved character for me. It includes the fun of reading him but also his grit and need to be independent. He very much makes Blüdhaven his own. Blüdhaven is a delightful setting here. Seeley reimagines it as a former whaling town that tries to reimagine itself as a neon-lit casino city. It's a flashy underdog city that fits Nightwing.

This run has one of my all time favorite romances for Dick with Shawn Tsang (a former low-tier villain) and it introduces one of my favorite DC villains Raptor. Giving Dick a villain who is connected to his mom and his circus days is brilliant in my eyes.

2. Nightwing The Untouchable by Sam Humphries (2017-2018)

Recommendable? Yes, one of the best Nightwing-arcs ever. A short read that is collected in one volume. This follows Seeley's arc directly so you could just read this once you've finished the Seeley-issues.

What is it?

It's a story arc where Nightwing fights a new villain The Judge. This villain is very much connected to Blüdhaven, the sea and Dick's past.

What do I like about it?

Sam Humphries filled in on Nightwing directly after Seeley left but he gave us one of the best Nightwing arcs ever. I love how this arc draws on Dick's past and the Blüdhaven-setting to create a new villain. The Judge feels very mythological and the story is well-told over a short time. Humphries did so much with so little. I'd love to see him come back to Nightwing for a longer run.

3. Nightwing by Tom Taylor & Bruno Redondo (2021-now)

Recommendable? Yes, also for newcomers. It's currently going on so you would be very up-to-date with where Dick is now.

What is it?

Dick's return to form after his amnesia (don't ask, you don't need to know). He is heroing in Blüdhaven again and trying to change his community through his newly-acquired wealth He inherits a lot of money from Alfred who's been dead for a few years (but will hopefully return soon).

What do I like about it?

This entire run is just pure positive vibes. I feel like it very much captures Nightwing's positivity and empathy. Fans of Dick/Barbara will also have a good time here because Babs is featured heavily. The plot moves very slowly - which makes this run a bit controversial among many fans - but if you're here for the vibes and the slice-of-life, you'll have a good time. There are also many team-ups, especially with Babs, Tim and Wally.

The art is also to die for. Bruno Redondo is just perfect for Nightwing. There is an entire issue that is one continuous chase-scene and it's one of the most impressive Nightwing-issues ever. Every Nightwing-fan should at least pick up Nightwing #87 for this reason. It's a masterpiece of comic artistry.

4. Nightwing by Peter J. Tomasi (2006-2009)

Recommendable? Yes, a very self-contained run that shows how connected Dick is to the DC universe. Dick is very competent but also fun here. It's all collected in one book.

What is it?

This run has Nightwing move to New York and have adventures there. He is very connected to the DC-universe and there are some cameos and team-ups. Superman shows up at one point, Wally, the Justice Society, Tim Drake... Our boy is beloved.

What do I like about it?

You very much feel how integrated Dick is in the superhero-community. At the same time, he is very independent and competent. There is an especially epic fight here that I won't spoil. You have to love a run that starts with Dick jumping out of a plane for fun and Bruce giving him the disappointed DadTM-vibes.

Nightwing with the Titans

These are the stories where Nightwing is part of the Titans. Either he is the lead for an arc or he gets some great character moments within the team. I also threw a team-up with Wally in here for fun:

5. The Judas Contract (1984)

Recommendable? Yes, if you're interested in Dick's first appearance as Nightwing and classic Titans-stories. This is *the* Teen Titans-story. It is an arc within the pages of New Teen Titans/Tales of the Teen Titans. Be aware of the dense 80s style. It's manageable though.

What is it?

Deathstroke makes his move against the Titans and captures all of them except Dick. Dick takes on the identity of Nightwing and has to save his team with the help of Slade's son Joey Wilson.

What do I like about it?

If you read all of New Teen Titans (which you should because it's a masterpiece), you'll feel the masterful build-up to this arc. It's a pretty well-known spoiler but I won't spoil it here in case you're not familiar.

This specific arc shows Dick fully stepping into his own and moving forward with his new identity. It's a central piece of characterization for him. He's also really badass here, the way he takes on Deathstroke. He's the only non-powered Titans but he deserves to be there 100%. This arc really shows what Dick contributes to the team.

I also love the introduction of Joey. He's a great character - a pure cinnamon role with a compelling backstory and a great addition to the Titans. One of the few mute characters in comics. He actually communicates in sign language.

6. Titans: Rebirth (2016)

Recommendable? Yes, for the pure fun factor.

What is it?

It's the Titans coming together again. Wally is the driving factor here. He was erased from existence for a while due to the 2011-reboot (don't ask, you'll learn everything you need in this comic) and makes his friends remember him again. This time, the team consists of Dick, Wally, Roy, Donna, Garth and Lilith. Bumblebee and other characters also join at some point.

What do I like about it?

I love all of the characters. You just feel the love these long-time friends feel for each other. There are also so many great Dick & Wally-moments. The overall vibe is just very wholesome and I love spending time with all these characters.

My only gripe with this run is that the Titans are quite obedient to the Justice League. In my mind, the Titans should be their own independent network. The point of them is that they don't want to be controlled by their mentors. Still, this is a great run for anyone who likes these characters and wants to spend some time with them.

7. JLA/Titans The Technis Imperative (1998-1999)

Recommendable? Yes! A great story-arc that highlights what makes the Titans so special and different from the Justice League. There are information boxes for all key characters so newcomers should be able to catch up.

What is it?

An event-comic in which all the (former) Titans get abducted for a specific reason. The JLA and the Titans have to deal with what develops into a global crisis.

What do I like about it?

This story arc highlights why I love the Titans so much. They are friends who are close enough to be family while the JLA are more like co-workers. Many of the Titans get some great character moments, including Dick. There is a particularly heart-wrenching page here that says a lot about Dick's relationship with Bruce. Always a gut punch for me when I see it. Again - it's complex.

8. The Flash plus Nightwing (1996)

Recommendable? Yes, for everyone who loves a good Dick & Wally team-up. This is very much a beginning point for their very close friendship in modern comics.

What is it?

It's Dick & Wally going on their yearly vacation where shenanigans happen. Did I sell you on it yet? It's just one issue so it's a very quick read.

What do I like about it?

These two are just too much fun together. There are so many great character moments and you can just read it with some bare knowledge about Dick & Wally as characters (any fanfic-reader should be fine). The plot is also really wacky. Not spoiling it - but it gets wild.

I also love the premise that Dick & Wally go on yearly vacations together. It's a retcon (in the sense that it was never mentioned before & Dick&Wally weren't that close before) but it works so well - one of these great retcons. Since then, these two have been one of the best comic friendships. (And I like to ship them of course. So, any shipper's heart will also find some great moments here.)

Nightwing with the Batfam

These are the stories where Nightwing's relationships with the Batfam are in the foreground. I have two great arcs that deal with the relationship between Dick, Bruce, Alfred & Tim. They follow up on each other so you could just read them one after another:

9. Batman: Year Three (1989)

Recommendable? Yes, if you have bare knowledge about Batman-lore and Dick & Bruce as characters. Again, fanfic readers should be fine. This is very much related to Dick's backstory with Zucco - the killer of his parents. The arc is contained in Batman #436-439.

What is it?

Such an underrated story arc. Basically, it takes place after Jason's death and deals with the possibility of Tony Zucco coming out of prison. We see Dick, Bruce and Alfred reacting to the Zucco-situation.

What do I like about it?

This takes place after Jason's death but before Tim's introduction. So, it's a very dark time for the Bats - Bruce in particular as Batman gets more brutal. I love how this little arc illuminates Dick, Bruce & Alfred as characters. The characterization is very nuanced.

There are a lot of flashbacks back to Dick's time as Robin and the way he deals with grief. In the modern time, Nightwing tries very hard to get Batman back from his more violent tendencies. Great character moments for Dick, Bruce & Alfred!

10. A Lonely Place of Dying (1989)

Recommendable? Yes, again with knowledge of basic Batlore. A requirement for Tim Drake-fans because it's his proper introduction as a character! You can easily get this collected. It takes place directly after Batman: Year Three.

What is it?

The introduction of Tim Drake that takes place after Jason's death. He has figured out Batman's identity and sees the brutal rampages Batman goes on. So, that little fanboy goes up to our boy Nightwing and tries to convince him to become Robin again.

What do I like about it?

This story sold me on Tim Drake as a character. It is very much a case for why Batman needs a Robin. Tim, Dick & Bruce get great character moments. Dick's & Bruce's relationship is very complex here again. You also see Dick meeting one of his little brothers for the first time which is a lot of fun.

Nightwing with the Outsiders

This is a very special time in Nightwing's history. This recommendation shows him with the Outsiders - a more edgy team:

11. Outsiders by Judd Winick (2003-2007)

Recommendable? Yes, if you want to see a moodier Nightwing with a more edgy team. Also, for any Dick/Roy-shippers. I see you and I hear you. This is like the Dick/Roy-bible.

What is it?

The Outsiders form as a black ops team. Their mission statement is to do what other teams aren't willing/ready to do. Roy gets Nightwing on as the leader. Other team members are Jade, Anissa Pierce, Grace Choi, a version of Metamorpho (it's complicated) and Indigo.

What do I like about it?

On paper, I should dislike this concept. Nightwing is very moody here and a giant asshole (I love my boy but he screws up hard here). There is very much a reason though for Dick's mood shift:

Donna - his bestie - died before the Outsiders formed and the Titans disbanded for that reason. Dick is very much grieving and doesn't want to join any teams. He doesn't want to get close to anyone again for the fear of losing them. Still, Roy gets him to join the Outsiders under the condition that they won't be friendly with each other - purely professional.

So, the premise of the comic and the context explains Dick's cold and harsh behavior. I like this comic because it's interesting to see Dick in this dark place. Despite his attempts though, he can't help but get attached over time. He also has so many fights with Roy. The tension between these two is running high - no wonder you see so many Dick/Roy fics related to this time (it's headcanon though, I don't want to mislead anyone here).

Also, the characterization for each team member is supreme. I hadn't read much with characters like Jade, Anissa or Grace before but they quickly became some of my favorite DC-characters.

Dick/Roy may not be canon here but Grace/Anissa is a *canon sapphic romance* within the pages of this comic. It's a wonderful relationship and very unexpected for the early/mid 2000s. So, this may also interest you if you are looking for some cool LGBT+ superhero-couples.

This comic shouldn't work on paper but it did. It has so much heart that I can recommend it also to those who may not find the idea of Nightwing in his edgy-phase appealing. An interesting time for his character that I'll probably dig into at some point with a future post.

Events

Events often concern the entire DC-universe. They bring characters together. Here, I recommend an event where Nightwing is part of the larger cast and gets some character moments that made me very happy as a Nightwing-fan:

12. Infinite Crisis (2005-2006)

Recommendable? Yes, also if you are interested in reading an iconic DC-event where most of the DC-universe comes out to play. This also has some great moments for Dick & Bruce's complex relationship.

What is it?

A giant DC-event. Basically, characters from the old DC-universe try to erase the new DC-universe because they believe that the new universe is too dark and corrupted. What is Dick's role here? He's involved in the action and there are some great character moments that will make most Nightwing-fans squeal with joy (okay, maybe it was just me).

What do I like about it?

It's an epic event. The action is big, so many great characters are here, incredible art... But apart from that, this event shows how much Bruce loves, respects and appreciates Nightwing. I won't spoil this moment but it shows how important Nightwing is to the DC-universe. The original plan for this event was to kill Nightwing off so they were really trying to make you sentimental about him. Thankfully, he didn't die so we only get the wonderful character moments highlighting our boy's impact.

It also has another big character moment in Nightwing's history that is related to his city. Slade is a real bastard here and this is a key event in their rivalry.

Comics that didn't quite make my list:

Nightwing by Chuck Dixon (1996-2002)

Recommendable? Depends, if you want to see where much of Nightwing's lore comes from and don't mind older tropes and writing.

What is it?

The first long-running Nightwing-solo. Dixon established Nightwing as a solo hero in Blüdhaven after his time on the Titans. He takes on a lot of organized crime and one of his most iconic villains Blockbuster.

Why do I not quite recommend it?

This is probably the most iconic Nightwing-run. It firmly cemented Nightwing as a solo hero and established Blüdhaven as his city. If you want to understand where much of Nightwing's lore comes from, you should read it. I'm personally glad I read it and got a lot of enjoyment out of it.

I wouldn't quite recommend it though especially to newcomers because it feels quite dated in some of the writing and art. A lot of the tropes are well-worn and I needed some time to get into it. The plot can feel a bit unremarkable with Dick working his way from one forgettable gangster to another.

Dick is also characterized in a more angsty way. It fits with this point in time because he still has a lot of tensions with Bruce and is struggling with his independence. Still, not my favorite characterization of his. I'm definitely grateful this run exists though because modern Nightwing builds on this a lot. Anyone interested in Nightwing's history should read it.

New 52: Nightwing by Kyle Higgins (2011-2014)

Recommendable? Depends. It's very understandable for newcomers but it is held back by more company-wide decisions. What do I mean by this? Let me explain.

Why do I not quite recommend it?

In 2011, DC rebooted its entire universe. Newcomers could just jump on. This also goes for this run. In principle, it's cool that newcomers can just pick this up but the New 52 (as it's called) had a lot of issues though which you can feel here.

A lot of the beloved Batfamily-characters are missing (Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown) and the lore is very stripped down (this Nightwing was never really part of the Titans). So, the entire universe feels more empty and bleak.

More importantly though for this run, there were a lot of Batfamily-events (Death in the Family, Night of the Owls). These events call all of the Batfamily together and they interrupted the storylines that were currently happening in Nightwing. So, you can feel that Higgins isn't really allowed to let loose because he has to write around these events.

So, I can't really recommend this run as one of your first Nightwing runs. I would still encourage anyone to check it out eventually because I got a lot of enjoyment from it. You can feel that Higgins has a lot of love for Nightwing and when he is allowed to let loose (especially towards the end), he has some brilliant character moments.

I would be happy if he came back to Nightwing at some point with more creative freedom. He still delivered a solid run despite all the hurdles he was forced to overcome. There are just other runs which are more in line with the more classic Nightwing-lore that I would recommend first.

This is it! Take some deep breath because this was a long list. Again, these are all my opinions and there may be stuff I missed or haven't read yet. Nightwing-fans are quite divided on many of these stories.

So, pick what seems interesting to you. I've got enjoyment out of pretty much every Nightwing-solo run (except the run with the tentacles, don't ask).

I have a list of Robin!Dick-recommendations up and I'm going to make one for Batman!Dick-recommendations.

#nightwing #Comic recommendations #titans #new teen titans #batfamily #bruce wayne #tim drake #wally west #dick Grayson #dc comics

[ecoamerica]

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[konboyblues]

#deadass forreal forreal#one thing i hate about ppl who sensationalize chris but then turn around and shit on jon is this right here#like cousin be real#chris ALSO got shafted by the narrative and they did it to pitch some ultra epic romance and keep clark form raising him#age-ups are common for a reason#i am deadass terrified they're gonna age up otho and split her from osul so clark won't have to raise her either#truly terrified#clark's children suffer on account of being his kids#it's sad and i hate it and neither chris nor jon are at fault for being editorial's playthings 😭😭😭#real talk#dc comics

OP I am vigorously shaking your hand, THANK YOU.

I have been screaming about how Jon got the literal SAME treatment as Chris for AGES but people can't seem to get over the fact DC decided for the UMPTEENTH time that you know what couples need? Biological kids over adopted ones we have always been screwing over anyway! Chris isn't the first adopted kid to get fucked over by DC! Stop concentrating your anger on the fictional characters and start getting angry at the writers and editors! I want THEIR asses on a platter, not Jon's!

Oh, let's not forget the fact Chris was always going back to the Phantom Zone at the end of his debut run— but because Last Son's artist had to take a nearly year-long break due to health issues, the other writers took that as an opportunity to develop Chris and his relations with the Superfamily.

Superkids are disposable for Clark angst, whether one accepts it or not. Chris isn't the first to get the shaft (that would be Cir-El, who was even retconned as not being RELATED to Clois because people hated her guts as a Supergirl-replacement so much) and as you can see, he certainly isn't and won't be the last (see: Jon). I'm sure those twins won't last long either.

(I have beef with Kennedy so I tend to ignore the twins' existence unless someone forces me to acknowledge them. He is on my shit list though— at least Jon wasn't created as a (blatant) replacement for Chris, unlike those two! I can't believe he even admitted that! In an interview!

You could have found a way to deage Jon and solidify yourself as a legend regardless of how the rest of your run goes, but noooo, you had to cram in your own OCs instead! You don't even get to own their IP, idiot!

Oh, and I read somewhere (or was it in the same interview?) that the girl was gonna die at the end of the Warworld saga too! As if the boy twin wasn't enough of an obvious replacement (who I might add even has some similarities with Chris too)! And you had to screw over the New Gods for them too! They are barely recovering from King's Mister Miracle, dude!)

see anon, one thing i've realized about BOTH dc fandumb and dc editorial after being off dc comics for nearly ten years is that......... they not reading 😂😂😂 that's literally it, and im tired of pretending like that's not a problem on BOTH sides. it's so funny bc yeah, chris was never meant to last, but he DID have an impact, but you would think that after the nuking of the universe, the failure that was the new 52, and then the rebirth initiative to bamboozle hoes back into buying overpriced singles.............. they would, like, make a genuine effort not to be stupid with their own heritage properties, but the clowns keep clowning!!!

as for the children of clark kent.... i mean, yeah. they're destined to suffer. i don't know kennedy johnson that well but i enjoyed warworld, and tbh, i love ALL of superman's kids. call me clown too, it's ok. i know there's no hope for any of them to lead any kind of meaningful life on account of being his children, adopted or not, but i do love how their characters fit into the broader narrative. unfortunately, i did not know he was using otho and osul to substitute for what would have been OG chris, but tbh, that does not surprise me.

just like it doesn't surprise me how a lot of fandumb is quick to blame pink capitalism as to why jon was revealed as bisexual and not, like, the fact that bendis didn't DO anything with jon after aging him up. homie was just floating in the 31st century macking on a telepath and looking like tom welling circa 2005 😂😂😂 listen, the gays are being fed for the time being. tomorrow they might decide we're not worth the hassle, but for now, we get to see cute pride specials with superman and his pinkette since no one's bold enough to write a series of elgibbityqueue elseworlds where clark gets to mack on john henry irons and jimmy olsen.

but i digress! i love those superkids! i love chris and jon! i hope bendis comes back and destroys the rest of this continuity so we can finally force editorial to commit to character bibles, and hire editors who aren't writing books that might be easy to adapt into shitty tv shows and movies. i also hope the next wave of dc blockbusters flop. plus i want kon el to kiss bart allen. i am a woman of multitudes.

#i thought most of pre-flashpoint fans left this hellsite gkjdxhfgkhdfgfd #thank you for proving me wrong #real talk #dc comics #superfam #lor zod #chris kent #jon kent #otho ra #osul ra #superman

[stranger-who-writes-fiction]

NBD just crying over Action Comics 1060 (in a good way but also a sad way because DC is being VERY DUMB and ending PKJ’s run in favor of a Jason Aaron Bizarro filler arc ohhhhhh how I weep bitter tears of frustration)

…Anyways, spoilers!

So 1060 is the penultimate installment of PKJ’s (stellar, spectacular, phenomenal, brilliant, top-tier) run on Action Comics and I just want to applaud him—for a lot of things, really, but in *this* specific case, I wanna stand and cheer because he’s making it EXTREMELY CLEAR that the twins (who are not actually twins) are in fact, Clark’s kids. No question, no ambiguity; Otho calls him papa, Clark refers to her as his daughter, and he’s willing to travel through LITERAL HELL to get her back.

It’s entirely possible that future writers will try to get rid of these kids, but I appreciate that PKJ has made it *very* difficult for them. XD Any retcon they’d come up with would be so messy. (Of course, saying this, I realize that the more depressingly realistic outcome here isn’t that writers actively try to erase them, but rather, will probably sideline/ignore them, trot them out for generic precocious kids stuff every now and then, and wait for the next line-wide reboot to ‘streamline’ Clark aka toss out anything mildly interesting and/or additive to Clark’s corner of the DCU.)

Right. Sorry. Salty tangent. XD

So anyways here’s some panels that tugged on my ‘Aunt Kara’ heartstrings.

‘I know sweetie. I know. It’s so hard, not knowing.’ HOW VERY DARE.

There’s also a really great page wherein Kara gets Osul to calm down by reminding him of a…I think Phaelosian legend? Or possibly Kryptonian, I know she was trying to find stuff for them in a previous issue.

(Went back and it’s actually the House of Ra fable; the House of El’s is ‘Nightwing and Flamebird’, Ra’s is ‘Red Son and Starchild’.)

I love that Lois lets Kara and Osul have that moment, that space; I maintain that while Clark has a better handle on getting what the kids went through on Warworld given that he was there, and Lois obviously has more experience with raising kids that have unique needs thanks to Jon being half alien, but *Kara* is more readily equipped to sympathize with Otho and Osul’s struggles with transitioning to Earth life, based on her current, canon characterization. (Which is, uhhhh…Woman of Tomorrow and alsoooooo…Rebirth? Maybe? WoT is def canon, the recent SG one shot visually referenced Kara’s departure from Argo.) But I digress!

Speaking of the kids’ struggles…Otho is Going Through It. The stuff with Sister Shadow (AKA Norah Stone AKA evil daughter of an alt universe Bruce and Talia) trying to tempt her to the dark side by preying on her trauma/difficulty adapting to her new home and revealing a future, tyrannical version of herself is some wonderfully juicy character work, both from the perspective of fleshing out Otho AND being additive to Superman’s roster of villains; that’s something I love about PKJ’s approach to world building overall. Yes, he’s revamped some of Superman’s established bad guys (Metallo, Mongul) but he’s also added awesome new foes, like Norah Stone, and Pyrrhos.

I really hope DC lets him do like. A mini series on his original Kryptonian/House of El characters. I would honestly love to read about all these cool new, additive elements, than deal with the Luthor cameo fest over in Superman rn. XD

In conclusion: DC once again shying away from anything interesting and new with Superman in favor of the safe status quo. -_- I mean, I hope I’m wrong. I hope the new ‘Superman Superstars’ opt to build on the solid foundation PKJ has set up. But given what happened with Bendis? Creators’ absolute refusal to incorporate any of the canon he built, because they knew DC would walk it back ASAP? (And the Superman group editor openly admitting that was his number one priority as soon as he GOT THE JOB???) Just shows a complete lack of faith in your creators, and doesn’t really give me too much hope for one of the few remaining titles I look forward to each month.

…but hey, hopefully Marilyn Moonlight will be neat??? XD

(Also LET A WOMAN WRITE A MAIN SUPERMAN BOOK YOU COWARDS.)

#long post #dc comics #action comics #action comics spoilers #sg post #kinda #I was enjoying the flagship Superman title… #and then Campbell left and Williamson doubled down on Luthors XD #so yeeeeah it’s firmly back in ‘meh’ territory

[thevindicativevordan]

Any thoughts on Rebirth era of Superman?

Short answer is that it brought me back to the character after I had stopped reading, due to an unending stream of low quality crossovers derailing everything. The long answer is more complicated.

Tomasi's Superman run is like a Yin-Yang symbol. First half is all good except for one bad arc. The back half is all terrible except for the finale. First half does a great job of balancing the wholesome family vibes with horror and action to keep the tension high. Yes you got Jon Kent as a cute kid - Jurgens may have been Jon's father but Tomasi was his daddy in terms of fleshing him out, the Jonathan Kent to Jurgens Jor-El - but Tomasi really put the kid through hell. He accidentally kills his own cat with heat vision, and boy were some people butthurt about that. Personally I loved it, events like that sold me on the struggle of raising a kid who has Superman's powers but not Superman's control.

Jon had a lot of fire and spunk to him, not as much of Lois as I liked (I still firmly believe he should be a Spider-Man type shit talker because of Lois, not a "I know you're better than this" like his dad), but him slugging Damian was a hoot. Tomasi's Clark for the most part was fine, he got that Clark could be an angry dude like when Clark was ready to kick Bruce and Damian's asses after they kidnapped Jon, but Tomasi's Clark was usually pretty flat and Jon was the clear main character. The weirdness of Hamilton simmering under the surface that culminated in Black Dawn was great, like Stranger Things before Stranger Things. Kathy and Jon were cute together. Oh and Tomasi writes a great Manchester Black, that scene of Black freezing Supes heat vision midair to light a cig then sending it back in his face? Hilarious! That his master plan involved trying to corrupt Jon into being the Superman he wanted made sense, and fit with the run's focus on Clark attempting to guide his son into becoming a hero.

The bad arc for the first half was Multiplicity, terrible story with boring filler art. I defy any of you to tell me who the big bad of that story was without looking it up. A multiversal Supermen team up should've been one of the standout arcs, but instead it became a precursor to the back half of the run. Whenever Tomasi tried to focus on just Clark, he clearly didn't have much to say, and the whole story ended up as a weird tangent that went nowhere and never amounted to anything.

After Black Dawn however, we got months of boring filler where Supes clashed with Sinestro and went on a vacation to D.C. with Jon and Lois where Tomasi unleashed his inner boomer to complain about kids not respecting the troops enough. Imperius Lex was a lame way to wrap up the SuperLex storyline, that should've come as a result of Lex refusing to accept that there are lines heroes don't cross because his ego won't accept anything bigger than his own wants. What should have unfolded as a slow disillusionment on Lex's part over the limitations being a hero in the Superman mold places on him, instead became a rushed arc where Lex rage quits because Supes doesn't trust him enough. Thankfully the finale was strong, the Bizarroverse arc was great, Tomasi found that balance of humor, wholesomeness, action, and horror right at the end. Scene where Bizarro bails on his son hit hard for me, and all of the Bizarros were funny to read. Issue 45 where the Kents leave Hamilton hit hard even though I was ready for a change.

Jurgens Action meanwhile was mostly mediocre. Only two arcs stand out in my memory, one good, one awful. The good one was the Godslayers arc where Jurgens amusingly did a better job of handling the Civil War 2 premise than his soon-to-be successor Bendis did. A nice story about Supes grappling with his distaste and distrust of Lex vs. his want to believe Lex can actually change. The other arc solidified Jurgens as the worst Zod writer for me, it's the Booster Gold one right before Action 1000. He loves MoS so why the hell does he insist on writing Zod as only being able to scream KNEEL instead of going with the much more nuanced Shannon portrayal? I am a fan of evil family man Zod though, kudos to Jurgens for that. Other big problem is that the Booster Gold arc is all about Gold stopping Supes from going back and changing things because he needs to accept that the past is the past... except when Lois, Jon, and Sam all get killed while Superman is away, then Gold goes back in time and prevents their deaths without any acknowledgement of how hypocritical that is! It's feebly justified by Gold with Supes already giving up so much (which I guess amounts to Gold being ok with time travel changes if the scale is small enough), but come on Jurgens, way to undermine your very own story! Jurgens Lois & Clark mini remains his best post-Triangle Era Superman work imo.

Of the two major crossovers, Super Sons of Tomorrow was awful while Superman Reborn managed the impressive feat of making none of Superman's origins canon (because Johns dragging his feet with Doomsday Clock meant they couldn't recanonize the Legion of Superheroes), but at least Gleason and Mahkne's art was great. Last time Mxy got to play a major role in anything, and I remain amused that Jurgens of all people ended up using Mxy for a similar purpose to what the Superman 2000 crew wanted to do to his era. Man got the last laugh on Morrison, using Mxy to wipe out New 52 Superman until Morrison and PKJ folded some of that era's ideas back in.

By the end Rebirth was in the same spot the New 52 was where I welcomed another change. Some good ideas - namely Jon, Kenan and the Reborn suit (God I miss that suit) - came out of this era and for that I am thankful. But it's not the ideal era for me the way it is for some, and nostalgia has made people forget that it often stumbled in the same way the New 52 did.

#superman #superman rebirth #peter tomasi #patrick gleason #dan jurgens

[nightskywonderer]

I'm not familiar with most of the DC comics regarding Superman so you can provide me with information to get a better understanding of the Lois & Clark pairing. As a kid, one thing I never understood about the Clark & Lois pairing is that she seemed to be more infatuated with Superman than Clark Kent. Whenever I would watch a cartoon series based on Superman this seemed to be the premise 90% of the time. I'm aware that Lois didn't know that they're the same person, but why would someone want to date a person who likes their alter ego but not their civilian self? Wouldn't that be a telltale sign that they don't really like you for you? Or wouldn't date you if you were two separate people?

That's one thing I never understood as a kid.

I can’t provide any information of understanding to that pairing because I don’t understand it myself. One reason being is what you’ve stated yourself. It’s all telling, not much showing.

What I’ve read and saw in comics and tv/movies has not nor will it ever convince me Lois even liked Clark. Lois was infatuated with Superman. The triangle of two which is childish and stupid to me. Clark was not being true to himself. If you can’t be 💯 from jump, how can you trust that person truly? Romanticizing lies? Where was the repercussions? It was actually history revisionism. They are suppose to be equals yet Clark is putting on a front. This was the dynamic for decades. The movies with Reeve showed how unhealthy the relationship was and theirs is predicated on Clark being a country bumpkin or which he is NOT the “woe is me for not being human” even the movies with Bosworth and Adams too.

The marriage was virtually forced on the comics and in comics she was never that into him. Just happened out the blue to accommodate the wedding on tv. He had to tell her his secret she never saw it, or him. Which is just awful because again, we are expected to believe they are so in love and meant to be etc etc, yet what builds a relationship was never there in the first place. Clark has been written to say Lois knows him more than anyone? Oh really? So why didn’t she know Clark Kent and Superman was one in the same for so long? The idea of the pairing has gotten by or got together rather arbitrarily just because "they've always been together.” Lois is by default because that’s her role. The love interest. That’s not a true challenge. Keep in mind also, the TV show is where the awful idea of choosing one identity over the other was reinforced even more since John Byrne had done so as well. “Clark is who I am, Superman is what I do” is and will always be a trash take. He is Clark/Kal-El/Superman all the same as one man. Ignoring or belittling part of himself to be accepted and fit in should not be. This is part of the problem with why Superman is in such a stagnant state. There’s no challenge, it’s just what it is and fans are suppose to settle for it. Not I.

It is on record, DC tried to undo the marrige the moment they did it because they felt it boxed him in. But they were stuck and had to try to make it work. And they do so by forcing out dated troupes and the biggest lie...he needs her to have humanity. BULLSHIT

He is a hero...he is supposed to have a moral compass and care for humanity because he was raised well and makes choices to help others etc and he considers us his adopted planet and people. WTF he needs her to have humanity?! So he needs to be romantically leashed to one human for this when the DCU is so diverse? No other people or races have emotion and care for their own? This care for humanity shit is just a kind of veiled bigotry, xenophobia, and borderline racism. I hated the notion of rebirth because they hailed the status quo as being right and true given the privileged American spoon fed lifestyle.

He is written as an idiot because women like Lana Lang and Diana loved him as he was. Lana is the girl next door, childhood best friend, the first love, high school sweet heart. She is the first to know of Clark’s truth, besides the Kents. They drifted apart to follow their own paths of adulthood yet remain close trusted friends.

Diana is the Goddess of Truth. She loves life…all life, and wants everything to be the very best they can be and live their wholehearted truth. With Clark, she sees a man that can truly be a leader and inspiration for better. To bring peace and unite worlds and cultures. This is what Superman was suppose to do and represent as well and yet, for years, he settles with living lies in a comfort bubble, repress himself as to who he is. Diana encourages him to do and be better. Not as some dictator or whatever bullshit detractors try to claim, but a world where everyone can feel free to express who they are and what they believe in without fear of being judged. This is why I love Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple. They are free birds. Their relationship is built on trust, honesty, and mutual respect. They are friends first and build to more over time. It’s not something that’s set by default. That’s what makes their relationship even more genuine to me.

#superman #wonder woman #superman and wonder woman #wonder woman and superman #dc comics #superwonder #supermanwonderwoman #power couple #clark kent #diana prince

[ecoamerica]

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