#anti grey jedi

[short-wooloo]

Now that the trailer is out, it's probably best that I get this out of the way before acolyte releases

The Jedi are right about the Force and the dark side

The Jedi did not lose their way

The Jedi were not corrupted

The genocide of the Jedi was not their fault

The Jedi are not wrong for being part of the Republic, it is in fact a good thing

The Jedi are not arrogant for thinking the sith are gone

and while we're at it the sith are evil, always, end of discussion

The Jedi do not steal children

If someone wants to leave the Jedi, that's allowed, no one will stop them

The Jedi are right about attachment

Attachment is not love (SW uses the Buddhist definition because Lucas is a Buddhist and the Jedi are based off Buddhist monks, Buddhism defines attachment as being possessive or unwilling to let go of people or things)

The Jedi do not forbid emotions, they forbid being controlled by your emotions, you must control them

The Jedi are not forbidden from loving people, nor are they celibate, they just can't get married (big whup) because their duties must come first

Being peacekeepers doesn't preclude the Jedi from fighting in war, sometimes to keep the peace you have to fight back, especially when its against tyranny, see WWII (or Ukraine today)

Gray jedi are not a thing

The Jedi are not slavers or complicit in slavery

Oh and of course, the Jedi are not elitists for not training non Force sensitives, (Han voice) that's not how the Force works, dave filoni broke the rules so he could shoehorn sabine into a Jedi (to give the benefit of the doubt, I do believe sabine's role as ahsoka's apprentice was meant for an original character but things got condensed by executives, so maybe filoni isn't entirely to blame here)

Feel free to add anything I forgot

Do not, DO NOT!! add anything Jedi critical, I'm done with it and won't hear it, don't have something nice to say? Then go away, I will block on sight, either reblog without comment (either in the reblog or the notes) or don't interact at all

#wooloo-writes #wooloo writes #star wars #sw #jedi #jedi order #pro jedi #in defense of the jedi #the acolyte critical #the acolyte #sw acolyte #anti the acolyte #anti acolyte #acolyte critical #star wars the acolyte #anti filoni #anti dave filoni #dave filoni critical #the jedi were right #the jedi did nothing wrong #george lucas #anti gray jedi #anti grey jedi

[foundfamilynonsense]

I don’t think some people realize why the gray jedi thing pisses some of us off so badly.

Imagine you like lord of the rings and you decide to look around the fandom.

And it turns out that 10+ or something years ago someone wrote a piece of fanfiction where they rewrote the rules for the ring. So instead of it only having one master and corrupting everyone else that tried to use it, it sometimes chooses to take a new master if it feels the person is worthy of it. And therefore this author’s self-insert OC can now use the one ring in all its glory without getting turned crazy.

This fanfic gets published (as some fanfics do) and most of the fandom has read it and loves it.

Now, when you (someone who has only dealt with canon works written by Tolkien) see this fic you go… huh. That’s nice, but it goes against the very point of the books and the lore tolkien created. So while it’s a good fic I’m not going to interact with it.

But then people keep harassing you for taking about/ writing the one ring the way tolkien wrote it to begin with.

And they SWEAR that this is the Actual lore of the one ring, and that YOU are wrong. Which is completely insane to you, because FRODE TOOK IT TO MORDOR FOR A REASON. There is only one lord of the ring!! That’s literally the name of the series that’s what it’s about!! If what the fandom was insisting about was possible, there would be no plot. In the original books.

This is why we are so upset over gray jedi!! Bc if it was possible to use the dark side but still be a good guy then wtf is wrong with Anakin? Why the fuck did Darth Vader fall to the dark side? Why did Luke struggle so much? If you can have your cake and eat it too why are the movies so fuckin long?? Why did Luke fail against Vader in Empire? what lesson did he learn in Return? Why would the movie be called Return of the Jedi if Luke had not learned the Jedi ways????

You can write OC’s as gray jedi all you want but when you start forcing it into canon it literally ruins the movies!

#star wars #pro jedi #anti gray jedi #anti grey jedi

[antianakin]

I think if we can accept that there are things Jedi are shown capable of doing in canon that Cal is incapable of doing in the games due to video game mechanics (i.e. he cannot carve through locked doors or walls, and he cannot jump more than about 10 feet without dying), then we can accept the opposite as well: there are things Jedi are shown to be INCAPABLE of doing in canon that Cal IS capable of doing in the games due to video game mechanics (using the dark side in fights all the time without any real impact on him). Yes, Cal was given a "dark side" power-up ability, and yes, you can continue to use it for him over and over again and it seemingly has no real negative impact on his character. But this is how video games work, every time we get given an ability in the game, Cal is able to keep it for the rest of the game in order to explore new areas and fight new things. But that doesn't mean that that's how using the dark side actually would work for Cal within canon if he were shown in something like a film or TV show rather than a video game.

And if you look at the actual STORY within the game rather than the basic gameplay options, it's made pretty clear that Cal using the dark side is akin to losing himself. He CANNOT use it without that risk being there and he has to keep letting it go. The first time he uses it on Nova Garon, Merrin stops him by saying they've both lost enough people and she doesn't want to lose Cal, too. When they talk on Tanalorr before making it to the Temple, Cal expresses fear of losing himself. After the funeral, Cal says to Cere that he nearly lost himself during that fight with Bode. Over and over again they let you know through the STORY that Cal using the dark side is a bad thing that he isn't using without consequence even though the ability exists in gameplay without any impact.

Cal isn't a Gray Jedi, that's not how it works. The game is doing the best it can to tell you that the dark side WILL ultimately cause Cal to lose himself if he keeps using it even though it has to let you keep using the ability due to how video game rules work. Cal is a Jedi, full stop. The dark side is bad and twists everyone who uses it, full stop. Stop pretending video game gameplay rules are the same as the story it's actually telling when the dialogue practically spells it out for you.

#star wars #jedi survivor #jedi survivor spoilers #cal kestis #anti gray jedi #anti grey jedi #gray jedi critical #grey jedi critical

[jedi-enthusiast]

Here's another post repeating something I've said in the Jedi Appreciation server, since apparently I have my best thoughts whenever I'm being a salty little shit about people being anti-Jedi, but-

----------

The funny thing is, people are so obsessed with the idea of "grey Jedi" partly because they want their favs/ocs to care about people--and apparently "Jedi are heartless and not allowed to love anyone or feel empathy blah blah blah" (which isn't even true btw).

But also because the popular thing now is morally grey heros/villains/love interests/characters/etc. and everyone wants to be able to make their favorite characters/ocs/whatever make those morally grey decisions or do morally grey things, so they can be "badass" or what have you.

...but when the Jedi actually make morally grey decisions in canon because they've literally been backed so far into a corner that they have no other choice and the only options they have are either bad or worse....suddenly the Jedi are "evil" and "deserved what they got" because they weren't all-powerful omniscient paragons of perfection.

The hypocrisy is astounding ngl

#star wars #sw prequels #pro jedi #in defense of the jedi #anti anakin apologists #anti grey jedi

[intermundia]

your post about annoying star wars fans (the jedi are a cult meme post) reminded me of a conversation i had with someone at work about grey jedi and how they thought it was so cool and it's what they jedi shouldve been and . frankly sometimes I wonder if I consumed the same media as them

left a lot of ranting tags on your post about this but it boiled down to fuck the concept of grey jedi it makes me so angry

yeahhh man i feel that. it's like... congrats, you Broke Star Wars. i saw an insightful analogy in a post on here about why it feels so wrong, aka it's like in Lord of the Rings if people insisted that Gandalf could have taken the One Ring and be the world's biggest badass wizard, without any risk of being corrupted entirely by its malice. that mentality completely ignores the way that the Ring/the Dark Side are defined as working in lieu of an obvious power fantasy. it's just not how it works!! the existence of grey jedi would totally undermine Anakin's story, ignoring the story's commentary on the nature of greed, the meaning of good and evil, and everything that makes it beautiful and true. it's just so depressing and annoying to try to have a conversation with someone who has rejected the way canon works, substituted their own rules, and now expects you to agree that their version is better than what actually happened. it's just Not.

#sw salt #anti grey jedi #lmao #sw

[gritsandbrits]

Look as much as i am for moral ambiguity sometimes i wish people would just stop trying to force it on every little thing. The force isn't grey it is not a form of moral ambiguity. The dark side is very much evil. It fucks you up mentally emotionally and physically. You can't just explain it away as "well I'll make sure i don't fall into it completely I'll just use it to help people" that's just leaving you open to corruption. You can fight it all you want but eventually it does pull you down.

Meanwhile the Light Side (dare i say the TRUE Force) is not corrupt. It represents everything good like love, peace, healthy boundaries, compassion, redemption. But also the power of choice. So to see Jedi who embody/respects these traits suddenly turned into "grey" Jedi bc they don't go the traditional way. misses the point. When it comes to the force you HAVE to choose light or dark there is no third option and you can't make up a third option just to take the easy way out.

#anti grey jedi #Light Side #pro jedi #pro mace windu

[david-talks-sw]

George Lucas & Karen Traviss' visions of Star Wars are NOT the same...

So whenever I come across this image:

I keep in mind that it's from a book written by Karen Traviss, who is a brilliant author (I adored Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines and Sacrifice) but whose stance on Anakin, Yoda & the Jedi and Star Wars morality is this:

As opposed to George Lucas' stance on Anakin, Yoda & the Jedi and Star Wars' morality, which is this:

In a children's story about Light and Dark, good and evil, selflessness vs selfishness, George Lucas marks the Empire as absolutely evil and the Rebels as absolutely good, in the Original Trilogy.

In the Prequels, the situation is more complex (the Jedi are drafted into a war and forced to do things they know they shouldn't be doing, but have to for the greater good; the Sith bring about order to a corrupt government) but the morality stays the same... the selfish, greedy Sith are absolutely evil and the selfless, compassionate Jedi are absolutely good.

That's George's thesis.

And, as a character, Yoda's function is to deliver that thesis. It's no wonder why Lucas treats Yoda's words as absolutely correct:

Yoda is Lucas' mouthpiece in the Prequels, his self-insert.

George Lucas' narrative frames Yoda as objectively right.

So when Karen Traviss questions the Jedi, particularly Yoda's character and wisdom, she's disagreeing with George Lucas' thesis.

Which is fair. Traviss, is a different person than Lucas, she's an ex-journalist with a more "grey" view of the world and a different philosophy re: fiction aimed at children. "Death of the author" and all that. Again, fair enough.

And if you like Travis' interpretation and philosophy more than George's, if her read resonates with you more... also fair enough.

But the EU is not a reliable source on Lucas' vision.

I've talked about this in MUCH more detail here, but if you do care about George Lucas' vision, then maybe don't draw from the Expanded Universe, which includes content written by authors who expressly disagree with him, like Traviss.

Sounds logical, but for some reason people will read the above-posted Dooku quote and treat it as reflective of Lucas' vision, when it's not the case.

George Lucas' Dooku doesn't have an issue with Yoda or the Jedi (at least not openly, as Darth Tyranus, the Sith Lord he wants them all dead). Dooku's issue is with the Senate and the Republic.

George Lucas specifically added that most Jedi share Dooku's concerns. Before he's revealed to be a mass-murdering, Sith who enslaves neutral systems, the Jedi think he makes a good point and are even reluctant to consider him a murder suspect.

But let's not start saying that Lucas' Prequels are meant to be about "the Jedi's failure" and "Dooku being right that the Jedi are corrupt.

Because that's not the case.

If that's how you see them, great. It's certainly how Traviss saw them. To each their own, authorial intent be damned.

But it's not what they were about, to Lucas. Stating the contrary is... I dunno, lying? Rewriting history?

It's as if I got hired to write a Lord of the Rings prequel seen from Gandalf's POV. And y'know what, maybe I don't like Gandalf. So I write him as a scheming asshole going “myahahahah, fuck hobbits! I’m gonna let them keep the One Ring so a bunch Nazgûl will swoop through the Shire and murder them!” and suddenly, everyone starts writing posts about the notion that “Growing up is realizing that Tolkien always intended for Gandalf to be the secret villain of LOTR!” as if that had always been the case and I didn't just reframe him that way retroactively.

Finally, I'd also encourage you to read @rendar-writes' well-made point here about the fact that, while claiming she "doesn't give the answers", Traviss nonetheless shows a clear anti-Jedi bias.

#There’s a difference between interpreting the story the way you want to #and saying that your interpretation’s is what the author originally intended to convey #star wars #george lucas #karen traviss #anakin skywalker #jedi order #dooku #meta #collection of quotes #lucas quotes #expanded universe

[shootingstarpilot]

Out of pure interest :

What was the most braindead, stupid, media literacy lacking, idiotic take on the Jedi you've seen so far.

Like we all know the classic genocide apologists, Stanakins, Grey Jedi edgelords ect. But was there ever something truly jar drobbingly stupid you've witnessed ?

HAHAHAHA DEFINITELY ANSWERING THIS IN A TIMELY MANNER YESSIREE-

But, in all seriousness, this is an excellent question, and thank you so much for it! Honestly, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with all the classics there, but I guess there's one thing that baffles me the most- and this isn't so much a singular take as it is a trend-

Why do anti-Jedi folks seem so insistent on ignoring Lucas' words?

Like- fine. You know how it is, everyone's entitled to their own takes on a piece of media regardless of the author's intentions. It's a significant part of fandom activity. But a tendency I see a lot on pro-Jedi posts is anti-Jedi folks straight up ignoring included testimonials from Lucas in their attempted rebuttals that actually, no, that's not the story that was being told-

Look. Have your own take. That's fine. But there's a difference between that and trying to put your own interpretation in the author's mouth when the author in question has repeatedly explained the themes of his story! Explore these ideas all you want on your own time, on your own blog, in your own fics. But don't try to argue that it's the story Lucas was trying to tell.

#star wars #discourse #pro-jedi #just a trend that i've observed occasionally #word of god does not and should not affect fic writing #but it is the final say on discussions about the creator's intentions #discussing SUBCONSCIOUS influences is another story

[jessequinnfirstofhername]

controversial opinion (I don't think it is tho) : I think people who hate on Shin are kind of unreasonable to be honest? It seems the core hatred for the character was born when the wolfwren ship got celebrated by the stars of the Ahsoka series, by conflicting ships. The idea she is a "bloodthirsty, violent, psychopath" is... not really founded when you look at every minute she is on screen. She is on the opposite side of a war, so yes she kills people who see as "good", but there are no moments in the series where the villainy she is accused of truly comes out.

The truth is that aside from cool fights here and there, Shin doesn't talk that much and doesn't make that many decisions that are not someone else's (her Master's.) So the very few words she does say and the very few decisions she does make on her own matter all that much more. The fact Filoni made sure that the stab wound made to Sabine is visibly at an angle certainly explained her survival, but it seems people who hate Shin reject the nation of asking themselves "why stab someone non fataly?" Because yeah... why do that? Another few moments is her pursuing her fight with Sabine in her rage, stopped by Baylan. And last big action she commits on her own is questioning her master about the promise he made to Sabine. Breaking the promise achieves their goal, there is little since to questioning it if ahe is as evil and bad as she is framed to be. She doesn't have a clean slate, but people can love Anakin for commotting the jedi equivalent of a school shooting and they can love Maul for killing plenty of beloved characters. Shin's crimes pale in comparison for the level of hate she gets.

My opinion is that she is villainized this hard because certain people think that if Shin is bad and evil and crazy, she won't be shipped with Sabine Wren. And when you hate a character for what people think of the character inside their heads... you kind of lost the plot?

I just think so many people are missing so much of the mysteries and intrigues around Shin specifically. Baylan knew the jedi order, he knows the millenias of history between the sith and the jedi, but Shin? She wields a red lightsaber and has a jedi padawan braid. When she talked about a jedi, she said "just like me." She has no conception of this hard solid line between light and dark, she sees opposing goals, she doesn't hate the jedi, Baylan certainly seems to have no hate for them and he is her master. Clearly he never taught her something that goes against what he fundamentally believes. So we are left with a New Empire hired padawan of a former jedi, who cannot draw the line between the light and the dark fully, who relates to a jedi and value to some degree promises made to them, who now has to confront the other side in a serious way to know where she stands in the full big picture of the fate of the galaxy. COME ONE THIS IS SO COOL.

Why so much hate? All for a ship? Shin to me was the highlight of the Ahsoka series. Many speculate she will be a jedi and I think they may be right, I think Baylan and Ahsoka are different shades of grey, and their padawan are destined to choose to be jedi like those who trained their masters. Or maybe their own separate shade. People summarizing Shin as a villain to vanquish really seem just focused on keeping Sabine away from her, but whether they remain nemesis or become allies, it is a bit ridiculous not to think they are doomed to have plenty more of story between them.

I like Shin! I also like Wolfwren, I think it's a cute ship.

However, I'm not really involved in the fandoms (or the anti-fandoms) for either, so I don't know too much about The Discourse. I can't really speak much on this issue.

The only thing I feel confident speaking on is this: the fact that Shin is scrutinized for actions that are far, far less severe than what- for example- Anakin Skywalker has done probably has less to do with Wolfwren discourse and more to do with plain old sexism.

If Anakin Skywalker was a female character, we'd live in a world where the character would not be being brought back for nostalgia, and her actress's career would've be destroyed.

A female Hayden Christensen never would've gone on to do movies like Jumper, and there would be no female equivalent of The Haydenaissance.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.

That was a really interesting ask, Anon. I'd love to know what people more involved with the Shin/Wolfwren fandom think!

#star wars #shin hati #wolfwren #ahsoka series #jesse’s star wars confessional

[doctoraxiom]

It's actually fascinating to me how much the "palworld is plagiarism and uses ai" post is going around.

First of all the "AI" game that that studio released seems to be a tongue in cheek criticism of AI artists not having talent (but feel free to give me more info here, I only know what reading the product page for AI: Art Impostor tells me)

Second of all the developer being interested in generative AI for games isn't inherently a sign of plagiarism**- I intend to use generative AI for my games that is trained on MY OWN ART. It's not too different from procedural generation at that point because the algorithm itself (or it's training and fine tuning) becomes the art and you're not plagiarizing from anyone but yourself.

Third of all- knockoff games have existed for-fucking-ever and if it's derivative enough it's not plagiarism. And if you're talking about "plagiarism" of the gameplay since palworld has mechanics from several other genres pretty much copy pasted- I hear you- but no one throws a fit about doomlikes being exactly like other doomlikes, or soulslikes straight up copy pasting souls mechanics without even bothering to come up with an in-universe justification (looking at you, Jedi Fallen Order). I'd argue this is actually more creative than that to turn mechanics from multiple other franchises into a cohesive gameplay experience because putting a mechanic into a totally different game is actually really hard to fine tune into feeling good for the player!

Is a work derivative enough to add something new? Or combine old works in a new and novel way? Palworld definitely seems to combine several known mechanics in a novel and fun way. In the very worst case it's in a grey area.

Also the recent anti-plagiarism mass movement was created to protect small creators from getting bullied out of their due. Who are you trying to protect here? Nintendo? Pokemon was a rip-off of digimon and the jrpg's of that time. You gonna get up in arms about that?

This knee jerk hearing something is indirectly related to AI and assuming everything associated with it is stealing and bad needs to stop.

/endrant

**Also I can't find any direct evidence that they tried to use AI in development! Lots of people expressed interest in generative AI before the techbros hopped on the bandwagon and tried to monetize it as an art-stealing machine. This is not an admission of guilt.

#rant #video game rant #ai rant #palworld #reposted from earlier due to questionable op #leave jerma alone

[short-wooloo]

Friendly reminder that there is no grey jedi code

"But I saw it!"

That was fake, it's made up, by fans, no SW material, in any canon, mentions it, the grey code is a spectacular case of fan created content becoming conflated with canon

(There's also no "grey force" either)

#star wars #wooloo-writes #wooloo writes #sw #anti grey jedi #anti gray jedi #grey jedi don't exist #gray jedi are not a thing #there is no grey side of the force shut up

[divinecomedyproductions]

Unpopular RWBY Opinions

Some of these things are incorporated into my reimagined RWBY AU(not all of them) and my original stories

1. Arkos, BlackSun, Iceberg, and Renora should have survived and get a happy ending, I don’t give a damn about Pyrrha’s name or allusion.

2. RWBY didn’t have to be a super dark epic, it’s become pretentious. Maybe more akin to Star Wars or Justice League Unlimited

3. Adam should have just been an initial antagonist who doesn't commit super horrible things, the psycho abusive ex was melodramatic and dumb. Wether he joins the good guys or ends tragically is up to anybody.

4. Maybe we were better off without the Salem/Ozma conflict and have WTCH as individual arc villains with their own minions

5. I think Roman, Cinder, and their gang should have been just morally grey found family characters like Boba Fett, some kind of gang of thieves akin to those in Baccano or something and just help or hinder the cast like Team Rocket or something but not as silly. 

With Cinder and Roman becoming a couple and kinda like a "Gomez and Mortica" pair and Emerald and Merc hooking up, and Emerald and Neo would be like their daughters and Merc the son-in-law. I might recycle that idea for one of my original stories thats inspired by Skullgirls and Baccano who's protagonist sis something of an Anti-Cinder and an Anti-Torchwick with a ragtag gang fighting against a corrupt government run by a demonic-powered mafia.

6. Maybe RWBY could have been more like a Dragonball/Fairy Tail universe instead in terms of tone and narrative structure, and that wouldn’t have been a bad thing.

7. At the very least, Ozma and Salem could have been an explanation of the origin of the world and just something that would be rediscovered overtime and Ozpin and his circle are some keepers of ancient myth or something. Like The Jedi Order or The Time Lords or something idk.

8. Kinda feel Oscar wasn’t necessary, as much as I like him

9. Maybe the corrupt SDC and Bad Dad Jacques was also needless, maybe just one of the few good underdog companies in Atlas and Jack being initially a bit too hard on Weiss due to upholding the family’s honor and chivalry but means well and initial harsh nature involving his wife, a scientist who worked with Dr.Watts and Dr. Poldenia, being murdered at the hands of an anti-Faunus milita group and Watts having some role in it. Mostly because I'm just exhausted of the "Bad Dad" trope

10. Have Watts have a megacorporation and be the corrupt company in Atlas instead who’s responsible for their tech and uses unethical Faunus labor in his factories(even though in secret Watts just hates everybody) instead and have a bitter rivalry with Jacques and The SDC, especially due to Jack and Arthur’s personal history regarding Mrs.Schnee.

11. Hazel should have just been a Meta-Knight like character, a good guy but on nobody’s side with a grudge against Ozpin for understandable reasons, he has bear claw-like gauntlet weapons, and becomes a rival to Yang seeing his sister in her and is the “Papa Bear” to her “Goldilocks”

12. Bumbleby is a bad ship and it’s fandom are filled with bitter shrews who use it as representation despite how toxic it is.

13. Disagreeing with Monty’s vision isn’t inherently malicious.

14. I agree with @sytokun making Blake basically a Princess and have loving parents who are also influential was also dumb. Make her an Orphan with the WF/Team RWBY her found family instead. Or I would at least give her a “dead dad” with her Mom living in Menagerie but not as a “Chieftess” aka a QUEEN. They called themselves Cheiftan and Chieftess because it sounded cute.

#rwde #rwby #unpopular opinion #rwby au

[antianakin]

@theneutralmime

I'm gonna start with the easiest part of this and assure you grey Jedi are NOT a thing in canon (yet). Filoni seems to potentially be heading down a road where he WILL make grey Jedi canon via Ahsoka and Sabine (and maybe Shin), but at no point has the term ever actually come up in anything officially canon. Even if Filoni makes it canon, though, it will never be LUCAS canon.

Balancing the Force is about eliminating the Sith. The Force is, generally, balanced on its own, but the Sith cause an unbalance because they're exceedingly selfish and greedy and have the power to do something about it and cause it to spread. It's ABSOLUTELY not about having the same amount of Jedi and Sith or the same amount of "light" and dark. In essence, balance and "light" mean the same thing. If the Force is balanced, it just means there isn't an excess of darkness (which is generally only ever CAUSED if there's Sith around doing their thing).

Balance within yourself is usually considered to be acknowledging that darkness exists and is entirely natural (because it's caused by natural emotions like fear, pain, and anger) but then choosing NOT TO ACT ON IT. Balance is about choosing to be selfless and compassionate in SPITE of that darkness. When the Force is unbalanced, it means too many people ARE acting on that darkness which is feeding the dark side of the Force. This is usually caused by things in the galaxy being influenced by the Sith, like Palpatine corrupting the Senate through politics causing unrest among the people and then starting a galactic civil war.

While eliminating the Sith isn't going to be a magical cure all to the darkness they cause, it does provide BREATHING ROOM and the opportunity for people to work to do better and that ultimately starts bringing the Force completely back into balance. People will always have the capacity for selfishness and greed within them, but without the Sith, it's a much more manageable problem.

#star wars #the force #balance #sith #jedi #anti grey jedi #anti gray jedi #grey jedi critical #gray jedi critical

[unleashthegoats]

Hey y'all! Loved the new episode, and wanted to chip in on one of the later points - videogames, especially in relation to the "Grey" Jedi concept. Knights of the Old Republic II really did some irreversible damage in that regard, as much as I love the game (though I prefer the first one). Kreia is one of the most central characters in regard to shifting morality debates in Star Wars (in universe and from fans alike) imo, and I'd honestly be super interested in hearing you three cover either or both of the games in the podcast, although I understand that's highly unlikely since none of you have played them. But she is extremely relevant to this topic because she preaches about neutrality and that there's more than just ~dogmatic thinkings of light and dark~, and your relationship with her suffers if you are kind and altruistic and get too rooted in the light side and she's like...one of *the* characters that kind of gets credited with developing a "grey" philosophy in-universe? But people always bring her up as if she's this great point of sensible consideration and not actually, as it turns out, a master manipulator trying to purge the Force from the galaxy (or something like that at least? It's been a while since my last playthrough lol) that lies to you all the time to get you to do what she wants (because she was so crazy bananas both the Jedi and the Sith said "no thank u :)" - well, with a bit more nuance but you get the gist). Really, it's a bit like people falling for Palpatine's anti-Jedi points all over how they talk about her philosophic arguments without bringing that up. But yeah, I thought you might be interested in that. Also, I think KotOR might be what people meant with being able to unlock Dark Side powers as a Light sider but you are absolutely correct that it's a mechanics vs story issue (especially since some powers are indeed alignment-locked AND making dark side choices does impact the character (apart from story, ending and relationships to your party members). It's a bit of a simplistic gimmick, of course, but the further you get into the Dark Side on the alignment, the more it's visible - sickly skin colour, cracks in the skin and flesh, your eyes change...stuff like that. I don't think using Dark Side powers actually pushes you further down the alignment, but the intent is obviously not for Light Siders to mix and match however they like).

Anyway, I'm so sorry for rambling on for so long, but I thought you (or someone, at least :D ) might appreciate that additional info. Keep up the good podcasting! :)

OUR FIRST ASK! I'm so glad you're enjoying the podcast, thank-you so much for listening to us ramble on for an hour once a month!

This is all really interesting! I've read a few metas about the Star Wars video games and the characters within them which is partly why I chose to briefly include them in the episode (and also because I am familiar with Jedi: Survivor which has its own "dark side" mechanic for the main character that was relevant to the discussion). Aside from Jedi: Survivor, I wasn't necessarily referencing any one specific video game, I assume it's probably a thing that's come up more than once.

As far as my reaction to Kreia goes, just based on your description of her, the idea of there being "too much light" just isn't how Lucas's own worldbuilding worked. It's clearly trying to hit on the idea of "balance" being equal amounts of light and dark usage, as opposed to balance being acknowledging darkness EXISTS (in yourself and in the universe) in order to keep yourself from acting on it. There just isn't a way to be "too light" or something like that, there's never "too much" kindness and compassion and selflessness in the world. In this sense, the video games are just going to fall into the same category as the rest of legends and EU stuff, in that they often just do their own thing based on their own interpretations of Star Wars, but it doesn't mean it actually fits with what Lucas himself was trying to get across about the philosophy of the Force and the Jedi in his own stories, and that's primarily what we're using as a base to discuss Star Wars from.

If any of us ends up playing KOTOR, we can certainly try to bring it up more often. I don't think we have any plans of doing more video game stuff currently, but if the KOTOR remake ever comes to pass, maybe I will!

-Mod Sugar

#star wars #kotor #kreia #utg asks

[firewoodwander]

For the mistletoe prompts, Bly/Doom with 13. While dancing? (nooneherebutusghosts)

Mistletoe prompts

@nooneherebutusghosts 🤍

They were never taught anything so frivolous as dancing when they were cadets. Luckily for Bly, Doom has an incredible talent for mimicking the movements and mannerisms of natborns near-perfectly—and Bly has always been rather attuned to following his lead.

He can hear Aayla laughing on the sidelines, a sharp and purely joyful sound. General Billaba comes whirling past a moment later, in the arms of Grey’s favourite captain, just a little more enthusiastic than they are artful in their sweeping spins. Billaba’s cloak swoops and billows around the feet of General Windu who is also leading his embarrassed but devoted teenaged grandpadawan through a smooth waltz in Bly’s peripheral.

He can be grateful, he thinks, that Aayla hasn’t attempted any inevitably less-than-graceful turns about the impromptu dance floor with him.

The Jedi have strung soft glowing lights throughout the greenery and winding paths of the Temple Gardens, which are beautiful enough in the day but something approaching unearthly in the golden night. There’s a substantial orchestra of older initiates who didn’t make it to the battlefield before the end of the war, each set up with delicate instrument in hand, each beaming with pride between every piece they perform for their celebrating audience. Master Yoda perches on a stand in front of their stage and conducts them with a palpable air of satisfaction, even for the Force-inept like Bly.

None of this feels real: not the gardens, nor the gathered mix of clones and Jedi and Navy and down-dressed anti-war politicians. Least of all, Bly thinks, is that he and Doom are both here at the end of it all, alive despite the very many times they scraped themselves back together with sheer force of will.

Doom smiles at him: a small and private thing that never fails to make Bly’s heart turn over and ache. His eyes alight with something horribly soft, almost vulnerable, and reflecting each tiny tree light like he himself is dusted with gold.

Bly looks away. He doesn’t know if he can bear the emotional vortex weighing in his chest quite yet, quite like this. But, over Doom’s shoulder, he spots something familiar in the branches of a nearby fruit tree.

“Oh no,” Doom says, his voice a murmur but his trepidation clear as day. “I know that look.”

Bly grins at him, then steers them gradually between the gathered crowd. “Do you trust me?”

Huffing, Doom tightens his arm around Bly’s waist and leans in close. “Unfortunately.”

“Of course you do. Look up.”

Doom does. His brow furrows for barely a handful of seconds, the scar drawn down the length of his face pulling as his expression changes.

“Mistletoe,” he breathes.

As they watch, a small branch of pale silver berries unfurls and reaches spindly arms down toward them. It’s slow, but not so slow as to be unnoticeable, and Bly hears Doom catch his breath at the unbelievable sight.

“Jedi, huh,” Bly laughs.

Doom looks back down at him. He just stares for a moment, watching Bly’s face. Intent and content to stand under this tree and hold each other close.

“We won the war,” he says eventually. “The Jedi can do whatever the stars they want.”

When he tilts his chin and kisses Bly, Bly moves with him willingly and delighted, imagining the bubbling beginnings of hope taking root around them.

#doom/bly #my loves my darlings #thank you so much for the request!! #writing tag #cloneshipping #mistletoe prompts

[f1tyreslightmyfyre]

We Go Together - Ch. 3

Series Main List

A Jedi!Charles x TIE Fighter Pilot!Max Star Wars AU

Ch. 3 Warnings: Explicit NSFW 18+ Smut (first-time, slight dub-con, frottage); explicit language; hurt/comfort; head wound; discussion of war and death; forced drug addiction (by the Imperial Navy) and associated withdrawal; family separation; Charles tries his hand at teaching and probably needs help

He doesn’t know why he’s still here. The storm broke in the day’s early hours, and even though thick grey clouds still blanket the sky, there’s nothing holding him here. Except… he doesn’t bring himself to move from where he sits on the green, grassy expanse that overlooks the churning sea below. 

The grave of his fighter. And by all rights, it should be his grave, too. 

But instead, he sits just outside the dwelling of the man who saved him, and the strong onshore wind fills his lungs with brackish air. He’s never given a second thought to small, suffocating spaces, but there's just… something about being surrounded by so much open wilderness. Something that whispers along his skin, something that surrounds him and scratches at his soul.

But maybe that’s also Charles’ fault. The man has been nothing but overgenerous, whether in his portions of food or procurement of clothing that fits his broader frame. Nor in sharing his wild theories about TIE pilots’ conditioned mental and physical states… nor in his inquisitive looks with those bright green eyes.

He doesn’t think that he’s ever seen their equal. Not... not that he’s ever thought to look before. 

“I like it.” Charles interrupted gently, flashing a warm, appreciative smile. “It suits you, Max.” 

His frown deepens. He still doesn’t know what to make of that name, either. 

Max. 

At least it’s simple and direct. And, loathe as he is to admit it, Charles’s rationale behind the origin of it does make some sense. But does he dare actually consider using it? Perhaps it would be helpful to ward against any anti-Imperial sentiments as he works his way back to the nearest outpost. Or perhaps it could prove equally useful to root out traitors and rebels and bring them justice. 

A strange, uncomfortable feeling rots in his stomach at the thought. His jaw tenses with frustrated uncertainty as he stares harder out at the sea, watching waves crash into the jagged shoreline. Even with the worst of the supposed withdrawal behind him and the bandage removed from his head, he still doesn’t understand what’s happening to him. 

Why does he notice things that he previously hasn’t? Why does he have doubts that he’s never harbored before? Why is he so absent of that determined clinical drive and instead just content to sit here in the grass as the breeze ruffles his hair? 

His hand clenches at his side in a rush of unbidden muscle-memory reflex. A stab of irritation lances through him as he glares down at it and forces himself to stretch out his fingers, to roll out the tense line of his jaw. He winces at the ache in his muscles and joints as if… as if they’d been locked in tension for so long that they don’t know any other way to exist. 

Another sour wave rolls through his stomach and he swallows against a suddenly dry throat, darting his gaze back out over the midnight sea. 

Maybe… just maybe Charles is right…

But that thought conjures other disturbing, more concerning questions. If Charles is indeed telling the truth, then just how exactly did Charles acquire this knowledge? How can Charles possibly know what the Imperial Starfighter Corps did to him when he himself didn’t even have a clue? He closes his eyes and tries to focus on what he knows about Charles, to find some hint that might betray him. But the only thing that comes to mind is Charles’ unusual, bewitching accent. 

Now that he thinks about it, Charles' accent isn’t far from the elegant, rounded tones of Corulag. Indeed, wouldn’t Charles be the model Corulag Imperial Military Academy student all buttoned up in the severe uniform tunic with his unruly curls tamed by the boxy, standard-issue hat.

That would indeed explain how Charles knows so much. 

His jaw tenses again as a wave of anger rises within him. He may have been at Charles’ mercy since crash landing here - but that’s all going to change. He refuses to let this rotten deserter succeed in abandoning his duty. 

Maybe arriving at the Imperial Output with a worthless traitor as his prisoner will quickly help restore him to active flight status. That’s all he wants, really.  

He isn’t dead. He will keep flying. 

Staring out at the sea, he wills his ship to rise and ignores the disconcerting itch that grows along his skin in response.

Charles walks across the grass, curls catching in the strong onshore wind. It brings the smell of distant rain and ozone, promising another storm on approach. 

He hefts his satchel, adjusting the strap on his shoulder as he crests the hill towards his seaside dwelling. While living at the Jedi Temple - in the middle of a city planet - his youthful fantasy of living on the coast of a sea had been nothing more than a far-fetched dream. But if there is one insignificant upside to exile and extinction, then maybe his cozy, seaside abode is it. 

As he approaches the familiar dark outline, he sees the sharp figure of the pilot. Max sits in the grass with his knees bent, long arms resting atop the joints as he stares out at the rolling, dark blue waves. 

Max’s face betrays his thoughts about the sunken fighter, as does the confused conflict mixed with a strange determination that rolls off him through the Force. No doubt, if Max could recover his ship, he’d fly away just as quickly as he arrived, and the thought piques Charles' curiosity. 

Just how much does Max know about the Force? Does he know that such feats are indeed possible? Does he feel Charles' emotions buzzing along his skin with the same energy as he can feel Max’s? But even if he does, does he know what it means? 

Shoving a hand in his pocket, Charles strolls over towards Max, careful to keep his stride open and easy. Every Force-sensitive nerve ending in him lights up as he stops alongside Max. “I’m glad to see you outside,” he says, looking out over the churning water. “The fresh air is good for you.” 

“Even if it is,” Max sharply answers without looking at him. “I told you that I wasn’t staying.” 

Charles nods for a quiet moment before speaking. “Where will you go?” 

“The nearest Imperial Outpost, of course.” 

"That will still be easier to do with a name, Max." He glances down tentatively. "Have you given that some more thought?"

The pilot's face is disconcertingly neutral as he gives a perfunctory nod. "It is serviceable." 

It's a better answer than Charles has hoped for. A grin tugs at his lips. "I'm glad to hear that. Well, now that you have a name… you'll also need credits for a transport."

Max shakes his head tersely. “Any citizen of the Empire should do their duty to ensure that I can do mine.” 

Charles bites back the wry edge of his smirk. "That kind of loyalty isn't always easy to find here in the outer rim.” 

“Anyone who stands in my way is guilty of treason.” 

Charles blinks down at Max in a moment of consideration before dropping his gaze to the grass and shuffling his feet. He pulls a hand from his pocket, rubbing a non-existent itch on the tip of his nose. “We used to have a garrison here. Some years ago." He says gently. "With full ground and air support.” 

Max’s face visibly perks as he fixes his sharp eyes on Charles. In the muted, cloudy light, those crystal blue depths threaten to drown him and the Force whispers for him to dive in without remorse. A startling, primal connection to this man snaps in place, making Charles' blood run cold. It doesn't make sense - never before has the Force ever compelled him so strongly towards another person. But the longer he loses himself in Max's eyes - just as beautiful as the sea, and just as tempestuous - the more he realizes that the Force has brought Max into his life for a reason.

If only he understands what that reason is.

The silence stretches out, and with a sigh to calm his restless thoughts, Charles lowers to sit in the grass. He folds his legs underneath him as Max's hard gaze never waivers. It should probably be unnerving how much the pilot stares at him, but Charles has become accustomed to it. 

Max’s curious voice carries on the wind. “What did the inhabitants of this planet do to warrant a full garrison? That’s a lot of firepower.” 

Charles wets his upper lip, remembering those dark days all too well. “Rumor had it that they offered sanctuary to an exiled Jedi Knight.” 

Max’s face hardens. “If they were indeed harboring an enemy of the Empire, a posted garrison sounds merciful.” 

“Their ruthless hunt was anything but merciful.” 

Max hums quietly, turning away in a moment of consideration before speaking. “I guess the rumors must have been inaccurate since the garrison detached and this world continued to survive.” He blinks back over at Charles. “Did you hear why the garrison left?” 

Charles’ throat tightens. “Rumor was…" his voice trails off as he forces a hard swallow. “Rumor was that they found the Jedi Knight in question dead on another planet.” 

“Master, this doesn’t make sense - please.” Charles pleaded, looking at the taller woman as she stuffed a satchel with food and clothing. 

“I will not stay and endanger these people, Charles. And us traveling together will raise even more suspicion.” Her words were muffled by the clanking of metal tins filled with preserved fish as she packed her bag. “The Empire knows my name, and they know that I’m here. If they don’t know about you, then I would have it stay that way.” 

Charles drew a shaky breath, still trying to make sense of the situation. “Will… will you come back for me?” 

Her movements slowed as she turned to him with a hesitant, fond smile. “If the Force wills it, I shall return once it is safe to do so. But be honest with yourself, my dear Padawan - you’ve been ready to face the galaxy on your own for some time now.” 

He fought back the rising disappointment and accompanying restless sigh, unable to deny the truth of her words. 

Her smile filled out as she stepped closer. “I know that you’re disappointed, Charles. Any Padawan on the precipice of taking the Trials would feel the same. If it were my decision, you would already bear the title of Jedi Knight.” Her purple eyes sparkled with familiar, caring encouragement. “You’re more ready than you’ll ever know - and you're certainly a more diligent student and Padawan than I was at your age.” 

Charles’ cheeks flushed. “Thank you, master. That’s… high praise. Especially considering that I… I may never be a Knight now, and I… I don’t wish to fail you.” 

“And that’s how I know that you’ll stay true in the difficult days ahead.” She placed a supportive hand on his shoulder. “Remember your training and keep the Force as your guide. Grow with it, learn from it, keep it as your ally - and you will not have failed me.” 

“Good.” Max’s voice jars Charles from the memory as the pilot nods sharply. “Traitors to the Empire don't deserve to live.” 

Charles’ eyes narrow, but he swallows his bitter tone. “Traitors who betray their allegiance should be held accountable, but I have never believed that of the Jedi Order.” 

Max stiffens, his face creasing with surprised displeasure. A thrill of satisfaction flares in Charles’ chest. If Max has indeed spent his entire life with the Empire’s dogma rammed down his throat, then he’s long overdue to learn the truth and gain some perspective. 

At length, Max’s gaze turns decisively murderous. “Then, I would have to call you a hypocrite.” 

Charles doesn’t see the pilot move, but the energy in the air tenses and shifts. Max’s solid weight crashes into him, knocking him over into the grass. The back of Charles’ head connects with the hard ground, a grunt punching from his chest as Max bears down on him. His thighs are bracketed on either side by the pilot’s knees as the broader man looms over him, a hand tight around his throat. 

“You talk about allegiance,” Max hisses. “But you’ve overplayed your hand, traitor.”

Charles stares up into Max's mesmerizing stormy gaze, shaking his head feebly against the pilot’s grip. “I am not a traitor, mate.” 

“I am not your mate.” Max squeezes a little harder, shifting to straddle Charles’ upper thighs and gaining leverage to better immobilize him. “I do not befriend fucking deserters.” 

“Deserter…?” Charles repeats, voice rough and eyes wide. “Of all the ridiculous nons-” His words choke off as Max jerks his head against the ground. 

“You know too much to fool me.” The words cut with ice, lancing shivers down Charles’ spine. “Or have you forgotten how you lectured me on the manipulations of the pilot corps? How you told me about the drugs in my air supply?” 

The strong hand around Charles’ throat disappears, darting up to tangle in Charles’ curls and wrench his head back. Charles gasps at the sudden motion, his bared throat flexing on display as unbidden arousal slams through him. Coupled with the warm weight of Max’s body on his thighs, over his groin - he struggles to breathe, to will his growing erection into submission. 

Max leans down low, hot breath gusting against Charles’ ear as he pulls on Charles’ curls. “Now I ask myself,” Max whispers low and dangerous. “How could you possibly know all of that - any of that - unless you have prior experience with it?” He screws his fingers tighter in Charles’ hair. “Now, tell me.” 

Charles groans, fighting for control. He’s impossibly hard now and mildly surprised that Max hasn't commented on it given the pilot's pressure on his hips. He can admit that he’s made a point not to look too closely at Max’s body since his arrival, but he can’t deny that Max is strikingly handsome with a body that would tempt even the most celibate. And while Jedis are forbidden from attachment and most chose celibacy to deter it, Charles has never made that distinction. But after so many years exiled on this planet, Charles hasn’t been so close to anyone in so long. Let alone someone so handsome who finds the erogenous zone of Charles’ hair. 

Oh, Force, he’s in trouble. He struggles to keep his hips from thrusting up, trying to find words through labored breaths. After all, hasn’t Max asked him a question…? 

Another strong tug makes Charles bite his lip to stifle a moan, tasting copper on his tongue. Max’s words rumble against the shell of his ear. “Answer me, deserter.”

The stern command demands complete surrender, and Charles' control breaks, bucking his hips up into the solid heat above him. His breath catches at the pleasurable sensation as a new discovery dawns on him. Again, he rolls his hips, dizzy to find Max's erection just as hard and hot against him. 

A growl tears from Max’s lips as his grip tightens. “Stop that… Charles-” His words dissolve into a moan as Charles thrusts their arousals together. 

Charles groans in return, heart galloping. Is he really going to do this? Would it really be so easy to turn the tide with such a distraction? 

Max abandons Charles’ hair, reaching for his arms and pinning each to the ground. The shift in leverage puts more downward force on Max's hips, leaving any less doubt about his arousal as he glares down at Charles, eyes dark with feral desire. “What-” Max grits through clenched teeth as Charles rolls their hips together again. “What are you doing to me?” 

Charles freezes, his heavy-lidded eyes flying open with surprise. “What do you… you can’t mean…” Charles pauses, licking his lips as he fights for clarity through the fog of arousal. “You mean to say that you’ve… never felt this?” He rolls his hips languidly, pressing their hard cocks together. “Or done this… with another person?” 

Anger flashes in the tempest of Max’s eyes as he jerks a hand back to Charles’ throat, hard against his raging pulse, and forces his head back to expose his neck. “You think you’re so clever?” Max hisses sharp words into his ear. “You talk about manipulation - yet here you are… manipulating my body in such ways.” 

“Oh, mate - I’m not clever and this is no manipulation.” Charles forces a hard swallow against the pressure of Max’s heavy hand. “Your body is made for so much more than just flying and hunting… and if the Empire took that from you, too, to make you a better weapon of war, then you have my condolences. Truly.” He moves his free hand to Max’s backside, exaggerating a groan as he grips the firm muscles, finding leverage to thrust against. He bares his throat further, gaze heavy with intent. “Truly, there’s little else so enjoyable… so pleasurable. It’s… what's life without pleasure, hmm?"

Charles builds a slow, grinding rhythm and watches Max’s resolve crumble. Fuck, it’s such a gorgeous sight. Max’s cheeks turn pink, his eyes dark and wild with obvious conflict about the sensations in his body as Charles holds him close. The Force sings between the tight press of their bodies, a blissful vitality hot with electric current. 

Maybe it’s wrong, but Charles throws the last bit of caution to the wind. It may have been more years than he wants to admit, but he still remembers how to move, how to sound, how to bite his lip and entice his partner. 

“Charles, don’t-” Max groans, his hold on Charles’ throat loosening. “... Don't!” He shifts atop Charles, resulting in the long, delicious drag of their cocks, and white-hot want rockets up Charles’ spine. 

“Oh, Force,” Charles moans, gripping Max’s backside harder. His mind spins as Max's hips thrust forward again, and the air sparks against his skin. “Oh, fuck… do it again.” 

“Fuck.” Max growls, radiating unhinged desperation and raging frustration. The intense energy rolls off him, threatening to suffocate Charles with each push and pull of their hips.

The pleasurable coils at the base of Charles' spine wind tighter, and… oh, fuck. This is it - he's going to come in his trousers like a teenager all over again - but has it ever felt this good? Max’s ragged breathing hitches, choking off a blissful cry in Charles' ear as his hips stutter and stall. Charles' own release surges through him, intoxicated by the blinding satisfaction that permeates every facet of Max's being.

His mind floats in delirium as he blinks up at Max, watching the pilot gasp for breath. Max's face contorts almost painfully as the overwhelming intensity of orgasm fades to afterglow. Charles’ heart breaks, wanting to wrap Max in the tightest hug and whisper every reassurance he knows against the pilot's skin.

Slowly, Charles licks his lips and sighs with heavy contentment. “Well, that… that was quite the unexpected detour, but most… certainly most welcome.” He drifts a lazy hand up the curvature of Max's spine. 

“I don’t… you just….” Max gasps for words as he slumps against Charles, still undone from the rush. A suffocating panic grows in the air, a distress that slices through the lazy sway of euphoria.

“Just breathe.” Charles coaxes, concern creasing his brow. “You’re alright.” 

“No!" Max hisses, still panting as if he’s drowning. “No, it… this-!” 

Charles’ heart pangs as Max’s distress grows. His instincts tug at him to reach out, to extend Max a wave of calming reassurance - but that feels like a manipulative betrayal. There's nothing that Max should fear about this, and he should be allowed to experience it all. 

But in his hesitation, Max slumps against him with closed eyes. His breathing evens out and the anxious energy radiating from him fades. As Charles bears the heavy weight on his chest, he isn't sure if the panic is a lasting side effect of the pilot corps' drugs or if he simply just hyperventilated in the first rush of powerful emotion.

Either way, he cards a comforting hand through Max’s soft hair and brushes a kiss to his brow. “Rest now, mate.” He breathes against Max’s overheated skin. “It’s alright.” 

#f1 fanfic #f1 rpf #charles leclerc #charles leclerc fanfic #max verstappen #max verstappen fanfic #charles leclerc x max verstappen #lestappen #star wars au #jedi #tie fighter #f1 fandom