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#anti gray jedi
short-wooloo · 1 month
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Now that the trailer is out, it's probably best that I get this out of the way before acolyte releases
The Jedi are right about the Force and the dark side
The Jedi did not lose their way
The Jedi were not corrupted
The genocide of the Jedi was not their fault
The Jedi are not wrong for being part of the Republic, it is in fact a good thing
The Jedi are not arrogant for thinking the sith are gone
and while we're at it the sith are evil, always, end of discussion
The Jedi do not steal children
If someone wants to leave the Jedi, that's allowed, no one will stop them
The Jedi are right about attachment
Attachment is not love (SW uses the Buddhist definition because Lucas is a Buddhist and the Jedi are based off Buddhist monks, Buddhism defines attachment as being possessive or unwilling to let go of people or things)
The Jedi do not forbid emotions, they forbid being controlled by your emotions, you must control them
The Jedi are not forbidden from loving people, nor are they celibate, they just can't get married (big whup) because their duties must come first
Being peacekeepers doesn't preclude the Jedi from fighting in war, sometimes to keep the peace you have to fight back, especially when its against tyranny, see WWII (or Ukraine today)
Gray jedi are not a thing
The Jedi are not slavers or complicit in slavery
Oh and of course, the Jedi are not elitists for not training non Force sensitives, (Han voice) that's not how the Force works, dave filoni broke the rules so he could shoehorn sabine into a Jedi (to give the benefit of the doubt, I do believe sabine's role as ahsoka's apprentice was meant for an original character but things got condensed by executives, so maybe filoni isn't entirely to blame here)
Feel free to add anything I forgot
Do not, DO NOT!! add anything Jedi critical, I'm done with it and won't hear it, don't have something nice to say? Then go away, I will block on sight, either reblog without comment (either in the reblog or the notes) or don't interact at all
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I don’t think some people realize why the gray jedi thing pisses some of us off so badly.
Imagine you like lord of the rings and you decide to look around the fandom.
And it turns out that 10+ or something years ago someone wrote a piece of fanfiction where they rewrote the rules for the ring. So instead of it only having one master and corrupting everyone else that tried to use it, it sometimes chooses to take a new master if it feels the person is worthy of it. And therefore this author’s self-insert OC can now use the one ring in all its glory without getting turned crazy.
This fanfic gets published (as some fanfics do) and most of the fandom has read it and loves it.
Now, when you (someone who has only dealt with canon works written by Tolkien) see this fic you go… huh. That’s nice, but it goes against the very point of the books and the lore tolkien created. So while it’s a good fic I’m not going to interact with it.
But then people keep harassing you for taking about/ writing the one ring the way tolkien wrote it to begin with.
And they SWEAR that this is the Actual lore of the one ring, and that YOU are wrong. Which is completely insane to you, because FRODE TOOK IT TO MORDOR FOR A REASON. There is only one lord of the ring!! That’s literally the name of the series that’s what it’s about!! If what the fandom was insisting about was possible, there would be no plot. In the original books.
This is why we are so upset over gray jedi!! Bc if it was possible to use the dark side but still be a good guy then wtf is wrong with Anakin? Why the fuck did Darth Vader fall to the dark side? Why did Luke struggle so much? If you can have your cake and eat it too why are the movies so fuckin long?? Why did Luke fail against Vader in Empire? what lesson did he learn in Return? Why would the movie be called Return of the Jedi if Luke had not learned the Jedi ways????
You can write OC’s as gray jedi all you want but when you start forcing it into canon it literally ruins the movies!
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antianakin · 11 months
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I think if we can accept that there are things Jedi are shown capable of doing in canon that Cal is incapable of doing in the games due to video game mechanics (i.e. he cannot carve through locked doors or walls, and he cannot jump more than about 10 feet without dying), then we can accept the opposite as well: there are things Jedi are shown to be INCAPABLE of doing in canon that Cal IS capable of doing in the games due to video game mechanics (using the dark side in fights all the time without any real impact on him). Yes, Cal was given a "dark side" power-up ability, and yes, you can continue to use it for him over and over again and it seemingly has no real negative impact on his character. But this is how video games work, every time we get given an ability in the game, Cal is able to keep it for the rest of the game in order to explore new areas and fight new things. But that doesn't mean that that's how using the dark side actually would work for Cal within canon if he were shown in something like a film or TV show rather than a video game.
And if you look at the actual STORY within the game rather than the basic gameplay options, it's made pretty clear that Cal using the dark side is akin to losing himself. He CANNOT use it without that risk being there and he has to keep letting it go. The first time he uses it on Nova Garon, Merrin stops him by saying they've both lost enough people and she doesn't want to lose Cal, too. When they talk on Tanalorr before making it to the Temple, Cal expresses fear of losing himself. After the funeral, Cal says to Cere that he nearly lost himself during that fight with Bode. Over and over again they let you know through the STORY that Cal using the dark side is a bad thing that he isn't using without consequence even though the ability exists in gameplay without any impact.
Cal isn't a Gray Jedi, that's not how it works. The game is doing the best it can to tell you that the dark side WILL ultimately cause Cal to lose himself if he keeps using it even though it has to let you keep using the ability due to how video game rules work. Cal is a Jedi, full stop. The dark side is bad and twists everyone who uses it, full stop. Stop pretending video game gameplay rules are the same as the story it's actually telling when the dialogue practically spells it out for you.
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nateofgreat · 5 months
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So the "Gray Jedi" thing kind of misunderstands the terminology of "light side" and "dark side" as it concerns the Force. Never mind that "light side" itself is a post-movie thing as there it was generally understood that the Force is, in itself, light (meaning good) so there wasn't any need to refer to it in those terms...
But the main point of confusion seems to come from viewing it like a brightness color meter where on one side you have pure white, on the other you have pure black, and in between there's gray. Hence the idea that you can just kind of balance the two and get all the benefits with none of the sacrifices.
In reality it's better to think of it in the dictionary terms. Wherein "dark" means "absence of light" meaning that there's some gray part in between. There's just light and if you don't have any of that... There's darkness instead. Nowhere in Lucas writings is the Force really described as this two-sided thing you can balance. You're either good or you lack goodness and are therefore evil.
If you think of it like that the Gray Jedi don't make any sense. Because like... What does it even mean in such a context? That they give to charity in the morning then kick a puppy in the afternoon to "balance" themselves? That they're merciful some of the time and ruthless others? That they're altruistic but also spend a lot of time psyching themselves up with rage so they don't lose their dark side powers?
Now I kind of want a satirical fic of someone attempting to be a Gray Jedi and living like that.
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The thing about the Gray Jedi that doesn’t work is that you can’t be 50/50, that’s not how the Force works.
The Force is an incredibly simple magic system, honestly. Good people (Jedi) gain Good People Powers through working on themselves and helping people, and bad people (Sith) gain Bad People Powers by making themselves miserable and hurting everyone around them.
You cannot be a good person and have Bad People Powers like Force Lightning or whatever because those powers literally come from causing and exploiting people’s suffering. The Gray Jedi just don’t work because the Force is a dichotomy. There is the the Dark Side and the Light Side. You cannot be both, and if you could, well, being 50% evil is not a good thing, actually.
At best, you get something like the Bendu from Rebels where he’s just like, the worst kind of bystander. He has a ton of power and strength and he refuses to use it for anything, he lets everyone else be miserable, he lets the world get worse because he refuses to pick a side in a world that demands he have one. And at worst, you get Anakin Skywalker in RotS who is flip-flopping between light and dark, killing an unarmed prisoner one moment and risking his life and the Chancellor’s to save Obi-Wan the next. You get someone desperately unstable and uncontrollable who lashes out randomly and extremely destructively, pulling himself deeper into the Dark because he refused to choose a damn side.
Being 50% evil is either a step towards being 100% evil or it’s just… nothing. Utter passivity, refusal to do anything because it disrupts the ‘balance’ that never actually existed because good and evil are not equal. There’s no real nuance there, it’s a simple magic system, but that’s because it was made for kids! Look it up, GL has said all this before.
Anyway, yeah, being half evil kind of inherently precludes you from being a good person.
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incorrectpizza · 3 months
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Forget "gray Jedi" I want to explore Nightsister morality. A culture steeped in dark side magick but which seemingly has many members that shy away from pure evil.
Ventress, who's a Sith apprentice tossed aside, clinging to the dark yet occasionally drifting closer to the Light, using a yellow lightsaber, devoting herself to the Force while still using her hatred and pain? Merrin, who retains her Nightsister culture, resurrects the dead, and yet pries her Jedi lover from the very brink of the Dark she draws from?
I'd take exploration of this type over "gray Jedi" any day of the week.
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I feel like the Buddhist concept of "the middle path" could add something valuable to Star Wars discussion, but I'm worried that people would see it as advocating for Gray Jedi in the video game sense - halfway between the light and dark side. Really, it would be looking at Star Wars' "light side" completely, but in a way that balances needing to, you know, exist as a being in the galaxy and all that.
But it's odd to present that as an alternative to fully committing to a path, because Star Wars doesn't necessarily go for enlightenment as a concept outside of the ways it plays with force ghosts.
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david-talks-sw · 1 year
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The Sith don't want peace.
I've seen some fans use the below quote by Lucas in the Revenge of the Sith director's commentary to frame Darth Sidious/Sheev Palpatine as "evil but with well-meaning intentions".
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"Lord Sidious thinks he's bringing peace to the galaxy because there's so much corruption and confusion and chaos going on. Now he's gonna be able to straighten everything out, but the price the galaxy is gonna have to pay for it is way too much."
And uh... no.
Sidious thinking that him ruling the galaxy will bring about peace as a byproduct and him wanting to bring about peace are two very different things.
He's not doing what he does for altruistic reasons. He's a selfish dick who is saying that technically the galaxy won't be fighting anymore and the corruption in the Senate will be quelled... because of course it will be, they'll all be under his thumb in his totalitarian regime.
So Palpatine is not lying, but he's not being genuine either. And that's his whole schtick.
"The Jedi are holding you back, Anakin." Yes, because Anakin has a tendency of flying off the handle, mainly because you enable him to give in to his darker instincts, Sheev!
"The Jedi are trying to take over!" Temporarily? Yeah. Because you're a dictator who orchestrated a war and cemented division across the galaxy, and everyone behind you is corrupt to the bone, SHEEV!
He's not Thanos or Killmonger, he's not the "if you think about it, he's actually a good guy who took it too far" villain.
This is a modern myth with a binary view of good and evil. He's Iago, Jafar, Freezer. He's not "gray", he's the classic "he's evil because he can be" villain. The Emperor is the Devil. As stated by Lucas himself:
"Palpatine is the Devil. There’s no fall from grace there. He’s the evil one." - Starlog Magazine #337, 2005
And the Sith are not pragmatists or people who try to bring positive change using their passion. They're not "free thinkers" who "follow their own path". They're not "religiously persecuted for pursuing knowledge beyond the dogma of the Jedi".
And this battle between the Jedi and Sith, thousands years prior to the films ⬇️...
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... it didn't happen the way it's shown in the comic panel. That's Sidious showing horrific unreliable visions to Maul - a child - to indoctrinate him into hating the Jedi.
You know who does that? A cult. That's what the Sith are.
Hell, their code was partly based on Mein Kampf.
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The whole "the Jedi 'limit' but the Sith 'embrace' and that's why we're being hunted down" line is just that. A line.
It's what the Sith tell themselves to justify the fact that they fucked with Dark Magic, got corrupted, and are now making it everyone else's problem.
"The Sith are people who are very self-centered and selfish. [They] learned how to manipulate both sides of the Force, and then they fell into the trap of being corrupted by the dark side." - Sci-fi Online, 2005
Which is why the Jedi step in, to stand up to them.
"The Jedi are the enemy of the Sith because the Sith want to dominate the galaxy, to control everything, and for a thousand years they have had a plot against the Jedi." - Sci-fi Online, 2005
The Sith just wanna subdue and control everyone around them, including the Force itself, to fashion the galaxy in their image.
"The end game for the Sith was to bring the world into a very selfish, self-centered, greedy, evil place, as opposed to a compassionate place." - James Cameron's Story of Science Fiction, 2018
So sure, have fun with your The Old Republic OC, go to town.
But when it comes down to it, when we're talking about the intended narrative (I'm looking at you, The Acolyte):
The Sith don't care about peace, they're literal religious extremists.
While some Sith may say they're misunderstood and some may justify themselves as being altruistic... at the end of the day, they're objectively not. They're greedy, power-hungry and self-centered.
They're the anti-theme to Star Wars' theme of "be compassionate".
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maulfucker · 23 days
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wait wait wait. jedi Maul au where Maul kills Palpatine before Naboo (like. 1-5 years before, so he's not a kid and he's still fucked up on sith indoctrination but his trust in his master has started to waver) and ends up being (forcibly) taken in by the Jedi. so he's not really a jedi, he's a gray jedi at best, and he still holds some anti jedi views, but he gets to be trained by the jedi (I'm imagining him as the entire high council's padawan because first of all they would want to question the fuck out of him about the sith, and second of all he would definitely be considered too dangerous for any single jedi to handle) and turn out not entirely normal but definitely less fucked up than he is in canon.
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Aaron Sibarium
The syllabus was designed with input from Shamsher Samra, a professor of emergency medicine who has endorsed "Palestinians’ right to return" and published research on the "health of border abolition." Though the course initially included an exercise that separated students by race, that lesson was canceled in January after it became the subject of a local civil rights complaint.
Disturbed in part by the incident with Gray-Garcia, some Jewish faculty at the medical school have spoken out against the course, saying it perpetuates an "oppressor vs. oppressed" framework that fuels anti-Semitism. Dubinett alluded to those concerns in his email on Friday, which he said had been sparked by "tensions" over "the conflict in the Middle East." Like many university administrators since the October 7 attacks, he did not mention Jews specifically and appeared to suggest that anti-Semitism and Islamophobia were equally widespread, condemning them both in the same breath.
"We reiterate our stance against racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia and all forms of discrimination, harassment, intimidation or retaliation," Dubinett wrote. "We have an unwavering commitment to raise awareness of the persistent structural factors and social drivers that cause disproportionate disease and poor outcomes among marginalized communities."
UCLA medical school did not respond to a request for comment.
The email, which was also signed by UCLA Health CEO John Mazziotta, said the school would be responding to concerns about anti-Semitism by giving diversity officials more say in the curriculum.
"JEDI teams and vice chairs will provide input for course lecturers and course topics to strengthen medical school course stands," the email says, referring to the medical school’s office of justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. That office sponsored a talk this month that glorified self-immolation as a form of "revolutionary suicide" and told psychiatrists to "embed your practice with an anti-colonial lens."
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yubsie · 1 year
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Wait why do you never have Sabine speak Mando'a?
The snarky answer is "Because Jaina Solo doesn't have perfectly manicured nails."
That's not all of it, of course. But it actually is a pretty good summary.
Mando'a was invented by Karen Traviss. Who happens to be my nemesis. Not just because of Jaina, but Jaina illustrates it rather nicely.
So the thing about Karen Traviss is she is very attached to her particular conception of Mandalorians. She famously flounced when the Mandalorians in TCW were not in keeping with her version.
Karen Traviss also hates the Jedi. A lot. Every bad fandom take on the Jedi, every bad faith interpretation of what we see on screen is reflected in her writing.
My grudge against her stems specifically from the novel Bloodlines (not to be confused with Bloodline by Claudia Gray, Star Wars publishing arm why do you DO this to me?) Karen Traviss does not believe in actually reading any of the other novels. Bloodlines was part of a megaseries where she and two other authors were trading off every book. As one can imagine, her not paying attention to the other books led to some dramatic inconsistencies. For instance, Boba Fett was massively important, but only in every third book when Traviss was writing.
Because Karen Traviss did not believe in reading other books (I initially thought it was just the other books in the IP she was writing but it turns out it's actually fiction in general...), she would just up and decide what the various other characters were like. And she decided that Jaina Solo was a pampered Jedi princess who had no idea about the real world and needed to be taught about real fighting by Boba Fett. Now, Boba Fett as portrayed by Temuera Morrison is very cool. Boba Fett as written by Karen Traviss is misogyny on legs.
She basically took out all her hatred of the Jedi out on my Jaina. Jaina wasn't even "my Jaina" until I read this book. Now, Traviss's perception of the Jedi was not at all accurate anyway but of all the Jedi she could have picked to focus her anti-Jedi sentiment on, Jaina was quite possibly the least like what she thinks the Jedi are.
I didn't know it was possible to mischaracterize a character in a single sentence, but damn if she didn't pull it off with "Jaina tapped a perfectly manicured nail."
For those of you utterly unfamiliar with Legends, one of Jaina's major traits is that she's always up to her armpits in mechanical work. Perfectly manicured nail.
PERFECTLY MANICURED NAIL.
I wanted to throw this particular book at the wall thirty six times. This may sound like an oddly specific number. That would be because I had a post it note inside the cover when I was reading it.
Sensible people would have just stopped reading but dammit, one of the other authors on this series was Aaron Allston and he kept dragging me back.
So yeah, that's why I never use Mando'a in my fics.
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short-wooloo · 2 years
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Friendly reminder that there is no grey jedi code
"But I saw it!"
That was fake, it's made up, by fans, no SW material, in any canon, mentions it, the grey code is a spectacular case of fan created content becoming conflated with canon
(There's also no "grey force" either)
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gffa · 2 years
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Do you think the text of the prophecy of the Chosen One as depicted in Claudia Gray's Master and Apprentice (2019) potentially substantiates fanon anti-Jedi beliefs?
"Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless."
Although it would be horrible to view the Great Jedi Purge as anywhere near justified, I can't help but concede to the popular sentiment that interprets the above text as such.
Hi! No, I don't think so, because that prophecy doesn't really amount to anything and it's not really clear and it's not like there's anything in the prequels era that would fit under the concept of the "Nameless" or any group that we're shown being benefitting from their deaths, other than the Sith. Like, if it's a prophecy about the Jedi genocide, who are the nameless? what sin is being cleansed with their deaths? We don't see anything that could support that. Plus, isn't there a whole group of creatures in the High Republic (and when M&A came out, they were in the planning stages of the High Republic stuff, they were sprinkling references into books around that time) called the "Nameless" that would be a better fit? And, like. Just at a fundamental level. I don't think Star Wars is meant to be saying that the murder of toddlers asking for help is how they'd show that something was even a little bit justified, like if there was any point to the Jedi being massacred as a necessary thing, I don't think it would be shown through babies being lightsabered to death, I just don't think there's anything you can do to make the idea of the genocide of the Jedi justified given the way the movies and TCW showed it. Because whatever justifications are used then have to be paired with said baby murder. Whatever "sin" is being cleansed is being done through innocent toddler death?? That's just not Star Wars imo.
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antianakin · 3 months
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@theneutralmime
I'm gonna start with the easiest part of this and assure you grey Jedi are NOT a thing in canon (yet). Filoni seems to potentially be heading down a road where he WILL make grey Jedi canon via Ahsoka and Sabine (and maybe Shin), but at no point has the term ever actually come up in anything officially canon. Even if Filoni makes it canon, though, it will never be LUCAS canon.
Balancing the Force is about eliminating the Sith. The Force is, generally, balanced on its own, but the Sith cause an unbalance because they're exceedingly selfish and greedy and have the power to do something about it and cause it to spread. It's ABSOLUTELY not about having the same amount of Jedi and Sith or the same amount of "light" and dark. In essence, balance and "light" mean the same thing. If the Force is balanced, it just means there isn't an excess of darkness (which is generally only ever CAUSED if there's Sith around doing their thing).
Balance within yourself is usually considered to be acknowledging that darkness exists and is entirely natural (because it's caused by natural emotions like fear, pain, and anger) but then choosing NOT TO ACT ON IT. Balance is about choosing to be selfless and compassionate in SPITE of that darkness. When the Force is unbalanced, it means too many people ARE acting on that darkness which is feeding the dark side of the Force. This is usually caused by things in the galaxy being influenced by the Sith, like Palpatine corrupting the Senate through politics causing unrest among the people and then starting a galactic civil war.
While eliminating the Sith isn't going to be a magical cure all to the darkness they cause, it does provide BREATHING ROOM and the opportunity for people to work to do better and that ultimately starts bringing the Force completely back into balance. People will always have the capacity for selfishness and greed within them, but without the Sith, it's a much more manageable problem.
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nateofgreat · 11 months
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The Old Republic’s Revan is a scathing indictment of Gray Jedi
I don’t know or even really think it was intentional, but it’s pretty funny how the MMO depicted the whole idea of a “Gray Jedi.”
When you rescue Revan he’s hailed as being be one of the greatest force users ever. Savior or destroyer of the Republic and Jedi, but then he runs off and dies over the course of a single mission after trying to genocide everyone with ancestry in the Sith Empire. All the while declaring that he was doing it all for peace and had a unique perspective due to having been both Jedi and Sith.
That’s not all either, when you confront him he brags about how only in him is the Force in perfect balance between light and dark. And that this makes him more powerful than anyone else. Then he loses and dies pretty quickly.
Later when they retcon Revan back to life they reveal that the conflict between these supposedly “balanced” halves of his (light and dark) was actually so terrible that at his supposed death they split him into two different people. The light side found peace and accepted death while the dark side fought against it and went back to causing trouble. Although even his pure dark side half seems to have gotten over his genocidal tendencies.
When you confront Revan again, who now, no longer has his light side. Meaning he’s no longer “balanced” he’s suddenly a much more dangerous threat that takes all the most powerful characters in the game to defeat. After defeating him his two halves reconcile with each other and merge again, causing Revan to die.
If you look at it, this actually a really negative depiction of the whole idea of “Gray Jedi.” First he almost genocides billions in the name of peace and is defeated quickly despite claiming he has both light side and dark side powers. Then the two sides are so incompatible that they split him into two people, both of which were more powerful than he was when they were united.
I don’t know if they meant it that way. But it’s a good example of what would happen if you really did try to reconcile two mutually exclusive things into one.
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writebackatya · 1 year
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Since it’s Star Wars Day (May the 4th be with you!) I might as well talk about that one time in Indi-Quack! when Della and Gandra were debating whether Star Wars or Star Trek is better
In the story I had Gandra insult the Star Wars franchise by saying that the series only had two good movies. If you were ever curious which movies I think Gandra would think are good I would say Empire Strikes Back and either The Last Jedi or Rogue One. I kinda regret writing two, I should’ve went with three
I like the idea of Gandra liking The Last Jedi cause it’s a “controversial” take (just like liking Gandra!) but also I can see her liking Rogue One because it is one of the darker movies that deals with gray areas. Also I think it’s funny that one (or two) of her answers are from Disney’s Star Wars because in some of WIPs I’m kinda giving Gandra some anti-Disney stuff to say
It’s honestly been awhile since I’ve seen either of those movies
And as for Della’s Star Wars opinions. Her rankings go: Empire Strikes Back, New Hope, Return of the Jedi, and then just the prequel trilogy. She’s not a fan of the prequels like a lot of ducks her age. Not to mention she wasn’t on Earth when the generation that grew up with those movies said “Hey the prequels aren’t that bad actually”
She still hasn’t seen the new trilogy or the other movies/shows
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