#anti culture and purity culture is wild | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

jedi-enthusiast · 4 months

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@confusledqueer apologizes for not responding sooner, it’s been a busy couple days and—honestly—I forgot for a bit.

Moving on-

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Me equating some of the things that anti-Jedi people say to antisemitism and, sometimes, outright Nazi-esque rhetoric is not “wild” or “a stretch,” as you’re implying.

Justification of their genocide, denial that it actually was a genocide, a belief that the genocided party “caused” their own genocide, and a belief that they genocided party were wrong or “led astray” while one person was sent to make things right- (via either making them change their ways or outright destroying them/their culture) -are all things I’ve seen people say about the Jedi…

…but they’re also things that people have actually said about Jews.

Take the example I put in the post of someone denying that the Jedi Purge was actually a genocide, and how—by changing “Jedi” to “Judaism” and “Force-religions” to “Abrahamic Faiths”—it sounds verbatim to Holocaust denial.

Or, as another example, people claiming that the Jedi “kidnapped kids to brainwash them”…don’t you see how that sounds like Blood Libel?

So me pointing out that a lot of stuff anti-Jedi people say sounds like antisemitic rhetoric isn’t a stretch, not when a lot of it sounds verbatim to what people are saying with the rise of antisemitism and stuff they have said in the past.

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Now, I’m not Jewish, but it’s not just me, your neighborhood White Girl™️, who’s pointing this stuff out.

Actual Jewish people have pointed out the alarming similarities between anti-Jedi rhetoric and straight up antisemitism. So, if you wanna argue about- “you shouldn’t compare real world discrimination to fictional stuff” -then you should probably take that into account.

Go ahead and try telling Jewish Star Wars fans to stop calling out antisemitic rhetoric in the fandom, I’m sure that’ll go down real well.

I also find it hilarious that you’re telling me to be careful about the rhetoric I use in a thread about how I shouldn’t point out that some of the rhetoric other people spout is basically antisemitism rebranded.

And my point in that post wasn’t- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion, you can’t criticize it.”

My point was- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion then you need to be careful about how you criticize it, otherwise you might unconsciously be spouting bigoted beliefs and antisemitic rhetoric because you don’t recognize that that’s what it is because you’re saying it about a fictional culture.”

By all means, I get that some people just don’t like the Jedi, that’s their prerogative and we all have our own tastes.

Criticize them, if you feel like it, but don’t go around spouting rebranded antisemitism to do it. I’m sure you can come up with plenty of things to complain about them for without doing so.

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Now, I can understand why you might be worried about the slippery slope from this to shit like actual censorship—which, I think we can all agree, is a bad thing. Or how you might think criticizing this could lead to the whole “fandom purity” debate.

My thing is, it all comes down to does it actually harm people?

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes via saying stuff like the Jewish based characters “steal children,” or “lost their way,” or “they caused/deserved their genocide”—that does cause actual harm.

Think about why the “angry black man” stereotype or the “cheating bisexual” stereotype are bad and people- (rightly) -push back against them. It’s the same thing here.

Shipping a problematic ship, calling a fictional serial killer “babygirl,” writing about dark topics*, headcanoning characters as gay or trans…none of that is actively harming people.

(*obviously when writing about dark topics you should tag appropriately so people can avoid triggers, but that’s another topic for another day)

That’s the difference.

And, for the record, I think letting people spout bigotry just because they’re saying it about something fictional is the more dangerous mindset than calling it out.

#star wars #sw prequels #the clone wars #pro jedi #pro jedi order #in defense of the jedi #antisemitism #fandom meta #star wars meta #fandom wank

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proshippers-against-censorship · 2 months

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as a European I find antis’ obsession with morality and purity weird. The country I live in is not as prude as the US, and that’s probably why the anti problem is not as bad here

For example we have yearly anime and video game cons where you can purchase loli body pillows, there are separate 18+ areas with the weirdest hentai you can find on display, and in the artist alleys you’ll find people who make fanart of Diluc/Kaeya kissing, or who sell their own nsfw dounijshi (it’s allowed as long as it’s not on display and not the only thing they’re selling)

of course antis exist here too, there was a case at one of these cons where people who were cosplaying as Diluc and Kaeya got harassed by a grown man because they were holding hands. He thought they were a couple, but it turns out they were actually siblings and only held hands so they wouldn’t get separated in the crowd.

but scenarios like these are extremely rare and in non English speaking fandoms, you won’t find this kind of mindset a lot.

I just hope that we see more pushback to this kind of thing in the years to come but tbh I don’t have a lot of hope, especially because of censorship laws and the internet becoming worse (in general)

The irony is that cons here in the US are just as lewd, which is why the existence of antis to begin with is so wild. Though, tbh, as we've established, most antis are minors, so they've likely either never been to cons or, if they were, weren't permitted into the 18+ sector of the artists alley. Small cons have some lewd artists too, but it's fun because they like, beckon the adults into a crowd to then show off their lewd stuff in an attempt to hide it from the kiddos.

Yeah. I'm honestly afraid too that anti culture may become the law...and I really don't like that. Censorship bad.

#proshippers against censorship #jackal barks #proship please interact #proship positivity #proship #proshipping #proshipper #proshippers please interact #proshipper safe #anti anti #asks #ask

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arliedraws · 3 months

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Arlie, I am here to rant in your inbox. I have loved Prongsfoot for so long, but there's a new wave of writers in the fandom (who, let's be real, are Wolfstar writers first and foremost) that are insistent it can only be written as deranged, unhinged, and toxic. And they talk about how fun it is to write such an obsessive ship after how wholesome Wolfstar is. It infuriates me. Dunno if you've noticed this too, but yeah. I love your take on Prongsfoot but also they can be sweet and kind and gentle too, you know? Wolfstar being considered the healthy ship and Prongsfoot the toxic one is insane to me.

Please, I love a good rant! My ask box is open for a reason 😂

But honestly, I think these folks are right. Unquestionable loyalty and matched brilliance/skill and equality and “you’re the only person who sees the real me” is so so so toxic. Imagine feeling supported and equal in a relationship!!!!!

Truthfully, I had to make Sirius a Slytherin to inject the toxicity I long for in a fic. Canon James and Sirius are devoted to each other, so adding in some desperate physical closeness and “I need to be melt with you” might just…y’know. Happen. It’s soft and rough and gentle and wild. They have the range.

And look, I don’t mind Wolfstar as a toxic ship as long as everyone is in character, but there’s a lot of weeeeeeird alpha/omega stuff going on in this fandom and when it’s not that, there’s a lot of this purity/anti-sex culture that focuses so much on cutesy romance which is NOT the same as sweet and gentle. Can you have both? Yeah, but GOD. I come online to be horny and weird.

Just so we're clear: Prongsfoot is a wholesome, safe-to-eat ship. I don't know what these folks are on about.

#asks

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toaster-trash · 2 months

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idk about you but I love getting my opinions on one of the titans of English literature from a barely post-pubescent 20-something child on tumblr, a website famous for having users with great reading comprehension, critical thinking and no impulse whatsoever to fall into purity culture nonsense at the drop of a hat. I also love the English courts of law, and anti-sodomy laws, and I immediately and uncritically trust them when they accuse a gay man of being a pedophile. There is nothing wrong, childish or immature about this and I don't need to grow up

PURITY CULTURE??? PURITY CULTURE?????? Oh my bad folks I didn’t realise grooming 16 year old boys as a 30-something year old man was just rebelling against purity culture. And for your information, I’ve done plenty of research into anti-sodomy laws at the time of Wilde’s trials, and I’ve also read multiple sources of shorthand translations of the proceedings of the trials themselves, and anyone with two brain cells could tell that the way Wilde spoke wasn’t the way an innocent man would speak, and the evidence compiled against him was overwhelming, regardless of any bias the court may have had. True, the bias in question is fair to bring up and discuss, but it doesn’t negate his extremely likely guilt. It’s extremely unlikely that the man was innocent, from the evidence itself to Wilde’s tone during his “defence”.

Some sources:

The Trial of Oscar Wilde: From the Shorthand Reports (1906)

“In 1895, the playwright and wit Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) was prosecuted for 'acts of gross indecency' with other men. Parts of his trial were covered in newspapers of the day, but because of British censorship laws, this fuller account was not published in English until 1906.”

–The British Library official website (bl.uk)

famous-trials.com, compiled by Professor Douglas O’Linder from UMKC School of Law, mostly aligning with the shorthand translations of the testimonies from the prior source referenced yet with a few details not included in the 1906 publication to my knowledge.

https://www.famous-trials.com/wilde/327-home

Of course, everything has drawbacks, everything has a grain of salt, not everything is fullproof, there’s room for argument everywhere and of course the two sources I linked there aren’t fully enough for a big picture, and context of the time, surrounding impact, further accounts etc should all be looked into — however, in weighing up the evidence and legitimacy of sources and conflating information on all sides, personally I’m ridiculously extremely confident that Wilde was guilty, and I think the fact that this isn’t really widespread historical information is ridiculous.

You’re right, you shouldn’t take things you see on Tumblr as full proof undisputed fact. You’re right, Tumblr is a hellhole a lot of the time for misinformation and bad literary comprehension and analysis. But that doesn’t mean anything you see anywhere is objectively wrong, and you should do a small molecule of proper research and critical thinking from seeing those posts before spouting bullshit.

And for your information, I’m both queer and Irish myself and shockingly the fact that one of the major idealised queer figures for my country is a rich 19th-century-Narcissus pedophile creep, and nobody says jack shit about it, makes me pretty fucking pissed! Surprisingly!

“Purity culture” catch yourself on lad what in the fresh fuck are you on about. I’m in the age range for the wee boys Wilde fucked, surprisingly if I heard one of my friends was meeting with and having sex with some rich fuck old enough to be their da I’d be pretty fucking concerned I’d be calling cps bro 💀🙏

#oscar wilde #asks #gothic lit #classic literature #gothic literature #classic lit #the picture of dorian gray #dorian gray

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mightyflamethrower · 1 month

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At the nexus of most of America’s current crises, the diversity/equity/inclusion dogma can be found.

The southern border has been destroyed because the Democratic Party wanted the poor of the southern hemisphere to be counted in the census, to vote if possible in poorly audited mail-in elections, and to build upon constituencies that demand government help. Opposition to such cynicism and the de facto destruction of enforcement of U.S. immigration law is written off as “racism,” “nativism,” and “xenophobia.”

The military is short more than 40,000 soldiers. The Pentagon may fault youth gangs, drug use, or a tight labor market. But the real shortfall is mostly due inordinately to reluctant white males who have been smeared by some of the military elite as suspected “white supremacists,” despite dying at twice their demographics in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they are now passing on joining up despite their families’ often multigenerational combat service.

The nexus between critical race theory and critical legal theory has been, inter alia, defunding the police, Soros-funded district attorneys exempting criminals from punishment, the legitimization of mass looting, squatters’ rights, and general lawlessness across big-city America.

The recent epidemic of anti-Semitism was in part birthed by woke/DEI faculty and students on elite campuses, who declared Hamas a victim of “white settler” victimizing Israel and thus contextualized their Jewish hatred by claiming that as “victims,” they cannot be bigots.

There is a historic, malevolent role of states adjudicating political purity, substituting racial, sex, class, and tribal criteria for meritocracy. They define success or failure not based on actual outcomes but on the degree of orthodox zealotry. Once governments enter that realm of the surreal, the result is always an utter disaster.

After a series of disastrous military catastrophes in 1941 and 1942, Soviet strongman and arch-communist Joseph Stalin ended the Soviet commissar system in October 1942. He reversed course to give absolute tactical authority to his ground commanders rather than to the communist overseers, as was customary.

Stalin really had no choice since Marxist-Leninist ideology overriding military logic and efficacy had ensured that the Soviet Union was surprised by a massive Nazi invasion in June 1941. The Russians in the first 12 months of war subsequently lost nearly 5 million in vast encirclements—largely because foolhardy, ideologically driven directives curtailed the generals’ operational control of the army. After the commissars were disbanded and commanders given greater autonomy, the landmark victory at Stalingrad followed, and with it, the rebound of the Red Army.

One reason why the dictator Napoleon ran wild in Europe for nearly 18 years was that his marshals of France were neither selected only by the old Bourbon standards of aristocratic birth and wealth nor by new ideological revolutionary criteria, but by more meritocratic means than those of his rival nations.

Mao’s decade-long cultural revolution (1966–76) ruined China. It was predicated on Maoist revolutionary dogma overruling economic, social, cultural, and military realities. An entire meritocracy was deemed corrupted by the West and reactionary—and thus either liquidated or rendered inert.

In their place, incompetent zealots competed to destroy all prior standards as “bourgeois” and “counter-revolutionary.” It is no surprise that the current “people’s liberation army,” for all its talk of communist dogma, does not function entirely on Mao’s principles.

Muammar Gaddafi wrecked Libya by reordering an once oil-rich nation on Gaddafi’s crackpot rules of his “Green Book.” At times, the unhinged ideologue, in lunatic fashion, required all Libyans to raise chickens or to destroy all the violins in the nation. I once asked a Libyan why the oil-rich country appeared to me utterly wrecked, and he answered, “We first hire our first cousins—and usually the worst.”

There were many reasons why the King-Cotton, slave-owning Old South lagged far behind the North in population, productivity, and infrastructure. But the chief factor was the capital and effort invested in the amoral as well as uneconomic institution of slavery.

After the Civil War, persistent segregationist ideology demanded vast amounts of time, labor, and money in defining race down to the “one drop” rule—while establishing a labyrinth of segregation laws and refusing to draw on the talents of millions of black citizens.

Yet here we are in 2024, ignoring the baleful past as the woke diversity/equity/inclusion commissars war on merit. Institutions from United Airlines and the Federal Aviation Administration to the Pentagon and elite universities have been reformulated in the post-George Floyd woke hysteria. And to the delight of competitors and enemies abroad, they are now using criteria other than merit to hire, promote, evaluate, and retain.

The greatest problem historically with hiring and promoting based on DEI-like dogma is that anti-meritocratic criteria mark the beginning, not the end, of eroding vital standards. If one does not qualify for a position or slot by accepted standards, then a series of further remedial interventions are needed to sustain the woke project, from providing exceptions and exemptions, changing rules and requirements, and misleading the nation that a more “diverse” math, or more “inclusive” engineering, or more “equity” in chemistry can supplant mastery of critical knowledge that transcends gender, race, or ideology.

But planes either fly or crash due to proper operation, not the appearance or politics of the operator. All soldiers either hit or miss targets, and engineers either make bridges that stand or collapse on the basis of mastering ancient scientific canons and acquired skills, training, and aptitude that have nothing to do with superficial appearance, or tribal affinities, or religion, or doctrine.

The common denominator of critical theories, from critical legal theory to critical social theory, is toxic nihilism, which claims there are no absolute standards, only arbitrary rules and regulations set up by a privileged, powerful class to exploit “the other.” Yet, not punishing looting has nothing to do with race or class, but everything with corroding timeless deterrence that always has and always will prevent the bullying strong from preying on the weak and vulnerable.

Defunding the police sent a message to any criminally minded that in a cost-to-benefit risk assessment, the odds were now on the side of the criminal not being caught for his crimes—and so crime soared and the vulnerable of the inner city became easy prey.

Another danger of DEI is the subordination of the individual to the collective. We are currently witnessing an epidemic of DEI racism in which commissars talk nonstop of white supremacy/rage/privilege without any notion of enormous differences among 230 million individual Polish-, Greek-, Dutch-, Basque-, or Armenian-Americans, or the class, political, and cultural abyss that separates those in Martha’s Vineyard from their antitheses in East Palestine, Ohio.

Moreover, what is “whiteness” in an increasingly intermarried and multiracial society? Oddly, something akin to the old one-drop rules of the South is now updated to determine victims and victimizers—to the point of absurdity. Who is white—someone one half-Irish, one half Mexican—who is black—someone one quarter Jamaican, three-quarters German? To find answers, DEI czars must look to paradigms of the racist past for answers.

Moreover, once any group is exempted and not held to collective standards by virtue of its superficial appearance, then the nation naturally witnesses an increase in racism and bigotry—on the theory that it is not racist to racially stigmatize a supposedly “racist” collective. And we are already seeing an uptake in racially motivated interracial violence as criminals interpret the trickle-down theory of reparatory justice as providing exemption for opportunistic violence.

Throughout history, it has always been the most mediocre and opportunistic would-be commissars that appear to come forth when meritocracy vanishes. If there was not a Harvard President and plagiarist like Claudine Gay to trumpet and leverage her DEI credentials, she would have to be invented. If there was not a brilliant, non-DEI economist like Roland Fryer to be hounded and punished by her, he would have to be invented.

The DEI conglomerate has little idea of the landmines it is planting daily by reducing differences in talent, character, and morality into a boring blueprint of racial stereotypes. Punctuality is now “white time” and supposedly pernicious. The SAT, designed to give the less privileged a meritocratic pathway to college admissions, is deemed racist and either discarded or warped.

In its absence, universities are quietly now “reimaging” their curriculum to make it more “relevant to today’s students” and, of course, “more inclusive and more diverse.” Translated from the language of Oceania, that means after admitting tens of thousands to the nation’s elite schools who did not meet the universities’ own prior standards that they themselves once established and apprehensive about terminating such students, higher education is now euphemistically lowering the work load in classes, introducing new less rigorous classes, and inflating grades. In their virtue-signaling, they have little clue that inevitably their once prized and supposedly prestigious degrees will be rendered less valued as employers discover a Harvard, Stanford, or Princeton BA or BS is not a guarantee of academic excellence or mastery of vital skill sets.

Toxic tribalism is also, unfortunately, like nuclear proliferation. Once one group goes full tribal, others may as well, if for no reason than their own self-survival in a balkanized, Hobbesian world of bellum omnium contra omnes. If our popular culture is to be defined by the racist hosts of The View, or the racist anchorwoman Joy Reid, or members of the Congressman “Squad,” or entire studies departments in our universities that constantly bleat out the racialist mantra, then logically one of two developments will follow.

One, so-called whites in minority-majority states like California will copy the tribal affinities of others that transcend their class and cultural differences, again in response to other blocs that do the same for careerist advantage and perceived survival. Or two, racism will be redefined empirically so that any careerist elites who espouse ad nauseam racial chauvinism—on the assurance they cannot be deemed racists—will be discredited and exposed for what they’ve become, and thus the content of our character will triumph over the color of our skin.

Finally, do we ever ask how a country of immigrants like the United States—vastly smaller than India and China, less materially rich than the vast expanse of Russia, without the strategic geography of the Middle East, or without the long investment and infrastructure of Europe—emerged out of nowhere to dominate the world economically, financially, militarily, and educationally for nearly two centuries?

The answer is easy: it was the most meritocratic land of opportunity in the world, where millions emigrated (legally) on the assurance that their class, politics, religion, ethnicity, and yes, race, would be far less a drawback than anywhere else in the world.

The degree to which the U.S. survives DEI depends on either how quickly it is discarded or whether America’s existential enemies in the Middle East, China, Russia, and Iran have even worse DEI-anti-meritocratic criteria of their own in hiring, promotion, and admissions—whether defined by institutionalized hatred of the West, or loyalty oaths to the communist party, or demonstrable obsequiousness to the Putin regime, or lethal religious intolerance.

Unfortunately, our illiberal enemies, China especially, at least in matters of money and arms, are now emulating the meritocracy of the old America. Meanwhile, we are hellbent on following their former destructive habits of using politics instead of merit to staff our universities, government, corporations, and military.

Our future hinges on how quickly we discard DEI orthodoxy and simply make empirical decisions to stop printing money, deter enemies abroad, enforce our laws, punish criminals, secure the border, reboot the military, regain energy independence, and judge citizens on their character and talent and not their appearance and politics—at least if it is not already too late.

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goldkirk · 2 years

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Top 10 mental health/similar books you've read in the past year? (or documentaries, or podcasts, anything is cool!)

this is gonna be all over the place and way more than just 10, sorry, but i'd say my top most impactful things-of-any-type I've encountered in the past year are the following.

Books:

The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog

Reparenting the Child Who Hurts

Take Back Your Life

Zak George's Dog Training Revolution

When the Body Says No

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents

The Case Against Conversion "Therapy": Evidence, Ethics, and Alternatives

On Tyranny

Random:

Plato's allegory of the cave

How Tax Brackets Actually Work

UV Camera Reveals The Best Way to Apply Sunscreen to Your Face

Rhett's story of his personal religious deconstruction timeline

This guy's gut wrenchingly honest, timeline-jumping, clearly articulated, and wryly humorous series explaining his long and truly wild journey to atheism

This 6 minute interview with Liz Hunter where she talks about growing up in a cult without realizing it

Church Services Are Designed to Influence You. Here's How.

Former Evangelical leader Josh Harris on renouncing Christianity

therapist talking about the lies purity culture tells women

a therapist's take on religions and emotional manipulation

Polygamist Cult Founder’s Daughter, Rachel Jeffs, Gives Her First TV Interview

Evangelical blinders/guarding your heart

Big Joel's video on anti-abortion propaganda (large focus on the movie Unplanned)

I fantasized about martyrdom too

Omnipotence paradox & laws of logic

"Cults Inside Out" with Rick Alan Ross

An analysis of the Christian martyr complex via the first three God's Not Dead movies

Raised in a cult and finding her voice (an interview with Liz Hunter)

No True Joy Outside the Church?

Pray Away: A Therapist's Take on Conversion Therapy

Nothing Fails Like Bible History - Episode 1

Personal Autonomy Post-Religion

WHAT do you do after LEAVING a cult? (life after the moonies) (this girl is SO FUNNY)

TheraminTrees's (therapist) YouTube videos, especially:

betting on infinity

rebuttals to 'betting on infinity'

false equivalence | qualiasoup and theramintrees

punishing doubt | religious condemnation of thought

'science' of the gaps

commanded to love | performing false emotions for tyrants

grooming minds | the abuse of child indoctrination

degrading love -- part one | how religions distort the meaning of 'love'

degrading love -- part two | how religions distort the meaning of 'love'

living with abusers

imaginary defects | when dogmas label us flawed

creating sickness | recovering from religion

Philosophy Tube's YouTube videos, especially:

Abortion & Ben Shapiro (you might need to pause this one a few times just to mull things over on your own time)

Ignorance & Censorship

Queer✨

Logic

Who's afraid of experts?

Identity: A Trans Coming Out Story

Social Constructs

The Hidden Rules of Modern Society

FundieFriday's YouTube videos, especially:

FOCUS ON THE FAMILY

THE CREATION MUSEUM & ARK ENCOUNTER

RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS

The post 9/11 Evangelical fever dream that is Jesus Camp

MICHAEL & DEBI PEARL

THE MARTYRS OF COLUMBINE

iilluminaughtii's youtube videos, especially:

The Abusive Practices of Focus on the Family

The IBLP & ATI

Ex-Fundie Diaries' YouTube videos, especially:

Christian Nationalist Child Indoctrination Cult: AWANA

Christian Nationalist Propaganda | Inside My Homeschool "Science" Binder

Christian fundamentalism doesn't always look like the Duggars

Anxiety & Anger Are a Sin in Christian Fundamentalism | Emotional Child Abuse

Child Abuse | Spanking, Neglect, & Psychological Punishments in Christian Fundamentalism

Documentaries:

Scientology and the Aftermath

Pray Away

Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult

Lots of others on YouTube and Netflix I'm sorry it's just hard to dig them all up lol, if I have energy some other time I will

Hope this helps someone!

#thanks anon!!#i always love a chance to talk about things that made a difference in my own views or growth #reference #2022 #2021 #resources #undoing indoctrination #trauma #trauma recovery

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zeroducks-2 · 1 year

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I keep encountering antis in the wild so far my favorite one has been the one who was frothing over Jaytim shippers. "Just because they're not technically brothers"!

Friend they're not technically nor non-technically brothers. They weren't raised together. They don't have a brother dynamic.

"It's different from DickBabs and TimSteph!" Not really! You're just cherrypicking!

90% of antis use anti rhetoric to justify why their ship is better/more valid than another, not because they really care about things they deem immoral or whatever, and I think a lot of Fandom Discourse tends to miss that by a long shot.

Like more often than not it's just bitches digging for reasons why their OTP is the only ship that can be shipped, therefore if you ship something else You're Wrong and the ship you ship shouldn't even exist. They use arguments on morality and such because they're hard to argue with - lots of folks don't know what to say when they're faced with "don't ship X and Y cause it's harmful and abusive!", "you're hurting victims of SA and grooming by shipping X and Y!" - and what happens is that they get scared out of the ships/topics they like and stop engaging actively with fanworks. Sometimes they rationally or subconsciously realize that it works, so they end up even adopting the same rhetoric as it's really fucking convenient: being on the moral high horse is delicious because people feel like it automatically puts them in the category of the good guys, therefore everyone else is a bad guy and they can harass them and send them death threats, even if it's just about shipping fictional characters.

I've seen this happen in basically every single fandom I've been in since I was 12 (and I am Not Young™), and I've seen the most unexpected people use anti rhetoric while not being antis themselves, or even labeling themselves as proshippers, but they would still use anti arguments to "legitimize" their ship and claim how and why it was better than others in the same fandom. Instead of just... saying that one ship in particular is not for them. Tbh lately I'm only trusting multi-shippers not to pull anti bullshit out of their ass, and this niche of the DC fandom is really a safe haven. But I digress.

One of the things that really pisses me off the most is the rampant homophobia. Going by generic anti logic Jaydick is incest, but Dickbabs isn't. Jaytim is incest, Timsteph isn't. Brudick, Brujay, Brutim are all incestuous ships - except Bruce and Barbara isn't. The het ship is fine would you look at that. Childhood friends to lovers is alright with pop culture as long as it's a man and a woman, because if it's two men they'll immediately scream incest and abuse (lumping them together too, while they're also not the same thing ffs). Because hiding behind anti mentality and purity culture there's the big bad monster of queerphobia, which shows its ugly face the moment you take a peek below the surface.

And since I feel like this isn't being said enough. Dick and Jason ARE NOT BROTHERS. Neither are Dick and Tim, or Dick and Damian, Jason and Damian, Jason and Tim, I could go on. These people are not related, not by blood or legally, not in any way that matters and would make it incest. They're a legacy of characters who wear the same cowl for narrative reasons, and THAT'S IT.

Calling Jaydick "incest" irks me to no freaking end because I LOVE incest ships, I am DOWN BAD for them, and this one ain't it chief. They're not related. They didn't grow up together. They don't share any brotherly bond except a vague "brothers in arms" kinda thing. People decided this at some point in order to have an argument why their plastic prepackaged het ships were better than the Bad Abusive (gay) ones, because they're fucking homophobes, and that is about it.

And that's what I really want to say to all the young, queer antis that parrot the terfs and homophobes that pushed them in that direction. They are taking away a space that is YOURS TOO. They fucking HATE YOU. They hate you because you're queer, gay, bi, pan, ace, trans, nonbinary, a woman, even just a teen. Purity culture and anti mentality is how they keep you under control, tied to their morality leash and making life miserable to every other queer person that refuses to conform and refuses to shut up and to stop enjoying fiction for the harmless, but also valuable thing that it is.

#sorry anon I went on a rant #but thank you for the ask I needed to get this off my chest #my asks #fandom discourse

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supernovadragoncat · 10 months

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The thing about moral crusades is that, as soon as morality is brought into the equation, people climb onto that high-horse and use it to justify abhorrent treatment of others under the guise of moral obligation to theoretical victims. The victims are often nameless and faceless, just vague groups of people who may or may not actually exist.

Whereas the people on the receiving end of said abhorrent treatment are very real and very much human.

As a US citizen who inhabits fandom spaces, it’s alarming to see the same rhetoric and talking points from the alt-right recycled by antis and purity culture fanatics in fandom. The culture wars in the US have a remarkably and eerily similar tone to anti vs. pro shipper discourse.

Same tactics, same hate, and all under the umbrella of “must protect the innocents” whether that innocent is a fictional character suffering from fictional abuse or a theoretical child who might theoretically run into a theoretical drag queen and suffer theoretical trauma.

It’s fucking wild and scary. And I bet dollars to donuts a great many of those antis would call themselves progressive.

#on fandom #anti purity culture #I dread the day these two groups act as force multipliers #fandom wank

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antiloreolympus · 1 year

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10 Anti LO Asks

(Note: All of these asks are before episode 206 (Season 2 finale) so some may be dated.) 1. The wild part to me about the "Persephone got approved Underworld citizenship" is it took what, a week at most? Even if you want to use IRL Royal examples, someone like Megan Markle would (if she had kept up the process) still need two YEARS to get approved of it at minimum which includes a lot of paperwork and staying in the country for prolonged time, but Persephone gets it in a few days with no process? Is there really nothing Persephone doesn't get handed to her on a silver platter?

2. "How to be a woke misogynistic :Add white before woman" I think this anon was tryna call antis misogynistic?? Which like. Some of the "criticism" ive seen is just people using lo as an excuse to be misogynistic against rs but most of it is genuine idk what they're going on abt 😭

3. ya know for claiming to be a "loving and supportive fandom with no drama" lo fans are by far the most cruel set of bullies i've ever seen, and I've been in a LOT of intense fandoms. and I can't even handwave these fans as just dumb kids, many of them are adult women who made a mid webcomic their entire world and would rather get a power high off the harassment and bullying of others who dare no obsess over what they do while still thinking they're "feminists". it's so weird 💀

4. Lol I love that the person typed that 'regular' people just drop it and move on when they dislike something. Apparently you're no longer a regular person for disliking and discussing a piece of media 😔

Anyway, LO can bite it. It's misogynistic and an insult to Greek culture among many other glaring flaws. The giant red flag of an age gap and power dynamic between them is one hell of a thing to defend y'all, and it's also a hell of a thing to praise 1 character for cheating but cheer on another character for doing the exact same thing 🙃🙃🙃

Also it's incredibly funny to me how LO stans are so so aggressive and condescending to us about disliking it when we're just minding our own business?? We ain't talking to you nor do we go out of our way to mess with your tags (tumblr is tumblr, y'know) unlike a few of y'all that I've seen specifically use the anti tag to start shit like a bunch of brats. We'll continue minding our own business talking about LO with both non-fans and fans who actually want to have a discussion instead of mindlessly praising it, and y'all should mind your own business.

5. This comic loves to claim it’s pro sexuality, pro kink, and pro female empowerment AND anti purity culture yet loves nothing more than framing sex outsides of Hades as bad, loves to push Purity culture to make Persephone look like the best woman ever, loves tearing other women down for not being the “right” type of woman, and consistently shames others’ consenting sex lives as gross and weird despite the whole comic being an obvious stretched out mess of Rachel’s office setting DDLG kink. Like??

6. I mean I get why LO Hera doesnt murder babies and all but it is an issue RS rides off "I'm not trying to be accurate!" when she makes Hades the "perfect" guy and Hera and Persephone the most desirable/amazing with zero flaws but then turns around and goes "oh well I'm being accurate!" to make Zeus be super mega awful and just make up stuff to pin on Apollo, Leto, and Thetis like?? you can't have it both ways?? Like she obvs picks and chooses who gets to be whitewashed and who doesnt.

7. Go figure LO fans to make Netflix all but closing down their entire animation department and laying off hundreds of people to STILL make it all about LO. I have countless friends who lost their jobs all en-masse with no warning and a neutered severance plan (NF purposely made it be four WEEKS instead of four MONTHS), the majority of them and their productions by BIPOC and/or LGBTQ+ creators and they're only worried over well-off and employed Rachel? Fuck off. I'm so upset over this.

8. Completely and utterly disappointed at LO being nominated for an Eisner again. I think Webtoon has the power to just nominate it every year and ignore all of their other series.

9. Listen we all know every award is just marketing and we know damn well Webtoons just pumps the with money to nominate LO but we know damn well they're giving way more money to pump up their brand now because the Batman comic is so lazily made yet was ALSO nominated for best webcomic and they're like "one of our BIGGEST HITS big ethel energy is being printed!" despite it being one of their most hated series that is lampooned for bad art and writing. anyway they need to be taxed more.

10. HXP is such boring, basic mythology shipping. Get back to me when they give Isis x Osiris and Dionysus x Ariadne the respect they deserve.

#anti lo #anti lore olympus #lo critical #lore olympus critical

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meerawrites · 8 months

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Hi Meera,

Hello! Happy STS!

This is your chance to gush about your current WIP, and tell me why it's so awesome. (No self-depreciation or humility is allowed; you're just awesome as your WIP!)

Aaaaand, go!

*sweating profusely* I haven’t even started on the serious writing part of my novella.

I am, however, a novella’s word count into this self indulgent fan fiction.

So… I guess it’s both. Thankfully, thematically, they are both similar enough that I can shout about both of them and it’ll make sense. So, here it goes…

Both can be synopsized as: these characters are amoral/immoral liars and life ruiners/vampires/dragoons/Lestat in his ‘villain era,’ and I adore them, and relate to them, and if I make the reader think, if even for a little bit that’s a good thing, and if I can very slowly aid in chipping away at “purity culture,” I will. Me and Audrey are beyond caring at this point. Merteuil is a life ruiner and we accidentally encouraged it. Benjamin is a sunbeam liar and killer and he looked real pretty/handsome doing it. It’s really not our fault he’s kind to us and we are both ensnared by our own feelings.

Liaisons x vampires: it’s unapologetically immoral (at least the characters are, which I don’t need to justify to anyone, given the source material that is the point) it is also bi… literally everyone is bi, and somehow, in this sole instance, Audrey and Camille (my vampire unreliable narrators) are put to shame by Merteuil and Valmont and their life ruining. I dare say the humans, in this work, though technically speaking… Audrey and Camille are human for a good percentage of this work, might as well be vampires for the way they take advantage of other people and “drain” people metaphorically. Additionally, vampirism as power allegory tied in with the trauma Cécile Volanges and Audrey have both endured or do endure in the novella. Only Audrey and Camille survive the French revolution of 1789.

Anti-hero: Benjamin Tallmadge is the sole straight character in this entire fan fiction and I usually can’t write straight characters at all so this is a wild exception. (Don’t worry I have other fic(s) where he’s extremely bi and bi coded cause I said so and there’s not enough evidence in any direction so might as well be a fictional character). It’s about the moral quandary of war, politics, vampirism, family (at least for Lestat), and what trauma does to people. It started out as ten chapters inspired by/based on role-play now it’s 20+ chapters in and I’m researching the real life Battle of Yorktown and searching online archives for this fic, so, it might as well be a novella in complexity.

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