#amity critical

[raayllum]

I feel like the owl house fandom takes things way too srsly esp with ships and preferences on characters. idk I love hunter and amity's backstory and I love luz but I'm more interested in hunter and amity's backstory that doesn't make me racist their storylines are more interesting

So this probably won't be what you expected or asked for but I'm grabbing the opportunity anyway to address some of the ways I think TOH falters from a Storytelling perspective and why I think those issues (as well as how young a lot of the fans are, although when I was 11-13 in fandom I was much more chill and "live and let live" so just shows what a decade can do in terms of fan community) unintentionally perpetuate some of what you mention.

Also don't think you're racist for preferring Amity and Hunter (Hunter, Gus, and Luz are my faves) but I do think TOH has some issues with how it handles its characters of colour, so I am going to touch on that. While I'm white. this is reflected on / verbatim from conversations I've had with Black and Asian friends / fans of the show and how racial stuff can tend to play out in fandom (circa 2013 onwards from personal experience of how people have treated fave characters, like Finn from Star Wars, in the past).

That said, I do still like the show. I love the strong found family, everything surrounding Eda and her allegories for mental health are super solid and important, I'm thrilled by the queer rep (I’m queer & watched Korrasami happen live), and I don't think a show has to be perfect or to check off my personal preference to be good. But I do think the show is... an interesting mixed bag for a few key reasons I haven't seen anyone talk about, so here they are.

Under a read more bc this gets long, like, real long, even though there’s only four things on this freaking list, LMAO. For whoever reads it, have fun!

1. The Owl House writes like first impressions don't matter.

This is one of the biggest things in the show that breaks elements of setup + payoff. After all, if your setup is misleading or unaddressed by payoff later, characters and plot lines may come across as stilted. This also ties into other areas (such as screentime) that I'll touch on later.

By far the character who has broken setup the most, though, is Amity. For example, Amity is introduced as someone who has bullied Willow for years, even when no one else is around (i.e. it's not a pure performance), and even though they used to be friends when they were young. Their friendship fall out / Amity distancing herself from Willow is explained by Amity being forced to by her parents, and understandably struggling with how to deal with and explain it as a child.

I haven't seen the last few episodes of S2 (aka I got up to "Hollow Mind") and I was disappointed in S2A when it seemed like this plot element would never be addressed again. So I was very pleased to learn that there is an episode in S2B that talks about their friendship. Except... it doesn't address the bullying. Because yes, Amity tried to protect Willow by distancing herself... but Amity also didn’t need to Bully Willow, like, at all. Not within the confines of the story and not within the landscape of the character; her parents didn’t tell her to be cruel to Willow. She chose to do that. Repeatedly. And that facet of their bond... has never been adequately addressed. It could be, in the future (but I personally doubt it). 

It’s particularly strange, because Luz was 1) canonically bullied in the human realm and 2) perpetually struggled at making friends. It makes sense that she’d be extra against bullies and protective over the friends she does have, and wanting to see real change before bonding with a practical stranger (even if Amity did show a slightly nicer side at the end of “Covention,” it wasn’t an even ratio whatsoever, either of her niceness or Luz’s meanness). But we’ll circle back to this. 

We see this issue of initially bad behaviour being overruled, sometimes retconned, or ignored to the point of being rewritten a few more times in the series. 

The one that ties into Amity’s character are her siblings. In their debut episode, they have plans to share private pages of their little sister’s diary. This is mentioned in another episode as something they’re trying to make up for, but they weren’t there when shit hit the fan at the library, anyway. So we never see 1) why they were going to be so cruel to Amity in the first place (and I have siblings myself, so no, it’s not a sibling thing, or just a sibling thing), 2) what exactly made them change their mind, and 3) this type of behaviour never reappears or is addressed in the show, either. While Luz gets called a bully for it, the twins get off basically scot free. Yes, they’re obviously affected by their mother, too, but there’s never even a whiff or a hint about why they felt the need to humiliate Amity on a public scale besides thinking she was uptight. 

We see this one more time with Darius, which was the most baffling and completely jarred me the first time I watched it. Darius was being cruel and dismissive to Hunter, but warms up when he realizes the kid does have a spine and will stand up for what he believes this. This is not the heart warming moment or message the show seems to think it is. All I heard and saw was an adult going “Oh, this kid is too indoctrinated and abused to be worthwhile until he proves otherwise, I’ll treat him like trash and ignore that I’m exacerbating his symptoms of abuse until then.” And no matter what comes latter, this is a downright weird set up, emotionally. 

I’m not saying that none of these characters can be set up this way, but the introduction and how different they are in all other preceding episodes — or even when information is given to re-contextualize certain things — feels like whiplash. So the setup is a little weird, making pay off either non existent or unnecessary. This stumbling block makes the emotional continuity feel disjointed too, in some aspects. The way this affects emotional continuity can best be seen in Gus, Willow, and Luz’s friendship — but again, more that later.

As for set up and pay off, it can lead to missed opportunities, namely: why the hell was Amity Lilith’s protege in Convention? Again, not saying the show is bad or this is a bad writing choice, but it’s a weird one. I remember watching that episode, seeing Amity be introduced as Lilith’s pseudo apprentice, and being excited. It meant Lilith-Eda, Luz-Amity, and possibly the two menor-mentee relationships could all be developed simultaneously! It’d be interesting to see the parallels and differences.

At the very least, it would give a personal stake to Amity and Luz’s possible developing bond, with Lilith at the very least going to disapprove, and give Amity and Luz a chance to compete against each other and to see that progression.

Then it was never addressed again. And it wasn’t set up as a “one day thing” either. It seems that Lilith possibly tutored Amity for months, maybe even years, for Amity to be considered her “strongest protege” (exact line). So we miss out on that possible, episodic but still connected plot line (especially because after Convention, we never see Amity caring a whole lot about actual school, even though that as her whole thing in her intro and second episode). Then, even when Amity and Lilith are back on the same side (imagine how interesting exploring that fracturing could’ve been!) they... never interact, never mention, and never act like they know each other.

They’re two characters with the same theme and similar arcs split down the middle, have an interesting setup, and it goes.... Nowhere.

Because first impressions don’t matter in the show, which is particularly weird, as typically 1) what you set up in the very beginning of the show is what you want the audience to be invested in, and 2) the audience is going to / has to pay more attention in the beginning of a show because they’re actively trying to learn the rules of the world and character dynamics / personalities. 

And it’s not the only time TOH does this, so let’s talk about

2. Screentime, Race, and Chosen Diaspora

Specifically that Gus and Willow barely get any, and how this ties into race. So I’ve touched on this before in an article I wrote on Vocal where I share meta-adjacent stuff that doesn’t fit my tumblr vibe, so if for some reason this is your thing, they may be other stuff you enjoy on there, whatever. I’m not gonna repeat myself too much here, but basically: 

The majority of the Owl House cast is white, particularly when it comes to who matters in the plot. Eda, Lilith, and their family are all white. Hooty and King exist in what we’re going to call an aracial space, as they don’t have race and aren’t coded as any particular thing, either; just tried and true demons. Hunter is white; Belos is white. Gus and Willow are regulated to background characters and most of the time when Willow is being developed as a character (“Understanding Willow,” “Any Sport in a Storm”) it’s typically also used to further a white character’s growth of... learning to treat her better? Gus fares a bit better, but gets less screentime. 

So not only is Luz the only primary character of colour, she’s largely cut off in forming meaningful relationships with other characters of colour, and having those bonds highlighted and given strong screen time (as thus far in S2, every time Gus and Willow have gotten significant screentime, it’s been largely removed from Luz, with her often doing something else with Amity). Remember when “Star Wars: Rogue One” came out, and there were discussions being had of “a lone woman only having meaningful relationships with men and no other women”? 

[ Side note: as for the first point, I’m not going to say things I love, like TDP, don’t fall into the “woman surrounded by men” trope for its two main female leads, as Rayla is friends with the boys and was raised by her dads, and Claudia’s primary relationships are also with other men. However, I believe this is mitigated with plot lines like Ellis and Lujanne in S1, as well as Janai-Amaya-Khessa in S2 and particularly in S3, and I think this will only continue to grow moving forward into S4 and beyond ] 

At the same time as Rogue One, there were conversations regarding the films status of “people of colour purely as the supporting cast but never as the primary lead”? TOH meets in as a weird hybrid in the middle, with a person of colour as the main lead, but largely surrounded by white people — and this is the case for most characters in the show.

Raine’s main relationship is with Eda. Darius is in the rebellion with them, but his only meaningful relationship on screen in any way is really with Hunter and the past golden guards. Gus and Willow are mostly side characters. We basically never see their families/parents (and know far more about the Blights / Edric and Emira in every way. Gus and Willow ultimately don’t get the time with Luz for me to call their relationship meaningful. This is especially strange, given that often times kids who are bullied (like all three of them are) cling harder to the friends they do have, and that while S1 was better about making Gus and Willow be extremely important to Luz as her First Friends Ever, S2 has dropped the ball even more so. 

Luz is like an island, ironically on the Isles and cut off from her cultural community and from other characters of colour even when they do exist in her new community.  So that’s talk about that in full. 

Now, there is Luz, who is the primary protagonist (honestly, you could argue Eda is her co-protagonist) and she’s lovely and I love her. However, more than once, Luz’s plot line for an episode is a B plot or less plot relevant compared to other characters (particularly Eda). I touched on this in my Vocal article, but Luz is living in diaspora in the Boiling Isles. Yes, the demon realm suits her much better than Earth largely did, but I would still love to see elements of her culture in ways other than her / her family’s name and her occasionally speaking Spanish. What about holidays, what about missing her mother’s cooking and the cultural connotations it holds? 

The show does engage with aspects of the Isekkai genre that are sometimes overlooked, namely Luz being torn between two worlds (and given that she’s mixed, it’s not like the allegory isn’t already there), but it only goes halfway. It only shows Luz wanting to be in the Boiling Isles with none of the possibilities about cultural shock, assimilation, and other aspects that can play into immigrating countries — or realms. I’m not saying the the show not engaging with Luz’s diaspora is a bad thing, but it does feel like a missed opportunity (as most of this is) particularly since they do try to engage with her on a cultural level with her speaking Spanish and writing her as purposefully Afro-Latina and from the Dominican Republic. 

But honestly, basically everything I’ve talked about already — occasionally misleading set up w/ a lack of follow through, screentime (both considering and not considering its racial elements) — are all compounded into my biggest issue with the show, however, which are its 

3. Disengaged stakes

So while I love Luz, I mostly love her for her personality and sweet hearted nature. I don’t actually love her that much for how she drives the plot forward — even though she does, and even though she’s the protagonist. And this is largely because Luz — and many of the characters — exist in a limbo of what I’m going to call Disengaged Stakes. Basically, they have stakes, but due to a lack of set up, or pay off in regards to emotional continuity (never mind a lack of consistency, i.e. sometimes Eda needs to hide, sometimes she can be flashy in public with zero consequences, sometimes getting caught by guards matters when the story decides it needs a conflict, and sometimes it doesn’t etc) it’s hard to actually be invested in those stakes. At least for me. 

For most of S2, this meant I wasn’t really invested in Luz’s efforts to get a portal to see her mom (although this improved when we actually got a singular episode with Camila). It’s clear Luz isn’t going to live full time, if at all, in going back to the human realm. I also wasn’t worried for Camila, as she hasn’t been fearing for Luz this whole time, instead believing things are perfectly fine if not better than they were before. 

Let me give you an example, and this was actually pointed out in a youtube review of the S2 finale that helped me put my finger on why it... felt weird as a finale (again, even though I haven’t fully watched it yet, but I have watched the bulk of it). 

The four kids are stranded in the human realm, but what does that actually mean, for most of them? For Luz, this carries a lot of weight. She’s spent all season trying to find a way home to see her mother, but is now there under awful circumstances with no way back to the place she actually wants to be. It will also offer Camilla the perfect opportunity to see why the Boiling Isles and her family there is so important to Luz.

But what does this mean for the other three kids? Shockingly little. Like I’ve touched on before, we know nothing about Gus and Willow’s families. Yes, I’m sad they’re separated from them, but I’m sad because generally, kids being separated from their parents is sad. I’m not invested in their specific relationship (same issue I had with Rogue One and Jyn’s relationship with her father, as well). All Luz actually wants, in her core, is to stay in the Boiling Isles. Amity’s relationship with her father is on the mend and her siblings are there for her, but Luz is still clearly the most important person in the world to her, and they’re not separated. Hunter has absolutely nothing back for him in the Boiling Isles, largely, and he’s actually as safe as he can be from Belos’ machinations in the human realm. 

So you have four kids tossed into the human realm, and it only really matters for one of them. 

This is amplified in their relationships. Willow and Gus rarely have anything beyond interpersonal stakes; Amity had her mother, but now her father has turned over a new leaf, there are no interpersonal stakes any longer for her family (and she radically stood up to her mother very early on in S2 as well). She and Luz have had no problems in their relationship besides very brief miscommunication and Amity’s mother. Amity has hardly any stakes outside of Luz. The characters who are dealing with very high stakes, such as Raine, are largely shuttered away outside of the story — or Hunter. 

Dear lord, Hunter. Which, now that we’ve gotten here, let’s talk about what I think could have aided in remedying a lot of these issues

4. Merging

Now I know TOH had to jump through a lot of executive hoops (including the existence and plot relevance of Hexside particularly in S1) so I don’t know what sort of orders came down, or mandates they have to follow but:

TOH has too many characters, and plenty of them could have been condensed as pairs into half as many characters.

I know this, because I went through a similar process of originally having a central group of thirteen characters, and cleaved that shit down to seven. So what are my proposed mergings?

The twins become one character. They more or less are now, fulfil the same purposes and character points as one another (flesh out Amity’s family, tease her and be a listening ear, show their mother’s control, operate as illusionists, etc). Whether it’s brother or sister doesn’t really matter.

Gus and Willow become one character. I would say keep more of Willow’s backstory (w/ Amity), dads, and plant magic alight, as the merged-twin character could substitute as the group illusionist whenever need be. It means that instead of only having splintered individual episodes with Luz or for their development, the small collection would be bolstered and improved marginally. It still wouldn’t fix where screentime or set up fails them, but it would be a significant start. I adore Gus, he’s one of my favourites in the whole show — but he’s less plot relevant than Willow, who is already largely not plot relevant (at least, not outside Hunter’s arc in S2) and we gotta be economical somewhere.

Economical storytelling is when a character, scene, or plot beat is doing at least three things at once, largely — and right now Gus is doing the least, as much as I love my boy, with Willow right next to him. Thus, there we go.

Now for the big, perhaps flat out unpopular one:

Hunter and Amity should’ve been one character. Like the twins, and even Amity and Lilith, they’re largely one theme split down the middle. The show draws intentional parallels between their world views, callousness, and need to be the best due to their abusive families, their strong relationships / connections to Luz, who works to friendship and who are changed by her kindness. There are also less thematic but still overt parallels, like their artificial wands, opposing palismans (bird vs cat), travelling into mindscapes where they uncover secrets. Hell, they both even have a reformed father figure who works with the Abominable coven with a shittier parent who believes in their own superiority at any cost. 

Say Golden Guard Amity is enrolled in Hexside — she has to be trained somewhere — and throughout the season we hear her refer to her uncle, who raised her. He just wants the best for her, and for her to be a worthy member of the Emperor’s coven! It’s only at the end of S1 we learn that Amity’s uncle is Belos, and that her growing bond with Luz may be tested in the future. Then, in S2, she has to make a choice between her familial loyalty, ideological defection, and Luz and her friends (who will have more time to be friends, because there are less characters running around). You can even keep the condensed twin as a surrogate sibling mentor — perhaps one of Belos’ more successful grimwalkers, or flat out not a clone at all.

This merger gives Luz and Amity real stakes in their relationship, a higher sense of drama amid the sweet fluffiness, gives more characters more screentime... And amplifies everything that already exists in Amity’s arc. Yes, seeing a quieter form of child abuse from Odalia is worthwhile, particularly for abused children — but as of S2 she’s basically gone full bad guy and has already done so before in early S2, as her abomaton nearly kills Luz in “Escaping Expulsion” so... moot point? Sorta? Is what I’m saying. 

It would also, for the love of god, give Amity a solidified reason to dye her hair after she finds out she’s a grimwalker. She wants to reassert her own identity, she wants to be different than her successors while also honouring their good nature, etc etc. Imagine “Hollow Mind” but with Amity in Hunter’s place, and all the weight that would hold for each of them, and for Hunter’s character, now condensed into Amity’s. Also stronger parallels of Belos’ clones becoming less like his brother (because Amity is a girl) over time and with parallels of the implied plot line, of Belos killing his brother because Caleb fell in love with a witch, and it’s happening again, this time just with Luz and Amity, directly.

Basically the only things that would have to change would be a little of S1′s pacing, some of S2′s Blight parent related episodes (so largely two until the finale, which again, Darius or the condensed twin could easily substitute)oOr, to come full circle, you could have Lilith also play a factor, the way she did in Amity’s arc in the beginning. This would provide a greater sense that characters actually had lives and connections and little ship passing in the night moments before Luz showed up, and they would all feel more like!! REAL PEOPLE!!

The only thing that would possibly, likely have to go is Willow’s history with Amity.But given that the show has never really addressed the bullying, perhaps that backstory element would be better left dropped, in general. Amity can be a jerky bully without specifically bullying Luz’s friend for like, 4-6 years beforehand, y’know.

Anyway I will never not believe in the validity of what I call TOH Merger and how it would strengthen basically almost every single aspect of the show, take it or leave it. 

Conclusion / Nitpicks

Other notes before we wrap up.

I got bored with just how many episodes relied on the “Character A doesn’t want to fess up to something bc they’re insecure, scared, or trying to look Cool, but inevitably lie and make things ten times worse, and then learn it’s important to be honest” in S1 (hi King, Luz, Willow, and Gus eps respectively). 

Amity’s laser character focus on Luz stifles her relationships with both Willow and Gus (as it is more or less non existent outside of a few lines or group scenes); all of Amity’s character growth is largely because of her relationship with Luz, but the same cannot be said for Luz, leaving their relationship lopsided. This is particularly true for me (and is a total personal Aro-spec induced nitpick) and is all the more glaringly obvious considering they barely had one episode where the two were on friendly / friend-ish terms before crush feelings on Amity’s side came in. This makes me feel less invested in their relationship as a whole, as while it’s exceedingly cute, it feels like it’s based on nothing but Crush™ Feelings and that will also be less compelling to me than a strong Foundational Friendship that develops into a crush. I don’t mind that development happening fast, but this was a little too fast in my book. 

Final disclaimer: Still like the show, still think it’s good, these are just some of the reasons I don’t think it’s Great. The lack of a Merger will haunt me. Thank you goodnight

#toh #toh critical #toh salt #willow park #amity critical #MAYBE?? #gus porter #just covering my bases #toh criticism #no show is perfect if u disagree or don't wanna see criticism #both of which are totally fair! #just move along #non tdp #analysis series #mine #analysis #will be reblogging to main as well for good measure #i spent too long on this but it's DONE #this isn't even salt or criticism just #mostly me being Baffled by some of the character writing choices #from a structural standpoint

[mebssann]

Amity pestered Principal Bump enough times that he finally allowed Hexside to have a student council

#this was an excuse to draw Amity and Matt as President and Vice President student councils respectively #listen #Amity is obviously a responsible student and dedicated enough to make this happen that she was labeled as 'obssessed' #with making a student council ok #and Matt is canonically a great leader I WILL NOT TAKE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM #the owl house #Amity Blight #Boscha #Luz Noceda #Willow Park #Gus Porter #Mattholomule #Lumity #fanart #digital art #my art

[flower-boi16]

Can we talk about the fact that TOH, a kid's show that aired on the Disney channel, has an unironically a better gay/sapphic relationship with Lumity than either of these "adult shows"?

Lumity is an incredibly well-developed ship; Its gradually built up throughout season 1 and season 2A and they don't drag the shit out of it, they are just incredibly cute together. The ship isn't abusive and toxic...

...unlike Stolitz, which is a very toxic ship where the victim is portrayed as the abuser and the abuser is framed as just an UwU soft boy. Another thing about Lumity that makes it a good relationship is the fact that Amity is her own character; she isn't solely defined by Luz, her relationship with Luz is an important part of her character, sure, but she still has a lot of development in the series that makes her a well-developed, three-dimensional character.

Compare that to Chaggie, which while not nearly as bad as Stolitz, still has issues, that being how Vaggie's character entirely revolves around Charlie, she doesn't have any real development outside of that. There is the stuff about her being a fallen angel but we'll have to see what the show does with it to make a full judgment, but the reveal that she is a fallen angel feels too rushed to give her depth.

Vaggie doesn't feel like her own character, she feels like she's completely defined by her relationship with Charlie, and she doesn't have that much of a character outside of that. Amity meanwhile, is her own character beyond her relationship with Luz, even in Season 2 where people say that supposedly Amity became just "Luz's girlfriend", she still had that whole conflict with her parents.

Lumity is infinitely superior to both of these ships guys.

Then again TOH blows HH/HB out of the water in every single aspect so...

#hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel criticism #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #the owl house #toh #lumity #amity blight #luz noceda #anti stolitz #anti stolas #anti charlie x vaggie #anti chaggie #vivziepop criticism

[citricacidprince]

Can I give another massive sorry to the Owl House crew and Dana here?

Looking at the first 6 minutes of season three and I can tell they wanted to make a whole episode of Hunter discovering that book and cutting his hair. They wanted to have an episode of Luz finding out a way to come out to her mom about being bi and dating Amity. They wanted to have an episode of Vee finally figuring out how they want to look like since the can't look like Luz anymore. They wanted to have an episode of the witch kids making up human disguises and seeing what the human world has to offer. They wanted to have an episode that shows the kids working on the door and failing time and time again to get it to work. They wanted to have an episode where all the kids, yes even Luz, struggling to adapt being in the human world. They wanted to have an episode of the witch kids discovering human things for the first time, like rain, and falling in love with Luz's world.

They wanted to, but they couldn't.

Disney said the show didn't "fit their brand" and now all these moments we would've had episodes for are forced to be in a 2-3 minute long montage. And while I'm happy we get to see these moments at all, a part of me is very bitter knowing what Disney did to Dana and her crew.

I hope they know that I appreciate all that they could do with what limited time they had.

I hope they know I want to kill Disney with my bare hands knowing how they cut this amazing shows lifetime short.

Edit: In honor of some of the comments I've been getting I made this

#i was happy watching the teasers but i got hit with such a bittersweet feeling afterwards that i just had to share #the owl house #toh #toh spoilers #the owl house s3 #the owl house season 3 #toh s3 spoilers #toh s3 #toh season 3 #disney #disney critical #disney channel #dana terrace #luz noceda #amity blight #hunter wittebane #hunter deamonne #camila noceda #vee noceda #prince rambles in this chilies tonight #prince's gold star posts

[fagbearentertainment]

People are so extra hard on queer media for dumb shit and it makes me so fucking mad. Can’t put it into words rn but I’m doing this to people who shit on queer media for the smallest thing but when straight media does the exact same thing they don’t care

#this doesn’t apply to genuine criticism btw #it’s for stupid shit like that person who said the owl house wasn’t good enough rep #bc they didn’t have luz say she’s bi and amity say she’s a lesbian on screen in season 1 #lgbtqia

[mdhwrites]

Honestly I personally believe Sasha Waybright character arc was better written and engaging than Hunter and Amity’s arcs combined mostly because there was more agency in her arc and while the other two characters who go from enemies to allies to friends just didn’t engage me as much as Sasha’s.

I’m especially dissatisfied with Hunter and how his story while interesting wasn’t as cool as it could’ve been

So I've talked a lot about this in the past but the angle I'll take this time is simple: Sasha is more compelling as a villain to ally arc because the show let her be a villain.

That might sound simple but it's clearly something TOH itself struggled with. One could argue that ALL of the redemptions in TOH follow a pattern of one bad action followed by them being tenuously on the same side and then on the same side. Amity is out of character for her first episode and then Luz is actually at fault for Covention, even if Amity takes it too far. Then Amity is weirdly antagonistic during Hooty's Moving Hassle and then NEVER AGAIN. Three episodes into knowing her and she is now the person we are supposed to sympathize and want around and her biggest crime feels entirely out of character for the rest of her portrayal.

Hunter is similar. His first appearance is not Hunter. It's the Golden Guard who is WAY more fun a character than Hunter ever was and kind of a bastard. Then the mask is removed in his second real appearance (not counting the stinger in Escaping Expulsion) and he is someone to start sympathizing and working with. He is the sad but mad boy by his third major appearance and his second appearance makes him somewhat sympathetic, just like Covention did for Amity... Or For the Future does for The Collector despite lines like "I can't wait to play amongst the bones!" in Hollow Mind that feel, drumroll please, OUT OF CHARACTER TO THE REST OF HIS WRITING!

Lilith is the only to subvert this... Kind of. No, they actually go out of order but still the same essentially with her. Her first appearance makes her sympathetic and not properly a threat because she's still willing to play ball with Eda for a one on one competition, then she spends the second half of S1 just palling around in shenanigans she should not be allowing but is because... Fuck you. Then we get her one truly evil action in kidnapping Luz, coupled also with having been the one to curse Eda but that's also used to show she's a good person now so the kidnapping is the bigger deal here. Then... She's just a good guy afterwards.

This all makes for the most shallow, bullshit uses of this trope I think you can do while being allowed to claim you did it. After all, a key point to all of these redemptions aren't "Then they sided with the good guys," it's just "Then they're a good person." They don't bring who they were as a villain with them. The strengths that led to their villainy are just gone and they're hard to say what they were in the first place, what they add to the narrative in their redemption and joining of the main party because who were they before they joined. What are they actually fighting against as a person instead of just deciding not to be evil anymore or wanting the cookies that the light side offers?

It'd be like if after Sasha was redeemed, she was as bad as Anne at being able to lead and use people. If the show went "To better erase all the crimes she's done, not only will we say Sasha only is a bad person because her father is Ultra Satan but also she now is entirely incompetent in what she was good at before." Amity loses her intelligence. Her plans are always the most straightforward after she starts getting a crush on Luz and she canonically started having her grades slip. Hunter is the most pathetic character in the main cast with I think zero wins in his belt besides his first appearance despite being the only one with combat training. Lilith is just... Sad in how much they reduce all she was for over forty years of her life to go "Now she's a silly nerd girl. Fuck ambition."

And, of course, their bad sides being blamed on mother, uncle, mother kind of for Lilith actually, just that the exposition for that comes after her redemption, and the Archivists and Belos for the Collector. They aren't bad people, they just were forced to spend time with the wrong people. Now that they're nerds and led by nerd Jesus, everything is okay.

There is a VEEERY real problem in TOH of Us vs. Them mentality that comes from these arcs that's really gross. Swap Luz to a white, male jock and suddenly the show becomes WAY MORE UNCOMFORTABLE!

Sasha dodges all of this because no one tries to excuse Sasha. Sasha never tries to pretend she's anyone other than who she is except for when she's explicitly putting on an act. This means everything compelling and good about her as a villain can cleanly transition to when she is a hero, even if it's hard to believe that which the show even calls out.

There is no Sasha's Angels in TOH. That might be a weird one to reference to you because it doesn't include much Sasha but it nails on the head what makes this trope so exciting. To Anne, Sasha letting others do the work while she gets to theoretically kick back looks like the same old Sasha that she now is suspicious of. Someone who is self serving and so Anne lashes out. However, it's not the case. Sasha's ability to manipulate always came from being able to read a person's weaknesses and strengths. She's a MUCH better manipulator than Belos in this way because she doesn't leverage on you or for you to already be siding with her. She can read you like a book and tear apart your pages until she plays with your spine. And as a hero, that's going to mean she's a great delegator. She's the sort who would go "Nah, we don't need to save them from what you see as certain doom. I know he can deal with it." And she's right. Not because of blind faith but because of the same skills that made her villainous.

Something that wouldn't hit nearly as hard, or feel reasonable on Anne's part, if we didn't get so many examples of this being who Sasha is. Of the fact that Sasha uses other people for her own means. And even now, you can claim the same... Except it's not for her means. It's for their needs.

It actually is part of what makes her becoming a therapist so pitch perfect. A good therapist can call you out when you're trying to hide behind something to not get to the core of your problems. They can catch what is at the root of your issues even as you don't see it yourself. They also can see your value and use your strengths to help combat those problems after helping you identify them. It's actually pretty close to how she tried to get out of Toad Tower in her first appearance. Bring in someone, earn their trust, use their passions against their weaknesses and make them better. The only difference is that now she cares about making them better.

Amity, Hunter and Lilith could never have such a satisfying future because again: What are their strengths? Hell, post redemption, that statement stands true. You can call Amity good at magic I guess but Hunter and Lilith are pathetic people who kind of luck out in being useful at times and that's really it. These aren't people who have anything going for them. They're as good as goons with one of them being an elite in a one off episode as far as villain forces go and that's not very compelling for a redemption of this sort. Not unless you're really going to get into that and A: Lilith was one of the strongest mages on the Isles and studied her ass off so you'd think she'd mocked less for sucking at her job and being a fucking moron and B: they didn't even try for half a second with Hunter who I don't really know if they intended to make look as pathetic as he did skill wise.

So their futures are just random factoids introduced during the story. Does Amity being an inventor say anything about her redemption? No. In fact, it really sucks because Odalia would have LOVED her daughter to follow in her father's footsteps because that's the most profitable option for their company. Good job show. Hunter just takes up the job that connects him with the only thing we know is explicitly Caleb related, no conjecture needed, which sucks for a character who was supposed to be his own person. Then Lilith is... A historian. Because she likes that I guess. Does that have anything to do with her time as the coven head? No. Her ambitions? GOD NO. It's just a random choice that puts her in line with the inoffensively nerdy cast.

And before ANYONE says anything about the shortening, I want to say I've done a blog comparing the fact that Amity, in S2A (so before the shortening) has as many appearances as Sasha does in Sasha's entire redemption arc. You didn't need more time to do this better, the show needed to actually commit to its concepts. Actually needed to be willing to do its tropes rather than slapping it on for marketability and to make lazy analysts happy.

Because enemies to allies is not one of those tropes you can half ass. Not unless you want none of its power and boy, these are some weak character arcs. At least we've got Sasha.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

#amphibia #sasha waybright #the owl house criticism #toh critical #amity #Hunter #Lilith

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

I swear... Belos deserved so much more....

Lowkey...I want Odalia Blight to end up with a much better husband/business partner and being a capitalist queen. (I see her getting with either Honsou/Perturabo)

Cause here's the damn thing... Alador gets too little flack for what he did... and just cause he stood up for Odalia... he really didn't do shit. Hell... It would be better for them to cut off BOTH of her parents.

TBH, it would be funny for Luis to try and "the friendship is Magic" shit on Perturabo (who would NOT listen to any of that nonsense) or Belos somehow getting somebody like Konrad Curze and uses him to hunt down Eda. Or Lorgar getting in, KILLING Belos and making thing WORSE.

I answered a similar ask about Odalia here.

Belos definitely deserved better writing because he's the main villain yet the show did a poor job of making the coven system actually oppressive and the coven scouts are just mooks that can quit their job with zero repercussions. This just makes Belos look bad as a dictator and a villain. Plus, there's his implied backstory and narrative foil with Luz that was stripped of all nuance and ends with "you're a good person because your motives are pure and not a power-hungry meanie."

As for Odalia, she didn't need to be deep but she didn't need to be so basic either. She's largely a caricature that doesn't really have anything meaningful to say about how capitalism supports oppressive regimes but the show isn't about that. So we have the abusive mom who tries to mold her daughter into her own image. Great concept, really lazy execution, especially since once Amity meets Luz, she doesn't really struggle with the expectations of her mother with the freedom her new crush provides.

As for Alador, he was implied to be on equal footing with Odalia and on the same page as her only to be retconned as a distant father who is "redeemed" once he stands up to his wife. Guess we're not going to address those years of emotional neglect. Also, Amity for some reason gets into engineering when she never really displayed an interest in that before. So instead of becoming like her mother, she turns into her dad. Great work, team.

(Also, I don't know who those other characters are you mentioned. I don't play video games).

#the owl house #toh critical #toh criticism #amity blight #odalia blight #emperor belos #philip wittebane #alador blight #asks

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

the two ends of the bad redemption spectrum are “character changes way too much and basically has a whole new personality now” and “character doesn't change at all but somehow they're considered a hero now”. guess which one catra is.

#examples for the first one would be basically every redeemed antagonist in toh #amity‚ lilith‚ hunter #they all had really compelling personalities but as soon as they're redeemed they turn into awkward lovable nerds #because god forbid a good person is sassy or flawed #i miss the old amity and hunter ngl #spop critical #spop salt #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop #she ra #anti spop #anti toh #toh salt #toh critical #(in tags)

[mayandjuly1811]

It's crazy how some people criticize Luz for being a bad friend for befriending Amity but no one says the same things when Willow befriends Hunter. 

In Season 1, Amity verbally bullies Willow in only two episodes: S1ep3 (I was a teenage Abomination) and S1ep6 (Hooty's Moving Hassle). Ever since episode 6, there aren't any episodes in which Amity verbally bullies Willow anymore. And Luz befriends Amity since s1e12 (Adventures in the Elements). Amity hasn't apologized to Willow at that time, but at least she stops her bullying.

“Luz is a terrible friend for being close to her friend's ex bully.” Then by that logic, isn't Willow a terrible one for befriending Hunter, the one that hurt her friends more?. Willow knows that the Golden Guard works for Belos, who almost petrified Eda. And as a close friend to Luz, Willow also knows how Hunter attacked Eda, Luz and King in Separate Tides and how he attacked and threatened Amity in Eclipse Lake. Moreover, Hunter also lets the Scouts kidnap and lock Willow's flyer derby team up.

Even though Hunter stops Darius from kidnapping the flyer derby team, he is still a threat. Why? Hunter was still the Golden Guard who is extremely loyal to Belos before "Labyrinth Runner". He hasn't proved that he's not a threat and an ally. Yet, Willow still befriends him and texts him after he kidnapped her and her flyer derby team as well as hurting her other friends. Strangely, no one says anything about that. 

The hypocrisy makes me annoyed since it has something to do with misogyny and Huntlow favoritism over Lumity 

#toh #toh critical #anti huntlow #luz noceda #amity blight

[the-owl-house-takes]

understanding willow is mainly about amity and i hate it.

don’t get me wrong, i love the CONCEPT of going into the mindscape, especially willows, but it was mainly about amity trying to be a better person and it kind of took away the appeal of the episode. i still love the episode, don’t get me wrong, but, instead of understanding ‘willow’, it’s more of understanding amity, and WHY she did what she did, and WHY she acts like she acts. i feel like it’s completely unfair to say it’s about willow just because they go into her mind to fix it, plus, we barely even get to see her memories that much, like, it’s just repairing and amity acting all weird around luz. so, i feel like even if understanding willow was a good episode, it should’ve been more willow-centric, not amity-centric.

-

#the owl house #toh #amity blight #Willow park #long post #toh critical

[panphilosopher]

#lesbian #lesbophobic #sapphicphobic #homophobic #canon vs fanon #ships #fandom criticism #fandom ships #fanon #canon #fandom #amity blight #judy alvarez #vaggie #hazbin vaggie #ymir #ymir freckles #pearl steven universe #pearl su #tracer #tracer overwatch #ellie williams #ellie tlou #meme #wlw #sapphic

[everysongineverykey]

the owl house was really like oh yeah by the way a significant number of children avoided being collected solely because they were hiding out inside this one high school and all the adults in the building and a few of their classmates and friends were turned to puppets right before their eyes and taken away and they've just been alone here ever since. yeah it's been months since they've seen their families. it's unclear whether or not they're aware that the collector's been using their loved ones as toys in reenactments of the adventures of a lost friend of theirs. there are kindergarteners trapped in there. they spent a significant amount of time and effort on a meticulous, perfectly constructed stone statue honoring their collected principal who was one of the only people protecting them when the collector's spies came and it's dorky and unprofessional but they're so genuinely grateful for what he did and they never got to thank him themselves. their "leader" is the former captain of the grudgby team who's deeply traumatized and terrified 100% of the time and only took the job cause she wanted some sense of control over a nightmare situation. an adult in disguise has been manipulating her to do what she's told this entire time. their food is rotten and moldy and they were so scared of being found they put a sign up outside that said "no non-puppets inside". yeah. it's funny though. it's just a silly joke. look at luz's new palisman!

#the owl house #toh spoilers #this isn't a criticism of new hexside's portrayal or anything #i don't think it's tonally bad or whatever to play this mostly for a joke it's a great segment #i just. god. i have a lot of thoughts about the new hexside kids. they're KIDS okay they're kids #and they think they're responsible for rebuilding society. they can't leave their makeshift home #without risking being collected or killed. hell they can't WALK AROUND INSIDE without risking harm. #i think about that kindergartener pretending to kill an enemy to 'save their father' and i just. sigghhhh. #the littler kids probably have even less of an idea what's going on than the older ones. god. do they even know where their parents are??? #like. god. do you understand?? do you see my agitation?? ed fell into an empty well while running for his life #away from the spies #after trying to find and rescue amity and alador no less! #and he spent the next few months in a full body cast!! you don't walk away from that unscathed! he's a kid!!!

[s1zar]

I rewatched Owl House.

First season is so average, like they make it by a notebook

Lilith get off the hook too easily

Fucking body swap plot is annoying in anything but Gravity Falls and Adventure Time

Willow and Amity reconciliation is too quick

Titan Trappers are exist only to exist

Who the fuck put this magic door in Titan’s skull and then put Collector Dish there

How did witches have information to tell legends about the Collector?

When Amity and Hunter are cut off from they Evil Pumping Stations they are lost all personality

Belos is boring as fuck. His only character trait is that he is evil, which is laughable for the show that tell us people are complex. That’s why he only will be referred as Evil Dude

Odalia is so stupidly evil that it’s impossible to take seriously

Lumity is not developed further than “Girlfriends” and the only reason why Lunter could be better is because it’s just easier to develop

Luz and Evil Dude’s parallel starts and ends with the fact that they are humans

Evil Dude is an idiot

Collector could be named Plot Device

Raine is very meh. They only personality is that they are hero

Evil Dude is said to be the strongest witch ever, but he almost looses to five teenagers

What was the point of standing against coven system if in the end we have a squad from a fucking RPG game. Character form plants, character for illusions, character for abominations, character for teleportation

Evil Dude have as much super powers as the plot need

Characters have zero reaction of learning they arch enemy story

Evil Dude looses all small glimpses of being an actual character and become villain of the week

Absence of chemistry between Hunter and Willow can cause physical pain

For the Future is one of the most useless things created by a human being

Caleb Wittebane appears for reasons and never affects anything, so he will referred as Fan-service Background

Collector is an insult to God

I hate Collector

“One character hears half of what other character says and is offended by it, only for the audience learn that other character didn’t actually mean what first character thought they mean” plot line is a violation of Geneva Conventions

Evil Dude spending 98% percent of his screen time in finale as giant roaring green blob is a final shot from a shotgun in a head of his characterisation

Luz is Chosen One now. Message of the show is annihilated by Atomic Bomb

Titan is an asshole who assaulted a child because there was no one else to assault

There two villains. One looks like a child, have sparkles in his eyes, and flies and a star with happy face. Second is goopy skinny, rots in real time, have eyes in places that supposed to be without eyes, and he shrieks like an Alien. Who of the two is going to be redeemed?

The moment Evil Dude is dead Boiling Isles is an utopia. If you take this seriously, I don’t feel sad for you, I will laugh at you

Hunter becomes Caleb 2.0, and that’s why you dig up in the fact that you are a clone, my boy. You never know if your actions are actually yours

Evil Dude’s death better than Toffee’s only because this time main antagonist dies by the end of the series

The fact that Owl House doesn’t redeem it’s main antagonist like Steven Universe or have a better ending than SVTFOE is not an argument

Fuck Collector

I could write what I liked but it would be boring

#the owl house #toh critical #toh criticism #emperor belos #philip wittebane #luz noceda #willow park #gus porter #hunter toh #amity blight #raine whispers #papa titan #the collector #the collecter toh #collector should kill himself #caleb wittebane #Evil Dude

[flower-boi16]

If TOH Was Written By Vivziepop

For starters, Luz would barely been much of a main focus, despite being the main character since, ya know, she's female

Camila would be an abusive bitch of a mom

Amity would have no personality beyond being "Luz's girlfriend".

Generally, all female characters like Eda, Willow, and Amity would receive little development and focus and only get very one-note character traits

Belos would be woobified and portrayed as a UwU soft boy that we are supposed to sympathize for

Hunter would be demonized and victim blamed for standing up to his poor uncle

Lilith would be a one-dimensional bitch with no depth or personality and remain a villian

The show would have a bunch of rando plotlines crammed in making it unfocused

All the villains would have their depth and nuance removed except for Belos who would again, be woobified

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel criticism #vivziepop criticism #the owl house #toh #luz noceda #camila noceda #eda clawthorne #amity blight #willow park #emperor belos #hunter toh #lilith clawthorne

[milfcamilanoceda]

I feel like a lot of "Camila shouldnt have been a nerd, it should have been Manny and Camila should have been the neurotypical one." Criticism fail to take into account the inter generational trauma that exists in POC families especially POC neurodivergent families. Like the criticism boils down to this- "Luz comes across more of a jerk as she wasnt That lonely. Camila would have been more understanding of Luz if she was actually neurodivergent and would not have try and send her to the camp" and i am like no, no she wouldnt have. Neurodivergency in people of colour often goes undiagnosed especially if they are women of colour and especially if they are from older generation. And often times these older folks grow up to believe that the neurodivergent issues that they dealt with was a failure on their part rather than you know, them being neurodivergent. Which is how we get adult parents who say shit like, "Oh everybody has [a very specific symptom of a neurodivergent brain]. You just got to go through it [aka i did not get any support growing up and had to deal with this on my own]."

And this to me fits Camila and Luz. The way i interpret the problem was that it was never that Camila didnt understand Luz, but rather that she did understand her while not understanding herself. She saw her own self in Luz, her own isolation and years dealing with bullying and treated as an outcast but never stopped to examine WHY it happened to her. She didnt want Luz to go through what she went through so she turned to what worked for her, trying to change yourself to fit even if it meant hiding parts of herself. And this is ultimately what caused their relationship to falter. Add Manny's death and them being new in town further resulted in both of them, especially Luz being isolated and outcast, from the town and from each other. And ultimately them coming to an understanding, with Camila admitting her nerdy side to Luz and to herself was what helped their relationship and truly let Luz to discover what she truly want and thus hatching her palisman.

Should toh have had explored Luz's loneliness and isolation better? Absolutely! Did Camila try her best especially as a single mother? Yes! Has Camila contributed to said loneliness and isolation? Also yes! Camila to me is the opposite of Eda. Where Eda was the neurodivergent kid who grew up fighting the system to be herself, Camila was the neurodivergent kid who grew up to accept the system thus rejecting herself. Which was why Luz flourished much more and felt more accepted under Eda's tutelege than she did with Camila, and i wish this is the angle toh explored more.

And look i dont want to begrudge anyone who feels the other way and doesnt agree with me. They have the right to their own interpretation which are based on their own valid experiences. But i prefer this interpretation a lot more to theirs.

#Anyway this is just my take #Toh has A LOT to say about institutions using isolation to exploit people #And how even if there are people who can understand and care about you cant do it because ultimately they too are part of said system #Luz's loneliness absolutely should have been explored much more i 100% agree with that #and it still annoys me that we got so much more deeply into Eda's Hunter's and Amity's backstories than we did with Luz #But i feel taking away Camila's secret nerdy side takes away from a canonically an incredibly layered relationship #Especially cause to me Camila and Luz's relationship and their misunderstandings was the driving force of toh's plot #They are all flawed!!! They are all flawed because they are traumatized by the system!!! #Anywat here's my hot take #camila noceda #luz noceda #the owl house #the owl house spoilers #toh spoilers #Does this count as toh crit? #I do think the show do have certain problems and no the shortening wasnt the only problem #toh #eda clawthorne #It was still a good show. Not perfect but good #toh critical #toh criticism #(I guess i'll tag it anyway)

[daystarvoyage]

An Amity Chapter Of My TOH MOVIE preview is coming up, yes I did justice like the rest of the cast, but yeah I’ll be making a lot of adjustments with the story & lore soon, so an update is coming soon in may.

And yes She is Going to be written well, She's gonna be badass & she's gonna show a more vulnerable side we didn't get to see,

More info during momocon.

#the owl house #lumity #hunter toh #luz noceda #huntlow #lunter #toh gus #toh amity #toh #youtube #toh hot takes #toh criticism #toh critic #toh fanart #owl house #hexsquad #camila noceda #toh luz #gus porter #gusporter #toh willow #amillow #huntmity #goldenlight #vee noceda #huntceda #hunter deamonne #hunter wittebane #caleb wittebane #toh belos