#spindlehorse critical

[uniquepeanutcreatorfire]

I saw this Twitter post and couldn’t agree more. When you think about it, Alastor behaves more like a realistic abuser than Valentino. Of course, this is completely unintentional by Viv since Alastor is supposed to be the favorite and quirky one. This is what happens when you make all your villains/abusers over-the-top, one-note, and super obvious bad guys. This is what also happens when there’s no established morality in the shows.

Then the fandom wants be surprised when Alastor is called evil or vile, have to keep citing potentially outdated outside sources, and Viv has to explain Alastor’s character in interviews instead of the show itself.

Like Stolas, Alastor won’t really be called out for his bad actions and the narrative will used this mysterious deal he’s in to make him sympathetic. Like Blitz, the fandom will blame Husk for the situation as he “consented” to the deal or probably say “Well he was an overlord too and he may have hurt people too”. Even though the show uses Husk’s deal to bond with Angel.

#vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #spindlehorse criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique

[showtoonzfan]

I know I said I’d stop watching Helluva, but since this is a five minute short and not an episode, I decided to watch it, especially since it revolves around Millie and Sallie. However I don’t have much to say, this short is honestly a nothing burger, it revolves around Sallie coming to the pride ring to visit Millie for an evening out, but the only scene that matters is the last minute because the majority is just a montage of Sallie and Millie going around town and enjoying themselves.

The major thing is the fact that Millie is excited to see Sally and has a fun time with her. What happened to that “sibling rivalry” huh Viv? You know, the one that you argued gave Millie depth? And by the way, this short does nothing for Sallie and Millie as characters. Millie is the same bubbly and nice yet bloodthirsty character she always is. Meanwhile Sallie was hyped up for so long and yet she’s kinda just….there. She doesn’t really have any interesting or defining characteristics, she really is a brownie point cardboard cutout with little personality, like I’m sorry but it’s funny how we finally get content revolving around two females and it’s very empty, though I don’t know what I expected.

Sallie has this out of nowhere forced emotional moment where she shares she’s upset that Millie left her home town. I guess this could have been interesting had it been built up before, but this is writer Vivziepop we’re talking about, nothing is built up and everything comes out of nowhere. Part of it doesn’t help because this is the first time we’re getting to know Sallie as a character and yet you’ve already retconned her relationship with Millie. In the end it doesn’t matter, Millie says that she’ll try to visit her family more and that Sally can visit too whenever she wants, then it ends with them watching a show. This did nothing for Millie’s character, her relationship with her family, or Sallie’s character, (if you can call her one) and I find it funny that the relationship between Mille and her sister isn’t even in an episode, they don’t affect the main story or plot at all that a five minute short was enough, it’s just telling lol. Anyways short wasn’t god awful or bad just a nothing burger, something Viv’s writing has been for some time now.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical #anti vivziepop #helluva boss critique

[penguinofspades]

Me and the boys when a grown man refers to a fictional 17 year old as a cock blocker and a slut:

#anti helluva boss #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critical #anti spindlehorse #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #Jesus fucking Christ Brandon #Why the fuck would you say that

[thowawayuntilfurthernotice]

I wasn't going to address this, because every time I criticize Brandon Rogers for saying something stupid at a con I get a couple of hardcore fans yelling at me in the replies and reblogs. But I decided to make an exception because this is sad even for him.

No, I don't have a problem with the joke itself. Trust me, as someone who is old enough to remember Rogers' old Vine skits, this joke is pretty tame compared to his older stuff.

The issue here is that he's clearly throwing Octavia under the bus because the character isn't well liked among the hardcore Stolitz fans. As a lot of them hate her for getting in the way of their precious ship.

Now, I'm not the type of person who gets involved in shipping discourse (Because it's stupid) but I find it funny how Rogers is trying to score brownie points with the Stolitz crowd. Because fuck forbid anybody who works on this show not validate the fandbase's toxic behavior when it comes to shipping, am I right?

It's annoying how Viv and her inner circle will constantly defend Stolitz against criticism, but they'll throw every other character and ship under the bus.

I guarantee you that if you went up to Viv or Brandon at a con and said that you liked a ship or character that they disliked, they would spend the rest of the con side eyeing you.

#Vivziepop Critical #Helluva Boss Critical #Hazbin Hotel Critical #Spindlehorse Critical

[chaifootsteps]

As someone who lives with parents that constantly argue whenever they around with each other, would tremble in fear when they talk normally because of the fear that they will fight again, begging mom to not to come with dad whenever we go outside because they also fight, they don't divorce even though how much my mom wants to divorce; I'm honestly hurt that Octavia was called a slut just because she was "cockblocking" stolitz.

How tf can you call a child with divorced parents a "slut"??????

(sorry if its looks likes a vent)

No apologies needed. It's a horrible place to be in and it's hard to believe that anyone could be involved with the production of not one, but two scenes of Octavia breaking down in tears because her home life is falling apart and joke about her being "a cockblocking slut."

#Anonymous #viv stuff #actual blog post #helluva boss critical #spindlehorse critical

[flower-boi16]

Do you think this fandom can still improve despite everything? Is it Viv and Spindlehorse's fault that this fandom is problematic or there is deeper root cause? Despite the amount of negativity both hh and hb recieved, is it still possible to listen to fans who give constructive criticism and improve both shows? Many fans often say something like"The Spindlehorse's crew don't want to listen to critics because there are too many bad faith criticism and hate" or "Those critics don't have the vision of the creators so their advices are invalid." I think both sides of this fandom are overly aggressive to whatever happened. It must have something behind it.

I think the reason why the fandom reacts so poorly to criticism is a mix of several factors:

These shows are fairly popular, the more popular something is the bigger the fanbase will be. And, likewise, some fans would be very defensive when it comes to criticism.

The batshit insane twitter users and fake outrage being confused with the actual critiques people have of the shows. I'll admit, early critical videos were...not great to say the least (cough cough Pkrussel cough cough), and many of Viv's past controversies are admittedly dumb. However, there are real issues people have with these shows and Vivziepop, however, because of all the past controversies with Viv being over-blown, fans lump these real and valid critiques in with the fake Twitter outrage, causing this confusing mess.

Vivziepop's reaction to critiscm. She directly dismisses critiques people have of her shows and pretty clearly spends a bit too much time on online discourse about her shows. Viv IS aware of the critiques people have of her shows but she has this very immature response to criticism just looking at her twitter, and, this does translate to the fandom as well.

Drama channels such as AyyLmao and Iox constantly defending Viv and her shows. AyyLmao is a fairly big channel and a lot of his videos are about controversies surrounding Viv. Pretty much all of these tend to be heavily biased as AyyLmao instantly takes Viv's side, as in several of his videos he deliberately chooses to lump in the actual critiques of the shows with the deranged Twitter users online, which contributes to the second problem I mentioned above. This can be seen with his hatedom video where he says that most of the criticism at least on Twitter isn't "real criticism" and "just hate disguised on such". Notice how he says that at least on Twitter the criticism is just hate. He's deliberately making it look like the critical community is just a bunch of deranged Twitter users who just hate Viv cuz they are jealous or something, when looking at sites such as Reddit, Youtube, Tumblr, etc you'll see people with ACTUAL PROBLEMS with the shows, by AyyLmao's ignoring that in order paint the critical community as a toxic hell-hole. He pretends to be neutral in the video but he clearly is biased with how he paints the critics here, as he only focuses on this one site just to make it look like the critical community is just an annoying vocal minority on Twitter. and because of that, the fandom views the critical community as just that; just an annoying vocal minority of Twitter users who shouldn't be taken seriously.

The fandom just refusing to engage with people's critiques because they can't handle criticism of their favorite shows. That's pretty obvious.

I don't think the fandom will get better any time soon given these factors I just mentioned. Until Viv learns to accept criticism, until Viv drama channels stop defending her bullshit, and until the fandom actually engages with people's critiques rather than sending death threats...ya no this fandom is still going to be awful.

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel criticism #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism

[bump-inthe-night]

Vivziepop fans claiming adding black features to her black characters would’ve made it “too difficult” to animate them is a hilarious excuse considering this is the same woman who had characters like these animated:

Another excuse fans have been using is that Vivziepop’s art style is “unsuitable” for black characters, despite her crew members proving otherwise: 

No art style is "unsuitable" for black characters because it's the artist's responsibility to learn how to draw them in their style. There's no excuse for black characters not looking black in your style.

Vivziepop could draw black features in her style but CHOSE not to, hence why none of the black characters look black outside their skin color, which sometimes they don't even have.

#anti vivziepop #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #spindlehorse critical

[tocomplainfriend]

SPREAD THIS

Critical argument that went and ask for the experience of people that worked in the shows. How they don't have an actual running Human resources, it's just one guy friends with Viv (Neylan) who gave damn shitty responses to every question. READ IT PLEASE, Pass it around!

(It's a person outside of fandom bubble writting this stuff too)

Full-blown confirmation of the pay discord messages by Neylan

(also Viv has tried to make people not work in other indie stuff too)

This sounds so republican as fuck too:

Gaming company?

#vivziepop critique #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critical #anti spindlehorse

[theoddest1]

Notice how Viv will bitch about a 15 year old fan being critical or a 18 or 19 year old critic who made a harmless meme, or be pissy about "My name is Caine, I am your bitch" but will stay DEAD. FUCKING. SILENT about someone in the fandom ending their own life thanks to the shitty people in her fanbase. So, in other words, people being "mean" to her is more worth her time than calling out those who pushed Shay into suicide.

Not surprising tbh. This is the same person who apparently thought karma was awesome when one of the people she had beef with (Dollcreep) was getting mass hate from her fans and was hospitalized for an attempt on their life just to get out of the massive attacks they were facing.

So yeah...what a kind ass person....

Then there's Tracy

Who actually addressed and tried to bring awareness to bullying in her community.

#vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #anti spindlehorse #vivziepop critique #anti vivziepop #vivienne medrano #viv get a grip #vivziepop #cw sui #cw bullying #lackadaisy #tracy butler

[poisonheiress]

Someone needs to say it: The "Heaven is actually bad" plot line that Hazbin is based around is useless when you spend more then 2 minutes thinking about Vivzie's Hell and her characters.

Besides it being much too early for this idea, the revelation that Heaven or at least the beings running it aren't good people has little to no impact when the people who are being harmed by this are all horrible people. Stay with me here. None of these people are people who were unfairly brought into hell and we are never ever introduced to someone who was either. Why should we care that Heaven is "evil" and blocking redemption when all the sinners in hell we see are the worst of the worst who would have never gotten in even if it was fair.

For the "Heaven is bad" plot line to actually work, you need people who were just one sin away from Heaven, who would've gotten into Heaven if circumstance hadn't forced them down a path that stole it from them. You need characters who aren't comedic villains but land in the middle of morally grey. Those who deserved to be in Heaven but because Heaven refused to consider their circumstances, they were tossed to burn with people much worse than them. Those are the people who should be your main cast cause those are the people who would actually be impacted by Heaven being bad/ Heaven lying.

Angel dust, for all his trauma, was still part of the mafia and likely had killed people before (showing to almost take joy in it). Husk became an overlord and gambled souls, so he had to have had blood on his hands before hell. Alastor is a serial killer, and the list goes on and on. Sure, these characters are (somewhat) interesting, but they don't make for good characters to have when the key plot line is that Heaven is a scam. Even if that fact is true, none of them were ever going to get there in the first place and this is something we also se in every single background sinner shown in Hell too. They were never close to getting there, so why would they or we care that Heaven is bad when all sinners are shown to be horrific people who are at best in the dark grey area of morality.

If you look at it from the "angel's are unfairly killing sinners" route, it still doesn't work. If the angels are killing them, what makes it different then the sinner on sinner violence that hell is full off? Why is them dying by angels this bad thing when they are just as likely if not 10x times more likely to get knifed in the back by other sinners in hell the other 364 days, especially when everyone here apparently is just as horrible as the next person. You cannot condemn the angels for killing demons and then make a joke of out sinners killing each other and never show sinners who doesn't want to kill people. Life either matters or it doesn't and when the main cast doesn't even show a care for life (outside of Charlie's who's entire flaw is her naivety), why should the audience.

On top of that, Vivzie's whole overpopulation aspect and the Heaven plot line would connect better if she actually had people like those I mentioned above, people who stole to survive but got tossed out cause stealing is technically wrong, people who killed another to protect someone else but were still sent to hell because even though they saved that person's life that person wasn't supposed to be saved, people who passively engaged in sins but never really did anything harmful under them. This would add into how Hell is so overpopulated and highlight why its so important that Heaven is evil/ why Charlie's plan isn't just a naive pathetic fever dream.

In the end, Vivzie should have never made Heaven the central plot of this show nor tried to assign this blatant good vs evil to that conflict. Neither her characters nor her writing choices are able to respond to this conflict in a way that will end or even tell the story in a satisfactory manner.

#anti hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critical #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #also I am not just talking out my ass for this #I had/have this same problem in one of my original works #where I had to make the relationship between Heaven and God and cambion a lot more complex then just oh this side bad this side good #and thats what you have to do as a fucking writer is ask the hard question and be ready to scrap characters and ideas to answer them #When you deal with human characters nothing is black vs white and the minute you claim it is #you have failed

[devdirt]

Hazbin Hotel Spoilers!! My thoughts on the VAs, and where I go from here.

I'm only going to say a couple of things about the first episode. The voices are bad.

I think Charlie is the only consistently good one and Alastor does sound better with the voice filter on. I think Niffty is okay, I will always prefer the pilot VA. But...listen.

I don't want to be mean about Blake. I'm sure he's talented. But his delivery as Angel is really, really bad. I don't mean in a "bitch about the show haha" bad, I mean it is just painful to listen to. His delivery is not natural, the accent sounds so forced and the tone is grating. He sounds like he belongs in a cringe fandub, not an official production.

Vaggie sounds incredibly dead. I think Stephanie could really work in this role but it sounds like the voice direction is keeping her from emoting half the time. Her register is too low and too plain to give any kind of meaningful performance. She has done low register characters before and knocked it out of the park so that's why I believe this was a mistake on direction's part. She's talented, let her showcase it.

Husk, it doesn't fit. Keith David is talented as FUCK and his delivery is good! But this was a miscast. The original VA was great because he had that jaded old man sound to him, a disgruntled quality that accompanied his character.

Adam...god shut up. I don't know if it's the fact that his song is paced all weird and the dialogue doesn't flow, or that his dialogue is just GOD AWFUL but I can't listen to this man speak. He sounds like he's overacting on stage in every single line, there is no time to breathe between his sentences.

And my wife Katie Killjoy? It's just fucking Blitz. There is no humor in having her sound like this, and the performance has none of the flair as the original pilot VA. It sounds like when a cartoon gets an obvious celebrity who doesn't fit the show because they just wanted to get that person on for an episode.

So yeah. The songs were mid, the jokes weren't funny, and Angel saying "this body was meant to be exploited" was just...yeah.

I'm sorry to the entire pilot cast, I'm sorry you were all replaced when you ARE these characters. A character is their voice, and you all poured your hearts and souls into your performances to make Viv's creations come to life. I don't think she deserved any of you. This is a disappointment for animation at worst and a bad vanity project at best.

I will not be watching any more full episodes.

#hazbin hotel critical #hazbin critical #vivziepop critical #hazbin spoilers #hazbin hotel spoilers #hazbin hotel overture #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin leaks #hazbin hotel leaks

[uniquepeanutcreatorfire]

Fandom: VIV GETS HATE FOR NO REASON

Reasons: Toxic workplace allegations, not addressed

Appropriating a closed religion that’s been demonized by Hollywood for years (also making a profit off it)

Burning bridges with other artists/friends (one that implied she was abusive)

Going to animal cafes in Japan with abused and neglected animals

Supporting businesses (Starbucks) that are against Palestine then posting on social media

Liking tweets referring to people as sub-human

Liking tweets referring to criticism as hate or defending from valid criticism

Not giving certain physical features to POC/POC-coded characters in their design to indicate they are POC/POC-coded and also using harmful stereotypes

Fandom: SHE GETS HATE FOR NO REASON!!!



#helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #spindlehorse critical #vivziepop criticism #spindlehorse criticism #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique

[showtoonzfan]

Viv was included in a podcast talking about Bojack and Hazbin ect, dropping this in case anyone wants to cover it lol.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical #anti vivziepop #hazbin hotel critical #Youtube

[spooky-donut-ghost-house]

If you ever feel bad about your writing remember this:

You didn't write Hazbin Hotel

#hazbin hotel negativity #hazbin hotel negative #helluva boss negative #helluva boss negativity #spindlehorse negative #spindlehorse negativity #vivziepop negative #vivziepop negativity #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critique #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critique #anti hazbin hotel #anti helluva boss #anti vivziepop #anti spindlehorse

[thowawayuntilfurthernotice]

Meanwhile in reality :

If you honestly believe that Viv wouldn't do everything she could to stop people from working on the first season of Lackadasiy, you're either willfully ignorant, or you're truly unaware of how awful she actually is.

#Vivziepop Critical #Helluva Boss Critical #Hazbin Hotel Critical #SpindleHorse Critical

[chaifootsteps]

Saw the short. Pretty cute. Millie's scant character development still regulated to a side-short, Morgana still a terrible social media manager and person, Viv still took Millie's trans brother and made him cis and called trans men delusional and misgenders trans people she hates on purpose.

#helluva boss critical #spindlehorse critical #vivziepop critical #viv stuff #actual blog post