#also don’t argue about me about the queerbait thing I know he didn’t it’s just a fucking joke

[aesthetic-uni]

Misha Collins is the funniest straight man ever. He’s the only person to arguably queerbait in real life. He had to come out as a straight. He was told by WB to just stay bisexual. He’s living every homophobe’s nightmare scenario but the only difference is that everyone actually loves it for him

#misha collins #also don’t argue about me about the queerbait thing I know he didn’t it’s just a fucking joke #anyway back to the funny #more straight people should honestly be like him #keep ‘em on their toes #or something #I know nothing about this man or supernatural #but I adore him #have y’all seen his feud on Tiktok with icaruspendragon? #btw someone should check on her #but it’s hilarious #I hope he loves the rest of his life by just adding fuel to the fire that is his life

[theenbynightingale]

CLONE HIGH (2023) EP. 8 SPOILERS

Okay, I know I’m opening up myself to a bunch of arguing but like... We need to have a talk. I should preface this by saying I’m not a die hard fan of Clone High. I only caved into watching the original series a few days before the reboot dropped despite hearing about it for years. I think they’re both good but I have my problems with both.

But I wanna talk about Topher Bus, a Christopher Columbus clone in a Gen Z world. He’s kind of taken over the role of Ghandi as Abe’s best friend in the revival, since the creators don’t want to bring him back unless they know they’re gonna be able to make more seasons. He hasn’t had a lot of screen time or development because the abundance of characters in this version. However, him becoming somewhat close with Abe has resulted in some fans shipping them.

So imagine their surprise when Topher tries to blackmail (or white leverage) Abe at the end of the final episode because he is attracted to Joan as well. I’ve seen so many people actually get angry about this. Many found themselves disappointed that Topher wasn’t straight or that he’d do something so terrible to Abe.

To which I say... Why would you expect anything else from this guy?

Topher’s whole thing was that he was an asshole who tried way too hard to convince people he’s progressive or an ally or “woke”, a term he unironically uses. He goes on and on about how he’s looking out for poc and women because he’s just trying to survive in a world that has flat out rejected his clone father.

“But he has a ‘Everyone is Welcome Here’ rainbow flag in his room!” Yeah, he does. He also has a co-exist poster, too. Good for him. Except there’s also a poster that says “Not a paid activist”. It’s a front! That’s the point! 

“But he keeps trying to drill it into everyone’s heads that he’s straight, like a closeted person!” Yes, he does. But it’s not just closeted people who do that. I went to a Catholic school and I also live in the real world. I’ve seen dudes be afraid to drink tea or hug because it might make them look “gay” or “feminine” or whatever bullshit.

“The way he said he liked Joan and white women in general was so exaggerated that he must be forcing himself to say it!” This is Clone High! Everything in this show is so exaggerated. From the very beginning, it’s been a parody of teen satires. It was created by the duo that would go on to make Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, 21 Jump Street and The LEGO Movie. This is their style.

“The episode would have been better if he blackmailed Abe into not confessing to Joan because he had a crush on Abe.” So you’re saying you would have liked the episode more if Topher had gone “Abe, the reason I almost got you molested by a teacher was because I’m in love with you”? I need you to realize how fucked that is.

Topher is a weasly little shit who tries to convince everyone how progressive he is when he’s actually a total asshole. That was the point. Y’all thinking he was in love with Abe or that he had Abe’s best intentions at heart just means that it worked. You took the bait. I’m not saying shipping Tophabe would be immoral (okay maybe after the whole statutory rape thing but that’s just for right now). There’s a solid chance that their friendship could be salvaged after this. I certainly never thought I’d ship Cleo with anyone but know she and Frida are my OTP. But you gotta stop pretending that this character is someone he isn’t.

I might delete this because I’m just trying to get my feelings out. I’m not calling anyone stupid or whiny just because they got upset by the new episodes. (Shoutout to my boy, @warcrimetime​. Sorry they took JoanFK from you so soon). This is just another case of me getting annoyed by people calling queerbait just because a ship didn’t become canon and me getting everything out of my system. (But also, if Joan does see Topher’s blackmail and her reaction is anger at Abe and not “HOLY SHIT YOU WERE MOLESTED?!” then that would actually be legit bad writing).

TL;DR:

Although, maybe I’m just not upset because I got Kahlopatra and you guys lost your OTP and I just don’t understand, I dunno. 

#clone high #abe clone high #topher bus #joan clone high #jfk clone high #cleo clone high #joanfk

[nausikaaa]

Idk if you missed it but Noah Schnapp came out himself as gay and has loudly been talking about how he shares that aspect with Will in canon. Will has been written as gay since s1 pitch, it's mentioned again in s2 script (ending scene), the information is literally out there for you to find. I know it's scary to trust a show again with it's rep after decades of queer baiting, I really do, but the writers aren't gonna back pedal on Will's sexuality anymore after s4, everyone involved with the show would get so much flack for it since it's been talked about by actors over and over again. But it remains to be seen how they decide to wrap up Will's story, will he get a happy ending. But him being gay is unarguably canon text.

okay, this seems like a good place to sum up my thoughts and then i won’t be engaging with this debacle any more.

so first of all i know Noah Schnapp is gay, and i’m super happy for him coming out, but i don’t think a gay actor necessarily means the character they are playing is gay, especially since Noah was cast when he was pretty young, and may not have known yet. maybe he did, maybe not. i don’t know. but it’s kind of insulting to his acting ability to imply he can’t play a character who feels and identifies a different way to him. acting is all about embodying a different person.

if he and the Duffer Brothers are discussing Will being gay in interviews and putting it in the scripts that’s also a good sign, but i don’t take interviews to be canon. to me, that’s word of god, and doesn’t count as the text of the show. my measure for whether or not something counts as visible queer rep is basically, could someone go in this show with no knowledge of who the actors or writers are, having never seen an interview or article about or, and still see that it’s gay? maybe you would argue they could through the subtext already present, but i literally watched this with my sister and she didn’t pick up on it, so not everyone can.

also, old scripts can be changed. apparently the Duffer Brothers already want to go back through previous seasons and re-record small bits of dialogue to change mistakes they made later, like changing Will’s birthday in season 2 after they forgot to acknowledge it in season 4. if those scripts were released any time after season 4 came out, i don’t trust them to be the originals one bit.

to everyone commenting and messaging saying “what, does he need to kiss a boy? does he need to say “i’m gay?” i’m so tired of coming out stories!” i get it, i do, i’m pretty over them too. but without any kind of confirmation, straight people, even ones not outwardly homophobic, can and will ignore it. i’m not asking for a coming our scene or big sweeping make out scene. but give us something. don’t you want him to come out to his mom, or his friends, or to hold hands or kiss a boy? he’s already cried, this argument is backing itself into a corner that makes it sound like you just don’t want to see happy queer experiences, you’re fine with Will being gay and miserable.

overall would love for Will to be confirmed as gay. but as you acknowledged in your message, i’ve been burned before. queerbaiting is still fairly common, and from what i’ve seen Stranger Things doesn’t have the best track record of keeping promises. did it they say before season 4 that that would be the season to explore why Will was the one originally taken to the Upside Down? i didn’t see that. and i’ve been many more people say things they thought for sure were gonna happen due to foreshadowing or interviews weren’t fulfilled.

so i, one individual who isn’t even that involved in the fandom, have decided to hold my breath. and i made one spur of the moment comment on a post that somehow snowballed into like 5 people bugging me about this for 12 hours straight. coming onto my posts and my inbox to explain subtext to me like i’m a kid. i’mm not new to this, trust me, that’s why i’m so jaded.

i know i’ll probably be ignored but can the people who have been non stop commenting at me please not go into the comments of this post trying to reignite the debate? i’m done. this is all i want to say. if you do, quite frankly that will just show me that you don’t respect my wishes, and maybe even didn’t read this post in it’s entirety, and i will just block you without reading your comment.

but if you did read all this, thanks for your time. you don’t have to agree with me, but you can clinic away and leave me with my opinions in peace. you can even wish that i’ll be proven wrong by season 5, because i would actually love to be. i’m just not holding my breath.

[miramimar]

genuinely asking, do you think the whole byler thing is queerbaiting and what do you think about the robin/will parallel where they watch their crush kiss someone of the opposite gender while they just stay here. also thoughts on the show and these seasons in general?

hi! this is kinda long so sorry but here we go

hmmm. no i dont think it’s queerbaiting because will IS gay, like…no question, but also the duffer brothers did say his sexuality was going to be acknowledged, and…i mean, it kinda was? i would argue it was more hinted at than acknowledged, and it was obvious mike wasn’t going to be gay or bi so no, i dont think it was queerbaiting, it’s very clear they’re building something up with will’s storyline for s5. BUT cmon…let’s be serious, you’ve been hinting at will’s sexuality since s1, you’ve had your time…obviously no one is expecting him to come out to the whole town, but that scene with jonathan was a perfect opportunity to have will say something (especially because it was very obvious that jonathan knows, like be serious 😭) like…will isnt going to be out immediately OBVIOUSLY, why would he? he has been called slurs since he was a kid. BUT CMON, just have him say something to jonathan and that would be enough! you dont even have to say the g word 😭 hiding the fact he’s gay in subtext is just stupid because like i said, people are dumb! im still seeing people say will is not gay and people are pushing it, not everyone is smart enough to understand subtext! 😭 but like i said…theyre clearly setting up a storyline for him in s5 (his final speech about vecna and that last scene is giving me hopes) so yeah! i really dont think it’s queerbaiting.

about those parallel scenes…my god…robin’s was unnecessary because if vickie was going to break up with that guy anyways why add it there lol? it’s just dumb, and will’s…why 😭 that was so awkward…i have no genuine thoughts about his scene…i’m just…woah LMAO it was stupid.

thoughts about the show. hmmm. i very much have a love hate relationship with this show because the writing so far has been a let down. i liked v1 better than v2, but i still don’t see a reason for the season to be split in two? ALSO the russia plot was dumb and useless, a waste of time! anyways, s2 and s1 are still the best seasons, i don’t think s3 is bad at all, but idk, i feel like the reason people say s3 was bad is because it feels like they’re dragging it…but i don’t think they are? like yes, some scenes are unnecessary, but plot wise? hm no i don’t think they’re dragging it. there’s still many questions left unanswered and i fear if they were just answered quickly or earlier, it wouldn’t be as impactful so…i get it, but my god, it’s very obvious they didn’t know what to do in the middle! like idk, the show’s a mess but also…not a bad mess. it’s complicated. like i can’t have serious thoughts about the show until i see it COMPLETE. because thats what it feels like, incomplete, especially s4, and i get why it feels like that, they said it themselves, it’s the beginning of the end! as a set up…i think it’s good, but i don’t know what they’re setting up in the first place so like. 😭 and also, it’s no wonder why everyone feels tired watching this show because it feels so damn incomplete every season, it’s exhausting! but hopefully it comes to an end soon. Those are my overall thoughts on the show. All of s4 and all of its plots just feel like a set up! which yes, it’s annoying. but it gives me hope for s5.

#st4 spoilers #asks

[rebel-in-white]

Sam Wilson’s Feelings Towards Bucky Barnes

In this meta, I’m arguing that Sam Wilson, as he is portrayed in the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, has romantic feelings for Bucky Barnes. Before you think I’m overreaching and reading too much into this show, read on and think about the evidence I’m going to present. Could a simple friendship explain the differences in Sam’s interactions with other characters versus his interactions with Bucky?

Disclaimer: I’m not saying that Disney is going to show us a homosexual couple. Honestly, I don’t think that’s going to happen. I’m not accusing anyone of queerbaiting either. I don’t want to enter into that argument. I just believe that Sam Wilson is a man in love with another man. 

Sam’s Demeanor with Bucky:

In episode 1, we have a delightful scene between Sam and Torres, who seems to genuinely admire Sam. After taking a video of Sam speaking Arabic, the impressed Torres makes a few light comments. Sam responds with a smile but maintains a serious demeanor and cracks minimal jokes. He doesn’t relax or drop his guard. Compare that to his drastic change in attitude in episode 2. After only spending 3 minutes with Bucky, he’s talking about wizards and sorcerers and something about hats. 

And he’s always joking around with Bucky. He doesn’t let himself do that with other characters on the show, not even his own sister. This shows that with Bucky, Sam feels like he can relax more. For some reason, he feels safe with Bucky to show his true self.

Sam checks on him, constantly

In episode 1, we find out that Sam has texted Bucky post blip several times. Enough times that Bucky’s therapist, Dr. Raynor, uses that to gauge how well Bucky is connecting with other people. She admonishes him for ignoring Sam’s texts. In episode 3, we find out that Sam hasn’t given Sharon the same treatment. He hasn’t texted or called her, despite the fact that she had placed her career on the line for him, Steve, and Bucky. His only concern was Bucky and to see how he was doing.

Not only did he text Bucky, but Sam is periodically checking on his state of mind and well being, showing genuine concern and care. 

“You good?” 

“What’s going on in that Cyborg brain of yours?” 

Again, we don’t see him check on other characters like this. Bucky gets special treatment.

Sam lets Bucky do what he wants

The keyword here is lets. Sam lets Bucky do whatever the f*ck he wants to do because he’s weak in the face of Bucky’s desires and demands. Sam can be very stubborn, he’s just subtle with it. In the show, he refuses to give up on the boat, refuses to give into his sister’s demands, and tries to think of solutions for this problem. That bank scene not only hints at the consequences of the blip and other social issues, but it highlights Sam’s intelligence and determination. When he wants something, he will work hard to get it. That’s why he survived so long as Steve’s partner-in-crime when they were on the run. And he still hasn’t given up on the boat.

Yet, we see this intelligent, stubborn man cave into Bucky over and over again. First, Bucky wants to come with him on the mission in episode 2. Sam says no, but Bucky is sitting with him on the plane in the next scene. If Sam truly didn’t want Bucky to come, he wouldn’t have let him come. He isn’t a pushover- he gave up Steve’s shield because he couldn’t stand the idea of being the new Captain America. Some other examples: Sam lets Bucky go in to see Zemo alone and goes along with his plan to use Zemo’s connections to find out more about the super-soldier serum.

Sam keeps touching Bucky’s metal arm

He’s touched Bucky’s metal arm a total of three times. The first time, after rolling in the flowers, he lets his hand rest on it. This is almost a comforting gesture, one that is entirely unnecessary, but the camera lingers on the touch for a few seconds. Next, in the therapy scene, he pointedly slaps Bucky’s vibranium arm. In episode 3, Sam protectively grabs Bucky when he sees that the danger has increased in the bar. The touch helps snap Bucky out of his Winter Soldier mode. 

This shows a fascination with what makes Bucky different and dangerous, which could be the type of people Sam’s attracted to sexually. Let’s not forget that Sam had expressed physical attraction towards Black Widow, who is the embodiment of sensuality and danger. Sam Wilson has a type, and Bucky fits it.

Sam calls Bucky “Buck”

 It’s the nickname Steve had for Bucky, and it’s interesting that Sam seems a little bothered when Bucky says he couldn’t use it.

“Why not? It’s what Steve called you?”

“Steve knew me longer. And Steve had a plan.”

Sam rolls his shoulders, a gesture of discomfort. He says, “I have a plan.” Almost like he wanted to say, now, can I call you “Buck,” too? It’s also very illuminating to hear this nickname when Sam’s afraid for Bucky’s life in episode 3:

[Gunshots]

“Buck!” Sam yells.

The nickname shows a deeper level of intimacy between Sam and Bucky, something that Sam wants. That’s why he uses it, remarks on Steve having used it, and continues to use it. 

Sam lets himself argue with Bucky

Again, the keyword here is lets. Sam is a very controlled person. I’ve read numerous posts about all the things that Sam has to deal with - blip, institutionalized racism, Captain America’s mantle, that mantle being given to a lesser suited individual, losing his boat, losing his friends, and losing the connection with his family. Yet, Sam holds himself together very well. He doesn’t break dangerous criminals out of prison (looking at you Bucky), and he tries to follow his values in a world that is making less and less sense to him. 

Yet, with Bucky Barnes, he allows himself the freedom to argue with him. They argue in episode 2 numerous times, but I’m going to focus on the argument in episode 3. I loved that random back-and-forth in the middle of a fight scene. I cannot picture Sam doing something like that with Steve, and he definitely wouldn’t argue like that with anyone else. With Bucky, we see Sam let his guard down to bicker and voice his immediate feelings and thoughts. We don’t see this happen with anyone else! He’s usually more guarded with his true thoughts and emotions.

What does Bucky feel?

Unfortunately, I don’t see clear evidence that Bucky reciprocates his feelings. There’s evidence that some feelings are forming (I have high hopes for the pulling Sam’s hand closer to his chest scene!), and the genuine bond is there. As of now, Sam’s feelings run deeper. It’s understandable because Bucky is a man in transition. He doesn’t know who he is, and we can see that struggle in some small details here and there: for example, when Sam wedges his thigh between his in the therapy scene, Bucky places his hands over his crotch in an insecure position. Sam, on the other hand, is relaxed and secure in his identity. Bucky is still struggling to adjust to the modern world when he’s a 1940s man at heart. Plus, there’s Steve. According to Sharon, Bucky was “Mr. America” (LOL). He needs more time to solidify himself and his feelings.

Where did these feelings come from?

Sexual attraction (sexy and dangerous is Sam’s type)

Bucky is probably the only person in his life who makes sense. Everything else is so different and difficult.

He was Steve’s close friend, and Sam loved and respected Steve.

Bucky ignites his protective instincts. Bucky emphasizes this when he says that Sam gave up so much for him. (Interesting that Bucky doesn’t mention Steve, who wanted to save his best friend and helped to convince his current friend to help him do that.)

Perhaps, Bucky reminds him of Riley (would love to see a Riley flashback)

He feels a connection to the loneliness he sees in Bucky. Despite the people in his life and his natural charisma, Sam strikes me as a solitary figure.

Ultimately, we still know very little about Sam and Bucky, and we have three episodes left of the show, so many things can change! Hopefully, the change will be good for this ship.

I hope you enjoyed this meta. Thank you for reading!

#sambucky #samandbucky #bucky barnes #sam wilson #tfatws #the falcon and the winter soldier #meta #essay #the falcon and the winter soldier meta

[shit-scfandom-did]

so i have a few questions

1)i cannot understand how you ship k*ramel. their relationship was FILLED with toxicity. from mon-el failing over and over again to listen to what kara had to say to him basically telling her to give up being kara danvers. convincing her that "being supergirl and having you is enough” was absolutely horrible. karamel had their moments but overall it was toxic. then in s3 mon el was married and the whole point of season 3 was allowing them to move on. accepting the toxicity from s2 and pushing past that romanticized time. mon el was a better person by 3b but he was still married. even if mon el and imra did break up in the finale there’s no future for karamel. even during 5x13 kara went to ask on advice about lena. and when winn came to visit from the future not a word about him. she’s moved on and it just wouldn’t make sense for kara to end up with him.

2) how can you hate lena so so so much?? it’s been said over and over again that all she’s ever wanted to do is good. though she’s designed to be this morally grey character. she has FLAWS but that’s what makes her so good. she’s a victim of abuse and you can see her struggle with that especially in seasons 4 and 5. in 5 she definitely goes down a questionable path but how can you expect her not too? after being emotionally abused by her brother, betrayed by her family, andrea (this did happen before kara), and then eve. finding out that kara and EVERYONE she loves has betrayed her as well. I mean how could you not go mad?? and even when she “went mad” she was trying to rid humanity of PAIN. something she later realized was a necessary part of life. her hurt blinded her from reality and lex’s manipulation pushed her down further. she’s been hurt and broken so many times and while that’s not an excuse for what she’s done you have no sympathy for her and that I find appalling. lena has realized what she’s done is wrong, that she’s made mistakes, what she did to kara, and she will have to live with that isn’t that punishment enough? she’s apologized and is trying to make up for everything she’s done by saving the world (again). your unnecessary hate towards her infuriates me. cant you take a step back and see the whole picture?

3) why DONT you ship supercorp or accept the queerbaiting? (watch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C2w2GBXd_Pg) They are the core relationship of the show while the danvers sisters are the heart. they’ve gone through so so much together and practically dated in early season 2. they love each other it’s just oh so apparent. i like to believe one of the reasons lena reacted so strongly in s5 is because she was in love with kara and she couldn’t handle the person she was in love with lying to her. and kara flew around the world to get lena’s favorite food!! if that’s not romantic idk what is. I feel like you’ve developed such a clouded view of supercorp that you need to take a step back and understand what lena is the love of kara’s life.

wow what a long message. im not here to hate. im here to inform & undertand. i get it. karamel had their moments and even MY perception of them might be a little cloudy. im not going to hate you for liking them. hell I even shipped them for a little! my brother thinks 3b mon el and kara would’ve been perfect but he understands that supercorp is just where the show is leading and he wants them to be endgame. but what I will hate is your hate. what’s the point of all this? this thread, this account is going to do NOTHING. so why bother? I debated sending this and I hope I’m not too harsh at times but I really wanna see what you say. I hope you can open your eyes to lena and supercorp. maybe even become a supercorp shipper yourself!

- thanks and supercorp endgame 💙❤️

First of all, if you want to discuss ships in the future send this type of anons to facepalming-since-chernobyl, this blog is not for this, but for gathering receipts.

1.I just ship it, I don’t get why you have to understand it. It’s shipping. But if you insist:

No, it was not filled with toxicity. Count me when he failed to listen to her when they were in a relationship. Secondly, he is not a dog, he has his brain, he is his own person. People don’t always do what others asked them to do. It’s not slavery.

He has NEVER said to her to give up being Kara Danvers. How did he exactly convince her? How can you read the scene that he convinced her that being supergirl and having him is erasing Kara Danvers? In this scene he supports anything SHE WANTS to do. Also, Kara Danvers doesn’t equal Kara being a reporter in CatCo. On that moment she had her blog. She change people’s live with it like a real reporter. She took the risk and met consequences of her actions aka being fired by Snapper. Also, remind me who told her to create a blog? With your logic Lena was erasing Kara Danvers too.

Friendly reminder that he was forced to the marriage to keep peace. Also, friendly reminder Imra and the Legion out him in this situation without telling him about her plans. She and Brainiac put him there, knowing exactly how much he loved Kara and how much she meant to him. Imra knew that, that’s why she asked him to stay and solve his feelings. She said if he had come back, she would have known he had no doubts. But he wanted to stay, that’s why they broke up. He came back because once again he sacrificed himself for the greater good, like a real hero. Maybe watch the Argo eps because they clearly show that no, it was no about moving on.

It was not accepting about so called toxicity. First of all, she already forgave him that he lied. Secondly, all of she was screaming in that scene, when she was infected with M’rynn’s powers, happened before they got together and it was already approached in the musical ep. Aka, this scene had no point.

There is no future for karamel because you say so?

Kara went to asked him, because she truly believed and trusted him and his judgment. And yes, she asked about Lena and what did he said? That Kara deserved the same compassion she gives others, something Lena never gave her. And sorry, I know all scs scream the 100 ep was about sc, but it was about Kara fully realizing she is not responsible for Lena’s horrible choices. That’s it. And friendly reminder she called her a villain in the last scene. Also, the ep showed than no matter what, Lena always ends screwing something, because she has too big ego, always knows better, doesn’t stand criticism and doesn’t trust anyone.

It doesn’t make sense for you. Suit yourself.

2.Her fans made me hate her :) Thanks to them and how they excuse her every horrible action, how they treat her as a victim, while she abuse everyone etc. I started to watch her more carefully. And well, she is a horrible, white, privileged capitalist, who plays god, judge, jury, has mommy issues and acts like typical Luthor while crying she is not one, while still using Luthors money and resources.

Yeah, many people want to make good and end doing evil things. Common people pay for their sins, she has never. Since allowing hostile Daxamite army to invade the Earth (also, her portal affected the other aliens who destroyed the NC), producing a device that could recofnize aliens without their consent (and it was used by Children of Liberty,)producing and lying about Kryptonite, trying to make people superpowered without any supervision, killing Adam during illegal experiment, supporting openly alienphobic president and in a way Agent Liberty, killing Lex and then blaming Kara and finally manipulating Kara for months, lying, gaslighting, yelling, making her steal Lex journal, trying to lobotomize her and tortured with kryptonite, hurting every way possible, physically and mentally. Working with mass murderer, enslaving 3 people (kidnapping Eve, without her consent putting AI into her mind, basically RAPING her brain and making her a puppet in her own body; enslaving end experimenting on Malefic and Russel – threatening to kill him to steal Andrea’s necklace) – none of it are flaws. It was horrible abuse and violating every human right and the fact some people excuse it is disgusting.

First of all, being victim of abuse doesn’t give you the rights to HURT other people. The fact I have to explain pains me. Secondly, what abuse exactly? Lillian didn’t love her? Lex kidnapped her? Said he was going to kill her? You know what? Winn HAD HORRIBLE past and he didn’t turn into a murderer. Mon-El was abused by his mother and never tortured Kara with Kryptonite. J’onn killed a lot of white martians but last time I checked he doesn’t feel good about it. Also, never said the things he has done were GOOD. See a difference?

Yeah, and all of it, still doesn’t give her the rights to torture people. Also, friendly reminder she lied to Supergirl about Kryptonite in s3, much before the whole drama. Remember how she destroyed the life of a girl that stole boyfriend in middle school? It clearly shows she always had THAT in her. Plus, sorry not sorry, if she wanted different life, outside her family she could have easily done that. She was in Star City, with Jack, doing her researches, making her career. And she threw it all away, because she WANTED to be a Luthor.

Plus, sorry not sorry, if you feel betrayed and hurt because your friend didn’t tell you something she didn’t OWE you, you go to therapy, not trying to lobotomize entire planet.

Mate, she wanted to lobotomizer entire humanity, without ANYONE’S consent, because SHE, one single Lena, felt hurt. This is playing a GOD. Nothing explains it.

Planning a cold ass revenge for months is not being blinded by feelings.

Once again, even if could argue about how many times she was broken, most of that was a white privileged life she chose herself but whatever, it still doesn’t excuse her. All of she has done should meet consequences. Paying for shit you have done, accepting it, fully realizing what you have done is a part of redemption. Still in s5 she didn’t even apologize to Kara. Because she still didn’t understand what she has done and doesn’t feel sorry about it.

Feel appalled as much as you want, because I’m not going to feel sorry for a white, privileged woman who has never paid for her actions and is basically a living avatar of the worst Karen you can imagine.

She realized Lex was using her horrible experiments (remember? She experimented on puppies too) to his own agenda, that’s why she went to Kara. That’s not grasping a thing. Mhm, if you call that an apology then suit yourself. She is not saving the world, she is helping once again other people fixing the shit she created.

Feel infuriated as much as you want, because I don’t care? Especially when it comes from a person who tells others to take a step back while being totally narrow minded about Mon-El and karamel.

3.Because actors, prodcuers, writers call SC a female friendship. Mel did that in her last interview. See whatever you want but maybe stop forcing people to ship a horribly abusive ship.

Well… no. Kara is the heart and soul of the Supergirl. Alex is her most important relationship. Lena is an important friend, who doesn’t deserve it yet, but we all know Kara is the Paragon of Hope so of course she is going to forgive her.

I know you people think sc dated because they breathed in one room, but in s2 Kara dated, had sex, kissed, cuddled and enjoyed her time with Mon-El.

Yeah, they love each other as friends. It was said more than once.

That’s your delusion, you are free to do it.

Kara done that to Alex too, so you are saying she is romantically in love with her sister or something? If bringing people food is romantic and damn, most of the people I know loves me, god.

No, lena is not Kara’s love of her life.

Cool, you are not going to hate me because I ship karamel, I’m touched.

Sorry that you are going to be super disappointed in the end of the show I guess.

You will hate my hate – what’s the point of it?

Once again, because I don’t think you understand the point of this blog or read the description – it’s gathering receipts of assholes who cross tag and hate on the actors. Maybe go and search #gross hate or #cast hate on this blog so you can see how amazing your fandom is. Have fun.

I would rather eat my own shit than starting shipping the victim of abuse with her abuser.

Thanks and no :)

#anons

[idontmakelaugh]

With all due respect Marvel, what the fuck are you doing

Look, I’m sick and I have a lot to say about the hints at bisexual Bucky and the way this links to the way Marvel decided to reduce the Stevebucky screen time. I don’t know if it makes sense, but I just wanted to write this somewhere.

Tl;dr: I want Bucky to be canonically bisexual with all my heart, I just want to complain since Marvel went full no homo with Stevebucky 

What prompted all of this is that I’ve just watched this interview. I think at this point we’ve all seen this article and Malcom Spellman’s answer (also, the interviewer is my hero because I couldn’t believe someone actually had the guts to ask about the tigers), but still

“I’m not diving down rabbit holes, but just keep watching...”

these can’t be the words of a man who’s queerbaiting, also because he explicitly told the interviewer this is spoiler territory. If something it’s a spoiler, it means it’s going to get addressed in one way or another. I know that maybe he wanted to say that they’re going to give him a super straight storyline later in the show, but I think if that’s was the case he would have answered like the Russos did (basically “yeah I support the fans but I’m not gonna make anything explicit”). 

Plus, he mentioned the writing room having members of the LGBT community in it, and even if he isn’t part of it or the other writers can’t take responsibility for what he says, I can’t believe he hasn’t some degree of knowledge about queerbaiting or the kind of implications the whole tigers thing has. 

Now, if I had to watch Steve getting random love interests just to remind the audience he is absolutely hetero (I love Sharon and Peggy, but even if you ship Steve with them you have to admit the way they used them as love interests in Civil War and Endgame was terrible), while he wasn’t even allowed to have a reunion with Bucky in Endgame, presumably because Marvel didn’t like the way the audience reacted to the Stevebucky ship, why are they making Bucky bisexual now? Do they have any idea of the implications it would have?

(( Yes, I believe that what caused the writers not to acknowledge Steve and Bucky’s relationship in Endgame (not in a ‘make it canon’ way, in a ‘hey maybe not having Steve mourning his best friend and not giving them any kind of reunion on screen is bad writing’ way) was the way the ship was covered by popular media: it’s a thing that big companies do, James McAvoy even admitted Fox did the same thing in the last two X-Men movies because of the way Cherik as a ship was received. ))

Is it fine now because this is not a movie but a TV show, so they don’t expect it to have the same resonance? Is it because they are fine with people shipping Sam and Bucky, but not Bucky and Steve, since Captain America is probably the most famous hero of the MCU along with Iron Man? So as long as “minor” characters are involved in a m/m ship it’s fine?

You could argue that if Bucky is made bisexual now, there’s no risk people will ship him with Steve since the man has become Joe Biden, and maybe it would have been fine if the show didn’t mention the consequences of Steve leaving Bucky in the present (like I honestly thought it would), but we’ve seen episode 2. We’ve seen Bucky breaking down because it was Steve who made him believe he was “worth all of this” and now that Steve is gone, he’s not so sure anymore. The implications that line has are BIG, no matter if you ship them or not. 

Also, there’s the matter of Sebastian’s old instagram story. Yep, this one

I still think about this a lot because it just doesn’t make sense. Look, I think neither him nor Chris Evans liked the ending because of stuff they said when talking about it and their body language while doing so (maybe something I’ll talk about more in depth one day), but posting this is on another level. That man has a contract, a serious one, he can’t just go around saying he doesn’t like what Marvel does. 

If you consider this and the fact that at the time he was filming the show, I’m afraid he was allowed to post that because the show is going to mention this matter more than it already did. But seriously, putting a bisexual Bucky in the show with a mention of Steve leaving him is going to break the internet. And don’t get me even started on the queerbaiting they’re doing with Sam and Bucky and the implications that would have (I think it’s a “light” one so far, but still).

I’m not saying that it’s bad writing making him bisexual now and not previously, I just want to know why now it’s fine while in the previous movies their screentime together was cut to the bare minimum. 

#incoherent thoughts #stevebucky #bucky barnes #stucky #tfatws spoilers #mcu #anti endgame

[sherokutakari]

Things I don't like about Slyki:

It feels rushed

I think Loki and Sylvie work better as siblings with the way they act, both combativly and friendly

Saying they're bi but still giving them a romance the hets could overlook bc it "passes" annoys me (and before anyone screams biphobia, I'm happy to break down my feeling about this in a similar context of why sexy clothes can be liberating for irl people, but still sexist as hell and not empowering at all in fiction bc it's still a writer's choice to portray them that way,)

Loki's arc is supposed to be about learning to love himself and grow, not learning to love an iteration of himself from another timeline and still not learn things about himself bc of it

The actors' chemistry is just straight up not there for me in a romantic sense. The Lemantis scene literally made me go "oh god please don't. Okay thank you yes comfort without romance, thank u bbs." and Loki's thing right before he was pruned didn't feel genuine. Whether bc it was a trick or just, again, a chemistry thing, idk, but it felt very Not Good to me.

Not 100% a Lokius shipper (why does everything HAVE to have romance?) but the way Loki and Mobius play off each other feels more flirty and like it could go somewhere than Loki and Sylvie

Again: Why does everything have to have romance???

Reasons I will still absolutely fight you if you try and say Sylki is a "bad ship":

"It's incest!" Literally how. They are the same person from entirely different timelines, and entirely different individuals bc of it. Like that's the whole point. Look me in the eyes and tell me Croki is also the same person and therefore "basically siblings." Also I know y'all still shipping Thorki. Y'all ain't slick. (And I'd argue that's not incest either but I digress,)

"It's selfcest!!" ... yeah? Why is that bad? Go read some opinions about Loki x Jotun Loki that have been floating around since 2011 and get back to me. That's like a Whole Thing. Plus Idek why selfcest would be bad bc it hurts literally no one, but go off I guess

"It's queerbaiting!!" Look okay I get it, and as said above, I'm not a fan of how they're handling Loki's queerness bc the ship is total Het Comfort Food, but a bi person being in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender does not suddenly make them straight. Also Loki is canon genderqueer, even in the MCU now. His relationships can't be anything BUT queer. Die mad about it.

"It's not gay like in thought it was gonna be, so it's bad!!!" ?????¿¿? Get over yourself??? I'm a little disappointed too, but how about we don't fetishize queer/mlm relationships so much, hmm? Take a deep breath and go outside for half an hour. Let a bee land on you. Bc guess what. Even if it was Lokius/Loki² with another male presenting Loki, it wouldn't be a "gay" ship any more than Sylki is "straight" . The boi isn't cishet.

Anyway I have a lot of feelings about this ship (that I don't even like??) and I love Sylvie so fucking fight me

#Loki #Sylvie #Lokie Laufeyson #Sylvie Laufeydottir #Loki 2021 #this is very rambly #and somehow i am on both sides of the 'he's bi regardless of partner' fence #depending on context and intent #but people being assholes over fictional characters #and sending horrible messages to the cast and crew #boutsta catch these hands #Shut up Christi #anyway Im at work bye #Spoilers #Loki Spoilers #requested tag: #anti-sylki

[erin-hollow]

Since I’ve seen Let There Be Carnage already and many people here haven’t, someone told me to write what I thought of it. This will be mostly spoiler-free.

First of all, content warning for the movie: 

physical abuse, verbal abuse (domestic) and some mentions of abuse (parental and domestic), 

a spider, a chicken, and several humans are killed on screen,

violence, blood, and eating people typical of the first movie, 

loud noises, 

flashing, 

something that could be seen as a suicide attempt, 

needles (but no hospitals), 

prisons, (and someone getting locked up just for being different)

kidnapping,

domestic fights,

guns, 

major eye horror, 

something that might trigger emetophobia,

A police officer shoots a black woman (and he’s present throughout the movie)

People (mostly gay men) getting possessed and their minds being taken over without their consent

(spoilers for this one) a black woman is mistreated then is killed

If anyone thinks of others I forgot please tell me.

Now for my thoughts on the movie. This is a very biased review because Venom is one of my special interests. I loved so much of this movie. Carnage’s design was terrifying beyond belief, many of the characters were excellent, and all the acting was great. 

The animation looked really cool. There are scenes where it’s almost impossible to believe that Venom’s floaty head isn’t really there. Tom Hardy has the same great performance from the first movie, and does an excellent job being two characters. The light shining off Venom’s body is beautiful, and occasionally Carnage looks real enough to touch. There’s even a short scene where 2D animation is overlaid over everything else, and the artstyle of it is really cute and creepy at the same time. I will say some scenes are a little dark and hard to see, but... look I’m assuming you’ve seen the trailers. You know how the movie looks. I liked it.

Despite what I’ve heard other people say, the humor wasn’t a big part of the movie for me. That’s not to say it was bad, but it didn’t factor into my enjoyment as much as the other things. The critics are right that it broke the mood of some of the scenes, but I didn’t really mind. Venom has a lot of great little one-liners and insults. He’s by far the most comedic character. Eddie and Dan have a few lines each, and Red has one joke. I thought most of it was really funny.

Carnage was so scary and uncanny that it took a lot of willpower for me not to scream in the theater. In full form he’s just a disgusting red version of Venom, but any time Cletus is mostly human but has some Carnage attributes it’s incredibly unsettling. If you’re a fan of horror, you’ll probably enjoy this movie just for that.

One thing I didn’t like was the queercoding aspect. The coding that they did probably counts as queerbaiting, and the metaphor they use is (in my opinion) homophobic. There is no arguing that the movie is very gay, but they way they went about it rubbed me the wrong way. The movie codes Venom being an alien as him being gay, which wouldn’t be that bad except for the fact that the “alien” traits that they focus on are him killing and eating humans (as in, the fact that he’s not allowed to eat people is the same as discrimination against gay people). The metaphor is also very mixed, especially where Eddie is involved. There’s even a scene where a female character successfully seduces the symbiote. I did enjoy the queer coding, but when it was like that I hated it and *in my opinion* I don’t think it’s something we should be thanking the director about. It’s 2021. Do better.

Carnage and Shriek’s relationship was really cool. For one subplot of a short movie, they managed to a lot with it. The writing of it wasn’t perfect, and Cletus sometimes seems a little inconsistent in this aspect of his character. I have no idea how comic-accurate it is, but I got the vibe very easily without reading the comics.

I’m not the biggest action movie guy, but I could watch that fight scene between Venom and Carnage a million times. It’s so interesting, with so many fun little moments. In my opinion it’s a million times better than the scene between Riot and Venom for several reasons. First, it seemed like the setting was made to serve the fight instead of the first movie where they were just stabbing each other on the launchpad. In LTBC, the setting both serves the actual mechanics of the fight and the aesthetics. Second, the characters have a dynamic, even before the fight. In the first movie Drake and Eddie interact maybe twice, and Riot and Venom’s relationship was never specified beyond them knowing each other. I won’t get into it too much, but here there is a very interesting relationship between Eddie and Cletus, and between Venom and Red, which factors into the fight. This might be a small spoiler, but in LTBC it’s not just the symbiotic pairs fighting each other, instead both sides have people to back them up.

Characterization is a hard thing to talk about without spoilers, but I’ll try. I don’t think any characters from the first movie have been taken out of character. Venom’s street smarts are incredibly inconsistent. Cletus isn’t for everyone but I there are definitely people who will enjoy him. One of Red’s motivations is kind of stupid. Shriek isn’t as active as I would have liked, in fact I strongly disliked what they did with her. If you liked Anne, Dan, and Ms. Chen in the first movie, you’ll like them here.

Overall, I did thoroughly enjoy the movie. It was well worth what I paid for the tickets and I assure you, if you liked the first movie you’ll like this one. Happy watching :)

The end credits scene. This is a SPOILER ALERT, but you’re probably gonna hear about it anyway. I’m still putting it under the cut.

They got teleported to the MCU for some reason that will probably be explained in the next MCU movie. Opinions will vary on this but for me personally I’m pissed off! They left all their friends behind in their own universe, sacrificed one of the things that makes this series so unique (Venom without Spiderman) and broke the MCU’s rules about no multiverses! And for what? to boost ratings? Because The Mouse wanted my favorite gay slimeball? Are they gonna put him on Disney+? Jail for Disney! Jail for Disney for 1000 years!

#venom let there be carnage #venom 2 #movie review #eddie brock #cletus kasady #carnage symbiote #venom: let there be carnage #tom hardy #venom movies #venom

[mcmactictac]

is jjpope canon

Alright Katie you want jjpope analysis thats what you get

Disclaimer, I have NOT watched season two of outer banks yet. I did watch season one fairly recently but all of this will only be based on season one. This is also not a show I am as passionate about so my thoughts and feelings on the characters are all down for discussion. So let’s gather some thoughts here.

I would start by saying that JJ and Pope are not a queerbait. They may have good chemistry but they clearly were not made to be shipped. The target audience for outer banks was more towards straight people, and they really didn’t need a queerbait in there to gain a larger audience.

That being said it doesn’t mean they don’t have some good chemistry. This is one of those ships where I could argue “close male friends” and “potential boyfriends” are both valid opinions. Keep in mind I’m basing this purely on season one.

Did I LIKE Pope and Kie? No. Not at all. It felt way too forced and honestly that relationship pushes me further into believing Pope is not straight. They had no real chemistry, he had no reasoning behind liking her and it just felt like it was there for convenience. It also takes away from Kie’s character. And the thing is they can write good relationships? I really didn’t mind John B and Sarah Cameron, they were engaging and interesting enough that I was invested in them at least on some level. Pope and Kie just. Makes both of their characters look bad.

That’s my biggest argument when it comes to ships like these. Although JJ and Pope don’t have the tension lots of other characters typically do, Pope and JJ have more tension, and more reason to like each other than Pope and Kie do. In my opinion, none of them should be in a relationship because they’re dealing with their own stuff or just not a good match. JJ is really not in the place to be romantically invested in anyone right now. And Popes romance plot does nothing for either character besides create more negative tension. His attraction to Kie feels like it was written in as a plot point, and not clear through the script. Pope has the energy of a guy who has never had close friends before and doesnt know how to distinguish those feelings. I know I personally struggled with that when I was younger, unsure if I was platonically or romantically attracted to someone because I struggled to tell the difference. It’s a really hard thing for some people, and the pressure to have a crush on someone can often make you confuse those feelings. Especially if it’s someone of the opposite gender, because society expects you to like someone. And so those feelings can get tangled up and confused. I don’t want to sit here and invalidate Popes feelings for Kie but I’m just throwing it out there as a possibility as he really doesn’t seem romantically attracted to her so much as he just. Likes her as a person.

On a similar note, it can go the exact same way when you’re questioning your sexuality. If you’re friends with someone who Is the same gender as you, you can often brush your strong feelings off as friendship. And often once you come to terms with your sexuality you can go back and see “oh. That’s what that was.” You are much more likely to dismiss those romantic feelings if it’s someone of the same gender. I know that was something I personally struggled with, was eventually realizing what I felt had evolved past friendship, and I hadn’t noticed it because I never even considered the possibility.

JJ really doesn’t have a love interest season one. He’s fiercely loyal and protective, and does a very good job of not addressing the gravity of his problems (he brushes things off with his dad very lightly). He seems to overcompensate by flirting with everyone, but rarely opening up to anyone. He shows no interest in Sarah or Kie whatsoever and makes no genuine attempt to get with either of them, which further solidifies the flirting as a persona.

If I was writing JJ, he would not be straight. I wouldn’t even say hes bi. He has closeted gay guy with homophobic dad energy. His dad is kinda a dick for no real reason now, adding in that he’s homophobic and thinks JJ is gay would give them a reason to have tension. Given the area they live in it really doesn’t seem like a safe area to be gay in. So he would already have that internalized homophobia so if he ever did think he wasn’t straight it would just add on to his pile of self loathing. We have no idea what all is there but it’s very clear JJ has a lot of self hatred and doubt. It’s not unreasonable to assume some of this could be related to sexuality.

So In a short summary

-Pope and Kie don’t make sense. It’s a forced relationship that leads me to believe Pope is struggling to distinguish his feelings from each other.

-I think JJ is gay. He shows no interest in women whatsoever, and seems very closeted. Even if he knows I don’t think he’s ready to be out.

-I would argue Pope as bi, because he does seem to show interest in women, but he also shows interest in JJ in a different way. I think he has a lot of untangling of his own emotions to do before he should be in a relationship.

So in summary. No, I wouldn’t say jjpope is canon. That being said, I think both JJ and pope are not straight, I just think they aren’t far enough along in their own development yet to understand and be comfortable with that. With good buildup and a proper writer, JJ and pope could pretty easily be made to work in later seasons. So I would say not now (again I haven’t watched season two yet) but if you wanted it could be written in easily without seeming forced. The groundwork is there for both of them.

But if we’re talking about outer banks characters we think are not straight? Above all else I stand by the fact that I think Sarah Cameron is a lesbian who has massive amounts of comphet. It just makes sense.

Yes this is going to be a series I have been sent many ships to talk about like this and I will be working my way through them all. Due to a suggestion all of these are gonna be tagged under #deathoftheauthorbirthofthemcmac so it’ll be easy to scroll through!

#deathoftheauthorbirthofthemcmac #outer banks season one #outer banks #jj outer banks #pope outer banks #jjpope #JJ and pope #mlm ships #outer banks analysis

[whelvenwings]

A few thoughts on Good Omens and representation and queerbaiting, if you'll permit:

1. I love and appreciate the fact that there's so much room for interpreting Aziraphale and Crowley in so many different ways. I really do enjoy that space very much

2. Simultaneously this means there is also plenty of space to interpret the two of them as cisgender heterosexual heteroromantic men, and I find it difficult and honestly frustrating that this means there's a contingent of good omens fans who hate on queer interpretations and can use canon to back themselves up. And there's also an amount (a large amount, I'd argue based on anecdotal evidence) of casual viewers who saw the show and never had queerness occur to them when watching Crowley and Aziraphale on screen. The show didn't cause any confrontation with that idea for them as they watched.

3. How responsible is the show for that reaction, though? That's the question at the core of this, perhaps.

4. Hearing people involved with the making of the show say there's room for any interpretation, that'll ring familiar to viewers of queerbaity shows like spn with its whole "the fans use the show as a canvas onto which they paint the stories that mean the most to them". Because we know that if there's room for us, there's room for a lot of other stuff too. And if we're saying there's space for any interpretation in Good Omens, then there IS space for the cynical view that the creators of the show wanted to maximise its appeal and so left any overt queerness in the negative space on screen, only speaking about it behind the scenes where the casual viewer likely won't come across it. I'm not saying this is true, or that I myself believe it: I'm saying that space for interpretation cuts in every direction.

5. And yes, not every interpretation is as backed up by proof as the next. I could take the position that Crowley is secretly possessed by the spirit of King James VI of Scotland and I could probably find textual evidence for it if I really tried but that wouldn't mean anyone would have to take me seriously. Given the amount of backlash that there was towards queer interpretations of Aziraphale and Crowley right after Good Omens aired, though, I think there's definitely reason to take seriously the viewpoint that leaving this amount of space for interpretation can cause harm and have a negative effect on some or even many queer fans, and that matters.

6. It's a complicated position to be in, to wish added elements in a story not for the story's own sake but for the sake of changing how the show is interpreted irl by other people. On the one hand you want to say, just focus on the story's integrity and what it means for you. There's ample reason for this or that interpretation, so just have fun with it. On the other hand, I don't think it's a position at all deserving of ridicule to say "I wish this story had this element because I want to be treated better in real life when I interact with the fans of this show and I think this would make a difference". I'm non-binary and I would've loved a more textual, spoken exploration of gender beyond costume and occupation, for example, as interesting and rich in detail as those elements were in the show. Partly just to be able to watch that for myself, and partly so transphobic viewers would have to be confronted by that content and actually give their views some thought for a second. Or maybe just feel uncomfortable/stop watching, because screw them.

7. And to be clear, I personally wouldn't want to cement anything beyond the fact that queerness is being explored in the show - because as obvious as that seems to some viewers, to others it's just not apparent that queerness is even potentially being touched on. How to put this... Pratchett for me is the king of combining nuance & subtlety with firmness of purpose. In his books imo there's no room to wonder 'is he talking about this?' but there is so much room to wonder 'what do the characters think about this? what does Pratchett think? what do I think?'. The topic is undeniably brought up for everyone reading in one way or another, without forcing through any kind of particular message or conclusion, and that's a huge part of Pratchett's skill showing, and I would have loved to have everyone experience that firmness of purpose in Good Omens regarding queerness. I recognise not everyone would want this! For some people what we have is perfect and I totally get that. I think there's a lot of room for different opinions to be expressed about this in good faith, and not all of them are gonna be 'the exact balance of canon rep vs space for interpretation was completely perfect in good omens', and that's okay.

8. Overall, the rep in Good Omens opens up so many interesting questions for me. All of the things I've just said I can think of further arguments about, though I don't want this to get out of hand so I'll wind down. But like, can your show be said to have amazing representation if it doesn't explicitly canonically represent any queerness beyond doubt? Is it even possible to represent queerness beyond doubt? How on the nose does representation have to get to be considered canonical? Is the Good Omens way of representing queerness actually more helpful than characters who say and do things that people would usually not really say or do irl, just to prove their queerness? Is the reason people don't say or do those things irl because they're afraid of consequences, a fear that could be lessened by the general acceptance that can be brought about in part through the unquestionable presence of queerness in media? This shit is so interesting and there are so many layers to it and I don't see the need to shut down the conversation.

#I'm gonna leave this out of the GO main tag because I'm not sure these thoughts would be particularly welcome there and I get that #and if anyone wants me to tag this a certain way to get it off their dash I get that too! let me know #I just wanted to elucidate my thoughts for myself tbh and just sort of say that #not every attempt to say GO has a complicated relationship with queer rep is done in bad faith #it's not all just 'if they didn’t kiss it's not queer'... even though there is a lot of that to which of course a resounding fuck off #I just feel it's okay to discuss this! #it's okay to wish for more and have reasons why and express that #also the point about Pratchett's writing got like 29394 words longer and I deleted them all hajfkvjd #but listen! his books are just confronting topic after topic and you KNOW what he’s talking about and you’re THINKING about it #while also there's supernatural happenings and plot and humour and and #skills #the skills he had. damn

[aster-ion]

Sylvie x Loki Might Not Happen and Here’s Why

***SPOILERS FOR LOKI TV SHOW***

1.  They are basically siblings

Even though they have different personalities, backstories, and physical appearances, that doesn't change the fact that they are the genetic equivalent of siblings. No matter what Timeline you're looking at, both Sylvie and Loki are the offspring of Laufey and whoever he had children with. We know this because they are Variants of the exact same person, meaning that if either of them were born to someone other than Laufey, they would have been pruned as a baby. And since they weren't, that means they must be just as genetically similar as siblings are.

Because of this, the idea of Sylvie and Loki engaging in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship is extremely disturbing to a lot of fans. It's too big an oversight to brush past, especially when the show has continued to remind us over and over that they are, in fact, both Lokis. Maybe if them being the same person wasn't such a major plot point, it would be easier to ignore the facts, but it is, and that means that Marvel is basically pushing either an incest or selfcest (depending on how you look at it) type relationship. And that’s extremely risque for a corporation as large as Marvel, especially with a character as beloved by fans as Loki. 

2.  It is terrible LGBTQ+ representation

And before anyone says anything, no, it is not because Sylvie is portrayed as female and Loki as male. I've seen a lot of Sylvie x Loki shippers say that the reason people don't like the couple is due to it being one between a male and female, but that's not true. Loki and Sylvie were both confirmed to be bisexual, meaning that they can engage in a relationship with anyone of any gender. It would be completely valid for either of them to pursue romance with someone of a different sex and still be bisexual. No one is arguing against that, and if they are, I definitely do not agree with them.

However, the problem comes in when you take into account Marvel and Disney's (who owns Marvel) long history of queerbaiting. There have been countless times that Disney advertises their "first gay character!" only for it to be a single line of dialogue or a brief shot. Marvel in particular has used the popularity of certain LGBTQ+ ships and headcanons in their fanbase to generate media popularity that they don't actually follow through with in their movies/shows. So when Loki was confirmed to be both genderfluid and bisexual in Episode Three, lots of people felt like they were finally getting a win for representation. 

But those people, myself included, appear to have been let down again. The first two official queer characters had so much potential to go off and be with anyone they wanted, but instead, the show has set them up to be in a romance with each other. Now, this wouldn't be problematic on it's own, but when you take into consideration the questionable nature of their romance from Point One as well as the fact that the show has explicitly referred to it as "twisted," it raises the question of whether or not this is actually good representation. Because the fact is, in one episode the writers went “look, it’s two queer people!” and in the next, they said “their relationship is disgusting and demented.” Marvel’s first bisexual characters being borderline incestuous/selfcestuous does not sit well with me at all.

All of this is made even more confusing when you take into account the background of the Loki crew, most notably, the director Kate Herron. She also directed the Netflix series Sex Education, which has quite a bit of very well done representation of all kinds. So how is she managing to fail so badly on this project? It makes me wonder whether she truly is just losing her touch or if this is all a misdirection. Personally, I'm hoping for the latter.

3.  It does not send the "self love" message people seem to think it does

The writers, director, and cast of Loki have said multiple times that the relationship between Sylvie and Loki is meant to act as a metaphor for self love. And in a way, that makes a lot of sense. Despite creating different identities for themselves over time, they are still ultimately the same person and therefore share a special bond because of it. And there's a lot of potential that can be done with that concept.

Loki is an extremely complex and intriguing character. He has experienced a lot of trauma in his past that has shaped him into the person he is today. And that person is clearly very broken. He has never given away or received any kind of love, with the exception of his mother and possibly his brother, Thor. Other than that, he's had no healthy friendships, romances, or perception of himself. It makes sense for him to be confused by this pull he feels towards Sylvie, who is both alarmingly alike and vastly different from himself.

Something this series does exceptionally well is breaking Loki out of his comfort zone. He is finally forced to see himself from other people's perspectives. It started with the file Mobius showed him in the first episode. Loki was able to view his actions apart from himself, and was hit with the realisation that he had been hurting people, and he didn't like that. 

Loki is also confronted by the existence of the Time Keepers and the TVA, who describe him as an antagonist and nothing more. To them, his role is to make those around him look better, even if that means he repeatedly gets the short end of the stick. Mobius mentions that he disagrees with this and that Loki "can be whoever and whatever he wants, even someone good," adding another layer of depth as to who Loki could be in the future of the series. 

Another huge moment for Loki's character development is while in the Time Loop Prison with Sif. Though he starts out annoyed with the situation and recalls not feeling apologetic when he cut off Sif's hair, the longer he is in the loop, the more he changes. Loki admits things to himself that we have never seen him say aloud, such as the fact that he is a narcissist that craves attention. Sif telling Loki over and over that he deserves to be alone makes Loki question whether or not he believes that to be true, allowing him an introspective moment where he really has to think about who he is. 

Now with all of that being said, I'd like to tie in why this is important to the writing of Loki and Sylvie. They act as a mirror to one another, representing both the flaws and strengths of "what makes a Loki a Loki." For once, Loki gets an honest, unbiased look at himself without layers of expectations or self doubt. On Lamentis, he calls Sylvie "amazing" and praises her for all her accomplishments. That's a huge moment for him because it shows that despite also finding her irritating, he can look past those traits and see someone worth being a hero underneath. And through that realisation, he begins to understand that he can also grow to love himself. That kind of character development for Loki is incredible to watch, and it's the kind of character development I want to see from this series. Unfortunately, them possibly engaging in a romantic relationship will ruin it.

Whenever I'm feeling insecure about myself and my abilities, the solution has never been to look at who I am through a romantic lens. Self love is an entirely different type of love from romantic love, so if the series tries to push this relationship as a romance, it will fail to truly represent the arc that they are trying to show.

4.  Nobody likes it 

This one's a little on the nose, but it's true. Almost no one likes this ship, and more than that, most people actively hate it. Yes, there is a small minority that like Loki and Sylvie together, but there is an overwhelmingly larger group that is disgusted and angry by the fact that the show paired them up.

After Episode 4 aired, I ranted for about an hour and a half with a friend about how much we didn't want them together. My aunt whom I have never texted reached out to me to say that she hated their relationship. My homophobic neighbour came over and told me that she would prefer any other romance to this. Friends that I haven't talked to much since school let out for summer have all agreed that they collectively dislike Loki x Sylvie. This ship has brought people together purely because everyone hates it more than they hate each other.

There is no denying that the general feedback for Loki and Sylvie being a couple has been negative, even if you support them getting together for some reason. So if there are so many people out there who don't like it, I'm confused as to how it would be approved by a team of professionals.

5.  The contradicting information we have gotten so far

Before the release of Episode Four, Kate Herron said that the relationship between Loki and Sylvie was “not necessarily romantic.” During the interview, she continued to refer to them as friends and people who found solace and trust in each other.

However, after Episode Four, the head writer, Michael Waldron, and other members of the crew spoke up about Sylvie and Loki. They said things like “it just felt right that that would be Loki’s first real love story” and “these are two beings of pure chaos that are the same person falling in love with one another.” These kinds of comments very heavily imply something romantic, directly contradicting what Kate Herron said. Even Tom Hiddleston, the actor for Loki, has assessed the situation, highlighting the differing viewpoints. He’s also said before that the end of Episode Four ultimately has Loki getting in his own way. 

Now, this could all just be a misdirection on either side to build suspense for the show, but as of right now, it is entirely unclear who is telling the truth. Though it is more likely that the statements made by Michael Waldron are more accurate (as he is the writer), there is still a slight possibility that Loki x Sylvie won’t happen. I’ll link the articles I’ve found on this topic below so you can read them and decide for yourself. 

Kate Herron Statement - https://www.cbr.com/loki-sylvie-relationship-not-romantic/ 

Michael Waldron Statement - https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/loki-sylvie-in-love 

Tom Hiddleston Statement - https://thedirect.com/article/loki-tom-hiddleston-sylvie-romance 

6.  It is still salvageable

The odds are not in our favour, I’m afraid. It is highly probable that the show will put Loki and Sylvie in a romantic relationship with each other. Yet there is still a way to salvage it and turn their bond into something incredibly satisfying. Like I mentioned in Point Three, the relationship between Loki and Sylvie has the potential to be incredibly empowering and provide both characters some much-needed growth. And I believe that while unlikely, it can still do that. 

The only mention of them being romantically interested in each other came from Mobius, who at the time was angry, betrayed, and doing anything he could to get Loki to talk. Then, at the end of the episode, right before Loki is about to confess something important to Sylvie, he is pruned. This results in no explicit confirmation from either Loki or Sylvie that they are in love with each other. The audience is left not knowing whether Mobius was correct in his speculations, and honestly, I don’t think Loki knows either.

Loki is no expert on love, as I explained earlier. It is entirely possible that he doesn’t grasp how he feels about Sylvie and defaults to romance because of what Mobius said. There is undoubtedly some sort of deep bond forming between them, and I would love to see that being explored in the next two episodes. I would love to watch Loki’s journey of realising that he doesn’t want anything romantic with Sylvie, and was simply confused by the new things he was feeling towards her. Loki even says “this is new for me” when talking to Sylvie at the end of Episode Four. Him momentarily believing that he wants to be a couple with her then shifting into them becoming friends who help each other grow is still a reality that could happen. And ultimately, I think that would benefit them both as characters as well as strengthen the overall message of the show.

In a show about self love, acceptance of yourself, and figuring out who you want to be, Loki very much needs people who support him. He has that in Mobius already, and now he’s beginning to have it in Sylvie as well. I just hope that it is done in a way that resonates with the audience and subverts expectations, which just cannot be done through some twisted romantic relationship. I’ve spoken to others watching the show and seen people talking online, and everyone seems to agree that Loki and Sylvie work much better as platonic soulmates or found family than a couple. 

Of course, my hopes aren’t that high up. While I’d love for this to happen, I’ve been let down by Marvel before and wouldn’t be surprised if they went for the easy route of pairing characters up rather than dealing with the emotions correctly. Still, I have hope for this series. Everything else about it is wonderful and perfect in every way. It has the potential to become a masterpiece and easily the best thing that Marvel has ever done. However, this romance would ruin it for me and so many others. We already feel incredibly disappointed by Loki x Sylvie being suggested, so I can’t even begin to fathom how people will react if the show makes it canon. I’m begging Marvel to please do better than this. They have a wonderful story to tell and a wonderful team to do it, and I hope from the bottom of my heart that they don’t throw that away. 

#marvel #loki #sylvie #mobius #loki x sylvie #loki x mobius #kate herron #michael waldron #disney #lgbtq #representation #tva #loki tv

[incarnateirony]

idk if you are on twitter, but there's a journalist named Natalie fisher that basically just said we should believe that episode 18 was mishas last? on one hand a lot of the analysis you provide makes sense, but also like,, she is a journalist so idk what to do with this information

...Listen, I’m going to tell you something.

Someone literally told that same journalist exactly what was going to happen in the 15.18 confession scene before it happened and she argued with them that it wasn’t going to happen.

I only know this because a friend explicitly asked me if they were allowed to tell her our exclusive leak which was different from the original script leak but had to do with a fluke interception of the episode in transit. Because other countries exist that dub the show. But of course you can't just swing that around, so it was proposed, and apparently, she sat there refusing it. Well, we tried.

Our own server was so damn well prepared the bot was coded to link a Whitney Houston song any time someone yelled WHITNEY, as was expected inevitable, because the general vibe was

An entire server of clowns had like 60 memes ready. But here she is, arguing. With someone who knew better. For 2 months. Condescendingly even. Like wow that's stupid it would never be that loud ignore it lolol.

In fact in her misguided confidence she basically gaslit both herself and the friend to the point the friend rolled back what they believed and started questioning if it was a translation issue since it didn't arrive in english and maybe cas reall WASN'T going to tell dean he had always loved him and tell him why he deserves it before the empty takes him.

Uhhh...

So like. 

Take it with a grain of salt.

Natalie is usually good, for the record. Among journalists, she’s okay. She’s even friends with Meredith. But that said Meredith clearly didn’t tell her that, and that had been planned from go. She’s been stonewalled, she’s not getting screeners, she’s not getting intel, she’s /just as blind as you are right now./

Also her own logic is self-contradicting. What she is functioning on is anxiety.

Just like everybody else. She’s not used to flying blind. She’s used to knowing exactly what’s going on. She’s not used to doing fandom CSI and frankly, she even has been known to uh, borrow meta, but most meta right now is “DeanCas?” and she doesn’t want to do that because “getting up people’s hopes” or whatever. So she doesn’t have her direct feed line, she doesn’t have her screeners, she doesn’t have her normal press access and she doesn’t even have content to lift.

Summarily: she has no idea how to function right now, and I actually mean that in the kindest way.

As for that conflicting logic? Read her thread and apply your brain.

She acknowledges that Misha said he was going to be filming 5 more days after episode 18.

She then says that covid might have changed it.

She then also says that the reason he can’t come back is actually because that would just about demand reciprocation from Dean which, she personally believes they can’t do (just like she didn’t believe a week and a half ago that they were going to do ... uh, 15.18.)

Okay, so riddle me this: if the logic is that Misha can’t come back cuz it’s too gay, what does covid have to do with that change, and why would that change from literally the day after they filmed 15.18?

Logic people. Use it. Stop letting anxiety drive your CPU. 

Like either they had a way to handle it or they didn't. You don't cut one of your leads for extras after a major plot decision. And she even breaks out the stupid HE WAS FILMING A DIFFERENT MOVIE THATS WHY HE WAS IN VAN line.

Protip: spn was the only thing back in production then. They were the first ones back and a testing ground for Vancouver protocol.

Protip: the Amazon movie he's filming is filmed in the US

Protip: he went through multiple beard and haircut waves between each of these events, changing for each role.

What this actually means is, in lieu of actual sources, she's lifting fandom created noises that simple checks shoot down (eg being in van before van filming opened to film a us movie that didn't start filming for weeks even after his covid quarantine period in the wrong goddamn fucking country). Fandom, so goddamn desperate to find some validation for noise, decides to ascribe extra meaning to words and ideas they themselves halfassedly created and got a confused fandom journo to repeat in lieu of other sources. This is like the Trump Fox loop.

Pls ppl i beg you to use your braincases.

Like us, sitting here staring into the abyss of a transcript of not just words but events, trying to shoot holes in the source for months, peering into the abyss of the chain link saying "Destiel is going canon" (though i disagree with the fandom use of the term still) and even we weren't ready for the merch line that Stands had planned for a year and a half and also not told anyone.

Is this a way to promise your specific destiel goalpost is hit, no. But it's a point that currently she knows no more than you do, she has been violently wrong on just this topic matter recently, and her points don't even MAKE SENSE.

As it is, even on set leakers have been wrong. The original march leak came attached to a statement of having read 19 and Cas not even being mentioned. How did that work out for you?

But sure. They decided a groundbreaking swing for Cas with marketing for Dare To Defy everyone called queerbait that he and Jensen were both put in and a full planned merch line but stopped their plans because of the gay covid.

Again, do i promise your personal destiel landmark, no. Am i confident that Misha will be in the finale? Absolutely. If you remember in regards to destiel, before the season started, I commented that with the change in WB leadership, having its first woman CEO, having more women, people of color, and lgbtq people in high-ranking positions that ever, they're repackaging plan to recover from the AT&T bounce, the complete crash out of CEOs in their child and sister companies, and more, Anything Could Happen. I believe I used the term, it is a roll of the dice. Somewhere in the depths of my blog from season 14 and 15 Hiatus is the phrase, with the right roll of the dice, we could do anything. That line, from the god corporate told them in s11 they couldn't kill so they would find another way, has still slapped the taste out of my mouth from the Trap.

[luninosity]

Okay, so, some Falcon and the Winter Soldier thoughts (will have some spoilers) for episodes two and three. General non-spoilery comment first: I feel like these were both *okay* episodes - neither as good as the first, but I didn’t dislike them, either. I’m still really curious to see how we’re going to wrap this all up in three more episodes; it doesn’t feel like we’re halfway done yet!

Okay, more spoiler-y notes below the Read More, not in any real order, just as I think and type. I’ll probably forget some things, but for now, here’re some thoughts...

--I like ep 3 slightly more than ep 2, mostly because of Zemo!

--I actually really love Zemo here (I liked him in Civil War, too): complex, sardonic, enjoying poking at people, a villain we do feel sympathy for even as he’s still sharp enough to remind us that he is a villain. Daniel Bruhl has always done a fantastic job flipping between calculated cruelty, wry humor - the whole “I am a Baron” moment was great - and pain that for him is still raw, about the loss of his family. (Some things’re awfully cliche - look, the supervillain’s playing chess and reading Machiavelli in his cell? really? - but, y’know...sure. Why not. We expect some cliches in the superhero genre, and this is an inoffensive one.)

--also Zemo dancing. That’s it. That’s everything.

--moving on from that: I’m also really liking how they’re writing John Walker. He does have charm, and there’s a certain amount of sympathy - especially as we see him worrying about filling the Captain America shoes, in ep 2 - but we’re also getting this really subtle sense of wrongness about him. He’s clearly vindictive and angry when things (and people) don’t act according to his mental script for them, and he’s willing to use his name and power to do things like get Bucky released...which in context and given our sympathies for Bucky is a good thing, but...it’s also an indicator of his willingness to do what he wants, because he can. (To be fair, Steve Rogers also often did that! - but Steve earned our trust, both in narrative and character. From his first introduction to WWII leadership experience to all the Avengers stuff, Steve consistently acts to protect people, and he’ll also listen if someone else has a good idea or if someone needs to talk, like with Wanda.) So I’m really liking this slow-fuse character development.

--mixed feelings about Sharon. I love that the show’s acknowledging how much she sacrificed for our main heroes, with no reward. On the other hand, she also clearly knew the consequences that could happen; she said as much at the time. The level of bitterness seems like a lot. But I’m also interested in everything we still don’t know about her - if she’s not the Power Broker herself, she’s obviously Up To Something. So that should be fun.

--hey, look at that X-Men location, with Majipoor! Also a nod to Wolverine’s favorite bar there, I think?

--I love heist and disguise plots!

--I also really like Bucky’s having to revert to the Winter Soldier - Sebastian Stan does it so brilliantly, with so many layers of emotion: not wanting to, loathing it, recognizing the necessity, shutting off all emotion and just coldly doing it, hurting but covering it up...just fantastic, and you know I love some hurt/comfort, and this seems like such a great set-up for emotional hurt

--but! this also seems like...a weird plot hole, kind of? Bucky’s pretty famous at this point, right? I imagine the criminal underworld knows he’s been pardoned and deprogrammed, right? or do they assume Zemo, with his knowledge of Hydra, still has some special control over him?

--along the same “this seems like someone didn’t think this through” path, Sam, you’re a professional, turn off your phone on a mission. Oh my god. Face-palmingly stupid - and I think somewhat lazy writing, as the writers plainly needed a giveaway, and went for the first idea they had. Even if it made a main character look incompetent.

--the Flag Smashers and Karli are...fine. They feel very Generic Marvel Villain - not the big space alien type, but the other type, the “I have a personal loss and motivating pain so I’m a little sympathetic but also Clearly Evil, watch me kill civilians so the audience won’t ever find me TOO sympathetic” type. Meh. Fine. Zemo’s more interesting, but...fine.

--Anthony Mackie is such a fantastic actor - every bit of his reaction to the Isaiah Bradley reveal is so good. The anger, pain, frustration, ferocity...heartbreaking. Actually that whole scene is so good - his emotions at discovering this secret history are palpable, and it’s so painful, because we also understand why Bucky would keep the secret - as someone who knows about pain and trauma and being experimented on, and knowing Isaiah wants to be left alone - we feel really deeply for both characters here, and it’s great.

--I actually liked the abrupt swing from the Isaiah Bradley encounter to the casual everyday racism of the cops on the street - is it subtle, no. But it’s not meant to be: it’s meant to be standing up and shouting about how not that much has really changed, and about how pervasive racism is. I know some reviews were all, “this was just too much!” or “too forced!” but...look, it needs to be shouted sometimes for people to hear.

--Bucky’s notebook being Steve’s, oh, ouch, my feelings. If I had the time and energy to write fic...

--(also, if I had the time and energy to write dark!fic: where’re my fics in which Zemo’s implication about the Winter Soldier “doing anything you want” gets played with? what or who does Bucky have to do to keep the undercover charade going? so many Bad Wrong Kinky power dynamics and explorations of consent and what this would do to Bucky’s head, here, and honestly I’d totally read them all, just saying.)

--Sam and Bucky together...I don’t know. This is one of the elements that I’m not actually a huge fan of, but I think it’s partly a personal genre / sense of humor thing that’s not clicking for me, personally, again. Like...

--I don’t find people shouting aggrievedly at each other to be funny? I’m not sure why it is.

--I mean, I get that they’re doing, like, eighties buddy cop movies, but...it got old really fast then, and it’s not something we needed to bring back. It’s not clever, and it’s...well, shouty and annoying.

--(I say this as someone who genuinely likes the first two Lethal Weapon movies...but the significant difference is, I think, we’re also shown in both those movies that Riggs and Murtaugh care about each other. They don’t want to be partners initially, and they don’t get along initially, and they do argue over tactics**...but they immediately feel responsible for each other and act to protect each other even as they argue, because it’s the right thing to do and we’re shown moments of them awkwardly trying to connect, because they both have that deep sense of...protectiveness...that makes them Good People - like, if they learn something that the other person needs to know, they tell each other. They protect each other’s families / love interests. So by the end of the second movie, with that fabulous character death fake-out, Murtaugh’s initial shock and grief is real and powerful and painful, and so is his genuine relief when the worst isn’t true - and it’s all earned.) (**however, they tend to argue tactics *before* jumping in - “is it 1, 2, 3, go on 3? or 3, then go?” And then once that’s established, they go ahead. That makes a difference as far as...well...competence and teamwork!)

--(Sam and Bucky, as far as I can tell, don’t do the above, and just...maybe shouldn’t be working together?)

--I also don’t find grown men acting like my youngest nephew, when he’s having a temper tantrum, to be funny. Staring contests? Random insults? Sulking in silence? Oh, grow up.

--(Also, yes, writers, we see you with the “couples therapy” and “get closer and make your legs touch” and “landing on top of each other as they hit the ground” moments. I, at least, personally, am very tired of...I don’t know that I’d call it queerbaiting exactly, but this idea that we’re supposed to find these moments funny...because why? Because, ooh, they’re two men getting close to each other, physically or emotionally? Why is this a thing we need to draw attention to? Do you think you’re doing some sort of fan service? Please either make Sam/Bucky happen or stop doing this.)

--both Sam and Bucky are highly competent and professional agents, or they should be. They should know how to work in the field - even with people they may not like - and adapt to shifting strategy, make best use of available assets, include people in the plan, etc. I can’t help but compare this to something like, say, Leverage, which also has a team who mocks each other and makes jokes but clearly absolutely respects each other’s capabilities, has a plan going in and tells everyone what the plan is, and adapts (and trusts each other to adapt) on the fly as necessary, and does it all without random insults about someone’s (PTSD-related) staring and “robot brain”.

--one of the very specific moments that bothers me a lot is the ending of the therapy scene (yay for showing heroes in therapy! but also I’m pretty sure she’s...not a great therapist?). Bucky finally opens up and says something real, about his own self-doubt and wondering whether Steve was wrong about him....and Sam just...brushes it off and goes, “we’re done here,” basically. Not only does that feel wildly out of character for former counselor Sam, it feels cruel. I really deeply dislike that moment the more I think about it. Makes me want to scream.

--Sam insults Bucky way more than the other way around. It’s starting to feel very one-sided (it’d be better if more clearly reciprocal, though it’s still not a dynamic that’s my favorite), and again, feels out of character - maybe this is Anthony Mackie’s sense of humor, but Sam isn’t Mackie, and Bucky isn’t Seb, and it reads as...a weird unbalanced power-trip thing to me. And also out of character for Sam, who can be sarcastic (”If you guys eat that sort of thing,” about breakfast, when Steve and Nat have randomly shown up at his door) but that’s not the same as just throwing unprovoked insults at a person who’s trying to recover from trauma, and a lot of those insults seem to center on things that were done to Bucky, that he had no choice in (the staring, the arm, etc), and that feels....it just feels mean, to me. Make fun of things he’s had a choice in / can do something about, if you have to - hair, clothes, liking “old people’s games” like gin rummy or pinochle, not knowing who Beyonce is, I don’t know, there are so many options that aren’t cruel! Do that instead. Let Bucky have a good comeback for once, too!

--the action scenes are action scenes. Also fine.

--Sam might be right about destroying the shield, and the show may even be (unintentionally?) setting that up as the best outcome, but that’s a problem for the future, Sam; get it back first. Also it’s a problem you caused by giving the shield up - did you really trust the government to leave it unused in a museum? You’re not that naive.

--overall, it’s...a perfectly fine show, so far, I think? Solid, and interesting, but not great. I think some of what doesn’t work for me is because it doesn’t work for me personally, as far as the shouty insult-heavy action “comedy” bits that I’m not enjoying, but I think they’re doing what they aimed for with it, so in that sense, I guess it’s working? There’s a lot of really cool stuff around the edges - John Walker, Isaiah Bradley, that Dora Milaje stinger, the bigger world of a history interwoven with racism and superpowers, the chillingly effective use of Bucky’s past - but I wish I liked the central Sam-Bucky relationship more. Individually they’re wonderful - they’ve both had such powerful scenes dealing with family, trauma, and consequences - but I feel like, in the effort to do the buddy comedy dynamic, the writing has just made me really sure that they actually genuinely don’t like each other? To such an extent that if they show any affection / caring / interest in each other in the last three episodes, it won’t be believable. (I mean Sam and Bucky, not Mackie and Seb. Mackie and Seb’re adorable.)

--I just want to think about Zemo dancing some more.

#the falcon and the winter soldier #tfatws spoilers #spoilers #fatws spoilers #thoughts

[itsclydebitches]

I’m wlw. While, I’m not going to shame WLW members of the FNDM, bumblby pisses me off. V6 skipped development for both characters for the sake of “confirming” it, but I thought there scenes in V7 were cute. At first. Then it felt like RT dangling gay keys in front of my face. Now they’re attached to the hip while giving the het. ship (Renora) independence. Yang doesn’t care what Ruby thinks and only Blake was upset by her fall. What are your thoughts?

I’ve touched on their relationship quit a bit over the years, on and off, so I’ll try to summarize those big thoughts here: 

I like the ship. I’ve always liked the ship. I’ve never been a die-hard fan like some, but as soon as I entered the fandom and realized they were a thing I went, “Oh yeah, I can see that. I’m on board!” 

Which isn’t to say I’m always a fan of how people engage with them. It’s a fact that every major ship in any fandom is going to have its annoying, dramatic, and toxic elements. It’s also a fact that RWBY has developed a reputation for being particularly vitriolic. I think a lot of the hate towards Blake/Yang stems less from what we actually got in the canon and more from bad experiences from a small subset of fans. Not everyone. Not even the majority. But enough that casual fans, Blake/Sun fans, those who dislike the ship, etc. have reached a point where bmblb is a) so incredibly prominent and b) at times so heated that even a fellow shipper can grow frustrated at the state of the “RWBY” tag. This then bleeds into our reading of the canon material. After all, if you’re frustrated about seeing this pairing so often in fandom spaces and/or you’ve had a bad run-in with someone who ships them, seeing even more of them on Saturday will exacerbate those feelings. 

This is a frustration that’s increased as the show still refuses to make the relationship canon. Crafting scenes each week where something semi-romantic occurs, but isn’t enough to confirm a relationship (like the forehead touch) creates a branching number of annoyances, from “Oh my god how is this still not canon” to “Here’s another week of the whole fandom claiming it is canon.” Those “dangling gay keys” are a problem both for those desperate to see the relationship confirmed because they love it and those desperate to see the relationship confirmed so the characters can begin focusing on other aspects of their identities. “Attached at the hip” feels too close to queer baiting for comfort while simultaneously too narrow a depiction of Blake and Yang. Surely they have concerns and relationships outside of each other. 

I agree entirely that the relationship was rushed in some respects. However, there’s a post somewhere in the depths of my blog where I argue strongly that queer relationships should be allowed to be rushed, simply because so many het ships are too. I stand by that. I understand the frustration of moving from the two interacting primarily as teammates to suddenly holding hands, but that’s a gap that appears in many, many non-queer pairings. Jaune is a great example. Though we introduced Pyrrha’s interest in him from the get-go, he was running after Weiss for his whole time at Beacon, got a little closer to Pyrrha, she suddenly kissed him, and then... we’re meant to believe they were madly in love? His grief is certainly written in a way to imply as much. The cultural expectation of the guy losing the girl just fills in the rest, we didn’t actually see it on screen. So I both agree and disagree. I always want RWBY to be better written, but I also don’t want to hold our queer pairings to standards we don’t demand of the het ones. That way lies a lot of excuses for why it “can’t” ever happen. I’d rather have poorly written and rushed representation than no representation at all. 

Agree entirely about there being a problem with Yang’s fall. Blake’s reaction was fine. The lack of reaction from everyone else was not. As I said in my recap, you can’t prove their love by taking love away from these other relationships. Making Ruby seemingly care less about her sister will not convince me that Blake cares a great deal. Though this is a problem RT has across the whole cast, tying into that “attached at the hip”ness. Characters tend to have one (1) relationship and that’s it. RT really struggles to write a cohesive group, instead creating a collection of duos that happen to inhabit the same space. I can see places where they’ve been trying to correct that this volume  — Yang speaking to Ruby about Summer, Nora talking to the girls about Ren  — but moments like Blake’s talk with Ruby really struggle. In that, these characters haven’t spoken in seven seasons, so all Blake has to say is a generic, ‘I believe in you’ that comes across as stilted and unpersuasive  — we can see the writers trying to convince us that Ruby is The Best and that these girls have a relationship when they... don’t. And scenes like Yang’s fall show us that these underlying struggles are still at work. RT doesn’t know how to craft a scene where everyone reacts because Yang is a well-rounded person sporting a deep and unique relationship with three other teammates. They know how to craft a scene where the one (1) relationship takes centerstage and everyone else becomes cardboard cutouts. 

As for renora’s independence, I need to side with RWBY on this one. The entire point of this arc is that Nora realized she is also attached at the hip and wants to do something about it. That’s a good thing! Whether or not RT actually manages to write a relationship where they’re together without being entirely co-dependent remains to be seen, but splitting them in this last episode was a good start. Similarly, the show did separate Blake and Yang for the majority of this volume and now may have separated Yang from the group for a significant length of time. That’s not the same thing as the girls realizing they need space like Nora did... but then, they aren’t in an acknowledged relationship like Nora is. I don’t think it’s fair to compare them when Yang and Blake haven’t even reached the point where they’re talking about their relationship, let alone what that looks like going forward, and therein lies my real criticism. In order to see the depth RT is trying to give to renora, they have to actually make bmblb canon first. It all comes back to that. The question of queerbaiting, how they find healthy boundaries, how they compare to other relationships in the show... there’s no real groundwork to discuss any of that until we can say, 100%, that they are, in fact, a couple. 

#rwby #rwby spoilers #rwby volume 8 #mymetas #Anonymous

[stargazing-enby]

Hello Knower of All Things Queer! (Like seriously, I love you and your blog for all the info lol) Please could you tell me what the hell queerbaiting is?

Thanks! 🐸

I'm really glad you like my blog! I learn so much through the things I reblog, so I'm glad others do too 😊

I think the urban dictionary and Wikipedia definitions are pretty good tbh! It's basically a marketing technique where mass media creators add subtle cues that their characters may be queer but never actually make them canonically queer. That way, they can attract queer fans and allies—who are basically starved for representation—with the "promise" that there will eventually be canon rep, while also avoiding the wrath of their queerphobic audience.

Sherlock and Merlin from the BBC are the most well known examples, at least that I know of. I've only seen the term queerbaiting used in the context of hinting at romance/attraction between characters of the same gender, but I'm sure this also happens with trans characters as well as with other identities.

The thing is, when shows, movies, etc. hint at something that is accepted in society, like a straight* relationship, the audience doesn't need to question or analyse it. It's understood by everyone that those hints will follow through and those characters will be some brand of canon. Even if they don't end up together, their relationship will definitely be explored in some way. Why would those hints be there if not? That'd be poor storytelling.

But that's not true for things that aren't acceptable by society's standards, and in particular for queer themes. Following the example of ships, if two men or two women share intense looks, have moments of vulnerability with each other, or clearly display intense emotions for the other, there is absolutely no guarantee that anything beyond that will ever happen; that the characters will even acknowledge those emotions. In fact, in fandom spaces, anyone who DARES point out the clear chemistry between the characters—which is often being portrayed in the same ways as it's usually shown between straight characters—will have to face the wrath of all the homophobic fans of that media, who'll tell them they're trying to turn a good friendship into a queer one for their own personal agenda.

This happened with Princess Bubblegum and Marceline in Adventure Time, for example. They didn't become canon until the last episode of the show, where they kissed on the lips. Think about it. Through the show, it had been shown that the shirt Marceline gave PB held more emotional value that a plushie Marceline had owned for a thousand years that the man who rescued her during the apocalypse and raised her, only to lose himself to a curse and abandon her, had given her. Through the show, they are shown wearing clothes that belong to the other, blushing when looking at each other, singing about their feelings for the other... Hell, it's canon that they were really REALLY close before the events of the show, but PB's need to care for her kingdom made her push Marcy away. There was even a whole miniseries about Marcy becoming a mortal for a few days and growing up enough as a person that she was finally at a point in her life where she and PB could be equals and could finally "be together forever".

AND THEY STILL NEEDED TO KISS ON THE LIPS TO BECOME CANON.

Why do we have to analyse every single frame of a show and argue and write entire essays to "prove" our ship is canon before they kiss on the lips, when straight ships only have to look at each other for 3 seconds once and everyone already knows they'll be canon?

And yes, I say "on the lips" for a reason. After Ruby kissed Sapphire's face several times in a row while she lifted her off the floor in the last episode of season 1 of Steven Universe, homophobes on the Internet bullied literally anyone who dared imply they were anything more than siblings, or perhaps really good friends.

I mean, for fuck's sake. In Voltron, Keith told Shiro he loved him—he loved him—after a super intense battle where Keith risked his life to save Shiro from himself—and they STILL didn't become canon! It was the Bubbline argument all over again, except this time, instead of arguing with homophobes on Instagram about how, no, they were NOT just really good friends, we had to argue with antis on twitter and tumblr about how NO, that is NOT brotherly love! Ffs!!!!!

This has turned into a 3am ramble, but my point is that the way so many mass media creators capitalise off of queer identities while not making an ounce of effort to normalise our identities isn't just disgusting and queerphobic, it's also fucking dangerous. Because it teaches homophobes they're right when they silence us and tell us we're making things up—it teaches them that queer people identifying with their favourite characters are, in fact, forcing queer identities onto those very straight characters. It teaches them that they're rational and we're emotional.

And it's so fucking exhausting.

(Shoutout to Adventure Time and Steven Universe for making the wlw ships canon, though!!! But yeah, I used them as examples of how explicit our representation needs to be in order to count, and how this can be used in order to queerbait viewers—to give just enough hints that something SHOULD happen to attract a queer audience, but then never follow through and have the rest of your viewers be completely okay with that).

*I use 'straight' as an opposite of queer on this post

Ps. please bear in mind I'm not an authority in this topic—these are just my thoughts. Feel free to share yours!

#rockmarina answers #Ask #Long post #Queerbaiting #Homophobia tw #Queerphobia tw #Adventure time spoilers #I have a lot of feelings about Bubbline as you can probably tell #Not only were they my first wlw ship #I also cosplayed them with my girlfriend before we were evens dating #And wrote her Bubbline fic for her bday lol #And I argued with a LOT of homophobes about them #Gosh I got so riled up lol #And I'm sure most of them still think that Bubbline kissing in the last episode was 'fanservice' and ruined the show 🤷🏼‍♂️