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get-back-homeward · 1 year

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The Case of Thelma Pickles

Thelma's account of John is most often cherrypicked by detractors as evidence he was some lifelong wifebeater. While the violence in the incident she describes is clear, the nuance that makes her account so vivid gets lost in the debate.

I keep coming back to her account for her picture of John at a crucial time, only a few months after Julia is killed.

John’s girlfriend in the autumn of 1958 was Thelma Pickles, a new and interesting student at the art school, just turning 17. Initially, she thought him “a smartarse,” then changed her mind when she witnessed his reaction to a girl who asked if what she’d heard about his mother was true. “She said, ‘Hey John, I hear your mother’s dead.’ He didn’t flinch. He simply said, ‘Yeah.’ She carried on, ‘It was a policeman that knocked her down, wasn’t it?’ Again he didn’t react, he just said, ‘That’s right, yeah.’ I was stunned by his detachment, and impressed that he was brave enough not to break down or show any emotion. Of course, it was all a front.”30

Soon afterward, John and Thelma sat talking at the Queen Victoria Monument and each revealed being deserted by their dads. “He pissed off and left me when I was a baby,” John said of Alf, which was far from correct but no doubt how he felt. Thelma’s father had left home when she was ten; she was sensitive to the stigma of having only one parent and emotional when anyone mentioned it. “I couldn’t sustain the detachment John managed,” she says. “I thought it was quite an achievement to be able to behave like that.”

Suddenly, John and Thel, as he called her, were “going out.” The shared soul-baring cemented it, and also they fancied each other. Thelma was the first female John allowed to get close after Julia’s terrible death. She was given glimpses of his other side.

When we discussed it between ourselves I realized he was clearly more sensitive than he appeared. He spoke of the pure shock of losing his mother, and he said what a loss it was (though I don’t think he used the word “loss”). At such times, he spoke in a much softer, more explanatory way than usual, and though he never demonstrated extremes of emotion, his pain was clear. The other side of the coin was that he’d detect any minor frailty in somebody with a laser-like homing device. I thought he was hilarious, but it wasn’t funny to the recipients.31

Thelma was witness to a rare occasion at Mendips, when John, Paul and George all stood in the kitchen and played their guitars. Mimi was out, and before she was expected back Thelma and the two lads scarpered. John knew Mimi didn’t want them in the house and would raise merry hell about it, and he just didn’t need the headache. For a while, though, John and Thel took regular advantage of Mimi’s going out (it seems she went to play bridge one night a week). The plan, carefully formulated by John, was for Thel (who lived in Knotty Ash) to take the bus to Woolton; she and John would meet and sit across Menlove Avenue in a shelter on the edge of the golf course, and when Mimi left and walked down the street, over they’d go. “I only ever saw Mimi from a distance, in the dark,” Thelma says.

Mostly, Thel found John “enormous fun to be with, always witty, and when we were alone together he was really soft, thoughtful and generous-spirited.” He made them tea and toast, he made her laugh, and he made love to her in his little bedroom above the porch. “We didn’t call it sex—that word wasn’t really used by people then. John called it ‘going for a five-mile run,’ because he’d read or heard this was the amount of energy a man spent.” They used no protection, trusting only to luck, and John told Thel he was glad she was no “edge of the bed virgin”—his euphemism for the kind of girl who would take him half the way there but no further.

John and Thel often took afternoons off from art school to go to the pictures. He liked the old horror films at the equally old Palais de Luxe on Lime Street, and they also went to see Elvis’s final pre-army film, King Creole, which reached Liverpool Odeon in mid-October 1958. Though John very occasionally wore his glasses at college, he definitely didn’t do so in public, and without them, even sitting near the front of the stalls, he could hardly make out how his idol was faring up there on the big screen. He kept nudging Thelma, nagging her to describe all the action: “What’s he doing now, Thel?”

—Tune In, Ch. 9 (June–Dec 1958)

Her account of the beginning of their relationship supports Paul and Cynthia’s characterization of young John as a kid that put on a public front to mask fear and insecurities and grief. She is surprised by his detachment to loss, something she wishes she could attain. (Echoes of this story of John and Paul. Like recognizes like?) Yet with further scrutiny, she sees the detachment as a facade and discovers a shared trauma, and they bond over opening up about their family losses.

After this recognition, they become close. When alone, Thelma sees the softer side to John, thoughtful and generous. When in public, she notices his awareness of the eyes of others, mocking frailties of others while walking around half-blind himself. She finds him hilarious as long as his target is someone else, feeling a sense of specialness by being part of his crew. You can see echoes of John and Paul's mean girls schtick here.

It's notable that by 1959, John has made a habit out of bonding over shared grief/trauma. John meets Paul just after his mother dies, and John lost his father figure a few years before that. John meets Thelma after Julia’s death and they bond over absent fathers. John goes on to meet Cynthia, who has just recently lost her father.

Her account of the end of their relationship supports how John would lash out when power shifted and exposed his insecurities. This lashing out comprises not only one hit in a moment of anger, but several days/weeks(?) of public mocking in response to her ending the relationship over his own actions. Notice how he mocks her with a lie they both know isn’t true all because she wounded his ego? It’s the performance of it all that sticks with me.

And the only way she gets him to shut up is to match him in being equally vicious back. The games of adolescence perhaps, but its echoes in John’s other significant relationships suggest a pattern. Mind games, more than anything, is the weapon of choice.

[Quotes and sources under the cut]

During the course of this, John leaned over to Thel and asked if she fancied “going for a five-mile run.” She agreed, and they slipped upstairs to the Art History room, assuming it would be free. “It was dark but we could tell there were other couples in there, probably having a five-mile run of their own, or trying to,” Thelma recalls. “I told John I was uneasy about doing it in a place like that, especially with other people there, and he wasn’t happy with my attitude. When I insisted on going, and got up to leave, he became rough and whacked me one—his fist connected somewhere between my shoulder and my head, around my neck.”8

Thelma stormed off, and decided that was the end of their relationship. She did her best to avoid John through the following week, and when this wasn’t possible she simply ignored him. He started to mock her but she resisted his gibes, and this went on for several days until reaching its culmination in the Cracke. “He was still mocking me, in front of others, and then he called me ‘an edge of the bed virgin.’ That really pissed me off because we both knew it wasn’t true. He was just being sarcastic and wounding because he was pissed off with me, and I got so enraged I shouted back, ‘Don’t blame me just because your mother’s dead!’ It was a cruel remark, but he knew all about those. It just seemed the easiest way to get back at him.”

John and Thelma had reached the end of the line, though they’d remain friends and keep in touch for several years. In an interview in 1980, John reflected on his teenage behavior: “Hitting females is something I’m always ashamed of and still can’t talk about—I’ll have to be a lot older before I can face that in public, about how I treated women as a youngster.”9 Except that he was talking about it, and with the sort of candor customary even when it was to his own detriment. In 1967, John mentioned it within a song lyric and spoke about it to his biographer Hunter Davies. “I was in a blind rage for two years,” he said. “I was either drunk or fighting. There was something the matter with me.”10

This was also, of course, the way it was in many other relationships, and had been for a long time and would be in the future, especially in the north of England. It wasn’t excusable but nor was it unusual, and such attitudes were reinforced constantly in receptive minds by the silver screen. “Not only did we dress like James Dean and walk around like that,” John later remarked, “but we acted out those cinematic charades. The he-man was supposed to smack a girl across the face, make her succumb in tears and then make love. Most of the guys I knew in Liverpool thought that’s how you do it.”11

In terms of dress, John continued to interchange between college scarf and Teddy Boy drape, though being a Ted was always more a state of mind for him.12 The persona remained very much part of his attraction to Paul and George, however—as Paul says, “We looked up to him as a sort of violent Teddy Boy, which was attractive at the time. He got drunk a lot and once he kicked the telephone-box in … [and] what might have been construed as good old-fashioned rudeness I always had to put down to ballsiness.”

—Tune In (Ch. 10, Jan–July 1959)

Based on the accounts of Thelma here and Cynthia elsewhere, both known incidents of John being physically violent with women are single, isolated events. Thelma describes a hair pull and full-on hit (punch) in the neck, which is physically painful to think about, whereas Cynthia describes a slap in the face. In both cases, they feel confident enough to shut it down and walk away, Thelma for good and Cynthia at least making him grovel first (Christmas 1959 card). Domestic violence comes in several forms, some of which do match John’s behavior with Cynthia even if they were common for the time (controlling appearance and activities, possessiveness and paranoia of infidelities, etc.), but neither of these women describe habitual physical violence.

However, this incident does not seem to reflect the guilt with which John talks about it later. Even when put together with Cynthia’s account, which is less than a year later (fall 1959), the level doesn’t seem to match. I notice both incidents would be within the two years after Julia’s death, yet he’s writing about it in 1967 (“I hit my woman”) and still talking about it in 1980. Even 3 months before his death, he was calling himself "a hitter." Either there were more incidents left untold (e.g., Thelma and/or Cynthia are condensing into one where they left, or other women who’ve remained silent) or John’s guilt spun it into more over time. This is notable because there’s not much else he ever seems to publicly regret.

Looking up Lewisohn’s sources, the worst quote from John is actually from Source 11 (the James Dean quote above), a print interview from a dubious author (link in the sources listed below). The author Sandra Shevey has claimed to have spent at least 12 hours interviewing John and Yoko, and while at least one recording of her interview with them is available, I’m skeptical about other quotes in print considering her output. Reading a few pages of her book on John, some parts are so unhinged I wondered why on earth Lewisohn even used anything from her as a source (serious burn book vibes). John has mentioned elsewhere about being influenced by Hollywood’s images of (toxic) masculinity as a teen, but her full quote makes it sound like he was basically raping women all the time. She uses the quote as a springboard to her more outlandish theories (like devoting several pages to the idea that John raped and then murdered Brian over a contract detail?!).

Burn book moments aside, Shevey also gets tons of basic details completely wrong like attributing Get Back’s writing or Bernard Webb’s Woman to John (both are Paul’s) and in general treats Paul as a nonentity in John’s life and work. So I have a hard time trusting anything from her book. However, she is one of the few John bio authors to consider bisexuality (unhinged theories aside) and is questioning the ballad of John&YokoTM in print as early as 1990, perhaps because she spoke with them during a time when the cracks were more visible. So assuming her quotes are accurate and her reading is just wildly off the mark, I think it’s worth mentioning the context of this James Dean quote in her book. It's prefaced with background that may shed light on the case of Thelma Pickles, who had the dubious honor of being John’s first real girlfriend.

Talking in 1972, he's speaking about this in relation to his struggle with accepting Yoko as an equal creative partner on the latest album. There’s a flavor of blaming British society and American culture that sounds very Yoko shaped (he goes on to call British men both effeminate and sadist). However, applying this background to 1958, you can see how a young John would have struggled to apply his relationships with other boys to his first attempt at a relationship with a girl, especially one who was by her own account looking for recognition and belonging with the boys.

Aside from the physical violence, Thelma’s account details the headtrip of John’s verbal violence. When you’re 16, a week of public mockery can feel like a lifetime. Doubly so when it comes from someone you were once close to. Like Pete and Paul, Thelma figures out how to match John’s level and shut him up. Bill Harry also recalls the importance of standing up to John to gain his respect. Thelma has to deal with him like one of the guys, delivering a verbal uppercut that leaves him clocked out and in the sand.

In a way, John’s mockery of Thelma looks like a mirror of the much longer, much more public mockery Paul gets from John 1970-1972. Ram aside, Paul waits to turn the public equivalent on John until 1972—which just so happens to be when John starts to cool his fire toward Paul. Shevey claims to interview John a day in September 1972 and the only recording she’s released is John ruminating about working as a partner with Yoko vs male artists (“It’s a plus, not a minus. The plus is that your best friend, also, can hold you without…I mean, I’m not a homosexual, or we could have had a homosexual relationship, maybe that would have solved it”) and the continued struggle of making this transition. Assuming Paul knew more about John after 13 years than Thelma did in 6 months, I’m left wondering why did Paul wait so long in the 70s? Maybe it’s harder to kick back when you’re feeling down? Or guilty? Maybe smarting from result of the last attempt? Maybe it’s harder to kick back when there’s a mountain more of feelings between you.

After Thelma gives him a taste of his own medicine, they continue to be on speaking terms though the closeness they had was gone. She recalls loaning him art college assignments because he’s in danger of flunking out. John goes on to date Cynthia, and Thelma remembers thinking he’d fancied her given his taunts but sounds a bit dismayed by how he got her to change her entire identity for him (“He got what he wanted”). She recognizes being married to John would be a “gargantuan task” and had no regrets herself.

Lastly, a comment on Lewisohn’s framing here. I think it’s appropriate to mention John’s guilt and the effect of pop culture on the social mores of the time here. But I find it incredibly distasteful that Lewisohn concludes this incident with a quote that suggests Paul liked John violent and hitting women, considering the actual context of the quote.

Here's Paul's words in Many Years From Now that Lewisohn quotes from:

The first sentence of Paul's words on this says it all. This quote is all about the image of the Teddy Boy as a protective measure. Conflating violence against women with fashion is not helpful at all.

This word-twisting feels especially terrible because Paul ends up dating Thelma himself a few years down the line...

All the Beatles were now in settled relationships. Having ended with Dorothy Rhone, Paul played a broad field without hindrance, sparking flames old and new, and he also (from August 1962) found himself a special new “steady.” This was Thelma Pickles—John’s art school lover before he got together with Cynthia. Paul had always liked Thelma, and happened to see her in Liverpool while driving his car—his proud and precious Ford Consul Classic, which he bought new (“on the never-never”) in early August.16 She married, had a baby boy and then separated from her husband. Approaching 21, Thelma lived in a Prince’s Avenue bedsit as a single parent and was trying to resume her art school studies, a talented young woman … and here in her life arrived Paul McCartney.

He was no longer a slightly plump young schoolboy but very much his own person. I only like visual art, I’m not into music, so I had just a vague notion that John and his group were still going. Paul said he’d pick me up later to see them play at the Cavern. It was a jazz club when I’d last been there. It was full of raw energy. Girls were screaming and boys liked them as well. I’d only ever watched Six-Five Special and this was different. I hadn’t believed what Paul said about their increasing fame—being brought up working-class in that era, we were given to believe “our sort” couldn’t become successful.17

—Tune In (Ch. 31, Aug 19–Oct 4 1962)

Her comment on class and success is important to put in context with the rest of her account. Given John's more middle class standing living with Mimi at the time, I’m sure Thelma felt the power differential between them at least the first time she visited Mendips. Notice how sneaky John is to make sure Mimi doesn’t meet her? It mirrors how John only has the band over when Mimi's out of the house; he knows how she will react to him seeing a working-class girl and doesn’t want the trouble. That sticks with a girl, feeling like you’re not worth the trouble. He does end up introducing the much more prim and proper Cynthia to Mimi, and it still goes terribly, but at least he tries, signaling to Cynthia he sees some future with her. That hit in the neck? Sounds a lot more gruesome than a slap in the face. And it's in public, after she turns him down. Despite their shared closeness alone, the power differential in public still reigns supreme. But she knew her limits and stood firm in spite of it all. We only have one picture of her at this time, but it’s a telling one all the same. I look at it and can’t help thinking, oh, I know this girl. Good for her.

Even after Thelma and Paul’s relationship fizzles, they stay friends through other connections. She ends up dating (and later marrying) Mike’s bandmate, Roger McGough. She recalls staying with Roger at Cavendish in the 60s. It’s not clear if she crosses paths with John at this time. Perhaps her presence prompted the guilt we see John express in 67 in Getting Better and interviews with Hunter Davies. I hope she haunted him…even just a bit.

Sources by Chapter

Chapter 9

30 Observer, December 13, 2009.

31 Author interview, September 6, 2010.

Chapter 10

9 Interview by David Sheff, September 24, 1980, for Playboy.

10 Davies, pp56–7. The song lyric: “I used to be cruel to my woman / I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved”—“Getting Better,” 1967.

11 Interview with Sandra Shevey, the Hartford Courant, November 26, 1972.

12 “The Teddy Boy … that was my scene, but it was only a club to belong to at the time”—interview by David Skan, Record Mirror, October 11, 1969.

13 Many Years From Now, pp49/33.

Chapter 31

16 Author interview, May 2, 1991.

17 Author interview, September 6, 2010, and e-mails August 29, 2010, and February 28, 2012.

#thelma pickles #the only girl on record that was with both john and paul #poor girl #beatle girlfriends #understanding john #teddy or not #my text #reading tune in #her account touches on several bits i keep coming back to #i think the most telling parts about thelma’s story are the trauma bonds that start the relationship #and the lies he spouts at the end after she wounds his ego #okay and 50s schools really failed kids by not giving them medically accurate sex ed #the pill is two years away from release at this point but even then youd need disposal income for it #five mile run euphemism fits in well with his skywriting euphemisms #wordplay #clearly john had an exhibitionist kink #no one ever told teen john your kink isnt your partners kink and thats ok #class and the beatles #long post #women and the beatles #grief #mothers and sons #mark lewisohn #sandra shevey #you know what sends me into a blind rage men calling women ‘females’ at least johns comment is 40 years old what’s marks excuse #more about shevey later bc seriously wtf

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thebestestwinner · 11 months

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The Best Best Original Screenplay Tournament, Round 3/Elite 8

Just like the upcoming Tonys will be, our little bracket isn't scripted (ain't no scabs here!). But we're still offering plenty of drama, like Dog Day Afternoon's upset over top-seed Pulp Fiction, or The Usual Suspects pulling ahead of Everything Everywhere All At Once in a tight contest!

What will happen in Round 3? Your votes decide!

All polls live for one week. Bracket seeded by IMDb rating.

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andrewknightley · 5 months

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I have watched 37 movies from 2023 and there was great comedies, horror and action movies as comedy/horror/action BUT i have not seen any movie this year that blowed my mind like some from 2022 like Banshees of Inisherin, Pearl, Nope, Huesera, Puss in Boots the last wish, RRR or Everything Everywhere All at Once

#yes i am putting puss in boots between those.it was that good #that it blows your mind how well crafted it is #we got spiderverse 2 this year but is unfinished and just part 1 so is Not The Same in the Super Well Crafted Animation Movie #2022 just had such good movies....#but gosh this year we got amazing comedies like the blackening or joy ride #or bottoms!!!#but i missed having my mind blow #i had my mind blow with older movies this year tho and by that i mean thelma and louise #and ginger snaps #sweet charity !!!#dirty dancing....ah so much good movies #as u can see tho Blow My Mind is like very subjetive so i dont even know if i can ask people for 2023 recs of those #in case i missed a very good movie #dead reckoning gave me brainrot but that doesnt count is not that the movie is mind blowing is that I Am Unwell. About Benji.#anyways. movie talk i love movies #albossharuland talk #if u have read all the tags tell me if u watched any 2023 movie that blowed YOUR mind

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onlyonekenobi · 1 year

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dean is absolutely the kind of delusional criminal loverboy who would want to take a "cute" photo of his and cas's matching ankle monitors

#c'mon babe we're like bonnie and clyde #Dean.#thelma and louise!#Those people all DIED Dean.#well. we've both died.#-_-

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itwoodbeprefect · 2 years

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at this point my movie watching process very much includes checking the release year of any film at least twice to see at which point it stops being an anachronism if i have my various historical (read pre-2000s) blorbos have a discussion about homoerotic subtext in it

#if i want hutch to think about the verdict if i want starsky to reference top gun. god if i want them to watch thelma & louise #do i age them up just to match the release date? do i pretend time doesn't exist? do i act as if the movie existed in the 70s?#and if i did wouldn't that erase a crucial bit of historical context around the thing getting to be made in the first place?#brb making starsky happen upon a time machine in aunt rosie's attic to fix all of these problems in one swoop #how on earth could starsky and hutch possibly know that the ocean's trilogy / brokeback mountain / teen vampire movie twilight exists?#well you see it’s very simple. they have a time travel teddy bear that they use only to experience cinema from the future #*

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foxsoulcourt · 2 years

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click here to weep again with me

#well damn #now i’m sniffling #first tiktok when i logged on #here’s my heart #james bond #madeleine swann #007 #no time to time #nttd #y’know the one where bond grows + then he dies #like thelma + louise #daniel craig #lèa seydoux

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ritadcsc · 1 year

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Quando você se preocupa, está dizendo: 'Eu não confio em ti, Deus'. Então, ore em vez de se preocupar.

Thelma Wells

#Thelma Wells #devocional #devocional para mulheres #ansiedade #entregue suas preocupações à Deus #God #Deus #Jesus #Espírito Santo #Cristo #cristã #cristão #cristianismo #fé #religião #ritadcsc #livro #frase de livro

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quarterprioritymidnight · 5 months

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What’s your favorite song from each album?

hello :) and omg what a difficult question. ok not from extended versions just to make it easier probably bad blood - weight of living pt. 2, wild world - blame (or sometimes warmth), doom days - those nights and gmtf - maybe stay awake? honestly it changes all the time

#ask #anon #spotify stats screaming at me rn for not picking thelma + louise like let me just ignore the data for a min #i feel like these are all really basic choices but hey ho lol #picking a fave from doom days was actually painful #like the reason its my fave album is bc all the songs feel like they go so well together like you can't make me tear her up like that

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2sw · 6 months

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"What do you care, you don’t even like scary movies." "Well, yeah Dean, our life is a scary movie."

HALLOWEEN 2023 🎃 Sam Winchester × Horror Films 🎃

Evil Dead Rise (2023) // Bloodlust (S2E03) Let the Right One In (2008) // The Rapture (S4E20) Doctor Sleep (2019) // When the Levee Breaks (S4E21) Nope (2022) // Long-Distance Call (S3E14) Suspiria (1977) // Free to Be You and Me (S5E03) Ready or Not (2019) // Fallen Idols (S5E05) Carrie (1976) // American Nightmare (S12E04) Raw (2016) // Caged Heat (S6E10) The VVitch (2015) // Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire (S11E01) A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984) // Trial and Error (S8E14) Thelma (2017) // Meet the New Boss (S7E01) The Shining (1980) // Soul Survivor (S10E03) Scream 3 (2000) // Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire (S11E01) Us (2019) // The Man Who Knew Too Much (S6E22) The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974) // Inherit the Earth (S15E19) You're Next (2011) // Mint Condition (S14E04)

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deanwinchestergf · 6 months

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and why would an angel rescue me from hell? good things do happen dean. not in my experience. i'm not here to perch on your shoulder. i was getting too close to the humans in my charge. you. to everything there is a season. you made an exception for me. you're different. for what's worth, i would give anything not to have you do this. i learned my lesson while i was away, dean. i serve heaven, i don't serve men and i certainly don't serve you. but you guys aren't supposed to be there, you're not in this story. yeah, well, we're making it up as we go. i'm hunted, i rebelled and i did it all, all of it, for you. so what i'm thelma and you're louise and we're just gonna hold hands and sail off this cliff together? i need your help because you're the only one who'll help me. that's a pretty nice timing, cas. we had an appointment. what happened to you cas? you used to be human, or at least like one. but cas, you'll call right? if you get into real trouble? this is cas, guys. he has gone to the mat cut and bleeding for us so many freaking times, don't we owe him the benefit of the doubt at least? it sounds so simple when you say it like that, where were you when i needed to hear it? i was there, where were you? i'm doing this for you, dean. i'm doing this because of you. but we were family once, i would've died for you, i almost did a few times. i've lost lisa, i've lost ben and now i've lost sam. don't make me lose you too. cas, you child, why didn't you listen to me. you used to fight together, bestest of friends, actually. if you remember, then you know you did the best you could at the time. the very touch of you corrupts. when castiel first laid a hand on you in hell he was lost. i'd rather have you, cursed or not. well, i'll go with you. i prayed to you cas, every night. cas, we're getting out of here, we're going home. i mean you kept saying you didn't think it would work, did you not trust me? cas, it's me. we need you, i need you. i won't hurt dean. cause you didn't trust me? you didn't trust me. please, man, i need you here. nobody wants him here more than i do. you gave us an order, castiel, and we gave you our trust. don't lose it over one man. you really believe we three will be enough? we always have been. his true weakness is revealed. you draped yourself with the flag of heaven but ultimately, it was all about saving one human. i'm glad you're here, man. how are you, dean? and then you'll kill the angel, castiel. now that one, that i suspect would hurt something awful. and when you turn, everyone you know, everyone you love, they could be long dead. everyone except me. i'm not gonna send lucifer into battle inside cas, what if he doesn't make it? it's not an it, sam. it's cas. but you're always there, you know? i could go with you. you mean too much to me, to everything. i'm gonna cure you of your human weakness, same way i cured my own. it's a gift, you keep those. you mean we? yes, dumbass, we. we lost everything and now you're gonna bring him back. we got cas back, that's a pretty damn big win. just don't get dead again. it's good to hear your voice. so this is goodbye? but i swear if he did something to her, if she's- then you're dead to me. either get on board or walk away. i don't know what's god and what isn't, and it's driving me crazy. dean, you asked what about all of this is real. we are. you used trust me, give me the benefit of the doubt, now you can barely look at me. i think it's time for me to move on. you didn't deserve that. since when do we get what we deserve? maybe if you didn't just up and leave us. i left but you didn't stop me. i should've stopped you. you're my best friend but i just let you go. and i forgive you, of course i forgive you. i'm sorry it took me so long, i'm sorry it took me til now to say it. you did it cas. okay, cas, i need to say something. you don't have to say it, i heard your prayer. well, here's to being right. you know what every other version of you did after gripping him tight and raising him from perdition? they did what they were told, but not you.

#destiel #paula.txt

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recycledmoviecostumes · 4 months

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Edith Head designed this blue gown, accented with open vertical stitching, for Barbara Stanwyck to wear in the 1949 film The File on Thelma Jordan. The piece was seen again a few years later in the 1952 film Something to Live For, where Teresa Wright wore it as Edna Miller.

The costume went up for auction at Bonhams in 2019. The auction description describes the dress as follows:

Paramount Pictures, 1950. Designed by Edith Head. Blue-gray linen cap-sleeved day dress with a vertical design of cream-colored stitching from top to bottom, with a flared skirt and built-in cream-colored belt, bearing an interior blue-lettered “Paramount” label inscribed, “Teresa Wright” in black ink. Universally beloved Barbara Stanwyck is believably evil in this underrated film noir directed by Robert Siodmak in which she plays Wendell Corey for a fool. Edith Head, well known for reusing costumes, used this dress two years later for Teresa Wright in Something to Live For (1952) in which she plays an alcoholic. Both actresses wore the dress in their respective films as well as in publicity portraits. Accompanied by 2 publicity stills and a color lithograph of Stanwyck wearing the dress.

Costume Credit: Veryfancydoilies

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#barbara stanwyck #the file on thelma jordan #teresawright #something to live for #edith head

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hotvintagepoll · 2 months

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Propaganda

Judy Garland (Meet Me In St. Louis, A Star is Born, Summer Stock)— Judy is the GOAT when it comes to classic movie musicals. The voice of an angel who deserved so much better than she got. She can sing she can dance she can act she's a triple threat. Though she had a turbulent personal life (her treatment as a child star by the studio system makes me mad as hell like Louis b Mayer fight me ((she was made to believe that she was physically unattractive by the constant criticism of film executives who made her feel ugly and who manipulated her onscreen appearance by capping her teeth and using discs in her nose to change its shape and Mayer called her "my little hunchback" like imagine hearing that as a child and not having damage)) she always goddamn delivered on screen and in any performance she gave. She began in vaudeville performing with her sisters and was signed to MGM at 13. Starting out in supporting parts especially paired with mickey Rooney in a bunch of films (she's the best part tbh) she eventually transferred to the lead role. She is best known for her starring role in movie musicals like the iconic Wizard of Oz (somewhere over the rainbow still hits hard and is ranked the top film song of all time), meet me in St. Louis (Judy singing have your self a merry little Christmas brings tears to the eyes she is that powerful), the Harvey girls (she looks like a technicolor dream and sings a catchy af song about trains), Easter parade ( dancing and singing with Fred Astaire), for me and my gal, the pirate, and summer stock ( with pal Gene Kelly who she helped when he was starting out and he helped her when she was struggling). But she also does non- singing just as well like the clock ( her first movie where she sings no songs and is an underrated ww2 era romance), her Oscar nominated a star is born ( like the man that got away she put her whole soul in that and I have beef with the fact she lost to grace kelly ((whom I love but like still not even her best work)), and judgement at Nuremberg (a courtroom drama about the nazi war criminal trials). Outside of film she made concert appearances to record-breaking audiences, released 8 studio albums, and had her own Emmy-nominated tv series. She was the youngest (39) and first female recipient of the Cecil B DeMille award for lifetime achievement in the film industry. Girl was a lifelong democrat and was a financial and moral supporter of many causes including the civil rights movement (she was at the March on Washington and held a press conference to protest the 16th street Baptist church bombings). She was a friend of the Kennedy family and would call jfk weekly often ending the calls by singing the first few lines of somewhere over the rainbow (she thought of them as Gemini twins).She was a member of the committee for the first amendment which was formed in response to the HUAC investigations. Though she died far too young and tragically she remains an icon for her work and her life. As a girl who didn't feel like i was as pretty as everyone else I have always felt a connection to Judy and I just really love her.

Patsy Kelly (The Countess of Monte Cristo, Merrily We Live, Topper Returns)—patsy kelly was a character actress best known for her brash wisecracking best friend roles, first appearing in a series of comedy shorts with thelma todd and then in a number of feature films. she was openly gay (lovers included tallulah bankhead), even candidly referring to herself as a dyke to the press on occasion and declaring she didn't intend to marry.

This is round 1 of the tournament. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. Please reblog with further support of your beloved hot sexy vintage woman.

[additional propaganda submitted under the cut.]

Patsy Kelly:

Oh, that wry little smile! She could sing. She could dance. She could do comedy and drama. Her mother enrolled her in dancing school to distract her from playing baseball and trying to become a firefighter. At the height of her career, she burned the whole thing down (heh) by answering a reporter's softball question about why she never married with "Because I'm a dyke." She became Tallulah Bankhead's "private secretary" and by the 1960s, she was once again a prominent character actress. Remember Laura-Louise in "Rosemary's Baby"?

Judy Garland:

Judy's voice alone qualifies her for at least top ten hottest HOT VINTAGE MOVIE WOMEN. She was a truly incredible swing singer, with a stunning voice on top of her technique. Her short dark hair looked incredible in just about any style. Have I mentioned her swagger? I can’t do it justice with words. She had swagger. She was funny as hell, and clever too. Incredibly charming and cool. I adore her.

Her eyes, her voice have bewitched me

I mean how can you beat the one and only Judy? She's beautiful, her smile is contagious, the way she sings with her whole body. You can't help but love her.

youtube

Beautiful woman, love her singing voice. And she can do everything between happy or silly and angry or heartbroken

#patsy kelly #judy garland #hotvintagepoll #ladies 1 #fuck that old woman

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misguidedasgardian · 1 year

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The Winter Sun (16)

16. The God's wood

MASTERLIST

Summary: A child born in Winter was a good omen

Pairing: Cregan Stark x Fem!Targaryen Reader

Warnings: Cursing, medieval and asoiaf customs, AGE GAP, Cregan is 12 years OLDER than reader), arranged marriage, birth of a baby (nothing described), fluff, talk about death and miscarriages, talk about childbirth, and death in childbirth, breastfeeding, might miss some warnings

+18, MINORS DNI

Wordcount: 3.3 k

Notes: I don’t really like how I name the baby BUT that is canon! Cregan’s first child is name like that so… anyways IT'S HAPPENNING PEOPLE THIS IS NOT A DRILL I REPEAT THIS IS NOT A DRILL

Cregan was stunned… he couldn’t find you anywhere, he was also becoming scared, but the alarms didn’t go off so he doubted something bad had befell you. He looked for you in the battlements, and nothing, you were not in your rooms, not in the library, nor in the Kitchens, not the room that had turned into yours and Sara’s sewing room, and you were not with the Maester. He finally had the courage to scout the Godswood, but you weren’t that either.

So he started to ask around if people had seen you, and the path took him to the kitchens again.

“Yes, she and Sara are down the earth, in the hot springs”, said Thelma, as she whisked the batter for a pie Sara had requested of her. Cregan looked at the woman incredulously

“Couldn’t you just tell me that earlier?”, he asked, and she looked at him and chuckled

“Made you look!”, she teased, and he chuckled darkly, and left the kitchens

So you where in the Hotsprings below the castle

He was not surprised, but he tried to suppress his anger, those hot springs had a very high temperature, specially in your state, but he had to remind himself that one, Targaryens did prefer the heat, it had been proven by maesters that you had a higher tolerances for higher temperatures than normal people, and two, that you had good instincts you had learned to follow, so if you were in the Hot Springs, it meant you really felt the need to go, that you really believe it could do you good.

He had to dispose of his cape, his vest and his boots before he went down the stairs, because he was already sweating, the steam that came from down below was hitting him strongly.

The set of old stone stairs opened to a wide cave, that looked like a pavilion, a huge bath house for the natural hot springs that had been here since the beginning of time, and the reason Winterfell was built where it was

You were lying down in the edge of the hot pool, on your side, your big belly between your hugging arms, Sara was by your side, half of her body in the waters, you were both dressed in short light dresses, that were completely soaked. You were conversing happily, giggling like two little girls, Cregan stopped on his tracks and just watched the scene, amused.

How did he get so lucky?

Fate had brought his sister to Winterfell’s doors, and he loved her dearly, a dragon had brought you to Winterfell’s gates… you both, you three… were everything to him

“Cregan!”, greeted Sara, you turned around with a smile on your face

“My love”

“Hello you two, can I join you?”

“Well of course!”, you said, patting the palace right by your side, where he took a seat, placing his feet under the hot, almost boiling water.

But it was relaxing nonetheless once you get used to it.

You went into the waters and floated around happily Cregan soon joined you, taking you in his arms

“this is the only place that gives me comfort”, you whined, smiling, “I feel so heavy all the time, floating around soothes me”

“I understand that”, he kissed your wet temple, as you floated around happily

“I don’t understand why we don’t come to this place more often”, muttered Sara with a shy smile, “it is so relaxing”

“It is”, said Cregan

“Agreed”, you giggled, “if it was enough my dragon could be happy here”

“Speaking of dragons, how is Dragonstone?”, she asked you both

“It is one of the greatest things I have ever seen”, Cregan muttered, “The whole island rests on Dragon glass, and the castle itself seems to be carved right off the stone, dragons sculpted everywhere, a great fortress, it is breathtaking”

“Did you see the dragons?”, she asked, amazed

“Only flying from afar”, he said, “it is very dangerous to get close to them”, you added

“One day we will take you”, promised Cregan, and you nodded enthusiastically

Perhaps, when Rhaenyra is Queen, you could ask her to proclaim Sara legitimate, you haven't spoken about it with Cregan or Sara, but it is something you wanted so badly for her. Perhaps when it’s done…

“When winter is over, you could travel through the kingdoms on dragonback!”, you said happily

“You know Vhaelar actually likes me!”, Sara offered, “Well, she hasn't thrown fire at me, so I’m guessing it’s a good sign!”, she giggled

“That is indeed a good beginning”, you giggled

You spend the rest of the afternoon in the Hot Springs, until Cregan dragged you both out, saying it was too much, your baby moved around in your belly, restless. So Cregan took you to the kitchens, to feed you both.

The pie Thelma had cooked for you was ready, so you enjoyed it together in the great hall

“I have to go to the woods to hunt”, Cregan told you, “a group of stags had been spotted near the river, It would be good to have some extra meat if needed”, he explained

“I wish you luck husband”, you whispered with a shy smile

“It shouldn’t be more than a couple of days”, he said simply, grabbing your hand over the table

Cregan left the very next morning and came back in two days, as promised, tired and freezing, but with fresh meat to eat.

You celebrated with roast deer those coming days.

So you kept navigating through winter, Cregan was exchanging letters with his friend Ben, of how much he wanted to see him, you haven{t met him yet, but Cregan had told you many stories about him, how he was his closest friend, he had even send you a present for your unborn child, and you couldn’t wait to meet him.

You also couldn’t wait to meet your child, you were growing heavier by the day, so uncomfortable, your feet hurt at the end of each day, your belly button had begun to pop, and according to the servants and the midwife it was a sign that the birth was near. And you were happy for it.

Cregan had been occupied most day, making preparation, he covered every window in your rooms with a plank of wood and furs except for one, so you could still watch over Winter’s Town

You were over a moon shy of finally having him in your arms.

It was the middle of the morning and still, there was darkness everywhere. The presence of the Lord of Winterfell was required in Winter’s Town, a problem between lords, and cattle to take meat, so he had to go to settle the quarrel. It was easily resolved by throwing a few coins at the problem.

The snow and cold had taken hold of his body, but still, you were nearing the end of the pregnancy, so the freezing cold did not deter Cregan, who had grabbed an oil lamp and ventured himself deep in the Godswood, with the Heart tree being the only destiny in his mind.

With the ghostly face in front of him, he fell to his knees and placed his hands together in prayer. And with one last look towards that carved face, he closed his eyes in concentration.

“Gods”, he called, “Gods of the streams, the forests, the rocks, Gods of beasts, of men, of children, I beseech you”, he spoke with a trembling voice, begging, “You who whisper when the winds blows and when the birds sing, all of you who linger in the winter, who bring life in the midst of death…”, he opened his eyes again, looking at those eyes who were looking right back at him, “I beg of you, protect my wife”, he said gently, “protect her and my unborn child, let her live to see our baby grow big and strong, she is a good and kind woman, please protect her….”

Only silence was his answer, but he felt at peace when he heard the wind blows through the trees

After everything he had lived through and everyone he lost he found himself constantly feeling this horrible sensation, of that the same fate as his first two wives might befall you, his young wife and mother to their unborn child.

And he couldn’t bear it, not again, if he loses you, he might as well die right by your side, he was going to do everything in his power to prevent it

But there was this moment where he felt content, even if he followed the Old Gods and their traditions, he wasn’t quite devote, so he really hoped his prayers were answered, and for a second he believed they were, he heard the rustling of the leaves, a soft whisper in the air, and far, far away, the howling of Autumn deep in the Wolf’s wood

It was so peaceful

“CREGAN!”, and now the screech of his sister, “CREGAN!”, She called again and he turned, alarmed, he could not see her, so he stood up, grabbing the lamp and he started running towards the entrance of the God’s Wood

“WHAT IS HAPPENING?”, he asked, alarmed

“You fool! Where were you? I have been looking for you everywhere!”, she cried, grabbing into his arms, “it’s time! She is in labor! she had been for hours!”, she said with a wide smile

“I am going to be a father?”, he asked, his eyes shiny, and Sara nodded enthusiastically

“YES! NOW GO YOU IDIOT!”, he passed by her running, dropping the lamp that broke against the ground, but he couldn’t care less

He was going to be a father!

He thought fleetingly that he had never run so fast in his life, everything around him going by in a blur. He almost jumped the short steps towards the entrance of the castle and he shoved every person on his way screaming how sorry he was, he found the stairs and ran even faster, when he finally reached the last floor of the castle, where his rooms were, he heard your screams. They were like screams of someone fighting for their life, screams of war and battle… He stopped in his tracks, scared out of his mind, not wanting to go in.

What if something went badly?

What if you perished afterwards?

What if his babe…?, he didn’t even want to think about it.

And then, there was calm, silence, you had stopped your screams, and he decided, really, he didn’t decide anything, his feet took him to venture inside the room, he ran, opened the door widely, just as the cries of his first born child reached his ears.

He didn’t realize he was holding his breath, not until he let out all the air in his lungs, and you found his eyes and you smiled, widely, you were sweaty, bloody, messy, and you never looked more beautiful

“It’s a boy!”, screamed the midwife, with a crying, bloodied bundle in her arms

“Cregan!”, you called, and he ran to your side

“I was not here!”, he lamented, kissing your face, your sweaty forehead, taking your hands in his, “my love I’m so sorry!”, he cried

“It was so fast!”, you chuckled tiredly, “it came very quickly, you do not need to be sorry”

“Two pushes and he was out my lord!”, cheered a maid that had helped you through the whole delivery

“Here he is!”, the midwife said, “cleaned and ready to meet his parents! a healthy baby boy”, your babe was crying softly, his little hands above the fabrics searching for something, or someone.

She placed it gently in your arms, and you looked down at his little reddened face, you accommodated him against your chest, and his cries stopped, he tried to open his eyes but he barely could, he was so small, and chubby, his hair dark just like his father’s

Cregan fell to his knees by your side, to look at him, you didn’t even realize you were crying happy tears, relieved tears

“Our baby!”, he cried as well, placing hand on it’s head, so small in comparison, “look at him”, he said, enamored, “he is so perfect”, he whispered

“He is kind of small isn’t he?”, you asked, “it’s a little red…”, you were not quite convinced, and you were weary and scared, if something was wrong you wouldn’t know how to tell

“It is normal my lady”, giggled the midwife, “I shall fetch the maester, to have a look at him”, you nodded. “You did not had any reapings, so you should have make a quick recovery, no blood was lost, either way, I will fetch the maester”

You look at your son and you couldn’t believe you had him in your arms, it felt surreal, you knew why they called them “bundles of joy”, you felt so happy, a warmth in your chest that took a hold on you whole, you felt joyous, you felt like you could explode with love for this little person that you held so comfortably against you, like he belonged there, like he was created to fit perfectly in your arms and against you chest. You whined in happiness, still happy tears rolled down your eyes

You looked up at Cregan and he was looking down at you with suck love and wonder in his gray eyes like you had never seen before

“Would you like to hold him?”, you asked Cregan, and he nodded. You passed on the baby to him, and he held it in his arms carefully. Once he was safe in his father’s arms, the maids and the midwife cleaned you, took the afterbirth with them, and left you with cleaned sheets, and then they left.

“We must tell the happy news to everyone!”, one said, and the left you in the comfort of your rooms

Your still nameless child had fallen asleep in Cregan’s arms, and you sighed, tired. Childbirth brought you a pain you had never felt before, a crippling pain, and then when you finally expelled it from your body you felt an incredible relief, a soothing sensation washing over you, but now, that adrenaline has passed, the pain has returned, and also, you felt so tired…

“How are you feeling my love?”, he asked softly

“I feel like I’ve been trampled by a herd of wild horses”, you said with a tired smile, “but I will be alright”

“If something happens to you I swear…” he sighed heavily against your temple, “I’ll die right with you”

“I’m fine”, you assured him, and he smiled, “we have to name our child”, you said with a tired smile.

He laid down by your side, your sleeping baby in his arms, you both looked at him

“How shall we name him?”, he asked then

“Should we name him like your father?”, you asked, “Rickon?”, he looked at you wide eyed

“Would you like that? Name him as my father?”

“I love that name”, you whispered. “It’s a northmen name”, you said happily, so he nodded

“Then it’s Rickon Stark”, he said

The maester showed up shortly after, with a shy smile. He entered the room after knocking

“The old gods had blessed you, my lord!”, he said, “they brought you a son!”

“They did”, he said gently

“Would you let me examine him?”, you begrudgingly agreed and let him take Rickon, he placed him gently at the foot of the bed and he undressed him, his little chubby arms and legs moved desperately

“It’s cold!”, you complained, but Cregan only chuckled

“10 toes”, the old man said, tickling his small feet, “10 fingers”, he said then, and he touched him in his belly, he grabbed his arms gently, and his legs, he examined him, then he placed his finger in front of his little face and move it around, he hummed, contented, “he has your eyes princess”, he said, then looking at you, “the eyes of old Valyria”, you sighed happily, “he is a healthy baby boy”, he placed him back into your arms, covered in a small fox fur

“You can tell the people of Winter’s town”, Cregan said, proud, “Winterfell has it’s heir, is a boy named Rickon, like my father before me”

“A strong winter child”, he said, “the people will be happy”, he gave you sips of milk of the poppy and then he left your small family again

“Are you proud?”, you asked, your eyes filled with hope and wonder

“Proud?”, he asked, raising his gaze from the babe in his arms to look at you

“I want you to be proud of me, and our little family”, you explained gently

“I’m not only proud, but I’m possibly the happiest men on the world right now”, he said, “look at our child, look at what you give to me”, he said gently, “I love you, and I couldn’t be prouder”

With that in mind you dozed off, thanks to the milk of the poppy, and relying on Cregan’s body for support

“We have a big bed wife, one day we will be all squeezed up with all the children we are going to have”, you heard faintly before falling asleep.

You woke up a couple of hours later, with the cries of RIckon, you jumped out of bed to find him crying in Cregan’s armas, who looked kind of desperate and once you were awake, he looked guilty for awakening you

“I think he might be hungry”, you whispered. The midwife had come close to you the last moon, to talk to you about this kind of thing, cares for your babe, you had insist you wanted to breastfeed him yourself, you reached at Cregan and with a wide smile, he placed Rickon back into your arms

“There you are little one”, you greeted gently, you released one of your breasts from your night shirt, and palace him near your nipple, he latched on immediately, and it tickle you when he started to suck, it felt so strange

Cregan held you in his arms as you fed Rickon, dropping comfort kisses on your shoulder, and he caressed your arms.

There was no need for words, you only shared this intimate moment, with your newborn in your arms, and your husband by your side.

Rickon fell asleep soon after, and you giggled, Cregan grabbed him and placed him in the crib that you had placed specially for this moment, a beautiful wooden crib, carves with beautiful Northerner designs, sent by one of Cregan’s closest friends, Ben Tallhart, Lord of Torrhen’s square.

He look through the window and gasped in surprise, he then looked back at you

“Look” he said softly, you reached for him and he helped you raise from the bed with difficulty, and then walk towards the window with a view of winter’s town, you gasped, amazed, all around town big torches had been lit up, pires all around, it looked like the town itself was aflame, but the reflection of the snow made it wonderful, “do you know what it is?”, he said, amazed, “the people of the town lit fires in your honor, their fire lady, in celebration of the birth of our son”, he said proudly

“Really?”, you asked, tears in your eyes

“Really”, he assured you, he hugged you kissing the top of your head, “thank you my love”

“For what?”, you giggled

“For everything”, he said, kissing the side of your face

. . .

What you did not know is that as your baby boy drew his first breath, King Viserys, in King’s landing, drew his last.

More notes!: I wanted to make the birth swift and quickly... because she will have more children and just didn't want to make it very dramatic...

ANYWAYS como se dice en espanol... ya va llegando gente al baile! hahaha

Taglist! ❤️

@severewobblerlightdragonn @missusnoraora @stargaryenx @poppyreaderer @chainsawsangel @court-jester-stuffster-stuff @batprincess1013 @eddiepickerker

@lyannesworldrld @arujee @kamisunshine @mss-nthng @partypoison00 @grimistangel @elleclairez @may-machin @prettykinkysoul @justagurlwithships @champomiel

@laura-naruto-fan1998 @zoleea-exultant @devotedlythoughtfulanchor @zoleea-exultant @llleon666 @dark-night-sky-99 @bitchigoteverythingissues @harrypotteranna23-blog@esposadomd @ajanauia @phantomtea19 @let-love-bleeds-red @kishie8 @dreamingofyourmoons @esposadomd @sandronebabyy @kemillyfreitas @trifoliumviridi @dreamingofyourmoons @darling-jace @biblichorr

#misguidedwinter #cregan #cregan stark x reader #cregan x reader #cregan stark #hbo house of the dragon #house of the dragon #house targaryen #house stark #targaryen!reader #targaryen!oc

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