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galahadenough · 3 years

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I finally put together a review of Loki (TV Series). I've always been a huge Marvel fan, a huge MCU fan, but this show was horrific to me. Especially since I saw the show through to the end, I wanted to write a review for the main reviewing websites. I want this side to be heard. All it took was an immense amount of rage to get me to write reviews!

I’m planning on posting it on imdb, Rotten Tomatoes, and google reviews. So far I’ve gotten errors and issues with RT and google, and I’m hoping it doesn’t get lost on imdb. Any other places to leave reviews?

It took me a while to write this. I had to calm down a lot to make it coherent. Then I had to figure out how to condense it. I felt like a review should be my main points, but it took a lot of editing to get it down this much. (Then I had to make an edited version because google has much smaller word limits).

Thanks a lot @iamnmbr3. Your blog was the first one I found on the topic and it was a huge help. The show felt off from the first episode, but I couldn’t figure out why. Your analysis on the show really helped me to verbalize what I was feeling.

Review (except shorter on google):

As a huge MCU fan, I found the show to be intolerable. The plot was slow with way too much filler for the length of the show, and much of the filler felt purposeless. They could have deleted entire scenes or plot points without changing much if any of the story. The creators deliberately made the aesthetic average and mundane, which didn’t pair well with the underwhelming plot. The show relied heavily on slapstick humor, almost all of which was directed at the title character in a manner that encouraged laughter at his pain and stupidity. It would have been better suited for a cartoon, but it would be a cruel cartoon.

The TVA was presented as the better of two evils despite it being a totalitarian organization utilizing genocide and torture, both physical and mental. It felt very reminiscent of the book 1984 with the Thought Police, but the TVA was never truly represented as evil. Not one character opposed them as a hero or from a moral standpoint. All opposition came from a personal or self-serving motive. I’m not wanting every character to be brilliantly moralistic. That would be boring. But you don’t set up an organization like the TVA and say that they are providing a good and needed service, which was the idea the series was based on and ended on.

Mobius has a personality that is very easy to like, but he is very much complicit with the TVA. He happily 'does his job' of genocide and torture. He is Loki's captor, but we are informed he is his friend. When he isn't actively using physical or mental manipulation and torture, he is deriding and mocking him. There was nothing to indicate that they were friends outside of being told that is true. Mobius was never used as a villain by the show despite him fitting the mold well, but he also never has a redemption arc that would have made him a good hero. His reason for working against the TVA is because they lied to him, not because there is any moral reason. His change in alliances happened without much buildup, no gradual discovery throughout the series.

Sylvie felt like a caricature of a character, with very little to her personality other than grit. I was very bored with her. She was a tough, strong, and perfect character that lacked any other depth or nuance. She was called “terrifying” for being female, which felt horrifyingly sexist. She was yet another source of derision and mocking towards Loki.

Loki, the character, was very poorly written. He has always had a great deal of emotional depth that makes him interesting. He was acted with a range from extreme subtlety to riveting explosions of emotion in previous movies. His past is filled with good and bad choices, made with good and bad intentions. He was the villain who tried to be a hero and the hero who tried to be a villain. They took all that away and made him a side character in his own show who had little to no effect on the plot.

For abilities, he lacked his usual physical fighting prowess. He did very little magic, seeming awed when others used magic. His personality and mannerisms changed drastically. His gestures and expressions in this show were over the top and felt clownish, especially for a character that is known for his subtlety. He felt hyperactive and painfully eager to please everyone. His character is known for his manipulations, but his method of 'manipulation' here is to inform others that he is 'ten steps ahead' of them and is going to trick them. I don’t think that’s a good method of manipulation? Plus, the only effect he had on the plot was to slow down the other characters through his bumbling failures.

In addition, Loki was almost always the target of cruelty. This entire show felt like it was made to mock this character. They used every opportunity to tell us, and Loki, how terrible Loki is. How he is irredeemable and incapable of change. That he is a narcissist, which is inaccurate, and that any Loki is inherently untrustworthy. From birth, I suppose. Physical attacks, such as the slow-motion punch and the time loop where he was repeatedly kicked in the crotch, made me cringe. This show encouraged the enjoyment of cruelty.

As a last point, the show used the idea of representation to draw in viewers while avoiding having actual representation. The show was lauded as being good for bisexual and genderfluid representation. From what I’ve heard, the genderfluid representation was a mark on Loki’s paperwork, which you would need to pause at just the right moment to see. Plus, that makes the “terror” at a female Loki make even less sense. The bisexual representation was shown through a single word, and the character was only shown to be so when they made an entire show to mock and belittle him. That is not good representation.

I was very excited for this show, as well as for the next phase of the MCU. This has left me very disappointed and disheartened. I may not be entirely finished with the MCU, but this is the first part of the series that has killed my excitement for future releases. I get a sinking feeling when I hear about future projects now. I have enjoyed debating creative choices before, but this is not simply creative choices. It is too much cruelty, combined with poor writing and a lack of continuity.

#loki tv #loki #loki series negativity #loki series #mcu #mcu critical #review

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iamanartichoke · 3 years

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Why would Loki believe what Mobius tells or shows him? Frigga's death-film could be faked, Loki's responsibility for it might false, saying he always fails and causes death etc. ... where's the proof? Yes, the segments were selected to manipulate his emotions and align him with the TVA, and there's self-loathing, but he's also supposed to be smart and familiar with how lies work. Maybe he's playing along to escape and do what every Loki who ever existed and created a variant did: what he wants.

[please blacklist spoiler tags: #loki tv series spoilers, #loki series spoilers, #loki spoilers]

Well, here's the thing.

(under the cut for spoilers + length)

Objectively, I agree with you - that is, I fully recognize and agree with the characterization of Loki being intelligent and also manipulative (and therefore more than familiar with the art of lying), and I agree that it would be really, really hard to manipulate Loki without him realizing what you're doing and figuring out how to counter it and manipulate you in return (and you won't figure it out as quickly).

However. I don't think Loki is impossible to manipulate, or that his intelligence and innate capacity to lie (often and well) mean that he's immune to falling prey to someone else's schemes, when those schemes are rooted in/relying on all of the rawest vulnerabilities that Loki, as a person, possesses.

Loki's tragic flaw (or one of them, in my opinion) is that his emotions can and often do get the better of him because they are the result of how thoroughly and bone-deeply he hates himself. In Thor 2011, for example, Loki's initial plan evolves from trying to delay Thor's coronation into trying to simultaneously destroy Asgard's greatest enemy (and, presumably, destroy the monster within himself) and trying to prove his worth as a prince and a son to Odin. Were his plan to succeed, the only thing he would ultimately gain is validation that he has equal value to Thor. (Certainly he knows that Odin will wake up and Thor will eventually return; like, there are no long-term goals for keeping the throne here.)

Point being, everything he's orchestrating becomes motivated by emotion over logic and, ultimately, he doesn't really lose so much as he gives up because Odin rejects his plan - and, therefore, rejects Loki - and it hurts him so badly that he attempts to kill himself. He literally can't live with the pain it causes him.

So, I mean, we already know that Loki is deeply emotional and immensely insecure. We know that he's felt inferior and out of place his entire life, only to have those feelings validated by the revelation of his being Jotun and the rejection of his effort to prove himself as worthy as Thor.

We also know that a literally suicidal Loki ended up going through an extremely traumatic experience with Thanos and, furthermore, he has now failed pretty majorly in "taking over" Earth. Loki's in bad mental shape and, I mean, there's his proof right there that Mobius is right and that he always fails and causes death. He failed in Thor 2011 (and caused death). He failed in Avengers (and caused death). He believes himself to be worthless, deserving of rejection; he is emotionally unstable and has untapped reservoirs of pain under the surface.

He is, in other words, in an absolutely ideal place to be manipulated by Mobius. He doesn't seem to believe what Mobius tells or shows him at first - asking where Frigga is being kept, not believing the events that haven't happened to him yet, arguing back against every point Mobius makes, etc. But, as the scene wears on, you can tell he's becoming less and less sure that it's a falsity and more and more uncomfortable and upset because Mobius is unrelentingly digging at everything Loki's ever feared about himself.

That's the state Loki's in when Mobius selectively shows him the most painful scenes from his future.

Not to diagnose Loki, bc I am not qualified to do so, but to project a little bit - as an emotionally unstable person myself, who has struggled with mental health for as long as I can remember, I can very easily see how Loki would believe Mobius at that point.

It's like, imagine that you have all of these fears about yourself and they color the lens through which you view the world. I mean, Loki's experiences have definitely contributed to his poor self worth, and his family and culture have fucked him up - no imagined slights here - but when you hate yourself enough, it can alter how you perceive every little thing.

You may blame yourself a little harder for things that aren't your fault. You may too quickly assume that someone else thinks the worst of you when they may not think anything in particular about you at all. You may feel completely and utterly alone and hopeless about that ever changing because why would anyone want ever want to love someone as worthless as you?

Now imagine you've done some really bad things and, deep down, you feel guilty about them. You didn't enjoy doing them, but you did enjoy how powerful they made you feel, and that makes you a bad person, too. You weren't even wanted as a baby, for fuck's sake; you were literally abandoned for no discernable reason besides possibly being a runt, aka being born wrong.

These are all things you feel, and then here comes this person who is showing you events that have happened that he shouldn't know about, he's telling you information about yourself that he shouldn't have, he's showing you that he's got the resources to figure you and your life out and then he tells you to your face - while showing you even more failure and death in your future - oh hey, everything that you fear and everything that you feel? Yeah, that's all valid. You are irredeemable. You are responsible for death and destruction. You are unwanted, both by your family and by existence itself. You're only here so that others can have someone to stand on while they climb to the top. You killed your own mother because you're so selfish and vengeful! God, how do you even live with yourself, you destructive waste of space?

I mean, again, call me biased and paint me as projecting my mental illnesses on Loki but if it were me, no amount of intelligence or experience with lies would be enough to not believe every single word Mobius said about me (and about the situation).

It's certainly possible that Loki is playing along to escape; I mean, we know that he does eventually escape, though whether he gets captured again or not remains to be seen. But I think that, at the conclusion of the episode, Loki has just been broken down enough by everything he went through that day (it was a really rough day for Loki) that he's like, yknow what, just - okay, fine, tell me what I have to do bc I'm all outta options here.

(Actually, to be completely honest, I think there's both going on - Loki is resigned to being stuck with the TVA but also he probably recognizes that, at some point, he's going to get the opportunity to escape and might as well play nice until it comes along.)

So, yeah - I completely buy how that scene went down in regards to Loki believing Mobius.

#thank you for the ask!#asks #charlotte replies #loki tv series spoilers #loki series spoilers #loki spoilers #loki pokey artichokey #i will never be over loki #mobius dick #tw mental health #tw suicide attempt mention #tw suicidal ideation #tw depression #tw gaslighting #tw psychological abuse

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geekns · 3 years

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Loki - a deeper look

Loki’s journey through the MCU only makes any sense to me if i overanalyze all of it. For examples, what I comprehend through subtext found in the Avengers is: Loki was tortured by Thanos. Loki blatantly presented himself as an enemy to the yet-unassembled superheroes, ensured the Avengers would team up, and was relying on Erik's resistance: all to ensure that he would be defeated. Then he allowed himself to be captured so he could be protected from Thanos on Asgard.

For some of this, this is basic, right? We’ve eagerly watched Loki for years, we’ve analyzed his actions, we know who he really is. That’s why we’re Loki’s Army. So why does Loki seem so OOC in Loki?

The TVA is not completely all-seeing, but I still maintain that Loki was never alone during the Variant. Take his escape in “Glorious Purpose:” his movements through the Time Twister seem to completely remove him from view rather than blur him (unlike when he's slowed with the time/prune-stick thingy). So the TVA couldn't see him while he is in Time Twister transit, but it certainly did not take them long to find him.

It took them less than a minute to realize he was missing. It took Loki a few seconds to find Casey, he had two minutes with him before B-15 found him, it took him just over four minutes to watch the end of Alpha Loki's life, B-15 had already found him again, and then he had a couple minutes, tops, to decide what he would do with all this new info before Morpheus found him. That's 5-10 minutes of freedom.

There are cameras everywhere in the TVA. And agents, Minute Men, administrative employees with various states of awareness of their surroundings, and even Miss Minutes herself. If i were Loki, i would assume that my every movement is being watched while I’m in the TVA and out of it.

In fact, Loki’s not even alone when he finds out about the destruction of Asgard!

So what would you do if you were being watched 24/7, would be caught inside ten minutes even if you were able to escape, and resisting and/or not cooperating is going to certainly end with death? Loki's solution seems to be acting as if he's cooperating for as long as it is expedient. Stalling for time, trying to seem harmless, etc.

Yes, it's not the Loki we want to see. Give me Avengers or TDW Loki any day of the week, i'm begging you, just let him use his full capabilities of magic and physical strength. But some of us are finding parallels to his actions that match all of the films he's been in (bless you guys). For instance, when have we known him to overact and be purposefully annoying in the past?

youtube

Loki's current behavior is typical of when he's grieving, trying to appear as if he's earning someone's trust, etc. I'm sorry, i know that the overacting is jarring, but surely this is a choice on Tom's part. No, it's not believable that possessed humans can throw him, but equally so, it's not believable that B-15 could, either.

Loki's interactions with Mobius even echo his conversation with Thor in Ragnarok just before "Get Help." Annoy, appear to be cooperating, do not be assertive or threatening. Yes, even charm his way to the top, but no, it's not about overthrowing the Time-Keepers to rule. Yes, when Thor and Loki are talking in the elevator, Thor assumes that Loki wants to rule Sakaar (Loki merely assumes that Thor doesn't want him to come along back to Asgard). This misconception is one of those things that gets repeated over and over again: “Loki only wants to rule,” they're constantly shoving it into our faces, and I have never bought it.

In Thor, he wasn't expecting to rule. In the Dark World, he tried to convince Thor to take the throne. In Ragnarok, he immediately ceded the throne to Thor when his brother finally decided to take it. In “the Variant,” the Variant tells Loki that she has no interest in ruling the TVA, once again assuming that Loki means to rule (which is one of the reasons I don't feel like she's Lady Loki, but i digress).

The only reason Loki wanted to rule is because his mind was twisted by Thanos, that's the only time that ruling was his glorious purpose. And this version of Loki has already shaken that off, decided that purpose was hollow, not in the least bit glorious. Loki is perfectly capable of ruling well, that's not what his heart's desire is.

Loki wants to get to the top so he can save himself, plain and simple. He doesn't want to die. His strategy is consistent again (per Ragnarok, both with the GM and Thor), to prove himself useful to the people who are actually in power. And he doesn't stick his neck out unless he's forced to. If he is caught out being selfless, he plays it off as if it's for glory rather than because he's actually a decent person.

Now, ultimately, Loki probably does have it in mind to overthrow the TVA, but because he does not like their control over him and it would be fun to take vengeance. But, from what I am seeing set up here (and i may be 100% wrong), TPTB are setting us up to be distracted by the superficial Loki--that version of Loki that the people who don't overanalyze everything they watch are used to seeing (because they still do not properly understand what is obvious to us)--just so they can subvert that and give us the Loki that we know and love, as he truly is.

Someone who wants you to think that he doesn't care, or only cares about himself, but deep down is quite noble and selfless. Who manipulates things behind the scenes for the good of his brother and the good of Asgard. Who is tragically misunderstood and would never wear his heart on his sleeve in public. Who has been literally tortured, and lied to, and told what his intentions were rather than listened to or believed in.

But IF they are just fucking this up then i'm done. I like my version of Loki better than the superficial one that we've been force fed in the past. This is already the MCU’s/Disney’s last chance with me.

#the loki series #Loki series spoilers #meta #parallels #character consistency #thor #the dark world #ragnarok

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mixelation · 3 years

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very curious about your full opinion on Loki if there's anything else--most people I know seem to love it, and the only thing that i really really disliked was the shoved-in romance plot

Yeah, I'm actually sort of surprised that the only criticism I'm really seeing of it is the stuff related to, like, Loki's relationship to Sylvie (and often additional criticism about his sexuality and gender that is at least tangentially related to Sylvie). Like I.... genuinely thought this series was very mediocre and not any better than FatWS (which I liked alright but didn't think was great, you know?).

Uuuh here's a longer review (heads-up for some spoilers and also negativity):

I actually don't really care about the romance or the controversy about Loki's gender & sexuality. I thought it was really consistent for what the MCU (and Disney is general) was feeding us and my expectations on this front were too low to be let down. I think Loki deciding he was in love happened incredibly quickly, but it wasn't inconsistent with just.... the bizarre way this series presented all character development.

So, I watched the series as episodes came out and haven't rewatched it, so I might be missing some details, but the structure of the show seems to be this:

First third: establish the world/premise. I thought episode one started fairly strong and I liked Loki making quips as he was bullied through various pieces of TVA bureaucracy. Then Owen Wilson's character came in and.... all of the exposition just sort of collapsed into dull dialogue delivered by characters sitting around in dark rooms. This is very boring storytelling. It got sort of better when Tara Strong's clock character was giving more bouncy narration with visuals, but honestly they should have condensed everything down into just that. I feel like I watched almost two solid hours of this show trying to explain its premise to me and I still don't full understand what makes a person a time variant, or what makes a timeline branch, or why branching timelines are bad, or why Owen Wilson was trying to give quasi-therapy to Loki. Why is Loki a time variant but not the rest of the Avengers? Why is Sylvie a time variant? All of the TVA agents whose past lives we saw seemed to be totally normal earthlings-- what on earth did they do to become time criminals? Can you just accidentally commit crimes against time? Why did we need this Loki to be a TVA agent? I feel like characters explained how all this works MULTIPLE TIMES and every time it didn't make sense and also, I did not care.

I think trying to force post-Avengers Loki to care about what regular timeline Loki does made his character weaker. This aspect relied heavily on me caring about mediocre MCU movies (like the first two Thor movies) and I just... don't. I actually don't care that much about Loki Angst (tm), and I don't care about what upset him in a movie I haven't seen in years, and I especially don't care about him being sad about things he has not done yet and were already resolved in previous movies. I think they should have introduced some stakes/things for him to care about that were contained solely within this mini-series.... which they ALMOST did, but also sort of fumbled.

The best part of this first part were honestly the bits where Loki was running around and interacting with less important characters (the librarian and the exhausted desk worker both manage to be more interesting characters in the thirty seconds they were on screen, just by being allowed to be CHARACTERS instead of bland faces like the judge or Owen Wilson). I think episode one would have been more fun and higher energy if Loki had escaped from the boring conversation with Owen Wilson MUCH earlier and then spent time running around the TVA and learning about how things work that way, maybe while having taken Exhausted Desk Worker Casey captive or something.

Second third: establish the plot, get to know Sylvie. This part is about Loki chasing after Sylvie and learning about her and the story establishing what the plot is. I don't really have any complaints about Sylvie. I think besides Loki himself, she's by far the most interesting character. I remember her name and I understand her motivations, which I can NOT say for Owen Wilson or the judge or the grumpy TVA agent. Sure, these last three characters SAY their motivations to each other a few times, but this.... isn't how you establish character motivation and development? What? A lot of Sylvie's background is given via EVEN MORE expository dialogue, but we at least get the sense that Loki wants to hear it, and it's given after we see the type of person she is and we're more invested in her.

I thought Loki and Sylvie running around an apocalypse world was fun, and I liked that they had a moment to relax together on a goofy scifi train and have a heart-to-heart. Honestly, I think the best parts of this series were Loki hanging out with different versions of himself, and I think it would have really put this series over the edge as really great and creative if they had played with that more. Like, how cool would it have been if they'd thoughtfully crafted a Loki character study around him meeting and talking to other versions of himself? I think this.... sort of happens, in places, but it's more about Loki reflecting on past actions (i.e., betraying his brother) and what he MIGHT do (the regular Avengers timeline) and not like... much about who he is as a person. I know there were a lot of jokes about selfcest with regards to the Loki/Sylvie romance, but honestly I think this could have been a neat way to explore what Loki likes and doesn't like about himself. Like if it had been better established that his relationship with Sylvie is his relationship with a possible version of himself and allowed him to externalize some of his self-reflection, that just would have.... done a lot more for me on a meta level.

.....also it would have been kind of funny if Loki had been into OTHER versions of himself too.

Last third: wrap up plot, but also still continue to explain plot? I like most of the shenanigans with the various Lokis. I like that there's just an apocalypse garbage dump at the end of time where a bunch of Lokis converge and make alliances and backstab each other. I like that one is just, mysteriously, a crocodile. I wish they'd been a more "classic" Lady Loki and IDK why Sylvie is the only one that's a woman, but that's a pretty petty complaint int he face of... everything else.

I do not care about any of the plot twists involving the TVA. None of the agents are interesting or engaging enough for me to care about them. I truly, desperately wanted this series to stop talking about confusing time travel world-building that wasn't even interesting and just show me trickster god action, but it never let up on this front. We have to learn more about the mysteries of the TVA, a thing which this series completely failed to make me give a shit about. I was, on an emotional level, very confused when 'who started the TVA?' was suddenly introduced as a mystery I was supposed to be invested in later in the series. Please just give me a trickster god trying to break time out of a sense of vengeance while AU versions of her have conflicting emotions about it, it's fine, you do NOT need to go much deeper than that.

The final plot twist was dumb. I really, really didn't care and the way it was presented and the show reverted right back to boring dialogue in a dark room. I get that the reliance on dialogue was probably a function of budget vs the grandiose story they were trying to tell, but it did NOT work for me. I signed up for a show about a magic trickster god! The show was like "do you want INFINITE VERSIONS OF THE TRICKSTER?" and then it.... just pulled a bunch of run-of-the-mill, cliche superhero movie plot twists and barely utilized the main character's supposed proficiency in trickery or magic.

(HONESTLY, MCU Loki is barely worth his title as the God of Mischief. He just sort of.... does very generic villain things until his writers remember he's supposed to be wily and then they have him use an illusion or backstab someone. Okay??)

Final thoughts: Could have been a fun movie if they'd... cut out all the boring exposition, focused more on inter-Loki conflict than boring TVA-based characters, and just made a two-hour movie. OR, I would have enjoyed a longer, episodic show about Loki and Owen Wilson going on time heists and meeting other Lokis causing chaos across the galaxy, with the mystery of the TVA thing being built up better as a background plot. The series had at least a few fun scenes every episode, which I enjoyed, and I liked the premise of Loki reluctantly partnering up with the time police to solve Loki-related time crimes.... but I felt the series REALLY got bogged down in trying to flesh out the TVA into something big and epic and just... ended up producing something incredibly boring with boring characters to talk to each other about it in boring ways.

And those are my thoughts!! As always these are MY OPINIONS and you are allowed to disagree with me, agree with me but still think this series was awesome, or just not read this at all.

#do not r b

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mischiefthedreamerx · 3 years

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The Lies We Tell Ourselves

Synopsis: After being taken back to the TVA from Lamantis 1, Loki and Mobius have a little chat about trust, lies, their unsteady partnership and jealousy. Is this how it ends?

Word Count: 1.6k

A/N: This is just some alternative dialogue I came up with after Loki explains the truth about the TVA before being sent back to the time loop. Just some angst.

- - - - -

Mobius tapped his pencil against his notepad before beginning to write down Loki’s sudden outburst of false accusations against the TVA.

"So let me summarise the lie you and Sylvie have conquered up this time; the TVA is actually the ones lying to us, right?" He looked up from his notepad, satisfaction gleaming off his face. “Not a very good lie though.”

Loki shook his head in denial before he spoke up defending himself. "It's the truth, I swear it! Take me to Sylvie! She'll explain everything you need to know about this place.”

Mobious scoffed, his amused smile remained in perfect place which only aggravated Loki even more. "No chance, Loki. I'm not falling for your lies anymore."

Loki refused to back down and as he leaned forwards over the table. "Believe me. Just this once." This time he decided to lower his voice, the intensity in his tone sounded almost pleading. "You can trust me."

"Still think you can play these sorts of games with me? Lying won't get you nowhere this time. You’re out of luck." Mobious whispered harshly.

Loki pulled himself away with his back against the chair, arms folded across his chest, his chin lifted ever so slightly. "You really think you know everything about me don't you?" Loki questioned, his face hiding any sort of emotion.

"As a matter of fact, I do. I know more about you then you know yourself." Mobius boasted proudly. "And frankly, I no longer have much need for you considering you've chosen to work with the adorable little Sylvie." Mobius picked up his tempad and began to open it up.

"Have I broken your heart?" Loki teased, a small smirk creeping upon his lips. "Because if that's the case then I'm dreadfully sorry."

Mobius closed the tempad with an unnecessary snap. “No. You broke my trust, Loki."

Loki's victorious smirk dropped within seconds, eyes widening.

"Yeah, believe it or not I actually trusted you to do the right thing for once." The once playful atmosphere between them changed into something unpleasant, something almost suffocating. "I thought I'd give you the chance to be someone else, someone of your choosing instead of becoming a villain like everyone expects you to be." Mobius straightened his shoulders to compose himself. The disappointment was so easy to notice, on display with non attempt at even hiding itself.

For once, Loki was wordless from Mobius’s confession, breathing out a low sigh. He opened his mouth to speak but nothing was able to come out, no sarcastic remarks this time. Loki narrowed his gaze downwards to avoid the clear pained look on Mobius's face, his hands gripped his shirt forming fists from his folded position. Loki had broken many people’s trust before but this time it felt different somehow.

"Do you truly care for me?" Loki questioned curiously, he lifted his head back up to meet Mobius's eyes, analysing him.

"Considering I've been defending you time and time again ever since you got here, I'd say the answer is plain and simple." He explained, his hurtful expression changed into something more neutral.

"Even after I betrayed you?"

"Even after you betrayed me." Mobious confirmed.

Loki was set back, and even possibly surprised that Mobius had much trust in him despite knowing everything about his past and future. Was he feeling guilty for betraying him? Guilt had never been a feeling he felt before. It was a pointless feeling, what was done had been done. Guilt changed nothing but only made you pointlessly suffer for longer than necessary.

Loki gave it some thought, he kept his cold guard up despite it all.

"Then you're a fool."

A sad smile crossed Mobius's lips. "Yeah, maybe I am."

They fell silent in the large empty room, both trying to form something else to say. Loki knew this conversation would not work in his favour, not if Mobius's continued to disbelief him, could Loki possibly blame him for not believing him? The concept of trust was just as foreign to Loki as companionship was. He'd spent so long only trusting himself and relying on himself, wandering alone and pushing away the few remaining people that still cared for him. You could only push someone away so far till they no longer wish to keep trying to save you. And Loki has done exactly that. But why?

Guilt. Loki felt guilty for never appreciating those who did care for him. Still, it didn't change a thing. It was too late now.

Loki stood up, no longer being able to handle the drowning yet awkward silence.

"So what now?" Loki questioned, spreading out his arms out in annoyance.

Mobius smiled to himself at some inner thought he was having. "I don't know, Loki. You tell me." He said casually with ease. "Ready to tell the truth yet?"

Loki grumbled out an exasperated sigh. "I've told you the truth!”

"Okay, Loki, let's try something else; what caused the sudden nexus event on Lamantis-1?"

"How am I suppose to know? I was too busy trying to not get myself killed out there!" He began to pace slightly.

"You mean too busy flirting with yourself."

"No!" Loki protested. Mobius sat back comfortably and let out a laugh.

"And what's so funny?" Loki asked, his back turned away.

"You know, out of all the Lokis i've met, you're my favourite one so far." Mobious said.

Loki stopped his tracks, still facing away. "And I bet that you've said the same thing to all of them." He scoffed in amusement, hands on his hips.

"Feeling jealous?"

Loki rolled his eyes. "Would that surprise you? Considering you know so much about me." He turned around to face Mobius who still had that same smile on his face. "To answer your stupid question; no, I'm not jealous. I couldn't care less how many Lokis you've met."

"Wanna know why you're my favourite one?" He asked. Deep down, Loki was rather curious to know why, or craved to know why simply due to his pride of course or perhaps it was something more?

"No not really." Came his reply. Though Mobius knew that was a lie.

"Because you're so easy to rile up, I mean, look at you, all that pent up anger ready to pounce."

Loki turned away again, unimpressed by the answer but Mobius continued;

"Because unlike the rest, there's..how should I put it? A lot of depth to who you are. You're complex and unpredictable. But underneath all that mischief and chaos, there's a lot of pain too. Maybe we are more alike than we think."

Loki's shoulders slumped, still refusing to face Mobius like some child who did not wish to see the truth in front of him.

"You and I are nothing alike." Loki gritted his teeth, forcing his breathing to calm itself.

"Unlike you and Sylvie, I suppose?” Mobius said. This time, Loki turned around and went to sit back down.

"What's it to you? After all these years I've finally found someone who understands what it's like to to be me." He said defensively.

Understood what it was like to be alone. Though Loki refused to say that part out loud.

"Yeah, yourself." Mobius commented.

Loki chuckled as he stretched out his legs onto the table.

"Correct me if I'm wrong but do I sense a hint of jealousy from you?" Loki mused.

Mobius only laughed in response to Loki's idiotic analysis, he had no reason to respond to such an allegation. "Loki, feet off the table.” He said.

Loki stretched his legs out even more, resting his back down low into the chair. "Now look who's all riled up."

Their eyes clashed in some form of silent challenge. Mobius accepted the challenge as they both continued to stare into each other eyes, waiting for one of them to back down and accept defeat.

"Loki." Mobius warned, hand reaching for the tempad without breaking away. Loki placed his legs back down. So this was how it was going to end between them. "Alright, fine."

"Now, are you finally ready to tell me the truth?" Mobius asked for the finally time.

Loki blinked his eyes a few times. "You're in denial. You can't possibly tell me you've never doubted the TVA? Not even once?"

There was a brief pause. "No, not even once. There's never been a reason to doubt them."

"Not until now. Stop lying to yourself, Mobius. I'm trying to save you." But Mobius still held up his facade of smiles. Maybe now Loki could understand how alike they where, they had become delusional in their beliefs despite knowing something wasn't quite right. Loki believing he was a god destined to rule for all those years. He had to learn the hard way that it was only a bunch of lies he used to comfort himself from the painful reality.

"Alright, I think I've had enough. As you said earlier, our interests are no longer aligned." Mobius took the tempad and typed into it. A door shaped portal appeared.

The minute men entered the room to take hold of Loki, he did not fight back, there was no point. "You know, out of all the liars in this place and there are a great many, you're the biggest." Loki stood up, letting guards walk him towards the time loop.

"Why? 'Cause I lied about your girlfriend?"

"Oh, no. That I can respect. I mean, the lies you tell yourself."

Mobius narrowed his lips, not giving Loki the satisfaction of responding to him.

"Mobius, I thought we were friends." Loki tried at one last attempt.

"So did I, Loki, so did I." Mobius stood up from his seat taking his belongings with him and made his way towards the exit. Loki was escorted back into the portal.

Mobius paused, briefly turning his head to the side peering behind him at the empty space where the portal had now vanished.

He was alone once again.

- - -

A/N: Obviously the 3 parts of the dialogue are towards the end are from the show

#mcu loki #loki #mobius #mcu #marvel #avengers #loki tv show #loki fanfic #loki fandom #loki oneshot

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otterskin · 3 years

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Hi there Otterskin, sorry to barge into your inbox like this but I just read your post on the latest episode and wanted to voice my agreement! I've tried putting my feelings about this episode into words before but could never put my finger on what exactly bothered me about it until I read your post. For me, the episode felt rushed and I came away from it with a feeling that the story they're trying to tell is far too big for a 6-episode show, and now they're cramming as much as they can into each episode and instead of building up the universe and the relationships between the characters they simply info dump on the audience. It felt that way especially in the scene where Mobius confronts Loki about Sylvie. He had to explain, to the audience, what's going on with Loki and Slyvie because the show never bothered to actually build up their romance. I would've loved to see them actually explore the relationship over the course of a few more episodes and to slowly build up to this revelation and have Loki realise it himself, not have Mobius scream it at him. I was like, Mobius my man, slow down, take a deep breath and chill. I'm still enjoying the show immensely but I'm a little disappointed with the writing and the pace. Anyway, sorry for coming into your inbox and ranting like this. I just wanted to voice my agreement for your post! Have a great day!

Hi Anon!

I would say that while 6 episodes can feel short, it's about four and a half hours. That's actually quite a bit of time. The problem is that they're not always using it very well. Like I said, too many scenes go nowhere and accomplish or set-up very little, when each scene should be doing a few things - exposition, character development, plot progression, world building, etc. should all be happening at once. Instead, we often stop - or keep walking, as the case may be - and yammer on purely about exposition with just a little character development on the side. That's why when things have to go down, they don't have the time left anymore and so they just exposit character development rather than show it (sorry Mobius).

Unfortunately, the amount of logorrhea they put in everyone's mouths often inhibits the acting. My favourite moments with the acting are often when no-one is speaking at all - such as the little 'reaction video' Loki got in Episode 1, and his discovery of the Time Stones in Casey's drawer. I felt like the writing worked very well in those first two - credit to Waldron for that - because it got out of the actor's way when it needed to and gave them great lines along the way. Episodes 3 & 4 felt overstuffed with verbiage, often saying what should have been left to pure acting (with some nice exceptions here and there, like the singing scene). This also has the unintended effect of dragging stuff out, as so often we're just trying to sort through everything being said and thrown at us instead of just enjoying where we are and what's happening. On top of that, too often grand revelations are told to us rather than discovered and reacted to - seeing the Infinity Stones in the drawer is a good example of how to do that right, that was awesome and told us so much about Loki and the TVA. Sylvie just saying 'Anyway, the Time Cops are all Variants' feels a bit anticlimatic, especially as it calls for Loki to be all 'Oh dear, someone should tell them!', when I'd rather see his face go 'Oh dear, someone should tell them' as he learns that. Or at least have dialogue that implies that without being so direct. If that makes any sense.

It just feels like the scripts for 3&4 were just not polished and were written by TV writers, not so much Movie writers - the former relies on heavy exposition while the latter is trained to leave much more up to the director's and actor's interpretation. Loki might have a reputation for being talky-talky, but a surprising amount of his scenes are dialogue-free in the films, or else there's a particular acting spin on the words that makes them feel punctuated and memorable. I'm having a hard time quoting anything from this series in part because there's just not a lot of breathing room. Instead, we just get info dump after info dump, often repeating the same info, more's the pity.

So much exposition can be done visually! Use your sets, use visual storytelling techniques, use colour and lighting and acting and contrasting set pieces and let us have some goddamn 'mah'. (See Hayao Miyazaki quote about the space between claps).

I'd probably be more okay with the rapidfire dialogue if it were just punched up and more iconic and got us somewhere in a more interesting, less direct way. I love witty dialogue and talky-talky films, but there's a lot of effort that goes into making those flow well and not get bogged down.

As for the romance, I'm hopeful that it is not, in fact, a romance, even though I realize I am fighting a lot of evidence on that front. It just feels too strange, awkward and out of nowhere to me. I can't say I'm a fan that they've even implied it. But maybe - just maybe - it's supposed to strange and awkward and there's not in fact a romantic edge to it. Maybe Loki just liking and respecting another Loki is being mistaken for that and used as a weapon to torment him, much like how Mobius has twisted other things to make mockery of Loki and put him down. Loki himself hasn't said it. Although he hasn't exactly denied it either. Maybe that's because he's not sure what the feeling is and needs time to work out it's not romantic. Maybe. Please oh please let there be a way out of this.

We'll see how it goes. I'm still hopeful. There's a lot to like here, it just needed more time to be refined - which, to be fair, is a comment I have about a lot of MCU films. I'm still shocked some of them turned out as well as they did with the quick turnaround they have. Others really did deserve a few more hours in the oven, though. Considering that this is the 'Phase One' of MCU TV (apologies to AOS fans), I think we're probably in for a lot foot-finding and experimentation and messiness, like we had for Phase One of the MCU Movies. I can live with messiness - I even find it a bit exciting - as long as they stick the landing.

#loki 2021 #loki commentary #loki negativity #kinda #still mostly positive but worried #for those who filter posts #q&a

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gavillain · 3 years

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Thoughts on the Loki tv show then?

Short version: I'm liking it! I fully expected to hate the show given that I hated almost everything they did with Loki in the MCU after Dark World. However, they're doing a pretty good job. I think overall, it's a mixed bag for me, but a mixed bag is so much better than I was expecting that I'm very happy with it. Episode 3 really was a big step up after the first two eps and I hope future episodes continue.

Now if you want the long version, I've been writing up my thoughts after each episode to share on a private forum, so I'll copy and paste under the cut. Also spoilers galore past this point:

Ep.1 "Glorious Purpose" Loki himself is the big important thing so I'm gonna talk about him first, and I was both happy and disappointed with his characterization here. Let me explain. Tom Hiddleston obviously plays everything perfectly, and he did a great job on every moment. But the writing on Loki's character is pretty inconsistent. There were a LOT of moments that genuinely felt like they were right out of the golden era of MCU Loki that captured his speech patterns perfectly, his mannerisms, his world view, his humor. Those moments were legitimately there, and they were there more often than I was expecting. Ragnarok had Loki written wrong down to the dialogue and his manner of speaking, and so it was actually very refreshing to see him written generally well, particularly in his conversations with Agent Mobius. However there were multiple moments where he was blatantly written out of character to pander to jokes or to dip into that Ragnarok jokey joke tone. I audibly groaned at the "Am I robot" bit, which was SUCH low brow human and so not in line with the fact that Loki literally knows exactly what he is and had a "species reveal" that was very important to his character. I also would have liked him to be a little more violent. This man came out of a portal, saw SHIELD agents threatening him and immediately went into kill mode in Avengers. Yet this guy stands around and lets himself be taken and forced into situations a lot. But overall, I was happy with his general characterization because I expected the bad stuff to be much worse and it wasn't and the good stuff was more plentiful than I expected. I wasn't fond of the "I don't enjoy hurting people" bit because it's weepy and wrong, but it also was an expected development and I do appreciate that they're at least delving deep into his character on an intellectual level and playing off that "Always so perceptive about everyone but yourself" line of Frigga's. There's potential to do something interesting with him here, so I'm intrigued if not convinced. The Time Keepers concept I hate, but I think I hate it because Loki ALSO hates it and we're a bit too alike in a few regards even here XD I just kind of wish it was less bureaucratic and "we're a joke about corporate offices" and was something more mystical and other worldly. I feel like if it was more science fantasy and ethereal feeling, I would probably be a lot more down for it. But I guess you gotta save money somehow. Agent Mobius is likable, and I like how he can go toe to toe with Loki and how he's kind of morally neutral. I called that Loki was the dangerous time variant disrupting the timeline before it was revealed, but I have to wonder why in the final scene they kept his face hidden. That would have been a great opportunity to show Hiddles hamming up the evil bloodlust, and I am HUNGRY for that. But they kept that Loki hidden in shadows for a reason, and I have two theories regarding why: 1. It actually ISN'T Loki and Agent Mobius is wrong and our villain is someone else. 2. Our villain is LADY Loki and they're saving the reveal that villain Loki is a woman for a later episode. We'll see if I'm right. I HOPE it's number 2 if they kept him in shadow for a reason. So yeah. Not exactly what I wanted but we're on the right track at least for now. I hope this track leads somewhere interesting.

Ep.2 "The Variant" So, first things first, this episode had "I Need a Hero" during a fight scene and TOTALLY botched it. It was way too early to play that card, the action didn't sync with the battle, and it was between a few nameless TVA agents and the evil Loki with the evil Loki still masked in shadow and not really doing much. It just lacked the OOMPH that I felt was necessary for it to be satisfying. This should have been done better. Loki characterization update: less good and less bad than episode one at the same time. There was no "Am I a robot?" cringe, but there was a lot less of the really good Loki dialogue that caught my attention in episode 1. His seemed to have kinda settled back to the mediocrity of Ragnarok Loki with occasional moments of intrigue such as his whole bit about a wolf's ears and teeth. Loki's obviously planning to overthrow the time keepers and to become the new master of time, and he even says as much to his alternate counterpart this episode. I have a sick feeling they're going to have him grow to like the TVA and to save the time stream, but I really want him to follow through with his plans because I think that's much more interesting than the alternative. Will they do it? Time will tell. I also like how much he utterly does not give a shit about Mobius's condolences about Ragnarok happening. That was a good touch. Speaking of Mobius, I still don't care for him or the TVA. They're all just very boring to me, and I don't like Loki being caged to follow their bidding. It's restraining a hurricane of excitement by forcing it to play within this very structured framework instead of burning through freely. With Loki escaping into the timestream to chase after the other Loki, hopefully that will change for the better next episode. Mobius himself gets his character expanded a bit, but his expansion is literally that he is just a cog who doesn't question his purpose and does what he does because it's what he's told to do. And that's just not compelling to me. Sidebar: Ravona, Kang the Conqueror's lover, is the head of the TVA. A fun tidbit but where's Kang? I like the way the episode explored how time variants can't happen during massive catastrophes and apocalypses because everyone dies and everything gets destroyed, so they're safe places for time variants to hide and interact with history. I enjoyed Loki and Mobius going back and messing with Pompeii right before Vesuvius erupts to test that theory. That was fun (though I wish Loki would have, instead of just acting silly and making a scene, would have done his "Kneel before me" bit on the Pompeiians or something more villainous). And I liked the whole aesthetic of them exploring a massive hurricane in Alabama in 2050 and the whole aesthetic going on there. It gave the episode an epic quality. The evil Loki was revealed in this episode, and the twist is that she's Lady Loki. Yeah, I called it. She hasn't done much herself yet and we haven't seen her do much except posses the bodies of various others and then break the timeline with multiple sprawling timeline variants, both of which is very cool. I'm excited for her, though my biggest complaint is that she has blonde hair. No. Lady Loki has BLACK hair. Why didn't they stick her in a black wig or have the actress dye her hair??? AMORA is the blonde Asgardian villainess. Lady Loki has the same hair color as Loki. And... look, I know it's a dumb detail to get hung up on, but the black hair matters to me because Loki has black hair and his beautiful female form does too and I always liked that for personal reasons. Also, she doesn't want to be called "Loki" apparently which is weird but okay, so what DOES she want to be called? I swear if they name her Amora or Sigyn, I'm gonna throw something.

But yeah, the next episode I think promises to be a change of pace, and we can see if Loki can truly spread his wings free of the TVA. I hope he does.

Ep.3 "Lamentis" This was the best episode yet! And for MULTIPLE reasons. This episode sees Loki and Lady Loki Sylvie stranded together in time. It was away from the TVA and it's boring qualities, which was great, and it put two very interesting characters in a situation where they had to rely on each other. This is more of what I was HOPING we'd get from the show. It's a lot more engaging and fun. The TVA always feel like they have their boot on our necks, and having that boot gone, it's amazing how much easier it is to breathe. And I honestly think that was intentional too with regards to how Sylvie outright calls them tyrannical fascist time police. The whole thing with Loki and Sylvie being stranded on the planet Lamentis during its apocalypse is super cool too. First of all, Lamentis is BEAUTIFULLY designed. I can tell they relied on desert locales to save on the budget, but the purple sky, the colorful train, and the neon alien city are all really pleasing to look at. And with the sky literally falling around them, it looks even cooler and the stakes feel cosmic and intense because they ARE. A very good setting that felt refreshing after the very mundane TVA headquarters and Earth scenes. Loki continues to be a sort of mixed bag with weird moments of humor that feel like they were written by someone else for another character, but those moments were a lot more sparse this time around too. Tom is still unmatched in the role, and I love the way he got to be serious, smug, manipulative, and sincere in this episode. I've kinda accepted and settled into anti-hero Loki for this series, and I'm honestly pretty okay with it here. See, I think my issues with Loki being "good" is that it comes with making amends with Thor or working for the TVA. Seeing him pursuing his own agenda on his own terms and collaborating with a kindred spirit who he seems to genuinely like is a lot easier to stomach because it feels a lot more true to the freedom that is so potent about his villainy. I loved him talking about Frigga and how she taught him her magic. That was a genuinely powerful moment. Also even though his dagger metaphor for love got kinda undercut by a joke, I think it was quite good writing and really cut to the point of what makes Loki tic. Also this episode marks a VERY important moment: Loki was canonized on screen as being bisexual in the MCU. He is the FIRST queer main character in the MCU and the first queer main protagonist of a Disney show. And I like the way they did it too! The way Sylvie asked about if he had any dalliances with princesses and then adds "or princes" and Loki says "a bit of both." It was simple and direct and unambiguous, and I love it because Loki has always BEEN queer in the MCU and the writing for him has been very queercoded. Even if that little moment is all it amounts to, it really matters and means a lot to me that they did it and I'm so happy for it. I hope they give him a boyfriend though. Like PLEEEEASE Marvel. Sylvie I'm more okay with this time around. She IS established as Sylvie and not really identifying as Loki anymore, so I can separate her from my preconception of Lady Loki and not mind the BLONDE so much. Sylvie is the name of the second Enchantress in the comics, an Enchantress that Loki himself created. I'm interested to see where they go with her backstory and who she is and what her deal is because they've been implying that she differs from the main Loki quite a lot to the point where she barely even remembers who Frigga was. I also like that Loki's response to the bisexual question implies that Sylvie is bi too. Get that MLM/WLW solidarity. I hope they don't ship them, but I hope they DO stay friends and allies because I'm loving their friendship chemistry. Also, a minor thing in the grand scheme of this episode, but Loki SINGS in this one! And I love it! Tom's always had a very pretty voice that he's gotten to show off in other roles so I'm glad he got to show off his singing in this role too. The Norse folk song he sings was both jovial and somber all at once, and I

loved it. We deserved this Minor nitpick: please give Loki his Asgardian clothes back or something. Because this TVA suit is fucking ugly and I hate it. Sylvie looks so good next to him, and he deserves to be just as stylish. This was a GREAT turning point. PLEEEEEASE keep it up. F&WS failed to. But I genuinely believe that Loki can do it.

#Loki #Loki series

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