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#Speculation
sepublic · 2 days
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Alright, let's talk about some details from the TOH pitch bible;
A lot of the stuff is what we've already seen and/or in line with the show. What's interesting is that King WAS a former King of Demons at one point, and we would've had an episode where he runs into his old gang and chooses Luz and Eda over them. It makes me wonder if he even had a connection to the Titan in earlier drafts, if he wasn't recognized as one back in the day because he just wasn't big enough, etc. Eda makes a deal to help remove the collar, which IS the source of King's woes, placed by a 'mysterious wizard', I wouldn't be surprised if it was Obron AKA Proto-Belos.
What gets me is that Tibbles originally started off as a friend to the protagonists, while Bump was an antagonist! Coupled with Tibbles being re-elected as mayor after Bump is deposed for corruption. I like the detail of Bump being a parasite controlling a body from the head, because it carried over into his final design with Frewin, and before we got confirmation Frewin was a separate entity, I loved the joke theory that the imp on Bump's head was the REAL Bump!!! Seems that was always the implied story of the design, I love it. Tibbles being the demon fan of human stuff would eventually become Gus instead, so this is technically Proto-Gus too…?
Interesting how Bump and Tibbles' alignments switch completely with one another, and it makes sense that with Lilith no longer the principal in the final draft, it goes to Bump, who ends up being really chill and a subversion in his own right! Interesting, but I do prefer the final Bump we got, and that's fine by me, because when the concepts aren't as interesting as the final product, it means we got the best possible version.
I've already discussed Obron and William in a separate post, and Pupa is someone we've been told about in a previous livestream. Lilith would've been both head of all covens (and not just the Emperor's Coven) AND principal at the same time, and she seems much more of a jerk to Eda in general; She has no qualms with cursing Eda because of a direct order from Obron.
Apparently the curse would've been an AGING spell, which settles my questions on how it would've been portrayed in earlier drafts! This goes along with Eda's older look. Likewise, there would've been a subplot of Eda considering Luz's sacrifice as a way to restore her youth, which likely goes hand in hand with Obron's orders to bring Luz to her, etc. The 'Bloom of Eternal Youth' quest, which Eda and Lilith go through together as their sisterly relationship is explored, feels like a carryover from this past idea.
I think I prefer the final draft; I like that the curse isn't just aging Eda, but also takes away her magic, makes her turn into a beast, etc. I like Lilith being a lot more complicated in her relationship with Eda, instead of just hating her and cursing her without hesitation. The redefining of the curse makes it less about age, and more a chronic illness metaphor, and I like how Eda in the final draft is upfront about having to learn to live with it, deal with it, on her own terms. She isn't trying to find a cure (although Lilith being promised one by Obron feels like a carryover of Eda's moral dilemma with Luz), and that adds another nice dimension to her conflict with Lilith, as well as Gwen. It's pretty frank in its own right about normalizing disability, and those who play an antagonistic role (however brief) are the real weirdoes for making such a fuss about it.
The Bat Queen would've had more of a recurring role based on the description, which saddens me; I always got the vibe she was planned for more, but between all of the other stuff the show had to juggle, plus the shortening, she ended up getting shafted despite being one of the earlier characters. Sashley, Pasha, and Bruno are also interesting, with Pasha in particular giving me freaking Philip Wittebane vibes with his grossness, beard, and anti-demon attitude; He even starts off as a potential friend to Luz because fellow human, only for his true bigotry to show. Makes me wonder if Philip ended up incorporating Pasha, we also have bodily transformation because of consuming magical stuff... P-names.
(Also, I like how in the drawing of typical Demon Realm denizens, I can see an eye demon who resembles a past drawing of Dana's!!!)
Eda was actually a late bloomer, which creates a parallel with Luz in one way, and their relationship is referred to as sisterly (in the final draft it’s explicitly maternal). So Eda wouldn't have been the talented youth, in fact things may have switched between her and Lilith; Lilith's disdain may have partially come from Eda not being as innately talented as her.
Luz and Amity's dynamic seems like it would've had Amity retain a lot of her more stand-offish, pragmatic personality even as a friend with Luz, and this would've come up more; So basically, she'd remain more like S1 Amity. That, or this part of their relationship would've lasted longer, and then we would've seen character development as Amity unlearns a lot of the issues her parents passed on. I also wonder if the Willow who cameos in the pilot was originally supposed to just be an extra separate from ‘Paulina’, but then they combined the two together.
The themes are exactly as I expected, glad to see they're still there, nothing changed! Luz becoming a witch and defying all odds to do so, putting in real work and passion. Celebrating individuality amidst conformity, plus Luz trying to impose her own fictional tropes onto the world, only to have to put that aside... Just like Wing it like Witches. It seems Amity would've had more involvement with Luz's journey to become a witch, though we still do have a carryover of that disconnect with her rant near the end of Covention.
I love the Demon Realm being situated BELOW the Human Realm, way to be subtle about being Hell you guys lol... Apparently portals to the human world are a lot rarer to find and use, which makes me wonder if the pilot's 'dimension port' doesn't have access to the human world; Meaning Amity is Luz's only way back, so her improved relationship with her is linked to getting back home. There's a gag about the Knee having service with the human world, but I can see how that didn't make the cut, for dramatic purposes; It seems like the premise for a S1 episode or at least a B-plot. Would Luz have struggled to communicate with Camila through this, or would her search for wi-fi be for mundane reasons?
Apparently Luz's magic would've required a lot more steps to complete, and I see why the show simplified things down to just glyphs. I wonder if there was always going to be the connection of glyphs as a gift from the Titan, or if the Titan and her story was going to be less intertwined in the overall narrative. There also don't seem to be nine main covens, just the many, many covens, some of which are pretty ridiculous, and Covention's sub-covens seem a callback to that.
Luz's first spell would've been levitation, and THEN she would've infiltrated Hexside, with Amity being a lot subtler about exposing Luz, though in the final draft she does figure that out as the way to go in I was a Teenage Abomination. Yeah, I prefer Light being her original spell, feels so much more symbolic and personal, etc. I wonder if the Titan is even as much of a character in early drafts, and if there's still the whole connection/relationship with the land and learning to respect it aspect. Some of these hypothetical episodes push the idea of Amity as a more episodic, typical popular kid antagonist, though in the final draft, the show goes through her character development and explores Amity's romantic relationship with Luz and its complications.
It seems the idea of the Mirror Ghost was split into Adegast and Vee, with Adegast being the one who offers the easier narrative for Luz to believe in about becoming a witch (only to be a fraud who uses uncanny puppets), and Vee being a doppelganger whom Luz communicates through with mirrors. Interesting how Yesterday's Lie was born from this. We saw the test animation from Spencer Wan for TOH, so I guess we know what Luz's puppet-doppelganger is called! And we can safely call her Proto-Vee. I wonder if she also would've been a sympathetic character, I always thought she reminded me of Lake from Infinity Train (and speculated her to be as such since Enchanting Grom Fright), and now the similarities are even MORE apparent!
Alas, The Good Witch Azura, or 'The Unassuming Princess' seems like it'd have been a lot less dear to Luz's heart, as the pilot also reflects; In the end, it turns out the author is just Eda's ex using her adventures as basis, and including private information. I remember when I once speculated that Raine, before we saw their face, would've been just like this as the author of Azura... Again, I think I prefer Azura as being a lot less mean-spirited in the final draft, and instead a celebration of who Luz is as a person, her relationship with fantasy and fiction, etc. We also would've had a Luz birthday party, the Quincenera we've been hoping for since S1...! In the final draft (and episode) we still get that Human-Demon Realm disconnect, though by that point, Luz is much more attuned and chill with the isles.
There’s definitely more of an episodic, sitcom feel to this pitch bible, especially when you compare Proto-Yesterday’s Lie to its final version. Makes sense, Dana is pitching this to Disney executives, though her statement on Understanding Willow feeling truly like her show makes me wonder if she always intended to push TOH in that more serious, emotional route we got.
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A collection of theories and speculation from TMAGP 13
SPOILERS BELOW
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Celia: It's interesting that (assuming she is telling the truthee about Jack/his age) that she would have chosen the name Jack for her baby. Jack is an old nickname for John. I know names aren't really a big factor in the show (Jonathan Sims took his name for the main character of TMA lol), but it's still interesting. Also, she mentioned that it had been a few years since she "moved here" but we know that Chester, Norris, and Augustus showed up about a year and a half ago (the first episode mentions a year, but Same mentions in this episode that it had been about 6 months since he got the job). So we have 3 possibilities, assuming that Celia is from TMA and that Chester and Norris are Jon and Martin (and Augustus is probably Magnus):
1. Time works differently. Celia showed up a few years ago, probably 1-2 years before Jon and Martin, therefore time could work differently for Jon and Martin in the computer system.
2. Celia is lying. I don't remember hearing an glitches while she was talking, so this may be unlikely, however, it is possible that Celia showed up around the same time as Jon and Martin and lied about it to Sam to giver her more of a past. In this episode, she said Jack is around a year old, which could fit into this timeline, if Jack was a premie or if Jack came with her either from TMA or he randomly showed up when she arrived.
3. Celia could have just said the time frame wrong. It's possible that Celia could have said a few years, when she actually arrived around a year and a half ago. This would be untrue, but technically not a lie as a year and a half could be counted as 2 years, which could be counted as a few years. It's possible that she did this intentionally or it's possible that she actually thinks it was a few years. Since she was having "a werid time," her memories could be messed up, especially if she traveled from TMA.
Sam's past: Sam said everything started going wrong after the Institute, which eventually landed him at the OIAR. Could this be the Web's doing? We know that the Web has manipulated a future archivist before, with the Web being the first to mark Jon, so it's possible that it's doing the same to Sam.
Lena & Gwen's discussion: Lena says that her group is "managing the bad guys" which makes me wonder: Is something else controlling the fears? Did the Web take over? Or did this world just figure out how to deal with the fears?
Personally I think it's either a different entity entirely controlling the fears/keeping them in line or the Web (we already know that the Web has manipulated most of the fears before, with Gertrude's/Agnes's bond, Jon, the eyepolcolypse, ect).
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darriness · 3 days
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Buck has never felt so hungover. He doesn’t drink a lot and last night he drank…more than a lot. There had been karaoke, hadn’t there? Oh God, he hopes there isn’t video.
And now he has to tell his sister on her wedding day that they’ve lost her fiancé.
At least Eddie’s here beside him, looking just as worse for wear. Or maybe even more so. Buck’s not sure why he even bothered with the collar of his shirt.
Telling his sister goes just about as well as he thought it would. She and Hen immediately start pacing, reaching for phones, and calling numbers so fast Buck’s not even sure they let the line connect before they start another call.
And he and Eddie stand there awkwardly. Immobile with hangover. And honestly, Buck wishes his parents weren’t here at the moment. He doesn’t overly care what they think anymore (okay maybe he does but he’s working on it) but he sort of wanted to see them for the first time since they…found out…a little more presentable.
Maddie had asked him if he wanted her to tell them before the wedding. So they wouldn’t go all ‘Phillip and Margaret Buckley’ and make fools of themselves when he showed up at the wedding with Tommy. Who is probably waiting for me downstairs looking gorgeous, Buck thinks with an inaudible groan.
But now it’s HIM making the fool out of himself wearing a ridiculous outfit, destroyed within an inch of its life, and more hungover than he’s ever been.
His dad coughs to break the silence between the four people not currently pacing around the room.
“Um,” Phillip says with an awkward shuffle forward, “You, um, must be Buck’s date. We’ve heard…a lot about you. Nice to meet you.”
It’s almost in slow motion as Buck watches his dad extend a hand toward…Eddie. He thinks Eddie is Tommy. He thinks Eddie is Buck’s date. Buck’s not sure if he wants to laugh or cry or vomit.
His parents, in their own weird way, are trying. And while he can’t forgive and forget, a part of him heals a little more in this moment.
And then he glances over at Eddie. Eddie, who is vacillating between looking at Buck’s father’s hand and Buck himself, straightening his ruined suit jacket like that will make it look any less ruined.
A weird feeling fills Buck’s chest at the gesture. His eyebrows furrow as something almost…unfurls behind his ribcage. Between the insinuation and Eddie’s reaction to it, Buck can’t make heads or tails of the increased beat of his heart. What…is happening?
“Dad, that’s Eddie. You’ve met him before. He’s not Buck’s date. Tommy is.” Maddie huffs from near the window; phone still at her ear as she rolls her eyes.
Phillip apologizes immediately and Buck thinks he tries to make a joke to lighten the mood but Buck’s now focused on the new feeling in his chest. The feeling that popped up right after Maddie set their father straight.
Disappointment.
What the hell is happening?
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hideawayfairy · 17 hours
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Okay S2.5 Speculation, let's go! (In no particular order)
Possible flashback on how Millie and Blitzo met considering one of the scenes has them fighting and Millie is shown with long hair.
Ghosteffers will focus heavily on Millie and Blitzo's relationship and dynamic.
I've heard some people speculate that innkeeper as being Leviathan. I personally think it's too early to say, but I do believe this could be a demon from the Envy Ring based on the aquatic design. (Maybe a possessor?)
We may or may not now have confirmation that Cash Buckzo was responsible for keeping Blitzo and Fizz apart for years considering we see him in front of Fizz's hospital room.
Verosika and Blitzo will have a chance to talk their relationship out.
Verosika seems to help Stolas out for some reason (perhaps after Full Moon it'll be a turning point for Stolas and Blitzo's relationship?) (possible new friendship forming between Verosika and Stolas?).
I've seen people speculate that one of the demons we see could be Satan (the one with the bulky lava arm) and I think that speculation is a lot stronger. Since we see Mammon in the trailer as well, we may end up getting an episode where the Sins convene (hopefully this means Ozzie will show up as well).
Fizz seems to be helping Blitzo out now that they're friends again. It's possible that Blitzo might be going to Fizz for either advice or because he might actually want to get Stolas some type of gift.
Octavia may end up playing a big role since we hear her calling Stolas out on his behavior. Might be related to the Goetia get together we see sprinkled throughout.
DHORKS and CHERUB working together might spell bad news for IMP. The two working together could be what causes IMP to be on the run in the first place (and could also lead to that fight going on in the Lust Ring).
All in all, I'm extremely excited for what the rest of the season has to offer and I'm very happy we have general release dates this time around.
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5and3nevermind · 3 days
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Random (and rambling) yoonmin thoughts…
Some speculation and some comparisons to other pairs here. If that doesn’t sound like your thing, feel free to move on to greener pastures. 🌾
☑️ We have so many examples of Yoongi starting to hold Jimin’s hand but stopping himself
☑️ and in many cases Jimin does not reciprocate even though we know he and Yoongi are close
☑️ and on both sides, we see behavior that is unique. Yes, Yoongi has gone to hold the hands of other members but stopped himself (I guess? I only know of one example and it’s with Tae in a stressful red carpet situation. I’m not aware of the example with Jin mentioned by anon here; if anyone knows please send me a link 🙏), but otherwise his behavior towards Jimin is the outlier not the norm, in my opinion
☑️ because with Jimin, it’s often Yoongi who initiates
☑️ when we see “awkward” moments between Yoongi and other members, it’s often because he thinks they want to hold hands or hug or whatever or because it’s time to hold hands while they bow or because he’s nudging them to communicate something and people read something into it that isn’t there (I have a few examples in mind, but I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade)
☑️ but with Jimin, he’ll be minding his own business and then here comes Yoongi wanting to hold hands
☑️ and Jimin’s behavior toward Yoongi (affectionate but careful) is the outlier not the norm for him, compared with how he acts toward the ml and with Hobi (very open)
☑️ and we can’t look at the hand-holding phenomenon and forget that yoonmin spend a lot of time together outside of work
☑️ and when yoonmin have held hands—prior to 2023—it’s been either: 1. under the guise of a game or 2. when (I think) they possibly assumed the cameras weren’t rolling or they weren’t in the shot or it would be edited out.
☑️ and then in 2023, they were affectionate without hesitation (😭) and even though we had tons of content of these two, we don’t see a single “oops I want to hold your hand no I don’t” moment.
The questions I keep coming back to are:
❔Why would these two be so careful about holding hands on camera? All of the guys hold hands…what’s the big deal?
❔Why would that concern, whatever it was, vanish completely in 2023?
These aren’t rhetorical questions; I’d love it if anyone wants to chime in with their thoughts. Their behavior (especially Yoongi’s!) toward each other when it comes to affection is a topic that rolls around in my brain often and I’d love to discuss it.
I’m sure I’m forgetting something here, some important moment that doesn’t fit these patterns, but it does seem like there was a clear change during Ch 2. I tried to provide several examples but we’re dealing with such a large amount of data spread out over 10 years…it’s hard to capture it all.
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dougielombax · 6 months
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I wonder what the largest shellfish is?
Edit: Okay this post is getting a LOT of traction. What is going on?
Edit: Fucking hell.
This post has set off a fucking MINEFIELD!!!
What have I DONE????!!!!!
I’ve lit the blue touch paper and found there’s nowhere to run to!
I’ve summoned a wolf only to unleash a tiger!!!!! Made of fire! And nails.
Probably….
Idk.
Edit 2: 5,000 Notes! Good god! What the HELL do you want from me. I’ve never had a post of mine take off like this until now.
Some got close like the one about homeowner associations (fucking powertripping middle aged mediocrities!) which got at least 1.5k notes but this is the most I’ve gotten on a single post so far.
Anyway.
AND this post has officially gone to hell. (6,666 notes)
Edit: 8,000 notes! Holy shit!
Edit: 9,000 notes!!!
Edit: 10,000 notes!!!!!!!!!
Edit: 15,000 notes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Edit: 20,000 Notes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHO THE HELL TURNED OFF THE REPLY THREAD FOR THE REBLOGS?!
Okay never mind it’s back. For now at least.
Anyway.
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thecryptidzenith · 4 months
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Alright. So this episode was great, but in terms of themes & setting the stage for the rest of the story, this line really stands out:
"You feel something. You look, the Night Yorb twinkling. You've spent your whole summer chasing this. You know all the things you've missed. Your whole summer vacation, all of your friends. Some of you had birthdays on the road this adventure, and yeah, there's lots of adventure, but all of you feel a tiredness in your bones knowing that the reward for saving the world yet again will be going back to school and having another year of working just this hard forever."
This monologue from Brennan is the most thematically/foreshadowy thing we get in the episode, and it does set quite the stage. This is a story about exhaustion and the price of adventure. It's a story about what the hells these six people are going to do with the rest of their lives.
Fig releases something at the end of the episode. Some piece of magic that will certainly mean something later. This is how it's described:
"You've been holding onto a piece of magic for a long time... If you take me, you know what you would save. And you smell something sour and curdled."
"There is a flash of light, a kind of lemony yellow creamy light that flashes out over the hangvan."
Pay attention to that word choice. The magic is "sour" and "curdled" and "lemony yellow creamy." Is it reminiscent of anything?
Gilear's connection with yogurt is established pretty early on in Fantasy High, and yogurt in general serves as a symbol for everything that Gilear is. A sad, pathetic adult and A Normal Guy. Brennan is very insistent when reading out Gilear's stats for the first time that he's just a guy! Some people have to be normal!
But our Bad Kids aren't normal. That's the whole point of them. They've saved the world. Falling to Gilear's level is terrifying. It's literally Fabian's nightmare.
From that part of Pirate Brawl:
"You hear a voice behind you" [Gilear!Fabian] "say: 'It's all going to be all right... I know it seems very far off, but there is a way for you to be happy.'"
And of course, the yogurt, the symbol of mediocrity, is here too. "The yogurt curdles in your stomach." Curdles. The same word used to describe the magic coming out of Fig. The yogurt that Fig gives to Fabian while he's having his breakdown in Leviathan is lemon flavored too.
Of course the primary conflict seen in the trailer is about difficulty graduating. That's a normal problem. That's a normal concern for normal people.
The fear of mediocrity can be strong. Especially for people as exceptional as the Bad Kids. But the fear that you'd be happier taking the easier path, that the road less traveled isn't inherently better, that your hardship is for nothing... that's even worse.
The reasonable thing for Fig to be releasing would be the red growth seen on the minis in the trailer. But no. She releases something lemony and creamy and sour and curdled.
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angstmachine-rw · 3 months
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Can I talk about this image from Rivulet's ending for a second?
(edited to add a break because the post is very Long TM)
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If Five Pebbles knows that you are delivering the Rarefaction Cell, Moon pulls this message up alongside the dialogue;
"I cannot run away from my mistakes forever; Please understand." Five Pebbles, what have you done… I've been given so much already, and now you've given all you had left.
Based off of Moon's dialogue, this seems to be an inbox of some sort. We can assume that the orange symbol is basically Five Pebbles' profile picture. Which would mean that the pictures to the side are unread messages from other iterators, some more clear than others.
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Based on what we know of other iterators, it is probably safe to assume that the green diamonds are No Significant Harassment, while the red sun is, well, Seven Red Suns. We also see that Pebbles' message got greyed out when Moon opened it. Now, this is all well and good for understanding another aspect of how iterator communication works, that being that they can basically send emails to each other. However, that brings up a few questions; one, who the hell is this blue iterator?
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This iterator's symbol is a bit different from the rest, seeming to have the third and fourth karma symbol in their profile picture, alongside a diamond in between. There are three possibilities in my mind. I'll go from most likely to least likely:
This is Chasing/Grey Wind, trying to check up on Moon before or after her collapse. This would make sense, based on their dialogue in the pearls.
This is Unparalleled Innocence. Despite being a jerk to Pebbles, perhaps they checked on Moon at some point.
This is Looks to the Moon, sending a message to herself, perhaps in hopes of using the inbox as a secondary form of memory if she is able to access it. The inbox has at least lasted all this time, for as long as the broadcast networks have been down.
My second question would be; what is the content of the messages from Sig and Suns? I believe that, for Sig's messages, they're the broadcasts that we see him send to Moon before her collapse. However, they could also be Sig's attempts to get the slag reset keys to her without needing his messenger to do it.
As for Suns, they could be apologizing to Moon for what had happened. After all, they were indirectly responsible for her collapse.
I suppose my ultimate takeaway from all of this is; I like getting a glimpse at what iterators can do, and how they interface with each other and the world. I also enjoy speculating about trivial things, lol.
Anyways, thank you for reading my ramblings. It means a lot. Now, though, I must return to my work (aka calculus homework :P). Have a good night y'all!
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factorybought · 3 months
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My personal take on ancients based on the graffiti within the game itself! This is merely for fun really nothing too solid but I tried my best to stay grounded within possibility :) Hopefully the image quality is okay, Tumblr is very broken on my end xl.. also ignore any typos I’mmm too lazy to rly fix any of it since this was just for shits n giggles
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I never envisioned Ancients being too bigger than puppets, just slightly larger bc I think they'd be cocky enough to want to feel bigger/superior than their creation.
Here are some of the graffiti I referenced outside of the murals if you were curious
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Also that brace drawing I mentioned
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holmes-ja · 8 months
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oh no
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So because I am currently incapable of thinking of anything other than Good Omens, I'd just like to rub salt in the wound by pointing out something about this lovely scene.
See the nebula in the middle? That'd be the Pillars Of Creation, a little bit of the Eagle nebula, which sits in the Serpens constellation. How appropriate that Crowley should be the one to put it there.
It's one of the most famous nebulae out there, for good reason. Look at it. It's gorgeous.
But that makes me sad.
Cos, see... the thing about the Pillars Of Creation is that there's a good chance they aren't there any more. It's theorised that a (possible) shockwave from a nearby supernova wiped them out about 6000 years ago.
They're just too far away for the light of their destruction to have reached us yet.
So now I've got this feeling that they didn't just cast Crowley out of Heaven. They wiped his stars from the sky.
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It’s hilarious how Vaggie made herself a ‘sinner’.
How that linked her up with Charlie is such a weird, round about truthful way, even when she was lying by omission about it.
And how amazingly dumb it all makes Adam and Lute look.
Thousands of helpless souls killed by her, but she didn’t do anything ‘wrong’ until she wondered if what she was doing was right. The divine powers in her life only took her wings and condemned her to hell after she doubted their orders, their idea of justice, and quietly chose not to completely follow them.
“You fucked up” they tell her “your mistake” she “left the band” “tried for a solo career". It’s so pathetic. They're so butthurt over the idea of one of their own having a mind of her own.
It’s also so funny, because they spin her simple act of whispering “Go, run. Now!” to demon kid she’d been holding at spear point like it was big defiant move- which makes it into one- even though she never challenged them openly, or threatened them.
Hell, Lute’s “You always were weak” plus exorcist Vaggie always frowning while her murder sisters all grin with glee as they kill sinners- it paints a picture of Vaggie never having been as into exterminations as she ‘should’ have been. Too weak to be a proper exorcist no matter how good at killing she was, not just “the traitor” but also “the failure”.
And she was scared of that. She didn’t want anyone seeing her spare that child, whispered her words to them in a back alley, out of sight.
She was scared of what would happen and didn’t even fight it when Lute took her eye and wings- she was scared and no threat in any tangible way, but apparently refusing to do one single murder is enough to freak Adam and Lute the fuck out.
One woman. Doesn’t do exactly what she’s told. After who knows how many decades of being one of the “top girls” at murder, a “bad bitch” named after “the best thing ever”, and they still get spooked by that tiny moment when she wasn’t under their total control. Like it's such a betrayal to them, her daring to so much as think this level of violence isn’t justified actually, and for a split second act on that thought.
It’s an instant ticket to ousting her from the exorcists AND from heaven, while they fly the fuck off again.
“If angels can do whatever, and remain in the sky-”
and they do. After doing that to one of their own. They did that, to someone who was supposedly meant to be in heaven. They didn’t wait for divine justice- took it, and her eye, and her wings, and her halo, into their own hands and tore them away from her. Then happily, they spend the next three years up in heaven, slurping smoothies and doing more murder sprees.
until Vaggie comes strolling back with the princess of hell, there supporting her girlfriend and the idea that all the shit she did for so long really was and IS wrong.
oh and Adam and Lute are pisssssssed about it. They take her being there PERSONALLY, wanna solve it with VIOLENCE
She hurts them without even trying. Without even noticing they're there.
They're told to fix the princess of hell situation and they have no concept of forgiveness, of caring about sinners, so they guess (rightly) that Vaggie hasn't told Charlie about her past and bet (wrongly) that Charlie would never forgive her if she knew, and also assumed (rightly) that Vaggie would be terrified of that
But they don't get that she's scared of hurting Charlie. Of Charlie being hurt by her. It's a selfless thing. That's her whole PROBLEM.
Her running to hold Charlie after the reveal- her NOT breaking down when Charlie takes alone time in the aftermath, respecting that right up until she thinks Charlie's actively in danger- afraid FOR Charlie when the deal with Alastor is made, no crumbling that Charlie went to someone else for help, when being helpful to Charlie is basically her raison d'étre- agreeing to go alone to an overlord, after learning she can DIE and THIS OVERLORD knows how to do it- all this for the sake of Charlie's dream, their shared goal, their hotel. Their friends, resigned to despair in the hotel lobby, losing hope and maybe hours away from losing their lives
No shit she was never going to bow down to the blackmail?? It'd be like turning herself inside out. Charlie isn't just some "little hottie" or whatever, they're partners. They're in this together. Even when Charlie out loud doubts if that's true, it still is.
Lute and Adam don't GET what it means, that Charlie assumed Vaggie was a sinner already. That the thing she'd be hurt about was the lying, not the murder. She was scared of not really being loved by Vaggie- of everything else wonderful between them being a lie too, all that support and faith empty empty- she wasn't afraid of loving Vaggie, whoever Vaggie had been, she was afraid of who Vaggie might be now and that she'd never really believed in Charlie at all.
Charlie was angry at the thought that Vaggie didn't think she would've accepted her. The idea of not really being understood or trusted by Vaggie, that's what hurt.
And it goes against everything Lute and Adam are, Charlie actually caring about sinners while knowing what they've done- about an exorcist after finding out who they'd been- really trusting that people can change. Lute and Adam hear her say it and see her stand up for it and they just want her to shut up and die
again though, no shit she was going to stick with Vaggie after the truth came out, in the end. Once she had a moment to take a breath and step out of her head long enough for a reality check
Vaggie didn’t say to Charlie what she'd done or who she'd been. But she’s been and keeps doing what she can to follow that idea, unvoiced, from that day when she couldn’t kill a sinner- something Charlie didn't know about but now knows must have happened- A final death means no second chance and no worth as a person, but Vaggie didn’t think that, even before meeting Charlie she didn't think that.
She's always been on Charlie's side. They were on the same side before they ever set eyes on each other. All this time, for three whole years, and now she's off to go find a way to protect everything they've built together.
"-words are cheap, but actions, they speak the truth"
Charlie never really stopped trusting her. Maybe she wondered if she should, but even then, she had Vaggie go to Carmilla to find the key that might save them all.
"She killed an exorcist in the last extermination. She knows how they can be harmed."
"But… I- I didn't even know that was possible."
"If you did, would you have told me?"
So Charlie asked. A pretty painful thing to say- and she said it even as she sent an angel to go find out a way to hurt other angels.
She DID trust that Vaggie WOULD tell her.
The irony of all this happening thanks to Adam and Lute trying to keep it from happening, and all of it leading up to Vaggie getting back part of what they took from her, because now she doesn't need them or heaven to be an angel anymore.
Charlie has faith in her. Enough to send her off on an important mission even after Vaggie hurt her- and send her right to the person who end up helping Vaggie get back her wings.
“The rules are shades of gray when you don’t do as you say”
Vaggie’s new fucking wings are gray when Lute sees them. When Vaggie’s standing over her, sparing her life, her wings and that one, fucking unexplained stripe separating her from the other exorcists, all of it is GRAY.
That visual gut punch of, you’re. Fucking. Wrong. You’re wrong about sinners, you’re wrong about supposedly protecting heaven, you’re wrong thinking you can just DO this shit. That imagery of an angel who DIDN’T stay in the sky because she DIDN’T think being angel meant everything she did had to be right- who’s here in hell, trying to protect sinners from heaven’s slaughter-
And Lute wanted Vaggie to “correct” HER “mistake”? Vaggie’s???
That’s Lute, admitting that people in hell can get second chances and make up for what they did. Admitting that “Sinful filth” like Vaggie can be redeemed in some way, by following Lute’s version of what’s right.
But wasn’t her and Adam’s whole thing the idea of blowing your shot? Getting no other chance after it?  
Oh yeah. Vaggie doesn’t believe that though. Not for sinners like her, not for angels like her.
She let’s Lute live. She does it to make Lute suffer, but there are a lot of ways to make someone suffer- an eye for an eye for example- and Vaggie chooses the one that doesn’t hurt Lute more than it has to, that leaves her alive, and leaves Lute’s suffering to be something completely of Lute’s own making (a HELL of Lute's own making, if you will) (Lute choosing to tear her OWN arm off to continue the fight-).
She's totally dismissive of the woman who was just going after her remaining eye like a dog after a bone.
Why is it that nothing Adam and Lute to do her matters?
Why don’t THEY matter to her at all?
Walking right past them, being so done with them up in heaven, not caving to the blackmail, only being worried about Charlie afterwards, not letting that crack in their relationship stop her from doing what she can for their hotel, Lute threatening to take her other eye and BLIND her just making her snark- even the vague threat to Charlie only gives Vaggie the oomf she needed to defend herself.
“Pathetic” she calls Lute. She’s right- they’re so pathetic, both them, Adam and Lute. They’re so scared of being wrong. So pissy over the idea of being less than great and perfect.
It breaks them. Adam’s last words are him having a meltdown in the face of not actually being hot shit. Where’s his respect, he wails, they should all be worshiping him! But they’re not. One of his random decedents stabs him to death because he would’ve done the same to her, and one of the last things he hears is Vaggie- the fuck up, the traitor, his former grumpy top girl Vagina- whooping with glee as he dies.
And Lute lives knowing that could’ve been her, too.
If it wasn't for Vaggie.
Being not all that didn’t break Vaggie. Finding out she was wrong got her to stop and think and change, not run straight on blindly into a fight that ends up with her (with HIM) dead.
Why does she go from terrified of Lute and Adam, to dismissive and annoyed and just all around not caring about them at all?
They gave up all her respect for them when they demanded the death of a child.
The father of humanity wanted a child killed. A helpless, whimpering kid, sacrificed to his ego and bruised pride, and for shits and giggles. His first lieutenant saw failing to do so as a sin worthy of hell. All this over a child. How could she ever take them seriously after that.  
She came down from high and chased the child and held a blade over them on divine command.
Then, somehow, she saw the HORNS in her own shadow above them- even though she wasn’t WEARING her MASK, and she stopped.
She was her own messenger angel.
She chose to give the child mercy, and became the sacrifice herself.
Vaggie stuck it to the man. Didn’t steal that life. And, terrified of what would happen to her next, acted selflessly. The same thing that got her left behind in hell should have earned her place in heaven, according to Adam-
heaven was shit to her though. Made her into a soldier. Sent her to kill and kill and kill. Taught her trust on the battlefield- in heaven, of all fucking places-
Timeline wise we see her very first smile when she meets Charlie. When a stranger does- again- the bare minimum for someone else.
When she’s back up in heaven later she isn’t wistful, just angry, uncomfortable, annoyed. She isn’t happy there. It’s not home to her, like her and Charlie’s room back at the hotel is. Why should it be? What good did she ever find in herself up there?
Down here though, she's happy. Hell is where her heaven started. So I guess in the end, she did find what she’d earned after all. Or it, Charlie, found her.
When “The rules are shades of gray…”
Sometimes they’re wrong, and you have to break them.  
People like Lute and Adam would rather crack under the pressure and die instead, but not Vaggie. They're out for blood. She's out for love.
Sucks to be them~
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sepublic · 3 days
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Another thought to add about the Source Dragon of Strength being Ras’ master; In addition to Ras’ preaching on strength and Strength’s dismissal towards Lloyd, I also want to point out that in DR S1, Cole mentions that it feels like the earth is ‘screaming’. We can presume the element of Earth comes from Strength, especially when we look at its symbol. So this could be connected to a Source Dragon going corrupt; All of the lands of the Sixteen Realms merged, maybe that had something to do with Strength’s dominion. Given the Source Dragons are implied to be connected to the Merge, it’d make sense if a villainous one masterminded such a catastrophic event.
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hisbucky · 22 days
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Buck: I like guys now. Just, you know, letting you know. Eddie: Oh. Um, wow. I'm proud of you, Buck. Buck, pulls Tommy: And this is my boyfriend. Eddie, blinking aggressively: ...What. Tommy: Well this is awkward.
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sevensoulmates · 21 days
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So you admit it, Tim? You purposely made Buck rehash the same dynamic he had with Eddie in his first episode with Tommy. Tommy, the man that kissed Buck at the end of this episode and helped Buck realize he was attracted to him the whole time. You're telling me that you did this on purpose only this time the queerness of it is textual and specifically meant to make the long-term audience remember when Buck acted like this with Eddie.
And we're not supposed to come to the conclusion that Buck was attracted to Eddie the first time they met and every day since then?
Timothy, idk who you think you're fooling but it certainly ain't me.
Source
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more snowstorm (what else is new?)
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teambyler · 25 days
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Stranger Things has made the General Audience care too much for Will to deny a Byler ending
In Season 1, Will is kidnapped, survives a week without food or shelter in a nightmare dimension, and is implanted by a demon. He's been abused by his dad and bullied his whole life. Yet once he orients himself the FIRST thing he does is see Jonathan's hand and ask if he's okay:
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In Season 2, he avoids telling everyone what's tormenting him because he doesn't want to worry them and he thinks he'd be misunderstood and babied. (He only tells Mike.) He gets possessed, has the guilt of causing people's deaths, and multiple times feels the pain of being burnt alive:
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In Season 3, his friends aren't interested in D&D. Mike tells him something homophobic and cruel. Will realizes he's gay and closeted and has had his innocence stolen from him forever. He destroys Castle Byers full of sorrow and self-hate:
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In Season 4, he's in love with his best friend and lives with the pain that Mike is dating his sister. STILL, he unconditionally helps Mike in the relationship, even if it denies himself a chance to be with him. He gives El the credit for the painting HE made for HIM:
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For 4 seasons, the show has made people care for Will as he suffers alone. What logically happens in Season 5 is that he stops suffering and is no longer alone.
In Season 5, the Duffer Brothers have left an open plot point where MIke's love confession to El was based on a lie. He felt romantic love for the first time because WILL confessed his love for HIM. (See my blog for more on that!)
The seeds for a "Byler twist" are all there. The main factor against a Byler endgame is a need to cater to the General Audience who might not be ready for a gay relationship between two main characters.
But not only would denying Byler be (by far) the worst instance of queerbaiting in media history, where Will's love for Mike is simply a device to prop up a straight relationship...
... It also would feel particularly CRUEL to Will. For 4 seasons, the Duffer Brothers have made sure the GENERAL AUDIENCE wants him to have a happy ending. And they have made clear that Will wants to be with Mike so much.
Nearly every other main character in ST has had their love interest. There is no main cast addition to s5, so there is no "other boy." If Byler happens, then the people who'd complain would not only want the gay boy, but WILL of all people (how dare you!), to be the only main character to end up alone. He is America's Gay Adopted Son. The anti-Bylers would be isolated.
The Duffer brothers have set up the GA to cheer for Will pairing with the boy he loves. It would be a home run against homophobia.
Will told Mike he is the heart of the party. But for the GA, Will has been the heart of the show since the beginning. (And if Mike leads the party in s5, it's because Will's heart is on his shield.)
"Will really takes center stage again in [season] 5," Ross Duffer told Variety. "This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together."
The Duffers have said s4 was their Empire Strikes Back ending. Which makes s5 the show's triumphant Return of the Jedi.
Will will get his happy ending. It's all there!
P.S. Follow me and read my blog! I have so much to say!
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