#RT Discourse

[currantlee]

A few comments on a recent post about RWBY I made got me thinking about something. Basically, I think that Rooster Teeth – and possibly by extension its parent companies – have artificially inflated RWBY as a media project and franchise rather than letting it grow organically. Therefore, it became a bubble that was bound to burst at some point. RWBY might never have been a profitable IP, which might be very relevant for its future.

This is not a problem that arose after Monty Oum‘s passing, I feel like this was already coming before that. Shane Newville‘s open letter (which absolutely comes from an emotional, mentally unwell state of mind, but has had many of its contents confirmed over the years, even beyond being one of the first descriptions of the toxic work environment at Rooster Teeth) makes a few points that support this impression. Whether you agree with the letter or not, you cannot deny that the first two volumes of RWBY, while they also had merch accompanying them and stuff, were not produced following industry standards – starting with the 3D software used, Poser Pro (Monty Oum‘s preferred tool for animation). This led to some really creative animation work that, while not always high-quality by industry-standards, was certainly pushing boundaries. It was creative and it worked for what RWBY was: a passion project created by someone who saw animation as his strongest suit – as his preferred medium to tell a story. I‘ve seen a lot of people claim that Monty Oum wasn‘t a writer, and while that‘s true, I feel like the implication of that statement is always that he couldn‘t tell stories on his own. I don‘t think that‘s true. I think Monty Oum was a great storyteller when it came to expressing certain things through animated action scenes. It‘s just that he wanted to tell a story that included more than just that and a few lines of dialogue – which is where Miles Luna and Kerry Shawcross come in, two at the time very inexperienced writers (who possibly had a fallout with Monty Oum over creative differences later), as well as some talented folks – people like Shane Newville. They were chosen to work on this because Monty Oum acknowledged their potential and liked to work with them, and I feel like that created an environment where they were really allowed to flourish. Volumes 1 and 2 are certainly not flawless, but I feel like I can tell the people making it had fun.

To Rooster Teeth however? I think RWBY (and by extension, Monty Oum as a creator) might have been little more than assets to them. RWBY was first created around a time when RT first tried to be more like, well, an actual company. At least from 2014 onward, but possibly even earlier than that, this included an effort to conform to industry standards more, mostly in order to be able to hire more people – very visibly so in RWBY in the form of the switch to Maya (my opinion about that is, the way they did it didn’t do RWBY any favors at all). I think they saw RWBY and Monty Oum as an opportunity to appear… More important, bigger, than they ever really were.

So what did they do? Again, I kind of have the feeling that they “upscaled” RWBY to a size where it appears like this big thing, but it became far too much to handle. Essentially, they created a mock giant, or a metaphorical quasi-star: something that can appear big from afar, but is actually very small / unstable (and if we go with the quasi-star metaphor, disturbs all of its surroundings). This is what I mean when I say that RWBY was a bubble bound to burst, because no star lives forever – and quasi-stars can only exist under very specific, very unstable conditions (I linked a Kurzgesagt-video in case you’re interested what exactly a quasi-star / black hole star is / was, cosmology is so fascinating IMO). Once these conditions exist no longer, they both fall apart and collapse into the black hole that is their core at the same time.

My main argument for this is that RWBY was essentially a huge money sink for RT (Source: Barbara Dunkelman’s unprofessionalism). They pumped so much money into this… Perhaps even more than they ever made from it. While this isn’t 100% confirmed, it is very much possible (and IMO not exactly unlikely) that RWBY was never profitable — which it might have been if RT hadn’t been so hellbent on creating the illusion of a multi-million-dollar franchise.

This is purely speculative, but this might also be why Volume 10 was never greenlit. We know that Volume 9 was to a significant part funded by Crunchyroll and in fact would not have been possible without them (probably because RT was already out of money at this point). They might have bought into this mock giant, then realized they had pretty much been scammed once Volume 9 aired. This might have led to Crunchyroll’s unwillingness to fund another season for something they knew now was effectively a money sink. Since RT at this point lacked the funds to produce Volume 10 alone and therefore was dependent on investors like Crunchyroll and Warner Brothers… Volume 10 was never greenlit, no matter how hard they attempted to get their fans’ hopes up and start a hashtag campaign on social media (as far as I remember, that was started by Rooster Teeth, not the fans. I don’t have my Twitter account anymore though, so I can’t check). Again though, this is speculation.

The worst part? This refusal of RT to just… Downscale RWBY again, this determination that it had to be this huge franchise… Was all put on the backs of the creatives working on it. We know at this point, from multiple sources, that RWBY and other RT productions have had an incredible amount of crunchtime, working overtime, employee abuse, … going on behind the scenes, which seems to only have gotten worse after Monty Oum’s passing. At the end of the day, all RT does and has ever done is blame others for their incompetence. Like, no shit, I’ve seen fans claim that it’s the FNDM’s job to “keep the show alive” (particularly in the light of #GreenlightVolume10), which… No, that’s not the fans’ job. It’s the job of the company who has been entrusted with this beloved IP, and said company has proven to be utterly incompetent on multiple occasions, which is unfortunate, but a sad reality for all those who love RWBY. And while Rooster Teeth has never directly said such a thing, they have certainly implied it and taken advantage of the existing sentiment within their fanbase, as well as their parasocial relationship with it (again, see #GreenlightVolume10 for reference).

To clarify, I’m not saying none of this would have happened if RT didn’t insist on making RWBY this big franchise (and biting off far more than they could chew in the process) – again, RT was far too notoriously incompetent at everything a company should manage – but I do think it might have played a role. It also isn’t an excuse for all the employee abuse. Again, what they should have done is downsizing the project, not inflating it further and further.

If I’m not somehow completely in the wrong (because IMO this just makes way too much sense to not be at least partially true – but let’s face it, a lot of this is just me connecting dots, and there is always a chance I’m connecting them wrong, even though I don‘t think so), then it kinda blows my mind that there are still people who believe in this scam. Though I will say, emotional attachment can do that to anyone. If anything, I’m honestly sorry that those folks lose something that means so much to them, and that false promises were made to them.

At the end of the day, the story of RWBY (the “franchise”) is twofold. It’s a story about an incredibly talented creator who passed away far too early, who was given the incredible opportunity to make his dream come true. It’s a story of people he trusted taking up his torch, and maybe getting lost in the dark along the way. It’s an inspiring story regardless, and I hope to see it continued at a downsized scale so it can grow organically, preferably in the hands of an indie animation studio like Dillon Goo (🤞)

But it is also a cautionary tale to both creatives and companies who employ them, a tale about false promises, abuse of both employees and fans, as well as how to not run a project. Don’t blow your thing out of proportion too early, don’t create a mock giant / metaphorical quasi-star. Let your ideas and projects grow and flourish organically and sincerely.

#RWBY #Rooster Teeth #RT Shutdown #Rooster Teeth Shutdown #Corporate Meddling #Theorizing #Speculation #Behind the Scenes #Rooster Teeth‘s corporate incompetence #Rooster Teeth toxicity #Monty Oum #Shane Newville #Shane‘s Letter #Open Letter to All who Treasured Monty Oum #RWBY Volume 10 #RWBY Volume 9 #RWBY V9 #RWBY V10 #Greenlight Volume 10 Meta #RWBY Discourse #RT Discourse #RT Critical #Does this count as RWDE? #Anyway #RWDE #Currantlee here

[tendergore]

wow rip to Rooster Teeth 🫠 life is so strange. i saw trevor collins post that he's in search of work now, i wonder what's gonna happen next for everyone. the article said that the podcast network aspect will remain intact for now but i wonder what-all that encompasses since so many of their live shows are also podcasts.

i've been listening to burnie's new pod and this morning's guest was barbara, kind of unfortunate timing. crazy as hell. end of an era </3

#rtah #rt discourse #um.txt

[ingravinoveritas]

Not Radio Times writing an entire article focused on Michael and David kissing and adding things like this. I see you, Radio Times...

#david tennant #soft scottish hipster gigolo #michael sheen #welsh seduction machine #good omens #let's also remember that they called Michael and David a 'handsome couple' the night of the NTAs in 2021 #why does it feel like RT lowkey ships them #curiouser and curiouser #i would just love to know what in the hell is happening here #but either way i'm vibing #there is no heterosexual explanation for this #ineffable lovers #discourse

[yangsbandana]

the new bumbleby jacket is giving me fond memories of the #bumblebyjacketdisaster2k20,,, never forget,,,,,

#the way someone at the rt store hastily redid the caption #i think blake's name was spelled wrong #and 'rwby' was spelled as 'rwbyu' for some reason #it was insane #an incredible time #there was also discourse because of course there was #bumbleby

[nevzatboyraz44]

pencil used to be opened like this ✏️

قلم رصاص يفتح مثل هذا ✏️

eskiden kurşun kalem ✏️ bu şekilde açılırmış🙂

#pencil #videography #explorer #beautiful post #discourse #kara kalem #travel photography #turkish decorative arts #viral news #viral video #ruko boston blok rk02/38 kota wista #bloke finds chilling ‘death’ message etched inside his double pane shower screen and everyone’s saying the same thing #jalan hanjuang raya blok c3 nomor 24 rt 08 rw 19 #blokhaus #jalan dahlia raya blok a19 no. 09 #ruko boston blok rk 2 nomor 38 cibubur #video #istanbul #türkiye #travel #travel destinations #view #natural #manzara #doğa

[tumblezwei]

I don't usually check the comment section for Rwby for obvious reasons but man the one in cr for show is relatively positive for the most part. There's a couple of the typical "months vision" or "this show is just a empty shell of itself" naysayers here and there but the other people in the comments actually call them out and drive away their negativity instead of other before a negativity echo chamber

It's important to know that people do actually like this show. I heavily advise anyone that feels like they're alone in that feeling to just stop engaging in discourse and spend more time enjoying yourself.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing negativity and just closing the tab to do something else. Fandom discourse means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things, don't let it consume you.

#barring like #things that are about real people like RT's exploitation #that stuff you should at least be educated about #but like if you see someone saying the show went downhill bc they killed Adam or whatever #just scroll past they are not worth it #ask #anon #discourse tag

[coldgoldlazarus]

I feel like there's a lot of warranted RWBY criticism that winds up getting lost in the obnoxiously polarized discourse between the hatedom and fandom, and at this point I've learned to try to do better than that, shrugging off the bad takes, and actually listening to the good ones even when they're a bit overly harsh in their critique.

But there is one single post that does the rounds constantly that is my sole exception; seeing it always raises my blood pressure, and I have legit unfollowed a couple otherwise-innoffensive blogs over it; that fucking post of the gifs from Food Fight, captioned as "RWBY (2013-ongoing)"

#not a reblog #i dont give a shit #you can say what you want about the story #and you can say the early animation was jank #but this is such an unfair comparison #that gets worse the show goes on #the fucking rt animators are already #suffering in the trenches as it is #way more than they should ever have to #and I hate that people continue to insist #on ignoring or devaluing that #by pretending the animation is so much worse than it is #and comparing it to that crime against humanity #like what the fuck is wrong with you #fuck off #it wasnt funny then #and it definitely isnt now #rwby discourse

[that-thing-that-feeling]

Well thank goodness they addressed it:

#jonathan byers #wish the ST acct would RT #SMH it just says a lot how people went after Jonathan yet again #literally making things up #photo discourse

[yangxiaolongprotectionsquad]

RT’s official response to the many grievances of both former and present employees:

My thoughts under the cut (hopefully tumblr doesn’t fuck this up)

I’ve never really been a huge fan of RT outside of RWBY and a few other shows, so I can’t say I’m devastated or anything like that. However, it is incredibly disheartening to learn just how much shit everyone who works there has dealt with. Tbh, since its roots are in gamer culture, I expected it to be bad, but not THIS bad.

I’ve never really been a huge fan of RT outside of RWBY and a few other shows, so I can’t say I’m devastated or anything like that. However, it is incredibly disheartening to learn just how much shit everyone who works there has dealt with. Tbh, since its roots are in gamer culture, I expected it to be bad, but not THIS bad.

It’s fucking Texas, I expected there was discrimination, just not to this extent. Like, my expectations were low but holy fuck. The constant harassment of any minority within the company is disgusting. And please don’t take my words out of context—it’s one thing to be treated like shit but make a decent wage, but to also be severely underpaid or NOT EVEN PAID AT ALL??? Jesus Christ.

They weaselled their way out of EVERYTHING. And they continue to do so in their pathetic response, which is just 8 paragraphs of shirking any and all accountability. It doesn’t address SHIT. it’s a half-assed plea to keep giving them money. Between RT and WB just being complete fucking disgraces it’s exhausting and my heart goes out to anyone whose been mistreated by them.

The only silver lining I can possibly think of is that CRWBY (to my knowledge) is just as fed up/sick of RT’s refusal to treat workers with dignity. I know Michael and Gavin have both privately and publicly reached out to Kdin and have apologized for past dumbfuckery, and Kdin is an angel that deserves way better.

The company has a handful of genuinely honest, kind, and good individuals that seem to have their hands tied. But it still fucking blows because how the hell do I support CRWBY without RT? I’ve had this blog since 2016 and yeah I’ve been going through some burnout shit for a few years but I still and likely always will love RWBY.

I guess with no volume 9 yet we can try and put our heads together to figure that out. I don’t see a solution but goddamnit if there is one let me know. This was largely incoherent I’m sure, but I just wanted to say SOMETHING. Rant over.

#roosterteeth #rt #rwby #crwby #twitter #kdin jenzen #achievement hunter #rwby9 #discourse #please do note that every single issue pointed out is 100% true #there’s 100s if not 1000s of ppl who can and will back it up #animation #support kdin on twitch if you want

[19-bellwether]

Yeah... At this point I'd rather have no RWBY than Rooster Teeth's RWBY. My heart pangs for the writers, animators, and voice actors that have been put through this corporate hellscape. I hope they some day get the chance tell this story on their own terms.

#rwby #rooster teeth #discourse #very depressing #especially since rt seemed to be improving #but no that was just pr and theyre worse than ever

[url-is-url]

My high school nerd friends who got me into RWBY grew up to be incels.

With that in mind, this becomes less surprising.

#rwde #the rt discourse

[unrestrainedbalderdash]

The problem with discourse is that you can never tell if it's moral OCD or if you're genuinely a shitty person

#going onto who do i know this man and seeing loads of discourse about a character #from a videogame series that i love and was playing right that moment is not great #my brain's torn between going 'he's a really flawed character and in ebf5 he actually does character development and moves past them #and it isn't endorsing his fascism (but haven't played ebf2 and apparently in that one it's a lot... worse) #(but still things should be judged by the newest entry right?)' #and 'I'm just as bad as the people who play h*gw*rts l*gacy' #especially bc i'm just some clueless privileged white person from the bloody colonialism country #also i have pmt and that usually makes things feel a lot worse #so yay. fun. #vent #btw i'm using moral ocd in a genuine way not just being like oOh pEoPlE wItH dIsCoUrSe hAvE mOrAl oCd #sorry this post is a real downer #i won't do more discourse posting i promise (hopefully) #tw discourse #cw discourse

[tendergore]

Lolol at people’s rude ass comments on my reddit post in the RT subreddit where i just asked if anyone had a list of theater mode episodes without r*an h*ywood in it. 🤧 i’m so sad for y’all! karma’s coming for ya 😄

#anyways one lovely human helped me #rtah #rt discourse #um.txt

[fratboykate]

im gonna need y'all to go watch this trailer and...have a good laugh

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ill_be_watching_2023

#im just...gonna not say anything because im a good wholesome boi who starts zero discourse now but................ #kjlsdfhgjksdfhgjksdhfgjksdhfgkjsdhfgjkdshfgkjsdhfgkjsdhfgjkshdfgjkhsdfgjkshdfgkjhsdfkgjhsdfkjghdfkgjhsdkfgjhdlkfjglhsdjkfghdskjfghdlfjsfg #watch it on rt to not give it views anywhere if we know...Those People we know they're inflating views all over the place lol #but PHEW LORD HAVE MERCY #THE SELF RESTRAINT IM SHOWING RIGHT NOW #i really should invent the technology to give y'all a glimpse into my thoughts because im having a ball #it was the chaser i needed after this SX disaster im having to stomach because im a loyal bitch to megamind #its just...so fucking funny fam its really just so funny #me being able to stay quiet right now is what we truly call ✨GROWTH✨ #vids

[tinkkles]

I can't keep up with the RT drama anymore I miss when the hottest gossip was that gavin actually won wool

#every employee past and present has made a statement at this point and its a lot #my hot take is that the years-old slur discourse is detracting from the pay discourse #and giving rt an easy out to be like 'look at our d&i groups!' #but also anyone who watched early rvb and early ah should not be surprised those people thought slurs were funny off camera #the issue is the work culture not whether or not geoff was a good person 6 yrs ago (he definitively and by admission was not)

[mortysmith]

i have got to stop posting on twitter like seriously

#it is insane how stupid people are #it is genuinely abnormal like in the ram fandom specifically #i be like proshp dni. and fhen they interact #i am very public about not wanting rckrts anywhere near me and STILL everytime EVERY TIME i post ram fanart #they are there. my likes my rts my follows. whyyyyyyy #its absurd to me #sorry im frustrated by this like genuinely #i tend to not care abt pro/anti discourse in the sense that like. i have friends irl and i know how to turn off my phone #i wouldnt even label myself an anti i think its stupid but if i say stuff like 'prship dni' #then it (FOR THE MOST PART) keeps away the people i dont want to see #ughghgggghhhhhhh. whatever man i dont wanna see incest. how does that make me a bad person to these people its crazy #they act like i come to their house i knock over their shit i kill their families etc. I JUST dont wanna see that shit😭😭😭 #ok whatever. i am over it. i hate the ram fandom its part of the reason ive felt sooo demotivated/uninterested in the show lately #esp post full meta jackrick. blegh #on tumblr im lucky to at least have some circle of friends/mutuals but twt is just sooooooooo crazy annoying