#RWBY Discourse

[hadesisqueer]

Lmao this guy (if y'all are on twitter you know who it is)

First of all, “devolved into a grumpy bitch”. Like lmao the misogyny jumped out. Sorry Yang has more character traits than just being a blonde funny party girl with big tits and that she actually has a personality and a backstory.

Also his great idea “hey guys! If instead of having the bad idea of Yang getting with Blake—her teammate and a character whose arc is directly connected with hers—the writers were good and Yang got with one these clearly better choices, who would it be?” *Proceeds to put two of Yang's friends who already had love interests in the show and two other guys with whom Yang has interacted maybe twice in the show*

Also, I really like the implication that it would only be good writing if Yang dated a guy! Like, obviously, even if it wasn't Blake, Yang dating another female character, like Weiss or Nora, would be terrible writing too, because what's really bad about the writing apparently is that Yang is sapphic and not dating a boy.

Like lmao.

#sorry but it's just so stupid that it's funny #rwby #yang xiao long #blake belladonna #weiss schnee #sun wukong #neptune vasilias #lie ren #nora valkyrie #rwby discourse #bumbleby

[coldgoldlazarus]

I can't believe I have to make this fucking post but here we go

What Neo did to Ruby was cruel and awful and fucked-up and unforgivable. Ruby didn't deserve to have that done to her.

What the Cat did to Neo is also awful, fucked-up, and generally horrific. Neo, even after all of that, didn't deserve that either.

These statements can coexist.

You can hate Neo for what she did, and believe me I get it, but acting like other people are somehow excusing that if they still feel any sympathy for her is like, not the approach to take. Yeah I'll agree that there's no "greyness" to Neo's revenge, but I don't care for this punitive sentiment I'm seeing in some corners.

#not a reblog #rwby #rwby9 #rwby spoilers #villains are problematic news at 11 #fates I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy #nuance =/= greyness #also redemption =/= forgiveness #also this shouldn't need to be said #but before someone willfully misinterprets my post #the other handful of people in the opposite corner #cheering on Neo's plan and calling it a W #are also just being assholes #rwby discourse

[zcricketz]

Scrolling on twitter and this mess came on my for you. And this is exactly why I never take anyone who thinks the show is ruined seriously because this is what they think would save the show smh

#rwby #rwby fandom #rwby discourse #critics #am i surprised? no

[currantlee]

A few comments on a recent post about RWBY I made got me thinking about something. Basically, I think that Rooster Teeth – and possibly by extension its parent companies – have artificially inflated RWBY as a media project and franchise rather than letting it grow organically. Therefore, it became a bubble that was bound to burst at some point. RWBY might never have been a profitable IP, which might be very relevant for its future.

This is not a problem that arose after Monty Oum‘s passing, I feel like this was already coming before that. Shane Newville‘s open letter (which absolutely comes from an emotional, mentally unwell state of mind, but has had many of its contents confirmed over the years, even beyond being one of the first descriptions of the toxic work environment at Rooster Teeth) makes a few points that support this impression. Whether you agree with the letter or not, you cannot deny that the first two volumes of RWBY, while they also had merch accompanying them and stuff, were not produced following industry standards – starting with the 3D software used, Poser Pro (Monty Oum‘s preferred tool for animation). This led to some really creative animation work that, while not always high-quality by industry-standards, was certainly pushing boundaries. It was creative and it worked for what RWBY was: a passion project created by someone who saw animation as his strongest suit – as his preferred medium to tell a story. I‘ve seen a lot of people claim that Monty Oum wasn‘t a writer, and while that‘s true, I feel like the implication of that statement is always that he couldn‘t tell stories on his own. I don‘t think that‘s true. I think Monty Oum was a great storyteller when it came to expressing certain things through animated action scenes. It‘s just that he wanted to tell a story that included more than just that and a few lines of dialogue – which is where Miles Luna and Kerry Shawcross come in, two at the time very inexperienced writers (who possibly had a fallout with Monty Oum over creative differences later), as well as some talented folks – people like Shane Newville. They were chosen to work on this because Monty Oum acknowledged their potential and liked to work with them, and I feel like that created an environment where they were really allowed to flourish. Volumes 1 and 2 are certainly not flawless, but I feel like I can tell the people making it had fun.

To Rooster Teeth however? I think RWBY (and by extension, Monty Oum as a creator) might have been little more than assets to them. RWBY was first created around a time when RT first tried to be more like, well, an actual company. At least from 2014 onward, but possibly even earlier than that, this included an effort to conform to industry standards more, mostly in order to be able to hire more people – very visibly so in RWBY in the form of the switch to Maya (my opinion about that is, the way they did it didn’t do RWBY any favors at all). I think they saw RWBY and Monty Oum as an opportunity to appear… More important, bigger, than they ever really were.

So what did they do? Again, I kind of have the feeling that they “upscaled” RWBY to a size where it appears like this big thing, but it became far too much to handle. Essentially, they created a mock giant, or a metaphorical quasi-star: something that can appear big from afar, but is actually very small / unstable (and if we go with the quasi-star metaphor, disturbs all of its surroundings). This is what I mean when I say that RWBY was a bubble bound to burst, because no star lives forever – and quasi-stars can only exist under very specific, very unstable conditions (I linked a Kurzgesagt-video in case you’re interested what exactly a quasi-star / black hole star is / was, cosmology is so fascinating IMO). Once these conditions exist no longer, they both fall apart and collapse into the black hole that is their core at the same time.

My main argument for this is that RWBY was essentially a huge money sink for RT (Source: Barbara Dunkelman’s unprofessionalism). They pumped so much money into this… Perhaps even more than they ever made from it. While this isn’t 100% confirmed, it is very much possible (and IMO not exactly unlikely) that RWBY was never profitable — which it might have been if RT hadn’t been so hellbent on creating the illusion of a multi-million-dollar franchise.

This is purely speculative, but this might also be why Volume 10 was never greenlit. We know that Volume 9 was to a significant part funded by Crunchyroll and in fact would not have been possible without them (probably because RT was already out of money at this point). They might have bought into this mock giant, then realized they had pretty much been scammed once Volume 9 aired. This might have led to Crunchyroll’s unwillingness to fund another season for something they knew now was effectively a money sink. Since RT at this point lacked the funds to produce Volume 10 alone and therefore was dependent on investors like Crunchyroll and Warner Brothers… Volume 10 was never greenlit, no matter how hard they attempted to get their fans’ hopes up and start a hashtag campaign on social media (as far as I remember, that was started by Rooster Teeth, not the fans. I don’t have my Twitter account anymore though, so I can’t check). Again though, this is speculation.

The worst part? This refusal of RT to just… Downscale RWBY again, this determination that it had to be this huge franchise… Was all put on the backs of the creatives working on it. We know at this point, from multiple sources, that RWBY and other RT productions have had an incredible amount of crunchtime, working overtime, employee abuse, … going on behind the scenes, which seems to only have gotten worse after Monty Oum’s passing. At the end of the day, all RT does and has ever done is blame others for their incompetence. Like, no shit, I’ve seen fans claim that it’s the FNDM’s job to “keep the show alive” (particularly in the light of #GreenlightVolume10), which… No, that’s not the fans’ job. It’s the job of the company who has been entrusted with this beloved IP, and said company has proven to be utterly incompetent on multiple occasions, which is unfortunate, but a sad reality for all those who love RWBY. And while Rooster Teeth has never directly said such a thing, they have certainly implied it and taken advantage of the existing sentiment within their fanbase, as well as their parasocial relationship with it (again, see #GreenlightVolume10 for reference).

To clarify, I’m not saying none of this would have happened if RT didn’t insist on making RWBY this big franchise (and biting off far more than they could chew in the process) – again, RT was far too notoriously incompetent at everything a company should manage – but I do think it might have played a role. It also isn’t an excuse for all the employee abuse. Again, what they should have done is downsizing the project, not inflating it further and further.

If I’m not somehow completely in the wrong (because IMO this just makes way too much sense to not be at least partially true – but let’s face it, a lot of this is just me connecting dots, and there is always a chance I’m connecting them wrong, even though I don‘t think so), then it kinda blows my mind that there are still people who believe in this scam. Though I will say, emotional attachment can do that to anyone. If anything, I’m honestly sorry that those folks lose something that means so much to them, and that false promises were made to them.

At the end of the day, the story of RWBY (the “franchise”) is twofold. It’s a story about an incredibly talented creator who passed away far too early, who was given the incredible opportunity to make his dream come true. It’s a story of people he trusted taking up his torch, and maybe getting lost in the dark along the way. It’s an inspiring story regardless, and I hope to see it continued at a downsized scale so it can grow organically, preferably in the hands of an indie animation studio like Dillon Goo (🤞)

But it is also a cautionary tale to both creatives and companies who employ them, a tale about false promises, abuse of both employees and fans, as well as how to not run a project. Don’t blow your thing out of proportion too early, don’t create a mock giant / metaphorical quasi-star. Let your ideas and projects grow and flourish organically and sincerely.

#RWBY #Rooster Teeth #RT Shutdown #Rooster Teeth Shutdown #Corporate Meddling #Theorizing #Speculation #Behind the Scenes #Rooster Teeth‘s corporate incompetence #Rooster Teeth toxicity #Monty Oum #Shane Newville #Shane‘s Letter #Open Letter to All who Treasured Monty Oum #RWBY Volume 10 #RWBY Volume 9 #RWBY V9 #RWBY V10 #Greenlight Volume 10 Meta #RWBY Discourse #RT Discourse #RT Critical #Does this count as RWDE? #Anyway #RWDE #Currantlee here

[dextixer]

The hypocritical Woobification of Raven Branwen

I dont think it is a secret to anyone who has followed any RWBY discourse, that female characters are treated VERY differently from male ones in the wider fandom, especially in regards to the morality of their actions. I dare anyone who wishes to enter the words like "Raven" "Ironwood" "Adam" "Cinder: and the like into the search bar of websites like twitter and even Reddit to some extent. What you will find more often than not, besides fan-art and porn are discussions about these characters.

After browsing through these discussions one can quickly notice a pattern. Ironwood and Adam are either demonized or have complicated discussions surrounding them. While characters like Raven and Cinder, while having their detractors mostly have discussions focused on shipping or on justifying/excusing their actions.

Raven Branwen is of course, the most iconic example of this.

Raven Branwen in Canon

In the canon of RWBY, Raven Branwen and her brother Qrow both hail from a bandit tribe. They were sent to Beacon to learn how to kill hunters where they learn the values of family and friendship, with team STRQ becoming close. Raven even marries Tai, her teammate and has a kid with him, then ditches him with the child and leaves Summer to come into the picture while Qrow remains an eternal bachelor.

It is revealed to us that Ozpins tendency to keep secrets is what lead Raven to losing trust and leaving the side of good. That, and feat of Salem who she knows is immortal and thus cannot be killed directly.

She returns to her bandit tribe and becomes a bandit queen, killing entire villages for loot and plunder. One of which we can see in the show.

Her becoming a bandit is not something that was thrust upon her, she was not forced to do it or anything of the sort. She chose to do it under her own volition.

Her only "redeeming" point is not being allied to Salem and having a "I will save you once" rule with those she knows and nothing more.

And yet...

Raven Branwen in Fanon

If we were to follow the most common discussions of Fanon then Raven is a tragic lesbian who could never be with Summer, a mother who understood her limits and wanted her daughter to have a better life than with her and who was forced into the position of providing for her tribe and had absolutely no choice but to raid villages for survival of her poor tribe.

If people arent thirsting over Raven herself and or her "romance" with Summer then one can always find many excuses and people calling her a "tragic" and "understandable" figure. They will say that "Shes not perfect" and things like that when in reality, Raven Branwen is just a straight up evil person in the story. Complicated? Yes. Evil? Also yes.

Her only saving grace is that most of the time she is not an antagonist. And she is not related to Salem and in fact would oppose her if she wasnt a coward. And yet, her actions, her being a literal murderous bandit seem to be ignored by a lot of the fandom.

The same fandom that will give shit to Ironwood for bringing 3 airships to Vale and calling it a "military occupation" and Adam wanting to blow up a train (with its crew) will then turn around and pretend that Raven killing innocent villages for shits and giggles on her own volition never happened.

They will cry about how Ironwood and Adam never deserved redemption! How they are deeply evil and have always been deeply evil people, while convincing everyone that Raven is perfect for redemption and was just "forced" to be a bandit queen.

The hypocricy of the RWBY FNDM is staggering, but not news.

What is worse however is how Raven is seemingly receiving the same if not even faster way of redemption that Emerald has. By now most people have probably seen both the RWBY:Beyond first episode and of course the ending animatic. And who else is there in Vacuo if not Raven. Shes just there. Like she just belongs amongst the heroes despite being a literal BANDIT QUEEN.

Despite Ironwood and Adam turning evil they had a good cause at the end of the day. A cause they wanted to fight for.

And instead the people praise and want the redeption of a terrorist who worked for Salem and a literal bandit queen, both of whom did the things they did out of selfish needs? Seriously?

Whats worse is that it seems that CRWBY is more than okay with that. It seems that this is at least currently one of their goals. Which to me is just staggering.

Conclussion i guess

Sorry for the ranty nature of this post. I know that im preaching to the choir but i just needed to get this out of my chest after seeing 10000000000000 posts about Raven and Summer fucking on twitter. Because yeah, THATS Ravens most identifying feature, being a girlkisser. After fucking years of being called a fascist and a bootliker for simply saying that Ironwoods heel turn was shittily done and that SOME of his plans were good it fucking maddens me to see people simp for a literal BANDIT QUEEN without push-back.

#rwby #rwde #rwby discourse #rwby discussion #rwby fandom #rwby fndm

[iamafanofcartoons]

That disgusting Critter just made a new hate video about how RWBY fails at using its cast. Of course an idiot like her would say that. Not every single character in a show matters. And of course she says that a racist like Cardin should get more screen time in the show.

There is a word people have for somebody like her.

The Female version of Hero Hei.

But anyone who says that Cardin should get more screentime , or god forbid Adam? That's a red flag.

Why the hell do people keep insisting on shipping cardinxvelvet or wanting cardin and velvet on the same team?

And here I thought Tauradonna fans were sick in the head.

Here

Here's a counter-video, a video explaining how RWBY actually uses its characters well.

Thanks to @tumblingxelian

#rwby #rwby discourse #why can't we have nice things #some people live to hate

[zerm2v0hg]

When I think about it, the Red Prince could've been a better Big Bad for RWBY Volume 9, if the writers writing these characters were more self-aware of HOW AND WHY Team RWBY were in the wrong and so unsympathetic in the last several volumes.

The Red Prince is bratty, entitled, immature, narcissistic, and he lashes out in destructive ways to harm those around him if he can't get what he wants under his own terms. He was expected to grow into something less vulnerable when he ascended in the face of personal trauma, but instead his trauma and lack of sufficient guidance have made him regress more than he's grown, into an even more flawed person than the one he started off as. His underlings are basically sycophants who kiss up to him and sing his praises instead of telling him what he needs to hear, making him think the whole world should bow to his word and accept that he knows better than everyone else. And like any bratty child, he always thinks he's in the right and refuses to hear otherwise.

All these things IMO makes the Red Prince a really good mirror image of how the main heroes have been acting and behaving as the show has declined up to the latest volume. The Red Prince in an alternate Volume 9 rewrite/fix fic could be a primary volume-long foil representing what Team RWBY have been up until their fall into the Ever After and what Team RWBY have to move past before they can leave.

Maybe the Red Prince could ally with Neo in a Big Bad Duumvirate, providing her his kingdom's resources and massively expanding her influence in the Ever After in her pursuit of Ruby. As for where the Curious Cat would fit into this change in the Big Bad Ensemble... either they're a more grey character or antihero in this AU, OR the reveal of the Cat's true colours is reserved for a later volume after they've successfully accompanied RWBY/J to Remnant in their quest for answers.

@dragynkeep @mylittlerwde @insaneoddball @doomalade @lucy-dont-give-a-fuck @i-hear-a-sound

#rwby #rwby discourse #rwby9 #rwby volume 9 #rwde #red prince #what if

[armenianwriterman]

Yo real talk, why is it that whenever I see people who act like anyone who engages positively with RWBY and wants to see more of it means that they don't care about the crew or are just as bad as the abusive executives, they almost always turn out to be into media that's made by companies that are just as, if not more evil then rooster teeth, with no irony whatsoever?

Like I agree, fuck Rooster Teeth, it's an awful corporation (like most corporations) and I hope everyone involved with the abuse gets exactly what they deserve. But I'm getting really sick of being told that I'm a bad person for liking a show made by people with abusive corporate overlords by people who are fans of Activision games and the like.

#venting #rwby discourse #rwby #rooster teeth

[sparksly-mage-of-light]

Rwby Twitter was starting to make me feel like the only fan that liked hbomberguy's Rwby video, but revisiting the video makes it clear that they're purposefully misrepresenting his arguments.

Edit: Ah, seems that it's not just on twitter. Oh well.

#rwby #rwby discussion #rwby discourse #hbomberguy

[farsight-the-char]

Been seeing discourse about Adam Taurus again, and what he represents.

Do people not understand he is the Gaston to the Blake/Yang’s “Beauty and Beast”?

Adam was beloved by the White Fang, just as Gaston was beloved by his town, because neither Town nor White Fang knew of his true nature as a misogynist.

Adam and Gaston could have their choice of women, but they wanted the Bella, the one they could not have.

They both died falling off a cliff because of their own Hubris.

Like, RWBY is not subtle about it.

#rwby #adam taurus #blake belladonna #yang xiao long #beauty and the beast #the beauty and the beast #bumbleby #rwby discourse #anti rwde

[anthurak]

Okay, I'm just going to come out and say my ONE truly major gripe with this finale: WHY did they have to de-age Jaune?

I mean I generally really don't like to throw out terms like 'wasted potential', but dammit Old!Jaune was just so INTERESTING! It represented this totally NEW dynamic for the character going forward. Something that would drastically alter all of his relationships that would be interesting to see himself and everyone else adapt to.

And what was the POINT of de-aging Jaune? Like in Ruby's case while I'm a bit bummed we didn't get some kind of cool transformation and new look for Ruby, I also recognize that Ruby choosing to be 'Ruby' as it plays out makes perfect sense for her character and her arc. It might not be what I may have been personally hoping for, but it totally WORKS for Ruby.

In contrast, the way Jaune gets de-aged feels rather tacked-on in a rather 'duel-ex-machina' fashion. It turns out Alyx 'left something' for him and 'POOF', now he's young again. Like that's it.

And again I really have to ask WHY did Jaune need to be de-aged? Like what was the PROBLEM with Jaune staying old? Again contrasting with Ruby, her rejecting the option to become 'someone else' and instead choose to be 'herself' is the fitting climax and resolution to her arc this volume. But Jaune already got his big character resolution this volume! He didn't need to be given this big change because he was ALREADY changing for the better.

It feels like the writers gave Jaune this interesting new aspect to his character this volume, and then just... took it away at the end. Regardless of whether Jaune still has the memories and 'growth' he underwent in the Ever After, it still feels like the writers just hit a reset button on him.

And while I don't believe this destroys Jaune's character, this development still ultimately feels like a net-negative. In contrast to what happened to Ruby this episode, Jaune getting de-aged feels like it just made him less interesting, rather than more.

#rwby #rwby spoilers #rwby volume 9 #jaune arc #rwby rambling #rwby discourse #my ONE actual gripe with the volume 9 finale #we should have gotten to keep Old Man Jaune

[hadesisqueer]

Oh god not “is Adam actually Gaston” discourse in 2023

#rwby #rwby discourse #adam taurus

[coldgoldlazarus]

For as awful and vicious as Neo's plan was, as understandable as people being pissed off over it is, I swear every take I see that she's irredeemable now or that she deserved becoming the Cat's victim make me want to defend her out of spite

#not a reblog #rwby #rwby9 #rwby spoilers #rwby discourse #neopolitan rwby #maybe this is just my personal bias talking #because I'm already inclined to go to bat for problematic girlbosses #but people really are out here just being very onboxious too #heavy is the burden #of supporting women's wrongs

[werewolf-cuddles]

One of my least favourite parts of the RWBY fandom is people insisting that Yang can't possibly be anything other than a lesbian, acting like even entertaining the idea of her being bi or pan is lesbophobic.

Like, you bring up that Yang has shown attraction to guys at least once, they'll write it off as "comphet" or some other excuse to claim it doesn't count.

Seems to happen with a lot of characters who show attraction to more than one gender while not being explicitly labelled as bisexual, especially if they end up in a relationship with someone of the same gender.

#biphobia #bi erasure #bisexual erasure #rwby discourse #fandumb #fndm wank

[the-incorrigible-chaia]

The RWBY Thing

So, here's my two cents, as a longtime RWBY fan.

First off, fuck Rooster Teeth. They're a shitty, exploitative company, and they suck.

Secondly, obviously real peoples' lives are more important than a cartoon show.

But I've seen a sort of vindictiveness around this that's kind of weird? And I'm noticing that the wishes of the people who were mistreated are kind of being talked over.

I think sometimes it helps to take a breath and look back on what, exactly, the point of any particular boycott is. In this case, there are no unionizing workers, because it's nearly impossible to unionize in Texas, and most of these workers were leaving for better work anyway. Moreover, if we look at the parting statements of the workers who left, and the statements from the ones who are still there, not one of them have called for a boycott or piracy (as far as I'm aware. If I'm wrong, please let me know in the replies!)

In fact, several of them have wished CRWBY the best, and expressed support for the show to continue. And I think that if we're expressing rage at a company for how it treats its employees, it's pretty important to center what those employees want.

I haven't had a FIRST account since October 2020. I'm all for people cancelling their FIRST accounts, I think that does send a message. But if we want to support the animators without supporting Rooster Teeth, well, someone outright asked an animator how to do that on Twitter, and they replied.

So, that's pretty clear-cut, coming from one of the animators. I get that people are angry - hell, I'm still pissed at Rooster Teeth. But this isn't a Hogwarts Legacy situation. As someone on one of the many Discord servers I'm in put it,

if you buy HP stuff you're giving JKR money to lobby for anti-trans causes. If you pay for RT First you're giving RT execs money to buy a beer they don't really deserve

This is a labour issue, and so, as in any labour issue, the first step is to defer to the workers. And as far as I can see, none of the workers have asked people to boycott or pirate the show, but rather have asked us to watch it on Crunchyroll. I'm not buying any merch for this show, or anything from the Rooster Teeth store ever again, and I'm certainly not paying for RT FIRST. But that's for my own personal sense of integrity, and it's not a collective action or effective protest.

If you want to hurt Rooster Teeth (which on some level I do too, for treating the people who make my favourite show like garbage), then pirate or abstain from the show. I'm not going to judge anyone for doing so.

But if you want to help the animators who work on the show, then actually listen to them: watch the show on Crunchyroll (especially if you already have a CR Premium account, like I do), donate to the Ko-Fis and Patreons of the people who've left, and if you live in Texas, push for pro-union policies and politicians so that things like this don't happen again.

#rwby #rooster teeth #rwby discourse

[dextixer]

There is no point in discussing Ironwood/Atlas in the fandom.

Since Volumes 7-8 the way that Ironwood and Atlas were written, their actions, whether they were justified or to what extent they were justified and the like have been discussed to death. There is no stone that has not been overturned, no statement that has not been made, no argument that has not been disected.

Regardless of ones stance on the subject, there is nothing left to discuss, the only thing left at best is sharing ones interpretation and opinions on it with people willing to engage with them. Or it would be, if there were actually such people left.

Around a week ago, against my own better judgement i once again engaged in an Ironwood discussion, something that i have mostly avoided for nearly a year, and i got just the right reminder as to why exactly there is no point in discussing it with members of the FNDM, and especially the fanatics.

They do not care about the show, how its told, what it told us. What they care about is to show how "moral" and "morally upstanding" they are by repeating the same mantra over and over. "Team RWBY are heroes, Ironwood is a fascist.", its both to show how morally "good" they are and also to protect the writing of a product that they love, because their beloved product possibly being deficient would be seen as a personal attack on their taste.

Lie and Lie again, if that doesnt work, lie once more

One of the most important factors in having any discussion is for both of the people talking to not only be truthful with one another but also agree upon some level of common ground that a disagreement comes from. In the case of RWBY, an Animated show, one has to agree with what is canon, what we can see in the story, from where on we can start arguing about interpretations. The problem however is that many people in the fandom, in regards to Ironwood especially, do not care about canon.

This being one of many examples. Since as far back as Volume 7, when we saw Ironwoods forces, everyone could look back to Volumes 2-3 and see that Ironwood brought 3 airships to Vale, a small detachment for the security of the festival.

Yet time and time again, RWBY fans refer to it as an "army", implying some kind of excessive force, in fact, some people in the past have went as far as saying that Ironwood was MILITARILY OCCUPYING Vale with his forces, i am not kidding.

But the most often directly lied about scene is of course the scene of Ironwood abandoning Mantle. In the show, after seeing the chess piece, he encounters a seer left behind in his office, this seer allows him to talk to Salem who pretty much tells him she is coming, which is then confirmed by the Ace Ops saying that the Grimm sensors have ceased working. That is canon. And yet, many a RWBY fan often pretends that Ironwood takes his decision after seeing the chess piece and "conveniently" ignore the chat that Ironwood has with Salem.

Fans of RWBY will not hesistate to lie about the canon itself to make their point, for people who claim to appreciate the shows writing, they will often directly ignore or even contradict it just so that they could hold true to their moral obligations.

But what happens when lying doesnt work?

Misdirect, Motte and Bailey and bad faith

When direct lying fails, RWBY fans will often take a different stance, instead of directly talking about canon, they will instead make the most bad faith assumptions and arguments imaginable.

This often takes form in Omissions or other less direct types of lies. Many times, it wont even be lies, but the most riddiculous arguments that they dont themselves believe.

For example, saying that soldiers helping to protect an event from terrorists is a stupid move.

In Volume 7, one of the earliest things we see happen is that Ironwoods forces are fighting against Grimm, the Sabyrs when they breach into Mantle, after which Penny shows up to assist in cleaning them up. And yet, fans of RWBY will say that these soldiers were not meant to protect people against Grimm, they were meant to abuse the citizens of Mantle.

The same goes for the curfew that also gets established in that same Volume. It is done explicitly for peoples protection. They instead say that its to control people, implying that the threat of Grimm isnt real? Which is exceedingly funny since COVID lockdowns happend near the same time, which were also curfews that meant to protect people.

Ironwood shooting Oscar is also a key part of such misdirections. Often times when RWBY fans talk about Ironwood shooting Oscar they refer to him as a "child" a "defenseless child", conveniently ignoring the Ozpin shaped hole in his brain.

This is yet another form this takes. Strawmanning and of course, the reference to "Ironwood runs away" argument, which they hold as true despite the show never stating it ever. They take Ironwood statement that Atlas will always stay out of Salems reach as a direct statement that Atlas will just rise and stay away. And not for example become a flying city which is also a possibility.

This is also another example of dishonest arguments. RWBY fans pretend that Ironwood is classist, that he only wanted to save the rich and leave everyone else to die. Despite the fact that Ironwood ordered Mantle to be evacuated into Atlas and only wanted to leave to save as many people as he could regardless of status. And yet, they have to pretend that he only cares about the "rich".

But the most often seen tendency among RWBY fans in regards to argument is something else.

Doulethink

Doublethink is acceptance of two contrary opinions being right at the same time due to ideological reasons. For example, decrying someone as weak when convenient and as strong at the same time.

And RWBY fans love this type of argumentation, especially with Ironwood.

As shown before in a picture, they pretend that Ironwood only cared about the rich. And yet they also argue that as a fascist he hates and controls the rich by how he treats Jacques.

They will both pretend that Ironwood is a sociopath who wants to control the world and at the same time will claim how sorry they feel about his PTSD and how he clearly should have been thrown out of the army due to it.

Ironwoods prosthetics both show how he suffered so much and should have been told to sit out due to his clear mental issues, yet at the same time those prosthetics prove and show how evil he is, how he wants to replace his body with metal because he wants to be an unthinking machine.

They will pretend to care about how Ironwood holds 2/5 seats on the Atlas council, decrying how UNDEMOCRATIC he is being, yet at the same time, when convenient they will constantly bring up how Ironwood did not ask for Ozpins persmission for his actions in V2-V3. They pretend that he usurped Ozpin despite Ironwood acting directly under Vales council.

As shown in this exchange. The cries for "democracy" quiet down all of a sudden when people take Ozpins side against Ironwood. Suddently, the opinion of the council doesnt matter, only Ozpin does. Oh and this is also an example of how they will change the topic once an argument is lost.

Oh, and of course, their favourite is in regards to team RWBY.

Who are at the same time both small teenagers who know no better and cannot be judged for their actions because they are smoll beans uwu.

And they are also literal jesus.

Because NOTHING says "we are being honest" when the protagonists are amazingly "weak" and "smoll" uwu beans whenever anyone criticizes them for making shit decisions for entire COUNTRIES which they CHOSE to do. And at the same time those protagonists are amazing badass girbossing jesus-like heroes who everyone should worship.

Ending word

I guess what im trying to say is that there is simply no point or hope in arguing about Ironwood, or hell, even arguing with RWBY fans in general unless you are in relatively neutral spaces with people who are willing to listen. They will lie, if they cant lie they will misdirect, and they will never be honest about their beliefs. Because their true beliefs are only "RWBY is good and what it attempts to say is correct". Nothing else matters. RWBY is good. Its messages (no matter how mangled they are) are good.

And to protect those beliefs RWBY fans will do ANYTHING. Because just like religious fanatics, they have faith, a belief, and nothing will stop them. If you oppose them, you are everything they think is evil. If you accept their words uncritically, then you are now a "friend".

#rwde #rwby #rwby fandom #rwby fndm #rwby discourse #rwby discussion