#Cast of spn ship destiel

[deanwasalwaysbi]

Phil Sgriccia, director of spn 4x02, speaking on SPN Then & Now, as Dean in that episode: Dean doesn't give [Sam], "Oh by the way, I had this dream sequence with the good looking guy in the trenchcoat."

Cool. cool cool cool.

#spn cast ships destiel #bi dean truthing #phil sgriccia #dean was always bi #destiel was always canon

[acesammy]

Started posting my art to twt again but I forgot that spn twt feels like a PVP enabled zone to me

#Oof I hate it #here I just have wincest and destiel blacklisted and it’s nice #it’s peaceful #I feel no need to click to reveal posts I don’t want to see so it works out #but there man idk shippers everywhere #and I don’t really want to engage w them but i haven’t reliably used twt in like 3 years so I accidentally responded to someone there lol #that I didn’t want to #thought I was replying to just one person lmao #AND #if it’s not shippers #it’s ppl who are obsessed with the cast #and I am neither of those things #I find both groups p insufferable too #there was a time like 6+ years ago where I cared abt the cast but that has LONG since past #Anyways spn twt has always been hard for me bc I genuinely prefer to talk about the /show/ #or Sam headcanons #not the cast or the ships #lea speaks #Anyhooooooo #Vent #Also idk it kinda sucks bc I really love elton twt but I have no elton content

[bookdork1]

how does one girl hold an entire school in such a choke hold she gets them to put on her fanfiction musical about a series of defunct cult classic penny dreadfuls

#i dont think anyone else involved in that musical knew anything at all about supernatural they were just like i'm so happy to have been cast #alkfjsalfsfsd #supernatural #spn #10x05 #also that girl was an enigma because she seemed fine with shipping either destiel or w***est who are you

[found--family]

i dont want to hear any complaints about a shortage of content bc of the strikes when theres 15 seasons of Supernatural to consume thats 327 episodes at 45minutes each of Dean Jackles Winchester and 12 seasons of Gayngel Castiel in the longest running tv fantasy series and one of the most meta-rich shows ever created from 2005 to 2020 the likes of which we will never see again with Destiel awarded best onscreen chemistry before it was canon and most popular ship on ao3 with over 100k fics plus a prequel series and hopes for a reboot and while we're talking you can also check out their other recent projects including award-winning Roadfood and The Boys and Big Sky and Gotham Knights and you might even enjoy over 400 vintage episodes of young jackles on Days Of Our Lives circa 1997 to 2000 and various other guest and spot and main appearances for Jensen and Misha on shows like Dark Angel and Dawson's Creek and Smallville and NCIS and 24 and Charmed and ER and Monk and Timeless and the masterpieces that are TSA America and The Plight of Clownana and movies like My Bloody Valentine and Devour and Ten Inch Hero and Stonehenge Apocalypse and Finding Home and Moving Alan and of course voicework of animated Batman and podcast Bridgewater and if thats still not enough you have 17 years (and counting) of convention footage and countless other projects the rest of the spn cast have appeared in so dont worry there is no shortage of content

#supernatural #destiel #spn #just do it #wga strike #sag aftra #anti ai #thoughts #gayngel #the jackles effect™ #dean winchester #castiel #misha collins #jensen ackles

[holybeejesus]

#supernatural #jensen ackles #jared padalecki #misha collins #dean winchester #sam winchester #castiel #destiel #supernatural cruise #spn #sabriel #sastiel #wincestiel #j2m #j2 #jenmish #cockles #spn cast

[eisforeidolon]

Despite the show ending 4yrs ago, Misha is still fixated on Destiel. He is now claiming that the writers and the cast were aware of destiel and he says he thinks the writers would play into it, and he said he doesn't think it's unfair to call it queerbaiting and said he wanted it to happen but he didn't think they would have the guts.

I wish I was surprised, but he has no integrity and literally nothing else to try and sell people on through his own laziness and short-sighted stupidity.

We've seen what his quote unquote acting deteriorated to by the end of SPN. On top of that, Castiel as a character decayed pretty badly and was given nothing but shitty half-assed storylines to pretty blatantly fill time. Meanwhile, Misha himself increasingly catered to D/C shippers and hellers, turning off not just the GA but fans of Castiel as more than half a fanon ship. So his only remaining fans that will give him money and follow him to any projects he might get? Are mostly D/C shippers and hellers. Given those givens, it's not surprising the vast majority of his post-SPN career (at least so far as I've seen) has been queerbaiting hellers on cameo and at cons and getting hellers to hire him for their projects. If having to come out as straight from baiting too blatantly didn't stop him? I'm pretty sure nothing will.

He said that same nonsense about the writers leaning into Destiel years ago - and Bob Singer and Jensen both said he was utterly full of shit. He himself said he never thought they'd actually play into it prior to season 15 - where he and Berens personally orchestrated the only thing I think could legitimately be called queerbaiting to make it into the show. They knew how the shippers would take that scene, knew the GA would not because the phrasing was pointedly left ambiguous, and knew it was Castiel's last scene. Yet they still did it.

The irony sure is something. An opportunistic, inconsistent, spineless weasel like Misha, accusing the show and showrunners of the shit mostly only he's actually done? The guy who knowingly lead fans on to sell ops/autos/cameos/merch, calling the show queerbaiting for Dean and Castiel sometimes making eye contact and that one pointedly ambiguous scene he pushed for? The guy who constantly changes his story depending on who is in the room, impugning the intentions of people who were clear and consistent the story was about the brothers' bond and the ship was a fanon thing all along? The guy who is too afraid of his own fans to be honest claiming the only reason an OOC nonsensical fanon ship wasn't written into the show was about not having "guts"? Which hilariously isn't even his own thoughts, just something he's parroting back that he knows his batshit fans want to hear? Oof. He does not get less embarrassing. Like, is reality actually going to ultimately outdo the baby-eater timeline? I guess we'll see.

#anti Misha #destiew

[lol-jackles]

tumblr /jenmishperceiver/747567018487726080/i-think-if-anything-put-the-final-nail-in-the> I've seen this assumption before and imo it's spin: Jensen said repeatedly that he told the group he wanted to think about the script, went home TO HIS WIFE and said he was uncomfortable, who then suggested calling Kripke, ect // In all the retellings, I've never actually seen it said Jensen fought with the writers OR EVEN TOLD THEM and Jared he was uncomfortable until AFTER he'd changed his mind to agreed

Bitter Destiel shippers are those kinds of people who fall for IRS telephone scams.

You're correct, Jensen never said in any of his retellings that he fought with writers nor did he tell them or Jared he's having a hard time "digesting" until AFTER he talked to Kripke and was convinced by Kripke that "Carry On" was the right ending for fans. You know, the real fans who watch the show for what it really is: Sam's hero journey with his beloved brother, Dean.

That said, while you're correct that it's Jensen's job to sell the concept, he has also been pitching a Dean-led spinoff for years. Remember his "dream" (X) that he pitched during the SPN press junket?   I didn’t side-eye his PCA campaigns or his pursuit for Dean-centric storylines, but I did raise my eyebrows at his ballsy move to publicly pitch his post-Sam projects in front of Jared and Misha. What does the jenmishperciever's Anon say about that? Hummm?

Actors are always pitching their project ideas, they're just a bit more subtle about it. I'm certain Jensen had hoped the "dream" would catch on with the fans and they would campaign for it. Except not even AAs were down with the idea. Casual fans even less so. Lucky for you I saved the screenshot from the article:

Reading through jenmishperciever's Anon's self-soothing fanfiction is like watching bread grow old right before your eyes; same delusions we've seen for the past 12 years. Blame Jared for playing Sam who was in the way of a fake fetish ship from becoming canon that Less than 1% of the SPN audience ships. Said Jared's drunken arrest (I refuse to call it a bar fight, it was a group hug gone wrong) could have threaten the ENTIRE filming of the SPN final season while ignoring Anthony Starr's drunken arrest, which by the Anon's logic, would have threaten the ENTIRE filming of The Boys.

Lol they still pretend to believe that Kripke gave the SPN rights to Jensen when Kripke is SUEING WB over profit participation over SPN.

The only thing Jensen cared about with his SPN spinoff was lens crafting, which was why The Winchesters was a Shein version of an AU fanfic. Remember when Jensen told TW cast “don’t fuck it up for me”? After 15-20 years, Jensen is used to lead actors/Jareds doing the heavy lifting in carrying the show and being leader of the cast and crew and he benefitted from the sweet spot as #2 on the call sheet i.e. the good guy who is friends with everyone.

If Jensen keeps trying to be in charge of SPN projects, SPN fans’ reaction is going to be the same as today Marvel fanboys’ reaction every time they hear Kevin Feige’s name: “What did you did do this time you Son of a Bitch!? What train did you derail this time?”

Since Supernatural ended 4 years ago, the bitter Destiel hellers and AAs are stuck in a time loop of step 1 through 4 of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression). S tep 5 is acceptance, which is long delayed due to Jared’s continue success i.e. Walker in it's 4th season and #1 scripted show for CW.

#anti destiel

[quickreaver]

Emptying my brain...

Recently, there was quite a kerfuffle in the SPN fandom, over the realization that several self-proclaimed “BNFs” had been Mean Girling fellow fans into hating on certain other fans and certain other members of the cast of SPN. Thoughts have been percolating around in my head about this for a bit. Here goes... There has already been some discussions of warning about how cult-like these tactics seem: the initial lovebombing, indoctrination, evolving into intimidation and threats if people don't fall in line. The hunger to belong and smug feeling of group-think is a helluva drug. The fear of losing favor and being ousted from the silo is also a helluva withdrawal. I wonder if there's a reason all these manipulative personalities, every one of them, have been from the Destiel quarter of the SPN family. Is it sheer numbers? Or does it begin with the selling of the ship as this monumental slow-burn greatest love story ever told (even though the show's actual canon does very little to support this fable)? The relationship between Dean and Cas has been romanticized to a legendary degree, and the fanon has become the preferred telling of the tale, replete with lengthy subtextual navel-gazing over lamps and fictional beer brands and artfully staged gif sets on tumblr. Every whiff of the show has been recontextualized to point to Destiel. A stroll through any given list of Destiel All-Time Fave Fics is chock full of AUs and characters that feel more like Any Two White Guys than the actual characters from SPN.

Maybe this primes D/C shippers to be more susceptible to grift, to believe anyone with charisma and confidence and leadership aspirations, who promises the fruition of some manner of Destiel endgame. Which, okay. I totally get how deeply we often feel about our fandoms and the dynamics, how we project onto the characters and idealize the ships as more than the show intended.

It'd be fine... if fans then didn't feel the need to evangelize for the ship and punish those who got in the way. Some groups have been actively attacking the cast and parts of our fandom for years, as well as making actual bank off it all. Under the guise of inclusion and camaraderie, they dangle paying admission into their sacred inner circles like worms on hooks. They took, and are continuing to take, money to offer glimpses behind the doors of their Patreons or special levels of their Discords, where those lucky customers would theoretically be honored with friendship (parasocial, much?), and gifted with the potential of supposed insider info, and/or proximity to the cast and crew at conventions. In return, that same congregation would be used as a tool to attack and discredit the parts of the SPN milieu that the grand poobahs dislike. They would be asked to buy their merch, to keep their secrets, to send hate mail to each other in order to place the blame on “the other side”, try to get competing fans (or even TV shows) canceled, carry the torches of hate, and the list goes on. I don't know where this is going exactly, but there's a difference between bickering over which ship has the best blorbos or whose fave is the most girlboss, and actively trying to generate a lemming-like mass of obedience, enough to impact the IRL health and well-being of other people. Fandom can rally to accomplish such good feats (and lord knows the companies and studios that own our favorite franchises have figured this out), but every coin has two sides. Just, be aware of which one you're on, I guess.

#thoughts on fandom cults #the whys and wherefores #spn fandom meta #quickreaverspeaks #and it's probably a bad idea #not exactly Destiel positive? #thoughtful wank

[riverstixxelf]

I love the SPN fandom but honestly it’s so stressful sometimes 😭

For example earlier today I googled “Misha Collins girlfriend” because I heard a rumor that he has a girlfriend, I couldn’t find much besides stuff talking about Vicky so I scrolled down and saw a tumblr post saying something about Misha being attracted to men (which I don’t necessarily disagree with, but I don’t want to tell another person what they are) and women so I clicked on it and it was a huge post (like, a couple paragraphs) talking about some strange things. I don’t remember exactly but at one point the user brought up the “fact” that Misha makes jokes about women and sex?? As in making jokes at the expense of women… and I was like… are we talking about the same Misha here? He DOES make jokes about sex but I don’t recall him ever making jokes at the expense of women. Only thing I can think of is that one story about one of his earlier acting jobs and he didn’t know the “no tongue rule” but that was mostly at the expense of himself. Then I scrolled and found another post that was pretty disturbing…

Someone had screenshotted a regular instagram caption that Jensen posted just talking about how he just got done traveling, he wanted to take a nap, something like that—nothing sexual about the post at all or anything that would suggest that—and someone captioned it with something talking about him and Misha rubbing their [babymakers] together??? I audibly laughed out loud because wtf 😭😭

I don’t want to shame Jenmish shippers (I say Jenmish because Cockles is just a… very interesting name), even though I think it’s the slightest bit strange to be shipping real people… but again I never want to put anyone down for anything because I myself have said some stuff about Jensen and Misha that might suggest something between them.

Another thing is just the amount of hate for various cast members. Mostly the hate I see is for Jared and Misha; J2 fans who hate Misha, Jenmish fans who hate Jared, etc. There’s a lot of love in this fandom but ohmygOD there’s so much hate too. I guess that’s true for any fandom, but it’s so tiring sometimes.

Also, in this fandom, you’ll get hounded for any opinion you have. If you don’t like destiel, you’re homophobic. If you do like destiel, you’re also homophobic for some reason because queer bating or whatever… for the record i’d like to state that I am a proud destiel shipper just fyi. But I see so many people take it to the extreme, make little things into big things or something along those lines. Same thing with cockles shippers I was talking about earlier. I feel like I have a pretty neutral viewpoint on stuff regarding destiel; I see most things how they are, and I make my assumptions based on CANON things. I don’t say “Dean and Cas are definitely fucking”, I say “Dean and Cas love eachother but they cant express it, because Cas wasn’t even sure what love was and Dean’s highest ideal of love is family, which is why he says Cas is like a brother to him”. Now, if you don’t agree with me, guess what… that’s okay! If you don’t think destiel exists, that’s a valid point, and i’m not gonna dox you just because you have a different opinion than me. Because that’s just it, it’s an OPINION.

I could get into Sam haters and Dean haters and stuff… but I’m tired. Actually, you know what, screw it. I WILL GET INTO IT!!!

I’ve had a few experiences with Dean haters especially, and most of the time they just ADORE Sam and thinks he’s done nothing wrong. Let me clarify that I don’t hate Sam- like- at all. Then again, Dean haters who happen to be Sam stans have warped my view on Sam a little, but I won’t let that get in my way of honest judgment.

Sam. has. done. bad. stuff. DEAN. has. done. bad. stuff. Please don’t compare their trauma, they both have their own issues, one isn’t better than the other.

I might be biased because I relate to Dean so much (like a crazy amount it’s not even funny…), but for the millionth time in a row I DO NOT HATE SAM. I saw someone saying how Dean was the cause of almost every single world-ending event that happened in SPN… like honey no. Another person replied to their comment listing all of the world-ending events… and guess what… Sam was the cause of most of them!! Does that make him a hate-worthy character? No!!

I don’t know what point i’m trying to make here. I just think there’s so much in-fighting within the SPN fandom and as much as I love being in the fandom sometimes you just gotta have a break from all the drama. If you made it this far… go outside or something don’t pay attention to me i’m chronically online.

#supernatural #destiel #jenmish #deancas #spn #discussion #idk how to tag this

[sailorsally]

Asking a „sense of life“ kind of question - So, why do we ship cockles? There is so much more „physical“ footage of misha and the other spn cast like kissing and intense hugging, let’s take Rob… why is it not Robisha (well, not in this extent)? Why is it Jensen and Misha, bc of destiel? What is it what cockles makes a difference to other relationships with the cast? Just me having another cockles-crisis, need. new. fluffy. cockles. content! Maybe we can have an analysis here 😅

This is a great question actually and I think it's due to two things:

1) we never got closure over destiel. I mean don't get me wrong, I know we aren't toddlers and very much understand object permanence and know that actors =/= their characters but I as a heller, have a primal need to see Dean & Cas together and happy and at this point Cockles is the only place I'm getting a knock off version of that.

Plus, to return to the topic of object permanence here, Supernatural is unlike any other show in regard that it is so closely intertwined with real world events - from the writer's strike causing Dean to go to hell and have a need for an angel to raise him to Destiel trending over US elections. And don't forget 'French Mistake' !

Frankly the topic of the later seasons - God being evil and trying to control Dean & Cas, Becky telling Chuck his ending sucks etc is impossible not to parallel with CW and the SPN fandom. So all these further blur lines between real world and tv show and make the Destiel - Cockles pipeline easier to race thru.

2) You pointed out correctly there is plenty of footage of Misha being flirty and vice versa with other cast members and yet, Cockles is the heaviest of hitters. Again, partly because they are the in-universe version of Destiel but also a big part of it is because their flirting feels different to when they are flirting with others.

For example I do like Rob & Misha, they are super cute together, I think they would make a cute couple and frankly I think if propositioned by Misha, Rob would go 100% with it (or would have gone before Ruthie). They have done silly grabs and shared plenty of kisses but none of it could turn my stomach the way one yearning look from Jensen towards Misha can.

Jensen & Misha's dynamic, as playful as it is most of the time, always feels incredibly high stakes. You put them next to their costars/friends and you can instantly tell there is something different going on between those two. I am really curious to experience them together in a room live this Purcon because I can just feel that different vibe from them in videos and keep wondering if it is real or even worse in person. For the lack of a better word, it feels like they are drawn to each other and unable to do much about it really. There is a degree of possessiveness they have for each other that is very subtle but also very akin to how lovers are about/with each other.

I think what perhaps makes us scratch our heads every now and then when it comes to these men is the sincerity with which they joke/fake kiss/etc. With others, it might be camp and might be queer but it's just until the punchline, until the audience laughs. But with Jensen and Misha it feels like their little flirty interactions are never for show or to make the audience laugh. If anything they are always extra silly to make each other laugh. It feels like in a way their silly and sweet onstage moments never end. After all, as Jensen said, he is living it.

So in conclusion I think that yes, a part of it is due to us kinda expanding Destiel into this world but also I think that we humans are pretty good at picking up signals and queues in other people's behaviour and a lot of people watching Jensen & Misha together feel like there is something there that they might be unable to name (*points at this rambly answer*) but that doesn't necessary mean they are wrong.

#sorry for this very long ramble #that literally says nothing #cockles #ask sally

[charmac]

I really liked your answer to that last anon! I just got into this fandom (and macden) and it's the first one I've been in many years. I was still a teen when I was kinda obsessed with shows like spn and bbc sherlock, and after those I just can't help but think that I'm once again just reading too much into the choices of the writers etc :/ like I want to believe my own eyes but I'm afraid to lol

What you have to try to remember (and constantly remind yourself) is that Sunny isn't like any other show, it's not Supernatural relying solely on Network demos to stay alive, and thus constantly feeding into bait to draw views, it's not a writers room completely removed from the actors.

The heart and soul of the show is completely, from the ground up, Rob, Charlie, and Glenn, in almost complete control. So when you see things the actors do in the show and you think "ugh I'm reading into this just like Destiel, those looks mean nothing, this is just the actors playing it up for..." For what? They've been renewed through 18, they don't even really rely on bringing in a large audience, it's FXX. They make this show for themselves, the audience is just a bonus.

Shows like Supernatural have teams that are often separate, so when something is written it might not be acted as the writers intended, which might not be edited as the actors and writers intended, which is all overseen by the Creator(s) and Producer(s), who have different visions and intentions for their show, which is heavily guided by what The Network allows/approved and believes will bring in views. So what you see in Credits is like any 'normal' show: Created by X, Produced by Y, Written by Z, Top billed cast: A, B, C. What happens with long-running shows like Supernatural, is that all the players develop different ideas and attachments over time, so you'll end up seeing the actors play their characters (and thus relationships) in a way that's a little different from the writers writing it and what the creator(s) want and what ends up in post is some conglomeration of all of these ideas, then pushed out a certain way by The Network to hold their demo and draw views. So you "read into" what you're seeing, it's very much there in many forms, but it's being chopped at the throat and comes out disjointed. Because XYZ ABC all have different ideas and attachments and visions from each other and they have enough sway based on long-standing to (kinda) have their voice heard. You're not reading into something that doesn't exist, you're reading into something that exists but is being butchered and warped by conflicting visions and power. (Just Misha Collins opening his mouth post-SPN Finale is perfect proof of this, lol)

Now look at Sunny, it's not that. Episodes like Bowling are really great examples: you look at the credits and it's: Produced by Rob, Charlie, Glenn; Developed by Rob and Glenn; Created by Rob; Written by Rob, Charlie, Glenn; Top billed actors: Rob, Charlie, and Glenn. So what you're immediately affirmed is that there's very little disjoint even possible. And, not even credited, we know Charlie and Rob were heavily involved in editing and post production (per TASP, Glenn was in Hawaii when they did post on Bowling). So what you're seeing is ALL deliberate, as intended. They are acting out the script exactly as it was written because, they wrote it. And then it's edited exactly how they want it to be because, it's their show and they sat there in the editing room. The final product isn't some conglomeration of different teams with different intentions, it's RCG from breaking the idea in a writers room to approving the final cut of the episode. There's no conflict, your eyes are telling you exactly what the intention of every moment is.

(And per the Meg Ganz Argument: she was quite literally a fan of the show, hardcore Macdennis shipper when they brought her on in 12. Post filming Season 14, she was still tweeting about shipping them. You don't work as an EP, in the writers room, and as a director for a show for three full seasons (ONE BEING TWELVE) and walk away from S14 still hardcore pushing your ship if there wasn't way more going on behind the scenes than we even know.)

Welcome to Sunnyblr! Believe your eyes, trust the structure, appreciate the hints, knowing it's all very deliberate, and be certain RCG(M) know what they're doing, and definitely enjoy driving us mad with it all. We're in it for the long haul, there's just always so much preamble :)

#iaisp #macdennis #rcg #ask #tw: supernatural mention #jk lol #but sorry to all who have to read this who went through hell #oc

[unforth]

h-how is someone into wincest also an anti i. the sheer cognitive dissonance involved

well, to be clear, Kelios isn't the kind of anti that says "no dark content ever!" she's the kind of anti that says "I hate THAT SPECIFIC OTHER THING so much that I'm going to be awful about it all the time." So she's anti-Destiel, and anti-Castiel, and in the same way that people in MDZS are anti-Jiang Cheng and just can't engage with the fandom in any normal way as a result of how virulently they hate That One Guy.

Like iirc it was Kelios and her friends who spent cumulatively thousands of dollars to go to a con and get a big group photo op with Misha Collins, the actor who plays Castiel, just so they could make him hold a sign about how much he sucks and use that to be rude and humiliating about a whole-ass REAL PERSON on the internet...because they didn't like Castiel and Destiel.

She's also an RPF tin-hatter for the actors of the incest ship (Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles, the ship is usually called J2). Like she literally hates Misha Collins...because he's in the way...of her RPF ship that she believes is real...

Like. It's genuinely hard to understate how truly unhinged Kelios is, which is why Bobo Berens taking her down was so so so lovely.

(to be clear: I don't care of people ship incest ships - I literally ship incest too... - and I don't care of people ship rpf - it squicks me but don't like, don't read - but like. This is the kind of person who deliberately set out to befriend the cast and crew while being this unhinged, who truly thinks that the actors' wives are beards and the actors are a thing, and who has bullied countless real life people INCLUDING THE LITERAL ACTORS AND CAST AND CREW because reality didn't match their delusions. Like. Kelios is batshit. Kelios is so well-known for being batshit that the writer replied and then the post did numbers on Twitter and Tumblr so that all the people who knew Kelios was batshit could delight in watching her get told to stfu by someone with the authority to say that to her in a way that would infuriate her instead of being something she could laugh at and ignore. Like, fuck bullying, but she brought this on herself.)

(tl:dr, if you have any interest in SPN at all, please block Kelios on every platform - regardless of what you ship - because no one needs that much toxic. You'll be happier and healthier.)

(god I hope I don't get in trouble for posting this, I don't mean it as a call-out post, this is all just. known information about her. except that The Old Lore gets lost and maybe it does need to be said??? idk maybe I shouldn't post it. *sweatdrop*)

#unforth replies #tagging no tags #i'm sharing but please just let this post die #actually maybe i'll turn of reblogs #i've never done this before but i truly am not trying to stir shit with this post #and if i can avoid it bringing anything my way that'd be great #i'm barely even IN spn fandom any more I'm so done with spn ship drama

[buttertheflame]

A List of Things To Come

*a long post*

I was on hiatus for about 5 years, but I think it's worth the risk of coming back. These are some thoughts and hot takes I've had since then up to now. My professional life is busy, but when I have the time, I'll share. Anyone interested?

Here's a preview, categorized by fandom:

A Song of Ice and Fire:

For asoiaf canon, I’ll speculate on what Jon and Val could have been, and what they could have had together, if he had not kicked the bucket. I’ll also contrast it with Jon's dreams of a life with her, and why he put the torch to it. :( Because of the root of her dislike of Mel and Shireen, I figure she will not be pleased with un-Jon.

Game of Thrones:

In GoT canon, Jon did not love Dany as much as the script suggested he would. In fact, they both failed to take responsibility for the other person. I haven't seen anyone make a statement like this before. (The PTSD is real.) But fic writers did pick up on this and tried to fix it in canon compliant stories, with a lot of success.

Supernatural:

In Supernatural s12-s14, Mary should have found her sons to be way more weird, specifically with each other. But given what we see of her in s6, her characterization is consistent. She would have, and did, ignore the red flags for an idea of family.

I’ll share approving thoughts on Sam and Dean's relationship in the final seasons, disapproving thoughts on the final season of Supernatural, and how I speculated it would either go Gencest or Destiel. We know what happened. No one walked away happy and I think the fandom was all the better for it.

Destiel is not canon. It only became a one-sided love confession. (I know there's a lot of speculation on what happened b/w the studio, the writer's room and the post-production team. Idc. Not gonna touch it.) Thoughts on how I think SPN could have made Destiel go 100% canon involve tweaking the execution and balancing out the themes of Sam and Eileen's love story, the big bad plot, and Dean and Cas's 'love' story.

Outlander:

Outlander (show-only) thoughts, foremost on Roger Mackenzie. He has vexed me from the first time he appeared on screen. I love him dearly, but he vexes me, for how he consistently affects the plot and how that defines his role among the main cast. Later on, I'll run through my favorite moments, episodes and narrative arcs.

Miscellaneous:

I'll share a list of favorite ship-centric fics I've collected over many, many, many years. (Gotta be over 10 years' worth). Along with blurbs that explain my recommendation in a non-spoilery way. Fandoms include: Harry Potter, LOTR, Supernatural, The Walking Dead, ASOIAF, Game of Thrones, Star Wars (Sequel Trilogy), The Flash, Shadowhunters [look away book fans <3], Hannibal (show-only).

I'll also post drafts of fics I never got right and never finished. Mostly GoT-canon divergent Jon/Dany fics.

Most importantly, some very dear friends have encouraged me to vent and hype up my Jonerys fic series "We Could Live Together" as I write it. It's GoT-canon divergent, but I alter some of what occurred before 6x09. Then the story re-enters book territory and moves toward ADOS conclusions. I'd also love to break down and discuss songs from the playlists when it strikes me.

This is the summary of Part 1, "A Long Way Home" (published):

After the Battle for Winterfell, Jon was captured by Bolton men then later found by Daenerys not far from Dragonstone. Their meeting blossoms into the most honest love--until Jon suddenly leaves for Winterfell, only to return to Dragonstone months later with more terrifying tales of dead men and Winter storms. When Daenerys chooses to send her armies north to fight the dead, all is certain but the matter of their bond. After the pain they'd endured, can they come together again? Or will separation be too powerful to overcome? *or* A romantic tale of choice and second chances.

This is the summary of Part 2, "Awake For Ever In Sweet Unrest" (in-progress and unpublished):

Winter has come and further fractured the realm. Yet Jon and Daenerys's betrothal and alliance is well known throughout the Seven Kingdoms. The secret that threatened to break them has made their love stronger, casting a fragrance of hope that draws to the last Targaryens all who seek refuge from political turmoil. Cersei Lannister has fled King's Landing in favor of establishing a bank in Lannisport, to guard against her deposition by the Iron Bank. Euron Greyjoy has set up a naval blockade at Oldtown, yet manages to beguile the Hightowers. And Walder Frey's sundown years threaten to pull his House into a civil war. From the Wall, Jon and Daenerys begin to wage war on the Others. Yet the age of wonder and terror, of gods and heroes, leads them and their enemies in the least expected ways. It begs the question: does all happen the way it must? *or* A romantic telling of the new War for the Dawn.

This is what I've been doing the past few years: working, (dating lol), re-reading the books and joining theory discussions on other sites. What touched my heart was readers asking for me to continue the fic series. Even as I considered it, I was conflicted. Since the show and book canon are so enmeshed, I think we were really vulnerable to being whipped and scored by D&D. But we all found ways to lick our wounds. I'm grateful we were able to become closer and stronger. I'm glad to be a part of it.

So that's my preview. If you've read this far, thank you. <3

There's more to come.

#asoiaf #asoiaf fanfic #jonerys #jonerys fanfic #otp: we could live together #jon x val #spn #mary winchester #weirdcest #outlander #got #got wank #fandom wank #amber speaks #musings #writing stuff #* #these tags are a mess #but it'll do #i'm tired just putting this post together lol

[incarnateirony]

please feel free to ignore this but you seem to know a lot about tv business motivations, especially re: the cw, and i've been curious ever since your post about jensen possibly trying to legally restrict wincesty con merch for the winchesters plus more recent information about how much spn higher ups seemed to lean into wincesty vibes during its run: do you know why they would lean into it? i can't imagine they thought that fan subset was big enough they had to appeal to it and you very accurately pointed out that it's a gross thing to have associated with your brand. i almost thought they clumsily wanted to pull in an lgbt crowd but that's absolutely the wrong way to go about it and they seemed to fight against destiel, which would be less horrifyingly offensive to literally everyone involved. what the hell was going on in the brains of the people in charge of spn? just knowing how tv works, it had to have been financial but do you have any theories on what it was, based off your understanding of marketing/tv? was it like, we don't want to risk this other actor being as big as the two we started with because then we'd have to pay him more or something?

So first note, stop seeing it as Destiel versus Wincest.

Nobody up top sees Wincest. Nobody. Not even the tippy toppy people. A few know about it and treat it as a joke, but this isn't ship versus ship. This is purely everyone inside the fandom bubble's head being fucked up top to bottom from years of people decentering the discourse.

This is romantic queer content vs base IP packaging argument with the upstairs.

The show WAS sold under the premise of 2 brothers. It dramatically expanded, and the cast, the writers all loved that and developed that, but at the end of the day, for example, this 2005 show was NOT packaged as an LGBTQ product out of the gate and was proud of courting rural conservative america along with the libs.

It's just a doubling down into heteronormative basics and male empowerment, which was a Singer mindset issue. Everyone else did everything they could to work around it, and almost accomplished it via budget and shooting schedule, until covid slammed the emergency brake and singer and corporate had a solid half year to figure out how to fucking stop it.

Singer and Leming were also EXTREMELY pissed and petty due to realizing WHAT Berens (and Dabb, with his consent) did to them, to SPN, to everything. They were the old arms that signed on to weight the project (well, singer was) when kripke was a nobody and stayed well past kripke and used his wife to further bloat his power in the room.

For a few years, Berens and Dabb were under/overwriting Eugenie scripts rather than trying to argue with Singer, since arguing with singer Carver quickly learned was a quick way to a rude death in a bathtub written by the wife and filmed by the asshole.

This came in continuity revision excuses, or last second "showrunners notes" directing the actors to change small lines, such as "We are." as a scene, is almost like, entirely modified on the fly by Berens, as is the Amara discussion that episode, and this is just one episode of many examples for years.

People acting like it's a fucking mystery why we got that petty, vicious excuse of a finale that seemed personal--because it was, atop being corporate.

It was a punishment. To Dabb, Berens, Meredith, Jensen, Misha, Richard, everyone who had worked so hard for so many years while Singer couldn't even be assed to watch his own show and notice the changes. To the fandom that wanted it. It was a punishment. Corporate shut down what it feared and Singer dug in the knife. Or the rusty dildo.

Jensen, as you can see, has opted to completely supplant their position and approach it from even more power and rights than Singer himself had.

Wincest was never "the point" even to corporate. It's something they tolerated, and frankly, is part of why turning the LGBTQ boat around has been so goddamn hard even versus the normal, because it's taken years for them to realize it's not "all ships are silly fangirls as looney as the Becky-Wincest crowd lololol" that's been half the FUCKING problem. They're literally a fucking rot on this fandom and brand, but they made money, at the end of the day, and a fuckton have blown something like a quarter million a piece on a decade of cons and other shit.

Jensen's just over it. Bye. He doesn't want to start his brand with that shit. And he controls what airs now. And boy son it is NOT the version of SPN Patrick is begging for.

Also for what it's worth, Misha actually realistically was higher paid than Jared. lmao. in raw numbers by the final year jared made like 15K more an episode (and jensen like 50K more than him), but the actual requirement of how much misha is on set each episode really broke down his comparative hourly rate to be parallel to jensen so no. lmfao. misha's agents knew his worth by the end. they tried to stonewall him on it a few times and cracked bc they knew they needed him, no matter what stunts they pulled at the end.

[stefsdean]

Spnwin finale rant... because some of you can never be satisfied with anything 🙃

Y'all are disappointed?? We got Dean back.. the spn finale won't hurt anymore... Dean is back, and he punched Death in the face (metaphorically) and chose freedom over peace... and you all are still shitting on the show because Cas wasn't in the episode where his existence wouldn't even make sense?? I get how badly you need Destiel and so do I... but guys c'mon...

We didn't get Cas-baited... we all agreed that we were clowning and making up theories of Cas being there when no one from cast and crew said anything about it... they said they wanted Misha but didn't say he was there.. we were reading into everything because WE wanted to not because they baited us.

This show, the finale... it's so healing. Things makes sense and the team has kept canon in mind. John isn't shown as lovable... he's shown as someone who is obsessive and has way too many anger issues... Mary, as we've already established in spn that she's exactly like Dean is also done right. There are SO MANY PARALLELS and Mary is Dean in every one of those parallel. Also Lata and Carlos are amazing... we get to see their story too. Their fears, their insecurities, their past, their life everything. They make a great team.

Sometimes I do understand when people hate the hellers because if something isn't about destiel, some of you start shitting on it so badly. If a person/actor doesn't ship it, y'all will call them homophobic.. not everything has to be about destiel, all right?

You all hate the fact that the w*ncesties reduce Dean to being only Sam's brother... but if we are also reducing Dean to be just Cas' love interest.. and if there's no Cas, we don't want Dean.. how is that any different? They're hating the prequel cuz Sam ain't there and we are hating it cuz Cas ain't there..... it's exactly the same thing. WHAT ABOUT DEAN? HUH?

Now I understand Dean's story isn't gonna be properly completed without Cas, but who said it was the end?

I also know that no reunion they'd be able to give us could be satisfying enough for some of you.. so maybe we're better off without one (saying this with a very heavy heart).

#sorry i am very pissed #some posts are just not it #stop hating on jensen or the prequel #spnwin #the winchesters #spn

[dotthings]

I know that the antics of bitter antis on stan twitter aren't my problem, and I'm better off out of there, but twitter is still a cultural hub watercooler. And the malice being spread against Misha by certain anti-Destiel/anti-Misha Jensen fans isn't good and I'm going to say so.

One of them is now harassing people, jumping on con report tweets, jumping on a positive tweet from someone saying they hope Purcon has a cockles panel someday.

Another of them, after trashing Misha and assigning malice to him, and trying to spin this into Jensen as the victim Misha and Bobo's sinister scheming with Jensen as their prey, switched over to trashing Wayward Sisters, and then tried to gatekeep The Winchesters as if the only reason it succeeds and is interesting is because it has Jensen's face in it, which is an insult to the entire cast and to all the work Jensen, Danneel, Robbie, and others have put into the series. And then they claimed Jensen agreed with them. (Then they turn around and spam SavetheWinchesters as if they didn't just undermine its creative value. The only reason this type cares about SavetheWinchesters is to parasocialize Jensen, they don't care about the story or the characters). Meanwhile in reality, Jensen keeps bringing up Wayward Sisters, or expressing his own salt about it not being taken to series. Jensen's support for WS was very open and very clear.

Also it seems that Misha is not allowed to make any jokes about Danneel and Jensen, who are his dear friends. Not only is this hypocritical, since Jensen makes jokes about Misha, and I very much doubt these so-called fans enjoy it when people assign ill-will to Jensen for it, yet it's fine when they assign ill-will to Misha. It's also ill-intentioned wank-baiting and ill-will towards Misha. Not to mention how intrusive this is, to believe they get some kind of hateful dictator privileges over Jensen, Danneel, and Misha's friendship.

These so called fans have said some really horrible things about Misha and it's honestly very creepy, verging on the pathological and the paranoid. They have made Misha into a villain. A horrible friend and manipulator. In their heads.

They don't care about reality. They also don't care how badly they're treating Jensen himself, who they claim to stan, they're that far gone. Their lack of respect for Jensen is pissing me off as much as their insults about Misha. I don't think they should be claiming to be Jensen fans if this is how they behave about him, using him this way for their own hate, their own toxic biases.

Underneath it all, this is a bunch of homophobic dog whistling and I am not going to sit by while certain antis who claim to be Jensen's fans try to paint Jensen with the brush of their own hatred.

The queerness of 15.18 is treated by them as something frightening and evil that Jensen and spn are a victim of, with Misha as the bad guy who forced queerness into spn.

Let it sink in what all this drama really is.

On top of how actually gross it is for people to treat Misha and his friendship with Jensen and Danneel this way, to attack those friendships and attack Misha, and invent lies, all because these stans dislike a fictional queer ship.

This is likely a tactic to cause drama and cause division, maybe they're hoping their drama will turn Jensen and Misha fans against each other.

If they think they're doing Jensen any favors with this garbage...they're not.

#dot trolls fandom