#you know it's bad when the jc anti was the one in the right

[anqelbean]

Sometimes I open Twitter and see mxtx discourse and think "wow, I hate every single person in this conversation"

#hhhhhhhhhhhhh #you know it's bad when the jc anti was the one in the right #not on the jc hate #but on that damned modao/guidao discourse #hhhhhhhh im so happy to be an svsss main #anqels ramblings #eva.txt #mdzs #mxtx

[whumpbby]

Idk if there's a right way to say this but Jiang Cheng's biggest crime in and out canon is being not that pleasant to be around and i rlly wish people would acknowledge that instead of trying to paint him as The Worst in order to justify their weirdly intense hatred towards him

I'm going to ramble,sorry, that how I put thoughts in order:)

I think that's the perfect way to say it actually. And 100% fact imho. His biggest flaw is that he has no patience with other people's shit and no filter on how little patience he has. He lets people know he's unhappy with them. All his care and dedication is in his actions.

The way he cares about Wei Wuxian and then Jin Ling - even his scolding is an expression of care, always concerned about the way their behaviour can bring harm to them or to their sects. The way he sacrificed his life for Wei Wuxian without a moment's doubt and neve mentioned it. The way he was fighting a war and rebuilding the sect at the same time. The way his sect became absolutely notfuckwithable. The way he kept throwing himself in the way of danger for his loved ones in the Temple.

This is not some villain who only cares about himself - the way he's being painted by the antis.

There was this post somewhere saying that the biggest flaw in a fictional character is being boring - they can be a war criminal, as long as they're not boring.

I think for some people who are looking for pure escapism and feel-good simplicity (and nothing wrong with that, everyone does that) the "boring" gets replaced with "ugly". The depiction of trauma survivors that didn't "go through all that and ended up kinder". That didn't get over the tragedy in their lives to an appropriate standard. That are functional, but not happy. That bring back the bad stuff that happened because it still influences their lives and behaviours and reactions.

They want all the tragic trauma of the past, but without long-lasting consequences that aren't leading directly to cock-healing or fawning.

Like, if you think about it, no one went through the war in that book and came out "better". Absolutely no one. Lan Zhan drowned himself in guilt and directed all his anger towards Jiang Cheng. Wei Wuxian didn't stop running for even a moment and he became an intensely careless, emotionally dishonest person. Lan Xichen settled into not really doing much, coasting on his sects' position and JGY's help. Nie Mingjue became a bona-fide warlord who basically said "fuck these people, hunt them for sport for all I care". Meng Yao learned that you can stab your problems away. Everyone around them became incredibly trigger-happy for a long while.

And yet JC is the only one singled out as the Evil Walking The Land, because his trauma response isn't pretty and stoic and is specifically, understandably, targeting the Innocent Cinnamon Roll Protagonist and isn't fixed by the end of the book. He could have saved the world, but as long as he's not polite while he's at it then fuck him.

This is, like, primary school level morality were facing here xD

I cannot tell you how surprised I was when entering the world of The Untamed - prepared by Tumblr to see jC as this demon of a man and instead found this guy who, by all accounts, is in the right 99% of the time. Then I read the book and was staggered by the final reveal. And the absolute bullshit I was fed by people that wanted to sour me on the character before I could make my own mind.

Not even gonna get into how these people treat Wen Ning - whose whole existence is a horrific chain of horrific events ending in his absolutely awful existence of an actual slave... But he's such a cute puppy, eh?

Tldr: people who keep making excuses for hating JC do it to somehow justify the fact they can only accept Trauma Light in their fiction.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng

[lansplaining]

burning hot take: nmj is/was a better sect leader than nhs. nmj has All His Problems yes but nhs committed to the bit of "im bad at this auuuugh" so hard he convinced everyone on earth that it was true

(inspired by the anon talking about a jc anti 'ranking' sect leaders. do you think there's a jianghu sect leader ranking in universe. personally i do. i do think this)

is there any question??? NMJ had some uh major issues, but he was clearly keeping the Nie sect running smoothly and maintaining their reputation and standing with great success. the succession planning thing is... a huge problem for a sect leader, but if you set that aside, he is clearly succeeding by a lot of metrics

tellingly, very few of those metrics are related to being easy to work with, good at compromise, or pleasant to be around. that is one way to be a good sect leader, but if your goal is the power and prestige of your sect, it's very clear that NMJ's way is working, too

NHS, on the other hand, allows the sect to fall into compete disrepute. people who want him to be this Moriarty-level genius mastermind might argue that maybe he's running the sect well in secret, but if that's the case... a) how has he convinced everyone to keep that secret when it's to their direct detriment to be members of a sect that everyone things is a trash fire and b) part of successfully running a sect is recruitment, so how is it good leadership if everyone thinks your sect sucks and doesn't want to join it, even if that isn't actually true

as for a sect leader ranking, I think you're absolutely right that there is one in-universe, and to some extent we know exactly what it is: the ranking of which sects have the most influence and power. obviously in the immediate aftermath of the war, things are up in the air and influenced by a lot of external factors, but by the time of the present-day storyline, I'd argue that things have leveled out to the extent that the power dynamics we see are a pretty much a reflection of the skill of the current sect leaders. amongst the main sects, we don't know the details of the middle of the list, but there's no question that jin guangyao is at the top and nie huaisang is at the bottom

#ask answered

[tavina-writes]

Sorry may I ask you a question? Your meta is so interesting! In mdzs "debts" is a recurring theme and can you please explain it? I've read meta about how in Chinese culture jc's owed the wen siblings a debt and he should have saved them, but I've also read meta about how he owed a hugger debt to his own sect. I've read how jgy killed whr and nmj, people who he owned his educations (debts). I thought that mdzs was more about "Who is wrong? Who is right?" so that everyone is a bit wrong and a bit right but this kind of meta make me doubt myself and think that maybe in mdzs someone is really morally right (wwx and lwj) and everyone else is wrong. I am going a little crazy, that's why I asked you. Anyway, thanks in advance and have a good day!

Hi Nonny!

There's no need to apologize for sending an ask! I love asks!

Regarding your question about debts and what is "owed" in relationships, I think it's important to clarify that like, presumably if someone saved your life you'd also owe them a debt of gratitude, a life debt, or however and whichever other 'debt' terminology you'd care to use there. So this concept of "debt" because you owe someone for doing something for you is not in and of itself a 'unique to Chinese culture' problem, and I think looking at "oh this person "owes" this other person a thing" is not entirely a great? way to analyze how character relationships "should" or should not go. There are lots of ways we as people in a society owe other people in our society and the characters in this book, much like us, are trapped in a confluence of factors that pull them in different directions regarding what they should or should not do.

The book itself (at least from my own opinion) is meant to read as "everyone is both right and wrong at various points in this text because this is a book with complex characters and not a morality lesson" because lest we forget, WWX made a woman eat a chair leg at one point, which. We cannot say this was correct in really anything except the most reductive main character centric interpretation.

Regarding debts themselves that say, WangXian might owe their families in accordance to their society that sound just about the same as the examples mentioned above, we can say things like "since Wei Wuxian was raised by the Jiang, he should've been helping Jiang Cheng rebuilding Lotus Pier instead of sitting around drinking or running off with the Wen!" or "how dare Lan Wangji injure thirty-three of his family elders, doesn't he know he should've been filial to them and owed his education and position in society to the Lan Sect?" and "why is it that WangXian got to go fuck in a bush at the end of the story when other people who arguably did fewer crimes end up dead? Does this mean they owed less to society or made all the right choices compared to say, the other people who are still in fact super dead and don't get to fuck their beloved in a bush?"

Does this start to look like this concept of "debts" doesn't,,, actually explain anything about the moral complexities of the character's situations? That's because it isn't a good indicator of if character x made a moral choice or not.

But again, this whole concept of "debts" to explain why a character does a thing and why they're morally good or evil and reprehensible for not doing this other thing is entirely a thing fandom does in meta to make their fave look good or character they're an anti about look extremely bad under a case of "well ACKSHUALLY morality says they SHOULD HAVE done this!" None of these characters exist either as Perfectly Moral Beings or Perfectly Evil Immoral Beings inside a decision making vacuum.

It...also doesn't really matter if your fave is right or wrong either :D just for context. They're all fictional blorbos upon a page and or screen. No real person was harmed in over the course of the story. No woman deep throated a chair leg, no child was tossed down the stairs, no groups of people were massacred, no brothers were abandoned, no one was poisoned with rage disease until they died, nobody committed incest... etc etc and honestly debating about if fictional characters were right or wrong fascinates me a lot less than "what does the story tell us about what drove them and made them tick?" and "what adaptational and translational choices did other people before me make about this story and do I agree with them on their adaptational choices."

:( sorry this came out so messy anon! I just don't think the "did this character repay their debts -> is this character a good person -> a morally good character therefore doesn't owe anyone anything anymore and if they do owe someone something that doesn't count/no they don't." pipeline is particularly useful from an analyzing the story standpoint.

#don't actually come debate in my notes or my inbox on if wangxian owe their families anything #or if this one debt a character has outweighs the other things that also act on their lives #like actually i am begging y'all to not #the debts debate means almost nothing! there are a lot of things everyone owes everyone else! #mo dao zu shi #the untamed #my meta #meta #asks and answers

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Someone refresh this fandoms definitions. Anti would be saying jc is the worst character to exist, or cursing him etc not talking about the time he told WWX to put the wens back in the camp LIKE talking about how snape is terrible for bullying kids isnt anti, yes, he was a spy for a good side, yes he also did shitty things. YES jc was once a kid who didn't do the evil his adult self committed, talking about him hitting wwx with zidian knowing it would yeet his soul right out killing him there and then ISNT ANTI when thats something he did? Being critical of something a character did in text DOES NOT mean you're being an anti wtf nor is talking about it was bad actually what he did jiang cheng bashing! if the fandom considers that bashing man they wouldn't have handled actual bashing well at all.

The sad thing is that this definitely reminds me of early FF.net days when it came to the comment section and the in fighting in those being more wild then the actual fics. The excuse there at least that most of the ones doing it were fellow children that were 12.

Ironic thing is that I don't even say he's past redemption and I will reiterate that as I speak here. He just has no need to bother Wei Wuxian and finally is mature enough to leave well enough alone. I do want better for him and think he can achieve that in some capacity, just not in the flowery way many seem to want that to be.

Nor am I personally interested in bothering with breaking that down within the context of the plot text we are given for him. When I bring up the text points, yes, he DOES vile cruel things based in hate for Wei Wuxian, Wen Ning and Lan Wangji. There is no point of the plot were he actually steps up to be better and that in itself is a trope that MXTX utilizes for many of her themes and relationships.

What I like about many of her relationships is that they are not all salvageable. To me that is realistic and cathartic, to be allowed to comfortably be told throughout a story that it is okay to have failed in a relationship and to step aside when it has come to its end after all the nasty words, actions and feelings throughout it. Catharsis is not always happy it just means being able to finally understand how you had gotten to that point and to finally let that other person go. That doesn't mean you aren't allowed to grieve about it, but you can also be relieved without guilt to step away. If that's a sad ending then good, I'm glad you have never had to come to that point in a relationship to realize nothing would ever be the same because you are too different to make it work at the bare minimum.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi

[drwcn]

Hello! Quick question: JC-antis will prove their (insane) arguments about him by citing how the "real" JC is described in MXTX's text. I know a lot of the story revolves around the danger of rumor and hearsay, but in my English translation, the story seems to be written in 3rd person omniscient, which unfortunately seems to give their argument some weight. Could you lend me some insight regarding the original Chinese or any cultural elements that might help me defend my Fave? Thanks! <3

i mean Jiang Cheng is very much a little shit face, but is he a bad person? Hmmm no.

as far as i'm concerned, antis can say whatever they want and i just...block ppl LOL

it's hard to give really concrete evidence without digging up the real text and MDZS is....VERY LONG. And i just can't...be...bothered.

But I will say one thing about Chinese as a language. Sometimes I found that translation often made what is just "casual speech" very abrasive and aggressive and rude sounding in English.

Even just the most basic example from the show: when that dude from episode 2 fainted in the Fairy Temple, Sizhui is translated to say: hey what's wrong with you? Or something to that effect. (the only reason i can pull this up as an example is bc i recently started watching it again with a new friend who i've infected. i'm like patient 0 in this untamed epidemic that's going around in my friend circles).

Which honestly, if a person fell down in front of you and your automatic response is what's wrong with you? People would be like wtf, why are you so rude? But in Chinese, it's....not a rude thing to say. In fact that is exactly what Sizhui says: what's wrong with you/what's going on with you?

And this is Sizhui we're talking about. Like the Angelic Boy of the mdzs universe no matter which iteration.

So naturally you can see how that plus a shitty temper would make Jiang Cheng seem like an irredemable asshole.

Not to mention all the misreading into the cultural dynamic, trope dynamic that people seem to be doing left right and center. Completely heedless of the myriad of people telling them bruv, you're reading the book wrong please calm down.

It's like whenever i read a good fanfic and i see the words "Madam Yu abused Wei Wuxian" - I click (x), right away. I'm too old and too tired to deal with this kind of shit in my life.

Also the absolute projection I see in some people's analysis/fic/headcanon. Bruh....

But who am I to tell people how to live their lives? If they get more out of mdzs/cql than is intended by the author or production team, well that's none of my business. I can have selective blindness.

and do i feel show jc is a bit watered down than book jc? hmmm yeah, to an extent. but also i feel that's the thing with books right? when i read it i imagine one thing, but when i see it as a visual in the show, that's both the director's interpretation of the character as well as the actor's interpretation of the character. and i decided that it's canon enough that it's not ooc, and i actually like the show's interpretation so that's what i'm gonna stick with.

#corie replies #cql #the untamed

[labyrynth]

have i ever mentioned how fucking annoying wwx megastans are

(below cut bc salt is salt)

like i know that seems like a weird sentiment (he’s the main character! i sure HOPE ppl like him!!) but like. there’s a subset of ppl who like wwx that just take their opinions to an insane degree and like. completely flatten him to put him on a pedestal.

like they’re alarmingly wrapped up in protagonism and fucking obsessed with the idea of “the moral ideal” (as if mdzs is some kind of parable and we’re supposed to be taking notes)

they seem to believe that every single thing that wwx has done was either moral, justified, or both. they think that wwx has never made a single bad, or even “well intentioned but unfortunate consequences” decision.

and like i honestly have no idea how much of this moral whitewashing cql can even be blamed for when the most rabid stans also seem to fall in the canon anti jiang cheng camp which is mostly novel based

then again maybe it shouldn’t be surprising: if wwx is The Moral Ideal and everything he does is right, then it follows that not 100% agreeing with him or not abiding by every single one of wwx’s choices is Wrong and Immoral and Bad and Therefore characters like jgy and jc must be Evil

(and let’s throw in some buzzwords like “toxic” and “gaslighting” and “abusive” for good measure, to emphasize their Evil-ness)

and i really really never ever wanna see another take about how “well actually wwx foils jgy and jc and xy bc where jgy/jc/xy are Mean and Cruel and Resentful and Hold Grudges, wwx just lets bygones be bygones!! HE moved ON from resentment!!!”

(i want you to take a good long look at wwx. what is his total resentment-related body count?)

and then they proceed to explain why actually torturing hundreds of people (including non combatants!) to death is moral/justified/deserved or some such

and they will LITERALLY look at the scene where that guy shot wwx and wwx flung the arrow back and killed him and be like “umm well he tried to kill wwx so obviously wwx is allowed to try to kill him back. it’s not like it’s wwx’s fault that he actually succeeded uwu”

and then turn around and go “jgy was so horrible and cruel to kill nmj completely and entirely unprovoked!! how conniving and bloodthirsty and power hungry!!! he only did it because he would benefit!!!!!!” (idk maybe it’s just me, but if i’m looking for opportunities that benefit me, “you won’t be murdered” is kind of setting the bar real fuckin low)

anyway

#mdzs talk #i’m feeling salty tonight #abt a variety of things #and i’m choosing to take that out on all the weirdos i have blocked who will never see this #i keep seeing these brain dead takes that seem to think mdzs is a story about why wwx is good and everyone else sucks #and they’re a very easy target #some of my coworkers have been. trying. #and they kept snapping at my TAs and calling them rude and disrespectful #like ma’am they’re 12 can you please calm down #and also they’re MY kids. you haven’t learned a single ONE of their names. #(they’re only making the kids hate them if the only interactions they have with them is to berate them or tell them to shut up)

[admirableadmiranda]

hi, hope you're doing well! so, i'm a bit confused about wwx being morally ideal vx morally gray esp when you take the golden core transfer into account? it's not exactly consensual considering the fact that wwx lied to jc. additionally, how was jc abusive to wwx or jl? idk i feel a lot of the anti jc arguments involve things he didn't do?

Thank you anon, I appreciate the well wishes. In fact, I am doing very well in part because your ask has made me realize my work against Jiang Cheng stans and their nonsense has not ended.

To all reading this, I am well aware this is a bad faith ask. This is specifically written in a way to annoy me especially given my usual reblog topics and some of the metas I've written before. Anon knows exactly what they're doing.

But too bad for them it's a Friday fucking night and I'm ready for an argument. Come at me stans, we'll see who's better in a slap fight.

You are right! Many of our arguments do include things he doesn't do. Let's go over some of them, shall we?

He does not: treat anyone in this story with respect.

He does not: uphold the tenants or ideals of Yunmeng Jiang in any way. He is a disgrace to his ancestors.

He does not: ever show one lick of gratitude for Wei Wuxian getting him back a golden core, and before we go into the consent shit he told Wei Wuxian he would do anything to get one. He willingly gave his consent to do anything to get a golden core. So how is it relevant that in the end it was a different method than Wei Wuxian told him? Given how Jiang Cheng treated him knowing that he only had a golden core because of a once in a lifetime favor, him knowing that Wei Wuxian gave him his own golden core would not have gone over any better.

He does not: tell Jin Ling any of the truth about his parents or what happened. He told Jin Ling that Wen Ning (who was supposedly already dead at that point) murdered his mother on Wei Wuxian's orders.

He does not: show any signs of humility upon being confronted with the fact that he is wrong, in fact he doubles down on his actions.

He does not: support Wei Wuxian in any way especially not when Wei Wuxian is busy fulfilling his debt to the Wens, in fact he makes sure to bury Wei Wuxian's name and reputation as gratitude for taking on his debts and allowing him to stay out of jianghu politics.

He does not: ever show any signs of character growth outside of one possible blip where he lets Wei Wuxian go at the end of the Guanyin Temple Hostage party, if anything he's more bitter and angry at the end of the story then he started.

He does not: do anything to deserve the whitewashing he gets from the fandom.

He does not: endear himself to me with his whiny petulant spoiled child attitude.

He does not get to get a jail out of free card for serial killing anyone who reminds him of Wei Wuxian after leading the massacre of fifty innocents including an old woman and a toddler.

Oh and just for a note as well anon, not only does he slap Jin Ling to the ground twice, but verbal abuse is also a real thing and that he heaps on Wei Wuxian and Jin Ling in spades. So kindly take your abuse apologism out of my inbox and out of my fandom. You are not welcome here.

#mdzs #jiang cheng #canon jiang cheng #asks #anon #anon asks #anon is trying to abuse apologize #and you do not get away with that on this blog #thank you and good night

[mostlikelytofangirl]

Why do many people in this fandom think that jc and wwx do not care about each other since the beginning when it has been constantly been made clear again and again about how those two care about each other ?

Some of them even have the galls to say that jc was evil and malicious since he was a kid.

I am new to this fandom and I am really confused by their approach of hating on jc and hating on people who like him . Btw , you have a great blog .

Hi there! Thanks, I'm glad you like whatever this is :'D

Oh man, yeah, I know that feeling. It was very weird to me too when I was new to discover how much of a controversial topic this was, especially since I considered their relationship one of the most fascinating, complex and engaging dynamics of the story. Yunmeng bros storyline is tbh one of the greatest tragedies of mdzs.

Well, as I replied to a previous ask, I think the main problem with this fandom is that it is too Western YA mentalized. They see this story in terms of black & white where the protagonist/hero and all those aligned with them are incapable of doing wrong and, therefore, anyone who disagrees with them is a Bad Guy and their arguments are automatically invalid, the protag's way is the only way.

I think this current trend of hypersanitizing media and "antis" also play their role: if someone is "toxic" they are a Bad Human Person, always were and always will be. These ppl can't imagine a reality in which someone you loved and who loved you back could ever turn against you without having them be monsters all along. They need to justify their high horse, make themselves feel morally superior by making clear distinctions of who is Good and who is Bad, and those who fit each category cannot, ever, change.

In WWX and JC's case specifically, I'd say it's just a matter of numbers tbh. I know for a fact that there are ppl who hate WWX and claim JC did nothing wrong too. It just so happened that, well, WWX is the protagonist and we see the story through his pov, so his fanbase is naturally bigger. Not to mention his story arc is perharps the only one with a happy ending, while JC's is left open, to say the least. So narratively speaking, and considering the standards we are used to in the West, the ones to get closure are Good Guys, those who didn't cannot be Good Guys.

With all this in mind, I suppose it's easy for JC haters to see canon and all the explicitly stated dynamics of love and companionship WWX and JC shared, and just... act like those weren't there. Like they meant something else. Like WWX (the hero) was right and good all along, but JC (the bad guy) couldn't have been a loving brother once, no, that's not how it works: if you are bad, you are bad, whatever goodness you could have had was retroactively nullified by This Bad Thing you did. You are a bad guy, bad guys don't do good things ever, not even as kids.

And all of this without taking into account the societal convetions of the time period and how WWX was not an official part of the Jiang family, he was never adopted, he was the first disciple and, if anything, he got preferencial treatment that blurred and complicated the family dynamics (by no fault of his own, mind you, none of the three kids are to blame here). He is not exactly a servant, but he is not a relative either; the fact that JC treats him as a brother is already outside the norm... but bc it becomes the norm for them, ppl may look at JC (the Jiang family and society in general) pulling the rank card and get outraged: See? That's proof that JC never saw WWX as an equal and never cared for him! Yes, bc they are not equals. Yet they treated each other like they were. In fact, it's canonically stated that WWX think of himself as a servant and it's JC the one who says that he is not to be compared to a servant.

It's all a big mess that definitely doesn't help the case of seeing WWX and JC's dynamics in a fully objective way, and tbh I don't think it's meant to. It's supposed to stir emotions and HURT. But with so much nuance and so many conflictive feelings and circumstances between them, sometimes the mental and emotional labor to fully appreciate it is too much for ppl used to media giving them the product already disected and ready for consumption. Thus we have a big portion of the fandom that simply reduces these two to The Hero and The Evil Brother.

And that imo is even a greater tragedy.

EDIT: I just remembered of this twitter thread that explains much better how Westerns would see these two and the archetypes they represent, and why it impacts fans’ perception of them.

#replies #mdzs #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #for the record I'm not saying that you can't favor one over the other #and understan/sympathize with his pov more #but having a fave is very different to acting like they never meant anything to each other #much less that one was malicious since childhood like wtf?? #is it the puppies thing? #bc I can assure you that's a very normal little kid reaction #it's called a temper tantrum and those are normal #also they made up and became besties that very same night wtf are you even talking about?? #if anything it's very admirable how incredibly close they became in a household with jfm and yzy #their love is what makes their fall out all the more delicious and emotional why strip them from that?? #it makes the story much more realistic and raw #sometimes your family stops being your family for whatever reason #and both share part of the blame #the circumstances made it all impossible to reconcile #it happens and there's no villain there just life

[vrishchikawrites]

Hi , I just wanna why everyone hates Jiang Cheng so much here , I have been seeing hate posts about him here a lot more than I see anywhere , I am still a newbie in this fandom so I might be wrong though.

Jiang Cheng is someone which after reading the novel I can neither hate nor love , he has just become one of those characters who just diminish in the background after they have done everything they did .

He is just someone I don't care about after I finished reading the novel, a pretty selfish brother who might have loved his brother but couldn't express it in the right way and ended up hurting the person he was supposed to trust the most because of his inferiority complex and mob mentality.

My thoughts also might be like this because I also forgive too easily , so I am sorry if I offend anyone in this fandom again.

Jiang Cheng is foolish and cruel and a bad brother and uncle but his character makes me feel that you will never be able to love him neither hate him for he did at the end of the day.

You can hate for things that he did and you can love him for some things that he did but you'll never be able to hate him or love him wholeheartedly.

Before reading the novel , I always thought I might end up hating him for what he did to Wei Wuxian , but after reading it , I just can't .

He was a character which I felt passionately about in the beginning of the novel , but he ended up as one of those whose purpose and story I no longer care about. He fulfilled his purpose by being stuck in the past and became a lunatic because of that (I am just being sarcastic and also saying the truth). All I wanna say is that , I think that he loved his brother, Wei Wuxian and at the same time hated him, but his mother and father were bad parents and he committed a lot of cruelty , for me he is just impossible to hate or love. Pretty traumatic things happened to him too and I know Wei Wuxian's life was more traumatic , but I don't wanna compare trauma between two characters.

I just wanna know you and your friends' opinions about him.

(I just wish I don't get hate again from the fandom , I am neither his stan nor his anti . I just wanna know ! I am a curious person !)

Thanks in advance for reading my rant and responding to my selfish post. Sorry if you're busy , you can take as much as long to respond to this.

Hm.

My opinion on him is simple. He is an antagonist. He is a spoiled brat. He bore a grudge for 13 years. His own people need to pray at a temple for protection because he can't be bothered to provide it. He lead a siege against innocent people, including a child, knowingly. He hits his nephew.

Most importantly, he is boring.

MDZS shows, repeatedly, that your own trauma doesn't excuse you doing shit to other people. JC response to trauma is to always strike out at others. He spends THIRTEEN YEARS whipping people who resemble WWX. At no point does the novel attempt to excuse or justify him.

That is my opinion.

As for hating JC - well, I don't particularly care for him. What I don't want is being bombarded with fanon JC when I just want to focus on WX. The sheer number of times people need to diminish WWX to elevate JC is ridiculous.

So, I guess you can blame his stans. When I finished the novel, JC was a non-entity to me too. A simple-minded character, found dime a dozen in media all over the world. He is the very typical rich kid.

But when I read fics, it became very difficult to find ones where his character wasn't softened or his abusive nature wasn't excused. Often times at the expense of WWX - a character that stands heads and shoulders above him.

With me, when you try to push me in one direction against my will, I head in the opposite direction.

When the fandom tried to force fanon JC in me, I went in the opposite direction.

As simple as that.

I mean this in the best possible way - if you like JC or sympathize with him, there is ample media available to you. There's no need to be upset about me and my friends having fun roasting him. It simply isn't that serious. We're all little Shen Yuans here and JC is our airplane.

#reader asks #re: jc

[plan-d-to-i]

During my years in fandom I always been team like whatever you like, I don't care. You like a horrible character? That's fine. You like a toxic ship? That's great, ship whatever, I just hope you don't consider them goals to imitate in real life.

I don't like haters and I never wanted to be one, when I hate a character I usually just don't talk much about them and avoid fan content about them. I will not bother their fans for liking something I hate. Usually is an easy task.

But JC is an special case for me, I've been in fandom for many many years and this is only the second time I find a fan vision of a character being almost unavoiable.

Because if it was for me with JC I would just do that, avoid content about him and live happily reading wangxian and others mdzs ships I enjoy, but his fanon image is everywhere and infects other characters in a bad way, I'm reading a wangxian fic and there is JC being the "brother who actually loves WWX and WWX has to ask forgiveness", I'm reading about the juniors and there is "cool uncle JC who everyone loves, even LSZ because who cares that JC killed his family", I'm reading 3zun and there is JC I don't know how or why but he's there and he's GREAT. I'm reading meta and there it is "poor JC" who is nothing like canon JC at all.

So in my desire to just avoid fanon JC I end searching "anti JC" content, fics from people that are "anti JC" meta from people that are "anti JC" because in this fandom anti JC just mean that they see JC as he is in canon. Just talking about the things he canonically does, even if you do it in the most objective way not even going into critical mode, is considered being an anti.

"Antis" and "haters" is the only place when I see canon JC and the other characters are themselves and not a worse version of them that fits the "victim JC" narrative.

I would never go after JC's fans in their spaces, I'm ok with them doing whatever they want, ship whatever they want, I don't care. I may hate any JC ship but I would never go after a shipper for shipping them.

I just want to be able to avoid them, I just want them to stop acting as if their opinions are canon, I just want to be able to say that JC is an antagonist and not to have people screaming at me. I want to be able to talk meta about canon without having to deal with a fandom version of a character intruding where they don't belong.

I love MDZS so much, but lately I find myself interacting more with the SVSSS and TGCF fandoms (which I also love) and less and less with the MDZS fandom because I'm just SO TIRED. Just wanting to avoid a stupid fandom version of a character shouldn't be this difficult.

I'm so sorry !! (。。 ) Your experience completely resonated with me and I think a lot more people than you'd imagine can relate to it.

I don't really have a solution either, because as you said jc fanon is almost unavoidable. Even if you find small islands where someone will treat jc's character according to canon, and not warp every other character around his existence, they'll hate MXTX, or think the 🌶 scenes are evil, or have poor takes on other characters... Perhaps you're right and the only way to ultimately enjoy mdzs is away from its fandom. (SVSSS and TGCF have their own fandom pitfalls too...(╥ω╥)) Whatever happens just don't let them ruin the material for you with negative associations. (´ •ω• )♡

#mdzs #answers #fandom.talk.

[wonderfulworldofmichaelford]

Michael in the Mainstream: The Passion of the Christ

At what point is it okay to separate the art from the artist, and at what point is doing so simply impossible? Let me give you a few examples to illustrate my thoughts.

In the case of H.P. Lovecraft, I think it’s okay to enjoy his stuff. Yes, the man was virulently racist and xenophobic, and yes, it does tend to bleed into his writing from time to time… But here’s the thing: He’s dead. He’s not making money off this anymore, he’s not naming any cats racial slurs, and he’s thankfully not on Twitter. By reading his stories and using his public domain creations in your own works, you’re not lining his pockets or pushing his agenda. Of course, I believe acknowledging his bad views is important, but I also don’t think buying a Cthulhu plushie means you hate black people.

In the case of JKR, it’s not okay. Rowling is a miserable, virulent TERF who uses feminism and her own past negative experiences as a hammer to beat down trans women every chance she gets. By watching the movies of her work, buying her books, retweeting her, and openly expressing your love for her in fandom, you are in effect advertising for her and funding her hateful agenda. Not to mention she has tons of racist, transphobic, and anti-Semitic themes woven into the very fabric of her works. This woman ruined goblins, and that alone is a sin more unforgivable than any curse she could ever write. Now, if she dies (or better yet, is assassinated), and hate groups no longer profit from her, then I think liking her shit is fine. Whatever. If JKR is down having tea with her like-minded buddy Thatcher in Hell, I think watching Daniel Radcliffe and Alan Rickman transform her awful prose into something watchable can be done guilt-free.

And for when it’s impossible… Well, I think Mel Gibson nailing Jesus to the cross is about the point where you can’t ignore subtext anymore and you’ve gotta quit that cold turkey.

Yes, I’m not kidding. Gibson’s hands are the one hammering those nails into the Lord, and that one simple fact undermines the entire story and just serves to highlight how demented and evil Gibson truly is. For those who are blessed not to know who Gibson is, he is a miserable washed-up action star who was the lead in films like Mad Max and Lethal Weapon, franchises that would have been enough for him to coast by on goodwill for the rest of his life… But then he had to go and blow it all. Racist rants. Horrific anti-Semitism. Conservativism, the list surprising thing here since it really only makes sense he’d be right-wing considering the other stuff.

And then here he is, making a movie about one of the most beloved Jewish men in history being brutally maimed, tortured, and executed, and he’s the one pulling the metaphorical trigger. It’s unsurprising every conservative dimwit from film critics to Bill O’Reilly bent over backwards to defend this, but goddamn Roger Ebert? He gave this movie four stars, denied anti-Semitism, and called it the most important version of this story ever? Seriously? I couldn’t even charitably call it a good version of the story. Look, I get it. I get the Passion is about his sacrifice, that’s all well and good. And I get that it wasn’t pretty. But the way this is filmed, the way it lingers on our boy JC’s suffering… It feels less like an honest and frank attempt at spirituality on Gibson’s part and more like self-serving torture porn so he can live out his twisted fantasies.

It’s not even possible for me to praise the things that, in other contexts, would be worth praising. All of it being subtitled, the set design, the acting, how can I lavish any praise on it when it is a hateful movie made by a hateful man? It’s impossible here. Gibson is a despicable, evil man and it really seeps into this film, especially with how he portrays the Jews. In her own review, Katha Pollitt said "Gibson has violated just about every precept of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops own 1988 'Criteria' for the portrayal of Jews in dramatizations of the Passion (no bloodthirsty Jews, no rabble, no use of Scripture that reinforces negative stereotypes of Jews.) … The priests have big noses and gnarly faces, lumpish bodies, yellow teeth; Herod Antipas and his court are a bizarre collection of oily-haired, epicene perverts. The 'good Jews' look like Italian movie stars (Magdalene actually is an Italian movie star, the lovely Monica Bellucci); Jesus's mother, who would have been around 50 and appeared 70, could pass for a ripe 35." Rowling would be proud of this crap. It’s just a miserable, miserable movie, and yes that’s part of the point but it’s impossible not to read into it in the worst ways because of who Gibson is.

Gibson has never even apologized for how he is. People like Robert Downey, Jr. have called for us to forgive him, but what has he ever done to deserve it? He just keeps on being an evil man, saluting Trump and acting in racist movies alongside fellow right-wing hack Vince Vaughn, while reaping in all kinds of rewards for his directorial efforts. He barely suffered at all for his horrifying, toxic behavior, but he gets to lay claim to having the most controversial film ever made, and it’s not even controversial for the right reasons. I remember people being more up in arms over the violence than anything, and yeah, the violence is so over-the-top to the point of being unnecessary, but I think Mel’s rampant bigotry seeping through the screen is the bigger issue here.

There is literally no reason to watch this movie. You want a better look at the final days of Jesus? Scorecese made The Last Temptation of Christ. Don’t want to feel miserable while watching Jesus die? Jesus Christ Superstar is right there. Do you absolutely have to watch a version of Jesus that has the involvement of a stupid old bigot? The Life of Brian is right there. All that The Passion has to offer viewers is misery, brutality, bleakness, suffering, and bigotry, and we get enough of that in the real world without watching it on the screen. If Gibson really wanted to make a beautiful and personal film about Jesus, maybe he should have done a more wholesome and uplifting part of His life, instead of the part where He is literally murdered. If this is what Gibson thinks faith is, that really says more about him than anything else ever could.

Fuck this movie, and fuck Mel Gibson.

#Michael in the Mainstream #MITM #review #movie review #The Passion of the Christ #Mel Gibson #Jesus Christ #Easter #violence

[reqvlvs]

id personally like to address a few things ive been seeing in response to monday's episode because i like putting my personal opinion into places people don't want it :)

first off, need i remind some of you that Maddie has a mental illness? mental illness isn't rational. to her it seems like she's doing the best she can in order to protect her daughter. while we are aware that this is not true and that'd she'd never purposefully hurt her daughter, Maddie doesn't see it this way. some of you Maddie antis are using this to prove that she's a bad person or a bad sister to buck and it is really fucking annoying. buck is a grown ass adult. he doesn't need his sister to rely on so that he can have stable mental health. i get that he loves her and hates seeing her hurt because everyone with a relationship with their sibling gets it, but buck will be fine. can we, for this one, just focus on Maddie and hope that she gets home and she gets better instead of focusing on how bucks dealing with it? this is not to say that buck isn't going through it and that buck doesn't have a right to be sad, i just wish we could take the time to acknowledge Maddie is not a bad sister and that she does love buck, but she for this once needs to take time for herself.

second. read this very slow so you'll understand what im saying. eddie would never, EVER threaten anyone. this one's specifically for you fanfiction writers. a lot of you take Eddie's overprotective behavior towards buck and you think he'd literally kill a man for buck. while it is true that Eddie will do anything he can to protect buck, he would never go to chim and threaten to hurt him if he "ever touched buck again." like i said before, buck is a grown ass man. he knows how to figure out his own shit. Eddie loves his team, they're his family, he's protective over all of them. sure there might be slight preference towards buck simply because of how close they are, but he would never go up to chim and threaten to hurt him over a split second mistake. you all took Eddie's Street fighting arc and just ran with it, making him out to be a violent person. when Eddie was street fighting, he was going through a lot of things that he didn't know how to handle. fighting was just a way to get out everything he was feeling, albeit in an unhealthy way, but he didn't know how else to do it. he's grown since then. he's realized he can deal with his emotions in some other way. that whole POINT of him going to therapy was so be could work through this issues without violence. and and regardless, if there was anyone would understand what chim is going through, it's eddie. he too has been left by his child's mother before. he understand the emotional termoil that comes with becoming a single father out of nowhere. he understands chim. he'd never hurt him.

third and finally, i do not in anyway blame chim for punching buck. i really don't. while everyone has no doubt been going through it since Maddie left, chim has really really been going through it. he's been left alone with his daughter and his girlfriend could literally be anywhere. a situation like that is understandably emotionally taxing. he's going through a lot right now with almost no way to regulate his emotions. he's angry at himself, he's sad no doubt, and he's scared with no way to regulate this emotions properly. of course he was going to snap eventually. so when he found out that buck had been talked to Maddie, every emotion he was feeling bubbled to surface just exploded. of course, violence is never the answer and chim did make a mistake but i understand why he did what he did. and most importantly, he will apologize. once he's realized what he did and how he hurt buck, he will apologize, because chim understands and grows from his mistakes. you people just have to give him some time jc.

also to the fanfiction writer i saw saying that when Maddie came back that she should be mad at chimney "for not looking for her" a giant sincere, fuck you. chimney has literally been working himself to the bone in order to find her specifically as she said NOT to. Maddie might be slightly upset about went on between chim and buck but she would never be mad at chim for not looking for her. jesus christ y'all, i fr sometimes think im not watching the same show as everyone else.

anyways, feel how you feel about the latest episode, just make sure you take into account what is going on around theses characters and their actual personality traits. shit is happening and they're all going through it. and that mine friends, is the second installment of opinions no one asked for

#911 #911 opinions #911 show #911onfox #911 fox #eddie diaz #maddie buckley #howie chimney han #evan buck buckely #madney #buddie #911 5x04 #buck x eddie #chimney x maddie

[missputotyra]

A Letter to MDZS’s Fandom

Dear, Anti Jiang Cheng(and Jin Guangyao) and Rabid JC Stan

Please stop Overreacting to Every postive/ Negative post about JC. I don’t care who Pounced first .I don’t care about the Canon of A novel with About 5 adaptations that everyone considers Different continuities,

1. Cause I have better stuff to read.

2. Out of Spite for the Canonmongers who are a lot of times Anti JC so I‘m really not ready to read this anymore of this novel besides looking up chapters to make stuff wasnt taken out of context with a clear mind.

3. The Translation sucks .

This isn’t about MDZS it’s about How Toxic The Anti’s and Stans are

JC Stans could You please Remember shove your headcanon back into corner when talking about Wangxian and Everything eles.

Lan Zhan was the Safest Person for Wei Wuxian to be around at the Start of Story , Jiang Cheng wanted to more than likely kill him.

Lan Zhan and Jiang Cheng basically hates each other

Lan Zhan literally had a crush Wei Wuxian since they were juniors , Lan Zhan just saw his opportunity to have chance At Getting the man he waited 13 years for he was not stealing WWX from JC.

Also not everyone whose says something negative about JC is an Anti, I’ve said Stuff saying That Criticized JC as feeling like a character whose Roles could be Filled by other Characters he’s really feels like Character MXTX Kinda left unfinished like The w hole acting like Douche bag To make JC Sacrifice seem like a Surprise could’ve been great if MXTX Didnt make JC overly Aggressive and given blink it or miss hints making it fall flat .

Antis , You guys are actually horrible and are As bad as the Stans you Criticize . Actually You don’t Criticize them at all you Guys get mad go one of Anti JC Blogs to then basically gossip about them behind thier back. You guys Support blogs that response to asks of people posting URL to peoples blog post and Don’t even post a “ dont Harass this person .” cause you Assume Your audience are a bunch of Intellectual but Thier more High schools it’s like your asking for these blogs to get harassed. It’s gets worse when you find out the Anti JC community has gripes with an Actor from the Untamed.

Second, is that Most Anti have sticks up thier ass as if liking Wangxian cause their made to be Moral ideals and Reading A BL novel is going send you to heaven. While Condemning , people who like Jiang Cheng , Jin Guangyao or Xue Yang and show that Like in way outside of “ Uwu murder Daddy toture me .”

Yes I know thier Antagonist Cause You keep shoving novel Down my throat and saying ”Hey, look, listen “

on Repeat Like Your Navi from Zelda .What do want me to do

“ Aw Yess I see the error my ways , I hate JC now .”

I don’t care if You Think Rabid JC Stans complaining about the novel is annoying . It’s Thier fault for being Delusional and not separating Canon from Fanon and Anti JC’s Fault for making it worse by Persecuting the masses none of this about JC it’s about Fanon every good analysis of Canon!JC or even Madame Yu by Anti Jiang Cheng ruined by Trying to Shit on them Out of spite for the Fanon.

Third and one that Gets me the Most Upset , Your Preset Idea of what a JC stan/fan is and Some of the disgustingly common insults in the Anti JC community .

You think that JC stan/ Fan project an Allegedly toxic personality on to JC and treat people like shit and basically instill a lot of Ableism by impling that projecting Feeling on to a Fictional man is more Toxic than projecting them on to I don’t your real life or online friends , or Your family . You think someone who made a postive statement about Jiang Cheng either can’t read or Lacks comprehension .

You call people Hypocrite for Being LGBTQ+ and liking/loving Jiang Cheng

Try an claim Soften up Fanon JC Is cause Death of the Author i.

MXTX is alive and can still disapprove fanon right away . MXTX is a normal person who wrote three BL novels series and got famous causing other Danmei Authors to surface After her. MXTX is a writer meaning we have to assume anything she says in interviews about character its Her making a gist of a characters personality meaning Her saying Jiang Cheng is a Nice Guy with terrible personality and say he’s embodies all ten Poisons don’t contradict each other she saying same thing.

Why am I writings cause I was almost pushed Away from even exploring Scum Villian Saving System and Heaven’s Offical Blessing cause MDZS Fandom gave me the wrong in impression of all MXTX’s Fandom that thier going to hate me if I like the Wrong Characters I could unknowingly screw myself. Its not bad yet but Antis and Stans need stop thinking in black and White. You have to make your minds 50 shade Gray to get the whole picture . You guys make are making Pokémon fans Seem like an antidote .

From

MissPutotyra

#jiang cheng #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #jiang wanyin #mo dao zhu shi #fandom #fandom problems #vent

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed Episode 15

(Masterpost)(Other Canary Content)

Warning: Spoilers for all 50 episodes!

This rewatch is going to fit into a single post, because a third of the episode is just crying and yelling on a very slow boat. If you want to learn the Chinese words for “Mother” and “Father” this is your episode. 

Captain Blowhard

Clan Leader Yao shows up, having barely survived the massacre of his clan, along with two disciples who aren't too excited about their unwilling promotion to top targets. Jiang Cheng tells his dad that the Wens are systematically exterminating the smaller clans, and have said anyone who helps the survivors is going to be punished. 

Jiang Fengmian tells Yao that the Jiang Clan will protect him. Which is why Wei Wuxian is responsible for the massacre of the Jiang Clan. 

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian both think that taking Yao to the Jin clan is the best way to keep him safe. Wei Wuxian was wrong to help the heirs of the powerfullest richest clans, but sure, let's save this asshole.

Road Tripping

The boys go down to the dock to send Jiang Yanli and Jiang Fengmian off, saying a formal goodbye with a bunch of disciples and showing off how extremely good they look in these close-fitted, simply cut robes with cool belts.

Yu Ziyuan comes down to say goodbye to Yanli and give her some medicine, covering by saying it's for Jiang Fengmian, because being sick is bad for marriage prospects, probably. 

Later the boys will mention their hope that YZY will be mollified by the time JFM returns, which means this possibly isn't the usual state of their relationship. The dislike and jealousy seem to be constant, but perhaps being openly at war with each other is not.

(more after the cut!)

Club Ruohan

At Club Ruohan, Wen Ruohan is tired of sitting on his big uncomfortable throne so he's sitting on the floor next to it, instead. He's suffering the embarrassing problem of black smoke leakage, and needs Wen Qing to give him acupuncture to fix it, but she's not around. Wen Ruohan has an awful lot of trouble containing resentful energy, possibly because he is controlling a bunch of zombies 24x7 instead of letting them take a break. Wei Wuxian is mostly able to control it--except when he, you know, totally isn't--without ever needing an attractive acupuncturist to give him a poke.

WRH learns from Wen Chao that Wei Wuxian 1. killed a boss-level monster on nightmare level difficulty without his sword 2. took whatever thing had been suppressing the nightmare monster for the previous really long time.  WRH wants whatever it is.

Boys in Charge

When the boys get back to Lotus Pier, Jiang Cheng doesn't understand why they couldn't all go to the Lins together, and Wei Wuxian explains it to him. Wei Wuxian is the one seeing the big picture, and he wants to plan how to handle the Wen forces when they, inevitably, arrive. 

Jiang Cheng would rather talk big than actually plan, showing how--at this age--his anger management problem is an issue on a strategic level, not just a personal one.  As a clan leader he will eventually master this aspect, for the most part, and learn to keep a cool head in regard to martial matters, while continuing to feed his interpersonal rage problem.

The brothers supervise the archery practice of the Jiang disciples, having their last nice time together, and still without a plan. Wei Wuxian is bored and calls practice early so he can go be bored on the porch or in his room, since he isn't allowed out. In fact he's so bored by lockdown that he starts an irreverent niche blog.  

(he’s kidding! keep your mask on, don’t go to wine houses)

Knowing that the Wen Clan is gunning for enemy cultivators, Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng send the whole group of disciples, including children, outside the compound walls to retrieve their kites. This is what happens when you don't have a plan.

Wen the Levee Breaks

Wen Chao’s girlfriend Wang Lingjiao finds a kite with a hole in it and uses it as a pretext to snatch up the youngest disciple. 

The other disciples come running back and tell WWX and JC what happened. Wei Wuxian calmly gets all of the information from them and starts figuring out what to do, while Jiang Cheng freaks out. 

Jiang Cheng is a good fighter, and matures into an excellent one after a core upgrade and war experience. But Wei Wuxian is a born battle leader, developing strategies on the fly and staying cool under pressure.

Madame Yu is as brave as a barrel full of bears and Yinzhu and Jinzhu chase lions down the stairs

Yu Ziyuan and the murder twins show up and all of the disciples line up behind them, relieved to have someone scary in charge.. Yu Ziyuan is also a natural leader and an awesome fighter, but her judgement is terrible, as we're about to discover. 

Bitchfest

Wang Lingjiao strolls in to the main hall and has the nerve to comment on the interior decorating, because it doesn't have enough rough-hewn black rock and lava pits, apparently.

She shows them all the kite and says that because it looks (kind of) like the sun, using it for target practice is an attack on the Wen Clan. Bitch, everything your clan wears and uses has fire on it and is red. The sun is not your emblem, no matter what the text says. This kite situation is presumably where the anti-Wen campaign gets its name of "Sunshot," however, which sounds pretty cool.

Wang Lingjiao moves along to her main point, which is that Wei Wuxian needs his ass kicked, and she'd like Yu Ziyuan to do the kicking. To goad her, she starts talking about the rumors about Wei Wuxian's parentage.

Let it Whip

So let it whip (let's whip it, baby) Get a grip (let's whip it baby) Well, what's your trip? (Oh no)

Yu Ziyuan takes the bait, and proceeds to whip the shit out of her strongest battle asset, in a sequence that's either horrifying or completely fucking awesome, depending on how you feel about whump.

There are a lot of bad effects in this show and a lot of questionable fighting, but any time Zidian flies, I am HERE for it. I gave this beatdown its own gifset over here.

Jiang Cheng is devastated and tries again and again to protect Wei Wuxian, but his mother and her lieutenants keep moving him out of the way so the beating can continue.

Yu Ziyuan hits Wei Wuxian at least 5 times, until he is totally unable to get up off the floor. Wang Lingjiao has succeeded in eliminating him as a threat for the moment.

Gotta Hand It To You

Wang Lingjiao isn't satisfied with the brutal whipping, however; she wants his right hand as a trophy, and for him to be unable to recover.  Yu Ziyuan tells Jinzhu and Yinzhu to close the doors because some blood is going to fly. 

I'd like to think this is when Yu Ziyuan decides to kill the Wens, rather than maiming WWX, but I'm not certain. Because she doesn't start attacking until after Wang Lingjiao says the Wens are taking Lotus Pier, and tells her to discipline Jiang Cheng. So maybe she is okay with taking WWX’s hand, but draws the line at giving up her house.

Through all of this, Wei Wuxian doesn't once protest, even when he thinks they're getting ready to take his hand off. He'll do whatever it takes to make peace. THIS is the core of his heroism; he will sacrifice anything to do what he thinks is right. He's not "playing the hero;" not doing this for fame or kudos, but for a clear conscience.

It’s a Murder Party

Wang Lingjiao explains the new Wen World order, and Yu Ziyuan smacks her to the floor and then takes out all 8 of the Wen soldiers in one elegant move. 

Can we talk about how incredibly effective a fighter Yu Ziyuan is, without a sword? With her first-class spiritual tool as her only weapon? Nobody is telling her she needs to carry a sword. She shows she can use one, after she gives Zidian to Jiang Cheng, but she's absolutely devastating without one.

Having defied Wang Lingjiao, Yu Ziyuan...doesn't kill her. She chokes her, slaps her and yells at her. Then she insults her clan and sticks her FOOT on her FACE.

She sics the murder twins on the guards in the room, and they shank all of them at super speed while the boys watch with alarm. 

Then she has them sloooowly advance on Wang Lingjiao, giving her plenty of time to holler for Wen Zhuliu before they can kill her.

Het Heat

Wen Zhuliu comes flying in, literally, kicking both murder twins across the room at the same time. This is followed by Core-Melting Hand x Violet Spider suddenly becoming the most shippable M/F couple in this thing, because wow, they have some serious chemistry.

I never saw a pretty girl look so tough

Actor Feng Mingjing continues to do an awful lot with almost no lines, in his portrayal of Wen Zhuliu. WZL politely apologizes to Yu Ziyuan. Is he offering to withdraw, or is he just being polite before getting down to the killy bit? Either way, Yu Ziyuan is ready to rumble, and doesn't even consider de-escalating.

You know who was able to rein in his temper, after fighting with this same extremely dangerous dude, and therefore lived to fight another day? Fucking Nie Mingjue, that's who, who has a generational CURSE making him angry. While Yu Ziyuan, is like, "fuck the safety of my clan, this is Wei Wuxian's fault anyway" and throws down.

Wen Zhuliu and Yu Ziyuan proceed to have an epic, sexy fight, where he catches her whip and she dodges his attempt to feel up her core.

He's a magic man, mama, he's got the magic hands.

Wei Wuxian, still incapacitated, tells Jiang Cheng to stop Wang Lingjiao from calling for help, but JC gets distracted by the threat to his mom, and goes to engage with Wen Zhuliu.

Jiang Cheng takes a horrifying smack in the chest, which injures him and takes him out, while Wang Lingjiao sends the signal that seals the fate of Lotus Pier.

It’s All Over Except for the Crying

Yu Ziyuan immediately sees that she's lost the battle, and has the murder twins divert Wen Zhuliu while she brings the two boys to the pier. 

She verifies that Jiang Cheng's core is still intact, showing the viewers, for future reference, that it's possible to tell by touch if someone's core is missing, although a casual touch won't do it.  

Then she re-codes the Zidian so that it recognizes Jiang Cheng and puts it on his wrist. She follows this with a display of maternal affection for Jiang Cheng unlike anything we've seen so far, which super fails to reassure him.  

She follows this up with screaming at Wei Wuxian and telling him how much she hates him, and blaming him for the multiple shitty choices she just made..  

With a heart full of rage, she reminds him that his worth lies in what he can do for more important people.

She binds the boys with Zidian and then sends the boat on its way....

...with a frickin' TALISMAN, holeee shit. As toxic as she is for Wei Wuxian, there is a direct line from her cultivation skills to his.  

Dad To The  Rescue...sort of

The last third of the episode is basically yelling and crying punctuated by a couple of interactions out on the water. The extreme emotions go on for long enough that I eventually stop feeling bad for the characters and start feeling bad for the actors, who had to maintain this level of feeling for probably days of shooting.

The boys eventually meet up with Jiang Fengmian and Jiang Yanli. JFM discovers that Zidian responds to his control, which tells him something is very, very wrong, since it probably knows how his wife feels about him.

This thing isn’t biting me; your mom is in serious trouble. 

Here Jiang Fengmian decides to do the heroic, totally futile thing, which is exactly his style. He tosses Jiang Yanli in with the boys and takes his leave so he can go die with his wife while the children survive.  

He has to know that Yu Ziyuan is the stronger fighter of the two of them, and that he's not going back to rescue her. He's just going to stand with her and die together, which is the most romantic thing you can do in a C-drama, after all.  

How Much Do You Owe the Jiang Clan?

Jiang Fengmian tells his two children not to cry, making them and the viewer cry extra hard. (specially ouchy gifset here).

Then he turns to Wei Wuxian and, with a heart full of tenderness, reminds him that his worth lies in what he can do for more important people.

Next episode: Is going to be even more horrible! 

Soundtrack: 1. When The Levee Breaks, Led Zeppelin 2. The Tale of Custard the Dragon (poem) by Ogden Nash 3. Let it Whip by the Dazz Band 4. U Got the Look by Prince & Sheena Easton 5. Magic Man by Heart

#fytheuntamed #the untamed #the untamed gifs #the untamed meta #yi ziyuan #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #my gifs #the untamed spoilers #tw: crying #omg this episode

[janiedean]

I feel bad for all the nice J*nsa shippers who like their ship for whatever reasons (tropes, pretty art, aesthetic appeal, whatever) and know it's not canon but get associated with the misogynistic Dany hating crowd who act like Jon being attracted to Ygritte is J*nsa foreshadowing because red hair (I guess Jon should fuck Edmure Tully too? Omg give me Dark!Jon getting revenge on Catelyn by seducing her brother!) Tell me something. I'm new to the fandom but was J*nsa popular before the show? And I've heard something about the OG J*nsa shippers being alienated by the new shippers who insisted it had to be canon and acted like the series is called, "A song of J*nsa #danysux." I don't find that hard to believe because I know people who are now ashamed of calling themselves J*nsa shippers. Like, at this point, it's not only rival shippers who hate it. Even Gendrya/Braime/Jon stans/etc have started disliking that ship. You know your fandom is a problem when people who have nothing to do with Jnsa have a problem with it.

me: reads this ask

me: iwastheregandalf.gif which I can't find now but

okay anon buckle up because I am sadly well-equipped to answer this ask but before I do lemme tell you dark jon seducing edmure to take revenge on cat is LITERALLY THE BEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD but *clears throat* ALL RIGHT THEN.

disclaimer: as anon says I have no issue with like the shippers mentioned by anon in the beginning and ngl I agree, I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO FUCKING STAKES in the j*nsa vs j*nerys war and the only het jon ship I gaf about is jon/ygritte and we all know where that ended up I just... have been here since 2011/adwd was over and all the fic around was just for the books under secret lj communities and asoiaf qualified for yuletide and I have... seen... things.... and I actually have like uh had... beef... with some people in there and I know things bc ppl who hated those others told me stuff so anyway *sigh* buckle up anon I'mma tell you the story of jon shipwars through the years

in order, the old gods help me here, under the cut bc this is long as fuck

when I got into fandom also given what numbers were on ao3 one ship was popular and it was sansan. no like sansan was lit. the only asoiaf ship on ao3 with more than 200 fics. jb had twenty when i checked first. jc had like around 100-ish because of the show but sansan dwarfed anything. I posted the first jon/ygritte fic on the ao3 tag and the fourth throbb fic and like the others were all reposts from lj kinkmemes. nothing was popular before the show except for sansan when it comes to huge numbers bc grrm doesn't like fic and it was all hush hush until the show made it impossible to control and that ship was the one with a huge enough fanbase it actually had numbers, so like... j*nsa wasn't popular in the way nothing else was popular until it got screentime on the show

now, that stated, j*nsa had a... fair amount of fic for a rareship which was mostly book-based and from og shippers that were there from before the show and liked it for what it was but literally none of them thought it was gonna be canon, like it wasn't huge or anything but it had a small but dedicated fanbase who did their own thing and thought it was fun/liked the idea but that was it

that fandom had their own niche of hcs that they cultivated and shit except that like... at the end of S5/beginning of S6 there was a surge in shipping for... well obvious reasons bc it was obv sansa was getting to the wall and that would have been all nice and good but a) it was the time puritanical shipping was starting to take root and the 'shipping sansa with sandor or tyrion is hella problematic' rhetoric had started to circle coming from sans*ery shippers mostly but I'mma not open that fucking can of worms here, b) while the ending of S5 had more of a theon/sansa spike, the j*nsa stuff started getting big

now here we have to mention my villain origin story ie: j*nsa fandom had this one stan whose name I won't make because honestly it's been years and if she's still around I don't want her to remember I exist who was a bnf, wrote for... the website that created the whole larry/carol thing etc who was really fixed on this thing that j*nsa was actually canon and started writing extremely popular meta about it. now you're gonna ask how do you know, I know because this person once wrote a meta named 'why robb stark is a dick' and I told her that it was really fucking bad meta and she took it so badly she kept on trash talking me on her blog/her podcast (I was apparently the insane robb stark fangirl l m a o good lord) and like that was when some sane ppl who argued with her informed me in pvt that she was basically harping on the CANON thing when they'd have been okay with like... it being crackshipping and that she was basically cultivating a hoarde of followers who were harping on them/the ogs and basically ostracizing them;

I would like to add that this person - before her tumblr got 'accidentally deleted' and remade it therefore deleted most receipts for, er, her so-called meta which included stuff like ned and cat raised sansa as a sexual object and only wanted to sell her like cattle - had at some point started a round robin fic thing where... some of the characters mocked openly said stuff that some of the og fans had said specifically targeting them and people in that side basically went harassing anyone who didn't agree with that specific notion

now never mind that this person basically coined an entire term to describe ppl who liked white guys and excused all their wrongdoings out of my conversation re robb basically lying about everything I said as if I didn't have the receipts and tried to sell shirts with it and it didn't work and like then she got kicked out of her own website because she was telling her commenters disagreeing pretty shitty insults (considering I was called psychotic for disagreeing with her that time I don't doubt it) I think at some point she stepped back from fandom bc idk wtf she's up to these days and I don't want to, but basically at that point the dam was broken and there was a bunch of puritanical shippers harping on anyone who didn't agree with j*nsa is canon endgame stuff

this also includes an incident when those ppl were like... passing themselves as throbb shippers and ended up trying to tell t*hramsay shippers off the theon tag based on moral reasons and I ended up arguing with all of them (and they were all from that crowd) which in turn landed me in contact with other og j*nsa shippers who were like detached from that fandom bc those same people harassed them away as well ssooooo fun

anyway when S6 happened everyone was high on it and whatnot but I wasn't gonna begrudge them that I mean... you shipped it for years, canon is delivering you, good for you, but then j*nerys happened

god j*nerys happened

aaand basically...... I mean personally I was there like are y'all seriously arguing about the best incest jon ship out there but like basically the j*nsa endgame side was like AH JON IS PLAYING DANY SEE IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, the j*nerys obv got defensive af and both sides were sort of alternatively shitting on jon/ygritte anyway and depicting any other romantic rship jon could have as abusive™ and during S8 it just got worse and like I tried to stay out of it but basically from what I'm seeing now idk how the j*neryses are doing but on the j*nsa one it's ah jon's gonna play dany anyway and she's going to go insane like in the show so SHOW TRUTHING EVERY OTHER WAY and like again denying that sandor exists or that tyrion exists and like I barely touch my corner (sansan) but I ended up arguing with j*nsa/th*nsa people on twitter who were antis and is2g it was white-hair inducing and I know for sure the sansa/tyrion shippers were harassed to hell and back throughout so FUN

and even if the show didn't go there now since everyone there banked on the jnsa endgame thing and admitting you're wrong is like... not a thing, they still haven't let go of it and attach to that ship any shred of evidence which honestly is grasping at straws half of the time (like... the sansa/alysanne parallels like guys please no) and which is why every other ship is starting to get fed up, attaching canon proof of stuff from other ships onto theirs see that batb argument and jb is platonic but jonsa is not nvm taking all the sansan stuff and throwing it on j*nsa but then denying that sansan has canon evidence (like guys I had to read sansa touching his shoulder when saying gregor wasn't a true knight wasn't meaningful and we were seeing things please) and blah blah blah

this also goes hand in hand with the fixation on like... villanizing dany at all costs and like is2g I have zero investment in dany or her storyline I don't even remember it and I don't particularly care abt her either way and sure af I'm not for j*nerys endgame but like.... some stuff I read is completely excessive esp when fixing on how she's a completely mad tyrant who's gonna have to be put down and like... guys no

(also there's some srs stannis hate in that corner which I honestly don't get why they even care abt stannis but I had to read stuff like ppl don't recognize that dany and stannis are the real villains in this saga and like........ idek)

I think most of the og shippers are gone or don't ship it openly bc they don't want to be attached to the drama but like I also think they're pissing off everyone else bc like... I mean a bunch of them also were down with sansa being paired with other ppl as long as it meant a good ending for her except those ppl were... like everyone but the ppl she has actual contact with in canon which meant that at some point sansa/gendry was a thing and like.... you can imagine why arya/gendry shippers & arya stans were fed up, and there's also this tendency to behave like sansa is the center of the entire saga which like these books is named a song of jon snow basically can we pls make peace with it and personally I've had it with both j*nsa and j*nerys people since they started with that dumbass JON/YGRITTE WAS AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP rhetoric but I'm also fed up with the total ignoring that sandor exists/depicting us as delusional and honestly I also was by proxy fed up from the harassing of the sansa/tyrion shippers soooooooooooo

there were also instances of 'well theon is an acceptable choice other than jon bc he can't threaten her' which... i mean we all know what that meant and I'm not even commenting it bc it's one AM and I have no force to but I don't have to explain why it's not a progressive take now do I

there were also metas about how cousin incest being legal in half of the world means that jondany is a worse incest and j*nsa doesn't count as such and I was basically there like guys please just fucking own up to it but honestly I chose to forgot where I read that and I couldn't find the link if I tried

tldr: no one wants to admit that it's not gonna be endgame which considering the amount of fic they have on ao3 is imvho useless bc they have more content than like.. anything I ship that's not jb or that's actually like canon *cries in joncon/rhaegar but I mean renly/loras is canon and has less fic than them* so idk what's the problem with enjoying that instead of insisting it's gonna be canon when not even the show validated it while show truthing anyway when the only show truthing that can be truthed is the small council made of minorities and possibly jon eventually fucking off with the wildlings but not like that but like most people who thought it wasn't gonna be endgame had left/were made to leave by the time S7 rolled by and at this point since wow isn't out yet everyone is fandom-grasping at straws to find stuff to discourse on and we're here beating dead horses *shrug*

so that's... how it is but I would again like to point out that I don't judge ppl on their shipping, I don't particularly care about this entire feud bc I only ship jon with ppl he's not related to in whichever way and I try to stay out of this mess bc I don't really care to argue with ppl who have already decided to bend canon to whatever they want and will have to realize that it's not what grrm wrote at some point but like I have a very good memory and the above rant is as objective as possible also bc again I don't literally have a stake in that race I just think romantic/endgame j*nsa is not a thing and that ppl should stay in their lane and not harping on other ppl who ship whatever in general but especially when their ship is the most popular thing in fandom in the first place /two cents

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