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nesiacha · 2 months

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One of my many frustrations as an MC and MCK. When Bayezid makes the (stupid) decision to take refuge with Shah Tahmasp, why wouldn't Firuze make a little comeback? It would have been interesting to see her interact with Bayezid. Due to the liberties taken by the writers with the story, we're no longer close to that for this fiction (especially since I love Firuze, I would have liked Suleiman to discover the truth after it was out of reach just for see his face when he realizes how he is not as attractive as he likes to believe and realizes his stupidity). Then why not show Pari Khan Khanum during Bayezid arc, an important figure for the Safavids who played an important role in the rise of her brother Ismail II, then perhaps killed him since he had become dangerous because he has been locked up for 19 years (I pay attention to black legends, that's why I say maybe). Pari Khan Khanum was eventually strangled to death. Seeing her would have been an interesting figure in parallel with the Sultanate of Women. She becomes one of the most powerful "blood princesses" as Mihrimah will become, a woman of power who had to face several dangers including the leader of their own country (like Kosem and Turhan for example) and had to get rid of this leader who had become crazy and dangerous after years imprisoned (Ibrahim in Kosem's case for reasons of state and perhaps Pari Khan Khanum if she actually killed his brother) after spending years doing everything to save them (Kosem must have pleaded for Ibrahim's life with Murad surely and Pari Khan Khamun must have shown a lot of cunning to put her brother on the throne) before dying of strangulation (like Kosem). It would have been very interesting to see her in some scenes or only mention her in MCK for introduce the rise of Mihrimah (even though the show portrays Mihrimah as powerless, unlike history) and the rise and fall of female regents like Kosem. Another frustrating point is that there is no Shah Abbas in MCK unlike Shah Tahmasp. Instead we were served a bad plot with Farya's uncle (sorry for those who liked it, that's just my point of view). Plus like Murad , Shah Abbas got a terrible childhood ,inherited a very unstable situation (although in the case of Murad it was not the fault of Kosem who managed the regency well and did the best she could) which could announce their terrible paranoia ;their loved ones will suffer although even if they are competent leaders, the succession will leave something to be desired because of their faults ( at least in the case of Murad with Ibrahim, I am not sure about Shah Safi the grandson of Shah Abbas) , which would be an interesting parallel. The screenwriters destroy everything even when the best scenario of these historical events is better than fiction.

P.S: I'm talking about historical Murad IV whom I respect although he does things that I disapprove of. The Show Murad is in my eyes a kid who is stuck for eternity in a phase of adolescent crisis and who blames everyone including his mother 24 hours a day and thinks that he is the center of the world to the point that he tires me out (sorry again for Show Murad fans, this is once again just my opinion)

#Frustration #magnificent century kosem #magnificent century #kosem sultan #Turhan Sultan #Mihrimah Sultan #suleiman the magnificent #historical interpretation #historical inaccuracies #Murad IV #Sultan Murad #women in power

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1533-secrets-from-history · 11 months

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Valide Afife Nurbanu Sultan Vs Valide Melike Safiye Sultan.

My previous pool showed that as I expected Safiye is regarded as more powerful than Nurbanu. In this post I will compare them in several aspects (difficulties before accession, intelligence, power, influence, reputation, political stability, legacy, wealth, personality,harem management) some of them will be discussed in two aspects: During the tenure as Haseki and Valide.

Let's start with

difficulties before accession: Unlike other mem- bers of kadinlar saltanat those women became favourites of there respective husbands, during their time as prince, therefore it posed some changes for their early status and influence. I would say their situation was kind of reversed. Nurbanu had risky princehood,but her tenure as Haseki was easier without the presence of Valide, while Safiye's time as prince's concubine was without any risks,but she had to compete with Valide Sultan. Both of them had to fight, but Nurbanu had to fight for the lives of her son and husband, while Safiye fought for her power as neither her husband's nor son's life was ever threatened. So I would go to Nurbanu.

Intelligence: I have to do this as some anime showdown and go for "feats and hype". Both of them were very smart women. Nurbanu was said to be wise and unusually intelligent woman, while Safiye's description says that she was wise and sensible. Both of them proved it through their life and while Safiye had great ability to gain power and supporters, Nurbanu showed prudence in not gaining enemies. One of her better strategic decisions includes hiding Selim's body and choosing non-direct approach against Safiye. One can't be denied,both women had great political mind.

Power: As Haseki Nurbanu was undoubtedly more powerful, first and utmost reason is absence of Valide sultan. Nurbanu took all the powers and responsibilities of her predecessor, except for sharing it with her sister-in-law Mihrimah, who acted as de-facto Valide of Selim. However, Nurbanu still outranked and outpowered her, held main power in Topkapi, expanded alinces and adviced to Selim. She, even as merely a cocnubine, enjoyed the privilege of sitting in front of master/husband and speak her mind freely. Greatest indication of her power is building Atik Valide mosque complex. She during her tenure as Haseki received permission to construct a project that was titled as Valide, she herself was mentioned as future Valide or simply Valide-i-atik couple of times. In this regard, she can be consid- erd as one of two "original Hasekis", who were fulfilling all the duties for which title was created in the first place, during her time as Haseki she resived 1100 aspers daily, ridiculously more than any other concubines. In 1571 Selim Married to Nurbanu and dowered her with 110 000 ducats, that would be approximately 9.2 million akches. (Providing the statement that 59 million akches was roughly the same amount as 700 000 ducats)

Nurbanu's tenure as Haseki was much less significant than Nurbanu's. There was Valide, one of the most powerful in history, and she restricted every possible way for her to gain power. She had nothing to say in harem management. First years of their relationship was relatively peaceful as Safiye was still getting used to her new rank,but later she started her attempts to influence Murad, although it was all in vain, because it was clear only person Murad would listen was his mother and no one in the world could oppose her decisions,Nurbanu still became upset by Safiye's actions regarding it as insolent. However, Nurbanu understood Murad's extensive bond with the woman,so despite the fact she could exile Safiye without second thought, it could stain the relationship between mother and son and increase Murad's lust towards his Haseki. So instead she chose much more intellectial approach and forced him to take more concubin- es. Things became even more intense, when ambassador remarked that Haseki sultan should have had greater status than Valide as it was in Europe as consort was closer than the mother. It enraged Nurbanu,banished ambassador from capital and attacked Safiye with greater might, as she had favoured that ambassador and he clearly spoke at her behest.Nurbanu then started to spread rumors that Safiye hired witches and sorcerers to bewitch Murad,many of her close friends and servants were either killed, tortured, exiled or imprisioned to get confessions,Safiye fell from Murad's favour and Nurbanu now banished her without any consequ- ences. Nurbanu died in December of 1583 and Safiye returned from exale in about 1585 when Murad got over his trauma of loss of mother. However, it did not secure her power as Nurbanu's will left Çanfeda hatun as chief harem manager, who restricted Safiye's influence within the harem and remained as supreme authority and de-facto Valide until 1595. While she was restricted in harem by Çanfeda, boundaries were set in political spectre by her husband, who sometimes listens to Safiye,but initially she could not shape events at her liking like Nurbanu and Hurrem could. Safiye also had less stipend, while other consorts had higher then other consorts of Selim(still not anywhere close to Safiye),still they had enough construct their own charity projects.

During their tenure as Valide it seems like Safiye had more direct power over politics. She was overruling her son,while Nurbanu was technically co-ruler,despite being more politically active of the two[her son]. Safiye was even chosen as de facto regent of empire in 1596 and enjoyed undesputable power untile 1600's, when people openly resented Safiye and three major rebellion challenged her rule. First her Kira was killed and Mehmed had to demonstrate her power by restricting her mother's actions from now on Safye was more careful,but still overruling her son, it resulted in two more rebellions, first was successfully restrained,but second caused the death of Safiye's eunuch Gazanfer, whose death broke hell in harem. Everything ended when Mehmed died in 1603 and new Valide Sultan exiled her for good.

Influence: while Safiye's direct power was greater, Nurbanu's overall influence overshadowed hers. Nurbanu had supreme control over Harem and her son and she made herself first registered Valide sultan(about which I will talk in more details in legacy category),which gave her second most powerful position in empire, however she chose not to overrule her son,but rule with him, so his authority and rank would not have been questionable, therefore her influence was great than direct power, but she was directing everything according to her liking, every high ranking position was taken after her approval, Murad was not taking actions before consulting with her, she had direct hand in dismissal and appointment of grand viziers and her influence even extended to foreign politics,was in touch with Catherine de Medici and greatly helped Venice, she promoted merchandise between nations and even stopped the war. As Haseki she was the most trusted advisor of Selim and like her tenure as Valide she had hands in every major decision made, however she was mostly focused on gaining alliances. One of the greates examples of her influence is attending Friday prayers in her son's and husband's stead. This was honour of padisah and harem women were not allowed to do this, even Kösem was not allowed by pashas to do this despite pre-existed precedence, this is the indication that pasha's and people acknowledged and accepted Nurbanu as sort of equal to padisah.

Safiye's influence was also great. As Valide she literally sold high ranking positions in greatest possible prices and when her authority was challenged that formarlly reduced her power,but she continued to influence Mehmed. She even secured her infuence in advance and restricted Mehmed from giving any of his consorts Haseki rank,still two of them acquired their own power. One of them, Handan, won Safiye's power by pretending to be obedient, while Halime was resented from the beginning due to her close relationship with Mehmed undeniably intimidating nature. While, Gazanfer agha was alive he did not let anyone, including Safiye, to demonstrate resentment,but when he was killed hell broke in harem and that is when Safiye and Handan orchestrated the death of Halime's eldest son Mahmud. Her foreign affairs were slightly more important than Nurbanu's. While her mother in law had purely political relationship with France and Venice, Safiye became "online" friend of Elizabeth I of England and the two exchanged gifts on regular basis.

Reputation: Nurbanu wins that one and it's not even a close match. She was loved, respected and admired, still everyone was cautious to remain on her good side, due to her known ruthless side. One indication of this is already mentioned friday prayers. She was also fearsome, when Kapudan killic Ali pasha wanted to start a war against Venice Nurbanu wrote him a letter and warned him to not even dare to say anything about war in front of padisah,after reading it he dropped the letter in horror and when he entered the council, where Murad asked what was the matter he wanted to discuss, he openly admitted that it was no more relevant as Valide Sultan did not approve it. That indicated three things: 1. Nurbanu had reputation that terrified Kapudan pasha 2. if Nurbanu did not want something it was losing it's relevance 3. Pasha's respected her opinions so much that no one protested it.

Safiye's reputation was on the other hand very much stained, in people's eyes she was immoral person, who hired witches and took ambassadors as lovers, none of the were true of course,but existence is evidence of their attitude. She was seen as corupted person, who should not have been allowed to rule. The hatered was spread on her son as well and caused three rebellions.

Political stability: most of this was already answered in previous categories. Nurbanu's rule was undesputable and every opposition was soon ripped out by the root,before it became uncontrollable.

On the other hand, Safiye's tenure was marked by rebelions and death of her servants. Nurbanu is still winner.

Legacy:

Safiye lefts little to no legacy in ottoman empire history. She did almost no charity, her mosque was finished by Turhan and actions were more egoistical rather than on greater scale. Her greatest legacy can be considered friendly relationship with Elizabeth I and their gifts and she was highly likely admired by kosem, who visited her and even named one of her granddaughters Safiye, possible in her honour. So, could she have been role model for young, ambitious Kosem? Who knows,but I personally would not cross out this possibility.

However, Nurbanu had great impact on people, empire and generally her successors.

First things first, she made Valide Sultan legal rank, Ayse Hafsa Sultan was first slave to become Sultan,but she was not Valide Sultan as we know now, she was juts honoured mother of Sultan Suleyman han, who carried status of Sultan. In short, she was just a woman, who carried title Sultan and "Valide part" was just honorific as every noble mothers were called Valide by their children, proper address to her was either effendi or Sultan and she was registered as "mother of Sultan Suleyman han",juts like Hurrem war " mother of shehzade Mehmed" and later " mother of shehzade Selim", however Nurbanu was registered as "Valide Nurbanu Sultan", was addressed as "My Valide" and had second most powerful political rank, something that was effectively used be all of her successive Sultanate of women members. In that sense, she can be considered as virtual co-founder of the era.

Another of her legacy is Atik Valide mosque complex, one of the greatest complexes in Istanbul, she was also first woman in ottoman empire to build Library.

She moved most of the harem in Topkapi and appointed Çanfeda as First Kethuda hatun, who lattered gathered unprecedented wealth and pover, with daily stipend equal to imperial pirncesses'.

She did a lots of charity apart from the mosque having baths, she built more separate baths, fountains and personally met people in her residence yeni kapı, listen their problems and helped them. once she listened commoner herself about problem. That woman asked her to help free her son who was captured in the battle. Nurbanu promised her to help and kept it. she also had adoptive son, whom she raised, gave education, gave rank and even wanted to marry her to her granddaughter, that was failed due to her death. It may stopped her plans of wedding,but certainly did not stop her charity, after her death she freed 150 women of her service, granted 1000 gold each and donated her vast wealth in charitable projects.She was infuletal even in her death: after her death his son broke tradition of isolated mourning and followed her all way to her final path, whole time sobbing.

Wealth: it would be crime not to give that one to Safiye. She had daily stipend of 800 akches for 20 years and 3000 akches for about nine. She had personal Kiras who arranged her business, she also sold high ranking positions and in 1596 got access to 1 billions akches from treasury, though it was only temporary.

Neither Nurbanu was short of money, despite having 1000 akches during first five year as Haseki, 1100 after her marriage and 2000 during her tenure as Valide Sultan, she was also dowered 110 000 dukats abour 9.2 millions akches as I have already said. She, unlike Safiye, also conducted charitable projects Building mosque complex, fountains, Hamams and dinning places. Çanfedas small mosques took 2 million akches, about same amount was spent for fountains, Hamam would have been even more expensive, therefore much greater scale construction projects would definitely worth dozens of millions. During her death Nurbanu's fortune was immense, she freed 150 of her servants and gave them 1000 ducats each( that would mean about 84,500 in ackhes and 12,625,000 in general), about same amount she gave to treasury,but it was only a small portion of her wealth, vast majority of her fortune was donated to charity, that would make her net worth of hundreed of millions. So even if Safiye's wealth was greater, Nurbanu had better use of it.

Personality: Nurbanu was mostly benevolent person and devoted mother, she career deeply about people. While Safiye demonstrated less of it. She had intensions to be charitable, she abandoned it, which means It was not her passion, she was more egoistical and power hungry, still she was careing person and when Esther handali fell ill, she sent gifts, food and doctors to her.

Major difference between those two is that Safiye would do anything to secure power and achieve her deeds, while Nurbanu had her priorities sorted. In a same situation, when their grandsons opposed them, Safiye had him executed, while Nurbanu did everything to save him anyways, which indicates despite her hatred towards Safiye, he lived Mehmed grately and all her efforts to force Murad produce more heirs,was to restrain Safiye as Haseki,but never meant to threat Mehmed, as she could have very well used pregnant concubine to get rid of Safye and Mehmed for good.

Harem management: that would go to Nurbanu. She had complete authority over princely and imperial harems of her son and husband, while Safiye struggled to maintain order after the death of Gazanfer.

That is a reason why I think Nurbanu was more important and more influential figure of the two.

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