currently thinking about Barriss as a foil for Ahsoka in TCW is such a good example of the nature vs. nurture argument. they had basically the exact same upbringing until they were 14 or so, whenever each of them became a Padawan.
and then in TCW we see Ahsoka with this whole support system or people who love and care about her!! Anakin and Rex and Padmé and Plo and Obi-Wan and more!! and they tell her and/or show her that they care about her!!
and then Barriss has no one, aside from her friendship with Ahsoka. Luminara cares about Barriss to an extent, and she’s certainly not malicious, but she acts at best apathetic toward Barriss. (of course Luminara is just following the Jedi Code as she sees it, but still.) it’s most evident in the Geonosis arc when Luminara is basically ready to just leave Barriss for dead, while Anakin never gives up on Ahsoka. but it goes beyond just Luminara — in TCW, we never see Barriss close to anyone else.
so Barriss is the one who becomes a “villain.” I’m absolutely a Barriss defender, so I don’t want to call her that, but that’s obviously what the writers intended. she turns on the Jedi (understandably) and she turns on Ahsoka. she’s not inherently a bad person, she just didn’t get the love and support she needed, whereas Ahsoka did :(
139 notes
·
View notes
Idk if my previous posts were unclear but I don't remotely hate any Optimus version that isn't IDW or think they suck. Every Optimus is good and there's a fan (or multiple fans!) of every version of OP no matter how obscure or underrated (as well as all the other characters).
What's more questionable (or at least annoying) is when fandom ignores canon character personalities in favor of writing specific archetypes that are either out of character or repetitive/stereotyped to the point of annoyance. As an example of this, it would be a female character being called the Team Mom just because she's a woman existing in a group of (primarily male) characters even if she's not remotely motherly or nurturing. Or, as a more topical example, how often I've seen Transformers ships where even though both characters are canonically masculine (or gender neutral), fanartists love to turn one of the characters small and weak (or even outright feminine) to turn the ship into Strong Dominant Seme and Sweet Cute Uke to fit a specific kink or romantic fantasy, even if it's a disservice/OOC to portray those characters like that.
In other words, a fandom's popularity of certain characters, ships, headcanons, etc is often more informed by tropes and forcing canon to adhere to one's personal tastes, as opposed to approaching canon and trying to understand it on its own terms. I'm not talking about the quality of the source material, but rather the way that the fandom interprets the source materials in ways that don't make any sense, approach it in bad faith, or just generally don't care about canon at all. So I'm not saying one OP is better than another, my problem is when fandom consistently focuses on certain stereotypes or flanderizations of a character, and then any character that doesn't fit the popular (often stereotyped) mold is ignored or virulently rejected. In other words, I think popular fandom often does a DISSERVICE to characters whether they love them or hate them, it just takes different forms.
So, just as an example, I think one fandom caricature of Optimus that I see a lot (and heavily dislike) is making Optimus some sort of shrinking wallflower type who's innocent, sweet, and virginal, in contrast to an opposite caricature of Megatron that's big, strong, dominant, and rugged, and making ship art that forces the characters into some kind of seme/uke or borderline heteronormative romance. Despite the fact that canon Optimus (in, say, TFP for example) is tall, broadly built, deep voiced, dignified, assertive, and strong (physically and morally), completely incorrect interpretations of him as a shy feminized uke type are still pretty common to find. And it makes you ask yourself why it is so many people make MOP ship art of them of The Small One and The Large One or The Small, Cute One and The Big, Violent One when it's completely different from canon. It feels as if such fanart is made by people who just want to see seme/uke style slash ships, and if canon doesn't give them what they want, they'll simply trash it and replace it with their own version, even if it's completely OOC.
So when I said in my other post that people don't like IDW Optimus because he can't be fit into caricatures like happy dad or shy twink, I'm not saying it to say "other OPs who resemble that suck," I'm saying it to express "Fandom tends to simplify characters into easily palatable and comfortable tropes, and when they encounter a character they can't do that with, they respond by ignoring or even hating on that character."
Other versions of Optimus have the problem where fandom turns them into a stereotype instead of the actual character they are, e.g. portraying TFA OP as some poor abused damsel with no self confidence and crippling anxiety being abused by his superiors, and then they talk more about this fake uwu smoll bean cinnamon roll version of TFA OP than they do about actual canon TFA OP. And honestly I can't think of any prominent content/meta about G1 OP that isn't just "he plays basketball and does funny one liners and is Team Dad/Grandpa." (Hell, you even get that with non-Optimus characters that get simplified to just sexy twink, old grandpa, comedy relief, evil ex, Diversity Win-- She's A Lesbian, third wheel to the favored ship, etc even though there's way more depth to them than just their surface level stereotype.)
IDW OP's problem is that he can't be stereotyped like that so instead the fandom ignores him. He's not small, so they can't stereotype him as a skinny twink getting topped by a burly uke. He's not jovial or happy go lucky or extroverted, so they can't stereotype him as Team Dad or Comedy Relief. He's assertive, blunt, and has a temper, so they can't stereotype him as a shy wallflower in need of protecting. He makes catastrophic mistakes and is responsible for bad things happening, so they can't stereotype him into a sweet cinnamon roll who has never done anything wrong in his whole life or The Infinitely Wise and Kind Paragon. There's no Big Bad Authority Figure who was mean to IDW OP and traumatized him, so they can't excuse the bad things he did as "he's traumatized so he couldn't help it" and wave away his flaws as "it's his abuser's fault, they made him this way." IDW OP has the kind of depression where he's grumpy, shut off, and angry-- as opposed to the shy, sad kind of depression that just stares forlornly out of the window in a beautifully tragic way-- so they can't make him into a sad woobie kicked around unfairly by life.
Or I guess they just stereotype IDW OP as "evil bastard with no redeeming qualities that's mean to everyone for no reason, plus the writers forced everyone to like him just because he's Optimus Prime" even though that isn't accurate either.
Put bluntly, IDW OP forces fandom to contend with the idea that someone can be a good person with good intentions but still fuck up on a massive scale and maybe end up hurting more than they helped. IDW OP is messy, ugly, flawed, mean, stoic, closed off. When IDW OP has mental breakdowns or has his feelings hurt, he's loud and angry and harsh, and the consequences of what he did while he was unwell continue to haunt him long after. In other words, he actually experiences negative emotions the way a real person would, and sometimes when he's under the influence of negative emotions, he lashes out or does stupid things (like a real person might) instead of inoffensively crying in a corner somewhere. He isn't sanitized enough for a fandom that only wants Perfect Pure Good Optimus Who Never Hurts Anyone Even By Accident, so instead of IDW OP's mistakes and dark moments being treated as the logical end point of a person put in constant no-win situations until he breaks, he gets treated as if his mistakes and flaws make him an irredeemable bastard with no good qualities who should've fucked up less often to make fans actually like him.
And this is all in a fandom where 90% of the characters are war criminals and a good half of them have massacred organic planets. But god forbid IDW Optimus ever make a bad decision in a stressful situation. Or be mean to someone. Or have a character arc about how blindly idolizing people as paragons ends badly for everyone involved because no one can be that perfect. He is simply The Worst Optimus Ever and there's absolutely nothing about him worth discussing.
And just to be clear, the problem isn't the fact that some people don't like IDW OP, or he's just not their thing and they don't care.
The problem is the fact that he's consistently and actively hated by the fanbase who makes a concentrated effort to say he sucks and make sure none of their fan works ever include him. It's literally at a level where I stopped looking in the Optimus tag on this website because I was tired of people randomly going "and btw IDW OP sucks and I want to drown him in a ditch" in posts that weren't even about IDW, and I stopped looking for MegOP fic on AO3 because most of it is IDW Megatron/clearly TFP or G1 inspired continuity soup Optimus. Places that are Optimus friendly for Optimus fans, where I could reasonably expect to find positive conversations, but instead get sucker punched by hate about the character The Space Is About. And I can't even have conversations asking about why they do, bc the way 90% of them talk, I can tell they literally just didn't read the comics or deliberately misinterpreted the story.
I find it bizarre and frankly, tragic, that the hate train for IDW OP is so pervasive that people actively erase and replace him from fan works IN THE IDW UNIVERSE in a way that no other character is targeted in. I have tried so hard to understand why IDW OP gets this sort of hate and erasure when other characters who were as bad or worse than him have perfectly normal takes about them that go "yeah he kinda sucks but he's cool and I like him" or "who cares if he's problematic IRL, it's a story." The only conclusion I can come to is that because Optimus Prime (TM) has a specific brand image and is locked into being a cultural icon, he's held to a standard of The Ideal Perfect Hero instead of the way better standard of "Is he an interesting, well written character?"
17 notes
·
View notes
I like Jolyne a lot and I think she’s one of the better protags but I’ve always felt kind of bad for completely understanding why some people don’t like p6 (not talking about people complaining in bad faith who partook in the hate train it had a few years ago).
I think there’s a certain subset of fans who’re very overly-defensive as a result of said hate train who accuse any criticism or dislike of the part of coming from misogyny though and it really gets on my nerves because.. people can just not click with certain parts, it’s not uncommon for a Jojo fan to not particularly like at least one part and that’s not any different with p6. Idk it’s just not 2018 anymore, most people moved past that ‘Ugh Jolyne is a Mary Sue Jotaro with boobs, skip part 6 it’s boring as hell.’ mentality a good while ago.
yeah, as someone whose love for jojo is more rooted in the way we can see araki continue to grow and improve as an artist/writer with each part, I definitely find the defensive way some fans react to simple disinterest exhausting. I've said it a lot on here but this is pretty much how I feel about part 4 - story structure issues aside, there's just something about the setting/genre/tone that doesn't appeal to me. meanwhile it's possibly the most beloved jojo part, which is fine lol!
jumping off what you said though, I find the way some fans selectively mishear legit criticisms of araki's writing exhausting....like one of my biggest gripes with stone ocean is the way hermes is completely sidelined for a large chunk of the part. she has such an interesting setup, araki totally fumbles her story and she ends up being one of the most underwhelming jobros because of it. this is a criticism of the way araki's sexist writing makes stone ocean a weaker (and to me, a slightly less enjoyable) part, it's not about thinking hermes isn't a good deuteragonist because she's a woman lol, but that's what some people choose to hear
and of course I do think that even if a lot of the fanbase is past that overt sexism about stone ocean/jolyne, misogyny absolutely tints the way many people read and talk about the part (or neglect to talk about it), so I completely get the frustration and why some fans might have their hackles raised about certain statements....the people who you're talking about are unfortunately a loud minority 😕 which sucks because all the stocean enthusiasts I follow are actual scholars and philosophers
10 notes
·
View notes
I don't like bitchy mean men or women or in general people regardless of their gender
I don't want more mean female characters, I just want female characters to be allowed to be characters on their own, without it being accentuated that they're feminine and woman™ and empowering whatever this word is supposed to mean
What I mean is
Everybody knows about the bechdel test, but what I prefer to do instead in my head is flipping character's gender to see, how much of their personality is dependant on their gender identity. And with male characters it's more often than not that nothing really changes, but with female characters it often reveals that half of their identity if not more is really damn gendered, and without those gendered properties/roles there's not much left to be a distinguished traits of their character, and THIS in my opinion is the problem that needs to be addressed, not that there's not enough compelling villains or difficult women in a way men are allowed to be difficult on screen. Because what media that is trying to be progressive often does is it creates, yes, female character with significant role, whose character trait is...just "better than men" or "empowering female figure", whose whole character is AGAIN heavily gendered and can't really be gender-reversed with preserving the essence of their being.
Fuck that, I don't want more mean bitches that remind me of some highschool bullies with too much spite, I want more compelling people who happened to be also women whose character isn't revolving around their gender identity.
19 notes
·
View notes
falling in love with ships that are popular with mostly antis is the worst thing in the world yall like half the time me and the other shippers have each other blocked and the rest of the time it feels like i only see the most milquetoast posts about my otps
like cielinny's the biggest one, cuz yeah theyre teenagers and its fun to see them acting like it BUT ALSO they are two morally grey characters who have both murdered and been traumatized as children and one of whom views the other as his savior and both of whom work to protect the other physically and/or mentally and so many people ignore or forget that smh
like,,, yes yes i also love them making sebastians life a living hell with dumb teen antics more of that sure, but i would love to talk about finny ripping someones arm off for daring to hurt ciel while theyre undercover and ciel being the only one to calm him down by taking his hand and kissing his bloody fingers which he does without hesitation because seeing someone who does not (by demon contract terms) have to kill for him just do so with no hesitation or remorse makes ciels little gay heart swoon, can we talk about that guys i would love to talk about that-
26 notes
·
View notes
Hm to say Barbs lies wouldn't actually be accurate. It's more that he avoids giving information at all through evasion or indirect answers, or gives some information up with the intent to mislead.
One example would be in that referenced vid call with Luci+Dia where Dia asks if Barbs has a faerie counterpart. Barbs then is like "well, who knows?" and "Hmm, i wonder?" and so on. This continues until Luci is like "You're avoiding the question to entertain Dia, aren't you?" and Barbs still doesn't actually confirm this because he's like "Maybe I am."
So while he doesn't actually perform the act of lying itself, he does so by redirection or concealment. Both of which Dia's lie detecting abilities would not catch. He also does the same thing whenever the topic of him loving mc or not comes up.
6 notes
·
View notes