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fucktheroyals · 3 years

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You know after reading and reading and reading peoples theories and the meta from before the spn finale aired and the meta writers reactions to the finale I think I have a theory of my own. We don't have any answers tho, so this is pure speculation. If you wanna add something to support or discredit any of this that's cool but there's too many things floating around. Know I dont have proof for this conclusion at all. A lot of what I say is just guesses based on previous facts.

This all came together in my head when I realized how much this finale REEKS of the original producers and who the show was originally for. It REEKS of Robert Singer. Like if the execs started saying they didn't want it, Robert Singer was the one pushing that the story was about the brothers. That kinda thing.

Then, I was thinking of the problems in this episode and it struck me these are all of Supernatural biggest issues and to be honest all of it feels completely deliberate.

Take the sexism for example, Supernatural in it's later seasons largely out grew this, we have Jody, Rowena, Donna, Charlie, Mary, Claire (and even a wayward sisters pilot with MORE women/girls) all making regular appearances. They're mainly good characters and mostly aren't there to hurt our boys. Rowena, of course, is the one outlier being very about herself but it's clear she still cares for them, I mean its part of her development. But they're all real, with character flaws just like everyone else. (And we have Death too and she was POC 😭 THANK GOD)

Now look at the earlier half of Spn, we have Ellen and Jo, who's appearances were far in between. There's Bela in season 3, recurring for quite a bit (5 eps), but she is a character that is only there for herself, definitely not found family (unlike Ellen & Jo), and she's got more episodes in season 3 than Ellen and Jo in season 2 who aren't seen again til season 5. The "fans" send in hate mail after hate mail to try to get these characters off, and eventually they are. Then there's Ruby who's character stayed for a whole two seasons and was a largely recurring character. Why does she get to say so long? She's a plot device. She's supposed to be there to betray Sam. She has to stay (plus Jared obviously likes her). But she's not just a character the writers like writing about. Same with Lilith. Obviously not as recurring but still a plot device. Did they get hate mail tho? You can bet on it. Why? because tHeY'rE gOnNa PuSh ThE bOyS (Dean and Sam) aPaRt ThE sHoW iS aBoUt ThE bOyS oNlY. Without even thinking about the hate mail, just notice how large the difference is from how women are seen in the earlier seasons to the later seasons. Misha got tons of hate mail too for being a character that could split up the boys (probably only being allowed to say because he a man, thanks sexist producers and execs).

Only after Castiel was killed off and then Castiel fans successfully (thank you guys) got him back on the show did the hate mail largely simmer, which means female character's were allowed to stay! Which has lead us to a show with a good amount of female characters. But can you imagine having to kill characters off time and time again because people keep complaining that the show is "only about the boys." Fun times really.

So now we get to this final and we see sexism. But it wasn't just the plain old regular sexism you find in the earlier days of spn. Because now, there ARE women to talk about, talk to. But this episode was DESOLATE women wise, unless they were used for plot (which is also sexist!). Small scenes, they're barely there. Women gets her tongue cut out. Random women from s1 gets killed. Sam doesn't SPEAK of Eileen. Nothing. No mention of any female characters from the boys mouths unless they were from/in this episode itself. That's WIERD. I know we've all said it. But that goes beyond forgetting about characters. I mean its SAM'S GIRLFRIEND for Christ's sake. There is NO REASON they couldn't have said Eileen's name. Notice how Sam's wife is just... faceless. This is literally an age old sexist trope. Like... one of the things about bringing Mary back to life for s12+ is that it takes this trope... of basically a generic mother, and gives her life and feelings, whether you like them or not, they're real feelings. They said Mary isn't just a mom she's a person. Mary's existence in the later half of spn is to fix this kind of female tropes that fall upon her character, to not let these her stay a 2 dimensional character. They said we should know she's more than just the mom who tried to save her kid. Do that is the exact opposite of Sam getting a nameless, faceless wife. The sexism of the old spn wasn't just brought back, it was completely amplified. It wasn't just accidental or some exec "fixing" the story it was DELIBRATE. Whoever wrote that, didn't do ALL OF THAT by accident. Because an exec or a producer who doesn't see the flaws in old supernatural isn't going to write it that deliberately.

Let's bring it back to s10 when Charlie was killed (singer was mainly to blame). Dead in the bathtub, age old classic of burying ur gays. If you were here you know people never let Supernatural live that down. THEY KNOW what bury ur gays means. Hell, Robbie Thompson left because of Charlie's death and you think the writers don't know what it means? I mean both Bobo Berens (especially) and Steve Yockey's careers are centered around LGBT+ storytelling and you think they don't know? They know. They know.

And Dean wasn't just apart of the bury your gays trope, it is so far BEYOND that. Dean being killed on a rusty nail/screw, the tongues ripped out, things that seemed to be meant for other people. Jensen's acting in the last two episodes was giving us "DEAN RECIPROCATES" but no one ever actually saying it. I think it's clear that Dean was killed for being Bi. They didn't address it for a reason, they just silenced him. His narrative was supposed to be about letting him be HIM for the first time, to say what his feelings are instead of having them miscommunicated, and instead of doing that, they just silenced him. And the more we look at this scene the more horrific it gets. The more it's a complete slap in the face and it's supposed to be. Some guy who knows nothing about the LGBT can't write a scene this horrific.

Some guy who knows nothing about Dean couldn't write a scene that deconstructs all of Dean's character development and gives Dean his worst nightmare. I MEAN DEAN WANTED TO LIVE HIS LIFE! THEY DIDNT HIDE THAT JOB APPLICATION (or whatever job related thing that was) IN THERE FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES THEY WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST SITUATION. Dean isn't Barney from HIMYM. If you watched HIMYM then you'll know Barney went from being a stereotypical ladies man and treating women terribly to being in love with a women and treating her right and working hard for it. The last episode of HIMYM (why its so bad) Barney's character development is thrown out and he's back to being a stereotypical ladies man. You don't need to know Barney's character very much to do that.

To kill Dean during a hunt his father never finished, to not have anyone at his funeral, to have Dean die young like his life didn't matter. Those are Dean's worst fears and you'd only truly know that if you watched the gin episode in s3, where they are basically laid out for you. You HAVE to know Dean's character to tear him apart like this.

This episode took all the core elements of the show and did a complete 180° the name of the episode itself is "Carry on" and Dean and Sam very much did not carry on. Sam grieving his entire life so that he good get to heaven and see Dean again. Dean being ready to live his life, despite the enormous pitfalls and learning to love himself only to be killed. "Family don't end with blood." Um.... it did in that episode either literally with Dean's death or you know BECAUSE NONE OF THEIR FOUND FAMILY WAS THERE. Not Jack, Not Cas, Not Eileen, Not Donna, Not Charlie, Not Jody, Not Claire... on and on we go. No one was there, nobody was even mentioned. Dean's funeral, no one even called that we know of. It was just Sam and Dean. Sam and Dean. And Bobby. Don't forget Bobby. But yeah Sam and Dean.

That's what the show is about right, the brothers.

Except it's not anymore. It hasn't been for years.

Cas not being there was deafening but it brought us to a major point. Becky. Becky's telling us about the terrible ending.

And many of us are wondering why would they literally tell us this is the worst ending and then... make it the ending.

Now before we move on, it very apparent many of you think Dabb doesn't ship Deancas. And Dabb doesn't care about the characters.

Say what you will about any plot holes in his writing, the point he is VERY GOOD at writing the characters, and giving us good ones.

Why do we know Dabb ships Deancas? (ill say when its cowrote, other wise its not) cowrote ep 8.02 - purgatory "I prayed to you, Cas, every night" "Cas, Buddy, I need you." "I have a price on my head, and I've been trying to stay one step ahead of them, to – to keep them away from you." 8.08 Hunteri Heroici - Cas helps them hunt! 😊❤ Dean & Cas have a serious convo about why Cas doesn't want to see/go to heaven. 8.22 Dean's mad at Cas. Sam's explanation of why Dean should be easy on Cas: "It's Cas." Dean then points out how he'd knife anybody else if they did what Cas did. 9.10 - Cas comforts Dean when Dean can't take seeing Sam (Gadreel) being tortured anymore. Also tons of Cas. 9.20 (bloodlines) - Canonical couple parallel "I was there, where were you" 9.22 The angels make Cas choose between them and killing Dean and he "gave up an entire army for one guy" 10.09 Claire's reintroduction. Cas heavy ep. DeanCas date. 10.22 THE PRISONER - u know the ep where Dean beats the shit out of Cas but loves him enough to not kill him.

We COULD keep going but I think I've made my point. If Robert Singer is the guy that is like "the show is about Sam and Dean only" Andrew Dabb is the DeanCas shipper. And you could even say a Cas stan.

Notice! How in s13 for SEVEN episodes we have a story that revolves around Dean's grief about losing Cas. Notice! How often the stories in all these seasons have a focus on their relationship. THAT is Andrew Dabb. If it weren't for him doing that, we wouldn't be able to easily say after Dean's lack of a response to Cas' confession, that Dean reciprocates.

To me, when I was (binge) watching s12 for the first time, I thought damn this is really got a lot of DeanCas. So I went to look at who was in charge, who was writing. I saw Andrew Dabb, associated him with Deancas episodes, saw all the new writers, Bobo, and then I saw that Yockey is known for same sex stories and it clicked. Dabb assembled a team to give us Destiel. THAT WAS IN SEASON 12!!!!!!!!

The amount of people saying he's homophobic flabbergast me. Open your eyes! That isn't what's going on.

Imagine making a show and trying to right all the wrongs of Supernatural. Imagine trying to write the greatest love story ever told and you have the entire season planned out for it to end off beautifully, it may possibly be your greatest achievement when it's done and then boom. someone comes in and tells you you aren't allowed to make Dean bi or make destiel endgame, after he was most probably already given the go ahead.

Sure. You could imply he's bi or into cas still in a way. Still make nice-ish ending. just give everyone what the kinda want.

Or you could scrap the last season, nothing close to a canonical bisexual Dean Winchester or Deancas endgame in site. People can be done with it be happy with the show, continue to live their lives in ignorance as to how close they were to Canon destiel.

OR you can lead everyone to the very closest you can get them to what you were aiming for and then show everyone the ugly truth and reality. Light it all on fire. Burn the show to the ground in your wake. Try your darnedest to making these people's (the people saying no) pockets suffer. Show us, the audience, what happened. Show us what this show really is.

I've seen people talk about the ending being changed during covid but I dont think that happened. I think what happened was Dabb already had this season planned out before it even started. Obviously the details were wobbly but it was all lead up to this ending. Destiel endgame, Canon Bisexual Dean, whatever it was. They were ready to write the greatest love story ever told and then someone shut it down.

Imagine the pain that must have caused them to be told no when they already said yes. They must have been so excited to give this to us.

I think someone (some producers) told him what this show is "really" about. The brothers. Can you imagine, after being told no, some kinda bullshit like this is said to you: "Why aren't you bringing it back to the brothers, Andrew? that's what the shows about. What with all this homosexual stuff, you know the audience won't like that. Not really." Imagine the original producers pushing this kind of view on you. "You know when we started it was Sam and Dean. It should end with Sam and Dean." That kinda sounds like someone huh? huh.

So why give us a nice acceptable finale, when you can take every problem Supernatural's had either up front or behind the scenes and create a finale so incredibly bad that people don't want to watch it anymore.

Someone made a good point about how Sam was originally supposed to be the main focus (this isn't to put any hate on Sam or Jared). Dean and Sam are the main characters but Sam was supposed to be the focus and for Dean to have become the focus, must have annoyed the producers because... well here we are. They wouldn't listen to Jensen. The producers liked this ending. Jensen's opinion didn't matter to them.

In some ways, if this is really what happened, it can be seen as childish from Dabb. To hurt all of us like that. Yes, he's hurting the producers, the execs, the cw. But to hurt us? Yeah it stings.

But in other ways, if this is really what happened, this is Dabb showing us the muck and gunk under the shiny surface. The hate for Misha. The hidden hate for Jensen. The underlying sexism. The underlying homophobia. The people REALLY in charge don't care about us, they just want our money. He needed to open our eyes and free us, at least free the people that he was writing for. The people he sees that care about this show.

This is the ending the powers that be wanted and its a big fuck you for a reason. I dont think this is Dabb spitting in our faces for loving this show, I think this is him trying to get revenge for us.

But from here, you can see it how u want it. If this is really what happened, I'm not in charge of your emotions, if you wanna be mad be mad if you wanna be grateful be grateful. And you don't have to believe me either I said this is speculation.

Also, as for all of the rumors like there being shots to the confession scene that we didn't see, which Jensen himself implied, I think that might have been a last ditch effort to canonized DeanCas but obviously it was cut. Like the name change was pretty clear. As for Misha possibly having shot some stuff for 20 I dont know what to tell you. If it's true I dont know where the blame would lie.

I do think however, that if all this was the case, the writers were prepared to become villians here. I mean they told us the writers were villians with Chuck right? So. Who knows what went down so they could give us such a vile ending. It could've been the producers or the writers, who truly knows. I do think tho that people we "trust" did some pretty shitty things to push the narrative in certain directions so now one would see this as the actual ending that was coming.

So again do with my SPECULATION what you will. This was in no way meant to put Dabb on a pedestal or anything. Just meant to give a bit of perspective.

(Also Jensen didn't unfollow Dabb recently he was already unfollowed for years)

#15x20 wank #spn finale wank #spn finale meta #15x20 meta #Andrew Dabb #spn #supernatural #castiel #dean winchester #destiel #deancas #misha collins #jensen ackles #long post #sorry im on mobile #this is the longest post i have ever writen

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littlewetbeast · 3 years

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it says something (i don't know what exactly.. but nothing good) that i'm still mad about the spn finale (the whole crappy final season really) six months later. and i haven't re-watched a single second of it. (and won't.) the fanfic (fandom) version of spn is genius. an absolute delight. the real thing is a big pile of shit. season 15 just underscored that.

god, yeah. i mean, having gone back to watching spn, i was shocked at how bad it was. because the art and content the spn fandom produces is absolutely incredible, it’s easy to forget that a large part of the source material is a steaming pile of garbage. i feel like s15 is its own beast though.

#rosa answers #s15 crit #anti spn #i mean OF COURSE there are enjoyable bits of spn #i do unironically love a lot about spn #i genuinely had fun with carver era seasons #s12 has steve yockey episodes #and i desperately love dadstiel #but watching through towards the end it feels like witnessing a car crash in slow motion

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mittensmorgul · 5 years

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To me Yockey is arguably the best writer on the show; he is the only one whose episodes I love 100%. It really annoys me that he writes so few eps (last season he only did 3) while Bucklemming gets like 5 with like 3 of them being myth arc ones. Tbh the writing would be SOOOOO much better if he got to do more episodes. Out of curiosity who is your favorite writer?:)

Yockey is great, agreed. :)

I mean, I like most of the writers for different reasons, and can appreciate their stylistic differences, you know? I’ll get to that in a second, but first I’m gonna address the writing room hierarchy for a second… because that’s why the newer writers are only getting 3 episodes each, especially in a shorter season with only 20 slots available…

Dabb, as showrunner, gets the first and last episodes, and this year also the 300th. Last year he co-wrote 13.10 with Bobo, and in s12 he also wrote 12.09, as the post-winter-hellatus episodes.

Dabb’s been around for a really long time, and I get his writing style. Writing the season premiere and season finale every season now, he’s basically setting the foundation that the rest of the season rests on, and he gets the job done.

❂So that’s a total of 3 out of 20 accounted for.

Bobo is essentially next in line, and he has been getting 4-5 episodes per season since 11. 4 in 11 (co-wrote 11.17 with Dabb), 5 in 12 (co-wrote 12.19 with Meredith Glynn), 4 in 13 (co-wrote 12.09 with Dabb). I don’t know if he’s going to have 3 or 4 episodes this season, so I’m gonna guess it will be 3 just for the purposes of estimation…

I LOVE Bobo’s writing. I LOVE that he’s still giving us such powerful Wayward-adjacent content despite the heartbreak of not getting the spinoff we all deserved.

❂So that’s a total of 6 of the 20 accounted for.

This brings me to the three newer writers on the team…

Davy Perez has given us some fantastic episodes. As far as I know, he’ll be getting three again this season. I mean, dude gave us cowboys AND tentacles… and Dean being a complete nerd for comics and horror movies, “I love you, I love all of you,” and Donna kicking ass in 13.11. How can you NOT love that?

❂So that’s a total of 9 of the 20 accounted for.

Meredith Glynn has written some of the most beautiful, heartbreaking, and hopeful character studies that we’ve ever had on this show. She gave us Cas fighting for himself and facing his issues in the Empty, she gave us Dean losing himself and finding himself, and she gave us THE FUCKING MIXTAPE. Heck. Her love for all the characters is just written in big loopy letters all over her episodes.

I don’t know if this information will change, because it’s italicized on Jess’ s14 spoiler sheet, which means it’s still unconfirmed, but Meredith is listed as having four episodes in s14… 5 & 8 are already confirmed, but she’s tentatively listed for 14 and 17, too… She did write four in 12 and 13, as well, so that seems legit. :P

❂ So that’s 13 of the 20 accounted for.

Steve Yockey. Heck he writes such rich, layered episodes. They are a meta goldmine that we could spend weeks analyzing. Isn’t it convenient we’ve got an extra week to revel in 14.06? :D He’s probably on the list for three episodes again this season, and we’re lucky to have them.

❂ So that’s 16 of the 20 accounted for.

That leaves 4 for Bucklemming… and while they have a long history of ickiness and terrible things, they aren’t entirely horrible. I mean, 14.02 got the job done. 13.22 did as well. Heck, 13.18 too. They do write to the themes, and even when they fall short of the other writers in terms of the layering and nuance and meta-level of love for the show, they’re there and they’re not going away. I try to focus on what actually matters in terms of plot advancement in their episodes, and side-eye their bizarre takes on canon and weird retcons that only seem to apply to their episodes.

(and honestly bless the other writers for all their little jabs at some of the eye-roll worthy stuff in their episodes… I am giving significant glances at all of them and sliding them all fresh baked cookies and shots of bourbon, because I see what they did there…)

But yeah, I love all the writers in general (and even try to see the good in bucklemming episodes, because I love this show enough to make the effort worth it to me…)

#spn writers #imma post this and then tag it because the inbox doesn't autocomplete tags >.>#anonymous #this is an andrew dabb appreciation blog (except when it comes to car stuff)#this is a bobo berens appreciation blog #bucklemming canon acrobatics #steve yockey appreciation tag #meredith glynn appreciation tag #davy perez appreciation tag #dabb vs cars

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poorreputation · 5 years

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SPN 14X10: “Nihilism” Notes

Official summary (via IMDB)

Michael retakes control of Dean as his army of monsters continue to move in; Sam devises a plan to reach Dean and stop Michael before anyone else dies.

Written by: Steve Yockey

Spoilers below ( @evvvissticante )

This was an excellent episode. A lot of strong, emotional highs, and intense throughout.

Yockey has managed to do the impossible, for me, and make Michael’s actions and dialogue engaging, and even a little funny. A highlight is Jensen, as Michael, doing a Castiel impression, just like the ones we’ve seen at conventions. Other little moments I enjoyed were Michael making it clear that he could hear Sam, Cas and Jack talk about him, and then the three only move five feet away. Those small lines and touches are just enough to keep this episode from being too bleak.

So, you know how several meta writers have said that TFW’s endgames are to become J2M? Well, Dean’s dream is running a bar, and serving up drinks like the Cosmic Cowboy. Honestly, Yockey, Dabb, the rest of you, setting me on fire would be kinder.

Pamela returning only broke my heart a lot. Her wearing a shirt that read “To Hell And Back” was also a nice touch. Bonus line I loved, Cas scrambling to remind Dean that Pamela being blinded was an accident. That... might not have been a joke, but I have a twisted sense of humor, so. Anyway, why Pamela, of all people? Running a bar, they could’ve brought in anyone from the Roadhouse days, but they brought in Pam, (this may be due to actor availability, so who knows). Since Michael tried to get in TFW’s heads by saying stuff like, “You only tolerate Cas, and he keeps making mistakes”, and in Dean’s mind is the victim of one of Cas’ first mistakes, Pamela Barnes. But, she’s happy and healthy here, and Cas exists in Dean’s dream world, too. Maybe this is a way Michael’s trying to get to Dean, knowing Sam and Cas would find a way into his head?

On a related note, just before Sam and Cas go into Dean’s head, Michael taunts them by saying, “I believe in you, Cas.” Making fun of the faith Dean has in Cas, I see you, Yockey.

What Michael had to say about God was interesting, too. I thought that every AU had its own Chuck, Amara, Entity, etc. There’s a Death in Michael’s world they enslaved, but allegedly only one Chuck. The wording Michael uses gives the impression he’s chasing after one person, and that one God has made countless worlds, trying again and again in vain to get things right. This leaving Michael feeling like, well, Lucifer in S11, even saying things like he wants to destroy God’s creations, is very reminiscent of Lucifer in S12. The only thing that makes me think this is all BS, is that right before this scene, Michael was trying to get in Jack’s head, as well, and Cas warned Jack not to listen. Next scene, right after, Michael’s trying to get to Cas, using Cas’ own fears about being abandoned by God.

That, or this is another plot detail that will go nowhere. Hey, no episode’s perfect.

Jack using his powers to destroy Michael’s creatures, and Cas telling him off for it. Like, we all know this ain’t the end of it, and Jack will be forced to go to that well, again, it’s just a question of how desperate is the situation that he thinks it’s okay? Not that we should be worried, or anything.

Just like how every person watching saw Dean go, “Hey, let’s just shove Mikey in this closet/fridge! That’ll hold ‘em.” instantly went, “That’s not gonna hold him.”. Like, it’s SPN, that’s never good enough, and by the end of the episode, we had Death herself to explain, as much.

Now, I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t satisfying to see someone chew out the Winchesters for doing something noble, but dumb. I think I’d spontaneously combust. And any time Billie tears them a new one is a good time. What’s not a good time is her handing Dean that book. Which, she just left with him? Is Sam, Cas or Jack going to find that, soon? Anyway, I, and everyone else in the fandom right now, am anxious to know what’s written inside.

Although, Michael bringing up Chuck, the struggling writer, turning out draft after draft of a perfect world, and then ending the episode on a shot of Dean holding a book with his potential destiny in his hands, is interesting, to say the least.

So, this was a great episode. There’s still a ton I’ve not touched on, but this is just what’s on my mind, at the moment. If you got through this, let me know what you thought!

#SPN #S14 #S14 spoilers #S14 speculation #14X10 #Nihilism #Steve Yockey #Dean #Sam #Jack #Cas #AU!Michael #Michael!Dean #notes #TFW 2.0

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awed-frog · 6 years

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Hi! Question, what was all that about the sacred oath? If you have the time to explain shortly I'd be grateful :)

Hi there! I’m guessing you’re catching up with S12? The short answer to that is, We don’t know, exactly, but Steve Yockey is doing the Lord’s work so it must be something awesome and #BLESS.

As for the long answer: the concept of ‘sacred oath’ was mentioned once in the episode Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets (S12E10). In a flashback to 1901, we see Cas - in a different vessel - explaining to his brother Akobel why a unit of angels is there to kill him: “You have broken our most sacred oath, and the penalty is death.”. From the context, it’s unclear whether Cas is referring to the creation of a Nephilim or to the fact Akobel’s chosen to leave Heaven to share his life with a human or even to the sexual congress between an angel and a human, and of course - the implications, especially concerning Destiel, are huge, which is why I seem to remember the fandom lost its freaking mind for entire week and everyone was just running around like -

Now, Yockey is officially my favourite writer on Supernatural, which means every single thing he writes is more canon than canon to me, so this is how I read it - there must be a promise of some kind - if not a physical thing and angels spitting in their hands and cutting their palms open and chanting in a circle, then a sort of rule they are born into and no one breaks - something which is about not getting too close to humans, or else. It’s likely the death sentence is carried out for those angels who create Nephilim, since Nephilim are dangerous and more powerful than angels and also wildly unpredictable and difficult to hunt (we know angels can feel when a Nephilim is conceived but can’t actually find the thing, so that’s a problem for them), but we know for sure developing feelings for human beings and jumping in bed with them is not particularly encouraged either (in fact, as far as we know it’s severely punished). In fact, I can think of only a handful of angels who crossed that border and they’re all rebels and fugitives: Balthazar, Gabriel (who, now I think about it, actually had sex with images of women he created himself and a goddess from a different religion, so he might actually be off the hook), Lucifer (whatever sex he had with Sam was about torturing him, but it’s undeniable that at one point he did feel something for Sam, and maybe it wasn’t anything positive but it was too much anyway), and, of course, Cas himself.

(Plus Anna, and maybe someone else I’m forgetting?)

Anyway, proper angels, like Hannah, have showed distress in being subjected to human feelings, and understanding humans is canonically presented as difficult and frustrating and something angels don’t handle very well, if at all (see: Cas’ entire history with Dean). Now, in S12E10, Ishim confirmed once and for all something we’d long suspected: that the big problem for Heaven is not that angels are a threat to humans, but that humans are a threat to angels; that by developing feelings, angels may become vulnerable. This, of course, is not a new idea and it’s also a concept Supernatural has been toying with since S4 - hence Cas’ unwilling admission to Dean, remember? “I was getting too close to the humans in my charge. To you. Even to your brother. They feel I’ve begun to express emotions. The doorways to doubt. This can impair my judgment.” (S04E16). What’s more or less new is that with time, Supernatural has shifted a central issue that used to be mostly between Sam and Dean so it would include every major player in this universe, and arguably made it into the most important question on the show: does love make you stronger or weaker? In the case of non-human characters, so far the narrative hasn’t been very forgiving: love made both Crowley and Cas more vulnerable, and led them to self-sacrifice or questionable choices more than once. Love is also the reason why Benny is still living a shitty life in Purgatory and - in a way - the reason some people chose ‘death by Winchester’ rather than being turned and harm their loved ones (think Madison, for instance). As for humans, well, things are somehow even bleaker. Love is why Amelia Novak lost her mind and sacrificed her daughter, and why Jimmy Novak lost his life and his family (his love for God at first, and for Claire second). Love is why Mary sold Sam to a demon, and why both John and Dean went to Hell, and love is also where Sam found enough strength to conquer Lucifer and jump into the Cage, thus damning himself to an eternity of suffering. The list goes on and on, and while loving one another can lead to good things for our heroes (like Dean saving Cas from mind control with the power of his purely platonic affection), it can also cause the death of hundreds, if not thousands, of regular people (think Sam and Dean choosing not to close the Gates of Hell). In this sense, Steve Yockey’s insertion of a ‘sacred oath’ preventing angels from, let’s say, have sex with humans under pain of death is perfectly coherent with the narrative and also putsanother obstacle on the path of our favourite subtextual love story: Cas is already despised by his kind for a number of reasons - and, at this point, it’s safe to assume many of his brothers think he and Dean are definitely doing it - but this oath is both a binding law and an internal boundary for him - something he’s carried within himself for millions of years. We know sex is something Cas knows well from a theoretical point of view and also something he actively enjoys; we used to read the fact he hasn’t sought any partner for himself (and deliberately pushed Hannah away) since he regained his Grace as a) a consequence of the world basically burning up in flames around him week in, week out and b) his profoundly non-romantic friendship with Dean, but maybe there’s this other thing we need to factor in - a last connection to his truest angelic self and the first of Heaven’s laws - an almost innate wariness and distrust and fear of such a deep connection - not only of sex, but of sex with someone with whom he’s shared way too much already.

Hell, who knows. That’s how I like to read the situation because, again, I like Yockey’s take on this world, but as I said above, we actually don’t know much about this ‘sacred oath’ thing - it’s just yet another tantalizing tessera of a world we somehow still can’t grasp, not fully - something enormous and life-changing and incredibly interesting which, I’m betting half my liver on this, will never be mentioned again.

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helianthus21 · 7 years

Note

Hellooo. As you know I haven't been so much with watching the new Supernatural episodes. But like the BMOL and especially that Mr. Ketch seem a little bit creepy around Castiel? Am I getting the wrong vibe? I mean speaking for Britain, yes we would like a Castiel, send a Castiel now please. But not in that creepy acting like he isn't a person way (I know 'person' is kinda subjective here...but also it's not).

Hii:DYep that’s exactly the vibe I’m getting too! I’ve read a meta somewhere that says they’re treating him like the Winchester’s servant and that’s actually kinda like I see it too (but is not true ofc)I don’t know how to feel about that Mick guy (the one who gave Cas his number) but Mr Ketch is one creepy mf and Cas should smite him like yesterday. I think they’d really like to have an angel at their side they can use to their advantage or study for their angel lore like he’s some kind of experiment because the way they were eyeing him up was just creepy.I’m just happy that Cas ain’t taking no shit (”I don’t sweat under any circumstances” which is such a lie though:P, “My name is Castiel [not halo, excuse you]”).

Also, I’m kinda hoping they’re gonna show some hunters from Britain (or another country in Europe... :P) that give a positive example in contrast to the BMoL? I mean nothing against Sam and Dean of course, but I’d love some non-Americans who save the day once in a while and are not villains? Just saying^^ As for context (spoilers!): Sam called the BMoL for help behind the rest of TFW’s back because Bucklemming (I’m sorry but no way am I gonna take this as in character), Mr Ketch saved them from the Secret Service or sth (haven’t paid that much attention because, again, Bucklemming) and gave them a magic Harry Potter egg that sent Luci back in the cage?? (I didn’t get it either, he might or might not still be free). Now the Winchesters (to which I count Cas btw) were rather impressed by the equipment of the BMoL (grenade launcher) but they were still very suspicious of them far as I can tell. I’d still like them to say with words that Cas is not their attack dog and that he belongs to their family? Seriously, he won’t get it if it isn’t spelled out for him:PAlso, yes, please send a Cas to Britain. I’ll just hop on a plane then and I’ll be there in about an hour or two^^

#super-sootica #actually longer bc airport stuff #but anyway #cas is the earth angel #and btw i know i already said this but #you should really watch the jody episode;)#aka 12x06 i think #because that was the best s12 ep so far #the ones following that were...questionable imo #only flaw is it has no cas in it^^#castiel #bmol #mr ketch #mick whatshisname #sorry for the late reply but i have sth to do to which the deadline's tomorrow ugh #replies #aand steve yockey who wrote 12x06 #is also writer of the cas episode so i have hope #*fingers crossed*

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sprinkleofhappinessuniverse · 6 years

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fav writer? character you identify with most? fav episode? would you read Carver Edlund’s books? If you could switch places with any character in spn, who would it be? most satisfying death? saddest death? who was the first character you loved?

fav writer? Firstly (and most obviously) Eric Kripke, Sara Gamble (she's written some fantastic eps and has a great understanding of the characters, Jeremy Carver and Steve Yockey (who imo doesn't get enough appreaciation. In S12 the three eps he did write I felt he captured the true essence of the show and really got to the nitty gritty of the characters. I especially love the way he wrote Cas and Dean. character you identify with most? Charlie - 100%, fav episode? Oooooh so many choices! Favourites include: Nightshifters, Jus In Bello, Born Under A Bad Sign, Changing Channels, French Mistake, Baby, Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets and Celebrating The Life of Asa Fox. (There's probs loads I'm missing lol) would you read Carver Edlund’s books? Hells yeah I would. If you could switch places with any character in spn, who would it be? Uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh...I really love Jo and Charlie so forgetting their horrible demise maybe one of them? most satisfying death? Azazel, Raphael, Abbadon & Dick Roman. saddest death? Again so many: Sam in S2, Dean is S10, Charlie, Bobby, Kevin, Alicia, Eileen... but I think the one that hurt me the most was Jo and Ellen's. I CRY EVERY TIME. It was so tragically beautiful and the fact they died saving the boys. Ellen and Jo's relationship reminds me of the relationship I have with my mum so I think that's why theirs hits me particularly hard. who was the first character you loved?Dean. I remember the exact moment I loved him too . Ep 2 Wendigo when he pulled out a bag of M&Ms I was like "yup, he's my fave."

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thevioletcaptain · 7 years

Text

12.20 Twigs & Twine & Tasha Banes

THE VERDICT

Have I mentioned how big a fan I am of Steve Yockey? Because I’m a big fan of Steve Yockey. The new writers that joined in S12 are fucking amazing.

Also, I am in love with Speight’s direction. This episode was gorgeous, and I’m thrilled to know that he’ll be directing again next season. Seriously, he’s been added to my slightly absurd mental list of people I’d love to have direct my scripts when I’m a wildly successful TV writer.

A play-by-play recap with meta-adjacent notes is under the cut!

ALL THE THINGS

THEN!

“Dad’s on a hunting trip, and he hasn’t been home in a few days.” Hey it’s that classic song from the first album! :P

Witches exist!

Max and Alicia also exist! And are witches! And also hunters! And are also super cute!

Ketch put a sneaky sneak device in the bunker!

Mick met an untimely death right when I was starting to like him!

The colt is a liquid!

Cas got beaten up by Dagon & now he’s hopped up on Nephilim KoolAid!

Sam appears reasonably concerned about this! Dean probably cried about it!

NOW!

Thunder and rain… ominous.

We’re in Rock River, Wyoming! Wikipedia tells me this small town is home to less than three hundred people, a quarter of whom live below the poverty line. There’s not a whole lot else I could find about it beyond the fact that in our world, there’s only one restaurant in town, and it’s not vegan :P

Anyway. This is a very pink house.

The very pink house is called Mountain Slumber Boarding House. Two black mountains and a pair of pines.

Tasha Banes drives a smart car, and the idea that she is an anti-John Winchester just went from “plausible reading of the subtext” to “so parallel that Quinn Mallory is trapped inside the concept”

(I don’t care that this reference barely makes sense and is about 20 years late to be topical. I’m still firmly in the parallel worlds are gonna factor into the finale camp, and I’m going to make as many references to Sliders as I possibly can)

But really, Tasha is the anti-John. 1. Had kids with a hunter, but knew about the supernatural beforehand 2. Raised her kids in the life as a single parent but didn’t traumatize them or force them to fit into a mould 3. Openminded, sociable, warm

IDK man I think if I sat here and listed all the things that make her an obvious anti-John I’d be here all day. There’s a lot, is my point.

Anyway.

This rude-ass woman in the foyer needs to be less awful

“I could cleanse your aura, if you like. Looks a little… muddy.” *applause*

Andy the hotel clerk is the cute kind of awkward so natch he’s gonna die :(

Tasha has Alicia and Max as her phone background :’)

Glowy purple eyes! I think the last time we saw purple eyes was Calliope in 10x05

I absolutely adore the way this sequence was shot. It’s beautiful. I don’t know how much of Tasha’s tracking spell was Yockey or how much was Speight, but the result is a gorgeous sequence that is among my favorite visuals this show has ever done. Just… the way the pendant pulls her through the house and outside… I love it.

Also, the pendant is giving me Chuck and the Samulet thoughts, but that is possibly (probably) just me

Anyone reminded of Scarecrow all of a sudden?

OH SHIT

EVEN THOUGH I ALREADY WATCHED THIS EPISODE, TASHA GETTING STABBED STILL SHOCKED THE HELL OUT OF ME

UGH I’M SO SORRY YOU WONDERFUL LADY WE HARDLY KNEW YE

*deep breath* okay cold open over, lets go

SHIT SHIT ABORT MISSION CLOSE UP OF HANDS

Dean is in prayer pose right now and I need to take a moment

He might be talking to Sam out loud, but everything about the way this shot is framed, especially while paired with the topic he’s focused on, says that he’s praying in Cas’ direction right now

“Okay, so last night…”

:’(((

“That Super-Mario power up crap? That wasn’t Cas.” :((((((((

So there’s a tweet going around at the moment that summarizes the season as Sam being sensible and Dean worrying about Cas, and this scene is the epitome of that. While Dean frets and paces and chews on his fingernails in the background, we see Sam thoughtful in the foreground.

“Cas said that he had faith in Lucifer Junior? What the hell is that supposed to mean?” :((((

“Up until now, if Cas messed up—if he did something wrong but he thought it was for the right reasons, I got it. Right? But last night? When I looked at him? I did not recognize the guy staring back at me.”

Dean is on the verge of tears. This is fine. I’m fine.

But seriously though, that quote ^ is SO MUCH, and not just because Dean is acknowledging their ridiculous staring by saying that it wasn’t the same—though that is also A Lot. He’s saying that he understood that Cas has always had their best interests at heart. Ugh, he loves him so much.

Sam whipping out the broken colt with a distinct air of “oh look, a distraction!” is one more thing to add to the Sam:head vs. Dean:heart pile

The most supernatural thing about this show is how long the batteries last in their spare phones

BANEEEESSSS god they’re both so attractive how dare

Alicia’s repeated use of “we” when the truth is “I” is certainly interesting… >_>

Dean rolling his eyes at Sam agreeing to the hunt is everything

“What the hell, man? What about Cas?”

YEAH, SAM. WHAT ABOUT CAS.

I wonder if Jody’s APB on Cas & Kelly is the reason she’s going to pop up somewhere in the final two episodes? She might be the connection somehow.

(also, you’d better believe that my Jam-shipper brain is filling in the gaps here, because Dean sure as hell didn’t call her)

(sunglasses emoji)

“Their mom’s on a hunting trip, and hasn’t been home in a week.”

OKAY SO REMEMBER WHAT I WAS SAYING ABOUT TASHA BEING THE ANTI-JOHN????

*GESTURES WILDLY*

If Dean’s sad reluctant face in this moment wasn’t literally shattering my heart, I’d probably have thoughts about it. But it is, so I can only say D: D: D: D: D:

Just look at him:

That’s a man thinking “keep it together, keep it together, keep it together” on repeat ad infinitum

WELP OUT COMES THE CELL PHONE

I’M ALREADY UPSET

YIKES THOSE SCREWS IN SHIFTER!MARY’S CHEST ARE RIDIC

Ketch is a goddamn creep and I really look forward to his death

“Mom—hey, I just wanted to let you know that um, me and Sam were, um… we’re heading out on a case with those witch twins, Max and Alicia. Um… I’ll text you the info. But, uh… I know the Brits have got you runnin’ non-stop, so if you can help out, that’d be great. Um… and even if you can’t swing by, can you call me back? Just, some stuff goin’ down, it’s… kinda got me spun out. Be good to talk to you.”

I’m speechless.

I am entirely without speech.

That. Was. HUGE.

Dean doesn’t even want to go on this hunt—he clearly thought it was a non-event, a waste of time just like Max seems to think—and it’s obvious from the way he’s constantly saying “um” and “uh” through the first part that he’s stalling before he gets to the real reason he called. He doesn’t want Mary’s help with the hunt. He wants to talk to his mom. He’s reaching out for EMOTIONAL HELP. Because “some stuff goin’ down” has kinda got him “spun out.”

THE STUFF GOING DOWN IS CAS BEING SOCKPUPPETED BY LUCIFER JUNIOR

HE WANTS TO TALK TO MARY ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON WITH CAS, NOT BECAUSE HE THINKS SHE’LL HAVE A SOLUTION, BUT BECAUSE HE’S HURTING AND NEEDS TO VENT AND SAM ISN’T REACTING THE SAME WAY HE IS, AND HE FEELS ALONE IN HIS WORRY AND HIS FEAR AND EVEN THOUGH SAM OBVIOUSLY CARES ABOUT CAS TOO IT’S JUST NOT THE SAME.

MAN

THIS

SEASON

AND

THE

CHARACTER

GROWTH

Sincerely, season twelve has been one of my favorite seasons of the entire series at this point, and that’s saying something. They told us at the beginning that it was going to be all about character growth and relationships, so I should have been prepared, but I really wasn’t. This has been amazing.

Okay, back to Ketch and shifter!Mary

Oh, hey! He’s still a huge creep. And actual Mary looks super creeped out.

Ketch calling the shifter “it” instead of “he”

“That eye of yours twitches when you lie.” “My eye twitches all the time.”

HMMMMMMMMM

He smacked the face right off of that shifter, yikes

NYOOOM

Ooh, pretty mountains

“I got the bartender’s phone number.” Yeahhh, Max, get it.

Dean seems impressed with his bartender-number-getting-skills

“Dean… that car is still major.”

(quietly headcanons that Dean showed off the Impala to Max in 12x06 because he likes to impress cute boys with his shiny car)

Also:

Sam is like “lmao good luck with that, Max.”

But then Dean’s all “you want the tour?” and Sam’s face gets even better:

…Dean showing Max the trunk. Showing off his big guns.

“Is that a grenade launcher?” For fucks sake

*stares into the camera*

*mutters something about grenadebaiting*

Alicia: “Magic is definitely their thing, y’know?”

Sam: “Yeah. When I was growing up, Dean and my dad had the same thing with hunting. That bond.” Sam, babe……… you still don’t see what was going on, and my heart aches.

“Mary’s a great hunter… she doesn’t seem like much of a hugger.”

I’d like to take this moment to point out Sam’s adorable dimples

*weird dude emerges from storm cellar*

Max: “Not weird… at all…”

lmao I watched this episode the first time with @studio84a and she literally said the same thing right before Max did. Clearly the correct reaction.

Sam’s awkward wave is everything

UH OH THAT’S NOT MOM

“Why didn’t you call us? I mean, we called—“ *Max clears his throat* “I called and texted a lot.”

That we-i distinction, y’all. That’s been coming up a bit.

YIKES, NOT-TASHA

That busted finger is grosssss

(kudos SFX team)

Dean pretending he doesn’t like wine, then immediately pouring all of Sam’s glass into his own the second Sam gets up to leave.

Ketch is so thirsty lmao

“I remember us agreeing that was a one time thing.” You tell him, Mary

“Anyone who tells you that torture is never the answer—they haven’t been under the knife.”

Ketch, you’re fucked up, dude

Dean wants to talk to his mom so badly ;-;

[a note: at this point in my rewatch i paused to get a snack, got distracted by something shiny, and forgot to meta for five months. whoops.]

Did I mention previously that Tasha Banes is BEAUTIFUL? Because wow, congrats on your face

I adore Max trying to talk Alicia into lending him the jeep so he can go hook up with that bartender. Listen to that fake casual “sooooo”

“And your mother?” “That’s complicated.” “Yeah, family’s always complicated.”

pffft lady you don’t know the half of it :P

The whole “parents are just people” thing has come up a couple of times this season

“…and even if you can’t swing by, can you call me back? Just, some stuff goin’ down, it’s… kinda got me spun out. Be good to talk to you.”

I still can’t believe they made us hear that twice in the episode I’m DYING over it all over again, because DEAN WANTS TO TALK ABOUT HIS FEELINGS AND IT’S EVERYTHING

Mary has three emails from Dean, and the one he sent the previous day is titled JUST CHECKING IN, unlike the rest of them from him & the one from Sam that are all case related.

Basically, I would bet ACTUAL MONEY that he emailed her something along the lines of what he said in the voicemail. Because he left that message the previous night, too. Ugh ugh my heart.

Ketch you slimy fucker, sending fake emails from Mick’s account after you killed him to death >:(

Dean sitting there with the Banes and enjoying spending time with a normal family. And then not wanting to bother them with the development in the case because they’re all happy… This is hurting me in so many ways.

…oh no

I’d forgotten about what was in the cellar

:( Poor Tasha

OH NO MAX

(but like… why are none of you rushing upstairs immediately to get Alicia away from fake!Tasha though??? seriously guys wyd??)

RUN MARY RUN

These crusty ass BMoL fuckers with their futuristic murder wall >:( stay away from all of our hunter friends, you pack of dickwaffles

It still tickles me that Ketch heard Dean call him “low rent Christian Bale.”

“A werewolf shot him in the head?” “…it’s not impossible.”

Anyone else immediately think of this?

KICK HIS ENTIRE ASS, MARY

BRASS KNUCKLES TO THE JEWELS //makes fight sounds

Max’s reveal spell is so cooooool

[chanting] t w i g p e o p le t w i g p e o p le t w i g p e o p le

This woman is such a creep jfc

Poor adorable lobby guy :(

I really love Speight’s direction in this. Also the editing is excellent.

Aliciaaaaa :((((

This is the worst day for the Banes family ugh ughhhhhhh

“We do terrible things all the time to save each other. I mean, that’s what you do for family. Who am I to stop him?” :(((((((

This is such an upsetting episode ending. I both hope we see Max and twig!Alicia again and dread it :(

Dean’s half smile when Mary says “I love you” :3

ALL THE OTHER THINGS

Passed Bechdel-Wallace!

I’m going to be upset about Max and Alicia and Tasha for a long damn time.

Someday when I have time, I’m going to watch this episode alongside Scarecrow because I feel like there’s some connections to be made.

#cass says things #season twelve scorecard #getting these last few done real quick #now that there's a week until s13 #i'm not a huge fan of writing these so long after the episode aired and the season was over #because half the fun is catching little hints of foreshadowing and stuff #and little meta things #but by now most things have already been talked to death #but hopefully there's still something new-ish in here #12x20 Twigs & Twine & Tasha Banes #spn s12 #fandom: supernatural

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s-cornelius · 6 years

Text

13x01-13x05 Scorecards!

13x01 Lost and Found: A

13x02 The Rising Son: A-

13x03 Patience: A

13x04 The Big Empty: A

13x05 Advanced Thanatology: A+

I’m really loving the start of this season. I was looking back at previous season’s scorecards (and thinking about the ways s8 and s9 started), and there have been some rocky starts lately. I think that’s because in some respects the first three episodes have been treated has a three-parter (i.e. s10 with demon!Dean) or feel like they have set up everything that going to happen in the season, and therefore need to cram in a lot of plotlines and characters (see s9 and s11). But the first three episodes of this season don’t feel rushed or like they’re taking too much plot on at all. The first two episodes probably have the most going on (catching us up with Mary and Lucifer in the alternate universe after s12′s finale), but those episodes are only juggling two to three plotlines (depending on how you count Asmodeus), rather than 4+ as seen in other seasons. It’s tidier, and it lets character moments breathe.

Speaking of character moments, there were a lot of really nice ones. Sam and Jack’s bonding is really sweet, Jack trying to figure himself out is interesting, Dean’s grief and anger is heart wrenching, Castiel’s determination in getting out of the Empty is fun to watch, and his joy upon returning to earth made me tear up a little. That brings my cry count for this season to two, by the way.

And I think that’s why s12, despite all of its early potential, fell flat in the stretch toward the end. Where were the interesting character interactions? Where were the moments that would have made me invested in the stories of Mick and the BMoL, Lucifer and Crowley, and even Mary to a certain extent? If I’m not interested in the characters, then even world-ending stakes do not matter, because I don’t care if these characters live or die.

Example: The second half of s12 had some serious stakes--keep Lucifer’s baby away from him because his son will be so powerful he will fuck up the world. Here are the problems with this: a) the Winchesters didn’t know that Lucifer was out of the cage for most of that time, so the stakes for them were different than for every other character, b) since it was so impersonal, it was basically “the Winchesters need to stop the bad thing” and since I’ve watched this show for many years, I know that they will stop the bad thing, so there is no narrative tension (and they were never gonna kill a pregnant woman/baby on network television), and c) the Winchesters were also so caught up in the BMoL drama that it divided their attention and so the stakes for nephilim plot never felt as serious as I think they were meant to feel.

So, what’s the takeaway? Compelling drama with real stakes stems from character-driven conflict. And s13 is doing this, which is great. Sam and Dean have a legitimate conflict about what to do with Jack (who brings into the fray his own issues, etc.) and both approach the problem from a POV that makes sense based on past characterization and (in Dean’s case) recent events. And so there is the personal-drama-level stakes: will Dean kill this kid, who is just trying to figure out who he is? As well as the macro-potentially-world-ending stakes: this kid is so powerful that if his power is harnessed by someone evil, i.e Asmodeus or Lucifer, real bad shit could happen.

And all this plays out over multiple episodes, interwoven with stories about power and identity (13x03 Patience), family trauma (13x04 The Big Empty) and grieving (13x04 The Big Empty and 13x05 Advanced Thanatology).

So, I only hope things continue apace, because this is really spectacular so far.

Individual scorecards under the cut!!

13x01 Lost and Found

(Written by: Andrew Dabb, Directed by: Phil Sgriccia)

THE BAD:

“Brood mare” :/ :/ :/

THE GOOD:

Alexander Calver looks a whole lot like a young Misha, and acts like s4!Cas. (It’s almost like this is a good formula …)

Sheriff Barker is gr9!

“My father is Castiel” <3<3<3

Interesting shot with Jack on a bench and Dean in profile (call back to s4 with Cas?)

Dean’s prayer is pretty heartbreaking :(

The moment that broke me: when Dean had to stop to take a moment to collect himself

The music was really good in this episode

SCORE: A

STRAY THOUGHTS: A really solid start to the season. I like Jack a lot, and I hope he doesn’t turn evil!!

13x02 The Rising Son

(Written by: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming, Directed by: Thomas J. Wright)

THE BAD:

The “Make Hell Great Again” joke was funny the first time; this time, not so much

So, Kentucky Fried Asmodeus??

Every conversation takes too many words

Too much time spent in the alternate universe (my general problem whenever there is an alternate universe in any show)

THE GOOD:

Has anyone written about how Jack opens the Bible to the Song of Solomon? The most romantic and also gayest part of the Bible?

Jack learning how to eat from Dean is hilarious

Even Jack’s little smiles are like Cas’

A lot could be made of Jack’s “I’m good.”

Sam and Jack bonding is good

The shot with the dead demon in the foreground and Michael and Lucifer fighting in the background is very very good

SCORE: A- STRAY THOUGHTS: The Hell/Lucifer storyline is still bogging everything down, just like last season. The Jack story was probably an A, but the Hell story is definitely a B, so I’m splitting the difference for the score.

13x03 Patience

(Written by: Robert Berens, Directed by: Robert Singer)

THE BAD:

Filming Jack in the shadows wasn’t a bad idea, but I can’t see him even on my fancy TV :/ It’s too dark!

The zooms are a bit much when Dean and Sam are arguing

THE GOOD:

Missouri! Jody! <3<3<3

I love Patience and her friend Bronson(?)

I’m glad Patience’s dad didn’t die (I hope he doesn’t die later) and I’m glad Jody is there to balance out Dean’s grieving nihilism

And Cas!

SCORE: A STRAY THOUGHTS: I know a lot of people were upset that Missouri died, but I think it was more of a sacrifice for/passing the torch to Patience. It wasn’t a death for shock value, horror porn, manpain, etc. It was a death for Patience’s story.

13x04 The Big Empty

(Written by: Meredith Glynn, Directed by: John Badham)

THE BAD:

Aren’t they in the middle of trying to find the bad guy? Seems like a bad time for Jack to get therapy.

Why shift into the Dean suit to burst into the room, and then immediately shift again?? That doesn’t make any sense...

THE GOOD:

Jack��s sporting the s9!Cas look

Empty!Cas is great

Even tho the timing of Jack’s talk with the shifter mom is weird, that moment was so good. So so good.

“I don’t believe in a damn thing” then cut to Cas waking up is damn good

SCORE: A

STRAY THOUGHTS: In this episode and the last (13x03), the bad guys were creepy white dude attacking black women.

13x05 Advanced Thanatology

(Written by: Steve Yockey, Directed by: John F. Showalter)

THE BAD:

I got nothing

THE GOOD:

This is a scary-ass episode

MMMmmm Billie <3

I really like the symbolism and poetry of the personification of death urging a suicidal grief-stricken Dean to live

Also Dean “I don’t believe in anything” in 13x04 to driving down a road with a neon glowing cross to Castiel, someone who he’s always had faith in

SCORE: A+

#spn #meta saloon #spn meta #adjacent #13x01 #13x02 #13x03 #13x04 #13x05 #s13 scorecard

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tinkdw · 7 years

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it says phil sgriccia is directing and dabb is writing 13x01. do you think we are in good hands for grieving dean? it seems like sgriccia has directed some good dean/cas stuff. mommy dearest, meet the new boss, the aaron scene, fan fiction, executioners song/ boyfriend deleted scene, hell's angel, the awkward "you're our brother" in 11x23, maybe a few i missed.. i just really need them to get it right lol.

same anon about directors. john badham is directing 13x04. he directed some such as into the mystic, the vessel, and regarding dean. that makes me feel good about the new version of cas, since he had to direct a “new” version of dean. fun fact he also directed saturday night fever lol.

Tbh I feel like we are in such good hands overall!My tentative speculation is:

1. Lost & Found Writer: Andrew Dabb Director: Phil Sgriccia - Brilliant for starting the season, setting the themes etc.

2. The Rising Sun Writer: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming Director: Thomas Wright- Brilliant for repressed / regressed facade Dean, hopefully sleeping with (multiple) waitresses and drinking etc and clearly showing it as a coping mechanism. Standard BL fare but for a blatant subversion REASON now.

3. Patience Writer: Robert Berens Director: Robert Singer - Berens writes GREAT character exposition and in depth analysis, this coupled with psychics gets me SO excited for this episode I can’t even. I am overwhelmed with 13x03 speculation and excitement!!!

4. The Big Empty Writer: Meredith Glynn Director: John Badham - Glynn showed her capability with 12x11 and I keep saying Cas’ arc will mirror and expand on Dean in 12x11, imo the memory and who we are foreshadowing from s12 will be all over Cas’ arc in s13 so let’s see :)

5. AdvancedThanatology Writer: Steve Yockey Director: TBA - I sincerely HOPE tho I don’t expect but I HOPE that this is our bi!dean exposition exposed… the one before Cas comes back so it’s separate… Yockey being queer himself gives me hope and I feel who better o write it and why else is he onboard at this point…

6. Tombstone Writer: Davy Perez Director: TBA - Not sure but I’m sure will be great. Perez has shown he knows the characters well. I would be more excited for Berens to handle Cas’ return but let’s see :)

7. War of the Worlds Writer: Brad Buckner and Eugenie Rossyh Director: TBA.- Ehhh I just hope this is a boring mytharc / lucifer episode. Keep them away from the boys character growth.

8. The Scorpion and The Frog Writer: Andrew Dabb Director: TBA. - Should be amazing and probably some kind of Jack going bad lead up or happening.

9. The Bad Place Writer: Robert Berens Director: TBA. - Berens? Exposition behind the reasons for Jack going bad ans blood / found family themes etc

10. Wayward Sisters. Writer: Robert Berens and Andrew Dabb- Super excited for this :) :) :)

#season 13 speculation #early season 13

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drsilverfish · 7 years

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Drsilverfish’s S12 Retrospective Meta Masterpost...

Now that S12 has wrapped, I thought I’d collect all my meta of the season into a masterpost. This is actually my favourite season since S8, despite the odd crushing mis-step (<cough> Eileen’s death <cough>).

Thank you to everyone I follow and to everyone who follows me and to all the rest of you in this particular, and generally delightful, corner of the Tumblr SPN fandom. Watchng collectively here, with you, immeasurably increases my enjoyment of the show. In fact, watching the episodes is my second favourite part. Taking part in all the meta, discussions and talented gifs and fan-art is my favourite.

Happy Hellatus!

1) The Ghosts of Parents and Children Past: 12x03:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/152441273114/the-ghosts-of-parents-and-children-past-12x03

2) Nightmares Then and Now: 12x04 and 1x14:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/152745863984/nightmares-then-and-now-12x04-and-1x14

3) Mr. Ketch:- Who’s The Daddy?:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/152776532214/mr-ketch-whos-the-daddy

4) Dean and Bacon (this is part of a multi-authored post):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/152908104624/bakasara-profound-pond-dammit-cas-he-was

5) Hitler As a John Mirror (12x05):

http://drsilver fish.tumblr.com/post/153041573589/hitler-as-a-john-mirror-spn-12x05

6) The One You’ve Been Waiting For (12x05) (This version contains an excellent addition by @mittensmorgul )

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/153135567409/the-one-youve-been-waiting-for-12x05-review

7) Jilted Lover Dean (12x06 Rock Never Dies)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/153946674679/jilted-lover-dean

7b) First Blood (12x09 Review)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/156506559829/first-blood-12x09-review

8) Hold the Phone! Steve Yockey Goes Meta with Lily Sunder (12x10) (This version contains a great addition by @postmodernmulticoloredcloak ):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/156772534629/hold-the-phone-steve-yockey-goes-meta-with-lily

9) Regarding Dean, Regarding Alice (12x11)

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/157082194059/regarding-dean-regarding-alice

10) The Colt and a Choice Further Down the Cross-roads?:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/157397608224/the-colt-and-a-choice-further-down-the-crossroads

11) Time and POV in Stuck in the Middle With You (12x12):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/157412287189/time-and-pov-in-stuck-in-the-middle-with-you

12) Holy and Unholy Families in 12x12 Stuck in the Middle With You (plus, added bonus, Cas “goes fishing” and gets stuck in the middle with Dean’s “weapon”) (This version contains a great addition by @impostoradult ):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/157456050444/holy-and-unholy-families-in-12x12-stuck-in-the

13) Mr. Ketch’s Seduction of Dean in 12x14:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/157957259114/mr-ketchs-seduction-of-dean-in-12x14

14) Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell (12x15):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/158246839184/somewhere-between-heaven-and-hell

15) John Winchester’s Ghost and the Haunting of S12 Cont:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/158388550099/john-winchesters-ghost-and-the-haunting-of-s12

16) Mr. Ketch’s Tattoo (this is part of a multi-author discussion of Ketch):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/158811766909/re-post-spn-scoutthoughts-am-i-the-only-one-who

17) Werewolf My Beloved (12x16):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/159130804019/werewolf-my-beloved-12x16

18) Mick as a Castiel Parallel (12x17):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/159318090949/mick-as-a-castiel-parallel-in-12x17

19) Moloch Winchester (12x18):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/159581042479/moloch-winchester-12x18

20) Agents Stark and Martell (12x18):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/159601144729/agents-stark-and-martell-12x1

21) The Sheep and the Goats (12x18):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160101364854/the-future-the-book-of-revelations-and-12x19

22) What’s in the Mix with a Mix-Tape (12x19)?

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160090146189/whats-in-the-mix-with-a-mix-tape-12x19

23) The Future: The Book of Revelations and 12x19:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160101364854/the-future-the-book-of-revelations-and-12x19

24) Alicia Bane as a Mary and Cas Mirror (12x20) (this is part of a multi-author discussion):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160351242179/what-is-alicia-now

25) Doing Violence to Charlie Bradbury and Eileen Leahy (12x21):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160619210869/doing-violence-to-charlie-bradbury-and-eileen

26) It Should Have Been Garth (12x21):

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160712378374/it-should-have-been-garth

27) All Along the Watchtower: 12x23 (and 12x22) and Circular Narrative Structure:

http://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/160876601179/all-along-the-watchtower-12x23-and-12x22-and

#Supernatural #SPN meta #Meta #S12 meta masterpost #Meta Masterpost

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mittensmorgul · 7 years

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(1) Did you just say Robbie Thompson created Eileen??? Is that why Eileen reminds me of Charlie!?? (2) I don't think Crowley is dumb in 12x17. I mean yeah, he was naive in 12x13, but I think in 12x17 Buckleming were trying to make Lucifer look smart instead, and when you have someone in chains and suffering from torture, that's not easy to write. I know you don't care about Luci, sorry to bring this up. (3) Who is your favorite S12 writer?

1) YES! Robbie created her (and Mildred) for 11.11 Into The Mystic, the banshee episode. (sorry I had major flails over that one, and wrote long meta about Patsy Cline and what that said about Mildred, and therefore what that meant about Dean; sunsets; what Eileen might mean for Sam and the parallels between their meeting and Dean meeting Cas… I mean it felt like a HUGE episode in a lot of subtextual respects.) I was THRILLED last week when we learned she would be in this episode, and also SUPER WARY because of what they did to Charlie. But they actually handled this really well. (plus SHE MADE SAM SMILE MULTIPLE TIMES. SHE CAN STAY. :P)

2) ohmygosh, I might not care about Lucifer’s story, but I’m always down for talking about it. I know that doesn’t make any sense. It was just dull in the show, and really he’s not adding anything interesting to the story except in vague “tidy up loose ends” ways. He is a huge loose end. I just kinda want to set fire to him already and move on. :P

But you’re right. I mean, Davy Perez managed to plant some pretty big seeds of doubt that Lucifer would have any sort of control in this situation. The problem for me is that I just don’t care enough about Lucifer to even make Crowley’s game with him even interesting. Like, we have no idea what Crowley’s ultimate motivations are for not having put Luci back in the cage in the first place, and dragging this out over SO MANY EPISODES without actually advancing the plot in any meaningful way is just… it feels like a pointless waste of screen time right now.

We could’ve been having interesting scenes with Rowena, we could’ve been focusing more on Mary, we could’ve had another episode or two with Jody or Alex or Donna… and instead we’re watching this pointless back and forth between Crowley and Lucifer (and also getting this really ick-worthy nephilim thing that just makes my skin crawl). And nothing is happening with Lucifer. At least nothing that merits the quantity of time he’s been occupying our screens.

Yeah, it’s hard to write someone having the upper hand when they’re in chains… but why was he even IN chains? I think Crowley’s little speech would’ve been FAR more effective if Lucifer hadn’t been in the chains. He’d told Luci in 12.15 (and then proved it) that he didn’t even need the chains to restrain him. It would’ve been a far more effective display of power to have Luci OUT of the chains. Unless they were trying to prove that Crowley was still “10 steps ahead” and therefore that entire SCENE was a show of some sort for the rest of the demons… but to what purpose? All we’re seeing is this long, drawn out power play between them… I get that Crowley may be trying to reunify his control of Hell after Lucifer destabilized things in s11, but sheesh. Locking him back in the cage would’ve had the same effect. WHY ARE WE HAVING TO WATCH THIS BS NOW?! At least give us a reason that makes sense. But no…

I mean, the fact we don’t know if it’s hubris for Crowley to believe he has the upper hand, when the other half of the storyline is focusing on the MoL who we CLEARLY see are being written as either ignorant or incompetent (aside from Ketch and this creepy new Dr. Hess), or inflexibly believing they know better when everything else in the narrative just SCREAMS the fact that they are oh so wrong, that they are the monsters, that they are evil… And that in large part it’s their unwillingness to see the TRUTH of the situation here (like Mick did in the end, which cost him his life, that their “Code” was wrong and their facts were wrong, and their conclusions were wrong…). So, which side of this equation does this put Crowley on, if his attempt to control Lucifer is being mirrored to the MoL vs Hunters thing? Is it an “old ways vs new ways” parallel? Is it about “TFW and their allies vs inflexible evil?” Because I can’t see even that narrative relevance to the larger plot.

It’s like a thematically different story altogether. If they wanted to continue telling his story, at least they could make it clearly relevant to everything else they’re doing this season, because right now, it just feels jarringly like the wrong story. Like it’s just filler, or tacked on as an afterthought. Because it doesn’t connect up with anything else thematically.

3) Who is my favorite s12 writer? Everyone else. I think they’ve all had some great episodes so far this season. Davy Perez, Steve Yockey, Meredith Glynn, and of course Bobo and Dabb. And next week we’ll see the first solo effort by John Bring, who co-wrote 11.15 with Dabb last year (aka, the wrestling episode). I’m really looking forward to it. :D

As for my favorite episodes, I’m going with the midseason triptych for now (10, 11, and 12), one each by the three new writers.

#spn s12 speculation #spn 12.17 #come on eileen #spn 12.11 #ain't it funny how the thing i disliked most ends up getting the most words?#i'm the sort of person who feels the need to justify why i don't like a thing that i'm being told i should like #but there's really valid story structure level complaints to be made #and i like explaining myself in ridiculous detail even if i don't like lucifer or his idiotic storyline :P #kajuned

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