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#rwby critique
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So multiple times throughout the commentary the writers talk about cutting “unimportant” things in the episodes to ensure only the “important” things stayed…. Like WBY happily hugging Jaune instead of being worried about Ruby, or Jaune seeing Alyx in the midst. It just is so strange to me that a volume that’s supposed to be about team R/WBY focuses so much in Jaune especially when Ruby’s life is in danger and everyone should be worried about her.
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What do you think the mistakes with White Fang story were?
The biggest mistake was not having that plotline at all beyond lipservice.
I think the "no no, any sort of actual resistance instantly makes you bad guys" is such a flawed and stupid position for a show to take.
The show's failure is highlighting WF motivations and WHY would anyone feasibly go down that route - HOW do Mistral, Atlas, etc treat Faunus or even Vale.
JFK once said - "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
If he existed in MilesWBY the quote would be "Only peaceful revolution is possible and anything else is evil"
We never see WHAT the Faunus have to deal with or how the society changed, (and if it did) since the Great War. We never see HOW Blake becomes the person she is (and if anything, have her regress by making her a runaway princess of tropic paradise)
The result is honestly quite racist - the show silently suggests (through the combined force of Blake's awful monologue and how Ilia's storyline ends) that the problem with The Faunus is their own "destructive" tendencies and their "unwillingness" to compromise or "wait for things to get better by being model minorities" - if only they waited a bit longer all the bigots would recognize how wrong they were!
With what the show presents, it's literally impossible to delve into the intricacies of the nature of extremism or why Adam's approach is flawed - because the show posits that the only right way forward is via complete no-exceptions peaceful resistance of… being nice and docile even when threatened with death?
We are straight up EXPECTED to see Ilia beating up bigots who laughed at people dying in the mines as BAD - the narrative EXPECTS the viewer to be horrified at her revelation rather than feel catharsis for her doing the right thing. The writing wants us to "feel like Blake" by being horrified at how violent and unhinged her friend is while completely ignoring the context - because any resistance beyond non-violent slogans is instantly a slippery slope into blowing up schools.
And where does that argument end up? In Twitter posts about how all those people shot by the cops "deserved" it by "doing something to aggravate them" - that's where.
Adam IS abusive, and Adam IS in the wrong and it's pretty clear that he has long since been addicted to power, BUT there's no possibility to even begin discussing what's right or wrong with the way the show handles the WF plotline as a whole.
We don't know what position Blake can take nor what position she had on the matter before because we don't get a sense of how WF could function beyond the two completely absurd strawman extremes of whatever sunken place nonsense Ghira's WF was in and whatever slippery slope cult-like strawman his successor created (nor how that progression happened).
What is his "vision"? What does he hope to achieve? How did he, according to Blake, "change"? We know nothing about White Fang beyond "Ghira's Non-Resistance White Man's Strawman of MLK" WF being good and his successor's WF being a slippery slope argument.
No wonder the show defaults to the most rudimentary aspect of Adam's flaws in the final confrontation, refusing to give both Yang and Blake a chance to refute him thematically while also refusing to give them proper character arcs that would lead to that confrontation - because the narrative never thought things through beyond that.
The show jumps around random and nonsensical gods subplots and religious imagery being all daring about what needs to change, but the moment actual themes of discrimination and human nature are at play, the narrative instantly becomes just so in love with status quo.
The WF began as "angry redshirts to be beaten up" and when the show decided to move on to all the "exciting"(it's really not) Brother Gods nonsense, the subplot got thrown away in the most racist way possible.
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tokufan400 · 3 months
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Random thought: I think Bumblee and Starco mirror each other in a way
Bumblee as a ship was to subtle. When they started to become more cannon, it felt like getting whiplash with how in your face it was when they stopped being subtle. Starco on the other hand, was so heavy handed and in your face that it falls into the stereotypical 'will they won't they' couple that only got together when the show was almost over. Neither ship felt balanced in how they where built up. (Please keep in mind that this is my opinion)
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armed-and-rwby · 11 months
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So, and I know this is kind of bad timing in June, but I can't deny any longer than Yang's character was seriously compromised after V5
This isn't really a scripted thing and I've not written analysis in a while, so forgive the loose formatting here, just something I needed to get out.
I think the overall issues can apply to more of the MCs than Yang, which I'll bring up later, but RWBY has an unfortunate tendency of resolving character arcs without much overlap with the plot, and Yang definitely gets it worse than most (and she's my favourite).
Back in V5, Yang was exploding with directions for her character and I think the writers worked hard to touch on all of them, from her recovery, to her growing mistrust of authority, to her issues with her mom, to her reconnecting with her team (and of course the deeper angst with Blake in that), but resolution for all of these largely fell short IMO. The last time she's even talked about the scheming of Oz was in V6 when she called him a bastard, Raven has never been mentioned or some up since V5, and I don't think she's even spoken to Weiss since their heart to heart in V5 outside of plot functional dialogue. The same can be said on her relationship with her sister, which, beyond her sacrifice in V8 and an unresolved conversation earlier in the volume about Salem and their mom, also haven't actually interacted with each other. The only thing really addressed was her lost arm, which was an extension of Bumblebey and closed off when they killed Adam in V6, a great fight with very little to do with the actual plot.
In V7 and 8, she's a complete third wheel, she talks with Robyn and fights the Ops in 7, and doesn't even get a fight in V8. Weiss certainly got it almost as bad, she was a bit more involved, but still not much given how this is her kingdom and her family that was so central to the plot. It's a condition of a bloated cast, which they've addressed a couple times, such as the start of V6 and all of V9 (though with their various guides, the girls don't make a lot of relevant decisions on the flow of that story either). It really did suck that we got to see Ruby's suicide through Yang's eyes, only for us to not see any of their reactions, and even when they see her it's all pretty surface level stuff (Yang even just repeats what Weiss tells her about Ruby).
My favourite scene in the whole show was her confronting her mom, I thought that was such a perfect direction for her character, tying together both her conviction to her family with her backstory of her mom to drive her arc forward in some unique ways, only to be sidelined in following chapters as her ship left port. And while this post isn't here to bash Bumblebey, I guess there's a bit of a warning that, since that was almost all of her drama and driving force for the last 4 volumes, with it canonized, I worry she'll only drift further away from the plot and her own unique character moments.
Wish I had some gifs or something to break up these paragraphs, but I'm just kind of vomiting out all these nagging issues that've been building up these last few years. Really does hurt to love a character like that and not see them utilized in the show
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ziggyplayedguitar96 · 10 months
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Did Yang remove some of her ribs???
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derangedspacefreakk · 2 years
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I wanna ask, what’s some problematic or discriminatory things you find in rwby? Because I want to make sure I’m not the only one who feels this about some stuff in rwby
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dimitrippy · 1 year
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yeah yeah whatever rwby having identity crises.
what the hell is happening in vacuo? are the refugees okay? is glynda back? what about team sssn? who's the summer maiden? did mercury survive traveling that far with fucking tyrian callows? Is qrow okay? has he managed to contact tai? What is Salem going to do next?
yeah it's called RWBY but since volume one, the story has shifted to perspectives beyond the girls' and if we're getting a whole season of this... well, its pretty? I guess?
it's certainly compelling but its not the only important thing happening, story wise.
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valentinerose529 · 1 year
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does anyone else get the feeling that RWBY might have done differently if it was a monster-of-the-week fantasy school type story instead of the chosen-ones-against-the-evil-mastermind path it's going now?
From a storytelling perspective, I think the plot could have been more consistent if it had remained in the schools with a smaller-scale plot. The gang moves to other schools as part of exchange student programs, and every few seasons end in an Amity tournament at the end of the school years, signifying the move to a new story arc. As the gang settles in the other schools, they get to uncover the backstories and whatnot of various characters.
This would require smaller-scale antagonists and villain-of-the-week setups with various cronies and schemes. Perhaps if it stuck with the season one villains: Ronan and Neo, whose main motivation was nefarious profit, and Cinder, whose original characterization was someone who was so cool and awesome that she simply had to be the best at everything, including gaining all four Maiden powers. You'd likely have to scrap characters like Salem and Oscar who are 100% related to the Big Destiny Plot, but honestly I think it would have remained consistent with the original vibes of the first few seasons.
And of course, you could return to the tried and true method of using classrooms for worldbuilding exposition--how better to explain your lore than to make the characters quiz each other with flash cards about the upcoming test on the king of Vale? Weapons upkeep class (perhaps taught by Professor Qrow, wouldn't that have been better than just hearing about him and Tai being teachers offscreen?) in which Ruby gets to present her scythe and excitedly talk about all the aspects of huntress weaponry?
I think i would have liked that better than the World of Remnant segments because I didn't even learn about those until halfway through season three. And I'm not the kind of person who likes having to find information elsewhere (a la authors posting important backstory details on Twitter), so honestly I would have liked the worldbuilding to, yknow, be in the story instead of as a side piece. But that's just me.
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richardsphere · 1 year
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Rwby character-writing analasis thing.
Its really interesting to me how much RWBY as a series has changed in the post-beacon era. And while there are many differences i could write page-long essays about,  I think most of those are a story for another day. Today i want to talk about how the post S3 change in genre has negatively affected the strength of its characterwriting. (other topics might come up tangentially but wont be the focus.)
Beacon era RWBY was a verry slow, airy slice-of-life heavy show with only a bit of action sprinkled on top, like Fondant on a cake. It gave the characters plenty of time to breathe, interact and just share a chemistry together.  I’d even go so far as to say the early show was, 80 percent slice of life (at minimum), and maybe 20% action at most. Even “fight for our life” were permeated with moments of dialogue and lighthearted character-beats. (Ruby and Weiss talking out their squables mid-beowolf fight, Weiss VS Boarbatusk cutting to ruby’s little flags for example)  But it should also be noted that, With exception to Pyrrha, who the show knew had only 3 seasons to be fleshed out. Most characters were left deliberately sort-of vauge so they can be deepened out when we get to their arcs later. (certainly they were given “goals” like “find Raven” or “redeem the Fang”, but anything more specific was left out for future writers to resolve). But in a post-beacon world, the showrunners put them into a constant no-time-for-breaks pacing has prevented much of that filling in, as the show repeatedly denied them any moment for them to just “exist” (as well as the infamous stories about how any scenes that do allow characters to do so, having all chemistry surgically removed by production to “prevent romantic spoilers”.) They cut out so much of its slice-of-life moments, that all levity happens either off-screen (Yang+Blake at the disco) or in the background of “actually important” plot-beats. (Meeting Jaune’s sister taking second-seat to a critical debrief re:Ozpin-being-full-of-shit) Not to say there’s been no progress at all on filling out the blanks left behind in their early characterisation but: Ruby’s 6 seasons of constant trauma, ended on a resounding concluding note that “she was fine as-is in S1E1″, meaning nine collective seasons of character development, amounts to a great “Status quo, but now with Laser-eyes”. Yang’s raven-issues “resolved” at the fall of haven, and did so in a rather unsatisfying in the way. Because her and Raven never really explored the abandonment issues beyond a vague “i know you dont care about me, I’ve decided the feelings mutual now Portal me to my sister/Hand me the damn relic”. (which doesnt feel like a resolution, but the show tries to frame it as a “going no-contact” resolution) Blake and Weiss have both actually had their core struggles in the world removed and tranposed onto adjacent characters instead of actually resolving their established “goals” in the world at large. (Weiss no longer wants to redeem the family business, thats Willow and Whitley’s job now, Blake no longer wants to redeem the Fang, thats Ghira and Ilia’s job). and although we now know how Ren and Nora came to be together, their atlas arc only emphasises that even they still dont know who they are themselves.  Same for Ozpin, pf whom we now know how he came to be cursed, he spent so much time dormant “regaining his oldest memories” that we only know we dont know him either.  Six additional seasons of writing for these characters, and they are all (with possible exception to yang) either back at square one, or in BW’s case have somehow stumbled themselves back to square zero. The only character that’s gotten “more” fleshed out in a way that satisfies on a narrative level is Jaune. (to the point that i cant even fault elements of the fandom criticising the show for being “The Jaune Show”) And even that is only because of how well-realised Pyrrha was at time-of-death, It really says something about the drop quality in the shows post-beacon characterisation that Pyrrha is more well-written in absentia then the entirety of the shows namesake team combined. and that is just plain tragic.
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saltedsnails · 1 year
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There’s something to be said about how vitriolic the FNDM is when it comes to content creators who make content that isn’t “canon”, specifically those that rewrite the story to be “better” or those that race-swap characters.
“Better” to someone may not mean “better” to someone else, the matter is subjective - and that’s okay. Someone who wants JNPR to be the main cast instead because they are “better” in their eyes than RWBY is as valid as the opposite. Your experiences shape your beliefs and no one can change that but you. However, that does not mean you should be tearing others down if they don’t agree with you.
Yes, engage in healthy conversation. Yes, write that Fix-It fic where Blake has a growth arc about accepting that she was the most privileged Faunus in all of Menagerie! Totally go for it! Bang out that art piece of POC character you want more attention for in the RWBY-sphere!
But what some of you don’t realize is that peoples experiences are different from your own, and you attack them for it. “They” don’t fit your perfect narrative. “They” don’t 100% whole heartedly accept your show. And you know what, that’s fine. Just because they don’t completely like your show doesn’t say anything bad about you as a person. Putting your entire self-image into a piece of media is dangerously unhealthy.
As I’ve gotten older in fandom spaces, I’ve seen some of the worst come and go: Hetalia, Undertale, Voltron, BNHA, literally an entire list at my disposal. Frankly, it’s gotten even worse as time has gone on. Some of you have this all-or-nothing mentality that dictates you must enjoy every single aspect of this media or you hate it with every atom in your body if you find a single instance of something you don’t agree with.
If someone has criticism that POC/LGBT+ rep needs to be shown more in RWBY, let them. In my opinion, it’s a valid criticism. If you don’t see it that way, then that’s on you. But you shouldn’t go around ripping peoples throats out, claiming internalized bigotry in some form or another, simply because you don’t like their opinion. You lack nuance and self-realization when you do these kinds of behaviors, and honestly, need to do better. Jumping down someone’s throat polarizes the community even more, and what good has that ever done for anybody?
- 🐌
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nottoxicfr · 1 year
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Sometimes I go too hard on critiquing the RWBY soundtrack and I have to remind myself of this image. I am not immune to NAOKI
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If you knew RW/BY “didn’t make the best choices and failed” why did Yang immediately shut down Ruby recognizing that Salem getting two of the four relics was bad? Why did she compare that kind of thinking to Ironwood with the heavy implication that that was bad? Why didn’t anyone ever get to go “we failed kind of badly” and not have anyone try and hand wave it away immediately? Yes Weiss comments that but Ruby says she “did her best” which kind of minimizes the moment and like two? Episodes later Weiss Yang and Blake are all declaring that they’re huntresses and not doubting that they’re good ones or that they did a good job. Having them doubt themselves and realize they failed and vow to do better would have shown the writers recognize the girls failed and need to do better not the bullshit that was volume 9.
Even Ruby who was recognizing their failures ended the volume not on a note of vowing to improve but deciding she’s perfect and doesn’t need to change at all. These are not actions of characters or writers aware they made mistakes and need to change, this more feels like the writers pretending to realize that the mains made mistakes and are doing half assed damage control to try and convince the fans they’re aware of the mistakes and are having their mains improve and reflect or whatever.
This commentary once again is pissing me off all over again about volume 9 and the bullshit that happened in it and I am not looking forward to when the Ironwood stuff comes up because that is going to be a shitshow.
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They had to take a breather to develop characters. Hard to do with Salem's threat looming over them.
Plenty of fictional works manage to cram good ol' character development in even the most tense of the situations.
Honestly its rare to even find a fictional fantasy or contemporary world where some threat isn't looming over characters or the world isn't ending. How would character development happen then if the characters are running out of time against unbeatable threat?
By realizing that narrative progression =/= time passage.
The cool thing about fictional stories and overall fiction, is that passage of time is completely up to the control of the writer.
A character can reflect on a lifetime of achievements in split second. An entire book can take place during the exact same single hour but from different perspectives.
And again, RWBY knows this. Half the V3 transpires in literally less than a day. The whole finale takes up barely few hours. Even in the bad volumes the narrative uses the convenience of skipping ahead quite often to "get past" writing specific bits of story or to not have to deal with things.
The show already avoided dealing with so many issues, both outwardly between characters and inward, that its all boiling over. It doesn't take a filler padding dimension to actually have characters interact or emote or actually self-reflect or to make all those Chekov's guns go off.
The fact that they genuinely thought "we need to take the characters LITERALLY OUT OF THE PLOT so we can deal with this "character stuff"" is damning for writers. Like it's literally treating CHARACTERIZATION OF YOUR LEAD CAST as nothing but a sidequest.
And as for them doing this to develop characters...
But. They. Haven't????
Like AT ALL?
V9 does touch upon on some of surface-level issues, but also avoids like majority of core issues the show has never dealt with.
It starts by establishing few SHOCKING facts
"Ruby is Traumatized" - well gee, who would have known, its not like that's literally been obvious since V3. Does she reflect on Penny? LOL. On her worldview kind of falling apart? LOL. On the nature of her relationship with her team and how all of them have changed as people? NOPE ITS ALL FINE YOU ARE FLAWLESS BBY, TRAUMA AIN'T REAL. YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AT ALL.
"Blake and Yang have unresolved issues" - Yes. Again. V3. Final Scene. They have issues they have never really spoken about. Issues that were set up but then got no progression as the characters just stood around. And guess what? They don't in this volume either. The show just sidesteps it. Because the personal character issues ARE STILL IGNORED - Has Yang dealt with her aimlessness and identity search and actually processed her trauma, her conflicting feelings about her overall role, her mother, her sister and everything else that has literally piled up for years? NOPE. Has Blake actually dealt with the moral conundrum she was living? Has she figured out what exactly she wants to do? NOPE. Have they both faced abandonment issues they have? LOL.
"Jaune feels bad" - well gee, that's a new one. Its not like ~70% of the show's screentime is telling us this for some reason rather than focusing on actual lead cast. Its okay, any consequences he managed to somehow get will be undone by MAGIC.
And beyond that? Weiss? PFFT. Penny's unfortunate fridging? PFFFFFT. The actual progression of characters being the focus? PFFT. Here's bunch of new absolutely nonsensical lore that completely breaks suspension of disbelief instead. How do you like talking animals in goofy alternate dimensions run by a tree?
Its like whoever wrote this took cursory glance at like Volume 1 character moments and went "this will do"...and then the lore about magic tree gods was vomited all over the result
If anything V9 tells us they won't Develop characters.
Let me sum up what V9, intentionally or unintentionally, says:
"Self Reflection is bad. Having flaws is BAD. Good People don't have flaws nor have to deal with psychological trauma nor have to question the morality of their actions or nature of their world. A mean evil being whispering on your shoulder is all that psychological trauma is and as long as you just reaffirm that nothing you did ever affects you or defines you it will all go away, especially if you have magic god tree available to plot device you. Whatever good or bad decisions you made don't matter. People enabling your behavior, flaws and escapism is what it means to be a good friend. Even passage of time and losing years meaninglessly doesn't really affect you or change you because you are not allowed to change and will go back to normal via a plot device. Acceptance and understanding of one's emotions, thought patterns and problems, one of fundamental elements of therapy (or really any sort of healing) is BAD. You don't need coping mechanisms of any sort if you ignore issues being there! Actually exploring your relationships with others and any sorts of issues and trauma there is BAD and you should just pretend its all fine between you all. Even facing your trauma is BAD - you need to avert your eyes, listen to the voices telling you you are flawless and move on. After all there's Absolute Unchanging Truth of Right and Wrong. There's absolute definitive way to view the world and yourself. There's only the True Way To Be Yourself and the rest is Lies. Whatever trauma or issues you have stems from LIES. Who needs self awareness? Who needs change? Who needs any sort of progress if an unchanging(literally) Divine Higher Will can just tell you what you are supposed to do with your life next?
All of that stuff about facing your trauma, picking yourself back up and the necessity to keep moving forward because nobody else will do that for you and you need to persevere through hardships(You know the specific thing Monty Oum wanted to focus on)? Who needs that when Greater Divine Beings Tell Your Perfect Flawless Existences What To Do and you don't ever need to change or grow as people or face your trauma and issues"
The purpose of entire V9, the purpose of the Volume upon which the very fate of RWBY franchise's continued existence hinges is all about telling you that NOTHING IN THE SHOW MATTERS and characters won't ever change or develop and will remain exactly the same till the day they achieve their Purpose.
Its yet another volume that literally doesn't matter. Just like majority of the show past V3. Just pretending the lead characters figured out their issues offscreen is better than what V9 gives us.
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tokufan400 · 11 days
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sokumotanaka · 1 year
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Neo being able to clone herself and have the clone actually fight has been a thing since V6. Her fight with Cinder ends when Cinder shatters it and it shows the real Neo watching from the Rafters. Being able to make more then one is the new thing
But doesn't that just prove the point of my post? That it comes out of nowhere? Neo vanishes for an undisclosed amount of time and then comes back and they forget the glass shattering thing and give her Sun's clones?
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And besides that's not the problem, the problem is Semblance evolution has no rhythm or reason behind it, and they curb so much from MHA and Hunter X Hunter and still looked at both of these and said. "What if we gave her clones?"
Neo goes from being able to make physical illusions like this, and masking herself with them to summoning clones and I just don't see the correlation, like this be a good power for blake to Unlock, Flynt or Sun even- but the whole "each semblance is completely unique gets more embarrassing with time."
It just feels like they didn't really put much thought behind it besides what will illicit a reaction from people. Like how cool would it be if Neo could jump into reflective surfaces to maneuver and dodge attacks? OR do the same with her illusions and set one up and jump from one to one like Haku from Naruto?
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I don't mean to make a big deal of it but the one thing I could at least give RWBY was "at least some of them have some pretty inventive powers." But as a person who appreciates a power system and likes discussing them, they really do barely explain things, As well as the many arguments I made in that semblance post go unaddressed.
(Like do semblances evolve and you can't do what you used too or can you do your old thing in addition to the new like stand powers? These are legitimate questions that should of been addressed vol 1, yet still aren't)
Thanks for the question however.
-Sokumo
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thetrash-racoon · 2 years
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Bee shippers being delusional lmao. The only reason your mid ship got so far is because
1. Siccing the VA's
2. Other ships are old, not everyone is chronically online for their ship
Say it with me, bumbleby is NOT iconic.
Its a ship being dangled to its audience for 8 chapters now. I bet my life savings volume 9 will be the same old dangling game to the audience. And this is without studio execs hounding its writers to make them straight.
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