#redemptive suffering

[phoukanamedpookie]

PSA: The Holocaust was not a personal growth seminar.

Also: Judaism doesn't jibe with redemptive suffering.

#jumblr #holocaust #shoah #holocaust remembrance day #antisemitism #redemptive suffering

[tabernacleheart]

[The experiential truth that] there must be burning before there can be shining, that we must suffer in order to serve, is a commonplace of Christianity... there must then [inseparably] be [both] the burning and the shining, for the shining can never be unless there is first the burning. It is good to know this, for it gives a purpose to pain. [We may lament with the Psalmist:] "I cried to Thee, O Lord, and unto Thee I made supplication." "What profit is there in my blood?" What profit? If we only knew that, the pain might be borne proudly and lightly! If we knew that sooner or later we might shine, we might burn patiently. We might put sacrifice into our work willingly, [for truly,] without sacrifice it will come to nought. A great saint has said that the sentence, 'That will do,' has done more harm than any other in the English language. Work done without pain will not last, will not shine. After we have done the will of God we shall receive the promise. Let us not think that necessarily the burning and the shining [will always occur] together, but let us be sure that the shining will come at the last. Blessed are they who know it while they are burning, who can not only rejoice as they look back, but can be glad in the very moment of the intensest pressure of the pain, who can understand that when they seem to be weakest they are strongest, and who can put away from them the temptations of the Adversary. However this may be, we know that they shall shine at last. They that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament and as the stars for ever and ever.

W. Robertson Nicoll

#W. Robertson nicoll #I love this so much #this means so much to me #i can attest to this #Suffering #Sacred wounds #Redemptive Suffering #We must burn in order to shine #Remember this #reflect on this #Psalms #Christianity #this is why i love being catholic

[theshedding]

Junteenth huh?

There is no good "God" that ever has nor ever will "free" anyone from slavery. In particular, everywhere that slavery has been performed around the globe over the last 600 years, its termination has been due to MAN and her/his works and sacrifice(s) to terminate it. Furthermore in each case, (other) men have opposed that freedom at every turn and proposed new and found ever clever ways to reinstate the institution using the same people...and/or people ethnically adjacent to those groups (e.g. England, France, U.S., Spain, etc.). 

So no, "God" is not interested in anyone's abolition; and any credit to God (Euro-centric or* Afro-centric) is definitionally a false attribution" to ending slavery.

____________ 

Here in the US: 

On 6/19 in 1865, the Black enslaved in the state of Texas were notified by Union Civil War soldiers about the abolition of slavery. This was 2.5 years after the final Emancipation Proclamation which freed all enslaved Black Americans. #Juneteenth   

But Slavery continued...and in 1866, a year after the amendment was ratified, Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina began to lease out convicts for labor. This made the business of arresting black people very lucrative, thus hundreds of white men were hired by these states as police officers. 

Their primary responsibility being to search out and arrest black peoples who were in violation of ‘Black Codes’. Once arrested, these men, women & children would be leased to plantations or they would be leased to work at coal mines, or railroad companies. The owners of these businesses would pay the state for every prisoner who worked for them; prison labor. 

It’s believed that after the passing of the 13th Amendment, more than 800,000 Black people were part of that system of re-enslavement through the prison system. The Amendment declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." (Ratified in 1865) 

It says, “neither slavery nor involuntary servitude could occur except as a punishment for a crime".⁉️⁉️ Lawmakers used this phrase to make petty offenses crimes. When Blacks were found guilty of committing these crimes, they were imprisoned and then leased out...to the same businesses that lost slaves after the passing of the 13th Amendment. This system of convict labor is called peonage. 

The majority of White Southern farmers and business owners hated the 13th Amendment because it took away slave labor. As a way to appease them, the federal government turned a blind eye when southern states used this clause in the 13th Amendment to establish the Black Codes. 

@AfricanArchives

________________

Give praise where praise is due. This Juneteenth we recognize the actual sacrifice of human beings to fight a system of slave labor, dehumanization and financial exploitation throughout US history until present-day. Not someone's skewed perception of a "Good God" or "spirit"...lest we forget all lessons learned. 

 Happy Juneteenth.

#Black History #Junteenth #Black Secular #Humanist #Black Freethought #Non Religious #Black Atheist #Black Atheism #Slavery #Chattel Slavery #Atlantic Slave Trade #Theology #Redemptive Suffering #Southern #13 #13th Amendment #Slave Labor #Religion #Bible Stories #False Gospel #Pan African #Black Podcaster #Black Podcast #God #Black Society #Culture #African-American #Apostate #Juneteenth

[carnivalcarriondiscarded]

caterpillar? more like cu. more like cunty. cuntypil. um.

#you're honor he's a bastard and a capitalist but despite his faults i love him very much #so i think he should be Absolved of all crimes and allowed to stay silly w/ it #he's really The Guy of all time... #cant wait to see more of him!!! #man now i gotta go listen to his audios i need to hear his goofy ass voice again <3 #scribble salad #welcome home #welcome home puppet show #howdy pillar #blowing him a kiss and then chucking the communist manifesto at his tube head #i could radicalize him... #no actually i dont think Anyone could #he doesnt even get paid. he's out there scamming and lying for shits and gigs #i fear that he's beyond redemption but That's Okay!!! #i support howdy pillar rights AND wrongs <3 #i have faith that he'll pay through suffering The Horrors and fuck knows what else <3 #i need him to get tossed around like a ragdoll in a rabid dog's mouth #tear the bitch apart! (said so so So affectionately)

[sandushengshou]

happy belated birthday @aheartfullofjolllly!!!

#love and redemption #cdrama #cdramasource #cdramaedit #cheng yi #yuan bingyan #* #*lar #this is so many days late bb but every day i'm wishing you the best #and look! this is how we started talking :') #sifeng suffering brought us together <3 #i still remember waking up to all the dms of you watching this and screaming about sifeng lol #i love youuuuu <3

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

a redemption arc is not a sacrifice.

a redemption arc is not some grand act of selflessness.

a redemption arc is not meaningless pain and suffering.

a redemption arc is simply facing the consequences of your actions, fixing your mistakes and doing better, regardless of whether you will be forgiven or accepted. that's it.

#saying this to all the idiots that are like “but catra suffered torture from horde prime!!” #or “catra has had enough trauma in her life do you want her to suffer more?” #no. we just want her to do better #we don't want to see her get hit by someone‚ we want her to be held accountable for her actions #spop critical #spop salt #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop #she ra #anti spop #anti catra #anticatra #redemption arc #redemption arcs

[invaderlynx]

I’m as sad as the next fan about Tech’s death, but I’m not gonna lie, I am also very excited to see Crosshair’s reaction to it. It’s just going to be like:

#listen i love crosshair but his suffering (and hopefully his eventual redemption and happiness) is integral to my enjoyment of this show #he really tried to keep his brothers safe #and this is where it got him #tbb spoilers #the bad batch spoilers #the bad batch #tbb crosshair #tbb tech

[secret-spirit]

REDEMPTION

So i had an idea-

What if the way to defeat Shadow Milk is to seal them away again but instead inside Pure Vanilla's souljam, PV is the only one who can see, hear and talk to Shadow Milk and vice versa with PV, so i thought this could be a chance to learn more about Shadow Milk and their reason to descend into Darkness. (Plus cue SM messing with PV so much until they get bored and slowly beginning to get mad at PV for thinking he even cares about them)

#pure vanilla cookie #shadow milk cookie #cookie run #redemption arc au #a painfully loooooong redemption probably #i literally went from “Shadow milk you make PV suffer” to “I want them to bond over their own separate traumas #also- the word PV is looking for mainly is that he was “afraid” of SM

[stressfulsloth]

Disco Elysium// Two Fishermen on an Aspidochelone, Unknown// Our Wives Under the Sea, Armfield// Unknown// Disco Elysium// Gallathea, Lyly// Sharks Feeding, Crossley// From Bodily Fear to Cosmic Horror (and back again), Miller// Disco Elysium// Early Verse, Marx// The Road, McCarthy// A Sacred and Terrible Air, Kurvitz (team ibex translation)// Disco Elysium// Disco Elysium// Disco Elysium Art Book// A Sacred and Terrible Air, Kurvitz// Nona the Ninth, Muir// Sunrise With Sea Monsters, Turner// Nona the Ninth, Muir// Disco Elysium// The World's One Hope, Brecht// The Old Gentleman of Raahe// Disco Elysium// Disco Elysium// Disco Elysium// Engraved Shell. Unknown// Capitalism and the Sea// Disco Elysium// Capitalism and the Sea//

#personal #disco elysium #tlt #web weaving #another.. mushed up quote collection #some of these works i am not a massive fan of- side-eying the road- but the quotes just. idk they ended up in the collection anyway #and somehow they fit perfectly to me #something something the sea and suffering and longing and distance #the horror of something vast and unknowable and dangerous #but also a place of peace + redemption + connection #'love and pain both play.' it's a space for both.... #harry's recontextualisation of his tramatic memories of the suicie attempt in the crash where he's reimagining himself as a sea monster #and the parallel with cunoesse's response to her trauma #i couldn't fit in the screenshot but #'she regresses and pretends she's a mythological creature when she's under too much stress' #oufdhggh #pjõl #sacred and terrible air #disco rambling

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

"Murder is Werewolves" - Batman

I don't got the SPOONS to do this thought train justice, I have seriously been trying to write this thing for MONTHS so just, idk, have this half baked skeletal outline of the essay I guess:

I don't believe that Batman's no-kill rule is primarily about rehabilitation or second chances.

His refusal to believe that Cassandra could have killed someone when she was eight years old because "how could a killer understand my commitment not to kill" is absolute fucking MOON LOGIC from a rehabilitationist standpoint. No jury on the planet would think for even a second that she could reasonably be held accountable for her actions in that situation! Her past cannot condemn her to being incapable of valuing human life under a rehabilitation centering framework. However, Batman's reasoning makes perfect sense if he believes that killing is a spiritually/morally corrupting act which permanently and fundamentally changes a person, and that corruption can never be fully undone.

Dick Grayson killing the Joker is treated both narratively and by Batman as an unequivocally WIN for the Joker. The Joker won by turning Nightwing into a killer. Note that this is during a comic in which the Joker transforming people was a major theme! Batman didn't revive the Joker because the Joker deserved to live; he revived the Joker to lift the burden on Dick.

His appeal to Stephanie when she tried to kill her dad is that she shouldn't ruin her own life. He gives no defense of Cluemaster's actual life. Granted this is a rhetorical strategy moment and should be taken with a generous pinch of salt, but it fits in the pattern.

When Jason becomes a willful killer, he essentially disowns him, never treats him with full trust ever again, and... Well, we can stop here for Bruce's sake. Bottom line is that his actions towards Jason do not lead me to believe that he thinks Jason can become a better person without having his autonomy taken from him, either partially or fully.

The Joker is, for better or worse, the ultimate symbol and vessel of pure, irredeemable evil in DC comics now. He hasn't been just another crook in a long time. He will never get better, he will only get worse. If you take it to be true that the Joker will not or can not rehabilitate, then there's no rehabilitationist argument against killing him.

Batman does not seem to consider it a possibly that he'll rehabilitate. Batman at several points seems to think that the Joker dying in a manner no one could have prevented would be good. Yet Batman fully believes that if he killed the Joker, he himself would become irredeemable.

Batman's own form of justice (putting people into the hospital and then prison) is fucking brutal and clearly not rehabilitative. He disrespects the most basic human rights of all criminals on a regular basis. It is genuinely really, really weird from a rehabilitationist standpoint that his only uncrossable line is killing... But it makes perfect sense if he cares more about not corrupting himself with the act of killing than the actual ethical results of any individual decision to kill or not kill.

In the real world cops are all bastards because they are too violent to criminals, even when that violence doesn't lead to death. Prison is a wildly evil thing to do to another human being, and you don't use it to steal away massive portions of a person's life if your goal is to rehabilitate them. In the comic world, Batman is said to be necessary because the corrupt cops are too nice to criminals and keep letting them out of jail. I don't know how to write a connector sentence there so like I hope you can see why this bothers me so damn much! That's just not forgiveness vibes there Batman!!

I want to make special note here of the transformative aspect. You don't simply commit a single act when you kill, no, you become a killer, like you might become a werewolf.

The narrative supports this a lot!

Why did Supes go evil during Injustice? He killed the Joker. Why did Bruce become the Batman Who Laughs? Bruce killed the Joker. Why was Jason Todd close to becoming a new Joker during Three Jokers? Because he killed people, to include the Joker.

Even if these notions of redemption being impossible aren't the whole of his reasoning (people never have only one reason for doing what they do) it is a distinct through-line pattern in his actions and reasoning, and it is directly at odds with notions of rehabilitation, redemption, and second chances.

So why does he give so many killers second chances?

Firstly because this doesn't apply to all versions of Batman. Some writers explicitly incorporate rehabilitation and forgiveness into his actions. You will be able to provide me with examples of this other through-line pattern if you go looking for them. The nature of comics is to be inconsistent.

Secondly the existence of that other pattern does not negate the existence of this one. People and characters are complex, and perfectly capable of holding two patterns of belief within themselves, even when they conflict to this degree. You can absolutely synthesize these two ideas into a single messy Batman philosophical vibescape.

Finally and most importantly to this essay: he has mercy on killers the same way that werewolf hunters sometimes have mercy on someone who is clearly struggling against their monsterous nature, especially if they were turned in exceptional circumstances or against their will. They understand that they are sick, damned beasts, cursed to always be fighting against themselves and the evil they harbor within. It is vitally kind to help them fight themselves by curtailing their autonomy in helpful ways and providing them with chances to do some good to make up for their eternal moral deficiency.

I think in many comics Batman views killers as lost souls. Battered and tormented monsters who must be pitied and given mercy wherever possible. (The connections to mental health, addiction, and rampant, horrifying ableism towards people struggling with both is unavoidable, but addressing it is sadly outside of the scope of this essay.)

Above all, the greatest care possible must be taken to never, ever let yourself become one of them, because once you have transformed the beast will forever be within you growing stronger.

To Batman, it is the most noble burden, the highest mercy, the most important commandment: Thou shalt suffer the monsters to live.

#batman #batman negative #batsalt #okay hopefully that will let peeps who don't wanna see me rant against bats avoid this? #i could write several books on the moral and ethical philosophies at play in the Batfam tbh #I'm like kinda mostly happy with this #pretty good for being slammed out in three hours while baking brownies #inspired muchly by my friend's talk about Batman acting in accordance with Presbyterian predestination #and how he is one of the most carceral of all superheroes #all people merely revealing through their actions what sort of person they already are #punishing them in the hopes they can suffer enough penance on earth to escape hell #how that can look like rehabilitation or redemption at a glance #but functions in a fundamentally different way #anyway hope this mess was an interesting read! #damian's tomfoolery

[daisymintt]

Merlin: [hiding in a box] This is better than Disneyland. A box is basically a vent that moves. Hey, you think Arthur will put me in a box for my birthday?

Leon: I don't need to hear that.

#bbc merlin #merlin incorrect quotes #incorrect merlin quotes #incorrect quotes #the adventures of merlin #merlin #merlin emrys #merlin bbc #arthur pendragon #king arthur #arthur x merlin #merlin x arthur #bbc arthur #bbc arthur pendragon #incorrect merthur quotes #bbc merthur #merthur #leverage redemption #leon the long suffering #bbc leon #sir leon

[tabernacleheart]

It is certain that in everyone’s lives there are times of trials and suffering. When they come, we may wonder how a good God could allow evil things to happen to us or the ones we love. The Christian response to suffering is not to despair but rather to practice a holy resignation to God’s will, apply their sufferings for the redemption of others, be hopeful that God will bring good out of evil, and rejoice in God’s eschatological triumph over evil. If we do these things, we will find the sweet joy of God’s comfort in the midst of pain.

Michael Lofton

#Michael Lofton #suffering #holy abandonment #redemptive suffering #hope #christ is victorious #a vital reminder #take comfort #god can use all things for good #do not despair

[some-anonymity-preferred]

all the good takes about that arc

Because I need them, and maybe you do, too.

Ways to Read the Arc that I Can Possibly Get Behind, Some Day

@areyoudoingthis on joining ed in valuing his own arc far more than he does izzy's

@forpiratereasons on how the arc is about the crew, not izzy

@asneakyfox explaining just how izzy's homophobia was stored in that rotten leg

@areyoudoingthis @medievill @appleteeth @maeglinthebold and @bookshelfdreams on Stede's effect on everyone, including Izzy, and Buttons flying over Izzy with the leg the crew gave him

@asneakyfox on how Izzy enjoying the behaviors he threatened Ed's life over is a means by which the narrative addresses his actions

@notfromcold on changed behavior being the best apology

@asneakyfox on how hbo's cut from 10 episodes to 8 negatively affects Izzy's arc, even if it's working for you

@doctornerdington on how ofmd's writing always asks you to read the subtext (even if I can hardly stand to look directly at this arc)

@zo1nkss with the pettiest take and I love it--Izzy doesn't deserve confrontation with Ed, let the lack of it be part of his suffering

Which is Not to Say We Aren't Suffering

@tfemteach wishing for just one line of apology and bringing all the discussion in the notes

@suffersinfandom on differential treatment of Ed's wrongs and Izzy's wrongs

Fix-Its

@asneakyfox with vision for ep 5.5, wee john, and ned lowe

@blackbonnetblog looking for a similar ep 5.5

@naranjapetrificada on izzy hungering for flesh

Mine: death without resolution is at least a rich source for fic development

Helpful Tangents

@ourflagmeansgayrights @zo1nkss and @lostakasha unapologetically appreciating Ed Teach as vehicle for revenge fantasies

@batsarebetterthanpeople on how the narrative makes it clear Izzy is one of Ed's abusers

@areyoudoingthis with a tangent that i needed, about ned lowe and ofmd still punishing racists, just complicating the aftermath

Mine (w/ debt to @naranjapetrificada): retribution vs rehabilitation vs atonement

The Very Best For Last

#ofmd #ofmd season 2 #izzy critical #izzy hands #edward teach #this redemption arc is a fucking trust fall for me #being a fandom is suffering #fandom racism #domestication arc #we'll get into morality later. for now stop chewing on the furniture #ofmd season 2 spoilers #ofmd s2 #good takes on izzy’s season 2 arc

[apenitentialprayer]

I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you and it as well.

Samwise Gamgee (J.R.R. Tolkien's The Return of the King)

#Christianity #Catholicism #Good Shepherd #Jesus Christ #Adam and Eve #Lord of the Rings #Samwise Gamgee #J.R.R. Tolkien #Parable of the Good Samaritan #suffering #compassion #icon #redemption #grace

[meeks-just-wants-to-scroll]

“What if we make two men who hate each other and an unfortunate rich boy travel across the RDR2 map while avoiding an apocalypse-level monster invasion?” - Doeiika, at some point.

Go read The World by @doeiika / SourApplechips on AO3.

Under the cut is art involving blood / gore… also a brief reference to Blood Under The Snow by Amras.

To be the protagonist is to be changed (physically and or mentally).

#meek’s art #rdr2 fanfic #fan art #rdr2 fanart #red dead redemption 2 fanart #red dead redemption 2 #rdr2 #red dead redemption two #gore #gore cw #gore tw #blood #blood cw #blood tw #hand trauma #physical trauma #fair warning that the fan fiction is pretty gruesome #but it is not… *that* gruesome? it is lost of desc of dead bodies but very little written out dying or suffering #besides the characters suffering from the smell of corpses #blood under the snow #art dump #Micah bell #Arthur Morgan #rdr2 oc

[sandushengshou]

happy birthday @gege!!

#cheng yi #love and redemption #cdrama #cdramaedit #cdramasource #userkareena #asiandramanet #* #im scheduling this so it comes out of the queue before your bday is over #so you can enjoy some sifeng at his most sexy form - bloody and suffering #what can i say doris #the cdrama fandom is very lucky to have you #but i still want to fight you in a denny's parking lot #one day! #but until then - i hope you had a good birthday 💜 #xoxo #*lar