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viridianllamasinthesilentspace · 1 year

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Sorting “Hadestown”

Our Hades cares about very few things, but when he cares, he cares intensely: Namely, about Persephone, Hadestown, and the system of rules he uses to govern it. The prequel song we get about his past with Persephone, Epic II, is a story about a Slytherin who “unpetrifies”. He starts off cruel and overly logical, made of metal and machines—

Heavy and hard is the heart of the king King of iron, king of steel The heart of the king loves everything Like the hammer loves the nail

—but upon meeting Persephone, he’s so struck by her beauty (and, we’ll assume, the beauty of her personality) that he unpetrifies.

But even that hardest of hearts unhardened Suddenly, when he saw her there Persephone, in her mother’s garden Sun on her shoulders, wind in her hair

The smell of the flowers she held in her hand And the pollen that fell from her fingertips And suddenly Hades was only a man With a taste of nectar upon his lips

This song also gives us a dual framing of Hades that gets developed throughout the rest of the album, that of The Man and The King. The Man Hades loves Persephone and that’s pretty much it. He’s a one-person Slytherin [Primary]. The King Hades has an Idealist Primary model, and he gives a walk-through of his system in his catechism-inspired Why We Build the Wall. The way he approaches this system, as a logical call-and-response, points to his Ravenclaw Secondary. We see that in other places, too, first when he seduces Eurydice with talk of practicality and stability, and again when he talks about how the danger in Orpheus is his ability to create a ripple in Hades’ plans and bring the whole thing crashing down around them.

In Hadestown, Hades runs the mines and often talks about money. The contrast with Orpheus’ pull toward the natural (see Wedding Song) is in what makes the things associated with Hades valuable and that his whole operation is based on taking something naturally occurring (ore, raw gems) and inducting them into a created system of value. This association of Hades with man-made industries like mines and money, and possibly some bleed-over from his Secondary, make him feel like a Ravenclaw; but we don’t actually know enough about how he came upon his system to discern whether or not it is. If he’s got a Gryffindor model instead, it’s likely a Stripped Gryff—one that wished once for a higher idealism but has had to settle for something that feels more “realistic”. This would explain his particularly sharp disdain for the bright-eyed Orpheus, and why Hades’s bargain is particularly and cruelly designed to shatter a Gryffindor.

Either way, though, it’s his Idealist model and not his Slytherin Primary that Orpheus upsets, threatening to throw a wrench in the delicate balance of order and power in his city (which he bemoans in How Long? and His Kiss, the Riot).

Whether or not Persephone chose to marry Hades isn’t talked about in Hadestown, but either way, she’s made the best of the situation with her beautifully community-based Hufflepuff Secondary. We meet her amidst a throng of workers, whose affection she obviously has, as she offers them spring leaves and summer rain and a glimpse of the sun, because she empathizes with them and this will make them happy.

Wipe away your tears, brother Brother, I know how you feel I can see you’re blinded by the sadness of it all But look a little closer and Everything will be revealed Look a little closer and There’s a crack in the wall

Her big reveal is that she has access to a crack in the wall around Hadestown, something that Hades doesn’t know about and specifically believes would, if it existed, bring down the entire system he has in place.

Persephone’s ability to keep this from Hades speaks not only to her general competence, but also speaks to the narrative’s awareness that Hades’ system is too rigid. It’s flawed, and Persephone knows it. But she neither tells him nor seems to lack loyalty to him because of it. In Too Long, she puts her foot down because Hades is her husband and she demands respect from him, and while they argue, they are specifically united in the final chorus and subsequent songs as lovers. She is loyal to him, and from what we see, I think it’s a Slytherin Primary’s loyalty.

While she argues for Orpheus’ chance to reunite with Eurydice, she never gets upset about it (or anything, really). It seems to be more of a “But, Hades, they’re so cute! And it’s really harmless, I promise,” type of situation, with her interest being that of a Hufflepuff Primary model. A Hufflepuff Primary model would also explain her apparent care for the workers. She loves them and cares for them because it makes her happy, but not because she feels obligated. While there’s definitely room in the text to argue for a Hufflepuff/Hufflepuff Persephone, the way I read her, she would be able to drop the workers without feeling any guilt. Caring about them is the way she enjoys herself and works toward the same socially harmonious ends as her husband; but it isn’t so much a moral calling for her.

And, after all, who better to run Hadestown’s black market than a Slytherpuff who models Puff and is married to the Boss? She’s powerful, selfish, and ruthless, but also genuine, kind, and caring. Adored, respected, and having the time of her life, helping her husband rule from behind the scenes.

Our protagonist, Orpheus, is a Gryffindor/Gryffindor who’s bitter about the failure of the world to live up to his standards of fairness. Forever the artist, singing about beautiful fantasy times in Wedding Song, he throws himself whole-heartedly into their romance and charges bravely after Eurydice when she goes with Hades. Not acting seems not to be an option for him. If Eurydice has left, then he will follow after.

Wait for me, I’m coming Wait, I’m coming with you

This means that when he crashes, he crashes hard. In If It’s True, Orpheus is balancing his misery over, potentially, never getting Eurydice back from Hades with his distrust of everyone who’s telling him so. He doesn’t trust the world to be honest and just, so he has to trust his own drive and his own guidance. It is more reliable than people telling him what is and is not possible or worthwhile.

And in Doubt, his doubts catch up to him. The pressure of the world telling him it’s impossible, that it’s hopeless, that he’s lost Eurydice for good, becomes too much and pushes past his own internal Gryffindor compass. We don’t see him after he turns around and loses Hades’ challenge, but it would not be far-fetched to think that he “stripped”, at least a little. It is that loss of faith in the internal compass that best breaks a Gryffindor. The irony of his story is that he would have succeeded if not for that doubt.

Doubt comes in With tricky fingers Doubt comes in With fickle tongues Doubt comes in and my heart falters And forgets the songs it sung Where are you? Where are you now?

Wedding Song is a sweet and fun song about being in love and planning your future together and finding happiness during hard times. But the call and response the two lovers have is more complicated than that; they don’t share perspectives even once during the song, both stuck on their own mental tracks. Eurydice wants to be pragmatic about their future together while Orpheus wants to revel in daydreams about it. He’s charging with all of his romance into their future, and she’s trying to ground them. That she presumably finds this cute doesn’t make it any less indicative of a relationship problem. After all, Hades convinces her to come with him by promising to provide what Orpheus can’t: food, warmth, a place to lie down...and a Ravenclaw Secondary.

Hey, little songbird, let me guess He’s some kind of poet—and he’s penniless Give him your hand, he’ll give you his hand-to-mouth He’ll write you a poem when the power’s out Hey, why not fly south for the winter?

It’s a calculated decision, because everything she does is calculated. And whether or not Hades knows that about her, he’s offering practicality to her just as much as he’s offering stability.

Flowers is a song mourning the life she left behind, because that’s important, too, and because she feels tricked by Hades’ cruelty toward Orpheus. This is a song about her exhaustion, and the sourness of burning enough to give up her old community. This is a very Hufflepuff song, and is somewhat about her “burning”. I don’t think she burns entirely, but her resignation to a new community without actively trying to keep her old one speaks to at least a little burning.

I remember someone Someone by my side Turned his face to mine And then I turned away Into the shade You, the one I left behind If you ever walk this way Come and find me lying In the bed I made

By the end of the story, she isn’t spiraling a Gryffindor spiral of the injustice of Orpheus’ banishment from Hadestown. She isn’t a Slytherin who’s petrifying so she doesn’t have to feel the pain of losing Orpheus. She isn’t a Ravenclaw who’s adopted a new system. She’s a Hufflepuff who’s made friends with Persephone and is wishing Orpheus a good life, even if their lives are now meant to be separate, and even if she’s edging closer toward Burned than she was before—because that’s the logical thing to do. Eurydice’s journey is one of changing community, and she deals with it like the beautiful Hufflepuff/Ravenclaw that she is. In Hadestown, she never stops loving Orpheus, but leaves for the practical reason that if she does, she’s guaranteed a life where she no longer has to worry about where her next meal is going to come from.

TL;DR

Hades: Slytherin/Ravenclaw with either a Ravenclaw Primary or Stripped Gryffindor model.

Persephone: Slytherin/Hufflepuff with a Hufflepuff Primary model.

Orpheus: Gryffindor/Gryffindor.

Eurydice: Hufflepuff/Ravenclaw, who burns just a little.

#shc repost #not my sorting

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viterbofangirllovestheuntamed · 2 years

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CQL Character Sorting Hat, part two!

(part one here!)

N.B.#1: This analysis is based on @sortinghatchats’s aMAZEBALLS system so if you have any confusion, please reference their site! (Please note that as far as actual house segregation goes, a character would usually be sorted into their Primary house, though being sorted into their Secondary house is not impossible if those traits are particularly prominent.)

N.B.#2: This is EXCLUSIVELY based on characterization from The Untamed/CQL series, as I am still in the process of reading the novel and not in the original language anyway.

Part Two: The Jiangs

Jiang Cheng: Ah, my favorite meow meow. My most precious wet paper towel man. Love of my life human disaster. This boy is a TEXTBOOK Slytherin Primary. His moral compass is firmly calibrated around those dear to him-- namely, his family and his sect. If it endangers these people (either physically or via damaged reputation) then it is Bad. Whatever is deemed Good for these people is pursued with grim determination. And if the matter doesn’t involve these people whatsoever? Not his circus, not his monkeys; he can’t be bothered to care.

And as for his Secondary? I’ll be honest, for a while, I was distracted by his anger issues and thought he was the heedlessly-charging Gryffindor secondary. I was hella wrong. Jiang Cheng is a very solid Hufflepuff secondary: toiling, hard-working, and even community-building... albeit only directed to building his sect’s community.

Jiang Yanli: I’ll be honest, I find her a pretty even split between Hufflepuff and Slytherin for her Primary house, so she’s either a Hufflepuff with a strong Slytherin Model, or a Slytherin with a strong Hufflepuff Model. Both are Loyalist houses focused on people and their wellbeing, with the Hufflepuff’s attention directed to humanity in general and the Slytherin’s more focused on a smaller group of “their” people. The issue is, Yanli definitely does have “HER” people, whose importance is paramount... but does she have the same disinterest in those not directly important to her that her brother does? She is so very sweet and loving that I legitimately don’t know. My gut says that she’s a Slytherin Primary with an abnormally sincere Hufflepuff Model, but it really truly could be vice versa.

I found myself wrestling with the same dilemma regarding her Secondary house, but that one is a little more clear, I think. While I firmly believe that Yanli is capably of being subtle and canny in her approach, I think it is in the more shallow framework of a Performance than a Secondary. While too frail to physically toil, she is nevertheless tireless in her attempts to build loving infrastructure and encourage harmony in those around her.

Jiang Fengmian: His character/characterization is a little nebulous, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say that he is a mirror image of his daughter-- namely, a Hufflepuff Primary with a Slytherin Model. The thing is, Jiang Fengmian, for all his faults, truly is very egalitarian and welcoming (or at lease tolerant) towards those on lower societal rungs in the way of true Hufflepuffs. However, his personality is so wholly phlegmatic that it manifests in sort of lackluster Slytherin patterns; if he isn’t specifically interested, then he doesn’t bother exerting himself to engage. Interestingly, this means that his Model isn’t a mode of living that he has deliberately chosen or decided was worth emulating, but rather a result of his extreme passivity.

This same passivity makes it difficult to determine his Secondary house, as that house involves how you react to external stimuli. The two obvious contenders are evade-your-problems Slytherin or analysis-paralysis Ravenclaw, but as he does not seem to particularly exert himself to try new paths when the old ones don’t work OR amass skills or knowledge for later use, neither is a precise fit. I’ll pick Slytherin because they also have a “neutral” mode that is perhaps the best fit, but I could easily be wrong.

Yu Ziyuan: Buckle up, my dudes, because the Violet Spider is one of the nastiest examples of a double Gryffindor in the series. Both Slytherin and Gryffindor Primaries have moral frameworks that are internally-calibrated. But whereas a Slytherin knows that their morality is based on their people and therefore knows their own sense of right-and-wrong is subjective (not that they care), a Gryffindor’s morality is based on their instinctual inner-gut sense of right-and-wrong and is perceived to be objectively moral. If Madame Yu was a Slytherin Primary, she would know that she and her children were her most important people and, while still mistreating Wei Wuxian, would not be as emotionally invested in crushing him beneath her heel. But. She is a Gryffindor, and her inner gut’s calibration is not egalitarian, it is hierarchical and a no-name orphan being raised above her children is WRONG and her children’s father doting on said orphan over his own children is WRONG and since those things are WRONG then she is RIGHT-- nay, morally justified-- in doing whatever she can to fight against this interloper.

Combine this with a Gryffindor secondary that acts/reacts first and thinks later if at all... yikes.

#jiang cheng #jiang yanli #hogwarts houses #sortinghatchats #yu ziyuan #jiang fengmian #the untamed #cql #chen qing ling #mod analysis #personality types

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missbrunettebarbie · 1 year

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I’ve been rewatching Buffy and for sometime now I’ve been contemplating far too much about the characters hogwarts houses and I keep getting baffled by Willow. She changes soooo much I almost had forgotten! Later seasons she’s a gryff or raven but am I the only one who sees a veryy solid hufflepuff (with Ravenclaws love of learning) in the first 2/3ish seasons????

Well, if we are using sortinghatchats' method, Willow is a (unhealthy at first) Snake primary, Bird secondary with a Badger secondary model. Hope it helps!

#willow rosenberg #btvs thoughts #shc thoughts #my thoughts #answer #anonymous

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laurie-vexen · 2 years

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CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGE 1: BATTERY OF TESTS

Enneagram Type 4 - The Individualist

Fours build their identities around their perception of themselves as being somehow different or unique; they are thus self-consciously individualistic. They tend to see their difference from others as being both a gift and a curse – a gift, because it sets them apart from those they perceive as being somehow “common,” and a curse, as it so often seems to separate them from the simpler forms of happiness that others so readily seem to enjoy.

Personality DNA - Reserved Builder

I am Reserved because I’m not someone who always needs to have others around, and I find I can handle most situations on my own. I am Builder because I am detail-oriented, cautious, and practical.

Moral Alignment - True Neutral

A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn’t feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs evil or law vs chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality.

16 Personalities - Architect (INTJ)

It can be lonely at the top. As one of the rarest personality types – and one of the most capable – Architects (INTJs) know this all too well. Rational and quick-witted, Architects pride themselves on their ability to think for themselves, not to mention their uncanny knack for seeing right through phoniness and hypocrisy. But because their minds are never at rest, Architects may struggle to find people who can keep up with their nonstop analysis of everything around them.

Sorting Hat Chats - Gryffindor Primary / Ravenclaw Secondary

Gryffindor Primaries trust their moral intuitions and have a need and a drive to live by them. They feel what’s right in their gut, and that matters and guides them. If they don’t listen to and act on that, it feels immoral.

Ravenclaw secondaries are collectors. Dedicated to knowledge, to facts, systems, tools, or skills, the things they have already learned are what they call on when things get tough. They can collect useful skills, build complex clever systems, invent vitally useful things, or just learn everything there is to know about the large cats of South America.

Four Temperaments - Melancholic

The melancholic temperament is fundamentally introverted and is given to thought. Melancholic people often are perceived as very (or overly) pondering and are both considerate and very cautious. They are organized and schedule oriented, often planning extensively. Melancholics can be highly creative in activities such as poetry, art, and invention- and are sensitive to others.

DISC - S Style

The S Personality Type in the DISC model, developed by Dr. William Marston, is known for being steady, stable, and predictable. They are even-tempered, friendly, sympathetic with others, and very generous with loved ones. The S is understanding and listens well. Preferring close, personal relationships, the S is very opened with loved ones but can also be possessive at times and hold them close.

#about #aop character development

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ecclectricity · 2 years

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Which Hogwarts house are you?

You're a Burned Slytherin Primary and a Ravenclaw Secondary.

A burned Slytherin can understand the value of having people to care for, or even desire those types of connections, but has learned that the costs of such close loyalties is too high to pay. Loving people means they can hurt, betray, or leave you. Loving people means you bleed yourself dry for them, and burned Slytherins have taken a step back in order to preserve and safekeep their own selves.

Ravenclaw Secondaries collect-- hobbies, skillsets, knowledge. Ravenclaws are collectors. Dedicated to knowledge, to facts, systems, tools, or skills, the things they have already learned are what they call on when things get tough. They can collect useful skills, build complex clever systems, invent vitally useful things, or just learn everything there is to know about the birds of South America. Ravenclaws’ efficacy often relies on what situation they are in: what the problem is they have to solve and whether or not they’ve prepared the proper tools for that problem. While Hufflepuffs and Gryffindors can apply their skills at stockpiling trust or inspiring passion to attack various situations, Ravenclaws’ tools are necessarily task specific. Do they know how to ride horses? Speak Greek? Do they have contingency plans for earthquakes, zombie apocalypses, or a surprise visit from the in-laws? If they’ve already built themselves a tool set for a situation, they’re likely to excel at it. If they have not, they’re likely to blink a few times while they try to either invent something new for themselves or to cobble up something approximate from their existing resources. Ravenclaw Secondaries are at their best when they can prepare before the problems show up, not improvise or invent in the moment. Ravenclaws invest in tools. These tools can vary from detailed knowledge of modern Romance languages, Mesopotamian history, Gothic architecture, and US civil court legal procedures; or mastering the skills of carjacking, gourmet vegan cooking, juggling, and staying level-headed in crisis; or keeping internal (or external) databases on their friends’, allies’, and enemies’ likes, dislikes, connections, obligations, fears, weaknesses, strengths, and goals. Some of these are more useful than others. Ravenclaws can collect their tools with the aim of eventual usefulness, but are likely to also collect knowledge just for the sake of knowledge.

You also may have a Gryffindor Primary Model. Gryffindor House is the house of justice and bravery. If you model Gryffindor Primary, you also value these things and like to live by them-- but you wouldn't feel guilty for dropping those goals in the service of your own priorities ( whether that's sticking by your chosen family or stopping your emotional biases from sending you down the wrong path ). But you'd like to value these things. They're good, solid, and satisfying. If the phrase "some things are just wrong" appeals to you, you might be a Gryffindor or have Gryffindor model.

tagged by: I stole it! tagging: really anybody, I love this sort of thing

#;; ᴍᴀꜱᴛᴇʀ ᴛᴀᴄᴛɪᴄɪᴀɴ { ɪᴄ - ᴄʟᴀᴜᴅᴇ }#;; ᴀɴᴅ ɴᴏᴡ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ɪ ᴋɴᴏᴡ. . . ɪ ᴡᴏɴ'ᴛ ᴍᴀᴋᴇ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴀᴍᴇ ᴍɪꜱᴛᴀᴋᴇ ᴀɢᴀɪɴ { ʜᴄ }#;; ɴᴏ ᴍᴀᴛᴛᴇʀ ʜᴏᴡ ʜᴀʀᴅ ʏᴏᴜ ʟᴏᴏᴋ ʏᴏᴜ ᴡᴏɴ’ᴛ ꜱᴇᴇ ᴡʜᴀᴛ ɪ’ᴍ ꜱᴄʜᴇᴍɪɴɢ { ᴍᴜꜱɪɴɢ }#{ god I have so many feelings about this #like I lean hard into Claude's paranoia and the fact that yes he wants to be kind #yes he wants to have friends and trust people #but based on so much in his life it is just SO HARD to let himself do that even after years of evidence to the contrary #he has tools that help him through social interactions and 'friendships' and he'd do so so so so so much for the people he cares about #but he also will NEVER abandon his goal #otherwise everything he's done up to this point is just null #moot #completely undermined #but also don't do anything to hurt him because he's fragile behind all of that kevlar and concrete he's built around himself #the model is just -chef's kiss- because #in an ideal reality I think he'd JUST be Gryffindor #it's what he got first actually and I disagreed with the description so i dug more #but keeping tabs on anything useful to him- even just a passing comment #that's so him #being afraid somewhere in him that those few he allows within ten feet of his heart will hurt or betray him ( again )#just #the absurd collection of random information and knowledge #this whole thing is just awesome and I love it }

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endlesscacophony · 2 years

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Which Hogwarts house are you?

you're a Burned Slytherin Primary and a Slytherin Secondary who models Ravenclaw.

Slytherin Secondaries adapt. They're flexible and multi-faceted. It doesn't feel disingenuous to them to act differently in different spaces.

If you model Ravenclaw secondary, then you use these tools (of data collection, analysis, and study) primarily when you think they will help or when they will be fun, but are less likely to jump to them when another way could be just as effective—- whether that’s confronting your problem head-on, playing things by ear, toiling, or calling on your community.

tagged by: I stole it! tagging: @aeipathic & anyone else who wants to! I find these fascinating.

#GOD sylvain is so complex i love him so much #man he would despise how 'pureblood' mentality the slytherin house would be?#the margrave would be THRILLED #but he would h a t e it #him being a burned slytherin would make so much damn sense #𝙏𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙢𝙚 𝙗𝙖𝙘𝙠 𝙮𝙤𝙪 𝙠𝙣𝙤𝙬 𝙢𝙮 𝙇𝙤𝙫𝙚 𝙞𝙨 𝙖 𝙒𝙚𝙖𝙥𝙤𝙣 (𝘚𝘺𝘭𝘷𝘢𝘪𝘯 || 𝘏𝘦𝘢𝘥𝘤𝘢𝘯𝘰𝘯)

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64bitgamer · 1 year

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air-in-words · 3 years

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My Sorting Hat Chats Journey

So, hi! I'm back!

I've been doing fun stuff off in the real world, but I decided to talk a little bit about my own Sorting Hat Chats sorting journey, and how it says a lot about self-acceptance, and how understanding who you really are can sometimes only come from being an active participant in life. Here we goooo...

The Beginning

So, my initial sorting was a Burnt Badger/Bird. This had struck me, because I'd never considered myself a Badger in ANY media. I was seen by my friends as a borderline loner, someone who didn't need anyone else. And yet, all the signs were there.

Looking back on my life, I've always migrated in groups, always looked for a nesting ground, and truly that's all I want. A place to nest, a place to rest, where I can feel safe and surrounded by people who love me. But, after a childhood filled with bullying, I found myself embarrassed of my bold face need for friends, and, for some reason, decided getting too close to people for too long was unwise, so I could probably never have a permanent home. And yet, I always found myself in these little "groups," little packs of people that all travel together.

I've always had these friend groups, where everyone knows each other, we all hang out together, and yet it always manages to eventually fall apart. I asked one of my friends how this keeps happening, and who keeps setting up these groups. She blinked sort of vaguely and said, "uh, you do." It was such a strange realization to look back and see myself as the "shepherd" I was, always creating a flock wherever I went. I had always been the spoke of my friend wheels, the only one that was friends with everyone, or actively tried to be friends with everyone. And I would attempt to hold it together, but it would always ultimately shatter, and I'd leave to find and form another. Family is important to me, and it isn't enough for me to bond with one person. I like for all my friends to be friends with each other, for us all to hang out together and enjoy each other's company.

So, although I still struggle, Burnt Badger came out on top, and I believe is still at the top to this day. I still search for belonging. I still search for family. And, yet, my heart seems to have no intention of unburning. Until recently, I had no idea why.

On the other hand, the secondary I received, Bird, seemed to fit like a glove, and was very obvious to me. I've been called the Encyclopedia before, I was made fun of for being caught reading the dictionary like it was a book, and I always seem to have a "fun fact" for every occasion. And all of this seemed to flow directly into me trying to use these facts and this knowledge to win people over, to get to see me as someone that could be their friend, or that I could be reliable as a member of their "group." So, Burnt Badger/Bird simply made sense. The reasons for me avoiding unburning my primary were irrelevant.

The Now

I'd been gone from this side of Tumblr for a bit, and decided to return on a whim. Saw @wisteria-lodge still posting as much as ever, and saw a lot of my posts had been passed around in the meantime (thank ya by the way) and decided to dive back in, because since then, so much of my life has changed. I've had certain people out of my life for a while that were a hindrance on my self-acceptance, I've moved out of my childhood home, and left a job I've had for the past 5 years. I've been forced to constantly LIVE, to make choices, actual choices, and have been offered the chance to be who I truly am, unapologetically.

So, I took the quiz again, curious if I would come up any different.

I got Burnt Badger/Burnt Snake.

This time, I was almost insulted. A flush of memories, of past feelings came to me, most of all the need to push back, to insist in exasperation I'M NOT A LIAR, as though I was tired of defending myself. As hard as I tried, I somehow couldn't seem to get Bird secondary to reappear.... at all. Which was so crazy, because before, that was pretty much all I could get.

So, I went to the experts, the aforementioned wisteria-lodge and @sortinghatchats .

I looked through the Snake secondary tags and found myself lost in memories I had pushed down, so far down even I couldn't find them, wracked with shame and a need to hide this side of myself, something I'd hidden so well I'd pretty much convinced myself it had never existed.

Being a Bird had always been a choice for me. I decided that was what people must want, becoming intelligent, knowing all of these things, showing off, that would make people like me. But, although I can devour books like nobody's business, and I tend to worry and whinge before every major decision, feeling unprepared, I would always find myself falling short of my own expectations. The amount of times I'd promised myself and others to create a plan and study hard, ultimately fail to do so, and then lie to everyone about it was astounding. My public image continued to be "air-in-words the smart girl" but my private image was still LIAR and FAKE.

I would still somehow get all A's. I was very good at remembering facts and excellent at taking tests. I always thought of them like little tricks themselves, meant to trip you up, but if you paid attention, you could figure out the patterns and be able to bluster your way through stuff you might not even fully understand. You can figure out certain words through context clues, and I was always very comfortable trusting my memory with little preparation beforehand. And yet, I still lied and told everyone I'd studied, at least as a child, before high school.

Math was what eventually messed me up, and sent my self-image whirling into the ground. My grades suddenly went from straight A's to D's and F's. My parents were aghast, what had happened??? I was so intelligent, so smart, such a good student. What had gone wrong?? And, although I never admitted it outloud to them, I knew the answer. With math, you can't trick your way out. You either know how to do it and give the right answer, or you don't. And I had never studied a day in my life, never practiced, never worked hard at all. It was my horrible little secret and math had outed me. It continues to out me, because rather than actually work at it and get better, I managed to keep my grades through high school afloat by leaning on my other grades and taking remedial math courses with a teacher who loved me very much and would let me off easy. To this day, honestly, I can barely count. I might actually have some form of dyscalculia, but I know that if I were willing to try a little harder I could get better. But, why would I do that, when this way works just fine? Just coasting through? But, again, no one could know. Not even myself.

Through high school, I began letting people in on my secret Snake, because being a "slacker" was suddenly cool. I still couldn't let my parents know, or the teachers, but coming clean about not being a keener was what earned me new friend groups. I wasn't some weirdo who actually studied all the time: I was a kid who maybe did 60-70% of my homework and slid by on my good memory and general interest in learning. And my reputation. My reputation was key to my success.

College would be the thing that completely threw me to the ground. There were simply too many sirens singing at me, distractions pulling me away from my work. I'd never looked less like a Bird than in college. I was always skipping class, always not studying, and in fact, would openly fail most of my courses. And I just didn't seem to care. I slid into what I guess must have been a sort of neutral zone, but I wasn't happy. The mask was slipping off and I needed out. I couldn't keep up this charade anymore. It was stifling, trying to be a Bird, going to college for a very Bird degree, surrounded by actual Birds, it was all very much what I didn't want. I wanted something less "academic," less, well, boring. Maybe more Snake like.

And, so, here we are. Currently dropped out of college, living in an apartment with my friend, away from my parents' prying eyes, and with a new job that I chose for myself. On the brink of finally understanding myself, and maybe accepting myself as I am.

My Badger primary is burned because of my Snake secondary. Because I thought I was a sham, a liar, a con, and I didn't feel like I deserved to have people close to me. Those traits are bad, and I was a bad person. No one should be tricked by me.

But, after reading some of the stories from the experts and other Snake secondaries, I found this crazy thought, that perhaps being this way isn't a bad thing. Maybe I'm not a bad person. Maybe it's okay to be who I am. Maybe I can use these "powers" for good, and they aren't inherently evil.

So, at least for now, I'm choosing to identify as Burnt Badger/Burnt Snake with Bird Model. Seeing how it feels to accept myself and not try and force myself to be who I think I should be, or who others want me to be (which is a Snake secondary thing in the first place. Lol!)

For Fun, Here's Some Crazy Actual Snake Secondary Things I've Done That I'm Trying to Be Less Ashamed of Now

When I was little, I used to make up crazy stories about things I'd done to seem more interesting. The one that makes me cringe the most is that my uncle has a statue in his backyard that comes to life and goes on adventures with me. My uncle DID have a statue in his backyard that I really loved but no, it didn't (and still hasn't) come to life.

Some of these, I can't explain, like this one, where I somehow had more than one teacher convinced I'd handed in every piece of homework before the one I was giving them the sob story about that day. I literally had a teacher look me in the face, tell me I'd been handing in my homework really well thus far and knew I was trustworthy, so they'd let me slide with no mark against me. Meanwhile, I had missed the homework for the past THREE WEEKS IN A ROW. I just smiled and let it go. Variations of this situation happened throughout high school and college. And, no, I had no good reason not to do the homework. I just didn't want to do it. Lol.

I usually live in the "neutral state" around my close friends, since I think it's disrespectful not to be straight with them, but I have had to turn it on to help them occasionally. One of my friends was having issues with an ex of hers, she was thinking that maybe she should go back out with the guh, and I had been my blunt, neutral self the whole time, telling her flat out that that was a bad idea. But, it wasn't working. "Neutral state" isn't like a Lion's forceful natural state, I guess. So, I decided I would have to push her in a certain direction to help her get through it. I told her she should go back out with him, and although she did sort of call me out for lying, knowing I didn't actually want that, I told her she should if she really think she should. The dude didn't last one date without showing his ass again, and she thanked me for making her do that. Lol.

Finally, at least for this list, my most prized shameful memory, is when I was taking an acting class in college. We were supposed to create a wordless scene as our final, and I hadn't prepared anything, so I just skipped the day we were supposed to do them. But, I decided to show up for the last day to see if I could still somehow pass. She's going through the grades, and looks up and asks me, "I don't have anything written down for you, I can't remember, did you give a performance or not?" I knew I hadn't then, but decided to give one now. I told her yes I had done one, don't you remember came up with a name on the fly. The same friend from the last story was staring at me like she was about to burst. She thought for a moment, then exclaimed, "ah, of course! Yes, I think I remember. I remember you'd done pretty well. What grade did I give you?" I hedged my bets and said A-. Lol. I had never been filled with more pride shame in my life.

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painted-crow · 3 years

Note

Has anyone sorted Mad-Eye Moody?

I want to say Lion Snake, but it's tough because a lot of what we see of him isn't, uh, him.

We know he always tried to bring people in alive. I don't think this was a Badger thing, like they're people, I just think he thought it was Right. His Lion went a little haywire later, "seeing threats everywhere" --this does seem like a Lion trauma response, that his intuition was so keyed into potential danger that it started throwing up false positives.

We also know he was, uh, situationally attentive? (CONSTANT VIG--) which I think is so he could analyze situations and respond quickly. He just about has to be an Improvisational secondary, unless rapid fire Bird... hmm, he does have exploding dustbins, a magic eye, and tons of dark detectors, but I think that's a model--I don't think that's his main MO, just extra tools he could probably get by without but are good to have.

Lion secondary doesn't seem right either, I can't see him sticking to one method--I see him analyzing the situation in real time and reacting to it.

So: Lion primary, Snake secondary, Bird secondary model.

#sortinghatchats #meta #asks #paint speaks #gryffindor primary #slytherin secondary #ravenclaw secondary model

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wisteria-lodge · 4 years

Text

Character Analysis - Sorting Sherlock Holmes (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

a quick note on why I’m moving away from the HP terminology

So @sortinghatchats is brilliant. Absolutely my favorite character (and person!) analysis system. Instead of one house, you get two - a PRIMARY (your motivation, why you do things), and a SECONDARY (your toolbox, how you get things done.) A very stripped down refresher --

IDEALIST PRIMARY Lion/Gryffindor - I do what I feel is right. (MORAL) Bird/Ravenclaw - I do what I decide is correct. (LOGICAL) LOYALIST PRIMARY Badger/Hufflepuff - I do what helps my community (PEOPLE MATTER) Snake/Slytherin - I do what helps me/my inner circle (MY PEOPLE MATTER)

IMPROVISATIONAL SECONDARY Lion/Gryffindor- Charge! React! Smash the system! Snake/Slytherin- Transform, adapt, find the loophole. BUILT SECONDARY Bird/Ravenclaw - Plan, make tools, gather information. Badger/Hufflepuff - Community-build, caretake, call in favors.

Now let’s talk Sherlock Holmes!!!

***

Mycroft Holmes has a terrifying Bird secondary. He knows everything. He sees everything. He holds all the information in his head, all the time, and can tell you exactly how it connects. “Spymaster Mycroft” didn’t become proper fanon until 1970: in the books he’s more like a human computer, or a Mentat from Dune. This man is incapable of improvising. He hates casual conversation, hates changing his routine, just wants to sit and process and plan. He is the cartoon version of a Bird secondary.

Mycroft is so insanely ‘big picture’ that he barely notices specific individuals. He’s off in in the corner thinking about currency regulation and the situation in Siam. In “The Greek Interpreter” he hears about a woman who might be starving to death… and sort of vaguely puts it on his to-do list. Sherlock ends up handling it.

You could make a case for either a Bird or Lion primary. But I’m going with Lion. Mycroft values instinct like Lions do (”All my instincts are against this explanation.”) And Sherlock describes him as someone who “would rather be considered wrong than take the trouble to prove himself right.” This is teasing, but it’s a joke about a Lion who just sort of feels the answer, not a Bird who needs a reason to be correct. Mycroft’s Cause, the one we see him respond to emotionally, is the smooth functioning of his world. He has a little pocket carved out for his brother, but if he had to choose between the country that he embodies and Sherlock Holmes’ well-being, it’d be England every time.

Knowing that Mycroft has that much power but doesn’t care about individual people makes Sherlock... uncomfortable. It takes him a while to even mention his brother to Watson. And then he lies about how important Mycroft’s job is. Thematically, this where Moriarty comes in. James Moriarty – the older genius hiding deep in the establishment, running a criminal empire from behind a tenured professorship, never getting his hands dirty – is Dark Mycroft. Because Sherlock is pretty sure his brother is one of the good guys. He’s pretty sure Mycroft isn’t going to break bad and go full-on ‘ends justify the means’ supervillain.

But… like… he could.

Sherlock Holmes is also defined by his Bird secondary. His deductions, data, knowledge of crime – it’s his loudest trait. But it’s a model. He tells us it’s a model. This “habit of observation and inference which I formed into a system” is something he built – and honestly, he probably built it for Mycroft. The Holmes brothers don’t do conversations, they have deduction games. Sherlock never wins, but at least he plays on Mycroft’s level.

(Everything about Sherlock Holmes makes more sense when you think about Mycroft. Like the “brain-attic” metaphor. How did Sherlock get this idea that there’s some fast-approaching limit to the actual pieces of information he can fit in his head at once? Because he knows someone with far, far greater processing power).

Underneath this logical Bird secondary model, Sherlock Holmes has something that looks a lot more Snake He’s moody and mercurial. He improvises on the violin to help himself think. He loves acting. He loves disguises. He crushes on Irene Adler because their Snake secondaries have so much fun playing together. And when it’s important, Holmes goes full-on Snake. Need to get Watson away from Moriarty? Better forge a letter sending him on a fake errand.

And as far as primaries go... he’s a Badger. Sherlock Holmes cares about people. Oh wow does he care about people. If he doesn’t protect his client, it’s not a win – even if he solved the case with some brilliant bit of detection. He despises blackmailers, because they destroy lives in a cold, impersonal way. (At least murderers care.) He doesn’t mean to upset people with his deductions, and apologizes when he gets too coldly Bird: “Pray accept my apologies. Viewing the matter as an abstract problem, I had a forgotten how personal and painful a thing it might be to you.” When Watson talks about the “depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask,” Holmes is thirty seconds away from going vigilante killer because somebody hurt John Watson.

But the feeling isn’t just Watson-centric. Holmes doesn’t require Watson at his side the way a Snake would, because as long as he knows Watson is safe and happy, he is content. Holmes need-bases. It’s important that he works for people who need him. He generally dislikes working for the rich or upper-class (Soviet Russian Sherlock Holmes was totally a thing, they didn’t have to change much). He also has a *real* problem with overworking himself, which is very much a Badger primary and not Snake primary thing to do

He even community-builds. His Baker Street Irregulars, his connections over at Scotland yard, his tribe of interesting contacts and informants. Holmes values community. To him, community = safe. He loves London, but isolated rural areas makes him nervous:

“[in London] there is no lane so vile that the scream of a tortured child, or the thud of a drunkard’s blow, does not beget sympathy and indignation among the neighbors, and then the whole machinery of justice is ever so close that a word of complaint can set it going... But look at these lonely houses, each in its own fields… think of the deeds of hellish cruelty, the hidden wickedness which may go on, year in, year out, in such places, and none the wiser.”

And don’t get me wrong. Holmes loves his double Bird armor. It makes him feel powerful, and hides the fact that he cares so damn much. He likes to pretend he doesn’t: to care is to be weak, ineffective, and untrustworthy. (Mycroft is probably to blame for this bit of thinking too.) But Sherlock Holmes is still able to take off his Bird. He takes it off around Watson.

Dr. John Watson is a bright charging Lion secondary who is completely incapable of telling a lie. He’s ex-military. He’s Holmes’ muscle/backup. He’s got a gambling problem. And the thing about Holmes and Watson’s dynamic is that while Holmes calls the shots about 90% percent of the time, when it’s important – Watson goes full unstoppable-force Lion. And Holmes just buckles.

“Well, I don’t like it ; but I suppose it must be,” said I. “When do we start?” “You are not coming.” “Then you are not going,” said I. “I give you my word of honor – and I never broke it in my life – that I will take a cab straight to the police station and give you away unless you let me share this adventure with you” “You can’t help me.” “How do you know that? You can’t tell what may happen. Anyway, my resolution is taken.” Holmes had looked annoyed, but his brow cleared, and he clapped me on the shoulder. “Well, well, my dear fellow, be it so.”

Watson’s absolutely a Lion Primary too. First going into medicine, then joining the army even when that’s not the best career move? At the beginning of A Study in Scarlet, Watson is in terrible shape. Can’t sleep. Can’t stand loud noises. He’s “spending such money as I had considerably more freely than I ought.” But it’s not so much the PTSD as it is the the lack of purpose that’s getting to him. He talks a lot about his “meaningless existence” and how how “objectiveless was my life.” That’s a hurting, burned Lion, without a Cause.

And then Sherlock Holmes stumbles in. Overnight Watson’s life has meaning. He is going to help Holmes bring criminals to justice. He is going to make sure Holmes gets the recognition he deserves. And he’s going to get him clean. (ACD gets massive kudos for being against recreational cocaine and morphine use). The things Watson loves about Holmes, things like his “high sense of professional honor” – those are things that get under the skin of a Lion Primary. This is a guy with pictures of abolitionist preachers framed on his wall. John Watson’s not subtle.

“You don’t mind breaking the law?” [said Holmes] “Not in the least.” “Nor running a chance of arrest?” “Not in a good cause.” “Oh, the cause is excellent!” “Then I am your man.”

And of course, Holmes got lucky in Watson too. Holmes is a Loyalist primary who distrusts other Loyalist primaries – you can’t really blame him, he comes across so many repulsive ones in his day job. (Interestingly, the handful of times Holmes absolutely misreads a motive – “Yellow Face,” “Missing Three-Quarter,” “Scandal in Bohemia” – it’s because he’s going up against a Loyalist primary who is using their powers for good.)

But Watson is a trustworthy, dependable, predicable, honorable, Idealist who can look like a Loyalist because his Cause is so focused on one person. So Holmes can be secure in his doctor’s devotion while also getting to lean on the instincts of someone just unflinchingly moral.

tl;dr

Mycroft Holmes – Lion Bird. An extremely big picture Lion whose Cause involves keeping England together. He’s the light-side counterpart of Professor Moriarty.

Sherlock Holmes – Badger Snake. Builds a loud Double Bird model, partly for pleasure, partly have a relationship with his brother, and partly because dealing with so many low-life Loyalist primaries makes him distrust those instincts in himself.

Dr. John Watson - Double Lion. When we meet him he’s pretty burned, due to his twin Causes of Queen and Country not really working out. Luckily, he meets Sherlock Holmes, and finds a new Cause in him.

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sevilemar · 2 years

Note

sevi I wonder if you've ever considered being a Double Bird?

Well, someone here is absolutely convinced I'm a bird secondary, so I had a discussion with them about it. They did not convince me. I mean, I know I have a bird secondary model that I probably learned from my mum and that I've used for a long time. But ever since I acepted my snake, I feel so much better, so much more confident. It just feels right. And, quite frankly, that's good enough for me.

About my primary, well. If you look at the whole of what a snake primary is, a lot of it can look like a bird anyways:

But when the major part of your moral system that you feel viscerally is to protect yourself and your people, there are a lot of gaps in how you interact with the world and with moral situations. What do Slytherins do when confronted with gross wrongs like slavery, like murder, like unjust war–wrongs that don’t touch their people? [...]

Sometimes Slytherins can build systems that look like Ravenclaw systems– systems based on observational data, on adopted systems, or by keeping the moral guidance that they were taught growing up. The defining difference between these constructed additional Slytherin systems and the Ravenclaw Primary system is that the Slytherins are aiming for function and don’t have the same drive for truth. It matters much less if the system they build is true than if it is functional. The system should optimize for what they care about and what makes them happy, but this moral code is not viscerally driving like a Slytherin’s desire to protect those closest to them.

I know I built systems on top of my core belief, just like a bird. But whenever I talk to an actual bird primary, I am reminded that my systems are not like theirs. They care a lot about making their system as universal as possible. They will have a part for everything they have come across, from big things to small.

I am way more selective. In areas I am passionate about like communications and storytelling, my systems are pretty intricate. In areas I don't care about, there is barely anything. If I need to, I can built something there, but it's likely to be temporary and will get destroyed by intent or neglect when I don't need it anymore. What would probably be a nightmare to a bird is actually a relief to me. Because it takes a lot of energy to maintain systems, and why should I maintain something I don't care about?

My systems work very much like a bird's systems, in the way that I mostly use outside information to construct them. That's why I call it brainwork. It's stuff from outside, so it's stuff my brain processes. The opposite of that is what makes me a snake: the visceral conviction that I am the most important person in my world, and that whoever I choose means more to me than anything else in the world. And that is exactly as it should be, it's just right.

If you want to call me a double bird, you can. Just like my gender identity, I mostly don't care what names you give me. I am very interested in wisteria's upcoming Our Flag Means Death sorting post, because her take on Ed will be very interesting for me in this context.

As you can see, nonny, I have thought about it, but I never really considered it.

#sortinghatchats #snake primary #bird primary #snake secondary #bird secondary #ask answers

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viridianllamasinthesilentspace · 1 year

Text

Sorting “Welcome to Night Vale”

Carlos is a Gryffindor Primary whose one true Truth is Science.

This is not an uncommon thing, though outside our system these characters tend to be Sorted into Ravenclaw. They have a fearless, passionate, ’til-death-do-us-part love and dedication to science. Jane Foster from the MCU is this type of Gryffindor [Primary]. So is Patrick Carroll from the Secret Country trilogy by Pamela Dean.

However, in our system, this type of passionate scientist is not necessarily a Ravenclaw Primary but could just as likely be a Gryffindor Primary. Gryffindor and Ravenclaw are our two Idealist Houses (as compared to our two Loyalist Primaries, Hufflepuff and Slytherin). A Gryffindor’s truth is not built or constructed. It is not even found, exactly. It is believed wholeheartedly. It will not be abandoned. In this specific scientist character trope, even if there are other explanations or other paths, these Gryffindors will stay true to Science; but most of them, unlike Carlos, define science as “the empirical method”, rather than “buzz words and the bits of reality I believe to be true.”

Carlos enters Night Vale (where reality hides under the bed and cries) and continues to insist on his science being right. He observes things, and—instead of taking that new data and correcting for it, instead of using empirical evidence to come up with a new system that actually describes things he has experienced—he keeps clinging to ideas of “science” and “reality” that are constantly being proven untrue. He is delighted—and, importantly for our purposes, certain—even when the world keeps disagreeing with him.

This type of Gryffindor scientist commonly comes with a Ravenclaw Secondary in tow. This is the case with both Jane Foster and Patrick Carroll, who collect data and collect tools and collect experiences which add to and strengthen their Gryffindor Primary’s certainty. This can be very effective, as in Jane Foster’s case: Jane stays true to her science with a driving passion but is happy to adjust the details of her model of the universe as she gets new information about Thor, the Bifrost, or the Aether.

This is not the case with Carlos.

Carlos has a Gryffindor Secondary to go with his Gryffindor Primary. He charges at science. Gryffindor Secondary scientists tend to be the mad scientist. Carlos does not fit this trope, possibly because his world is mad and that kind of covers it.

Cecil is a Slytherin Primary. The most important thing to him, at the end of the day, is his people. Most importantly, Carlos and his niece. It is one of the places in Carlos and Cecil’s relationship which has the most potential for tension. The most important thing in the world to Carlos is Science, which is why he remained in the desert for as long as he did; and as the most important thing in the world to Cecil is Carlos, Carlos remaining in the desert is a source of strain. Why would Carlos choose the desert before Cecil? For Cecil, this is unintuitive. They each expect the other to share their own priorities: Carlos does not understand why anyone would not prioritize science, and Cecil has a hard time understanding why Carlos would stay away for that long.

This is a survivable misunderstanding—people, of course, can have wonderful and fulfilling relationships with people who do not share their priorities, and so, do not have the same Primary. If they couldn’t, the world would be rather boring. However, Cecil and Carlos are oblivious in certain ways. They both have some rather idealized models of their partner, and they both have a tendency to assume that other people feel just as they do. This leads to not just differences in their priorities, but miscommunication of their priorities.

While they have different Primaries, though, Cecil and Carlos share a Gryffindor Secondary, and that’s one of the places they connect.

Cecil’s Gryffindor Secondary is most apparent in his work. It’s evident in his leadership, but the other major way it shows itself is at all the times when Cecil finds himself utterly unable to not speak the truth.

When Cecil’s not supposed to talk about the dog park? He’s going to talk about the dog park. When he’s not supposed to talk about the giant stone, or this secret, or the angels? Cecil is going to talk about them. He’s not going to be able to help himself. This inability to pretend—to lie about something one cares about, like Cecil cares for Night Vale and the news—is indicative of a Gryffindor Secondary. There is an emphasis on honesty and integrity of presentation. Cecil will try, certainly, to obey the town rules on secrecy. He’s just really bad at it. As the truth of a situation becomes more apparent, the rules he’s trying to follow seem more...bendable.

The second place Cecil’s Gryffindor Secondary reveals itself is ‘his relationship to leadership’. When Cecil gets passionate about something, the whole town rises to meet him. This is not a Hufflepuff Secondary calling on a community they have invested in. Cecil has emotionally invested in this town, certainly—his Slytherin Primary loves it dearly. However, he does not have the Puff Secondary investments in work, community building, or service, which create a certain type of trust and debt. The type of power Cecil has is better termed ‘persuasion’ or ‘influence’.

There is an obvious integrity to Cecil when he is passionate about something, and it sways people. When Cecil becomes passionate about something, his listeners believe him; they believe in him. They believe in things because he believes them. This happens during multiple adventures: If Cecil calls on the citizens, they will answer. This Gryffindor Secondary dedication to truth, honesty, and influence is very fitting for journalist Cecil.

The one time this doesn’t happen—when Cecil calls the town to arms to help Tamika Flynn—he feels betrayed. And, almost more importantly for his Sorting, he feels shocked. He ran into a limit of his power to inspire. This is a thing he expects to work.

Dana has the hard-working Hufflepuff Secondary. Trapped in the dog park, Dana doesn’t stop working. She does not charge, transform, or build; she just continues with a quiet and determined dedication to work ethic that seems to be for the sake of hard work itself. This is a Hufflepuff Secondary’s ability to personify the moral of the tortoise and the hare story: “Slow and steady wins the race.”

Dana misses her family, but not with a Slytherin Primary’s pointed desperation. Her thoughtful sense of duty and dedication nods toward a Hufflepuff Primary who’s bonded to the town and the radio, rather than the individuals involved in it; or to a Ravenclaw Primary who has dedicated themselves to a Puff Secondary’s system of work and service. We err toward the Ravenclaw, because there’s something about Dana that feels so quietly deliberate and constructed. She thinks about things, hard, and then enacts them with her Secondary’s hard work.

TL;DR

Carlos is a Gryffindor Primary/Gryffindor Secondary, who shares his charging Secondary with Cecil. Cecil, however, has a Slytherin Primary that values the people he loves over his ideals.

Dana has a Hufflepuff Secondary, and either a constructed Ravenclaw Primary or a dutiful Hufflepuff Primary.

#shc repost #not my sorting

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paintpencilink · 4 years

Note

Do you have any tips on how to distinguish between Bird Secondary and Badger Secondary please ? Whichever I have , I also model the other very strongly , but I don’t know which one was the original one .

I had the same problem!

There are a handful of questions you might ask yourself, in trying to figure this out:

1. What do you fall back on?

If you're in a pinch--you have a stressful or time-sensitive problem--do you:

self-adapt into someone who can deal with the problem

ask others for help

use privileges or resources that are available to you because of previous hard work

try empathy and negotiation to deal with anyone who might be against you

Or are you more comfortable doing these?

first, understand the problem and the restrictions/limits that your solution will have to accommodate; try to figure out the system and look for a loophole

use a skill you've learned, a tool you've collected, or resources you've stockpiled

ask others for advice

do heavy research on the problem before you decide how to solve it

Of course, you probably do some of both, but what are you more comfortable with? Which methods do you usually have more faith in working?

2. What were you like as a kid?

Can you remember collecting things? Obsessively learning about certain topics (and this includes more than just book reading)? Did you have projects about things you were curious about? --say, keeping a caterpillar until it matured into a butterfly? Did you like taking notes? Liking school is definitely not compulsory to being a Bird secondary.

Or do you remember making lots of friends, and being their peacekeeper? Alternatively, maybe you had certain projects you approached with constant dedication: a plant or garden you watered on a very regular schedule, perhaps. Maybe you practiced an instrument every day. Maybe keeping your room nice was important to you, so you always made your bed. Or that didn't matter, but you were super dependable when it came to something else you cared about.

3. Do you mostly learn/collect things because they're useful?

Bird secondaries often pick up things just out of interest. You've probably read about this already from the sortinghatchats article about Bird secondary.

4. What happens when one Burns?

First of all, yes, you can burn a model. Been there, done that.

I realize that not everybody burns their secondary as often as I do, but this is worth examining. Have you ever lost faith in your ability to get things done? Have you ever been so exhausted that you've had to switch methods? What did you do then?

Also, if you're Burned right now, you're going to have a really hard time answering your question. If you've Burned one of your two and you know which one it is, and they both feel about equal, then the Burned one is probably your actual secondary. (Don't worry, it can come back; here's an article by a double Bird who's spent time thinking about how to regain your confidence. Might be a bit Bird-oriented. If it really clicks, that might be a hint.)

Incidentally, that thing I just did? Reaching for something I've read to support a point, without thinking about it? Having a collection of stuff I've read to draw from? Very Bird secondary. Not the only way to be a Bird secondary, but an obvious one.

I'm a Bird secondary with a loud Badger model. I can't not be a Bird, even burned, because I'll keep doing stuff like that on automatic. I just won't value it as a means of solving problems or as an important part of building things that are worthy.

A burned Badger, in turn, might sigh and keep putting in work and effort even if they believe it won't do any good and it's just a silly habit.

5. Which one is easier?

This is an obvious question, but it kind of bypasses some Burn damage. You might think that one is more impressive, more worthy, more effective... but the other one? That's too easy, it's not "real work," it won't do anything. Doing things is hard, so if it's easy, it's not really getting anything done.

None of that is true. All the secondaries are hard. All of them take effort. The one that's yours will take less effort, because you're good at it. It doesn't make it less effective; quite the opposite. But if you're Burned you won't see that. Not everyone is like you, not everyone finds your toolset easy.

Though, I should point out that if you're thinking Bird isn't easy because you can learn stuff easily but not enough to be really good at it, and especially if this really upsets you... you're probably a burned Bird.

6. Which one feels like you?

Also obvious, and possibly more useful if you're a Lion primary and/or not Burned. If you are Burned, try to set aside any disdain you have for yourself.

Which one is more fun? Which one feels safe? Which one do you *want* to turn out to be? (This seems backwards, but it isn't for someone who isn't Burned. It could reverse if you are, though.)

If you're thinking "I'm this one but I'm shitty at it," you're Burned and that's probably your secondary. Hugs.

7. Is it possible you picked one up from someone close to you?

If someone you grew up with or are very close to now values one secondary or another, you're likely to lean towards it because of them. That doesn't mean it wasn't your secondary anyway; you could have picked up the other as a model for a variety of reasons! But it might be a clue about why you value one or both.

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I'll also tag @wisteria-lodge as someone who also has this secondary/model combination. You're really good at analyzing this kind of thing. Anything you want to add or correct?

You, anon (and anyone else who relates), are absolutely welcome to add on to this, share your experiences, offer advice, or go on long monologues about the system. I love reading them. Do not worry that you're talking about yourself too much. If you have questions directed at me, tag me or send another ask.

Hope this helps!

#sortinghatchats #ravenclaw secondary #hufflepuff secondary #bird secondary #badger secondary #shc models #btw you can use whichever terminology you're comfortable with #I'll copy you in the reply #no judgment either way

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