#it's not like I put these rants in some ship tags clearly wanting shippers to see how outraged I am lol | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

where-theres-smoak-2 · 3 years

Text

This Needs To Stop.

Trigger warning: Sensitive topics, p*dopilia, grooming, mental health and r*cism.

Ok so this is a bit of a rant so apologies for that, I usually try to stay away from sensitive or controversial topics but this is something that I am passionate about and that I think is important. Also I just want to say that I am in no way directing this to the entirety of the M*lina fandom, I know most are just enjoying their ship, but there are those few who are deliberately seeking out darklina posts or are cross tagging and coming into darklina’s asks and just generally harassing the fandom which sadly I am seeing happen more and more often. Also I do feel like this can apply to all fandoms not just exclusively shadow and bone/ grishaverse, its just this is the one I am experiencing it in right now.

I’ve seen antis call darkling/darklina fans many problematic things, delusional, mentally ill, ab*se apologists. They also like throwing around words like grooming and p*dophile. The thing that makes me angry about this is that they are taking sensitive topics, topics that many users have been effected by and they are using them to attack shippers merely for liking a character or ship that they don’t. What is even more frustrating is they seem to be throwing these words around without evening fully understanding what they even mean. For example the claim that the Darkling is a p*dophile because Alina is only 17 in the books. Well p*dophilia is a psychiatric disorder where adults are attracted to children and in order for it to be classed as p*dophilia the child involved has to be 13 or younger. A 16 year old can be diagnosed as a p*dophile if they become attracted to a child that is five years or more younger than them. So the relationship between the Darkling and Alina does not meet the criteria to be categorised this way as Alina is over the age of 13. As for it being a case of Alina is underaged, well, for one that depends on where in the world you are. This is based on imperial russia, in russia the age of consent is 16. This means that a 16 year old can have a sexual relationship with a 30 year old, a 70 year old or a 500 year old immortal and in a court of law it is still legal, whatever your own moral issues around age gaps might be. Even then it can be argued that it is irrelevant because, as with most historical literature where young girls marry older men, you cannot put modern day concepts onto them. Like I said this story is based on Imperial Russia, the life expectancy of a person in that time was around 30 years old. That means a 15 year old girl is already half way through her life, she is literally middle aged. It is at this point usually that girls started to prepare to get married and have children and yes sometimes it was to an older man because men were expected to provide for their wife and family which means having a house and job and means to support a family which an older man was more likely to have. My point is a 15-17 year old in say Imperial Russia is not the same as a 15-17 year old in modern day therefore you can’t take modern day laws and morals and place them onto that situation, it doesn’t work, they lived completely different lives. In Alina’s world, she is at the age where girls might get married and her being courted by a man of the general’s status would have been a normal occurrence, for her to have caught the attention of someone with his standing would have been considered very advantageous for her. I mean she literally gets two marriage proposals in book 2, where I believe she is still 17, and Nikolai is talking about how if she marries him it’ll be in name only and they can make Mal her guard so she can do the horizontal tango with him whenever she feels like it, so clearly the characters themselves feel like Alina is at an age where she can, one get married, and two be engaging in a sexual relationship.

So why does all of this matter? Well it matters because people reading these posts, asks and comments left on posts, may be victims of p*dophilia and grooming. A lot of these comments don’t have trigger warnings and when you are talking about sensitive and triggering topics like this you need to be careful and when you are talking about them without even really understanding them, and where they can’t apply to the characters you are talking about anyway, then you are potentially triggering someone needlessly because you didn’t need to be talking about it in the first place, I hope I am making sense there. I am not saying don’t talk about these subjects if you do think they are relevant, I am saying make sure you do the research, that you understand the subject you are addressing and when you do talk about it do it in a respectful manner, don’t throw it out there in an angry spew accompanied by alot of other derogatory words because that won’t help anyone.

Another subject I want to talk about is I am also seeing a lot of posts about how darklinas must be delusional or mentally unwell. This, again, is hurtful and harmful. Mental illness for a very long time has had a stigma around it, one that makes the person suffering from it feel weak and ashamed. There was always the attitude of if you are mentally ill then there is something wrong with you, or the attitude of oh just get over it, cheer up, think a different way. But mental illness isn’t just a state of emotion its often caused by hormonal imbalances and chemicals. Genetics can also play a part. There is nothing wrong with someone who is mentally ill their brain is just wired a different way. I also find it problematic when people throw around the word delusional. Maybe its nothing to you, just a word, but alot of mental illnesses have actual delusions as one of their symptoms. These can be scary and upsetting and are outside the control of the person experiencing them. Making the suggestion that liking a particular ships means you are delusional is potentially very triggering to those who do battle delusions and have fought to overcome them. The stigma around mental illness has prevented alot of people suffering from mental illness from seeking help out of shame or embarrassment or even out of fear of being judged and although I do feel like as a society we’ve become alot more open about mental health and alot more accepting there is still a long way to go. When antis start saying things like ‘I can’t believe people ship this, they must be mentally ill,’ or ‘they must be sick in the head’, or ‘if you like this ship than you must be delusional’ not only are they being incredibly prejudice against people who have mental illnesses but it is also so harmful because if there is someone reading that post who is struggling with their mental health and are considering seeking help then you’ve just made them feel more ashamed, more like there is something wrong with them which will make them even less likely to seek out help and as I said before there isn’t anything wrong with a person who has a mental health condition they are just different from you. That doesn’t give you the right to make them feel like they are less capable of deciding what they do or do not like or even what they should or should not like to be classified as a ‘normal’ person.

The most latest problematic statements I’ve seen have been those accusing Darklina’s of being r*cist. This one I found a bit funny in a it’s not funny kind of way. I just don’t think there is much logic behind this view point. I’m not sure I understand the antis reasoning here. Mostly because I’m pretty sure the majority of the Darklina fandom comes from the books where Mal is described as being a white, brown haired, blue eyed guy. Funnily enough the Darkling is described as being able to pass for Shu, though to be clear it isn’t confirmed that he is a POC, but out of the two in the books the Darkling is more likely to be a POC than Mal. On top of that whilst many darklina fans have made it clear they are not a fan of Mal in the books many have said they like the show version of Mal who, as we all know, the actor Archie is a POC. So by anti logic darklinas are all r*cist because they don’t like book Mal who is depicted as white but we do like show Mal who is a POC. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I do understand that there were some ‘fans’ who made inappropriate and r*cist comments to some cast members including Archie and I would never ever condone that no matter who I ship. But you also can’t condemn an entire fandom just because of the actions of a select few. I don’t judge all M*linas for that one fan who accused Ben of being a pr*dator and p*dophile because of his friendship with Jessie. Once again my point is r*cism is a serious topic and not something someone should use as a retort or comeback to someone not shipping your ship. When we use these words casually it makes it less likely that they’ll be taking seriously when they really do need to be taken seriously, when they really are relevant to what is happening. If we keep using them so casually then when we really do need to talk about them, when it really matters, people will just shrug and go ‘its just antis being antis.’

I think it is possible for people to like different things, to debate and analyse different relationships and characters and talk about what flaws they may have in a respectful manner. I wouldn’t say I am anti m*lina but at the same time there are things about them that I find problematic but when I talk about those things I hope I do so in a way that doesn’t demean those who do like the ship. I understand that people will have a different interpretation than me and whilst I might not understand where their thinking comes from or why they have a particular opinion I would never make the assumption that they are mentally unwell or make judgements on their character or morals. I try to think about the words I am writing. I know how easy it can be to just throw a word out there without thinking about it. I used to use the word delusional to describe fans of certain ships, but when I recognised how damaging and problematic that was I stopped and I changed my behaviour because it was never my intention to hurt others. I guess the main message I am trying to convey here is we need to be careful with our words they’re not as insignificant as we might think.

#darklina #anti anti #anti anon hate #anti anti darklina #excuse the rant

23 notes · View notes

eredins-a-king-aint-he · 3 years

Note

Hard agree with the tags on that recent reblog of The Hexer!Geralt and Dandelion

Dude yes!!! It’s 2am here so this may not be worded well but I have many strong opinions on this particular subject

so if you’re not into opinions on Geraskier this post isn’t for you

To preface this rant: I have not been in the fandom since day 1, but I’ve been here for at least two years, if not longer, so I got here before the show. During the time before the show, the content for the witcher fandom was pretty few and far between, but usually it was made by dedicated artists and writers whose content slapped/still slaps hard asf. People kinda shipped whoever, especially the more popular stuff like Geralt/Yen, Geralt/Eskel, Geralt/Regis, and so forth (no I do not care about Triss). There was also definitely some Geralt/dandelion as well, but it was mostly for book!Dandelion and Geralt. The fandom was pretty quiet.

Then the show happened and boy howdy

The geraskier shipper count went through the freakin roof, like the ship name used to be gerlion more commonly and then people who watched the show started calling it geraskier and that kinda stuck

My main beef with all this is that to me, it really feels like because of the actors appearances, a lot of people reduce Netflix!Geralt/jaskier (and kinda geraskier in general) to this very mainstream trope of the ✨Hot Gay Fantasy Couple✨, where one is an hot flamboyant twink and the other is a hot stoic hunk. When people do this to Geralt and Jaskier, it very much woobifies the characters and the ship to the point where it feels like both characters kinda lose their substance and their personality. I really dislike this tendency a lot, it feels bad.

I think Geralt and Jaskier totally have potential as a ship, but to me it’s really only when you dig into and learn about who they are as canon and canon-adjacent characters (aside from the Netflix show portrayals). Like in that gif set I tagged earlier. Their friendship is so strong in every iteration of the franchise (again excepting the Netflix show, which I do understand only covers the very beginning of their relationship at all so far but my point stands) and when people make them into this ✨Hot Gay Fantasy Couple✨ it disregards their canonical (and canonic-adjacent) genuine, complex personalities, feelings, and relationship.

I realize this take is pretty freaking judgmental, but it’s frustrating to see people putting cheesy trope stickers onto characters that are deep and really well and carefully fleshed out. I mean, come on, there’s literally an entire book series, a wholeass game series, and a very silly and funny tv series (from the 2000s I believe), all of which you can draw from to create your own versions of the characters. The stoic hunk/ flamboyant twink pairing exists in so many other places, where I’m sure there’s instances of it actually being canon (or it doesn’t erase who the characters are), so I guess I just don’t understand why people feel the need to erase characters’ personalities just to cram new people into those trope boxes.

End point being:

Geralt and Jaskier are a valid pairing when they’re not depicted as conventionally attractive. Like, especially when they’re not depicted as conventionally attractive, and their personalities are intact because they haven’t been reduced to just hot faces.

Give us book!geraskier, where Geralt canonically looks “unpleasant” and Dandelion is a blonde dandy who would risk his life for Geralt any day, and Geralt would do (and does) the same for him. Give us Hexer!geraskier, where Geralt looks like a regular, average-looking guy with white hair and Jaskier looks like a regular, average-looking guy with scruff but they are both clearly devoted to each other. Even give us game!geraskier, where yes, Geralt is more conventionally attractive, and so is Dandelion, but they still have a complex relationship and interactions, and Dandelion is always there for Geralt and vice versa.

There is an amazing amount of canonical and canonic-adjacent history and shipping potential between these two characters, so I personally feel that if you’re only shipping Geralt and Jaskier because the actors in the Netflix show are hot and you want that ✨Hot Gay Fantasy Twink/Hunk Couple✨, you should reexamine that.

#cedar speaks #opinions #rant #okay to rb #geraskier #the witcher #shipping #sorry for the long rant #i stg this has been killing me since the show came out and ive been dying to get it off my chest #thank you cliffsecord for giving me the opportunity #its 3:30am now sorry for any typos or mistakes #i know i talk in circles :/#let gay people have real genuine complex relationships man #please #asks #if you don't like my take please don't come after me im so tired #long post

51 notes · View notes

carry-on-every-neverland-magic · 3 years

Text

Slight Rant

You know, I’m never gonna forget how awful the destiel fandom made the afterglow of the finale for me and thousands of fans. Tagging all their posts with every tag available so that it was impossible to look up scenes and posts about the beautiful finale without seeing them upset over basically trolling themselves for 11 years. I have never once tagged any negative things with their ship. And I know there are probably some quiet fans of that ship that stay in their lane, and that’s cool. I’m bothered by the ones who are loud and obnoxious and have spread their toxicity and delusions everywhere.

I saw a Merlin post (my other main fandom) with a calendar of events and it looked pretty funny up until November and one of my faves Sir Leon had ‘Destiel?’ written all over him for being the month they ‘WEnT CaNon’ and I just felt heavy then because my dash was already full of horrible meta and hate for a finale that means the absolute world to me and I’m truly baffled and always will be why they watch Supernatural at all if they despise the heart and core of the show so much, Sam & Dean’s relationship.

I’m trying to focus on positive things and send out my vibes somehow to Jensen and Jared that the finale was everything I had wanted and that they created two of my favourite characters ever in Sam & Dean and I’m so grateful for their dedication.

But even that is drowned out by those toxic shippers. So I just wanna say to them, You are not fans of Jensen, certainly not Jared, or Supernatural, you don’t speak for LGBT+ community and your behaviour is bullying. I’ve felt so validated with Supernatural not focusing on romance but instead on an incredible platonic soulmate bond, and these people are not only being offensive to bisexuals with their awful reasonings on why Dean is bi because ‘he wore a specific colour once and ate cake’ but they are erasing the ace part of the community as well.

I kinda wish they would just be honest and say ‘yeah, we just wanted our ship to be canon, we’re not traumatised by Dean’s death because we’d be totally fine if he’d met Cas and kissed and ueggihetwghgb.’ Using real Mental health issues and LGBT+ as reasons why you’re upset is abhorrent. The show NEVER promised romance, a happy ending or anything beyond horror nor was it a beacon for how to live in the real world because newsflash IT’S SUPERNATURAL.

You were taken in by Misha and he rolled with it. You all fell too deep down the meta hole. Respect Jensen. Not liking a ship is okay. It doesn’t get any deeper than that.

Again, not addressing this to EVERY person that may like that ship, if you stay in your lane, in fanon, tag correctly, don’t push hate/agendas and don’t insist it’s canon, that is absolutely cool. But again I feel TIRED. How can they waste so much energy on something that is clearly not for them and never was?

And yeah it is super tempting to tag things with their ship, to put all my love for J2 and Sam & Dean in their tags. But I won’t because I won’t stoop to their level. Although I’m not stopping anyone lol ;) Instead I’ll keep being as positive as I can, reblog all the beautiful Sam & Dean things on all my blogs and know that WE the fans get it, we always did and the show, that finale, was for us.

#anti destiel #spn fandom wank #ha I better not even tag this as spn #anti misha #anti misha collins #wank for ts #also if you have to reach so hard in your meta that your arms fall off and your head explodes #then maybe its because it's all crap #also its quite telling because I have lost so many followers on my main the more sam and dean posts I make #and I'm just like...okay you're just missing out basically :p

32 notes · View notes

petitommo · 3 years

Text

re: (not so) small rant about Theo, Liam and season six of Teen Wolf

(original post by @livingbythewords, you can find it linked here. i originally wanted to reply to the post, but replies are turned off. i’d reblog it, but it’s pretty long, so i wanted people to get to choose whether or not they wanted to read it...)

i saw this post in the liam tag when i woke up yesterday, and i kept sporadically thinking about it and discussing it with people (and in my own head), and i definitely have some thoughts about it, not gonna lie... still, as i said, absolutely feel free to ignore this if this ain’t your cup of tea at all, but if you wanna hear my thoughts about 1. livingforthewords’ post and 2. theo, liam and season six of teen wolf, feel free to look under the line break :)

(i’ll be posting some of the lines from the original post for context to what i’m saying, but if you do wanna read my answer, i recommend reading the original post as well! let me also preface this by saying this is in no way meant as hate towards the creator, sceo as a ship, or scott mccall as a character. i found some parts of this post had traces of what i’d consider to be a harmful way of thinking about fandom and shipping, and i wanted to adress it.)

the post mentions early one that liam brings theo back to use him, and that as soon as he finds out theo no longer has josh and tracy’s abilites, he wants to send him back. that the only reason he doesn’t is because theo remembers stiles. with this, you say that you see thiam shippers claim that liam does it from the goodness of his heart.

personally, i’ve never seen claims that that was the reason liam did it. i have, however, seen (and personally think this myself) that theo coming back from the hell he’s been put in by the hands of liam, might make theo quick to develop a bond or feeling of gratitude towards liam. there’s no doubt in my mind that theo understands why liam did it — but even then, it still got him out of there. in canon, no other pack member but liam even entertained the idea of getting theo back — i think theo is very aware of this, as well — which in itself automatically makes liam the safest pack member for theo to latch onto, from the get go.

Liam distrusts and despises Theo – and it never changes throughout the course of the show.

again, with the basis of liam and theo’s developing aquaintance in season six (heavily conveyed through non verbal communication - both in the form of touches/glances/body language and the things written between the lines; the things not specifically worded, but definitely said through their dialogue), there’s a lot that can be up for interpretation.

when i watched the show, i saw two characters who, yes, clearly had a shared hatred towards each other, learn how to work together and develop a tentative trust (that only grew throughout the season). i saw two characters that shouldn’t work together, work together insanely well, to the point where no verbal communication was strictly necessary.

my point is, thiam as a ship is heavily influenced by interpretation of what you see in their dynamic, and i find it troublesome that you look at other people’s interpretation and publicly say;

However, shipping someone and having fun with it is not the same as twisting into knots to try to prove that canon supports something, when it doesn’t.

especially when you follow this up by saying;

Yes, there is a person who acknowledges that Theo has changed. Who trusts and supports him even when they have no reason to. Who is always there for him and tries to treat him fairly even after being incredibly hurt and betrayed.

But that person isn’t Liam.

because you and i watched the same show, and we clearly have majorly different interpretations of season six; of theo’s relationship with people post-hell; of liam dunbar as a character.

however, i am not gonna claim that you’re wrong, and i’m right. your interpretation is entirely different from mine — and yes, based on what i saw, i do personally think you’re wrong, but here’s the thing; i understand that interpretation of this is just that; interpretation. theo isn’t canonically linked with anyone, therefore i cannot say that thiam is right and sceo is wrong — even as that’s my personal view of it.

back to the theo and liam and thiam shippers adressed in this post;

i want to preface my response to this with the fact that i myself have been/are in healthy BDSM dynamics. i have also jokingly said that theo ‘probably enjoyed it’. i have online friends who have joked about theo enjoying it. and here’s the thing; none of the people i know seriously think theo, in that exact setting, enjoyed it.

a great thing about fandom and shipping is the exploration and discovery of one’s own sexuality. we often talk about it openly; we discuss it with people, we’re ‘horny on main’, we learn from fellow shippers, we read fanfiction. we joke around with stuff.

there’s no doubt in my mind that people do not think theo raeken got pulled back from hell, chained up and forced to follow liam and hayden around, and actually enjoyed it at that moment. however, can i personally see theo as a character that would enjoy being chained up in other situations? yes. a lot of us do. and so we joke about it.

joking about certain aspects of a BDSM relationship when you’re looking at/reblogging things from canon does not undermine how important a proper and healthy BDSM dynamic is.

the post also touches on theo being a traumatized kid with unhealthy coping mechanisms. this is, without a doubt, the core of theo as a character. however, by putting it in the context of why it’s wrong to joke about him being a sub/rope bunny, feels so misplaced to me. a lot of kinks develop from the trauma we have (talking from experience). a lot of kinks develop at — seemingly — random (talking from experience). being traumatized doesn’t automatically mean we develop kinks, sure, but it also doesn’t mean we do not develop kinks.

without a doubt - chaining him up and dragging him behind them was not a kind thing to do; i don’t think anyone disagrees with that. but at the end of the day, these are characters. theo is a character we’ve barely gotten to know, especially post-hell theo, so he develops in our mind, we have headcanons, we think of personality traits that weren’t shown in canon. some of those pertain to his sexuality, and that’s okay.

this also pertains to your gripe with people looking at canonical depictions of thiam and seeing it as love. again, even in the thiam shipping part of fandom, we have majorly different interpretations of certain scenes, and that’s okay. i’ve touched upon the importance of acknowledging that thiam as a canonically hinted at couple is all up for personal interpretation of their canonical depiction; this also means that people will see things very differently.

the original post was mainly aimed at theo and liam as a ship, so i won’t get into the comments about liam as a character that much, but i will say this;

even you yourself mention that liam absolutely has reason to resent theo. but, you go on to claim that liam doesn’t have as much reason for resentment as other characters.

liam might not have been personally wronged by theo in season five as much as other characters, i will agree with that. but, he did watch theo’s actions and influence in the things done to mason, to hayden, to scott. all people he loved. this, in itself, is reason enough to build resentment towards a person.

it’s also important to remember that theo lessened liam in his mind to the beta with anger issues, stripped away every complex part of liam and simplified him into this one trait that liam himself has struggled with and tried to distance himself away from.

liam struggling with being depicted as a monster — pre supernatural; because of IED, supernatural; as a werewolf — has been canonically shown so many times. it’s gotten us the line of «you’re not a monster. you’re a werewolf, like me.». we’ve been showed, time and time again, that liam has a complexity within him that is constantly undermined — by brett, by stiles, and yes; by season 5 theo.

sadly, i also see liam simplified and put into the box of beta with anger issues by the fandom. this also, from what i’ve read on your blog and from statements about liam in this post, includes you.

how does that change in season six? let’s get back to the claim at the start of this post; of thism shippers claiming liam is the only one who trusts and supports theo, and look at it this way; theo — previous homicidal maniac out to ruin the pack (put simply; we’re both theo apologists, we know there’s more to him than that) — is one of the first people to look at liam’s anger and not let it be his only character trait.

the post mentions glances in the truck scene; this is what the truck scene (in my mind) is really about. theo acknowledges — even if not explicitly stated — that the anuk-ite’s ability to raise fear in people, raises anger in liam. he sees that liam’s anger is a direct consequence of the anuk-ite; he sees that the fear instilled in liam translates into anger; because of IED. this lets liam be a character that has IED, instead of just liam - the angry character.

this, again, is my interpretation of this scene. you might not have seen it that way. once again proving that this is a ship based on interpretation.

claiming that interpreting scenes is twisting canon until it fits your idea of it, is such a harmful way of looking at shipping. i have never interpreted anything romantic between scott and theo in canon, and could, in turn, claim that you twist canon until it fits what you want. but i’m not going to, because your interpretation of things doesn’t have to fit mine.

you can’t write a rant about thiam as a ship, state that you don’t want to tell anyone who to ship and that certain ships are wrong, and then undermine every interpretation anyone has had about liam and theo as a ship.

we’ve all seen the same season of teen wolf, we’ve all seen the exact same scenes (there are no version of the show you watched); but we’re all very different people. we interpret things very differently.

AND THAT IS OKAY.

do not undermine people’s ship. if you hate thiam, just stay away from it. don’t expose yourself to it. ignore it for all it’s worth.

it’s that easy.

#feel free to ignore this ppl :)#just had to get it off my chest #thiam meta #of some sorts?

18 notes · View notes

shamelessllamapeanutthing · 4 years

Text

Ships and Feels about them

HUGE self-indulgent post but my brain is frozen and I need to get the juices flowing so I can start studying, because if I don’t get into the college I want I just might have to kill myself and then y’all can say bye-bye to your fav fics by your majesty.

YoruSoi- status: worSHIPPING (geddit? XD) them like the goddesses they are

I regularly play Wicked Ones by Dorothy and just imagine these two tag-teaming against their opponents, like the crazy, badass, ninja lesbians they are. It fucking gives me goosebumps and makes me blush like I am imagining them rawing each other instead. I am a big time SUCKER for powerful, cut-throat wlw. They make me feel powerful by extension, and my devotion for these two is completely unparalleled.

VictUuri- status: will protect them with my life

First of all, I love how layered and interesting they are. I can think about this show and this ship for hours and hours on end ( @feastingonvicturi will vouch for that). I naturally gravitate towards angsty ships and writing (because I am a weird sado-maso cross, what can I say) except for these two fluffy bastards. I had been putting off watching YOI because of the weird things I had read about ‘yaoi’ animes (IK YOI is not yaoi, now) till someone told me how pure and deep their love for each other was and welp, here we are.

RenRuki- status: comfort ship I’ll defend till death

It was one of my first ships and even as I multi-shipper, I always had a preference for them. Childhood-friends-to-lovers trope tugs on my heartstrings like little else and Renji’s devotion towards Rukia warms my heart. I hear them in nearly every song, imagine them in every scenario I read or write about and even though I have multiple ships I adore involving Rukia and Renji both, the two together is everything to me. (Presently obsessed with the amazing hcs and art by @recurring-polynya you might wanna check them out)

KaiRay- status: heart is taking a break, but remains firmly attached

I got into Beyblade BECAUSE of this ship, because of the moments these two shared in V-Force that I caught glimpses of when my younger siblings were watching the show. I love Kai and Ray’s dynamic and I guess what attracts me the most to this ship is the fact that as a teenager I was exactly like Kai and had my own personal Ray who got me through the worst in life. I love the sense of sweet nostalgia this couple brings me and I believe they are perfect for each other.

MariahEmily- status: coffee shop AU, anyone?

I was HUGE on MariahxRay but strong, stylish, kinda bitchy, dumb thot falling for the highly educated and fierce lady boss she doesn’t really know how to approach is another one of my favourite tropes, (see: PansMione, down under). I saw them interact and due to personal reasons my brain rejects petty rivalry between girls (because we’re all tired of that, children, be honest) and immediately tries to fix it in fanon. ( @trashyartz and her beautiful drawings had a lot to do with fanning these flames.)

ShunUki- status: want them to adopt me

Need I say more? No, but I wanna. I love the steady, secure vibes of this ship. This is the one ship I physically can’t write angsty shit about because of the level of understanding and sense of comfort these two share. They give me kind and strong dad vibes and I have emotionally been an orphan since I was in my early teens so.

WolfStar- status: they’re canon, JKR can suck my toes

Fucking TERF

Listen, listen, have you been listening? I mentioned I am a sucker for angst, right? Are you looking at the angst potential here, cause wow. What originally attracted me to this ship was the Chemistry between the two, cause it’s undeniable. You can NOT imagine Maurauders’ Era without imaging these two pining over each other. It’s impossible.

PansMione- status: toxic and problematic, but oh so hot

I got on this ship because I was craving some quality wlw ships. You guys’ I can not explain to you how often female characters in shows and books do not pass the Bechdel test and I stumbled on some gorgeous PansMione art and just fell in love. IK this ship is hella problematic, but I am firm on my stance that the baby Slytherins deserve a redemption arc.

Can you imagine these two after Pansy realises everything she did wrong and vows to be better? I imagine Hermione stumbling on a hurt and confused Pansy in year 8, who can’t stop her tears from flowing and is so ashamed of herself for that. She is feeling guilty and resisting the emotion with everything she possesses because the world she’d always known has crumbled down around her and everything she believed in has now been proven to be wrong.

She lashes out at Hermione because how dare that smart, gorgeous, courageous girl also be everything Pansy once thought she was? How dare she, a muggleborn, unravel the complicated threads of the wizard world so quickly, so efficiently, and clearly see what Pansy never could? Pansy is hurt and guilty and angry and she hates the fact that fucking Granger of all people has now witnessed her crying.

She feels lost and her anger only rages louder when Hermione doesn’t gloat or belittle her, she doesn’t say anything.

(Why is this turning into a ficlet, WHAT)

Anyways, Pansy gets over herself and she and Hermione get together and oh my god, imagine them then. Smart, powerful, righteous Hermione taking the fucking Wizarding World by a storm every single day with her sexy, vivacious, clever Pansy by her side. They’d be unstoppable and they’d love each other something fierce. It would show in the way they look at each other, with a sense of victory, not only over Voldemort but over the entire Wizarding society that had done everything it could to tear them apart, and ultimately failed.

(BONUS: Imagine Ron and Harry being utter dorks when they go to Pride parades with Hermione and let the image cleanse your skin and soul. @feastingonvicturi @trashyartz one of you (or both?) needs to collab with me so I can write a fix it fic for these two, please. I will pledge my soul to the devil to be used and abused as per Trashy’s whims in exchange. Taura will do it cause she’s my best friend and loves me more than I deserve to be loved.)

(In conclusion, I adore every single one of these ships and am willing to slice a bitch’s throat to protect their honour. Except for YoruSoi, they are fictional characters IK but I am convinced they do not need anybody’s protection, least of all this dumb fuck’s and just might laugh at the very idea.)

Also, feel free to reblog or comment with rants about your own ships even if they go directly against mine. More love to you if you expand on the ships I mentioned here myself. Tell me about your poison of choice, go ahead.

But if any one of you dares to send hate to any of my ships, please know that I am something of a God in my own capacity and will smite you with my preferred weapon of choice i.e. blindness in the face of adorable puppies or kittens (in pictures, videos, art, real life or otherwise). Beware. Let people love what they love.

#my ships #Bleach #Yuri!!! on Ice #Harry Potter #beyblade #YoruSoi #victuuri #renruki #kairay #mariahxemily #shunuki #wolfstar #pansmione

67 notes · View notes

seyaryminamoto · 4 years

Note

hii, can you tell me more about why you’re anti sukka?

... Okay, now, that’s an inaccurate statement.

As per current internet terminology, I’m not ANTI Sukka. These days, an anti is someone who obsesses with the ships they hate, and spends an insane amount of time harassing fans of the ship, attacking other shippers, making content to disparage the ship and pretending they’re on some sort of superior moral high ground by doing all these things. While I’ve made occasional posts on why I don’t ship Sukka, I don’t think I’ve made any since AGES ago. I don’t get in the way of anyone who does ship it and I wouldn’t even say I HATE the ship. In truth, I just don’t care for it. I won’t read or look for content about it, but that’s not the same as hating a ship, let alone the same as harrassing its shippers: so I’m not anti-Sukka, I just don’t ship Sukka.

Now, since your question’s intent was to figure out why don’t I ship it...

... Warning: long, long essay that won’t sit well with any hardcore Sukka shippers right under the cut. I would be using a truncated term like su*ka throughout the whole post if only the anon hadn’t already used the actual ship name, but regrettably, it’s likely to show up in your tags all the same. I am sorry, preemptively, if it does: please ignore it for your own good and go on your merry way without letting me ruin your day.

I haven’t talked about this for ages tbh. But anyways, here we go.

When I watched The Warriors of Kyoshi for the first time, I actually liked Suki plenty. I liked her initial conflict and chemistry with Sokka, though I wasn’t big on how she made him wear the Kyoshi Warriors uniform when it clearly made him uncomfortable, but all in all, I liked how their relationship had shaped up at that point and I even looked forward to Suki returning in future episodes.

On my first watch of ATLA, I seriously saw nothing wrong in Sukka. I didn’t think a lot of things through during that first time I watched the show, I was just binging the whole thing like a maniac (like a lot of people are doing at the time), so I found their relationship perfectly acceptable as it was, for the show I was watching.

And then later rewatches, even before the Sokkla bug bit me as hard as it has, I realized maybe that wasn’t entirely true.

One of the things I really, REALLY don’t like about Sukka to this day is how unequal their relationship is in terms of how the characters are written in the show. Basically, the same complaint I have about Asami in LOK applies to Suki ever since she reappears in Book 2, but ESPECIALLY in Book 3: her character ends up revolving almost exclusively around Sokka.

Meanwhile, Sokka appears to forget about her surprisingly often and easily.

Instance #1: there’s no sign of Sokka holding a torch for Suki when he first develops a crush on Yue. Implying that, while Suki impressed him, his feelings for her weren’t necessarily romantic despite she outright kissed his cheek... whereas he is crushing, HARD, on Yue. In contrast, Suki was so affected by Team Avatar’s visit to her island that she took off to help people around the world to follow their example. Sokka (and his friends) have a huge impact on Suki’s life... whereas Suki’s impact, sure, taught Sokka to set aside his sexism, but he’s never even seen reflecting on how much Suki has changed him because of this? Neither is Katara portrayed mentioning how much nicer he became after meeting Suki? There’s not a single sign through the rest of the season of how much Suki has meant for Sokka, whether as a teacher, friend or potential love interest.

Instance #2: after initially hesitating to kiss Suki in the Serpent’s Pass, Sokka finally kisses her once they’re about to part ways before she returns to the Kyoshi Warriors. It’s soooo very romantic... until, a mere episode later, Ty Lee openly flirts with Sokka and, instead of reacting as he does later in the season (with a comment along the lines of ”Uh, I’m with someone else”), Sokka merely WAVES AND SMILES. I... don’t even understand why the writers did this. They spent the entire season featuring Sokka avoiding Ty Lee, or being fully hostile with her, but somehow RIGHT AFTER establishing his relationship with Suki, he’s shown behaving like this? It doesn’t make any sense to me. It basically says either he’s not taking his relationship with Suki all that seriously, or he’s just blatantly disloyal, and considering how devoted he was to Yue, I can’t bring myself to believe it’s the second thing. A writing oversight? Eh...

Instance #3: when Toph talks about the moon turning mean, Sokka rages and rants about how nice the moon is. Why do I bring this up? Because Yue is out of reach. Yue is gone: he still feels the need to defend her from someone who isn’t really insulting her despite that. MEANWHILE... Suki’s fate, at the time, is unknown. Sokka has no idea if Azula captured her, left her for dead, tossed her in a river, sold her to a traveling circus...? He doesn’t. He seriously doesn’t. He can’t KNOW what Azula did because the last thing he knew, Mai and Ty Lee were masquerading as Kyoshi Warriors. Implying them, and their leader, did something to the group his girlfriend was part of. And yet, for an entire season finale AND the first half of Book 3, Sokka betrays zero intentions of wanting to discover what happened with Suki, or guilt about not being able to save her UNTIL AZULA BRINGS HER UP. I know it’s very sad for Sukka fans to see Sokka crying over Suki as he did when Azula taunts him... but why haven’t we seen the slightest sign of how affected he is by Suki’s presumed capture/murder/whatever he was imagining happening to her, when Book 2 features Sokka suffering over failing Yue in the Swamp, as well as rejecting Suki initially over guilt because of his lingering feelings for Yue, paired with fear of failing to protect those he cares about? And then in Book 3 he’s even standing up to Toph when she makes a careless comment about the moon spirit...? Why is it so easy to bring up Yue, but not Suki? Is this really just another writing oversight? So we’ve had TWO writing oversights about this relationship already, both of which suggest Suki is barely on Sokka’s mind at all? Is this oversight... or accidental characterization? :’)

Instance #4: Sokka and Zuko travel to the Boiling Rock. Sokka is determined to save his father. It’s a really cool, absolutely acceptable, very important decision for his character... but here’s the kicker: Sokka knows now, at this point, that Suki might still be alive and a prisoner of the Fire Nation. Azula outright said Suki had been WAITING FOR HIM AND GAVE UP BECAUSE HE NEVER CAME. This is what drives him to tears and to shout at Azula while wasting time during the Eclipse! :’D And then? Then he goes to Zuko, to ask him about Fire Nation prisons, and my gullible, first-watch self thought “oh, he wants to save Suki now that Azula said she’s alive! :D” ... only for his intent to be exclusively about his father. I’m not saying it’s WRONG for Sokka to privilege Hakoda over Suki, I mean, he is his father and Sokka really cares about family. It’s one of his main priorities, always has been. But isn’t it WEIRD that after Azula taunted him SO BAD about failing Suki, after saying Suki GAVE UP ON HIM, Sokka makes zero moves to find out if she might be alive and within reach? He could ask Zuko about her, maybe, seeing as he was on Azula’s side in Ba Sing Se and may have known a thing or two about any prisoners she captured in the Earth Kingdom? Sokka could have mentioned he wants to save BOTH Hakoda and Suki, and it doesn’t harm the story in the least for him to say something like that. It doesn’t make his efforts for Hakoda any lesser, and it shows Suki is a priority for him too... But no. Instead let’s feature him bumping into Suki by sheer luck, because that’s truly what it was, and instead of feeling any guilt for not helping her sooner, he’s just lovestruck and attempting to put moves on her when she doesn’t even know who he is yet. Super funny. Super romantic. Super lacking and I can’t understand why, WHY, someone would ever think this is how to write a quality romantic relationship?

Instance #5: connected to instance #4, actually. When traveling to the Boiling Rock, Sokka and Zuko have an awkward conversation. During this awkward conversation, Sokka asks Zuko if there was anything he left behind in the Fire Nation that he might have missed. Zuko smiles and talks about Mai. Sokka is surprised that the “gloomy girl who sighs a lot” was his girlfriend, and Zuko looks genuinely fond of her as he smiles and thinks of her. And then Sokka brings up his own romantic experience... WITH YUE. Instead of bringing up the girl who taught him girls can fight too, instead of bringing up the girl he hasn’t been able to save yet, the girl who MIGHT BE in the prison he’s headed towards, Sokka brings up the girl he absolutely CAN’T save anymore. He brings up the girl whose death most clearly scarred him, deeply, and I’m not trying to lessen the blow Yue’s sacrifice takes on Sokka... but Suki literally, LITERALLY, has something to do with the plot of this very episode? While “My girlfriend turned into the moon” “That’s rough, buddy” is a well-loved hilarious scene and line, I’d have sacrificed that IN A HEARTBEAT if the writers had thought to feature Sokka talking about Suki instead. He could’ve said Azula took her! He literally KNOWS this now, for a fact! Zuko could’ve told him “Hey, maybe she’s in the Boiling Rock too!”, and the plot of the episode wouldn’t have changed in the slightest, beyond featuring Sokka actively looking for BOTH Hakoda and Suki! But no. Again, no. Again, the writers choose to privilege Sokka’s bond with Yue over Suki. With Hakoda over Suki. With anyone else over Suki.

... whlie Suki, most obviously, has no one else she cares about more than Sokka. Why? Because she hasn’t even had enough screentime to establish any other significant relationships, and after the Boiling Rock, she doesn’t establish them anyways.

This causes Suki to feel like a Sokka satellite: SHE revolves around HIM. But Sokka? Sokka doesn’t revolve around Suki IN THE LEAST. Would it be healthy for him to be completely devoted and crazy over Suki to the point of disregarding his ties with other people over her? Hell, no! But it’s not healthy to feature Suki as good as doing that for Sokka either! :’D Suki doesn’t even have a solid, established friendship with any of the other Gaang members. She has POTENTIAL for it, but ever since she joins the Gaang she is most frequently shown interacting with Sokka and only on occasion with the others, but in no memorable, meaningful way with anyone but Sokka. She even joins Katara while searching for Aang in Sozin’s Comet, and we don’t see the slightest sign of unique, important bonding between them. She saved Toph from drowning once, found out Toph has a crush on the same boy she likes, and it’d have been interesting if she, for instance, had refrained from seeking an openly romantic relationship with Sokka out of respect for Toph’s feelings? They could’ve had a conversation about it? With Toph telling her to go for it, maybe, because Sokka liked her too? Suki saying she doesn’t want to hurt her? A perfectly nice bonding situation for these two girls, showing quite a lot of respect between them, as well as respect for their personal relationships with Sokka?

But no. That doesn’t happen.

The second important character Suki bonds most with is Zuko, and in the show, it’s exclusively because they’re with Sokka in the Boiling Rock. Once that’s over you can’t really say there’s any relevant, personal dynamics between them in the show. Heck, Suki tells him she wants a rematch with Azula in the Boiling Rock: Zuko could have offered her a chance to come with him to the Fire Nation and get that rematch, instead of offering it to Katara :’D Why doesn’t he? Because they DID take their time to establish a relationship between Zuko and Katara, even derrailing the show for a whole episode to ensure they would convince Katara to forgive Zuko for all the wrong he did, in the most absurd and contradictory situation possible. Meanwhile, a simple “sorry” from Zuko is enough for Suki to stop holding a grudge. You absolutely CAN interpret this as Suki not being the type to hold a grudge! Which, great! But you also CAN interpret this as the writers being way too lazy to give Suki as much time to forgive Zuko as she could have/should have needed. And sadly, while story-wise I’ll choose to read it the first way, I think, realistically, what happened was the second thing instead.

Suki doesn’t even have a meaningful relationship with Aang. AANG. I’m not saying she should have been his best friend, but Oyaji outright says “you kids had a big impact on her”. It’s PLURAL. It’s not supposed to mean “Sokka had a big impact on her”. Hell, Aang is Kyoshi’s PAST LIFE. Kyoshi is, in all likelihood, Suki’s hero! :’D And yet... nothing. Not even featuring Suki as a Kyoshi fangirl who knows all sorts of random facts about her, such as her favorite foods or the habits she enjoyed most, and Aang saying “oh hey, I like doing that too!”, so that they both could rejoice in this unique, curious shared common ground!

Nay. Nothing. Literally nothing. Her only serious, meaningful relationship is with Sokka... and like I said, whenever Sokka is asked about meaningful relationships with girls, his brain goes “Yue”, immediately, even when the plot would benefit from him saying “Suki” at least ONCE. He’ll sit out at night watching the moon, but he can’t be bothered to bring up how frustrating it is for Azula to have captured Suki whether before or after the Invasion. Yes, Sokka is shown to be the kind of guy who grieves quietly: why is it so much easier, then, to see his quiet grieving for Yue than his concern for Suki?

The truth is, it’s a writing shortcoming. It’s not even something I’d blame on Sokka’s character because, as I always have said, his relationship with Yue really highlights what a wonderful boyfriend he can be when he’s seriously interested in someone. He takes Yue out on dates, gives her gifts, fights for her people, fights the fiancé who only objectifies her, tries to protect her from fulfilling a destiny that will kill her? This is all top-tier romance hero behavior. It is. Why the hell isn’t this behavior seen with Suki too?

It’s not a matter of Suki being a warrior rather than a Princess so she doesn’t need him to act the same way he did with Yue: the show outright, literally, explicitly states Suki is a girl and a warrior, implying Sokka could easily enough woo her the same way he does with Yue, if he cared to. But he doesn’t. It’s Suki with the initiative when their actual romantic relationship begins, and later on Sokka can forget Suki is his girlfriend whenever it suits his fancy, to absolutely no consequences.

So... does this mean, then, that Sokka, in canon, only tries really hard when he’s chasing after someone he can’t be with? That he slacks off and drops the ball when the girl is already his? Well, that’s... not good. Not healthy. Not pretty.

This doesn’t mean that there’s nothing good about Sukka altogether, there are a few things about the ship that aren’t bad... but even then, scenes like “Sokka makes a gross sand sculpture and says it’s Suki” aren’t really that heartwarming to me. It’s not only a comedic relief scene that tries to feature these two as super romantic dorks... but it only reinforces one of the main shortcomings in this relationship for me:

Sokka doesn’t even have to TRY.

He doesn’t. He can make a gross-looking statue, say it’s Suki, and she won’t even make suggestions to improve it? She just says it’s perfect this way. It’s basically the kind of coddling Ursa did with Zuko when Zuko messed up in his firebending display and Ursa said it was wonderful. In the case of a couple, it feels like a mix of cute and condescending? Suki accepts Sokka as he is, sure, so she doesn’t challenge him, doesn’t try to make him do better, he doesn’t need to improve his work... because she’s fine with whatever she gets from him.

This is complacency. It’s a relationship neither one needs to make efforts for. Suki will always accept Sokka’s occasional romantic gestures, even if he leaves so much to be desired in his relationship with her, as opposed to his relationship with Yue. And I’m not saying Sokka DOESN’T care about Suki, but he doesn’t need to do better with her, and while that’s just what Sokka may think he wants/needs for the future, in truth, that’s not what makes his character thrive.

What makes Sokka’s character grow amazingly is CHALLENGE. And I don’t mean that he needs a girlfriend difficult to be with and out of reach (like Yue): I mean that, when faced with a love interest who keeps him on his toes and makes him continue pushing his boundaries, Sokka would genuinely develop and grow further as a man, warrior, leader and love interest. Look at how fast he develops into a quality swordsman while training with Piandao: why? Because it was a challenge. Because it was an opportunity to hone his skills. Because he had to rise up to prove himself, and HE DOES. In the Invasion? He feels he can’t measure up to Hakoda, but in the end? He winds up LEADING the whole operation. People FLOCK to him as he draws out the battle plans and strategies they’ll follow so they can figure out where Ozai is and take him out before the eclipse ends. Right after thinking he couldn’t do it, when the situation DEMANDED that he stepped up, he did and he goddamn EXCELLED at it, proving himself well above these challenges indeed.

THESE are the moments where his character shines the brightest. And a relationship that wasn’t so complacent would do this kind of thing for Sokka’s character just as well: a challenging relationship would promote his GROWTH. He wouldn’t be stunted in simplicity with someone who doesn’t give up on him when he spends MONTHS disregarding her circumstances. Because the truth is, I see Sokka as an overachiever in denial: he wants to go the extra mile, to do things no one else has done before, but because he’s stuck in a world where he doesn’t have the crazy powers his friends do, he wrongfully assumes they’re the ones who’ll do amazing things and he’ll just lag behind them, so he figures it’s better not to bother trying to stand out at all. Yet look at him, figuring out the perfect plan to take down Ozai’s fleet: look at him, making such an impression on Piandao, epic swordmaster, that Piandao even says “If you stay on this path, I know that one day you will become an even greater master than I am.”

Sokka has incredible, extraordinary potential as a character. He has huuuuge anxieties and sources of anguish and insecurities, and those only make his potential greater. He has flaws that can be worked on, there’s so much room for growth...

And the true reason I can’t support Sukka, on Sokka’s end, is because I don’t think that relationship will encourage him to grow any further.

Meanwhile, I can’t support it on Suki’s end because I don’t think she deserves to be an afterthought for a boyfriend who has so much going on in his life that she’s a secondary or even tertiary thing in his life unless she’s right in front of him. And even when he doesn’t have that much going on (meaning, during the first FOUR comic trilogies), he’s shown traveling the world with his friends instead of spending time with her. And heck, where Suki SHOULD have arrived in the South Pole with Zuko as his guard during North and South, Suki doesn’t show up at all. Why? Seriously, what sort of logic explains that the Fire Lord’s appointed BODYGUARD would stay behind in the Fire Nation while Zuko travels halfway across the world, with hell knows how many dangers ahead? If she HAD gone with Zuko, she would’ve had a chance to spend more time with Sokka and it’d even be a point in Sukka’s favor. But that doesn’t happen. To make matters even worse, Sokka doesn’t even tell Aang to say hi to Suki for him when Aang leaves to the Fire Nation by himself in Smoke and Shadow? There are TWO WHOLE PANELS as Aang takes off on Appa with NO DIALOGUE. Sokka calling after Aang to ask him to say hi to Suki literally would’ve fit PERFECTLY, right there! But no. Suki doesn’t even get that much from her boyfriend.

Seriously, it’s NOT THAT HARD to show a healthy long-distance relationship. It’s not that difficult to feature Suki and Sokka longing to see each other but having too much going on to meet up. But that’s not what we got with Sukka, not in the comics, not in the show. Fans ARE free to believe otherwise, and I’m not going to trample on someone who thinks we just conveniently never get to see the healthiest aspects of their very positive relationship... but there’s no genuine evidence to back up this belief. It’s just wishful thinking and hoping that things are far better behind the scenes than what we’re genuinely shown.

Again... I blame the writing. Especially seeing as Yang’s writing of Sokka is DISMAL. But it doesn’t erase what’s already there. It doesn’t do away with the very obvious problems in this relationship.

The positive moments Sukka gets are offset, for me, by all the negatives. The meaningful relationship they could have developed feels underdeveloped instead, something we should take for granted is there and nothing more. And even those positive moments and episodes aren’t necessarily that positive?

In particular, I point to The Ember Island Players: there are soooooo many messed up things about Sukka in this episode I have no idea how people aren’t more bothered by them. First of all: the episode features Sokka crying about Yue’s staged death scene, and Suki is shown amused, saying she had no idea Sokka had made out with the moon spirit. First of all: SOKKA DIDN’T TELL SUKI ABOUT YUE. Her initial reaction here is amusement, for some reason...? Yet as we already saw that there’s no real bad blood between her and Toph despite she, of all people, KNOWS Toph has a crush on the same guy she likes, there’s no real reason to think Suki would behave like a jealous fiend if she knew Sokka had a relationship with someone else before her. Yet Sokka doesn’t tell her about it: this implies he either doesn’t trust her, or doesn’t know her well enough to realize she WON’T be a jealous fiend, and outright assumes she will be one because of mistaken preconceptions about how relationships work.

At this point, Sokka and Suki have been officially together since Book 2, episode 12. Book 2 happens in spring. Book 3′s conclusion is at the end of summer. This means Sokka has had about four-five months of a relationship with Suki. Out of which, yes, she spent the majority of those months in prison :’D but then he rescued her! And... apparently proceeded not to tell her about his experiences while fighting in the war? To not share his biggest failure to protect someone he cared about? So... to NOT open up to Suki about anything that genuinely mattered?

Considering he’s willing to snap at Toph when she brings up the moon could be “mean”, considering he’s willing to tell Zuko that his first girlfriend turned into the moon when they’re only starting to trust each other... this unwillingness to tell Suki about Yue feels OFF. It doesn’t make any sense. His relationship with Yue was far from something to be ashamed of. It meant A LOT to him. Why the heck hide it from Suki, when all the reasons sound either condescending or distrustful as hell?

Ah. Because the writers thought this scene would be funny, that’s why.

And the funny scene gets even BETTER when Sokka shushes Suki and proceeds to cry about Yue’s death: he’s shutting her out. And hey... Suki doesn’t like this. She turns her face around and looks pretty irritated, whether by being shushed or by his unwillingness to share his past with her or BOTH THINGS...

... And then the show doesn’t acknowledge this OBVIOUS, SIZABLE, IMPORTANT shortcoming of their relationship ever again.

We’re supposed to assume Sokka explained everything later just because? Hell, he looks like he has absolutely no intentions of doing that. If you ask me, it even could feel like he thinks his relationship with Yue is none of Suki’s business? And that’s not pretty. That’s not good romance writing, no matter how you look at it.

This, of course, is not everything: there’s another two unpleasant situations in this episode alone! :’D

The second one is a slightly smaller one, but bears mentioning all the same: Aang is annoyed when the play makes a mockery of Zutara, so he gets up and leaves: Sokka tells him to bring him snacks. After his initial request, Sokka wraps an arm around Suki and they’re shown surprisingly cuddly now, DESPITE their previous impasse. At first, Suki smiles fondly at him. But then he turns around and asks Aang for more snacks. And then Suki outright looks ANNOYED, while Sokka looks like he doesn’t give a single crap.

This, I feel, ties in with what I mentioned earlier about how Sokka doesn’t even have to try with Suki: Suki isn’t merely a happy girl who thinks Sokka can do no wrong. She CAN be annoyed by him and his behavior, but for some reason, she chooses not to bring up her grievances with how he’s acting, even if it doesn’t sit well with her?

So while there’s supposed to be something so very cute with the monster blob sand statue, her approval doesn’t feel genuine to me. I simply can’t see it as genuine. Because when you feature Suki smiling in that strangely motherly way, saying the statue is “sweet” (instead of, I don’t know, saying she actually sees the artistic merit of it (if she did) or saying he just needs to put in a bit more work), she’s focusing exclusively on making SOKKA feel better about himself. And when Suki is annoyed? He doesn’t have to show remotely the same amount of consideration or compassion she displays for him. Why? Because she sweeps her feelings under the rug and lets him get away with everything he does, even things she’s not happy about. She lets him get away with keeping important secrets, lets him get away with annoying her in the middle of the play, AND...

... lets him get away with rubbing in Suki’s face that Azula kicked her ass :’)

Look, I’m not even being my biased shipper self here. The third unpleasant thing in Ember Island Players is that Suki decides to point out that Team Avatar keeps getting out of deadly pinches by sheer luck and that they lose a lot! She doesn’t say this with concern: she looks sardonic, like she’s legit mocking them. It’d feel completely out of place if she hadn’t been annoyed by Sokka earlier, so it feels (to me) like she’s just taunting him because she’s already not in the best of moods and expects to feel better by making fun of him. Not a terrible crime, but a rather strange one to commit too, considering she’s making fun of her boyfriend damn near dying all the time. You’d think, maybe, that kind of possibility should worry her a little more...?

... But then Sokka retaliates with: “You're one to talk, Suki. Didn't Azula take you captive? That's right, she did!”

Isn’t it goddamn WEIRD that Sokka would bring up what, according to a large amount of Suki’s fanbase, must have been a terribly scarring experience for Suki... just to win an argument with her? Just to piss her off because she’s making fun of him? They’re BOTH shown being remarkably inconsiderate towards each other and the struggles they faced in their respective journeys in this scene. It’s supposed to be lighthearted bickering, but the subject they’re choosing to talk about isn’t lighthearted AT ALL.

According to some Suki fans, Suki could have even been tortured, tormented in thousand ways, by Azula when she took her prisoner. There were whole posts going around about how heartwarming it was for Suki to still be waiting for Sokka, no matter what...!

And THIS is how Sokka reacted to Suki’s patient waiting for him? THIS? By telling her “lol loser Azula caught you anyhow so your argument’s invalid”? If Suki HAD gone through some serious torture, beyond getting stripped off her uniform, how on earth would it be healthy for Sokka to use this allegedly mentally scarring experience AGAINST HIS GIRLFRIEND?

Now then, it WOULD BE fucked up, but the truth is, Suki wasn’t tortured at all, so the whole delusional, tragic “Suki is so emotionally strong because she believed in the man who would come save her even in the darkest of moments!” is honestly nonsense in the end: a girl who was tortured, tormented and anguished by the memories of whatever she experienced in Azula’s hands wouldn’t have retorted to Sokka’s comment with an irritated: “Are you trying to get on my bad side?”

Yet again, Suki is annoyed.

They’re both annoyed by each other’s arguments.

But their discussion ENDS at this point, and goes forgotten, again.

Suki isn’t even a quality bickering source for Sokka, because as soon as Sokka rebuffs with a counterargument she doesn’t like, she turns things personal and takes offense. Where he may not have taken her initial taunt as a particular, personal attack, she does interpret his words that way.

AND THEN THEY PROCEED TO FORGET ABOUT THEIR ARGUMENT AND ITS IMPLICATIONS, YET AGAIN :’)

Now then... is all this so terrible? Am I making too big a deal out of small things that shouldn’t be inspected so closely, especially as they were likely written with humorous intent and nothing more? It’s entirely possible!

You see, I don’t exactly love the way romance is handled in ATLA because it’s frankly always flawed and faulty beyond belief. People often have said one of the three canon relationships is better than the others, but at this point I disagree altogether: they’re all written to be flawed and have huge gaps of logic in the behavior of the characters involved. The girls are always shown as prioritizing the boy above everything else ever, and the boys are too often shown leaving them behind, forgetting about their love interests alarmingly frequently, being outright FORCED by the plot to let go of their attachment to them, whereas there’s no such conflicts or situations with the girls, in the least! Implying that it’s fine for girls to be completely devoted to a relationship, to the point where their whole LIVES revolve around the boy they like, but the boy shouldn’t behave the same way and must learn to leave the girl behind or put her aside instead?

... The implicit sexism in this consistent writing element in ALL THREE CANON RELATIONSHIPS is honestly pretty disturbing. I don’t think I need to say much more about it, do I?

Now though, I will, however, point out that it’s relatively good for canon NOT to show Kataang, Maiko or Sukka as perfect relationships because it IS realistic. It’s not pretty, but it is realistic. These characters are children or teenagers who quite often didn’t even have good role models of romance in their parents or peers, let alone even slightly decent childhoods, so for them to be 100% healthy in terms of romance would have been utterly absurd. Therefore, these kids would be expected to make mistakes and then learn from them so their relationships improve over time.

Sokka and Suki’s relationship is flawed, which only lends MORE believability to it, because the characters aren’t warped to fit the narrative, to play them as unmistakably perfect, ideal partners for each other. But those flaws do lend for problems like the ones I pointed out above...

And you see, the ultimate problem is that these characters DON’T learn from those mistakes. They don’t. Mai and Zuko are shown making the exact same blunders in the show and the comics, hell, sometimes even worse ones in the comics. Sokka and Suki still act like they’re totally in love ONLY when they happen to be in the same place and even then? Suki outright ignores Azula’s zapping attack at Sokka in The Search! SHE’S IN THE SAME COURTYARD! But it’s the THREE BENDERS who come to Sokka’s “rescue”, despite he doesn’t even NEED rescuing, since the attack was goddamn meaningless anyhow.

The point is, however, that Suki is right there, damn it, taking care of APPA. And she’d sooner look after the sky bison that than check on her boyfriend, who was just “attacked” by her WORST ENEMY, WITH WHOM SHE WANTED A REMATCH???

Seriously. What logic is this. What kind of ROMANCE is this. It doesn’t make any sense to me, and if I were a Sukka fan I’d be beyond outraged by watching my favorite relationship written so carelessly.

So, because Yang’s writing isn’t even ALLOWED to move anything too far forward, because Bryke don’t want that, none of these relationships have developed in any interesting ways after the show. AT BEST you could say Kataang definitely act differently in the comics than they did in the show, for better or for worse, so you can say there’s some changes in their dynamics, though those changes aren’t necessarily related to genuine character growth. But Maiko? Same old story. Sukka? Same old story.

What exactly does Sukka do for Sokka at this point? He has someone to make out with whenever they cross paths? Yeah, okay, cool. And? That’s it? For that matter, he could be making out with anyone else just the same. What kind of room for growth does she offer him? Going by how she doesn’t even need him around her, by how she has never needed anything but mediocrity from him, I can’t say there’s anything to be found. Their relationship already dealt with its biggest possible hurdle WHEN THEY FIRST MET. That’s the main growth Suki offered Sokka, and now she can’t give him anything else because he’s way too efficient and learned everything she could teach him right away :’) Paired with this, Suki wasn’t developed enough as a character either, so if she has other regards in which she can teach Sokka a thing or two, we simply don’t know it, and the comics refuse to show it to us too, so up to date, Suki is severely underdeveloped by canon and will continue to be, as far as I can tell.

Which, of course, factors in the next question: what does Sukka do for Suki? Honestly, nothing. If this relationship did something interesting for her character, we’d have tons of things to say and discuss about her, but the truth is all Suki-related discussion tends to have nothing to do with Sokka (her past and growth as a Kyoshi Warrior, her future post-canon, whatever the heck happened to her by LOK’s time... I’ve never seen anyone genuinely pondering anything about her relationship with Sokka beyond “did they stay together or not?!?!”). Suki is at her best when she’s with the Kyoshi Warriors, because it’s the only element of her character that DOESN’T revolve around Sokka. Going by the plot of the Shells comic, she could go travel the world teaching girls self-defense, and kicking the asses of sexist dudes! It’s not really going to deepen her character, sadly, because that’s basically ALL we know about her since the start of the show, aside from her attachment to Sokka. And she doesn’t need Sokka to do this. She could do it by herself just the same.

Literally, just for the sake of giving Suki something else to do, not even for my personal OTP’s sake, I’d gladly see Suki breaking up with Sokka so she can damn explore who she is beyond this relationship? The Kyoshi Warriors serving in the Fire Nation Palace was probably the first interesting development for Suki in canon since she first met Sokka, and even then her role there was never explored fully, let alone was her potentially red-herring budding relationship with Zuko.

But who am I kidding? :’) not gonna happen. For all I know, they got married in canon and had a perfectly happy life together. A perfectly happy, mediocre life, where neither one has to make the slightest effort for the other, in the least. Taking each other for granted, every step of the way!

*sigh* I can’t want this for Sokka, seriously. I can’t. I love his character a lot, but I absolutely hate how he’s written in this relationship. Most my understanding of how Sokka behaves in a relationship has come from how he behaves with Yue, precisely because, as brief as their relationship was, he seriously appeared to value her above so many other things, to fight for her, to do anything he could to help her without asking for anything in return. And that’s why I write him as I do.

Love can feel different when you experience it with different people, of course, and I’m not asking for Sokka to be written exactly the same in two different relationships... but the difference is just way too vast. I don’t question he cares about Suki, but I do question that he genuinely loves her. This is NOT how someone in love behaves. And frankly, Suki’s behavior isn’t that of a girl in genuine love either. She likes him plenty, is impressed by the things he and his friends have achieved, but is it genuine love? How can it be, when they apparently can’t even trust each other about their personal experiences (Yue in Sokka’s case, spending months as a prisoner in Suki’s)? When his behavior rubs her the wrong way and annoys her when they’re at their most casual? When the bickering he’d likely enjoy having with a significant other just falters after two exchanges with Suki because she takes offense to what he said?

In conclusion:

Writing: the writing of this relationship is frankly really, REALLY flawed, far more than most fans are willing to acknowledge (whether fans of the ship or of the show in general). They try to make jokes with this relationship, but these jokes end up highlighting serious flaws in this relationship that are never addressed. Also, their relationship is hardly ever treated as something majorly important for Sokka, who constantly privileges his bond with Yue over Suki, which is radically contrasted with Suki, who has no meaningful relationships in the show beyond Sokka. As I pointed out earlier, the writing proposes the boy doesn’t need to revolve around the girl, but the girl DOES revolve around the boy? Absolutely appalling.

Dynamics: beyond their exchanges on their very first episode, their dynamics don’t offer anything unique to their characters. You can replace Suki with any other female character, and Sokka’s struggle to let go of Yue and accept a new love interest in his life wouldn’t change in any considerable way. It didn’t HAVE to be Suki, let alone a Suki whose original personality (sassy, demanding, proud to the point of bordering on arrogant, prone to making mistakes because of this flaw...) was completely hijacked by a new one (perfectly nice, friendly, reasonable, considerate, flirty, not demanding in the least, virtually flawless...). There’s not much Sokka can teach the Book 2-onwards Suki, or much else Suki can teach Sokka. There’s not much they can learn together either, because the writing never offers them new challenges they haven’t handled before. Their dynamics exclusively hinge on Suki being reliable in action situations, weak humor centered around Sokka being a mediocre boyfriend, and making out. That’s all their relationship provides, and frankly, they BOTH can do better than that.

Potential: I don’t think Sukka has much more potential beyond what we already have seen. Their natural chemistry isn’t anything out of this world, it’s FINE, but it’s not exactly something extraordinary that can’t be found anywhere else. And that’s really at the crux of why I don’t ship it or find much enjoyment in it: neither Sokka nor Suki appear to be at their best in this relationship. Suki is outright worse off by this relationship because she went from feminist poster child to a girl who REVOLVES AROUND A BOY. Please, let’s let that sink in? There are better possible relationships for them, relationships that absolutely could explore aspects of BOTH characters that have gone underdeveloped and overshadowed in canon, just for the sake of weak humor and make-out sessions.

*sigh*

Fact is, most the problems with Sukka are a matter of poor writing. With better writing, the relationship could be good, and would be easier to take seriously. But even then? I wouldn’t ever expect this relationship to outshine other possible ships for both Sokka and Suki. If you feature another girl as Sokka’s big, rude “girls are fighters too” awakening... what’s left for Sukka? Speaking from experience, seeing as I outright wrote that: without this factor, their relationship wouldn’t be anything particularly noteworthy. Sokka would respect Suki right off the bat, sure, maybe surprise her a bit because of how unpredictable and unexpected he can be, but there’d be no genuine reason for them to seriously develop feelings for each other. That their entire bond hinges on their first encounter, rather than the growth of their relationship across time, is far from appealing for me in a relationship. I absolutely need more than that to ship something.

I’ve already brought up most these arguments in the past, as well as others I probably forgot to mention, but I can give you one more post to look at (if you want it), specifically about how a certain ship can be a vast improvement for Sokka over Sukka :’D This, I’d hope, will clarify what I mean when I say other ships can offer Sokka far more than Sukka does. I didn’t dig into it here, since I tried to focus exclusively on why I won’t ship this, but that might help expand your understanding of my reasons not to support it. And then there’s also the ship I support for Suki... here are my arguments on that topic too. Admittedly, I was more centered on Zuko in this second post, but I basically already gave you all the arguments why Suki in Sukka doesn’t work for me :’D and there’s a few arguments in there about why Zuko would be a far more interesting love interest for Suki than Sokka has been so far, too. So... that’s that. I hope I gave you plenty to think about :’D

#anon #all this is about the ship itself #I have no qualm with the shippers except a select few #who exhibited some really gross behavior years ago #and whom I've happily not crossed paths with since then #I have no severe qualms with this ship's supporters #not like I do with OTHER ships #that won't be mentioned #so no I'm not saying no one should ship it #but I'm saying this is why I don't #*breeeathes*#anyways I hope you enjoy the veeeery long post anon

17 notes · View notes

brightblueinky · 4 years

Text

Long winded ramblings about a Bronycon video

So I’ve seen some hubbub about a YouTube essay going over the history of the Brony fandom up until the last Bronycon. (You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fVOF2PiHnc ) I just got around to watching it today and I was...somewhat confused by some of the stronger negative takes I was seeing floating around Twitter, and I’ve been in a “fandom discourse” mood lately so, hey, I thought...why not talk about it. The first part of this was originally going to be a Twitter thread until I realized Twitter wasn’t going to let me keep going on the thread so I gave up and decided to put it here instead (lol) so it’s probably going to be a bit choppy since I was trying to keep it readable for that format.

So first of all, my background, so I can be completely honest about where I'm coming from and try not to portray what I'm saying as like...an end-all-be-all take here, because I don't wanna do that. I was never really an MLP fan. I watched the first season of FiM and really enjoyed it, but I didn't really engage with the fandom because by that point I'd gotten to where I didn't spend much time in huge fandoms. So I can't come at this from the perspective of an MLP fan. When I’m addressing the fandom here, I’m coming at it as an outsider in the sense that I am not a MLP fan/brony. What I AM going to do is come at this from the perspective of something of a "native" to fandom. I've always been a geek. I've engaged in online fandom in some form or another since I was about 8, which was in the mid 90s. I've been around the fandom block. Actually, I can even say that I used to lurk on 4chan a lot and I saw a lot of the early Brony discussions there. I also watch @JennyENicholson's videos, and yeah, there's been times where I've been bugged because we had a disagreement of opinions and felt like it was a little harsh. She's got a dry sense of humor and sometimes it's hard to read when she's joking and when she's being genuine. So like, I wasn't surprised when I saw some hubbub from some people online about her doing the video about Bronies. Not at all. But I gotta say...I am really surprised by some of the more INTENSE takes on the video after watching it?? The LARGE majority of the video is @JennyENicholson covering this fandom from an INSIDER'S perspective. She was an MLP fan before FiM, she was active enough in the fandom to be a BNF. A huge, huge amount of the video is positive and nostalgic. In fact I now wish I HAD been in the fandom! It seems like it was a lot of fun! The only thing I felt was maybe harsh in the video is I think she gave the impression that being "furry" is exclusively a sex thing, but by the end she talks about furries being a community that's a very inclusive, kind community with a lot of queer people, so even then I think if you're really paying attention to the whole video you're not going to come away with the idea that the furry community is bad. Just maybe could've had more nuance earlier in the video? So from glancing through mentions of her in a Twitter search (which is definitely not going to be a perfect sample) from what I can tell there's like two things that people seem to be upset about with the video: 1, the idea that the fandom is "dead" and 2...just...Body Pillows. So let's talk about the dead fandom thing first. As I mention, I have been in fandom a long, long time. Although I (usually) shy away from big active fandoms now, I started off in bigger ones--Sonic, Pokemon, Digimon, LOTR, etc. The two fandoms I currently care about the most, though, are definitely fandoms that tend to be called "dead" and were never HUGE to begin with (Princess Tutu and Chrono Crusade). I think I can count on my hands the number of ppl who actively discuss or create fanwork for CC. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I've been on both sides of the coin here. And let me reassure Bronies: "Dead", while maybe too strong of a label for what it actually means, does not have to be a negative thing and you don't need to defend your fandom from it, IMO. I think the "dead" label simply means that interest in the fandom has cooled, the number of active participants is significantly down from the heydays of the fandom, etc. And I don't think that's an unfair label for brony fandom from what I know. If there was a large scale replacement for Bronycon then maybe it'd be unfair, but...yeah, if you're losing your large hubs for the fandom community, if the flow of fanwork and discussion has slowed, I think "dead", as it's used, isn't an unfair label. But again, I don't think this is a bad thing! I'd imagine that even the current state of the brony fandom is larger and more active than the Princess Tutu fandom at its greatest heights. It's a pretty relative term. It doesn't mean nobody cares, or that you can't still enjoy it! All the "dead" label really means is acknowledging the change in a fandom. It's not a bad thing. I might be 1 of ~30 writers for Chrono Crusade on AO3 but I still have fun writing fic and I still get hits and occasional positive comments. It's not bad. Just different. Okay so now let's talk about the body pillow thing and oh man, is this going to be a minefield, lol. Let's first talk about my personal lens I'm going to come at here... I've created NSFW fanwork. Some of it taboo. I'm also (somewhat) a part of the "proship" discourse on Twitter which is basically a community of people that push back against another community of "anti"-shippers who feel that some ships are problematic (because of character age, power dynamics, etc) and shouldn't be shipped. (I think that simplifies a lot of the discussion on both sides but it’ll do for the purpose of what I’m getting at here, I think.) At its worse this debate has lead death threats and suicide attempts. I have seen people get treated abusively for fanwork (sometimes NSFW but not always). (And I also want to add that while I think the major component of the pro-ship discussions on Twitter are anti-harassment, there’s been some ‘edgy’ types who think that it’s fun to harass antis with NSFW fanwork and the like and I want to make it clear that is ALSO ABUSIVE AND NOT OKAY.) Basically, I want to say I'm sympathetic to a knee jerk defensive reaction over NSFW fanart. Okay? I can get why people might want to push against criticism of stuff they enjoy/create, and that there’s an element of possibly being harassed for fanwork you create. But the thing is, I don't think this is really the attitude Jenny is taking in the video. She lightly mocks NSFW stuff and body pillows, but often describes it as "harmless" and "fine". The only time she's critical of it is when she notes that sometimes body pillows with suggestive poses could be on display at conventions where young kids were present--at a con celebrating a show MEANT for young kids--and that probably shouldn't have been allowed. She's not saying you can't buy a body pillow, or create one. She didn't even say that while discussing body pillows of characters who were 10! She expressed personal discomfort, but the only restriction she really suggested was "keep this out of the sight of minors." And I don't know why that would be a controversial take. I read lemons when I was younger so I'm not going to sit here and act like it's going to completely ruin kids lives or anything. But I ALSO think it's appropriate to have boundaries for sexual materials for kids (or anyone who doesn't want to engage for whatever reason). I want my stuff to be clearly labeled as NSFW, with tags being clear about the content, so people know what they're getting into. I’ve grown to care about this even more as I’ve gotten older. I don’t really want to know about minors reading my nsfw fanfic or anything. I’m not going to, like, parent them and shame them if they do, but I don’t want to engage with it, I want my stuff to be labeled, and I am DEFINITELY not going to put it on public display at a place where I know kids are allowed, ESPECIALLY not when it’s work based on stuff MEANT for children! I mean, I grew up in a fundamentalist Evangelical household and I will rant at you for hours about how damaging I feel that environment was, and that I don’t think kids and teens should be completely shielded from sex, etc. But that doesn’t mean that having boundaries in place is a bad idea, especially when minors are involved. I also think that boundaries are good just for the sake of consent, too? I’m not saying that someone accidentally seeing suggestive art is the same as them being raped, please don’t conflate it like that, but if people don’t want to see it for whatever reason they should be given the opportunity to make that choice as much as possible. The stuff that Jenny mentioned brony conventions would do (requiring stuff to be sold under the table, or having late night hours for the dealer’s room where 18+ merch could be displayed and sold) seem like really good policies and pretty similar to what I’ve seen at anime conventions I’ve attended (although occasionally some stuff that was maybe a biiit more suggestive than I’d be comfortable displaying in public...but hey, my local con allows kids but also makes it clear in their rules that it’s mostly geared for 13+ attendees and that it’s up to parents to decide what’s appropriate for their kids, and I think that’s fair). And yeah, I know, nothing that Jenny showed in the video being displayed at Bronycon was 100% explicit, just suggestive. She notes this in the video herself, saying that yeah, it doesn’t show genitalia, etc...and as I’m writing this I think I’ve maybe rambled too much about NSFW fanart when most of the stuff we’re talking about here is more “suggestive” than straight-up porn, since that’s probably muddying the waters a bit. But I gotta, gotta, GOTTA address the sentiment I saw multiple times on Twitter in response to her video: “Dakimakura/body pillows aren’t sexual and to say that is orientalist.” I...what? What the fuck? Okay, again, I’m going to make it perfectly clear what my background is here so that I’m not claiming to have some expertise that I don’t have: I am white. I am VERY white. My parents did the DNA test thing and the most “exotic” thing that came up is that my dad is 3% Spanish. Not latin american, I mean from Spain spanish. I am sooooo fucking white. I’ve studied a LITTLE of Japanese culture in college classes but that wasn’t even my field of study (Communication major on a Broadcasing track, minor in Theatre) so I’m not going to tell you I’m an expert on Japanese culture. I’m just a weeby geek that grew up in anime fandoms and never really stopped consuming Japanese pop culture. I have a very limited experience with Japanese culture. I am NOT an expert on what is and isn’t orientalist. I know I’m really hammering in this point here but I think it’s really, really important that I make it clear that I shouldn’t be used as an expert on this subject. But what I DO have a background in is someone who has engaged in Western fandom of stuff from Japan from a young age, I did spend a lot of time on 4chan, this is NOT the first time that I’ve seen some form of an “this isn’t sexual at all and you’re just a PERVERT” discussion about fanservice and...okay first of all, I highly doubt anyone saying this is any more qualified to define what is and isn’t orientalist than I am. I think this is bullshit and it feels like an attempt to make your opinions more legitimate by implying people that disagree with you are some form of bigot. (And look, I was a sheltered, insecure, stuck-up teenager in fandom, part of the reason I feel like I can recognize this is I totally pulled the same shit. I am not going to act like I have never tried to pull this and that I’m a pure innocent woke intellectual who’s never said something foolish, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to let it slide, either.)

While writing this I googled ‘dakimakura’ to make sure I was spelling it right and noticed that Wikipedia does note that the origins of this style of pillow are sometimes used by Japanese kids as something like a security blanket, which I’m guessing is where the justification for the argument is coming from, but let’s be intellectually honest here--body pillow covers being sold at a convention aren’t primarily meant to be a security blanket for kids. And, okay, maybe you have a body pillow cover with a character on it that isn’t exactly in a sexual pose, just laying fully clothed on what looks like a bedsheet background. But I don’t think it’s an unfair argument to say that even THEN it implies a sort of intimacy, right, possibly a desire for a romantic attachment? Like, sharing a bed with someone doesn’t have to be sexual or romantic, I used to share a bed with my brother in hotel rooms when we were kids, but I’m also not going to share a bed with my brother and then hug him closely to my body no matter how he’s posed or what he’s wearing??? And look, maybe a body pillow isn’t ALWAYS sexual but to say it’s NOT sexual, which kinda implies NEVER, is so disingenuous. The top result I got when I searched for “anime body pillow” is a shop that includes categories like “18+ body pillow” and “sexy body pillow” and also SELLS FAKE BREAST INSERTS FOR SOME OF THE PILLOWS SO YOU CAN SQUEEZE THEIR BOOBS (obviously, NSFW link: https://www.dakimakura.us/ ) Like, COME ON, I don’t think it’s orientalist to say that something is sexual when Japanese people are actually selling body pillows they label as 18+. The second result even has a second for pillows you can insert sex toys into. And yeah I saw the guy saying “masturbation isn’t sex!” and sir at BEST you have a very narrow and incorrect definition of sex as simply being intercourse and, again, at worst you’re just being straight up dishonest. In fact, I’ll straight up call myself out for this. There’s a fanart body pillow of a fictional character I’ve considered buying several times! (Not porn but still probably NSFW link: https://www.etsy.com/listing/701912275/dakimakura-hypnosismic-doppo?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=hypnosis+mic&ref=sr_gallery-1-4&organic_search_click=1 ) Is this porn? No. You can’t see much. But on one side of the pillow he’s got his shirt untucked, you can see a bit of his stomach, and his fly is undone and you can see the band of his underwear peeking out. This is sexual. I’m not wanting it to like, get off on it, exactly...honestly it’s maybe a bit ironic, and a lot of wanting a body pillow in general is I like sleeping hugging onto something but I have a different sleep schedule from my husband I find him too big to hold all night and too warm in the summer anyway. But I’m not going to tell you that me wanting this PARTICULAR pillow case isn’t at all sexual, I know what I’m doing, I like the character and think the drawing is hot. I’m not saying don’t buy body pillows, okay? I’m not saying don’t sell them. I don’t think Jenny is either (she literally OWNS ONE that she shows in the video!!!). But don’t act like there isn’t ever anything sexual about it existing to try to defend their existence, okay? You don’t need to be a fucking coward about it, and you especially don’t need to say it’s racist if people call out something as being suggestive when, well, it fucking is. And I think it’s totally 100% reasonable for someone to say “hey I don’t think it’s a good idea to display suggestive art around kids, especially if it’s depicting young characters.” TL;DR -- Chill, guys. CHILL. Your fandom is getting smaller and the term people use for this is “dead” but that’s not a bad thing, you’ve still got the fandom, you can still enjoy it, there’s definitely no need to take personal offense over it. And enjoy your body pillows, but don’t be disingenuous about the fact that they can be suggestive and try to act like anyone that calls it such is racist, that is such bullshit. Like what you like, other people’s opinions of it is not automatically a personal attack on you, there’s no need to jump to being defensive every time someone says something vaguely negative about it. Chill, fandom friends. Fandom ain’t bad but it also doesn’t need to be the center of your identity and you don’t need to lash out against people for daring to have opinions about a thing you like. You especially don’t need to act like other people are perverts for noting something being suggestive. Chiiiiiiiiiill.

#long post #fandom #bronies #my little pony #youtube #ramble #fandom discourse

7 notes · View notes

fthisshiiimout · 4 years

Text

" Hope is a dangeous thing" Michael Guerin's words of wisdom! He said it to Max and said it to Maria! But I really hope every single MALEX fan took it to heart cause it was really meant for US!

I dont care what people say in this fandom anymore. "I dont want to hear spoilers" " no spoilers" " you should tag your shit as a spoiler" NO IM NOT GOING TO! Ya know why?? Because Carina herself wouldnt have shown her shit if she didnt want SPOILERS OUT!! DUHH! And Im ranting because Im sick of the headgames with this show..it ridiculous..no wonder why people in this fandom are dropping like flies.

And Im sick and tired of the back and forth between M/M and M/A. Im sick of the headgames with the showrunner as well! One day its " Oh its Maria..shes his light" and whatever else is spewed. And the next its " Ohh Michael and Alex there journey is from darkness to light" and whatever other bullshit is spewed. Cause in reality its all Bullshit to keep Malex fans and Miluca fans to keep watching and fighting. If you ever cared to look at the ratings for season 1 they were abysmal. Only the first 2 episodes got over a million viewers. Which is horrible..but in full disclosure Theres only 1 CW show that has really any kind of following ( and hint hint its not Supernatural..That shows ratings are going down faster then a hooker on payday). Believe me I did the research. I dont understand why they are putting it after a tanking show if they want more viewers ( No disrespect to Supernatural, my daughter and husband love this show). But I digress..

The show runners know where there bread is buttered on this show and it is with MALEX fans. It even overshadows the Liz/Max shippers and Definitely over shadows Michael and Maria. Hell Vlamis and Tyler realized it pretty quickly..Vlamis made a sold out Merch line because of it. And they are the captains of this ship because they see the potential of how big it can be. Hell even the CW pr team figured it out! Thats why in the trailer we saw Malex and no Miluca?? Its not rocket science to figure this out!

So why now are the showrunners literally shitting on the LGBTQ+ community by taking away the only couple that represent that population on that show?? Then placating the community with "ooh Alex gets a new love interest" and the obscure and downright awkward " oh someone who Identified as straight in the beginning of the season will not be at the end". What a FUCKING FARCE! Like really?? As a community are we that desperate or obtuse?? Did nobody roll there eyes at this bullshit? Or am I the only one? We have a perfectly "cosmic" gay ship in front of us! Yes with baggage..no denying that..but thats the drama of TV I get it.

The reason is because the showrunners have no plans to make Malex anymore. There I said it and I SAW IT FIRSTHAND! In 2x01 Michael told Alex straight up they "were done" it was pretty cut and dry and lasted all of 2 mins...good to know Malex fans get two mins of heartbreak..that should tell you something. While Michael and Maria had 3 scenes..maybe more together. Granted they were not together at the end of 2x01 but According to Heather they will be trying to " ignite the spark between them" for the entire season. And that they're love is " exciting and blah blah blah".. No one gives a shit. Least of all me. But you can clearly see thats where its headed.

Also in season 1 there were some big hints too that I myself overlooked but they were glaring but subtle like the Max/Cam love scene intertwined with the Michael/Alex scene and the song playing in the background..that was telling... You dont see Max and Cam together. Or 1x12 prison scene " Cant love me" playing in the background and the words Michael spit at Alex..I dont think they were complete lies. Michael felt them on some lvl. And Alex's own words " Sometimes the world ends with a wimper, Guerin".. Those were all meant for Malex shippers as well.

And what about this "see if we can " be friends" or " we didn't even know each other" bullshit! I hate those lines..Like really?? Michael moved back to Roswell when he was 11..which meant that they went to school and living in a small town grew up together. At least for 7 or so yrs. They must have knew each other just for the simple fact of the Liz/Max dynamic..I grew up in many a small town i know this dynamic well. EVERYONE LITERALLY KNOWS EVERYONE! Maybe they didn't really hook up till the end of senior year. But they knew each other and I can almost bet that Alex admired Michael's protectiveness and Michael admired Alex's strength. And they also must have known about each others abusive pasts to a point..logic dictates that. And relationships have been built and survived on less.And if the showrunners wanted to make them " friends" for a time I could even tolerate it..tolerate being the operative word.

But no Michael's gonna "light the spark" with Maria..because in reality thats what the showrunners want. They dont give a shit about Malex working through their shit like logic adults would. And that's fine It just frustrates me that I was sold a lie..and every Malex shipper was too. Wake up fellow shippers and see it too. Or dont..Lies are comfortable like a warm blanket on a cold night. Everyone has some delusion they cling to..much like hope.

My last frustration with the ending of this ship will be that it is laid solely at Alex's feet. "He kept walking away", " He abandoned Michael for 10 yrs", "He left him behind", "I love him, I probably always will..but hes tied to all these horrible memories in my life. All the things his family did to mine. Coming back to him always feels like a crash landing" or the newest and deepest when Alex was giving him the file from Caulfield " Manes men did this to her".. Its always going to be Alex's fault. I wonder if Tyler knew the full extent of the way Alex was gonna be shit on. I dont think Tyler being openly queer himself would be ok with that kind of representation of the Gay community. Its pretty jarring... Honestly I can almost guarantee they probably " promised" him a more normal gay relationship with this new " character" Forrest. Whatever the case may be its still bullshit. Michael seems to hold no responsibility to it.

And Michael will still get the girl and be in his hetero relationship with Maria..because Im asking the question..is he really bi? Evidence in the show doesn't specifically back that up. The only man we see him with is Alex..I havent heard or seen him with other men. Even Michael himself said "Its just him..screws me up".. So maybe "Pan" is a better description?

So RIP Malex! It was good while it lasted.."cosmic" even..but the showrunners killed you off before you even got the opportunity to take flight! ( This is a rant about the showrunners and writers for the fake promise of Malex. I seriously have no issue with Maria or the actress per se...and if the showrunners wanted M/M they should have just started in Season 1 with them).

#roswell new mexico #roswell cw #roswellnm #malex #alex manes #michael guerin

13 notes · View notes

kingkadence · 6 years

Note

Aaa I had someone ask me the same question and I realized after reading people's posts that being 'anti' about a ship is different than just not liking a ship, 'anti' means you think its morally reprehensible or something and 'antis' are known for judging and attacking people over ships. I was using the anti label up until about a month ago but dropped it as soon as I figured that out. I guess the term for just not liking a ship is notp?

Here! Is basic guide to not liking a ship (all my opinions based on what I’ve read, y’all r free to think what you’d like)

Lvl 1 - “disliking a ship”

You see content for a ship, might make you uncomfortable or put you in a bad mood. Maybe you don’t have a particular reason, you may just not be fond of it. Or hey! Maybe you just never thought of the characters seeing each other that way. Most of the time you see it, it’s new, it’s foreign, and you just never imagined them together. With this, it’s common that after a while of exposure you might even like it after a while! Or even just have a neutral opinion. Ur dislike isn’t too serious, you don’t talk about it unless someone brings it up, you’ll scroll, you mind ya own.

Lvl 2 - notp

You see it and it makes you… hhhh internally. If someone posts this you might scroll or even go as far as muting posts or unfollowing. The ship described in one word for u is just “No.” for whatever reason it may be. It might be because you don’t like the character the other is paired with, you might think that the fan base behind the ship is gross, you might just hate both character but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ who knows. Your resentment goes deep, and if you see someone post this kind of stuff, you will surely avoid it. You’ll go on a rant on how much you hate it if someone brings it up, not one that’s offensive, you’re just passionate with the hate you have for this ship. You might make bash edits or amvs of them. If a mutual posts this ship, you may grumble, you might say “I don’t ship this but the content is nice” ((heads up pls don’t do that it’s annoying and destructive to content creators))

Lvl 3 - ship hate

Definitely hitting a radical status but not there yet. It’s toxic, let’s just put it that way. You may not like the ship because it gets in the way of your otp, to you it may seemed forced in canon writing, you may even go as far as to say the ship is abusive, who knows it might be, but harassing other ppl over it,, isn’t abusive behaviour??? Lol ok. Anyway, you may have an account dedicated to how much you don’t like it, you will bring it up to people constantly to the point where others might say hey,,,, chill dude. You are VERY active in the discourse tag, you are sure to write your own opinions, very passionate, but very pushy. You may even comment on ships saying “ew gross, x ship for life!!” and you probably got into a fight in the comments at least once. You see an account post it, you block them. A mutual? You are VERY tempted to unfollow, if you haven’t already.

Lvl 4 - anti

This,,,, just oof,, you think the ship is LEGALLY an issue, very morally wrong or you just fucking hate the hell out of it bc it gets in the way of your ship and you’re grasping at straws to say why it’s toxic. (I actually was internally an anti for a while when I was like idk 14, suffered bhad from these symptoms, fun fact) you will go out of your way to voice your opinion, you will purposely message people telling them they’re disgusting calling them names, not even really justifying why it’s bad?? Telling ppl they’re fucked up……… doesn’t let ppl know why they’re fucked up but I mean go off. Anyway, you DEFINITELY have thought about running a hate account, you post other people’s art and content without crediting them, and proceed to hate on the content. Whenever the fandom is brought up you cannot CONTAIN your hatred for whatever discourse is going on. Let’s face it whatever resentment u got, it’s MUCH more chaotic than the love you have for your ship. Just down right negative all around. Explosive, unstable, if you don’t harass the people in the fandom, making them unsafe. (ie: sending gore pictures, death threats, making them and their followers WILDLY uncomfortable) you send it to the creators! You threaten the lives of people who make the show, you are disruptive, and literally have no personal boundaries, and you don’t give a shit about the writing, the plot, the developing of characters. You want your ship, or rather, you DON’T want other ships. To the point where human lives clearly don’t,,, matter to you????????? But cartoon ones do are you GOOD

(Imma do this one bc sometimes it’s okay to not like a ship!)

BONUS LVL - activist shipper

You don’t like this ship because it’s ACTUALLY hurtful and not because a ship is getting in the way (*ncest, p*dophillia, genuine abuse between these characters in canon etc) commonly antis will think they’re apart of this group, or this group will think they’re antis. Nnnno!pe! It is TOTALLY ok to dislike/hate these ships and think it’s insensitive to post things like this that may actually hurt people. I’m not gonna SAY which ships but if you’re shipping a 25 year old with a 10 year old,,,,,,,, u rlly gotta think,, about ur moral compass. ESPECIALLY if you’re sexualizing kids in your content. These people are commonly in discourse, but they voice why it’s bad, they voice their opinions RESPECTFULLY. Because AS SOON as you tell someone to die ur rlly pushing it. These people are here to educate, they’re not here to hurt. They want people to learn and grow and know what’s harmful and what’s not. They might get into an argument, nothing might change, but they’re happy knowing that they’re fighting for people who have been hurt bc of these topics and they’re not comfortable being silent about it.

Let me tell you, it’s ay okay to dislike and hate a ship. But don’t let it consume you, just like how you shouldn’t let ur otp consume you?? And if you see GENUINE bad happening in a fandom don’t be afraid to speak up, but be MINDFUL, RESPECTFUL, AND EMPATHETIC!! I am not on board with some of the ships ppl post but telling someone to die isn’t gonna help them learn what they’re doing is wrong. And if you don’t think you can PROPERLY TELL SOMEONE hey this content is hurtful, maybe,,,,,,, get someone else to do it,,,,,,, bc ur literally being just as harmful.

((Also while I’m on my soap box stop shipping abusive wlw/mlm JUST because they’re gay,,, that’s xtremely fetishy,, and as a gay guy I don’t approve :/))

Anyway, take this or leave this, just what I think

#ship discourse #discourse #fandom discourse #anti discourse #allie discourse #ask #mine

6 notes · View notes

occupyvenus · 6 years

Note

Great post - "about why Jonsa of all ships is so bitterly thought about" and I think your really nailed a lot of the key factors, especially how the San/San people like Sansa, are more likely book readers and can accept the Jonsa ship maturely. There is definitely a pathological hatred of Sansa that drives the fanaticism against her being with Jon. You really captured a lot of the thinking (if you can call it thinking!) on a tv forum I've been following for about a year. People literally (1/2)

will dream up any reason to keep Sansa away from Jon. There is essentially a subculture that allows the Jon/Ary@ ship and the Jon/D@ny ship to coexist. Even kind of support each other. Dany might die and then Arya and Jon will raise the Targcest baby together. Pretty crazy stuff. Anyway thanks for writing so clearly on this topic. (2/2)

First of all … that was supposed to say FOUGHT ABOUT!!! NOT THOUGHT ABOUT!!! WHY JONSA OF ALL SHIPS IS SO BITTERLY FOUGHT ABOUT!!!

I lower my head in shame, while contemplating my bad habit of never proof-reading the stuff I write. But as the previous anon so correctly pointed out my spelling isn’t exactly top-notch. Most of the time it’s honestly p r e t t y bad. If words sound somewhat similar, by stupid brain assumes they’re interchangeable. Seven hells.

Though I think this - Sansa being regarded as a side character or at best, the least important main character - also explains why Jonsa isn’t seen as a possibility by the general fandom, not just the radical antis. People look at the infamous original outline, believing that Sansa never gained any real importance as a character since then, like she was just allowed to tag along with the “real” key five (Arya, Bran, Dany, Jon and Tyrion). She was supposed to marry Joffrey and die at some point and the crazy folks think she’ll not even survive but also get THE MALE LOVE-INTEREST? I suppose, to people who don’t realize (or don’t want to admit) that Sansa was “upgraded” to key-status (GRRM always includes her when talking about the most important characters nowadays), any serious theory that claims she could be Jon’s grand love interest sounds as implausible as if it was … idk, Arianne or Brienne or whoever. Those two are great and all, but Jon Snow is on an entirely different level when it comes to significance to the narrative. Why would he of all people end up with some puny side-character? Shouldn’t that “honor” go to one of the real heroines? Makes sense. It’s not just the people who actively hate on Sansa, but also those who simply don’t care much about her character.

I guess you call this hypothesis “Why Jonsa of all ships is so bitterly FOUGHT about and/or not taken seriously”.

I’m honestly not an expert on what’s going on between the other camps (ie the general attitude between J0nry and J0nerys shippers), but according to my experience these two subgroups (together with the Sansa/P€tyr shippers) make up the majority of devoted jonsa-haters and put forth the most obsessed ones as well. If I remember correctly, a few years back before canon!jonsa gained so much momentum those two groups weren’t getting along nicely either. There was a lot of bickering about who’s more important (Ary@ is grrm’s fav!, D@ny has dragons and all, so shut your piehole!), mixed up with some shipping wank and as far as I can tell (as I said, I have a very limited perspective on this. I don’t really interact with either group), that has gotten a bit better since Sansa entered the stage as another key female character. What do people say? The enemy of my enemy …

I don’t think that shipping is super important to asoiaf, I care about the story first and was pretty indifferent to it before I jumped on board the Jonsa ship, but I do think that we’ll get one “main” romance between two “main” characters. It would simply make sense to me, Grrm was never shy about including romantic love in his works, even if it was never the main focus. Now, this will more likely than not end in tragedy, but since asoiaf can be read as a coming of age story for at least 5 of the key six, and settling down with a spouse and a couple of kids is one common way to end such a story, maybe that will belong to the “sweet” part of the bittersweet ending. Idk, anything’s possible. (Btw, I don’t count Sansa and Tyrion’s marriage as a “romance” for obvious reasons.) If you don’t subscribe to the idiotic assumption that Jon and D@ny are the “real” real main characters and assume that all six are of equal importance … why is shipping either of them (other than the biological siblings, perhaps, that would be a bit weird even by grrm standards), less legit than the other? (Of course, if you do subscribe to this assumption, there probably only exists one “legitimate” pairing in your opinion. In which case, no argument about this could ever be solved until finding a common denominator to this question of principle, so why even bother…)

If one of the male characters can be seen as the “romantic lead” it would be Jon (grrm even sorta confirmed this in his “fake” -lol- medusa interview), simply because Bran is just a kid and Tyrion, well some people will accuse me of ableism, but I don’t get any “romantic lead” vibes from him. Not because he’s a dwarf, because he’s the only “grownup” of the key six. So everyone can keep any accusations to themselves. I also don’t think that Grrm will stride away from hetero-love, to be honest. HE COULD. But I don’t think he will. That leaves us with the three possibilities mentioned above: Jon and one of the leading ladies. I think it’s rather inevitable that that will happen.

But when it comes to the ladies … things simply aren’t as clear. They’re all similar of age, neither of them is closely related to Jon (at least, not THAT closely related), they could all work. I obviously don’t like J0nerys, but I can totally understand why so many people believe in it. I would maybe even ship J0nrya a bit, if it wasn’t almost impossible to find shippers who don’t hate on Sansa/Jonsa. And I would never call either of those groups “delusional” because it basically comes down to personal preference and a couple of other factors, most notably how you judge the future projective of these three characters.

I also hate the assumption that J0nerys is the only pairing with solid foreshadowing in the books. I read the books a few times, all j0nerys meta I could find, plenty of J0nrya ones and, well, I don’t have to talk about all the jonsa-metas I’ve consumed xD. Trying to remain as unbiased as possible, there’s an almost equal amount of foreshadowing for all of them. I simply came to the conclusion that Sansa is the most likely candidate because a) I’m pretty sure D@ny will go dark and there will be a targbowl of sorts. She could just as easily be a love interest, as she could be an adversary. b) The age-gap between Ary@ and Jon is a bit too big for my liking. Especially at their current canon age. Also I love them siblings so much. And c) Sansa’s upgrade and the drastic change in her narrative must have a reason. Martin liking the idea of tormented pseudo-incest, and the reveal of Jon’s parentage making such a relationship “proper” but deciding to emphasize the brotherly bond between Jon and Ary@ and “using” Sansa’s character as the love interest instead simply makes sense to me.

But I only came to this conclusion because I consider Sansa to be of equal importance. It’s more or less a precondition of even consider Jonsa, even more so to ship it in a canon kind of way.

Now, to put an end to this little rant and get back to the original topic, D@ny and Ary@ stans regularly accuse Sansa of “stealing their narrative” or at least “Sansa-stans want her to have it all”, so it’s no surprise that they a) don’t want her to be key player and b) subsequently don’t want her / can’t see her ending up with Jon. There are a few very great posts out there dealing with the issue why Sansa is hated so much, but I think it comes down to (to get off topic one more time, because it’s my speciality)

Misogyny. Feminine characters always attract a lot of unwarranted hate (female characters and general, but at least on tumblr … one can undeniably see a certain trend), more so the ones who don’t take off their clothes. There’s this really nice post going around that as a female character you either have to a) be a sex object or b) act like a man. I would link to it if only I could find it. I’m not going to add much to this, it has been talked about many times.

You can’t live vicariously through her. Sansa’s narrative often is … very frustrating. Nobody “wants to be Sansa”. People want to be the rebellious, fighting girl who doesn’t take any shit, they want to be the mother of dragons who goes around the world freeing slaves, they want to be Jon kicking some White Walker ass, they want to be the future three-eyed-raven (though Bran is seriously underappreciated by the fandom), they want to be a smart ass know it all, like Tyrion. They don’t want to be the girl stuck in situations she has almost no means of escaping. The sad truth to this is though, most people, if they found themselves in the same situation, “would be Sansa”. Most people aren’t active heros who fight against the unjust system all the time, most people aren’t geniuses, or brave enough to put themselves in harm’s way for the sake of other all the time. I actually fell in love with Sansa’s character because of that. (Though I have to admit myself, I was rather indifferent to her character for partially those exact reasons myself). It’s refreshing and a honest take on human nature to have a heroine who mostly has to resort to endurance and passive resistance. Mostly, not always. I don’t subscribe to “Sansa is weak and useless” weekly. Don’t get me wrong. She’s awesome and badass in her right, it’s just a bit harder to notice and appreciate. In this aspect she’s probably the most “realistic” character of the key six and people don’t like to read the truth about themselves. They wanna read about what they want to and could be.

People are projecting. HARD. I spent a lot of time wondering why Sansa gets so much shit for her “evil deeds and traits”, in a series where people kill other people, shove children out of windows, burn people alive, rape a slave prostitute, and so on and so forth. And you know what? It’s easier to “forgive” those things because they are so absolutely horrendous. All these things are so far removed from our everyday reality (for most people at least), that it severs our emotional connection to it. Don’t get me wrong, we can still judge their behaviour, we can still emphasize with the victims, but we have no personal experience to connect to. But Sansa’s “villainous characteristics” (especially those of s1/agot)? An ignorant, privileged white girl who is mean to her little sister for being different, is caught up in some naive classicism, does stupid shit because she has a crush on some asshole everyone else could sniff out a mile away and always has to be so fucking perfect all the time. NOW THAT IS A “BAD GUY” WE KNOW! That’s a “villain” we all encountered in real life. To put this in different terms: I’ve never been pushed out a window for witnessing a incestous relationship between two people of high social standing (nor has anyone close to me), but have I felt victimized by my sister being the pretty, perfect girl, while I was the loud, unruly, unattractive tomboy? Yeeeeeeeeeeees. Have I ever actually lived through the experience of my elder sister getting nicer gifts than me, because “I would just break them”? Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss again. I grew out of it after elementary school, of course (okay, to be completely honest here, I might have still struggled with it during puberty, but thank god that’s also behind me). This also works the other way around: I have never been in the situation of “having” to push a kid out of a window, because it witnessed my incestous relationship and I, my sister-lover and our three children would lose their heads if he told anyone. I’ve never had slave master nail 163 children to crosses to piss me off. Idk, man. I have no idea what I would do. I never had to deal with shit like this. Who am I to judge? But then people look at the “mean” things Sansa did and go I WOULD NEVER EVER EVER. (though they probably did at some point in their life).

Since this is tumblr, I have to note something: I don’t think this applies to everyone who dislikes Jonsa. I don’t think that everyone who dislikes Jonsa also dislikes Sansa. I’m not even saying that everyone dislikes Sansa for the reasons listed above. Before you accuse me of any of this, make sure you didn’t fall victim to a logical fallacy. I had enough of those lately. Those are just a few of my personal observations and conclusions, that I think, apply to quite a few people. If your reasonings and opinions are completely different, great, I’m not arguing, just don’t give me any shit about it.

So to draw some final conclusion for this long ass post: Jonsa of all ships is so bitterly fought about and/or not taken seriously, because a) Sansa attracts a lot of hate for several reasons, b) Sansa is considered to be too unimportant to be the “romantic lead” kind of main character grand love interest.

Shipping Jonsa is not “delusional” if you a) consider all three lead ladies to be of equal significance and b) don’t dislike Sansa. (Though since this is Tumblr, I might point it out one more time: This does not mean that anyone this applies to also ships Jonsa. This does not mean that this doesn’t also apply to people who don’t ship Jonsa. This does not mean that only people who stan Sansa hard ship Jonsa - I myself actually started shipping it because I staned Jon so much and I need my baby to be happy. Some people who fulfill both a) and b) might still believe that Jonsa shipper are “delusional” simply because it’s the common narrative of a big portion of the fandom.)

… Now that I think about this, the entire question could have been answered with the last paragraph alone, but you know how we do, go big or go home.

#caitnan #jonsa #anti-jonerys #shipping of got #meta #kind of #sansa stark #sansa hate #long post #really long post

99 notes · View notes