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arthurtaylorlester · 2 months

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malevolent season 4 was... something, that's for sure

i want to preface this by saying i LOVE malevolent as a show and this is no means an attack on the creator or anything like that, i don't think i'll ever stop listening halfway, no matter how i feel about it. i'm not saying season 4 is all bad either.

it is a deviation for malevolent, though i found it VERY well written up until part 31 (and part 31 is my favourite malevolent episode ever)

s4 started off really strong for me, part 29 set the tone really well, much lighter after s3's emotional lows. the butcher was an interesting enough new villain to put yarson aside for now. part 30 had some charming moments, but the real star of the early season was part 31, a truly incredibly written and directed look into arthur's psychology. it truly gave us everything, from lore to highly comedic moments (to me)(no because why was arthur dreaming of waking up next to a shirtless man who tried to kill him)

parts 32 through 34 i'm not sure about, but i can write them off as awkward mid season points. part 34 was an interesting shift in perspective, but here is where my doubt's about the season's villains started rising

but the oscar & scratch arcs.... guys i'm gonna be honest, i might be oscar's #1 hater

scratch and oscar in this season were functionally useless filler. it's not unusual for arthur and john get sidetracked during their missions, but it usually ends up leading them right where they need to be by the season finale. this felt like a parenthesis that killed any tension created by the butcher.

this season had, quite unnecessarily, 3 antagonists. now this wouldn't be a terrible idea, had they been established before. but no. for some reason it was chosen to leave the only villain we could genuinely be afraid of alone, in favour of introducing not one but two antagonists yet to be established. neither because of this have the adequate fear factor (the butcher is better about this) and both get the most abysmal ends i could've imagines. what do you mean scratch is just gone like that after causing some emotional conflict with his deal. what do you mean the butcher was KOed by the fucking priest with a bedpan? what? that's it? you expect me to be scared or even care about the butcher now?

speaking of the priest. i want to like oscar i really do but. he's a terribly written character. we get to know him while arthur is teaching john intimidation tactics so out of gate our initial impression of him is as someone meek. and then in part 36 after "sorting out" the butcher, oscar just dumps out his trauma point blank to someone he's spoken to a handful of times in the past 3? 4? days.

malevolent in general has a bit of an exposition problem, but it usually works out if it's john expositing because. that's literally all he can do. but when a character with more agency do it, it makes them flat. oscar didn't have to tell us all that, he didn't have a reason. arthur confessing to 7 murders isn't a prompt to make himself vulnerable like that. i did not start caring for him, just because he had a tragic backstory. that's... not how you get someone to care about a character. oscar could be defined as a static character, and while it's not too unusual for a static character to be the focal point of an arc, i don't think it works the way most authors think it does.

also the worms in the farm only happened because of him messing with the stove so like. that's not helping his case.

the completely unnecessary farm arc concluded, we return oscar to the hospital, with arthur caving very quickly to john's demands if he truly cared about oscar so much. and so, a single episode before the finale, we get properly acquainted our main ally for the showdown. a choice definitely, but i feel like this one worked out pretty well considering noel had time to simmer before we got know of his past + he had interesting conflict with john and arthur.

and then there's the big one, the thing that appalls me entirely. leaving larson and yellow, the main villains of the finale COMPLETELY alone until the very end. why? why would you choose to not use them earlier? we spent so much time away from larson, so we weren't really as scared of him as we were at the end of part 28 (i literally was listening to the last 15 minutes of this ep on my toes because i thought he might do something) and we had had no CHANCE to even fear yellow, since we knew nothing of his power?

and what, the butcher is on our side now because noel granted his release? just like that? i know he's a contract killer but arthur insulted him to his face, he can believe they understand each other but did he feel no anger?

the finale did well, considering the context it was given to work with, though i did not understand the point of the memory thing... that didn't go anywhere? because not arthur nor noel actually lost anything. we don't know what the box was for, we only know some guy wrote "the birth of my son" on slip of paper and put it in. arthur assumed it was a memory, when it just as well could've been a literal offering, arthur assumed it would involve losing said memory, and they assumed it was related. initially i thought it would only go through if the ritual took place, which, it didn't. but reading back here is no further clarification on it. hold your angst horses, blindfaith enjoyers

i feel like john physically manifesting, if now an established power of his, was very cheap. unless it was a one-off, or some sort of power up, it just literally took away the main premise of the show. an all-powerful god rendered powerless by being stuck in some guy's mind and being forced to confront the troubles of someone infinitesimal to him. if you let him astral project and save people, then what's the point?

but i do actually think it was a one-off, so we'll see how it goes

simply put, john saving arthur when he jumped in s3 had more impact than this because he did it with a single, human, hand. no magic.

it was pleasant to have kayne and his expected chaos back, jarring as always. john's deal was exactly what we all thought it was going to be, maybe more about himself than arthur, but i don't think anyone can fault him for that.

one things though, and this questions may just be me not remembering, is arthur supposed to know that yellow is a separate entity from john when they realise larson has him in his head? because i remember arthur just assuming that 'yellow' just had all of his memories returned in part 23, and therefore not knowing that he's a separate guy from john.

just in general, i feel like s4 had a LOT of good ideas that weren't given enough room to breathe and therefore weren't written very well that really weighed down my enjoyment of the season. that's not to say there weren't things i liked. the emotional moments hit just as hard, like reconciling with daniel, the comedy was on point (genuinely this season was so funny) and even the most out of pocket thing arthur has ever said, calling john a child, no matter how much discourse it caused, was actually sort of in character for him? i mean arthur is an asshole so like i get why his immediate reaction to his severely emotionally unintelligent friend being possessive is babying him. they're awful people. they deserve each other. it made somewhat sense in retrospect.

all this to say, while i didn't hate s4, i think it had a lot of writing issues, especially when comparing it to the other 3, and it could've been done WAYY better but hey we all have our moments.

i await anxiously intermezzo's public release and the rest of season 5 👀

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my-mt-heart · 1 year

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I think most people agree that Gimple wasn't a good showrunner, but what I don't understand is how could he write an episode like The Grove if he doesn't understand storytelling? It was all about the emotional journey. How did seasons 7-8 happen and was he really responsible for season 11 being so bad?

I highly recommend watching this video about "the historic downfall of The Walking Dead." I don't agree with everything this person says, but his analysis of Gimple's writing is spot on.

The video doesn't address Carol's or Caryl's arcs specifically though, so I'll walk us through that here. Yes, Gimple wrote The Grove, which became one of the most iconic episodes of the series. He gave us the most iconic Caryl scene of the series when they reunited in No Sanctuary. He gave us Carol's "sorry, Pookie," Daryl's anger at Rick after he banished Carol, the symbolism of them walking the same paths after losing the prison, the water jug, Consumed...I could go on. My point is, that was all under Gimple.

But. Instead of leaning further into the praise Carol and Caryl were getting in S4/S5 like any good showrunner would've, Gimple started to do the opposite come S6. There were crumbs sprinkled here and there throughout the remaining seasons of his era, but none of it ever really went anywhere. He had Carol start to distance herself from Daryl, pairing her up randomly with Tobin and isolating her at the Kingdom while at the same time working really hard to bring Rick's love life to the forefront.

It's one thing to ensure the lead of the show has a compelling arc, but why should that mean alienating another very significant, very loyal fanbase to do it? Why did Caryl fans only start to regain hope again in S9, but especially in S10? Where was Gimple? What was he working on at that point? Why did the hope suddenly drop off a cliff in S11? Why was Carol sidelined after driving the story in S10? What a funny coincidence that her reduced screentime eventually turned into exiting the spinoff entirely. Why was Daryl acting so OOC? Why were Caryl's interactions so minimal and dry as if their arcs didn't revolve around each other in the previous season? Where was Gimple then? What wasn't he working on at that point?

I know Gimple was responsible for S11's mess because I have reliable sources, but anyone can observe it for themselves by comparing it to previous seasons. It feels much more like S6-S8 than S9-S10.

At this point, it's pretty well-known where I stand on this matter. I don't support Gimple. Not at all. Those who disagree are free to disagree, but just know that I'm not interested in having another debate right now. I'd rather focus on finally getting Melissa/Carol/Caryl back <3 <3 <3

#caryl #caryl spinoff #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #darylneedscarol

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thestobingirlie · 1 year

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i saw a post by a nancy stan complaining about people having rightful criticisms of nancy. and said that steve was useless and nancy had saved everyone's lives multiple times.

and i was just thinking where? are we watching the same show?

season 1, she didnt save anyones life, in fact her and Jonathan would have been demogorgan food if steve hadn't come back and saved them.

season 2, shes more interested in putting everyone in danger to get justice for barb than dealing with what is going on. she doesn't get involved until after the lab. the closest thing to saving was when she used the hot poker to force the mindflayer out of will. steve on the other hand saved the kids repeatedly. in the junkyard against the demodogs, against billy, and in the tunnels. like he uses his bat to free mike from the vines that trapped him in the tunnels.

season 3, the first half nancy just had the attitude of wanting to do what she wants to, and ignore everyone else. sure, the driscoll thing helped the connection that multiple people were being flayed, but I don't recall her doing any saving. jonathan and lucas saved el from the mindflayer. steve protected robin erica and dustin as best as he could from the russians, erica and dustin saved robin and steve from the russians. el saved scoops troop from the russians. steve saved nancy and the others from billy by crashing a car into him.

season 4? arguably it was because of nancy they knew music would work against vecna, but I would 100% argue that is more on robin, because robin was the one who got them the chance to actually speak to victor creel. and steve was the one to recognise max was in trouble at the graveyard. she didn't save steve, he pretty much saved himself once he had back up. and the plan failed. steve said he didn't like it, and he was overruled and it failed.

(the nancy not saving people anon)

i forgot to add- i think its the gun thing. in all four seasons, they've given her a gun and acted like it made a difference. when in canon, her guns have never helped (s1, the demogorgan doesn't take damage from bullets, s2, she holds a gun but doesn't even fire it bc el does the work, s3 she fires repeatedly at billy and it does nothing, s4 she has the shotgun which does nothing to vecna). and some nancy stans seem to think because she has a gun shes a badass that saves people with it.

(i think this is also why they stopped giving steve his bat. because he has repeatedly used it to save the others. they want to take that power away from him, and just make nancy seem more of a badass girlboss with her guns)

yeah, most of the characters haven’t really directly saved lives in the show. and it’s understandable to want your favourite character to have that action hero moment, but there’s no need to just make shit up and lie lol.

everyone’s has moments that impacted others, and i don’t think anyone could be removed and everything would be exactly the same, but yeah. nancy hasn’t saved everyone’s lives multiple times, she’s had her life saved more times then you could argue that she even distantly saved someone.

and i agree!! i think this idea comes from the way the duffers use her guns and make her out to be a badass, using them in really tense moments you could use in edits. but they often ultimately mean and do nothing.

and it’s irritating because if they wanted nancy to be an actual badass, they could do that! they could have her guns be life-saving, but for some reason they just don’t. they want to make out nancy to be this action hero, but do nothing to actually make her deserving of such a title.

(and i will always hate the way the nail bat has been left in the dirt)

(also with the music, i think that was robin that figured it out, so, yeah, nancy gave them victor creel’s name, but it was robin that found the information on him, that found out where he was, that got them into the building and that found out it was music that saved him)

#nancy wheeler critical #not really but i don’t want to start arguments lol #stranger things #asks #anon

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admirablespoling · 2 years

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Not sure how I went from casual Stranger Things fan to Byler truther literally overnight but here I am to give my take as a once-casual viewer.

I never really looked into any of the subtext in the show until early s4 when I had a come to Jesus moment. I rewatched seasons 1-3 recently so I think having the whole story fresh in my mind helped me see the truth a little more clearly than many other casual viewers. ANYWAY.

In seasons 1 and 2 I could tell that Will and Mike were extremely close, but I never really looked at it as anything more because they were still little to me and Mike seemed to be innocently interested in El.

Season 3 was when I started feeling a shift in my perspective, but only somewhat. I was torn between “Mike is just a stupid teen boy and Will misses his friend” and “wait, do these two like each other?” But again, I didn’t look too much into it because it wasn’t BLATANTLY OBVIOUS to me at the time that these boys are more than friends.

In comes season 4. I literally immediately knew that there was something going on. As soon as Mike gave Will the bro tap I thought “wait, MIKE? Crying while confessing that becoming your friend was the best thing I have ever done MIKE is brushing off his bestie that he went to the ends of the earth to save?” As the season went on, I just knew I was not delusional and that I was literally witnessing these boys pining for each other, so I decided to do some digging around to see what was out there on this topic. That’s how I ended up here. I’ve read the Google docs, the analyses, etc. and all of it just makes so much sense. I truly, 100% believe that Byler was always meant to be endgame. This show spends a LOT of time developing their relationship and it’s not for nothing. It’s honestly beautiful and pure and makes me want to cry. I don’t know how I was so blind all these years, but holy shit, the DB are good…they are really good. They had me in the first half, not gonna lie.

The proof that stands out to me the most:

-Mike’s shadow is basically an open closet. That last s3 kiss in Will’s room + Mike’s one way sign in s4… cmon, they are basically shouting Mike’s next big arc to us in the last few(s3)/first few(s4) minutes. This is absolutely, positively on purpose and it’s honestly brilliant foreshadowing.

-Mike and Will are basically attached at the hip. Even after their dramatic argument in the rain in s3 which is never fully resolved, they are quite often within a foot of each other. Even while Mike is dating El. They are both very comfortable being up on each other until Mike’s airport stunt in s4, but it all comes back after Mike lets his guard down and becomes mush for Will again. The shootout starts, and they basically cling to each other. They are also both totes cool with Will holding Mike’s hand over the payphone. I could go on but if you get it, you get it. These two are COMFY together

-“We’re friends, we’re friends” We know, babes. Do you? This line feels suspiciously similar to “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” in that they both come up in arguments where Will calls Mike out for pulling away from him. Mike is supposed to be oblivious to Will’s crush so…who is Mike really trying to convince?

-Will’s drawings El has lots of Mike reminders in her rooms in s3 + s4. Mike has no visible El items, but Will drawings are permanent fixtures in his basement. I don’t think Mike even thinks twice about it, he just cherishes those effing drawings. (So sweet) Then Will painted something for him that Mike likely thought was for a girl…I’m…I’m going to cry. Bet that gets added to the wall before Mike’s bags are even unpacked.

-Where is Mike’s attention really? Mike acted like he wasn’t giving Will any mind when he arrived in Cali but then called out his eye rolling, moping etc. Did Will have your attention, or nah, Mike? Will seemed to feel genuinely hurt by Mike’s words and Mike picked up on that. He soon gave a genuine apology, something that he only ever consistently offers Will.

-speaking of the apology, that shit was FLIRTY. Mike didn’t have to force it, he just said what he was thinking and Will looked like he felt so validated. They both smiled and looked so happy to be back on good terms and ugh it was just the sweetest thing. Their connection is effortless and only wavers when Mike panics + Will feels ignored. This did not feel the slightest bit platonic. Zero percent.

-the triple take. Like, come on. A TRIPLE take?? Mike, baby, it’s gonna be ok. Will loves you, too. This shot was one of the most blatant indicators of Mike’s internal struggle in s4 IMO

-season 4 arcs Mike’s arc with El and his arc with Will are happening at the same time. That is because they are the same arc. This should be setting alarm bells off in general audience heads but I know that many people cannot seem to connect the damn dots still. They. Love. Each. Other.

Anyway…you’ve converted me. I wanted to put my two cents in as someone who has only fairly recently caught on to validate that you guys who have seen it for years are NOT delusional, you are doing the Lord’s work by compiling all of the data that us normies are too dense to see. Long live Byler!

#byler #byler s4 #mike and will #mike wheeler i know what you are

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timetragic · 1 year

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Morgana felt underdeveloped after S2

After Season 2, Morgana's personality didn't quite change. By Season 4, she became a bland villain who had so much potential. Someone here recently shared a Mergana amv of bad blood, and it honestly gave me so many ideas and chills for what could've happened in the story.

I wish Morgana knew about Merlin's powers in season 3. Morgana and Merlin already disliked each other, but having both of them know each other's secret would've been interesting. In this season, Morgana still isn't powerful enough to make a mark. She is still learning from Morgause and relies on regular weapons. Morgana's power this season comes from her status of being Uther's Ward/Daughter. Seeing her manipulating Uther, so he'll execute Merlin or just something bad, could've been an interesting plot for an episode or made existing ones like "The Castle of Fyrien" even more interesting Maybe at the end of this season, Merlin ends up capturing Morgana.

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Y'know how the title screen changes from s3 - s4. Instead of, "the destiny of a great kingdom rests on the shoulders of a young boy..." it changes to, "the destiny of a great kingdom rests on the shoulders of a young man.."

Well, I don't see it.

One of my main critiques of Merlin is how he doesn't learn from his mistake with Morgana. He made Morgana feel alone, which prompted her to look into other places for help, leading to Morgause. He made the exact mistake with Mordred in Season 5, which was very hard to watch, especially episode 5 of that season.

He keeps making the same mistakes. He still isn't bold enough with his magic. An idea that would be interesting to explore is what if Gaius died in the S3 finale. Merlin already shows how he knows a lot about medicine, especially in S5, so why not roll with it. If Gaius dies, Merlin should take Gaius' place as a court physician. So many more plot points and stakes can be brought up as a result. It also shows Merlin's maturity as he grows.

Even though Gaius would be dead in this universe, I still wouldn't want Merlin to feel alone with his magic. I deeply respect Lancelot, and I'm a little disappointed how he was mainly used as a plot point for Gwen's and Arthur's relationship. The interactions he has with Merlin in the S4 premier are so on point. They should've used that a little more. I wish Lancelot was there for Merlin and that he didn't die.

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Maybe in S4, Merlin tries to help Morgana and reason with her to show her how Arthur will develop a better and safer world for all people, including those of magic.

Morgana rejects this idea but does listen after a while or so Merlin thinks. She ends up escaping somewhere along S4 and ends up in a Druid camp. The druids will start to help her clear her mind more, and she is starting to become more of the Morgana we once knew. She still distrusts Arthur and Merlin, but to a lesser extent, and she doesn't really hate Gwen really anymore.

Whilst in the Druid camp, she started hearing about this Druid boy who sought more power to make a difference. Later on, this same boy would find Morgana. And of course, that boy is Mordred.

Although it isn't as apparent as Morgause, Mordred, in a way, wants Arthur gone and replaced with someone who knows better. Someone who will make a change on the kingdom. Mordred pities Merlin for believing that Arthur will make peace. Mordred's plan is to become a knight of Camelot and have Arthur trust him. When the time is right, Mordred would assume power of the throne, and he will start taking charge of Camelot. As soon as the new magic policies were put in place, there would be terrible disasters since it would be difficult to manage the amount of new magic that would surround the land. However, Mordred doesn't know that could happen, and he asks Morgana for his help. Morgana, after considering, ends up declining his offer.

We don't get to see Morgana after a while and instead get to see some Mordred and Merlin interactions. This time, Merlin would heavily distrust Mordred at first, but then Mordred grew onto him, and he found himself trusting Mordred.

In the Series Finale, Mordred innacts his plan with a lot of help from other Sorcerer's he already recruited plus an entire Kingdom's army. Aithusa would also appear in this universe. However, she protects Mordred instead of Morgana. Morgana sees a vision of what is going to happen, and she sees the cruelty of people being killed. She goes back to Camelot to do something. She is very much undercover, and she tries to perform a spell that can help Camelot. Unfortunately, said spell helps them at first, but backfires later on. That spell is one of the reasons that would lead to Arthur's inevitable death. As more and more people are being hurt, Merlin has no choice but to sue his powers to protect them. Arthur is undoubtedly upset at first, similarly to how he was in the original last episode, but he forgives Merlin in the end, and one of his last wishes as King is for Morgana to lead the way for people with magic to be accepted in Camelot.

Mordred would be killed, and the rest of his army would be defeated. Morgana would take the role of Queen, and she would be the one who would end up uniting Albion. Merlin would be Court Sorcerer and take an apprentice he would train to be a physician.

-l

I wrote this up as soon as I thought of it, so I'm sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense, lol. Who knows, I might change my mind tomorrow and decide that this is actually the worst idea to ever be thought of.

TL:DR - I made up how I would write the story after s2 if I actually had good writing skills. Or someone else can write this, idk.

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tsukidrama · 2 years

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PINK ANON HERE-- FINALLY GOT AROUND TO WATCHING STRANGER THINGS SEASON FOUR VOLUME TWO. SAFE TO SAY I AM DEVASTATED, TRAUMATIZED, VIOLENTLY ILL, ETC. ANYWAY, HAVE A NICE DAY. SORRY THIS IS CHAOTIC. <3

omg. i feel like a monster for receiving a follow up ask before i answered your first one 😭 im so sorry my darling it's not you, it's me. i don't even really have an excuse, im just depressed as shit and overwhelmed by literally everything. i haven't been writing very much either

RIGHT THOUGH?? i feel like it's been long enough that i could talk about spoilers openly but juuuuust in case i'll put them under a read more

EDDIE. EDDIE EDDIE EDDIE MY FUCKING LOVE...... i literally don't even know where to start with him. i was obsessed with his character from s4 p1 and I WAS SO DEVASTATED. i know we all were like COOMMMEEEE ONNNNN when he died. it was a good death and a worthy death but REALLy? what i specifically requested was for NO death and he still died. and with everyone assuming he was a devil-worshipping serial killer too, when he was actually a sweet angel. i feel so robbed, ive read a lot of fix-it fic about my poor sweet boy. he went straight to heaven 😢

JOPPER ALSO MEANS EVERYTHJNG TO ME SO IT WAS SUCH A TREAT TO SEE THEM FINALLY REUNITED AND WORKING TOGETHER AGAIN.

annoyed at the duffer brothers for what they did to will and robin. July 1st and they rly took every ounce of hope away from us gays. borderline homophobic honestly 😬 especially whenever Mike used the dialogue will gave him for ELEVEN? ugh get fucked. z

everything having to do with Max totally gutted me. it was just, absolutely completely devastating all around. i really don't think eleven should've brought her back - yeah she's breathing but did that make it better for anybody? if she's brain dead hooked up to life support then what does that do other than make it harder? maaaayyyyybe eleven can go into her brain the way she does but my hopes aren't high. im not sure how i feel about that storyline.

omfg can we also talk about ERICA SINCLAIR BEST CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE SHOW

very interested to see what they'll do with season 5. i got very excited whenever the upside-down flakes started showering down on Hawkins. both dimensions existing in the same place is going to be.... wild. i hope that they're able to keep the essence of the show while delivering a satisfying final season.

all in all, i really do think that season 4 was great and the best yet. BUT HOLY SHIT.

#pink anon #stranger things #tsuki answers

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i-aim-to-overanalyze · 2 years

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I’ve been rewatching Ninjago out of nostalgia and I’m currently finishing Season 3 which is actually?? Decent?? I know the reason it probably leaves a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths is the Nya love triangle and the villains could’ve been better but it feels like this is the season that the plot kicks it up a notch?

Like don’t get me wrong, I grew up rewatching Season 1 the most and love it even if some aspects haven’t aged well *cough*everyonemakingfunofZaneforwearingpink*cough*

Season 2 I think has a great first half (the idea that Garmadon purposefully tries to thwart the Ninja in ways to prevent his son from reaching his full potential so they don’t have to fight is interesting) but it’s second half feels disconnected and even rushed a bit for what was supposed to be the series finale

The fight scenes are also just painful to watch and I laugh at how much of the time there’s like a group of them watching an one-on-one battle without making an effort to like,, help that person out

My favorite instance of this is when Cole tells Kai to take on the Stone Warrior in the museum like?? Why wouldn’t all of you fight him?? Why Kai specifically??

Side note, I love how the Overlord was clearly supposed to be the most ultimate evil bad guy ever and how much of an emphasis they made on “Oh remember this past season 1 event? Can’t believe this is our final battle!” *proceeds to make thirteen more seasons*

But with Season 3 it’s like

Ok yeah the Ninja becoming teachers in-between seasons when they’re supposedly still teenagers is weird which also keeping S4 in mind i refuse to see them as anything but in their early twenties excluding Lloyd

Yeah Nya deserved so much better this season. Like really between Season 2 where she received barely any action as Samuari X and the love triangle, I don’t know what is worse but at least it felt like she received more screen-time

Yeah Evil Wu could’ve probably been explored more and it would’ve been more interesting if he actually,, spoke

Yeah it doesnt make any sense the Ninja knew the Serpentine had been stuck in the tunnels or the Serpentine saying they locked themselves in the tombs when later seasons contradict this but thats just Ninjago for you

But even including all that there’s some really great stuff like!

The decision to split Lloyd and the other ninja up actually works out well?? It gives a chance for the Original Four to shine on their own and for Lloyd to be still the super important Chosen One

Which then the writers gave us Lloyd and Garmadad bonding time which was so great

The fact they decided to make Sensei Garmadon swear off fighting and weapons makes him so interesting?? He will very much fvck you up but by allowing you to be the person to fvck yourself up

The whole interaction he and Wu had regarding protecting Ninjago’s future was great and you know the writers were cowards that feared if they didn’t kill Sensei Garmadon off that he’d prevent Wu from hiding secrets which is like 90% of where the suspense in Ninjago stems from

If you ignore how dumb the love triangle is, I do love the fact like others pointed out, it very much seems the reason Cole even starts showing an interest in Nya is because he does it out of spite for Jay getting upset at something he wasn’t even aware of

I love Cyrus Borg--his excitement about the future of technology is infectious and I love how easily the writers could’ve had him against Pixel leaving his side and instead Cyrus encouraged her to go do what she wanted

The poor man does get captured and cyborgified twice in one season oof

Zane’s and Pixel’s relationship is actually pretty cute?? It’s literally the plot of Wall-E but I don’t care it’s still cute, whether you see it as romantic or platonic.

The idea of an evil eldritch spirit like the Overload being a computer virus isn’t that bad of an idea. I mean, he’s still a ridiculously weak villain but it’s still cool.

The ninja go to space!!! Is it absolutely ridiculous? Yeah, but it happened and I still think it’s hilarious it happened.

And then Zane’s sacrifice at the end?? It doesn’t matter if you know he comes back, it still hurts!

Also! The music is good?? Like S1 and S2 had decent music but it’s even better here?? Especially the Weekend Whip remix. This lego show’s music should not be as good as it is at times.

#lego ninjago #ninjago #ninjago zane #lord garmadon #garmadon #ninjago nya #ninjago cole #cyrus borg #ninjago pixel

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gammija · 3 years

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The final Web!Martin evidence list

Now that canon is done, and we’ve got word of god confirmation that Web!Martin wasn’t complete nonsense, I decided to go back to my lil chronological evidence list and actually clean it up a bit, delete parts that in hindsight weren't all that indicative, and put everything in a slightly more readable format. (Obligatory disclaimer that i don’t and never did believe or advocate for some kind of evil web!martin, and that I'm not intending to connect a moral judgement to martin (or anyone else for that matter) having some of these traits)

So here: The (hopefully, please) final list with Web!Martin Evidence! Presented in order of importance, according to. me

The final (hopefully) Web!Martin evidence list

(In order from most to least obvious)

Spiders

I mean, it’s called the Web. TMA reiterates quite a few times that Martin liked spiders. Sometimes it IS that easy.

MAG022: Martin: "I like spiders. Big ones, at least. Y’know, y’know the ones you can see some fur on; I actually think they’re sort of cute -"

MAG038: | Sasha: "A spider?" Jon: "Yeah. I tried to kill it…" [...] Sasha: [Chuckles] "Well, I won’t tell Martin." Jon: "Oh, god. I don’t think I could stand another lecture on their importance to the ecosystem."

MAG059: Jon: "I have done my best to prevent Martin reading this statement in too much detail. I have no interest in having another argument about spiders."

MAG079: Jon: "Apparently, biologically, his account of the spiders doesn’t make any sense according to Martin."

MAG197: Martin: “What? Because I like spiders? Well, used to.”

Lies and subterfuge

Martin is able to use lying and subterfuge to achieve his goals, and is called manipulative a few times.

Lies:

MAG022: Martin: "[He] became slightly more co-operative after I lied to him and told him that one of the upstairs residents had buzzed me in."

MAG056: Martin: "I lied on my CV."

MAG158: Peter: “But you said –” Martin: “Honestly, I mostly just said what I thought you wanted to hear.”

MAG164: Jon: "You – I actually believed you!"

MAG189: Martin: “Sorry. Sorry, John. Not sure how much everything up there actually understood what was going on. But, y’know, I didn’t want to take any chances so it made sense to… um…” Jon: “Put on a show?” Martin: “Yeah, basically, more or less.”

MAG191: Martin: "That's not true." Arun: "Liar!"

Subterfuge:

The plan in 118, which revolved around convincing Elias that Martin was only “acting out”, to create a distraction for Melanie. (Also compare the way he evades giving a straight answer here with the way Annabelle talks in 196.)

Working with Peter in s4 under false pretenses, to distract him from Jon and eventually try to learn what Peter wanted.

Manipulation accusations:

These, I know, are somewhat contentious, since it’s mostly villains saying this to him. I’m still including them, since

1): From a media analysis standpoint, being mentioned 3 times is a sign to pay attention, even when it may not be the full truth.

2): I only see it as describing Martin’s behaviour in the previous points, not as a moral judgement; Especially since he almost always ‘manipulates’ people in positions of power over him.

Still, if it bothers anyone, feel free to ignore these.

MAG138: Martin: "That’s it? No, no monologue, no mind games? You love manipulating people!" Elias: "That makes two of us."

MAG186: Martin: “I can be a real manipulative prick, you know that?” Also Martin: “Oh yeah.”

MAG196: Annabelle: “Because you always managed to get what you wanted through smiles and shrugs and stammerings that weren’t nearly as awkward as they seemed.” [SMALL SOUND OF MARTIN’S CONCESSION TO THE POINT] Martin: “Point taken.”

The Lonely/the Web

The Lonely and the Web sometimes affect Martin to similar degrees.

In season 3, when Martin is getting used to reading statements for the first time, most of them leave him emotionally affected: MAG084, MAG088, MAG090,

MAG095: Martin: “S-S-Statement… done.” [HEAVY BREATHING & TREMBLING AS MARTIN STEADIES HIMSELF] “I don’t like recording these. There. I-I said it.”,

MAG098: Martin: [Panting] “End of statement.” [Deep breath] “I, um, I think I might need to sit down. Oh. Yeah, I am. Right. I don’t, uh, I’m not really sure if these are actually getting easier or harder. I mean I don’t feel –”

Only the last two statements he reads are remarkably easier. This might be a hint that Martin is just getting used to reading them, but the quote from MAG098 seems to contradict that. Either way, it’s likely not a coincidence that those last two happen to be the Lonely and the Web:

MAG108: Martin: “Statement ends.” (exhale) “That wasn’t so bad…”

MAG110: Martin: “Statement ends.” [...] “I mean, I think it sounds like a Jurgen Leitner book. About spiders. Hm. Good John didn’t have to read this one, anyway. I know he’s not a fan. Although, this one wasn’t too bad, actually! I – yeah. Anyway.”

In season 5, there are two powers’ Domains that actually affected Martin mentally, as opposed to only physically: the Lonely’s, in 170 (and arguably 186), and, depending on your interpretation, in 172, when Martin went exploring without knowing why he did so.

Proximity

Martin investigates a lot of the Web statements during season 1 to 3 (in other words, when the archive team still researches statements). The only ones he isn’t mentioned in during this period are MAG019 and MAG020, when he’s being harrassed by worms, and MAG081, which Jon records by himself outside of the institute.

Most notably, he’s the one who discovered the statement in MAG114, ‘Cracked Foundations’, which is the one statement in the entire show that sets up the interdimensional properties of HTR.

The Web!Lighter passed through Martin's hands first, before he gave it to Jon.

Similarly, Annabelle mostly spoke to Martin in season 5, despite most other Avatars usually focusing on Jon.

Aesthetics

Apart from the above obviously Web related areas, there are some other aesthetics which are mentioned in connection to both the Web and Martin, throughout canon.

These are describing the Web;

These are describing Martin.

Tapes:

Martin is the only character to treat the tape recorders as friends - any other character is either indifferent, or treats them as enemies.

MAG039: Martin: "I think the tapes have a sort of… low-fi charm."

MAG154 Martin: “Oh. Hi. Hello again.” … (small laugh) “Sorry pal, false alarm this time.”

MAG156 Martin: “Mm? Oh.” [HE LAUGHS, GENTLY.] “Yeah. (rustling paper) I was going to read one. Hate for you to miss it!” [SHORT, FORCED LAUGH, AS HE FLAPS THE STATEMENT AROUND.]

MAG170 Martin: “Oh. Oh, hello. What’s this? Wow, retro! What are you up to, little buddy; just – listening? That’s okay. It’s nice to have someone to talk to.”

MAG190 Jon: "[The tapes] seem to like [Martin]."

Retro:

MAG069: Statement: “I only saw Annabelle Cane once during this period. She wasn’t hard to pick out. She dressed like a vintage clothing store exploded on her, and her short bleach-blonde hair stood out sharply against dark skin.”

MAG160: Jon: “Anyways, don’t tell me the phonebox down there doesn’t appeal to your retro aesthetic.” Martin: “It – might. Maybe.”

MAG163: Annabelle/the Web callying Martin via an old payphone: [ A PHONE RINGS. IT’S NOT THE TINNY, ELECTRONIC SOUND OF A CELLPHONE – NO, THIS IS A TRUE, HEAVY, CLASSIC RING.] Martin: “Uh. John? Uh, J, John – the, uh, payphone that’s – here, for some reason – it’s ringing?”

Hatred of burns:

MAG067: Jack Barnabas’ statement: “I looked up and noticed within the corner of the room, where there had been a spider’s web this morning, there was just a faint wisp of smoke.” “Another held a bag that seemed to be full of candles, while a third had a clear plastic container filled with hundreds of tiny spiders.”

MAG139: Statement by member of Cult of the Lightless Flame: “The Mother of Puppets has always suffered at our hand; all the manipulation and subtle venom in the world means nothing against a pure and unrestrained force of destruction and ruin.” Agnes burned down Hilltop Road.

MAG145: The Web ties Gertrude to Agnes, stopping the Desolation’s ritual (the only Power whose ritual the Web is known to have prevented).

MAG167: Gertrude enlists Agnes’/the Desolation’s help in order to burn her assistant Emma, who was Web aligned.

MAG169: Martin: "Look, I just – don’t want to get burned, all right? It’s, it’s like my least favorite pain ever. [...] I, I legitimately hate burns, alright? They’re, they’re awful, and they scar horribly, and they just – it – it just makes me sick; I, I hate it. Hate it!"

Phrasing:

MAG039: Martin: "I’m trapped here. It’s like I can’t… move on and the more I struggle, the more I’m stuck. [...] It's just that whatever web these statements have caught you in, well, I’m there too. We all are, I think."

MAG079: Martin's poem: "The threads of people walking, living, lovi–"

MAG117: Martin: "This last couple of years, I’ve always been running, always hiding, caught in someone else’s trap, but, but now it’s my trap, and, well, I think it’ll work. I know, I know it’s not exactly intricate, but it felt good leaving my own little web. Oh, oh, Christ, I hope John doesn’t actually listen to these. “Good lord, is Martin becoming some sort of spider person?” No, John, it’s an expression, chill out! Besides, spiders are fine. I mean, yes, people are scared of them, obviously, but actual spiders, they just want to help you out with flies."

MAG167: Jon: “Methinks the Spider dost protest too much.” Martin: “Jon –” Jon: “Joking! Just joking.”

Personality:

How applicable these are depends heavily on how you interpret Martin's own personality, so your mileage may vary.

MAG008: Statement: “Nobody ever said a word against Raymond himself, though, who was by all accounts a kind and gentle soul [...]”

MAG123: Jon: "The Web does seem to have a preference for those who prefer not to assert themselves."

MAG147: Annabelles statement: "I discovered a deep and enduring talent inside myself for lying. [...] My manipulations were not intricate, but they were far beyond what was expected of a child my age, and I have always believed that the key to manipulating people is to ensure that they always under- or overestimate you. Never reveal your true abilities or plans."

Word of God and Annabelle

I kinda wanted to ‘prove’ that Web!Martin had quite a bit of evidence to back it up, hence this header being last. But of course, in this post-canon world, there are a few lines that most obviously confirm the theory:

MAG197: Martin is Web enough to be able to read the 'vibrations', like Annabelle, and see Jon and Basira (the latter being especially notable, as he hadn't known she was there beforehand): [CHITTERING, BUZZING AND HIGH-PITCHED SQUEALS CHANGE CADENCE] Martin: "Wait… Wait, hang on, is that him?" Annabelle: "Yes. I guess you’re better with the Web than we thought." Martin: "And – Wait, ha– No, uh… is that… Basira? He – He’s got Basira with him!" Annabelle: "Yes."

Season 5 Q&A part 2: Jonny: “Essentially, it was fascinating looking at the fandom and, like, the Web!Martin believers, because what they were doing was correctly picking up on hints dropped in the early seasons that were later, like, not exactly abandoned, but it was much more like, ‘Well, no, he does have like aspects of The Web to him, but he is moreover The Lonely.’ And that came about very… very organically, really. Because throughout Season 3 and going into Season 4, we had this conversation and we were like, ‘No, actually he's like-” Alex: “‘It can't be, it cannot be, it must be the other way round’ Yeah.”

(Note that they say “throughout season 3 and going into season 4,” which likely means that season 1, season 2, and at least part of season 3, aka half of the entire show, were written with Web!Martin as an intentional possibility.)

If you read all that, thanks so much! Obviously, Web!Martin never really came to fruition, so it's fine if you still don't like it. This is just a post explaining where it was coming from, at least for me and the other theorists I've spoken to.

#the magnus archives #magnus archives #tma #tma s5 #web!martin #web martin #webmartin #or as jonny called it:#spider!martin #tma theory #tma meta #martin blackwood #martin k blackwood #martin #tma martin #magnuspod #i feel like i say this every time too but #when i say martin lies a lot i dont mean that #in comparison to 'normal people'#i mean that in canon he gets specifically mentioned to lie; at a higher rate than the other protagonists #ditto for everything else. im not speaking about real life people who might have these traits. im doing a media analysis #my own real life bedroom curtains being blue dont mean im depressed but in media sometimes aesthetic themes can be deeper signifiers #and tma especially has some very strong aesthetic themes #ok i think im done talking now. webmartin theories always get me rambling #EDIT: oops i changed a part on mobile and now the formatting is a bit fucked #ill fix it back tomorrow #if anyone cares #EDIT EDIT: ok fixed it

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kaypeace21 · 3 years

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The fathers of Stranger Things: (narrative analysis)

This analysis will discuss all the dads in st. But will mostly focus on the parallels between Brenner, Lonnie, Neil,and Hopper. And the ramifications on their kids.And no i’m not saying Hopper is necessarily as bad as these other fathers/doesn’t have his reasons. But i think the parallels are worth mentioning.

Cycles of Ab*se & internalizing your father’s teachings

Baseball-We see in s2 the cycle of abuse is there- Billy mimics Neil, and then Max mimics Billy. And uses violence to stand up for herself- which earlier she said she was trying to combat … explaining she can be angry like Billy sometimes but she never wants to be like him (her nickname symbolizing this: aka ‘mad max’).

We see in s3 Neil taught Billy baseball and bullied him and called him a “p*ssy” so Billy as a child bullied others and calls them a “p*ssy” (internalizing his father’s teachings and probably venting his anger towards his father on to others). We also see Billy in s2 antagonizes max and demands “say it. say it!”And later Max yells at Billy “say it! say it” and attacks him with a bat. Showing that even Neil has influenced her to a certain extent (via Billy’s ab*se of Max).

We also see in s3 when Will is frustrated he destroys cb (a symbol of his artistic ambition/the day his father left) and destroys it with a baseball bat (and then we see the mf officially return) . We also see in s2, Will has a baseball next to the mf drawing (in his room). This is noteworthy due to the fact Jonathan in s1 asks if Will even likes baseball or is just doing it to appease his father. in s1, Will admits he isn’t a fan of baseball -showing how this ‘interest’ in baseball in later seasons just reflects his desire to win his father’s approval (through more sterotypically masculine hobbies). And we see how both Neil & Lonnie taught both their sons baseball- who are both named William -and who they would call “f*gs”. We also see in s1 Jonathan lugs around a baseball bat & his father’s gun -however neither tool is used by him in the end successfully. However, in s3 we see Jonathan using an axe (like Joyce) showing by this point he’s mostly taken on Joyce’s influence.

El’s spying , fighting the Russians, and lack of care for her safety shows she internalized Brenner’s teachings- We know in s1 El was trained to be a spy/weapon against the soviets (by Brenner). And in later seasons when it comes to her interpersonal relationships- she continues to spy on everyone around her. she spies on Mike despite his vocal discomfort in s3. Brenner specifically tells her to spy and repeat the words the guys are saying back to him- which is exactly what she does to Lucas and Mike (spying on them and repeating their words back to Max). And when Mike is concerned for her safety we also have El mimic Brenner’s words (from s1) . in s1 she is also said to be taken by Brenner to be a “weapon to fight the commies” and in s3 that’s exactly what she did! She does literally everything Brenner ever wanted from her!!!!!!!

Jonathan & Billy’s fights with Steve (reflect their father issues... which Steve accidentally triggered)- We see Billy and Jonathan both shoved into walls by their father’s . For Billy this is in a direct consequence of Max running away and for Jonathan- Will’s disappeareance. Billy first shoves Lucas into the wall similarly to Neil. And both Jonathan and Billy are told to “STOP”.

Billy also breaks a plate over Steve’s head. What’s interesting to note is in s3 we see Billy’s mother threw a plate at Billy’s father (so he was mimicking the dysfunction he saw as a child). kind of like how in s3 he backhands max (mirroring how neil backhanded his mother in the s3 flashback).

When it comes to jonathan we see jonathan tell nancy to leave and it’s “not worth it” to argue with Steve. However he stops in his tracks when Steve says he’s “like his father”. Then Steve proceeds to insult his family. And eventually Jonathan who throughout every season is generally portrayed as non confrontational attacks steve. similarly when Billy and Jonathan are beating Steve (who is laying on the ground)-multiple people are yelling for them to stop.But both are in too much of a triggered daze to stop themselves. Even when the cops come- Jonathan elbows the cop in the face and kicks steve with handcuffs on and even says handcuffed for the cop to “get off’ (like he told Lonnie earlier).

Both would rather do this to their own fathers-but Steve (and the cops) were used as their proxy instead. The fights might reflect what the boys have been taught by their fathers-aka vi*lence. Also on some subconscious level jonathan may have been like-oh you think i’m like my dad? I’ll show you what my dad is like (beats steve with no mercy).

***also, tw se*ual ab*se (you can skip)-during the jonathan fight they also bring up the “pervy photo sesh”- which jonathan took right after seeing his father. in the movies said to inspire s4 they often had a se*ually ab*sive dad/relative who would take innaproriate pics of his kids.uuuuugh. So jonathan may have just been mimicking that past behavior of his father. ugh.***

father’s ab*se reflects the supernatural

*if you know about my did theory-part 1 and 2 you’ve heard this stuff in detail but i’ll just give a brief synopsis

- The demogorgan that attacks Will in s1 is a demon called the “deep FATHER” in d&d.

-El first comes across the demogorgon (“deep father” ) eating it’s own eggs- symbolically this shows the ‘father’ is hurting it’s own kids ( a motif in the show)!

hunting/baseball/trunks connecting to Lonnie and the monsters: Will is attacked by the demogorgan in Lonnie’s old shed (and Will tries to defend himself with Lonnie’s old hunting gun). The demogorgan jumps on Jonathan and knocks the bat out of his hands, when he tries defending himself from the demogorgan( both activities: hunting/baseball Lonnie taught the boys). We also see the demogorgan also attack hunters and a deer- a ref to the lonnie & Jonathan hunting story about Bambi. In s1 we see Jonathan check Lonnie’s trunk to see if Will is there . But also we see the mf throw heather and later her parents in the trunk as well. Also when Jonathan starts talking car repair lingo in s3 -Will senses the mf (since Lonnie repaired cars as a hobby in s1). When lonnie returns in s1 jonathan asks Joyce “did that thing (demogorgan ) come back?” And when Lonnie says he explored around the quarry-jonathan mentions how the demogorgan only traveled a few miles around his house. When Lonnie says “someone should be held accountable” for what happened to Will- it transitions from lonnie hammering a nail into the wall to Mike piercing a pencil into paper explaining the hole in the upsidedown and how Will got trapped there- hinting at how Lonnie causing trauma to Will is the explanation for everything supernatural. Also need to point out how we zoom in on the lightbulb in Lonnie’s shed (after Will is taken) and they later zoom in on a red lighbulb (when Jonathan tears the innappropriate photos down from the red room) and then it transitions to the christmas lights. And then we see Lonnie berate Jonathan and there’s a glowing lightbulb beside Lonnie (to mirror him to the demogorgan).

-flowers & monstrous fathers: when Brenner (”papa”) first hurts Terry on a hospital bed she wakes up with sunflowers next to her bed. Lonnie in s1 is shown to have a sunflower blanket, and in s2 we see a sunflower book next to Will’s bed after he has a nightmare. We also see that the demogorgan ( ”deep father’-also called the “the man without a face” in s1 ) have a face that resembles a flower. Brenner also gave El a flower when on her bed (although not a sunflower) before forcing her to face the demogorgan for the 1st time.

I believe credit goes to the tumblr user lazy-storm-cloud for noticing Lonnie’s sunflower blanket. I noticed most of the flower imagery but never noticed that blanket until they mentioned it.

-supernatural “wounds” connecting to Will, El, Kali and fathers.The lab workers say the upsidedown’s influence over crops/hawkins is “spreading” while joyce says the tunnels Will drew are also “spreading”. Will says his now-MEMORIES” (connected to the mf-who parallels lonnie) are “growing, spreading, and killing.” Later, Kali in reference to Brenner says her wounds “spread” because she didn’t address her pain caused by Brenner (her papa). And when kali creates a brenner-double he says El has a terrible wound that’s “growing, spreading, and eventually it’ll kill you.” (if not addressed) and they don’t stand up against their father.

-doors connecting to problematic fathers: We see Will in s1 have a sign on his bedroom door that says “do not enter”. And he also requires a password for cb for people to enter. When joyce in s1 hears aggressive knocking on the door she assumes it’s lonnie and says to “go away, Lonnie”. In s1 we the demogorgan unlock the door telepathically and chase Will. later we see Will stare at the shed door terrified as the demogorgan sneaks up behind him. in s2 we see the mf slam open the arcade door by itself, and also open his house door in the same manner . when the house door opens it zooms in on the back of his neck- which indicates it’s based off an old memory-a now memory. We have El also telepathically unlock people’s doors in a similar fashion-not respecting such boundaries. And El asks in s1e1 for the door to stay open. And Neil, Hopper, and Billy angrily yell to “OPEN THE DOOR!!!!!” And Hopper slams doors open demanding they stay 3 inches open. We also see El enter a door in the void to see Heather being attacked in a tub and entering the darkness.

tubs:brenner forces El into a sensory deprivation tank. Later El refers to it as a “tub” after seeing the byers tub. we later see the mf is afraid of the byers’ tub. And tub iconography shows up for billy & heather. the s4 movies hint at Will having a tra*matic memory occurring in the tub.

The fathers of St (recap):

Brenner (“papa” to El and Kali). He forces El into a dark room for hours when she doesn’t obey him. At one point tries to force her to k*ll an animal. Given the way she ate at Benny’s- he may have starved her as another form of punishment.He allows El no ability to express herself (and dresses her in a masculine/androgounous way) and bans her from the outside world. He tries using a calm-kind demeanor to try and manipulate mothers (Joyce & Karen) into thinking he cares about their kids. And uses El as a weapon/spy . He would read to El and give her flowers and a lion plushie . in the st novel (suspicious minds) he compared the children/numbers to “rabbits” he could “hurt”.

Lonnie-(dead beat dad of Jonathan and Will). divorced.Forced Jonathan to k*ll a rabbit. It’s implied he has thrown his kids in his dark car trunk (since Jonathan checks if Will is lonnie’s trunk in s1). He tries manipulating Joyce into thinking he cares about Will. But he just wanted to use Will’s death to make money. He canonically-joked about his son dissappearing. And insulted his ex wife. Then when he realizes he can profit off his son’s death-who he hasn’t seen in years. He leaves his 20-something live in gf, flirts with Joyce calling her “babe”. And pretends to care for Will and the rest of his family. Then gaslights them when they call out his bs. He also has called Will a “f*g” and it’s implied he forced Will to hunt/play baseball. He also shoves Jonathan into a wall. He can have a relatively calm demeanor like Brenner-but then blows up. He smokes, and it’s implied he may be an alcholic since beer cans are littered all over his house. Will has lion plushie in cb (and since lonnie means ‘lion’ it may have been given to him by Lonnie?). He (like Hopper) implies Joyce is mentally ill and that she’s hallucinating due to grief-and says she’s going to go “over the edge” mirroring Hopper’s words about Joyce in s1.

Neil- divorced.Calls Billy a “f*got”, and forced him to play baseball. He later shoves his son into a wall and slaps him. He has a calm demeanor and then yells to make his points with Billy. He also yells at first wife cause romantically jealous. Him & Lonnie both have fights with their ex wives where the phrase “I’m not lying to you” is used.

Hopper- divorced.in s1-3 we see he smokes, pops pills, and is an alocholic. The pilot pitch explicitely states he is . He is shown to have anger issues, sells out El’s location to Brenner in s1. In s2 threatens to send her back to her ab*sers if she doesn’t listen to him/ stay isolated from the outside world. dresses her androgonously and tries controlling her romantic relationships. He yells at Joyce cause romantically jealous . joyce annoyed at Hopper: “yes everyman i speak to is my boyfriend”. El says “you are like papa.” And in the pilot Brenner and Hopper were said to dress similarly. And Murray says to Joyce that Hopper is a “brute” who “reminds (her) of a (past) bad relationship”. Aka Lonnie.

Steve’s dad- is called an “asshole” by Steve and it’s implied he cheats on his wife.

heather’s dad - is sexist to Nancy and cold to his wife. We see Heather (who is the same age as Nancy) has some hidden resentment towards him.

Sam (Max’s dad)- divorced/out of the picture like Lonnie. in the novel ‘runaway max’ is said to be a criminal who often took Max to shady places/bars. And also taught her how to pick door locks-similar to how Jonathan picked a car lock open in s1 like max with a door in s2.

Dustin’s dad- also out of the picture ? dead... maybe?

Recap: Parallels of fathers

forced their kids to k*ll animals/violence toward rabbits/throws kids in dark places/gave their kids lion plushies/tries unsuccessfully to manipulate mother’s into thinking he cares for their kids: Lonnie & Brenner

taught kids shady stuff like how to pick locks: Lonnie & Sam

are described as poor/called their sons “f*gs”/forced sons to play baseball/slam sons into walls/have their sons attack Steve/have sons who are into hard rock music: lonnie & Neil

“i’m not lying to you”-:Neil/ex wife and Lonnie/joyce

dr*gs/smokes/alochol ab*se/womanizers/hunters: lonnie & Hopper

imply Joyce is wrong about the supernatural and is just mentally ill: Lonnie and Hopper. Both use a similar expression of her being on “the edge”.

lie to Joyce: Lonnie and Hopper (specifically lies claiming he took her advice and uses that lie to try and get a date with her)

Gave them cat plushies: Lonnie,Brenner, possibly hopper with sara’s tiger

being connected to flowers: Brenner & Lonnie

yell at love interest when romantically jealous:Neil and Hopper in s3

Hopper: compared to Lonnie (by Murray in s3) and Papa/brenner (by el in s2). in the original pilot Brenner & Hopper were supposed to look similar. Brenner was supposed to have a beard, and wear jeans and plaid shirts similar to hopper in s1. it’s also interesting to note how Hopper started to look more like Neil -they’re both blondes-and in s3 they have matching moustaches (and billy started growing out a moustache in s3-mirroring him becoming a mini neil too).

dress El in masculine clothes/isolate her from outside world/spy on El/read to El:Hopper & Brenner

calm demeanor but quick to anger/ also divorced: Hopper, lonnie, Neil

yells to “open the door”: Neil, Hopper, (and possessed Billy) .it’s also implied Lonnie can pick door locks open.

outliers

jonathan - In the pilot pitch he’s described as taking on the father role for Will (after Lonnie left). However, he is often paralleled to the mothers of st. Most likely because he never had a healthy father figure- and distrusts even good men like Bob- so models his parenting behavior more so on maternal figures. We see Jonathan being paralleled to the mothers taking photos of their kids on Halloween, and Jonathan being paralleled to Karen twice. We even see him bored/annoyed in s2 watching the film “mr mom” since the comedic premise was haha - dad has to stay at home- cook for their kids , drive them to school, do laundry, whaaa how can a man do that ... look it’s so hard ? isn’t that what moms do instead? All things Jonathan does without literally tripping over himself and failing like the older male film character, initially does . He also in canon helps pay for the mortgage. We also see Jonathan is unlike the other problematic fathers (who demand entry into their kid’s room) since we see him knock on Will’s door and get verbal permission before entering Will’s room in s2 (respecting Will’s sign). Similar to joyce ringing cb’s doorbell and getting verbal permission from Will to enter.We also see on Halloween Jonathan mocks Bob but when Will defends him Jonathan later mimics Bob telling Will “hope it doesn’t suck” (in a vampire voice) showing at least subconsciously he was mirroring the parenting-like behavior from Bob (since Will liked Bob). So Bob became the first male he used as an inspiration for his ‘parenting style’.

Ted- is shown in direct opposition to Lonnie.In s1 we see Ted help Mike put on a tie mentioning to Mike it has to be a “little tight” and that it “looks good”. And after this scene: we see Jonathan struggle to put on a tie (and then ripping it off in frustration-signifying his lack of a father figure that could have taught him how to do this when younger). So in s3 we see Jonathan’s ties are always poorly done and slightly loose around his neck. The same season Jonathan comments about how Nancy’s dad makes 6 figures and his dad “isn’t even around”. He finacially supports his family. cuddles Holly on his fav laze-boy and takes her to fairs. Wants to comfort Mike after Will dies (but listens to Karen to give him time). Has Karen tell Mike that if he wants to talk to him about Will’s death- he can call him at work and he’ll come home for Mike. His calm demeanor seems genuine -unlike the other father figures who quickly lose their cool facade (Ted has never yelled at his kids). Even when kids yell or insult him he doesn’t lose his cool. Worst things he’s done: told kids to stop cursing, naps alot, gives an outdated football analogy about How Mike needs to stop acting out . Why st fans claim he’s a bad dad : boring af aka the human embodiment of wonder bread, in loveless marriage, and not rambo-esque like Hopper so people act like he’s a horrible dad in comparison to Hopper. Despite being a more stable parent in the normal everyday situations.

Lucas’ dad- unfortunately we saw very little of him. But he seems somewhat similar to Ted. He’s nice and gives somewhat dated advice at the table to his son-like Ted did. He seems like a mellow, chill dude, who finacially supports his family. But,Unlike karen/ted it seems like he loves his wife and vice versa.

Bob-the wannabe stepdad- as the first romantic interest after Lonnie-He contrasts him. He doesn’t do drugs or smoke. Is emotionally vulnerable with Joyce and vice versa. He never makes fun of Will or Joyce’s mental health issues. he relates to Will -who was bullied as a kid, and is into computers, comics, and was in av club (just like Will). He is supportive of Will’s non-manly interests and encourages those interests (bringing brain puzzles, and board games over when told Will is sick). Unlike Lonnie who tried to force ‘manly’ interests on to Will. He isn’t mad when Will busts his brand new camera but is simply concerned that Will is being bullied. He’s also shown being concerned about Will’s mental health. He helps joyce with little things like finding her keys and taking Will to school. His happy calm demeanor is genuine-and he is never shown yelling in anger. He kindly disagrees with joyce on the ‘ drawings on the walls game’ cause he was concerned it wasn’t good for Will’s mental health (and tells her she can talk more about Will’s issues). He sacrifices himself to save Will, joyce and everyone around him. And unlike Hopper- Bob was never jealous or mean to joyce about the men in Joyce’s life. Bob was serious about Joyce and the boys-he wanted them to be his family and move them near his own blood relatives. We see he had an impact on the boys at the end of s2- Will drawing the “bob newby superhero” drawing and Jonathan using Bob’s camera.

#jonathan byers #el hopper #will byers #max mayfield #billy hargrove #joyce byers #bob newby #lonnie byers #neil hargrove #kali prasad #lucas sinclair #dustin henderson #mike wheeler #nancy wheeler

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sometipsygnostalgic · 3 years

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good adventure time episodes to rewatch?

you're asking me to pinpoint some good rewatchable eps out of the 284 that are in the show?

here are my favourites to just randomly rewatch from time to time, mostly when they were popping up on youtube recs last year (and certainly DOES NOT include all plot relevant eps):

Season 1: Slumber Party Panic The Enchiridion My Two Favourite People Dungeon <- top tier AT The Duke <- deadly funny Rainy Day Daydream Ocean of Fear The Witch's Garden City of Thieves What Is Life? A lot of eps in season 1 are charming and nostalgic but not exactly great. IMO the heart of the season is Jake looking out for his easily stressed out kid brother, and Finn pulling Jake back into reality when he gets carried away with his imagination. Which is why season 2 starts off pretty weak imo - too many eps where Finn gets tortured while Jake's fucking around. Season 2: It Came from the Nightosphere The Eyes <- was surprised at how funny this was The Other Tarts Belly of the Beast Susan Strong <- aged somewhat, but i used to be obsessed Mystery Train Death in Bloom Chamber of Frozen Blades The Real You <- classic, weird characterisation of PB tho Go With Me <- this one has aged remarkably well, it's so funny The Limit Guardians of Sunshine Video Makers Mortal Folly/Recoil <- used to rewatch these a lot but not so much recently, there are better Lich eps now, Recoil is hilarious though Season 2 has so many fun eps that are good to watch at any point, i actually gave up on writing reviews for each one because i realised i wouldn't be able to do it justice. Check out my tag: #adventure-time-reviewed

Seasons 3 through to the Finale under the cut.

Season 3: Morituri Te Salutamus Memory of a Memory <- my favourite marceline-focused ep in the entire series, including/because of? distant lands Hitman <- someone got hit in the boingloings Too Young <- call me crazy but this is actually a fun episode once you get past the weird shipping and mischaracterisation of PB Wizard Battle What Was Missing <- recently wrote a tumblr article about this, it's not only historical but also very fun to watch, you already know that though Apple Thief The Creeps No One Can Hear You Jake vs Me Mow Thank You <- show anyone this The New Frontier <- very relevant Marceline's Closet <- i have to be in the mood for this one. a lot of it is cringe. a lot of it is super funny. Dad's Dungeon <- another one that used to be on my phone like 10 years ago to show my friends. Ghost Princess

sorry a lot of arrows here. but yeah, season 3 is a good one. There's a lot I thought about but excluded. Incendium is OK but there's too much of Finn crying which I find very grating. From Bad To Worse is a funny, but it's overshadowed by how good the other horror eps were this season. Holly Jolly Secrets is actually really aggravating to watch and I won't touch it again until my next rewatch, in fact, I might even skip it. There are much better Ice King eps in season 3, like Hitman, and there's plenty of Simon later on.

Season 4:

Hug Wolf Goliad <- the first Herpich great, IMO. Beyond this Earthly Realm <- forgotten gem Princess Cookie Card Wars Sons of Mars <- an all time best episode Lady & Peebles <- hard to stomach, but has aged sooo well, the first ep of the series where you hear PB's "real" voice I Remember You The Lich <- probably the best season finale in the show A lot less for season 4, actually. The highs this season hits are unprecedented, the list here is some of the best content in AT, but there weren't as many eps where I went "oh my god, i HAVE to rewatch that". The start of s4 was particularly forgettable. I have no reason to touch 8 of the first 10 eps again. I nearly put "Gotcha" here but actually that ep aggravates me just as much as it entertains me. Season 5:

Finn the Human/Jake the Dog <- second-greatest season premiere, interesting to look at again now we know more about the lore All the Little People <- not on my personal casual rewatch list, it's too hard to stomach. but a lot of people are fascinated by it. Mystery Dungeon Bad Little Boy <- the only fionna and cake ep still good in 2021 Simon and Marcy A Glitch is a Glitch <- funny Puhoy James Baxter the Horse <- the last ep Pen worked on as creative director, he also co boarded it The Suitor <- an unpopular choice but i love this ep Candy Streets Wizards Only, Fools Sky Witch <- one of the best PB eps tbh Earth and Water <- out of place but funniest ep in Finn's romance arc Time Sandwich <- an all time fun ep The Vault <- my favourite ep in the series and a good standalone too Love Games Dungeon Train We Fixed a Truck <- this ep is chaos Root Beer Guy <- still great if you can look past how his arc went Apple Wedding <- 50 50 on this one but when it came out I thought it was the funniest thing ever Rattleballs Bad Timing <- banger, made me drink Lemonhope Part 1 and 2 <- banger, made me think Billy's Bucket List <- banger, made me cry This list is season 5.2 heavy because, to simply put it, Pen's season 5.1 was running out of material and had a lack for good episodes. When Adam took over for 5.2 things really amped up, and after the initial fallout of Finn's romance arc, you got good ep after good ep after good ep. The final 3/4 eps in particular are fucking outstanding and it's part 1 of IMO the series' high point, which was Bad Timing to The Tower. Season 6

Wake Up/Escape from the Citadel <- EASILY the best premiere James II <- much needed levity during this arc The Tower Food Chain <- favourite s6 ep Little Brother Is That You? Thanks for the Crabapples, Giuseppe Princess Day <- some people hate this ep but i think it's fun Nemesis <- ugh so good and underrated. i like how PB is losing it like a saturday cartoon villain while Pep is a coolheaded mastermind villain. The Cooler <- not funny enough for my casual rewatch but ive talked at length about it Joshua & Margaret Investigations Ghost Fly Everything's Jake Jake the Brick Dentist The Pajama War Evergreen Astral Plane <- i used to hate this ep but now i think about it a lot, chill vibes The Mountain Jermaine <- legit great ep Chips and Ice Cream <- maybe im too much like bmo but this ep made me cry You Forgot Your Floaties <- like Astral Plane it depends on the viewer being in the mood to have some stuff stay over their head. Orgalorg Hot Diggety Doom/The Comet <- a fan favourite season finale. Season 6 is a funny one because there are actually quite a few eps that I don't remember fondly, but fit well on this list. It's a season that has tons of amazing standalone eps but the lack of focus, and general disappointment compared to its amazing start, makes it super divisive. A lot of people left after "Breezy", and many more drifted away after the increasing hiatuses, bombs, and how the episodes airing just didn't have anything to do with the characters we loved. Namely, the abysmal lack of Marceline, or eps with Finn and Jake. The good news is Season 7 would immediately solve most of these problems. Season 7 Don't even need to check wikipedia for half of these. This is the original structuring by the way, not the reworked 10 seasons version. Varmints <- an all time best Mama Said Cherry Cream Soda <- weird characterisation but pretty fun All of Stakes <- most rewatchable is the second half, easily. Take Her Back is probably the best ep. Angel Face Blank Eyed Girl <- first cartoony horror ep in forever, love it King's Ransom Crossover <- you might cry Hall of Egress <- if someone asked me what "the best episode of Adventure Time" is, I would usually say "objectively this one". Show it to all of your friends. Flute Spell The Thin Yellow Line <- a personal favourite, Lyle Partridge's graffiti is mesmerizing Broke His Crown <- the one episode I've rewatched the most in the entire show possibly???? funniest characterisation of PB hands down. Don't Look Beyond the Grotto Lady Rainicorn of the Crystal Dimension I Am A Sword Bun Bun <- the Character Development episode Normal Man <- often voted "funniest episode of the show", deserves it Elemental <- i just really like Patience and PB riffing off each other The Music Hole <3 <3 <3 Preboot <- I actually like this one way more than Reboot. I don't like Reboot. A bit too weird.

Season 7 might just be the best in the show. It has few to none of the drawbacks of other seasons, it has some of the all time best eps. It's namely where the emotional side of AT comes back in for the first time since season 4. Everyone does some growing up and you get payoff for all the terrible shit they did earlier on. Everyone becomes friends again after the past few seasons of tension. The original Season 8 is also great but because it's 2 miniseries stapled together, there's no amazing standalone eps like Hall of Egress. And season 9 (CN's season 10) is so tied in to its greater continuity, one which I didn't enjoy much, that there are no remarkable eps at all. Let's give some recs for them anyway! Season 8

Two Swords/Do No Harm <- not eps I personally come back to much but I love how they set out Finn's approach to Fern and his acceptance of his new arm. Wheels High Strangeness <- my favourite ep in this entire season, best Tree Trunks ep, one of the best PB eps, i find something new every time i read the storyboard, it's so crazy Jellybeans Have Power <- obvious choice Islands <- the entire tone of the miniseries is great. the best eps are The Invitation, Imaginary Resources, Min and Martin, Hide and Seek. Elements <- unlike the other miniseries, this one is a banger in EVERY episode, except for skyhooks II, i didn't like how it ended, but seriously i love Elements so much, you can take any ep from it and enjoy it standalone. most rewatchable by far. Bespoken For and Cloudy might be the most interesting. Abstract <- thematically similar to jellybeans have power but with a positive outcome Ketchup Whispers/Three Buckets <- this is the season finale that got be back into Adventure Time

All of season 8 is a banger but like I said there's nothing which jumps out that would make you watch it standalone, apart from IMO High Strangeness, Wheels, and Abstract. The other eps are so intricately connected that it's hard to just go watch them, but the Elements miniseries is at least so good that I'd take any ep from it and enjoy it, even if the miniseries doesn't have the revelations and powerful overarching themes of the other two. Unfortunately S8 houses one of the worst eps of the series - "Fionna, Cake and Fionna". You can imagine my horror when I learnt there is a spinoff being made based on the worst plot point of that ep?????

Season 9

The Wild Hunt <- best story ep of the season Always BMO Closing <- surprisingly fun, Gumbald's best showing Son of Rap Bear <- i actually love this ep as closure to FP's arc. it's not mindblowing but it touches on a lot of holes for her character, revisiting her issues of naivete and not knowing much about the world, which had been ignored later on. Bonnibel Bubblegum <- surprisingly i only like the first half of this ep. the rest is fascinating for analysis but i just don't enjoy it. too weird. Seventeen <- this ep is really stupid but it's funny in a jarring way. i love finn being a dumbass, pb having the 1 brain cell, while fern just laughs mockingly. Ring of Fire <- best standalone ep of the season????? The First Investigation Blenanas <- i dont have time to explain the psychology of humor to you *smashes window* Temple of Mars <- would you watch this by itself? idk Come Along With Me <- ive rewatched the second part countless times since it has the most going on, until i started liking it I've just listed like 10 of the season's 13 eps... nice.... okay, i'll list why i DIDN'T include some. i don't like marcy and hunson because it's queerbaity as fuck in the worst way. it's an insult this late in the series. i have elaborated before. if you ask i'll dig up the posts about it. Jake the Starchild is one that's not offensively bad but is a very disappointing answer to the Jake's Dad question, in a season already packed with like 3 other bad dads before that point.

Gumbaldia is actually decent enough, i'm thinking of adding it in, but it heavily involves the Gum family, who I don't like. It has a weird conflict between Finn and PB which I'm not a fan of because it didn't get fleshed out enough on both sides. And once again it's so story-involved that I'm not sure I can rec it as standalone.

That's actually most of my issues with season 9 summed up just in describing Gumbaldia. Just apply that description to the entire thing. Unfortunately there's nothing in S9 that i feel i HAVE to watch, other than segments from the finale, and the opening few minutes of Bonnibel Bubblegum which are jam packed with apocalypse stuff. I don't watch any of it for leisure.

So yeah with that I'd say the worst season for rewatching random eps is 9 and the best season is season 7!! which, makes sense, because most clips I rewatch are from season 7. it's just the greatest.

#adventure time #atimers

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chicoriii · 3 years

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Season 4, Episode 17 - Larme Ultime (Rocketear)

So this is a DjiWifi episode from which comes a screenshot I've seen over a month ago (I think). It's good they got it, before season 4 started I really wanted it to happen and to see a kiss between Nino and Alya in it (but that didn't happen and I don't get why, only the main pairing is allowed to kiss in this show or what?), but now I could not be excited about it anymore, because I'm sick of Alya and I'm not able to hide it. Yes, I'm biased, but I'm just a normal viewer and I have right to dislike her favouritism.

My the biggest thought after watching this is that it looks like since Optigami, Alya is not only a deuteragonist, like I said in my post about Sentibubbler, she's actually more like a co-protagonist now. That was an extremely Alya-centric episode (even more than Lie was was about Adrien, as it was mostly Ladybug who saved the world like almost always, also because Chat sacrificed himself again), while in Optigami and this one she has screentime comparable to Marinette. I'm still trying to avoid spoilers (so please, don't tell what's going to happen in the next episodes, I don't want to know), but I'm sure that either 15 or 16 is also highly about her, because we've seen the new Rena's suit in this episode and it looked like it wasn't the first episode with it. But really, I won't be surprised if Alya has lots of screentime in both episodes and all others to the end of the show as well. I don't think Adrien is ever going to get as much special treatment like Alya. :/ The creators have never been as nice to him.

Didn't the writes have enough ideas for another story arcs? And thanks to it they were able to save money, because then creators could just reuse old models of villains more than before. Have anyone noticed that S4 has even fewer number of completely new characters than previous seasons? The scientist seen at the start of the episode has detailed model, so she had to be akumatised in any of the previous unreleased episodes (or one of the next ones). And why she looks a lot like Alya, is she her relative? If yes, you know what that means? Another excuse to make an episode full of the fox wielder, because, you know, it’s not like she already got enough occasions to shine in S4.

Speaking of Rena Rouge's new suit. What a waste, it would be great for a potential chameleon Miraculous, so it seems it won't be ever created for canon. So bad, I think it's one of the coolest animal, so a Miraculous based on it would be awesome. It could one from an African Miracle Box which should appear, since they are planning making an African special. The suit is good and all, but I still feel disappointed that it's not the superpower of a chameleon Miraculous. :(

Why is Nino acting over the top out of nowhere? I like film noir atmosphere, fedoras and especially jazz music full of saxophones (my favourite music genre and instrument), but it looks totally ridiculous when he's like that. I thought it's Marinette's speciality, and he beat her in that category. I'm not trying to say it's a a bad thing, it just feels weird seeing Nino like that. And since I love jazz, I would like to listen to that film noir-esque music more once I got 5.1 audio, since it was hardly heard in the episode. It didn't sound much interesting, but it's too early to judge it seriously.

Too bad they had written the main conflict in the episode using one of the biggest romantic cliche - misunderstanding in which one character see and\or hear something, but not the whole thing, so said character interprets it wrong. Motifs like that are rather annoying, so it's good something similar haven't happened in the Love Square's arc (yet at least). Though I have a big issue with how they write it this season and I'm going to make a post about it (is anyone interested?).

The akuma is one the ugliest and has one of the most laziest power ever. Really? He shoots using tear bullets and does nothing more? I know many people hate Bubbler's design, but no matter how silly it looks, it was much more creative than this.

And of course the whole thing with Alya remembering the whole conversation with Chat Noir was extremely far-fetched. The could think about something more believable, but I'm not surprised it happened, since I think this season is generally more lazy written than previous ones.

On the other hand, I'm surprised that Marinette is actually aware that Shadow Moth should not know that Alya is still Rena Rouge. It seems that the whole episode 15 (or 16) is about they trying to figure out what to do with that problem. I won't be surprised if Alya would do it all by herself like it happened with protecting charms in Mr Pigeon 72, because it's completely normal that a random person who has never met Fu is better at decrypting the grimoire than someone who has been trained to be a guardian to some extend :/ Still I think they should not be sure that camouflage mode would solve the problem completely. From what I understand the new suit doesn’t make her completely invisible to others. Rena could be seen by anyone who takes a photo of her and then post in on the internet (it won't be believable that she's the only one crazy about superheroes in Paris). But at least they tried to do something and Marinette sees the danger to some extend. It’s something new.

It's not like Alya is careful, she's completely reckless (and they think she's a good reporter material? Don't make me laugh) and she still thinks more about her own fun in being the superheroine than safety of herself or the world. But of course, it's not gonna happen, because plot armor is very strong in this show. I really had a feeling that she acted like a little child in the first minutes of the episode. She's unable to see that her situation is not a joke. She should be all happy that Marinette still lets her to keep the fox Miraculous. She really lacks humility and I see it clearly since Optigami at least. Besides, Marinette ignores another red flags, that Alya is taking pictures of herself in the new suit no one is supposed to see and thinking about posting them on Ladyblog (was Bunnix right that Alya is able to reveal Miraculous secrets on her blog because of her overenthusiasm and lack of ability of seeing consequences of her actions?).

By the way, now I think, if Alya can't keep in secret that she's still Rena Rouge from Nino (which happens because it's needed for the plot), so how could she be all fine with keeping in secret other facts like that Ladybug gave her the fox permanently and she knows her identity (which isn't happening because the plot doesn't require it)? She still has to lie on Nino because of these secrets.

They are making Marinette a big hypocrite this season. Since she revealed herself to Alya, it's been shown that secret identities rule was bullshit from the start, but Marinette is still saying that heroes can't reveal their identities to anyone. What? What has she done before like not revealing herself to someone, so how she dares keep saying about how crucial is keeping secrets from everyone? Sorry writers, I can't take that rule seriously anymore since Alya knows and no one should. Because Marinette told Alya, she could tell it to other persons she trust as well. What's the difference between her best friend and the rest of the people in the world? Is Alya the only person she trusts? In fact, revealing herself to Sabine, for example, would be much better choice. She's actually wise and mature unlike Alya and her secrets would be much more safe with her mother.

I've seen Chat Blanc again on TV recently and I remembered one thing Ladybug told to Bunnix there: "The best-kept secrets are the ones you never share." (Google Translate says that the line is exactly the same in the French original). Some episodes later, she isn't thinking twice if she should tell all the guardian secrets to Alya. Okay, she revealed her identity because of being too emotional in that exact moment, but then when she calmed down, she should be able to think if telling all the Miraculous secrets is a good idea. The other hypocritical thing is telling Chloé "you can't be Queen Bee anymore, because Hawk Moth knows your identity" but still calling the other heroes whose identities have been exposed.

So I can't even blame Alya for telling Nino the truth if the guardian herself is not following her own rules. Not to mention, Marinette doesn't address wrong things Alya is doing at all, so no wonder she feels she could do anything, she won't get punished, no matter what. After all, it's not the first moment in which she does something her best friend forbid her.

And we can say the show has been confirmed that Nino is even worse at keeping secrets, especially in crisis situations, so why people wanted to see Adrien revealing himself to Nino? It's obvious that he would tell Adrien's secret to Alya and maybe some other people as well.

I thought that since S3 finale Adrien is supposed to know identities of every backup hero from seasons 2 and 3 and I was ready to be salty about that as well. But yes, actually after purification of Miracle Queen's akuma, brainwashed heroes didn't detransform. They were forgotten completely and we don't even know what happened with them exactly. I suppose Ladybug took their Miraculous when Chat Noir wasn't there anymore.

Adrien has every right to be angry at Ladybug, she treats him so badly, since Alya knows her own secrets and she doesn't even have the guts to admit that. But I'm going to say about my the biggest issue in the Chat Noir and Ladybug's situation in another post, I hope I would write before the next episode airs.

#miraculous ladybug #ml rocketear #ml season 4 #ml spoilers #ml spoiler #ml season 4 spoilers #chicoriii about S4 episodes #chicoriii #original post

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galvanizedfriend · 3 years

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Hi!! I am a fan of your writing and especially your characterization of the Mikaelson family. The way you translate them into the human world in your AU fics is something I am always obsessing over. Anyway, I just wanted to know if you prefer TO or TVD (it is just something I am always curious about in the case of Klaroline writers...). And why you prefer Klaroline over Klamille?

Thank you, anon! 😊 I’m so glad you enjoy my Mikaelsons! Once I started writing them into stuff, I can’t seem to stop. 😂

In spite of what my writing history might suggest, and the fact I do love the Mikaelsons, I’m not a big fan of The Originals. 😅 I enjoyed some of the show for the first two seasons, but from S3 onward I couldn’t even finish it when it was still airing. I prefer TVD, though not all of it either. S2 and 3 of TVD are *chefs kiss*, and S4 is good, too.

I was never really a fan of Klamille. It always seemed to me like it was shooed into TO for the sake of giving Klaus a romantic interest. The chemistry was barely there and the way they built it frankly did Camille so dirty. Lol she was used as a prop a lot of the time, had no story or will of her own (she spends almost the entirety of s2, when she shows up at all, as a glorified babysitter) contradicting what her own character was meant to represent/stand for on the show. I don’t hate Cami, but I wish they’d done a better job there, both with her character and the ship, if that’s what they really wanted to go for. And the season that was meant to solidify them as a ship was just 🤣 S3 is such a mess. Nothing makes sense, the whole build up there is so screwed up, Klaus is half in love with Aurora the whole time, and what they did to vampire!Cami, honestly. It was just a very, very badly written story, so it’s really no wonder that most people who already shipped Klaus with someone else couldn’t get into it, and that was very much my case.

I think all the things they kept telling us on TO that cami/Klamille was supposed to mean/represent but was never really shown were thing that Klaroline had in a much more natural and fleshed out way. Klaus was genuinely more conscious around Caroline, he felt the weight of his decisions, he showed regret, actively chose to forego revenge and punishment because of her, to risk himself or his family just to help her (it even happens on TO when he risks luring Rayna Cruz to NO because Caroline was having a mental breakdown over Stefan and the twins lol). It’s really the only time when klaus seems to reckon with consequences for someone who’s not on his family. That’s not to say Caroline made klaus a better person, I don’t think anybody could ever make him better, but it did make him more conscious of his actions, and all because she truly held him accountable for the stuff he did, didn’t just let it slide or gave him a pass because “oh no Mikael was so mean”. And the chemistry they had was truly intense! A lot of it came from the way they were written, the clashing of personalities and ideologies, so to speak, which worked. Caroline wasn’t shown as this pure, well of goodness, she had darkness in her, but she had a grip over it, and while she was very much attracted to Klaus, she didn’t let that skewer her sense of correctness. That leveled the field for them. While Klaus held all of the physical power in their interactions, Caroline had the emotional power. They were equals in that sense. For Klamille, the power imbalance was way too big, and the way the whole thing starts was just a nuh-uh that I could never get past. Klaus literally pimps her out to Marcel against her will and there was never a moment when he was made to acquit himself for it, or when she was legit angry about it, quite the opposite. It’s barely addressed at all.

With Cami, Klaus remained every bit an unrepentant psycho little shit and she was just there to excuse his actions. She never held him accountable, not even when he killed his brothers girlfriend in cold blood and cursed the mother of his child. Instead, she seemed satisfied when he said he bit her so dahlia wouldn’t think he cared about her lol I was genuinely angry when she trying to make excuses for him to Elijah when he’d just witnessed his girlfriend burn to death. 😂 Like omg woman, get a grip 🤣 It was almost naive the way she seemed to think he had an inherent “goodness” and kept buying his daddy issue bs every time he did something inexcusable. So while I was hearing one thing being said, the actions on the show were telling me a completely different story, and Cami came out as easily manipulated and naive, rather than someone with a strong sense of righteousness and cunning enough to understand the mind of an original vampire. She was Klaus’ excuse, not his moral compass. There was no balance in their dynamic. And so that whole line became very dull and annoying to me because it just made no sense, and then S3 just lost me completely on everything (not just Cami, but Cami was for sure one of the things they messed up).

Im sorry, anon, I got a little carried away here. 🤣🤣🤣 But yeah, not a fan of Klamille even though I don’t hate Cami. I actually think she deserved better. I’m sorry if this came out too critical, I don’t know if you’re a Klamille shipper! But thanks for stopping by and for your really sweet message! :)

#yokan answers #anon #anti-Klamille #I don’t know how cami wasn’t convinced klaus was gay tbh

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miraculouscontent · 3 years

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“Truth”-related asks:

Anonymous said:

I just watched truth and man, we didn't need any of that... I'm so tired...

Anonymous said:

Me after reading that summary: We coulda had it aaaaaaaaaaallllllll, decent wri-itiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggg

Anonymous said:

oh. lukanette breakup. how surpri— oh wait, no it wasn't.

bunnybunblitz said:

Me, skimming your summary of truth: life is a nightmare life is a nightmare life is a nightmare abort abort

Anonymous said:

Truth was a living nightmare, and that's the truth!

*defeated sigh*

Anonymous said:

The way all that just make me start disliking Adrien so hard wow I have enough of him so hard can they get ride of him for one damn episode?

Anonymous said:

Wow! Writers got on completely new level. They somehow made people to be annoyed with Adrien, even without putting him in episode.

My meme image of “I’ve had enough of this dude,” about sums it up.

It’s almost impressive???

Anonymous said:

I have the impression that you should slowly gather materials for "Treatment of Marinette S4"

You know, when you’re right, you’re right.

Anonymous said:

Hey there... Got a lil rant, I hope you don't mind in sea of anons you're probably getting. I guess if show didn't treat Marinette as their favorite punching bag and lukanette as a thing to get over with to be back on love square bullshit I wouldn't be this salty. We all knew lukanette isn't a endgame, but we actually care about Luka ans Marinette as characters and as a couple, and we knew there was a break up brewing.

But I mlb writers for setting things up, canonizing them over provocative tweet and leave them to dust right at the beginning of s4. And, oh sweet irony as they kinda accidentally made Lukanette totally better than love square (let's be honest if they knew what they were doing we wouldn't get any breakup from narrative and character development standpoint),,, because their heroine for once is loved and appreciated but that's another discussion and they hate that for her. Also, thomas arstruck can suck my toe.

I don't know what's your opinion on soulmate and destiny thing, but I'm totally in opposite. I remember The Good Place (love the series btw!) quote about how soulmates are made with love and nurture of people and not some cosmic forces. And to see how show is pushing for Destiny ™️ I'm kinda disheartened. But I guess I never really liked love square execution in the first place when it turned out that Marinette is butt of the crush joke for 3 seasons and there's 0 development from that. Like Thomas, that's not funny running gag. Thanks for reading! Hope you're doing well!

Thank you for the rant, and I agree!

It’s so strange how all their attempts to push for the love square just push me more towards Lukanette. How do the writers do that???

Anonymous said:

Yeah that point where she exclaims Luka in shock just angered and confused me. She LITERALLY transformed because Luka was akumatized. And her being shocked is only there to get her under the truth spell.

This episode is held together by knots and strings at this point.

Anonymous said:

Wow, "Ladybug likes Chat Noir humor." Then why every time Chat Noir makes puns, Ladybug looks like she wanted to strangle him on spot.

Ladybug = us

At that point, they should’ve just said, “[The writers] like Chat Noir’s humor.” Like--writers, please don’t use Ladybug as a tool to simp for your sunshine boy, it looks really pathetic.

Anonymous said:

Based on the ellipses you used I'm guessing you're not a fan of Jagged talking about the "Guitar is my only family" song.

Oh, no actually... I mean, I do because it’s there to torment Luka, but the ellipses was because of the intentional pause in the episode. Jagged was looking sympathetic

Anonymous said:

Truth was awful, the only good thing we got out of it was a Lukanette date (yay :'D) and we got to know Luka's father (although we all been knew).

Honestly if we could find a way to edit it so Luka and Marinette properly kissed then we’d just chop it out of the episode and call it the only canon thing.

asexual-individual said:

So, given that "Truth" didn't introduce the protection charms, I'm going to take a wild guess that they're not introduced until after "Gang of Secrets", meaning that Marinette won't get any close friends that it's safe to tell her secret to.

I was legit so sure that it was a guardian benefit and now I’m just left confused/curious about what causes CharmBug. Like, what, do you get CharmBug by purifying your one thousandth akuma???

Anonymous said:

I am absolutely positive no one quality checks these episodes before they’re sent out. Ladybug getting caught off guard on Luka being Truth even though she knows he was akumatised, and the horribly upbeat music playing as Marinette lies in bed absolutely defeated is so bad there’s no way this was double checked before it was sent out to TV stations

At this point, I’m convinced that they don’t care and are jamming through episodes as fast as they possible can.

cobraonthecob said:

I'm willing to bet that the writers go through critical and salt blogs just to see what the fandom's thinking, and then they think we're serious and they sprint with whatever we say.

guys please reconsider and also lower your alcohol levels

Anonymous said:

It was awful in general, but why add the paternity thing in the break-up ep? It detracts from, well, everything else and makes obvious they are copypasting fan theories instead of thinking of plot points.

I really do think they knew that Luka being upset over Marinette’s secret wasn’t enough to akumatize him so he needed something else.

Anonymous said:

Let me get something straight: The episode was explicitly about Marinette going on dates with Luka and that they were together. Yet Juleka is once again part of the shipping squad with obligatory "Marinette is only weird because she's with Adrien"-theories, and she's totally cool with that?

Yup! :3

guys I just adore mob mentality, did you know.

guys--

Anonymous said:

Ok, but the fact that everyone considers Marinette’s crush on Adrien to be her big secret is stupidly unrealistic. They KNOW they’re all aware of it - the girl squad even figured it out by themselves before they were told and think it’s totally obvious (as long as you’re a girl cause guys are clueless about feelings right). As far as they’re concerned it’s not actually a secret so they SHOULD be spilling the things they think only they and Marinette know. I mean, I can think of dozens of possibilities for Tom and the rest of the girls already, but Alya?

We had a front row seat to the damning secret Alya knows from back in season 1, but I guess asking this show to acknowledge continuity is too much. Still, the episode could have been so much more interesting if Alya had said, “Marinette’s the one who really gave Adrien the scarf for his birthday, but he looked so happy thinking it was from his father that she couldn’t bear to tell him that Gabriel hadn’t actually gotten him anything.” (I suppose reminding people of that wouldn’t fit into the writers’ poor attempts to make Gabriel sympathetic though 🙄).

Lol, just imagine the entire battle being sidetracked by Luka being brought to tears by how selfless and sweet his girlfriend is while Shadow Moth is too distracted by how this will ruin his reputation to get him back on track.

JKHJDSKGFSG

YES.

ALL OF THIIIIIS.

THIS IS AMAZING.

Anonymous said:

Marinette deserves to tell Luka she's Ladybug and have some support on her side tbh, it's disgusting to see the writers breaking up clearly the only thing that brings her joy and peace currently

HONESTLY.

And judging from that one trailer, she IS going to tell someone her secret and it’ll probably be freaking Alya; you know, the girl who blabbed about her Adrien crush to Nino and is thus THE LEAST TRUTHWORTHY PERSON. (”bonus” if it’s before the amulets)

I’m having nightmares already about Alya distrusting Lila because Marinette is Ladybug and not because Alya believes in Marinette. DX

Anonymous said:

Now that it’s been confirmed (in the worst way possible) that Jagged Stone is in fact Luka’s (and possibly Juleka’s?) father, how would you handle the whole mixed family aspect considering Jagged and Anarka’s relationship, Jagged and Penny’s, Anarka and Penny’s, Jagged and Luka’s (and Juleka’s?), and Penny and Luka’s (and Juleka’s?)? Topics like mixed families and family relationships are something that needs to be handled sensibly and sensitively given how it hits home for a lot of real-world people. Since we obviously can’t trust the ML writers to handle such topics the way that they deserve to be, how would you go about it knowing what we know up to this point about each character on their own and how they interact with one another?

Luka and Juleka were “accidents,” but Anarka kept it a secret from Jagged since Jagged was already hyped up to go on his next tour and Anarka knew their relationship was crumbling (possibly he already dumped her as his guitarist and she was annoyed about it). Jagged eventually learns that he has kids and is hesitant towards the idea, but because of him doting on Marinette (who’s the same age as his kids), he opens up to the idea.

Anarka and Jagged in present are mixed between tolerating each other for the sake of their kids and being chaotic best friends. The bad blood died out a while ago and there’s occasional tension but because Anarka is a single woman not interested in Jagged and Jagged is single with a possible thing for Penny, they make it work

Anarka and Penny have an awkward relationship. Penny wants to schedule time for Jagged to hang with Luka and Juleka and Anarka is confused at the very concept of a schedule, like just take them whenever okay??? isn’t it easier that way??? and Penny is like, “...oh, I guess so?”

Jagged and Penny, it depends on if they’re in any sort of relationship. If they’re in a relationship, Penny is either open to the idea of him learning to be good with kids if she’ll eventually want kids with him, or mixed because these are another woman’s kids and it’s really awkward. If they’re not in a relationship, then Penny could also be mixed since she’s crushing on him but I could also see her either finding it sweet that Jagged wants to hang out with his kids or finding it a hassle to schedule them in.

Jagged and Luka is rough. Luka has so many conflicting feelings on his idol ending up being his father. Jagged will probably even comment on Luka’s shirt + necklace and all of Luka’s merch in an attempt to bond but that kind of comes off desperate/awkward and Luka’s not about that life. I could also see Luka taking all the stuff down and swapping out his shirt, but being hesitant to remove the necklace because it’s a gift from Marinette. He might try to wash off the signature. He knows it’s not Jagged’s fault exactly but Anarka seemed to have bad blood with him and even if they get along now, Luka’s bitter. Jagged meanwhile wants to connect with Luka because hey musician energy!! but is gonna mess up a lot and say a lot of awkward things. Marinette will probably have to be a middle man between the two because it’s easier for them to talk with her around.

Jagged and Juleka don’t have a significant relationship at first. Juleka never care who her father was and she wasn’t crazy about Jagged Stone like Luka was. Jagged does try to connect with her but they clash majorly due to Jagged being so “loud” and Juleka being so quiet. Jagged will see it as a huge accomplishment the day where Juleka says something coherent (i.e: not a mumble) to him.

Yeah though, keep in mind for all of this that I’m not a family relationship kinda girl, so this isn’t my forte (I’m probably the most sympathetic to Jagged out of the whole fandom; not to say I agree with his actions but I have a history of hating babies and children, so not cool of him if he ditched Anarka but like, I get it, doesn’t make him better but I get it from a non-realistic standpoint of “ew, parenting”).

Anonymous said:

You know what? Imma gonna ignore canon for a bit more than I’ve been doing. The only thing I take away from “Truth” is that Marinette loves Luka and Tikki looks adorable in hats. That’s it have a good Saturday! 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙

Anonymous said:

If there’s one small detail that I thought was genuinely cute this episode, it’s Tikki posing in the mirror with her little hat collection.

Ahaha, those are good takeaways!

And yes, Tikki looked good in hats, but at what cost. (guys, where’s our jealous Tikki episode where Tikki is jealous of the attention Marinette has to give the other kwami wait no they’d just make it Marinette’s fault go back go ba--)

Anonymous asked:

Am I the only on squicked out by how Adrien acts all noble and claims he would never force Ladybug to tell him anything, but when it becomes apparent that he has to ask her a question before the akuma can he goes all ‘what are your three favorite things about me?’ :3c I mean, he had decent amount of time to think up a bunch of innocent questions that couldn’t hurt her in any way like ‘what is your favorite color?’ or ‘do you like cookies?’ or even ‘what’s the capitol of France?’ But instead he basically demands she compliment him. Coming from a guy who spent most of the last two seasons refusing to take ‘no’ for an answer that’s a bit… icky.

THIS

He could’ve phrased it in any way and he used it to get compliments from her. :|

At least Ladybug asked a legitimate question about how he felt about her guardian status.

Anonymous said:

I had this idea for an episode: Luka finds out that Marinette is LB because he is in danger. Let's say he gets yeeted off a building by an akuma and Marinette (in her civilian form) jumps after him, transforms while Luka sees it (he's shook, obviously), she grabs him and saves him from falling. I think that would be pretty epic, do you think you could write a one-shot based on that idea if you feel like that? I would forever be thankful. Have a nice day!

I like the idea, though I feel like that’s been done a lot before in identity reveal fanfics.

Anonymous said:

You know, despite them all getting interrupted, I thought the attempts at Lukanette dates was really cute. Luka picking up Marinette from school, the two trying to see who is the biggest jagged fan, getting ice cream at Andre's, it's really cute! I only wish Hawkmoth and the writers weren't such dickheads.

It’s so adorable!

Like--show, you aren’t doing a good job at getting me off the Lukanette train.

Anonymous said:

Are you sure the Lukanette breakup wasn't Marinette's fault? I mean, the episode frames it like she's refusing to tell the truth, even if it's for a good reason.

I’m not sure when I said that the episode didn’t frame it as her fault?

Things are ALWAYS Marinette’s fault, it’s literally a rule of the show.

Anonymous said:

You know the truth episode actually gives more reasons for lukanette in my opinion based of its description you said. Luka is ridiculously understanding and also almost manages to fight off hawk moth as well as taking probably a week at least for him to get to that and yet he, while he’s upset, still tries to be there for marinette. Also makes the relationships she has with her friends and family worse if the secret they think she has is that she likes adrien while dating Luka.

YES!!

And oh my gosh, I feel the friends and family comment so badly. Just throwing it out there, maybe you guys don’t actually support her???

Anonymous said:

How do you feel about Luka having no negative reaction to this whole "Marinette loves Adrien" thing? I understand that he isn't exactly the jealous type, but still, it seems weird to me that he just accepts it while Marinette is dating him. I love Luka a lot, but in this situation his reaction was just so unrealistic...

Honestly, I find it really interesting. Plus, it’s Truth who’s being told those things, not Luka, and Truth has other priorities.

And--I mean, I’m positive that Luka got into the relationship knowing that Marinette wasn’t completely over Adrien. She wanted to see if they’d work and he wanted to date her. It’s both of them being a little selfish in a way and I like that.

That’s why I think he doesn’t have a big reaction to the Adrien call. He seems amused more than anything, and Luka is empathetic also so he knows not to take Marinette’s stammering/mistakes to heart because she doesn’t mean them. We already had evidence of that in “Desperada.”

writingamongther0ses said:

Even if Lukanette had stayed together, I have a feeling Alya would complain that it's not Adrien...which could lead to a character growth opportunity for her when her complaining leads to Luka getting hurt when he overhears and becomes an akuma. But that's too interesting.

Interesting character relationships??? In THIS show???

never

Anonymous said:

After watching Truth the only thing I can feel at the moment is bitter. Not angry, not sad, not disappointed. Just bitter.

Bitter’s a good way of putting it, yeah. *sigh*

Anonymous said:

The fact that the second episode released managed to get a bingo really says a lot about how predictable the show's garbage fire writing.

I KNOW, RIGHT??

I knew the Lukanette episode would be a big card filler but DAMN.

Anonymous said:

I hated all of Truth, but perhaps the worst part was how hard they tried to remind you that, no matter how much of a good time Marinette and Luka have together, it's Adrien who Marinette will end up with in the end. From Alya rudely insinuating "girl, you're acting stupid, is Adrien at your house?", to Luka receiving a PICTURE of Adrien from a kwami, to Marinette talking on the phone with Luka while her Adrien pictures are in the background, to Marinette CALLING LUKA ADRIEN, to Truth demanding that people tell him Marinette's secret, only for them ALL to say "She's in love with Adrien Agreste.".

It's absolutely anger-inducing because it tries too hard to let the audience know to forget about Luka because Adrien is lurking in the corner and he and Marinette are endgame. The fans are right, Luka IS a second choice, but not in the way they think. Luka's a second choice, not for Marinette, but for the Miraculous Ladybug world. for the WRITERS!!!

But what bothers me the most is that everyone saying that Marinette loves Adrien is accepted as truth even when Marinette herself says she's over Adrien. Her words are ignored, how she feels is ignored, because everyone else(including the girl squad, when they're supposed to be her "friends") tells her that she's supposed to be in love with Adrien, and so she "has" to go along with it because ENDGAME. It's the show saying "stupid naive Marinette, you're too immature and dumb to know how you really feel, let someone else do the thinking for you!"

Meanwhile Adrien moving on with Kagami is accepted even when he still flirts with Ladybug(and forces her to build up his ego when he asks her what she admires most about him; I know it was a spur of the moment thing, but meta-wise, it was obvious love square pushing.), because "he's trying to respect her feelings and date someone else!" It's one of the main gripes I have with the show: that teenage girls are too emotional and confused to know what they really want, but teenage boys are mature and rational enough to make up their minds about who they love without holding any animosity towards anyone.

The all-white, all-male writing team pushes the Chinese girl's feelings aside and forces her to hide and erase them if they're not want they want her to feel, while the white boy gets congratulated with a pat on the back for doing the bare minimum and always, ALWAYS, takes the moral high ground(even in superhero form when he's supposedly goofy.). When she's the lead.

"Luka's a second choice, not for Marinette, but for the Miraculous Ladybug world. for the WRITERS!!!“

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

It’s just tiring. It’s not even me being sick of the love square, but it being forced into everything when it’s not even relevant. The episode strategically throws more and more of Marinette’s Adrien crush (I did the math, I know this) into the mix and it provides nothing but the same tired jokes. Heck, they keep leaning on the lucky charm Marinette let him borrow (not GAVE, let him BORROW) back in Season 1 because they basically have nothing else to go off of.

#category: salt #episode: Truth #other: ml spoilers #other: ask and answer

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flying-elliska · 3 years

Text

Just binge read the Bone Season series by Samantha Shannon and !!!!!! amazing. Now I want to yell about it for a bit, bear with me (essay incoming sorry)

- the concept already, urban fantasy dystopia, just feels both so fresh and so obvious it's surprising it's not more of a Thing, and the world building is next level. the modern technology + Victorian aesthetics is not just cool (although it is) it evokes the fact that Victorian England was a brutal, very unequal and fucked up society, so it really fits a dystopia. Plus Scion is also an evil empire that invades other countries, which is also thematically relevant, as is the fact that the MC is Irish.

- I'm obsessed with the concept of a magical mob and Underworld (unsurprisingly) and people who are pushed to the margins of society because their very existence has been outlawed and bond together to find freedom but are also forced to exist in a state of constant brutality and the damage it all does

- the first book throws a lot of plot and world building at you in ways that can be a bit overwhelming and confusing, and doesn't give you a lot of time to connect emotionally to the characters, so that took me a while, but it's really worth pushing through for, i love them all now.

- I love the main character, Paige, so much. she's a survivor ; clever, witty, action oriented and very down to earth ; she's also very competent in ways that feel earned, and interestingly flawed, not some gratuitous emotionless Strong Female Character with plot armor or a 'not like other girls' complex. She's proud and she has a mean, ruthless streak. She's brave, too loyal for her own good, and impulsive to the point of recklessness, and sometimes her gambles pay off and sometimes she has to pay a very heavy price for them (it made me yell at the page several times). It's really cool to see a female MC that is so invested in the politics of her world. I hate that so many female mains in fantasy or dystopia are these isolated loners who hate politics, only really care about a handful of people and want to retire to their husband/2.5 kids happy ending as fast as possible, with a plot-line that focuses over personal development rather than political goals, because it sends this weird message that women are not meant to be in the public space. (Not making this into a rant about the Shadow and Bone books but lol I could)

Paige has to shoulder massive burdens that nobody in their right mind should want and that's understandable, but you do get the sense that she enjoys being a criminal, running free and scheming and climbing over roofs and outwitting her enemies and sticking it to the government. She doubts herself sometimes, worries about people only valuing her for her powers, but she doesn't have a lot of time to waste on self-consciousness, angsting or moping about her feelings. It's very empowering to read. And she's fiercely compassionate in moments where it's actually very dangerous for her to be. She has this constant struggle between the part of her that finds injustice intolerable and the part of her that is grimly pragmatic. This is exactly what women in fiction have been excluded from for too long, complex dilemmas about action and morality taken seriously, not just love triangle shit. It's great. Although wow does she deserve a break. Ouch. Baby </3

- the world is incredibly fucked up but there seems to be no sexism/homophobia/racism, which is refreshing to read. the main romance is m/f but there's a lot of ambient queerness, just because and not to 'make a point' ; the author has confirmed that the MC is demisexual, her bff is gay, the love interest is pan, there's a badass trans commander/mob boss, you get randomly informed that this henchwoman has a wife or that this mobster is trying to save his boyfriend, it's great (and it's not a word-of-god after the fact thing like jkr it's actually shown on the page, they just don't use any labels)

- the main romance is a slow build that is very low-key at first, enemies to reluctant allies to friends to lovers, but becomes really powerful over time. the fact that the MC is demi means it can't rely on 'omg so hot i can't stop thinking about him!' clichés - nothing wrong with attraction at first sight but it often leads to lazy storytelling and irritating instalove, tell over show romances. the characters are drawn to each other but it's more of a meeting of minds and souls at first, admiration and common goals, and their actions are still first and foremost guided by strategy, not sentiment. (sidenote I've often wondered if i wasn't at least a little demi myself. that would explain why i have such high standards for credible romance lmao.) also there's a significant power imbalance at the start but it gets very much deconstructed before anything can happen and it's an interesting negotiation. Warden could easily have fit in the 'brooding immortal douchebags' category but there's an alienness and gentleness to him that lifts him above that, along with the respect and space he gives to Paige and their shared experience of trauma and hopes for a better world. Her hot-headedness and his calm, deadpan sort-of-humor play off each other really well. Also I love the idea that develops over the series that their connection isn't a distraction from their fight but that it makes them stronger and allows them to resist and find solace from the deluge of constant horror that is their world. their whole dynamic in s4...no words. also the second time i read a scene where one character is bandaging the other's wounds and there's touch aversion involved and like, I LOVE that.

- lots of complex different bad guys. some are just brutes, some are sadistic masterminds with superiority complexes, some are deceptive and manipulative and morally ambiguous. love that the Big Bad Guy is a woman - female characters being fully realized means that sometimes, they're just incredibly evil (as long as it's not tied to their gender, i love that). Paige and Jaxon's relationship is fascinating - he's a terrible, manipulative person but i do feel in his own way, he cares about her and wants to see her thrive ; but that's not necessarily a good thing as he sees it as a justification to make her go through awful things. She knows he's awful but she can't get over the fact that he took her in, taught her, believed in her and gave her a sense of belonging and freedom when nobody else did ; she was super proud of being his mollisher and it makes sense it would take time for her to rebuild her sense of self without that, on her own. I like that the ambiguity isn't resolved (it's also a very good illustration of how emotionally abusive parental dynamics can get their hooks in you). The fact that he's aroace really works there too, could have been a lot creepier otherwise and i feel that's really not the point.

- also it's really cool how each book really feels like its own thing, it never feels repetitive, there are huge twists and a shift of focus each time - the penal colony in Oxford in the first, the London Underworld in the second, traveling through England in the third, Paris in the fourth, etc. The pace is pretty breakneck and i wasn't bored for one moment - actually at times i would have liked more quiet moments w the characters. There are two novellas that focus more on that and the second one is an exploration of trauma and recovery that's particularly hard hitting and beautiful. The first book does feel like a beginner novel, it's a bit clunky in terms of exposition, pacing and character development etc ; and there are moments where all the violence and brutality feel a bit repetitive ; but overall the story builds up so beautifully and in so many complex ways it's just really worth it and it's not for nothing i read the four books and two novellas in five days. just have to wait for the next one now though argh

- anyway more people should read it

#the bone season #samantha shannon #book reviews #paige mahoney #bookblr #the mime order #the song rising #the mask falling #ellie reads things

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dramaticviolincrescendo · 3 years

Note

Rewatching Shameless and i just watched 6x1 jail scene. Can I request a meta if its not too much trouble? I feel like reading a really good meta about that scene and you're one of the best we've got so.....

It’s never any trouble at all! That’s so sweet to say—thank you so much! <3 Kind of coming to terms with the idea that anyone cares about my opinion over here. You guys are too much!

This scene is actually extremely important to me because it and the response to it were what made me start writing Shameless fanfiction, specifically when I saw that my views regarding Ian’s behavior and how Mickey received it were so vastly different from what I initially read. (Insert shameless plug for “That Milkovich Reputation” here.) Now, I know you’ve told me not to do this before, but based on the controversial position in which this scene resides, I feel the need to present a couple of disclaimers for our audience at large.

I first fell in love with Shameless last March, a couple weeks before quarantine began. I didn’t know what it was prior to that and therefore was not present when Noel left the show, so I didn’t experience the disappointment of a beloved character leaving in a potentially permanent way and didn’t engage in the fandom or see how deeply upset people were by that until after I finished the series. I also don’t subscribe to the theory that there was something going on behind the scenes or any animosity between Noel and the creators, as I have not seen any relevant evidence from reliable sources to support that what happened was anything other than decisions made in pursuit of career goals on both sides. As such, my analysis of this scene has only ever taken the content and context of the story and characters into account. I have no interest in speculating on the motives of people I do not know in writing it or portraying it this way, and even if I did, this scene made perfect sense to me as it was written and performed.

I understand and appreciate that this is not a popular position to take and urge everyone to pass this post by if my position on that matter is offensive or upsetting to you. I do not mean to tell anyone what to think or believe, only to explain how I view this scene and the context in which I do so.

That said, let’s begin.

When Last Seen: Mickey

As in all things, context is important. Prior to the prison scene, the last time we saw Mickey was when Ian broke up with him and Sammi interrupted their heartfelt moment, which basically sums up her character in a nutshell. That was a rough couple of days for Mickey. He saw how devastated Ian was to hear his family talk about him as though he were just like Monica; was distressed in his own right to return for him and discover that he’d left the base with Monica; buried his frustration and sadness by sleeping around with other people, which seemed to exacerbate those emotions because those people weren’t Ian, nor had he and Ian broken up when he did it; and came running when Ian called him, only for Ian to end their relationship.

Mickey is a very sharp man—we know this. He can read people like books and manipulate or intimidate them accordingly. He knew Ian had feelings for him in s1 when he showed up on his doorstep seeking comfort rather than going to any number of other people he trusted. He was well aware that Ian loved him in s3, and that made what he felt he had no choice in doing that much more painful. He heard what Ian said and knew what he was doing in 5x12. Of that, I have never had any doubt. It wasn’t like Ian tried to hide that he didn’t want to break up but thought that that was what would be best. In fact, the way he initially framed it always made me think that one of his highest priorities was not dragging Mickey down with him, especially in the aftermath of being called “destructive” and similar to someone who “put them through hell.” That’s why Mickey’s response wasn’t to call him an asshole or get angry or beg. It was to reassure Ian that he was there for the long haul, that he loved him and wanted to take care of him no matter what that meant—and that they could make that work. All the sentiments Ian had tried to communicate before he got married, Mickey was reciprocating in his own way. Had they not needed to temporarily write Mickey out of the story and Sammi hadn’t shown up right that second, I believe that he wouldn’t have given up so easily. We do have confirmation of that being the case in the prison scene, but we’ll get to that shortly.

When Last Seen: Ian

Ian isn’t a selfish character. We know this, too. However, Ian needed to be selfish by the end of s5. What he had to come to terms with wasn’t something that anyone could fully help him with, much as Mickey desperately wanted to. To Ian, the enemy was within. It was inside him, in his brain, telling him what to do even if that destroyed himself and everything he loved. It’s terrifying. I’m not bipolar, nor do I suffer from any other diagnosed mental illnesses, but I admire and respect everyone who wakes up every morning and tackles these things. They’re heroes every single day. But by the end of s5, Ian doesn’t feel much like a hero. Instead, he feels like the villain, and he’s lost touch with who he even is anymore.

That’s not a healthy mindset to have in a relationship. Relationships require a level of give and take, and that used to be something that Ian and Mickey already struggled with. Ian gave more in s1-3 because he was able to, while Mickey had a limit on what he could openly give because of the environment in which he lived and the manner in which he was raised. In s4-5, those roles were reversed: Mickey was able to give so much more, but Ian was gradually falling apart. Neither of them are at fault for any of those situations. It is what it is, and they have a stronger relationship for it. Ian is a giver, though. He’s always been a giver. To be in a position where he doesn’t feel like he can give anything to Mickey because he doesn’t even know who he is was truly heartbreaking for him, and objectively, he needed to take a step back so that he could focus on himself. He knew it. Based on Mickey’s understanding of Ian’s reasons after watching him deny that he had a problem for so long, I think Mickey knew it too. This hurt both of them—Ian to say it and Mickey to hear it—but they’re not fools and they’re not naïve. In some ways, they know each other better than anyone.

Jimmy said that when you’re on a plane, they tell you to put on your mask before you help anyone else with theirs. Ian needed to put on his mask. His heart can’t keep beating if his lungs don’t work.

Starting Season 6: Mickey

Unsurprisingly, Mickey has settled into prison life just fine. We’ll focus on his interactions with Ian in a bit as that’s the meat of the scene, but there are major implications inherent in his discussion with Svetlana beforehand.

1. Mickey has accepted that this will be his reality for the foreseeable future. What else is he supposed to do? Besides, he’s known for a long time that the likelihood of ending up in prison was pretty high for him, as he alluded to in s2. He was a street thug. He stole from local stores, sold drugs, ran guns, operated a rub ‘n’ tug, created scam companies, and was a generally violent presence in the neighborhood for years. He was in juvie twice during the show, perhaps more beforehand. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that it would have been more surprising if Mickey didn’t get locked up at some point than that he did.

2. Ian has visited Mickey before. We won’t get too deeply into this yet, but he thanks Ian for “coming back.” The other times, he wasn’t even paid to do it. So, as far as Mickey can tell, nothing has changed. Ian is focusing on himself right now, but his love for Mickey hasn’t dulled at all. That’s an encouraging thought, and it certainly puts a smile on Mickey’s face.

3. Ever the opportunist and entrepreneur, Mickey really is doing just fine in prison. He runs a business, if you will, that appears to be quite lucrative already. This isn’t surprising either. Sadly, it’s a bad move. He’s already going to be in prison for somewhere around a decade, give or take a couple of years depending on his behavior. But his behavior isn’t good. He’s hurting people for money, and if he gets caught and brought up on more charges, not only will he serve the full fifteen years, but he could get more time added onto that.

4. Ian is aware of this arrangement. He has to be if he’s been going there with Svetlana, and they weren’t exactly hiding what they were talking about. Ian has been very consistent throughout the series: he’s not as concerned with the moral implications of Mickey’s behavior, just how it could potentially impact their ability to be together. He still cares about Mickey at the start of s6, and Mickey can see it on his face when he won’t say it out loud. (More on that shortly.) Once he’s in a better spot mentally, maybe they would have gotten back together had Mickey been on the outside. I’m of the opinion that they would have based on the context of the situation. It isn’t an option, however. This is Mickey’s reality, and he’s not doing everything he can to get out earlier. If anything, he’s tempting fate on not being released at all. (This, in hindsight, sounds rather similar to the issues they’re dealing with right now in s11.)

So, this is where Mickey stands at the start of the season: a prison hitman who is quite pleased that the man he loves has come to see him again, even if the latter is visibly not in a very healthy mental state.

Starting Season 6: Ian

Ian isn’t in most of 6x01. What we do see of him is typically sad or colored by his frustration, outside Carl’s welcome home party at the end of the episode. Even then, there’s an aura of discomfort that accompanies the family’s knowledge that things have changed. Carl came out of juvie a different person—they’re all different people after s5, and they’re not sure how to handle walking on eggshells around each other.

From the very start of the episode, we see that Ian is still struggling even though he’s had enough time to at least partially adjust to his medication, especially if he’s been on and off of it. It’s so sweet how Fiona gently wakes him up—it’s also a bit different. What happened to banging on the bunk bed and yelling for them to come down for breakfast? After behaving pretty normally with Debbie at the bathroom door, she’s almost handling him with kid gloves, and the punches keep coming when she reminds him that he (1) has to get up for work at a place he despises and (2) needs to remember to take his meds.

The kitchen scene is extremely telling of where Ian is at this point, and it partially shows why he’s somewhat standoffish by the time we reach the prison scene. Most of the family is gone or different. Fiona is repeatedly on him about meds and getting to work on time—Ian, Mister Responsible himself who was out of the house before anybody woke up to get to work on time as a kid. Lip is at college. Debbie is absorbed in her unconfirmed but likely pregnancy. Carl is in juvie, and Liam is playing with the switchblade he found under Carl’s pillow before they take him to pre-K. His entire support system is either gone or treating him like he’s broken. All he has is Fiona “going Fiona” on everyone. It’s clear that this is impacting him because he actually derails the conversation to say that they should go visit Carl the following weekend, which was the position Debbie used to be in when Fiona was in jail. Just like Lip shut her down, Debbie shuts Ian down, and he doesn’t say another word as he drinks his coffee—which he can’t finish because Fiona is once again on him about work, so he trudges out the door to another day of being a busboy with no dreams instead of a soldier who has a future.

Work isn’t much better. Svetlana wants him to go see Mickey when he’s determined to stay away. (We don’t have confirmation, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that he wants to distance himself if Mickey is doing something that will potentially get him into even more trouble, especially given some of his reactions at the prison.) Sean is sending Fiona to nag him about not moving fast enough when the diner isn’t even busy. When Otis is chased down by the cops and slammed against the front window, Sean rather condescendingly tells him to, “take your rag and wipe the blood and snot off the window.” Ian—West Point-aspiring, ambitious, courageous, caring, intelligent, hardworking Ian has been reduced to wiping up someone’s snot by a boss who’s living in his house with a sister that’s treating him like he’s shattered glass and a family that is growing further and further apart these days.

That is the day Ian has had before he even arrives at the prison. Odds are that that is how most of his days have gone for quite some time, minus the blood and snot. …Maybe.

The Prison Scene

Now we come to it: what you actually asked about! It’s taken this long to get here because we can’t possibly interpret this scene effectively without incorporating all of what came before it. Mickey’s position is regrettable, but he knows that Ian still loves him and is at least handling his situation with all the grace and competence that we can expect from him. Ian is a bit of a mess who’s had a bad day and is now faced with the man he loves, who he is telling himself he can’t be with, sitting behind glass—where he’ll be for a good long while.

I’m going to divide this analysis into two sections. For a scene that many prefer to forget, to me, it’s a masterpiece of storytelling.

Physicality

The body language in this scene is remarkable—phenomenally blocked, phenomenally directed, and phenomenally portrayed.

When Mickey first appears, he’s visibly chomping at the bit to get to the visitation area. He’s peering out there while he’s still behind a locked door, and he only diverts his gaze to the guard because he’s waiting for him to unlock it. He’s cool about the whole thing—he’s very cool—but he’s obviously also here for one reason and one reason only. That reason is where his eyes go the moment he sits down at his stall and spots Ian’s coat where the latter is pacing behind Svetlana. Throughout their entire conversation, we see his eyes darting to Ian as he attempts to get the business out of the way so that he can indulge purely in the pleasure. It doesn’t matter to him that Ian is visibly tired and reluctant to be there or that he plays with Yevgeny instead of actively joining their conversation. It’s Ian, and all Mickey has to look at in here is a bunch of fellow thugs he hasn’t loved since he was too young to know what that meant. Damn right, he’s going to shamelessly watch him.

In Ian’s pacing, where we can’t see his face, I find it interesting that he keeps himself angled away from the glass. We see more of his back even though he’s moving side to side rather than away. He doesn’t want to see this. He doesn’t want to be there. In s7, he told Mickey how hard it was to see him behind glass—that wasn’t an excuse. He wasn’t falsely trying to make it sound like he was suffering at their separation just as much as Mickey was. We can see that that’s the case right here in 6x01. Ian has never had a problem sitting still through difficult moments, not even when a potential court martial that would further ruin his life was on the table. But this? He can’t sit down. He can’t face that.

The first time he turns directly towards Mickey’s location is so that Svetlana can hand Yevgeny off to him, and Mickey is visibly loving the view. His expression gets a bit softer, and he ducks his head a little so that he can catch a glimpse of Ian’s face. He follows Ian with his eyes even though Svetlana tries to get his attention. What a blast from the past, right? Ian there with his son, taking care of him while he and Svetlana figure out their business? And just like before, he offers Svetlana all of the attention and input that he deems her worth—next to nothing. Ian’s over there. Ian’s keeping the kid entertained, playing with him and rocking a bit in their seat and leaning over his little shoulder to make sure he’s doing okay—but forget that, Mickey’s eyes are examining him from red hair to beat-up shoes. He only glances back to Svetlana because he has to in order to get the information for their next paycheck. Even then, he’s still back and forth, up and down.

And Ian? He can’t keep pacing. He can’t stay turned away, but he won’t look. He occupies himself more than Yevgeny because now he’s low enough that he won’t just see an orange jumpsuit—he’ll see Mickey, and he’s had a bad enough day with his family making him feel more alone than ever without adding that pain on top of it. (This is the third time Mickey’s been locked up for something directly or indirectly related to Ian. I’m sure it’s not unreasonable to suspect that he also feels somewhat guilty about that, especially when it happened right after he broke it off.)

When Mickey asks if Ian is going to sit back there the whole time and not interact with him, Svetlana turns around and presumably says something to get his attention. Their eyes meet, and Mickey gives him a look that clearly says, “What the fuck, man?” This isn’t the behavior of a man who is heartbroken at their relationship ending or questioning Ian’s love for him. This is the behavior of a man who wants the love of his life to get his shit together enough to come say hi to him—or at least look at him—because he can’t pretend that he doesn’t want to see Mickey as much as Mickey wants to see him. It’s impossible to hide that when Ian has let Mickey see so much of his heart over the years.

Ian’s response is so fascinating because he does meet Mickey’s eyes, and he holds that connection for a moment. Then, reading what Mickey is trying to tell him, he actually turns further away again so that Mickey gets his shoulder. This sets the stage for the rest of Ian’s development from now through s9. He’s doing what Ian does: he’s compartmentalizing. He’s taking the emotions he can’t deal with right now, wrapping them in tissue paper, and neatly stacking them in a box that he’ll put up in the attic where he can pretend they don’t exist. But they do. They really do.

If they didn’t, he wouldn’t have spent their entire conversation trying so hard to focus on literally anything but Mickey, because as we saw in the Hall of Shame flashbacks and as has been obvious since their first fight-turned-fuck, once they look, the battle is lost.

Dialogue

I’m going to be real with you guys: I adore this scene. I’ve watched it more times than I can count even though I haven’t rewatched much of the season in its entirety. There was so much said with so few words, and while I was sad at the end, I was also hopeful. This was an impossible position to be put in on both sides, and I truly believe that this was the best resolution they could get at the time. And yes, it hurt. It was painful. But why was it painful?

Because they’re so visibly, obviously, irrevocably in love.

Mickey’s tone when he tells Svetlana to leave because he wants to talk to Ian isn’t as harsh as it’s been for the rest of their visit. There’s such a disconnect between his words and tone: roughly telling her to scram while actually sounding a bit younger at the idea of speaking directly with Ian. Svetlana could tell. It’s so clear, and her smirk is super knowing. In that moment, we’re seeing the woman who stood in the doorway of what was supposed to be her bedroom and watched him make eyes at this unconscious boy she didn’t really even remember. Not in the tears and realizing she was in big, big trouble if he left her, but in the understanding that his heart isn’t in the body on the other side of the glass—it’s sitting behind her. There are a lot of things I don’t like about Svetlana as a person (as a character, she’s amazing), but since they reached their agreement in s4, she’s never had a derogatory thing to say about the love those two share, and I respect that. It’s actually a bit cute how she takes her time and is almost teasing in giving him what he wants. A bit.

As I have this scene running on repeat so that I don’t miss anything in writing this, I paused to type and ended up on such a meaningful glance at Ian’s face. Svetlana just took Yevgeny from him, and he hasn’t gotten up yet. He’s staring straight at Mickey, and he looks hesitant. Scared, almost. Then he looks up at Svetlana, nods a bit, and reluctantly moves into her spot.

Is it overkill to take this one exchange at a time? Probably. Am I going to do it anyway? Hell to the yes.

1. “Thanks for coming back.”/”Yeah… Svetlana paid me.” – I know that people hate this line and think this is painful. I know that it objectively is painful. I still laugh every time. Not because Ian agreed to come if he was paid. (He’s got medication to afford and no insurance. I can’t begrudge him wanting to make a few extra bucks any way he can.) Not because of the words, but because of what accompanies them. Ian will not look at Mickey—he’s lost so many battles lately, and he can’t lose this one too. Not when he started this one himself. He’s hemming and hawing, not looking up from the countertop and then twisting around to see if Svetlana is still there or anyone else is listening. It’s so stupid, because literally no one cares, but it gives you this sensation that Ian sees himself as being under a microscope the whole time. That’s his life anymore, at home and at work and now here. And Mickey? He doesn’t look terribly broken up about Ian accepting payment in exchange for coming. He gets this expression that I interpreted as, “Seriously? You’re playing it like that?” Then it settles into disappointment that Ian won’t open up or look at him like he normally would—that the glass interferes with the magnetic pull between them. But don’t worry, children. Uncle Mickey has just the thing to fix that: himself.

2. “You look good.”/*awkward silence* – I mean…what do you say to that? I actually felt so bad for Ian there because what must he have looked like these last visits if Mickey is telling him that he looks good now? What kind of mess was he then when he’s still sort of a mess today? And he can’t even return the sentiment because how can he? Mickey is in prison. He’s in a jumpsuit looking at being here so long that he’ll probably have a few grey hairs starting to grow in when he gets out. I don’t know how to respond when people tell me I look good on an average day, so I can only imagine how that must have felt in his position. And still, he won’t do more than glance in Mickey’s direction. Well, if that didn’t work…

3. Mickey chuckles and says he got a new tattoo. Ian’s eyes immediately shoot upwards, and Mickey slouches a little so that he’s in their direct line of sight—to hold them there, because once they look, the battle is lost. And Ian does lose. For a while there, he can’t look away again. First, because Mickey is courting some pretty nasty illnesses with his improper use of needles. Seriously, Mickey, a beautiful gesture but holy crap. Second, Mickey has his name (or a very close approximation to it) tattooed forever right over his heart. Ian had asked if Mickey was going to marry him, and Mickey told him to fuck off, but everything he’s doing points in the opposite direction. He promised sickness and health; now he’s made a permanent mark on his body for everyone to see. Mickey, who wouldn’t be seen in public with him once upon a time, has plastered Ian’s name onto his body. Ian tries so hard not to let that impact him, but it’s over. He’s lost the battle already, and he falls further and further. He’s smiling when he tells Mickey it looks infected, he teases him about the misspelling (which I think says more about how much that tattoo must have hurt than any inability to spell on Mickey’s part—I’d have a typo too), and he laughs at Mickey’s irritation that he messed it up. And it’s this sweet little laugh, not cruel or hurtful or mean. The wonderful thing about humor is that it can be used to cope with difficult emotions. We’ve seen a lot of people on the show start laughing when they’re in a bad place. Ian has been trying so hard to accept his life as it is even during the shitty day he was having. He tried so hard not to let himself fall into the trap of letting his love for Mickey rule his actions in the scene so far. That’s a lot. That’s denying himself to the point where I’m sure it hurts. And so he laughs, because Mickey did this crazy, absurd thing for him and yeah, it came out wrong, but he did it. This was all Ian wanted once upon a time (minus the felony), and now he has it—but he can’t have it. So he laughs. He immediately moves to hide it, but he laughs. He smiles more and has to bend away to pretend that he’s not—and Mickey lights up like a goddamn Christmas tree. This is the moment that keeps me from seeing this scene or Ian’s actions as being cruel. They’re both hurting, and this is an awful position to be in. But Ian loves him so much, and Mickey was doing everything he could to make him show it. Not exactly how he saw that going, I’m sure, but he’ll take it.

4. “Been thinking about you.” – Knowing that he lost that one, Ian looks away again. While the end of this scene will hurt for both of them, especially Mickey, think about the pain he must be feeling in that moment simply because he’s not. He’s not hurting. For the first time that day, he feels good. This can’t last. Mickey isn’t coming home with him when time is up. This wonderful emotion that filled him up enough for him to laugh and smile after such a bad day will be gone the second he hangs up that phone. Then he’s going to go home and have Fiona breathing down his neck with nobody else for support. And Mickey will be here—behind glass. He can’t handle that, and he pulls that box out again and starts tearing off the tissue paper. He has to get rid of this feeling. He has to be the one to put it away before it kicks him to the curb. He’s stubborn, and Mickey can see him shutting down but also knows that he’s knocked enough bricks out of Ian’s walls to say something softer, something emotional and closer to the heart. Something he is willing to say where the other inmates can hear, which I don’t think is lost on Ian since he immediately looks up again. He doesn’t look away either, not even when Mickey asks if Ian thinks about him. He glances to the side and opens his mouth a bit, but nothing comes out. Mickey knows the answer.

5. “Gonna wait for me?”/”You’re here for fifteen years.” – There’s this thing Mickey does after he first says that. He chuckles, because he knows that that’s pretty unreasonable to ask and has already predicted Ian’s response. His comment about being out in eight is lighthearted, a serious matter spoken as a joke because…this isn’t juvie anymore. They’re not going to see each other in a few months. This is Mickey’s version of what Ian was just doing, only where Ian tried to withdraw and escape within himself, Mickey is making it more humorous. He’s always done that, make light of pretty serious things to avoid looking at just how messed up it is. But I didn’t get the feeling he was really asking for Ian to wait that long. Instead, I got the feeling that he was testing the waters, seeing if Ian would shut him down—which he didn’t. He offered the bullshit excuse that Mickey tried to kill a member of his family, and Mickey saw through that immediately. I think he knows that he can’t ask Ian to seriously wait and never be with anyone else for fifteen years, or even for eight. I think he knows what he’s saying is a touch absurd. He also knows that Ian’s excuse is extremely absurd, and he doesn’t buy it for a second. It gives him a little courage to do something…well, a bit absurd.

6. “Will you? Wait? Fucking lie if you have to, man. Eight years is a long time.” – I think the important part of this isn’t that Ian says he’ll wait when he doesn’t mean it, which is the popular take. For one thing, I don’t think we can ascribe that level of calculated behavior to Ian in this instance. There are a few things about this part of the scene that mean a lot to me: (1) Ian doesn’t get up and go. He doesn’t even move in that direction. He sits there with the phone after the buzzer sounds and before Mickey tells him to lie. His mouth opens and closes like he’s not sure what to say. Because what can he say? If Mickey serves the maximum, Ian will be in his mid-thirties by the time they can be together. At that point, he was either nearing eighteen or just turned. I still can’t fathom what I’ll be doing in my mid-thirties, and I’m a whole lot older than that. Ian looks just a little terrified here, and that’s because he knows he loves Mickey but has no clue what he’s supposed to do with that in the impossible circumstances they’re operating under. (2) Ian can’t even see himself moving on yet. He’s still trying to figure himself out, not think about a relationship. He has a job he hates, and his family is a different brand of chaos these days. He feels alone, yes, but not in a way that has him openly desperate for a relationship. Based on what he says to Mandy about Caleb, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that he doesn’t think he’ll ever be in a serious relationship at this point or even in a position for more than casual sex anytime in the near future. How can he say that he’ll wait when he doesn’t know where he’ll be whenever Mickey does get out? Maybe he’ll feel better. Maybe he’ll be out of his mind, roaming all over the place like Monica. Maybe he won’t just be standing on that bridge. It’s a huge question, one that has a lot of ramifications no matter what his answer is, and Ian clearly has none. He’s blindsided by that, which Mickey sees. That’s when he gets serious about those eight years, about how absurd their situation really is. That’s perhaps the first and only time in this scene where we can see that, for as successful as he is at navigating prison, his freedom means something to him. His freedom means he wouldn’t have to coax a glance out of Ian—he could kiss his dumb ass and make him stop being stubborn about how much he loves Mickey. But he can’t. He won’t be able to for a long time. And I think that is what really breaks his heart in this scene, not…

7. “Yeah. Yeah, Mick, I’ll wait.” – Did anyone else notice how Ian swallowed hard before he answered? How his voice gets hoarse when he first speaks? I paused again to type, and the video is sitting on his face staring at the counter before the second part of what he says. He looks like he might cry. He looks like his heart is breaking just as much as Mickey’s is, because he can do what he’s asking this time—reassure him with a lie. Not because he doesn’t intend to wait, but because he is buried so far under what life has piled on top of him that he can’t see the light these days, and he doesn’t see waiting or moving on. He just sees the daily struggle of being this shell of a person. Of being without Mickey even if they’re not technically together. (Admittedly, I think he knew they would be if Mickey weren’t in prison at that moment. Ian has no real self-control where he’s concerned. Lip told him as much, and he’s self-aware enough to realize it, hence his behavior in this whole scene.)

When Ian hangs up the phone, he doesn’t get up immediately. He looks at Mickey—really looks at him—and each of them watches the other’s heart shatter. I don’t see it the way a lot of people do, though. On Mickey’s side, I don’t see it as being because Ian lied. I think it’s so much bigger than that.

Ian looks at him when they can’t hear each other anymore, and if he didn’t seem ready to cry before, he looks it now. Why? Because there’s nothing he can do for Mickey besides that. Ian, ever the giver, can’t give him anything. At that point, he couldn’t even help himself. He can’t be what Mickey needs in that moment, just like he couldn’t be what Mickey needed while he was sick, and it kills him. It kills him to know that by the time Mickey does get out, he’ll be older than he can fathom being and has no idea if he’ll even be around that long. It kills him to feel like even if he is, he’ll still have nothing to offer because, in his own words, this is where he lands. And it kills him to have to walk away and leave what he loves most behind glass.

Mickey is watching this. He knows Ian, and as painful as it was to get exactly what he asked for, it’s even more painful for him to see what him being here does to Ian. Where Ian is a giver, Mickey is a fixer. He makes things better. When stuff is broken, he puts it back together. When there’s a problem, he resolves it. Ian was going to leave because he couldn’t be an unacknowledged number three in Mickey’s life anymore? He jumped to solve the problem by coming out. Ian was acting strangely and wouldn’t get out of bed for so long that Mickey realized something was wrong? He immediately went to hunt down Lip, who he knows is closer to Ian than anyone else in his family. Fiona tells him that Ian is sick and needs to be cared for? He jumps in to do it, even to the point where it did more harm than good. Sammi caused a problem that Mickey couldn’t solve? He fixed the problem of her being there at all. But here he sits, behind glass, watching Ian that whole time and knowing that he was trying to maintain some emotional distance—and, because it’s Mickey, knowing why. There’s nothing he can do about this. He can’t fix it. For the first time since s3, Mickey is absolutely helpless to fix a problem. He takes a breath as Ian walks away as though he’s about to say something, but what can he say? What can he do? Nothing. He can do nothing but hang up the phone and weather the storm.

In the end, the heartbreak in this scene isn’t about them hurting each other, from my perspective. It’s not about Ian being callous and cruel or purposely trying to hurt Mickey. They know each other too well for that. They’ve been through too much. To me, this is about two people who love each other more than anything not being able to be what the other needed when they needed them—and that’s a whole lot more painful.

#shameless meta #ian gallagher #mickey milkovich

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