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musical-chick-13 · 2 years

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I think people who pick one character from AsoIaF/GoT to be The Protagonist are missing the point, because pretty much all of the characters think THEY are The Protagonist™ and that’s ultimately what screws them over.

(I also want to preface this by saying that that’s the reason I find these characters so interesting, and that this is not meant to insult any of them. I LOVE this story, and this is one of the many reasons why.)

Cersei thinks she’s the Villain Protagonist™ of a gritty drama. Even if it doesn’t make sense for things to work out for her, she assumes they will, seeing everyone around her as faceless idiots serving her narrative. Anyone and everyone will betray her because that’s what always happens in stories like this, so she won’t give them a chance to ever get there. People will move the way she assumes they will; everyone is predictable and stupid and shallow and cowardly. And as such, no one possesses the necessary skills to take her down. If she’s more ruthless and ambitious and paranoid than everyone else, she’ll get what she wants. But that’s not how life actually works, so all she does is alienate those around her, even necessary allies. People aren’t always predictable, not all of them are compliant or subservient or easily-frightened or incompetent. And if you prioritize ruthlessness and distrust, the people who aren’t those things aren’t going to see any reason to keep you around or give you aid.

Jaime thinks he’s a Cynical Misunderstood Antihero. He doesn’t need to work on bettering himself or de-internalizing his violent impulses, because he’s not the problem, it’s society, it’s people’s incorrect assessment of him. Look, he made a friend in Brienne, that must mean he’s not all bad, right? He thinks this story ends in a Public Image Rehabilitation, but he still conflates love with violence, and he still has a fucked up relationship with consent, he’s arrogant to a fault, he still insults Brienne (and just about everyone else) when the opportunity presents itself, and he never bothers trying to change that. And it’s all of this that prevents him from every truly becoming a good person. He’s so mired in this idea of being misunderstood that he doesn’t make a concerted effort to prove that he actually is. People think he’s an oath-breaker, that he has too big of an ego, that he doesn’t care about the people he swore to protect, and he thinks that simply going, “Yeah, but they don’t have the whole picture” is enough in and of itself to prove them wrong because, in a lot of stories, it is. But all his behavior does is cement his reputation as these things.

Dany thinks she’s The Chosen One, which means whatever she does is automatically the right decision. People will accept her rule because it’s hers, she deserves it, it’s morally right. All of her enemies are blanketedly wrong on all accounts in all cases. Her goals supersede anyone else’s because those goals are the way to a Happy Ending, and she doesn’t consider that other people might not see it that way. Many people’s gripes with her stem from gross places like misogyny or wanting to continue keeping slaves, but she forgets to acknowledge that some people’s issues with her might actually be valid. And that The Chosen One is actually a terrifying idea to people outside that person’s immediate personal context. She has three sentient WMDs, essentially. And if she thinks that using them is always morally correct, that the fallout from doing so can’t possibly be a problem because she’s using them and it’s for a noble cause, you end up with what happened in Astapor; and you end up with Drogon killing a child in Mereen and, eventually, her demise at the end of the show.

Sansa starts out thinking she’s an Optimistic Child Hero in a fairytale. This leads to her being held captive at court (she trusted that the authority figures were benevolent), writing a letter to her family that almost comes back to bite her to a deadly degree once her sister finds out in the show (she thought she could solve everything herself via a peaceful resolution), and to her trusting a complete monster of a boy until it’s too late (she thought he was Prince Charming). She thinks that being the Soft, Beautiful Heroine means people will love her and everything will end nicely and neatly, but sometimes instead of “love”, people just take advantage of you. And sometimes their reaction to your beauty isn’t innocent appreciation-sometimes you end up with Littlefinger. (Or Tyrion or The Hound who...let’s just leave it at “they have their own issues,” especially book-wise.) This morphs into assuming that a fairytale-esque betrayal will befall her with every new person she meets. It’s why she defends Petyr after his murder of Lysa, and it’s why she doesn’t leave with Brienne; if she’s going to be betrayed anyway, she might as well at least stick with a villain she understands.

Ned thinks he’s the Noble Hero in a typical fantasy series. He doesn’t consider everyone else’s capacity for cruelty or the idea that honor alone might not be enough. Sometimes there are no perfect choices, sometimes mercy does not give you the end goal you envisioned, and sometimes you can try your best and that can all be undone by one impulsive, unforeseeable action. You can’t honor your way out of ruthless political conflict.

Robb thinks he’s a Romantic War Hero, and thus everything will magically work out for him. His ideals and his marriage will conquer everything. But he broke a marriage promise to a powerful family, and that has consequences. The world won’t bend to his will, not even if he is doing the right thing or has noble goals, not even if he’s had war success, not even if the people at home love him, not even if he’s in love (show) or doing the most honorable thing he can (books). He thinks that being the hero means he can make it through Westeros without having to play the game, and he gets murdered for it.

Theon thinks he’s an Underdog Outcast Hero. He’ll come up from behind with an unsuspecting War Victory, and that will earn him respect, the love of his family, and a legacy he can look back on with pride. And that mindset leads him to murder two children, to drive away any allies and good grace he had at Winterfell, and the reason that the War Victory he imagined was so unexpected is because it’s completely untenable. He gets more and more desperate and it’s increasingly harder and harder to hold onto the control he’s managed to obtain. He has reasons for wanting this that make sense, and he’s been dealt a pretty bad hand in life, and he thinks that’s and his determination to overcome his personal identity struggles is enough to not only justify his actions, but ensure that those actions will be successful. And then his plan blows up in his face, he assumes he’s been miraculously saved (probably still having something to do with seeing himself as The Unexpected Hero), and ends up at Ramsay’s mercy.

Arya thinks she’s a Badass Heroine in the making, a skilled swordslady and Rebellious Princess who’s destined for more than this stuffy life of politics and dresses and formalities. But rebelling isn’t always enough. It doesn’t help with the Mycah situation, and she still needs to rely on others’ help in getting out of the city after Ned is executed. When she does try to embrace the “fully self-sufficient sword lady” idea while with the Faceless Men in Braavos, she is told to functionally discard her identity completely. She does an unauthorized kill because she, not her assassin-persona-in-training, wants to (though the victim’s identity differs in books and show), which leads to her being temporarily blinded and prevented from going on assassination missions, and outright forced to beg for food in the show. In the show, after being reinstated as an apprentice, she is tasked with killing an innocent person, refuses (rebels), and realizes that this life is one she can’t handle. She goes home, and her heading straight for her sword is one of the things that almost completely ruins her relationship with Sansa. In the upcoming Winds of Winter release, her chapter excerpt has her prioritizing revenge over her apprentice duties, and she remarks that her new identity is ruined with this rebellious action. When you rebel, there are consequences-this doesn’t change just because your intentions are good or because you are or think you are important.

Jon thinks, similarly to Ned, that he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing, that following The Code is paramount. He thinks that, because he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing with the maximum amount of good for everyone will always be a workable option, and that the heroic option will always yield the best result. This is why he thinks proclaiming his love to Ygritte in the show will end well (because love is good and conquers everything) and is, instead, shot by her several times. It’s why he doesn’t foresee a mutiny in either medium, which leads to his (temporary) death. (Let’s be real, he’s getting resurrected in the books, too, this is the one thing I’m sure of.) Because yes, everything is tense and he’s on bad terms with the Watch, but surely they wouldn’t go that far. It’s rough going, and he has to juggle the needs of several widely different groups of people, but he’s doing the right thing and that will win out; his conviction will protect him, at least for the time being while he tries to manage the bigger threat of the White Walkers. The real fight is with them, the mysterious overarching enemy, not within his own ranks. This is a story where everyone puts aside their differences to fight a greater threat-except for the times when it isn’t.

Even Catelyn isn’t immune, as she assumes that Petyr, since he’s her childhood friend, is invested in solving the mystery of what happened to Bran when he tells her the dagger used in the attack was Tyrion’s. Lysa is her sister, she can’t possibly be suspicious. She thinks the Lannisters are evil, her instincts tell her that they were behind everything, she’s the Protective Mother Heroine, so she must be right. But although she is to a certain extent correct, that’s not the complete picture. And this slightly-misplaced confidence leads her to arrest Tyrion, the retaliation of which is Tywin siccing his forces on her homeland, one of the major first steps in the upcoming political war. Then, her continued focus on saving her children-something that must take precedence because they are her children, and this is her story-leads her to taking Walder Frey’s supposed offer of a fix-it solution for Robb breaking his marital pledge at face value, despite House Frey’s reputation, and despite this neat resolution seeming far too good to be true. She’s so focused on the Lannisters-the Obvious Endgame Enemy-that she doesn’t consider the possibility of betrayal from the Freys. She thinks that the world is giving her a break-because she is so desperately looking for one, because she deserves one, because her family deserves one, and those are reasons enough for her to have one-that she doesn’t even bother to re-evaluate the situation until it’s too late.

Melisandre thinks she’s a Religious Hero, but she ends up burning a child alive and alienating one of her few remaining allies in the process (and Davos was barely an ally to begin with). She thinks she’s Doing What Needs To Be Done to serve her savior, but it hurts Stannis more than it helps him, and he just ends up being murdered by Brienne. This is obviously in the show only (at least at this point), and I don’t know if Stannis is going to burn Shireen in the books or not. Stannis thinks he’s the Lawful Hero, and thus, because according to law he’s the Rightful Ruler, anything he does is automatically excusable; he’s just righting a wrong. And in the process, he imprisons his closest friend, has a hand in murdering his brother (when kinslaying is one of the most universally hated breaches of conduct in this fictional universe), allies with a dangerous woman that much of his own court despises, and, in the show, murders his only child and drives away most of the rest of his remaining team.

They all think that, since they are the main characters of their own stories, that they’re the main character of the larger, overarching narrative. That having understandable reasons or sympathetic qualities or even just having a clear goal that they desperately want, that’s enough to cement their importance. And they think that means that they’re justified in everything they do, that everything will work out for them, that the consequences will be lesser for them than for others, because that’s what it’s like to be the main character. The whole point is that there is not A Protagonist™ and that maybe we should examine why a story needs A Protagonist™ in the first place and what that narrative tradition tells us. When GRRM said he turned down adaptation offers because they only wanted to focus on Jon and Dany, this is why.

#asoiaf #got #asoiaf meta #got meta #most of this is directly related to everyone deconstructing the archetypes they would represent in other stories #so I'm not sure how much of this is just 'deconstructing tropes' and how much of it is 'Main Character Perception Syndrome'#also obviously this isn't every character I ran out of room and honestly some of them like davos and brienne and maybe even loras #probably don't think they're The Main Character which there's a whole other essay in there about how they're The Good People #I personally think Bran never gave off 'I think I'm the main character' energy but I know haters will disagree with me on that #like...Idk his sense of self-worth kind of went away and he spent a bunch of time trying to get it back and figure out how to get by #in a society that now thought he was worthless. and how to get enjoyment out of life when his goals were no longer reachable #it read less as 'I think I'm more Important™' and more 'I'm just trying to survive man' but also I love bran I might be a little biased lmao #cersei lannister #jaime lannister #dark!dany #sansa stark #arya stark #theon greyjoy #jon snow #catelyn stark #robb stark #ned stark #melisandre #stannis baratheon #I take my life into my own hands by putting actual names in the tags but I talk about these characters and I don't know how else to tag #this to ensure people who don't want to see it won't have to see it #also for anyone wondering where tyrion is on this list: I was too tired to delve into this phenomenon regarding him because it is ESPECIALLY #prominent regarding him. and this post was already so long and talking about tyrion in this context probably would've made it TWICE as long #there genuinely isn't enough space in here to include him but know that I'm counting him too. most definitely #behold! a creation!

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bonefall · 8 months

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Two questions! What's Leopardstar doing after her death? She got dammed so hard that there was a comet in the sky iirc, and Starclan happily gave Mistystar her lives, so I imagine that Lep is PISSED that her murderer is being welcomed as a hero, while she's rotting in the DF. I would like to know how she feels about Tigerstar's plans, since BB Lep was an active supporter of his idealology

I thiiiink the fallen star thing was a joke, but it is a very funny image to think that any damned spirit becomes one tbh

But actually! Leopardstar and Mudclaw are both kind of ashamed of what they did. Leopardstar is more resigned to her fate, while Mudclaw eventually decides he wants to atone and gets involved with the StarClan bridge.

Being around Tigerstar and a bunch of the worst offenders of TigerClan has brought a lot of it back. Distance had made her begin to feel that there was no need to "throw the kitten out with the tonguewash." Tigerstar himself was bad, yes... but is it *really* so wrong to want a pure, strong Clan? What's wrong with putting RiverClan first?

But now she's back under his claw. Being spoken over, used as a pawn, just like old times. She hasn't confronted the CORE of how her ideology is bad, but she does remember know how humiliating this situation was, and how terrible Tigerstar really is.

But at the same time, she is proud. She cannot let Mistystar go unpunished. She wants "revenge," though, to her "revenge" is a rematch.

On the day she died, Mistystar attempted to poison Leopardstar's food, in a way unintentionally similar to how Leopardstar poisoned Crookedstar before them. So she recognized it right away. It struck her in that moment that she was sick of these dirty, dishonorable tactics.

So she pushed it aside, leapt to the top of the stump, and announced that she had learned of a pack of vicious rogues on the border. "Mistyfoot and myself will confront them. Alone. Don't follow."

Mistystar only won the fight through luck. There was a stone in the river where they fought, and she smashed Leopardstar's head on it until she stopped moving.

So, Leopardstar uses this in her death to hold a grudge. I think on some level she knows it's an excuse, or perhaps a quirk of her pride, that she feels her death was unfair. She believes she gave leadership to Mistystar by covering for her own murder-- and she WANTS that perfect fight.

But before the BOTTE, I plan for her to have a conversation with her apprentice. Hawkfrost's arc is to break free of his father and his legacy... and he needs to speak to his proud, strong leader, who he comes to realize is being used like a tool.

It's another step in his revelation about cycles. How he was used, how he's done the same thing to Ivypool, how people have been doing this to his loved ones long before he was born.

#Now and then I see a passing sentiment of frustration towards writers who write fic where black gets redeemed but leopard doesnt #But understand this; I LOVE Leopardstar.#And I thought a lot about the story I was gonna tell in my redux of TNP #And this story works better with her. Largely because of her supporting cast #Between Misty Sedge Hawk Moth and Storm #They all come together to tell this story much better than Black Russet and Tawny can #And on a less important note... I hate how much they tried to soften Leopard. With all of her supporting material #But ive gone off about her before and im sure I will again lmao #But shes MY spotted mean girlboss and you will pry her from my cold dead hands #LET GIRLS BE PROUD. LET GIRLS BE CONSUMED BY IT #Better bones au #BB!Leopardstar

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kelpermoosee · 6 months

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I need to draw Booigi real soon, the lack of them is making me itchy

#kelperambles #uhhh pic is unrelated but I thought the paper luigi was cute 💖#anyways I just wanted to ramble about how much I love booigi LMAO #but like I need the very specific type of booigi that has been rotting in my brain in order to be satisfied #OKAY OKAY. picture this: Names are such an important thing to Luigi. Many people don’t tend to remember the bare minimum about him #so he really appreciates the few people who take enough time to remember his actual name or small things about him #then when King Boo pulls up he’s literally yelling Luigi’s name and cursing him out #sure while Luigi is still scared of him he can’t help but feel flattered that King Boo subconsciously respects him enough to call him Luigi #not green mario. not the man in green. just him…truly him.#and while Luigi might not want an designated enemy (like what Mario and bowser have)#the fact that king boo believes that Luigi is significant enough to be his enemy is something Luigi cannot ignore #King Boo acknowledges Luigi for his strengths in his weird theater kid way #but I can really see them growing closer together once Luigi discovers that King Boos plays everything up just to be DRAMATIC ✨✨#king boo WANTS luigi to react. and if he doesn’t get that he more or less just lets go of the act #like what’s the point of setting everything up if Luigi’s not even going to match his high energy?#honestly they just need to both RELAX for a second and they would really hit it off #it’s actually embarrassing. they’re so embarrassing.

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quaranmine · 1 month

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random firewatch au detail that has basically no impact on the story unless you want to psychoanalyze fw!grian even further than i did as the author, but it's very intentional that i always refer to both of mumbo's parents but only grian's mom. did i give him daddy issues? i guess so, but not in a way where i really deeply examined the implications as meaningful to the story. it was just a detail i stuck with from the beginning as a way to keep fleshing out the story's background subtly. the idea behind grian's dual citizenship was always that he was born in america to an american dad and british mom, and that his mom moved back to the UK when he was very young since she wanted to be closer to her family. perhaps his dad didn't go with them? or perhaps his dad did, and then later they split and he went back to america? whatever the cause, grian never even mentions his dad in the story, and it wasn't because i intended him to be dead (because that would have come up in a story about grief) if you get me

#i have no idea why but i normally HATE thinking about cubitos' parents in like. normal mcyt settings sjlfjslkfjs #if i'm writing a hermitcraft-setting fic i'd rather have them all just spawn into the world fully formed than dealing with their parents LO #but in a real-world au it made more sense for the characters to mention their parents occasionally #i just similarly didn't spend TOO much time worrying about it because it was not really the focus #everybody's relationships with their family is a bit less important here than their relationships with their Friends here you know?#i also think that ivi inspired this a little because somewhere early in the fic she was like hey what Made grian react to things like this?#like what experiences in his life primed him to react like This to the story events?#i was like. oh yeah.#cause i normally approach writing grian from the perspective of watcher!grian #but normally him on hermitcraft or life series AFTER he escaped them and it's more of an old trauma that informs his present actions #with firewatch au there is like....none of that pretext. there's no context that he might have had other trauma in life?#but i WAS writing him like that. out of habit. and i'm not saying he DID have prexisting trauma in firewatch au #that's very much something i haven't bothered to flesh out because it's in the zone of things where my time was better spent elsewhere #but i will say i think i only starting doing the one parent detail AFTER ivi mentioned this lmao #i mean. if the guy's got abandonment issues it probably explains a lotttt of his fear of giving up on Mumbo. just sayin'#hc_firewatch_au

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peakvincent · 10 days

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i have a lot of half-articulated thoughts about the girl/girlie trend happening culturally rn but i think they come down to like-- i think a lot of the women who are referring to themselves as girls have come from a space where they feel like their actual girlhood wasn't as rewarding or fun as it could have been. everything you can buy is aggressively gendered, but also it's uncool and embarrassing to like "girl stuff," and you're literally seven so how are you supposed to unpack that dichotomy. and that just sticks around as you get older, and you start getting told that girls mature faster, it's just how it is, boys will be boys, etc etc etc. you're get treated like a grownup before you're ready and before it's fair. so then you are a grownup and you have all the downsides of bills and responsibility and work or whatever, but you also have the chance to be a ✨ girlie ✨ in a way that never felt fun or accessible before? idk man. i don't think there's nothing there.

#*#i am very much coming at this from the perspective of like.... i'm a lesbian and most of the important people in my life are women lmao #so for me there's certainly less of a concern of it being like... this is how men already think of us or w/e #i am living my life in a way where i think very rarely of men and vice versa.....

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doctorwormcore · 7 months

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What i think i love the most about the live action is just how much love there is? Yeah its different from the anime, but honestly....kinda better. I love how kind they all are, the strawhats clearly just love each other already, their own little family

#opla #crying screaming throwing up #i hope we do get to see more of their og personalities shine through #i.e. sanji being a bit of a hotheaded dumbass and zoro being a bit of a moron and nami being a bit more a big sister hahaha #but i love the opla strawhats so much man #i love that they highlight that sanji is inherently soft or that usopp really is charismatic or that zoro really is a snarky gay bitch lmAO #and like i ADORE opla nami #im so excited for chopper man... im watching the anime atm and he still isnt here yet ;-;#boku wa doctor tony tony chopper if you even care #god if they made everyone else hot can you imagine how hot robin will be!?!?!?#ugh....can you imagine how theyd tackle whole cake island with soft!sanji ....feelsbadman.jpg #i mean we have a LONG way to go before we even tackle the time skip....very apprehensive as yo how sanjis will be tackled bc girl...#lbr that shit was insensitive and transphobic af....#dont get me wrong....sanjis a fucking misogynist lmao....less so in the la...still there tho #god bless him...thinks hes just chilvalrous #anyway no notes on luffy he is literally perfect can do no wrong precious baby #if anything hes not as objectively stupid lol but like they only had 8 eps..you really can only squeeze in the most important shit #anyway i am screaming...dennis o'hare NEEDS to play eric the whirlwind if they utilise that shit #anywya thats my rambling for today lol

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angorwhosebabyisthis · 3 months

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i think one of the things that upsets me the most about velma and shaggy's relationship in sdmi--and boy there is a lot--is that not only is her constantly ''correcting'' him for minor, harmless, and usually completely reasonable things with physical and emotional abuse, well. abusive by itself. but so many of the things he does that she treats him that way over are very autistic things, and what she subjects him to is textbook abuse aimed at autistics in particular. (including the part where she gets more and more pissed whenever attempts at said emotional abuse fly over his head, because he's too bad at picking up cues for them to land fully.)

[cws: anti-autistic ableism, ABA, self-harm, physical and emotional IPV, victim-blaming, and abuse apologism. it's a lot and it's really fucking bad lmao]

like. there's a lot of examples there; shaggy's behavior coming across as autistic is worth a whole post of its own, and a lot of media depicts abuse targeted at autistic traits because ✨️hooray ableism.✨️but she straight up tries to Fix Him (read: force him to perform a Presentable Personality) by forcing him to wear clothes that are sensory hell, and trying to condition him to self-harm every time he does some small harmless, reflexive thing she thinks is Poor Socialization until he stops. and to catch himself doing it, and punish himself, without being prompted. i cannot fucking overstate how fucked up that is.

they even got down the fun little aspect of ABA where the methods of conditioning-through-pain are presented as toys and kiddish things: she gives him a rubber band to wear on his wrist, and tells him to snap it as hard as he can every time he says 'like.' 🙃🙃🙃🙃

like. this does not begin to scratch the surface of the abuse she puts him through in general. and again, characters being abused for autistic traits with the approval of the narrative is a common thing in media, which sucks. but holy fucking shit! they really took the 'violent ableism that is done to autistics irl' to the next fucking level here!

.......and it's portrayed as kind of cringey, immature teen drama on both sides. the self-harm, his dread over how much he knows it'll hurt, and the extreme pain it causes him to the point of screaming are all supposed to be funny. and her arc is all about learning to accept that she deserves better, because she was repressed and had low self-esteem and therefore putting him through fucking DIY ABA didn't make her happy.

🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃

anyway if you couldn't tell i can't fucking stand sdmi velma and i have a lot of words in me about it. when one of your main heroes would have made a way more compelling villain as they are, on a more mundane level compared to all the wild fantastical shit they go up against, holy shit go back to the drawing board you have fucked up. she could have been genuinely good representation of a marginalized person dealing with the trauma of her experiences in some shitty ways she has to grow past, and an interesting flawed character, without being absolutely despicable--hell, she'd have made a great foil to pericles if they'd handled him decently too. they have a lot of parallels, which only gain more depth when you add their respective parallels with cassidy into the mix. and it really fucking sucks that we got this instead.

#sdmi #scooby doo mystery incorporated #velma dinkley #shaggy rogers #SDMItag #cws in post #sdmi velma lies at the intersection of A Lot of Hard Feelings for me; in ways both inherent and personal #so she is viscerally upsetting to me in a lot of ways mostly re: framing; and that makes it difficult to analyze her in a sympathetic light #even though i recognize she is very much a depiction of a hurting; traumatized person lashing out in nasty and interesting ways #but the older i get and the more perspective i gain; and the more i unpack and understand about my own experiences #the more important it feels to me to talk about this stuff #i still want to try writing fic sometime about newniverse velma and how she ends up being a non-abusive; less shitty person #without just *being* a completely different person who's All Nice Sweet Sunshine with No Hard Feelings About What She's Been Through #and about the confusion and grief newniverse marcie goes through when one day her loving girlfriend is gone #and in her place is someone who is so much like her and has clearly been through a lot; but is Different in ways that hurt more and more #that marcie keeps trying to justify and make excuses for; and sits in the pot and slowly boils #until she finally has to face that this isn't the girl she fell in love with; that that girl will never come back; that this is velma now #i'm totally not working through anything here lmao #and a nasty; pretentious; controlling; insecure young adult who's up their own ass about Being Super Intellectual and Telling It Like Is #abusing a teenager to make them stop saying 'like' because it's Annoying and What Stupid People Say and Not Gramatically Correct(tm)(tm)(tm #definitely does not hit dead on some very specific 'hi that scarred me for life and i don't think it's particularly fucking funny' buttons!#anyway. protect shaggy and marcie and daphne while we're at it #SDMIcrit tag #the crit files

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