#but jiang cheng would have to WANT to

[whetstonefires]

Underrated element of where Jiang Cheng is re: wwx after everything is that they always had a sort of dual relationship. Two different relationship premises, superimposed on one another.

There's the one where they grew up together, as close as brothers, beating each other up and complaining and being one another's closest companions, sharing a bedroom as kids and eating at the same family dinner table, actively encouraged by Jiang Fengmian to interact as equals.

And then there's the one where Wei Wuxian was in service to Jiang Cheng's family. Not as a servant--Jiang Fengmian absolutely refused to do that, even if he couldn't adopt him. But as a disciple of Jiang Cheng's father and recipient of his charity, as Jiang Cheng's future right hand and most trusted subordinate.

It's a vertical relationship, intimate in its own way but with very strict expectations about what obligations flow in what directions; they are not identical and reciprocal as between friends and equals.

(It's my opinion that Jiang Fengmian's core deal was a deep-seated discontent with the hierarchies he was at the top of, without access to any way to actually deconstruct them or even coherently articulate his opposition. Wei Changze was his dear friend, and no one thinks that's a good enough reason for him to treat Wei Changze's son like his own, because Wei Changze was also his servant, and you can't make that circle square. That's not a way you're allowed to love.)

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian were like brothers; Wei Wuxian served Jiang Cheng.

The personal relationship was always the most important one. To them, in their hearts. But it was the other one that was real, that had weight in the world.

And it's important to understand that neither can be held up as more factual than the other, even though they conflict. Both relationships existed, and had power.

So then when Jiang Cheng chose to hate Wei Wuxian and articulate his grudge against him, he chose to do it in the language of fealty. Because as far as he knew, his case there was secure, watertight, and it wouldn't expose him emotionally or politically.

And those are the terms in which he's been condemning him all this time: for abandoning the Sect, for ingratitude, for lack of loyalty.

For fuckups, too, and poor judgment, but some of that now turns out to have been justified and some of it was mostly the fault of enemies behaving badly, or even Jiang Cheng himself allowing himself to be pushed into making unworthy choices.

And it was all for his sake.

The thing, the thing in my opinion, about what Wei Wuxian did, about the core transfer and his silent self-destruction around keeping it secret, is that that is a hideous thing to have done between two people who love each other, as an act of love. Beautiful, but awful. As the man who was like a brother to him, Jiang Cheng has a great deal of standing to object to it.

But as an act of vassalage, it's basically perfect.

If Wei Wuxian were only what he formally was to Jiang Cheng, if he is interpreted through a lens of fealty and obligation, he did exactly what he should have done, and went beyond what duty actually required. And went to his death silently, allowing himself to be judged, taking all the burden on himself rather than let harm come to his lord.

Like, obviously Jiang Cheng was harmed by the part where Jin Zixuan got manslaughtered and Jiang Yanli walked into the line of fire in situations where Wei Wuxian was resorting to violence and probably shouldn't have, but those are one step removed from the core issue. In terms of Wei Wuxian's intentional choices around Jiang Cheng himself, at the times he was feeling betrayed and abandoned Wei Wuxian was in fact being impossibly, poetically loyal, an absolute cliche about it.

But only in terms of the hierarchical form of their relationship.

Which means that even though Jiang Cheng has a lot of reasons to still be mad at Wei Wuxian, his actual complaints that he's centered for thirteen years are basically wiped out by the revelation of Wei Wuxian's sacrifice.

Wei Wuxian was in fact doing the tragic hero loyal vassal thing, which very much includes being misunderstood and slandered by the world. (Chenqing as a name choice absolutely references this expectation, and the idea that Jiang Cheng specifically will never understand that Wei Wuxian was trying to help him first and foremost all along; he is not subtle.)

The debts Jiang Cheng has been spitefully calling in and considering defaulted were already long paid.

So if at this point Jiang Cheng keeps pursuing that same line of rhetorical attack, now that he knows, he'll be putting himself morally in the wrong, and he knows it. But if he pivots to something else, he'll both be signalling the shape of that secret to the entire world and looking like a prize idiot.

Which is already how he feels.

To actually address the remaining grievances between them, which are considerable, would require releasing those safe, open grudges to Wei Wuxian's face and then reclaiming him as a loved one. Which is, one could fairly say, more than anyone could expect.

Which is why Wei Wuxian told him he didn't have to.

Which leaves Jiang Cheng at something of an impasse.

#hoc est meum #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #mdzs #meta #their vertical relationship was always the secure one #the one they could put into words #the one Jiang Cheng could COUNT on #and it's gone and it's what destroyed everything between them #the other relationship could be salvaged in some form #but jiang cheng would have to WANT to #and ofc he does but does he want it enough to choose to? #when wei wuxian isn't choosing him? #and ofc wwx doesn't feel jiang cheng is his to choose #the timing of the revelation is so ironic because imo #wwx spends a lot of the book processing his grief for himself #and the life he had before #and his relationship with jiang cheng #and he let it go and accepted he could never have it back after the debacle at Lotus Pier #only for jiang cheng to be forced to reexamine everything basically immediately lmao #but like wwx is not in a place where he can meet you halfway anymore jiang wanyin #he JUST got closure #it's too soon to go cutting open scars on a man who never lets himself grieve if he can help it #because if you grieve you stop and when you stop you die

[tbgkaru-woh]

The new generation leaders

#mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #jiang cheng #jin zixuan #nie huaisang #mo dao zu shi #the untamed #my art #i redesigned them a bit again what gives!! #i always said i wasn't too fond of my jzx and nhs but i think i like these versions! #i really like nhs with shorter hair or hairdos #and jzx with straighter hair and these kind of jewleries look both rich but also humble which is exactly what i wanted to hit #jiang cheng would pop out more in full body ver but he's always kinda same-ish he just works #messy yllz wwx is the goat and i will not have him any other way thank you #also lwj being as simple and elegant and flowy as possible...yes please

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Lan Wangji Goes To Lotus Pier AU: Part 1: Dread on Arrival

(Part 2)

#poorly drawn mdzs #mdzs #lan wangji #jiang fengmian #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #Yungmeng Jiang Training Arc AU #MDZS AU #The AU name for this idea is something I am 100% willing to change if someone has a better one. #There will be at least 2-3 more comics so *please*. Ideas and feedback welcome. #The core idea behind this AU is that LWJ goes to study with the Yunmeng Jiang sect instead of JC and WWX going to Cloud Recess #But why? Well I imagine Lan Xichen set it up to give LWJ a challenge (more social than skill based) and LWJ rose to it (begrudgingly) #Sort of a 'You've mastered so many Lan techniques but Other Sects have styles that are worth learning.' set up. #Lan Qiren agrees mostly on the basis that...well it's LWJ. Yunmeng Jiang is unruly but LWJ is beyond that riff-raff. He'll rise above it. #This is the story of a boy who thrives on routine and rules spending time in a place that is his apparent antithesis. #Also it is so warm there. He is used to it being cold and what do you MEAN just take off some of my layers? #I just want to see him struggle and flail in many situations. And get him in Jiang Purple. Is that so wrong of me? #(Soaking wet JC is part of my 'JC was born to swim; forced to hold a sword' agenda. Do not remove him from the water) #((Politeness notes: JFM would *not* call LWJ 'lan wangji' nor would LWJ be vocally impolite to a sect leader.))

[barawrah]

i think they should sit together and drink tea . maybe the grief of not saying goodbye to your most important person before they died will ebb away a little bit

#i think . i would have liked to see the differences in how they express their rage show more throughout the novel #there is very little about nhs in general . and jc is angry but who is he angry At . u know #griefrage and ragegrief . and mourning the world and so on #they make me emotional because theyre the same but so different but the same still #and all they really wanted was their brothers #and then you have . headshaker doesnt know anything and mindlessly angry man who will hunt innocents down #and i think they would look at each other and see . and it would be a little cathartic #art tag #mdzs #nie huaisang #jiang cheng #sangcheng #if u want . i dont care

[lazycranberrydoodles]

its prosecutor jiang wanyin!!!! oh fuck!!! / gifs + au rambling below the cut / follow for more mdzs x aa crossover stuff :3

all the gifs i made (poses traced off franziska):

hes so similar to franziska when you think about it. theyre both deeply insecure tsundere adoptive younger sibling of successful main characters. who carry whips. something something edgeworth choosing death and wwx actually dying also

his share code is HWFEFF if you wanna use him in a trial! you can't share backgrounds but heres the scenery from the donghua i used.

the easiest way to put custom stuff into objection.lol is to send it in discord and then use the link from opening it in your browser :)

a whole lot of AU stuff

the art im making is for if mdzs was an ace attorney game, playing from WWX's POV to solve various mysteries/cases over the course of the plot. so this scene would be from turnabout goddess, which would loosely cover the dafan mountain mystery.

cases include:

Turnabout Revenge (Mo Manor, quick introductory first case)

Turnabout Goddess (Dafan mountain, the good times flashback)

Turnabout Saber (the man-eating castle (omg hiii nhs))

The Blind Turnabout (Yi City arc)

Turnabout Deviation (the Koi Tower conference, Empathy on NMJ ala turnabout memories or beginnings. opening cutscene is his qi deviation)

The Blood-Soaked Turnabout (second Burial Mounds siege, flashbacks: Xuanwu, Sunshot, YLLZ, Nightless City massacre)

Turnabout Lotus Seeds (testimony about JGY, tree scene, golden core reveal, bathtub scene. opening cutscene could be JGS' death but that would make it canon rather than ambiguous)

Turnabout Confession (Guanyin temple)

the problem with splitting novel!mdzs into turnabouts is that flashbacks are a huge chunk of the book but they don't have mysteries/ cases to solve so they've gotta be lumped together with present day stuff. imo? many of the flashbacks would likely have to be abridged so they could be retold ala DL-6, SL-9, or the fourth grade incident, where characters talk about it over some pieces of art. this is really difficult when theres a metric ton of unspoken, complex, and signifcant history between every character lmao

there's not as much of a problem with the cql timeline but i have not finished it. so.

the opening cutscenes in ace attorney always show the murder and/or the murderer plotting. the first cutscene of the game would be MXY summoning WWX, muttering about getting revenge on his family (it would also be good for him to mention the yllz being dead because that's how the novel starts.) cut to WWX's POV as he wakes up covered in blood and the investigation segment begins.

for investigations of monsters (goddess, saber, etc) the cutscene would be a scene of some poor throwaway cultivator getting their shit wrecked.

it would be cool to make a breakdown for JGY but again I need to review that scene cause I don't know who I'd base him on. maybe Vasquez or Dahlia.

tell me your thoughts!! i'm working off of a mdzs summary/ skimming the novel because i don't remember it too well so if i get anything wrong please yell at me

Jin Ling's sprites & Nie Huaisang's sprites / masterpost

#PLEAAAASE send it to me if you do actually use my animations in a case🥺 #here im adapting mdzs to aa gameplay rather than making a mdzs AU where they are lawyers #so jiang cheng is not a prosecutor in this hes just angry. and on the right side of the screen #that man has not graduated law school but then again no one in ace attorney has either #the names are based off of how ace attorney cases are either named after a distinctive item/location (bigtop bridge samurai etc) #or the main emotional/character type thing that happens (goodbyes reminiscence farewell) #the mdzs/aa au where the stories get blended (ie my tags on the nhs post) is very interesting but i would have to think about it very hard #and i dont want to . i would rather think about what the court record would look like (its full of severed limbs) #MDZS' EXPLORATIONS OF MORALITY MAKE ME CHEW ON ROCKS #urrgh i got carried away writing this post & wrote a couple hundred words comparing aa and mdzs' attitudes towards morality & public opinio #i could write an essay on this topic tbh. #can i call this an au? its the same story in the same universe just in a different format. hmm #mdzs #aa #art #mo dao zu shi #ace attorney #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #cql #the untamed #jiang cheng #jin ling #objection.lol #flashing image tw #pixel art #animation #my art #franziska von karma #i guess?? #mdzs aa au

[wojtekaneko]

It was his brother's idea.

#jc is not mad hes just embarrassed #also he can be ace or aro or both for me #but visually hes literally a walking ace flag #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #wei wuxian #wei ying #mdzs fanart #aroace jc is so important to me you dont even know #i think its interesting when a character that has a responsibility to have a child and cant do so without forcing himself #like yes hes already shouldering a lot of responsibilities left by his parents #but also because of his parents i doubt he would want to be in an arranged marrige #so hes always looking for 'a perfect match' he could have a fullfiling and real relationship with #only for it not being possible for him in a first place #...sorry for so many tags i had thoughts #my stuff

[mdzs-is-rotting-my-brain]

So.

I was on MDZS subReddit.

(yes, my fault I know)

Someone had posted the question that Jin Guangyao had played the Song of Tormoil on Qiongqi Road 2.0 and that made Wen Ning "Beserk" and that's what led to the death of Jin Zixuan. That wasn't in the books and wondered why it was left out.

A few ppl alerted them to the fact that the Untamed had made up a plot out of whole cloth and to not watch/take take it as canon.

But then a few other ppl felt the need to comment saying it was Wei Wuxian's arrogance that led to his downfall. And that he had "lessons" he had to learn in his second life.

Admittedly it's been a hot minute since I read the book, but I do recall Wei Wuxian as being distinctly not arrogant, and that he was proved right at the end of the novel. So I'm wondering where this idea that Wei Wuxian was arrogant came from and why it's so pervasive among the fandom when so many people read the books?

(I'm not fighting with people one reddit. Let my comments get down voted into oblivion. Internet votes are more useless that wet toilet paper)

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #wangxian #wei wuxian #lan wangji #the untamed #wei ying #lan zhan #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #i have questions #is this a thing that jiang cheng and jin Guangyao stans have made up? #it FEELS like something they would have done #blame wei wuxian for what their favs are guilty of #like #someone help me #i want to know the answers to #this.

[yunmeng-jiang]

that man does NOT think of wei wuxian as his gege

#jiang cheng #wwx #twin prides #i have a whole post about how they both think of themselves as having an older-sibling role #but even if that wasn't true jc still always calls him by his full name and the one time wwx tried to call him shidi jc yelled at him #their relationship is not that simple! it's a huge thing that wwx occupies a weird in-between role in their family! #he's definitely not a servant but also definitely not a full member of their family and that's super important to the story! #even if jc WANTED to think of him as his older brother he would need to get past seven layers of trauma to even realize he wanted that #and then he would have to admit it to himself and then work up the courage to admit it to someone else #and even then he probably still wouldn't say it to wwx's face #sure yanli calls wwx her didi but things are much simpler from her point of view #plus she's one of those people - like lxc - that can hold an opinion deep inside herself and be at peace with it even if it conflicts + #+ with what the world says and what she's been brought up to believe #jc is not like that. he internalizes way more from the outside world and if he feels conflicted he just kind of implodes #he's spent his whole life being told that wwx is not his equal and is someone to compete against #and also secretly believing that wwx is eventually going to abandon him because he doesn't think anyone truly cares for him #plus wwx treats him like a bff who is also a liege lord rather than a beloved younger brother #he would Not form a secure attachment to wwx lmao #it also really annoys me that when people write/conceptualize him as someone who thinks of wwx as his real gege + #+ they tend to completely erase jyl and minimize her importance to jc. he HAS an older sibling who he trusts unconditionally and confides + #+ in and takes comfort from! that person already exists! and they ignore her in favor of the protagonist #it also really bugs me when they have him mourning wwx those whole 13-16 years but don't put in a single word about yanli #this kind of turned into a rant about jyl... i have a lot of feelings about her especially since i'm the oldest sibling in my family #anyway. that man does not think of wwx as his gege #haterade #(kind of)

[add1ctedt0you]

Underappreciated how much worse is for jc that he couldn't kill wwx

#He couldn't kill him or save him. He can't hate him or forgive him #IT'S WORSE #'jiejie jiejie sorry. I couldn't kill your husband' s murder. a-ling sorry. I couldn't kill your father's murder' #THE REGRET #'if I took action before maybe jiejie and her husband would be still alive and jl would have an happy family...' #DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT??? #mar!nonsense #It's about what you think you should do/what others think you should do/what you want to do/not knowing what's right and what's wrong #Most black/white takes I see downplay mdzs's characters grief and tragedy imo #jiang cheng #mdzs #Also. I've seen people liking the takes that jc killed wwx because they want wwx bitter and resentful. Girl. HE'S bitter and resentful #He's just repressing everything. He's such an unreliable narrator #to each his own obv

[lilnasxvevo]

A fic that looks like it’s about to be a Wangxian kid fic because WWX is seriously considering adopting A-Yuan because all of A-Yuan’s living relatives are too old or too sick to take care of him except for Wen Qing, who is an ER doctor and just simply does not have the time to do that and be a single parent of a little kid, so maybe, because A-Yuan loves you so much, Wei Ying, you could adopt him, and then what’s left of his birth family could still stay in his life…

But HERE COMES JIANG WANYIN WITH A STEEL CHAIR and a “We could get fake married and I could help you take care of A-Yuan, it’s not fair that you should have to give up your nephew just because this country has so few accommodations for single parents, I’m really good with kids (probably) I’ve always wanted to be a parent (kinda) and it’ll be a totally 100% platonic marriage because I’m DEFINITELY not secretly in love with you” and then the rest of the fic is chengqing fake relationship AU

#let us be honest it would take WQ an astonishingly brief amount of time to be like ‘hey after the kid falls asleep do you want to #have sex. as platonic friends’ #I’m thinking less than a week before that happens and I’m being generous #as she now shares a bedroom AND BED with the hottest man she’s ever met and like #she’s trying very hard to not fuck this up by falling in love with him so. sex? sex will keep her from falling in love with him #she is pretty sure of this!! #meanwhile Jiang Cheng has maybe never in his life had sex with someone without falling in love with them AND he’s ALREADY in love with WQ #but what the fuck is he going to do—say NO??? #say NO when the gorgeous woman he’s in love with and technically married to propositions him? #just say NO and continue to share a bed with her in awkward silence???? #listen. Jiang Cheng is a very principled man but he has his motherfucking limits

[spriteofmushrooms]

Can you imagine how annoying it is for Wei Wuxian, strongest cultivator of his time (when using modao and/or guidao), to hear people say that cringe Jiang Cheng killed him?

#pallas.rtf #mdzs #i imagine he eventually goes to lotus pier and demands!!!!! a rematch. IN public. i'll kill myself in front of you again and then you'll CRY #and everyone will see you're a BIG LOSER CRYBABY WHO COULD NEVER KILL ME IF I DIDN'T WANT TO DIE!!! #and jiang cheng. who was raised with this energy. is just like you'll only kill yourself if i don't kill or incapacitate you first #rules: no one who wants to have sex with you can interfere. #wwx like ohoho so i can still have wen ning huh 😏 #and jc just looks at him for a long time and then says. No. #wwx like WAIT THAT'S NO FAIR BECAUSE THAT RULE ONLY APPLIES TO ME!!! since you're unfuckable and no one would ever marry you 😏😏😏😏😏 #at which point they give up the formal fight and just wrestle each other into the lake and try to drown each other #just like old times 🥰

[hannigramislife]

Oh gods, I need to bathe in holy water. I just read a "wei wuxian and jiang cheng reconciliation" that was basiclally let's make jiang cheng act out of character then bash him into apologizing for shit that wasn't his fault while babying wei wuxian, all while also making jin ling take wei wuxian's side.

I legitimately want to scream.

#the untamed #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #jin ling #andkandsojd #the tags were so misleading #i wanted to tear my hair out #if i were jc in any point in time #y'all would think canon jc *soft* #because these ppl have nthg but the audacity

[waitineedaname]

I have finally gotten myself together, and written the beginnings of my fake political marriage chengqing fix-it!

an excerpt from the first part:

Jiang Cheng was embarrassed to admit that this particular solution had occurred to him frequently after their last parting, when he was kept awake wondering about her safety. It wasn’t the most elegant solution, and definitely not his preferred solution, and it would easily create more problems than it solved, but… “What if we were engaged?” “Jiang Cheng, have you gone insane?” Wei Wuxian said, which was really rich coming from him of all people. Wen Qing looked like she agreed with him and this pained her.

and from the second:

“Jiang-zongzhu, I appreciate everything you are doing for me and my family,” Wen Qing folded her hands on her lap and stared him down imperiously, “But I have no intention of having sex with you.” Jiang Cheng wondered if the stress of the last week had finally pushed him over the edge and this was a hallucination caused by qi deviation. “I didn’t expect you to!”

#the untamed #mdzs #jiang cheng #wen qing #chengqing #wei wuxian #jgs is also there but I don't want to tag him #my writing #i am furthering my aro4aro married chengqing agenda!!!! #they will eventually be in a qpr but they haven't gotten there yet #this au has occupied. so much of my brain lately. so I'm very excited to post it! #it's really hard writing from this point in the story #bc both wwx and wq are not at their best and therefore aren't acting how they would usually #i'm excited to explore more of this au #both bad things (jc is now in close proximity to the people who did non-con surgery on him im sure this won't have any consequences) #and good things (wen yuan gets to grow up among jiang disciples and jin ling!)

[demonicfarmer69]

Q: Does Jiujiu ever talk to JL about his maternal grandparents? 

🍋: he speaks of them with respect. but if my jiujiu raised me like my grandparents did, i....

#yea they fought a lot and even put me in between of their shouting matches #frequently which was an uncomfortable position to be in but they're my parents and i respect them a lot #listen the jiang parents are a whole can of mixed beans and ppl have many opinions on them ranging from positive to negative. #but imo jc would be the type of person to be like #regardless of whatever lvl of damage the jiang parents did to him. + #its jl so theres no way he would want to damage the image of his own parents in front of his own nephew #jl growing up under his jiujiu and seeing how strict but lenient jc is with him would find the parenting methods of the jiang parents as ... #jc is a mini yzy becaus he nags at jl like yzy did to jc YES but the difference is #jl is not hurt from it and still sees jc as a beacon of protection someone he can go to if hes hurt (biggest example is the boat scene.) #the best way i can summarise jc and jl's relationship is that jc is the eldest sister turned parent who has full responsibility over their y #does not have the same authority over the younger sib the same way a parent does #jc has influence over jl and jl respects jc but jc will never be able to have full authority over jl because jc is simply just his guardian/ #Adult Figure in his life #<- this rant is a yr old but i still agree w/ these points heh #jiang cheng #jin ling #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jims2kevent

[tvxcue]

hm. thinking abt wwx finding out abt the Thing between chengqing but only post resurrection. like. what did he do to them. wen qing being the only one who truly knew what was tying them all together.................she literally couldn't even look at jiang cheng the first time she sees him after.

#it has the potential to devastate him. bc he can brush off the core transfer if it was smth he and wen qing did to jiang cheng #smth he owed him and smth that brought him and wen qing together; smth he owed her. like wwx as the fulcrum between wq and jc. #but when it stops being that........he asked wen qing to put her hands inside the man that loved her............... #he asked her to give jc something he never wanted. something he would never have asked for. #wwx telling jc to forget abt it to keep it in the past............ #i think it has the potential to ruin him in a similar way to finding out why jc lost his core. #speaking #mdzs/cql is abt trios. is the most important part of this. #chengqing #wei wuxian #wen qing #mdzs

[haru-with-mdzs]

Reblog this post and state your favourite mdzs character + reasons in the tags

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #grandmaster of demonic cultivation #for me #it's obviously jiang cheng #i love the depth he has to his character #jiang cheng who was fucking mad at wei wuxian because wei wuxian didn't want to share his problems with him #jiang cheng who was the youngest in the family with absolutely no experience with children raising jin ling #jiang cheng who was barely twenty when he rebuilt lotus pier #jiang cheng who really lived up to his parents' expectations in the end #i just love him so much #i get that some people don't like him because he wasn't willing to help the wens #he's a sect leader with responsibilities #he would have supported his brother if he wasn't one #he's my comfort character and everytime i read book 5 where he breaks down in guanyin temple i just cry so much #will be adding more in the future because this is about jiang cheng and this much isn't enough