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aspiestvmusings · 3 years

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My wildest WandaVision Theory

SPOILERS for WandaVision..thoughout season 1 + several MCU films

This is the wildes theory I have had, I think. And I am 99% ertain this cannot be correct. But then again, I expect some surprise twists, so...

In this theory I focus on some things/details/facts from the MCU (and coming films) & some comics details & ignore others. And even though they like to use the comics as the building blocks for their films & shows, they do also change things up, so I do not expect them to follow the “comics canon” hence I’m prepared for surprises:

What we know of the MCU:

Infinity War events takes place in 2018. Wanda & Vision have had a secret relationship for two years by this time. And though many are wondering “when did he/they buy the property & how does that fit into all of their story”, I personally found that those “flashback” memory scenes filled the missing pieces from the puzzle grom past films. And it fits perfectly. With the “what if I don’t go back” scene, etc. I suspect that Vision bought that plot before the events of Infinity War. And Wanda was given the envelope along with other of his belongings after she returned from the Blip. The “love persevering” scene showed us how they connected & fell in love...while watching TV (he learned to be human also through the sitcoms & though her & she learned to not be so afraid of her “weirdness” thanks to him).

Wanda had to kill Vision in 2018, then see Thanos reverse time & bring back Vision only to kill him again...”for good”. Then she got Snapped (dusted).

When she returned “10 seconds later” she learned that 5 years had passed, and it was 2023. She didn’t find Vision next to her. But she had no time to process the Snap, Blip & losing Vision, because she was immediately thrown into the Endgame fight. (where she almost killed Thanos...until Tony used the ultimate “misdirection” trick and helped them defeat Thanos & his army for good.) Then shortly after she went to Tony’s funeral, where she had that lakeside talk with Hawkeye about those they lost (I still say that they were talking about Nat & Vision, because those are the losses that affected them the deepest personally, cause they were the closest to them)

Then a few days/weeks after that (just a few weeks after the Blip/she returned), and after she had been caught up on the 5 years she missed, and she was given his belongings, she went to SWORD to get him back/so that she could bury him (give him a goodbye ceremony). Then she created the hex out of her grief, when she was denied a proper goodbye to her soulmate (that whole things was, no doubt, a show put on by Hayward...that was made obvious in ep 8: and I’m still unsure about the colours: The “just died” Vision in IW turned basically gray, the “taken into parts” Vision on the disply tables was almost normal tone purple”, & the “brought back online” White Vision a week later was all white...with a “Tony’s triangle-shaped arc reactor element” instead of the Mind Stone in his head. The colours & small timeframe confuse me a bit).

Then she has been living in this “fantasy reality” for the past week or so...in real-world-time. Everything we’ve seen in WV has happened during a week or so in real world time. And for her everything from Scotland to WestView has happened in less than a month.

While creating the hex (from her red magic), she also created a Vision 2.0 (we have now been explained that she can create things “out of nothing”, not just transform them as Jimmy-Darcy-Monica suspected) from her “yellow magic” I might be wrong, but I think the IW blast (and possibly the Sokovia experiment blast) not only awakened & heightened the superpowers in her, but that she was also blasted with the energy of the Mind Stone...the same one that gave vision life originally. So that mindstone energy has been “inside her” ever since & she “transformed it” into the new Vision. The Vision from her memories. and I think that just like her kids, Vision is “real” (how else can Hayward track the vibranium decay signature)...aka she created both Vibranium, and possibly a new Mind Stone even (though it is possibly he is powered by her magic alone & the stone is just accessory), but this Vision in this form cannot survive outside the hex.

We know that they brought up (via Darcy & Visions talk) that Vision is a mixture of many things. Part Jarvis. Part Ultron. Part Mind Stone. Part Tony & Bruce, and not only... We know that Vision has evolved thoughout his existance. And he wants to be/do good, and wants to be more human. But this Vision does not remember anything prior the hex because he was “rebooted”, so he does not have real memories of their time prior this really. And while he acts like her Vision, the hex Vision is not her old Vision either, really. Just one part of what made him him, and that made them connect.

We know that Shuri was able to download some of Vision’s conciousness/memories & would have been able to remove the Time Stone and still have had him live..if she’d had more time.

We know that Hayward has had Vision’s body (physical form) for a while, and he’s been trying to bring him back to life...for the purpose of using him as weapon against “threats”. We saw that thanks to getting access to Wanda’s magic powers he was able to bring his re-assambled White Vision (colourless, soulless, empty shell...without a soul) back online...to life. What I want to know from finale is how did SWORD got hold of The Visions body & what is that “iron man” arch reactor (triangle) in his forehead? Cause they have changed the design, a bit.

Why wasn’t he still in Wakanda (the vibranium he's made of belongs to them), or with Avengers (Tony was gone when he died, but he returned 3 months later & though the team has been busy lately, why was it not with them? I guess V. was transported there sometime during first two years after Snap, when Maria was still running SWORD, cause Tony/Avengers kinda trusted her. And he stayed there even after... Tony was one of the few who saw Vision as “human”, he was kind of one of his “kids”, so I think this is one of the reasons he didn’t want to hold onto the body himself. But he also understood that Vision had evolved, and that Wanda was the his “next of kin”, not him, so he was holding onto the body until she returned, cause I think he was sure/had hope they’d undo the snap. And I guess he trusted Sword/Maria, because he “trusted” Fury, hence he probably decided to let them hold onto the body. Unless Hayward used tricks to get a hold of it once he took over, since Avengers/others were probably focused on “Thanos”, so no time to deal with government baddies. Also, maybe based on the Sokovia accords the vibranium in Vision’s body belongs to the government, not Tony, hence he let them keep the shell? Cause based in Haywards comments they've had the body longer than past weeks... after Tony died. )

And we can be 100% certain that in the Finale the two Visions will fight each other. [sidenote: Paul Bettany is the best! I love his “inside joke” of getting to act with an actor he’s always wanted to have a scene with...himself...as Two different versions of Vision. It’s the best!] The questions remain: will both die...from Wanda’s hands and/or due to the hex collapsing? Will one die (hex-vision) leaving us with just the empty body without the soul (until in some future film they are able to unite the two). Or will they both kinda surive aka will they merge into one, and we will get our old Vision kinda back already?

I am also almost certain that White Vision in WV finale will be voiced by the same man, who voiced Ultron...that would be such a “shock” to hear. (only RDJ being the voice would be as worthy of an inside joke...cause originaly Paul voiced his/Tony’s AI, Jarvis & now he’d voice Paul’s/Vision’s AI...so opposite, but not as “shocking”)

I do not think both the Twins & Vision will survive. I doubt they’ll give Wanda a happy ending... like the sircoms she watched as a kid. So one has to “die”. Since they made it a big deal to show the twins manifest their powers...at age 10 (10 = X), just like their mom, Wanda did first...at age 10 (X = X gene), and there will definitely be X-men & mutants in the future of MCU, I don’t think they'd get rid of the kids after laying the groundwork (Billy & Tommy will definitely get access to their powers & help mom & dad fight the bad guys), so I’m leaning towards the kids surviving. Because she did not just create them, she gave birth to them, so I’d say they can/will survive outside the hex. As Monica put it: Wanda’s kids are real. And even if the sitcom reality looks fake, everything there is real (as real as possible...she actually created the materials & all)

One possible happy, but sad ending would be that both survive: Twins, who stay with her & Vision, who will not be her Vision anymore, but the empty shell. And since she “can’t feel him” in the new form anymore, that’s the sad part. That even though he, too, survives, he’s not hers anymore.

But there is another possibility...that the Twins won’t make it (and they’ll be reborn somehere later... or Wanda doesn’t know they survived, and re-united with their parents...just like in Parent Trap...). But Vision will survive..either as his old self or as just a shell. And that’s the unhappy ending... she gets Vision back, but not her Vision, not The Vision. And she has to help him evolve... it’ll take time for him to “have emotions”. But the twist will be that Wanda was and is pregnant IRL actually.

I am basing this on the timeline we have.

Because the events of WandaVision take place in 2023 (sometime in summer-autumn) & Spiderman 2: Far From Home takes place 8 months after the Blip & 7-8 months after WandaVision. Now...since it’s literally been just a few weeks since Infinity War for Wanda....what if she is actually pregnant? What if she was prior to the Snap? That would make her story here even more heartbreaking - sad, but also happy. Cause based on FFH we know the world is slowly healing from the events, but it’s not in full chaos, so there has to be a “pause” between now & then. Otherwise...Peter/SpiderMan would probably have been more sure about multiverse & there would be more chaos or something than we see in FFH?

And... the events of Spiderman 3 & Dr. Strange 2 will most likely take place right after FFH, so about 8 months from now, and we saw how everything “glitched” when she was giving birth inside the hex. So what if all hell breaks free when she does that in real reality then? And that’s what sets the multiverse events rolling in the upcoming films? Cause why is it happening 8+ months from the Blip/WV/now, not right away. It seems that she won’t be ripping open the multiverse just yet. If she were, wouldn’t Peter/Spiderman have had inside info of it being certain [he seems to not be in FFH, when he talks to the Fake Mysterio] Why will it happen only about 8 months from now? What’s the delay?

I know...crazy wild theory. But I’m just trying to look at the timeline here. Cause either she’ll just spend the next months recovering and/or practicing her new-found skills (her mom did not teach Agatha, but Dr. Strange will guide Wanda on her journey to learn to understand & use & control her powerful abilities) and hence the “calm before the storm” time. Or there’s another reason. And the timeline would fit. Though it could be 8 months simply because the FFH events had to take place during summr vacation... But the kinda calm state of the universe & the specific 8 months “timejump” in FFH makes me suspicious.

FFH also tells us that to the knowledge of general public the fallen Avengers include Tony, Nat, and Vision. But also Cap. So... either Old Cap dies soon of old age/somehow OR the informtion released to the public is not completely accurate. If it’s the first, then Vision cannot make it alive from WV (but could be resurrected at some future time, cause Wanda can create the soul, SWORD has the original body, and Shuri has some of his old database, so...) If it’s the latter then either it’s not the same Vision anymore, but a different one or they’ll just keep him a secret so that other Hayward’s won’t come after him to use him as a weapon. Until the show started I presumed that Vision is gone, for certain.

But...he’s not a regualar human, he’s part machine, so he is one of those characters they can bring back...even if in a different form. (question is: will they & would they.. would Wanda/Avengers do that...if it goes against The Visions living will? They could & would, I think..if the fate of the universe depended on it..if they needed him on their team)

Because...as they said in WV...it’s all for/because of the children...

And I know... he is a synthezoid (essentially a robot/machine). But... that’s the thing. In this magical universe the laws of our regular world don’t seem to appy (or rather: tech is so advanced it seems like magic?) at times. The thing is...he is not juyst a robot, an android. He is part machine, part human. And weve seen he’s evolved...beound what “parents” (Tony & co) thought was possible & what Vision himself thought was possible. He got distracted during a missio, because he developed feelings (at age 2 years or so). He’s been shown to be able to feel, cry (produce tears). So..who knows... maybe he can also procreate... with the help of Wandas magic (who can make anything she wants happen...). Even though logic tells me it’s not possible, and his tears etc are synthetic, and he’s kind of a different species...then I’ve decided that the laws of the world as I know don’t have to apply exactly...in this world.

I mean...the MCU has a character whose mother is a human woman & father is a planet (in human form). Hence I’ve accepted that what I know to be impossible could be possible in this MCU fantasy universe. Hence I don’t question how or why could Wanda & Vision have offspring...for real.

THE END

PS. Once again...this does not fit the comics. This is not the simplest route. But it’s one of the wild theories I’ve had. And I wanted to share it. Even if I don’t think that it could become canon. If it were based on comics, then Billy & Tommy would be reclaimed by Agatha’s master & we’d know how & why all this...

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chingonaclaws · 4 years

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* Note: Since LOGAN takes place in a dystopian world set in the 20th Century Fox world of their ‘XMEN’ in 2029 -- I’ve had to tweak Laura’s canon timeline to fit in with the MCU. These are my compiled ideas/notes for where Laura would/might fit in, according to the MCU timeline. This can also be amended/altered depending upon who I am writing with & whatever stories we come up with on the sides. I will update/list those verses within this list as well. XO. - Betty.

2012. AVENGERS. ✗ verse: ( mcu 001. avengers. ) i am not my enemy.

2002, Alkali-Transigen aka ‘Essex Corp’ ) conducts it’s second round of the Weapon-X program utilizing children ‘perfected’ in a lab/facility. Laura Howlett ( known as X23 amid the program ) was ‘born’ into the program, the daughter of an unknown Latina woman ( who is more than likely murdered by the company shortly after Laura’s birth ) & James Howlett aka The Wolverine. 2012, a 7 year-old ‘killing dream’ begins her hardcore training under the Transigen umbrella, having grown up within their cage and knowing nothing but life within ‘The Facility’. During the events of ‘The Avengers’, Transigen ( more than likely a subsidiary or sister-company to HYDRA ) attempts to gather knowledge/the power of the alien forces that attack Earth. It is quite possible during this attack, the Xmen join the Avengers. - Transigen utilizes newer technology to harness a killing serum that triggers and strengthens the children’s mutant abilities. Through the years they continue to medicate and test the formula out on the children, including Laura; to which they discover if they choose a specific target, she will stop at nothing until said target is vanquished.

2015. AGE OF ULTRON. ✗ verse: ( mcu 002. ultron. ) i can do anything.

2013, 8-year-old Laura, along with her ‘brothers and sisters’ attempt to escape from the underground jail in Mexico ( where she was ‘born’ ) when given word/hope of a safe haven full of mutant-kind. The children are provided stories with the help of comic books smuggled into the facility. Some of which include stories of The Avengers, while others house a storyline shadowing the truth about the XMEN. Upon their first attempt of escape, the children are unsuccessful, and Essex Corp demands that they relocate to a ‘more secure’ unit in New York City. In 2015, the attack of ULTRON commences, more or less rocking the hard walls of the New York facility to rubble. For the most part, with the help of HYDRA, Transigen is able to gather up their little ‘test subjects’, some having successfully gotten away, sadly Laura not being among them. 2016, an 11-year-old Laura with the help of the nurses, including Gabby, leads the pack to escape once more. It’s here Laura encounters her father ( Wolverine/James LOGAN Howlett ), Xavier & Caliban by psionic-ally following Charles’ guidance. During this timeline she goes on the wild chase, running from Transigen and relying on what remains of Logan’s strength. The climax ends with Xavier’s passing and Logan’s sacrifice, and the children successfully fleeing for the Canadian border to ‘Eden’ aka the safe haven which turns out to be a new school for the gifted, headlined by a group of vigilante mutants ( aka, the plotline of Mangold’s LOGAN. ) It should also be noted that during this time period, the X-men are dwindling/dying out, and going into hiding due to many people either wanting to lock them up out of fear or provide them ID badges and what not ( similar to the plot of the ‘Civil War’ in the comics. )

2017. CIVIL WAR. ✗ verse: ( mcu 003. civil war. ) my choice mine.

At 12, Laura quietly slips from the safe haven ( headmistress at this time being Emma Frost ) , feeling as though she’s really more of a danger than anything else, specifically due to the ‘death’ serum. Laura cannot control herself when injected with it, especially if she’s provided a ‘target’. To think she could end up killing one of her own terrifies her, not to mention the more she keeps running the less likely Transigen is to discover her. During the time of the Avengers’ ‘Civil War’ ( between Tony & Steve ), Laura is only a child but spotted through the streets of New York. A time or two, Tony witnesses the feral child having pick-pocketing or slyly stealing a thing or two of necessity. Unable to confine the child or discover her whereabouts, he becomes aware of the ‘mutant strain’ in DNA, now knowing there is far more to this life than other worlds, planets, Norse gods and experimental projects gone wrong like Banner -- Hydra’s been hiding the secret unit to which not only have they began to suppress the X-gene that creates the ‘mutants’ but that they’ve been testing the effects of their serums and juices and what have you on children more-or-less created in a lab with the specific function of utilizing them as some ultimate mutant army. It is a terrible and harsh reality and one he does not take to lightly. Contrary to the comics’ canon ( & the Xmen’s Civil War ) when Tony discovers she is a mutant child born and raised the way she was, he almost feels an obligation to protect her from others who felt mutants ought to be branded or ID’d and what not. ( A bit contradictory to the Xmen comics, I know, but it makes sense when you think of Steve/Capt America in the comics and how against Laura he was in the beginning, I feel he’d be a little apprehensive in the MCU as well. This could change depending upon whom I’m writing with. ) On the search for a place to help her ‘lay low’, Tony keeps her at the compound, until Pepper insists she just come on home with her. ( Again, this can be adapted depending upon the individual story. )

2018. HOMECOMING. ✗ verse: ( mcu 004. homecoming. ) are you sure i deserve salvation?

At age 13, since Pepper thinks it best that the pre-teenage girl get used to a ‘normal’ life, Laura begins attending public school, where she continues to attempt to ‘lay low’. Of course she does her very best to fit in, though there are many ‘human’ things she’s unaware of such as personal space and certain topics of speech. She basically follows the lead of people she feels she can trust like Peter Parker. Technically since Laura also ages much slower than most everyone, she will be a teenager for a longer period in her life. It is within these confines that she learns more about humanity, her compassion for the human race quite evident and her curiosity ever the more present. She spends a lot of time making up for lost time in her childhood, things she’s never discovered, places she’s never been -- a life she never knew she could have. 2019/2023. ENDGAME. ✗ verse: ( mcu 005. endgame. ) i’m f*cking wolverine.

During INFINITY WAR ( obviously just prior to this timeline ) Laura of course fights along side the team sustaining little to no injury even though she could’ve severed a limb or two, due to her mutation, she recovers rather quickly. Upon the realization that she could lose her family of mutants with Thanos’ plan, she scurries to get back to the school, begging many of the others to fight along side the Avengers. She succeeds in convincing several of the XMEN, including but not limited to Emma Frost, to take part in the battle... but it is only to their demise as her healing is too rapid for his ‘curse’ and rather than fluttering into ash, she witnesses all those she holds dear dissipate having to see, once again, the utter destruction of those she holds dear. It tears her apart from the inside. In 2023, Laura is just about to turn 17. -- Upon Tony’s return from space (2019), and the realization that Pepper hadn’t been taken away, Laura barricades herself within the hope she can have a somewhat normal family. She stays with Pepper and Tony, far away from the compound. She takes up her roll as a sister-figure to Morgan, something she absolutely takes seriously. She’d give it all up for this little girl -- hell, for this family. Tony stands in as an unlikely father-figure, but even moreso, Pepper as her mother. ( Again, these choices can be adapted/tweaked depending upon the storyline/plot we have -- maybe Laura grew up at the compound, or with someone else or with Aunt May... the possibilities/ what-ifs are endless... She could’ve also gone off on her feral way, etc etc. )

When the final battle hits, and those who were taken away appear within the portals, a sudden relief washes over her. She has much more to fight for, and she gives it her all. But it is at the loss of Tony where she feels her world crumble once more, wondering if she should go off on her own and call it good, because it seems no matter where she attempts to land, there is far more loss to be had. She contemplates whether or not Logan had it correct when he was always insistent they stay far away from people, isolate and keep to themselves. Of course that was a much different time in the world and Transigen/Hydra has/have more things to worry about than hunting her down lately -- still, it’s a threat. With Peter Parker’s ( and possibly others ) insistence, she remains close by. 2023/24. FAR FROM HOME. ✗ verse: ( mcu 006. far from home. ) el que con lobos anda a aullar se enseña.

Basically, Laura ( now, tech, post-snap almost 18 ) is hanging out with SHIELD, there to aid Peter where needed, more or less helping to keep an eye on him, along with Happy doing her best to stay out of trouble.

#ooc.#✗ soy yo. ╱ lil messican girl is ooooouuuttt.#( mcu timeline. )#✗ verse: ( mcu ) como se cura una herida.#✗ verse: ( mcu 001. avengers. ) i am not my enemy.#✗ verse: ( mcu 002. ultron. ) i can do anything.#✗ verse: ( mcu 003. civil war. ) my choice mine.#✗ verse: ( mcu 004. homecoming. ) are you sure i deserve salvation?#✗ verse: ( mcu 005. endgame. ) i’m f*cking wolverine.#✗ verse: ( mcu 006. far from home. ) el que con lobos anda a aullar se enseña.#long post #long post for ts #* i cannot express enough how laura is a MINOR in most if not ALL of these verses !!!!! k thank bye. xx #✗ ¿merezco la salvación? ╱ headcanon.

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randommarveler · 5 years

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My Long List of Thoughts About Endgame Cuz IDK Who To Talk To

I’m happy about:

WE GOT THE FUCKING HUG WITH PETER & TONY I’M SCREAMINGGIGNGINGIGN

How they implemented the old movies really well

The jealous look Steve gave Pepper like omg Stony stans unite.

Joe Russo having a cameo as gay omg.

Lil Doctor Strange’s hand being all shaky like benedict really went all out with the nerve damage

How Nebula was a huge part of it and not a minor character

“I…am…Iron Man” LIKE FUCK YEAH YOU ARE. Just Tony alone holding all the infinity stones STRONGEST AVENGER RIGHT HERE THAT’S WHY THOR WASN’T ALLOWED TO DO IT.

I think when Steve had Thor’s hammer was when the entire audience was cheering and fuck yeah, it doesn’t look normal I’m not used to it but fuck yeah.

How emotional and impacted everyone was but the dusting. Like Nat was still crying after 5 years. Wait, does this mean everything is like set in 2023? Or at least around that time?

That bit where all the females were basically together protecting baby Peter

Quill’s really bad singing omg.

Morgan. That’s it. That lil bean has stolen my heart. The moment I saw the little chair I was crying (ok I was crying the whole time, not an exaggeration, I got emotional a lot during the beginning dusting, Nebula + Tony playing, E V E R Y T H I NG) I can’t wait to see her grow up x 3000. How dare they take tony away from her. If I wasn’t crying in a scene, I would probably start crying in it even if it wasn’t sad because omg Tony got his baby Morgan. “Mom told me to go save you”

Pepper fucking Potts. I saw the lake and knew that Tony was there (Gwyneth lowkey spoilt that) and like her in that suit was everything.

Tony’s death. I’m actually, in a sad way, happy that’s how he died. I wish he could’ve grown old like Steve but for the way he got killed, I’m happy. He saved the universe. He saved so many people

America’s Ass.

The montage of them trying to figure out how to get the stones.

“On your left” Sam was done so well for the movie. He got like a solid 7 minutes but it was really good. How he was the one to let the whole audience & Steve know that they were back, was everything. I sobbed some more (I was crying the whole time ok? Leave me alone) when I saw the lil case with the shield.

Putting in Peggy, Howard, Frigga, Jane & 2012!Avengers was so emotional and hilarious

Valkyrie was great and amazing

Loki being featured made me really happy

The smirk on Steve’s after he got the sceptre. I can’t believe he said “Hail Hydra” that literally was so much.

The amount Carol was shown. It wasn’t “OMG SHE’S THE HERO AND WILL KILL THANOS OUR QUEEENNN” like, she showed up when necessary. When it worked. Also, she was helping out another planet so it makes sense.

Steve & Peggy finally getting that dance. Like I saw the car, heard the music and cried. Because I knew that was the dance they wanted.

How little Bucky was in it. It did piss me off because he didn’t have enough scenes with Steve, but at least we get a show right?

The whole Howard exchange.

Wanda being a total badass I can’t.

Tom Holland’s performance and part of Endgame was utterly amazing. The instant kill mode was great. How he reacted to Tony dying. Like omg this time it was roles reversed except Tony was gone for good.

The funeral was perfect? The lake, the people there. The flowers. Proof that Tony Stark Has A Heart.

I’m pissed at:

I FUCKING KNEW THEY WERE LYING ABOUT THAT SCENE. ANTHONY’S FACE SAID IT ALL. THEY DID HAVE THAT FUCKING SCENE YOU LIAR.

Thor was basically a joke for being fat. I know that it’s just a shock that he doesn’t have rock solid abs now, but it’s sort of being rude to people with that figure (honestly, it made me feel worse about myself, because everyone would laugh about it). I get that he’s depressed and he has every reason to be fat but like using it as a joke all the time was a lot.

They only used some lines or bits for fan nostalgia or other things. It seemed forced (some bits more than others)

“You used the stones two days ago” ok but when? Like literally Tony was in space for more than 20 days, the maths doesn’t add up.

We barely saw Bruce, just Hulk-Bruce, which is disturbing

The beginning song with the opening credits

I couldn’t actually tell that it was Stan Lee and that was his cameo

When talking about time travel stuff, DOCTOR WHO wasn’t even mentioned?

Killing Tony, Steve & Natasha.

Carol’s haircut…honestly no. I wished the sides were cut a bit more so it’s more like the comics.

Shuri coming with the outfit she didn’t even have in Infinity War pissed me off because everyone had the same thing from when they were dusted.

Cassie being older. Like, I’m not ok with that? She kinda looks 15 instead of like 13 though.

All of that…is canon. Like Tony is actually dead. Steve actually is old and gonna die soon. Gamora, Nat & Vision aren’t there.

That beginning was so quick. With Thanos being killed so quickly. Just I was shooketh.

Thanos can actually cook? Like woah. Didn’t see that coming.

The film was…a lot. You could easily cut out a lot of scenes that weren’t even necessary? I’m sad, happy & pissed at the film. There was so much that was probably there because Steve & Tony were going to DIE. Like steve holding thor’s hammer, check. Tony having a kid, check.

No end credit. Like why the fuck wasn’t there one? The cinema people told us to clear out because there wasn’t one. I wanted to stay but wasn’t allowed to.

How unrealistic was that ending dance though? Steve would’ve stepped on Peggy’s toes omg.

How convenient it was to be able to time travel with the quantum realm and that shit.

What the fuck did Loki even do with the space stone? Where is that sneaky boi now?

Where does the MCU go now? You can’t top that.

I’m sad about:

Everything, this whole film

The cheeseburger bit

There’s so much more but my mind has only remembered these details.

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ellestra · 5 years

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Time travel in the MCU

This confused many people so here’s how I understand it. SPOILERS!

Time travel rules in the MCU are not like Back in the Future rules most people are used to so that’s probably why it’s so confusing. You can’t disappear yourself (or your enemies) by changing past. You can only create new future - a new timeline or alternate universe - from when (2023 or 1950s) you changed the past.

Time travel in the Endgame is pretty much the same as time travel worked in Agents of SHIELD (I wonder if the showrunners were let on the mechanics). In the series they discuss whether time travel is a closed loop (you can’t change anything) or if it creates alternative timelines (and you can change it all but it’s a different universe - old one stays the same) and we see the latter is correct at the end (Deke lives).

This is the same in Endgame and because of that every time they go back to any time in MCU means that they are creating alternative timelines. They can only go back home because there is open gate on the other end guiding them back. So when Banner talks to Ancient One he’s already in another timeline and taking the stones just creates more, darker branches. This is why Ancient One tells Bruce his timeline will be fine no matter what he does but hers will be screwed without the Time Stone. Her timeline still needs it for Strange to defeat Dormamu. His is already safe from that.

Also every timeline/alternate universe needs full set of Infinity Stones to be stable so that’s why they had to be returned to where they came from. And the main MCU timeline is not unbalanced by Thanos destroying them because, most likely and just like in comics, they aren’t really gone just no longer corporeal.

So there is alternative 2012 timeline where Loki escaped with Space Stone after Tony’s reactor failure. In this timeline people think Loki impersonated Cap, pretended to be HYDRA agent and stole Mind Stone too. That’s probably the Loki we’ll see in the TV series.

And there is alternative 2014 timeline that has no Thanos (you’re welcome), his forces or Nebula (this is why current Nebula lives even though she shoots her younger self - it’s alternative timeline Nebula who dies). Stark in that timeline will be obsessing about that otherworldly threat pointlessly.

The only wrinkle in this is how the old Cap travelled back to the main MCU timeline at the end. This is what confused so many because it seems to break the rules. Generally, there are two stances how to explain that. Some people believe that post-Endgame Steve was always Peggy’s husband in main MCU timeline and just made sure to do nothing to disturb it (where would he get the shield though) - see Time’s explanation of this (also if what I wrote is still unclear - they explain time travel/alternate timeline rules too).

However, I prefer to believe Steve did create a new timeline by staying with Peggy. One - because of the rules even if Steve was around all this time Old Steve wouldn’t really be our Steve - just his version from one universe over who created this MCU timeline when he stayed with Peggy (see the rules).

And two - mostly because if he didn’t live in another timeline it would mean that Steve just stood by and did nothing when all the bad things happened. That’s not Steve Rogers we know. He’s not the man who could let HYDRA run experiments on people for decades including mindwiping Bucky (and making him kill Tony’s parents) and do nothing about it. Especially, since he knows he doesn’t endanger the timeline he came from so he can change things.

So I choose to believe He could've done it all - destroy HYDRA, saved Bucky, married Peggy, created Avengers with original Ant-Man and Wasp as in comic books. T'Chaka, Bucky and Ancient One are probably there too. And because this Steve knows what’s coming he prepares Earth for their Thanos and they stand united when he comes. And when it's all done and Peggy is gone he goes to visit old friends one last time.

Either altStark (he probably made the new shield too) could’ve devised a way through Quantum Realm when the gate is opened (all those extra years knowing about the tech) or maybe his timeline Sorcerer Supreme send him there (we know they can see and cross to alternate dimensions). Either way it’s a perfect way to let Steve be Steve and have him there at the end too and that’s what I will believe happened unless canon proves me wrong.

#avengers: endgame #avengers #mcu #avengers spoilers #avengers: endgame spoilers #agents of shield #aos #marvel's agents of shield #agents of s.h.i.e.l.d #aos spoilers #avengers endgame spoilers #time travel #endgame spoilers #infinity stones

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amandajoyce118 · 5 years

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Avengers: Endgame Easter Eggs And References

Okay, Avengers: Endgame has been out for over a week now, so I’m actually getting my Easter eggs up on time this time around instead of waiting nearly a month. That being said, if you haven’t seen the movie, there are spoilers here. So. Many. Spoilers. Do not read this if you haven’t seen the movie.

Got it? Good.

I did not include general pop culture references or, “hey, we last saw this character in this movie,” moments. Easter eggs, comic book references, and things you might have missed are what you’ll find below.

Again, SPOILERS!

The Opening Credits

When MCU movies roll their opening Marvel logo, they’ve slowly been adding the characters they’ve added to the franchise. You see images of Black Panther, Doctor Strange, and Captain Marvel in the last few flips, for example. This one devotes most of the images to the core six of the Infinity Saga. Most of the images you see belong to Black Widow, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Man Captain America, and Thor.

Tony And Nebula

A lot of people like the opening dynamic between Tony and Nebula because it’s something different for us to watch, but there are a couple of callbacks there. While Nebula getting to win a game of “football” is cute, it’s also important because, growing up, Thanos always pit Nebula and Gamora against one another. He made them compete for everything, and despite all of her “enhancements,” Nebula always lost. In fact, those “enhancements” are a result of each time she lost at a competition, prompting Thanos to find a way to “improve” her. Also, the last of the food they have? Tony tries to share it with Nebula, but she lets him have it. Tony sharing his food is a THING in the MCU. In the first Avengers movie, Robert Downey Jr. would actually tuck bags of candy, chips, nuts, etc. into drawers on set so that he could eat between takes. Eventually, Tony just started eating snacks on camera as well. This scene is a callback to him offering food to Chris Evans on camera and it staying in the movie as Tony offering Steve a snack.

The Garden

The planet where Thanos decides to retire is called 0259-S, but Nebula calls it The Garden. That alpha numeric sequence doesn’t appear as a designation in the comics, but The Garden does exist. In the comics, a Celestial known only as The Gardener lives in the blue area of the moon where he literally tends The Garden. That’s what he’s chosen to do with his life. The power of the Time Gem is what keeps his garden thriving while he’s meant to care for it. Thanos, of course, is the one to take it from him in the Infinity Gauntlet storyline. The name for the movie is likely a nod to that aspect of the comic book story, while him “retiring” to a farm is also right out of the comics. So is the scarecrow made from his armor.

“I went for the head.”

Thor says this as a nod to Thanos telling him what he should have done when he didn’t defeat him in Infinity War. There’s also another callback to their fight later in the movie. During the huge battle sequence at the end of the movie, Thanos presses Stormbreaker into Thor’s chest just as Thor did to him in Infinity War.

Creator Cameos

During the sequence for Cap leading the support group (a nod to a piece of advice Falcon gave him in Captain America: The Winter Soldier), there are a couple of cameos. Joe Russo, one of the writers and directors, appears as the member of the group talking about his date. The man who asks him about it? That’s comic book heavyweight Jim Starlin. Starlin also gets a special thank you in the credits at the end of the film. He’s the man who created Thanos. (Sidenote: Joe Russo’s kids all have roles in the film as well. His daughter Ava even plays Hawkeye’s daughter Lila.)

5 Years Later

Not an Easter egg, but some timeline clarification here. With the five year time jump, the big confrontation takes place in 2023 as the start of the movie is very close to the events of Avengers: Infinity War, which started in 2018.

An Underwater Earthquake

When Natasha has her conference call with Rocket, Rhoadey, Carol, and Okoye, they briefly discuss an underwater earthquake near Wakanda. Okoye brushes it off, but there is an underwater nation that doesn’t particularly get along with Wakanda in the comics. Atlantis. Their leader, Namor, is not T’Challa’s biggest fan. I like to think this is a hint that he’s coming. (When Steve visits following this scene, you can also spot Natasha’s ballet slippers on a chair. Looks like she was feeling nostalgic in more ways than one.)

New Hair

Steve and Tony go back to their trimmed looks for this movie, but someone else gets a new haircut. After the five year time jump, Carol’s haircut is closer to her modern comic book look than what we’ve seen in the movies before.

616

The storage unit where all of Scott Lang’s belongings are, including the van and the rat that helps him escape the Quantum Realm, is marked as unit 616. That’s a nod to the 616 universe in the comics, the one that features the main continuity.

“...Only to make conversation.”

So, when Scott asks Steve and Natasha is they known anything about physics, Natasha gives this response, which on first blush, might sound like her being a smartass. It’s not. As a spy, she literally learned enough about subjects to sound like she understood them when meeting a target. The first target she took on in the comics? Iron Man, whom she needed a working knowledge of physics to banter with.

“...regular size man.”

Rhoadey calls Scott this as a reference to the last time they saw each other in Captain America: Civil War. Rhoadey was the one to proclaim, “tiny man is giant now.” It’s a nice call back

The Necklace

If you look closely at Natasha’s neck when they start recruiting Avengers for the time travel idea, you’ll notice she’s wearing a familiar necklace. It’s the same arrow she wore in Captain America: The Winter Soldier as a nod to Hawkeye.

Howard Stark

Tony gets to see his father in the flesh during the time travel segment of the movie, but we get a teaser for him earlier in the movie. When Tony picks up the photo of himself and Peter in his kitchen? There’s a photo of his father on the shelf as well. (Side note: when Tony asks how far along Howard’s wife is in the 70s? It’s because he’s born in May and they arrive in April.)

Morgan

Looks like Tony went ahead and named his kid Morgan just like the dream he had in Infinity War. Morgan was also Tony’s cousin in the comics. (Also, how great is Morgan playing with what becomes Pepper’s helmet? Pepper’s armor, though it isn’t named, is a recreation of her Rescue look from the comics.)

Ronin

Though the name isn’t used in the movies, the name Hawkeye goes by in the comics when he decides to start cutting down all the bad guys in his path, is Ronin. The name comes from the word to describe a samurai without a master. It literally means “wandering man,” and is portrayed in artwork by the bones of a warrior inside their samurai gear. That depiction is exactly what you’ll find in Hawkeye’s tattoo sleeve, and it’s why Black Widow finally tracks him down in Japan. It’s also fitting that his sword doesn’t look like a traditional samurai sword to me. It looks more like a bow fashioned into a sword.

Akihiko

The guy that Clint fights in Japan is based on a comic book character of the same name. In the comics, he worked for a SHIELD rival that was also a branch of the Yakuza.

Recruiting Thor

Thor only comes out once a month for supplies? Sounds like Aquaman only coming in on the King Tide to provide for the people, but I’m hoping that’s just a coincidence and not them poking fun at one of DC’s good on screen characters. The whole thing with Thor yelling at the mean kid Korg is gaming with though? Did that feel like them shouting at the guy’s living in their mom’s basement who claim to be comic book purists to anyone else? Just me?

Also, I appreciate that New Asgard is supposed to be in a Scandinavian country. I do. Tonsberg is supposedly where Odin led his people to war against the Frost Giants thousands of years ago. And it’s where the Red Skull found the Tesseract. However, this is clearly the part of the movie filmed in Scotland. Why? There’s a half empty bottle of Irn Bru (Scotland’s national soft drink, and my personal favorite) sitting on a table behind Thor through most of that sequence. I’m glad someone on set has good taste in soda.

New Asgard also existed in the comics, but as a merging of New York and Asgard when realities collided, and also as Asgard floating above Oklahoma when it fell from the sky.

Ben And Jerry’s

Does anyone remember Dr. Strange and Wong discussing the Avengers ice cream flavors in Infinity War? Looks like Bruce finally got to try some as he’s eating a Hulk-sized container of Ben and Jerry’s during the brainstorming sessions.

Budapest

Just what was the mission in Budapest? Will we ever know? It clearly made an impression on Natasha and Clint since it’s been referenced by them twice before. We also know Fury spent time there thanks to his listing of the B countries in Captain Marvel.

“That’s America’s ass.”

Someone on set knows the internet has an appreciation for Chris Evans’ ass. Who? Who knows? But someone has clearly seen the gif sets.

The Elevator

When we see Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, and Ant-Man return to 2012, not only do we get to see another point of view for The Avengers, but we get some nice callbacks. Cap in the elevator with a bunch of menacing SHIELD agents (hey, Sitwell and Rumlow who are off to give the scepter to Liszt, the same guy that got Wanda her powers!) who are actually Hydra evoked that amazing fight scene in Captain America: Winter Soldier. This time, he doesn’t knock them all out though. Instead, he gives a “hail hydra” to avoid the fight. That in itself also evokes the recent comic book storyline that featured a rewritten reality where Captain America was hydra all along.

“Lunch, then Asgard.”

Back in 2012, Thor tells Secretary Pierce they’re going to lunch before he goes home.That lunch is the Avengers shawarma post credit scene.

“I can do this all day.”

As the most iconic Captain America line at this point, I don’t have to tell you how often he’s said it. I’m sure there’s a gif set on tumblr for it.

Stan Lee

Stan gets a posthumous cameo driving a muscle car with a license plate that includes the numbers 420 while he spouts on about making love, not war. He’s clearly a hippie, and it’s not a subtle cameo. You’d only miss it if you left the theater to run to the bathroom here. You might have missed his “Nuff said” bumper sticker, which was a phrase he often used in his responses to letters to the editor.

Community Cameos

The Russo brothers like to feature actors from their other projects. In the MCU, they’ve included at least one actor from Community in all of the movies they’ve been involved in. This time, there’s two. Ken Jeong plays a security guard at the storage facility while Yvette Nicole Brown plays a SHIELD agent in the 70s.

The Terminal Beach

When Ken Jeong’s security guard pops up early in the movie, he’s reading a book instead of watching the cameras. The book he’s reading is The Terminal Beach. It’s a collection of short stories. One of those in the book had a familiar title. It’s called “End-Game.” It’s not about superheroes, but instead about a man waiting his execution.

The 70s Eggs

Speaking of the 70s, let’s get a few of the Easter eggs and references in this sequence out of the way. The military base is the same one where Steve initially trained and was chosen for the super soldier program. The name on Steve’s uniform? That’s Roscoe for Roscoe Simons, a man who took over for him in the comics, and then was promptly defeated by the Red Skull. When Steve calls Hank about a package? We see the original Ant-Man helmet on his table. It’s pretty impossible to miss. The photo of Steve on Peggy’s desk is one of the images used for the first Captain America movie, and I believe one from the file she had in Agent Carter, if I’m not mistaken. When Tony encounters his father, he’s looking for Arnim Zola, the man who programs his mind into the computers at that same military base and appears in Captain America: The Winter Soldier there. When Howard leaves, that’s James D’Arcy still playing Jarvis and acting as his driver. Jarvis appearing in the movie is the first time a character originated on an MCU TV show to cross over to the movies. It’s a small step, but one in the right direction that might mean characters from Agents of SHIELD, Runaways, or Cloak And Dagger could eventually do the same.

“Get the rabbit.”

The Asgardian guards share Thor’s belief that Rocket is a rabbit because they say this while following him when he gets the aether.

“Daughter of Ivan, son of Edith”

Edith was in fact Hawkeye’s mother in the comics. She died when he was young, leaving Clint and his brother as orphans. Ivan, on the other hand, was not exactly Natasha’s father in the comics. Instead, one story sees Ivan Petrovich as a benevolent stranger who raises Natasha as his own when a woman gives him baby Natalia Romanova from a burning building. Retconning sees that as a fabrication as Ivan was actually a soldier and agent of the Red Room who got Natasha into the program. Still another sees him as her “uncle Ivan” whom she cared for so much that she gave up her freedom, joined the Red Room, and got them both the super soldier serum to save his life. Just how that will play into the MCU remains to be seen in the upcoming Black Widow movie.

The Big Three

When Thanos lets his weapons loose on the Avengers compound, the three that go out to meet him while everyone else is scrambling are Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor. These are the three tentpole franchises of the MCU. While Hulk had a solo movie, it was distributed though Universal and starred another actor. It’s a nice full circle moment for the MCU.

Captain America Is Worthy

When it seems like Thor is headed for certain doom, his hammer finds a new target - and a new person to wield it. Cap is one of the many heroes who wielded it in the comics, but the moment he catches Mjolnir is a callback to Avengers: Age of Ultron. In the movie, the Avengers take turns trying to lift the hammer, but only Cap seems to shift it, though he’s still unable to pick it up. The implication, of course, is that by the time this movie rolled around, the things he’d been through made him worthy.

Also? That shot of him all alone, ready to take on everyone? That’s an homage to the Avengers taking on Thanos in the comics. At one point, everyone else was down and out, and Cap was the only one left standing.

Captain America’s Shield

As Thanos shatters Cap’s shield during the fight, it echoes Tony’s talk of his vision earlier in the movie. There’s talk about how Tony wanted to build a suit of armor around the world, and that wish was a result of the vision Scarlet Witch put in his head in Age of Ultron. That same vision showed Cap’s shield broken in the same way it ends up broken here.

“On your left.”

We all know that this is one of the first things Sam said to Steve in The Winter Soldier, right? It’s a cute callback.

“Is that everyone?” “You wanted more?”

Dr. Strange and Wong have this exchange as the wizards stop opening portals all over the battlefield. Not only is this a nod to the sheer number of characters in the battle sequence, but likely a nod to their being more heroes out there that aren’t in the scene. After all, none of the TV heroes are visibly present.

“Avengers, assemble!”

Is this the first time Steve actually gets to say this on the big screen? He’s been cut off while saying it in the past, so I think it is, even if he gets to say it all the time in comic books.

Pegasus

Where exactly did Valkyrie get her flying horse? We saw it in the story of her past in Thor: Ragnarok, but we’ve not seen one used in the MCU lately, so while it’s a nice callback to her past, it’s an odd one.

“We’re on it, Cap.”

Wasp gets this line when Steve needs a new quantum tunnel up and running. After, she and Ant-Man share a look because he once told her only Steve’s friends call him Cap.

Instant Kill Mode

When Peter learned his suit had this in Spider-Man: Homecoming, it freaked him out, but here? Not so much. He uses it when he gets desperate.

The Ladies Of Marvel

There is a moment during the fight with Thanos where all of the female heroes on the ground manage to congregate around Peter Parker and Captain Marvel. Their aim? Protect Carol from Thanos’ army. Some cynics have called it pandering, but it makes sense. The woman, half of whom have the power to fly, have been following the glove around the field, trying to keep it out of Thanos’ hands. While the guys are still fighting, they form a team. It looks an awful lot like an A-Force team up in the comics, but it also echoes a moment in Infinity War. When Wanda is told she’s going to die alone in battle, Natasha and Okoye step up to protect her, with Natasha saying, “but she’s not alone.” At this point in the movie, Natasha is gone, but Wanda is still following her lead, protecting the other women on their team.

“If I tell you what happens, it won’t happen.”

The first time I saw the movie, I saw this as the opposite of a self fulfilling prophecy. But seeing it again, I actually think Dr. Strange was unsure if Tony would do what needed to be done if he told him the truth about their one shot. He knew to end the Thanos problem, Tony would have to snap his fingers. It makes me think Dr. Strange underestimated Tony’s commitment to saving the planet.

“I am Iron Man.”

This is Tony’s big response to Thanos, but it’s also the most iconic movie from the first Iron Man film. Why? It wasn’t even scripted. The original script had Tony keeping his Iron Man identity under wraps. During filming, Robert Downey Jr. ad libbed the admission that he was Iron Man and it stayed, changing the route of the films.

Also, Tony wielding the gauntlet he made is a nice homage to the comics, where he was actually the first human to successfully create and use one.

Captain America’s Suits

So, we see Steve wear his first Avengers suit. But, at the beginning of the movie, he’s also wearing his Winter Soldier suit. Later, he gets a brand new suit, probably courtesy of Tony. That one combines the look of his Civil War and Winter Soldier suits. But, it also adds the chain mail look that’s prevalent in the comics. So, he gets the chance to be pretty much every version of Cap we’ve seen on screen in this movie.

Harley Keener

The Avengers, their family, and Tony’s family are all present at his memorial, but so is someone else who wasn’t in the movie. The tall teenager at the back? That’s Harley from Iron Man 3, and he’s still played by Ty Simpkins. The kid had a real growth spurt that fits the timeline.

Proof That Tony Stark Has A Heart

We all remember this was a gift set on display for the Iron Man movies, yes?

Morgan Wants A Cheeseburger

Like father, like daughter. When Tony got away from the Ten Rings, he had Happy stop at Burger King on the way to his press conference because he wanted “American cheeseburgers.”

Asgardians Of The Galaxy

I know this is just Thor being Thor, but… there is a comic book team called the Asgardians of the Galaxy. Like the guardians, they travel around in a spaceship and do good deeds, but they’re all from Asgard.

“You’re taking all the stupid with you.”

In the first Captain America movie, Bucky Barnes went to war without his best friend. He told Steve not to do anything stupid until he got back. The above line was Steve’s response. Their roles (and lines) are reversed when Steve travels through time to return some Infinity Stones and Mjolnir to their rightful points in history.

Captain Sam

When the elder Steve Rogers returns to his departure point in the timeline, he does it with a new shield, and passes it on to Sam Wilson. In the comics, an older Captain America who had the super soldier serum removed from his blood did the same thing. Sam even had his own Captain America comic series for a while. (Other heroes who have been Captain America in the comics include Bucky Barnes, Sharon Carter, and Peggy Carter, in case you’re wondering.)

“It’s been a long, long time.”

Could the song title be more fitting for Steve and Peggy? And yes, this is a branched timeline. And yes, the song has been used in the MCU before, in The Winter Soldier.

The Clang

Post credit scenes are an MCU tradition, but this movie doesn’t have one. Instead, it has a clang. That noise is the sound of hammer hitting metal. Specifically, the sound of Tony’s hammer hitting metal when he created his very first Iron Man suit in the 2008 film, signalling the end of an era here instead of the beginning of one.

That’s it. That’s all I’ve got! Tell me if I managed to miss anything.

#avengers endgame #endgame spoilers #endgame easter eggs #marvel easter eggs #mcu

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