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#anti arya stans
the-daily-dreamer · 5 months
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Reminder that if your feminism revolves around propping up women that partake in traditionally masculine activities/roles and shitting on or even hating women who embody traditionally feminine roles and enjoy feminine activities you’re not really a feminist.
It sets the precedent that women are only valuable and valid if they have traditionally masculine traits, which feeds a narrative that masculine traits are better simply because they are associated with men who are the ideal. It perpetuates the idea that things that are feminine and traditionally associated with women are in fact inferior to men/masculinity and should be looked down upon and belittled.
And, it alienates so many individuals that feel more comfortable in femininity, regardless of gender identity.
I think people in the ASOIAF fandom really need to learn this because feminine characters are so despised on the basis that they are not “better” women. Simply because they don’t embody traditionally masculine things like conquering or fighting.
Much of the hate comes from stans that love characters like Rhaenyra, Daenerys, and Arya (and do not get me wrong I love Arya), who are women and girls that are in positions that allow for more traditionally masculine behaviors and tomboyishness. And they will say incredibly sexist things about how the other women in media are inferior and directly contrast these women to their faves negatively by pointing out that they’re “too weak” or “subservient”. They reduce femininity to weakness and bowing to patriarchy instead of considering that some people have a different, more feminine nature. And that is OK! Just because a woman isn’t wielding a sword or fighting on the front lines or pursuing leadership roles in masculine ways (because historically women exacted and sought power in different ways than men) doesn’t mean they aren’t valuable and strong characters. Do not use feminine characters as a negative comparison to show how “feminist” and great your fave is. Because it’s just so blatantly sexist.
Don’t fall into the trap of reinforcing patriarchal rhetoric!!! Don’t reinforce narratives that traditional masculinity is superior to femininity!! Don’t belittle feminine activities and act as if they aren’t valuable!!! Girbosses are great but so are gentlewomen.
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lemoncakz · 2 months
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when it comes to “sansa bullied arya” debate. It always seems to forget the adults around them that enabled this aggressive behaviour between the sisters. sansa is a CHILD same as arya,, but the adults around them either, ignore it or enable it. 
putting sansa on the same level as adults in the series that have committed horrific deeds is beyond infuriating— sansa and arya aren’t the only complicated sister relationships in the series.
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agentrouka-blog · 7 months
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A small subset of Arya stans really needs to understand that there is an essential difference between a by-proxy marriage (everyone is who they say they are, they are just using a mutually agreed-upon stand-in for the legal ritual) - and literal fraud involving a captive and choiceless imposter forced into child marriage for the optics of supposedly continuing the line of the old liege lord with the new liege lord.
Basically: No, Jeyne Poole's ordeal doesn't make Arya Lady of Winterfell, ffs. Apart from the obvious fraud being committed through Jeyne's deliberate false identity, this would imply that the Boltons are the rightful lords of Winterfell and convey this status onto Arya Stark through marriage.
Are you even serious?
Is that how a Stark would think of their claim to Winterfell? Marrying into it, by the grace of the murderers of Robb Stark who have been granted the titles formerly belonging to House Stark by the Lannisters?
Are you going to be calling her Lady Bolton then?
All these contortions just to somehow pretend that Arya has some superceding legal claim to Winterfell over her siblings. Absurdity.
Or to claim that this means Arya has "forced marriage" parallels with other characters. No, that's Jeyne Poole it's happening to. Arya is selling oysters in Braavos and killing people.
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am-just-a-bait · 4 months
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Realistically, if a ship is so irrelevant and you're so sure it won't happen. You'll treat it how Jonsas treat the Sansan shippers. By mostly ignoring them.
Or u could be extra paranoid bc it's very plausible and obsess about it to the point u make parody blogs like Jonsa antis
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catofoldstones · 22 days
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The thing about arya fans' argument that arya comes before sansa in the line of succession because robb disinherited her because of her forced marriage is the underlying misogyny and victim blaming of it, and their assumption that grrm thinks the same. We don't have jon [you know the actual person robb chose over sansa, and i think its time we start talking that the will specifically was about sansa and jon and that shit means something narratively] asserting that winterfell belongs to sansa despite everything and him not falling to the bait of stannis calling her a lannister, to just assume that according to grrm what robb did was OK. If people actually think grrm wants to show robb was right and girls truly are not important and thus his disinheritance of his sister's rights will be upheld, then they need their heads checked. Its not like he showed us that jaehaerys's sexism was what led to death of the dragons and downfall of targaryens even though grrm considers him a good ruler. Ultimately, catelyn will be validated when brienne saves either sansa or arya with oathkeeper and sansa will become lady of winterfell/qitn DESPITE robb's will. He [and arya fans] can suck it.
Hi soulmate anon,
Before we start, I have to let you know that one our previous posts was screenshotted and circulated in the arya stans circles because “we’re spreading our agenda on a neutral public platform” or something along those lines. Idk if you’ve seen that or not but I had to let you know before we go off kicking another hornet’s nest lol.
Anyway, that out of the way, to the Arya stans who are so hellbent upon removing Sansa from the Stark succession, Robb declared Jon as his heir, pushing Sansa further down the line (not disinheriting her jesus fuck) because through her Tyrion may lay claim to Winterfell, landing it in the hands of the Lannisters, exactly what Robb and Cat are trying to prevent. Robb didn’t “disinherit” Arya because he thought she was dead. Hope that helps.
WAIT!
the will being specifically about Jon and Sansa and that we need to start thinking about that narratively
SCREAM
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Okay, I have now moved on (I have not). Though please feel free to talk about this more, I wanna know more. Guess I’ll now have to add jonsa tag to this answer hehe :P
I mean Robb did come from a place of “authority over the female members of his family” here with the will and that’s exactly the kind of thing we have to side eye. Taking it at face value and uncritically thinking about it is not a fair way to engage with the text I feel. You’re right when Jon himself reiterates Sansa’s claim over Winterfell, we are supposed to think twice whether Robb’s action was equitable or not. Stannis calls Sansa “Lady Lannister” to coax Jon into staking a claim over Winterfell so that Stannis gets a good reason to march to Winterfell and attack the Boltons (which he will anyway, but Jon’s, a member of the Stark family, support would mean political backing and reason). If we fall in the trap that Stannis thinks Sansa is now a Lannister, and therefore she is now a Lannister with no claim to Winterfell, then we’ve lost the plot and are coming from the same misogynistic hypocrisy (he wants Shireen on the throne if he dies but calls Sansa a Lannister, how does that work old man?) that destroys Westeros (your Jaehaerys example). And are no different from a crusty medieval era middle aged man btw.
It’s so fucking funny when the readers start emulating the same sexism that the author wants them to critique, and then start calling themselves feminists because they’re supporting a woman’s rights! Which woman’s rights besties? Because the one that clearly has them, you’re actively against her staking her claim. Wait till they read the books with their eyes open and realise that Arya comes at the end of the heirs to winterfell list, despite Sansa getting “disinherited” lmao. And I love Robb, he’s just a boy trying to do his best, but he truly made mistakes, especially with not listening to Catelyn. We also cannot deny the undercurrent of misogyny and chauvinism that Robb demonstrated with the will. Re Sansa’s rights and Jon’s decision to be with the Nights Watch. I will patiently wait for Catelyn to be validated and Sansa to be the Lady/QiTN not only because that subverts reader’s expectations and Westerosi patriarchal standards but because I want to see Sansa antis have a grand old meltdown.
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myimaginationplain · 3 months
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Imagine genuinely going: "only MY favorite character is allowed to like flowers and be seen with flower imagery. her sister being drawn with flowers is STEALING!!1!1!" Like that's a real point of contention for you. wtf is going on with #that side of the fandom.
Yes, Arya does indeed like flowers. Sansa also likes flowers. Most people like flowers in some capacity. It's not some super-special hyper-individualist personality trait, lmao.
(In my opinion, Arya cataloging the different species of flower she sees on the Kingsroad & being willing to get dirty picking flowers for Eddard is mostly about her inherent connection to & comfort within nature. Arya paid attention to the flowers, yes, but she also paid attention to the animals & the trees & the mud. She’s the Maiden of the Tree. But Arya's connections to these other parts of nature are rarely emphasized the way her connection to flowers is, because they can't be used to over-state her femininity. It's extremely obvious that's what's happening here & I hate hate hate it.)
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saltywinteradult · 6 months
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i don’t know who needs to hear this but it’s okay for arya stark to not grow up to be Westeros’s Next Top Model. it doesn’t matter if arya is beautiful or not because it has no bearing on whether arya is an interesting character. she shouldn’t be required to be beautiful for her story to be compelling. if you want her to grow up to be The Most Beautiful Woman In Westeros to get back at sansa then maybe you should rethink some things. arya is so much more than a vessel for your juvenile ugly duckling power fantasy.
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2rats1gogh · 18 days
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This rivalry between Sansa stans and Arya stans is very tiring.
Like, Sansa and Arya are literally two sisters who are also children. Both sides of their fans actively antagonize the other and it’s so annoying. Ngl, sometimes I hate Sansa as well, sometimes I hate Arya. But that’s how it’s supposed to be. Both characters are flawed, and both have positive qualities as well. They both bully each other, it wasn’t one-sided. If you disagree, you’re wrong.
It’s impossible and again, simply wrong to say that one of the two is an innocent perfect little girl who is always in the right, and the other is an irredimibile horrible monster.
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sayruq · 8 months
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What’s the deal with Arya fans pretending Sansa stans are the ones who like to downplay Arya’s suffering as if it wasn’t the other way around? They project so much, it’s unbelievable. They say we claim Arya looks down on traditional femininity. I can only speak for myself, but I’ve read lots of metas written by Sansa stans that acknowledge Arya respects women in general. That’s why I hate the way so many people condescendingly write post saying that “it’s okay to love both sisters” “you don’t have to put the other down just to prop your fave up”. As if both sisters receive the same amount of hate. Well, I think it’s also okay to NOT love both sisters and have a favorite one. I hate how many bloggers pretend to like Sansa when they obviously don’t (sansabuts) and pretend Arya is not a extremely loved and popular character (there’s nothing wrong with that) and Sansa is not a controversial one, that many people love, but it’s still misunderstood by lots of readers as a shallow, selfish and weak girl. It’s just so mean spirited.
What’s the deal with Arya fans pretending Sansa stans are the ones who like to downplay Arya’s suffering as if it wasn’t the other way around?
They want to be us so badly it makes them look stupid.
There's over a decade of metas on why
people shouldn't downplay Sansa's suffering
people should respect and appreciate Sansa's strengths including her intelligence, charm, wit, resilience, etc
people should understand that being feminine isn't bad at all even in a fantasy book.
etc etc
Arya stans just copy and paste and then point the finger at us ☠️.
The meanest things I've seen Sansa stans say regularly is #shipgirl or making fun of Arya for not knowing sigils.
Arya stans will wake up and say the most misogynistic thing you've ever heard in your life. The kind of shit that would make a 4chan incel blush.
I hate how many bloggers pretend to like Sansa when they obviously don’t (sansabuts) and pretend Arya is not a extremely loved and popular character (there’s nothing wrong with that) and Sansa is not a controversial one, that many people love, but it’s still misunderstood by lots of readers as a shallow, selfish and weak girl. It’s just so mean spirited.
I think a big reason those stans have been so pissed off the past couple of years is because Sansa is no longer the controversial character. She's fairly popular these days among book readers. It's no longer commonplace for people to sprout hate towards her (outside of certain fanbases). People like her and people appreciate her the way they didn't in the 90s and 2000s. It helps that the show indicated where Sansa will end up - on the Northern throne after returning to Winterfell and playing a key role in defeating the Boltons (Ramsay or Roose, take your pick).
Sansa is no longer in Arya's shadow, she's not the 'irrelevant' Stark. She has her own fierce fandom. She clearly has an exciting story in the next two books. She's arguably the one who won the Game of Thrones. All those theories about Sansa marrying the Hound and disappearing from the story or Sansa staying in the Vale no longer read like viable theories but antis coping.
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january-summers · 1 year
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So here's a question I'm probably going to regret asking:
You know how people act like Sansa being interested in Southern "Culture" is some kind of Moral Failing that proves she's not an Awesome Badass Northern Girl?
Does anyone ever say the same about Arya and her interest in Braavosi Culture? Or does that get a pass because "Braavosi Sword-fighting is cool" and "screw the South and their fancy shit in particular."
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lemoncakz · 7 months
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what arya fans seem to forget is that barely any sansa stan believes sansa is the perfect sister; most of us are aware her issues in the relationship. but the problem stems from the fact these problems get over exaggerated and put on level of rape/ect when its not; its a complicated sister relationship that has both sides yearn to see each other again while still having difficulties in the past with each other.
in the series sansa and arya have a pretty normal sibling relationship (normal siblings do have fights and compactions, trust me i have a brother thats two years younger than me) if we compare it to say the Lannister siblings or the clegane brothers… some of you need to realize that sansa and arya are both young children and a lot their conflicts stem form the societal pressure that surrounds them and expectations they have to up hold.
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agentrouka-blog · 5 months
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i always love your responses because i think you do such a good job explaining things (even though some of it is just common sense)... so i was wondering if you could read this meta? i've come across this sort of idea about sansa before in their circles, but this is the first time that i've seen them try to argue that she is somehow inherently unloveable *rolls eyes*
-Something I find really interesting is that for all Sansa craves admiration and “love” from others, she’s not especially good at making friends or inspiring supporters. When people do decide to support or “befriend” her in the story, it is always with ulterior motives—almost all of which serve themselves. This includes characters like the Hound, whose connection to Sansa is built off his own ideology concerning knighthood and gender in their social system.
Her inability to create that support system is partially due to her environments: King’s Landing and the Vale, neither of which are necessarily forgiving places. However, despite her hostage status and shamed House, Sansa is still a valuable person to befriend, even if only for ladies. She’s pretty, performs her ladyhood well, has a famous bloodline, and is tied to the very wealthy ruling family. What’s more, she’s obviously mistreated (for a portion of her time in the capital) and without much actual power. If anything, she should garner sympathy friendships, but with everything else in mind, she should attract at least some love, some support that isn’t totally disingenuous or self-serving, however minuscule. And yet even that eludes her for some reason.
The way similar characters—her siblings particularly—so easily find friends and supporters throughout the books really draws Sansa’s lack of them to the forefront. Jon, for example, finds friends in both the Night’s Watch and amongst the wildlings. Bran forms close friendships with Jojen and Meera. Arya literally makes friends in nearly every place she goes, be they high- or lowborn. Daenerys finds companions in her ladies and Missandei and gathers loyal supporters in people like Ser Barristan. Even Catelyn as Lady Stoneheart earns the support of the Brotherhood. Granted, many of these supporters operate in their devotion to specific Houses, but they’re not doing it to serve their own wants and desires, which is a stark contrast to those “supporters” who surround Sansa at various times.
All in all, I’m intrigued at the way Sansa’s desire for love—genuine or affected—evades her while many of her contemporaries, misfits and traditional characters alike, garner it quite easily. Aside from her environments, what is it about her specifically that seems to repel genuine relationships? And what does this persistent inability to gather loyal friends, companions, and supporters indicate about her future role, if there is one?-
if you can probably tell its written by an arya stan
I laughed. 😂 Anything to cling to the idea of queen Arya - or rather not!queen Sansa.
As if being a hostage of the royal family in the royal palace in the royal capital, surrounded by enemies and spies is not the entire reason Sansa is isolated. Do they even consider how much more risk is involved in even casually approaching her, than there is for anyone having a chat with "Arry" or "Nan" or "Cat"? There is nothing "partially" about it. She is a well-guarded hostage and no one safe and well-intentioned enters the perimeter of her prison, end of.
Once Sansa is in the Vale, she is still more difficult to approach by anyone than a "simple" lowborn girl, as the bastard daughter of Littlefinger (soon Lord Protector) - who takes pains to control who she interacts with and how. And still she begins to form tentative bonds to the people around her - mindful to keep her emotional distance to a degree after what happened with Margaery and Dontos.
Which highlights another crucial aspect. Arya's bonds? Generally represent her attachment to others, not the other way around. She declares Hot Pie and Gendry her pack and feels betrayed that they have their own lives and plans, she never asked them if they feel the same way and I doubt it - and yet her bond to Gendry (also on the run, no threat to her!) - is the single most genuine mutual attachment she forms after she becomes a fugitive. Do they think Yoren helped her because she's uniquely worthy and not because she is Ned's daughter? Do they think Jaqen has no ulterior motive? Or Harwin and Beric? They are kind because they can afford to be but their motives are their own ends. Do they think Lady Smallwood would have somehow withheld this same kindness from Sansa? The captain of the Titan's Daughter knows she is connected to the Faceless Men, ffs. And what possible risk is attached to the women of the Happy Port being kind to a beggar girl?
To her vast credit, Arya forms quick and genuine attachments to other people. More so than Sansa, whose situation also doesn't allow for it. But these attachments don't represent a support system and they aren't deep bonds.
This distorted representation of their ability to connect to people certainly doesn't allow for some kind of speculation how Sansa would act and be perceived in a safe environment and or in a role of political leadership.
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alicenttully · 1 year
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I was on a Aria fan blog because I hate myself and wanted to see what they were posting (the Sansa obsession is real like every other post was literally just made to hate on Sansa to uplift Aria) when I saw a few posts about Elia and, I shit you not, this person was arguing that Elia and Ratgar were totally chill with each other and PolITiCal ParTnErS and Elia totally knew about him crowing L/yanna as QLB and supported it because Elia must have thought it was unfair L/yanna couldn't participate in the tourney cause she was a woman (which lmaooo). I just.....I mean....wow. Never thought I lived to see the day people try to Cool Girl-ify Elia but here we are. They weirdly claim it's because they don't want her to be seen as a "victim" so instead they're......depicting her as a doormat with no self-respect who would be fine with her husband's nasty behavior and being humiliated up and down because I guess that's better???? They also argued that Jon would in no way be a threat to Aegon or Rhaenys' places in the line of succession so Elia would be chill about that too (which again lmaooooo). I am amused at the lack of any and all critical thinking, media literacy, or reading comprehension skills but am also flabbergasted and want to start swinging.
Hey.
The people who seriously believe Elia would have defended Rhaegar's completely inane actions are very young or very dumb.
"All the smiles died." There is literally nothing, not a whisper, ZILCH that Elia knew what was going to happen at that tourney or that she approved it. Wasn't there an artwork that was commissioned by George where he approved of the artist's depiction of Elia sitting stiffly in the stands while Rhaegar pissed off the North, Stormlands, & Dorne? Unless they think she was pretending?
And that's such a nonsensical argument for Elia being OK with it. To be blunt, Lyanna not being able to participate openly wasn't Elia's problem. Lyanna not being able to participate openly is not justification for Rhaegar to publicly insult his wife like that - because that is exactly what it would have looked like to outsiders. Not to mention the offence to Lyanna - its kind of a wonder that Rickard didn't rush the wedding after so he could see Lyanna safely wed & have the protection of the title 'Lady Baratheon', but he was probably afraid of particular rumors starting if she fell pregnant too quickly. Ugh...
If I was Elia I would not breathe easy unless I knew that Jon Snow was
a) fostered away from court with people that were unfailingly loyal to me. And unfailingly kind as well. Being smart doesn't require being a monster *cough* Tywin
b) entered the Night's Watch or the Faith when he came of age. Is it fair? Not really- but it's a kinder fate than the one Rhaenys got.
But yeah the people who cry over how its wrong to accept that Elia was a victim dress it up as empowerment, when really it's all just about protecting Rhaegar. If Elia was in on it, then Rhaegar can't be the villain! Are they going to argue next that Aerys was justified in murdering Brandon & Rickard the way he did because he actually knew of Rhaegar's plans & that it was super importance he impregnante the teenage girl he kidnapped/ran off with? Be for real.
Anyway I would just avoid those blogs or be like me, get yourself blocked by them as many as you can looool
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catofoldstones · 2 months
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The “Arya is heir to the North/QiTN/Lady of Winterfell and Sansa is not” is the worst argument to come out of the asoiaf stan culture brainrot and ‘george pls give us twow’ ennui. Truly the worst sludge, absolute steaming hot pile of diarrhoea, trash level argument. Never arguing w anyone about this ever again, it’s already killed too much of our precious time and brain cells, let’s collectively raise the bar of our critical thinking skills, yeah?
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radicalsansa · 5 months
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I'm sorry but the arya stans who hate on Sansa for "bullying Arya" most likely call their siblings ugly and rude names 💀
I'm an only child but come on it is so obvious that that's just what sisters do
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elegantwoes · 1 year
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Its time we start propagating that third tier side characters like Ygritte and Val, and history figures like Lyanna, Alysanne, Rhaenys and Naerys are the ones being given relevance when we draw parallels between them and a POV main character, also called a central part of the books by the author himself, Sansa Stark. She was created first and is the princess archetype of the story so all the apparent things Sansa stans 'steal' from these characters 💀💀 belong to her first and foremost.
Technically Lyanna shouldn’t be included in there because she isn’t a history figure, but the rest I absolutely agree with you, especially on Naerys. Like Sansa is the only person who even mentions her for the first few books. And Sansa is the one who draws parallel with herself to Naerys and wants her husband to be like Aemon the dragon knight. Like George RR Martin is hammering down that Sansa is the character who has any form of narrative connection to Queen Naerys and the romantic pair Aemon/Naerys is (almost) exclusively tied to Sansa’s romantic storyline. Sansa also deals with an Aegon the unworthy in Joffrey. He even flat out says he wants to be like him and have multiple women:
("A king can have other women. Whores. My father did. One of the Aegons did too. The third one, or the fourth. He had lots of whores and lots of bastards." - Sansa III, A Storm of Swords.
Sansa says she’s Queen Naerys and Joffrey says he wants to be Aegon the unworthy. The only one missing in this equation is an Aemon the dragon knight figure. Now who could this person be? Well I can think of someone. A young man who frequently screamed he was Aemon the dragon knight in his childhood in Winterfell. We got three people saying they are a historical figure that conveniently are stuck in a love triangle. The fandom can deny this till their faces turn blue, but clearly Sansa/Jon are a Aemon/Naerys pair.
And even though George RR Martin is extremely obvious in his parallel still certain people try to take this and make it all about their favorite character and favorite ship. If there ever was case of ‘stealing’ a parallel and storyline then this falls squarely in that category, but antis will never admit to this, because if they did they would be admitting that Sansa has something desirable in their eyes that they want to give to their faves.
Naerys will never be remotely similar to either @rya or D@ny. At most D@ny looks like Naerys in terms in looks, GRRM flat out said that, but he also said that’s where the similarities stop. She may look like Naerys in appearance, but personality wise Naerys is described to be timid and Dany is fiercer. And @rya has zero association with Naerys.
The character who shares the most similarities with Naerys will always be Sansa. Another character who is like Naerys is Cersei, but in her case it’s foil. Cersei is her darker counterpart. She does the very thing Aegon accuses Naerys of (cheating and passing her child as his). Elia Martell is also very similar to Naerys (fragile health, reproductively abused, and humiliated by husband. Rhaegar literally does what Aegon IV wanted to do). Perhaps one could argue that Margaery has a small similarity to her too, since she compares herself to Naerys and Loras to Aemon, but that’s it. There are no other characters like Naerys. Especially not the characters whose fans desperately try to steal this parallel and storyline.
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