#anti rhaegar x lyanna

[rise-my-angel]

'BuT NeD ThInKs PoSiTiVeLy Of RhAeGaR' Ned thinks of Rhaegar ONCE that he was a man unlikely to visit brothels. From this we can conclude that he was not a sex pest like Robert. How on earth does this inform of Ned's personal feelings though? Ned is comparing Robert and Rhaegar and thinking in factual terms. Its similar to how he thinks of Aerys killing his father and brother but not once does he express hatred against Aerys. But we do know what he would think of Aerys, its common sense. Even if we go by 'Lyanna was willing' idea, Lyanna still died because Rhaegar impregnated her at 15 and then left her imprisoned without proper healthcare. She died because of Rhaegar's actions. People who use this argument are usually those who don't understand Ned's character very clearly, he is a man who while suffering from ptsd, suppresses painful emotions and feelings.

Ned Stark is SO MUCH more complicated then those people will ever give him credit for. They are desperate to paint him as so easily black and white when he is the most "living in the grey area" man to literally ever exist. They also refuse to give any context to that scene.

Because it isn't really Rhaegar Neds thinking about in that scene, it's Jon. Ned is in a brothel looking for one of Roberts many bastards, and connecting Robert to Lyanna to Rhaegar he wonders if Rhaegar was like Robert in that sense. The question Ned is really asking, is if there is a possibility that there are more people out there like Jon. He's asking himself if he's sure that Jon is alone and comes to the conclusion that yes, Rhaegar probably didn't sleep around like Robert and this comes to the conclusion that the only secret child of Rhaegars is in fact, still Jon.

But it's like you said, Ned strongly buries his true emotions deep down. He is a very traumatized man who has never truly gotten past the point in his life where his sister died in front of him. Ned is still trapped in that room and the haunting smell of blood and roses. Ned was described as catatonic for a while after Lyanna died and he never truly came out of that emotionally. He keeps everything inside very deeply and is utterly haunted with that upcoming trauma once the main story starts. His every action in Kings Landing is rooted in that trauma of what happened to Lyanna and the deep fear of what will happen to Jon. Everything he does in Kings Landing is about that, Neds priority in the story, is Jon. That dicates everything he does in the main plot because he is deeply traumatized and terrifed of what will happen to his son.

There's even a strong argument to be made that had Robert never come to Winterfell and involved the Starks directly within the dealings of the Crown, that Ned wouldn't ever have let Jon join the Nights Watch. That agree or disagree with letting him, that a big reason he allows it, is out of the fear of Jon being anywhere near the people Ned's spent Jons entire life protecting him from. That Ned would rather Jon be in the Nights Watch, then hunted down and murdered by Robert.

Ned the entire story and half of his life has been burying very deeply rooted trauma of what happened to Lyanna, and has been motivated that same time to put Jon as one of his biggest priorities right up until his death. But because he keeps this all buried deep inside, its easy for people, mostly Rhaegar defenders, to paint him as black and white, a bad father, a mindless soldier with no autonomy outside of Robert, a selfish man.

Ned Stark is one of the best written characters in recent literature, theres a reason he's still remembered and talked about to this day, and it is certainly not because he is as black and white as Rhaegar stans desperately try to slander him as.

#if i asked a random person what series is ned stark from #theyd probably be able to at least say game of thrones #if i asked a random person what series rhaegar targaryean is from #id bet most random people couldnt tell me or at best would make a lucky guess #game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #ned stark #eddard stark #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti rhaegar stans #anti targ stans #anti targaryen

[thewitchqueenofharrenhal]

I feeeeeel like people get so caught up on the idea of *romantic* love that everything Lyanna Stark adjacent devolves to how much Rhaegar or Robert must have desired her and her *gorgeous Helen of Troy beauty* -

When I think the love between Lyanna and her siblings is what makes me the most emotional 🥲. You get the purest, most tragic depictions of love and the *realest* depictions of *her* in reference to her brothers. The maiden that loved to ride horses, the maiden who liked to play fight with her brother, the maiden who cared that her father’s bannermen were treated with respect Vs the face that launched a civil war

For this reason I always feel so *disgruntled* when people try to compare Jon Snow foregoing everything to save Arya to Rhaegar & Lyanna when the clearest comparison is Ned & Lyanna and even Brandon to a degree.

Those two gave up their life and *cherished honor* not for romance, prophecy, or wealth but for their baby sister just like Jon 🥲

#asoiaf #lyanna stark #arya stark #ned stark #Brandon stark #anti rhaegar x lyanna #i guess #anti robert baratheon #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti Jon Arya shippers #Im not asking for a discussion btw #these are my feelings #You’re entitled to different feelings #so make your own post if you want to talk about Rhaegar and Jon being twins or whatever

[sunspearesque]

i can't even begin to understand the thought process of rhaegar and his utterly absurd decision to take the most powerful kingsguards with him to either fight or to guard his 15-year-old mistress/abductee (?) and their babe with questionable legitimacy while leaving behind his wife and his two children (one of them is his fucking heir) to be guarded by who exactly? 16-year-old jaime lannister? (who was “guarding” the king that kept him “hostage”)

rhaegar knew damn well his father is going even more insane after a war he started by his utter stupidity and selfishness and they won’t be safe yet he didn’t bother to ensure their safety before he fucks off… the only explanation is that he didn’t give a flying fuck about anyone but himself and his delulu which makes him complicit in their tragic death as much as his mad daddy who kept them hostages and the lannisters who slaughtered them

#RATGAR WHEN I CATCH YOU RATGAR #rhaegar you raggedy ass bitch #justice for princess elia and her children #targ men should start from jail and prove their way out #i just know oberyn is whooping his emo loser ass in the afterlife #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti rhaelya #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #game of thrones

[katshuya]

Rhaegar's wife, who had delicate health, gave him two children. One caused her to be bedridden for half a year and another that he impregnated her with during her recovery or, immediately after and almost killed her, deserved that crown.

Yes she deserved it more than Lyanna Stark who braverly defended her father's bannerman yet impulsively and naively when there was a well known mad king watching and entered as a mystery knight that grabbed everyone's curiosity for being unknown.

Elia Martell, who endured Rhaegar, his prophecy, racist people, and their opinion about how unworthy she was for him AND his racist, mad cruel father desrved respect as well as that crown.

Yet she was gifted with humiliation one after another after all that she sacrificed.

This will trigger many. But that crown was Elia's right after all the hell this strong woman had been through. Not Lyanna's. Yet, in the narrative, it is all about Lyanna and the winter rose.

Rhaegar only endangered Lyanna, and even if Aerys and Lyanna's family and betrothed weren't there, it was still Elia's right.

Honoring Lyanna could have been done more respectfully and wiser, yet it was extremely dumb and cruel.

Yet the audacity to put Elia in such a humiliating situation

She deserves more respect and attention from GRRM, which I doubt he will grant her any true respect.

Elia was killed for the sake of the narrative. So the promised one can happen. She was used and then killed in an unnecessary way for it.

What even happened to Elia's body along with her children's? Definitely weren't sent to Dorne. While we know Rhaegar's was burnt and Lyanna's in winterfell.

If George wanted us to like the Rhaegar x lyanna thing, then he failed miserably. For sane people, of course.

This will always be where he failed the writing.

We hear of Lyanna's suffering in the books, and how she was killed to bring important child for the future of the realm and its safety yet we barely hear of Elia's, who gave and suffered much, much more.

I like the Starks, but this is where George crossed the line with his favoursim.

She is barely there in the narrative, yet her story and the things she had been through and everything associated with her upbringing make her more interesting character than Rhaegar or Lyanna to me and many people.

I believe George unintentionally made her more interesting to many of us when he wanted us to care for Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Edit: I'm talking about the crown, not the winter rose itself. Since some Rx L shippers entered the asks and were acting so unruly like usual.

#asoiaf #elia martell #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti rhaegar #game of thrones #lyanna stark #elia deserves better #rhaegar targaryen #lyanna isn't faultless #a song of ice and fire

[spearsndragons]

I HATE IT WHEN RHAELYA FANS SAY THAT ELIA WANTED RHAEGAR TO TAKE LYANNA AS A SECOND WIFE.

UHM???? FUCK NO!

DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THIS.

first of all, elia was the only daughter of the RULING PRINCESS OF DORNE. do people think her mother sent her off to king’s landing to be disrespected? to be humiliated? NO. she was sent there to be the next fucking queen. aside from political ambitions, the princess of dorne was canonically friends with both joanna AND rhaella. she entrusted her daughter to her friend’s son.

second, elia knew how different the rest of westeros treated their women. sure, dorne isn’t the land of equal rights and milk and honey and all that shit but she definitely enjoyed more rights and higher standing back in sunspear, especially as the daughter of house martell. she knew how precarious her status can be despite being the crown prince’s wife. what fucking good would it do to her if she allowed her husband to forcibly break a betrothal between two MAJOR houses? to basically declare to the entire world and in history forevermore that she wasn’t enough for her husband and he had to get another wife?

third, HER CHILDREN??? she gave rhaegar two healthy babies. maybe she could have given him more had she gotten proper care (no, i do not fucking trust pycelle. he’d probably been sabotaging rhaella’s and elia’s pregnancies to please tywin). rhaegar getting another wife and thus having legitimate children not hers would put aegon and rhaenys IN DANGER. sure maybe lyanna would be oh so kind enough to not contest their inheritance but do people forget the STAB alliance??? the dance???

fourth, er the mere fact that lyanna was betrothed to robert fucking baratheon? disregarding the entire shit about lya running off (or not) with a married man after shitting on robert for being a manwh0re, YOU DO NOT JUST BREAK AN ALLIANCE BETWEEN TWO MAJOR HOUSES. even if the crown had a good reason to do so (which they didn’t), it was an agreement between house stark AND house baratheon. they DO NOT get a say in it. lord, this is contract law 101. robert’s rebellion was built on a lie my ass. the rebels had every good reason to rebel bro.

I CAN GO ON FOREVER BUT ILL JUST BE MAD

#spearsndragons #elia of dorne #elia martell #dorne #elia deserves better #anti rhaegar x lyanna #house martell #robert’s rebellion was justified!

[asharaxofstarfall]

daemon having sex with rhaenerya at driftmark on the day of laena's funeral is very reminiscent of rhaegar marrying lyanna in dorne

#hotd #house of the dragon #game of thrones #got #anti daemyra #anti daemon targaryen #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x lyanna #i was thinking of that whole situation at the funeral today and i knew that it reminded me of something #targ men flopping as usual

[dracodazaii]

im sorry but i can never be a lyanna stan guys.

just lemme explain.

obviously this is only if she willingly went w rhaegar

To begin with, the situation in its simplest form is that Rhaegar and Elia are married, amicable yet not in love, and Rhaegar runs off with Lyanna, causing chaos to ensue amongst the realm.

Even if no war occured and everything was fine, how can Lyanna try to justify running away with a married man, especially on the way to her brothers wedding which feels very selfish, even if Brandon didn’t want to marry Cat, like she still ruined their wedding day.

Not to mention, that running with Rhaegar meant that shes inserted herself into his marriage which is Elia’s place. How nonsensical it is to run away with a married man and somehow marry him!

There’s two routes people go to justify it, and I’ll explain why I think they suck:

1) E-R-L is a polygamous marriage: This is not appeasable to the realm at all! Nobody will accept that. The only reason Aegon+Rhaenys+Visenya were accepted was because they were conquering Westeros, and like you can’t say shit about the guys conquering you!! Also the Targs were on thin ice then, and Maegor also tried, and look what happened afterwards!

2) E-R was annulled and R-L are married: I don’t think this is reasonable at all. Considering that Rhaegar is only HEIR, just like Daemon, for example. Both wanted annulments and both need the permission from the King and/or High Septon, but also considering how the likes of Aegon IV couldn’t annul his own marriage, do you really think a measly heir could?! At least in Daemon’s situation, he had no children, but as Aegon IV and Rhaegar both had kids (Elia giving birth twice in 3 years) theres no grounds for annulment, and it would disinherit his children potentially anyway, or even start a second Dance. As soon as you have a second wife, whether polygamous, annulled or dead first wife, war will be almost inevitable between the potential heirs.

Also Ik its not possible.. but can we stop with the E/R/L shipping in a serious manner (crackship is fine but in canon is 😐)

Like genuinely thinking mid-20s Elia would want to romance a 14 year old girl, would be fine with her husband romancing said 14 year old, or join in together, is so crazy to me. Like, yes Rhaegar is very much in the pedo-realm but why would Elia also follow suit??!

And like not to be a huge Robert Baratheon stan here (i hate GOT era him) but you can’t deny that it is the rebellion+it’s repercussions on his life, that change him so heavily into this twisted abusive, pedo man. He was not a great guy pre-rebellion, he slept around, was loud and rowdy, but I feel like you can’t really say that Lyanna somehow predicted that he would be this abusive evil man, tbh it seems like she just disliked his promiscuity which is valid, but in doing the same to Elia, her point gets invalidated in my eyes.

Also next point is the age-situation.

Now i know that obviously in a real life situation, a 14 year old girl is at no blame for the groomer actions of the adult…. however just look at how GRRM perceives this. like not as an “oh medieval girls married at 14, its fine” because they were still mentally children… but i mean how GRRM perceives relationships akin to R-L and characters by Lyannas age in ASOIAF-verse.

Ok so GRRM thinks R-L is romantic, which means that the groomer undertones aren’t necessarily meant to be there, and its meant to be more of a Romeo-Juliet situation (which heavily fucked over Romeos girl Rosaline ie Elia). He also believes Dany-Drogo and San-San is healthy, so I don’t think age heavily affects characters romantic feeling and actions much then.

Then if we see character Lyanna’s age, they’re treated as adults (yes some do have child impulses but overall adults). You have Robb acting impulsively like a kid, but ultimately being treated as an adult and being killed. I feel like even though they have kid impulses, they’re meant to get adult consequences for their actions.

Also ages as a whole is fucked up in ASOIAF in comparison to real world, like you have baby Rickon Stark going feral in Skagos, you have 3 year old Joffrey Velaryon/Strong squaring up to Aemond, and you even have 11 year old Benjicott Blackwood being an absolute beast of a warrior when in the real-world, he’d be just a kid, useless in defence.

#asoiaf #game of thrones #anti rhaegar x lyanna #lyanna stark bashing #elia martell #rhaegar targaryen #rhaegar targaryen bashing #lyanna stark #a song of ice and fire #got #elia martell deserved better

[yourlocalnetizen]

No, Rhaegar annulling his marriage to Elia is not ok just because it was "forced"

He didn't have to conceive two children with Elia at the expense of her heath just to throw her aside because "he loved Lyanna"

Rhaegar x Lyanna stans gotta stop saying shit like this:

#anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x lyanna #elia martell #pro elia martell #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire

[agentrouka-blog]

Why do most of the people in asoiaf fandom think that 'lyanna clutching blue rose even during her last hour as a symbol of r&l love'. For me blue rose signify as the only thing that reminded of her home in a faraway foreign land and how much she's missing her home and family ?

I feel the same, sort of. Within the books, it's a symbol linked to the North and to Winterfell and to Stark maidens, to the children that result from their stealing, to the violence inherent in it, and to the absolutely doubtful nature of their consent.

"No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says . . . though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote. Be that as it may, what's certain is that Bael left the child in payment for the rose he'd plucked unasked, and that the boy grew to be the next Lord Stark. So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me." (ACOK, Jon VI)

The maid's love and consent is entirely optional and in question and it is utterly highlighted here by GRRM. He did not have to do that. He could have just let Ygritte (who herself is not picky when it comes to consent) tell that story without the insert. But he put it there. He put it there with the Ellipses of Significance, no less. The uncertainty is deeply intentional. Why would he do that?

But also significant in that exchange is that the maid is the rose. The rose is a symbol of the northern maid. They are dead as she lays dying.

Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing.  (AGOT, Eddard I)

She wasn't clutching the roses. She was cluthing his hands. The spilling rose petals were dead and black. This is supposed to be romantic imagery?

He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood. (AGOT, Eddard XIII)

Her eyes weep blood. Is this supposed to be romantic imagery?

Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost. Ned Stark reached out his hand to grasp the flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals the thorns lay hidden. He felt them clawing at his skin, sharp and cruel, saw the slow trickle of blood run down his fingers, and woke, trembling, in the dark. Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses. (AGOT, Eddard XV)

In Ned's dream, the flower crown is aggressively attacking his hands - the very hands that Lyanna clutched in her dying - and it is ironically juxtaposed with her former love of this scent. The flower was turned into a weapon, subverted into nothing but agony. A poisoned gift.

Is this supposed to be romantic imagery?

#anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x lyanna #winter rose #the way doom and despair hang over this flower crown #and we're supposed to consider this a symbol of love?

[sayruq]

If hating Rhaegar was a job, I'm a full time employee

#song of ice and fire #elia martell #rhaenys iii targaryen #aegon vi targaryen #house martell #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti rhaegar targaryen

[atopvisenyashill]

Lyanna gave Jon a Targaryen name. She hated Rhaegar so much she did that? Or are you saying that was a show invention as well like their marriage?

#you are not dead ass trying to tell me that you believe lyanna named him aegon 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti game of thrones #once again i am saying that this a THEORY. #and naming him like. aemon after aemon the dragon knight a renown knight and romantic figure does not mean lyanna liked rhaegar’s flop ass. #when we literally have several freys named after targaryens 😭😭

[rise-my-angel]

So I was fan casting Lyanna Stark, and when I workshopped it to my friend he was like "dude why did you make her look so young thats kinda creepy compared to Rhaegar"

So I had take the time to be like, "Well you see Lyanna was 15 when she was taken and 16 when she died so I chose a fancast where the actress in this specific movie was 16 at the time of filming." And he had to kinda be silent there for a moment because he clearly forgot how young actual 16 year old girls look compared to adult men.

All the while I'm sitting there feeling like:

#game of thrones #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti Rhaegar #anti rhaegar x lyanna

[thewitchqueenofharrenhal]

It is funny that people who dislike the RxL ship always get called puritanical because we’re “triggered by cheating”, when at least for me the RxL ship is just so boring? 😭 like disregarding all the nasty grooming/pedo stuff… it’s bland and boring af? Not even *cheating* makes it interesting? Like RxL gives me 2010 esque Channing Tatum Dear John movie vibes? Like some longest ride movie type? Those two give me Charles x Camilla forbidden romance? it’s just not interesting 😭

Maybe it was a decade ago? But now I’m afraid not .

#y’all can obviously like it #just stop getting mad that we don’t #lmao #they just don’t have it #despite George’s best attempts #anti rhaelya #anti rhaegar x lyanna #asoiaf

[saltywinteradult]

i still can’t believe that ”a 15 year old girl is not capable of consenting to a relationship with an adult man especially if that adult man is the king or a prince” is considered a controversial opinion in this godforsaken fandom

#alicent hightower #lyanna stark #anti viserys i targaryen #anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaelya #anti rhaegar x lyanna #anti asoiaf fandom #fandom fuckery

[katshuya]

No matter what George does. No matter if he twisted it into "Elia was ok and never felt humiliated nor used, and the Martells didn't mind what Rhaegar did" or if George decided never to talk about Elia. R x L will always be disgusting and not a tragic love story.

Any sane human being can see that.

Even in a creepy scenario where she was ok with it OR one where she didn't love Rhaegar, he will always be to blame, and he still used her.

That's why the R x L stans always try to either ignore her existence or reduce it into nothing and her into some kind of supernatural alien human that is ok with everything dirty done to her.

Because they know their oh so tragic, self insert true love story will always seem disgusting because of Elia's existence in the story.

No amount of excuses or fanarts will ever change this truth. No matter which characters George will make accepting and supporting of them (Ned, Arthur, Oberyn, Doran, Ashara, Lewyn and even Elia herself....ect). Why? Because it's unrealistic.

Even if R and L's were running away from Aerys, then suddenly *accidentally* saw a prophecy or fell in love.

OR Even if George made it that Rhaegar wouldn't have left her if she had been able to give him another child. It doesn't change that he abandoned her and their children in the worst way possible with no protection against Aerys and his loyal kingsguard. And even then, it's hard to believe she'd accept just because he told her : Hey, I see in my dreams that I have to have 3 children or we all die. Like, what is this? She almost died for that, no thanks to you and your one after another impregnation.

It's disgusting and not well-written at all.

That's just the plain truth.

That's why a huge part of the fandom dislikes it. Not because they "didn't read the books" or "they lack critical thinking".

It's actually because they know how to think instead of inserting themselves as not like other girls girl and shipping themselves with terrible husband and father, charismatic depressed prince charming.

Poor Rhaegar had a sense of doom following him and knew he'd die soon so Elia let him be? That's very idiotic.

No. Elia being fine with annulment or polygamy isn't normal unless she is forced to. And you know it.

#anti Rhaegar #elia martell #asoiaf #anti rhaegar x lyanna #game of thrones #elia deserves better #lyanna stark #rhaegar targaryen #lyanna isn't faultless #a song of ice and fire #grrm critical #Anti GRRM

[fuhhhhhh]

I am pro team black and also a pro elia martell supporter because both rhaenyra and elia suffered because of men

1) elia despite having a frail body gave birth to two heirs to the throne ( yes rheanys also counts ) but her prophecy driven husband wanted a third dragon so much that he decided to run away with a child ( yes lyanna was 15 in the books when she ran away and no alicent would not be considered a child bride because she was around 18 - 19 when she married viserys even by today's standard she is legally considered an adult) had to pay for what her husband's did was r×ped and watched her son head being smashed across the wall her daughter being stabbed for over 50 times ( yes I am anti rhaegar)

2) and you all saying rhaegar loved lyanna a 24 YEAR OLD MAN loved a 15 YEAR OLD girl , is mind sickening lyanna was also a victim because all she wanted to do was to become a knight but rhaegar probably manipulated her because it is easy to control a child's mind ( which is not fully developed ).

3) rhaenyra mother was the one who suffered because of viserys not alicent because she 11 YEARS when SHE MARRIED viserys and because of them consuming the marriage yearly it lead to her having many miscarriage and still births which only rhaenyra survived and she died while giving birth .

4) Now let's talk about show!rhaenyra who was aged up to 14 (she was originally 8 and alicent was around 10 years older then her) she is a girl who sees herself as never good enough for her father because all he wants is a SON and she thinks only alicent understands her and is her only best freind now imagine your mother was gutted open by your father who wanted a son . then, you find out that your best freind is marrying your father she Was 14 you all and after all that alicent thinks rhaenyra would share all her secrets with her like nO bestie the girl is traumatized and girly if shared this information with her early then yeah she might have forgiven you .

#anti rhaegar targaryen #anti rhaegar x lyanna #pro elia martell #anti team green #anti alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen