#Kung fu panda lore

[shadowlynx-2022]

Kai deserves a redemption arc, no matter what they say!

I don't disagree with you, Anon. However, I don't see DreamWorks bringing Kai back to the KFP universe, since Po completely destroyed his very essence at the end of the third movie. 🤔

#anon asks #kung fu panda lore #I don't know #maybe

[moony-2001]

How I would’ve constructed the 10 year time skip

✨Brought to you by my deep loathing for Lore Olympus✨

•warnings: super long post (I’m not joking), death, kidnapping, violence•

What The Fuck Happened

There was so much potential for the punishment arc. We could’ve seen a lot of character development, fleshed out storylines, reconciliation between certain people. We could’ve seen both Hades and Persephone going to therapy instead of claiming that one therapy session has fixed all their problems and then never going again.

Instead we got horny Persephone, pretty much no clue about what happened to Demeter OR Persephone during that time, and an easy plot device (sorry Cerberus) for Persephone to be like “I’m a big girl now harrumph harrumph, time for me to go reunite with my crusty ass bf who I’ve only know for a month”.

I hate the way she reunited with Ares. Ares is just a bonafide creep throughout the whole comic (although I liked when he attacked Zeus lol). I guess what I mostly hate about Ares and Persephone’s interaction is, yet again, it’s another example of every guy in the comic going AWOOGA over Persephone. Also Athena’s design is so fugly. I guess Rachel is completely incapable of drawing masculine presenting women as actual women.

The whole Kronos plot line is stupid. I hate it so much. Imo the whole “the titans are trying to escape so they can rule Olympus again” is overdone and not particularly done well. The fight between Kronos and Persephone is lame as shit. Like what, she gets big for all of 20 minutes, burps out a bunch of bees (which aren’t even aggressive creatures), and then does her version of the Wuxi Finger Hold from Kung Fu Panda and has Tartarus spirit Kronos away, magically fixing all of their problems (except it doesn’t and nothing is actually fixed).

Also I might get a lot of flack for this, but I don’t think the addition of Morpheus’ character was necessary. I like Morpheus. I think she’s cute. But she’s a) slowly turning into another version of Hecate and b) not really vital to the narrative imo. We already have so many other characters and plot lines that take away from the central “romance” the story is SUPPOSED to be focused on. I just don’t think we need ANOTHER character whose arc is probably not going to go anywhere.

So yeah, overall very L writing, L plot, and L characters.

What I would do differently

The first thing I would change is that the whole punishment arc would be an entire season unto itself. You’ll see why it has to be a separate season.

The second thing is (and this literally pains me to say) in order for me to rewrite this portion of LO without rewriting the entire comic, I kinda sorta have to throw the entire timeline of Greece out the window. If I try to follow a timeline based on the history of Greece, the entire timeline of LO has to shift massively. I’m already getting a migraine trying to think about how I could possibly make it work.

I do know this: Instead of 10 years I’d do somewhere between 1,000-3,000 years. 10 years is a joke. When you’re a god, 10 years is a trip to the time out corner

For now, let’s just say (assuming LO takes place in the Ancient Greece era) and Ancient Greece spanned ~1500 years, Persephone’s punishment would’ve needed to have been established near the very end of the collapse of the Late Bronze Age, spanned the entirety of Ancient Greece as we know it today, and ended some time in the very early Byzantine era. So like what, 1500-2000 years? Fine. I can work with this.

The Famine

You know how the first 400 years of Ancient Greece was deemed the “Dark Ages” and it was a time of war, famine, and loss? I want to start the punishment there. It would make sense for what we know about the characters thus far:

Demeter has had complete control over the growth of the flora and fauna on earth. She’s the goddess of the harvest after all. But we also find out that while Persephone has been in Olympus, Demeter has also been carrying out her duties as the goddess of spring. Plus Demeter has been around for forever and a day. She knows what she’s doing

Persephone doesn’t (at this point in the comic) really have control over her powers. Even in her fits of rage, she ends up doing more harm than good (i.e. her act of wrath, turning Minthe into a plant, etc.). In comparison with everyone around her, she is a literal infant. I mean shit, she’s only been alive for 20 years compared to the fact that everyone else has most likely been around for a minimum of 500 years.

If Demeter is stripped of her status as a goddess (and thus her powers) it would make sense that there would be a lot of death and famine and war over territory/food. Persephone would be left with nothing: no guidebook, no how-to. Of course a lot of people would die while she’s trying to figure her shit out. It could also be a very interesting tactic for psychological warfare on Zeus’ part. Zeus KNOWS Persephone doesn’t know what she’s doing. He knows people will die. And he knows that since life is precious to Persephone (or at least that’s what she claims), it would punish her further.

We can see episodes of Persephone struggling to provide for humanity. We could have real world examples of the affect of famine and depopulation. We would see her struggling with her powers, her mental health. We could get an episode that explains how her hands got destroyed from trying to mimic her mother’s powers. We can see what the fuck happened to Demeter in Attica.

Now obviously things will eventually go on the up and up for Persephone and her compatriots. The whole 1500-2000 years isn’t just going to be one big clusterfuck. As time progresses and chapters pass, we could see real character growth for Persephone not just mentally, but in almost every aspect. Since she will have been alive at that point for over 1000 years, the readers would be able to see her newfound maturity. We could also see her build strong female support systems and strengthen her friendships, something we NEVER saw in the OG comic (or at least they never happened without Hades somehow being involved). You get the point.

What’s Old Man Hades up to?

I have big plans for Hades and none of them involve him going into a 1000+ year coma or getting possessed by his creepy-ass dad. He is an asshole though. I kinda wanted to portray him in this the way he is in the original myths (which for those who don’t know or haven’t read it, it’s not good).

So in Greek mythology, Hades actually had a wife before he even met Persephone or Minthe. Can you take a wild guess as to who?

Bingo! It’s Leuce. Contrary to popular belief, Leuce is actually NOT a home-wrecking POC version of Persephone (don’t @ me we all know the nymphs represent the lower class and POC). In mythology, Leuce was Hades’ first wife/lover and she died sometime long ago and I believe was turned into a white poplar tree. No she is not a cousin of Thetis and Amphitrite. She is not even remotely related to them. And Thetis and Amphitrite are sisters, not cousins. Do your fucking research Rachel.

Unfortunately, Greek Mythology doesn’t really mention all that much about Leuce outside of the fact that she was a daughter of Oceanus, she was kidnapped by Hades, and when she died (for unspecified reasons) she turned into a tree. Which means I’m going to be taking a lot of creative liberties for this portion of the post. Sorry to all you diehard fans of Greek myths out there. I shall try to do her justice.

In my head-cannon Hades and Leuce had been in an arranged marriage for thousands of years. Leuce was offered by Oceanus as a peace offering after the War and Hades, not really having any other viable options for a wife, agreed to take her to the underworld (much to her dismay). Over time, they grew to have a mutually loving/caring relationship. Unlike LO Persephone, Leuce was a good queen and she worked hard to make sure the denizens of the underworld respected her and that they were well cared for. Unfortunately, they got divorced because Hades starting having an affair with Minthe. Even though she loved her kingdom and the people of the underworld, she divorced Hades because she couldn’t stand to be around him, which, y’know. Fair.

A few notes: in my head-cannon, Leuce is still around leading up the the trial and punishment. Her portrait would still be up, we would see signs that Hades and Leuce still interact (more in terms of business, not romance), etc.

Also, unlike Persephone, Leuce would not take her anger out on Minthe or turn her into a plant or destroy her apartment. She would simply wish her good luck. She would be mad at Hades for cheating and for taking advantage of Minthe while she’s at her lowest. But I’m going to be straight up: even though Leuce is meant to be the better Persephone, she still has her flaws. She’s not going to feel inclined to help Minthe in any way. Would you want to help out the person who your partner is cheating on you with? The answer is no and if you say yes, you’re lying.

Anyways, during the Punishment, Hades and Leuce reconnect and Hades finds out Leuce is dying. He tries to convince her to leave the underworld and return to her father, but she insists that she is going to stay, even if it means she dies away from everyone she loved. She won’t abandon her kingdom, her people, or her ex-husband (although that’s much better than he deserves). They move in together and Hades begins to take care of her, even as she begins to deteriorate. They also begin to rekindle their past relationship and (with the help of a therapist) work through some of their past problems together.

Note: their relationship rekindles a couple hundred years into the punishment so by the time the punishment ends, they’ve been back together for a minimum of 1200 years

The aftermath and the Rape of Persephone

Before any of you go gaga over me for the title used above, the original title used for the myth is The Rape of Persephone (or if you want to be really original, The Rape of Proserpina). In the context of the title, the term “rape” means to be taken/kidnapped rather than having sexual violence inflicted upon you. Rape stemmed from the traditional Latin word “raptus” which means “to be seized” or “carried off”. Okay? Okay.

So after the Punishment ends and Persephone feels like she has thoroughly improved herself, she goes to find Hades and talk with him about their relationship. Mainly that she feels they rushed into it, and even though she does like him she wants to take things really slow (kind of like how she wanted before getting married 3 episodes later).

Upon arriving to the underworld/Hades house, her worst fears are realized: not only has Hades (seemingly) moved on, he has found someone else. Or rather, he got back together with his ex-wife.

Persephone freaks out (“who is she?”/“I’m his wife!”)

Persephone, throughly upset for getting her hopes up, flees back to mortal realm. Hades goes to leave Leuce, but not before she tells him that if he leaves her for Persephone, she will never forgive him. Hades leaves anyways, much to the absolute despair of Leuce, who is left wailing as he runs off.

Persephone returns home and finds Demeter and they hug. Demeter is initially horrified to see what happened to her hands, but is proud of the work she did during the punishment. Persephone cries to her mother about Hades, and Demeter tries to comfort her but it inadvertently comes off more as “I told you so” rather than “I’m sorry you had to experience that” (although Demeter is sorry that Persephone’s heart is broken). Persephone, already feeling incredibly emotionally distressed, lashes out at Demeter and they start to argue. This is when Hades arrives.

Hades sees Demeter and Persephone arguing and inserts himself into the situation. Persephone becomes more upset after seeing him and Hades (assuming that Persephone is upset about the fact that Demeter is getting in the way of their “relationship” and not the fact that Persephone discovered Hades went back to his ex-wife after saying he loved her) whips out the the “one personal question, no exceptions” card and proposes to Persephone. He insists that he loves her and only her and that they should spend the rest of their immortal lives together.

Persephone says no.

Hades, not taking no for an answer and not wanting to leave the mortal realm empty handed, kidnaps Persephone, much to the dismay of Demeter, Artemis, and the nymphs. Hades returns with a traumatized Persephone to the underworld to find that Leuce has died and turned into a white poplar tree. While Persephone is sobbing on the floor, Hades weaves a mock crown from the branches and leaves of the tree, places it upon Persephone’s head, and tells her she better get used to their life together.

Thus ends the season and the punishment arc.

Afterthoughts

Thank you for sitting through my ramblings. I officially joined the anti-LO community about the time the trial happened and had been wanting to make a post like this for a reaaaaally long time. Besides the fact that the trial in of itself was completely unethical (@genericpuff made a whole post about that) the punishment arc just really pissed me off. Like go girl, give us nothing!

Anyways, I may or may not do a whole timeline reconstruction of LO depending on how much I feel like offing my sanity with the amount of research that would have to go into that. Until then, I hope you like this post and look out for other anti LO posts coming your way :)

#lore olympus #anti lo persephone #anti lore olympus #unpopular lo #unpopular lore olympus #kung fu panda #anti lo #lo criticism #lo critical #long read #lore olympus criticism #lo critic

[noose-lion]

Just watched the Kung Fu panda 4 trailer.

1) WHERE THE FUCK IS THE FURIOUS FIVE?!

2) WHY DO THE NEW CHARACTERS NOT EVEN LOOK LIKE KUNG FU PANDA CHARACTERS WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!

DreamWorks better not fuck this up, Kung Fu Panda was one of the best trilogies in the world, and I'm already disappointed.

#kung fu panda #my favorite cartoon movies ever #jester's ramblings #jesters privilege #jester lore

[forvalkyrie]

tai lung didnt want to be the dragon warrior to appease some megalomanic dream of evils. tai lung needed to be the dragon warrior to finally accept that he was wanted in life. since he had been abandoned when he was a baby.

the dragon warrior legend has been engraved in their history. not onlywas teh dragon warrior a kungfu master, they were also supposed to bring unity and peace. they were fundamental to the entire world.

for tai lung, becoming dragon warrior would mean that he was wanted, or even needed, to be in the universe. that his legacy had been engraved in history. becoming dragon warrior was a form of validation for his life.

#tai lung is like highkey my fav villain #and hes voiced by ian mcshane!! an awesome actor #ugh anyway tomorrow youll likely catch another deep dive on the kungfupanda lore lol #tai lung #kung fu panda #kung fu panda tai lung

[rarilee33]

so uhh who wants to hear about my kung fu panda-adjacent au?

#moral orel #my art #sketch dump #kung fu panda #bloberta puppington #clay puppington #orel puppington #bloberta hymentact #shapey puppington #danielle stopframe #stephanie putty #francis clara censordoll #arthur puppington #block posabule #there's like a lot more besides these #much lore #kung fu panda au #crossover #moral orel au

[rennsdeaddoves]

Le Xiaolian

introducing Le Xiaolian (name means little compassionate one) the Dragon of the Jade palace and master of the peaceful ways.

Having been taken in by the wise sage himself, Master Oogway, Xiaolian grew within the walls and halls of the jade palace trying to lear of all the wisdom she could, but she was not alone in her endeavour for there was another young soul living in the Jade palace and he was an Kung Fu prodigy. The young cub Tai Lung shared the space with the hatchling and they were each others only true friends.

and while the two may have grown together they did not train together, the goals that they and their masters had for them being completely different. though it did not stop them from meeting outside the jade palace on assignments.

Xiaolian was often instructed by Master Oogway to travel long distances and attend lectures being given out by other Kung Fu masters, sometimes she was even encouraged to stay and learn from them for some months at a time.

Over the years her and Tai Lung grew closer, However nothing would become of budding feelings for the snow leopard was Denied his destiny and the ensuing rampage had him being detained and eventually sent away, far from the Valley of Peace where for the next 20 years Xiaolian wouldn't see or hear of him.

Heartbroken (but now knowing she was) Xiaolian dedicated this time to mastering the ways of peace and wandering all across China scarcely returning to the Jade Palace unless it was absolutely necessary for her to do so.

Until word that Master Oogway had chosen the Dragon warrior drove her back, but that hadn't been the only word she had heard. Her oldest friends escape also brought her back, hoping she would be able to save him before he could be rendered dead.

and she did, she stopped the Panda from using the Wuxi finger hold to its fullest extent and instead of destroying the leopard it removed most of his spirit instead.

the effort was slow, and the process long, but eventually Tai Lung was able to move freely again with her. Old feelings returned and finally something could be done about it.

but off in the world, threats from the heavens themselves arose, or more so, fallen celestial warriors made their presence known, plots that had been 40+ years in the making could now be carried out, and it was Xiaolian's duty to stop it, for she had ties to them all.

(yes i have redacted information on her character sheet because i actually want this to be a surprise lmao)

#determination of the forsaken #DOTF #kung fu panda #kung fu panda oc #kung fu panda fanfic #oc lore #tai lung #kfp po #master oogway #master shifu

[sh4rkbug]

holy shit it’s an oc

um yeah his name’s Monotone and this is an actual character sheet thing. It’s actually a redesign since his first design looked too bland and I like how it came out. I may make another one of these and make some actual character sheets for my other ocs

(if y’all want the info then I’ll post a link here-)

Alt versions here showing glow

#my art #digital art #original character #oc #my ocs #my oc art #oc art #SHIT I forgot to put it on the thing but #the scary looking form is called the Blood Moon form #quick lore dump basically Monotone is a failed-ish lab experiment #so not only does he look off compared to others in this little oc world #but also tweaks tf out during each blood moon/lunar eclipse #oh yeah and he cam switch from biped to quadruped and vice versa #like in kung fu panda #and yeah lore dump finished #one more thing #don’t tag as furry please 😭 #anyway he’s my little guy #i love him

[molluscviolence]

I can't believe people come on the Internet and spout bullshit about kung fu panda

#THE LORE #YOU'RE IGNORING THE LORE #You clearly haven't seen kung fu panda 3

[indigenous-character-tournament]

Master Oogway from Kung Fu Panda is indigenous-coded! He's a one-thousand-year-old tortoise born in ancient, pre-modern, pre-European Galapagos Islands.

i looked it up and you are right i literally did not remember that from the movie but then again i havent seen them since i was small

thats really cool though!! thanks for sharing!! :)

#kung fu panda lore...... #ict recs

[amidalashandmaidens]

Story time: saying anything about pizza pockets will get a chuckle out of Jotaro.

This is because when Jolyne was 8, she got into the freezer, took out 6 pizza pockets, climbed on the kitchen counter, stuffed them into the microwave, and nearly got sick off of them.

Eileen and Jotaro found her on her back laying on the kitchen floor, groaning but satisfied.

It was her greatest heist! It's like that kitten meme, 'FILLED W/CHEESE'.

Jotaro's first instinct is to panic, cause he can't tell exactly what Jolyne has gotten into (immediately thinks of the time Jouta MacGyvered his way into the 'child-proof' Flintstone gummies). The number for poison control is already typed in, he just needs to hit the call button when-- Is that cheese??

"Joly, how many????"

"hhsjarfe...."

It felt kinda cruel to punish someone already facing the consequences so Jolyne gets off basically scot-free.

The jokes though, ugh.

#jot was just working in his office #and eileen was paying v v close attention cause jouta wanted to show her how pretty his handwriting is #when u picture jolyne climbing let it be that scene from kung fu panda when po is getting his cookies #girl is motivated!! #+ will never be able to look at a pizza pocket again #oc lore #my lore #implied #jotileen #canon x oc #oc x canon #jotaro kujo #jolyne cujoh #eileen barreau #eileen kujo #ash thoughts

[shadowlynx-2022]

Imagine Oogway screaming like Lemongrab.

I think that would be VERY disturbing, honestly 🤣

#anon asks #master oogway #kung fu panda lore

[caracello]

iithink. m y s/i for mdk (kibble(her name is kibble)) needsto be friends with v2

#the lore im concocting in my head rn insane #mdk lays down to take a nap in his tomb and twlls kibble to put the skull down to wake him up in like 30 min #and shes like OK 👍 < immediately forgets and wanders off #andthen she runs into v2 and he thinks shes funny and stupid (she is) and so it makes her its sidekick (she goes along w it bc she doesnt #rly know whats happening) and now v2 hhas a stupid little mousie sidekick. Ok. do you understand my vision #im imagining v2 aas the like cocky edgy virgil-dmc type for this. #at some point my s/i remembers to wake up mdk amd owl and then v2 has the most annoying whimsical friendgroup ever #v2 play dnd witj us v2. v2 its movie night. v2 stop questing for revenge its movie night were watching kung fu panda #crushposting

[lovelytayforce]

I think I'm gonna watch a thousand nights go by

The musician in the background can take me on a ride ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ “Hmmm~♫”   “

A lone hum rolls across the quiet unutilized path below the large trees surrounding them. They teemed with overgrowth and unswept leaves.

He kicked a stray rock around as he walked with his hands in his pockets, his eye caught dimmed windows above, only a select few lights were still ablaze at this late hour.

Yellow eyes watched him from those houses built around those trees.

The melody continued to travel as he made his way to the very edge of the village, this is where everything cleared away, feeling more akin to any other city or village he had visited.

The feel of a stone path was comforting.

The wind picked up its pace, causing his red scarf to flutter in the wind, he breathed in the fresh air catching the crisp scent of water and pine nearby.

He threw a couple of golden coins toward an offertory box with only a slight glance to an old owl, watching him not from above but at his eye level.

The stranger smirked as that old man took in his visage with a mix of wonder and concern, it wasn’t everyday you saw such a dapper fellow as himself, draped in gold and red from head to toe but not in a tacky way as the Emperor’s of old he once knew.

‘I have much more style than that.’ He thought with a laugh he could not contain. Why should he? Life was meant to be enjoyed in the moment.

The wind howled louder as he approached the main shrine, wooden fixtures clattering loudly with the tree’s branches shifting as he bowed toward the main shrine with a toothy smile.

“Ah, I see you are awake, good.” The stranger spoke up with a delighted tone. “I have given your shrine the proper offering and people say I never learned my lesson ehe! Now,” Blazing gold eyes meet another pair of yellow within the dark shadows of this decaying shrine. “Show yourself,”

It was connected to a large tree, one towering above the rest he had seen on his trip here. Even after many decades, this lone tree stood the tallest among this land, hiding away the lights in the distance across the lake.

His tail twitched at the sound of heavy footfalls and claws scraping against aged wood. Seems as if his friend was not fully awake as he had expected, and by the wind’s course. ‘He seems annoyed uh oh…’

Despite this clear indication for him to leave as if the person within the shrine thought this would be enough to make him leave. It made him laugh again.

Ding.His laughter stopped and his body came to a standstill as he noted the metal bells had not ringed yet at all.

The sound of creaking wood grew closer and in the subtle light of the moon, did he see his shadow.

“Fei Lian…” The stranger lifted his head, marveling at how even his old friend seemed enamored with his growing collection of gold trinkets and jewelry across his body. “You’re control over the wind never ceases to amaze me, tell me how long has it been now? Two hundred or maybe it was four-”

“Speak quickly.” Fei Lian demanded and even the shadow of his horns reached the tip of his own shadow from the safety of the shrine. Ah, it seems things had escalated as he had foretold.

“Why?” He couldn’t help but whine as the wind picked up again, but he simply leaned on his heels, no longer feeling the need to kneel much less bow to someone he knew was faltering. “We’re old friends aren’t we? And what do you have to do that’s so important? Sweep a land that is no longer truly yours-”

The gale he experienced alone was sharp, tearing parts of his clothing as a warning. There was a sharp slam of a door behind them, most likely the old man.

Fei Lian hadn’t hesitated to grab his collar, lifting him off the ground only slightly. “Heh…Is this all you're capable of now? Even after all this time…” There was a tinge of sadness to his voice, it was unintentional but really, watching a god fall so far was tragic.

And not in an entertaining way. - This is a piece of writing from let's say from the beginning arc of my new Fic "Starry Invader" featuring a couple of immortals let's say, the age of gods have seemed to pass this era by. But as we can see here, they desire for that era to return, in different forms and for very different reasons? I wonder if the flowers will grant Fei Lian's wish? Stay tuned to find out!

#kung fu panda #wow I can upload new things without feeling like i'll explode #son wukong #monkey king #cmon it was obvious #fei lian #chinese gods #lore #long text post #fanfiction #fanfic #taylors writing #taylor talks

[creaman]

—BECAUSE KUNG FU PANDA 4 KILLED MY GRANDMA, OKAY?

To preface, I watched this movie and I'm genuinely tweaking right now so I had to write down a very brief (lie) criticism on this film — which you should boycott, by the way.

Starting with the things I liked, before briefing my primary points of criticism:

Po's Character Regression

Po and Zhen's Dynamic

The Chameleon

I'd also yap about Lord Shen and the death of the art style and the entire narrative and pacing and use of the staff of wisdom but my therapist says being such a hater is 'unhealthy' or something. My heart is full of hatred.

SPOILERS for the entirety KFP4 for the 2 people who care.

KFP4 undermines and ignores the previous three movies — Unwriting character developments, outright removing the Furious Five, straying from the character design philosophies and is completely inconsistent with the established lore.

Things I Liked About Kung Fu Panda 4

The Chameleon's character design

Visual gag in the Tavern where Po uses a recently thrown axe as a hat rack (made me laugh)

When Mr. Ping did this:

so cute! the little heart!

Po — Character Writing

Po, as established in the previous movies, is confident in his abilities and identity — he’s learnt inner peace, he’s matured as a character. However, in KFP4, his character has completely regressed. He’s immature again (such as KFP1, possibly worse) and says verbatim, “only knows kicking butt and taking names” — UNLEARNING inner peace and insisting that “…being the Dragon Warrior is all I know.”

It’s childish, and sort of Hotel Transylvania-esque.

Which isn’t helped by the comedy, the dialogue — a large chunk of which are jokes in the style of:

Master Shifu says something philosophical

Po quips off of it / doesn’t get it (i.e. Whoa!! beat I don’t know what that means.)

Oh, it’s great, yeah, very tolerable. Po’s shenanigans are normally reeled in by the presence of the Furious Five who are generally more serious in nature, creating a much needed balance in the dynamic — So without them, it’s just Po becoming increasingly obnoxious and insufferable with every consecutive quip throughout the screenplay.

Po and Zhen — Character Dynamics

[No more graphics sorry I'm too angry]

As if it wasn’t obvious that Zhen was going to be the next Dragon Warrior the second she was introduced.

Zhen, as a character, has no depth besides being a quippy thief. She quips, she steals. This character has no motives — it can be assumed that the writers intended on a ‘change of heart’ thing, but she isn’t established as evil, her working for the Chameleon is written as a (albeit poor) twist reveal.

By which point, her taking either side wouldn’t make sense, given that she has shown no loyalty or attachment to either Po nor the Chameleon.

The movie artificially strengthens their bond by having Zhen start opening up about her backstory out of nowhere for no reason but they have done nothing to grow closer to each other.

Small tangent, her backstory is exactly what you’d expect it to be with no subversions or even emotional weight. Woe is me I was so small and hungry I had to steal to survive. Glossed over in about a minute.

The majority of the dialogue between Zhen and Po is spoken exposition — explaining how powerful and badass the Chameleon is, explaining how ‘we have to go here to do that’ and ‘this place was cool until the Chameleon did such and such’, and the rest of their time together is spent engaging in filler chase sequences and fight scenes.

The Chameleon

Where do I even start…

This is where it becomes apparent that the movie relies heavily on telling rather than showing —

She is the weakest villain by far, not only in universe but as a written character; which is particularly disheartening because I genuinely adore her character design and feel as though a shapeshifting character has great potential.

The movie artificially inflates her power by insisting through exposition that this is the most capable antagonist thus far (lie).

The audience is TOLD by Zhen and various restaurant patrons that the Chameleon is a powerful shapeshifting sorceress and that she 'dominates the city' whilst the film does nothing to showcase this.

'Dominating the city' meaning letting her henchpeople run amock and bully the civilians just like Lord Shen's wolves in KFP2... uninspired.

I just realised they didn't even give her a NAME what the FUCK is going on

She describes HERSELF as ruthless, clever and unsentimental when comparing Zhen to herself.

She says HERSELF that she’s “Stronger than every opponent you’ve ever faced.”

Let’s see what vile reprehensible things she’s done, shall we?

Gently push someone down some stairs

Her first appearance is through Zhen’s exposition, as opposed to the dramatic and memorable entrances of the previous villains. Her motives or character aren’t established until the final third of the film. She doesn’t even FIGHT anybody until the final third of the film; and even then, her fight sequences are uninspired and she never really poses a real threat. (She goes down in two hits.)

That being said, WE CAN STILL SAVE HER GUYS WE CAN STILL GET HER OUTTA THERE I'M COMING FOR YOU CHAMELEON I'M GONNA DRAFT YOU A PROPER BACKSTORY AND MOTIVE AND YOU'RE GONNA BE THE MOST THREATENING VILLAIN THUS FAR

There's a scene after the climax of the film where all the kung fu masters and previous villains from the spirit realm bow to Po. I'm not going to provide my thoughts on this because I fear I may burst a blood vessel. Good day!

Closing Statements

To put it simply, Kung Fu Panda 4 was my Megamind 2.

The film rejects its predecessors in every way. It really feels as though they brought in somebody with no prior knowledge of the franchise to direct the movie.

It's a film that relies heavily on telling rather than showing — banking on the previous three movies to carry it through the box office.

It's just really disheartening to see studio execs turn one of the best franchises into a safe sequel cash grab and regress every character's development.

Nevertheless. I do adore the chameleon's character design so I might do my own take on her character.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no fairy godmother, there is no tooth fairy, and there is no kung fu panda 4.

#creaman talks to drywall #kung fu panda 4 #spoilers #I'm actually tweaking #sorry I stopped drawing the graphics because the film crushed my soul #you drive me to drink kung fu panda 4 #when the rantsona crosses their arms #hating on main #kfp #discussion #criticism #kfp4 #technically a vent post #i've lost it #the chameleon #zhen #po

[lkaruss]

An extensive KFP 4 rant (spoiler heavy)

So, Kung Fu Panda 4 was… an experience. It took about 3 glasses of whiskey to get through it.

There is so much wrong with this movie, from the pacing to lore breaking issues. However, this is an attempt at trying to formulate my opinions regarding the film, and explain why certain story decisions were detrimental.

My live reaction to the film:

The movie makes it clear right from the start that it was made for very young children. It’s filled to the brim with jokes. If there is a chance to make a joke, then there is a joke. Regardless if it's appropriate or if it hurts the story/lore/characters. In normal circumstances, this would be offset by the fact that the jokes are creative and unpredictable, but they aren’t. I would say most of them can be seen either from a mile away, or they just fall flat. I think I only managed to laugh once or twice when Po’s dads were doing something, but outside of that, the film couldn’t get a chuckle out of me. On the contrary, I found many to be cringe, and some even made me uncomfortable.

But why am I talking so much about the jokes? In the previous Kung Fu Panda films, the jokes were used to break tension. The way the seriousness of the story and the jokes were in harmony is what made those films so memorable and impactful. The story (and films) took itself seriously, but it would sprinkle in jokes that fit the universe, the situation, and most importantly originated from the scene themselves. 

Compared to this, the jokes in KFP 4 are, unoriginal, forced, and usually can be traced back to pop-culture. The last one being important as the original Kung Fu Panda films stayed away from referencing pop-culture as it would break the immersion and authenticity of the setting.

This ties into the ERA that these films depict.

Setting

Based on my limited understanding, the original films have done an excellent job at depicting a world that is supposedly set in an authentic ancient China. From the way names are handled, to symbolisms, everything was well done.

The same cannot be said about Kung Fu Panda 4.

I’m not an expert on chinese culture, but from what chinese friends have told me, „Juniper” city doesn’t sound Chinese at all, or has a meaning in Chinese. It’s essentially a Latin word for a common plant that can be found all over the globe.

The architecture of the city is also questionable. It’s trying to give off a metropolitan feel, which doesn’t fit the ERA. Additionally, the architecture of the buildings is odd. It’s like a mesh of the architecture of several Asian cultures.

Then there are some of the names. „Steve” and „Scott” to be specific. These are the names of some masters and I don’t think I need to explain why these don’t fit the setting at all.

I was constantly questioning what movie I was watching as it was hard to believe this is Kung Fu Panda.

Identity crysis

What made me question the film’s identity the most however is the story.

This 4th film felt like a 1st installment rather than a sequel. It conveniently disregards everything from the previous movies that would contradict its plot and world.

The film immediately starts with Shifu coming out of nowhere and saying Po has to choose a new Dragon Warrior at that very moment. Not only did this feel incredibly random, but it’s also thematically incorrect.

First off, why is Shifu saying this? Why would he want Po to pass on his „title” if it's destiny? Why would he want him to do it now? Why did he not even consider ANYONE FROM THE FIVE and instead got 5 randos as candidates out of the blue?

The issue with the whole premise is incredibly flawed. Let me explain…

Po was chosen as the dragon warrior in the first film. There he proved his worth as such. The key to this is that he is the chosen one because it’s his destiny to deal with threats that no one else can. 

This doesn’t necessarily mean that he is the best. He is the guy who is and will be in the right place at the right time, with the right tools to deal with threats that no one else can deal with. But I digress, it's a different topic.

The point is that Po’s role as the Dragon Warrior is his destiny. The „title” merely represents that role in the world. So you can pass the title to anyone you want, but that does not change the fact that due to destiny, it’s still going to be Po’s role.

This is not just a coincidence though. Po has shown many times that he has a very open view of the world. This is then combined with his traits of being is warm, outgoing, energetic, friendly, goofy, and unorthodox. He represents the Dragon, Yang in the Yin Yang.

All of this is important to understanding why there is only 1 dragon warrior, and that is Po. End of the story.

The film however completely throws all of this out the window and goes with the new Dragon Warrior plot anyway.

That means the new Dragon Warrior is literally right there next to him. Master Tigress.

Now you might be asking why that would be the case.

This film, although throws out all the symbolisms of the previous films, still shouldn’t disregard the other characters that are around Po.

The 2 characters work like the 2 sides of the Yin-Yang, as complementary forces. They are opposite forces that need each other in order to create balance. 

Her influence is extremely necessary throughout the three films, particularly the second and third. It is her companionship, her support, and her constant push against Po’s natural instincts that lead to the best outcome.

Po has achieved a lot of spiritual enlightenment and character development. A lot of it through his own means, but without Tigress he wouldn't be where he is right now.

The Yang is the strongest when it contains the Yin, and the Yin is the strongest when it contains the Yang.

But this dynamic goes both ways. Although we mostly see the effects of this relationship on Po as the films focus on him, it has also changed Tigress. This leads to her opening up more and being more expressive as the films went on, giving us glimpses into the compassionate person she truly is.

While symbolically she is not the dragon, the 4th film establishes that it doesn’t care about the symbolisms or anything that the previous films have established. So naturally a character that compliments Po this well,  should be put into the spotlight and get the character development that she deserves. A character that went through serious changes, but is still left incomplete. You might as well make her the new Dragon Warrior then.

She - altough deserved the title the most even in the first film - lacked the ability to see the world from a perspective that's required to handle certain situations. The Dragon Warrior is way more than just being the perfect warrior. Po's presence was necessary for her to change her attitude. Leading to her slowly becoming her best self. Knowing all of this, it's not such a wild thought that if there has to be a new person who takes over that role, then Tigress would be a great choice for that.

But what is there for her to learn from Po? Spirituality.

Tigress has always been a grounded, by-the-book character. This can be mostly attributed to her upbringing. Her changing and becoming more open, seeing things differently would have been something interesting to explore, and this would also take care of the issue of the „new trilogy” copying the original trilogy’s main character development.

However, the film completely ignores her existence, and the new Dragon Warrior is instead a random Zootopia fox.

The (new) deuteragonist

There is so little to say about Zhen. The best thing I could compare her to is an untreated wooden board. 

It’s rough, full of splinter, and there are many like it. Probably one of the most cliché characters I have seen in a very long time.

She is generic, has an overused „misunderstood fox thief” trope, and a character arc that is so predictable that we all knew what was going to happen just from reading the film’s synopsis at the beginning of 2023.

Her backstory is a copy of Tigress’ except if Shifu was evil. An orphan who is taken in by a master who emotionally neglects her. Said orphan doing what her master wants in order to be loved/accepted by said master. Except that Zhen doesn’t seem to have any attachment or loyalty to the Chameleon. So the „Sad backstory” fails to garner any sympathy towards the character.

Her dynamic with Po is non-existent, which is why their „friendship” is forced. The creators tried so hard to make the two bond, that they forgot to give them time, shared experiences, or anything that would resemble an emotional connection between them. They just quickly went over everything that they have in common in a dialogue and that’s it. There was no prerequisite completed that would make Po care about Zhen or vice versa.

Furthermore, Zhen doesn’t fit the traits that the dragon has, she is not spiritual either or has an open view of the world. So why is she the new one then?

And I wanted to avoid talking about this, but the character is a textbook Mary Sue.

per wikipedia

Zhen is more than capable in a fight to keep up with Po, even though it was not shown why she is so good at fighting. One thing is for sure, she shouldn’t know Kung Fu as she certainly didn’t learn it from her „master” the Chameleon if the film’s plot has any consistency.

She is not only able to manipulate Chi, but also to use Po’s staff without knowing anything about either of those.

A previous character’s role being retconned so that she can take it for herself (See the rant about the Dragon Warrior title above)

She always gets along with characters that matter, getting what she wants. 

No real character drawbacks.

A throwaway character like this, should be a minor support character, not the new main protagonist for crying out loud.

Her inadequacies are so blatant as a character, that no wonder they didn’t even want to have at the very least Tigress in the film as Zhen would immediately become irrelevant to the audience. They put all the spotlight they could on her, at the expense of the story, and in the end achieved nothing in return.

Tell me with a straight face that a character that has an entire movie focusing on them - who still remains a generic, boring character by the end, without any story potential - should be the new main protagonist. The fact that most people don’t even refer to the character by her name, but by the actress’ name Awkwafina should tell you everything about how memorable she is.

Most new characters and animal designs don’t fit the KFP art style.

A good example of this is Zhen.

This is how a fox would look like in Nico Marlet’s KFP style:

And this is what we got:

Sorry, wrong picture. I meant this:

Now, I’m not a character designer, or a professional artist, I only draw a couple of his characters, but I can see that this is way too far off from his work. If not from personal experience, then from the interviews that Nico Marlet himself gave.

The same issue applies to the villain of the film, the chameleon, but atleast with her they tried (somewhat).

The Villain

They say a film is as good, as its villain. This seems to be true in the case of this film too.

The Chameleon sucks.

She has no connection to anyone from the cast. She has no emotional leverage or pressure on the cast. She is not scary or powerful enough to make the audience care about the cast. Her motivation is so terrible, it might be one of the reasons why the Five was kept out of the film because their mere existence single-handedly demolishes her reason for breaking bad.

Outside of this, the character is unoriginal and uninspired. She basically can “lick” people and steal their Kung Fu? I honestly don't know how to put this into words because it doesnt make any lick of sense (I did the funny). If anything it's a budget version of Kai.

They didn’t even bother to give her a name.

What I will say though is that Viola Davis did what she could with what she was given. I found it amusing that she managed to give the chameleon those serious villainous vibes, while at the same time, the character is a joke. If that’s not a testament to the voice actor’s abilities then I don’t know what is. She was definitely wasted on this role.

As for the “returning villains”. I knew they were only there for cash-grab from the moment they said that all of them would return. Shen, is dead. He is not a Kung Fu master, he doesn’t have any connection with Chi, and he hasn’t been banished to the spirit realm. Then there is Kai, whose soul/spirit doesn’t exist anymore.

The only one that could ever return was Tai Lung. However, due to the gravity of his character, if he does return it has to be done perfectly regardless of what direction his character takes.

Now, many of us knew from the start that whatever they were gonna do with him would be bad (I mean there is a massive beef between Tigress and him, and yet she is not even in the film), but I think I speak for all of us when I say that they managed to somehow lowball it even worse than expected.

Basically, the Chameleon brings him back from the spirit realm, licks the Kung Fu out of him, he says like 3-4 lines, and returns to the spirit realm…. what the actual f*ck.

I’m sure I don’t need to go into a 10-paragraph rant on how much storytelling potential was wasted with this, because everyone knows. From reconciling with his dad, to her little sister having a crazy beef with him, to having to accept all the wrongs he did, accepting that he is not the Dragon warrior etc. etc. etc…

There was always only 1 chance of bringing him back. If he came back in a new film or show (again) it wouldn’t have anywhere near the same impact as it should, and it would also feel weird to the audience.

DreamWorks, you had 1 chance to bring this guy back, and you wasted it all on this film.

The non-existent magic system.

Or rather, how this film didn’t care about it at all.

Kung Fu Panda has a relatively grounded world. It’s animals that do Kung Fu based on their natural abilities. The closest thing we got to supernatural was Chi, but it was well handled in the 3rd film in my opinion.

Chi is life force and not magic. This means if you use it, you are exhausting your own life force. This means you would only use it in certain situations, such as healing someone who is mortally wounded, or perhaps to enhance an attack in a desperate fight.

The film doesn’t care about this and handles it as just a regular, inexhaustible force of energy. This can mostly be seen with Po as he uses it whenever he feels like it.

The other type of magic is what the Chameleon is using. It’s not explained, or shown how it works. It’s just there to further progress the plot so that the character can take the Kung Fu from others. (Seriously, how does that work?)

The Kung Fu action

The fight scenes were also a downgrade compared to the previous films.

In KFP 4 they felt less energetic, less grounded, and overall too cartoonish. As an example, Po can jump ridiculously high because… I don’t know, I guess the film just ignores the fact that he is Panda who sometimes even struggles to pull himself up to a rooftop. 

The previous films incorporated the strengths and weaknesses of the animals that fought. Po is not very mobile, but he is very durable, and his fighting style compliments this. However, when he really needs to get somewhere, his lack of mobility is then offset by his friends, the Furious Five.

The Furious Five

Their absence can be severely felt throughout the movie. That is because in their place was a generic character that had forced interactions with Po.

They have great synergy with him, that cannot be replicated, however minor their role might be sometimes. They serve as a great way to fill in those empty spots in the story, and to elevate the villain. Additionally, their fight scenes are entertaining and help to spice up the choreography.

Although they are great companions, if the film really doesn’t have the time to spare for them, then it's understandable if they aren’t around. However the same cannot be said about Tigress.

A Kung Fu Panda film has to have Po and Tigress interact, due to the reasons already explained above regarding her, and also because of the following:

They are direct opposites, which is why their relationship is so entertaining, regardless if you look at them as platonic best friends, or as a potential couple. 

Po is warm, outgoing, brash, energetic, friendly, goofy, and unorthodox, however, he is also serious when needed. While Tigress is introverted, calm, calculated, passive, and intuitive, but deep down she is also a very compassionate and conflicted person that we rarely see. This is then in conjunction with the emotional bond that the previous films have built up between them. These are the reasons why just putting these two in a room is enough to create entertaining scenarios. They add a lot of fun, heartfelt, and emotional moments to every film.

Whenever Po is facing a problem, she is right there to help him through it, whether by talking it through or by beating some sense into him (literally).

She has always been quintessential in Po’s development and motivations.

Memberberries, Memberberries everywhere…

It was jarring to see the film disregarding the existence of the previous movies to justify its plot, but at the same time heavily relied on tropes, and scenes from said films. I’m not kidding when I say that there were moments that were ripped straight out of them.

One of those moments is the standoff between Po and Zhen before the final fight. Zhen wants to stop Po to avoid him getting hurt, but the fight ends with her hugging Po….

Yeah… it was a blatant copy of the prison scene from the 2nd film. However, I think the 2 scenes here perfectly encapsulate why the previous films worked, and why the 4th film doesn’t.

The prison scene in the 2nd film was essentially an emotionally unstable Po being held back by a caring Tigress. Po is so focused on getting to the truth that he forgets the reason they are there, and would put his and his friends’ lives in jeopardy to know what happened to him and his parents. So much so that Po was ready to get beaten to a pulp by Tigress instead of staying down there and waiting until the Five finished the task.

But instead of that happening, Tigress saw how lost Po was, and realized she needed to calm him down to help him understand their situation. And so the person who has always been portrayed as an unfeeling, hardcore, essentially perfect warrior gave Po an unexpected hug and told him he is too important for her to lose him.

This moment has gravity and weight, because of how she is perceived, because of how Po views her, and because Tigress was forced out of her comfort zone to emotionally connect with Po, to help him. It’s a moment of pure comradery and care towards each other that ascends the situation they are in. It’s a moment that in many ways defined their relationship going forward.

In comparison to this, the scene that copied this in the 4th film has none of the emotional underlinings that I discussed, and so it falls flat and feels cringe rather than heartfelt and warm. This is mainly due to Po and Zhen having no connection, bond, or reason to care about each other. But then there is the other element that I discussed when talking about the villain. Po is in no real danger, and it never felt like he was.

Production

From the early leaks, it was blatantly obvious that the production of this film was rushed. Between the artificially forced plot, the generic character designs, the non-existence of the Five, the lack of time, money, commitment, and care was apparent.

However, due to an interview that the Co-director did with some folks on the subreddit discord, light was shed on the nightmare that was the production. I won’t go into details, as everyone should read the Q&A for themselves, but I’ll touch upon a point that was brought up as an excuse for this film turning out the way it did.

(this is a real concept art from the production btw)

Some are saying the reason the film turned like this was due to the budget restriction. That they simply didn’t have the money to have characters like Tigress return due to Angelina Jolie costing a ridiculous amount of money.

But then I have to ask: They had the budget for characters like Shifu (Dustin Hoffman), Po’s dads (James Hong & Bryan Cranston), Tai Lung (Ian McShane), who in the end turned out to be completely irrelevant to the story, but not at the very least for Tigress (Angelina Jolie)?

I’m not saying that you cannot make a story with these characters, because you obviously could make a great one. What I’m trying to point out is if you have such a limited budget, are you really going to blow it all on actors who play characters that essentially add nothing to the story? This is why I call bullshit on them not getting at least Angelina Jolie back to play Tigress. 

Let’s not even mention how you could always recast these characters anyway (although it's clear that the execs are the ones forcing the use of A-list actors).

So for the sake of the argument, let’s come up with a story, that has a reason to exist, has characters that you can do something with, and fits the budget that you are given.

For me - considering that this film was essentially a buddy adventure film - it's an easy task. Just have Po help Tigress explore her origins. I know it's cheesy and basic, but at the very least you have what’s needed for a decent story that would be able to expand on a beloved character, and even help develop Po into a spiritual leader as he has to aid her best friend.

Another idea is what my friend and I had come up with. Have Po bring Lei Lei (now much older, and is a student under him and Tigress) on an adventure. You wouldn’t even need Tigress to appear in the film, because these characters would reference her many times. Lei Lei is a copy of Po in the sense that she wanted to do Kung Fu because she puts Tigress on a pedestal. Because of how influential she was in her life, Lei Lei’s personality is a copy of Tigress’.

I’m just shooting ideas here, but at least these wouldn’t ruin the continuity of the franchise and would be able to navigate the studio limitations that the creators had to face. (from the ones we know of).

"Limitation is the mother of creativity"

KFP 4 was a shallow, artificial story that didn't add anything to the franchise, only degraded it and stripped it of it's remaining value. It's missing the foundations of a KFP film, such as the heart, artistry, and warmth. It's not unexpected as none of the original brains worked on this film.

So what can be expected from this franchise going forward?

Well, not much honestly. It was a weak attempt by DreamWorks to continue the main storyline, not for the sake of the story, but to milk as much money out of it as they can. Even though with a little bit of effort they really could have at least made a good film in the end. However, between the incompetence of the decision makers, the rushed production, and the new people not knowing much about the franchise, that was never going to happen.

The only thing that we can hope for is a spinoff (which is about a decade late at this point), that focuses on Tigress. It’s the only way I see anything for this franchise going forward and hopefully, this film served as a wakeup call for the executives.

Thank you to those who had the patience to read through my inessential rant. Let me know what you guys think about the film.

#kung fu panda #kung fu panda 4 #kfp #kfp 4 #review #rant post

[mimkyx4]

Lore accurate Kung Fu Panda.

Based off of this thing I saw on Insta were I couldn’t get rid of the audio button sorry guys 😔

#kung fu panda #kfp #kfp fanart #lord shen #kfp po #li shan #mr ping #hahahahahwhehehe #real deleted scene