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weneverlearn · 4 months

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From The Distillery to Eternity: A Tale of Lost Recording Tapes, Found on eBay

Red Aunts / Two Tears guitarist/singer Kerry Smith was just putzing around eBay when she saw a tape she made 20+ years ago which was being sold by some rando -- along with lots of tapes by other regional L.A. trash rock acts. A facebook post about it, copious comments, and a surprise good samaritan followed.

KERRY SMITH rockin' with the Red Aunts at a club near The Distillery studio, sometime in 1993.

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As we all regularly ponder what the hell social media is good for, a major piece of proof for the answer of “Nothing” are the comments sections on Facebook. The vitriol and vague “arguments” that can ensue (should you actually still use Facebook) get stupid and depressing very quickly.

But for every 100 like that, there are posts that actually conjure up a stable discussion, interesting connections, and maybe even some useful info.

Case in point, a recent post from Kerry Smith – Red Aunts and Two Tears guitarist/singer and all-around hilarious, life-affirming gal.

Essentially, she came across an eBay listing that was selling off a studio reel tape of an original master recording she made in 2000. After Kerry’s FB post, a number of people clicked on the link and a few realized their own tapes or someone they knew were also listed for sale.

I contacted Kerry about the situation:

“I recorded a bunch of songs there hoping to put them out as the first Two Tears record," said Kerry. "Lesley (Ishino, Red Aunts) and Danny Hole (Necessary Evils) played some drums, and I played everything else. I forgot about this all until this post was brought to my attention, and I feel sad, angry, violated, ripped off. I demo’d them all on my 4-track and worked hard in that studio. I paid for it all myself, no label help. Lots of people offered to buy them for me, and someone thought they were doing a good deed and bought it, though I had the post taken down. I don’t know why it bothers me so much, until Gar wrote from SD saying it’s an intimate and personal experience, and he said do you feel like you’ve been audio art raped? And I do."

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One of the commenters on Kerry’s post was Larry Hardy – head of In The Red Records, the legendary garage rock indie label from L.A. He added a few shocked comments, which led to a comment thread discussion of legality, ownership, old stories, etc.

Given how many bands Hardy has worked with and albums he's released, I thought he’d be one to dig into this strange, ephemeral side of life as a recording musician…

Here's a Two Tears song from that era, though not recorded at The Distillery:

So how did you first hear about this? I assume you saw Kerry's post…

LH: Yes, that’s when I first heard about this. I recognized the writing on the PQ sheets and could tell the tape originated from a recording studio called The Distillery in Costa Mesa, which is where a lot of In The Red records were recorded. I checked the eBay seller’s other auctions and discovered a number of my reels were being sold too.

When you first saw Kerry's post, what was your first kind of emotional response?

LH: My first response was I knew exactly where the tapes came from. A few years ago another person posted a photo of some master tapes he had saying he was trying to find the bands. One of the bands was the Strange Boys, and they contacted me and said the guy had a bunch of ITR masters. I got a hold of the guy and told him my connection to the tapes, and he said he’d gotten the them from Mike McHugh and had been holding them for him, but Mike had gone AWOL. I never did get the tapes back from this guy.

Can you tell me about Mike McHugh and The Distillery, and how tapes from there might’ve ended up in this eBay seller’s possession?

LH: Yeah, [the studio] was owned and operated by Mike McHugh. He was a brilliant engineer with really good gear – the mixing board came from Muscle Shoals! And he was really down to do weird, unconventional things in the studio. He also actually liked the music. He was my go-to guy for many years. Unfortunately a combination of mental illness and substance abuse got the best of him, and he went downhill really fast and REALLY bad. One of the last sessions I had there was for the band Cheap Time, and he flipped out in the middle of the session and pulled a gun on them!

Anyway, he wound up losing his studio, and we had all the tapes still in there. Lots of other bands kept their tapes there too. I know a number of people tried to help him and tried to save all his gear but, sadly, he was beyond help. I guess a bunch of the stuff from the studio wound up in a storage locker and the bill didn’t get paid – so it all went up for auction. That’s how the guy who is selling them on eBay came into possession of them.

Are the things he's posting for sale original sessions or mastered reels?

LH: The reels being sold are the two-inch master reels. The bands would track on two-inch tape and then mix down to half-inch tape and the record would be mastered from that. Many times we would only take the mixed tape with us as that was what we’d master the record from. The studio had a room where they stored tapes, so we figured we’d leave the two-inch reels there for safe keeping.

In a way, the fact that these are original master tapes, pre-mixed/mastered tapes is even worse. These are unmixed tracks, right?

LH: Correct. These tapes being sold are the basic tracks on two-inch tape. You could take these to a studio and remix the record with them. We would mix down to half-inch tape so the versions on those are what you hear on the record. Mastering is a separate step done in a mastering lab. This is why once the mixing was done you kind of felt like the two-inch tapes were done too. They already served their purpose.

Yeah, we all sort of leave things in the rearview mirror once the album comes out, as far as where recordings and master tapes end up.

LH: Yeah, some bands are really good about keeping track of their tapes, and some don’t really care. I know the Cramps kept all of their master tapes, but I don’t think most bands do that. I do still have a bunch of master tapes here at my house. I imagine a lot of people took their tapes with them when their session was done. They’re expensive. I did sometimes, but I was at this studio so often I just figured they were fine where they were… until they weren’t. I didn’t have any place to store them at my house anyway. Two-inch tapes take up a lot of room.

Beyond that particular story, when bands record in studios there is a kind of “gentleman's agreement” – especially amongst indie labels and smaller studios – to at least let the bands or labels know they've got their tapes before just selling them off or tossing them, right? My understanding is, if you paid the studio their fee and paid for the actual tapes, they are your's. Though I suppose if they've been sitting in a studio’s closet for 20 years, maybe there's an argument for ownership on the studio's end?

LH: We did have a general understanding when we left the tapes behind that they’d be looked after by Mike. There was also a window of time when I could’ve gone down there and gotten them all; and I didn’t want to deal with him so I just kind of let it go. The only use they would be is if you wanted to remix the record, which I guess is something that could come up.

After leaving them behind that long ago it makes sense they could end up almost anywhere. Now you have a guy selling them on eBay who doesn’t even know who the bands are.

Under Kerry's post, a person commented: "No judgement! But you own the IP [intellectual property] on these tapes as they are independent recordings. You should reach out to the seller!" Is he right?

LH: That’s true. The eBay seller rightfully owns those tapes, but neither he or anyone else who buys them can do anything with the music without the artist’s permission…. Unfortunately this guy did buy them fair and square. I’m sure Kerry paid for that tape and the recording session, but the tapes were left behind all those years ago, and they’ve been passed around a bunch since. These tapes weren’t stolen, they were left behind. It should’ve been on us to get them back if they were important to us. Of course no one could’ve predicted Mike was going to go off the rails as badly as he did. The eBay seller did nothing wrong or illegal.

Lisa Pallow, Haunted George’s wife, contacted him explaining that two of the tapes were her deceased husband’s music, and that she would like to buy them. And the way he responded to her tells me the guy is an asshole. Really the person at fault for all of this is Mike McHugh.

I'm assuming if Rocket from the Crypt tapes are involved here – there were some for sale in that listing – someone's going to take some shit for this, because they were on a major at one point, though I've no idea which RFTC recordings are on those tapes in that eBay post.

LH: Yeah, that was the one tape I saw in there that I thought would probably go for the most money and also could turn into a hassle for the seller if he hears from [RFTC leader] John Reis or an attorney. I don’t think there would be any legal recourse against this guy though.

John Sellers from ‘90s trash-punk band, the Countdowns, commented on Kerry's post, concerning The Distillery: "It was the original board from Muscle Shoals.....Mike told me that [the Rolling Stones’] Sticky Fingers was recorded through it... it had these red and green square buttons to push... totally sixties mod... he LOVED that board!!! Chris... maybe? And I forget his last name but, he had a studio in the same complex as The Distillery and would tour with JSBX selling merch back in the '90's... he told me the whole story about Mike buying that board... how he flew out and it was sent by train upon purchase and how he accompanied it from start to finish... and how Chris would walk in and Mike would be passed out... not by drugs but by obsessive inspiration and no sleep.... with a clove cigarette in his mouth... under that board... working to make it work.

I THINK that The Countdowns were one of the first to record through that board at The Distillery but... well... memories and remembering shit these days... I always referred to Mike as 'The Mad Scientist. He was an absolute thrill of an experience to work with AND... did you ever hear him play drums? FUCK ME!!!”

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LH: We did have some great times in that studio and before it all went bad. We hailed Mike McHugh as a genius. He was! It’s all very sad to me now. I have some great memories of that place. Andre Williams recorded with the Blues Explosion and Steve Mackay of the Stooges there! Good times.

Any other recording sessions at The Distillery that you remember?

LH: The wildest sessions I remember at that studio involved Andre Williams. He would get pretty drunk over the course of the session, so you had to get him on tape before he was too drunk. He had amazing stories and he was hilarious. He was also brilliant when he was lucid. He had produced records for Motown, and now he’s in Orange County with miscreants like us!

I watched the Hunches vacuum up nails and screws off the floor while Mike recorded it so the obnoxious noise could be included on the band’s cover of the electric eels’ “Accident.” Not many engineers encourage this sort of thing.

I went down to the Distillery for the final night of mixing the Black Lips’ Let It Bloom. The band had booked a show that night at a club directly across the street from the studio. The band left for their show, but I stayed behind with Mike while he continued mixing. I finally went over to the show and went up front. Cole Alexander had urinated into his own mouth, as he was wont to do back then, and spat the mouthful at the audience. I walked in late and went up just in time to get a face full of urine. I was now in business with the Black Lips.

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My fondest memory of that studio is probably when the Necessary Evils recorded their second album. I know we were in there on New Year’s Eve. Those guys were all good friends of mine, as was Mike McHugh. The band didn’t have enough material to fill a full length album and were scrambling to cobble stuff together on the spot. It was a wonder to behold. Every one of those guys was hilarious. R.I.P. Steve Pallow.

I have tons of great memories from this studio. It’s really painful for me to think of Mike ending up like he did. Truly heartbreaking.

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Like any Facebook thread, the mass of names and rushed, emotionally punched-out comments can make for an intriguing read. Hell, a good pal of mine and Kerry’s posted that he put in a bid and would give the tape to her if he won it. He did get a couple of the tapes in the listing, but as Kerry stated earlier here, her tape was taken down after she reported it; and my friend got a cancellation message from eBay.

For Kerry though all this is definitely not legal chit-chat, but a loss of something dear, intense, and loved. It’s the kind of mini-nightmare anyone who’s recorded in a studio and then left it for “safe keeping” always has lurking in the back of their mind.

“I feel like crying all day today because of this,” said Kerry. “I don’t know why. Mike is so talented and I really want these tapes back. I used to hang out there a lot with Ronnie when I lived in Long Beach still. So many happy memories there – grateful for the scene ! Le sigh.”

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After having wrapped up this piece, I heard from Kerry again with a possible happy ending to this story:

“I reported it as stolen, and it was pulled, and some punker dude in Costa Mesa went to get it for me," she explained, "but I didn’t ask him to. I don’t want the [eBay] guy to get the money. So the Good Samaritan kinda fucked it all up, and is supposed to mail it to me. And he paid $150 for it, so now I feel obligated to pay him back. Lots of people offered to buy it for me. And he bought RFTC and Haunted George."

Kerry asked said Samaritan (who shall remain annonymous) how he was able to get the tapes. He responded:

"Hi, thanks for getting back to me. I purchased the tapes directly from the guy... who bids on storage units. I bought a bunch of friends bands tapes and got them back to them. I knew going in that I'd lose money and I'm ok with that. Please let me gift you your tape back. Years ago I lost all of my... master reels in a storage unit that went unpaid while I was in rehab. I hate seeing strangers getting these tapes. Mike McHugh is the one to blame here. Although it’s hard to blame him with all of his mental health and addiction problems. I got my Distillery reels back from him several years ago after he lost the studio.... Anyway... I can get the tape to you or whoever you’d like me to. Larry Hardy maybe. No charge for the tape. Big Red Aunts fan by the way."

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#red aunts #In the Red Records #in the red #Larry Hardy #Haunted George #necessary evils #garage punk #lost recordings #storage units #selling on ebay #the cramps #punk rock #Spotify #Youtube

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viddybiblio · 17 days

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Kid Congo & the Pink Monkey Birds (ft. Alice Bag) - Wicked World

#youtube #kid congo & the pink monkey birds #alice bag #wicked world #that delicious vice #in the red records

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wamnak · 15 days

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Fantastic surprise today! The new Redd Kross album went up for pre-order, announced a summer tour, and they released a new video today! They’ve been my favorite American band for quite some time now. Also looking forward to the book about them that’s coming out in the fall and hopefully eventually seeing the documentary that making the rounds at film festivals!

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#Redd Kross #Jeff McDonald #Steve McDonald #dale crover #melvins #Astrid McDonald #in the red records #Youtube #Spotify

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goodbysunball · 1 year

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1/4 Dead In 2023

It's a really bad time to try and cut back on buying music; here's four reasons why, and I've still got another eight or so waiting in the wings. Suck on these chicken wings like Steve Buscemi in Ghost World and I'll bring you another basket when you think you're through.

Cheater Slicks, Ill-Fated Cusses (In the Red)

The world's greatest active rock 'n roll band is back with their first studio LP in 11 years. Cheater Slicks could have very easily hung it up by now, especially following the tragic death of drummer Dana Hatch's son, but some mysterious impulse keeps the brothers Shannon and Dana Hatch (joined here by James Arthur on bass) churning after all these years. There are no other bands that can play garage rock with the abandon that Cheater Slicks seem to nail album after album, and their return to In the Red is possibly their best yet. The comfortable intro to "The Nude Intruder" soon picks up speed and careens headfirst into some solos that are the best I've heard since maybe Mordecai's College Rock. From there the band proceeds to lean heavily into guitar worship, sounding as paranoid and grimy as ever, barely-controlled outbursts of scuzz drenching "Fear" and "Flummoxed by the Snafu." Where previous albums seemed to opt for a sort of ballad to close each side, the band decides to try out "Lichen" to end side one, a feedback-laden stumble through the wake of "The Gift" but even more seasick and desperate. The band's hardly left behind the ballads from albums past; "Garden of Memories" and "Far Away Distantly" are gruff and affecting like the best of the Slicks' quieter moments. My favorite track here is "Coming Back to Me," which oscillates from Hatch's pounding drums and foam-mouthed shouts to zen-like group vocals repeating the title, and erupts in a ferocious guitar solo. It's songs like "Coming Back to Me" that show why Cheater Slicks have single-handedly rejuvenated garage rock and stand alone at the top of the heap. In a time where I've been leaning toward more abstract and indecipherable sounds, it feels really good to be leveled by a no frills rock 'n roll album, something familiar but wholly fresh, without pretension and effortlessly memorable. Cheater Slicks, now and forever. Highest recommendation; get yourself a copy post-haste, and maybe go see 'em blow the younger acts off the stage in a rare live appearance at Gonerfest this year.

Equipment Pointed Ankh, From Inside the House (Bruit Direct Disques)

The latest and greatest from this loose Louisville, KY collective, bringing some welcome cohesion to their brand of off-kilter omnivorous rock deconstruction. I've always found Equipment Pointed Ankh interesting, spiritually akin to fellow Kentuckians Sapat, but their albums can feel cluttered and overlong; on Without Human Permission, something like "Blue Folding Room" bowls me over, but then I've traversed so far by the end of side one that I'm disoriented and exhausted. Could have been a case of too many cooks/too many ideas, but whatever it was has been ironed out on From Inside the House, brought to us by the fine tastemakers at Bruit Direct Disques. "Rubber Slacks" snaps into gear at the front, but the song devolves into a noisy coda, feedback and droning synths fighting to wrest control of the song from the rhythmic backbone. What felt like genre-hopping exercises on previous records has coalesced into a no less confusing but exhilarating whole; off-kilter tunefulness emerges from rudimentary drumbeats, drone and jazz coexist with minimalist beats and modern classical. What emerges from the speakers isn't really as heady as that sounds, though: From Inside the House fits easily as background music and rewards close listening alike through it's rich, full production. The highlight for me is the drumless, airy seven-minute title track, which coupled with Jenny Rose's spoken lyrics brings to mind Cosey Fanni Tutti's "Time to Tell." It's a surprisingly arresting, moving track from a collective that seems mostly hellbent on upending genre distinctions with a permanent smirk. "I'm looking for something else," Rose says, and across seven tracks and 35 minutes, it sounds like EPA's found it on From Inside the House, a surprising early favorite record of 2023. Buy not only for the music, but the screenprinted jacket and Bill Nace artwork, too. Another left-of-center gem from Bruit Direct Disques.

Ustalost, Before the Glinting Spell Unvests (Gilead Media)

This was technically released at the tail-end of 2021, but I've only received my copy of the LP this month, and it's one well worth a year's patience. Ustalost is a side project from the Will Skarstad, one of the brothers behind Yellow Eyes, but there's not much to differentiate the two projects. It's nominally Will Skarstad's solo compositional outlet, though his brother, Sam, gets credits for the lyrics and production. The release, Ustalost's second, states that the project "has always been an exercise in indulgence," and that's probably as good of a descriptor as you're gonna get; it's black metal drizzled with the Skarstads' slowly twinkling guitar lines, drenched in Gregorian chant, keyboards and synthesizers straight out of the first wave of funeral doom (Thergothon comes to mind). I never much cared for keyboards in metal, but they're worked in nicely here: something like the jittery line at the start of "White Marble Column Air" adds to disorienting effect rather than distracts. The bass and drums are up front in the mix, this anchor allowing the record to violently lob between sickly sweetness and pummeling madness, something the opener "Enough Glass Will Cast a Shadow" deftly displays. Before the Glinting Spell Unvests, like The Spoor of Vipers before it, feels as approachable and lush as black metal could be while maintaining the icy, sharp aggression of the best Scandinavian forebears. It's a credit to the songwriting of Will Skarstad to maintain that delicate balance without succumbing to cheesy fist-pumping choruses or invoking war as a crutch; the psychedelic psychosis and decadence are vivid enough to warp one's reality. Fantastic record, one that pushes the envelope in exciting new ways without concessions. Let's hope there's not another seven-year wait for the next one.

Witness K, s/t (ever/never)

Cured Pink, one of several projects from Andrew McLellan, was and probably remains one of the most difficult and misunderstood bands from the contemporary Australian underground. The project's new/no wave laced with sharp commentary and wry humor is admittedly a tough sell, but a deep dive into their catalog, especially their LPs, is a worthwhile endeavor. Seems that McLellan may have retired the Cured Pink name for now, shifting to the gravely serious Witness K, pairing up again with NYC's ever/never records to once more challenge even the most seasoned listeners. On the self-titled debut, the band displays stunning restraint, creating a dour atmosphere befitting Carla dal Forno or Tindersticks. Vocals are hushed and often spoken, and even leaning in closely doesn't really allow me to crack the meaning of it all. The lyrics, or "poetry" as the credits on the release state, are obscured beneath a lush bed of single chord guitars, flute, accordion and a smattering of keys, and feels like the soundtrack to a Kurosawa film or dimly lit noir story bathed in shadows. It's a record that seeps into and takes control of the room, arresting even in its silences, moving carefully and speaking thoughtfully. I'm reminded, in spirit at least, of the Gerogerigegege's left-turn >(decrescendo) or the American Jobs' overlooked Carne Levare, music wielding a quiet power. But Witness K never feels fragile despite sounding gossamer-thin at points; the bass-rich production keeps things sturdy and churning, as on album highlights "Scream Across the Low Fence" and "Thank You, Harold." Notes linger in the air, billowing smoke refracted in late-day sunlight, sunlight that can't be enjoyed because of yet another man-made environmental disaster. Whatever's happening, it's grim. Witness K have made a record acknowledging native land that seems like it could actually do something about it, not just paying lip service to a complicated issue. Stunning, brilliant record; Witness K feels like a modern classic already. Between this and last year's Kilynn Lunsford LP, ever/never's swinging for the fences. Time to break out the binoculars and pay attention while this seasoned vet serves up taters at the dish.

#Cheater Slicks #Equipment Pointed Ankh #Ustalost #Witness K #In the Red Records #Bruit Direct Disques #Gilead Media #ever/never records

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senorboombastic · 2 months

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This One Song… Charles Moothart on Hold On

Tell you what – we love hearing from artists when things go right. We equally love hearing from artists when things go dreadfully wrong. A song that was a piece of piss, written in 20 minutes? Or years in the making and a bastard to write? Whether it’s a song that came together through great duress or one that was smashed out in a short amount of time, we’re getting the lowdown from some of our…

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#Birthday cake for breakfast #Black Holes Don&039;t Choke #CFM #Charles Moothart #Dichotomy Desaturated #Fuzz #In The Red Records #Little Egg #Soft Crime #Soundtrack to an Empty Room #The Fire I Call Home #Ty Segall #Ty Segall’s Freedom Band

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thejoyofviolentmovement · 3 months

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New Video: Meatbodies Share Groovy "Billow"

New Video: Meatbodies Share Groovy "Billow" @meatbodies @another__side__

Over the course of the past decade or so, Los Angeles-born and-based singer/songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Chad Ubovich has developed a reputation as a highly-sought after collaborator and mainstay of his hometown’s fertile music scene: Ubovich had a lengthy stint playing guitar in Mikal Cronin‘s backing band. He currently plays bass in Fuzz with Ty Segall and Charlie Moothart. And he’s…

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#Billow #In the Red Records #Magic Garden/Brian Lucey #Market Hotel #Meatbodies #Meatbodies 333 #Meatbodies Billow #Meatbodies Flora Ocean Tiger Bloom #Meatbodies Hole #music #music video #New Video #psych rock #singer/songwriter #video #Video Review #Video Review: Billow

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caruliaa · 1 year

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staff still hasn't given me polls, what should i do?

🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪 their moms 69%

🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪 their dads 31%

grace image os i get to look at her

#edit: edited the og post to what i want but to set the record straight i edited to the post to be mathematically correct right after the #first person pointed it out which was like ten mins after i posted the og post. now fuck offf !!!!! the rest of the tags r from the og post #for some reason i feel very immature making your mom jokes about tumblr staff. which i shldnt !!#bc they suck nd they still havent given me polls. but i ig i feel imature bc it a your mom joke 😭 but still i tihnk its kinda funny #EDIT: edited the post to what i want bc yall were getting annoying . but to set the record straight i edited to post to be mathematically #also its *mum* not mom okay i am NOT !! an american . but if i say mum everyone will j be like 'omg british' like i dont know i am #anyway. i want polls please. give me the rigght to force my mutuals chose between the most inane things #also i tihnk it wld b cool for the cs weekly blog. like w each episode #i cld do a poll of like. out of five stars what do u think of this ep #and it wld b a cool thing of which eps r ppls faves #also i cld have like. whose ur fave in team red whos ur fave in acme etc #id prob just have to go with vile faculty bc theres more than 10 ppl in vile. and ppl wld kill me if i didnt include nel the ell or whoever #it wld b fun !!!#oh btw csweekly thats i thing i want to start. prob on uhhh the 11th of feb ill post abt it more but its basically #a tag/blog for watching cs one ep a time watching one ep every saturday #ya !! :3 #flappy rambles #inaccessible #ask to tag #(<- idk. just in case)

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daiwild · 1 year

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changing room mishap

Kons a lil confused but he will ALWAYS get pissed at bad guys hurting his friends

#tim: surgery scars kon: oh like ur spleen removal #tim: well the spleen thing was unintentional #could work w bart aswell #kon: tf is a mastectomy im 5 yrs old #i kept laughing at the last panel so i decided to not delete these doodles #hopefully im not the only one who finds this amusing but knowing my track record...#tim drake #conner kent #superboy #dc red robin #dc fanart #timkon #tw stab mention #archiving eeblydeebly #daiwild

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lilacsandlillies · 2 months

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I was going through the anti Jason Todd tag because I hate myself and want to understand where people who dislike him are coming from and one thing I kept seeing was annoyance at Jason fans who claim that Jason is female coded and realized that the term “female coded” might not be the best term to describe what we mean.

A female coded character in literature and media typically means a character that has no specified gender or otherwise does not have a gender but is obviously meant to be a stand in for a woman or female. Kind of like how Starfire has no specified race (due to being an alien) but is still obviously black coded based on the way she’s drawn and treated by the narrative.

This is slightly different than what we mean when saying that Jason is female coded. It’s not that Jason is literally supposed to be a stand in for a female character, it’s that the way a lot of characters treat him and a lot of the tropes used on him are things that usually saved for female characters, not big buff men like Jason.

To start with, being Robin is narratively (or at least was) very similar to being a woman in a story. Robin is a role made to complement Batman (who we all know is basically the ultimate male power fantasy). Robin’s role is to be an accessory to Batman. Robin can be smart, but not smarter than Batman. Robin can be strong, but not stronger than Batman. Hell, Robin is often kidnapped and used as a literal damsel in distress, a role often regulated for women as a whole.

What sets Jason apart from the other robins (except for Steph) in this regard is that they were allowed to be characters outside of Batman. Dick might not have been the “man” of the story when he’s with Bruce, but when he’s with the teen titans suddenly he’s the smart one who has all the answers. Jason’s Robin was never really allowed this.

Then we get to the most, controversial, part of Jason’s female coding. The fact the he was effectively fridged. Fridging is usually only referred to as frigding if it’s a female character, but Jason’s death checks pretty much all the other boxes needed. An incredibly brutal death that was more about Bruce’s feelings on it than Jason himself.

This is especially apparent when compared to the other Bat characters. For all the female coding, the only other Robin to actually be fridged was Steph (and we all know about the misogyny surrounding her death). Barbara was also kind of fridged during the killing Joke. The only female character to escape this is Cass (to my knowledge). When you look at it through this lens, the fact that the only other characters to be permanently damaged like this for Bruce’s story are female, it’s not hard to see where the idea that Jason is female coded comes from.

You can even find this in Jason’s origin story. Poor little orphan is saved by benevolent billionaire is a role usually saved for little girls, like in Annie.

Despite what you might think, this even continues after Jason’s revival. Jason is still used less as a character and more as a motivation for Bruce. He’s regularly called emotional and hysterical (terms usually used to refer to women).

Jason is first and foremost a victim. A role performed by women in most media. Men are expected to be stoic and “rise above” the things done to them as to not be victims, as continuously shown by the way characters like Nightwing are not allowed to be effected by the horrific things they go through. The fact that Jason is shown the be angry, and sad, and emotional, constantly, and the fact that he’s punished and vilified for it puts him in a place much more similar to a female character.

There’s a reason that so many Jason fans (that like him for a reason past “antihero with guns”) are female. For most characters, when you swap their genders there would be a pretty clear and big difference in the way their story takes place. If you swap Jason’s gender, the story takes place identically.

A lot of this is best shown in men’s reactions to Arkham Knight’s version of Jason. In that game, Jason is similarly angry and emotional, albeit for slightly different reasons. He is also still unmistakably a victim. You’d think the men playing would like him. After all he’s a big cool angsty guy with a lot of guns and muscles. Instead, a lot of men’s thought that he was whiny. That his feelings were annoying.

There’s also something to be said about how his autonomy is regularly undermined by Bruce (specifically in Gotham war) and how his decisions and feeling are constantly treated as if they’re worth less than Bruce’s, but that’s a discussion for another day.

#jason todd #dc #red hood #for the record this is probably all unintentional on the writers part #and people who feel differently about Jason’s character and the role he represents are (mostly) completely valid #a lot of what I said honestly probably plays in a lot into the obvious classism surrounding his character

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