#I ship Sansa with every woman and also the Hound for some reason | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

butterflies-dragons · 4 years

Note

oh j0nryas know about balticon report, they just think he was being coy (asdjkahs same delusion with s/ns/ns), that he was rambling bc he was trying not to give spoilers. at this point he could go on live and say "no dumbasses there is no j0nrya, there won't be, there never was" (same w pedoships) and they will all be like "omg it is definitely happening in twow, look at how he's trying to divert our attentions, we are onto you george hehehe"

OK let’s review, again, chronologically, all the times that GRRM was being coy and trying to divert his readers’ attention regarding the ships you mentioned:

The “It could be very different things to each of those involved” Alternative: “Mind you!”

JUNE 24, 1999 THE HOUND AND SANSA

Moreta12: I understand, I’ve heard your opinion on that. In ACOK, it seems that the relationship between the Hound and Sansa had romantic undertones. Is that true?

GeoRR: Well, read the book and decide for yourself.

Moreta12: I’ve read the book and I’ve debated those particular scenes with a few others. Half say that it’s romantic and half say it’s platonic. I’ve taken the romantic stance.

GeoRR: It could be very different things to each of those involved, mind you

Moreta12:Yes, but it seem like evidence points towards romantic undertones. Will the Hound appear later?

GeoRR: Yes, the Hound will be in STORM OF SWORDS. In fact, I just finished writing a big scene with him.

[Source]

The “Why are you asking me about Sansa’s sexuality?” Alternative 1: “Are you really asking me when your fave male adult character can fuck a girl, 15 years younger than him, without guilt?” Alternative 2: “Why are you so gross?”

OCTOBER 05, 1999 AGE OF SEXUAL RELATIONS IN WESTEROS

The nature of the relationship between Sandor and Sansa has been a hot topic on Revanshe's board. Sansa's youth has been one focus of the discussion. What is the general Westerosi view as to romantic or sexual relationships involving a girl of Sansa's age and level of physical maturity?

A boy is Westeros is considered to be a "man grown" at sixteen years. The same is true for girls. Sixteen is the age of legal majority, as twenty-one is for us. However, for girls, the first flowering is also very significant... and in older traditions, a girl who has flowered is a woman, fit for both wedding and bedding. A girl who has flowered, but not yet attained her sixteenth name day, is in a somewhat ambigious position: part child, part woman. A "maid," in other words. Fertile but innocent, beloved of the singers. In the "general Westerosi view," well, girls may well be wed before their first flowerings, for political reasons, but it would considered perverse to bed them. And such early weddings, even without sex, remain rare. Generally weddings are postponed until the bride has passed from girlhood to maidenhood. Maidens may be wedded and bedded... however, even there, many husbands will wait until the bride is fifteen or sixteen before sleeping with them. Very young mothers tend to have significantly higher rates of death in childbirth, which the maesters will have noted. As in the real Middle Ages, highborn girls tend to flower significantly earlier than those of lower birth. Probably a matter of nutrition. As a result, they also tend to marry earlier, and to bear children earlier. There are plenty of exceptions.

[Source]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 1” Alternative: “The much more important lapse in memory that was promised”

JUNE 26, 2001 SF, TARGARYENS, VALYRIA, SANSA, MARTELLS, AND MORE

[GRRM is asked about Sansa misremembering the name of Joffrey’s sword.]

The Lion’s Paw / Lion’s Tooth business, on the other hand, is intentional. A small touch of the unreliable narrator. I was trying to establish that the memories of my viewpoint characters are not infallible. Sansa is simply remembering it wrong. A very minor thing (you are the only one to catch it to date), but it was meant to set the stage for a much more important lapse in memory. You will see, in A STORM OF SWORDS and later volumes, that Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her the night he came to her bedroom… but if you look at the scene, he never does. That will eventually mean something, but just now it’s a subtle touch, something most of the readers may not even pick up on.

[Source]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 2” Alternative: “It doesn’t mean what you think it means”

OCTOBER 05, 2002 SANSA’S MEMORY

[Note: This mail has been edited for brevity.]

… this is an inconsistency with ASoS more than an outright error. In ASoS, Sansa thinks that the Hound kissed her before leaving her room and King’s Landing. In ACoK, no kiss is mentioned in the scene, though Sansa did think that he was about to do so.

Well, not every inconsistency is a mistake, actually. Some are quite intentional. File this one under “unreliable narrator” and feel free to ponder its meaning

[Source]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 3” Alternative: “Better ask yourself about Sansa’s psychological state”

NOVEMBER 27, 2007 GEORGE R.R. MARTIN ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS

Here’s a really particular question (which I realize means it probably won’t get asked in a general interview): In A Storm of Swords, there is a chapter early on where Sansa is thinking back to the scene at the end of A Clash of Kings when The Hound came into her room during the battle. She thinks in the chapter about how he kissed her, but in the scene in A Clash of Kings, this actually didn’t happen. Was that a typo or something? —Valdora

GRRM: It’s not a typo. It is something! [Laughs] ”Unreliable narrator” is the key phrase there. The second scene is from Sansa’s thoughts. And what does that reveal about her psychologically? I try to be subtle about these things.

[Source]

The “The answer is No” Alternative: NO!

APRIL 15, 2008 FUTURE MEETINGS, POVS, ARYA’S ROLE, EASTERN LANDS, AND ASSASSINS

[Will Sandor and Sansa meet?]

Why, the Hound is dead, and Sansa may be dead as well. There’s only Alayne Stone.

[Source]

The “He’s a lot more dangerous than he is romantic” Alternative: “BUT THERE IS SAM!”

AUG. 21ST, 2009 AS SER JORAH MORMONT… - NOT A BLOG

weltraummuell: The Hound Oh please don’t cast an old guy for the Hound, his scenes with Sansa are so romantic and erotic, I couldn’t bear if it’d feel creepy all of a sudden. Well, that’s me making demands. LOL

GRRM: Re: The Hound Old guy? No, but… the Hound is still a whole lot older than Sansa, and was never written as attractive… you know, those hideous burns and all that… he’s a lot more dangerous than he is romantic.

kestrana: The Hound Yeah its a “girl always wants the bad boy” kind of thing although Sansa seems to pull something else out of him. It feels so wrong sometimes but I want to see them together again tee hee.

weltraummuell: The Hound Hehe, George, maybe you didn’t intend it, but he turned out to be a very erotic character to female readers. Especially since he’s mutilated and dangerous. Makes him unpredictable and vulnerable which is the most explosive aphrodisiac for a girl’s fantasy. ;)

weltraummuell: The Hound And I know from discussions on other board other women feel just the same about Sandor. He’s an absolute favourite with the ladies!

halfbloodmalfoy: The Hound LOL, you’re such a man. To many of us women, dangerous *is* attractive.

GRRM: The Hound But no one has any love for poor old Sam Tarly, kind and smart and decent and devoted…

[Source]

The “That’s interesting...” Alternative: “They are deeply troubled individuals, Harriet”

22 JUNE 2012 SWORD & LASER VIDEO PODCAST

GRRM: I am sometimes surprised by the reactions, of women in particular, to some of the villains. The number of women over the years who have written to me that their favorite characters are Jaime Lannister or Sandor Clegane [the Hound] or Theon Greyjoy… All of these are deeply troubled individuals with some very dark sides, who have done some very dark things. Nonetheless, they do draw this response, and quite heavily, I think, in the case of some of them, from my female readers in particular.

Veronica Belmont: I’m a big fan of the Hound, myself, actually.

Tom Merritt: Of Sandor? Really?

Veronica Belmont: Yeah, the Hound… Maybe it’s not because I feel any compassion towards them, I’m not really sure what the attraction is. Ah, I’m not going to call it attraction, actually. Let’s just say it’s a fascination, perhaps.

GRRM: [Chuckles] Well, I mean, fascination is one thing, but some of these letters indicate that there really is like a romantic attraction going on there. And I do know there’s all these people out there who are, as they call themselves, the “San/San” fans, who want to see Sandor and Sansa get together at the end. So that’s interesting, too.

Tom Merritt: The TV show has sort of played with that a little, and probably stoked those fires.

GRRM: Oh, sure. And I’ve played with it in the books. There’s something there, but it’s still interesting to see how many people have responded to it.

[Source]

The “I guess I don’t understand women” Alternative: “I'm shook”

JUNE 23, 2015 GRRM Q&A AT THE SCIENCE FICTION BOOKSTORE IN STOCKHOLM

Question: “Is there any fan reactions that you have been surprised by, like is there a character that’s more popular than you thought or have people been shocked by something you didn’t think we would be shocked at?”

GRRM: “I’m reasonably certain what people will be shocked by. I knew that the Red Wedding would provoke a big reaction and it did. I was pretty confident that, you know, throwing Bran out the window and then killing Ned in the first book would get reactions, and indeed they did. All of those worked exactly the way it did to the extent that things that have surprised me, they tend to be smaller things. I guess I… Maybe I should not have, I don’t know. How do I phrase this without getting myself in terrible trouble… I guess I don’t understand women, but I was definitely, you know, way back when, surprised by the number of women who reacted positively to characters like Theon and the Hound as dashing, romantic figures. The san/san kind of thing took me by surprise, I must admit, and even more so the women who, and there are some, who really like Theon. So that surprised me.”

[Source]

The “Comfort level of femininity” Alternative: “That's not a reference for romance”

MAY 29, 2016 BALTICON REPORT

My con friend asked about the Jon/Arya relationship again and brought her (impressive) Game book that had all of her references marked out with little flags. She brought up the Ygritte connections to Arya that Jon saw in her. George did not directly answer yes or no if there would be anything romantic between the two.

George did say, despite what readers see as clues to a romantic relationship between Jon/Arya in the books themselves, he did not confirm this so easily but inferred that what Jon saw in Ygritte was a comfort level of femininity. <<< She and I obviously discussed these comments after the meeting and this was the general feeling.

My con friend was referring to George explaining Jon’s perception: GRRM replied, “You know, I don’t think it’s a reference for that [for romance]. It’s a reference to a certain physical type, and a certain indication of what Jon finds admirable. It’s like someone who reminds you of, you know… Other people might be put off by this, you know, hair that looks like small rodents have been living in there. It doesn’t put him off because he is used to that.”

The “I was making up shit.” Alternative: "I wish I can delete that"

MAY 29, 2016 BALTICON REPORT

After the Coffee Talk just outside the room:

My Con Friend asked about Arya and Jon again. This time GRRM gave some very pointed replies:

GRRM finished (in the hallway now) by saying that he “wished some past things weren’t such strong foreshadowing,” and that he, “wished some new things had stronger foreshadowing then.”

Friend: Ok, if you foreshadowed something in the first book, like, really cleverly hidden, would you then follow through on that hint? For sure?..

GRRM: “Well, this goes with what I said before, the story changes and expands as I write. I wish I was able to go back and make revised drafts, but that’s not going to happen.”

Here is a transcript of the outline discussion and Jon/Arya portion of the coffee talk:

[question about Jon/Arya]

GRRM: “Alright, you’ve thought about this more than I have. I mean it’s simple, Jon is very fond of Arya. They were the two odd birds in the Stark family nest, here. They didn’t quite fit in with the others, they look like each other, they both had the brown hair, you know, as opposed to the auburn hair of Sansa and Bran and Rickon and Robb. So there was always that closeness between them. And, you know, Arya didn’t mind that Jon was a bastard, and Jon didn’t mind that Arya was a tomboy, so there is that closeness there.”

[question about Jon comparing his lover to his sister]

GRRM: “If he did it, uhm… I began writing these books in 1991, and, uhm, I worked on it in 91 and then I got a tv play, so I put it aside to really work on ‘Doorways’ tv pilot and did a tv show in 92-93. In 94 I returned to it [the books] and worked on it. You know, up till then, in my career as a writer, I’d always written the entire book before I opted for sale. That’s unusual. Most writers do chapters and an outline. They write a few chapters, they outline the rest of the book, give that to the publisher and the publisher says ‘oh okay, I’ll take that’.

“As some of you may have noticed, those who have been paying very, very carefully attention, I’m not good with deadlines. And, uh, and I’m not good with outlines, either. I always hated outlines. So with Fevre Dream and with Armageddon Rag and with Dying of the Light and all my novels, I wrote the entire book. I didn’t do chapters and outline. I sat down, I wrote a whole book, and I sent it to my agent and said ‘Look, here’s a whole book, and it’s finished’. That way I ran into no deadline, it was finished before it even went on the market. And it worked well for me. And my initial thought was to do this the same way, but what happened, you know, was in 1994, uhm, when I returned to it and I’m working on it and I’m very enthused about it and I say ‘I really wanna write these Game of Thrones books as the next part’. But I was still in Hollywood and I’d just lost all this groundwork on ‘Doorways’, I was still in… The studios and networks still wanna work with me, so I’m getting other offers, like ‘We want you to write this movie’, ‘we want you to do another tv pilot’. And, you know, I took a couple of them and was ‘Oh god, I gotta have to put the book away again’. Cause I have no deadline [for the book]. You know, when you think Hollywood, they will give you a deadline, you know, they say ‘here, son, write this movie, we want it in three months’.

“So, I said ‘look, if I wanna get back to being a novelist, I’m gonna have to sell this even though it’s not finished’. So I had my 200 pages of Game of Thrones at that point, but they wanted outline. I said ‘I don’t do outlines. I don’t know what’s gonna happen, I figure it out as I go. And that’s how I always did it.’ No, we had to have an outline. So I wrote two pages, a two-page thing about what I thought would happen. It’ll be a trilogy, it’ll be three books, Game of Thrones, the Dance with Dragons, and Winds of Winter. Those were the three window titles. And, uh, it’ll be three books and this’ll happen, and this’ll happen, and this’ll happen. And I was making up shit.

“And I had thought that those two pages were long forgotten, because, of course, the books did sell. They sold in the United States and in Great Britain, both. They sold for enough money that I didn’t have to take any more Hollywood games. So I was able to say ‘no’ around. I had a few less [?] to wind up in in 94 and 95. Once I had, I said ‘no, I don’t want any more movies or tv shows, I’m going to write these books now’. And I started writing the books. And in the process, I pretty much disregarded the outline. The characters took me off in entirely different directions. So, for 20 years I had forgotten that that two-page thing even existed. And then someone in my British publisher, HarperCollins, they got a new office building, uh, brand new offices, and new conference rooms, big conference rooms that they decorated with books and stuff like that. And they named the conference rooms after the writers, so one of the conference rooms [?], and they put up these plastic display cases, including the outline. The two-page outline, yes. [?], they didn’t ask my permission, they just put it up. And in that two-page outline, Jon and Arya become a romantic item.”

“You know, I don’t think it’s a reference for that [for romance]. It’s a reference to a certain physical type, and a certain indication of what Jon finds admirable. It’s like someone who reminds you of, you know… Other people might be put off by this, you know, hair that looks like small rodents have been living in there. It doesn’t put him off because he is used to that.””

[someone says they have 5 minutes left]

“You know, I was pretty pissed that that outline got out there. It should not have happened. Outlines and letters like that are meant only for the eyes of the editor. They shouldn’t go on public display. And, uh, they also [?] my papers on [?], all my papers and correspondence. You know, I’ve been sending that stuff there for years, and it’d be, you know, available for future scholars or whatever, just like the papers of many other writers. Somehow, in the back of my head I was like ‘yeah, 20 years after I’m dead some scholar will go in and find them’. They’re going in right now!” ”

[question if he is still going with the 1991 ending]

“Yes, I mean, I did partly joke when I said I don’t know where I was going. I know the broad strokes, and I’ve known the broad strokes since 1991. I know who’s going to be on the Iron Throne. I know who’s gonna win some of the battles, I know the major characters, who’s gonna die and how they’re gonna die, and who’s gonna get married and all that. The major characters. Of course along the way I made up a lot of minor characters, you know, I, uhm…Did I know in 1991 how Bronn, what was gonna happen to Bronn? No, I didn’t even know there’d be a guy named Bronn. I was inventing him along the way when I was writing, ‘Okay, he gets kidnapped. Let’s see, there are a couple sellswords there, their names are Fred and Bronn’.

“It was actually Bronn and Chiggen, and then one of them dies, I flipped a coin ‘okay, who dies? Chiggen dies, cause his name is stupid. Bronn is a better name, so I’ll keep Bronn’. And then Bronn became quite an interesting character and plenty of these characters take on minds of their own. They push to the front till you [?] speech and you think of a cool line and you give it to Bronn because he’s trying to talk, and now Bronn is somebody who says something cool. [?]. That’s how characters grow on you. “So a lot of the minor characters I’m still discovering along the way. But the mains-”

[question if he knows Arya’s and Jon’s fates]

“Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah.”

This report appears in the following sources:

fattest leech of ice and fire blog [Source 1]

asoiaf.westeros.org [Source 2]

westeros.org [Source 3]

The “Unreliable narrator - Part 4” Alternative: “I think I had enough...”

DECEMBER 2016 ASKING GEORGE R.R. MARTIN ABOUT SAN/SAN

My question is regarding Sansa Stark. Her sexuality has evolved through every book and yet the memory that seems to stick the more with her in this regard is the night of the Blackwater. So I was wondering if you can expand on your view on what this is, since as before that night her interactions with Sandor Clegane weren't really physical.

The night of the Blackwater, yes. Ahhh... Well, I'm not going to give you a straight answer on that hahaha... Uhmmm, but I would say that ahhh... you know a television show and a book each has its own strengths and weaknesses; there a re tools that are available to me as a novelist, that are not available to people doing a television show. And of course there are tools available to them, that are not available to a novelist, I mean they can lay in a soundtrack, they can do special effects, they can do amazing things that I can't do, I just have words on paper. What can I do, well I can use things like the internal narrative, I can take you inside of territories... thoughts, which you can't do in a TV show... Ahhh... You just have the words they speak, you see them from outside because the camera is external, while prose is internal, and I have the device known as "unreliable narrator"... Ahhh... Which again, they don't have. So, think about those two aspects when you consider that night of the Blackwater.

[Source]

Most of these questions make me think of Nabokov having to clarified, regarding Lolita, that he didn’t write a romance..........

So there’s that, everyone can draw their own conclusions. God knows that in this fandom: “We look up at the same stars, and see such different things.”

Thanks for your message.

#anon ask #grrm #jon and arya #sansa deserves better #the things i have to read...#poor george #poor nabokov

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bighound-littlebird · 4 years

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I'm really not sure how to word it but do you think there's a possibility that a romantic storyline could happen w sansa and harry? (like sansa being able to change harry's ways)

I'm sorry to tell you, but I'm not really hopeful that Harry will even survive the tourney.

And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt.

Why? Because Sansa's wishes and prayers have a habit of coming true.

About Joffrey:

Let his sword break and his shield shatter, Sansa thought coldly as she shoved out through the doors, let his courage fail him and every man desert him.

The Hound:

Mother, save him, she prayed, and gentle the rage inside him.

Janis Slynt:

Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head.

Morros Slynt

I hope he falls and shames himself, she thought bitterly.

Alayne/Sansa's average isn't a hundred percent but it happens often enough that readers can see that she definitely has something uncanny going on.

Another reason: Harry is given a late introduction and very little backstory; none of which is good. What little we're told of him is that he impregnates lower born women and doesn't take responsibility for his children; Lothar Brune, the Sandor stand-in, calls him an arse and an upjumped squire; when he tires of one woman he moves on to the next. He fat shames the mother of his child, and he's rude to Alayne, bringing her to tears, because she's a bastard and in his eyes not worthy of basic decency. Alayne also compares him to Joffrey, so there's that.

I'm really not a fan of the "good woman fixes man into something she can love" trope. She can provide motivation of course but that's entirely on the part of the man to do that. Ideally she doesn't realize it, or has any active part of his change. He needs to do that on his own, for himself.

So in my opinion, canon-wise, it's not looking good so far. But as for shipping, by all means, if you enjoy the pairing, then have fun with it! Please don't let whatever happens rob you of your enjoyment.

#sansa stark #alayne stone #harry the heir #harrold hardyng #meta #asoiaf speculation

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agentrouka-blog · 4 years

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What future do you see for Timett One-Eye? Do you think he'll cross paths with Sansa and be a stand-in for Jon, since Jon is probably going to lose an eye?

I definitely agree that Timett is likely one of the many stand-ins for Jon, but I also think he’s not going to be as prominent a figure as the Hound, or even Sansa’s cuddly cousin Sweetrobin or any of the maaaaany others. I don’ t think they would be a specific stand-in for Jon in a romantic context, or even touch on every context of their relationship. IF they meet, the devil will likely be in the details.

That said, Tyrion is given this little speech in ADWD:

Tyrion cleared his throat. “You can talk of old times later … after I am done explaining why my head would be of more use to you upon my shoulders. You will find, Lord Plumm, that I can be very generous to my friends. If you doubt me, ask Bronn. Ask Shagga, son of Dolf. Ask Timett, son of Timett.” “And who would they be?” asked the man called Inkpots. “Good men who pledged me their swords and prospered greatly by that service.” He shrugged. “Oh, very well, I lied about the ‘good’ part. They’re bloodthirsty bastards, like you lot.” (ADWD, Tyrion XI)

A one-eyed, blood-thirsty bastard, a Burned Man (clan name). That’s pretty blatant. And considering he is specifically named and brought up, that’s another hint that Sansa may, in fact, encounter the mountain clans soon, and possibly make use of her marriage to Tyrion in that context. They have reason to remember him fondly. When Tyrion is informed that his mountain clan men are gone, we are given detail on Timett and another potential, ugly hint for Sansa:

“The Stone Crows are still in the kingswood. Shagga seems to have taken a fancy to the place. Timett led the Burned Men home, with all the plunder they took from Stannis’s camp after the fighting. Chella turned up with a dozen Black Ears at the River Gate one morning, but your father’s red cloaks chased them off while the Kingslanders threw dung and cheered.” Ingrates. The Black Ears died for them. Whilst Tyrion lay drugged and dreaming, his own blood had pulled his claws out, one by one. “I want you to go to my sister. Her precious son made it through the battle unscathed, so Cersei has no more need of a hostage. She swore to free Alayaya once—” “She did. Eight, nine days ago, after the whipping.” Tyrion shoved himself up higher, ignoring the sudden stab of pain through his shoulder. “Whipping?” “They tied her to a post in the yard and scourged her, then shoved her out the gate naked and bloody.” She was learning to read, Tyrion thought, absurdly. Across his face the scar stretched tight, and for a moment it felt as though his head would burst with rage. Alayaya was a whore, true enough, but a sweeter, braver, more innocent girl he had seldom met. Tyrion had never touched her; she had been no more than a veil, to hide Shae. In his carelessness, he had never thought what the role might cost her. (ASOS, Tyrion I)

No more than a veil. Veil, Vale. Bloody, Gate. Playing a role at great cost. Learning. Sweet, brave, innocent, never touched by Tyrion… That’s Sansa.

Something tells me, Sansa’s time as Alayne will come to an uncomfortable end.

I don’t think she will be literally whipped. But her role as a bastard girl might leave her very vulnerable to some kind of retribution if Littlefinger’s power in the Vale is shaken.

There may even be a dynamic at work that I like the call Small Vale Conspiracy, akin to the Grand Northern Conspiracy. Vale lords loyal to the Arryns may be hoping to oust Littlefinger, while Harry’s faction also has no desire to be controlled by him. We are given to understand Littlefinger has bought most of their support. But maybe not?

Sansa as his bastard way above her station, his co-conspirator, potentially as his rumored incestuous mistress, maybe accused of wearing the clothes or jewels of the late Lady Arryn (Like Grandpa Lannister’s mistress, who was made to do a walk of shame by Tywin), being gifted with things as extravagant as a giant lemon cake that required every last lemon in the Vale (look to Jon’s chapters to understand the importance of citrus fruit to combat scurvy in winter and you may understand how some could consider that baaaaad) and arranging fancy tourneys in a time of war... Plus, she lied about Lysa’s death.

It may come to nothing, but if suddenly a lot of people were to turn on Sansa the moment Littlefinger is considered ousted, GRRM would have given it ample set-up. Sansas is essentially Reek to Baelish’s Ramsey. (While also being young Griff, while also being ASOS-Jon with the wildlings, while also being AGOT-Dany with the Dothraki... Cycles, mirrors everywhere.)

It would fit into the pattern of everyone heading into major catastrophe before emerging momentarily triumphant.

Sansa being humiliated and scorned might ultimately be her path to freedom, to the North.

Another hint:

His dream of selling Arya to Lady Arryn died there in the hills, though. "There's frost above us and snow in the high passes," the village elder said. "If you don't freeze or starve, the shadowcats will get you, or the cave bears. There's the clans as well. The Burned Men are fearless since Timett One-Eye came back from the war. And half a year ago, Gunthor son of Gurn led the Stone Crows down on a village not eight miles from here. They took every woman and every scrap of grain, and killed half the men. They have steel now, good swords and mail hauberks, and they watch the high road—the Stone Crows, the Milk Snakes, the Sons of the Mist, all of them. Might be you'd take a few with you, but in the end they'd kill you and make off with your daughter."

I'm not his daughter, Arya might have shouted, if she hadn't felt so tired. She was no one's daughter now. She was no one. Not Arya, not Weasel, not Nan nor Arry nor Squab, not even Lumpyhead. She was only some girl who ran with a dog by day, and dreamed of wolves by night. (ASOS, Arya XII)

Someone wants to “sell” a Stark Girl but will fail. Winter imagery. Running with a dog, i.e. some knight-like figure like the Hound, but dreaming of wolves. “I am not his daughter.” Could as well be Sansa.

If I’m wrong about Sansa taking a ship from Gulltown, she may actually make her way west through the mountains with a knight and encounter the mountain clans, and Timett. It would be a sweet parallel to whatever Dany is going to do to the Dothraki she encounters at the end of ADWD after fleeing Meereen (where she “played a role”) on Dragon back, and whatever Jon will be doing in the North that will likely involve the Wildlings, after returning from getting stabbed.

If somehow Sansa enters recovers some power and dignity or at least gets the opportunity to politic her way North with the help of the Mountain Clans, I would love it. Timett would be a key figure to making it happen, through his Tyrion connection.

If she eventually, perhaps even after reuniting with Jon, manages to broker some kind of peace between Clans and Vale, much like Jon did with Wildlings and Night’s Watch, I would love it even more. But that may be too much to ask?

I’m not super-attached to this theory, but I could enjoy it.

That’s the nice thing about TWOW. We already know Sansa will be big, crucial and heading home. So many different ways it may happen, though!

#asoiaf #sansa stark #timett son of timett #mountain clans #tyrion lannister #jon snow

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renlyisright · 4 years

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Season 7 Episode 7 - Hey, We Won at Scheming, Who Would Have Guessed

Welp, I finished the master’s thesis before I finished the show. I can’t exactly say that I have grown up with these characters because most of them have stopped growing up for death-related reasons. Well, there’s the Stark kids who are still alive, and their careers are all on up-swing.

In this final episode of the season, we visit the ruins of the dragon pit, and they make me wonder just how large it must have been when the dragons were still super large.

The truce meeting is about to start, but Daenerys has brought her army to stand near King’s Landing, just in case. Both the Unsullied and the Dothraki. Euron’s massive fleet is protecting the Blackwater, against Daenerys’ fleet of… five ships.

The negotiators are allowed entrance, and are brought to the third hill of King’s Landing, and the one tourist attraction we haven’t seen yet, the Dragon Pit. Which is a big place, but sadly a ruin. Being a large pile of already-cut stone right in the city with no current use never helps any historical building, those stones can be put to a much better use.

As this meeting includes almost everyone of any importance, and also some sidekicks, there’s more reunions. Tyrion says that he missed Bronn. Bronn seems to have his business in order, bringing Cersei’s enemies to her and thinking of retiring with his reward if the negotiation ends with heads on spikes. But if Daenerys wins in the end...

Everyone arrives to the arena, and the Hound begins the game by threatening the Mountain. There’s clearly a duel being set up between these two death-cheaters, but as at any time either of them can be killed by, well, anything, I’m not holding my breath for a super smackdown between them.

Daenerys arrives fashionably late, and brings her two dragons to the dragon pit, and… how big exactly this place must have been in the beginning? Drogon’s wings almost cover the middle of the arena by themselves.

As Daenerys, Jon and Tyrion predicted, their enemies just laugh about the matter before seeing the evidence. After that, they present a bit of theater, as Cersei later reveals. Euron proclaims that he’s moving his fleet to the Iron Islands, away from the Dead, and Cersei gives a practised speech of accepting the truce.

So did they have intel of the evidence, or did Cersei make plans for the low-odds-event that the thing she has ridiculed every time it has come up is actually true. If so, that’s remarkably good planning, from her.

The showing of the evidence was quite a show, Jon used the one wight they had in great detail for everyone to see. Qyburn was especially interested… well, he has practised getting one almost dead man up and running, so searching this body for any clues for advancing the scientific understanding of life and death must intrigue him… Let’s hope he doesn’t create a new White Walker in the middle of the Red Keep.

Cersei asks Jon to promise to go back to the North and stay there. Jon can’t promise that, so the negotiation ends, just like that. Tyrion and Daenerys say that Jon should have just lied and not been so Neddy. But just because others do something universally agreed to be bad, it doesn’t mean you should too. Anyway, Cersei walks out and Tyrion goes to speak to him alone, as he matters the least if he gets killed.

But he doesn’t, even after coaxing Cersei to kill him for what he did. Cersei is too shocked to give the word, and it could also be that she simply can’t give people what they ask from her, it’s completely unnatural to her. She blames Tyrion for killing Tywin, which opened them for their enemies and brought about the dead of the rest of the kids. The legacy of Tywin Lannister… you know, if the only thing keeping everyone from attacking your family is their fear of you, that does not a good legacy make. The legacy of Ned Stark was the North supporting first Robb and then Jon out of respect to him, the legacy of Tywin Lannister was everyone piling up on the Lannisters once he was out of the way.

The result of Cersei and Tyrion’s discussion is that Cersei proclaims to join them in the fight against the Dead, while expecting nothing good to come to herself for that decision. Yes, what did we speak about lying just now?

Speaking of Ned Stark’s legacy, Jon and Theon talk about it. Theon betrayed his memory, but, as Jon says, he was more of a father to Theon than Balon ever was. And so they can use that bond to reconcile, and Jon can encourage Theon to take charge and take the lead of Yara’s men.

Symbolism, Theon is starting to change his weaknesses into strengths. This is symbolised by allowing the Ironborn he is fighting to kick him to the nuts, to no effect. Yes, this is symbolism speaking.

The man says to Theon “Stay down, or I’ll kill you”. When Theon has the upper hand, he bashes his head in with a rock for that mercy. I would say that the Ironborn have a specifically violent way to solve disputes, but… nope. Not specifically, not at all. But Theon gets to be the leader of the pride, and gets to go against the Ramsay-placeholder enemy to confront his trauma. Someone should invent better therapy methods.

In Winterfell, the winter continues to fall from the sky. Littlefinger tries to chaos things up, but his time’s up. There’s no room for him anymore in this new magical and thriller-pace world.

I read A Dance With Dragons last winter, and while I liked most of it, like the writing style, the characters, seeing more of non-royals, and the new locales, the ending was a disappointment. Or rather, that there wasn’t an ending. There’s more books to go (and I hope to get to read them), but this one just… stopped when the page count went over 1000. It had the same problem as the fourth one, people spent a lot of time going from one place to another, so that when they arrived the book was almost over (or in Victarion’s case, it was over), and the end result was just a list of cliffhangers. Like, imagine ending A Clash of Kings just before Blackwater, or last season before the Battle of the Bastards. It felt like the arc of the book was incomplete, and I wasn’t given a reason to care about the new side plots, like which of them will actually matter and which just padded the book until it had to end early?

The funny thing of course is that this show has now the opposite problem of jumping from one set piece to another without build-up or showing of the journey. And when you can’t keep up with this new world, you lose the game of thrones.

Littlefinger schemes a wedge between Sansa and Arya. He doesn’t want a trained assassin in the same castle as he is, now that he has supported Sansa to ladyship and is perhaps looking for a way to make her a queen as well… that was his weakness, stick to just getting power and you’d have much easier job, but no, you have to include getting a specific woman into your plans and that’s when you make mistakes. But it doesn’t matter anymore what he schemes, as magic has entered Winterfell.

Bran can cheat. He can see the past, and apparently can see exactly where and when he wants. So he traced Littlefinger’s steps, and found out all his betrayals. Many of them Sansa already knew, so the rest mustn’t have come as a shock. So the Starks, who value honesty and honor, now can see if they are betrayed or lied to. Once Jon gets to Winterfell, Bran can tell him what Cersei said after they left. Political intrigue, a corner block and most of the wall of the show, has suddenly become useless. The Littlefingers of the world can’t scheme anymore against the Starks. They have Won At Scheming.

The dagger, the dagger, is revealed to be originally Petyr’s. As I said earlier, the only way the revelation could matter anymore would be if it was someone’s who is still living, or someone’s whom we’d never think to order Bran’s assassination. And here we are, it was the Chaos Man. I’m not sure if the dates add up, how did he know of Bran’s fall so that he could hire the assassin, when he was in King’s Landing at the time? Maybe he wasn’t? And why use his own expensive dagger and lie that it was Tyrion’s, when a simple Lannister knife would have worked much better?

In the book the answer was different. Tyrion figured out that it was Joffrey, who stole his father’s dagger and gave it to the assassin. He never confirmed it with anyone, and anyway Joffrey died moments later. I can fully well believe it from Joffrey. But it’s been so long since Joffrey died that at this point one more evil deed to his name wouldn’t mean much. So the culprit is now Littlefinger, and wow, listing all his schemes like that tells how without him the status quo would likely be just where it was in the beginning. He has a lot of blood on his hands. Daenerys and the Dead would still be wild cards, though.

And so the king of the ash heap, Petyr Baelish, dies in the dark main hall of Winterfell, in the middle of the mess he’s spent years to create, without achieving his goals, without any allies and with absolutely nobody going to miss him.

As I have said, for being such a dark and gritty show, the villains don’t get any better ends than those who try to do better, and their legacies are usually worse.

Speaking of both the villains and those who try to do better, Cersei informs Jaime that nope, we are not going anywhere, she used the neat trick called lying. Euron went to get mercenaries with elephants (ooh!) from Essos.

This is enough for Jaime, who storms away, after telling Cersei to have the Mountain kill him for it if she so desires. In the end, she doesn’t, even after threatening him with that. But after listening to her lie and cheat for years, Jaime just says “I don’t believe you” and leaves. See, consequences.

Poor Cersei, losing everyone’s trust and being entirely alone at the end of the episode. Only her massive armies to keep her on the throne. Which is a funny thing, now that I think about it. She has managed to antagonize everybody, but because she has killed everyone in King’s Landing who has criticized her, she gets to still rule, because there is no one else in the city to take the crown from her. She’s taking advantage of the fact that no new important characters are going to be introduced at this point. Euron was the last one, in the season 6 of 8, and even he feels like he exists only as a mid boss so Daenerys’ invasion isn’t too easy, to be killed once fleets don’t matter anymore.

Of course Cersei takes advantage of the fact that her enemies are scary. New Targaryen invasion, with the Dothraki and Unsullied. Nothing like the good old rulers we have here in Westeros, who may blow up the most holy building on the continent to escape a trial and kill the servants of the main religion, but are at least… from the same continent?

It’s still weird that the Seven is the main religion, when it has been the most useless one in actual action. Did they ever do anything? When the Old Gods were driven from the South, were the Seven doing anything to support their believers? Well, did the Old Gods? Does the Drowned God? Well, if Euron’s fleet’s speed is a boon from the Drowned God, that would explain a lot.

The winter comes to King’s Landing as well. Snow will be next season’s color. Along with darkness, but if the scenery gets any darker I won’t see anything on screen.

A song of fire: Sam arrives at Winterfell, safe and sound. He must have found out about his father and brother on the way, but it’s not mentioned. He meets with Bran, and by giving him a hint of where to look, Bran sees the wedding of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. So they were legally married, and their child, Jon, is not a bastard, but the legal heir to the Throne, Aegon Targaryen. Boom. And there’s him and Daenerys being all Targaryeny.

Bigger thing than the heir business, is that Rhaegar is no longer sullied by the rape, which is the main thing he is remembered for. “He was a noble and great knight from the stories, a great prince, and a rapist whose horribleness brought about the rebellion.” But was that lie better than the truth? Or did someone, last generation’s Littlefinger, spin the story for the worst so a proper war could get started?

Anyway, has Daenerys fought all her battles so that she can give the throne to the rightful heir, who is not her, the Breaker of Chains?

A song of ice: Sansa and Arya talk, and remember their father’s words of working together: The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Legacy.

In the Eastwatch-by-the-sea, bad things happen. A dragon is a nuke option, and the Night King uses it gladly. Its power seems to be enough to destroy the Wall and remove the spells as well. And so the dead march to the lands beyond the Wall, bringing a new night with them.

After all the hype of the Wall, it couldn’t even put up a fight when the dead finally arrived. Beric Dondarrion and Tormund try to run to safety, and I can’t see if they succeed. But I’d presume that there would be a clearer shot if they died. And, well, we are talking of Beric Dondarrion here. He could always play dead.

But guess who from the Night Watch survived the apocalyptic event of the onslaught of the dead and the destruction of the Wall? And did it just by not being where the attack happened? My favourite watchman, Dolorous Edd. How does he do it?

By the way, Night Watch, Long Night, Night King, connecting these took too long for me.

#renly is right #game of thrones

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howlandreads · 5 years

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Jonsa in 8x04

***WARNING: SPOILERS! I will be referencing leaks for episodes 5 & 6***

I went into this episode knowing from leaks that I’d most likely be getting a lot of really good Dark!Dany evidence, so I thought if I could just get a single, even minor, Jonsa moment, then I could really feel confidant about the final two episodes of this season. And ohmygod was I not disappointed. Not only did we get one Jonsa moment, we got an episode full of Jonsa content.

The Mourning Of Winterfell

From literally the second this episode begins, Sansa and D*ny are being paralleled. First we see D*ny grieving over Jorah’s body, then we see Sansa grieving over Theon’s. While I think the show is pitting Sansa and D*ny against each other for mostly political reasons right now, I also think they keep being shown in competition because of the mounting love triangle with Jon. Scenes that share the three of them are continuosly framed as if they’re an angsty love triangle, and I think a lot of this set up is going to be paid off in next week’s episode, and especially the finale.

The Feast

This scene is so full of Jonsa content it makes my heart burst. First we get Sansa encouraging Jon to shot gun a horn of ale and giving him the affirmation she knows he wants (“Go on, I believe in you,”), then we see her give Jon the most romantic gaze:

Then, we get more love triangle foreshadowing when Sansa sees Jon and D*ny make eye contact, and is visibly upset by it. She even gets up and leaves. Next, we see Sansa’s reunion with the Hound, which continues the trend of Sansa saying goodbye to a potential suitor every episode since 8x02. First it was Theon, then it was Tyrion, and now it’s Sandor. It seems like the writers are deliberately reminding us of the realistic romanticism that so embodies Sansa’s worldview. Which begs the question - why would they remind us of Sansa’s romantic desires to have her end this story alone? I think this is just one of the many ways D&D are hinting at Jonsa, but also saving the relationship for a massive plot reveal, the kind they seem to love so much.

The War Room

This is by far the most obvious the show has made the D*ny vs. Sansa conflict. While Sansa cares about her people, D*ny continues to care almost exclusively about her claim to the Iron Throne. Though Jon sides with D*ny in this particular conflict, it’s important that he never actually expresses support for D*ny’s position. He only says the North will honor their agreements. I think D&D want us to see season 8 Jon as an emotionally and morally conflicted leader, who has gotten in way over his head. He convinced himself he was in love with a cruel and vindictive queen because he needed her to save his people, and now that the threat is gone he’s seeing her for who she truly is. This, combined with Jon’s non-existant POV and his distance from Sansa since the R+L=J reveal, hopefully means he’s finally beginning to realize his romantic feeling towards her.

This scene also continues the theme of fan favorites slowly siding with Sansa, and the idea of Northern Independance. First, Theon pledged allegiance to Sansa personally, then Brienne redeclared her loyalty to Sansa in 8x02, and now Arya is officially Team Sansa (though it was mostly a given that she would be). And later in this episode, Varys seems to be drifting towards House Stark.

The Godswood

There’s not a whole lot of Jonsa commentary to be said about this scene, since it cuts off at the most important part, but I still think there’s some important dialogue choices that show just how much Jon is breaking away from D*ny at this point. Again, he phrases his allegiance to her as political, rather than personal. If political!Jon is true, then this reflects a Jon that’s trapped in his own political strategy, and hasn’t quite found a delicate way out of his own scheme that won’t lead to violence. And if political!Jon turns out to be a false theory, then this reflects a Jon who’s coming to the conclusion that he deeply misjudged D*ny, is now becoming defensive in his mistakes.

The Battlements

This is by far the most Jonsa affirming scene in the episode, and even the show, so far. After this, it seems obvious to me that it’s officially canon that Sansa Stark is in love with Jon Snow. Otherwise, her actions and dialogue in this conversation with Tyrion make no sense.

The scene begins with Sansa watching D*ny with Drogon and Rhaegal. After Tyrion greets her, she says “Why her?”. She quickly explains that she means “Why her?” in a political sense, but still it’s hard not to read this as a quiet admission of romantic love for Jon, considering she’s just learned that they’re not actually siblings, and is now staring anguished at the woman he’s sleeping with. The close to tears expression Sophie has for the entirety of this scene is heartbreaking. And she only draws closer to tears after Tyrion reminds her that D*ny and Jon are supposedly in love. Sansa’s jealousy and distress in this scene seem especially coded romantic after she grows so defensive about believing that Jon would rather stay North with her, than live in the South with D*ny.

Though I limited this post to strictly Jonsa content, all the Dark!Dany foreshadowing seems to significantly help the legitimacy of Jonsa theories as well. This episode was incredibly good for this ship, and considering the leaks that D*ny will be dead by Jon’s hand at the end of 8x04, it’s seeming like we can expect canon Jonsa by the end of the finale.

#game of thrones #got #jonsa #gotjonsnow #gotjonsa #gotsansastark #Sansa Stark #SANSA STARK DEFENSE SQUAD #ASoIaF #jonsa meta #sophie turner #political!jon #ucl #dark!dany #anti targaryen #anti daenerys

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theirondragonrants · 5 years

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8 Thoughts on GOT 8X03 THE BATTLE OF HELMS DEEP THRONES STYLE

I have no God darned clue what the episode name is so I'm gonna call it Helm's Deep, no I will not accept criticism. That being said here we go.

1. The most Heroic thing

Can we give it up for the true heroes of this shit. Lyanna Mormont going out like a champ. She told men they were idiots and proved it in the end by taking out a fucking GIANT. Arya knew Sansa had no chance out there and if they were going to fight to the last man, Sansa would be what the survivors would need so she sent her to the crypts. (it also gave me flashbacks to Jon saying if he didn't Keep Sansa safe Eddard Stark would climb out of his grave to kill him). Melisandre fucking giving fire left and right like a boss, and GIVING THOSE WAR ENDING TIPS. Brienne holding the line with Jamie, Pod and everyone else fighting under her. Beric and the Hound hauling ass to save Arya. Greyworm protecting the retreat with the unsullied and then wrecking face inside the gates. So many great moments and people.

2. Everything that happened led you where you belong

It was definitely a line for Theon, and by the drowned God did he deliver, but it was also for everyone else. Everything they've been through, everyone they've lost, all they've endured led them to this battle, and every one of them was crucial for every moment whether we saw it or not.

And now to the man it was spoken to. Theon Greyjoy who betrayed the Stark family, drove Bran and Rickon from their home, saved Sansa and brought Daenerys to Westeros died protecting his little brother and I love that. Good men are forged in fire and like Bran said, Theon is a good man.

3. You were the best of them

For obvious reasons we couldn't let a lot of out the no combatants. Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, Missandei, they're all better at games that don't involve swords and fighting. That being said, I loved the little tidbits we did get. I really think that, if Daenerys didn't exist, Tyrion would probably give a thought to Sansa ruling the seven kingdoms. She's got the right name, she's stronger than Robert but gentler than Stannis, and she's been ruling despite everyone's doubts and doing a kickass job out of it.

Tyrion really was the best of her husband's and while I don't ship it, I think they would be a pair to be reckoned with. Sansa and Tyrion also knowing that they'd be useless in a fight but when the fight comes to you you've gotta get it together.

4. And now their watch is ended

I'm surprised we didn't get as many deaths? Granted I know there's piles of corpses that are a few stories tall, but main cast deaths were few and far in between. That being said let's have a few moments of silence for the good people we lost.

Edd, homie died doing what he had been doing for a long time, taking care of Sam who keeps freezing at the worst moments.

Jorah, he did just take Jamie's wish to die in the arms of the woman he loves. Fucking Jorah hauled ass out of Winterfell to save Daenerys, who had already done her fair share of fighting, and went out like a champ.

Beric, god dammit so I have a LOT to say about his death, but he went out doing the literal Lord's work and I appreciate him so.

Lyanna, she decided that the women wouldn't be left behind and she did her duty. She manned the gate, and held the line, and went out buying them precious time and instead of dealing with all those dead AND a giant, they just had to fight all the dead.

Melisandre, her fire went out but she fucking saved them. Like Beric I've got a lot of stuff to say about her, so catch that in number 8.

5. DRAGONS

No fancy title for this one because DRAGONS.

Daenerys and Drogon buying everyone time and doing the best they fucking could to make everything easier. But only Daenerys and Drogon. Jon on the other hand is a useless schmuck and I feel vindicated in how much I don't like him.

Even Viserion fucking wrecking face with his blue fire, and dog-fighting with Drogon in mid-air and still continuing to wreck face even after the Night King fell off? Amazing.

6. Jon Snow, not the prince that was promised

BITCH AM I HAPPY ABOUT THIS.

Jon Snow has repeatedly made stupid ass decisions, and been irredeemably useless on more than one occasion. Letting him be the prince that was promised would've been some utter bullshit, and honestly I'm so happy it wasn't him at the end.

He sat on his ass, on the walls of Winterfell, with full visibility of the trenches while the archers were desperately trying to light them and did nothing. He screamed at a dragon while Arya wrecked the Night King's face.

I am however very curious about why he got brought back? If he wasn't the prince that was promised then what's his mission?

7. Jaime and Brienne, a power couple

This is more my own fan service than nothing else, but God damn everytime the camera went back to then I felt my heart drop. Brienne saving Jaime and Jaime saving her right back? Amazing, iconic, I love them. And even in the thick of it they were still watching each other's 6s, protecting Pod, doing what they do and looking fabulous while doing it. Honestly I'm so happy to see they'll live another day.

8. Arya Stark, she-wolf of Winterfell, protector of the realm and slayer of ice zombies

HONESTLY I DIDNT SEE THIS COMING!?

What do we say to the God of death??? NOT TODAY BITCHES. Much like everyone else, everything they've lived has led to this moment. Every moment of training, all the names on the list, even that little training montage with Brienne when she did that dagger drop, everything led up to this iconic fucking moment. Beric being brought back to save her. Melisandre coming back from Volantis to save their assess. The Hound snapping out of his panic for her. Everything came down to that moment.

I'm really going to have to go back and see every clue that said Arya was supposed to do this, but God damn!

AND IN THIS MOMENT THE NIGHT KING KNEW, HE FUCKED UP

Final thoughts:

I know to a lot of casual viewers who came in for the fantasy, the show has led up to this fight and it's a question of now what? But really, the show is going to do a full circle. This all started with the Dragons, the Stags, the Wolves and the Lions going at eachother, and that's exactly how it's going to end. Be it as it may, this show is about the Game of Thrones, and it's time to play.

Episode Score: 9/10

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fedonciadale · 5 years

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I've been subscribed to freefolk for news for less than a week and every day I am bombarded with blatant Sansa hate on many different posts. Is Tumblr the only place that respects Sansa as a character? We really are a minority.

Dear nonny,

It seems this is a good time to answer your post, since we were reminded by some of the more vocal even on tumblr how ‘awful’ Sansa is. It seems even here we do have to fight for the ‘Sansa Stark defence squad’ once in a while.

I must admit that I myself have not always loved Sansa. I liked Jon from the start and I really related to Arya - coming from a similar situation like Arya myself. I do have an older sister who is traditionally feminine and I wanted to run with the boys and played soccer with my brother. And it took me a while to re-evaluate Sansa. I sort of pitied her ever since Ned died and read her chapters with greater interest until I reached the Battle of the Blackwater. The scene with the Hound really struck a cord in me. Sansa was threatened by a big, dangerous man and her resilience in this situation, the fact that she sang, but not the song he wanted and that the ‘magic’ of her plead for mercy was so strong that a brutal man relented from brutally abducting and maybe raping her had me moved to tears. Ever since then I’ve been on Sansa’s side. It is such a well written scene! -

(Just for the record : I don’t ship SanSan, I’ve never shipped it, I have pity with the Hound but I think his role is to die as a real knight in defence of the weak. The purpose of this scene was not romantic but to show the power of Sansa’s soft 'magic’, the singing that is parallel to Tolkien’s Luthien - as I explained in my Beren and Luthien meta (link to the third part here) months before someone stole this [sry for the deviation… Still pissed the other side of the fandom takes our things minus the Jonsa parts and tries to pimp their own mediocre takes, althought others were done much more badly than me]).

I may not have liked Sansa from the beginning but since I’ve always been House Stark, Sansa did have a small part in my heart all the time. Because I rooted for all the Starks. And this is why I don’t get the hate Sansa gets from some Arya fans. I mean if you like Arya, you presumably like House Stark, and House Stark includes Sansa - who identifies internally as a Stark ever since her father died. She might be your least favourite Stark but why deny that she is one? I mean I sort of get Da€nerys fans who don’t like Sansa - she is the daughter of one of the usurper’s dogs after all - but anyone who is on Team House Stark and wishes Sansa dead should get their membership card revoked.

So, some (not all of course) of Arya’s fans want things Arya herself would never want: being Queen, Sansa dead etc. and I while do know that things can be read differently, how they come to the idea that the sisters genuinely hate each other is beyond me.

The VF article has not improved the bad takes on Sansa. People seem not to understand, that what we actually see on screen and what the actors are told is more relevant than something that was pinned down in advance, where the writers very clearly wrote down what they want to be the General audience’s take in that situation. So, Maisie Wiliams telling that she was directed to play the “villain” is meaningless, while a part from the script where they want to dupe the audience into believing in Starkbowl is gospel.

And it is always like that. I do think that by now, Sansa could be a veritable angel (which she is not) and they would still find something to blame on her. And they contradict themselves as well: Sansa is stupid and naiv and a slow learner but she is also this deft manipulator without scruples (manipulating the Northern Lords into liking her, while she is working to depose Jon). You know the woman who said ‘Only a fool trusts Littlefinger’ (in a setting where she has no reason to lie), somehow trusts Littlefinger? The woman who declines to be declared queen instead of the absent Jon is working against him (because she was waiting for a better moment to be declared queen or what?). The woman who cares for the armour and the food of her people is a self-centred entitled narcist… And you know, even with the subpar writing of season 7, it should be even possible to think that Sansa did not trust Littlefinger and was still worried about what Arya would do. It is - surprise, surprise - quite possible not to trust someone and still allow for that person to have insight and to learn from them, and it is also possible to mistrust someone you love and be worried about what your impulsive little sister might do, without outright planning to kill her. Because you want to hold everything together in the face of a very dangerous outward threat and the absence of the king, it is only sensible to have an eye on a very dangerous assassin sister who threatened to take over your own face….

I guess the reason Sansa hate is so common in this fandom is because GRRM did a really bold thing. He introduced Sansa from the PoV of a little sister whose issues with self-confidence has a lot to do with her older sister (without the older sister rubbing this in I might add - I don’t want to elaborate here, but if you read closely it is quite clear, that Sansa covers for her sister and the ‘bullying’ that some of the fans blame on her is simply not there). Now our first impression is the beautiful, girly, superficial girl who is a pain in the ass to every girl who does not adhere to society’s strict expectations towards girls, who is not beautiful or does not feel beautiful and is a tomboy. How this trope usually works is that the ‘bullied’ girl develops from an ugly duck to a beautiful swan, the ‘mean’ girl falls on hard times because she misjudged people because of her superficiality and is finally punished. Cinderella and her step-sisters show her faces here…

I do think that this is the reason why many, many people in the fandom still expect Sansa to die and to be punished, and to be in general a mean character. People expect her to become the mean machinator at Littlefinger’s side and falling beside him, they expect her to die or to become a ‘fallen woman’ (ending up in a brothel or such, yikes)… And all because they fell for the PoV in AGOT and they feel for the trope that GRRM has set up and they probably fell for this picture of a ‘mean girl’ that has plagued their own high school days. (I give them some advice: They’ll never get beyond their own issues if they do not let go of their hatred of that mean high school girl and realise that life is not high school.)

What GRRM does, is to subvert this type: The ‘evil older stepsister’ is actually not evil (and never was), she learns from her mistakes and she has character development. But this is usually something that is a prerogative of male heroes. Female heroes may have a learning arc, but that is usually not set up as a character development arc as in overcoming some faults.

Fandom somehow has no problem with accepting Jaime’s redemption arc or Theon’s, but God forbid to accept character development that is contrary to tropes. Arya begins as a girl whose skills are not valued in her society and it is a quite common trope to have her acquiring more skills and possibly come out on top because of that. Da€nerys is the girl that starts as an absolute underdog and that accumulates power to set right the wrongs done to her. What fandom fails to realise is that Arya is so set on revenge that she has begun to follow a dark path (more so in the show than the books) and that Da€nerys acquires some traits of her abusers along the way to the top. Arya and Da€nerys also subvert tropes but people are blind to that, because theirs are tropes that make the underestimated girl a heroine in the end and they get high on that. They are lured by the tropes as well as the PoV traps. So, Sansa haters are stuck in the preconceptions they acquired while reading AGOT which leads them to grossly misread not only Sansa but others as well (the Hound as a good guy (???) and an important character (when he doesn’t even have a PoV), Arya as hating Sansa, Littlefinger as the master manipulator who’ll recruit Sansa for his cause)

There is also another reason for Sansa hate which has nothing to do with GRRM but with society. Girly girls are just not fashionable. It is cool to like the tomboy girls, the badass girls, the sassy girls, but not feminine girls - at least in FICTION. In reality this is much more complex. In my experience girly girls - at least after a phase of really irrational hatred during the teenage years, that most sensible people leave behind them - are not hated. This is connected to the overblown expectations people have in regard to women - not only men, but women as well. I would hesitate to call this internalised misogyny, I would rather call this internalised overblown expectations. A woman should be smart (but not so smart that she can outwit a man), she should be strong and badass and independent (but not too independent, she should need male validation after all), but she should also be beautiful and care for her beauty. A girl with a gun chasing villains? Wonderful! But are her legs hairless? Do her nails look good? Does she run in high heels? So, there are many men who would tell you they like badass woman but in reality? They’d rather not have a woman who doesn’t have time to don makeup, shave her legs and do her nails.... So, hating girly girls in fiction is easy: Men can pretend that they don’t care for girly girls and show how ‘advanced’ they are by rooting for the tomboy (who after all fits to their male ideals and stresses the idea that male actitivities are ‘better’) and women can hate on the girly girls, because either they’d rather not be like that (for whatever reason, one of them might be that they also adhere to the ideal that male activities are better) or because they feel the pressure to become girly to fit into society’s expectations that are there despite the fact that women are told at the same time, that being girly is lesser. Being frustrated with this kind of contradictory expectations might make you hate the girly girl type - I can understand that. When I was younger and more naive I did as well.

It’s a catch 22 really. And as long as people (men and women) won’t realise that feminism is not about all women becoming like men nor about looking down on women who feel comfortable with being a traditional woman and as long as these activities are seen as somehow being lesser we will have people who hate on fictional characters that do question their take on feminity. I have some issues with GRRM’s take on women - mostly because he ignores the importance of female friendships - but I certainly have no issues with the variety of women he describes, nor with the fact that he shows a kind of female strength that is so often ridiculed in fiction and in real world.

This was a long answer, but honestly, although I’m foremost a Jon Snow fan, this fandom has made me into a member of the Sansa Stark defence squad.

Thanks for the ask!

#anon ask #Sansa Stark #Sansa Stark defence squad #Why the hate?#I'm so angry about this #Sansa haters #Sansa haters should just admit they don't support House Stark #Sansa is a Stark

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summerseachild · 5 years

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Summersea’s GoT Season 4 Rewatch 2019

Otherwise known as: “The Long Slow Slide to D and D Running Out of Material from the Books”

4x01:

1. The visuals of Ice getting melted down are SO PRETTY (while RoC plays on the background 😎 living my best Lannister Life over here.)

2. Jaime getting the sword and trying NOT to be Lord of Casterly Rock and HOLY SHIT TELLING TYWIN NO and getting away with it.

3. Tyrion is trying so hard to greet the Dornish politely... poor guy.

4. It’s pride month so I’m just pointing out that Oberyn is soooo biiiii and This Bi Girl loves him. And him playing with the flame and Ellaria trying to stop him from killing the Lannister who insulted him... I just love their dynamic.

5. Drogon is just a big happy dragon-Cat and in Dany’s first appearance of this season. He PURRS.

6. I love Jaime and Cersei’s scene with Jaime’s new hand. They snipe at each other, but it is SO how they interact.

7. Jon and Sansa reacting to Robb’s death :(

8. GUESS WHO DID NOT MISS JANOS SLYNT OR ALLISER THORNE AT ALL THATS RIGHT MEEEE. Also Alliser is Peter Knox in a Discovery of Witches so I just HATE HIS FACE.

9. TREAT THAT BOOK MORE CAREFULLY JOFFREY YOU LITTLE SHIT and treat your uncle more nicely too. Jaime looks a little taken aback at what a little turd his oldest has become, but handles it well I think.

10. Jaime and Brienne trying to sort out how to keep his vow to Catelyn 🤣

11. YES ARYA GET NEEDLE BACK. Also Sandor being like NO CHILD COME BACK HERE DO NOT RUSH INTO DANGER WITHOUT ME is precious.

12. Sandor Clegane saying FUCK THE KING gives me such satisfaction

13. I should not be so happy about Arya re-enacting the time when Polliver

14. But I am happy that Sandor got his chickens

4x02

1. So I had forgotten that the girls who were in the scene where Theon gets cut are Myranda and the girl Ramsay is hunting later. I remembered how much I hate the Myranda thing real quick, though.

2. I love Tyrion being understanding of Jaime’s disability because HE WOULD BE. Also Tyrion pouring wine on the table to be like “look spilling is no big deal” is PRECIOUS.

3. Bronn knocking Jaime around while sparring is a great source of joy to me.

4. Theon finds out that Robb is dead when he’s got a RAZOR TO RAMSAY’S THROAT I can’t with Alfie’s face.

5. Every time I see Joffrey chop that book in half I want the purple wedding to be right now.

6. Tyrion trying to make Shae leave :...(

7. KEEP AWAY FROM SHIREEN, RED WOMAN, said Davos probably a lot

8. Question: why don’t the direwolves being food BACK to the hungry humans? Especially when Bran can warg into them?

9. So I want to go through every frame of that vision Bran has with the weirwood because the one we haven’t seen before is a Dragons over King’s Landing. Those ARE THE ROOFS YOU SEE IN THE NEXT SHOT FOR THE WEDDING.

10. Haha oh right this IS the purple wedding ep ooops I’d almost forgot. Not sorry for wishing death on Joffrey but sorry for Cersei’s sake and everyone else it fucks over.

11. Loras having eye sex with Oberyn cracks me up I mean they both have eyes and good gaydar... (bi-dar? queer-dar?)

12. Is Margaery... flirting with Brienne? Or is that just Margaery’s personality?

13. JAIME’S FACE when he sees Brienne and Cersei talking is SO FUNNY he’s like shit shit shit DANGER

14. What did Qyburn DO for Cersei that she is recommending to other women? She told him symptoms were gone in a previous ep in a weird mysterious way... did he help her end a pregnancy?? How long has it BEEN since Blackwater? This never comes back again but I’m super curious.

15. Oberyn has zero chill around Tywin and I love it.

16. Margaery looking like she is is going to murder someone during the war of the five Kings show is A Mood. (I mean... there IS about to be a murder.)

17. I don’t think the Tyrells planned it but Joffrey being a shit and making Tyrion touch his wine goblet and SANSA TOUCHING IT TOO played right into their hands.

4x03: oh brother here comes altar sex

1. I want very much for Hector Barbossa to be waiting at the top of that ladder for Sansa after approaching the ship and the creepy fog. But no it’s Petyr Baelish. Ew.

2. Hello new Tommen! Good to see you again after Karstark killed your identical cousin! Also Tywin being like GOOD KINGS ARE SMART AND LISTEN TO THEIR SMART ADVISORS. (That moment when a sitting US president needs to listen to Tywin. Scary?)

3. Altar sex has not aged well for me. I’m not a J/C shipper who thinks they’ve got a healthy relationship that’s all sunshine and kitties. I know the two of them have a messed up dynamic, but this scene misses the mark in so many ways and I hate it. I wish they would have left it out rather than done it wrong. (Also I think it was a tryout for me for “can you get a valonqar scene right?” And the answer was a resounding NO.)

4. Speaking of healthy relationships though Sam and Gilly are cute and sweet and awkward and everything that is good and pure in this world.

5. And so is Davos telling Shireen about his smuggling adventures.

6. Oberyn sat his beautiful self right in the middle of the Kinsey scale and said THE VIEW IS GREAT HERE. What an icon. Also offering Tywin fricking Lannister a seat on the bed where you were just having sex with like FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE was A Move.

7. Tywin TELLS OBERYN ABOUT DANY and Oberyn looks like this is the first he’s heard of it.

8. Tyrion saying goodbye to Pod gave me a decent sized lump in my throat.

9. Daario taking down the Champion Of Meereen with one thrown dagger and one slash of a sword is sexy as fuck and I don’t care who knows I think so.

4x04

1. Missandei teaching Grey Worm and just hanging out with him is so important to me this time around.

2. Jaime and Bronn are weird friends and I kind of love it.

3. The Kingslayer Brothers: coming soon to a stage near you. I’d buy that band’s shirt.

4. Olenna Tyrell is a STONE COLD LADY and I love that about her. She protected her granddaughter and I respect that.

5. That is A LOT OF WINE IN THAT GLASS Cersei my love. Also Jaime TRYING to convince her Tyrion didn’t do it hurts me. He loves them both so much, but they all hurt each other.

6. Ser Pounce is a big fluff like my Freya!

7. OATHKEEPER AND THE WHITE BOOK AND THE ARMOR. Brienne’s face is so pure when he gives it to her.

8. I had near forgotten all of this stuff at the wall with Olly and Jon and the cannibals and the mutineers at Craster’s and waiting for Mance’s army. (We know where my heart is though, don’t we...)

9. SIT DOWN LOCKE. I forgot that human shitstain showed up at the wall looking for Bran.

10. We didn’t need the mutineer plot. What did it add? What did we learn about the world or its people? Nothing we didn’t already know. What. Was. The. Point. We’d already seen the walkers and knew about the babies, we knew the world was violent and classist. WE KNEW.

11. I love when Summer is like HELLO BROTHER GHOST OH NO A TRAP

12. The white walker riding across the frozen lake... what a gorgeous image, and the ice henge...

13. WHAT DO THE BLUE EYED ICE BABIES GROW UP TO BEEEEE DO WE EVEN KNOW

4x05

1. I’d say long live King Tommen, but I’d cry.

2. Cersei is beauty she is grace she wants to punch Margaery in the face. (But actually is acting like she might need Margaery to help Tommen? That scene was hard to read.)

3. Meereen has a lot of cool geometrical carvings.

4. Dany thinking about what kind of ruler she wants to be and what responsibilities she has to the people she freed? THAT IS WHO SHE IS, D AND D YOU DICKS.

5. Sansa’s like “greeeeeaaaaat another creepy little kid” when she meets Robin.

6. And Lysa lets it ALL OUT about what Petyr has had her do... wow.

7. Cersei is going along with the Tyrell marriages way too easily what is her game.

8. Tywin is... almost treating his daughter like someone he can trust and have a conversation with? What is this?

9. And then there’s the stupidity about the mines running out. Wtf.

10. Arya is a little drama queen with saying the Hound’s name last while HE WAS LISTENING.

11. Lysa is SO DAMAGED. Poor Sansa.

12. Aw Brienne you don’t know what a loyal kid you’ve got in Podrick give him a chance.

13. Arya practicing water dancing is so cool.

14. Cersei and Oberyn talking is actually really interesting. And they talk about Myrcella :....( and Oberyn is TELLING THE TRUTH about her being happy.

15. Cersei got her A BOAT for her birthday because she LIKES THE OPEN WATER I had forgotten that and I am freaking out for fic reasons because of fics I haven’t written yet that involve Myrcella being good at boats.

16. Geez Pod I don’t know how to skin a rabbit but I know you need to before you cook it. And... does Brienne actually need help with that armor, or does she realize Pod needs to feel useful? I’m going with the second.

17. I had forgotten how creepy Jojen’s visions were.

18. Bran warging into Hodor and killing Locke is... problematic, but Bran had every reason to think Locke was going to kill him. Good fucking riddance.

19. Jon being happy to see Ghost XD

20. So... there’s just a troop of Crasters daughters out there still? Idek.

4x06 the laws of gods and men (and by men we mean Tywin)

1. Braavos is so pretty! I love her. I love her canals, I love the Titan, I love the domes, I just love her.

2. I remember when people lost their shit over Mark Gattis being in this episode. He is quite good here, and Davos is quite clever.

3. Salador’s joke about the red shirt is FUNNY and I’m not afraid to say so.

4. No one wants to see Ramsay having sex.

5. EVERYONE wants to see Yara giving a great speech.

6. She... ran from some dogs when she was burying her axe in dudes’ GUTS five seconds earlier? LAAAAAAME. Yes yes she also saw how fucked up in the head Theon was (more awards Alfie deserved and didn’t get), and she did want to lose any more people when he wasn’t willing to come but the way this was cut it reads like she was all OH NO DOGS which is the stupidest thing ever.

7. NOOOO POOR GOATS. I get that dragons have to eat though...

8. I cannot believe Dany didn’t take the time to FIND OUT WHICH MEEREENESE WERE LESS TERRIBLE. They would have been fucking allies. BUT NO LET’S JUST CRUCIFY PEOPLE WITH NO IDEA OF THE NUANCES OF THE LOCAL SITUATION. What stupidity.

9. At least she’s trying to learn??? She’s so small on that throne in a huge room. What a great shot.

10. Oberyn is a bisexual who CANNOT SIT IN A CHAIR NORMALLY. I am not complaining.

11. I cannot see the scene of Jaime and Tyrion walking down into the courtroom for the trial without giggling at the memory of the outtake where they dance like dorks into the room and down the aisle.

12. Jaime looking at Tyrion like YOU ARE NOT HELPING YOURSELF is a mood.

13. How did they get the poison necklace? Didn’t Littlefinger throw it in the Blackwater FAR off shore? A bit AFTER he killed Dontos? How does Pycelle have it here? Maybe they washed up together? Maybe D and D forgot Petyr tossed it in the bay? WHO KNOWS???

14. Jaime trying to convince Tywin one last time and offering to leave the kingsguard in exchange for Tyrion HOLY SHIT I FORGOT HE DID THAT. Cersei never would have spoken to him again if he’d left her and married and gone back to the Rock and given Tywin what he wanted. Jaime KNEW he was screwing over a relationship that means SO MUCH TO HIM but it’s TYRION’S LIFE we’re talking about here. That’s how much he loves his little brother.

15. Tywin is like DONE so fast Jaime barely gets the offer out lol

16. And it all would have worked if Shae hadn’t walked through those doors.

17. Do we know WHY Shae agreed to testify to this? What did Tywin offer her or threaten her with?

18. WHAT ARE YOU DOING LITTLE BRO WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS?! is Jaime’s face all the time this scene.

19. Tyrion’s “confession”is such a piece of acting wow Peter enjoy your Emmys.

4x07

1. Jeez Tyrion didn’t know Jaime COULDN’T save him. He had no idea that losing his hand had affected his abilities that badly. That... hurts.

2. Arya, Sandor, and the dying farmer is such a great scene... And Arya only killing that asshole only after Sandor learns his name for her so she knows the name of the man she’s killing.... A++ would watch again.

3. Everyone LISTEN TO JON he has seen things none of you have.

4. Tyrion finding out Bronn has been bought is so very upsetting but I love this scene.

5. But really though once Tywin named The Mountain champion, anyone who Tyrion asks to be his champion at this point he’s basically asking to die.

6. Dany’s like “well I guess fucking Daario isn’t going to cause a political disaster at least.”

7. I had forgotten how fascinating Selyse and Melisandre’s interactions are.

8. IS THAT SETTING UP BURNING SHIREEN FUCK THAT.

9. Dany is capable of nuanced thought when it comes to innocence and guilt of whole groups of people and WE JUST SAW IT with how Jorah changes her mind and I’m JUST SO ANGRY.

10. That is the only time we get the story of Sandor and the fire from his own mouth and I did not mean to be this moved.

11. Hot Pie talking about food (oh yeah and Arya) is so precious. And now I want steak and kidney pie. With gravy.

12. “Using honest feelings to do dishonest work is one of her greatest talents.” The truest thing Tyrion has ever said about Cersei.

13. What a great snow castle. Too bad Joffrey part 2 knocked it down.

14. Ew ew ew Petyr kissing Sansa is so skeevy and gross.

15. “A great deal might change between now and never” is a great line though.

16. I hate Petyr but it’s good he pushed Lysa out the Moon Door before she killed Sansa.

4x08

1. Jon and Co all reminding Sam that Gilly is a survivor is so great. Brotherhood at its best.

2. Missandei and Grey Worm are young people with old souls and their relationship is precious to me.

3. Alfie is SO GOOD at showing how deeply Ramsay has him under his control even when he’s alone with the Ironborn.

4. Petyr is part Braavosi? Fascinating.

5. Sansa TOLD the Lords of Vale who she was??? Her testimony is such a good bit of acting on Sansa’s part. It’s a lie hidden in a lot of truth, and she was QUICK to think it through and come up with it.

6. Jorah telling Dany about the pardon is a scene that breaks my heart. 💔 She is HARSH here but I love the full blown Targaryen on display.

7. Roose being like TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE like the Lion King cracks me up so hard.

8. I will never give Ramsay the Bolton name in anything I write as long as I am a fan of this show out of pure hatred. He is Ramsay Snow forever and always.

9. I remember I was so worried that they were going to have Petyr try to sexually assault Sansa. OH I WAS A SWEET SUMMER CHILD.

10. Arya laughing at the news of Lady Arryn’s Death is an immensely human reaction and I love that she just CANNOT STOP.

11. I know people hated that scene with Jaime and Tyrion talking about beetles but I have two takeaways: first, a septon tried to touch Jaime once???? Headcanon: Little Jaime looked that septon dead in the eye and said “my father wouldn’t like that” and it never happened again. The septon was summarily replaced. Second: Jaime has never thought about ANYTHING in his whole life as deeply as baby Tyrion thought about beetles.

12. Oberyn is so fun to watch fight and Jaime agrees with me.

13. You don’t need him to confess Oberyn really you don’t you GOT HIM my beautiful prince.

14. How did the Gods make their will known if BOTH champions killed each other dead, huh Tywin? (The Mountain is... less Dead?)

4x09

1. Sam mulling over the legalistic interpretation of their vows and Jon trying to explain what sex and love are like are both SO CUTE.

2. I love that everyone around that fire has heard the “Tormund fucked a bear” story and I’m kind of sorry Ygritte didn’t let him finish.

3. Maester Aemon revealing his Targaryen identity was lovely. Also Sam Cussing to get Gilly in the gate= AMAZING

4. Alliser Thorne ADMITTING HE WAS WRONG? I am dead of shock.

5. Sam and Pyp talking about fear and bravery is... so darling.

6. They have A GIANT RIDING A MAMMOTH and I will forgive a small amount of nonsense for giving me that image.

7. See Alliser looking at the horn blower like REALLY? IN THE FUCKING MIDDLE OF MY SPEECH? Before they realize it’s the horn at Castle Black is PRICELESS.

8. Speaking of which I may not like Alliser but he gives a good “let’s not die” speech.

9. Bless Grenn for getting Janos Slynt off the wall.

10. Pyp dying in Sam’s arms was not something I was ready for.

11. You’ve heard of horsepower... now get ready for MAMMOTH POWER (wildling used mammoth salesmen probably)

12. Sam remembering that being NICE to Olly when asking to go up the wall rather than just screaming at him is... telling.

13. Grenn is THE BEST KID AND I LOVE HIM

14. Ghost is going to EAT SOME WILDLINGS

15. Ygritte :...(

16. How is Tormund even ALIVE??? He’s like a frickin PIN CUSHION.

17. “They held the gate” is a line that will make me cry now. Grenn and co. Didn’t let that giant through :...(

3x10: back when D and D remembered the Children existed that one time

Also back when Jaime had a plan that didn’t end with ANY OF HIS FAMILY KILLING EACH OTHER BUT TYWIN ENDS UP DEAD ANYWAY WHY ARE WE LIKE THIS.

1. Jon deciding single-handedly that he’s going to KILL Mance Rayder. Boss move.

2. Oh FFS. Pull the stick out of your ass Stannis and let Mance be.

3. Qyburn is like “out of my way bitch I’m doing necromancy”

4. Cersei telling Tywin the truth to get out of Marrying Loras is... still... making my jaw drop and I KNEW SHE WAS GOING TO DO IT. And there’s ACTUAL EMOTION on Tywin’s face and EVERYTHING SHE SAYS ABOUT PAYING SOME REAL FUCKING ATTENTION TO HIS FAMILY IS TRUE

5. Ah yes “Jaime writes his family’s dialogue” part one. I CHOOSE YOU OMG AND SEX IN THE LORD COMMANDER’S OFFICE I CANNOT BELIEVE WE GOT THAT. Even if I’m still on the fence about whether Jaime would be ok with doing it THERE I’m mostly on board because she JUST TOLD DAD THE TRUTH AND TOLD HIM HE WAS THE ONE SHE WANTED AND I DON’T KNOW WHO LET THE SHIPPERS WRITE THIS SCENE BUT YAY.

6. Dany is still learning all kinds of nuance... I feel like the year contract thing was an attempt to balance her need to be a liberator and the reality on the ground?

7. You are telling me that the Dany who was that upset at Drogon eating ONE child let him burn a WHOLE CITY? I call bullshit.

8. Also this is a CLASSIC example of “one sibling does something wrong and the other two get punished for it” poor Viserion and Rhaegal.

9. Maester Aemon knows how to give a mass eulogy.

10. MEANWHILE NORTH OF THE NORTH HI BRAN meet the hugest weirwood in Westeros AND SOME ICE ZOMBIES

11. POOR MEERA I FORGOT SHE HAD TO HELP JOJEN DIE

12. If the children can do that WHERE ARE THEY LATER

13. holy shit bloodraven is creepy

14. Arya and Brienne meeting :) so cute

15. And Sandor being like YOU ARE TOO NAIVE TO PROTECT HER is cute in its own way.

16. Wow Brienne and Sandor really knock the shit out of each other how are they still alive.

17. Sandor saying awful things to Arya to make it easier for her to kill him was tragic and you can see the desperation in his eyes even as he says the worst of it.

18. JAIME LANNISTER MAKES DECISIONS HE WILL REGRET LATER LIKE NOT GOING ALL OF THE WAY TO THE BOAT WITH TYRION

19. I Had forgotten how rough that last conversation between Tywin and Tyrion was and how devastating those performances are.

20. Varys being like oh fuck those bells I’m going too... prescient.

21. Love the music with Arya on the ship to Braavos!

#summersea has feels about got #summersea got rewatch 2019

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kallypsowrites · 5 years

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Okay, I’ve processed the Game of thrones leaks and it’s time for KALLYPSO’S OPINION. Things are tagged and there’s more stuff under the cut.

So, just to start, I take these leaks with a grain of salt. A huge grain of salt. The leaking scandal was too big last year for HBO to not be keeping a huge eye on Friki. He’s well known at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if Friki is just speculating (since most of what he said would be pretty easy to predict). I don’t know why someone working on the show would risk their job. Also, HBO often makes sure the crew doesn’t totally know everything that is going on when they shoot it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have multiple subtitlers working on one episode to make sure no body knows everything. Bottom line, just because Friki was accurate during the leak scandal doesn’t make him accurate now.

WITH THAT SAID, let’s pretend the leaks are totally, one hundred percent real. What’s the good and the bad?

The Good:

1. Gendarya!!! I would really love to see banter between them in the first episode and the asking him to make a spear out of a dragon glass dagger would explain those trailer clips (though it also means it would be easy to speculate).

2. Arya and Jon reunion! Thank you god! And it seems positive. I keep psyching myself out and worrying it would go badly but it seems they are back to being close and I’m happy.

3. Having the Loot train battle actually mean something and not just be a pointless diversion. Like... look guys, if Sam didn’t react to his family being burned, the loot train battle didn’t mean anything or effect the plot. It didn’t even get rid of Cersei’s gold or kill Bronn. All they did was kill these two minor characters and unless it effected Sam (or created a food shortage) the loot cart battle was just an overblown set piece. So I’m glad Sam is hearing about it and seems upset about the whole thing (particularly his brother). Not sure why so many people thought Sam wouldn’t have an emotional reaction.

4. Realistic Sansa drama. Look, I don’t mind drama between women, especially when it makes sense. The Sansa and Arya conflict, while it could have made sense, was terribly written and very bad. But thus far, Sansa’s conflict with Dany seems to make sense. She doesn’t know this woman, she doesn’t know her intentions, she knows the northern lords will be pissed and Jon has put her in a difficult posistion, and Jon really did not consult any of the north about the whole bending the knee buisness. I know he’s ‘king’ and doesn’t have to be, but he was also democratically elected. Like, sure, it’s drama, but for the right reasons.

5. Dany not being immediately accepted. That would just be unrealistic, honestly. All the north is suddenly chill with dragons and a Targaryen who is the daughter of the king they helped to overthrow? She’s going to have to prove herself in the first battle to really win their respect. Good. I don’t want everyone immediately being chummy with one another, because that brushes aside a very complex political situation.

6. White walker related stuff. Seems like Tormund, Berric and Edd discover some markings that could be useful. Good that they’ll be dropping hints on how to defeat the white walkers.

7. parentage reveal at the end of the episode. Makes sense. I predicted it would be there. Good place to drop the bomb.

8. The Hound and ARya reuniting. Love their duo. Excited about that.

9. Tyrion and Sansa conversation. I like that Sansa rightly says “Cersei can’t be trusted” and she’s about to be proved VERY RIGHT when Jaime shows up. Sansa ain’t fooled by Cersei.

10. Jon and Bran reunion is cute.

THE BAD

1. Jon asks Arya for help getting Sansa to like Dany, but there was no sign of Arya interacting with Dany? How does Arya feel about Dany? Have we heard? Do we know anything. If anything, I would think Arya would be suspicious because she’s a naturally suspicious person, though it makes since she would trust Jon. Still, that seems out of the blue.

2. The pre parentage dragon riding. Some people say this is speculation and other say it happens later but if it happens here it is SO SO SO SO DUMB. Riding a dragon isn’t that easy, and frankly its a little insulting if it took Dany five seasons to bond enough with Drogon to ride him and Jon pets a dragon once (who is not Rhaegal) and can suddenly just jump on his back. Stupid, rushed, fanicky, I hate it.

3. Euron x Cersei. I can see him blackmailing her and I’ve predicted him blackmailing her by making himself the one in control of the Golden Company so that she needs him to use them. But I just don’t want to see Euron gaining sexual control over Cersei. Please no. No more of that. Gross.

4. Theon rescuing Yara. Don’t get me wrong, I want to see it, but this seems pretty early in the show and rushed. Also Euron’s line about not killing family? Bitch you killed your brother? What are you TALKING about?

5. A lot of emphasis on Jon bending the knee for love. Look, I’m not a Jonerys shipper. I actually don’t have a bone in either of the ships in the race. One of the reasons I don’t ship Jonerys is because thus far it has not been that well written in my eyes and there’s not that much chemistry (particularly on Kit’s side. Kid what are you doing with your face. If you’re in love, can you smile every once and awhile). The fact that friki says their love is obvious and love is in the air makes me wonder because is my boy Jon going to show affection? Still seems pretty grim in the trailer. I’m just wondering if they are going to be able to sell me on this romance this season and I have my doubts.

THE MISSING

1. Where the FUCK is Jaime????? You’d think he’d at least have a brief scene in this episode. Makes me skeptical considering he’s supposed to be in all six episodes (I know it said four at one point, but it was corrected later in the doc to say six).

2. Where is Brienne? Does she have a reaction to any of this? Give me my Braime reunion scene!!

3. Ghost. Give me Ghost you fucks. It’s the last season. I know you can afford a few shots of Ghost

4. The actor for Edmuere Tully is credited as being in episode one as well and he’s nowhere to be scene. is he with jaime. Did Jaime stop by the Riverlands to grab Lannister soldiers like I predicted?

5. In generaly, there are several credited characters missing from the roster. Which makes me skepitcal of leaks.

All and all, there’s nothing shocking in these leaks, except for the very dumb dragon riding thing. It’s likely he could have speculated wildly based on trailers and a few bits of information because it wouldn’t take a genius to write this. It doesn’t seem like there’s enough happening in this episode either. He probably skipped over several small interactions.

Whatever the case, I’ll believe the leaks when I see them in the episode. We shall see!

#got spoilers #game of thrones spoilers #game of thrones #got leaks #game of thrones leaks #Sansa Stark #Arya Stark #jon snow #tyrion lannister #cersei lannister #daenerys targaryen #bran stark #Samwell Tarly

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dismuch47 · 5 years

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Game of Thrones Theories

It’s always fun to throw these out there and read them again after things have gone down. So here is my revised theory list, as my predictions have altered somewhat...

ARYA STARK

Hate to say it, but I think she’s gonna die. She was obsessed with legends of heroes as a child... and now she is one: Arya Stark who disguised herself as a boy with her sword Needle, favorite of the Many Faced god, who completed revenge on those who murdered her family, killer of the untouchable Little Fnger, and slayer of dragons. I added the last one, because I KNOW she is going to kill an ice dragon with that spear. She is going to be the source of so much inspiration to bards, but she is going to be cut down in this war against the Night King. “Okay... today...” She will tell the god of Death, “But not this second...” as she does one last amazing feat to give the good guys the tipped scale they need...like a bad ass boss. Gendry will listen to her hero deeds through songs for the rest of his life, bitter sweet smile on his lips for his first love and the most bad ass woman he ever knew.

GENDRY BARATHEON

Obviously I love the Gendrya ship, that’s why they come first to my mind, but I don’t think they are fated to be together. Their love is true, but she never wanted to be a Lady in a castle. And I don’t think she’s going to survive to the very end. But I do feel that Gendry is being built up to take the iron throne. That this series is going to end how it began; the wheel will not break, but it will wear down. But this time... a Baratheon and Stark will rule... as it should have been the first time. Gendry will have bard songs to remember his first love Arya, but he will be in matrimony with Sansa. It will be a political move... but as he is kind, she is beautiful and witty... it will work. Love... not sure, but he’ll be true to her, unlike Robert. Oh... and there is still a chance that he could be legitimate...but I’ve already written about that and don’t want to take the time to write it all up again. Short version: It’s all Jamie’s fault the Cersei is crazy and Gendry was raised by a blacksmith.

SANSA STARK

There was a time that I hoped that Sansa would renew her marriage to Tyrion, for numerous reasons (I might have shipped them at one point..), but I feel that Sansa is no longer bewitched by the idea of being married for the sake of love. It is obvious that the north looks to her as their level-headed ruler, and she becomes more and more like her mother every day... so I feel that she’s going to be on the throne... and pressured to marry Gendry Baratheon. They will have a long winter to turn him into the king figurehead he needs to be... but Sansa is the one pulling the strings and whose council he trusts. It will be political, but they could grow to lust for each other and...who knows... love? The fact that they both love Arya (though for different reasons) is just more common ground.

BRAN STARK

I don’t care. But I feel like the three-eyed raven does more harm then good. Pushes people away. And when his plan totally fails, we’ll see that everything was going to play out exactly the way it would have even without his “help.” Hello I can see everything that has already happened: WORST SUPER POWER EVER. Seriously, warg some crap to make things better for everyone instead of making them feel self-conscious for things they can’t control! I truly believe that the death of the “memory of man” is a good thing...all these prophecies and fates make everyone feel trapped... instead of letting everyone carve their future with bold uncertainty. I’m calling it now... death of three-eyed Raven is a GOOD thing. It will help wear down, or break the cycle.

JON SNOW

He never wanted the throne, and I don’t think him finding out who he is has changed that. It’s only there to add drama and tension. I do feel that he’s going to have to play out that prophecy of killing his beloved, Daenerys... because DRAMA. He’s going to end up either taking their boat baby elsewhere to be raised or he’s going to die. I would like to think he would survive... because I don’t think Dany is going to make it... and the dragon line will continue... though maybe not with the dragons...

MOTHER OF DRAGONS

She dead. The days of commanding mythical creatures and magical people are coming to an end. Drogon will die by the Night King’s Dragon, which will be able to HURT DANY WITH IT’S FLAMES since it is not regular fire... so her mortality in battle will come as a hard blow. Strip her of the muscle, which was gained with muscle and dragons, take away dragons and you have a very vulnerable woman with no real know-how to lead or inspire loyalty. So really, in my opinion, her usefulness is going to run shockingly low once the NK army mows over her 3,000 like nothing. Except for drama. So... boat baby and turning against Jon...and having to be killed by him...for....yah now. DRAMA. I’m sorry, but I’m just over her.

CERSEI LANNISTER

I think Jamie will be responsible for her death, but not in the way that we think. I think she is going to legit kill him. And possibly his gold hand will come into play of her death...whether by being bludgeoned by it (*cough* by Brie of Tarth *cough*) or being melted down into a sentimental weapon to killer her with (*cough* by Brie of Tarth *cough*).

SIR BRIENNE OF TARTH

Oh she gonna LIVE, baby. She gonna team up with The Hound to take down The Mountain. She gonna put the Mad Queen down. And then she gonna be head of the King’s guard. Because that’s how you crush the wheel of sexism, baby!

JAMIE LANNISTER

Dead. Just... dead. He’s gotten redemption, he’s pissed off Cersei and at times is responsible for her madness... so... dead. It’s time. And I’m sure it will be sentimental and in the arms of a gorgeous lady knight which is more than he deserves... Or crumpled up by the Mountain.

TYRION LANNISTER

He’s my fav. He’s my boy. But I don’t know if he’s gonna make it. How nice would it be if he did... that the one that everyone mocks as being weak and useless and ugly makes it out on top...but I just don’t know. If he doesn’t make it, may it be on his witty terms, and not like a coward.

BRONN

Dead.

THEON GREYJOY

I don’t want him to die... because his redemption has been heartbreaking and sincere, but I also don’t want him to live with the memory of what he’s been through. I could see him dying honorably, and it would be a sigh of relief to him.

YARA GREYJOY

You go get that fishy throne! You’re doing amazing sweetie.

NIGHT KING

So I’ve always had a theory that the white walkers and the long winters are basically a reset button for mankind when things get too immoral, incesty, and just unbalanced...so while they are terrifying and it seems horrible that they take infants for their army and slaughter thousands.. look at what the human kingdoms are doing: burning little girls, sacrificing infants, slaughters at weddings, using imprisoning and torturing in the name of righteousness, brother and sister joining in lust, conquerors called messiahs... it’s an unholy mess and the white walkers are like “yucccccck... let’s just mow this over and see if anything worthy crops back up in the spring...” This whole summer verses winter... it’s a tale as old as time: death must come in order to purify for a hopeful spring. It’s a cycle...and I think that the walkers are apart of the cycle when it comes to mankind. But if they are defeated, then mankind is going to be left to face it’s own morality issues, rather than blame an ultimate evil. Can mankind even handle that? And then there’s the theory that the NK is just cruising for a queen, which I find reasonable. And if he is...it’s going to be a Stark, as a call out to the Stark Crow that went mad for a White Walker Queen.

So those are some predictions. It will be interesting to see who gets killed tonight...

#got spoilers #theories

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cornacopicimagines · 7 years

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sansa knows best

pairing: jon snow x reader

prompts: 10,25,44,65

words: 1.6k

requested: @high-functioning-sociopath8

an: you might ship the reader and sansa of this,, sorry not sorry ;) ps i changed the request a little but, soz

masterlist

y/n had been happily strolling through the thick snowy ground of Winterfell. She admired most of the carving that had been perfectly etched into the stone. She felt oddly at home when she was at Winterfell. She was born in King's Landing to a hardworking whore that unfortunately feel pregnant with her. Though she would never speak of her heritage to another living soul, being a woman was hard but one that was also a bastard would have her being hit left and right with rotten tomatoes.

She made it through none the less and was finally happy with a new family of the Starks. She had been splendid that Ned and Catelyn were kind enough to let Y/n become an adopted child of theirs. She had made all of the other Stark children fall for her sweet demeanour and charms, though she was older than half of them she still found peace when strolling with Sansa or exploring with Arya.

y/n loved Winterfell with all of her heart, she fought for the North and she will be happy to die for it anytime.

"y/n, I never thought you'd be admired these walls," a soft voice spoke, y/n could sense a small drop of humour and quickly turned to face the person. There paced towards her was the red-head herself. Sansa had been smiling at her as if they had just gotten back from stealing her father's coat or robe. y/n happily brought Sansa into her grasp.

The two women held onto each other for a lasting moment before Sansa entangled their arms together and waltzed off to unknown places.

"I know I asked this yesterday, but how are you Sansa," y/n beamed lightly as she still had her eyes trained on the ground beneath her. Usually, if Sansa was in the company of another person other than y/n she would tell them to call her your lady, but to her she simply always let it slide.

"I am doing quite well now that Ramsay is dead," Sansa smiled brightly sighing out of relief as y/n peered u with hopeful eyes.

"Is it true, you fed him to his own hounds?" y/n asked quickly as she longingly awaited an answer from her auburn friend.

Sansa simply drew her orbs to y/n's and brought her face close to her face and whispered, "and I enjoyed every minute of it," Sansa pulled away and let out small chuckles as y/n copied her noise.

"He was a bloody pain in the arse if you ask me," y/n scoffed. Ever since Sansa married Ramsay all she wanted to do was shove a hot iron down his throat to shut him up. She always respected Sansa and still will, that was the only thing restraining her.

"I know, how do you think I felt, I was his fucking wife," Sansa spewed out in and the two girls burst out in laughter, y/n was clutching onto her dress for dear life as she couldn't breathe from laughing too hard and it seemed Sansa was in the same position.

"It seems you have horrible luck with men," y/n seered out as the pair continued to make their way to the main gardens. "I mean, Joffery was psychotic and Ramsay was abusive," y/n scoffed as she threw her head away from Sansa, "I would make a better husband, and I'm a woman!" y/n snorted loudly. They had already walked straight into the main gardens of Winterfell and the girls' eyes fell onto Jon as he was slashing down a much larger man than him.

"Speaking of love, when are you finally going to admit your feelings?" Sansa spoke roughly as she rolled her eyes at y/n while she still had her eyes glued on Jon. He was throwing his sword so gracefully that y/n's heart started to beat faster and louder that she swore she could hear it.

"I don't have feelings for Jon, that insane," y/n scoffed as she finally tore her attention away from Jon. Both girls had heard Jon courageously spoke that no one could defeat him in combat. Suddenly an idea popped into y/n mind. Starting to smirk widely, she drew her long sword from its holster. "I'll prove that I don't have feelings for Jon," y/n beamed mischievously and ran towards the large circle surrounding the dark-haired man.

"Ah lady y/n, come to enjoy the show?" Jon smirked widely.

"Oh I have, I've come to enjoy the view of your ass flat on the ground," y/n retorted as she stood her ground.

"Then prove it," he mimicked her stance.

The pair started to fling their steel towards each other, but being careful not to stab the opponent. It seemed the y/n was winning, she was running Jon into a corner when she went to slash him and Jon ducked behind her and quickly tore her footing. Jon laughed loudly as y/n got a mouth full of snow almost numbing her mouth. Sansa ad stepped through the thick cheering crowd and watched closely to the movements of Jon and y/n.

Angrily y/n stood back up and charged towards Jon and went to swing once again but luckily for Jon, he had already caught onto her feminine steps and turned to block the weapon. This went on for a while, one would try to strike the other, but they would stop the winning blow. It wasn't until Jon peered over to see Sansa looking straight at him then to y/n, implying suggestive themes. Immediately y/n took this time to take the blow at him.

Once again Jon thankfully locked the blow, except this time y/n face was so close to his that he could kiss her, which would be a bad thing to him. The two didn't stride away from each other but instead just gazed into each other's eyes and breathing heavily.

"I think it's a draw," Jon whispered huskily at her, making y/n knees wobbled slightly.

"I wouldn't be surprised," y/n quickly spoke back with confidence in tone. Both finally stepped away, as y/n took a boastful bow and strided away.

Sansa had made her way up to Jon, he slowly peered up to her and smiled lightly towards her.

"Talk to her," Sansa spoke harshly as her pale arms were drawn around her waist. Jon stopped midst in his tracks and started to avoid Sansa's hardening gaze on him.

"Who?" Jon had decided to play dumb with his sister even though he knew it would get him killed.

"For fuck's sake, y/n!" Sansa cried out as she threw her hands on her temple and rubbed softly. "Talk to y/n, so you can finally get with her,"

"I don't know what you talking about," Jon spoke lowly as he walked into the under decks of the courtyard.

"Don't play dumb with me, Jon," she was hot on his tracks and still she was angrily glaring at him. "You two are completely oblivious, everyone in fuckin' Winterfell is for it," Sansa explained still she couldn't match her eyes with his as Jon continued to glance away. "It's almost sickening how the both of you tease each other and gaze longingly if you need more reasons to man up; she likes you back," this peaked Jon's interest in the conversation.

"Really?" Jon smiled brightly at his sister.

"Gods, you really are oblivious," Sansa smirked widely.

"I'm going to talk to her right now," Jon beamed widely as he almost full sprinted up to her room and rushed to place three loud knocks on her wooden door. Jon stood there in complete silence as he waited for y/n to open the door.

The faster Jon's heart pumped the small steps to the entrance got louder when suddenly her bright face open it to meet with Jon's exasperated expression.

"Jon, come to mope about your defeat," y/n smirked as she placed her long arms at the bottom of her chest, pushing up her cleavage making Jon even more nervous.

"More or less, can I come in,' Jon spoke fully as he still tried to avert his eyes from her chest. She pulled one of her arms away and fled it inside, giving permission. Jon quickly ran inside wanted to avoid any public embarrassment if Sansa was wrong.

"I need to talk to you about something," Jon rushed out, almost frightening y/n in the process.

"Of course, but could you do me a favour?" y/n asked softly, painted a deep red on Jon's cheeks. She turned around slowly and pulled her h/c locks from her back and exposed the zip on her dress. "Can you unzip this for me?"

"Anything for you," Jon said softly, he froze on the spot as he meant to say that in his head. He still slowly pulled the zip down from y/n's neck to the curves of her bum, he tried to pull his eyes away from her back, it was until y/n turned around to face him.

"What did you want to tell me?" she spoke softly as her e/c orbs flew up to his.

For some reason, Jon couldn't get a single word out even though he had teased her on countless occasions. He had subconsciously flirted with her multiple times yet now he couldn't utter a word even a noise, all he could do was look at her blankly and more admiringly than even and it seemed y/n caught wind of his position.

She reached up to his, placed of her soft palms on his rugged cheeks and brought her lips to his and pushed lightly on them.

Jon stood there for a split second before he roughly snaked his arms around her waist and pulled her closer, pushing his lips harder against hers. They both continued to bask in each others glory, while the kissed.

Jon and y/n were so heated in that exact moment that they hadn't realised that Sansa was right outside leaning against the door frame with a wide smirk on her pale face. The couple turned swiftly to look at her.

"This isn't what it looks like," y/n spoke shyly a prominent blush forming on her cheeks.

"Actually it is," Jon shrugged as she swooped back into her kiss and started to lap at her once more. Sansa simply smiled even brighter as she turned around and closed the door slowly while doing a small victory dance outside.

Still, the pair hadn't turn away from each other and were still going at it, until Jon threw his arms underneath y/n legs and picked her up into his arms.

"Jon, please put me down," y/n yelled at him through stilled giggles and continuous kiss.

"As you wish," Jon spoke happily as he threw y/n on her cushioned bed and crawled over the top of her to continue a full night of concealed love that has finally been set free.

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kitten1618x · 7 years

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So Many Spoilers And Yet, Jonsa Is Still Endgame

Okay my loves. Everyone close your eyes and take a deep, calming breath. Better? No? Well then, let's continue ...

It seems that no matter where you turn, the internet has been brimming with GoT spoilers. Some seem plausible, some utterly ridiculous, others written like straight up fanfiction. Since then, my inbox has been flooded with nervous Jonsa shippers, and while I would love to answer each one of you individually, I'm only one person. That doesn't mean you should stop sending me asks -at the risk of repeating myself, I've just decided to compile all of my current thoughts here.

Here's your warning right now that this post contains SPOILERS. Whether or not they are factual spoilers, remains to be seen.

Something smells funny

The whole way this leaks situation has unfurled is quite ...odd. Supposed spoilers of the whole season have been available on Reddit for months now, and yet HBO was mum about the whole thing until just a few days ago. Now they are claiming to have been hacked (which I actually do believe), yet they only confirm that episode 4's script was hacked. I've seen it, and it seems plausible -yet it was only one scene (is the entire episode going to be just one scene??). Why they still haven't spoken about the rest of the alleged leaks seems silly to me -especially since so far they have lined up with the show we've seen -minus context, of course. It would be so simple (especially in light of the recent hack job) to just release a public statement -"yeah, we fucked up but we're stepping up security." WHY WON'T THEY ADDRESS THE LEAKS? We all know they know that they're out there. Just something for you to marinate on.

Boatbang

So I'm not going to mince words. I've already stated on several occasions that I'm 97% sure that boatbang is going to happen (although the percentage varies, I'm still pretty positive it's inevitable). I know it's disheartening for Jonsa shippers, because on some level we feel like Jon is being unfaithful to Sansa, but in reality he's not. Sansa is his half-sister. We know it to be otherwise, but the characters do not. Until that little nugget drops, prepare for this ship to go submarine mode -as in humming just under the water's surface (torpedoes armed and ready to sink the SS Targcest).

Why Jon, why?

There are several things to consider here. Dany is an attractive woman, and Jon is not blind -she's also not his sister. Yes, yes, we know she's his aunt -but again, he doesn't. If he's injured and she saves his life (depending on what leaks you believe, I suppose -yes, several versions are floating around) -he may feel gratitude to her -or sympathy if she lost one of her "dragon children" saving his life. There's also the Targ connection which might be mistaken for something deeper than just familial, and that whole pesky incest gene working against him.

My personal opinion is it will be good old fashioned lust. So here's this lovely woman, with powerful Dragons who agrees to help him in his cause. They just got their asses kicked and are facing some pretty grim odds here -he very well may die, poor boys been fighting all his damn life, now he's getting squicky strange urgings for his own "sister", and he's only been laid once in his life! Hell, I'd fuck her too! Especially if I wouldn't be breaking my little "no bastards" vow, and the girl claimed to be barren from a witches curse.

One argument I keep hearing is that it would be so ooc for Jon to do this. Sure, I guess it would. Now take everything I just mentioned above and apply it here. Makes for a better argument, huh? I refuse to fault Jon for having a sexual tryst when he's essentially a free man and could very well just be starved for some simple human affection. If you would hold this against him, it's really just silly.

The bastard who's actually a Prince

Supposedly, the scene of Rhaegar and Lyanna's "legitimate" wedding is going to play immediately after the boatbang concludes -much like the reveal of Jon's true parentage immediately following the Jonsa ramparts scene. You remember, the one where Jon kisses Sansa's forehead for like 20 minutes and then glances down at her lips like he wants to suck her face off? Yeah, that scene that screamed !siblings!

Now, I've seen people speculating (ahem, the other ship) this is meant to show the audience how J/D are star-crossed lovers, and they're meant to be (and if I shipped them, I'd try to convince myself this as well). But really, it's showing that Jon, the TRUE heir to the Iron Throne has just become his Auntie D's rival, not lover.

Come on, you all know some sort of Targbowl is on the horizon. Through all her loss and heartache, what has kept Dany going? Her claim to the IT. She was born to rule the 7k's ("and she will"). Do you think she'll let Jon and his little pecker stand in the way?

Drogo was her one true love. Remember Dany's visions when she was in the House of the Undying? Of the snowy IT in the destroyed throne room, that was just out of reach, and then of Drogo and Rhaego on the other side of the wall? It makes me feel like Dany will die on the other side of the wall, and that's when she'll be reunited with her family -in the meantime, they wait in purgatory. But, that's a meta for another day.

But I feel like this (below) -the words the witch spoke to her, has something to do with the Long Night and being reunited with Drogo again, in death (the afterlife).

"When the sun rises in the west, sets in the east, when the seas go dry. When the mountains blow in the wind like leaves".

The wall falling? The snow and ice from the mountain would blow in the wind like leaves .... But again, another day for that -back to the topic at hand.

Who's the REAL red herring?

On one hand, we have a very rushed "romance" between two virtual strangers. One of them is currently holding the other against their will ...gosh, this is soooo romantic! If that was my ship, I'd be kinda pissed. Yeah, they're going to get a sex scene -let them have it. We have endgame.

On the other hand, we have a very slow burn romance simmering in the background. We have ALL the subtle beauty of season 6, and that belligerent sexual tension at the start of this season. If you're shipping them, it's obvious you've seen it too, so I really don't have to list it all -but my GOD, romance tropes GALORE! Slip in all the Ned/Cat parallels, and the exquisite beauty that was the crypt scene with LF ...I mean, come on guys? Do I really have to break this all down for you?

Need more examples? Okay, how about the Tyrion convo in the last episode? Totally appropriate for him to ask Jon about Sansa's wellbeing -so what do we make of the whole "sham and unconsummated" bit that was completely unnecessary if all they wanted to establish to the GA is that Sansa is clever. I sound like a broken record, but if anyone can explain to me how that furthers the narrative in any way, I'm all ears and my inbox is open.

To put it quite simply -it doesn't! But, you can try ....as I said, my inbox is open.

It was solely to remind us of the crypt scene, and Jon's odd behavior concerning Sansa. Just as her cloak on his shoulders -the cloak that he wasn't wearing when he arrived on Dragonstone (nor was he or Davos carrying it) miraculously appeared when he was brooding on the cliffs about what a fool he was. A cookie for anyone who guesses who he was thinking about -maybe the one who told him this was a trap? As he's trapped there now, since Dany took his boat.

And if we didn't already know that Jon will bring Sansa up with Theon next ep., I would have told you that she would come up -as she will when Jon meets the Hound as well. Why? Because the writers want to remind us not to forget about her. They want us to know that she's in the back of Jon's mind through all of this. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear her speak of him more as well. Of course, we never really know what's going on with Sansa, because the people who release the leaks are all closeted J/D shippers.

But let's remember that a red herring is something BLATANT. Ya know, like a rushed romance that's RIGHT IN YOUR FACE -not a submarine simmering under the waves.

Sansa is not Jon's second choice

I'm really tired of hearing this, tbh. If you can't see that these Ned/Cat parallels are meant to show that Sansa and Jon already have that established love and trust factor that Ned and Cat built, then you're willfully blind.

Could a political marriage be what initially puts them together -sure. But with all the clues you've been given from the writers, do you think that they don't already feel the stirrings of love for each other? I mean, it's awkward and odd, but it's there. Clearly, we've only really been shown this through Jon so far, but I'm willing to bet we'll start getting some clues from Sansa by early next season (or maybe even late this season). Remember Bran has not revealed Jon's parentage to anyone, yet. If they were just going to throw them together politically and loveless, then there would be no reason for them to waste precious time (as we're coming to the end and every little bit we see matters) laying the groundwork for a romantic subplot -they'd just do it.

It kind of blows my mind that the same people who say that Jon would never sleep with someone he didn't have some sort of feelings for, thinks he'd enter into a loveless marriage -to sleep with someone he doesn't have feelings for? They'll need heirs after all. You see what I just did there? ;)

Come on guys, this is Jon

How do you think he's going to react when he finds out he slipped one in his aunt? Probably about as shitty and ashamed as he feels right now, harboring unnatural feelings for his "sister". He's not going to be like -ahh fuck it, I'm half Targ. No biggie! This is Jon-motherfucking-Snow!! He may not be Ned's son, but Stark blood runs through his veins, and he is indeed, a Stark.

Jonsa is endgame. We all know what we saw. There's millions of words worth of metas floating all around Tumblr about it. Casual viewers have seen it. People who don't ship it, have seen it. My husband (who hates it), has seen it. Reviewers have seen it.

It's intentionally subtle, but it's there.

REMEMBER THAT LEAKS LACK ACTUAL CONTEXT!!!

I think I've covered everything, but EVERYONE, please reblog and add your own supporting evidence.

RELAX. Take that collective chill I keep talking about, and find your zen. Enjoy the show. Remember why you started watching it in the first place -it wasn't for Jonsa. Find the silver lining and enjoy Kit's naked bits (because ffs I intend to)!!

Oh, and if I haven't made myself perfectly clear ...Jonsa is endgame, it is known, spread the word. ❤️

#jonsa #jonsa meta #jonsa is endgame #jon x sansa

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howlinwolfwb · 7 years

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WILL WE SEE A MARRIAGE BETWEEN JON AND SANSA IN GAME OF THRONES?

And will the pairing that a lot of fans already want be the one that we all need?

A few book readers speculated that a political marriage between Jon Snow and Sansa Stark would be not only possible, but the best thing for House Stark, and maybe even for each other. However, the idea of any kind of match between them was a quiet cult theory, until season 6 of Game Of Thrones, which set Twitter and Tumblr on fire with the idea of the “Jonsa” romance ship. In this article, I’m going to go through as many reasons as I have discovered for this potential pairing, the foreshadowing that a lot of people might have overlooked, and why readers and viewers should think twice before completely dismissing the idea.

As I am starting with the books, I’ll go ahead and start at the very beginning, before the books were written. In George R. R. Martin’s outline for the series, he had a love triangle in the works, between Jon, Tyrion, and Arya. Even before the first book was finished, he had plans for Jon to wed a Stark cousin. The outline states on the subject:

“Arya will be more forgiving... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.”

Given what I am about to lay out in this article, there seems to be a strong chance of GRRM having kept the cousin love triangle, but switched at least the sister, if not the other man (Jon/Tyrion[Littlefinger]/Sansa).

Jon and Sansa began their stories, and left Winterfell, with very similar ideas and worldviews, despite their differing personalities. Both were not just young, heady, and optimistic; both believed in the songs they were sung to as children, but in the heroes the songs described. Both had fantasies of a quieter life and family that, conspicuously, left each other out, and synchronized perfectly with each other.

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister’s son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly’s boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We’d find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance’s son and Craster’s would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb. He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. - A Storm Of Swords - Jon XII

This is a fantasy Jon had, ostensibly about Val, the Wildling sister of Mance Rayder’s wife, whom Jon was infatuated with, at the time. However, she does not feature at all after a cursory mention of stealing her away. He fantasized much more about the hypothetical family than her, and both that fact, and his fantasy-family makeup, is very telling, in three ways. 1. This fantasy is a direct and near-perfect recreation of the Stark household that he remembers, with him as the new Neddish patriarch. 2. He is not fantasizing about a Wildling girl who walks through Walker territory like it ain’t no thang, or a warrior girl, or a highborn princess, or even a platinum-haired nude dragon queen. He is fantasizing about Val as a mother, and more importantly, as not only the mother he knew (Catelyn), but how he wished Catelyn to be. 3. Most women that we read about in aSoIaF or watch in GoT do not share this fantasy; Westerosi girls tend to be action girls. The only female character who had any kind of similar fantasy, let alone one that synchronizes nearly perfectly to Jon’s, is Sansa:

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa’s dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya. - A Storm Of Swords - Sansa

Although they fantasized about different people ostensibly (Jon-Val; Sansa-Willas/Loras Tyrell), both fantasies complete the other, and tell very similar stories about each of them. Both think that love is an addendum to marriage, and something that needs to be worked on. They both disregard the personalities of their interest for what they remember of their mother and father. They both recreate their dead and missing siblings, with exceptions. Robb, Arya, Bran and Rickon are noted, as well as even a Ned. The only figures missing are themselves and each other.

What makes this so extremely notable is not just that the fantasies click perfectly together. It’s not even that Jon’s always wanted exactly this, even from the start, when he dared not wish for his own family. What makes this truly meaningful, is that there is only one girl in all of Westeros who knows what growing up in Winterfell was like, and who wants the same thing as him, and is not yearning for adventure, vengeance, a throne, or power, let alone above this desire.

Just as Sansa is the only person who fits the bill for Jon, Jon is the only man who has lived up perfectly to Sansa’s fantasies and dreams of heroic knights in shining armor.

��Sweet one,” her father said gently, “listen to me. When you’re old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who’s worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me.” - A Game Of Thrones - Sansa

Curiously, although Prince Aemon Targaryen is a historical character in the Ice & Fire/Thrones universe, Prince Aemon is also the role Jon would take in childhood mock jousts with Robb; judge for yourself if that’s a coincidence.

“I’m Prince Aemon the Dragonknight,” Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, “Well, I’m Florian the Fool.” -A Storm of Swords – Jon XII

(Sidenote - foreshadowing with other foreshadowing: if you think about it, Robb literally died a fool. He got himself, and Cat, killed for love, when he could've married the Frey girl, gotten safe passage from the Freys, and marched towards Kings Landing to avenge his father and rescue Sansa. But we all know what he was thinking with instead of his brain…)

Jon is by every and all accounts the valiant and heroic knight Sansa wished and pined for, as a dreamy 11-year-old girl. Before I continue, I have to add that the men of the Night’s Watch are often referred to as The Black Knights.

Jon has all of the qualities of the kind of man Ned described to her, as well as all of the qualities of the kind of man she’d always wanted; both as a young, wistful girl dreaming of Aemon the Dragonknight making Queen Naerys his lady love, and the shattered, hardened, and disaffected woman she’s grown to become. She has discarded her fairy tales, because she has realized, through firsthand experience, that those fairytales are not nearly as pretty as they sound. The fairytales are horrifying; they are soaked in the blood and tears of the events and people they describe. Jon is the only character who can fulfill both the dreams and fantasies of 11-year-old Sansa, and the disillusioned young woman who’s never until now known a true hero. No other character in either aSoIaF or GoT can do the same:

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. "Life is not a song, sweetling," he'd told her. "You may learn that one day to your sorrow." In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound's voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. "Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants." - A Game Of Thrones - Sansa VI

That he did, albeit with poor grace, crossing his arms, scowling, and ignoring the naked steel in his lord commander's hands. Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt's ugly head from his body. All of a man's crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well. - A Dance With Dragons - Jon II

Not long after, in the same chapter, Jon does the deed:

Emmett kicked his legs out from under him. Dolorous Edd planted a foot on his back to keep him on his knees as Emmett shoved the block beneath his head. "This will go easier if you stay still," Jon Snow promised him. "Move to avoid the cut, and you will still die, but your dying will be uglier. Stretch out your neck, my lord." The pale morning sunlight ran up and down his blade as Jon clasped the hilt of the bastard sword with both hands and raised it high. "If you have any last words, now is the time to speak them," he said, expecting one last curse.

Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. "Please, my lord. Mercy. I'll … I'll go, I will, I …"

No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended.

Their geographic and psychological journeys are near-perfect mirrors of each other. Sansa heads south while Jon goes north. Sansa becomes Lady Lannister, then a bastard (an identity at least partially crafted on her ideas of Jon); then, in the show, Lady Bolton, and finally the Lady of Winterfell. Jon, meanwhile, goes from Bastard, to Jon Stark (in Robb’s will, which Jon hasn’t seen or heard about), to Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, and in the show, finally, King in the North. Both have to pretend they want nothing to do with their previous lives (Sansa as a prisoner in KL, and Jon with the Wildlings). Both have to essentially fake it to make it, as Sansa tries to actively forget she is not Alayne Stone, and Jon is tempted to stay with the Wildlings. Through all of this, they both try to cling to certain things. Even after abandoning their childhood idealisms to make hard choices, and even through the processes of grieving for their family, as well as trying to become different people, they both have always held notions of justice, fairness, and even compassion close to their hearts and minds.

Also, out of all the surviving Starks, only Sansa sensed Jon’s death:

“There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, as big as mountains.” - A Feast For Crows - Sansa’s final chapter

As soon as news of Jon’s parentage comes out in the North, his claim to Winterfell will be, at the very least, heavily debated among and contested by the Northern lords. Although half Stark, he is not the son of Eddard, but of Lyanna. On top of that, he has a Targaryen father. Seeing as the Mad King killed Ned’s father Rickard Stark, and Ned's brother Brandon. The Northern lords will have no loyalty to a Targaryen. Jon/Sansa would be both an excellent twist of the kind that aSoIaF/Got are known for, and mutually beneficial for the both. Their marriage would secure Jon’s claim to the North, unite the North as it needs to be for the War for the Dawn, and secures the safety and place at Winterfell for both. Also, as she says in the books, “No one will ever marry me for love.” It’s a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless; every and all other Lords would want to marry her for her claim to Winterfell. Jon, though, would never force Sansa to marry anyone. He knows what she’s been through. He cares for her, and would never hurt her in any way. Sansa knows this, and it might just be what will drive her to suggest they marry. Jon needs a Queen either way, to keep the Stark bloodline going. I will even go so far as to say this: I think that the northern lords will want to make Sansa their Queen after they find out about Jon’s parentage, in which case, same thing; she’ll need to keep the Stark bloodline going. Add to that him being a Targaryen, and she a Stark, they would literally be uniting not only the North, but the South too. Soon, every person in the whole of at least Westeros will find out about the Night’s King and the White Walkers. It is this exact moment that the North will need stability, and hope. A union between Sansa and Jon would give the northerners nothing less or other than that. Jon is a great commander. He is brave, and honorable, and he will do all he can to keep Sansa and all the northerners safe. He’ll fight for them. The prospect, the reassurance, and after the battle is over and the war is won, Winterfell and the North will be rebuilt, by its people with the support and help of their King and Queen. Everything points to their union. The prospect, the reassurance, that after the battle is over, after the war is won, Winterfell, the North will be rebuilt, by its people with the support and help of their King and Queen. Everything that points to a good resolution for the stories of Ice & Fire, and Thrones, points to their union.

Even on Thrones, David Benioff and Dan Weiss have planted an insane amount of seeds for Jonsa. Not only for a political union, but in season 6 set the internet on fire with gooey Jonsa romantic tension, with gems such as this moment, from s6e5 (The Door):

Jon: New dress? Sansa: I made it myself, do you like it? Jon: Yeah, well, it’s—I like the wolf bit.

Brothers awkwardly fumbling for words to compliment their half-sister’s dress? Not something you see everyday. This scene was unnecessary, but D&D included it, I’ll allege for a reason. I'm not necessarily saying that Jon is in love with Sansa here, but the tension between them and their interactions are very awkward, and not how they should be between two people who think they are brother and sister. Also, this is not something a brother says to a sister in danger:

Jon: I won’t ever let him touch you again. I’ll protect you. I promise. (From s6e9 - Battle Of The Bastards)

Again, a bizarre choice of words, if Jonsa is not a component of the story. Brothers say things like “ I will never let him hurt you again”, or “tell me where he is”. Let’s not forget most of their scenes have them speaking while being surrounded by warm candle light and with soft focus; quite a romantic atmosphere for two SIBLINGS. The way their scenes were shot, do not only mirror Ned’s and Cat’s, but also Robb’s and Talisa’s. I find it hard to believe D&D wrote and shot their scenes the way they did accidentally. They wanted to do one of either two things: either set Twitter and Tumblr on fire with Sophie and Kit’s chemistry; or, subtly, put this notion into our heads, have us talk about it, and speculate. Whichever they did, it obviously worked, thus introducing us to the idea, and actually preparing us for it.

PS I thought that @castaliareed and @fedonciadale would be interested in this meta; I hope it’s good for a 1st.

#jonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #jon x sansa #game of thrones #got7 #ned stark #catelyn stark #got

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dachi-chan25 · 7 years

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Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 6 Recap Pt. 1

Oh boy… I need to vent again, I’m sorry, but thanks to everyone reading this, it’s a cathartic experience if anything.

WARNINGS: SPOILERS; Not a D@€ny fan, but if you follow me you already know that and if you don’t no problem that’s why I always warn you about it; Jonsa shipper and still growing strong ( I always loved the Tyrell OK???)

Before diving into the recap:

1.- The toughts, tinfoily wishy washy stuff, analysis, random stuff that I write are my own only, and in no form or way am I trying to convince you that I am right and every body else is wrong, I have been wrong about fandom stuff a LOT, and really it’s just fun for me to do this, anyway I am open to debate if you want just be respectful. Feel free to correct me if you notice I have some facts I present wrong, I will never get mad about it and will even thank you for your insight.

2.- The analysis/opinions I express of certain ships/characters are just my opinion as an audience, if you like the ship/characters good! That’s what makes the fandom experience such a diverse thing, and I have nothing against you. Keep on loving the thing you love!

3.- The Salt Throne and I are one entity of pure undiluted Salt and bitterness,if you don’t wish to subject yourself to reading my salty fangirl rants I completely understand.

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1.- We start on that table-map, helI feel I condemned myself saying I didn’t wanted no more close-ups of the thing, anyway so it’s just a pretty shot to get to where the story (plot? What plot?) really pick’s up: Eastwatch by the sea.

We are with the suicide squad on this show’s dumbest mission, but then again this season a lot of dumb things happened so I am resigned. Yeah so Jon and Tormund are talking about how dumb this mission is (got is breaking the fourth wall now???) while Gendry is freezing, Tormund is happy to be back North of the Wall cuz the air in the south is shit, Jon is like bih you never went south but really is agreeing actually Jon seems much more himself now that he is in the North again. Tormund and Jon tease Gendry about making do with him cuz there are no ladies here (ahaha joking about experiencing homosexual sex but no homo bro it’s just because we have no ladies amirite? Am I watching got or the big b4ng th€or¥?) and you know what else they don’t have?? Horses, and food, and those pesky dragonglass weapons, and a raven to send for help should anything happen… But no ladies are the priority. (*sigh* this show is so painfully obviously written by man) Gendry apparently believes them and goes away, Tormund comments he isn’t very bright, he needn’t be says Jon cuz they need the brawn and not the brains right? No this stupid ass mission could have seriously used some brains.

Anyway this next convo of conversations was very intresting to hear, not because they add anything to the plot (if such a thing exists anymore in this show) but I think they are important in understanding the theme they have in common and the relevance I think they have in the final scenes of the episode.

First we have a Tormund/Jon convo, our funny redhead asks about the Dragon Queen, and I expected they would use this chance to make some crude remark about her beauty or her body (dude not a second ago they were joking about bedding Gendry!!) but no, the conversation never goes in the direction that could further the idea of Jon’s attraction to D, Jon trusts Tormund and it would be normal for bros to discuss this stuff (remember how Jon giggled about Tormund mentioning Brienne last episode), instead a very weary and frustrated Jon states she (D) wouldn’t help unless he bends the knee, Tormund says that won’t happen cuz Jon spent so much time with the Wildings to be a kneeler again, but then he moves on to talk about Mance Ryder (dude this Jon/Mance parallels are hitting me in the face like a cold fish, I know D&D I noticed! You haven’t been subtle about this!!! You used the same FUCKING dialogue) and how the dude could have saved a lot of lives if he just had let go of his pride and knelt (so Tormund is our Jon in this parallel ain’t he?) it just made me laugh that Tormund, a wildling cuz they are still Free Folk and rule themselves even if they have an alliance with the KitN, is the one to suggests kneeling, but then I realized how big of a fucken deal that is, Mance could have saved those lives yes (and that’s mere speculation honestly cuz Stannis and his army could have also died at Hardhome #just saying) but he decided keeping his people’s will was more important, Jon respected that to the point he defyied Stannis (they needed his help and dude had just saved them) openly by killing Mance, and now Tormund who is kind of the new Free Folk king/leader is saying it would have been OK if he knelt to save everyone’s lives in front of Jon whom is in a very similar situation.

Then we get a Jorah/Jon convo, again perfect oportunity to show them as D’s love interests and rivals, or for Jorah to wax poetic about Khaliiisi and Jon being jealous or some shit. Some serious talk, if we had time in this compact season for Jon to threaten (or pardon) every man who ever crossed paths with Sansa, why Gendry or the Hound haven’t mentioned Arya at all, if logic states that she is someone this people have in common and should talk about? (like Theon asking about Sansa, or Tyrion) Why Jorah doesn’t talk about D if Jon is her new love interest and it would be a nice and neat contrast between the two of them? Instead they disscus another people they have in common, ex-Lord Commander Jeor Mormont and Ned Stark, oh yes they talk about their dads, Jon says how wonderful was Jorah’s dad and how awful was his death, while Jorah said it must have been heartbreaking for his dad whose entire life was the NW and Jon talks about Ned “the goodest most honorable man ever” dying like a traitor for his honor and pride (like I sense a pattern, can you tell? Gods D&D are too subtle guys) and goes as far as to say he is glad his dad didn’t kill Jorah (you know making him pay for his crime in a just honorable way). Honestly what was the point of this conversation if not that survival is most important than honor? The writers (through Jon) are celebrating that Jorah survived even if he has done sketchy awful things (among them he conspired to have D and her baby killed so he would be allowed to go back to Westeros).

Right we get an intresting end to this convo, Jon offers Jorah Longclaw (why would he give him the sword if he is gonna need it right now in the stupid ass Wight hunt? Why didn’t he gave it to Lady Lyanna Mormont, she has presumably begun training cuz she said to Lord Glover she wasn’t gonna sit by the fire while the man defended the North??? Why would he give it to someone if Jeor gave it to him cuz he didn’t wanted Jorah to have it???) but the point of the conversation it’s not the sword, because Jorah rejects it, it’s about planting the possibility of children in Jon’s future. people have been screaming Targ baby to the heavens and back, and if that is what you chose to belive alright, but I think not, if that was the case wouldn’t it be appropiate to have the Targ theme or the J/D song in the background and transition to DS where D talks about children with Tyrion like she does in a future scene? I would have believed it then. But instead we have the Stark theme and the scene transitioning to Arya and SANSA, call me delusional if you want but for me this is another check in the ‘targcest is building up tarbowl’ column.

Summarizing this we get the very bright neón message of Honor=Death. Which I’ll bring back later.

2.- Y'all remember those good times when the WF storyline was the only thing getting me through all the bullshit I was being fed by D&D? Well they’re over. As I said in point 1 we get a transition of Arya and Sansa looking down at the courtyard while Arya talks about how Ned watched the boys training and tries to diminish Sansa’s connection to her family by stating she was surely too busy sewing to know that (have fun freezing your limbs off darling!!! Sewing and Knitting and all those “delicate female” activities you sniff at are the reason you have clothes miss, really I can’t with this where is the Arya that thought woman to be of equal importance than man?) Sansa is having none of that and says she remembers, we get a cute memory of Arya practicing archery in secret and Ned approving (we get again nods to the patriarchy is wrong! But this is sloppy as fuck if D&D make Arya feel superior to non-warrior inclined girls, like that is also misogynistic) Sansa is smiling fondly (she at this point is more of a feminist icon than any other girl in this show, make no mistake she is not upset or resentful of warrior girls, she approved with a smile when Lyanna said girls on Bear Island were going to be trained too, and she smiles at the memory Arya is sharing with her of defying the rules and practicing archery cuz that made her happy) but then things take a turn for worse when Arya said that Ned is dead cuz Sansa helped the Lannisters. I never asked for this bullshit!!! Not even Ned blamed Sansa for anything, even if Sansa hadn’t alerted her Cersei was gonna kill Robert to protect herself and her children, Ned died for Joffrey’s cruelty (he wasn’t even supposed to die, he was to be sent to the Wall) and yes Sansa had a role to play in the chain of events that led to that, but Sansa had no way of knowing that, she only tried to save her family! The smile gets wiped from my girl’s face she is completely at loss. Arya takes out the letter and starts reading it out, even when Sansa asks her to stop cuz she already knows what does the letter say (wow I can’t belive D&D keep on triggering Sansa through her siblings, FUCKING disgusting) Arya is being unnecessary cruel, blaming Sansa for being powerless to stop their father’s death when she herself was equally powerless, like????? D&D are pushing this Starkbowl bs cuz this is got and nothing can be nice for 2 sec. But really this shit has no basis, you have Wight Hunt Team people who have literally killed each other or tried to working together and joking and then have two sisters who went through hell and back fighting cuz one of them thinks the other survived KL by being a princess in a tower??? Like how is this logical? Even if this is a cleverly crafted Arya plot (I think there is some logic to this) to kill LF is not fair for Sansa, god can’t she have good things on her life? D&D took away the safety of her home by marrying her off to Ramsey and have him rape her in her HOME, and now they make her family treat her one like a stranger and the other like shit???? I’m not asking for Arya to thank Sansa on her knees like she suggested (if anything Sansa was super brave standing her ground and defending her possition and everything she did to retake their home) I don’t want everyone to worship her as they do certain someone all I am asking for is respect and safety for someone who deserves it! Really and Arya suggesting Lyanna Mormont would go for Sansa’s throat why yes she is a child, one that has lost a lot with all this fucking wars but still a child that lacks the knowledge of the true game of thrones and what it takes to survive it, like you Arya (doesn’t she remembers she was cupbearer to Tywin who literally was responsible for the murder of her brother and mother? This is actually what leads me to think this is a ploy cuz Arya is not a hypocrite as far as we’ve seen) still this was painful to watch if you love the Starks.

Anyway leaving my frustration with this cheap drama aside, did anyone notice the parallels between the Arya and Sansa confrontation and the Jon/Tormund and Jon/Jorah conversations? The Wight Hunt Team was talking about great honorable man whose honor and moral code brought their downfall and in the Sansa and Arya, the youngest sister was blaming the eldest for having no honor and surviving (she goes as far as to say she would have rather died than betray her family) while Sansa defends what she did and shows how far she has come from paying the game.

Again this thing is not subtle at all.

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This is too long so Part 2 is coming!

#Game of Thrones #jonsa #season 7 #7x06 recap #part 1 #dachi rambles #anti daenerys #anti jonerys #just to be safe

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schokodonutincoalmine · 7 years

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What I thought about the characters: Game of Thrones season 7. [SPOILERS]

Jon Snow: You have very pure, good eyes. It was delight surprise but also I felt little bit disappointed with that you were the chosen one after all. But you deserve it Jon.

Arya: You are not completely cold blooded. I felt your warmth through the way you look at Hot Pie. That moment was good.

Sansa: Beautiful and strong and rise from filthy hell. But she poisoned by bad people so many times, and now is Baelish. She has a good heart but so easily poisoned. I think so, until I watch the season finale. I’m sorry. The North lives in you.

Bran: You died in that cave.

Okay, my thought is just, I want to Meera and everyone who died for him to know he can helps his siblings and everyone because of you guys.

Meera: Thank you for bringing me home, thank you for helping me all the way. I will save people using this power. I couldn’t do this without you and your brother, and Hodor and Summer. Thank you, Meera.

I said it on behalf of Bran.

Theon: Kicked in a crotch but no damage, because it’s me haha. You didn’t know that? That smile was number one smile of him. Go. I think your army is ridiculously small… but… Anyways, go!!!

Sam: Is that enough? You stole so little.

Of course I like him because he is kind. And one of two precious funny person in the GOT world. Other one is Pod.

Gilly: She said very important thing! Why don’t you notice that Sam… Sam! I thought it but he noticed in the end. Phew. She’s “Steps.�� was really cute.

Baelish: I knew you will be dead someday, for what you’ve done. Thank you for entertain and suffer us.

I like Aidan Gillen from before I start watching GOT, and I like Baelish because of him mostly. But Baelish was interesting and my favorite scumbag. I’m happy he’s dead but I always enjoy watching him.

He had nothing, he loved one lady but she will never be his lover, but he struggle and play his cards well. But you sacrificed too many things. Sacrificed so easily. You poor Littlefinger.

Tormund: I think I am the person he hates most (can’t use the sword or any weapons, can’t knock down people, skinny, short), and he is so scary. But he is hot. What is this feeling? I like the ginger hair by the way.

So, did he fell from there?

Hound: Stupid dog…!!! But he was cute through the season. I always remember you killed the innocent boy. But you becoming another person through the whole season. Thank you for saving the wildling who kissed by fire. I wanted him to kill the Mountain but now I wishing his peace life with delicious chicken. But if he want to kill that monster, I won’t stop.

Edd: I like this grumpy guy. I like your “what the fuck” most. (from season 5) Let’s shipping and having a joke of Tarthbane together.

Brienne: I can understand why Tormund like her. Because she is strong without Dragons (no offense Khaleesi, you are perfect), and her toughness is very beautiful. No man and woman doesn’t have the beauty she has.

Podrick: He has ridiculous funny cute smile, but also he has guts, and he is so innocent existence. (I know he has a powerful magic skill what can use to ladies but he is innocent.) I don’t know, who hates him? I love him. So much. I want his face’s wallpaper in my PC and phone.

Sir Davos: He said the best lines in season 7. “Thought you might still be rowing.” I like this old man.

Gendry: Finally he made it to the shore.

And another thing… It’s not my fault. Red witch tied him up to the bed, scary worriers tap him on the head, so… I want to tease him too. They made me think so!!! I’m not pervert! Sorry I lied.

Beric Dondarrion: I like his magic burning sword but his philosophic view is too strong.

Thoros: Funny drunk man. I’ll choose Thoros if I asked Dondarrion or Melisandre or Thoros? (What a horrible question.)

Ellaria Sand: Her fire, her heat for the love is a source of her power and also became a cause for the things what tear her up. Not so many people have such a vehement and self distractive love.

Obara, Nymeria, and Tyene Sand: I like these girls. Passionate, powerful, sometimes very selfish. But they are tough and eager for what they want. Attractive people. Why they(creators) always hurting Dornish people. They hurting everyone I know but I feel very attacked every time they killing Dornish people. I don’t know why but I feel so.

Yara Grayjoy: Her smile when Ellaria stroking her thigh was very charming. What!? These two? Oh yes, do it, DO it. I thought. Then that m**********r coming in.

Euron: Will you please die?

Olenna Tyrell: She wears big strange, hat(?) and very orthodox lady dress always but she is fucking badass. I wonder she will be a good dragon rider if she was young. I wanted her to be a dragon too.

Jaime: Some people like him, some people hates him. Very debatable person I think but I am the second one. I will never forgive him because he kill ed Jory. Thank you for saving Brienne, and I enjoyed what you did in season finale but, never.

I didn’t feel bitter about Hound anymore and I do feel bitter about Jaime. Is that not fair? No I think not. Jory means to me, but I barely know that boy. And I’m cold blooded.

Cersei: I think she is debatable too especially in late season. But I, Never, Liked her. She is interesting than Jaime, but… Number one reason of why I don’t like her is… she killing and hurting everything everyone by never dirtying her hands. Maybe she did it once or twice? One of those was for Myrcella but so small things. I like passionate character, obsessed with very limited love so selfishly. I like a character like that even if they breaking many things. But only, under the condition that they break it by themselves. By their hand.

Cercei is interesting. She is very complicated and well created. I like Lena Headey. But I don’t like Cercei.

Qyburn: Wow, he’s a badass maester. I think so at first. But fuck you. You are not, by all means. He made a dart to pierce through cats. For my eyes.

Bronn: I always want him to be alive and well but I wish his death at the first time when he aimed at something he shouldn’t. But this is him. I know but, yeah… Will you please stop hurting my stupid mind like this way? Please? And tell me why Jaime’s horse was so brave? Arya’s horse was looks like almost died because of heart attack when he/she surrounded by wolves.

Tyrion: Maybe it’s my fault but I can’t understand why he likes Jaime so much even now. It’s not because of Jory thing but I can’t.

Reunion with Jorah, Bronn, Podrick was such a happy moment. I like this strange company of Tyrion.

Varys: You didn’t talk much, right?

Melisandre: Red priestesses are always terrifying Varys.

Jorah: His sad eyes of love for Khaleesi is always hurting my heart. But I think this old man is happy now because he gave a hug from her, he hold her hand, and Tyrion gave him a coin. Hahaha.

Also, there were a sad moment. When he decline to take the Longclaw and said Jon to something like, the sword will serve the owner and protects your children and the after. Is that mean you decide your mind for Khaleesi? Serve her alone until the end of his life? Sad but cool, Jorah.

Daenerys: She is my queen. Emilia Clark became my favorite actress because of her. I love her and always look at her through the TV screen like Jorah.

First encounter of Daenerys and Jon was very tense. I know both of them are good person but they don’t know that, they don’t know each other, and they have different purposes. I felt very complicated when I watch that scene. When it’s normal “protagonist is don’t dead” story, Daenerys or Jon, one of them will be a villain. But it’s not. Many good people’s dead but these two are survived now and finally met. I felt complicated because of that situation I think. And that was enjoying moment.

But, my queen, you need to save one of your children from endless suffer. (I don’t know how wight’s feels but it’s beyond cruel.) Please save him.

Missandei: I always feel like I am a greedy bad soul when I look her pure smile.

Gray Worm: Go Gray Worm! You are the most awesome male in the GOT world! Go! I, like you! I like you! I know it’s the most ridiculous wish when I watching GOT but don’t die please! Ahhhhhhhh

Uncle Benjen: You are always a hero.

I hoping his come back since he were presumed dead early season. I always wait for him, and a wish comes true, then this. He is too perfect good guy and doesn’t fit in this GOT world. I’m angry. I love uncle Benjen.

So Daenerys is Jon’s aunt, right? If Benjen is my uncle, I want to fu…

I’m angry.

So it’s done. Maybe I forgot someone. Ah… I can’t wait.

#game of thrones #got7 #characters #uncle benjen

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