#I feel like I see people act like

[mari-monsta]

It honestly really baffles me when people say adrien is a boring or simple character, I don’t understand where that comes from at all. Because I think the main reason he’s so compelling are his complexities, but in the same vein those complexities I think make him someone very easy to relate to. Like it’s fine if he’s not likable or relatable to everyone but saying he’s not complex is really just ???? To me. Just looking at how DIFFERENTLY he acts around different people and situations is so fascinating to me. Of course everyone takes different personas and highlights different aspects of their personality around different people but adrien is the king of doing it around the same people to the extent of which having his two personalities be the same is laughable to those who know him personally in his everyday life.

But it’s not out of no where, seeing his home life and the kind of person he’s made out to be by his situation it’s not hard at all to understand that he’s a person who is immensely self conscious. He’s constantly gauging others perception of him and whether or not he is “safe”. What’s more fascinating is the entirely different way this comes out in chat noir. Because adriens personality as chat noir is also deliberate to a certain extent but it’s deliberate in the way that that’s how he wants others to see him. He wants to see self assured and larger than life because in his everyday life he feels small and self conscious. The fact that this dichotomy is so easy to follow in his character but creates such a black and white image in his two personalities is so interesting!

Another thing I find completely fascinating about him are his high empathy and how that actually fucks him up more often than not. He’s acutely aware of how other people might be feeling and can easily sympathize. At the same time though he has a hard time understanding certain social cues and situations and seems very out of his element. I don’t think these things conflict at all. Adrien is someone who easily puts himself in other peoples shoes and can imagine and have sympathy for their situation, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to pick up on the social complexities of every interaction every time. Emotions aren’t the same as communication and when it comes to the later adrien works best with simple and straight forward interactions.

In the same vein because of his aforementioned situations he’s also a character who has a lot of repressed anger and frustration that has been building up for a very long time. In his everyday life, he feels powerless, small, and insignificant. He doesn’t have faith that anyone would listen to his thoughts and feelings and actually take them into account, because by all of his experiences no one really has. This creates a defense mechanism where he shuts himself out before he even gets to the point of sharing how he really feels. We see this really easily in his relationship with Nino. He loves Nino DEARLY, but there is something that we have seen in him constantly putting up walls emotionally. He won’t tell him when he doesn’t find something funny, he won’t tell him if he’s unhappy to do something even when it greatly affects his life because he is at his core afraid Nino will not validate those emotions.

As a result, all the frustration he’s built up from feeling powerless in his everyday life we see just. Randomly bursting out of him in inopportune moments as chat noir. It’s not that adrien is such a violent or angry person normally. But he’s so used to repressing and modulating his emotions regularly that when he feels somewhat safe to express any frustration ALL of the anger he feels constantly bubbling under the surface all of the time just suddenly rushes out, like a dam holding back hundreds of gallons of water. This happens repeatedly, and then as soon as he’s realized he’s let himself get out of control he immediately feels immense guilt and he stops the dam up even tighter. This is obviously not a healthy feedback loop but it’s fucking FASCINATING!!!!

A common thing that I feel like I see fans often misinterpret about his character in my own opinion is just how PRIVATE of a person adrien is. Adrien loves sharing his love and appreciation for those around him because he knows how it feels not to know, not to be sure of that affection. But in the same token, Adrien rarely if ever actually shares his real feelings with those he’s close to. He doesn’t like people prying into his life or his feelings and he is very private about most things. We don’t see him talking about what he likes, we don’t see him sharing with his friends his anger or frustration. And in the end Adrien is the one character who has kept his secrets most closely held to his vest. This is all despite being so grandiose and loud mouthed as chat noir. Even as chat noir, adrien rarely is entirely open about things going on in his life.

To me Adrien as a character isn’t interesting or compelling because he is shy or cute or sweet, but because there are a number of different facets to his personality that I can easily see reasons for and understand where his feelings come from. He IS sweet, but not without misplaced anger, not without repression, not without mistakes and messy emotions. Not without pain that we can both easily see the roots of but also have a wide spread variety of consequences from. We see how his formative experiences affect every aspect of his life even in ways he audience wouldn’t necessarily expect, but make complete sense. That’s so fun and interesting to me!!!! Let characters be messy but try their best anyways!!! Let characters hurt each other and try to put the pieces back together one shard at a time. People have complicated emotions that come out in ways we can’t always foresee or help, people make mistakes because of that. But despite everything adrien is a character who cares deeply for those around him and tries to do right by them despite all the rest of it, and despite sometimes not really knowing how.

It’s things like that that keep miraculous being an extremely engaging and compelling story to me. Most of the general things about adriens character are also things that I find interesting about marinettes as well! Of course the intricacies of her character are completely different, but the general hows and whys and complex motivations for her actions while maintaining the best of intentions are what make them both so interesting to me. So this is just a little love letter to adriens character because I wanted to talk about that and why I find him so engaging!

#I feel like I see people act like #oh adrien is just a white male character what is so interesting about him #when it’s. like. just a characters baseline identity does not . dictate if they are interesting #I’d also argue that adrien as a white male character that falls into so many feminine females character tropes is also FACINATING #BECAUSE he is a white male character #being a white male character doesn’t make a character interesting by default either tho obviously #any character should always have the depth and work behind their story to make them compelling no matter what #adrien is particularly interesting to me because of his dichotomy #but the same could be said about marinette #she deserves praise for being an engaging and compelling character just as much #ANYWAY. IDK WHY IVE BEEN RANTING SO MUCH LATELY. #THIS JS MY SECOND MIRACULOUS INSPIRED RANT IN THE LAST 24 HOURS

[saturdaysky]

a little morning pick-me-up

-

A morning on the way to Baldur's Gate. The party booked themselves into an inn and enjoyed real beds, hot baths, and privacy for the first time since the Nautiloid.

Gale and Mayhew shared a room, of course. They were filled with the relief of surviving the shadows and the glow of finally getting together, so their private room was probably a blessing for the whole party, honestly.

-

This was some ascended anatomy practice! Referenced some great stock from @null-entity.

#some people speed run the galemance but i played it as the world's longest slow burn #act 1 was fuuull of uneven feelings and perceived unrequited feelings and slow-building respect #mayhew was immediately down bad & suffering after the weave scene. Plus Gale's lukewarm reaction to flirting felt like people-pleasing #gale slowly emerged from his depression hole much later and only then caught real feelings - but the orb put paid to acting on them #so in my game they simply had a very loaded laden-with-unspoken-feelings friendship until near the end of act 2 #they got like one (1) week of happiness before the horrors of act 3 hit. starting with Mayhew getting unwillingly astral tadpole'd #it's tragic and i love it #also: chubby gale. tumblr do you see my vision #mayhew sees my vision #please also appreciate mayhew's bed head and the too-big-for-gnomes dishware. i chuckled about those #my art #mayhew #gale dekarios #gnome tav #gale x tav #bg3 #baldur's gate 3

[tomurakii]

I like bloodweave. Okay. But I DON'T like the version of them in fanfic where Astarion is a dick and Gale is like. Whining and pleading for him to be emotionally vulnerable (or just. Nice to him) prior to the relationship being established. Because that is just not accurate. Gale needs the player to express interest in him during his weave-teaching scene before he even considers hitting on them properly. Gale is entirely resigned to his fate and needs someone else to pull him away from it. Gale only starts being sweet and romantic and devoted after you accept his love confession and give him hope for the future. Gale says fuck all and then slinks away to cry privately if you break up with him.

Like he isn't chasing after people lmao. He isn't dropping to his knees and crying about anything much less this dickhead he met a week ago. He is overwhelmingly passive about literally everything personal to him up to and including his own death (provided there are no casualties/there is a good reason) until after the player expresses that they care about him. Astarion is not doing that in any of these fics.

Like Gale is friendly and a dork and doesn't wanna get murdered but he fully has a suicide plan. He thought the artefacts would help him survive but he didn't believe he'd ever truly live again. If Gale confessed and Astarion said/did like one (1) mean thing afterward Gale's romance is closed off forever. He's wandering into the forest to cry. He's killing himself immediately. His fragile ego and self worth can't take it. You have to understand that when we joke about him being pathetic it's not bc he's like. Sopping wet and chasing people down and begging for a scrap of attention. It's because he craves affection but would literally rather die than ask or even hope for it until someone else forces that hope back into his serotonin-deficient tadpole brain.

#i feel like u can tell when a bloodweave fic is written by an astarion stan vs a gale stan lol #because the astarion stans are just using gale as a vessel for like. their sopping wet meow meow #who screams and cries until astarion becomes emotionally vulnerable with them #which gale would not do. realistic bloodweave is astarion tries to fuck him in act 1 and he refuses because of the orb #and then astarion is like “boo what the fuck. change of plans” and gale is like “okay” and they never speak of it again lol #anyway #please god the gale characterisation in this place. half of you make him the soppiest most pathetic loser and the other half make him evil #he's not ACTUALLY a loser. when i joke about it the reason its funny is because its not true #hes just a regular guy with depression lol. hes not out here debasing himself begging for some old twink to care abt him #bg3 #gale dekarios #bloodweave #gale of waterdeep #does this make sense. i havent slept #i just mean that if you want gale to be sappy he needs to have like. prior assurance that his feelings are reciprocated #because if he doesnt have that and astarion is a dick to him he WILL just give up on the relationship #like hes not hunting people down after they deliberately upset him. i see so many fics where they create tension by lime #*like #having astarion openly fuck someone else after establishing a sort-of relationship with gale. for the drama #like hey. gale fully dumps you if you do that in game!! you have no way to convince him not to. he will dump astarion for that permanently

[lgbtlunaverse]

Most annoying NMJ or JC take is when someone that dislikes them is like "oh you're a fan of him? *scoff* Well obviously you've only seen cql, where he was super watered down. In the novel he's a dislikable asshole and that's the objectively superior canon I'm working from instead of your woobified fanfic." Meanwhile your main canon is novel canon and you genuinely find novel Jiang Cheng and Nie Mingjue complex sympathetic characters.

#complaining and whining about fandom #mdzs #cql #the untamed #nie mingjue #jiang cheng #WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING TO THEM #it's quite funny because in nmj's case i actually see shit from cql being carried over to novel canon to hate on him #for example my's treatment under the nie was explicitly much worse in cql because they transplanted the langya captain to qinghe #while the worst we see post-promotion in the novel is cultivators (WHO AREN'T EVEN NIE!) wiping ther teacups #(they're visiting from other clans like xichen. That's also why none of them had seen meng yao before.) #you can absolutely choose to interpret that worse things were happening to him at the hands of the nie off-page #it's definitely possible! but cql has people acting like it's objective canon #also the thing about empathy being inaccurate and biased in nmj's favor #that's another cql thing. in novel canon wwx can and does see things nmj does not notice (like the teacups!) #so even if he has some insight into nmj's thoughts and feelings it quite literally can't be showing things exclusively from his perspective #it was a pretty cool ceative decision from cql! gave us some very interesting character moments! #but sometimes i see people discuss the novel going 'and this was warped by nmj's bias i bet he was even worse in reality' girl wrong medium #in jiang cheng's case a lot of hate seems to be coming from the corner of cql!mains too #so clearly it can't be *that* big a difference in likability

[puppetmaster13u]

Prompt 234

More of the Tiamat Au? More of the Tiamat Au! 

Sharing a body was strange. Ten limbs split between the nine of them- thirteen if one counted the tails and seventeen if one counted the fact that their cloak… skirt… whatever could mimic the wings of their other form. 

One which they would change back to after a few moments- there was much less stumbling when it was all fours. Not to mention that if not for the tails they’d have easily toppled over with how many arms they had making them slightly top heavy. Okay more than slightly, it was taking a bit to adjust. 

Honestly the fields of wheat and other crops did nothing to hide them with how tall even this body was, but it was still better than nothing, and they were using the fact it was the middle of nowhere to their shared advantage. 

At least the humanoid- not human, even now their shared power thrummed through the air, leaking from them- form was smaller than their true draconic one. Well, perhaps they shouldn’t call it their true form, when they were once all human, halfa and liminal alike, but they’d long since stopped being such. So perhaps it was in fact true to call the form they had become as their normal state now. 

Actually, could they even separate now? Or had their power melded together so much that it was impossible now, and an attempt would end them? It would at the very least crack their core- 

“What the fuck.” 

Their head lurched, a little too far if the jolt of pain was anything before it melted away. They were all too used to moving their own necks separately. But all of them agreed that discovery could not happen-

Oh.

It was a child. A preteen with red-orange hair, blue-green eyes, expensive clothing, and most damming of all, large swaths of bruising across his arms. Bruising that did not come from usual play, and looked far too much like hand prints for any of their comfort. 

Someone had very much not been taking care of this child. And that really made them quite angry. 

#DCxDP #DPxDC #Prompts #The Class Pulls a Tiamat #The ennead finding lil baby Lex: Oh no the poor baby… our baby now #Lex as an adult seeing reporter also from smallville: Oh thank fuck- pretend I didn’t say that #Lex raised by the chaos 9 would be twice as horrifying #Lex got tossed over to this small town whenever his bio-father got tired of him #But he has a new mom-dad now & was raised as a feral lil shit #Acts like an ass still towards other rich people #But he was raised by a feral hydra and it SHOWS the first time someone tries to kidnap him #Liminal Lex Luthor #What happened to Lionel? They DEFINITELY didn’t eat him #Ennead: Son you better not become a hero plz you will lose so much sleep & your schoolwork will suffer- #Luthor feels better about Superman because he knows there’s things that CAN defeat him if he turns evil #That’s even if he still ends up in Metropolis lol #Or if he stays human and doesn’t learn dragon shapeshifting from his new parents lol #PFFT Lex Luthor collecting kryptonite not to use against Superman but for hoarding purposes lmao

[turtleblogatlast]

Sometimes I think about how the turtles are just kids, y’know? Just kids and yet it’s up to them to save people, save New York, save the world.

It’s honestly really sad. They were created to be soldiers and while they chose to protect rather than destroy, they remain soldiers all the same.

#rottmnt #rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles #it’s morbidly funny how the movie tries to push the whole idea of responsibility and heroism on Leo and the audience but uh #that’s a sixteen year old #and Raph is only seventeen #these kids became vigilantes for FUN and now it’s a responsibility all of a sudden like bro #it’s very heartbreaking to witness a childhood cut short #the boys are GOOD at heroism and being ninjas and saving people #but it leaves a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth when a kid acting like a kid instead of a Hero is presented as a bad thing #it’s why I was so happy to see Raph get to join in on the pizza stack competition at the end of the movie #but at the end we already see Leo much more mature in comparison and #I can’t help but feel sad about it

[calware]

"i happened to not find this character very interesting or likeable" doesn't automatically mean they're an objectively bland and boring character it just means you have a personal opinion

#jane is a very nuanced character who suffers from both violent childhood trauma and grooming #she's a clumsy teenager still trying to navigate her friendships and social life with her other clumsy teenager friends #and she's not great at it all the time and neither are they but she still cares about them! that's an interesting character concept! #again you don't have to find her interesting if that's not your preference. but that doesn't mean everyone feels the same way #also she is more similar to the fandom's most specialest boy (dave) than a lot of people realize but she's a Girl so she's not allowed to #be treated or viewed in the same ways as him. but i won't get into it #now. if you want to argue that her character arc got cut short and didn't really amount to much? that's a valid argument to make + i can #see how that might make people like her less. but it's less of her being a bland character and more ''uh oh the story had to end'' flavor #of weird act 6 writing that a lot of characters got shafted with #tldr you're allowed to not like jane but don't be surprised when other people do <3

[worstloki]

AU where Loki doesn’t interfere with Thor’s banishment at all and it takes Thor years to prove himself worthy and when he returns to Asgard everything is just. The same. Nothing seems to have changed at all and everyone greets him like his absence was a minor obstacle that didn’t fundamentally change Thor and the worst part is Loki stepped down from the place as regent without any delay and Thor can’t help but feel there’s something underlaying the way his brother looks at him now and won’t let him touch him and Thor doesn’t know what he could have missed because he doesn’t think he would have found anything wrong with the things around him and how everyone behaves if he hadn’t spent time on Earth reflecting.

#the warriors 4 not being interested in anything Thor ‘learnt’ at all #and making it clear that Thor was punished unfairly and the AllFather’s decision had been harsh #Loki saying he’s happy for Thor and Thor sees the way the smiles are forced and he sees the way Loki avoids any touch #Thor hating the way Frigga talks about Loki’s short regency and Thor’s absence like it wasn’t two whole decades or something #like she’s so grateful to have her other son back without ever addressing why he was gone #Thor just. growing during his time on earth and being much more aware of the behaviour around him #he learns to be critical and assess why people around him may act a certain way #once he realises that it’s possible for him or anyone else to be fallible and make mistakes it’s over for Asgard for him I think #Thor returns and Loki gives him the throne and everyone expects him to obviously have the throne #and Odin is sleeping and Thor isn’t comfortable with the way everyone accepts him as king regent after the banishment #Loki who either never lashed out against Jotunheim or did and it was brushed away and no one thinks about it as anything #but Loki is still deeply affected and acts the way he always would have but Thor can feel it’s not the same #he knows something is wrong and Loki won’t say anything about it and Thor doesn’t know how to bring it up #Thor sees Loki metaphorically receding into the shadows to become a nonpresence so loud Thor hears it even after returning from decades away #Thor goes to Earth and gets his priorities in order gets a new worldview learns not to take what he has for granted #and finds out he actually despised Asgard #he’s been back a week and he can’t stand it

[dootznbootz]

Odysseus was afraid the entire year on Aeaea in the Odyssey.

Content warnings: Rape, Sexual Coercion, Sexual assault, Sex Work, power dynamics, this will also be long as fuck as I talk too much. This is NOT a "Circe the Goddess Hate Post". I call her out but that's it. I tried to keep this neutral but still making a point (Let me know if I gotta put more)

Lots of lovely folks on here have written great essays on what Calypso did to Odysseus as it's soooo blatantly obvious there. It literally states how he cried every day and how he flinched from Calypso, very straightforward on how he was explicitly raped.

But I've noticed that a lot of people are always iffy about Circe's situation (understandably so, it's not so in your face.) She's usually always mentioned in the "Odysseus never cheated! He was raped!" posts but then the evidence is only ever given against Calypso, and then mentioning how you can't say no or disobey the orders of an immortal and how it was in exchange for freeing his men.

WHICH IS ALL CORRECT!!! But!!!

There ARE immortal/mortal couples who genuinely love each other. Dionysus and Ariadne, and Eros and Psyche are examples. Apollo and Hyacinthus. Psyche indeed becomes immortal eventually and in some versions, both Hyacinthus and Ariadne do too. But even while mortal themselves, their immortal lovers still remained respectful and loving towards them and definitely doted on them. There are definitely power dynamics at play here but there's some nuance.

Odysseus and Circe's relationship, however, is very different. We all know he slept with her at the very least once. And that was in exchange for his men being returned to humans. That was the only time it was explicitly stated. With Calypso, it tells you every night he was enchanted and slept beside her. It was the narrator speaking but Odysseus is the narrator now and it's his story. If you think he lied, this probably won't change your mind anyway.

But even if it was a one-time thing, (which isn't the only interpretation and I will have points that talk about others) then why did he stay a year? What was he doing?

I'm doing a deep dive into the year he spent on Aeaea based on evidence in Book 10 and then the beginning of Book 12. Step by step, and honestly I'm writing this for Tumblr, not as a thesis so I will be a bit more casual but still using sources. To me, it's very obvious that he was uncomfortable throughout the text simply based on the language that is used. But it's very subtle and not an outright statement of "He's been crying every day."

BTW, just so we're clear, this is not a "Circe is the root of all evil, etc." type of post.

This isn't meant to villainize her. She's an immortal being and in mythology that changes things. Everybody is morally gray. I genuinely think if we were to ask her feelings on it, she'd probably be like "Oh, yeah! Turned his men into pigs! Strange little man he was." I don't think she gave a flying fuck.

I just simply get pissed tf off when people think Odysseus was fine. It honestly disturbs me how often I'll go on other websites YouTube and see everyone call him a whore and a womanizer. It's sexism at its finest because 1.) "MaN AlwAyS wAnTs sEx" and 2.) women can't rape/coerce. THIS IS SIMPLY TO LOOK INTO HIS FEELINGS ABOUT IT.

This is also only for Homer's Odyssey, using different translations. If you want to discuss this, (I'd be happy to! Just be nice!) DON'T BRING UP ANY OTHER WORKS.

With all that out of the way, come yell with me 🤗

I've read multiple translations, as I know there's going to be bias depending on who's translating. And having done so, each one has basically the same situations described the same so that's nice for consistency. Also, there are some parts in the story that are vague and that we'll never have answers to.

Odysseus first simply sees the smoke from her chimney and then sends his men in, after drawing lots Eurylochus leads half of the men to check out the house. I mentioned here vaguely how the 2 immortals he sleeps with are both introduced while singing and weaving, which could be seen as an enchantment (which to me is most likely. They both possess magic and are goddesses). So I'm just gonna move past that. Just take a peek and come back or just know that enchantment was likely.

Next, I'll see people often joke on Tumblr about how

"Odysseus says that Polites is his best friend yet only mentions him once!"

I think Odysseus mentions his best friend, the one to jubilantly go in first, to show WHY he would go through with this. How much these comrades mean to him. That's his best friend, and there are approximately 20 others who are now pigs as well. Could you knowingly leave one of your best friends to live a life like that knowing you could've done something?

[...]Circe—and deep inside they heard her singing, lifting her spellbinding voice as she glided back and forth at her great immortal loom, her enchanting web a shimmering glory only goddesses can weave. Polites, captain of armies, took command, the closest, most devoted man I had: ‘Friends, there’s someone inside, plying a great loom, and how she sings—enthralling! The whole house is echoing to her song. Goddess or woman—let’s call out to her now!’ So he urged and the men called out and hailed her. She opened her gleaming doors at once and stepped forth, inviting them all in, and in they went, all innocence.

(Fagles, Book 10)

In the Odyssey, it's never mentioned why she turns people into animals. I think they were turned into pigs because, throughout the Iliad and Odyssey, Odysseus is often associated with boars. His men are associated with him, therefore: 🐖 Piggy. From what we know, the lads were just eating her food. With how much Xenia and hospitality are a large part of the story, they probably thought they were safe. They were GUESTS. This is especially welcome after the Cyclops and the Laestrygonians. And it literally says "All innocence". They were simply naive.

Then Eurylochus runs back, so terrified that he couldn't speak at first. He then begs Odysseus to just leave the men behind. Odysseus has shown that he does TRY to save his men when it is truly not reckless to do so.

But I shot back, ‘Eurylochus, stay right here, eating, drinking, safe by the black ship. I must be off. Necessity drives me on.’

(Fagles, Book 10)

Then the famous warning from Hermes. I've seen folks bring this up when talking about this. YES, he is literally commanded by Hermes to not refuse her if he wants his men back in basically every translation. It sounds like Circe was warned as well. When? We don't know, but it sounds like Hermes didn't pick "sides" here.

Strange that he was still like, "Sleep with each other" to both, because he could've been like, "Circe, there's this guy named Odysseus. When he comes to this island, change his men back." But who knows, maybe it was Circe's idea from the beginning and Hermes went along with it. Just food for thought.

Now here’s your plan of action, step by step. The moment Circe strikes with her long thin wand, you draw your sharp sword sheathed at your hip and rush her fast as if to run her through! She’ll cower in fear and coax you to her bed— but don’t refuse the goddess’ bed, not then, not if she’s to release your friends and treat you well yourself. But have her swear the binding oath of the blessed gods she’ll never plot some new intrigue to harm you, once you lie there naked— never unman you, strip away your courage!’

(Fagles, Book 10)

But that doesn't explain why he was there for a year afterward! Nor if he himself was okay with it, which is what I'm trying to delve into as he wasn't.

Also the knife thing? She's still immortal. It was meant to startle her. Her dad is Helios. Odysseus would've been toast, literally.

Also note this exchange wasn't a "Yippee! Hermes says I'm going to get laid!".

...just approaching the halls of Circe, my heart a heaving storm at every step, paused at her doors, the nymph with lovely braids— I stood and shouted to her there. She heard my voice, she opened the gleaming doors at once and stepped forth, inviting me in, and in I went, all anguish now …

(Fagles, Book 10)

Another translation by Ian Johnston, (they all say the same thing essentially but trying to make a point.)

I continued on to Circe’s home. As I moved on, my heart was turning over many gloomy thoughts. After I had walked up to the gateway                                                of fair-haired Circe’s house, I just stood there and gave a shout. The goddess heard my voice.                      She came out at once, opened her bright doors, and invited me inside. I entered, heart full of misgivings.

HE👏WAS👏SCARED! The tone is solemn and suspenseful. He was just told that without Hermes' help with the root, he wouldn't be able to survive and bring back his men. Circe was dangerous.

He made her swear not to harm him.

Straightaway she began to swear the oath that I required—never, she’d never do me harm—and when she’d finished, then, at last, I mounted Circe’s gorgeous bed …

(Fagles, Book 10)

Please note that she NEVER promised that to his men. His comrades did NOT have moli in their systems. He had no way of truly ensuring their safety in any way from Circe.

He then refuses to eat or speak, literally "lost in grim forebodings". If he "just got laid", then why isn't he happy? Not many men can say that a goddess CHOSE to have sex with them. He did it to get his men turned back. It was an exchange. I don't think Circe is "Evil" so maybe it slipped her mind. Or yes, she could've thought, "Hey, I got what I wanted. He's handsome enough. Homer never shuts up about how hot this guy is He hasn't brought up the pigs yet. I'll just let this play out. Maybe HE forgot. I don't have to do anything." We don't know. But Odysseus probably felt like he got deceived.

"Hey, I did my part of the deal. I slept with you. Now do yours."

She pressed me to eat. I had no taste for food. I just sat there, mind wandering, far away … lost in grim forebodings. As soon as Circe saw me, huddled, not touching my food, immersed in sorrow, she sidled near with a coaxing, winged word: ‘Odysseus, why just sit there, struck dumb, eating your heart out, not touching food or drink? Suspect me of still more treachery? Nothing to fear. Haven’t I just sworn my solemn, binding oath?’

So she asked, but I protested, ‘Circe— how could any man in his right mind endure the taste of food and drink before he’d freed his comrades-in-arms and looked them in the eyes? If you, you really want me to eat and drink, set them free, all my beloved comrades— let me feast my eyes.’ So I demanded.

(Fagles, Book 10)

He doesn't trust her despite what she had told him that he should when they sleep together. He has figured out that while she will not hurt him, his men were not a part of that oath, the men he was trying to protect in the first place.

She is then moved by how they rejoice when they see one another again. While turning people into animals for funsies isn't cool and coercion is fucked up, I think she comes to see this group as not quite friends but I think she did find them entertaining in a way.

This is very strange but I've seen some folks say that since Odysseus was pissed at Eurylochus for still not believing him about Circe is proof that "Oh he was trying to defend her!". Which??? Uh, Eurylochus was literally questioning his leadership as a whole. Calling him reckless and shit. He is captain and he's the King, he can't let that shit slide. The text literally says "Mutinous". Also if I had to sleep with someone I did not want to especially if it was to save my friends and I got called names afterward I'd get fucking pissed too.

Only Eurylochus tried to hold my shipmates back, his mutinous outburst aimed at one and all: ‘Poor fools, where are we running now? Why are we tempting fate?— why stumble blindly down to Circe’s halls? She’ll turn us all into pigs or wolves or lions made to guard that palace of hers—by force, I tell you— just as the Cyclops trapped our comrades in his lair with hotheaded Odysseus right beside them all— thanks to this man’s rashness they died too!

They stay a year. Again it's never stated that Odysseus slept with her that whole time. You could interpret that. (Honestly, I feel Circe would get bored with him? She's a goddess, she's got more important matters than mortal men. And she definitely doesn't love him.)

His men DO have to bring it up that "Odysseus has forgotten his native land." Maybe they thought they could sneak out without her knowing??? I am fucking REACHING but hold on as Telemachus did because he knew Nestor would well, be Nestor and try to coax him with "Have a meal with us! Let me tell you about how badass I used to be in my youth." But to sneak away from a goddess? Without her permission? That won't end too well. Aeolus in the beginning kicked out Odysseus when he tried to ask for another bag of wind. If she didn't want him around, she could literally boot him out. While she didn't force him to stay like Calypso did, she didn't "release" him either.

We don't know if they've been asking for a long time. Odysseus does say to Circe that they have been begging him nonstop, but he could also be saying that to try and convince her. He's good at persuasion. I think while he knew he could rely on her for food, shelter, and good advice, he still didn't feel...SAFE with her. I think he was possibly avoiding her personally.

I think HOW he asks her to leave is important to know as well.

...but I went up to that luxurious bed of Circe’s, hugged her by the knees and the goddess heard my winging supplication: ‘Circe, now make good a promise you gave me once— it’s time to help me home. My heart longs to be home, my comrades’ hearts as well. They wear me down, pleading with me whenever you’re away.’

(Fagles, Book 10)

Throughout all of Homer's works, the characters grasp another's knees when they are desperate and are literally at the other person's mercy. Priam did when begging Achilles for Hector's body back. The man who literally killed his son and was defiling his body by dragging it around. Leodes grabs Odysseus' knees to beg for his life before Ody kills him. If he saw her as a friend, and not a captor, WHY DID HE FEEL THE NEED TO BEG IN ORDER TO LEAVE?! No one, who is in a healthy relationship, has to BEG for permission to leave. Or to "Break up", if you interpret them as still sleeping together.

And even Circe acknowledges that he is there against his will!

‘Royal son of Laertes, Odysseus, old campaigner, stay on no more in my house against your will.

(Fagles, Book 10)

[...]Odysseus, man of many resources, scion of Zeus, son of Laertes, don’t stay here a moment longer against your will

(A.S. Kline, Book 10)

This is probably another reach that you can ignore but the whole "they wear me down", could be trying to appease her. "Look, you're REALLY cool, it's actually my crew that wants to leave hahahah please don't kill them"

I mentioned before how Telemachus snuck away from Nestor but that was simply out of necessity because he needed to go home now. Not rest for the night. NOW. Nestor is just everyone's grandpa. Menelaus kind of talked more but Telemachus is very straight up in "Please I have to go now" and Menelaus immediately got things ready for him. He never has to beg and clasp his knees. Telemachus was never afraid. Menelaus is a fun uncle and Helen is your cool auntie.

Back to Circe! She tells him instructions for the underworld, they were in her bedroom. But that might've been the only way to speak with her. As even Penelope is usually away from the suitors when they are in her halls, Circe may have done the same. The text never states she played hostess physically. If she was hosting in the halls during the day, why did Odysseus wait until night to talk to her? He could've just asked her while she was on her throne in front of everyone. (He did so with the Phaeacians)

Or maybe he went alone because she only swore an oath to not harm him and so he didn't want his men near if she decided she didn't want to let them go. I could be missing something here so feel free to say something. Idk if this was a pride thing on how "I don't want others to see me beg".

She has info he needs in order to go home as well. She tells him to go to the Underworld.

She gave him new fine clothes and put on pretty clothes herself but that doesn't mean they had sex. Nausicaa gave him nice clothes as well but he never slept with her.

Then he leaves. Immediately. Not even doing a headcount as he didn't realize one of his men had died. (That was negligence on his part but he wanted out) He booked it, to the UNDERWORLD BY THE WAY. Circe even had to sneak the animals he needed for the sacrifice. Odysseus even basically said "She's a goddess. She can do things mortals can't" at the end of the book. And it almost feels...Numb? Solemn? Neutral? Gives a "It is what it is" vibe.

But Circe got to the dark hull before us, tethered a ram and black ewe close by— slipping past unseen. Who can glimpse a god who wants to be invisible gliding here and there?

(Fagles, Book 10)

She’d slipped past us with ease, for who can see a god move back and forth, if she has no desire to be observed?

(Johnston, Book 10)

She's a goddess. She has magic. She can do whatever the fuck she wants.

NOW ON TO BOOK 12!!! That was long! GET A SNACK AND WATER! LUCKILY THIS'LL BE SHORTER!

In Book 11, Odysseus swears, upon all his loved ones in Ithaca, to Elpenor that he'd give him a proper burial as he's been "unwept, unburied". So in Book 12, he sails back to Aeaea to fulfill his promise.

But you know what's funny to me?

He didn't tell Circe he was there.

He didn't even go to greet Circe himself. He sent his men to go get Elpenor's body.

The biggest clue that he didn't love/trust her is that if she was his "Affair partner" then why not go see her for "one last night together"?

SHE came out herself and pulled him aside to know what happened and then gave more advice.

I dispatched some men to Circe’s halls to bring the dead Elpenor’s body. [...]

Nor did our coming back from Death escape Circe— she hurried toward us, decked in rich regalia, handmaids following close with trays of bread and meats galore and glinting ruddy wine. [...]

But Circe, taking me by the hand, drew me away from all my shipmates there and sat me down and lying beside me probed me for details

(Fagles, Book 12)

In every translation, it talks about how he sits, and she lounges/lies down. That's not sex 🙃 In some translations, it even says he tried to be with his shipmates but she pulled him away!

So we lay down and slept beside our ship’s stern cables. But Circe took me by the hand and led me away, some distance from the crew. She made me sit, while she stretched out beside me on the ground. 

(Johnston, Book 12)

Then, she gives advice about the sirens, Charybdis, Scylla, and her father's Cattle. He tries to ask if he could save all his men. She scolds him for even thinking he could try. He again books it out of there.

I think we all know it wasn't "love". But I think a lot of people think Odysseus was willing and happy with whatever this was. "Friends with Benefits", if you will. I guess you could see it that way but I will say that makes me feel itchy with the whole power dynamic and fear. I don't think folks who have that arrangement have to beg on their knees to ask if they can leave though.

I mean the entirety of Book 10 gives me the vibes of "Laughing uncomfortably because you don't want to upset the other person". To just grin and bear it.

A lot of this was just putting the text here and picking it apart step by step. What you do with this is up to you. It's rambling while banging pots and pans together.

Maybe you see him as drugged the entire year and still sleeping together, as the moli "wore off". Even then, just because her magic can't affect him, there are plenty of natural concoctions that can be created that can affect mortals.

Maybe you see the entire year as sex work in exchange for shelter and food.

Maybe he was just alongside his men the whole time under her roof and was avoiding her after the exchange. After he got asked by his men to finally leave, he would start to walk up to that room only to freeze and turn around, thinking "One more day won't hurt. Should wait until I know she's in a sympathetic mood".

I beg of you, however, PLEASE understand that there was fear and coercion throughout his entirety on Aeaea. He wasn't staying to get laid. While there is so much going on and too many things that are left vague to really know exactly what happened, it is consistent that he was scared/numb. Lots of people go through with things they don't really want to do just to appease others. There are plenty of situations of sexual trauma where one person goes through something and the other has no idea the other person isn't okay. ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMEONE CAN HARM THE PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT AT ANY MOMENT!

Sexual trauma is a very complicated thing and while he was scared, he definitely wasn't as traumatized by her as he was by Calypso. Calypso was a torturous hell while Circe was a year of walking on eggshells. Not comparable but I still think it should be acknowledged. It's wild because I read the Odyssey and kept thinking "Y'all are calling the sex slave a cheater? The guy who slept with a goddess to get his men back? The ultimate simp apparently doesn't love his wife??"

Things I'm adding that shouldn't affect the argument as it is not in the Odyssey but I want to mention as it's a "fun fact": Odysseus' dad was an Argonaut. Laertes probably met Circe as well, (or knew of her) with the whole purifying thing and maybe Odysseus heard his dad tell stories of her. Later myths also have Circe with the habit of turning her crushes (or their lovers) into something with Scylla and Picus.

In conclusion, Yeah, he was afraid of her. At least to an extent. And don't pull the whole "Ancient men didn't get raped". Male victims exist and deserve compassion for what was done to them and women are capable of sexual abuse. If you think otherwise, you are not a true feminist and Fuck you. I said in the beginning this'll be casual and I don't wanna write a fancy ending. You can still think Circe is neat but you have to know that this was fucked up.

If you think a lot of this is bullshit or wanna give more context or wish to yell with me but still know he wasn't alright on Aeaea, cool. If you want to point out mistakes or something I should keep in mind with interpretations then feel free to say so but give text evidence. If you try and bring up the Telegony and/or Madeline Miller's Circe, fuck clean off. This is Homer. If you call Odysseus a whore and not the malewife he canonically is I'll start biting. 😤

#feel free to add thoughts! just be nice #Was a bit afraid to post this but now I don't care lol #I'm a tired bitch #Youtube and idiots on tumblr got me acting up. #This may be too thorough but idc. #idk why the colors get weird #I don't know how other people can see all these things lined up together and not see how he was not okay. #like I said you can still like circe the goddess but know this was wrong! #might make private sometime but fuck it #anti-madeline miller #Circe the goddess is “fine”. Circe the book is not #It sounds like it does her dirty anyways. Odyssey Circe would take book Circe out back and beat the absolute shit outta her. #As another Madeline I'm ashamed. #if you bring up the tele-GONE-y then BEGONE yourself #odysseus #the odyssey #odyssey #circe #tagamemnon #tw rape #tw sa #tw sex assault #crying shaking throwing up #greek mythology #circe rant #odyssey rant #anti madeline miller #anti circe #the BOOK #Mad rambles

[canisalbus]

I just recently started following you so i don't have the full lore of your murderous gay religiously traumatized doggos, BUT, from my understanding, they are Italian and i don't know what part of Italy they are from, yet i can't help headcanoning Vasco as Tuscan, while Machete is probably from some part of Veneto. And as an Italian who has heard Tuscans and Veneto dialet, well it's an hilarious mental image.

Vasco is indeed Tuscan, Florentine to be specific. He comes from a wealthy and influential noble family that has lived in Florence for centuries. He's proud of his roots, and it's usually easy for strangers to tell where he's from. He's a resonably successful politician and has worked as an ambassador and representative of Florence on numerous occasions.

Machete is originally Sicilian (ironically about as far from Veneto as possible), although he was taken to mainland at young age and has lived in several places since then, before ending up in Rome. The way I see it, he exhibits very little local color, his demeanor and (even though Italian hadn't become a standardized language yet) way of speaking are formal, neutral and scarcely give away any hints about his personal history, at least in the 16th century canon.

#I tend to take the easy way out with the various Italian dialects/languages and temper their effect on how the dog world works #even though to my understanding in reality they differ drastically from each other even today and they aren't always mutually intelligible #especially when you compare northern and southern ones #I know at least Sicilian is so different from modern day Italian it's considered a separate language entirely #it isn't the only one but I'm not a linguist and not even Italian so I'm not really qualified to be explaining any of this to you #main point is that my dogs are well traveled educated and adaptable so I'd like to believe that they manage #otherwise making this whole scenario work would become very complicated #language barriers aplenty #Machete is a fast learner with a natural knack for languages so he absorbs/decodes new ones easily #and I can see him acting as an interpreter if necessary #which is a valuable trait for someone working as the secretary of state I'd imagine #a lot of people he ends up dealing with speak at least passable Latin so at a pinch they might perhaps try switching to that? #Vasco might have a Tuscan flavor but Machete is more of a blank slate (at least in public and at work) #answered #fallenoftheromaempire #feel free to correct me if I've gotten something wrong I'm not an expert and this stuff is complicated for an outsider

[barb-l]

While im on the topic, the seething hatred by a huge chunk of this fandom towards Vaggie is so baffling to me. I'm not saying I expected her to be popular. I'm not new to loving an unpopular/ignored character. But the way some of these people go out of their way to misinterpret her so badly to justify their very vocal hatred for her is just such a huge shock.

#sometimes i feel like i see more people hate on vaggie than i see people hate on Valentino #yunno. the man who abuses and rapes one of the main characters on the reg? that one?? #meanwhile Vaggie's just a latina lesbian who's maybe a lil too dedicated to her gf #and she gets such vitriolic hate #my brother for example doesn't really like her much cuz he's really picky about voice acting #and im fine with it. to each their own #but even he's confused about the majority's reception of her #hazbin hotel #wait no that sounds mean #ummmm more like #he said he would have liked her a lot more if her voice actor was different #so he likes her fine #and no he doesn't hate ms beatriz. he just would have preferred someone else

[solarpunkani]

Am I legally allowed to say that

“Solarpunk started as an aesthetic/literary movement so stop getting pissy when you see a lot of aesthetic/literary stuff in the tags and convos people have about it.”

And

“Solarpunk has and continues to rapidly evolve to include much more than aesthetics and thats great and valid and awesome expanding our aesthetic ideals into tangible work we can do for a better future and better now is fantastic.”

And

“With that being said, you don’t have to diss on the people who post mostly aesthetic stuff, and you don’t have to try and act like solarpunk was Always a Political/Radical Action Movement and had no history as an aesthetic/literary genre in order for your actions to be Valid.”

Are all points that can and should coexist?

#solarpunk #out of queue #ani rambles #i am rapidly getting tired of people going ‘no aesthetics only politics’ or ‘no politics only aesthetics’ #if you feel theres too much aesthetic stuff in the tag then i am ENCOURAGING you to add more conversations and ideas along the lines of #what you want to see more of in the tag. thats how you see more of it in the tag. #but also. acting like there should be NO aesthetic stuff in the tag or acting like it DOESNT have a history as an aesthetic genre #is fucking stupid and honestly just makes any further points you’re going to make sound dumb to me

[onaperduamedee]

Egwene al'Vere, how is she coming along?

#wot on prime #wot s2 spoilers #wot season 2 spoilers #the wheel of time #egwene al'vere #wheel of time s2 spoilers #wheel of time season 2 spoilers #heart of an aiel #mygifs #I have so much to say about the fact that she's an innkeeper's daughter still in that first scene #cleaning tables and picking up glasses #rising early and working hard #except now she feels the call for greatness #she heeded Siuan's words #but there's still such softness in her #like the dreams of a girl #she sees the stole and think about Siuan who isn't here and who received her here #I love that like Rand she's someone who's so interested in people underneath #that scene was probably the most striking to me in that first episode #the music and camera work and Maddie's lovely acting #I love that it comes straight after Moirain's scene too #really fantastic writing here

[redvelvetwishtree]

#the video i saw today i can't even write the child's body was completely dismembered and you can only feel like vomiting after seeing that #i don't know what's happening in this world #how can people still think positively about israel #they are monsters #and everyone who supports them knowing what they're doing is a monster #you can't have everything out on social media and still act dumb #palestine #free palestine #gaza #gaza strip #middle east #free gaza #israel

[miraculouslumination]

The audacity to be like "there's a problem with racism in transandrophobia discussions" while also unironically using the term "transandrophobia truther(s)"

#Jean mumbles #Of course there will almost always be racism in discussions of oppression #But like...bro are you really going to say this and then side with the exact same people #Who have constantly erased and silenced the voices of trans men of color and other marginalized trans men #Calling them shit like white-aligned or overall gatekeeping their blackness #Are you seriously not seeing how that call is coming from inside the house #And again - truther is something that has very heavy ties to antisemitism #So again. Are you really the hero because of this? #Are you actually helping people here? #Now I'm white so obviously take what I say here with as many grains of salt as you feel is best #But all I'm saying is that racism is fucking everywhere and there is not a single group in this discussion who is guilt free #And right now you're participating in the violent act of erasing and silencing the voices of non-white and non-gentile trans men and mascs #I wish the best to anyone who has fallen for this pandering bullshit #And a huge apology to all the trans m&ms this bullshit hurts #Transandrophobia #(Gatekeeping blackness but also just non-white raced and ethnicities in general)

[rojekte]

seeing people's takes about the whole watcher situation is just a bit.... mind-boggling.

i think the apology they posted was good in the sense that they admitted to fucking up and walked back on their decision, and i think the model they've settled on now is a lot more reasonable (having content be released earlier for those who choose to subscribe), but like.... that doesn't mean that no one should've ever been mad at them in the first place???

like seriously, why does it seem like people are looking at a "good" apology and thinking "huh! they sure did apologize well! i guess that means that it was ridiculous for people to be mad in the first place! no one should have ever complained!!". if no one complained, they wouldnt have walked back their decision! they would've kept going with their dumb completely paywalled option!

and thats not even getting into the fact that their financial woes seem to come from completely mismanaging their money - hiring people when they can not afford to and spending more money on "high quality productions" when they cant afford to.... these are core issues that im not sure will be completely fixed by this? but idk.

also, this situation i think has really helped my own self come to terms with the fact that i do not enjoy many aspects of their content. i sorta already knew that considering i can not remember the last ghost files video i watched because i find that shit incredibly boring and overproduced, and even things like too many spirits have become a chore to watch bc they decided to extend the Not That Funny drink making portion when i just wanna hear some funny spooky stories.

anyway i guess my ultimate point here is: im glad they acknowledged they fucked up, but i also am not sure how interested i am in their content anymore in the first place. oh well

#watcher #i still personally dont know if i would call them 'greedy' for their original choice #for the record: i dont think the three of them are struggling at all lmao #they clearly are living pretty well off #but i do think that watcher as a company really has been struggling bc of their awful business decisions #so i DO think they needed to change SOMETHING #its just.... yknow maybe next time just fucking ask ur audience about the routes ur considering taking #rather than just surprising everyone with a 'whoops! its all paywalled now!!' #im really not sure how to articulate my feelings bc i just constantly feel confused at the way i see others act online #like seeing people yell at others for being 'too parasocial' in the sense of people feeling betrayed and upset by their choices #when those same people are being incredibly parasocial themselves by defending these three like their lives depend on it #these are not starving artists. they are the owners of a business. a ceo. i think its fair for ppl to critique them in that sense #and to point out things like hiring more staff than they can afford #and spending more money on production than is arguably necessary #even if it is part of their 'artistic vision'