#Anyways my favorite interpretation of Jason and Dick is that post that’s like ‘I don’t view Dick and Jason as especially close because if | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

stxleslyds · 3 years

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I've seen a lot of fanon content about Jason being a fan of Wonder Woman. This is even acknowledged in #6 "Favoritism" in The Wayne Family Adventures web comic. Is there any evidence of this in Canon?

According to my memory, the closest thing that Jason has to an interaction with Wonder Woman was simply that he was on good terms with Donna Troy in post-Crisis Teen Titans. Or am I missing something?

Based on your interpretation of Jason, what do you think Red Hood thinks of Wonder Woman?

Oh! So, that’s why I have been seeing that concept floating around recently! The whole “Jason is a fan of Wonder Woman” thing had died down a little bit and now it was back and that might me corelated to that fandom concept making an appearance in the web comic…

Hmm, yeah, that concept is completely fanon, I mean, I don’t remember Jason acting like WW’s fan in his Robin years but he did meet her once (I will talk about that issue later on in this post because maybe that is where this fanon concept originated from. In his Red Hood years, I can’t say that he has mentioned WW as an inspiration or favourite hero (I will also talk about why that idea seems kinda weird to me too).

Jason did interact with Diana, it was in Superman (1939) Annual #11, I will show some of the panels that have Jason and Diana interacting (as Robin and Wonder Woman) and all that but from that comic that they shared I didn’t really see Jason as a fan of WW, he was respectful and he worried for her safety when she seemed to have been hurt but that was all, Jason was just being his usual sweet self. If anything, in that issue we were shown how much Jason cared for Bruce.

Something that I will bring up because you mentioned Jason’s interactions with Donna is that the Superman annual, I mentioned came out in September, 1985 and those New Teen Titans issues where Jason appeared in along Donna came out in May, 1986 (NTT #20, the first team up) and December, 1986 (NTT #26, the second time he joined the team). So, Jason, met Diana before he met Donna, I would honestly say that Robin Jason was actually more marvelled by Donna rather than Diana. Donna was a Titan and Dick’s friend and Jason really seemed to admire her up until a certain moment in one of those issues, I think you read those posts about Jason teaming up with the Titans but I will link them here anyway (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3), in case anyone wants to red them and for you guys to tell me if you see, like me, that Jason seemed to admire Donna more than Diana in the Superman issue I will talk about next.

Superman Annual #11

Jason and Bruce arrive to the Fortress of Solitude to celebrate Clark’s birthday, and that’s when Jason and Diana met for the first time, Diana even didn’t react much to Jason at the start because she thought that he was Dick! I don’t blame her; Jason and Dick look the same most of the time to me when they are in their Robin suits.

After she kisses him in the cheek, we get to see what Jason has to say about Diana, he is just worried Diana is feeling cold in the snow while wearing those shorts, now, I thought that was just an innocent thing that he said but apparently Bruce took it as Jason checking out Diana. Because I believe that Jason was the sweetest boy, I think that he just meant that Diana could have been cold and Bruce was the one having impure thoughts about her… I mean, after Bruce says that to Jason, he looks confused as all hell, to me he looks like he thinks that Bruce misunderstood his intentions with what he said.

So, to me, Jason really didn’t seem to be starstruck by Diana or Clark later on either.

Diana is talking to Jason like she talks to Bruce, she asks him about if he met Superman before, and he answers, all in all they have normal conversations and Jason still doesn’t seem like he is meeting his favourite hero. When Diana starts to talk only to Bruce, Jason doesn’t seem affected by that and he is the one that first notices the problem with the Superman that they are about to meet.

This isn’t a review of the issue, so I will explain as quickly as possible what was going on. Batman, Robin and Wonder Woman showed up at Superman’s place to celebrate his birthday and bring him some gifts but when they see him, they notice that he had been attacked by a weird looking plant that left him paralysed and trapped inside his own mind world. When they try to free him from it, Mongul (the villain) appears and Jason, once again, is the first one to notice his approach!

(Robin Jason was excellent at his job Lobdell and Zdarsky! Look at this shit, and keep on looking because Robin Jason saves the Trinity’s ass in this issue by himself!)

The fight starts with Mongul and WW, and after he throws her out of the room and it seems that the fight isn’t going in WW’s favour, we see Jason being worried for her safety but is quickly dismissed by Bruce who tells Jason not to worry because Mongul threw WW into the weapons room.

Due to that Jason moves on with Bruce to help Superman once more. Bruce asks Jason to retrieve Mongul’s gloves so he can remove the plant from Superman’s chest but all of the sudden the plant comes off, sadly, the plant only did that to insert itself in Bruce’s body. This is where we see Jason being incredibly worried for Bruce’s safety, because he cared so much he moved past his fear, grabbed those globes and took it upon himself to rip the plant off of Bruce’s chest and make a plan to defeat Mongul while the Trinity was being taken out one by one!

I know this is a post about Jason and Diana but I just can’t help be proud about my boy, he was such a good Robin, I can’t believe DC has lied so much about Jason’s abilities as Robin so much that most people believe that Jason was a bad Robin. What a horrible narrative to push about one of your characters, I swear I don’t understand DC’s thinking.

Anyway, after Jason gets the job done (with a little help from Superman) he and the others chat for a little while and then get together to get some coffee while Clark cleans the mess that Mongul made.

That’s all that happens in the issue where Jason and Diana met, their interactions seemed normal and respectful but Jason never looked like he was a big fan of Diana, as I said before all that was shown was that he cared for people when they were being hurt and he also showed how much he cared for Bruce.

Now if you ask me, I believe that Jason only saw Batman and Dick as his heroes. Jason always looked like he looked up to Batman until he started to feel a strain between them and then Jason acted like a true fan of Dick both times that Dick gave him his Robin suit, and I say that Dick was a hero to Jason because Jason showed sings of admiring Dick’s Robin AND Dick’s Nightwing.

I might be wrong but it does look to me like Jason was a bigger fan of Dick rather than Diana in those panels compared to Superman Annual #11.

Now, going back to what you actually asked, this is the only interaction between Jason and Diana that comes to mind and the one that I believe might have originated that fanon concept. There is though another moment that might have fed that concept but it is not really an interaction between Jason and Diana, but between Jason and Donna from Earth-15 that looked exactly like Diana in Countdown to Infinite Crisis #30.

The people that appear in that panel in the Wonder Woman and Batman suits are actually Donna Troy and Jason Todd from Earth-15. I really don’t know if that issue really fed into the Jason being a fan of WW but if it did, then that wasn’t Diana, that was Donna.

To answer your other question “Based on your interpretation of Jason, what do you think Red Hood thinks of Wonder Woman?”, I would say that while I can see Robin Jason having been a fan of hers (even though it was never shown in canon as far as I know), I really don’t see Red Hood Jason as a fan of Wonder Woman.

Wonder Woman stands for many things, among them we have truth, justice and peace. When Jason first became the Red Hood, he was seeking justice but not in others, he was the one that was judge, jury and executioner. As time passed by Jason didn’t really fight for justice but for “the cause��, in New 52 he had that whole “chosen one” thing with the All-Castle, so, his fight against drugs and the creeps of Gotham (and other places) kinda stopped, and then in Rebirth it kinda come back but also didn’t.

That sense of justice that I know is so important to Jason’s Red Hood makes a comeback in Urban Legends: Cheer (Yeah… it was awfully written but that sense of justice did make an appearance finally).

So, on the justice side I can sort of see Jason admiring Diana but not really because Jason is also jury and executioner and Diana has never been that and she doesn’t stand for that at all (at least not as far as I know). Diana doesn’t kill and she is always trying to give people a second chance, she believes in humanity and hopes that we will be better.

Jason, the way I see it, doesn’t see the world like that, I strongly believe he has a darker and more pessimistic way of looking at humanity and the horrors that we can put others through.

The way I see it, I could see Jason admiring the fact that Diana keeps on her faith in humanity and she seeks justice in a pacific way but I also don’t really think Jason cares about how Wonder Woman sees the world. Like, it can work either way in my mind, and I never really though of Jason actually being a Wonder Woman fan, maybe I can see him acting like Thor when he met Valkyrie in Thor: Ragnarök, in that movie Thor was just excited to meet a Valkyrie, maybe Jason was just excited to meet an Amazon!

Jason has had several interactions with Amazons, (Diana, Donna and Artemis) so that makes me believe that if Jason is a fan of anyone, it would actually be strong warrior women and not just simply Wonder Woman.

I don’t know, to me it makes sense, Jason has always been protective of women that could not defend themselves but also saw strength in them, like he saw it in Judy in Batman #422 when she killed the man that had murdered her sister. And later on he saw power and strength in both Donna and Kory when he fought alongside the Titans.

So, I would actually say that Red Hood isn’t a fan of Wonder Woman but I believe he is a fan and supporter of wonderful women.

There is my answer friend! I hope you have a wonderful day!

#jason todd #red hood #wonder woman #donna troy #diana prince #robin jason todd #dc comcis #new teen titans #earth-15 #dick grayson #nightwing #superman annual 11

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danny-chase · 3 years

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Hello, are there any Cassandra Cain fans/stans that could help me out with her characterization? I’ve just started to get into writing fanfiction (I haven’t posted any, and am working towards getting more confident with writing the characters in general so hopefully I’ll post some someday) and I haven’t been in the fandom long. Cass is a confusing character for me to write, mostly because I feel like she’s written differently in everything she’s in. And her personality absolutely got erased and overhauled in the New52. I’ve read some of her Batgirl run (it was awhile ago ngl) and I read the storyline where she was introduced in the New52 and the Rise and the Fall of the Batmen (I think that’s the arc she’s involved in with Detective Comics). Idk, more under cut.

My goal in writing Cass is to make her seem like a real person and I’m drawing more on pre-New52 than post-New52. I feel like she used to have so much more to her than just being like a perfect person and the sweetest person in general. Not that she can’t be sweet (I love cinnamon bun Cass too), but she used to have much more grit to her personality it seems like. I’m blending the two personalities, and I’d really like to focus on her love for dance, it’s one of the changes I really liked, and of course her connections to her siblings because I love sibling dynamics. Currently I’m working on a fic where she ends up dancing with each of her siblings. I like the idea of writing her as a bit snarky or sassy (the kind of person that just stares at you with the “really” expression when you do something dumb), more introverted, a bit of a little shit, self deprecating, but genuinely kind hearted, driven, and a perfectionist. I also don’t want to write her as being a magic character that instantly knows what’s wrong with a character. Yeah, she can read body language, but her family is good at hiding things, they’ve been trained recognizing body language and I’m guessing some of them have worked to have good control over their own. My interpretation is she can tell what people are feeling but not why, and how they’re going to move. I’ve written a little bit of the fic so far (um please don’t feel obligated to read through it, any comments on how you think Cass should be written is helpful) so I’ll post it below. Thanks for reading this far if you made it XD.

I don’t have a title for this lmao but the fic starts here:

“Hey.” Dick gently placed a hand on her shoulder as he hopped down from his spot on the water tower. “You know who’s my most favorite, strongest, most beautiful, spectacular-”

Cass groaned; he was making the face. He was wearing his Nightwing mask, but as she turned to look, she could already tell he was making the face. Dick ignored her groans and continued “-most perfect, amazing, gorgeous, sweetest, nicest, kindhearted, thoughtful-”

Cass pulled away; she would not be doing what he asked. Nope. The last time she heard Dick talking like this, Barbara ended up agreeing to dog sit for Titus. The dog chewed everything in the clocktower; they were still finding ripped up socks in various locations. “He’s so well behaved” he said. “It won’t be for that long” he said. “You’re the best thank you so, so much” he said. On the bright side, Dick had bought her new ballet shoes to replace the ones Titus tore through. But they’d taken weeks to break in and-oh he was still talking.

“-smartest, wisest, funniest, loveliest, badass, awesomest, funnest-” Cass placed her hands on her hips and stood up to meet him. The stakeout had been going fine on her own, at this rate she probably didn’t need his backup anyways, so if this was something stupid, she could always tell him to leave. She gave him her best “bat-glare” as he continued to mumble on compliments. “fantastic, reliable, trustworthy-” his voice grew smaller as she continued glaring. He cleared his throat “sister of all time?” He finished.

Cass sighed and leaned back against the tower’s support. “What do you want?” Dick gave her a weak smile, embarrassment radiated off him. That couldn’t be good.

“Look, I’ll cut to the chase.” Thank heavens for that. “But like, just know I love you so much.” Cass wished she could stick her tongue out, maybe the domino mask was the way to go. She settled for lightly shoving his shoulder. He grinned at her, doing his best to seem casual, but slight tension in his neck gave away his discomfort. Dick was always hard for her to read, he was a performer from birth, and had excellent control of his posture and facial expressions. He gave himself away in movement, in the lack thereof. He could paint the perfect mask, but it slipped slightly when he moved. He was nervous, anxious, exasperated, and worried. Cass was intrigued.

“What is it?” She said, more gently than before, turning back to watch her mark. She could hear Dick let out a deep breath.

“It’s Da-Robin. He got invited to a formal.” Cass turned back and cocked her head. “Don’t give me that look, you know how he is.” He said, shifting his weight. “It’s a school event, so they’ve been learning ballroom dance in gym. But I got a call the other day from the gym teacher saying he’s not participating.”

“Why should he?” Cass asked. “You shouldn’t force people to do things they don’t want to do.” Living with the family long enough had taught her that. If the kid didn’t want to dance, he shouldn’t have to.

“Yeah, I know.” Dick replied a bit flatly. He moved to crouch where she had been sitting and focused on the building across the street. “But I don’t know if he doesn’t want to, or if he’s just embarrassed.” Cass thought for a moment. “I don’t suppose he grew up with many dance lessons.” He added a bit apologetically. She shook her head.

“Have you talked to him?” She asked. Dick sighed.

“I tried. But he kept switching topics and when I pressed it, he locked himself in his room. Which is why I’m concerned.” Cass hummed in affirmation. It made sense.

“Why haven’t you tried teaching him?” Dick wasn’t a bad dancer, and he’d always performed quite well at the galas.

He looked back at her sheepishly. “I gave it a go last time I was at the manor. But he stormed off before we could get anything done. Something about me being an embarrassment to the family.”

Cass rolled her eyes under the cowl. “What did you do?”

“I just wanted to do some jazzercising to warm up, what’s wrong with that?” Dick spluttered in response. Cass lightly smacked the back of his head. “So anyways, I lost my chance at it. I can’t even play music without him running away.” He continued, ducking away as she tried to tap him again. “Besides, you’re probably a better height to practice with for him.” She scoffed in response.

“When’s the gala?” She asked. It slipped out without her permission. She wasn’t getting involved. The kid could figure it out on his own. Couldn’t he?

“It’s next weekend.” He replied and sighed. “I don’t want him to miss it. He never does stuff that’s age appropriate.” Oh, no. Not that card. Cass would not be involved, she had work to do. She stepped back to lean against the tower again and bit her lip. “And some girl in his class asked him to go. Her name’s Maps and she’s a really good influence on him.” She crossed her arms tighter. Damian was rude to her. He called her Cain. Not. Getting. Involved. “She’s so energetic, it helps him loosen up-” Damnit.

“Fine.” Dick whipped around to look at her, not bothering to hide his disbelief. She squirmed internally. It wasn’t that she didn’t care about the kid. It was just easier to spend time on her own. The kid was better off without her influence anyways.

“Are you sure, I could ask Steph or I don’t know-” He continued.

She cut him off. “I’ll do it. I don’t mind.” The others wouldn’t work. Dick knew that going into the conversation. They were too…loud in their judgement. Steph would laugh at the wrong time, Tim would say the wrong thing, Jason didn’t have the patience for the kid’s temper, and Duke would be a safe bet, but was away on Outsider business for the next two weeks.

Dick practically melted in relief. “Thank you so-”

“You owe me, big brother.” Cass reminded.

“Anything you want, little sister.” He promised. “Are hugs acceptable as a down payment? I could kiss you right now.”

“Eww.” Cass made a face under the mask but strode forward as he opened his arms and stood for a hug. He eagerly wrapped her in a bear hug. She couldn’t help but laugh.

“You’re winning sister of the year award.” He said as he released her.

“You’re making me cookies.” She retorted. Dick grimaced.

“Can I buy them?” He asked hesitantly. She shook her head.

“Homemade, with love. And I’m watching.” She added, smirking under the mask. Dick sunk back down into position.

“I’ll do my best.” He promised. Cass snickered. The last time Dick tried making cookies, he apparently caught his oven mitts on fire. There was still a bit of cookie dough on the ceiling he hadn’t noticed yet.

A flash of movement jolted her back into reality, their mark was making his move. She shot her grapple, and Dick quickly followed suit. “I’ll text you the plan tomorrow.” He promised as they leapt into the night.

Thanks so much if you read this far, and please comment or send me feedback directly if you have the time and don’t mind. I’m sorry if you completely disagree with how I characterized her (or Dick/Damian for that matter) I’m mostly relying on Damian’s canon interactions with her and Dick’s half canon half fanon personality (I know they don’t get on great in the comics...but sibling dynamics) and the rest of this portion of the fic would focus on Damian earning more respect for her (and learning to call her Cass - not Cain).

#i don't know how i feel about posting this #this is the first time i've posted some of my writing #and it isn't betad or anything #please help me #i don't know what i'm doing #i don't even have an AO3 account cuz i'm such a noob #it's gonna take time #a whole lot of precious time #but someday i will hopefully post a fic or two #if i ever finish one of them...#cassandra cain #batgirls #batfam #batman #dc #black bat #orphan

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palmett-hoes · 4 years

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Hi, I really loved your post with the monsters as Birds of Prey! Was wondering if you had any thoughts on the Foxes as Marvel or Mcu characters? I feel like I could see Dan as Carol Danvers and Andrew for sure is Jessica Jones, idk about the rest.

oh wow old post!!

haha unfortunately i’m not really a comics person so i don’t feel like i can really give the best analysis possible, but i have seen most of the mcu movies and bits and pieces of the netflix show so i’ll try my best. also im using dc characters too bc i want to

1. Dan: I think your instinct with Dan as Captain Marvel is spot-on (at least uhhh,, based on the movie lol sorry comics ppl). Her direct, forceful powers and fighting style are definitely reminiscent of dan’s no-nonsense leadership approach. similarly the themes of overcoming sexism and acceling in a male-dominated industry in the captain marvel movie is pretty much the same as dan’s story establishing herself as the first female exy captain (tho sports is way more valid than the military). plus there’s a lot of emphasis on love and friendship between women that dan is ALL about. also lashana lynch would be a god tier dan wilds fc. Dan could also def have that lawful good Okoye from Black Panther energy. Loyal, disciplined, no-nonsense leader. no powers except discipline. no hair. also danai gurira in 2012 with the dreads and the sword and the cape on TWD was definitely part of my middle school sexual awakening

2. Kevin: Aquaman. this is based pretty much exclusively on the fact that jason momoa is my #1 kevin fc and also that Pasifika kevin is phenomenal and mandatory, actually. otherwise i think he has a decent amount of stick-up-the-ass cyclops energy. or dick grayson nightwing energy but i don’t have any evidence for why. kinda looks like him tho

3. Andrew: andrew gets the most characters bc he’s my favorite. i think ur jessica jones instincts are absolutely correct, both in her storyline (i only watched the first season) and her powers. i’ve seen some powers au and the tendency seems to be giving andrew like,, psychic powers or the like, and i don’t really agree. andrew is a very direct character. he’s pragmatic, he confronts problems head on, and he doesn’t muck about in details. to me this really translates best into physical powers like super strength that help u big punch straight thru all ur problems. also i def think andrew would be not just a solo hero but a mercenary (or a detective) because he’s not altruistic enough to be a standard vigilante. he doesn’t care enough about other people to hang out on rooftops all night waiting for Crime to occur. there’s a price for that. which brings us to the NEXT andrew hero: deadpool. maybe in personality more of a drugged andrew but the superpowered mercenary is really a perfect fit for andrew. also, healing powers have a decidedly tragic poetry to them on andrew. already he’s self-destructive, if he had a healing factor his concern for his own well-being would be so beyond rock bottom it’d be in the earth’s core. even worse when you remember that with a healing factor, as opposed to indestructibility, you still feel all the pain. which brings us to Wolverine and X-23, who have the same thematic points as deadpool but are much more of a personality match and they have knife hands, which i really think andrew would appreciate. ending that sadness train and onto another tho, andrew’s aesthetic and Vibes fit the Winter Soldier just SO well (just that movie tho, not really civil war or anything past that) and a reinterpretation of the captain america story using the twinyards would be incredibly interesting. and finally, one last hero that would work really well for andrew: rogue, only remove the angst around not being able to touch people, andrew would love that. one touch and their comatose? baller. don't fucking touch him.

4. Matt: Shazam. I didn’t see the shazam movie but my dad and brother did and they said it was very funny and all the trailors looked like it had a lot of fun himbo energy and i really think that fits. in terms of matching himbo disaster energy i think i’ve heard good things about comics hawkeye (not mcu). thor?

5. Aaron: Mr. Fantastic. now this might be a stretch but aaron is a character who uses a skin-deep veneer of anger to cover the fact that he’s actually quite pliant and bends to other people’s wills. and he’s a doctor or w/e. he could alse be like,, antman. he’s smart right? hank pym not paul rudd. katelyn can be wasp

6. Seth: Arm Fall Off Boy. no i will not elaborate. ..... ugh fine, but i'm using my favorite piece of superhero media of all time: x-men evolution, the one where they're all teenagers in public high school. seth can be lance alvers/avalanche who’s a bit of a jerk and has a lot of issues with authority and has a rivalry with cyclops very reminiscent of seth with kevin, but still there’s the recurring theme that he’s lashing out because of low self-esteem and a bad situation and he’s a surprisingly sympathetic character who i’m very fond of. his power is earthquakes but i think the name makes that pretty self-explanatory

7. Allison: Iron Man. cocky, bitchy, and rich rich rich. sounds like allison to me. then to elevate it a level higher: emma frost, rich bitch extraordinaire. also if allison had telepathic powers she would be unstoppable. plus one more bitchy, morally-gray blonde (but chaotic this time): Harley Quinn

8. Nicky: Okay so I do wanna give a quick shout-out to Northstar, the first openly gay comicbook superhero, who’s a speedster which I’d actually say fits Nicky pretty well. However, if i had to choose a superhero to represent nicky in presence and powers it would have to be Jubilee from x-men (... from what i’ve heard lol. i’ve never actually consumed any of her Media hahaha anyway) she’s a joyful, energetic presence and her powers are setting off fireworks which i think is a good balance of nicky being a supportive cousin-parent AND a chaotic train wreck garbage trash man. also gonna throw in johnny storm for a cheap 'flaming' joke

9. Renee: Thunder/Blackbird from Black Lightning bc she’s a fufkin lesbian lol. (i don’t watch the show but i do follow nafessa williams’s tag). now the fr ones i’m gonna do together because to me they have the same Vibes so i chose them for the same reasons. Wonder Woman and Storm who to me have the same reserved, impartial, regal energy. honestly ethereal and somewhat otherwordly, and quite literally goddesses. also op as hell. black widow and her “red in my leger” looking for redemption story also fits thematically.

10. Neil: okay lazy answer first: the flash or quicksilver. get it? because they run fast? and neil run too? yea i like to think i've proven myself to be better than such a surface level interpretation but worth the mention ig. so for srs now, mystique and her shape changing powers would be an interesting interpretation of neil's identity issues, but i wanna push it a step further. nightcrawler would actually be possibly the MOST interesting hero to apply to neil 1. because powers still very movement go fast place to place 2. because of the thematic focus on neil's unusual looks and the lengths he goes to hide them, very much in line with the way nightcrawler will use a hologram-projector in order to look human, yet in both cases it's only a surface-level illusion, and 3. his parentage. here, mary would be mystique, which i also think works very well considering mary seemed to be the far more effective chameleon on the run than neil, and also fits with her place as a morally grey character, as mystique herself is often a villain or an antagonist, with her own agenda and shadowy motives. then nathan matches well with nightcrawler's father: azazel, a literal demon, and also where kurt gets his appearance. it's a shockingly coherent narrative between the three of them. then, to also give neil some powers that aren't contingent on his fucked up geneology and rather on his own merit and abilities, Black Canary and her sonic voice parallel the way that neil began to anchor his identity and take ownership over himself through his voice and his sick roasts

and 1 extra, wymack: batman, on account of his altruism, his dedication to second chances, and his many, many adopted children

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anon, ik it's been a sec since you sent this, so i hope it gets back to you. i had a fun time with it and it prompted like,,, 7 different au s that i'll never write

#Anonymous #txt #the foxes #im talkin #my posts

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bluegarners · 3 years

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If you're taking asks I would love to hear your thoughs about the Ric arc and the current state of Nightwing comics!!!!!!!!!! :))

Oh goodness, where to begin...

To start, I share a lot of the same opinions as @nightwingmyboi and @hood-ex ~~ they have very extensive and well thought out takes on the Ric Arc and the general direction DC has decided to take Dick Grayson with, along with his legacy of Nightwing. I highly suggest you read some of their posts about it, as they are very informative and probably more well versed in explaining opinions, haha!

So, my thoughts on the Ric Arc? Like most fans of Nightwing, I believe it kinda sucked ass. Like, sucked ass in the way where DC kinda just forgot characterizations (again), made it all about Batman (again), and ignored good side characters (Bea). The only thing positive I can really say about that whole arc was the art- I really enjoyed the take on Dick's features in Nightwing #74. I was happy they gave him more ethnic looking features with the fuller lips and the more angular nose. (However, they kinda screwed up with the heights??? Jason was tiny!! Barely 5' 4" it looked like LOL) The colors were pretty as well, Ryan Benjamin is a favorite artist of mine, and most of the scenes were fluid.

Another positive I can say about the Ric Arc is one of the very beginning scenes, where Damian goes to see Dick in the hospital while he's still recovering. It was moving that they let Damian be an impatient child when "demanding" for Dick to wake up, and then follow it up with him essentially fleeing and crying when he's not answered. Of course, Damian isn't really mentioned again after this, but it was still really nice to see this side of his character.

The plot.... where do I start? I don't think I'll get too much into it because it'll only frusturate me more sdfslhf but I'll say this. While I am a fan of Dick Grayson angst, DC made it very... unenjoyable, for lack of a better word. It felt like they just threw in as many villains as possible, what with the introduction of the new "sidekick" for Joker, aka Punchline, the Court of Owls appearing for a very brief time just to screw with Dick's memory more, KGBeast and Bane conspiring to get to Batman through Nightwing BY SHOOTING HIM IN THE HEAD (okay, mini rant here: DC, if you're going to make this comic about Nightwing, please please please actually make it about Nightwing. Make the problem about him, not Batman. I get that Bane is kind of the main motivator here, what with him trying to break Batman by killing his oldest allie and destroying his marriage with Seleina, but surely there are writers at the DC headquarters that can come up with a separate problem that doesn't always involve Batman. Surely that's possible right? Nightwing's whole persona was made so he could be recognized separately from Batman; stepping away from Robin was supposed to free Dick of his restrictive ties to the Bat symbol. By always tying Dick's problems immediately back to Batman or one of his enemies, it defeats the purpose of Nightwing being his own hero with his own villians and his own freakin city with its own dozens of problems!!)

Continuing on with villains, here's what I can remember off the top of my head: KGBeast, Bane, Punchline, Joker, Harely (not really, but I'm going to add her anyway), Talon, and the Court of Owls. Now, this is going to controversial, but I'm also going to add the Batfam as part of that list, and here's why. They didn't care. Plain and simple, they didn't care about Ric, they only cared about Dick and what he could do for them. There were a grand total of maybe three times where the Batfam reached out to Ric to try and reason with him, but before all of that, they re-traumatized an already amnesiac and confused person by showing him get assassinated. Like, Bruce. Wth?? I know a lot of this was mostly character assassination, especially with Barbara, but come on. Barbara was really weird throughout this entire arc, and even after he goes back to "normal", she blames Dick for being mean to her, completely ignoring the fact that he didn't know who she was half the time. And that he was, ya know,

mind controlled by multiple villains for a majority of the comic.

Moving past all of that, since I feel like I could rant for ages about it, I didn't like how abruptly they ended that arc. The crystal being my main problem. DC has many scapegoats, the lazerous pit being their biggest imo, but a crystal? All they had to do was show it to him and BOOM cured??? There was no character development. The build up to it could hardly be called build up, as it was done and over with in the span of a few panels. Nothing felt high stakes anymore, and then after he got his memories back, everyone cheered and was like "yay, he's back to normal! you were a real ass to us, and we're not going to apologize for leaving you homeless and left to fend for yourself against all these villains even though you had no memories! oh, but don't worry! we were watching this whole time, so we just let all that stuff happen to you! wow, so glad you're back- we really need Nightwing, but I guess having Dick back is okay too."

That's a very crass interpretation of what went down, but that's what happened. Bruce's half assed excuse of "I was always watching" was awful because then it just leads to more problems of, oh well, if you were always there, why didn't you rent him an apartment so he didn't have to live out of his taxi? Or get him out of trouble and bar fights? Or stop the Joker from getting him and taking control of his mind? Or any numerous terrible things that happened to Ric? It's just annoying that no one seems to actually try and emphathize with what Dick went through, and it's all getting brushed to the side in favour of, "oh, well, back to work!"

They could've gone down so many pathways with Dick getting shot in the head, but instead they gave him amnesia, trauma, bad reception from the fam, and being passed around from villian to villain just to be used over and over again. It felt like this weird dump fest where the writers just woke up one morning and was like, "how many characters can we fit into this arc to get the most amount of readers as possible? How can we become more controversial?"

I know that in the arc after Ric, we're getting some of the aftermath. I'm so so happy they let Dick cry over Alfred's death (he really needed that release of emotions, poor boy has been bottling them up for the sake of others [again, DC, I know he's supposed to be the emotionally controlled one, but please let him be healthy with his emotions and not a shut in with them]) but they still haven't addressed Damian? Like, Dick and Damian were arguably the closest before shit hit the fan, and Dick isn't wondering where the kid is? Or exactly what happened with Alfred and how Damian witnessed it?? A large part of it is the Batfam not telling Dick any of it and kind of just leaving him to his own devices now that the "issue" has been resolved (sound familiar? history repeats itself yet again....). Something else that bugs me a bit is that everyone is telling Dick what he should be feeling/thinking/doing/etc. No one's letting him... grieve. Like, Dick just got his memories back and he's probably grappling with old trauma that's now fresh in his face. Additionally, everyone is assuming he's just going to go back to normal, as if none of what just happened, well, happened. They're erasing this brand spanking new trauma, along with the news that Alfred was murdered, and the fact that Dick is still trying to do his best for his family because it's whats expected of him. I mentioned earlier that Barbara was being really weird, @nightwingmyboi actually already made a post about it, but when Dick tries to apologize and talk to her about what happened when he was Ric, she just kind of... runs away? Dramatically? Didn't even attempt to hear what dick had to say- she was just so consumed with her own hurt that talking wasn't an option for whatever reason. WHICH IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF HER CHARACTER. It's frusturating because Dick is doing his best to apologize to people when he should have nothing to apologize for- he wasn't under any of his own control and the things he did while Ric or "Dickie-boy" weren't under his own will. If anything, Dick is the one that should get an apology and a hug; he's been through so much and no one seems to be acknowledging that.

All of that to say: I liked the idea of what the Ric arc could've offered, but the plot fell through and just disappointed a lot of people. I'm hoping a lot of the issues presented in the Ric arc that went unaddressed do end up being properly resolved in the newer arcs coming out, but I'm not going to be surprised if it doesn't. Sorry for the long answer LOL

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roguish-gallery · 4 years

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Did you ever make that joker tier list, I always like seeing what people think of all the different ones. Though if they put Romero last I can no longer respect them.

LMAO I DID! I think I’ve made it kind of obvious in this blog but I... don’t... particularly... care... for... the joker.... unless he’s, y’know, fun to watch. Cause he’s a clown, and clowns are supposed to be entertaining. But since you politely brought it up, and and because I have a deep respect for mutual Romero-lovers, I guess this would be a good time to explain my rankings and just discuss my general thoughts on each clown:

General Thoughts:

For the most part, I don’t really care for the Joker. This is hardly an uncommon opinion here on tumblr, but I definitely fall on the side of the fandom that feels that he gets too much attention from DC. I get WHY they use him so often for films and comics, and I don’t have anything against *most* folks who consider them their favorite Batman villain, but at this point he’s used more for shock value and as a crutch instead of anything interesting. Like, instead of giving attention to the other Rogues, writers (at least for the comics) will try and make up some bullshit story that they can shoehorn the Joker into, ‘cause it sells. It’s tiring, and I feel like the character has lost his meaning; I can only read so many stories about the Joker, I don’t fucking know, wearing a suit made from dead babies and Jason Todd’s flayed corpse before I get sick of it.

I’m at the point where I’ll like any Joker who’s just fun to watch. I genuinely respect those who prefer darker interpretations of the character, but that isn’t me; I vastly prefer the lighthearted takes on him, because... at this point... writers who use the “cleaner” version of him tend to be more creative, since they actually have to write a Joker story that doesn’t rely on gore/torture porn.

TIER ONE:

Joker Baby: Self explanatory. Joker Baby is thematic, thoughtful, and intense. Everytime I watch this video, I shiver with fear and pleasure; something primal in me awakens whenever Joker Baby runs his fingers through his spray-on dyed hair, and ends up smearing green paint on his forehead- it represents the inner turmoil, the chaos, that resides within the disturbed body that is Joker Baby. Nothing can ever hope to top the artistic and cultural impact Joker Baby has had on society.

TIER TWO:

Batman Ninja: I genuinely believe that Batman Ninja is one of the most fun, organic, and creative things to come out from the Batman side of DC comics in like... hmmm... a decade, maybe (I could talk for hours about how much I love this movie but that’s something for a future post). This Joker is easily, and unironically my favorite interpretation of the character, period. I love his energy, his design, everything. This is the most fun I’ve ever had watching a Joker on-screen, and for that I’ve gotta give the film credit where it is due.

Batman ‘66: I looooove Caesar Romero. Batman ‘66 in general is one of my favorite pieces of Batman media, and I absolutely adore this Joker. The show is pure, genuine fun, and it’s nice to turn my brain off and watch a show where the entire cast was allowed to goof around. This Joker is just a cute, goofy little clown-man who likes to commit crimes, go surfing, turn Gotham’s water reserve into gelatin, and have wild orgies with Penguin, Catwoman, and the Riddler. I massively appreciate the hustle. I love his little mustache and his facial expressions. I’d give him a chaste little kiss on the cheek if I could.

The Batman: EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL TAKE BUT. I think TB!Joker is better than what people will give him credit for. I can only imagine how stressful it must have been to be the first Batman cartoon to follow BTAS and the writers for this show knew they were gonna be fucked no matter what they did with the Joker, so they just decided to try something completely different with him. Personally, I appreciate the new direction- he has a fun, unhinged energy. I’ve placed him higher than BTAS/BTNA!Joker simply because The Batman was the show that got me into the Rogues in the first place, and I’m just a bit closer to this Joker because of it. Also his vampire form was cool as FUCK in Batman Vs. Dracula and the scene where he gets drenched in blood at a blood bank is fucking awesome.

Batman the Animated Series/The New Adventures: Everyone loves BTAS’s Joker, and I’m no exception. Mark Hamill is fucking great, and the writers clearly knew the character well enough to create a version of him that can be fun and threatening. As an aside, I unironically like his redesign in BTNA- I remember Hamill mentioning somewhere that he thought it was neat that this Joker looked more like a shark (I’ll see if I can find a source on that... I think he said it in an interview with Kevin Smith?) and I kinda agree with him. the redesigns in the final season are hit or miss, but I didn’t get why so many people bitched about the Joker’s new look.

Batman Unlimited: Hear me out... Hear me out... Clown... funny... and cute... He wears a little crown and gives Solomon Grundy a little smooch on the cheek and it is as delightful as it sounds. Yes the Batman Unlimited films literally only exist to sell toys but that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy them on some ironic level.

TIER THREE:

Lego Batman: He’s a gay icon. He has the range. Enough said.

White Knight: This is just a genuinely good, original take on the character, and the art in White Knight is absolutely gorgeous.

Arkham: My friends and I joke that this Joker is basically a more unhinged version of BTAS! Joker and... yeah. I’m glad Hamill and Paul Dini got to fuck around with the character more, but I never really dwelled on the Joker parts of the games like I might have for other characters. I definitely liked him the most in Arkham Asylum, as he was more fun to watch. Arkham City was fiiiiine, but I think I replayed the game so much that I kinda got fatigued with everything about it. Genuinely hated his part in Origins, and I was pissed that he stole the attention from Black Mask and Bane (who’s the best fucking part of Origins IMO). I’ll admit that I... Haven’t... played... Knight yet (I have it on PC but my laptop is too wimpy to run it) but like... He’s dead at that point, so I’d assume he isn’t the main point of that game anyway. I love Mark Hamill and the fact I can personally beat the shit out of this Joker, so he’s ranked up pretty high for those reasons.

TIER FOUR:

Batman ‘89: TBH this Joker should be a rank higher, but I’m too lazy to hop onto PicsArt to change it. NIcholson was an excellent choice, and I apprecaite how this Joker makes use of the playful and unhinged aspects of the character. Also, his outfits are cute, and I love the museum scene.

Brave and the Bold: Technically this Joker SHOULD be ranked higher since he’s literally based on the more lighthearted comics in the 60′s but... ehhh... I haven’t really watched BATB so I don’t have any strong opinions on the show and how it handles the character. he’s ranked this high through beause I appreciate what they were going for.

Golden Age: The quality of comics are always subjective, based on the creative team behind them. Some I’ll like more, others less so, It’s kind of hard to rank the pre-52 comic version of the Joker because of this.

TIER FIVE:

Killing Joke: Read it, didn’t care for it. I acknowledge how massive the impact this comic had on... everything, but just because I recognize how important this graphic novel is, doesn’t mean I have to like it.

The Dark Knight: Ledger did an excellent job with the role, but uhh... I’m kind of sick of the alt-right chuds who are out there sucking this Joker’s dick. The fanbase definitely ruined the character for me.

TIER SIX:

99′: Eh

Endgame: No

Suicide Squad: NO

Death of the Family: Hate him. Despise him. Lame stupid dumb little edgy bitch.

Gotham (Jeremiah): I don’t particulary care for Gotham in general, but the only reason I ranked this Joker over Jerome is beause I thought it was kinda funny to see that they made him a little rat-man, and I liked watching all the fujoshi on here cry and complain that they can’t ship this version of the joker with the pre-pubescent Bruce Wayne in the show bc he’s too ugly.

Gotham (Jerome): stop shippping this freak (who is fucking eighteen years old) with a literal twelve year old child. what the FUCK is wrong with yall.

UNRANKED:

The Joker (2019): I don’t plan on watching this film, nor will I ever. I know this is ironic, coming from someone who runs a Rogue blog, but stuff that focuses primarily on a character’s deteriorating mental health makes me reaaaaallllllyyyyy anxious (it’s kind of a phobia) and considering that I don’t particularly the Joker, I have no reason to watch something I know will only give my dumb ADHD-ass intrusive throughts.

#tier list #this was nice to finally write out- I don't typically write Joker stuff unless someone prompts it #the joker #gonna tag this as discourse just to hopefully keep it out of ppl's feed #bc i know how... defensive... joker fans... can get...#discourse #long post

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firefrightfic · 7 years

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PART 1 I know this is a strange question but how do you view Jasons appearance in terms of how attractive he is? For the longest time I assumed he wasnt really anything special, super average. But of course fics pushed a more hot image of him and then DC canon kept hinting at the fact that he is indeed a very a handsome (bad) boy. I think it even showed up on his dc profile at some point. But he himself doesnt acknowledge that fact perhaps due to insecurities? Point is now I see Jason as

PART 2 someone who is not the same level of supermodel sexy and instant head turner that Dick is, for me that is certain simply cause it would negate all the ‘dick is the hottest hero in dc’ stuff. I wouldn’t make this comparison if there already wasn’t such a clear competitive streak between them (plus since I ship them and I have to know!). I personally see Jason as a handsome birb now, dare I even say pretty at times what with his striking gaze and sharp jawline etc HOWEVER his general PART 3 persona is not the welcoming aura that Dick leaves behind. He doesnt have the winning smile but the sarcastic smirk, he doesnt have bright friendly eyes but ones that are hooded, guarded even. And people avoid his eye since he has a resting b**** face that is intimidating and does not do justice to how GOOD he CAN look. Anyway thats how I interpret his supposed canon/fic good looks and why they are not capitalized on more. What is your impression of his looks? Like in your writing? :) Part 4 WHoops I ran outta room on the ask, I forgot to add, I hope you have a lovely day, you are by far one of my favorite writers, and thank you for your fics, you deserve way more appreciation for your work, which always has such a high quality, its truly amazing!

Hi! Thanks for your question (and for saying such lovely things, you’re too kind

I talked a bit about my personal take on Jason’s appearance back in my favourite canon depictions post, and I absolutely see him as a good looking guy. Not bordering on pretty as much as Dick or Tim, and striking more than traditionally handsome, but good looking certainly, with sharp features, a slightly crooked nose (from being broken one too many times), bold eyebrows, thick black hair (which is loosely curling), and most of all, distinct eyes. I always imagine when people look at Jason, it’s his eyes that capture their attention most, with that shade caught between blue and green, highlighted by the fact he has unusually thick eyelashes no need for mascara there.

Even ignoring personal interpretation, Jason is canonically tall, well built, has amazing thighs and depending on the artist since the New 52, somewhere on the line between handsome and pretty. The way Dexter Soy and Alisson Borges draw him is particularly perfect to me.

I also absolutely agree with you that the discrepancy comes in with how Jason views himself. This boy just does not have good opinions about himself, and I think his appearance is included as a part of that. He’s not completely self-loathing over his looks, but he doesn’t think of himself as anything special either, and when people – even people he trusts – do give him compliments in that respect (just as with most aspects of his life) he struggles to believe them as genuine. He’ll either joke and shrug it off, or try to ignore anything was said at all. Jason also naturally carries himself in a way that encourages people not to look at him, which is a habit he first developed as a street kid as a defence to ward off the wrong kinds of attention from him. Then as a vigilante, a “Don’t fuck with me” aura more than comes in handy, and because of this many people don’t really take the time to look at him and notice his appearance because their first impression is, “This guy is trouble and I should stay out of his way.” unless Jason is making an effort not to come across that way, such as when he’s trying to calm women and kids he’s saved. The only people who ever see him genuinely relaxed and smiling are his family and friends, of which he has few.

All of which combines as an explanation for why, even though good looking, Jason doesn’t get the same kind of attention for it as say, someone like Dick does. As fact he’s both jealous of and relieved about, because he’s a contrary person that way.

Basically, in conclusion, Jason is a very good looking birb who needs to learn to love himself more. I think we can all agree on that XD

#asks #finalfenrirsoldier #jason todd

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