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thiswaycomessomethingwicked · 4 years

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for the quiet night in ask: how did Grima make his way into your heart? And why do you ship him with Eomer? I've been meaning to inquire about this for long hehe (also I love your theme! think this is the first time I see it)

I am so sorry, you’re getting an ESSAY.

I’ve been wanting to talk about my Grima feels FOR SO LONG.

HE SNAKED HIS WAY INTO MY HEART.

Um, tl;dr I have a soft spot for the bad guys who clearly have a complicated history with those they are opposing and I think Eomer/Grima have a fun opposites-attract dynamic and I love a good redemption story.

I don’t touch on literacy and Grima in this because that’s strictly the films and it’s worthy of it’s own post entirely.

I’m trying to think best how to break this all out, because it gets a bit long and rambly. I’m using both book and films for this, as a note. Since I tend to mash up different aspects of those Grima’s in my head, give the guy some eyebrows, and call it a day.

So, first off, his history. Now, we don’t really have anything to go on in canon here. All we know, in both book and film, is that Grima “was once a man of Rohan” (ROTK). In the book, Gandalf says: “This here, is a snake. To slay it [Grima] would be just. But it was not always as it is now. Once it was a man, and it did you service in its fashion.”

Grima evidently has served Rohan for some years at this point. We know that Theoden’s enchantment/possession began three years prior to TTT. In the books there is no possession. Theoden’s enchantment relies on the powers of words and their suggestions. Something Tolkien was well aware of carrying great weight and import in Anglo-Saxon culture. You tell a man he is old and infirm, he will become old and infirm.

I understand why Jackson went the possession route - explaining Anglo-Saxon engagement with galdorcraeft/witchcraft and the power of words etc. and how that influenced the development of Rohan in the span of like 7 minutes of screen time wasn’t happening. Possession works for the same purpose, but in a language the modern audience is familiar with - especially in visual mediums. Grima is circa 40 when TTT happens, same age as Boromir for reference. So, let’s say he’s been an advisor for 10/12 years at this point. He has therefore been a good servant of the king longer than he’s been a traitor.

Hence, the outreach. And, in Brad Dourif’s wonderful acting, Grima’s clear desire to go home to his king. In the book it’s more subtle. Grima chucks the palantir out the window at Orthanc and it’s stated that he wasn’t sure who he was aiming for, Saruman or Gandalf, because he couldn’t decide who he hated more.

Honestly? Legit. I would also hate the guy who reduced me to “it” pronouns. But maybe that’s my gender identity stuff playing up ;)

(Granted, in the full quote Gandalf reverts back to “he”, for context. And I’ve said this before, in another post, that it makes sense for Gandalf and as a writer, I agree with Tolkien’s decisions for that scene.)

Now, for some speculation. Not that I haven’t spilled a tonne already. MORE SPECULATION. This time bringing you long term effects of bullying and never having loving relationships modelled for you! Because LOTR, at the end of the day, is all about trauma and how maybe not to deal with it.

So - motives.

We know Saruman’s motives. Indeed, he tells them to us in FOTRK: “[to] have power, power to order all things as we will, for that good which only the Wise can see” and to achieve “the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends.”

Great. Super straight forward. And from the man’s own mouth.

Grima’s though, always come to us second hand. In the books it’s Gandalf telling us (Gandalf can mind read, so yes, maybe he is accurate). In the films, it’s Eomer guestimating.

But Grima never actually tells us, himself, what his motives are.

(a quick aside: if some dude is shoving me up against a pole and threatening me, and I hear someone walking by, of course I’m going to look over at them and it by no means indicates my desire to shag that person. Now, of course, we know from other scenes this is the case. I’m just saying. It’s natural to look over at the person walking by while you’re being jumped by the Third Marshal of the Mark who is twice your size. anyway.)

So what are his driving forces for treason? What made him go to this point of no return then keep going even when people offered him a way back.

It is important to note that his treason required him to forswear his oath to his liege lord. I don’t know how to convey what a big deal that would have been, in modern terms. But it would have been huge. Forswearing/reneging on oaths was a massive cultural taboo in Anglo-saxon [AS] England (and general, early medieval Europe).

And, as Rohan is based on AS England (I forget if Tolkien was cagey about this. He was sometimes a dumb shit and coy about things so was like “noooo it’s not STRICTLY AS England….but it’s clearly AS England with more horses and a light dusting of vikings and the Danelaw”), we can assume it carried as much weight for them as it did for the historical people.

(Indeed, it’s implied, if not directly stated, in the text what a big deal oath breaking is. Don’t say “oath breaking” too loud or the Silmarillion fandom will come out of the woodwork)

The big takeaway: BIG DEAL TO FORSWEAR YOUR OATH.

And he did it! Which is why I don’t buy the “it was because of Eowyn and like some nice jewels.” You don’t betray your country, you don’t forswear your oath to your king, simply because you’re hot on the king’s niece and Saruman might give you a raise.

And, as a liege man to Theoden, he was part of Theoden’s household so would have eaten, worked with, lived with everyone else in the household (Eomer, until he becomes Third Marshal; Eowyn; Hama; Theoden’s guards etc.)

So, you live with these people, eat with them, drink with them, spend all your time with them, for circa 10 years then you do a bunk and betray them? Something happened. I suspect it was years and years of things happening.

Overall, I think it to be a combination of things. As is usually the case for these sorts of crimes. In this case, a nice mix of fear, desperation, greed, resentment, anger and desire.

Fear/Desperation: So, to Grima’s mind the world is ending. Why wouldn’t he think this? Hell, even the Wisest and the Fairest (i.e. wizards & elves) think it’s ending. Why wouldn’t this poor bloke from some small country nearby to Mordor not think it an existential threat to an unimaginable degree?

Grima is sat here in Rohan looking at Mordor going "oh fuck" then who are the leaders left? Denethor (slightly bonkers) and Theoden (past his prime and lacklustre, like his father and grandfather).

This is not a man with a strong moral fiber. Or...any moral fiber, let’s be real. He does not have the fortitude to stick it out through hopeless situations. And it would have been hopeless to his eyes. And those around him (see: Eomer’s do not trust to hope… Sure Saruman was a problem, but he wasn’t just talking about the white wizard).

Gandalf’s plan, which none of these people were ever wholly aware of, was a goddamn Hail Mary pass and it worked. Barely, but it did. NO ONE had reason to believe it would, though. And those are people in the know. Not someone like Grima who has no fucking clue what Gandalf et al is up to. He sees Gandalf then like … Nazgul torture him on the planes of Rohan (Unfinished Tales). He sees Gandalf then bad things happen.

Lathspell indeed.

Greed & Desire: I don’t think I need to go into these ones too much. They’re pretty self explanatory. Grima and Black Phillip hung out and the goat asked Grima if he wanted to live deliciously and Grima, like any normal person, said: um, yes please? Also, Eowyn was around being badass, beautiful and untouchable.

Resentment/Anger: Alright, more probing in the dark. I suspect, for one reason or another (and these reasons would vary depending if you’re looking at books or movies), he was someone who was always treated as other/differently, teased, picked on, isolated, overlooked, doesn’t measure up to Rohan’s military ideal of masculinity. All of which creates an underlying resentment issue.

And nothing festers quite like resentment.

On top of that, I also suspect he was always told he was a snake/untrustworthy/not worthy etc. and if you're told something enough, and you don't have anything or anyone else telling you the opposite, there is a strong chance you become that thing.

It's a chicken and egg: the face you wear to the world tells the world how to treat you; the world tells you what you are and that is how you shape your face.

THEN you add in Saruman. Who is clearly, in the text, abusive. Which, if there were any inferiority/bullied etc. issues that are informing Grima’s actions, Saruman is just going to amplify it.

“You are a traitor because you’re a snake, and you’re a snake because you’re spineless, weak, nothing more than a creature that crawls on its stomach on the ground. Snakes are bad, evil things. Which is all you’ve ever been. Barely deserving of the good treatment I give you etc.” <-- all of which is basically a summary of what Saruman has been saying to him for a few years at this point (in the book, it’s only tangentially implied in the movies).

So Grima sort of morphed himself into what he believed himself to be, fuelled by that perversity resentment causes: Oh you think I’m a snake? I’ll be the best goddamn most poisonous snake you ever did see. Just watch me.

He is trapped in this situation. A hutch to trammel some wild thing in.

Which leads me to an interesting point that I think gets lost sometimes: Narratively, he and Eowyn are similar in what they are experiencing. Isolation, being overlooked, misunderstood/misrepresented, don't fit into societal roles and expectations etc. They just go in very different directions in how they respond to it.

I think that's why, in the film, it was smart to have her give pause and listen to him because what he's saying resonates. He is, in some ways, speaking as much for himself as her. But then, of course, he's also just trying to shit disturb and make mischief so of course, at the end of the day, any sympathy he is attempting to convey is laced with poison.

I do wonder, too, if he's the first person to see her fear and her frustrations and acknowledges them out loud. Which is powerful. To have someone see you. Damn shame it's Grima. Still, Eowyn (in the film) paused and listened for a reason.

A brief aside on my idle, ill founded thoughts on gender and Rohan:

One of the reasons I think Eowyn and Grima go in diverging directions, is that Eowyn is performing masculinity, in her society's accepted interpretation of it. Masculinity, in Middle Earth, is clearly the norm. And in Rohan, it’s a very particular iteration of military-focused masculinity that is idealized (you can bet, men who killed like 10 orcs were awarded places in court above Grima who served as advisor for like ten years but hasn’t killed an orc ever).

Eowyn’s desire to live/perform this more masculine ideal caters to the subconscious thing of “Masculinity is Natural Neutral Ideal” so of course you would want to be more like A Man. Whereas Grima is the opposite, not performing masculinity according to Rohan's accepted view of it.

And gods, in Anglo-Saxon culture (therefore, Rohan’s, most likely. I see no evidence to the contrary) is that a difficult position to find yourself in. Back in AS England, being called argr, unmanly, or to be accused of ergri, unmanliness, was one of the worst insults you could throw at a man (indeed, some laws said you could kill a man in retaliation for calling you such things). I would bet my shirt that people used such insults about Grima in this world. Which is all kinds of messed up.

Now, my interest in him is my general love for a good redemption arc for the most hopeless of characters. It’s why I struggle to call Boromir’s arc, when he’s written as living, a redemption arc. Because I don’t know he has much to redeem himself for. In his own mind, sure, yes, but externally? Not in my view, at least. He has things he’s done wrong and needs to make amends for. But that’s different from redemption.

Grima, on the other hand, is one whose walk-back from evil would be a full on redemption arc. And I like it because he’s not nice, he’s not pleasant. He will never be nice or pleasant or cheerful. But learning how to love and be a good person doesn’t require niceness.

Saruman could be plenty nice. Sauron could be plenty nice. Look what they turned out to be.

And in my writing, I do hope I’m treading that line between creating an understanding of who Grima is without Kylo-Ren-ing him. Or, woobiefying him, as the old parlance was. That’s the line I’m really aiming for. I want people to not hate him. I want them to understand him. Oh, still condemn him, still judge him, disagree with him, acknowledge and know he did bad things and isn’t a nice person. But the end game is to add some understanding and nuance.

Shades of grey.

Also I’m a sucker for challenging redemptions.

Why Eomer/Grima?

Because I am an agent of chaos.

More seriously, I was never overly taken with the Grima/Eowyn approach, personally, which is obviously popular (um...within the Grima world), and closer to canon. There are some beautifully written fics and art out there for the two of them, so if you’re into that. The creators in that nook of fandom are top notch.

I always liked the drastic opposite of Grima and Eomer. As I noted above, Grima and Eowyn are two sides of the same coin. Both bitter and resentful and trapped. And that’s a lot of fun to play with, and i get it. But for me, I love a good strong contrast of personalities in my pairings. (If that uh … isn’t readily apparent.)

I think both Eomer and Grima would have a lot to teach each other and in some really interesting ways that neither would expect. I can see both getting under each other’s skin in that way where you’re sort of always thinking about them.

Grima is also someone who has had very little love in his life (I suspect he wants it, he just doesn’t know how to give or receive it). Eomer is someone who has lost a lot of people (parents, quasi-uncle for a few years there. I think it’s why he’s so controlling over Eowyn. Didn’t want to lose her). And I think there’s something in there where they could help each other grow. But I’m a sucker for some beauty to be there, in the end. Some hope.

Mostly, though, I think it boils down to their dynamic and the angst potential. Eomer is this brash, forthright, fiery third marshal of the mark who may or may not think things through. Big of heart, dumb of ass. Then there’s Grima who is quiet and reserved, cynical, critical, always has a plan or five, gets by via his wits etc. Lots of fun potential there.

#LOTR #lord of the rings #the lord of the rings #grima wormtongue #rohan #eorlingas #LOTR meta #ask #reply #eomer

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the-seas-song · 6 years

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Tolkien Gen Week Day 4

DAY FOUR: solo Tolkien’s characters must spend time on their own! What does your favorite character do by themself? What’s a favorite hobby or a struggle they went through on their own? This is a day to explore what happens when only one character is around.

I know this is late, but unfortunately work and real life intervened. Fortunately, I had today off!

For this prompt I want to talk about my top two favorite characters, Arwen and Kili.

Arwen. Oh, Arwen! Where do I begin? She's the reason I became a Tolkien fan. I watched the films before reading the books, and her scene with Elrond in RotK was the defining moment for me. The world shifted, and I was fundamentally moved.

“I looked into your future and I saw death.”

“But there is also life!”

“Some things are certain. If I leave him now, I will regret it forever.”

“This was my choice. Ada, by your will or not, there is no ship now that can bear me hence.”

The sheer amount of inner strength Arwen has will always blow me away and render me speechless. Because Arwen's choice isn't really about Aragorn, even though it is because of Aragorn. Arwen chooses to truly live a full life for a short time, over existing for her naturally long lifespan. She chooses to live for less than one elven-year (144 years of the sun), because she knows that she will be fully fulfilled and that no other path could bring her greater joy.

Just... think of everyone you know. How many people do you know who could make that choice? Who could choose to go out into the world and live every day to the fullest, even though they know they will soon die because of it?

Because this renders me speechless, I want to quote one of my favorite fanfictions, The Light Returned by Ellynn. It is from Elrond's pov:

And then I chanced upon this one picture – I could not remember whether I had seen it earlier that day – but it immediately captured my attention. Even if I hadn't seen the signature, I could have told it had been drawn by Lalaith, Eldarion's daughter. She was exceptionally gifted. Her pictures were almost alive; they had their own voice and soul. This particular one depicted almost the entire family – Arwen, Aragorn, their children and most of their grandchildren. Looking at it, I could smell the spring grass of the Pelennor fields, hear the sound of children's laughter, feel the mild, warm breeze. I blinked, and the vision was still there. I was there, with them; they were here, with me. But most of all I was captured by Arwen's face. She was smiling and looking straight towards Lalaith who had been drawing the picture; due to some magic, or to the skill of the artist, her gaze came out of the picture and reached me, reached the depth of my heart. I have never seen such serenity and happiness within anyone; the serenity of a fulfilled life. Her eyes were full of warmth and love for Aragorn, for their children and grandchildren...

...and for me. For her parents. I kept on staring at the picture and read everything from her gaze. A moment later I took another picture, and another, and many more, and looked them over. And over. But with different eyes than before, now unaffected by self-pity and pain. No, the sorrow did not vanish, but now I really saw. In each picture, whether crafted with a supreme skill of the artist Lalaith or with unskillful strokes of a child which Arwen encouraged to draw for the very first time, my daughter had that same expression – the expression of utter happiness and fulfillment. The emotions were the same, and they were always present.

How stupid I was not to see it right away! I must have been blinded by my pain; it must be that the parental selfishness did not want to retreat. I believe Celebrian understood it straight away; she was wiser than I was. But now I saw things differently as well. If there had ever been any doubt in my mind that this had not been the best path for her, all doubts had now vanished without a trace. Yes, I have been hoping that fate would take her down a different path; yes, I wished she had chosen one of our folk. But this was her path, there was no other which would have brought her a greater joy. Every parent wants what is best for his child, and she had the best. Even if the loss of immortality was the price to be paid. Sometimes even that which seems like the highest price is but a pittance compared to the happiness gained.

My daughter died. We will not meet in this world, for as long as Arda does not change. The pain was still there. But now I look at her life – blessed more than a person could ever wish for – and I cannot but thank Eru for granting her such a wonderful family and a life full of love. Thank you, my daughter, for making it possible for your family to become a part of my life forever, although I thought I had lost everything that day many years ago, when I left Middle-earth for good.

The pain is still there, but a smile appears through the tears; the pain is no longer the only thing I feel, now there is joy as well. For her gift is the greatest one I have ever received, a gift of boundless love which triumphs even over the greatest sorrow. It is still dark outside. But I am no longer in the darkness. The light returned.

And Arwen's kindness! During all the chaos after her wedding, Arwen picks up on the fact that Frodo's wounds have not really healed. No one else has noticed this – only her. So what does she do? She goes to Gandalf and, using her own choice of mortality as leverage, argues that Frodo should be able to sail in her stead so he can find healing. This gets approved, and when she tells Frodo, she gives him another gift! A gem imbued with healing power. Because getting permission for him to sail wasn't good enough for her – it wouldn't stop his current pain. So, she imbues a gem with healing power. It is not a permanent fix, only a temporary relief. But it is enough for now, for she has already arranged for him to take the permanent fix, if he wishes it. (This is, of course, reflected in the films at the Ford. Arwen doesn't even know Frodo; and yet she is crying for him, pleading with him to live, and doing a healing incantation.)

(For evidence of what I've just said, see my Arwen essay)

Kind and brave, Arwen embodies the same lessons of another heroine – Cinderella. For, “We must simply have courage, and be kind, mustn't we?”

I will always love and strive to be like these two amazing beings.

~*~

Kili is my second favorite character for very different reasons. Whereas Arwen is the ideal I love and strive for, Kili is the character I fundamentally relate to.

Overall, we have the same exact personality. There is something called the Myers–Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), which is a personality type theory. Unlike most personality theories, though, MBTI focuses on the cognitive functioning of your brain, and not individual personality traits. There are sixteen different types, and Kili is an ENFP (see here for my typing of him).

Kili has a self-esteem problem. It's not obvious to most people, but he and I have the same little tells, because our brains function the same way.

(for evidence of what I'm about to say, see my Fili and Kili essay)

Dwarven culture has a correlation to some of our world's most sexist cultures. Dwarf women are not named on family trees. They join their husband's family. They do not go outside, “save at direst need”; and dress like men when they have do so. They do not go to war, or partake in dwarven crafts. They live in “deep bowers and halls.” Dwarves only fall in love once, and both male and female dwarves are “jealous” of their spouses and spousal rights. Tolkien states that Fili and Kili were never Thorin's heirs (the filmmakers changed this), and Dain always was. He also states that the “sentiment of affection for sister's children” is the least strong amongst dwarves, out of all of the Free Peoples. It is the mother's job to raise the children, and children should be treated with “apparent harshness” “to ensure that they shall grow up tough, hardy, unyielding”. Vengeance is very important.

Dwarven culture also continues the glorification of masculinity and the damnation of femininity into their jobs. The beloved dwarven crafts are stonework, mining and crafting, and weaponry. In their cultural relationship with humans and hobbits, the dwarves exchange their work for food. However, dependency on them for food does not equate to perceived worthiness. According to Thorin, hobbits “were just food-growers who happened to work the fields on either side of the Dwarves' ancestral road to the Mountains.” Elves are, of course, culturally damned as evil.

So we have an exceptionally hypermasculine culture that exalts fighting, vengeance, and crafts of stonework, mining and crafting, and weaponry; and also derides femininity. They are also the only culture that exalts secrecy and prejudice in it’s theory (reality is a whole different matter, because there are prejudiced people of all races).

Thorin got his people sanctuary and acceptance in Ered Luin. He remained a dwarf lord in title, because he is still technically the heir to the most powerful dwarven line. However, he had no actual standing in Ered Luin. This is the situation Fili and Kili were born into. Born and raised in Ered Luin, they were royalty in title but not in action. However, Thorin raised them as if they were royalty in action.

(Also, since Balin and Dwalin speak as if it has been a while since they've seen each other, Balin is a politician and Dwalin is a hardened warrior, and Kili refers to Dwalin with a title (“Mister Dwalin”), I assume/headcanon that Fili and Kili don't know Dwalin very well because he is a traveling warrior.)

We see several examples of this paradox. There are several similarities and signs of status in their clothing, and all three have their own personal emblem. Fili and Kili would have spent their early years with Dis in the isolated living quarters and domestic halls. They are innocent. When he was home, Thorin raised them on stories of Erebor's glory while keeping from them the painful and horrific details (as we see, they don't know the details of the Battle of Azanulbizar – they would have only known that Thror, Frerin, and many of their people died; and that Thrain disappeared). However, because of dwarven culture and his own issues, Thorin is stern and not overtly affectionate. Fili and Kili had lessons and were raised to be warriors, like any good dwarven prince. They are skilled and lethal fighters, and have traveled as guards for merchant caravans (though it is highly unlikely they were the only guards, two isn't really an escort), but they have never been in a battle or war. They do not remember losing anyone close to them to orcs – they find Bilbo's fear funny, as only lethal innocents would; not understanding the severity and pain of an orc attack. Nor have they had much interaction with people of other races. While they have traveled as guards, we know that Kili (and thus likely Fili) has never seen an elf before; and before Bilbo, the only place they could have met any hobbits is in Bree. Their interactions with humans (and hobbits, if they had any) would have been very limited and strictly related to business.

Even though Fili and Kili are both extremely talented, they have two very different attitudes towards fighting. Fili has loads of weapons; lovingly pulling them out at Bilbo's house, and hating the elves for taking them. Kili has far less, as well as different, weapons than Fili, and he never appears emotionally invested in fighting – he explores and complements Bilbo's house while Fili is lovingly taking out his weapons. In Mirkwood, Kili doesn't just ignore the disappearance of his weapons; he starts fancying Tauriel because of her impressive skill when she saved his life, and smiles softly after her retort. According to his culture, she has just emasculated him at least twice; and his reaction is not to get angry, but to fall in love with her. He is perfectly comfortable with being the more feminine one in their relationship.

We see from the very beginning that Kili is odd for a dwarf. He is very different from any other dwarf we ever meet. He doesn't have that internal sense of dwarven pride. He is very open-minded, and exemplifies the saying, “A stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet.” He is genuinely curious and admiring of Bilbo and his house. Kili also defends him and shows faith in him by betting on him. Though raised on the evilness of elves, Kili doesn't have any prejudice or dislike for them. He sees Tauriel as a breathtaking and awe-inspiring being far above him while never showing the slightest hint of jealousy or possessiveness towards her, and has thought about the nature of nature; thus contradicting everything dwarven culture believes in. He follows his heart and morals no matter what. He is resilient and light-hearted, even though he is a cultural anomaly.

At the beginning of the Quest, Kili doesn't understand the prejudices of his culture, but he lacks the personal experiences needed to challenge them. By the time Kili gets to Erebor, he has the personal experiences needed to speak up. He cannot stand silent in the face of injustices.

Because this is the thing about me and Kili – we don't consciously choose to be open-minded or strong willed. I promise that we're not trying to be defiant or disrespectful. Our brains are just cognitively wired to never accept anything at face value and see a multitude of alternatives. That insatiable curiosity drives us to ask endless questions and seek out new experiences. It's (usually) not recklessness, because we do think and care. We're just wired to engage. We have very strong internal senses of self and morality, and we dance to the beat of our own drum. We have never been able to wrap our minds around statements like 'because I said so' or 'because it is'. This is especially true when it comes to prejudices, like the dwarves' against hobbits and elves. Why are we good and they bad? Kili genuinely can't comprehend it.

Added to that, Kili and I both seemingly wear our hearts on our sleeves; being outgoing, lighthearted, fun-loving, romantic dreamers. But the low self-esteem is there. We will happily gush for hours, but if you ask us to share our pain, we will immediately clam up. Red alert, deny! deny! deny! Also, we may get angry for a moment, but we have a very hard time holding grudges (which dwarven culture exalts).

Kili shows this several times – after Thorin's rebuke about the orc joke Kili bows his head and doesn't look up when Balin starts speaking; after being completely humiliated in front of the entire Company he just says “funny” and looks down (being hurt and vulnerable instead of getting angry and lashing out), and immediately joins in the food fight; he immediately lightens the conversation after telling Tauriel about his promise to his mother; he has his vulnerable and pained “remote and far away” line; he continues to deny and play down his injury even after Thorin tells him he doesn't get to continue on the quest; he doesn't want Fili to defend him to Thorin but drop it and go with the others; and he makes his dazed speech about Tauriel, wondering if it's even possible that she might have loved his lowly self.

Not only is his personality more elven than dwarven (he isn’t emotionally invested in fighting, one of his two main weapons is a bow, and he ponders the nature of nature), he is also seen as ugly and very 'elf-like' physically - he only has stubble, is the least deep-chested (even Ori has more of a barrel chest and waist), is the second slimmest (only Ori is slimmer), and is on the taller side. As the icing on the cake, he's not even attracted to dwarven beauty standards.

So, Kili has a lot of reasons to have low self-esteem. Here are some quotes from other ENFP's:

My experience is that most people perceive me to be excitable, bubbly, and as someone who wears his heart on his sleeve, but that’s just the shiny surface of the person I am. The truth is, my external behavior seeks to create a harmonious, positive vibe within my groups (Ne+Fi) in order to make a better environment for myself & others; as a charismatic extrovert, I know that wearing all my negative emotions on my sleeve would drain everyone around me, so instead, I rely on my Ne & Te to guide the conversation to topics that help me explore my inner emotional world (Fi). (source)

You know you're an ENFP when you love expressing your happiness and excitement about everything in life, but rarely display negative feelings. There's a misconception that we are always happy people, but we meet the other end of the extreme as well. We just don't feel the need to share that side of our emotions. (source)

A growing ENFP is an increasingly sensitive person who spends more and more time concerned with private matters of the heart. Whereas the public ENFP is active, entertaining, clever, and playful, the private one can be worried, fearful, and morose. Accepting both sides of their personality is essential to fully understanding them. (source)

Though this type gives off a light-hearted, fun-loving air, they actually take life quite seriously. ENFPs feel their lows just as intensely as they feel their highs – they just aren’t as comfortable expressing negative emotion as they are positive. (source)

We don’t actually wear our hearts on our sleeves. Shocking, I know! Being highly emotional, loud little roller coasters you’d think it’d be easy to get to know us but nope. We’re the weirdest mix of super private and an open book that you’ll ever meet. (source)

Also:

People underestimating your intelligence because you lead with the fun, upbeat parts of your personality. [cut] Others being surprised that you hold such strong opinions and beliefs, despite your easy-going nature. (source)

These deeply held values of the ENFP is something that most people do not perceive at first. ENFPs can appear casual, flexible and easy-going for most things in life but when they feel their values are being compromised, they will stand resolute and even stubborn, surprising even their closest co-workers. (source)

None of this means we're faking the light-heartedness – something inside us, no matter how depressed we might get, refuses to stop having hope and seeing good in the world. We literally can't hold grudges. Our annoying brains question and challenge ourselves just as much, or even more, than they do others.

There was one point in my life when I was so depressed I was close to becoming suicidal, and (except for my mom) the people I confided in couldn't believe it. How could I be depressed and outgoing, lighthearted, with a deep belief in the spiritual goodness of the universe? I honestly don't know – I'm just that kind of walking paradox. So is Kili.

P.S. There is a reason most Kili fans call him a puppy. When I say lighthearted and outgoing, I mean we're very silly and probably seen as insane by the general public. There's no one in my real life I can be completely silly and dorky with, but I can through Kili! (Weird People by Little Mix is our anthem)

#Arwen #Kili #tolkiengenweek #Mine

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