#which makes me think how reliable he is as a narrator | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

umbrify · 10 months

Note

hello i saw u tagged jimmy solidarity on that "free my man he did none of that. he did a bunch of other shit though" post and i am incredibly compelled by the implications here. please may i have an essay on the subject

YOU MAY.

Okay so we’re gonna be specifically talking about Empires SMP Season 2 Jimmy (henceforth, Jimmy,) and the way he conducts himself, how those actions reflect on him, versus how he sees himself (and how the fandom sees him in turn). Welcome to my Ted Talk.

The most important thing to understand about Jimmy is that he lies. He lies about everything, and convinces himself that his lie is true to the point where he really thinks it is. Take, for example, a moment in Sausage’s episode 41 [full exchange from 9:10 - 19:37] where Jimmy kills Sausage, and then when Sausage, followed by fWhip, return to Tumble Town to discuss the murder, Jimmy blatantly lies about the altercation to fWhip, claiming “[Sausage] came over, and he assaulted me, fWhip!” Jimmy insists that it was Sausage who physically started it, despite that being completely untrue. Jimmy then goes on to deny having killed Sausage Sausage at all, sounding affronted at the idea and demanding to see the player head that drops on death. fWhip asks how many levels Sausage has, which is none, and Jimmy claims that Sausage must have used all his experience. Jimmy denies and lies, and when fWhip goes looking for Sausage’s things, finding them in Jimmy’s storage, Jimmy acts shocked, saying “I think I’m being set up! […] I’m gonna leave this conversation, you do what you gotta do, but I don’t think I’m the bad guy here.” As if Jimmy didn’t explicitly kill Sausage moments ago!! As if it isn’t his fault!!!

And the problem here, the core problem, is that so many people just… believe him. They take Jimmy’s words at face value and assume that he’s always a reliable narrator in his own stories, despite the fact that it couldn’t be further from the case. The issue is less that people assign New and Different problems to Jimmy, more that they strip him of any wrongdoing at all, making him out to be some sad little pathetic wet cat who didn’t deserve it. And— don’t get me wrong, he is extremely sad, but he also did it to himself.

I think one of the more interesting ways to illustrate this, is to talk about the way Jimmy perceives himself. From the start of the season, he always insists on being called “The Sheriff.” He’s not Jimmy, he’s The Sheriff, and throughout the season, he can be seen constantly insisting upon and chasing after that title. He wants respect— or, his version of respect. What he really wants is a yes man. This difference can very clearly be seen in the way he treats the two deputies he had throughout the season.

When fWhip was the deputy, it’s because he wanted to be. He sought Jimmy out because he wanted to be Jimmy’s right hand man, and Jimmy let him. fWhip consistently referred to Jimmy as The Sheriff, upholding Jimmy’s version of the laws as best he could. And, there really is something to be said about the fact that fWhip, as a goblin, inherently didn’t understand the concept of arbitrary laws, or that sort of morality at all, and was only one, upholding it because he cared about Jimmy, but two, treating the laws as Jimmy treated them— i.e, making a shrine for that which Jimmy made a church for, but that’s a whole separate essay that I want to write at some point. Either way, he was good to Jimmy, though their time together was short. He made Jimmy a home away from home in Gobland [fWhip episode 8 timestamp 20:28] and helped Jimmy win the court trial by serving as his lawyer in the case against Joel [Trial best seen in Jimmy’s episode 10 starts at 3:03]. After fWhip was fired, he went around Tumble Town noting down a bunch of “laws” that Jimmy was breaking. I wrote a whole post about this set of interactions already [here] but the short version is this: In fWhip’s episode 12 [5:54], he goes around and marks down all the laws that he’s saying Jimmy is breaking around Tumble Town. […] Of the seven instances that fWhip writes down, SIX of them almost directly relate to Jimmy not taking good care of himself or his empire. To me, it almost reads more like he cares about Jimmy, and is worried about him.

All this to say, that fWhip didn’t Respect The Sheriff as much as he Cared About Jimmy. And that’s an important distinction— he cared about Jimmy, the person. He had this whole veneer of respecting the laws— laws that he didn’t really understand— because he cared about Jimmy. And Jimmy fired him for a prank— one that wasn’t specifically targeted or malicious— because he saw that as Disrespecting The Sheriff. He didn’t want someone who Cared About Jimmy, he wanted someone who Respected The Sheriff. And fWhip wasn’t that.

Enter Scar.

During the Hermitcraft crossover, Scar started gunning for the position as deputy because he wanted the shiny deputy badge. That was it, that was the reason, and Scar acted accordingly. Everything was about acting like he Respected The Sheriff, even when he was blatantly breaking one of the core laws, wearing another player’s hat— both the sheriff hat [Jimmy episode 19 4:07] as well as trading away a sheriff hat, and being seen wearing one of Scott’s Chromia hats [Jimmy episode 22 14:27]. In this episode, Scar backhandedly compliments Jimmy, “oh, you’re just a… cute big guy, aren’t you?” to which Jimmy seems uncertain, asking “I’m real big, right?” to which Scar says he is. Jimmy then asks him about the Chromia hat Scar wears, and Scar tells him that he traded one of the sheriff hats to Scott. Jimmy gets upset at Scar, but before he can get properly mad, Scar distracts him by showing off a new section of Tumble Town that he made. Scar wears the mask of respect for just long enough to get the badge. When Jimmy gives him the badge, he says he has something else that he wants to give Scar as well. “I have found something real special for you, real special.” Scar says “I already got something special, this badge.” Jimmy says “you mean our friendship?” Which Scar dubiously agrees to. This is the last time Jimmy sees Scar before the hermits leave— Scar got what he wanted, and that was all. And yet, Jimmy hired him, because Scar put on the show. Scar was his yes man, Scar Respected The Sheriff, even if he didn’t Care About Jimmy.

He does it to himself, Jimmy does. He pushes away anyone that tries to care about him as a person, and surrounds himself with people that will be his yes men, his little sidekicks, anyone that holds the sheriff title in high regard. It’s why he takes so well to the Old Sheriff, who treats the sheriff title with the same reverence that he does, respecting the title of sheriff without actually respecting Jimmy much at all.

The thing about Jimmy is that he causes his own problems, and they’re all his fault. Yes he is crushingly lonely, and filled with self hatred, but he actively surrounds himself with it. It’s not that people are just inherently mean to him, he is almost asking them to be, by pushing away anyone that seems to care about him as a person.

I think, as my final note here, I wanna bring up a moment from Jimmy’s finale, episode 38. He and the Old sheriff, as they’re making their way to the Nether portal, discuss how fWhip only ever referred to himself as goblin fWhip, never as king. Jimmy says “I don’t think he ever held himself to the regard of being a king, and that— d’you know what? That sucks. He was my deputy for a while, he didn’t really think much of himself, I’m not gonna lie” [9:19]. I just find it interesting, that Jimmy says that it sucks how fWhip never called himself king— a title ostensibly higher than sheriff— and that fWhip was only a deputy. As if he thinks that fWhip could’ve been king, perhaps was worthy of the title, and just never took it— that he sees the taking of a title such as that to be so important, when for fWhip, it never was. I dunno, I just think there’s something to that. I think it says something about Jimmy and about the importance he places on titles that don’t really matter.

Jimmy ran away, in the end. He and the Old Sheriff ran far away from everything they ever knew. fWhip stayed, choosing to live out his days happily in the empire he helped to found. fWhip never took the title of king. Jimmy thinks he should’ve.

Isn’t that something?

#umbrify answers #ilexdiapason #thank you so much for this ask. i spent 3 hours drafting this response #I love empires. btw.#empires smp #jimmy solidarity #empires jimmy

255 notes · View notes

dwreader · 3 months

Text

Actual incidents in the book that are in dispute btwn Louis and Lestat since you fuckers can't seem to read:

-Lestat wanted Louis for his plantation vs. he is in fact already rich: not really relevant to the show since show Lestat is flaunting the fact that he's extremely wealthy from the start. Louis is not under any illusion that this guy is after his wealth, HE moves into Lestat's house in fact and accepts Lestat's money/gifts/etc. Lestat is a captial p PROVIDER. He said do NOT take that away from me and it's one thing he's 100% right about.

-A cold loveless relationship depicted in IWTV vs. a more loving though still troubled "marriage" according to TVL: again, more or less moot for the show since season 1 depicts Lestat's version of their relationship more so than Louis's. They are clearly in a romantic relationship, had some good times (that were maybe glossed over quickly by Louis but are still clearly depicted through Claudia's diaries) and yet even in TVL, Lestat agrees that Louis's account was an accurate representation of the atomsphere of their decades together and that he deserved all the punishment he got.

-Lestat torturing + killing people for fun according to Louis vs. Lestat's claim that he only killed people who were "bad" and deserved it: kind of already played out on the show when Louis suggests the idea in 1x03, but ultimately it doesn't significantly alter our perception of Lestat cause does anyone actually care that prostitutes stole money from their clients and think that's a valid reason to torture and kill them? Hope not! It's just a good insight into Lestat's mind and how he justifies killing.

-The events after Lestat's murder and Paris: these parts we have to take from Lestat's POV simply because Louis is unaware of things happening when he's not present. Obviously will be a major part of Season 2.

-The scene at the end of IWTV happening or not: the most direct contradiction between the two accounts but this has not happened yet on the show so it has no bearing on anything in season 1.

As you can see, most of these contradictions involve Louis's omissions in IWTV rather than "made up" events. Save for the final scene in NOLA that doesn't actually mean anything to season 1, absolutely nothing about Louis's depiction of events in IWTV is really disputed by Lestat. Louis's turning, Claudia's turning, the "atomsphere" under which they lived leading up to Lestat's murder and Lestat's murder itself are all indisputable. Lestat is revealing more of his motivations and giving us further vampire context/knowledge that Louis didn't have (because Lestat kept it from him btw and he forgives Louis his errors because he knew it was out of enforced ignorance), but that only slightly changes our perception of his actions. It does not throw them into the trash.

It's also very clear that Season 1 is already an amalgamation of the two versions. If they were taking IWTV literally, the show wouldn't even be a romance and it clearly is. It uses Claudia's diaries (a device revealed only much later in the books) to fill in some scenes that Louis may not have been present for like the kidanpping on the train but the two perspectives make the story kind of bulletproof? The reliability or lack thereof of Louis as a narrator is made possible by Claudia's diary being there as a secondary source and when he's at his most unreliable, it's the diary that provides the contradictions. WE see something's off when the diary's pages are excised. BUT you really don't have any basis in the books for a major lifechanging event like episode 5 to be retconned, let alone an event with two people as sources and involved a prolonged recovery period that's also described in painstaking detail by said two people. Like this woman was a lazy writer most of the time but even SHE wouldn't do that cause its like a basic writing tenant not to feed your reader horseshit??

#iwtv #interview with the vampire #lestat being more self-aware than his fans.. wild #anyways fuck off now

122 notes · View notes

saintone · 10 months

Text

So, recently, I received the last book of SVSSS saga, and I instantly jumped to read, once again, Shen Jiu’s story chapter. And, oh boy. I’ve got things to say.

Spoiler’s ahead!!!!

Something I notice about MXTX’s writing is that, in a very subtle manner, their narrator's way of telling the story changes based on whose character's pov it is, so we can guess that the book’s narrator isn’t omniscient, but it’s actually a character’s inner voice. which isn’t anything new, as many users have pointed out that Shen Yuan isn’t a very reliable narrator, and some things of the books that are told from his pov don’t match with reality (the easiest example I can say is when sy and lgh reencounter after the eternal abyss. sy interpret’s lbg’s ‘dark gaze’ as his vengeful desire when actually half of the time he’s just being horny lol).

Something else I’ve noticed repeatedly, and kinda made me uncomfortable is sy’s portrayal of female disciples. Based on his belief that og!sqq preyed on his disciples, sy takes the liberty to make very perverted assertions that stay on the fictional side due to his fear of facing a similar ending as the one of the original goods. quoting some real phrases from the book:

“This was because he had designs on Ning Yingying—ah, no, more like the original Shen Qingqiu had designs on Ning Yingying!” (p. 34, first book).

“One can, however, imagine the result of daring to try to get a taste of the male lead’s woman!” (p. 35).

Or his description of the fight between Liu Mignyan and Sha Hualing:

“Every man dreamed of being caught between an angel and a devil. To watch them jealously vile for each other over him one moment, then risk life and limb for his sake in the next — that was the highest, most sacred, perverted fantasy of every male organism” (p. 112).

These aren’t the words of a neutral, omniscient narrator: these are Shen Yuan’s own thoughts. And he is a very perverted guy: it makes sense, as he was an avid reader of PIDW.

Following the conclusion that the narrator varies on the character’s pov, Shen Jiu’s story takes on a new meaning. Because all of the words in Chapter 24 are Shen Jiu’s own.

The Part 1 of the story starts with Shen Jiu on the streets, until Shiwu goes missing, and Yue Qi goes searching for him, with Sj following. The change to Part 2, which starts directly in the Qi mansions, is kinda abrupt. There are many reasons for something like this.

On one side, we can interpret that the story starts with Sj in the Qi mansions, and he was reflecting on his life to gauge how he ended up there. The sudden jump of events, which leaves us with a gap in information, can be due to trauma, or confusion: Sj isn’t entirely sure of what happened. That’s why this chapter is wholly written as a recount of events, from a man who, perhaps, needed to learn how to write and read to be able to put words to his life and story.

Shen Jiu’s reflections are born from his pain. At the end of Part 2, we get an explanation of how he ended in the Qi mansion:

“Shiwu should have been trampled to death, trampled into minced meat for thousands to spit upon. Qi-ge should have never gone back to save him [...]

As Shen Jiu suffered through day after day of torment, he turned those sweet yet futile thoughts over and over again in his mind, drawing strength and comfort from them” (p. 90, fourth book).

This phrase is very powerful. I think that, as Shen Jiu suffers, he reflects more on his life until now, on the reasons that guided him there, on the actions of those around him, and on the path they should’ve followed.

He wasn’t like that in Part 1. Even as a slave, he doesn't reflect on his pain or suffering because he was pretty much the top game among slave boys, and as Yue Qi says, “the other party would be the one to end up suffering and bawling in terror” (p. 82).

It’s also very meaningful how Part 3 starts:

“Shen Jiu thought a lot about why Yue Qi never returned to look for him” (p. 90).

Yess, right after Sj thinks that Yq should never’ve returned to look for Shiwu. Coincidence? I don’t think so!

Sj says “go back to save him”, but the one who actually saves them both, Shiwu and Yq, is Sj.

The question here is, does Shen jiu regret saving yue qi? Or is he afraid, as we see at the beginning of Part 3, that yue qi learned his lesson, and won’t come back to save a kid that could betray him at the end? Do you think that, after being imprisoned at the water prison, Shen Jiu considers himself a Shiwu too, betraying Yue Qingyuan and guiding the fall of the Cang Qiong Sect?

How do you think it felt for Sj to never get those answers either?

Before going foward, something very meaningful from Part 2 is Qi Jianluo’s reflections around Shen Jiu.

“As long as the boy remained obedient and honest, there would be no issues” (p. 88).

And “Humans must understand and repay kindness. Our family gave you the chance to play human, so even if it means repaying us with your life, that’s just how it should be.” (p. 89).

Who could you remember was obedient and honest? And wasn’t human?

Isn’t it awfully coincidental that the despicable way in which Qi Jianluo viewed Shen Jiu, is exactly what he tries to destroy in Luo Binghe? His honesty and obedience, his human side?

I’m not saying Sj did it intentionally, he clearly hated the boy, as stated in this chapter. But he made him the opposite of the weak, scorned version of himself.

And this is exactly what he says at the end of the chapter:

“Luo Binghe, everything you have today you owe to taking me as your master, so shouldn’t you thank me? Instead, you’re wholly unable to tell what’s good for yourself. As expected, you’re an ungrateful bastard” (p. 116).

Going forward, Part 3! Right off the bat, we have this beautiful phrase that just makes me go aghh:

“Shen Jiu even imagined walking to the ends of the earth looking for Yue Qi’s remains, and how, after finding them, he would dig him a grave with his own two hands. Perhaps he would even do his best to shed a tear” (p 90).

Let me remind you, that this is the only, single mention of crying in the whole chapter. From everything that Shen QingQiu has gone through, he has only thought of crying in the face of Yue Qi’s potential death.

He doesn’t cry when he receives the remains of Xuan Su, though. Because “This was not Yue Qi but Yue Qingyuan (p. 94).

Then, Shen Jiu puts it into words:

“Some people were rotten from birth. Shen Jiu thought of himself in exactly this way — someone vile and poisonous [ejem, like Shiwu, whose presence brought misfortune to his literal savior] from the start. Because, at that instant, he came to a crystal-clear realization:

That he’d rather have met a Yue Qi who’d died in some unknown corner, his remains unsightly and forgotten, than a Yue Qingyuan who was elegant and powerful, his prospects and future boundless” (p. 95).

This is exactly what I said before when I mention that Sj reflection’s starts from his pain, and his pain is born in the Qi household. Before, as a slave boy, Shen Jiu was actually the happiest. And that’s why he’d rather have a dead Yue Qi than an alive Yue Qingyuan: because he was still Shen Jiu, and he would be Shen Jiu until his death.

It’s right then and there, that Shen Jiu decides there’s something inevitably wrong in him, that he’s poisonous, scornful, and hateful.

And that word marks his future in Cang Qiong:

Part 4: “Shen Jiu hated far too many and far too many things” (p. 95).

But then, we get this phrase:

“I may be a hateful thing for most people, but luckily the Qing Jing Peak Lord doesn't despise me” (p. 99)

Is Shen QingQiu hateful, or is he hated?

Also, “thing”. He’s a hateful thing. So he’s still not human.

Changing topics, on page 100, we get to see a new side of Shen Jiu: his reflection on the women of the Red Pavilion. I think it’s very interesting to compare it with Sy’s considerations of women.

“Liking women wasn’t the least shameful, but treating women like saviors, cowering within their embrace and seeking courage from them... even without anyone saying it, Shen Qingqiu knew that was horrendously shameful”

From his wording, I don’t think Sj thinks badly of women: he thinks badly of himself. He considers that a man should be able to protect others, not be protected. The “horrendously shameful” thing is himself, and his pain.

And what’s really meaningful is when he says: “even without anyone saying it”. Because it shows us that many things Shen Jiu knows were taught by others' words. Because he was a slave boy, with no education of the noble, or even human ways (as slaves aren’t considered people), and everything he gathers of life he is constantly learning from others.

So of course he is hateful, and of course, he doesn’t get along with others: he hasn’t learned how to (and how big of a coincidence is it that Shen Yuan, who’s from a wealthy family, is able to get along with his Martial siblings just fine?).

Shen Qingqiu also knows that the only reason he was able to become a Peak Lord, is thanks to Qiu Jianluo’s teachings:

“In the past, Qiu Jianluo had forced Shen Jiu to learn how to read and write. Shen Jiu had been unwilling to learn, had detested it to the point of madness, yet now it was only through his abilities in reading and studying—through being smarter than his peers—that he’d been able to earn the Qing Jing Peak’s lord's favor. To make it even more laughable, of the thousands of possible names in this world, the peak lord had just happened to name him Qingqiu” (p. 101).

Doesn’t this remind you of something? I’m going to write this quote once again:

Just like Luo Binghe, Sj is where he is thanks to his abusive master. But never once does Sj regret his past:

“But no matter how laughable, no matter how it made him gnash his teeth, Shen Qingqiu still wanted that name, for this name represented that from now onward, a shining new life was his” (p. 116).

Notice the change of preposition, from “that” to “this”? That name is the Qiu name, and this name is the QingQiu name.

He is no Shen QingQiu, and no longer Shen Jiu.

“‘That name irritates me whenever I hear it. I’ve long forgotten it. So please, Zhangmen-shixiong, you should also discard it.’

[...] ‘ Then, the day you responder to it would be the day it no longer irritates you?’

[...] ‘ That would never happen’” (p. 101-102).

Shen Wingqiu wholeheartedly accepts his new name.

No matter what happened, we never see Shen QingQiu regretting his actions, neither cursing his fate. He accepts what life gives him, and he accepts his punishments.

“What’s happened has happened! I’ve already ‘considered’ it hundreds and thousands of times! There is no ‘if’, no ‘in the beginning’—, there was never any chance of redemption!” (p. 111).

And you know why that is? Because he already considered it a lot after Shiwu’s betrayal.

Shiwu should have been trampled, Yue Qi shouldn’t have gone to save him (should’ve come to save Shen Jiu). But after that experience, Shen Jiu learns that should’ve and could’ve, and would’s aren’t worth anything, because, at the end of the day, his life never goes the way it should.

And he just accepts it: “Only when I see other people unhappy can I be happy myself” (p. 112).

This quote was very strange to me because it didn’t really match Shen Jiu’s actions. We don’t see him going out of his way to make others unhappy. (Except Luo Binghe lol. He openly admits to trying to murder him).

I think the situation was quite the opposite: It was when Shen Qingqiu was happy, that others were unhappy: when he was in the Warm Red Pavillion, others were unhappy. When he was with his female disciples, others were unhappy. When he succeeded as a disciple and became Peak Lord, others were unhappy. And when he was a slave, living alongside Yue Qi in the streets, he now believes Yue Qingyuan was unhappy too.

Shen QingQiu’s happiness came with the price of others’ happiness, and that’s why he comes to accept that he prefers others’ suffering, he accepts other’s hate.

The first time Shen Qingqiu is in the Linxhi Caves alongside Yue Qingyuan, he notices the crude markings on the walls, and asks him about it. What’s relevant of this scene is that it’s the first time Shen QingQiu is the one starting a conversation.

Before that, we always see Yue Qingyuan looking for Shen Qingqiu, talking to him, interrogating him, and a Shen Qingqiu reluctant to talk. In this scene, the opposite happens: Shen Qingqiu asks, and Yue Qingqiu ignores him.

Here we see, that in those fundamental moments that Shen Qingqiu is the one interested in something, others (Yue Qingyuan) are distant.

Last but not least, I’d like to bring some of the last lines of the chapter to light:

“He had singlehandedly created the Luo Binghe of today, but who had singlehandedly wrought this ending of Shen Qingqiu’s?

Yue Qingyuan shouldn't have met this kind of fate” (p. 117).

THIS

THIS PHRASE

Made me go ughrr oh my god.

First of all, the acceptance: like yeah, I made the devil. It came to bite me in the ass. Okey.

But does he regret that? NO! He regrets being who he is. What he is. He regrets what he became: he regrets being hated, being unhappy, he regrets being mean, not because of what it caused him, but because of the person he became.

Shen Qingqiu never, not even once feels pity for his ending, for being tortured and mutilated. He only regrets being unhappy.

And also, he blames Yue Qingyuan for it.

Because it isn’t a coincidence that after that question, he mentions Yue Qingyuan’s name. First of all is a literary resource. Second, it’s the clear association of the narrator’s mind as he builds a sequence.

He blames Yue Qingyuan for the person he became, and also blames Yue Qingyuan for not being able to avoid the person he became: he denies his cruel destiny.

Yue Qingyuan shouldn't have met this kind of fate.

Because Shen Qingqiu only ever wished for the death of Yue Qi.

This chapter’s narrator is a very sharp, and concise one. He goes from scene to scene, from thought to thought, abandoning fluency and just concentrating on a list of events. This is a reflection of Shen Jiu’s mind: a recollection of traumatic events that brutally shaped him into the man he became.

We see very little emotion, very short pieces of a sentimental being that laze themselves as puzzle pieces trying to make the shape of a deeply traumatized man.

I said it before, and I say it again: SVSSS is a masterpiece, is a book that will become a classic and be analyzed by literary critics in universities (or it should become. we can only hope).

And MXTX is one of the best current fiction writers in the world.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk lol

#svsss #svsss novel #shen jiu #Shen Yuan #shen qingqiu #bingiu #liu qingge #liu mingyan #sha hualing #mxtx #mxtx books #mxtx characters #yue qingyuan #im not crying you are

226 notes · View notes

theheirofthesharingan · 3 months

Text

Itachi says a lot of things that I take with a pinch of salt because he's lying/has some sort of bias/isn't telling the complete truth or there's a subtexually relevant aspect to be considered in addition to what he's saying/not saying. In short, he isn't a reliable narrator even to tell his own story. But this.. this part right here makes me roll my eyes the most.

I stopped listening to anyone else.

It is funny because he didn't have people who would have given him a sound advice his entire life. Danzo, Hiruzen, and Fugaku aren't those people certainly. I doubt growing up with the Akatsuki members and listening to them would have benefited him in any way. This also resulted in what he says next: I stopped trusting anyone.

If Sasuke's flashbacks are any accurate reflection of how Itachi's life was, we know he lived a solitary life before the massacre as well, which made Danzo prey upon him even more easily. Itachi was definitely deluded. He lied to himself a lot. His entire judgment was clouded by his trauma and the experiences that he made one big mistake: not seeing things from Sasuke's perspective until it was too late.

His lack of trust on people was the outcome of people failing him. He carried missions on his own, was left to handle things that would require emotional support from adults as a child (Shisui's death, for example). A kid like that would grow up with trust issues. If he's arrogant there is a good reason for this. His inability to listen to others was the result of the people actively refusing to offer him any support.

However, I don't think he's being modest here. He did fail. He isn't trying to be a "better person" here. He's very much honest. He failed and he can't fix what he's broken. He's dead too. Admission of his wrong doings, acknowledging he doesn't deserve forgiveness, however, does make him an admirable person. This is the kind of growth that's hard because he spent his entire life living and protecting it.

He doesn't care about his legacy. He's okay even if Sasuke destroys it all, never forgives him. To him what matters is that Sasuke should live a better life than he did. They'll never meet again, and he doesn't want Sasuke to be haunted by his shadow, although he knows he'll always be present in some way. He wants Sasuke to trust Naruto, while also making his own decisions, even if it means all that he lived for is gone forever. Even if Sasuke brutally rejects all that Itachi hoped he would protect.

This is why his arc is so brilliant.

#itachi #itachi uchiha #uchiha itachi

83 notes · View notes

iwritenarrativesandstuff · 10 months

Text

Trimax Thoughts Vol. 4 Pt. 3

Alright. Bit of a heavier one for tonight. I want to talk Vash's relation to his own feelings of anger and how these tie into his suicidal thoughts, because it's tragically fascinating and I still can't really make heads or tails out of it - specifically in that I don't think anyone is a reliable narrator in this situation so I'm left a little lost as to who to believe.

(ID: A screenshot of four panels from Chapter 7 of Volume 4 of Trigun Maximum. A conversation between Hoppered and Vash takes place, in which Hoppered says "I bet you want to kill me too, right? Of course you do... You want to tear me limb from limb." A somewhat grainy image of Rem, smile visible but eyes hidden, is shown, before Vash replies, his eyes narrowed, "Yeah... I do..." End ID.)

Warning! I am going to be discussing Vash's no good, very bad mental health. It's nothing worse than what is obvious from a read of the manga but if you're not in the headspace for it, you might want to skip this one. I had a bit of trouble writing it, if I'm being honest.

Volume 4 basically solidified what had kept cropping up all throughout the manga - Vash is keeping himself going only through his goal of "settling the score" with Knives. On the next page, Vash says the following:

"That's why... you can go right ahead and kill me. But... before I give you that chance... before I let you bind me in chains, lock me up, and torture me to death... I will send Knives to hell!"

Yikes buddy. This has been a running bit of characterization all throughout the manga - Vash survives because he has to. He takes small moments of joy where he can, tries to smile even when he's not feeling it, looks on the bright side even when things seem hopeless, because that's the only way he can survive to do what he has to. <- There's nothing especially wrong with this. This is a coping mechanism and as far as his coping mechanisms go, it's not so bad at all. It's actually pretty good, all things considered.

Problem is, he also has to embody the ideal he strives for - that no one needs to die, that he will never kill. And herein lies the issue, because Vash already feels like a monster because of July. Any deviation from the peace loving pacifist image he tries so hard to maintain brings Vash's self-loathing to the surface.

Ex. Vash sees the moon his angel arm blew a hole in and goes from denying culpability for the destruction of July to hardly resisting and calling himself a murderer.

Ex. Vash expresses that he holds murderous sentiment towards Hoppered. He sees this as a justifiable reason for Hoppered to kill him.

Even the thought that he has or could still deviate from his promise made in Rem's memory causes him immense amounts of shame. Vash does not want to harm people. Is it out of love? Is it out of guilt? I think at this point, there's no separating them. Vash doesn't kill out of a mix of these two emotions that are so intertwined in his core they have become inextricable.

The thing is... Vash's driving emotion appears to actually be anger, specifically, anger against Knives. He wants to "settle the score", which is a pretty retributive mentality for someone trying to embody pacifism. In fact, that kind of motivation strongly clashes with that image in a way that imo cannot coexist. It's reasonable in his mind to take that stance against Knives, who is not one of the humans Rem died to save, but against humans, it's unacceptable. So, Vash represses his anger constantly.

A great example of this is watching the contrast between Vash fighting Leonof and Wolfwood fighting Ninelives. Wolfwood fights with his emotions on visceral display; he is loud and cocky and desperate and violent. Vash, on the flip side, is almost dangerously quiet and composed, to the point Wolfwood seems a bit disturbed by it - but it's all repression. He needs to stay focused, his motions are calculated to reduce harm even against the puppets, he's eerily silent and his facial expressions are controlled and muted for the most part; all methods that Vash uses to stay in control (<- this is important!).

Here's the thing. I don't know that I necessarily, fully believe that Vash wants to kill Hoppered. I don't know that I trust anyone's narration in this scene - first of all, Hoppered is mad projecting his animosity onto Vash because he needs to secure the image of Vash as unrepentant destroyer of July; if Vash isn't the demon he believes him to be, his quest for revenge was for nothing (well, sort of. Vash obviously did destroy the city, but the intent was not there - and the latter seems to be what Hoppered is banking his hatred on). Hoppered earlier accused Vash of enjoying the fight... which is pretty clearly not true, so that it was Hoppered who prompted Vash's admittance above is a little suspect. Second, we've seen what Vash looks like when actually violently angry.

(ID: Two separate images screenshotted from the Trigun manga. The first shows Vash raising his gun at a recently reborn Knives, angrily shouting the other's name. The second shows Vash having jammed the barrel of his gun into Monev's eye, clearly close to pulling the trigger. End ID.)

To me, I see little indication in the build up to this of Vash legitimately wanting to kill Hoppered. He had no desire to kill Rai-Dei after all, and that was after he knew the GHG were targeting Home. Hoppered is probably the most sympathetic of the GHG. Vash is also in a self-destructive mindset in this scene, having just called himself a murderer after seeing the damage done to the moon again.

Is he agreeing with Hoppered's projection because he wants Hoppered to continue to hate him enough to punish him for the deaths of all those people? (The image of Rem then becomes symbolic of his having already failed to uphold her sacrifice.) Or should I be taking his words at face value and he really does want to kill Hoppered? (In this case, the image of Rem is out of guilt for voicing something aloud that goes against his image of her.) Is it possible that a combination of his self-loathing in this scene and fear of himself has him agreeing with Hoppered out of resignation that despite his best efforts, he is doomed to destroy? (Like in fifth moon's "we were no good from the start". The image of Rem is thus the image of someone genuinely good and kind to him, an image he feels he cannot embody no matter how hard he tries.)

I find it very ambiguous honestly. Any interpretation is compelling from a character sense. Perhaps they all hold merit to some degree.

Regardless of how you interpret the line though, Vash is obviously angry, and for good reason - Hoppered, Midvalley and Zazie have taken Meryl. He's also likely afraid for her too - dude did jump out a window for like no practical purpose whatsoever before Zazie even finished talking. Like that's really sweet buddy but you accomplished absolutely nothing of use lol. Anyways. The point is, even if Vash was angry enough to want to kill Hoppered (and it would be for this reason, since nothing else would really warrant that), then that still wouldn't make Vash secretly evil and awful - first off, having a thought does not mean you will actually act on it, and second, what's the thing we keep getting shown and told, again and again?

Anyone will pick up a gun when their loved ones are threatened.

It's very natural to feel animosity for a person who may have harmed someone we care about. In that sense, Vash is behaving very human.

However, there's an extra layer here that complicates things. Vash has never been shy about his anger, but I think there is a bit of a progression of Vash kind of... tamping down on it faster, reeling it back in a little sooner after an initial flare of rage. ...Ever since Fifth Moon, actually. We also know that he has a strict training regimen, he does not miss a target, even blindfolded - Vash clearly maintains strong control over himself, all to mitigate the potential damage he could cause.

But then there's his Plant abilities. The angel arm. Something destructive he clearly does not understand, and has little if any control over (never mind that control was literally wrenched away from him but whatever). I don't think it's a stretch to say Vash is terrified of losing control.

Any human can feel hatred and anger and potentially cause moderate amounts of harm and damage, but these are likely to be targeted and can be more easily contained. Vash feels hatred and anger and has the capacity to level a city and blow a hole in a celestial body in the blink of an eye, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. That must be terrifying.

Because, see, the no-killing thing is out of respect for Rem, but Vash also strongly wants to, needs to believe that non-violent solutions are possible, that people are good, that anyone can change. Vash, out of some combination of love and guilt, does not actually want to harm anyone, but Vash is also a living gun just under the surface of his iron self-control. And being reminded of that deeply fucks him up, to the point he believes he is a danger by nature, incapable of living up to the standard of kindness he wants to put into the world, so even just the thought of wanting to inflict harm on another is enough to send him spiraling - because what if that is the point he loses his control? "I should never have been born" indeed...

It's interesting to me that Vash should call Wolfwood out on his lack of hope in a future for the world, when he so clearly has little if any hope in a future for himself. He allots himself no place in the world. Maybe you should allow yourself to heal a little, buddy. You have some people pretty close by who, in spite of it all, like you quite a lot...

#starting putting ids under my images since i want to make sure they are easily accessible! should've been doing that before... sorry #(hope they're ok! i tried lol)#also i apologize for the delay in writing this - the topic + my stupid depression episode was uh. not a good combo. i just couldn't write #while in that headspace.#i hope this actually made sense lol i have no idea if it flowed well or makes sense or if i wildly misinterpreted #tw suicidal thoughts #<-if there is a better tag for me to be using for these kinds of discussions please inform me!#trigun #trigunbookclub #trimax #trigun meta #vash the stampede #call me ace detective the way i am ace. and also a detective.#storyrambles

179 notes · View notes

verycharismaticdragon · 10 months

Text

Okay, so I went a lil overboard with a reply to LBH criticism over at @controversial-blorbo-bracket, and I figure 4.5K words that probably should be put under a community label are a bit too much for a reblog, so I'm posting it separately.

CW for general discussion of sex, and for rape mention (assumption of rape is discussed and rebutted).

------

You know what, I was going to reply to this the usual way, you know, 'oh look at that, another person with surface level reading who hates binghe!' because fr every single binghe disliker has the same talking points - which, you know, individually were long discussed (and disproved) by ppl in fandom - but then I was suddenly hit with a spoon beam so now I'm writing a long-ass answer.

Starting with the most glaring, this sentence:

Their dynamic ended up coming off more as SQQ tolerating this unmanageable man-baby and letting him fuck (and hurt him in the process, and then cry about that, more than SQQ himself did) him just to get him to shut the fuck up sometimes, like giving a toddler a biscuit to appease them.

has clued me in to the largest thing anon has missed. Remember how I said "surface-level reading"? Let me explain. There are great many avenues for analyzing a book, especially one as crunchy on a meta-level as svsss (you'll see what I mean by that later).

But the most basic thing - the LVL1 if you will - is asking yourself the following questions: (1) whose POV is the book written from? (2) is that POV omniscient or limited? (2.1) are there cases where the POV character doesn't know something we, the reader, have inferred? (3) if it's limited, how reliable is their narration? (3.1) are there cases of their actions not aligning with their narration? (3.2) are there reasons for them to lie to themselves and/or the reader?

For SVSSS, the answers are: (1) mostly Shen Qingqiu's POV; (2) limited; (2.1) e.g. he doesn't know what's going on in Luo Binghe's head (we'll get back to this more in-depth later), most notably not realizing Luo Binghe is in love with him for good 2/3rds of the book; (3) unreliable; (3.1) think him insisting he is fine when he's clearly grieving post-Abyss - which we can see both from other characters' reactions, and from stray thoughts that he himself has and then dismisses (eng.edition chapter 4: "No! Bah! Shen Qingqiu mentally slapped himself. Who are you calling a grieving widow?! Whose husband died?! That's not something you should just say--you're really getting worse by the day.") (3.2) off the top of my head: the trauma SQQ is going through, with his two coping mechanisms being 'not thinking about it' and 'making light of the situation'; internalized toxic masculinity - as in, the idea that it's shameful for a man to have emotions; internalized homophobia - as in, being unable to examine his attraction to men (evident from very early on, actually) without having a knee-jerk 'it's wrong!' reaction.

To sum it up: Shen Qingqiu's POV is limited and his narration is unreliable. What does this tell us? That we should take what he says in the narrative voice with the grain (or like, a spoonful) of salt, and that it's worth to close-read him. Don't just believe him when he says something; look for evidence!

Going back to anon's words, saying that SQQ appears to just 'tolerate' Luo Binghe tells me that you have not caught SQQ's lies at all.

(cont. under cut)

SQQ is, pardon my language, fucking obsessed with Luo Binghe - just in a different way than Luo Binghe is with him. He is constantly thinking about Luo Binghe even when the latter is not around! (Contrast it to how he thinks about his family from his og world like, 3 times over the course of the book, despite loving them.) And when LBH is around, SQQ can't go a page without mentioning how incredibly beautiful he is! (And then blames it on Luo Binghe being a protagonist, like, of course the protagonist is the most beautiful person in the world, that's natural!.. We later get the POV of a literal author of the world, btw, and he says he wrote LBH as a conventionally beautiful prettyboy type, and his own ideal man is completely different. Which is how we know that SQQ going on about LBH's radiant showstopping obvious-to-anyone beauty is really only his own opinion that he's trying to sell to us as a universal truth.)

And, speaking of LBH's crimes anon mentions (I will not be calling them 'warcrimes', sorry, none of the very few less-than-moral things he does can be classified as that) - you may notice that, for both actual things LBH did and for things SQQ attributed to him mistakenly, those never changed the way SQQ feels about Binghe. He thinks LBH killed his kinda-friend and still jumps in to sacrifice himself to save LBH's life. He sees the guy LBH mutilated, and is disturbed by that... but still continues to protect LBH. Gives him a lil forehead kiss like 20 minutes later.

Oh, and let's not forget the scene where SQQ is punished with a hyper-realistic dream of original LBH tearing off his limbs, and his reaction to that is "I need to see my Binghe asap immediately like rn, I need my cute version of Binghe to feel better about this."

This all is to point out that SQQ continuously fails to be normal about LBH. That's a feature! That's what makes their relationship fun! "Clearly you are perfect for each other pls dont involve anyone else in whatever the fuck is wrong with you" kinda situation.

But you must look through the cover of SQQ's misdirections for it - like again, trauma! toxic masculinity! internalized homophobia! It's difficult for him to admit his feelings even in his head, but he is getting better about that. In Mei vs Ge extra, SQQ admits he wanted LBH to push a little more about them sharing a bed and that he would have agreed. And is kinda put out that LBH simply accepted his refusal. Then in Deep Dream extra, SQQ is literally the one to jump LBH. And in Wedding extra, he almost manages to look directly at the fact that he's very happy that LBH is proposing to him! So yeah, he is getting better at admitting it too. But honestly, his feelings about LBH were always really intense. In different ways over the course of the novel, but he adored LBH from before he transmigrated, and that adoration never lessened, despite everything that happened between them. You just gotta look at his actions and not his 24/7 mental stand-up routine.

All right, next, in the same paragraph the previous thing came from, I'll abridge and highlight for relevancy:

Their dynamic ended up coming off more as SQQ tolerating this unmanageable man-baby and letting him fuck [...] him just to get him to shut the fuck up sometimes, like giving a toddler a biscuit to appease them. And it came off very gross, especially in the epilogue, when Luo Binghe was blatantly manipulative about that, pushing and cornering Shen Qingqiu into doing more than he already was, and using his tears to his advantage, in a way that was clearly in the text not unintentional.

...Listen, for someone claiming to hate how one-dimensional LBH ended up, I'm seeing a distinct lack of effort at actually understanding the character. Luo Binghe's teary act (in the moments when it is an act, because there are also many moments when his tears are genuine, we'll get to that later) is, first and foremost, for Shen Qingqiu's benefit.

Shen Qingqiu admits it himself that he finds it easier to be "frank" with Luo Binghe who is "willing to cling to his legs and throw a tantrum to seek comfort" (Return to Childhood extra). It's the internalized toxic masculinity and homophobia thing again. It's actually pretty interesting how he rewires his brain from its knee-jerk reaction of "homosexuality wrong" by mentally comparing Luo Binghe to a girl - like calling him Bing-mei, thinking he's acting "like a lovesick maiden", etc. God I want to study this man like a bug. Anyway, yeah, the point is that LBH acting cute and whiny helps SQQ be more comfortable with giving affection to a man, something that he struggles with because of his personal issues.

And Luo Binghe, while not aware of the exact nature of SQQ's issues (having grown up in a world where homophobia doesn't seem to exist), does understand this - that Shen Qingqiu’s thin face and pride make it difficult for him to show emotions. And it's not something LBH intrinsically knows either; he has to figure it out (not without help, everybody say thank you papa Airplane), confirm it for himself (the "But other than hearing Shizun crying..." - "Who was crying?" - "Other than hearing someone crying, [...]" scene comes to mind), and then accept it as truth (which he doesn't seem to fully do until at least the Maigu Ridge, and Shen Qingqiu outright saying "I do it for you and only you!" - if not even later.) It takes him time to learn how to work with this knowledge too...

And, to be brutally honest, how blatant and over the top he gets with the act is entirely due to how SQQ keeps rewarding the behavior.

Now... you might consider this a conjecture, given how we only get the tiniest glimpses into Luo Binghe's mind - in the rare moments the author shifts out of the primary POV. But fortunately, one of those moments can be used to prove that Luo Binghe is not, in fact, "pushing and cornering" Shen Qingqiu into doing things Shen Qingqiu doesn't want to do.

The moment I'm talking about is in the Mei vs Ge extra: Shen Qingqiu, having agreed to "do some exploring together", sees LBH's giant 🐓, goes "absolutely not" out loud, and attempts to give him a handjob instead — which also doesn't go too well. Bringing us to (LBH's POV emphasized):

No matter how calm Shen Qingqiu kept himself, he couldn’t stop his expression from twisting. Luo Binghe had secretly been paying attention to his face the entire time. At this moment, he carefully said, “Then, Shizun, how about… you do it?”

LBH is attentively watching SQQ's reactions to figure out what he's thinking and feeling. The moment Binghe comes to the conclusion that SQQ is uncomfortable with bottoming, he offers to let him top. Notice how he doesn't start crying or whining to get his way, when it's something that might be a genuine hard line for SQQ?

And it's actually the same in the Regret of Chunshan extra: when SQQ shot LBH's idea down, LBH "looked a bit disappointed, but didn't push the issue". Yes, later SQQ will say LBH was "putting on a pitiful act"; but if you read the scene carefully, LBH did not do anything but look a bit disappointed - and SQQ just walked himself into feeling bad about refusing completely on his own.

Now, when does Luo Binghe use crocodile tears then? Well, the answer seems to be: when it's about small things. Like wanting to do it face to face (after they've already agreed on both sex in general and on who will top), or begging SQQ to call him 'husband' (after they have gotten married). Ultimately inconsequential things, and, likely, things that he suspects SQQ is avoiding only because of embarrassment and not anything more serious.

So, to sum up this section: Luo Binghe's crybaby act is for Shen Qingqiu's peace of mind first and foremost, and Luo Binghe does not actually use it to coerce Shen Qingqiu into anything he wouldn't be willing to do. LBH is not responsible for the fact that Shen Qingqiu has no bottom line when it comes to him and can't handle seeing him even minorly disappointed, let's be real.

Okay, last thing from that paragraph (yes there's another thing):

and letting him fuck (and hurt him in the process, and then cry about that, more than SQQ himself did)

See, with the way anon describes it here, I can't even tell which scene this references, but luckily I have a rebuttal for both options.

Like, is this about the Maigu Ridge? Aka the scene where LBH is not in his right mind (literally hallucinating, among other things) - and then comes back to consciousness to see that he, by all appearances, had brutally raped the person he loves with all his heart? No fucking wonder he starts crying?!.. And to clarify, he did not rape SQQ, because SQQ had given informed consent here. If anything, there was nobody in that scene less consenting than Luo Binghe himself.

Or is this about the scene in Mei vs Ge. Which is like. Entirely on SQQ, who decided to keep quiet instead of telling LBH that it hurts. Like, whatever that was about! It's only, oh, one of the major themes of the novel that hiding your feelings and struggles is bad, and will hurt not only you but people who care about you.

...Btw, if someone not in fandom is reading this with increased befuddlement for why those two are having so much painful sex. Well, aside from the scene where LBH is tripping balls because of a cursed sword, and the situation is forced by the literal will of the narrative (more on this later), our couple are two adult virgins with no sex-ed, and one of them is in possession of (canonically) the biggest dick in the world. Given those factors, it would be weirder if they were able to have flawless sex right away. (And it's a meta-commentary, something we'll also get to later.)

Speaking of the cursed sword, it's somewhat amazing that anon says all this

Why did they make him become this? I understand what he went through, I'm not asking about cause and effect, I'm saying the effect could have been so much better and more realistically (in my opinion and from my personal experience with trauma) written. I'm not saying he couldn't be burnt or bitter or jaded, nor that he couldn't be clingy or overly emotional or manipulative, I just think it could have been done better, and I HATE what his character became for the second half (realistically, most) of the story.

and completely fails to mention that between LBH's return from the Abyss and the end of the main story, LBH's actions are severely affected by a cursed sword that amps up his emotions with the express purpose of destroying his mind. Seems somewhat relevant to why his behavior isn't written as a realistic trauma response? And instead as a trauma response amped up to eleven and set on fire? And that's without even getting into LBH giving himself supernatural brain damage as a form of self-harm. Which uh. doesnt simply map onto any irl concept really.

Continuing from this, I think it's time for me to expand on one of the points from earlier: about how Shen Qingqiu doesn't know what's going on in Luo Binghe's head for most of the novel. It will be tied to this particular bit of criticism on anon's part:

I feel like the author utterly assassinated his character in the 2nd half of the novel (ever since he came back from the abyss) and turned him into a one dimensional caricature of himself, and I HATED IT.

What I want to suggest here is tied, once again, to how Shen Qingqiu’s POV is limited and unreliable. So, a new batch of questions: (4) is our understanding of other characters' actions affected by the limited POV? (5) is there a particular reason for the author to keep other characters' motivations opaque to the POV character? (6) can anything be gleaned by reconstructing other characters' perspectives?

The answer to (4) is a yes so resounding the POV character himself admits it: "First, he'd thought Luo Binghe was unbelievably cruel and evil, then he'd thought Luo Binghe was unspeakably strong and bright." (ch.21) Shen Qingqiu has the very same problem as anon does: he sees Luo Binghe as one-dimensional, making assumptions about how he's supposed to act - instead of trying to understand what's there.

Which leads us neatly into the answer to (5): people making assumptions about what's best for the other person instead of asking them what they need, and hurting them as a result, is also a major theme, present in many relationships throughout the novel! And that's only half of the answer.

The other half will require us to go a little meta. You see, BingQiu's relationship, among other things, are meant to echo the relationship between the reader and the character. The reader loves the character, but they are also the reason for their suffering - as for the story to go on, the character must continuously face more and more difficult obstacles. Shen Qingqiu both loving Luo Binghe and causing him unspeakable amount of trauma is meant to mirror that. Shen Qingqiu's expectations for how Luo Binghe should act, and attempts to fit him into one or the other archetype, are also, yknow, reader behavior.

And... are we not also readers? Are we not expecting Luo Binghe to act a certain way (for example, when I first read the novel, I fully expected him to keep being a classic ML: to swallow all his grievances and keep being unquestioningly and ardently devoted to MC. Which, once articulated, is such an unfair expectation!), and feel it's "character assassination" - to borrow anon's words - when he does not adhere to the role he's supposed to inhabit, based on our idea of his personality and place in the story?

So: is there a reason the author seems to deliberately make Luo Binghe hard to understand, irrational, or one-note, to both Shen Qingqiu and us? Making it harder to sympathize with him? For example, can it be commentary on oversimplifying complex characters to just their role, or just one aspect of their personality...

As for the answer to (6), I ultimately want to leave it for you to try it out and decide. I'm literally the person who wrote a 90k character study fic to try and figure out the minutiae of Luo Binghe's post-Abyss mental state, so my answer is I think obvious. He has a lot going on!

Which kind of brings me to another of anon's gripes:

And actually that made me really sad because I wanted to enjoy it so much, because I LOVED the beginning, and I love Shen Qingqiu, but the evolution of Luo Binghe and the refusal to let him KEEP evolving inescapably ruined the story for me. He was insufferable, and I kept hoping he would grow and get better, but he just never did.

Look, I simply cannot agree that Luo Binghe did not grow and get better; it just largely happens at the very end of the main story and in the extras. I know anon has missed that, since they missed the more obvious things like Shen Qingqiu being obsessed with Binghe right back and Binghe using the pathetic act to help Shen Qingqiu feel more at ease, so I'll get to that in a bit. But first, I want to make sure we are on the same page about everything before that.

The part of Luo Binghe's arc between the Abyss and the Maigu Ridge is a downward spiral. He's going through the corruption arc, just as the original version of him did; the narrative demands it.

And it's not like 'the narrative' is a nebulous force here; there are literal actors of its will in the story, the System and Xin Mo sword. Like, in particular, the Maigu Ridge sex scene is a perfect example of how those two actors push Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu. The System literally withholds a key item that can help Luo Binghe regain his conscious mind until Shen Qingqiu has sex with him - you know, until the demands of the narrative of a romance story are fulfilled. And Xin Mo literally corrodes Luo Binghe's mind so that he acts like the original version from PIDW, because the truth is, SVSSS Luo Binghe would rather die than actually force himself on Shen Qingqiu. (Binghe's first reaction to seeing what he'd done is to ask "Why didn't you kill me?" and like. understandable. im crying also)

Oh, right, I promised to explain how bad sex is meta, this is a good spot for that. You see, it's a commentary on the 'flawless first time' trope, and also 'sex is a cure' trope. The author posits that two virgins having sex would naturally be awkward and not magically good. And that having sex in a highly stressful situation where one of the parties is not in control of their faculties would naturally be really fucking bad, and also not magically good.

But back to narrative demands. The point is, Luo Binghe simply cannot get better until "the story" ends. He can't heal while the world around him is literally deadset on dragging him down to become a bloodthirsty, sex-obsessed tyrant. The only thing that saves him is Shen Qingqiu managing to get them into the happily ever after zone by the skin of his teeth. There's a reason the main story of the book ends with: "The story circulating through the world might already have ended. But the story between you and me has only just began". 'The story circulating through the world' is the narrative the characters were trapped in; only once it has ended can Shen Qingqiu and Luo Binghe be allowed to go free, to actually live their lives and be happy. (This novel is very meta, I'm telling you.)

All right, now, back to how Luo Binghe actually did grow and get better! We're almost to the end! I fear to see how long this post is, at this point!

Now, I could be pointing out specific details, like Luo Binghe letting SQQ be brought back to Cang Qiong because he thinks that's what SQQ would want - when his whole breakdown before was about how he couldn't keep SQQ with him. Or I could be reminding you of the second section of this post, and saying that Luo Binghe learning to bypass SQQ's embarrassment by playing cute is actually also character development, even if you didn't like it.

But I think we should go for the heart of the issue. You see, yet another prominent theme in SVSSS is toxic masculinity. It's baked into the setting, with the "original" book our MC transmigrated into being a heterostraight harem novel; it's something our MC struggles with, when his learned toxic behaviors screw over both himself and the person he loves; and - most important to our current topic - it's the chief source of tension within Luo Binghe's character.

Literally, there are even names for two polar axes of his personality in the story: Bing-ge (ge=big brother), coined by in-story fandom to describe original Luo Binghe of PIDW, and Bing-mei (mei=little sister), the nickname SQQ comes up with specifically for "lovesick maiden"-acting Binghe.

"Bing-ge" side, of course, represents toxic masculinity. Extremely obviously in OG!LBH's case, what with him being the protagonist of 'male wish fulfillment and misogyny: the novel', but if you think about it, SV!LBH also demonstrates toxic masc behaviors, starting post-Abyss and up to Maigu Ridge. Noticeably, exactly when he had Xin Mo fucking him up - Xin Mo in general is symbolic of the "original" narrative, pushing SV!LBH to replicate the OG's behavior. And also it's a sword. The symbol of toxic masc version of the narrative is. A sword. RIP Freud you would've loved Scum Villain.

But what does "Bing-mei" stand for, if we detangle it from SQQ's 5D chess with his own sexuality? We know Bing-mei cooks and cleans and gives waist massages. We also know Bing-mei shows affection freely, and isn't embarrassed to cry, and has a sensitive heart. A man who is caring instead of controlling, a man who is not afraid to be vulnerable and emotional... Bing-mei side is meant to represent the healthy / soft masculinity.

And Luo Binghe's arc is rooted in the struggle between healthy and toxic sides of masculinity. What I think is tripping up a lot of people is that he starts at the healthy place, in his "white lotus" days. He is caring, he is affectionate, he shows the full range of emotion.

Then, the world comes for him, and he falls (or, yknow, is pushed) into toxic patterns of behavior. He hides his vulnerability, the only show of emotion he allows himself are outbursts of anger, he tries to control the person he loves... and thus hurts people around him and himself. His breakdown at Maigu Ridge is about thinking he can never be good enough, no matter what he does - see, the very idea that there's some level of achievement that can make a person unequivocally lovable is a toxic masc mindset!..

But the thing is, him breaking down here - admitting that he can't "win", showing the messy, undesirable, emotional side of himself - demonstrating that he can't be the Bing-ge version - is what opens up a path for him to communicate with Shen Qingqiu. Giving him the genuine connection he needed, that Bing-ge could never have. And thus allowing him to destroy the toxic-masculinity-representing sword.

So, the evolution path the author charts out for Luo Binghe from there on is him growing into the healthy masculinity patterns. Starting with, again, putting caring about his partner above controlling him and letting SQQ be brought back to Cang Qiong. Which SQQ didn't actually want, but we've already covered that he's his own kind of freak(affectionate). And continuing to try to do better by SQQ and listen to him (eg the whole SQQ refusing to share a bed and LBH acceding so easily SQQ was left reeling, because he was planning to agree once LBH pushed). And learning that he can show emotion and be validated for it (see Return to Childhood extra with its "if you are unhappy, say so"). And accepting that he doesn't need to be perfect to be loved (the guy faceplanted trying to propose and still got his man...). And, hell - count 'doing his best to learn how to pleasure his partner in bed' with this as well!

So, once again, as a closing note: I simply can't agree that Luo Binghe doesn't grow and evolve. You just have to let go of your preconceived notions of what his character should be like, and learn to see, understand, and appreciate what's there. The same arc Shen Qingqiu, his most faithful reader, goes through.

For a book as meta as SVSSS, that's obviously no coincidence.

#cw rape mention #(assumption of rape is discussed and rebutted)#luo binghe #bingqiu #svsss #svsss meta #scum villain's self saving system #scum villain's self-saving system #mxtx #danmei novels

156 notes · View notes

marchentraume · 6 months

Text

Radio Omens Thoughts

General -

First off, you can find the Radio Drama here uwuwuwu

The cast was 10/10 amazing, I love the audiobook but it was really interesting to hear how Neil and Sir Terry wanted everyone to sound before the show was even a thought. Dirk Maggs and Heather Larmour's Direction is so well done! I'm a huge fan of Hitchhiker's Guide so might try out his radio drama later...

The Them and Anathema are personal faves of the supporting cast so I’m always happy to get a new experience with those characters, Anathema’s gaydar going off the charts was perfect (“‘Angel’?” gets me good).

Just want to highlight Josie Lawrence as Agnes is perfect just like with the show, I’m so happy they didn’t change that after the radio drama, the adaptation made her so wickedly charming that I think was in the show but it goes by so fast with everything going on.

There are definitely parts in the book that are somewhat hard for me to get through, and I think the radio adaptation helped push those along a lot better. I do wish we got to hear the parts of Aziraphale spirit hopping around a bit before finding Crowley, but I just wanted to hear him talk more. Overall this is a good way to experience the book if you aren’t sure about reading it yet, or you’re like me and need help figuring out what it was I read in the first place.

Aziraphale and Crowley -

No notes holy shit 20/10 casting, they’re only in the drama just about as much as the book which makes me sad but their scenes were absolutely burning with how flirty they were.

They are 100% already married here and comfortable with each other, the lull of their routine is only disrupted by Armageddon which is really annoying so now they have to do their jobs.

Aziraphale acting as narrator for some scenes was a good choice, blah blah something about reliable vs unreliable narrator Crowley (I just can’t put it to words right now oops).

Peter Serafinowicz your Crowley gives me so much gender it’s insane, also when he’s doing the nanny voice???? Hello????? I could have a whole chapter of him and Aziraphale during that time just chatting with each other and little Warlock.

I overall really loved the respective performances of Peter and Mark, both portrayed the two with this freedom of doubt and lots of mutual love. Crowley still wants to keep Aziraphale safe and he’s confident he can even as events get worse, the latter is stubborn knowing he’s right but confident that his demon will catch up and figure it out (even if begrudgingly so). They already have their happy ending, it can only get happier from here after they save the world.

I definitely recommend Radio Omens, it really is part of the golden triad of experiencing the story.

My personal recommendation: Book, Show, Radio

If you have a harder time starting books (be it reading or listening) then: Show, Book, Radio

Next on my list is the audiobook with the show cast, but I’ll take a break for a bit since every time I read/watch the original story I get so worked up I need to calm down for about a month or so :’)

What do YOU all think of radio omens? Please tell me or send me Radio Omens headcanons and opinions. I need them badly chomping at the bit here!

#good omens #radio omens #neil gaiman #terry pratchett #aziraphale #crowley #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #anathema device #agnes nutter #my writing #my words

143 notes · View notes

sirfrogsworth · 6 months

Text

So... I paid $220 to go from this...

To this...

I'm pretty sure that was not worth it.

But good for Dakota. He is an excellent salesman.

Now, my previous tire sensors were wildly inaccurate. Sometimes they were off by over 5-10 PSI. I can't tell you how many times I thought my tires were nearly flat and then I'd bust out my Jaco Elite Digital Tire Pressure Gauge with shop-grade accuracy, a robust stem, and a 360° swivel chuck...

And I'd be like, "Yo Jaco, my dashboard says my left front tire only has 18 PSI!"

And Jaco would be like, "Dude, chill. You're still at 27. You'll be fine. Also, remember that since your brother had to swap out a wheel, your sensors think your left front tire is your right front tire. He said it was a pain to fix and you should just remember which is which and he was sure that wouldn't be confusing in the future."

Narrator: It was very confusing.

If there could be one redeeming result from this, it would be getting those Cadillac-grade super accurate tire pressure readings.

So... let's compare the new fancy $220 pressure sensors to Jaco, who is certified accurate to professional ANSI 2A standards.

*drumroll*

Well slap my patoot and call me a Cadillac.

That's... amazing.

The largest delta was only 0.6 PSI!

I don't know if that meets ANSI 2A standards, but that exceeds FROGGIE 2A standards.

And the left front tire was the left front tire and the right front tire was the right front tire. And I'm sure all of that time I spent training myself to reverse the reading from the front tires will not cause any more confusion.

Narrator: It will.

This means I can actually rely on these readings. I don't actually have to bend over and kill myself trying to stick Jaco onto the little... *brain gears grinding* umm... the tire nipple? The pressure nubbin? The nubbin nipple pressure thingie?

The valve stem!

That's what that's called. The tire nubbin nipple valve stem.

Poor Jaco might end up collecting dust. I'll make sure I remember to press his rapid air bleeder every once in a while to give him some attention.

Narrator: He won't.

Poor Jaco.

In any case, having reliable pressure sensors that save me from bending over does make me feel better. Not $220 better. But better. I mean, having an expensive thing be functional is a low bar, but I am happy it works.

Alright, down to business. Who wants to see some beauty shots of these budget tires that get super hard in the winter?

May I introduce you to the Radar Dimax AS-8 tires.

So fresh and new.

So rubbery.

Those leaves were totally just there. By no means did I kick them in front of the tire to add a pop of color. I have journalistic integrity and I only shoot the truth.

Look at that asymmetric tread on this all season sport touring tire.

Do you want to go sport touring with me?

Is that a thing people do?

Look at how deep that tread is. These babies won't be balding for years.

Let's get closer.

Absolutely cavernous.

I'd even say that tread depth is downright... trenchy.

Like, I'm half expecting an X-wing to fly in there.

If only I knew someone proficient in the ways of Photoshop.

I'm that someone!

#long post

49 notes · View notes

rulanarinrush · 5 days

Text

very disjointed thoughts on ch2

Please note that this isn't a theory. While I talk about the likely culprits of this case, I'm not making any definitive statements about who the killer is. I state who I think the killer is, but like. It's probably wrong, anyway. We don't have that much information yet.

Please note that some stuff might be wrong because I haven't gone back and rewatched the entirety of drdt ch2. If there's something wrong in here you can let me know.

Let's start with the gym tape. While I've seen many people point that only Eden, Teruko(did not do it, assuming we have a reliable narrator) or Ace could have grabbed the gym tape, but I also think it's possible that Levi could have taken it. This is due to our limited view from Teruko's POV. When Ace is having his home invasion Open Up! breakdown in front of Nico's door, after Levi offers to help him with his neck, Ace has his little we no besties spiel and then goes to his room. I think this because we hear a door slam immediately afterwards. Is it possible he just ran to the infirmary? Yes, but we know the infirmary has a sliding door. If he closed the door that hard we hear a slam, considering how far apart the living quarters are from the infirmary, I'm quite impressed by how stable that sliding door is. He really has no other reason to go to any other room while his neck is bleeding. But notably, we hear Levi walk off before Teruko decides that it's time to let the plot pass. Where did he go? It's possible he just went to the infirmary, but we also don't know where Eden went. Maybe Eden followed him to the gym? Maybe she gave him the sticky tape because he wanted it for some reason?

I can't refute the idea that maybe someone was in their room and overheard everything, we know from the cactus scene that the rooms aren't soundproof, and then decided to pick up the gym tape later. I also can't refute the idea that Ace could still be Arei's killer due to again, the gym tape and the resistance band from like. I want to say episode 2 or 3? Sorry I'm too lazy to rewatch things I immediately can't remember. I also... don't remember if it actually is a resistance band, as I'm not well-versed in gym equipment(Teruko moment), but I want to say so. I think it's fairly obvious some sort of contraption, probably a pulley lever of some kind, was used to kill Arei due to the scuff marks on the playground equipment that are fairly straight that indicate that there was a rope tied to there, and the friction from the rope took the paint/created the scuff marks off as the water filled jugs with the fish in it had enough combined mass to create enough force to snap Arei's neck when she dropped(hence why the handles on the jug are broken), all this to say that the resistance band could have been used to bind everything together, as the synthetic rubber would be unlikely to break even when stretched a lot. In a show with a limited runtime, they're not gonna just drop a detail like "Ace has the resistance band" and not use it somehow now, or in a later chapter. chekhov's gun or smth like that i dunno

Let's talk the infirmary scene. I regret to tell you that my brain is made of sponge and I don't remember what day of ch2 Arturo decides to bend a full 60 degrees downward and threaten a girl only 13 inches taller than Levi's boobs, but I do remember that the conversation about Arturo's secret only happens before Arei intervenes. She does hear the tail end of it, which maybe means the killer decided to run a lap around the place and come back later once they saw Arei, but that... just does not make any sense to me. (So like, how would Arei have not caught someone else just eavesdropping in front of the infirmary? It's a sliding door without anything like a potted plant to hide behind). Basically, how does the killer know both that Eden has Arturo's secret and that Arei promised to do anything for Eden? I'll get to that later but I don't think that's a plot hole. I think this detail is actually extremely relevant and something Charles catches on to in his refutation of the crime.

It's also entirely possible that Eden's the killer and this is an irrelevant thing to bring up, but. We'll get to that later too. I wish I put in more than two seconds of thought before writing this.

Here I'd like to discuss the cliffhanger we were left on, aka Charles' refutation of the time. (Honestly, I don't even remember what time David was in the relaxation room, possibly rendering this entire write up moot but whatever...) Charles is an interesting character in a class trial because his perspective on the crime is going to be different from everyone else. Since he can't be looking at our strung up victim, he basically has to visualize the crime soon based on details orally told to him. In other words, he's less likely to make assumptions than even us as viewers. This is kind of awkward considering I just said he doesn't make assumptions but like. Consider, for a moment, what we've been assuming about this crime. So much of the 10th??? episode is based on the contents of the note. Now, I'm not going to say the note is completely irrelevant to the case. But why are we taking all the evidence left behind that the killer, who likely has no witnesses or at least has an accomplice that's helping them, at face value?

Why are we assuming that note isn't a fake piece of evidence, basically. Not in the sense that it's completely irrelevant, as I believe that note is going to be the killer's downfall ironically enough, but why are we assuming that Arei ever got that note at all? Who's to say that the killer didn't just write that note up after killing Arei, then tore it up and put in the trash so they'd have fewer people actually investigating the crime scene? It's an incredibly smart piece of misdirection actually, considering how good it was at breaking David's mind over the guilt he feels in "convincing" Arei to try to be a better person.

This is why I believe that there isn't a plot hole when it comes to the killer knowing both Arei's promise to Eden and that Eden has Arturo's secret. I believe that the crime never occurred at 7:30, sometimes either before or after that time, at the crime was a spontaneous one after a confrontation with Arei. If Arei divulged this information, it would explain a lot of things.

I acknowledge this is also a giant assumption that's probably wrong. Essentially, I'm imagining that Charles did what is kind of like a proof by contradiction(think the most common way of showing √2 is irrational) and he's putting all the evidence he knows together and thinking "if I assume this is wrong, do other things begin to make sense?" and if you think that the time is wrong, many other things about the case begin to fall into place.

I think a lot of the reason we take the note at face value is because of how straightforward the first trial was, and Min was under a lot of duress. Much of the evidence was extremely helpful at nailing her as the killer(the water especially) and I don't really consider the out of order sign to be fake evidence, since it made the light switch even more conspicuous. I was waiting for the reveal that Min gave the water to somebody only to find out that Min was the killer. Anyway, this is also why I don't think Eden or Arturo is the killer. Not in the sense that they have no motive, but like. If they were the killer, why on earth would you leave that note behind? Why wouldn't you eat the note cookie monster style or just flush it down the toilet? It's just paper. One of the key components of dr trials is trying to frame another person for your crime(like Min) because a "perfect crime" is essentially impossible in such a tight, cramped setting. Eden really has no reason to leave that behind, especially for a crime this good. It's just weird to me that you would set up this whole contraption(which i believe was done to give Arei the least amount of pain as possible because like. Why wouldn't you just bind her wrists and drown her in the relaxation room pond then? It saves you way more trouble than going fish scooping with the water. Death from spinal cord injuries generally??? cause near instant death) and then just assume "they're never gonna look through the trash" cuz like... okay... why even bother ripping it up then... why leave that there if you didn't want it to be found? It places too much suspicion on Eden.

That was a lot of yapping for what is essentially Charles' quote during the trial, "Are you simply saying you took the killer's Arei's words at face value?"

motives!! my favorite. (please pretend this is a good transition) i love thinking about how weirdly worded these are, and why is the mastermind so weirdly sympathetic to Xander? "Your family is dead and you deserve to feel bad about it you were a selfish little boy" essentially conveys the exact same thing and all the "boohoo, but it's not your fault" at the end (Xander is one of my favorite characters I'm just mean) is completely unnecessary in a motive. If you compare the wording of the motives, Xander's secret compared to Arturo's is like day and night. One absolves him of guilt, and the other places the blame on him. Sure, maybe the mm already knows Xander is dead so he's not gonna be tempted or whatever but there's still no reason for it to be so cozy.

Speaking of Xander's motive! I am someone that believes David is lying about receiving Xander's secret and that's Teruko's secret. A very unoriginal thought, considering Teruko straight up says Xander's secret is also missing, implicitly implying she doesn't believe David at all, but I'll explain why. I'm going to assume(lol) that all the names under the motives that have been revealed besides Xander's are correct. Too much mental gymnastics otherwise. So we have Teruko, Hu, Veronika, Levi, and Min. Despite what I said earlier, all the secrets are very carefully worded. Particularly, the secret talks about parents and siblings. Parents, as in two or more parents. Siblings, as in two or more. Let's knock off each candidate. Teruko only mentions knowing of an (older??? maybe i hallucinated this detail) brother. Why would she feel any guilt over any other siblings she maybe has? Next, Levi. I think in like episode 1, Levi mentions only his mother and brothers. So he's got the siblings part, but no two more parents. Min's parents I think??? Were probably implicitly implied to be alive in her bonus episode, at least before entering Hope's Peak. Hu and Veronika... ok I've got nothing other than "I think they have each other's secret."(Veronika's secret is very well foreshadowed I think and so is Hu's) That's not an argument at all but just roll with it.

So now. Whose motive did Arei get?

Ok this is not an original thought at all either. I think it's Levi's. There are plenty of other posts floating around this website and Twitter about Levi's suspicious behavior during the trial, the whole scene with him and Eden during episode 1, his weirdly violent tendencies, Arei glaring at him in initial motive giveaway, go look for those instead. They're much better written and much more concise and they deserve your support. If he didn't want Arei to suffer, if this murder was something triggered(I've noticed there are some parallels to the structure of the first dr game), this whole neck breaking thing makes way more sense.

He's also probably the only one that could knock Arei out quickly before she screamed without the use of turpentineagain^tm. If the killer used turpentine again I've got nothing against that either, it just makes Ace more suspicious.

I didn't know where to place this, and I know this thing is getting too long, but Hu is also very suspicious due to the wire used by Nico on Ace probably being hers. I've also got nothing for that other than "I think her arc has too much setup to blow up this early." Same with Ace.

anyway here's who i think is the most likely culprit

1 Levi

2 J/Ace

3 Hu/Whit

4 Eden/David

5 everyone else

when chapter 2 is over if i've left the fandom for some reason and even if i'm still here(probably) you are all allowed to send me pictures of clowns when I'm inevitably proven wrong. permission granted to be a little mean

#drdt #danganronpa despair time #drdt ch2 speculation #drdt ch2 #levi fontana #arei nageishi #eden tobisa #hu jing #xander matthews #ace markey #that's all the very important ones here i think...#this thing is too long sorry #r.rush reference

23 notes · View notes

twig-tea · 7 months

Text

Let's Talk about Cheum

I've had multiple Cheum posts in my drafts since at least episode 6, and the main reason why I haven't posted them is because I keep waiting for the show to give me more. There have been some great posts reflecting on her character this week, so I thought I'd give it a try anyway right before the finale this weekend.

@waitmyturtles laid out her thoughts on Cheum here and this was followed up on with some excellent context by @ctl-yuejie re: the split in the audience around their reception of Cheum.

@my-rose-tinted-glasses tied the way that folks seem to want to iterpret Cheum's character to the trailer, which was an interesting take I hadn't considered! I like it.

I've been pushing back on Cheum being the voice of the audience or the only character who has it together for the entire time we've been watching this show [one of the places I've done this most explicitly was in my scene-by-scene breakdown of ep6]. Nothing in the actual show, to me, encourages us to see Cheum as the one who 'has it together'. She gets sloppy drunk out of the gate in ep1; she's rude, she's catty, she seems like a party girl. She's kind of mean about her girlfriend's films behind her back, she constantly insults Boston, Ray, and Mew in subtle ways, she supports Top as a "good candidate" for Mew even when we all in the audience know that he's a player, and even after she knows he betrayed Mew's trust (we can debate over whether it was "cheating", this is how Mew saw it and how Top knew he would see it); she says she's tried to help Ray in the past but we only see her enable Ray's alcoholism--in other words, I have been baffled this entire time why anyone would see her character as the voice we're supposed to trust as a reliable narrator or moral voice of the show, when the audience has enough information to know she's very often wrong. I said after episode 10, in which Cheum accused Boston of assaulting her brother despite her knowledge of Boston's character and the fact that the photos did not support Atom's story, and with the audience knowing she's in the wrong, that I was so thankful this would have to be the nail in the coffin of the theory that Cheum is supposed to be the "voice of the audience" or the "correct" one in the show, and I am aghast that this still seems not to be the case.

In my post about Cheum after ep 10, I said:

When Cheum realizes that Atom lied, though, if she just shrugs it off the way she did Top sleeping with Boston or Ray bringing drugs to the hostel...my rage will be fierce. Part of unconditional belief is holding your sibling to account if they abuse that trust.

But of course I wrote that because I suspected she would, because that's how her character's been to date. So my own previous post is evidence that Cheum has actually been legibly and predictably written, at least to an extent.

And while I like @my-rose-tinted-glasses' theory that maybe folks are being influenced by their memory of the trailer (in their post linked above), I also suspect that a lot of that comes from the audience bringing their sexism to their viewing experience, and assuming that a female character has to be The Voice of Morality if they are not an Evil Seductress, and cannot simply be as messy and nuanced as the other characters. And also maybe from the assumption that SOMEone in this show must be right, when I think that's a faulty assumption to make.

To be fair to the audience, a lot of what's going on with her is subtle, because the show to date has not often explicitly called her out on her bullshit. I remember being so happy to get the confirmation that she knew Ray was in love with Mew this whole time (during the big blow-up at Yolo bar) for example, because it confirmed what I had thought: that she was not oblivious, she intentionally was not acknowledging the tension between them in order to keep harmony within the group. But I would not necessarily expect everyone watching to put that together, especially not as a reveal in the middle of that dramatic scene where so much else was going on.

Cheum is, like @wen-kexing-apologist said in the fantastic post about hypocrisy, just as young as her friends, and just as flawed. She's a bit of a nag, a bit of a party girl, a bit of a people-pleaser, and a bit of a selfish 20something. But so many viewers are refusing to see her that way, and I don't think that's all on the show. And none of this makes me hate her. She's actually the character I relate to most (I know I said I'd be mad at her for not holding Atom to account, and I am, but I don't hate her for it).

Knowing to pay more attention to the rudeness of her language has helped me with this too, because I was looking for a lovable personality trait, and I think @ctl-yuejie's point (linked above) is a great theory as to what's missing for the English-speaking audience. The difference between an asshole character I hate and an asshole character I love is often (a) intention and (b) eschewing social/societal expectations (as opposed to being an asshole in order to meet societal expectations). I don't think we are given enough about Cheum to tell much of the former (though she says she cares, and I do believe her to some extent, I just think she's also blind to how selfish she often is); but knowing she has been doing the latter helps me connect with her in ways I may have been struggling to before.

That being said, as I hinted at above, I do still agree with a lot of what folks have been saying, in that I think she has been under-written, because what I don't have for Cheum (in the same way that I don't have this for Top) is any sense of what motivates her, whether she really does love her girlfriend or she's just riding out the relationship she's in, how much work she's actually doing at the hostel (we see her work the party, but otherwise it's just implied that she's the one doing all the work on the ground, but we never get to see it and in a show full of unreliable narrators, it's hard to know what's true); and how much she really cares about these friends of hers, since most of what we see is her saying she's a good friend but not actually doing things that a good friend would do (or doing things a good friend would not do, like inviting the ex you're still mad at to the party, or yelling at her friend as he's being arrested, or listening to his explanation after he's been accused of a crime). We don't even really know why she wanted the hostel project to be a thing to begin with, or why she cares enough to keep working on it.

I'd like to give the show the benefit of the doubt and say that could be intentional; Cheum is a bit of a fringe member of the group; she doesn't hang out with them with her girlfriend that often, so she's not always around, and she's clearly not best friends with any of the three others. She's who people go to in order to vent and decompress after something happens, and so most of the time we see her, she's helping someone else process their emotions, usually with an eye to reconciliation--though again, the advice she gives is often not good lol. She gets the most mad when someone does something that disrupts the harmony of the group, which is one of the reasons why I read her as the peacekeeper in the group, or the "link" as her name means in Thai I think, that holds them together. Ironically it's her who severs the group in the way that's most permanent to date, by kicking Boston out of the project. But if this is what they were doing with her character, keeping her as the solder rather than a member of the chain (apologies for this belaboured metaphor), I don't know that it was successful; as always gotta wait to the end to be sure.

In the final episode, I would love to get a peek into the core of who Cheum is, or alternatively, Cheum herself saying she feels lost and unsure of who she is. I would also love for someone to point out Cheum's bullshit to her face so that more people understand that what she says is not the moral backbone of the show, though I'm trying to let go of that part of me that wants everyone to get it with this show because I know that's just not possible (and thanks to all of the excellent previous conversations we've had around that). It would be an exciting reversal, and very in character, if Cheum makes Atom's lie and her subsequent banishment of Boston all about her, and then someone calls her on that, for example. And I'd also like more Cheum and April together on screen because they are very aesthetically pleasing and I am a simple creature.

Also just to say, I am hesitant to chalk up Cheum's character having gaps as a 'men writing women' situation because Yo is given the grace to be a full character in fewer scenes than Cheum; also Top as a character suffers from the same problem. So I think this is uneven writing, rather than sexist writing. But I'm open to debating it (and it's not something that we'll ever necessarily know for sure).

#only friends the series #only friends meta #only friends #ofts meta #ofts #long post #I feel like I know who Cheum is because I relate to her #but how much of that is what I'm bringing to the show vs what the show is actually offering?#this is the same question I had about Top #and the fact that I'm not certain about either of them is I think evidence that the writing is lacking for these two characters

85 notes · View notes

kiingfluffybuns · 3 months

Text

in another episode of Burns talking about TGED without reading the novel and only focusing on the webtoon as source material

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can we talk for a moment about Kim Suho and his Best Friend whose name I do not know (if it was mentioned before, pls lemme know)??

Now, I tend to focus a lot on the imagery of the narrative, like I mentioned before, since in the webtoon we do not have literal text to describe actual scenes, it has pushed to take its liberties on how it develops.

We have seen it on the mayor differences between N!Javier and W!Javier. (I was told.)

With that being said, my current theory in the matter is that Kim Suho is NOT a reliable narrator.

What do I mean with that?

SPOILERS,

(I will not post screenshots bc of spoilers)

In today's CH, we begin with a flashback of Kim Suho meeting w his rich Best Friend who he invites to the bath-house.

Now, Suho mentioned before on a previous flashback that his Best Friend invites him to eat out a lot just for the mere satisfaction of showing off his money. And while it's absolutely hilarious to think so, I do believe it wasn't the case.

In this new memory, Best Friend offers him the service for free, shaking Suho a lot, he questions him and the replies he gets are pretty simple, 'my mom owns the place', 'I'm helping her today', but all of that while he's making a very wicked smile.

This gave me the realization that all of this sequence is strictly within Suho's POV, which we can interpret the whole interaction was actually twisted to fit his narrative.

There's a high chance that Best Friend is doing all of these things out of real kindness and bc he does care for Suho.

But bc he refuses to believe ppl does things out of nowhere (like himself), he is convinced that he's being mocked.

For Suho, it has to be that way, he can only receive any kind of help as long as there's a 'catch', just the same way he gives help.

It also makes him upset to understand that his Best Friend knows his schedule well enough to show up at the proper time to ask him to hang out. Which in retrospect, is not that weird.

With time we all get to know when friends/family get off and on to work. It's not rocket science. But bc Suho is not making that same effort for his Best Friend, he assumes that that's the norm.

Why is he doing all of these things? Why does he know when he's free? How does he know he needs to relax?

Bc those are normal things to know of ppl one's close to.

But for Suho, he doesn't take that as relevant to give effort to. So much that he doesn't understand the simpler answers to those questions because he, himself, wouldn't answer them normally. They have to be negative.

Now, this made me believe that he's not being properly truthful with these memories, since he's convinced that all of these 'kind' actions were made w the idea of being mocked by.

After all, regardless of what was the memory, it's extremely normal that ppl will retell a story to fit their narrative.

In this case, that Best Friend just wanted to be entertained with Suho's struggles.

Now, this doesn't seems to happen when it comes to Javier, and the answer I came up for that might be a bit painful. Unconsciously, Suho probably still sees Javier as a fictional character and not a real person. So to give him effort doesn't seems wasteful since he's not 'real'

After all, this story falls into the same gender as Isekai, 'escapism'. So Suho wouldn't have a problem to blend and care for the new ppl around him bc they are not real. They are part of his escapism. Ofc I'm sure that is changing bc he's now seeing the family and home as his. It's just matter of time when he understands that he's actually building proper interpersonal relationships.

That's all I have for now, good night.

ps, if you don't agree, just block me and move on LMFAO.

#the greatest estate developer #tged #spoilers #tged spoilers #lloyd frontera #kim suho #character analysis #analysis #burnstalk

32 notes · View notes

bestworstcase · 1 month

Text

the fanon that cinder Does Not Know Anything is really just. kind of funny. i do think—among people who’ve picked up what the narrative is putting down with her—it’s partly a reflex to ‘soften’ her in anticipation of the villain -> hero arc by abrogating her agency: of course if she knew the truth about salem, she wouldn’t do these terrible things. of course she’s only salem’s misguided, mindless little puppet. it makes the possibility of a turnaround more palatable.

but it requires cinder to be an idiot, which she demonstrably isn’t.

if hazel and watts are informed about and have prior experience dealing with silver-eyed adversaries, and speak openly about this without rebuke or intervention from salem, then how likely is it really that cinder knew nothing? how likely is it that, somehow, she still knows nothing after experiencing the glare firsthand?

similarly the assumption among people who think summer has been hounded always seems to be that cinder doesn’t know… but salem made not the slightest effort to hide the hound from her and, vague on the details or not, confirmed that the hound was unusual—an experiment—when cinder asked. if summer is alive as some sort of hound-like being, why would salem take pains to hide her from cinder, but not the hound?

if cinder doesn’t know salem’s plans, why does salem speak to her like cinder is informed? the answer is that of course salem is lying, but the problem with that is salem has been remarkably consistent across millions of years about envisioning a new world, in some form or another, and if that’s still the case then she’s telling cinder the truth. do we trust what ozpin says while he’s expressly trying to scare hazel into betraying her? is tyrian a reliable narrator?

“you’re free to speak your mind,” salem says, and then answers the questions cinder asks. in a roundabout way, true, but her meaning is not difficult to piece together.

“your newfound strength brings with it a crippling weakness” + “you will have what i promised you, but remember that it comes with a cost” + “there’s only so much i can do to aid you”—if this is salem trying to hold cinder under her thumb by making cinder feel weak and worthless and desperate for power only salem can give her, then salem is straight up a terrible manipulator. “you can have the carrot but bear in mind that it’s poisoned. oh, and don’t depend on me, i can’t help you.”

if she’s dangling the maiden powers to keep cinder on a leash, why does she tell cinder repeatedly to be cautious of them? this power you’ve asked me to give to you will weaken you and open you to greater harm. remember what it cost you last time. be careful.

like either:

salem is a complete idiot who doesn’t grasp that undermining cinder’s desire for the maiden power will weaken her hold over cinder, and cinder is stupid enough to be fooled anyway; or

salem truly believes that killing maidens or gaining more magic will put cinder in greater danger, and she gives cinder an honest warning because she wants cinder to be cautious.

and this is true of most things salem says to cinder; if one presumes that the story is well-written, which it is, then it usually makes more sense to interpret what salem says as truthful, if vague, and presume cinder is generally better-informed on salem’s plans than the audience is.

21 notes · View notes

lumberjerk · 2 years

Text

This is my big "what the fuck is going on with Swatch and Spamton" post. It's a little long (sorry). In the game, Swatch implies that Spamton imitated him, specifically as part of his plan to gain access to the basement and take the NEO robot.

Swatch also shows that he isn't free to divulge details about these things and tries to misdirect and change the subject a few times, after accidentally revealing too much.

Swatch's use of the word "suitable" is also interesting to me, but I might make a separate post about that

When spoken to after the battle with Spamton NEO, Swatch tells a little more of his side of the story.

Even though the NEO robot was unused "trash" Swatch seems filled with regret over its existence and its wasted potential with the line "...but, in the end, nothing ever came of it."

It's somewhat reminiscent of the regret in Spamton's final monologue takes before he turns into Dealmaker: "It seems after all I couldn't be anything more than a simple puppet."

Swatch also reveals that he is aware of some aspects of Spamton's plans, his "twisted dreams."

How much does Swatch know about what happened to him? How much did Spamton tell him about what was happening to him before he was evicted? This is something I would be very interested to know.

Swatch's shop dialogue seems to imply Swatch feels used by Spamton. Swatch was fooled into thinking Spamton was trying to be his friend, got close to him to learn about the mansion, Queen, and the robot, and then tried to steal it. (And later succeeded.) Swatch's rare use of exclamation in "...that crooked salesman!" highlights his vexation.

This is easy to accept at face value since its in line with Spamton's desperate motivation to be uploaded into the NEO robot in-game, HOWEVER, the sweepstakes Q&A really shook things up because from Spamton's perspective things happened quite differently...

Spamton seemed offended or confused (or both) at the suggestion that his change of style was part of his scheming. Spamton saying that Swatch stole HIS look, later clarifying that he "stole it back" from him, implies that maybe Swatch didn't always dress in black and white, or that both of them dressed similarly for a while on purpose, but changed back at some point after disassociating from one another. This isn't to say that Spamton did not at one time try to disguise himself as Swatch, but that there's more complexity to the origin of their monochrome look than meets the eye.

Spamton's comment also reveals that he considered Swatch to be a close friend and confidant when he lived in the mansion, who listened to him and comforted him, but Swatch's loyalty to Queen strained their relationship when his status fell and he was eventually evicted. This contrasts with Swatch's view expressed to Kris, that Spamton was merely using him as a means to an end. Swatch's own line "to think he was once a valued customer..." is even referenced in Spamton's reply, "to think he once pretended to be my friend," (etc)

Spamtons response is so interesting because it casts doubt on the reliability of Swatch's in-game dialogue. Swatch and Spamton seem to be operating on two different versions of what happened. It's very hard to say who the more reliable narrator is. Spamton often exaggerates and his meaning is sometimes obfuscated due to his glitches, but Swatch is being crushed under 300 layers of Forced Professionalism.

Swatch thinks Spamton was faking their friendship for selfish gain, while Spamton thinks Swatch was faking their friendship because he failed to prove his loyalty to Spamton as his friend was stronger than his loyalty to Queen (which is a lot to expect from a BUTLER, but nevertheless...), noting that "in the end" he only listens to her. From Spamton's perspective, before his elite status changed, his friendship was real.

'Easels' is likely a reference to Swatch, since an easel holds a canvas (in Swatch's case, a digital canvas). CRT's could either be a reference to Queen or Tenna since both non-modern monitors and televisions use cathode-ray tubes, but its worth noting that he says Easels first.

Swatch repeatedly expresses reluctant compliance and exasperation with Queen's many and unusual requests in his shop dialogue, so his sense of duty to her is very strong, despite his weariness with her. Post Chapter 2, though, this isn't something Swatch needs to worry about, since she isn't a ruling Queen anymore. She's just Queen.

I will be very interested in seeing how Swatch's character develops as more Deltarune chapters are released. I don't know if he and Spamton will be able to become friends again or to reconcile post-chapter 2, but I would like to see more interactions and backstory reveal regarding these two in the future, especially considering the Q&A's suggestion that there is an unresolved misunderstanding between them. They share a lot of parallels such as: inability to act freely, not being able to speak directly, wasted potential/ruined dreams, and old regrets, aside from their similar monochrome + limited color designs. both spamton and swatch stand out physically from their peers of the same species. spamton is white while the other addisons are colorful. swatchlings change color like mood rings, but swatch is not shown to do this. not to mention both characters are shorter than their peers, which makes me hope that their connection will continue to remain relevant. There's certainly more that I could say, but I'll leave it here for now. These are mostly the things I wanted to cover that have been swirling around in my mind since the Q&A lore reveal.

#deltarune #spamton #swatch #swatchton #im sorry if this seems like im reading too much into nothing but my brain is like a trained bloodhound for subtext so

365 notes · View notes

taralen · 7 months

Text

🎆HOT TAKE: Jevil was never a sane or good person. His true nature was merely exposed by the "strange someone."

(A theory by an actual insane person.)

Although this is the first time I am addressing Jevil on this blog, I feel it is worth analyzing his character due to his parallel yet vastly different experiences to Spamton's. He is very interesting, and I like him for different reasons, but I can't deny that his actions make him less sympathetic as a person.

In-game, Seam, who was once friends with Jevil, describes him as having "gone mad" after talking to a "strange someone." Fans have taken this as a reliable narrative since it's coming from a presumably old but wise figure who was once close to Jevil. However, allow me to introduce these two concepts:

The Unreliable Narrator Perhaps within Toby's intentions, Seam is portrayed as an old yet wise figure, almost like a wizard. Just because a character appears to fulfill an archetype does not mean that the character is actually that archetype.

Cognitive Bias It is a well-known fact that people are willing to see the best in others who we consider to be friends, family, or lovers. Seam thinking Jevil had "gone mad" was likely due to Jevil never expressing his worst antisocial traits openly before talking to a "strange someone."

Seam also describes Jevil as always being into games, which surprises no one given his jester themes and design. Pranksters can be mean-spirited, and in the case of his implied interactions with Spamton, this is very evident. Spamton describes him as only being into "games," and how no matter what he did (even cheating), he could not beat him. This reference is never in-game, but we can still apply it to our understanding of Jevil's character since it was part of a canon Q&A. His implied coulrophobia and disdain for clowns can either be seen as a meta-commentary and joke about the Deltarune fandom's love for secret bosses or an excellent hint of how mean-spirited and unhinged Jevil really is. Someone doesn't develop a phobia from just one bad game unless that interaction was very uncomfortable to the point where it made Spamton feel threatened (possibly for his life). (Also, I am aware some people say they are exes. Given the lack of substantial evidence of this in-game or in the Q&A, I think it's safer to say that the "ketchup kids" part merely references a meme and shouldn't be considered anything substantial for analysis.)

Jevil was already showing signs of someone with antisocial traits, particularly among individuals with Cluster B personality disorders. He also falls under the category of Personality Type B (unrelated to Cluster B personality disorders) because of his lack of urgency. We can summarize him with these hallmark antisocial traits:

Lacking remorse for actions.

General dearth of empathy.

Grandiose Self-Worth (I CAN DO ANYTHING)

Need for stimulation and prone to boredom (which is why his solitary confinement was awful for him.)

Lying and manipulative (tricks the fun gang into breaking him out of jail only to try and kill them afterward. He doesn't even want Kris or Susie's souls. He just wants to have "fun.")

Lack of any long-term goals (he merely exists for games.)

Lack of value for other's lives (he finds the idea of murdering teenagers as an exciting game.)

Blasé attitude about life. Essentially, he is doing whatever the hell he wants without fear of consequences.

Notice the recurring theme of "games." In this case, a "game" to Jevil means whatever he wants it to mean. A game for him might mean torture for another person. His bullet patterns also exemplify this. They are aggressive, cluttered, and have (fittingly) chaotic patterns. Spamton's, by comparison, are structured and not as dense, showing his restrained need to kill the party to achieve his goals (particularly with Kris.) Also, notably, Jevil never considers the party "friends" by the end of the battle, regardless if you choose the ACT or FIGHT options of beating him. If you pick the ACT option, he goes dormant as a tail, but in the FIGHT version, he stays active as the Devilsknife and shows enthusiasm about being used as a weapon (presumably) to harm others.

And here's the kicker of all this: these traits are seldom learned but are inherent to some individuals, particularly those who fall closer to psychopathy than sociopathy.

Psychopaths have strong genetic predispositions, meaning they are born that way. While there are many psychopaths who never go on to become mass murderers, it takes a significant amount of social pressure and understanding for them to realize their actions will get them into trouble.

Prior to speaking to that "strange someone," Jevil was likely held back by his perceived notions of governance and law in the Card Kingdom. As the court jester, he probably believed he could express his desire to mess with others because of his assigned role. Being the "fool" of the court, he must have made the Card Kings laugh at his expense, and for most of his existence, he was probably okay with this since jesters, in our reality, were known to make some pretty nasty jokes about royals only for it to all be laughed off. Playing games with Seam was just an added bonus, and Seam likely saw good in him that no one else did. However, Jevil learned that he could do whatever the hell he wanted with (perceived) zero consequences, and he ran with it.

Any goodwill he had with Seam or the Card Kings was dropped the instant he knew he could do anything he desired. This is not behavior from someone who is even remotely sane. The "strange someone" told him what he wanted to hear. Now, the jokes were no longer just jokes. Seam mentions Jevil saying things that don't make sense, but there is a shadow of doubt that this is the only reason he was locked away. Considering his interactions with the main party, he may have attempted to kill the Card Kings, hence why he was imprisoned by Seam, the only person, as Court Magician, who could match his strength.

This ties back to my initial arguments about Seam's unreliable narrative and cognitive bias. Seam saw Jevil as sane and playful, whereas the "strange someone" knew Jevil wanted to unleash his inner thirst for more dangerous games. These needs were always there, he just needed someone to tell him he could do them.

☠️

This is a bit of an aside, but I recommend anyone who likes Jevil to read Edgar Allan Poe's short story, Hop-Frog. It's about a diminutive jester whose attitude closely mirrors Jevil's, only without a Seam to hold that jester back. Honestly, Hop-Frog was the first thing that popped into my head after beating Jevil. It's definitely worth a read (or listen if you can't read it.)

Like with my Spamton sanity theory, I hope my Jevil analysis and insight as someone with life-long mental health problems can help others see this character in a way that may be enlightening or interesting.

💜

#deltarune #deltarune analysis #deltarune theory #deltarune chapter 1 #jevil #mental instability #mental illness

42 notes · View notes