#tsats crit

[aroaceleovaldez]

It's honestly wild to me that ToA went through so much trouble to emphasize the fact that Will did not magically fix all of Nico's problems and was explicitly not Nico's only doctor.

Only for TSATS to have Will fix all of Nico's problems and have Nico be entirely reliant on him the entire book and literally helpless without him and LITERALLY have Nico's problems be magically removed.

#pjo #riordanverse #tsats crit #nico di angelo #solangelo #it doesnt make any sense too cause. in HoO we KNOW Nico was fully capable of handling himself in Tartarus #we already knew he was explicitly on his own. we know he had it worse than Percy and Annabeth did #because we are explicitly told that Nico saw Tartarus' true nature the ENTIRE TIME versus Percy only getting a tiny half-glimpse of it once #and Percy acknowledges that he would not be able to withstand actually seeing Tartarus more than he did without just dying on the spot #and Nico was down there for as long as Percy and Annabeth at least. on his own. flying blind and explicitly having it worse. #so it doesnt make sense to totally retcon Nico's ENTIRE experiences with Tartarus to make him sopping wet and pathetic about it #needing to be helped and only being down there for twenty minutes and crying the whole time #and then all of the book he's literally functionally helpless without Will for some reason. despite being in his element. #could not get more in his element than being in the Underworld. my guy literally lives there. that's his HOUSE. that's his YARD. #and he's still just totally sopping wet and pathetic in Tartarus the second time around #like im sorry. no. we literally have previously established canon indicating this is absolutely not the case #that is not something you can retcon. that is an entire major event. it was not glossed over. #unless you are doing time travel and it's a canonical retcon a la Homestuck im sorry the events of TSATS just could never occur #(not to mention Damasen is just never acknowledged in TSATS and him and Bob were absorbed by Tartarus the god and ergo dead in HoH) #(so Bob and Damasen are like. *Gone* gone. they didn't just die to be reformed later they got ERASED.) #(and Nyx sure as hell isnt gonna be the one to have Bob trapped for whatever reason. definitely not cause she hates light/change/whatever) #(nyx is literally the mother/sister [depends on version - sometimes a mitosis situation] of the personification of day? and sky?) #(and FRIENDSHIP? and the nymphs of sunset? sometimes also CHEERFULNESS? and THOUGHTFULNESS? and old age) #(ah yes the mother of concepts such as love/friendship and aging and. day. would HATE [checks notes] love/friendship changing and light) #(she INVENTED THOSE) < anyways thank u for coming to my aside rant in the tags #in parenthesis to indicate this is an aside/tangent rant. anyways i have so many problems with this plot. it just DOESNT WORK #on NO LEVEL DOES IT WORK AT ALL WITH ESTABLISHED CANON

[readerwithsalt]

Rating the Differences In How People Reacted to Nico Saying He Would Not Be Accepted At Camp.

(Btw not a hater on percico, jasico, or solangelo in this post, this is just fact checking lol)

1. Percy

In Battle of the Labyrinth, Nico is 11 years old and Percy is 15. At the end of the book Nico asks:

“do you really think they’ll ever accept me here?”

Percy says nothing. An indication of - No.

Now a lot of people say that since Percy was only a child it’s not his fault that he didn’t try harder to make him stay, but this doesn’t make much sense.

Percy is a teenage camp counselor meant to teach and protect the younger halfbloods. He even calls himself a leader in the camp. In this book he’s gone overboard with trying to find Nico and feeling a large sense of protectiveness over him but doesn’t have that same energy with wanting him to stay at camp and allows this actual child who is eleven, to leave by himself because in Percy’s own words:

‘Nico would have to find his own dark path.’

I realize Nico didn’t feel welcome and brushed Percy off a bit but honestly If my godly parent didn’t have a cabin I wouldn’t have felt welcome either. Percy should’ve petitioned the whole “maybe we should care about other gods besides the olympians” much sooner.

Rating 3/10 (maybe a 4/10)

2. Jason

The first time Nico insinuates that he is not welcome at the camp, he and Jason are on a balcony. This is after Nico’s forced outing and Jason is feeling different towards Nico than previous chapters. He is more protective and feels like he understands Nico a little more.

Jason says things along the lines of:

“maybe you should take a chance and come out of the shadows, it’s better than hiding.”

Nico gets quiet and very angry at the word.

“hiding?” He whispers.

And Jason gets frightened but stands his ground, even when the floor starts cracking under Nico’s pissed off boots. Nico ends up brushing Jason off and says that he’s made his mind up and for the moment Jason decides to not push further.

Until Blood of Olympus. At the end of this book Nico has already decided to give camp another chance (though I’m not quite sure what the difference is between giving camp another chance in this book vs the last Olympian) but Jason runs up to him, ready to give him all he’s got one last time. Pretty much:

“I know you said your leaving but I’ve got to try one more time-“

“I’m staying”

So this proves Jason was not going to force Nico to stay nor tell him camp wouldn’t accept him. But he was still ready to keep this boy at camp since he felt a connection with him, and cared alot, enough to offer his father food and prayers to help Nico.

He didn’t want to stand by and say nothing, nor did he want to gaslight Nico and make him feel dumb for wanting to leave. He respected Nico a lot here, and didn’t make Nico feel like his past experiences meant absolutely nothing….

Rating 10/10

3. Will

When Nico insinuates to Will Solace that he’s leaving bc he won’t be accepted, this is the very first interaction between the pair in the 8 previous books ever.

At first Will is surprised and then gets very angry. He begins telling Nico angrily that no one had ever pushed him away (incorrect) and that he’d completely pushed himself away (not quite correct).

He says Nico would see people want to be his friend if he ‘got out of his brooding cloud’

To say that to Nico, the most traumatized and lonely character in the books, is a slap in the face to the readers and the character. In my opinion.

He gaslights Nico in such an extreme way without even knowing him that it surprised me that some people thought this was ‘cute’. People have pushed Nico away out of fear and stuff. We know this because we’ve been in their heads. We’ve heard the offhand comments.

Will either knows what people say about him (which makes his statement even more rude and hurtful) or he turns a blind eye and pretends not to (even worse).

Some readers say that he only said this because it was true or that Nico needed to hear it but this is simply not true. Will solace is pretty much saying what Jason was but in the worst way possible.

I would have given this character the benefit of the doubt and say ‘hey, maybe he’s grown to understand Nico more’ but after reading a passage in tsats this year, apparently Will still thinks the exact same thing proving he still doesn’t quite respect or understand Nicos past experiences even by the end of tsats and even though he’s been dating Nico about a year….

I wonder if it’s toxic positivity or something….

0/10

extra. Hazel.

I just put her in here because she understands Nicos situation the most. They are both children of the underworld and are treated differently at their camps. Although, Rome doesn’t quite have the gated fence community that camp halfblood does (or did). Rome treats Hazel more of like her own person rather than the child of so and so. Camp halfblood seems to see Nico as just his parentage most of the time. Same for the children of minor gods.

So I was pretty surprised at BOO for having Nico try AGAIN at this camp that doesn’t quite deserve him instead of going with his sister to a place that made him feel a bit more welcome (even if Rome calls children of Hades and Neptune bad luck).

Hazel is kind of out of the loop about Nico wanting to leave but let’s be honest, if Nico had really left Hazel would be the first to run after him and make him stay with her lol.

I do believe Nico should have stayed with his favorite person that he cares about the most instead of a random background character that tends to gaslight a bit and a camp that looks at him differently for things he can’t control.

100/10 bc it’s Hazel~

End.

(Also read this new comic about an alternate tsats au on @nove-thee its going to get good I can tell lol.)

#nico di angelo #tsats #solangelo #jasico #percico #hazel levesque #tsats spoilers #pjo hoo toa #tsats review #underworld siblings #cute #jason grace #percy jackson #tsats crit #sun and the star #nico and hazel #nico and jason #hate ooc #the sun and the star #pjo fandom #pjo series #hoo fandom #percy jackson fanart #nico di angelo fanart #book review #character analysis #book rant

[artemx746]

One thing i'm kind of miffed they left out of tsats is the fact that Nemesis' appearance changes depending on who's pov it is because she's supposed to look like the person you most want revenge on.

Like if you want me to believe that Nico's fatal flaw was holding grudges you could've shown it with this.

#the sun and the star #tsats crit #tsats #nico di angelo #nemesis (pjo) #Rick try not to forget your own lore challenge (impossible) #Rick actually read your own books challenge #rr crit

[rosesradio]

me: so by carefully crafting this plot over two novel-length fics, we can really see the intricacies of leo and nico’s relationship and how they would, hypothetically, develop feelings—

mark oshiro and rick riordan, sharing a joint and spinning around in office chairs: okay so what if.we do a fuckin. Coming Out picnic

#the controversy of it all has me laughing but also sighing deeply and staring out the window #richard care about gay people and don’t copy-paste wattpad tropes challenge #tsats crit #pjo

[once-upon-an-animation]

My massive TSATS Review

Hi everyone. In this post, I will sharing my thorough review of The Sun & The Stars by Rick Riordan and Mark Oshiro. I don’t normally do thorough book reviews, but since I’ve invested a lot of time, effort, and money into the hype for this book, I feel like a thorough book review is the best way to top off the journey. In this review, I’m going to be going over my honest feelings, thoughts, and opinions on the plot, the characters, and the writing quality. I took notes as I was reading, so certain things may be repeated/out of order/etc. In addition, I only took notes on the things that stood out to me. Therefore, if it’s not mentioned in this review, it means that it’s a detail that I felt neutral on/didn’t care about. 

When I do reviews, I like to share details about me that may contribute to my perspective on the book, so that anyone reading this review is aware of any biases I may have. So here are some of the opinions I held prior to starting the book:

I am not a Nico stan. I don’t hate Nico, and I actually enjoy his character quite a bit, but I wouldn’t call myself a stan. I don’t worship or feel particularly attached to his character. 

I am not a Solangelo shipper. I like Solangelo as a concept, but have been particularly unimpressed with its execution thus far, especially its introduction in Blood of Olympus (BoO). 

As of ToA, I’m not a big fan of Will’s canon personality. I acknowledge and accept it as canon, and I don’t like it. Ever since Will and Nico’s first interactions in BoO, the way Will talks to Nico about his experiences has always rubbed me the wrong way. 

Not that it’s anyone’s business, but I am currently unsure of my sexual/romantic orientations. Therefore, I don’t know how much this book means to me in terms of “representation”, and I’m not necessarily nuanced on all aspects of queer relationships. \

I did not like the preview. I read the preview of the first few chapters when it was released/leaked, which Mark shared that they wrote. And yeah…I was not a fan. The writing wasn’t bad, but it did feel a little jarring, which was to be expected. However, the characters, jokes, and overall flow felt off. And I’m sure everyone is tired of hearing this, but it absolutely gave off fanfiction vibes. I mean, TSATS is essentially canon fanfiction given that Mark is not the author of this franchise. 

Lastly, the following arguments: “This book isn’t for you; it’s for kids!”, “It’s a kid’s book, it’s supposed to be cringey/corny/silly!”, “If you don’t have anything nice to say about the book, just shut up!”, and “If you think anything was wrong with this book, you didn’t read it right!” do not mean anything to me. Just because I’m an adult doesn’t mean I’ve suddenly lost the capacity to evaluate the quality of children’s media. If adults are allowed to create children’s media, then adults should also be allowed to analyze them and critique them. In addition, if adults are allowed to review a book and say that it’s good, then adults should be allowed to review a book and say that it’s bad. Positive opinions are not inherently more valid or morally better than negative ones. Negative opinions have their place in art and literature consumption and people are allowed to dislike things and share why. If you cannot handle the possibility that people thought this book was bad, then book discussion is not an arena you should be in. Lastly, I do not hold children’s media or diverse media to lower standards. Children’s media can and should be of high quality. Diverse media can and should be of high quality. 

Whew, okay! Now that that’s out of the way, let’s get started! Warning: There will be spoilers! And this post will be very huge/long!!!

Plot

So the basic gist of the plot is that Nico has been hearing this voice calling out to him from Tartarus and he believes that it’s Bob, so he and Will journey down to Tartarus to go rescue him. They stop by the Jackson apartment to get some advice from Percabeth, they spend some time in the Underworld with the troglodytes, and then they face off with Nyx in Tartarus, who is holding Bob hostage. As far as the overall plot, I was very “meh” on the whole thing. I already disliked the premise because A) I think Rick’s version of Tartarus is kind of lame and he always insists on turning things into a joke down there, and B) It felt kind of repetitive with Percabeth’s journey. In addition, Will and Nico don’t actually reach Tartarus until more than halfway through the book, which is actually ridiculous. As a result, the first half of the book feels like such a massive drag and around Chapter 26, I kept wondering “Holy cow, when are they going to get to main destination!!?!??” 

Before anyone comes for me, I completely understand that this book is more character-focused than plot-focused. In some ways, this is a welcome change, but in other ways, it really makes certain portions of the book feel like a slog to get through, especially if you’re not a diehard Nico/Will/Solangelo stan and you were hoping for an exciting story outside of the characters. Just because you’re spending more time with the characters doesn’t mean that your story should be lagging. You’re supposed to weave the character development into the main plot. 

Anyway, here are my specific chapter notes, arranged in groups: 

Chapters 1-5

- So it seems like not much was changed between the preview I read and the final version of the story. I’m kind of disappointed about that because as previously stated, I didn’t really like the preview. 

- The Darth Vader joke: I thought the overall joke was cute, but I think it’s the way it was written that makes it land weirdly. I think it went on for just a tad too long. 

- I’m not really buying the idea that there are zero kids staying at CHB for the year aside from Nico and Will. I understand the explanation that the book gave, but I find it very unlikely that every single kid at CHB has a happy home to return to, especially given Annabeth’s and Leo’s storylines as examples. 

- On a positive note, I am happy to see Nico’s Italian heritage being a stronger part of his character. 

- I really enjoyed Nico’s dream sequence in the beginning chapters. It felt nice to see dreams used not just as a plot device but in a way that says more about the emotions of the character. I hope you’re taking notes, Uncle Rick! 

Chapters 6-10

- I have mixed feelings about the Percabeth cameo. On the one hand, I feel like it’s tradition to have them cameo in books now since they’re no longer main characters and people like having updates on them. I also think receiving their advice about Tartarus made sense. On the other hand, their advice was kind of shitty and not very useful. There were so many practical tips they could have given, such as certain enemies (ie. Nyx) or certain locations (ie. Hermes’ shrine) to look out for, and they just like…didn’t. It kind of kills me because Annabeth in particular is supposed to be the “smart” and “wise” character, but whenever she has an opportunity to actually do something wise and helpful, Rick dodges that shit like the plague. 

- Speaking of WiseGirl, Annabeth’s “Why you, Nico?” line pisses me off and feels like a really stupid question that she should know better than to ask. Unless there are details that I’m missing, Annabeth knows that Percy’s relationship with Bob is quite strained due to the fact that Percy never visited him and Nico being the one to visit is the main reason that Bob was willing to help. Why would it surprise her that Bob would call out to Nico instead of them? Is Nico not the one who actually formed a friendship with the guy? In addition, why should it even matter that Bob didn’t call out to them? It’s not like she and Percy would have actually gone, given how traumatized they are by Tartarus and how they’re trying to live peaceful lives. So again, what is the motivation for asking a rude question like this? Did she actually want to lead the rescue mission? Would a call from Bob that she may have ended up ignoring make her feel validated> Is she offended or jealous or something? Sorry, but this question annoyed me so much and I don’t understand why Annabeth felt like she needed to ask it given everything she knows about Bob and Nico. 

- I appreciate hearing Nico make some positive comments about Percy, especially since a lot of Nico/Solangelo stans insist that Percy is the Devil Incarnate. Hopefully, the fact that their favourite character doesn’t hate Percy as much as they do will inspire some of them to chill. 

Chapters 11-15

- The nightmares/visions during the encounter with Epiales were pretty well done. In fact, I wish some of Annabeth and Percy’s encounters in Tartarus had gone a little more like Will’s visions in this scene; having nightmares about their insecurities regarding each other and questioning their relationship. 

- The troglodyte scene was really dragging. A lot of the dialogue at the beginning of Chapter 14 felt stale and unnecessary. 

Chapters 16-20

- The Nyx encounter in the Chapter 17 flashback was really good, and is everything Nyx should have been in HoH. 

- Nico’s Tartarus recall was a little…underwhelming. Like the Nyx encounter was great, I just expected for more things to happen to him, like more monster encounters and stuff. 

Chapters 21-25

- The ‘story time’ about Nico asking Will out on a date irks me for multiple reasons. 1) So ever since Rick decided to be more upfront about tackling social justice/deeper relationship topics in his books, his writing has developed this preachy quality to it where it feels like he’s just lecturing his readers through the voice of the characters and hand-holds them through his exploration of relationship/queer topics. I hate when Rick does this because the writing is way too on-the-nose and the characters sound awkward and not really like themselves; they sound like someone outside of the story is talking to you. This first date story time reeks of that on-the-nose quality and I don’t like it. 2) I have doubts about whether asking Will out in front of the entire camp (or being the one to ask for a first date in general) is actually in character for Nico. I think Nico could have opened up more as the relationship progressed, but making the first move in the beginning seems more like it should be a Will thing. 3) I am so sorry, but I do not buy for a second that no demigod at CHB felt comfortable in their queerness before Nico came along. It’s a Greek myth camp, for crying out loud. Not only are a lot of the Greek myths and mythological figures hella queer (including some of the Olympians!!!) but some of these kids are also products of queer relationships (ie. Kayla Knowles). Not to mention, one of the biggest narrative themes of CHB is that it’s a place where demigods who have never felt quite at home in the mortal world can  establish a sense of belonging and not feel like they’re weird or unusual. Now, I understand that CHB has shown judgment towards certain things (like children of Hades), but that’s mostly because of Hades’ reputation and misunderstanding from myths. And like I said earlier, those same myths also include some queer relationships amongst some of its more beloved figures, so I don’t know that being non-cishet would have been viewed as weird or unusual at a place like CHB if they’re following the myths so closely. Sorry, this argument is kind of disorganized, but overall, CHB is a camp where kids have all kinds of experiences, powers, interests, family backgrounds, monster encounters and more. A girl who likes girls or a boy who likes boys is probably one of the least notable things that they’ve ever encountered, and I just have a hard time believing that the entire camp would be homophobic to the point where no one was comfortable with being out. 

- So I actually really like the idea of Persephone and Will interacting and talking about how to manage being in the Underworld. However, something about the dialogue in this scene felt…stale. I understood the message that was being sent, but the actual conversation itself felt a little bland. I’m also disappointed to see that Rick/Mark fell into that same pattern that anyone who writes about Persephone does where they try to romanticize things between Persephone and Hades, and make Demeter seem like a bad figure. Like gee, your mother was protective of you and got mad when you were kidnapped and raped against your will; what a terrible mother, huh? And just once, I would like to read a story where Persephone rightfully bears a little resentment towards Hades for dragging her into a marriage that she didn’t actually want afaik.  

Chapters 26-30

- Shout out to the narrative for gleefully reminding us that we are not yet in Tartarus as of Chapter 26, which is more than halfway through the book. Goodness gracious! 

- Will & Nico’s “argument” is…okay. I was hoping that it would be moreso about Will’s comments seeing as that’s been the biggest issue so far. 

- The infamous Lil’ Nas X reference…not only is it kind of random, but I’m surprised that it’s even in this book. Is the ‘Montero’ video actually appropriate for this book’s target audience? (And when I say ‘appropriate’, I’m not referring to the queer themes, I’m referring to the sexual stuff, like the lapdancing on Satan and whatnot.) 

Chapters 31-35

- We are on  Chapter 32 of a 51-chapter book with about 160 pages left, and the characters are just now arriving to their main destination. I’m so sorry, but that is such a silly writing decision that I can NOT take seriously. 

- I enjoyed the Solangelo argument  in chapter 34. Wish it had been a little longer. 

Chapters 36-40

- Ah, the infamous aeternae. When I went to Rick/Mark’s TSATS tour, Mark revealed that their first draft of this scene had initially been super serious and scary, but they eventually felt like they had written something too scary. Mark revealed that Rick’s “strategy” for handling a super scary scene was to “cut the tension” with a joke. And so, Mark took the scary aeternae scene and turned it into a joke by making the aeternae a pair of himbos. Words cannot describe how much I hate this. Why can’t scary things be allowed to stay scary? It’s Tartarus, my guy. It’s supposed to be the most frightening place a demigod can be. Why should any aspect of it be turned into a joke? The unnecessary humor messes with the tone of the story and ruins all the suspense and tension that’s been built up. It also makes Tartarus seem less intimidating than it should be. 

Chapters 41-45

- Words cannot describe how much I hate the implication that Nyx and Nico produced “children” together. Yes, I know they’re not real children, but I still hate the implication. It’s creepy. 

- Now going into this book, I knew damn well that Will wasn’t going to get left behind. I also knew Bob wasn’t likely to get left behind because having them go  on this rescue quest only for him to not make it out would be a little pointless. But the cocoa puff thing felt like such a cop-out. Like how convenient is it that Nyx brought these demons to life at the right time so that they were just oh-so conveniently available for Nico to sacrifice in the most in-your-face symbolism for letting go of his demons? 

Chapters 46-51

- Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Nico tell us in Heroes of Olympus (HoO) that Bianca tried for rebirth? What is she doing in Elysium?

- The dream scene with Nico, Hades, Bianca, and Maria was very sweet. Probably my favourite scene in the entire book. 

- “What an ingenious way of fulfilling the prophecy” Chiron says. Good job, Rick/Mark. Way to not-so-subtly pat yourselves on the back there! 

- Shout out to Shel from finally graduating from being a plot device/narrative tool to being something of an actual character (this is moreso shade at Rick). The fact that she’s Native like Piper is really nice. 

- Nico’s conversation with Piper is fine, but I don’t like the way it’s written. It’s another heaping pile of that on-the-nose, hand-holding, social-justice-lecture, talking-through-the-character style of writing that I don’t really like. Again, I have no issue with the topic at hand. But the characters do not sound like themselves. They sound like Rick talking to the audience. It’s weird, and I can almost guarantee that there was a better way to write this dialogue. 

- Kind of sad that Bob isn’t sticking around, but it’s cool that he’s heading west. Potential reunion with Percy? Hope so. Maybe he and Percy can talk and Percy can apologize/smooth out their relationship. 

Characters 

So in this section, I’m going to discuss the characters individually, and also Solaneglo’s relationship. I will obviously have the most to say about Nico/Will/Solangelo. In addition, I will only point out the things that stood out to me, and I will try not to repeat myself. So if this character section seems kind of short, it’s probably because my thoughts have been spread out in other sections of this review. 

Nico

Overall, I think I liked Nico’s character in this book. I liked that we got to learn a little more about his family relationships, his dreams, his solo time in Tartarus, and his perspective on certain characters and past events. However, his characterization did feel…off…from time to time. I think the reason why has less to do with TSATS in particular and more to do with how Rick has been handling Nico’s character ever since the end of BoO.  I think Rick was so insistent on giving Nico a healing/happy-ending romance as quickly as possible that he not only rushed through Solangelo’s introduction and glossed over their initial development, but he also rushed through Nico’s healing process. I feel like there are large chunks of Nico’s emotional healing that was skipped during all the time jumps between BoO/ToA and within ToA itself, and anything that’s told to us in TSATS can only be told in retrospect. As a result, Nico’s  joking/ flirting/ wisecrack nature in TSATS feels really sudden and maybe even OOC, because Rick never really showed us when and how Nico developed into this version of himself. To summarize, I believe this version of Nico could exist someday, but the transition needed to be longer, and more importantly, more of it needed to be shown to the reader. 

In addition, while we did learn a lot more about Nico, I feel like there were still major things that were missing. His relationship with Hazel was surprisingly absent from his thoughts, and Reyna was barely mentioned, if at all. This represents a larger issue I have with Rick Riordan where, as soon as a character becomes a couple with someone, he tends to shaft their non-romantic relationships in favour of the romance. Like how Grover and Sally lost a lot of narrative importance in Percy’s life in favour of Annabeth during HoO; I really hated that. 

Will

Like I mentioned at the beginning of this review, I came into TSATS not really liking Will and not really thinking that he’s the godsend boyfriend for Nico that the fandom likes to paint him as. I was hoping that TSATS would change my mind about Will, and while his character was improved for me in some ways, I think I walked away from this book still not really liking him that much. 

So Will’s arc was mostly about accepting the darkness within Nico, the world, and within himself instead of viewing it as something inherently bad/evil or something he has to fix. As a part of this arc, he spends a lot of time complaining about the Underworld/Tartarus and associated concepts (ie. death, darkness, misery, ghosts, etc.) during the quest. Look. I understand the whole thing about Will being a child of Apollo and therefore not really vibing with the Underworld/Tartarus well. I understood and actually enjoyed his fear to some extent. However, I have some thoughts about the nature of these complaints. First of all, Will is not a newbie demigod. According to him and some of his background that’s established in this same book, Will has been at CHB for a while now, and he has endured 3 major conflicts in which numerous friends and siblings died. Will has had more than a lifetime of exposure to death and misery, so I don’t understand why this quest is being treated like his first rodeo with death and misery. I can’t really say it’s OOC for him given how limited his characterization has been before this, but still, it doesn’t really align with the established facts we know about Will. The themes of death and sadness should not be new concepts to him, yet this book is acting like he has never been exposed to this stuff before, despite the fact that the narrative literally acknowledges that he’s been through this stuff before. Again, I’m totally fine with him fearing monsters and total darkness and stuff, but loss and grief are things he should be more than familiar with. In addition, the narrative goes so far to even throw in that Will likes true crime podcasts. Now, listening to podcasts and being in the Underworld/Tartarus are two very different experiences, yes. But I just find it odd that Will can tolerate media about murder/kidnappings/etc. But the death and misery associated with the Underworld has him shaking for some reason. 

I also find it odd that Will’s regard to Nico’s struggles with darkness, death, and misery is not always consistent. He can demonstrate the kind, empathetic, snd understanding nature of a healer when he needs to (ie. page 144 when Nico is about to start his Tartarus recall) but somehow he can’t see the insensitivity in the comments he keeps making about the Underworld? Again, it’s okay that Will doesn’t personally like the Underworld, but how is he not realizing how uncomfortable it must be for Nico to keep hearing all these complaints about concepts that he, as a son of Hades, is strongly associated with? On page 185, Will asks Nico yet another question about how he doesn’t find the ghosts disturbing. Nico explains that the Underworld is his second home and Will’s immediate response? “I could never live here.” Like look, this is a totally valid and understandable opinion for Will to have, but it’s also a dickish thing to respond to what Nico said, and the context in which it’s being said makes it frustrating. How and why is Will still acting surprised about what Nico is comfortable with? Nico is a son of Hades, for crying out loud! Him being comfortable with darkness, death, ghosts, and other associated things should NOT be a shock to anyone, let alone his own boyfriend of 6+ months. During the entire book, I couldn’t help but wonder why Will was even dating Nico in the first place if Nico’s domain made him this uncomfortable.

 I’m glad Will and Nico were able to talk about this and smooth things over at the end, but by the time this arc was resolved, my annoyance with Will had already been solidified.

Another component of WIll’s arc is that he felt like he was a burden to Nico on the quest because of how much he was struggling with the lack of light and the fact that he kept getting injured/tired. This is fine and I actually like this. What I thought was a little silly was Will forgetting to bring a weapon or something to fight with. Yes, I understand that Will’s unpreparedness was a  part of his arc, but while I fully understand his unpreparedness for the darkness/lack of light, him not bringing a weapon is very stupid, and the narrative acknowledging it doesn’t make it any less stupid. Again, Will is practically a veteran as far as demigod things go. How he could make such a silly mistake is beyond me.  You’re going into the most dangerous territory in the Greek myth world for demigods, and you didn’t think you should have something to protect yourself with? Seriously? And the worst part is that Nico/the narrative literally mentions that Will has been in three major conflicts so far, but from the way Rick and Mark wrote him at certain points in this book, you’d never be able to tell.

Solangelo (as a pair)

I mentioned at the beginning that I am not a Solangelo shipper, so all the romance in this book didn’t have me leaping for joy as it may have for others. Overall, I still like the concept of their relationship and the themes associated with it, but I’m still not a fan of the way they're being executed. Will’s character arc made things a little harder for me, and the fanfiction vibes of the book were not my cup of tea. I have a smattering of different thoughts about Solangelo in this book, so I’m going to jump from idea to idea. 

First, some of the romance/flirting/bantering did come off quite cheesy in a way that’s unusual in Rick’s better books (part of what gives TSATS fanfiction vibes).. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy that the two boys like each other and have fun together, but it started to feel excessive at some point. Like Will recalling how Percabeth said being cheesy helps, and then Nico responding “Lay it on me, Will. I’m your grilled cheese” (page 373) made me put the book down so I could take a break. And before anyone come for my neck saying “They’re teenagers, it’s supposed to be cringey”...I have read PLENTY of books involving teenagers in which the romance/humor managed to accommodate the age of the characters AND still be mature enough so that it didn’t feel corny. There are fun yet tasteful ways to handle teenage romance/teenage humor in books and it’s up to the authors to find a good balance, so please miss me with this argument. 

Lastly, this is going to sound rather bitchy, but I don’t want to hear the term “grumpy little ball of darkness” ever again. I know it was mostly a joke, but it was super corny the first time it was said, and it was corny every time after. 

Next up, the circumstances surrounding their first kiss…I don’t like it. I’m obviously not mad at the idea of Will trying to be a supportive companion to Nico in that moment. I’m more so annoyed at what this kiss represents in the larger context of the Riordanverse. To some extent in PJO and to full extent since HoO, Rick Riordan has developed a deeply irritating habit of using romance as the solution to the characters’ emotional conflicts, grief, and traumas. There are too many characters in this franchise whose running emotional issues are magically solved by romance and I hate it. I think it’s harmful messaging to be sending to Rick’s young and impressionable audience that romance is the healing antidote to all of life’s problems. Feeling unwanted and like you’re not sure where you belong because everyone and everything keeps changing on you?  Get a boyfriend! Feeling guilty about your past and like a 7th wheel amongst your friends? Get a girlfriend! Struggling with loss and grief and feeling like you’re always going to be alone? Get a boyfriend! Your ex just died in the midst of you trying to figure out your identity and you’re still in the grieving process? Get a girlfriend! It’s gotten sooo annoying at this point! Like no kids, getting into a romantic elationship will not solve all your problems. And viewing your significant other as the fixer-upper for your trauma is NOT actually a good thing, contrary to popular belief. Treating your romantic other as your only source of joy, hope, and happiness is a terrible approach to healing. Just once, I would like the kids in this franchise to work through their emotions in a way that doesn’t default to romance. Because should Will and Nico ever break up (not that they ever will, because according to Rick Riordan, most people find their soulmate as a teen), or something happens to Will, what will Nico do? Crumble? Fall apart? Waste away? 

This is part of why I felt like it was really important for Nico to heal PRIOR to engaging in a romance because things like the circumstances of their first kiss suggest a sort of dependence that he’s developing on Will for dealing with his grief and inner demons, and I just don’t agree that this is a healthy coping mechanism. Nico doesn’t deserve to be alone or feel alone, but he does need to learn how to heal and cope through his traumas on his own because using Will as his source of healing is not a good thing. It’s okay for Will to support him or give him advice, but Will should NOT be Nico’s primary source of hope and happiness; Nico should be Nico’s primary source of hope and happiness so that if anything ever happens to Will, Nico doesn’t break into pieces because he’s developed the necessary strength to move on and find happiness within his own self, independent of a romantic other. Romance should complement the happiness you’ve grown from and for yourself, not be the source of it. 

Next, Nico telling Will he loves him during the fall to Tartarus as a parallel to Annabeth whispering “I love you” to Percy is…not really something I like. I truly hate to compare a gay ship to a straight one, but let it be known that the critique that I’m about to give has nothing to do with Nico/Will being queer specifically, and more to do with the way they’ve been written. Anywho, with Percabeth, something about that “I love you” on their fall into Tartaurs felt more special given the long history of friendship that they had prior to their romantic one in the PJO series, and the fact that they had been separated so long just prior to the fall. The “I love you” between Nico and Will is sweet on a surface level, but the fact that it’s an obvious copy of Annabeth’s “I love you”, and the fact that we don’t have as much history with Solangelo as we did with Percabeth really takes away from the impact. I think this “I love you” would have held more power at the end of the book. For example, Will and Nico could finally have a discussion about all of Will’s struggles with darkness, and when Will finally accepts the darkness as a part of who Nico is (hopefully) and states that he loves Nico as he is, darkness included, we as readers can feel happy that Nico has found someone who accepts every part of him, even the parts that aren’t so pretty. Will then tells Nico that he loves him, a love that encompasses all of who Nico is, and Nico can say it back, accepting Will for all of who he is. All in all, I think the “i Love you” should have waited, and I don’t think it should have been a rehash of Percabeth’s moment; Solangelo should have gotten their own unique moment. 

Next, Will’s guilt over Octavian’s death and him calling Nico a murderer made me go back and reread the scene in BoO. I can understand and appreciate his guilt from a healer’s perspective, but him thinking Nico was a murderer as a deep hidden grievance is kind of funky. Yes, Nico saying that they couldn’t stop Octavian probably came off really poorly in that moment. But also…Nico wasn’t saying that because he was bent on seeing the guy die. Octavian chose suicide and no matter what Will/Nico did, Octavian would have fought to get on that onager. Viewing Nico as a murderer for this, even by mistake, feels a little…extreme. 

Lastly for this section, when Nico and Will finally had the talk about Will’s complaining, I liked the gist of the conversation, but I didn’t really like the conclusion that Will came to (or maybe it was the way it was written). Nico’s point was that death is amoral. Yes, it’s hard for the people who are still alive and left behind, but it isn’t an inherently evil process, and the place where the dead go isn’t inherently evil either. However, when Will reflects on this, he focuses on the entities that are alive/from the surface and are somehow thriving in the Underworld, which kind of misses the point. The takeaway shouldn’t be that there’s hope in the Underworld because of the living things that are present there. The takeaway should  be that death, darkness, grief, all have their importance and place in our world, and that things that are  associated with them aren’t inherently bad or evil. The Underworld doesn’t need to have life in it for it to be valuable. 

Miscellaneous

Here, I will talk about a bunch of characters who made important cameos, but weren’t present enough to have their own section. If there’s a character missing here, it’s because I had no significant thoughts on them. 

Percy: 

- I’m glad to see multiple characters acknowledge that Percy needs time off. 

- As sadistic as this might sound, I’m glad to hear that Percy is still having nightmares about Tartarus. I’ve always felt like Rick did a shoddy job of exploring the impact of Tartarus on Percy and Annabeth. This update on Percy doesn’t really make up for what could have been, but I’m glad to see the trauma being taken a little more seriously. 

Annabeth:

- I already shared my grievances about Annabeth in the plot section. 

The Troglodytes:

- I kind of like the Troglodytes, but their presence in this story felt a little…long, almost like they overstayed their welcome.

Dionysus:

- Mr. D feels off in this book, both at the beginning at the end. At first, I couldn’t really tell what it was, but by the end, I think I got it. So we all know that under Mr. D’s “I don’t give a shit about y’all” exterior, he actually kind of cares about the demigods. However, he’s always been subtle with it so that he never looks like he cares too much, and I don’t think this is something that he would suddenly change just for Nico, even as his pseudo-therapist. Unfortunately, the way he’s written in the book and his dialogue is a little over the top. His excitement towards Nico at the end especially feels OOC.

Nyx: 

- I like Nyx a lot better in this book than in HoH. She feels less like a bumbling idiot, and more like a truly scary entity, although I was not glad to see that little tourist skit return. I wish we had spent more time with her. 

Writing Style/Quality

So for the last section for this review, I’m going to speak specifically on the writing quality of this book; I’ll be critiquing certain writing decisions made by both Mark and Rick.This section is also a smattering of thoughts, so I’ll be jumping again. Here we go! 

First off, the overall formatting of the story was kind of weird and disjointed. For example, choosing to stick with Nico’s POV for the entire beginning, but then suddenly jumping between Will and Nico’s POV after the encounter with Epiales was giving me a little bit of a mental whiplash. I wish they would have stuck to one POV per chapter just to keep things more organized. The interspersing of the story time with Gorgyra was kind of weird too, especially after I learned that it was taking place at a point midway through the overall story. It’s clear that this part of the story mostly exists to establish the canon version of how Will and Nico developed feelings for each other and hooked up, but I think there were better ways of just weaving this into the main story rather than constantly pausing the main story to do this weird kindergarten story time thing. I mean, the main plot was already taking its sweet ass time, and the Gorgyra scenes made it feel worse. I think the Gorgyra thing should have just taken place at its chronological spot. Lastly, I think Nico’s solo Tartarus flashback would have worked better as an epilogue, like ´oh, this is how Nico’s last trip to Tartarus went and now this book is about how different his 2nd trip will now that he’s not alone and  Will here’ or something like that.

Next, for the writing specifically, I have mixed feelings about Mark’s contributions to the book. One thing I appreciate about Mark’s writing is the heavier emotional weight of things. I’ve always felt like Rick’s writing was too “Go! Go! Go!” all the time and that he never let the emotions of the plot he was writing sit and simmer within the characters, making the characters feel a little hollow at times. I like that Mark is dwelling a little longer on the emotional aspect of the story and isn’t rushing right through them. However, there are certain portions of the book where the language is just a little too flowery and philosophical rather than just like…getting to the main point. This probably contributed to how long it took for the characters to move on from certain scenes. Also, there were portions of the book where the sentences just felt kind of clumsy and awkward, like Mark knew that they needed to write something but wasn’t quite sure what to write. 

Moving on, the pop culture references are definitely a little much. Now, to be fair, pop cultural references are not new to the Riordanverse, but I reread the PJO/HoO/ToA series a little while ago, and I recently read the Kane Chronicles for the first time, and I don’t think the pop culture references in those series occur nearly as frequently as they do in certain portions of this book (ToA might be an exception, but I feel like Apollo’s/Lester’s close relationship with the performing arts makes it more acceptable). In addition, pop culture jokes are not the only way to make good jokes. One thing I really liked about the Kane Chronicles is how Rick often used the mythology/local culture/circumstances of the specific scene as the foundation for jokes, because these feel a lot more organic and natural to the story, and are actually funny, and I wish TSATS had leaned into this more. It also didn’t help TSATS that some of the references felt forced amidst the conversation being had (eg. Nico’s ‘Single Ladies’ joke on page 12. Will makes a comment about not having any monsters to slay, and Nico responds with a joke about making skeletons do a choreographed dance to ‘Single Ladies’. A joke about making skeletons dance felt like a weird response to a comment specifically about slaying monsters, and it didn’t really fit in with the conversation). In general, randomly mentioning things that your audience might be familiar with isn't really humor; the references have to make sense within the context of what’s happening. Puns, play-on-words, sarcastic/smartass comments have been used before in the Riordanverse and worked fine when they were written properly. For example, Will’s “Noble McSacrifice”comment on page 45 actually made me chuckle, as grown as I am. So yeah, Rick has done better jokes in past books, and the try-hard pop references in this book is another thing that made it feel like fanfiction. I cringed very very deeply when I read the “#OnBrand” joke. 

Lastly, I’ve already mentioned my thoughts on Rick’s on-the-nose writing. It’s like he doesn’t trust the audience to connect the dots anymore on certain themes and social justice issues, and that they need it spelled out for them in the most blatant and obvious way possible. Like yay for Rick for wanting to touch on important topics, but there’s a way to do this without sounding like you’re making a social justice lecture post on 2014 Tumblr. Find a way to weave these topics and lessons into the narrative so that you’re showing your readers the lesson rather than just telling them the lesson. 

Also, if you’re going to use the characters as mouth pieces for these things, it would be nice if the characters could actually sound like themselves rather than just a vehicle for what Rick wants to tell the audience. Like, I really hate how the characters are literally just stating and  explaining their character arcs to us, as if we didn’t just literally read the book and can see the arc for ourselves.

Overall Impression

I think this book is pretty mid. It’s not the awful trash that some people think it is, but it didn’t really meet the hype for me either, especially as a non-Solangelo shipper. Certain aspects of it were nice, but many aspects of it annoyed me, and my opinions on Will/Solangelo haven’t really changed. I give it 3 out 5 stars.

#tsats spoilers #tsats crit #the sun and the star #Nico di Angelo #Will solace #solangelo #anti solangelo #rick riordan #mark oshiro #tsats #tsats review

[drksanctuary]

I’m pretty sure I made it a New Year’s resolution to continue ignoring PJO Canon. I didn’t expect Rick to do the same tho. 😂😂😂 lmao.

#nico di angelo #tsats potential spoilers #tsats #tsats crit #pjo #hoo #riordanverse

[empress-poochiekins]

TSATS should have been about Calypso.

⚠️ spoiler warning ⚠️

the prophecy never names bob, just one who ‘despairs for refusing to remain.’ to refuse to remain would be to leave, but bob stayed in tartarus, for percy and annabeth.

it was talking about the way bob refused to remain as iapetus, but all i could think about was another titan who refused to remain. who left her prison. and who did the very thing nyx detests:

she changed.

calypso was perfectly placed at band camp, without any mythological protection, over the time nyx kidnapped a titan.

“there leave something of equal value behind” would have been the first moment when calypso wasn’t just another hero’s sacrifice.

something would have been sacrificed for her.

while i hate about her personality change between botl and hoh, i like to believe it was a trauma response. a wall of pain built up for protection.

we would have seen her and leo realise their relationship was built upon desperation. realise that they saw what they wanted to see, not who the other really was.

we would have seen her find a home. and with it, the safety to be herself again.

i will always love bob

but i just want our gentle, cottagecore titaness to come home.

#percy jackon and the olympians #percy jackson #heroes of olympus #trials of apollo #the sun and the star #tsats crit #tsats #pjo #pjoverse #riordanverse #rick riordan #calypso #calypso pjo

[percabeth4life]

Sometimes I remember that TSATS exists and I start to spiral.

TSATS my beloathed.

#anti tsats #tsats crit #idk what the official tag is for that rn #anyways the book makes me suffer #how does it take half the book to get to the main purpose #and I thought the start of TLT dragged on #anon asks #life answers

[ordon-pumpkin]

I finally read The Sun and The Star…. And uh…

Listen I LOVE Solangelo a lot. So it kinda sucks that I didn’t like the book overall. It wasn’t all bad. There were some truly amazing moments that I loved and I enjoyed a lot of the fluff and angst of their journey and relationship, don’t get me wrong.

But there are several things that make me dislike it as a whole.

The most glaring is that I feel like as a book that comes after Trials of Apollo it missed the mark completely. This book feels like it’s a fanfic written by someone who never finished the previous series. It’s strange. The lessons learned in ToA were heavy, impactful, and incredible. There are several things in TSATS that just do not make sense compared to ToA and how that series actually ended. Will implies (unless I missed something) a situation where Apollo never returned after his most recent battle which is just blatantly not true. Plus, Jason somehow went from someone who helped a god learn a valuable lesson, a hero who made a noble sacrifice, a death that had deep meaning to being written as “just another friend I (Nico) couldn’t save.” It seems like both Jason’s true impact and Apollo’s growth are thrown out the window for no real reason.

Which feels like two big slaps in the face to someone who loved the previous series.

This could have been fixed with a couple of short scenes or simply not implying things that contradicted ToA. It could have dove a little deeper into what had happened before. It just didn’t. Instead it went out of it’s way to feel disconnected. I have no idea why. It just makes the book feel like it doesn’t belong with the others.

I have a lot of issues with this book. Which makes me sad, because all of the potential in the world was there. Mostly it just felt really off. There are things I loved. Moments I really appreciated. They are just really overshadowed by the lack of cohesion from the past books to the point where it’s the first book of the mainline Greek based Riordanverse books that I don’t feel like I want to read again. I kinda want to pretend it just didn’t happen, which is a shame for the good parts of the book.

Oof.

#tsats crit #tsats #the sun and the star #the sun and the star critical #tsats critical #riordanverse #tsats spoilers #the sun and the star spoilers #ToA spoilers #trials of Apollo spoilers

[aroaceleovaldez]

im really not a fan of Rick's recent trend of recycling bits of his writing that got a good reaction the first time and acting as if that's a valid substitute for. actually bothering to write something original a second time around. It's clearly just there as a callback and nothing more.

It's "Nico's rage exploded" and "Percy's rage exploded" with the exact same paragraph formatting. It's CoTG having titles like "My Singing Makes Things Worse, and Everyone Is Totally Shocked" (reference to TLO, when Percy says he thinks his singing would cause an avalanche) or "Pretty Much the Best Good-Night Kiss Ever" (reference to TLO "Pretty much the best underwater kiss of all time") or any other number of near word-for-word references to the first series. It's Nico calling Percy "seaweed brain" in Un Natale Mezzosangue (when Percy says in TTC that anybody but Annabeth calling him that is a major offense). It's Nico and Will falling into Tartarus in TSATS word-for-word referencing Percy and Annabeth in House of Hades, despite it not making any sense for their characters (and otherwise being written as Percabeth 2™). It's the show making huge changes but keeping random "fan-favorite references" (mostly overusing "seaweed brain" and "wise girl" and emphasizing percabeth) only because they're popular in-jokes and considering that a faithful enough adaptation to market it heavily as such. It's lazy writing.

And it's a disservice to the series and to the audience, because it clearly shows Rick doesn't have original ideas anymore (though given all his writing is heavily derivative to begin with, it begs the question how much was original in the first place and how much he has difficulty when he doesn't have a structured mythological plot to work from) and that there is an expectation that the audience will just sit down and accept that behavior hook-line-and-sinker. Everything recently is clearly such lip-service to the audience, either in retcons that are overt speaking-to-camera acknowledgements of things he's been criticized on or wink-wink-nudge-nudges of community in-jokes that have no business in the actual text (see: over-use of ship names in canon). Especially since Rick tends to be about 5 years behind on the fandom uptake. It's just so disappointing to see.

#pjo #riordanverse #tsats crit #pjo tv crit #rr crit #< OH BOY A TRIPLE #MCGA's reference to Jason's concussions in the chapter titles is on thin ice but can stay for now #callbacks can work! in-jokes and references can work! see: Percy's dam joke in Son of Neptune #or Percy in the musical making the joke about his singing causing an avalanche as a reference to TLO #or any other number of references in the musical #but you need to know when they belong and when they ABSOLUTELY DO NOT #and when it's a fun nod and when it just feels like you're copying your own homework #a great example actually - i was recently reading an *excellent* fic by @vivitalks #and in it Jason uses the phrase ''you knock me out'' as a fun nod to Jason's ''you're a knock-out'' in TLH #that's a good little reference! that's how you do it! #a character who has already used one phrase uses a similar phrase. because theyre the type of person to say that phrase. #that's already been established. and it highlights something about their character that they return to that phrase #in that fic it highlights that Jason is a total dork especially when it comes to romance #Percy's ''dam'' joke reference in SoN works because it's only used once very briefly and it's very quickly brushed by #and it's literally Percy making a reference to his own past and acknowledging that he's doing that. it's his own in-joke! that's reasonable #it's not reasonable to expect FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE to have the EXACT SAME REACTION to FALLING INTO SUPERHELL #especially when they're established to all be EXTREMELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS with DIFFERENT DYNAMICS #long post //

[readerwithsalt]

Okay this is another random thing about tsats.

Y’all know how the camp is randomly empty (which is so non canon but still) and how in the Tower of Nero at the end we find out that Apollo cabin has three new members…

So let me just ask:

Where in the hell are Jerry, Grace, and Yan? 😭🤣

I know I did not dream these three kids up. Like? One of them is from Hong Kong and the only reason they are at camp is because it’s the only safe place?? And in the timeline of ToN to tsats they’ve only been at camp for about three weeks??

But they no longer exist in tsats?? Lol??

Please someone comment if they remember them.

(Also there are a bunch of orphans at camp who don’t have a mortal parent or are way too powerful to leave but now everyone can leave … because they want to? Lol 😂)

#nico di angelo #tsats #solangelo #tsats spoilers #hazel levesque #pjo hoo toa #underworld siblings #tsats review #cute #jason grace #pjo apollo #apollo #tsats fanart #tsats crit #trials of apollo #tower of nero #sun and the star #like omg #like why #disappeared #ooc #non canon #percy jackson #the sun and the star #chb #rick riordan #pjo fandom

[artemx746]

Okay so when I'm reading a book for the first time I don't really pay attention to most of the smaller sentences that don't seem important and just pay attention to important plot points and things I find cute.

I was rereading the scene in tsats where Nemesis helps Nico by giving him the pomegranate seeds for that Al + Nemesis fic im writing

"Nico closed his fingers around the pomegranate seeds, then tucked them away with the others he kept." - The sun and the star, chapter 16, page 156

I am about 90% convinced this book did not have any editors.

HOW DO YOU WRITE THIS IN A SINGLE SENTENCE?? DO THEY UNDERSTAND WHY THIS SCENE WAS WRITTEN IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHAT WAS THE POINT IN WRITING THIS IF YOU ARE JUST GOING TO SAY THIS????

I'll tell you what SHOULD have been the point of this scene. In an ideal world, this scene would have existed not only to give Nico the pomegranate seeds (of which he didn't already have) but to also give Nemesis more depth and intrigue as a character because she is extremely inconsistent and weird and that, to me, is what makes her so interesting. Nemesis, as a character, should be mysterious and intriguing and this could have been the perfect way to solidify it. Nemesis, the goddess who took her own sons eye just to change his fate for her own benefit, helping Nico with nothing being asked in return. That is such an interesting concept and honestly i hate how it was just brushed over because it adds so much more mystery to her and honestly more gods and goddesses should be allowed to be weird and mysterious.

#I’m not even going to mention her turning into Hades in this scene and then Zeus later in the book #That has been the one opinion that has stayed consistent since my first reading #Fuck that #tsats crit #nemesis (pjo) #nico di angelo #rr crit #Despite having been wanting more nemesis content I am slightly sad that she is in this book #This absolute train wreck of a book #The sun and the star #tsats

[moonlitlex]

also.... the fate of bob was not this open ended thing.

we're clearly to believe that bob small bob and damasen all perish in that fight. we did not need a whole book to resolve a plot point that was already resolved.

#anti rr #rr crit #tsats crit

[rosesradio]

So…I’ve not been a fan of Solangelo since BoO was first released. Is the TSATS crit, something new about the relationship that people don’t like? Bc I’ve always kinda thought it was forced shallow and it doesn’t seem TSATS has fixed that. Is that how you understand it (I haven’t read ToA Or TSATS ) but my understanding is their relationship hasn’t changed or really gotten any deeper have you read them? Is that an accurate assessment?

i think a lot of the crit has been about the writing, how mark oshiro’s writing isn’t quite fit for the pjo-verse (nothing against them though—i haven’t read their other works but i’m sure they’re a great writer). some of the other crit has been about their relationship, pointing out things like how they seemed to bicker a lot more than normal, will was too busy passing out every other chapter to have a fleshed-out character, and that part about when he asked “how to love” someone of the underworld was particularly bad to lots of people. i’ve even seen takes that it seemed like the writing came from an anti-solangelo fic, even following some of the same tropes from them. overall, how they got together and stayed together has been weird and forced.

i think a lot of the die-hard, likes-no-ship-but-solangelo shippers liked the book and their relationship simply because it was new content and some good things can be taken out of it (nothing against any shippers idc what you ship as long as you’re nice about it)

overall i think solangelo was written worse in this book, or at least there was a more glaring focus on their lacking relationship & its issues as you spend over 400 pages with them. i think they were forced from the start, but some of the cameos with them were pretty cute—their ‘significant annoyance’ bit towards the start of toa made me really happy as a 14 year old kid wanting to see some rep. i’ve also heard they were written better in toa, but i haven’t read past the first or second book of the series (yet) so i can’t back that take up

#because when i read it i’ll be subjected to caleo and i don’t want to do that to my mental health :-) #pjo #anti solangelo #(i don’t actually hate it i’m just critical—) #tsats spoilers #tsats crit #rose’s asks

[leovaldezdefender]

“if you don’t like tsats you’re homophobic” is the most hilarious strawman argument i’ve ever seen. you’re resorting to that. the homophobia card. in the gay people greek mythology fandom. try again man

#anti tsats #tsats crit #i GUESS?

[htylmg]

oh tsats the book you could have been………

#tsats #the sun and the star #tsats crit #anti tsats #no hazel no reyna no fucking plot #i’ve talked abt this extensively but still. sigh #goodbye goodbye goodbye you were bigger than the whole sky etc #it’s been a few weeks now and honestly im more sad than angry #this book had so so much potential but it just threw it all away and for what. for what #it’s so much harder when you grow up w rick’s writing and just see the state that this universe is in now…… #and can some of y’all stop being so quick to label every criticism as homophobia?? #im queer myself and it’s just a shitty book no getting past it #i was actually really pumped for the queer rep but the weird pretentious wattpad-esque writing just… threw me off severely #im not saying the rrverse was fantastic at queer rep before but this book smashed any further ideas to pieces to do uhhhh absolutely nothing #im just… sick of it lol #🐋.txt