I was looking over the THR comics again to get silly reaction images for a joke when I noticed that Terec was the first one to use the personal pronoun "I" for themself in the comic, not Ceret.
Notably, Ceret uses "I" in extreme distress, where they think Terec may be dead/disconnected from the Force. In contrast, when Terec used it, the situation that wasn't a threat to their or Ceret's life.
This is interesting in itself, but I think the placement of it after the preceding scene I've included below makes it even better:
Though it can be attributed to the fact that their mind(s) were altered by the Drengir, it's interesting to me that Terec goes to "I" after Keeve recognized them by name (for the first[?] time from the reader's PoV without having been told either twin's name by another character). For this reason, this can be interpreted as a first affirmation of Terec's individuality, as well as another example of the burgeoning friendship between Terec and Keeve.
Additionally, this is pre-Nameless, and given that Cavan didn't have either one use "I" before this, and only had Ceret use it in dire straits after (at least in Phase I, would have to check Phase III again to be completely sure), it's reasonable to assume that the usage here was on purpose. Given that Terec's greatest fear is the loss of their individuality/the mind takeover by the Drengir, this lends credence to the theory that the Drengir was the first thing that started shifting the bond between Terec and Ceret, and the Nameless just stressed the bond to a greater extreme.
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mostly vent, partially Mando e3 ep 1 spoilers
i hoped that watching the ep would help get over the rut ive been in ever since feb last year, but nope, i barely felt fucking anything for that first ep. i feel like i can argue its the weakest of all mando eps. most mando eps i feel like are very singularly driven and this had 5 different things introduced. i guess it could work out in the end but compared to other season openers, it was weak. i did like grogu spinning around the chair, grogu adn the space whales, and especially din showing grogu how to pilot the ship. but all the plot stuff? i could take or leave
Like... BOBF ep 5 was a way better opener for this season (there's been a year of 'that was mando s3 ep 1' jokes but they were all completely founded!) I think i was just hoping that there was a reason to BoBF jumping the gun on mando's storyline like that. like, i wanted to be able to tell that the story was gonna be really good so they needed to bring grogu back right away, but im not really getting that impression????
and i have no idea if i feel like this because of the episode itself or im still in this dumb fucking star wars rut from the shit show that was BoBF (which, if you cant tell, my opinion of has gone down the farther we get from it).
i just wanted to be able to watch mando s3 in real time with the gay people in my phone! but at this rate, im gonna have to wait till after mando s3 to be in the right fucking mood
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Okay, I know I've made it clear that I think Star Wars was overall screwed over more than Loki/Marvel, but Marvel did take the incest route and run with it. Long post with pics, so I'm putting a cut to make things more convenient :)
In Star Wars we have the obvious issue in Empire Strikes Back...
And the commonly forgotten about kiss in A New Hope
And another one
And here's at the end of Empire
Bam, four kisses between these two when they are love interests. Very fun. And while the fandom jokes about these, especially the one at the beginning of Empire, none of us care. Because it never went farther than this, and Luke, Leia, the actors, and George Lucas himself did not know they were twins.
How is that possible? There was no plan when the OT was made. Pretty much everyone thought A New Hope would flop, so no plans for sequels were made. And Star Wars is a huge part of why sequels to movies (not counting those adapted from books) became popular, so I don't know when Lucas decided to make a sequel. And Empire could have flopped too. Lucas made things up as he went, but he stuck with the narrative pretty well, which is why the OT is so good despite no planning. But up until Return of the Jedi, Luke, Leia, and Han were supposed to have some sort of love triangle thing going on. And they do in ANH and ESB. I guess Lucas wanted Leia/Han to be the endgame (which makes sense, given how things went in ESB), but Harrison Ford didn't want to come back, so Luke was kind of backup. But since they got Ford to come back, they had to find some way to satisfy the end of Luke/Leia. And a pretty good way of doing that is to make them twins!
Here are Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher reacting to the news. Clearly, they did not know until ROTJ. These are the faces of people realizing they had filmed five incestuous kisses (the fifth was in a deleted scene). (No this doesn't matter, I just find this picture hilarious).
While they never have a conversation on screen about it, well, when they find out, you can see it in their faces. Instant regret. Because they totally kissed each other.
"It won't be easy for you to hear it, but you must." Yeah, part of that is because of tense circumstances, but Luke did just say his father is Vader and is about to tell Leia she is his sister that kissed him four times.
So then Leia is free to be with Han, no more incest, and all incest before happened before they knew, so that's on Obi-Wan for not telling Luke. Dude should have shown up the instant Leia kissed him when they were on Yavin and told them. I understand the need to hide them for their own safety and keep them separated, but that's not gonna work anymore. The only kiss they have after this is in The Last Jedi, and that is clearly not romantic. Luke is about to get himself killed, and he is saying good bye to his sister. Though, oh boy, when I first saw it, there were thousands of jokes forming in my head.
It's not a popular ship, not even in pre-ROTJ fics. It's mostly something fans joke about. Because, haha, remember that time Luke and Leia kissed? And how a bunch of people shipped them? And then it turned out they were twins? Classic!
The only other time incest really ever entered the Star Wars fandom has been through fans. There are clone/clone ships, and, basically that's shipping them with an identical twin (except there are millions of them. And, when Force Awakens first came out, lots of people started shipping Reylo. Myself and several others did not. And for me, the only reason was because Star Wars had fooled me once. After that movie came out, everyone was theorizing who Rey's parents were. And likely candidates were Luke, Leia, and/or Han. Which would make Rey Ben's sister or cousin. And after ESB, I wasn't going to ship anyone with anyone until I found out exactly who everyone was related to. I really wanted Rey to be a Kenobi (thought it would be poetic if Ben redeemed himself and then those bloodlines would be reunited with a common cause and they could kill Snoke together), but I was not risking it. And even when TLJ made it seem as if Rey's parents were nobodies, I was not risking it even still. But obviously, that's only supposed incest, and me being cautious because I shipped Luke and Leia as a kid before I saw ROTJ. Rey is a Palpatine, nothing bad here. But, well, her being a Skywalker or a Solo was a very real possibility.
And then we move on to Marvel. Now that variants keep popping up, there's some...interesting things happen. Keep in mind, I have not seen Multiverse of Madness yet. I really hope I do not have to edit this post with something from that.
First off...this....
Since Sylvie was born female, that means her and Loki don't have exactly the same DNA. But, they are probably twin-like genetically. And they both know it. This is season one. This was planned to be a kiss between to Loki variants. Which I wouldn't mind too much (if I were to conveniently forget some things) if Marvel was straight up about it. They refer to it as "self love" and try to skirt around the fact that they're genetically siblings. And, on the one hand, I could actually argue this isn't incest (I mean, if Loki has an alligator variant, clearly the variants' DNA can be drastically different. So there is the possibility Sylvie and Loki aren't sibling-like. But how are they supposed to know? Loki literally saw a video of his "true" variant who looks exactly like how he does in episode 1. He knows that variants can be strikingly similar. But, nope, never considered.
To add to this, you have the Peters interactions. Primarily this line.
So, on the one hand, Marvel is saying there is no incest in Loki. On the other hand, they're explicitly calling the Peters brothers. And, of course, this can be interpreted as brothers in arms. But it still seems a little off.
I'm not a fan of Sylki, and that is the least of my concerns (it isn't even a good friendship). I'm not a fan of incest in general myself, but, it's fiction. And Sylki fics on Ao3 are probably not going to cause real life incest. I operate on a "don't like, don't look" philosophy. I have to in order to stay sane. That's what happens when you end up in a minority group. Between being queer and my religious minority, I don't let myself look for things I don't like. The instant I see it, I block it. Because I'm not going to let myself have someone hating me for my sexuality or religion on my dash. And I do the same thing with incest. It's not my thing typically, so I don't go out looking for it or try to stop it from being made. But practically everyone that ships an incestuous ship recognizes it as incest. I mean, ask a thorki shipper. They aren't going to deny it. There may be fics of theirs where it isn't incest (they weren't raised together), but they will all admit that if there is a relationship in a universe similar to canon, it is incest. Star Wars admits that Luke/Leia is incest. Not as obvious in the films (I have a feeling acknowledging it in the movies might have bumped the ratings up from PG), but anyone that ships it or clone/clone usually admits it's incest. And then there's Marvel that can't decide. Would they call it incest if it was Pres Loki/TVA Loki? Probably. But they chose to do Sylki, and now it's not, according to them. That is my issue. I would like at least some acknowledgement.
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