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shandycandy278 · 9 months

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that post u reblogged frames antis in a dishonest way... literally all we want is for people to be normal about minors and siblings.

but the issue is that most of the bad stuff is framed in a neutral light. or worse, it just exists for someones pleasure. which knowing fandom spaces, is going to be the case a rather high percentage of the time.

antis arent evil, and its clear that that post is coming from a close minded person.

sorry i just got up and seeing a post framing me as someone who wants to censor the whole internet makea me mad. i LOVE being not censored. its just some stuff HAS to be censored because its just morally gross.

but as i said, as long as that morally gross stuff is framed as it is, morally gross, im fine.

No, you’re right. Anti’s aren’t evil. But they’re not entirely right either. There’s a LOT of miscommunication going on in the drama surrounding them, and I will happily take a chance to try and communicate about this as clearly and calmly as I can.

I’m not mad or upset or anything, PLEASE do not see this as me being like “actually you’re WRONG”. That’s not it at all. I’m just going to be going over what was brought up in the post you are talking about, and how I interpreted them/what I believe.

(TW/CW: talk of the pro/anti drama, pedophilia, incest, abuse, murder, suicide, terrorism, rape, censorship)

I’m very confused as to how you thought this was an attack on you. The post was literally talking about how the response they have is very natural and good. Especially in real-life situations, because those sorts of things are wrong in real life. If you reread the post, you’ll see that it compares it to an automatic immune system for fandom spaces and the like. There was no hate or shade thrown, because you guys are necessary and right that incest and pedophilia is wrong. There’s nothing that says that you are not right.

But it also says that fiction is something that requires different approaches in this regard. People writing and drawing about pedophilia and Incest don’t want it to happen in real life an know it’s abusive and shady IRL. They KNOW it’s wrong, they aren’t denying that it’s wrong. The post actually explains this part better than I’ve seen many others describe this, and if you read it, you’ll find that they go on to define that exploring this sort of what-if thing in a fictional setting helps us, as humans, process the horrors of the reality and and the reality of the situation.

I’ve written about characters committing suicide and killing each other. Does that mean I want everyone to kill each other and then themselves? No. But I couldn’t fully process and define how that made me feel. Not until I wrote about it in a fictional setting. I didn’t even realize how horrible it was that I had almost offed myself years before that, back before I found writing and fanfiction. Not until I wrote about it. Now if I write characters killing themselves, it’s a reminder to myself. My life is valuable.

People make shows and the likes about serial killers too, you know. There’s fiction out there that highlights that, slavery, abuse, rape, terrible addictions, genocide, cults- but Anti’s don’t get upset about those. Not really.

Because those are ALL horrible, terrible things. Things that suck about our world, things that we hear about and it makes us feel sick. Because they’re BAD. Everyone knows they’re bad. Proshippers, Anti’s- EVERYONE. The only people who don’t know that are the people being abused and the people abusing them (depending on the situation).

You can drop into a pro shipper or Anti’s inbox and ask “how do you feel about school shootings, incest, pedophilia, rape, and the likes IRL?”, and they will respond with “man they SUCK humans sucks I wish people wouldn’t do that, I wish humans would (insert something to try and get the horrendous acts to stop). I hate that it exists IRL.” Or something along those lines.

But I haven’t seen anything telling writers and artists to stop creating content on those things. Why? Because creating them in a fictional reality helps us process the truth of it.

All of this was also in the post! I understand if it was a hard read because you felt like you were being attacked by it, but I do NOT think the post’s intent was to “attack” antis. Heck, “anti” is even in quotes because I’m fairly certain OP was only using the title so that people would see it and know that this is what they were discussing. It was just to try to explain the dilemma to people who didn’t know, or to those who have chosen one moniker or another not knowing what exactly it means or what’s happening. An analysis, if you will.

But I’d like to gently ask (if you can find it in yourself to, because I’m not going to force you to do something you’re uncomfortable with) that you take a deep breath, push your feelings about the drama and the likes to the side, and re-read it. It really summed up everything nicely, with a comparison that is honestly very true- not just for fandom, but for a lot of humanity. Again, if you don’t, I understand. It’s very hard to reread a post after it gets you all huffy and puffy and upset. (Especially when you hate feeling like that, like I do, and it makes everything worse.) But it’s ALSO very hard to see what exactly is being talked about in a post and what the point of the post is if you read it huffy and puffy. Again, you don’t HAVE to, but it’s something I’d recommend trying if you feel up to it.

Along side that, I don’t think pedophilia and incest in fandom was ever intended or meant for it to be centered AROUND the fact that it was pedophilia or incest. Not unless it was a MAJOR story/plot point, or a part of the source material (like in a LOT of various Anime. I’ll be very honest, it’s a surprise that anime has not been brought up/referenced in any pro/anti drama I’ve seen so far. There is a LOT of fictional pedophilia/incest going on in there. Then again, Japanese fandom has stated that they don’t care about antis/proshippers or any of this sort of thing and will just happily block anyone who tries to drag in drama or throw them into mud. Maybe that’s why. Idk).

I personally think it started because people liked the idea of the character types and personalities working off of each other. Not because of some “HIDDEN SECRET EVIL PREDATOR URGE”. They just like how the characters acted together and had chemistry, thought it was cute, and went with it. The fact that it was incest and/or pedophilia wasn’t even at the forefront of their minds. They literally went “OOO TWO PRETTY CHARACTERS they should kiss”.

And honestly, that’s a lot of what shipping just… is. It’s deciding you like how two characters interact, taking it, and running off with it. Shipping discourse exists because people disagree on how that should happen and what dynamics should be in a ship, too! Because it happens soooo often. This isn’t much different, even if it’s a ship that others or many May view as problematic.

The post WAS admittedly a bit confusing about this next topic, so I understand if this was a big basis towards confusion, but-

I am a firm believer that people should create what they want to make, and not what others want to see from them.

And this post says much the same, in the later parts of it. Just phrased weirdly.

If this means that they make a bunch of stuff about incest, porn, pedophilia, murder- that’s not our business.

We are in no right to tell them what they should or should not create. It doesn’t matter their reasoning. It is their freedom to make whatever they want. No one should be policed over their own content, which they make for themselves.

But You know what is within your right to do?

Blocking them.

You have every right to block them so that you don’t have to see what they’ve made. If you don’t like it, I recommend you familiarize yourself with the block button and blocking tags, too.

And I think this is SO IMPORTANT for people to do.

A lot of proshippers have adopted this tactic, did you know? A lot of them block other proshippers and the likes ALL THE TIME, because they don’t like the content that that person makes. It’s fascinating. Proshippers will even do their best to respect Anti shippers by blocking them, so that the Anti won’t ever have to see the Proshipper’s works. And if proshippers find that someone is actually IRL a pedophile or a predator like that (a rare occurrence, mind you), they will block them, too! (Like what happened with an NSFW artist named Neahchan some time back).

But I think SOME (not all) Anti’s don’t understand that this is the easiest and safest way. Because you want to know what those FEW (not all) Antis do if they follow a proshipper?

If they are not blocked immediately, one of the first things those few do is harass the person. Cyber bully them. Maybe something small at first, but it gets to big things quickly. “You are sick I can’t believe you support this, let me make a full on call out post about this to tell everyone to isolate and bully you too”. If the proshipper chooses to comment or argue against the allegations, harassment just gets worse. If they block it then, it saves some face, but the drama swells horribly and it takes HUGE blows on their mental health.

Do you remember those videos about the kid that was bullied online and in school? About how they were going to kill themselves because they felt so horrible? That’s what those few antis are doing. They’re doing that to a human being.

(To me, this is the big issue. This is the thing we should REALLY be talking about instead of if a ship is okay to ship or whatever.)

If the proshipper blocks them right away, it’s a lot less impactful and a lot less harm is done. And those few antis will pick up a fuss about it “why did you block me! Your AUs are so cool! Whatever I’m going to try and harass you anyway”. (This is something that has actually happened recently to Skumhu, the creator of leviathan tale.)

When proshippers usually talk about Antis, it’s often these antis specifically that they’re talking about. The ones that harass and cyber bully them over completely fictional things that have no impact on the real world.

But why am I bringing up blocking people, anyway? You were talking about censorship.

That’s because blocking is a form of censorship, just personal to you.

If you were to go out one day and censor the entirety of the internet from, let’s say, images of any and all kinds of skeletons because skeletons and their symbolism made you uncomfortable, you’d get a LOT of people really upset at you. Because skeletons mean something completely different to them.

Okay, well, what if you prevented people from talking about and discussing terrorism by censoring them? It’s bad and horrible, surely if we stopped talking about it then it would stop. But now a lot of people who were victims or terrorism are upset because they had safe spaces where they could talk about their traumas and express them without fear. They don’t get that anymore with censorship in play. And now, terrorists have actually increased their attacks because there isn’t enough awareness going around, and people can’t prepare to defend themselves or keep themselves safe because they can’t even find out that it’s happening.

So now what if we censor pedophilia? Horrible, gross. SURELY something that’s influenced from everything going on online, so stopping it would put a stop to it. Right?

I promise, the same exact thing that I described above with terrorism will happen here.

Victims would not be able to discuss or share their experiences safely, or recover in their own way. Children would be put into further risk because parents wouldn’t be taught how to teach kids to watch out for the signs of a predator and notify their parents. Some parents might not even know of what signs to look out for, because we censored all the content of it.

Full, complete censorship of something gives oppressors the power to be more oppressive.

I understand being uncomfortable when fictional characters are written as incestuous or pedophilic, but if you want to censor the uncomfortable and icky gross stuff entirely, you should be ready for the consequences of censoring EVERY LITTLE THING about it because extremists and religious extremists will take what you’ve done and make it ten times worse. It’s not worth the pain and suffering it would cause. Not worth the lives that would be lost or the lack of support systems in place for survivors.

Is this every Anti’s vendetta? ABSOLUTELY NOT! But that doesn’t mean that censorship doesn’t give the abusers the power and freedom they need to hurt people.

There’s a reason why these are the signs of people in abusive relationships, and that’s because the lack of knowledge and support someone has, the more power the abuser has.

The safest and healthiest way isn’t to censor the whole internet because you’re uncomfortable with something. It’s to block users and tags who make you personally uncomfortable. It’s SO much better for your mental health, AND theirs. No one gets harmed, hurt, or cyberbullied.

It’s so important to know that there is SUCH a vast range of pro and anti people. There are certainly proshippers that are abusers, trolls, or jerks. Just like there are also antis who are the same.

(Trust me. I’ve been hurt by both a proshipper and an anti shipper. I’d rather not have to talk about my experiences with them to prove my point, because I’m also friends with pros and antis. It’s also a very private experience, and just mentioning that it happened is something that makes me feel weird.)

Repeat after me the 15% rule: in any given group of people, 15% of them are just the worst, most horrible and sucky people you could ever meet. And those people should be blocked for EVERYONE’S mental health and well being, but more specifically, YOUR mental health and well being.

I apologize if this doesn’t make sense or if there are any typos. It’s 5:30 in the morning and I haven’t slept, but I just… HAD to say this.

I’m so sorry you got hurt by that post and felt like it was attacking you. That was not my intention and I doubt that that was OP’s intention, either. But it’s SO important to me that people are free to do as they wish and create what they want in safe fictional spaces, to define that proship does not mean they support those things IRL, and the issues with censoring the icky gross stuff.

#ask sc #drama #pro shipping #anti shipping #pro ship #anti ship #pro anti drama #stars it’s 6AM now #i need to sleep so I can go to work tomorrow but I don’t think I can anymore #this exhausted me because this isn’t something I like to talk about #because blocking and moving on is just so much easier and safer than having to spill my heart out #but you are my friend and I care for you #so I did it anyway #and even if you disagree still #or even decide to block me or something because of it #I’d be okay with that #it might hurt but you’d be talking care of your mental health and well being #and that’s far more important to me than anything else #same with any other mutuals who read this

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keets-writing-corner · 3 months

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Thinking a LOT about Lucifer in the latest Hazbin episode. Idk what I was expecting but not this??

As I was watching my immediate thought was just "huh... Lucifer is kinda of weird..." but as the episode went on I realized the issue

the dude is off the chain depressed, like he says it as a joke but holy cow it is SO BAD

He's manically just creating rubber ducks cuz his daughter really like it that one time but it's empty, it's never good enough but he keeps doing it, maybe cuz he doesn't know how to pass the time otherwise.

like I get the feeling he HAS better things he SHOULD be doing than making rubber duck after rubber duck. At first I was like, "Bruh why isn't the king of hell doing anything?" aaaaand then it became clear...

The dude is disassociating so bad he can barely hold a conversation let alone remember information. He clearly WANTS to, he wants to be involved with his daughter so bad, he wants to care about the things she's doing so bad, but his depression keeps interfering. It's like he can only hear every other word and he grasps onto the ones he does hear semi-out of context. Like you can see every time he catches something that he hadn't before and he just "well shit I didn't catch that part"

and that's why he reacts so weird when people talk to him. He is struggling so bad to engage with the conversation he's only getting 50% of it

does that look like the face of a man who knows what the hell the conversation is even about??? he is STRUGGLING

like Charlie spent so long telling him about the hotel, and he STILL didn't understand what she wanted. Yeah it comes off as ditzy but literally I've been in that position where your brain just "nope, not doing this right now" and nerfs your conversation comprehension. So as someone who's BEEN in that position, to me it feels exactly like what he's dealing with. He's sorta engaged with the conversation, but only as much as his brain will allow

For example, when I'm dealing with this, this is what someone talking to me feels like this where the crossed out parts are what I missed and bold is what I catch, "Hey! You know I was thinking for dinner we could either make some chicken with rice? But if you don't feel like cooking, pasta is super easy and you love that right? What do you want to do?" you can kinda get that someone is trying to talk to you about dinner, and towards the end you get the impression that they asked something that needs your input so you can decently put 2 and 2 together and try and pass off, but crucial bits were left out, I would have no idea that either chicken or pasta is in the conversation only having heard "rice". When someone is just talking at me, I can decently pass off as being engaged but the second I'm required to participate in the conversation I'm screwed. Seem familiar? At which point I have 2 options, try to give a bullshit answer, or admit that I missed what they were saying and ask them to repeat

Lucifer, unfortunately, is trying so damn hard to hide that he's dealing with like 24/7 dissociation, so he can't admit that he's missing entire chunks of the conversation, hence his really weird replies. He does eventually get the full picture and then he and Charlie start having the real conversation

Also, the Alastor/Lucifer rivalry was hilarious but also really indicative of more of what Lucifer is dealing with

Alastor is, unfortunately, really good at picking up people's insecurities, and thanks to Charlie's description earlier and watching Lucifer clearly trying to overcompensate, he immediately picks up on the fact that Lucifer KNOWS he struggles to be a good dad (we know cuz it's cuz of the depression, hard to be engaged when your brain keeps turning off) and decides to rub salt in the wound by pretending he's been acting as a surrogate father to Charlie. Now why Alastor decided to pick a fight with the king of hell is beyond me, I do not understand Alastor (and I LIKE IT) (maybe it's cuz Alastor thinks he's hot shit and was expecting Lucifer to at least have heard of him but Lucifer just treats him like a nobody? who knows)(why would Lucifer listen to radio anyways when he can't even pay attention to a conversation it'd just be white noise)

But yeah I just was expecting someone who oozed either charisma or presence and instead I got a depressed dad who's dissociating so bad he can barely function and be present in his life. The only thing it seems he CAN do is make rubber ducks cuz his daughter really liked it that one time

Idk Lucifer is tragic to me. Whatever the full details of what heavan did to him absolutely broke him and he can't deal with it. He's aware of it, and he doesn't know how to fix it, so he tries to over compensate and sorta makes an ass out of himself but no one says or does anything cuz this guy is supposed to be THE king of hell

Suddenly it's making a lot more sense why he just rolls over and lets heaven do what it wants and even told Charlie to go in his place the start of the show. He's not in any headspace to hold a basic conversation let alone negotiate! He didn't even know who Alastor was, he's been so out of touch

idk I like him, he seems sweet, I hope Charlie brings some light back into his life. He really needs to get out of that rubber duck room

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