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bretwalda-lamnguin · 1 year

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The build up to the Kin-Strife is insane when you think about it. Valacar is sent as emisarry to Rhovanion in 1250, marries Vidumavi sometime before 1255 when she gives birth to Vinitharya, and they return to Gondor in 1260 where Vinitharya and Vidumavi both take Gondorian names, Eldacar and Galadwen respectively. Romendacil II, who sent Valacar north doesn't become king (in name at least) until 1304. Vidumavi dies in 1332, presumably at a very old age, 77 years after giving birth to Vinitharya. Valacar becomes king in 1366 and rules for 66 years, dying 1432. Eldacar takes the throne and the kin-strife begins, with Castamir overthrowing him in 1437.

This is an insane timeline for a civil war, from root cause (Eldacar's birth) to outbreak is 177 years! Vidumavi is dead 100 years before her son takes the throne! What on earth was going on in Gondor in this time? Did Romendacil II guess that this would cause a civil war? Did he support Valacar completely or try and encourage him to ditch Vidumavi? Was Vidumavi taking a Gondorian name an attempt to hide her ancestry? Did her hair and ageing give it away? Was this a scandal? Could Romendacil II have prevented a civil war by purging the army and navy of blood purists? Or was there no way of knowing? What was it like under Valacar, was everyone just waiting for a civil war? A conflict generations in the making. It's such a strange situation.

I feel so sorry for Vidumavi in this situation, I doubt anyone would have been rude to her face, but there must have been snide coments behind her back, and an absurd amount of pressure to be perfect, and to fit Gondorian customs. Did she realise what was coming? Did she ever regret marrying Valacar?

#gondor #kin strife #lotr #eldacar #romendacil ii #valacar #vidumavi #galadwen #vinitharya #I am having many Vidumavi thoughts...#she must have been very young when she married Valacar #did she really love him or did her father try and arrange it?#gondor must have been so strange for her #not only a different culture and language but so many people ageing much slower than her #did she have to dye her hair black and hide any signs of ageing in order to seem Dúnedain #did she have to hide her culture and identity?#i have so many questions about her...#my posts #kin-strife

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vidumavi · 10 months

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Prompt: Rhovanion & shadows of things that were yet to be

Hiii thank you <3 I understood rhovanion to imply my favourite niche family

(Names: Vinitharya = Eldacar, Minalcar = Romendacil II, Meligavi = Eldacar's canonical but unnamed sibling)

The messenger had been formally received with the same ceremonials as all of his kind who had made the journey from the far south over the last decade. He had come with greetings from one king to another and a stack of letters: for Vidugavia, for his son-in-law and his daughter. There had even been a small, cloth-wrapped package for his grandchildren that revealed finely made toys and a bag of dried figs and peaches.

Nothing had seemed out of the ordinary, but Vidugavia had taken note of a line of tension in Valacar’s face and a guarded look in his eyes as he watched the messenger approach. He had searched for a similar reaction in his daughter, but Vidumavi had been preoccupied with the bored and restless toddler on her hip, her face turned away and half-obscured by her hair.

Minalcar’s letter had offered nothing save for the usual diplomatic pleasantries and goings-on when Vidugavia had opened it that evening, but over the following weeks, he watched a strain grow in the bearing of his daughter and his law-son. They tried to keep their whispered arguments away from their children, he knew, but little Vinitharya, five years old now, was precocious and disposed to listening at doors. He soon lost interest in the beautiful, detailed model of a ship that had been gifted to him and began to look sullen and hide when he was called for.

Vidugavia had known this day would come, but foolish, soft old man that he had become, he had hoped he would not live to see it, that he might die surrounded by all his children and grandchildren. But it seemed Minalcar, who had after Vinitharya’s birth tentatively begun hinting that Valacar might best serve the realm in Gondor now, had finally lost his patience for good.

Vidugavia had some inkling of the stern conventions that ruled over an empire like Gondor, over its ancient, sprawling stone cities and harbours, over the far older families at its helm: the news of their prince marrying in foreign lands, not even deigning to bring his bride home for the wedding, must have been received with bitterness indeed. Had he been only a politician, he would have advised against it, told Valacar to be wed according to all standards of tradition to take the sting off his choice in spouse- but he was a sentimental old man as well, and he had wanted to see his daughter married where he had raised her.

Mist clung to the earth that morning when he walked toward her home. He had let her avoid him for too long already. But when he stepped into her entrance hall, he nearly stumbled over his grandson, who was carrying his sister in his arms with some difficulty. On his back was a large pack and he swayed slightly on his feet.

“Careful, there,” Vidugavia said and put a hand on his shoulder to steady him, “And where are you going, young man?”

Vinitharya’s expression was half guilt and half stubbornness.

“I’m running away,” he replied, jutting his chin out imperiously.

“I see. How come?”

Before Vinitharya could answer, the voice of his mother echoed from another room, closely followed by that of his father.

“ - sooner or later - “

“ - before my children – “

They caught only snatches of their words, but Vinitharya’s face scrunched up in distress, his eyes watering. Little Meligavi began squirming in his arms and Vidugavia bowed to take her in his own before she could drop to the floor.

“Alright,” he said, “Let’s go.”

He told a guard to inform his daughter that he was taking the children out for the day and led them out of the keep, through the town and its gates and into the forest. They went west, where the hills grew higher and the trees taller, stopping to pick berries and some of the year’s first apples. What luxury, to walk with children and no guard so far from any fortification- but Vinitharya and Meligavi knew nothing else, children of peacetime that they were.

May it stay that way, he thought as they climbed the tallest hill for miles, its top bare of trees and its western slopes steep and rocky. From its highest point, a dark smudge was visible far to the north: the mountains of Mirkwood and, past them, the Lonely Mountain. Fainter even, only a grey speck on the horizon, was the mountain to the south that rose over the darkened parts of the forest where shadows walked and poison stained the rivers and the air.

Vinitharya did not complain about having every landmark explained to him despite knowing them all already, hanging on his grandfather’s every word. Vidugavia even told him of the cave that reached deep beneath the hill, that had been used as a shelter during the war. It was no story for children, but he was overcome with the sudden urge to tell his grandson all he knew ere he was taken to be raised in a strange land. Vinitharya at least was old enough to remember: Meligavi, who had only just learned to walk a few wavering steps, would likely not even remember his face.

He looked at his granddaughter, who was sitting in the grass, grabbing at wildflowers with her chubby hands and babbling, oblivious to her family’s sorrow.

“Watch out for your sister,” he told Vinitharya, “She will not remember her home. See to it that she knows where she hails from.”

Vinitharya looked close to tears.

“I don’t want to go.”

“I know. But I must ask you to be brave.”

He bent his weary knees to heave Vinitharya upon his shoulders and let him gaze far and wide across Rhovanion. Summer was drawing to its close, the nights growing colder by the day, but the woods were yet green.

“For six months, the cave below sheltered my company,” Vidugavia said, “Cradled us, protected us against enemy and elements alike. You, too, are children of this land. It will not forsake you when the time comes.”

Vinitharya sniffed.

“Are we not forsaking it first?”

“Earth and people both will remember you. You will always have a home here, I give you my word.”

Vinitharya appeared to reluctantly accept his words. Then, he insisted on looking at the cave himself. They climbed through the concealed entrance and into the narrow tunnels, where he touched the cold, granite walls with reverence. Vidugavia saw him collect two smooth, black rocks from the ground and put them in his pocket.

The sun was beginning to set by the time they returned. Vidugavia let himself into their private lodgings, Meligavi fast asleep in his arms. Vidumavi and Valacar turned to him as one when he entered. Valacar’s hand had been resting on her arm, but now he strode toward his son and embraced him.

“We’re sorry, darling,” Vidugavia heard him murmur, “We did not mean to scare you.”

Vidumavi looked at her father intently, perfect understanding passing between them.

“Thank you,” she said, “for watching them.”

He nodded and moved to return her daughter to her, but she shook her head.

“Keep her just a moment longer,” she said, “I would not wish to wake her.”

#you know i do have a feeling like my content is getting increasingly niche #thanks for the prompt!!#fic

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arofili · 3 years

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the line of elros ♚ royalty of gondor ♚ headcanon disclaimer

Minalcar was the elder son of Calmacil, and unlike his forefathers he was a vigorous man eager to prove his worth. His uncle Narmacil I recognized his strength and appointed him the Regent of Gondor so Minalcar might rule in his stead, as he had little interest in politics. As Regent, Minalcar turned his attention to the North and East, where there were stirrings of rebellion among both the conquered Easterlings and Gondor’s sometime-allies the Northmen. With the aid of the Woodsmen of Rhovanion, Minalcar defeated invaders from the East and ensured the loyalty of the northern people. Minalcar returned home having taken the name Rómendacil after King Rómendacil I, another warrior who had defeated the Easterlings. At this time he married Calamistë, an archivist in the Library of Gondor; together they had a son, Valacar. Without war to occupy him, Rómendacil focused on the affairs of the capital, making King Narmacil nervous he would seek to supplant him, though no such thought crossed Rómendacil’s mind. While Valacar was still a child, Narmacil sent Rómendacil and his family north again to reaffirm Gondor’s alliance with Rhovanion. Valacar grew to manhood among the Woodsmen, raised alongside King Vidugavia’s children, and eventually marrying his daughter Vidumavi. As well as integrating many Northmen into Gondor’s army and solidifying their alliance through marriage, Rómendacil and Valacar fortified the western shores of the Anduin and built the Pillars of the Argonath above Nen Hithoel. It was not until Narmacil’s death that Rómendacil returned to Gondor permanently. His father Calmacil was crowned king, but as he was already old and had always been indolent like his brother, Rómendacil kept his position as Regent. Upon Calmacil’s own death ten years later, Minalcar was finally crowned King Rómendacil II after sixty-four years of ruling as Regent. Soon Rómendacil called his son back to Gondor as well, for as his heir he believed Valacar ought to take an active part in governance. By this time, Vidumavi had borne Valacar a son, named Vinitharya after the fashion of his mother’s people. The court of Gondor, consisting almost entirely of “high men” descended from the Númenóreans, were displeased with Valacar’s decision to wed a woman of a “lesser” race, especially when Vidumavi grew old and died much younger than a woman of the Dúnedain might have. Nevertheless, when Valacar inherited his father’s throne he named Vinitharya, now called Eldacar, his heir, though this would not be the end of the resistance against the Woodswoman’s son.

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timewandererus · 3 years

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The Kings of Gondor

I claimed that I can name all the Kings of Gondor by rote. Such a bold claim demands proof. So, here:

Meneldil-Usurped Valandil’s suzerainty and ensured the Kings of Gondor could rule without Arnor’s interference. Judge him as you will but Gondor thrived under the rule of his descendants.

Cemendur-Literally did nothing at all.

Earendil-Had a famous name and an uneventful rule

Anardil-The same as his grandfather. See Cemendur.

Ostoher-Expanded Minas Anor. Not much, but better than his father. Minas Anor’s expansion would be useful in a millennium or so.

Romendacil I=Defeated the first invasion of Easterlings. Bravo, Tarostar.

Turambar-Avenged his father and dealt the Easterlings a second defeat. They remained cowed for close to a millennium.

Atanatar-Rejoiced in his father’s victory. Did nothing else of note.

Siriondil-Did absolutely nothing of note.

Tarannon-Started an epic shipbuilding program. Probably to compensate for his lack of heirs and his horrible marriage.

Earnil I-Continued his uncle’s naval expansion and conquered Umbar. Perished shortly after along with his entire armada in a very suspicious storm.

Ciryandil-Continued his father and great-uncle’s work and defended Umbar to his death.

Hyarmendacil I-Fulfilled his father, grandfather and great-uncle’s grand ambitions by defeating the Umbarians and Haradrim once and for all, earning his place as the greatest King of Gondor.

Atanatar II-Enjoyed the fruits of his father’s great labors. Called himself the “Glorious”.

Narmacil I-The most lazy and spoiled King in Gondor’s entire history. Lived in complete luxury and decadence and handed the tasks of ruling to his nephew. Lived like a literal King without any of the responsibilities or cares.

Calmacil-Lived the same life as his childless brother. Ruled for a handful of years after his brother’s death. Dude had a pretty luxurious life.

Romendacil II-The true heir to Hyarmendacil’s strategic genius and leadership. Carried the torch for his lazy father and uncle. Defeated the Easterlings after they stirred from their long past defeat at the hands of Turambar.

Valacar-Married a woman of the North-Princess Vidumavi-for love. One of the bravest Kings of Gondor. Defied the worst racism of the Dunedain. Kudos, King.

Eldacar-The first King to be of “mixed” blood. Was usurped by his chief Admiral and lost his firstborn son to the Kin-Strife. Took it all back a decade later and slew the foul Usurper for his crimes.

Castamir-Racist, usurping tyrant. Shortest reign of all the Kings of Gondor, save one. And not short enough it was.

Aldamir-Ruled Gondor after his father reclaimed the crown. Didn’t do much other than rebuild.

Hyarmendacil II-Defeated the Haradrim after their long defeat at the hands of Hyarmendacil I.

Minardil-Fell victim to a surprise attack by the Usurper’s grandsons. Bad luck, I guess.

Telemnar-Fell victim to the Great Plague. Must have inherited his dad’s bad luck.

Tarondor-Took the throne after his uncle died from the Plague. Managed to save Gondor from collapse. Relocated to Minas Anor, Ostoher’s renovations from a millennium ago finally proving useful.

Telumehtar-The first King of Gondor to take to the sea since Hyarmendacil-Castamir does not count!-and destroyed all of the Usurper’s heirs, taking Umbar back for Gondor. A much-belated vengeance for his great-great-uncle.

Narmacil II-Fought a third invasion of Easterlings. Defeated them, but died on the field of battle. Those Easterlings are a pretty resilient foe. That’s the second King of Gondor they’ve killed.....I hope they don’t get anymore.

Calimehtar-Avenged his dad, following in the proud tradition of Turambar and both Romendacil’s. Defeated the Wainriders with the help of the brave Northmen.

Ondoher-Rode to battle to fight a second invasion of Wainriders. Those guys just don’t give up. His luck was even worse than his grandfathers and both his sons died with him in Battle.

Earnil II-The great-great-grandson of Telumehtar. Literally the only choice left for a successor in the Line of Anarion after Ondoher and his idiot sons got themselves killed at the Morannon. The Heirs of Anarion are getting pretty scarce. Earnil had a lot more battle-savvy than his predecessor. He avenged Ondoher and saved Gondor from ruin. Let’s hope his son is half the man he is.

Earnur-The Last-King of Gondor in the Line of Anarion and by far the most foolish. He inherited his father’s skill on the battlefield and none of his strategic brilliance. After taking the crown, he was tricked into an ambush by the Lord of the Nazgul and slain after long torment. Thus ends the Kings of Gondor through Anarion’s Line.

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lesbiansforboromir · 3 years

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Impossible LotR Quiz Answer sheet with explanations!

As an addendum, since people have been doing the quiz I’ve seen a few mistypes and awkwardnesses that are my own fault so I’ve corrected them. This means some people got a higher score than was shown, know that when I looked over your answers I saw your actually right answers and fully appreciated them! It’s good to not that the ‘fill in the blanks’ questions will not take two words in one space, so I’ve had to get creative with how I apply two named folk like Mardil Voronwe, or people who have numbers like Hurin I.

I would also like to say, to everyone talking about how they’ve never read the Silmarillion, this quiz is very purposefully almost entirely based outside of the Silmarillion. This is Appendices stuff! Indeed there is only 1 question even tangentally related to elves in here, this is by design.

@magaramach, @brynnmclean and @apojiiislands asked to be tagged in this! Answers under the cut.

Q2. Who was Dora Baggins in relation to Bilbo Baggins? - Second cousin on his father's side Dora Baggins is a very elderly woman who was the daughter of Bilbo’s father’s brother. She likes writing people a lot of unsolicited advice! THIS WAS WRONG AND SAID FIRST COUSIN FOR SO LONG AND I AM DEEPLY SORRY FOR IT.

Q3. How many pairs of biological twins are mentioned in the whole of Arda's timeline and what races do they belong too? - 2 for men, 1 for elves and 3 for half-elves Fastred and Folcred, Haleth and Haldar (men) Amrod and Amras (elves) Elured and Elurin, Elrond and Elros, Elladan and Elrohir (half-elves) Now, admittedly Elladan and Elrohir are never actually described as twins. However they appear completely identical and have the same birth date, so it is assumed.

Q4. Baldor is who the skeleton scratching at the door used to be. When Aragorn and co pass through the paths of the dead they find a skeleton clawing at a door to the mountain. It is finely dressed and described as mighty and was later essentially confirmed to be Baldor, the eldest son of King Brego of Rohan, also called Baldor the hapless, who foolishly wandered into the paths of the dead on, apparently, a dare. (the answer to this was originally Brego because of a foolish typo from me, many apologies!)

Q5. When was the Ondonóre Nómesseron Minaþurie written? - During Meneldil's reign. “Enquiry into the Place-names of Gondor” was a text written by settled numenoreans about their new kingdom during Meneldil’s reign, who was the first sole King of Gondor after both Anarion (his father) and Isildur had perished.

Q6. Farmer Maggot's particular friend was Tom Bombadil It is stated that Farmer Maggot sometimes peacefully passes through the Old Forest to go and meet Tom Bombadil, who very much enjoys his company. However! Those who answered Merry or Pippin still deserve excellent recognition, Farmer Maggot was indeed fond of Pippin and respected Merry greatly.

Q7. What was the office of the Steward originally created to do? - Keep the Tradition of Isildur When Romendacil I went to war in the east, he realised that if he died then the secret of the Tradition of Isildur would die with him. Hence he wrote it down in a sealed scoll and gave it to a trusted confidante, to be given to his heir if he should perish. This tradition was maintained by further kings and those trusted confidantes became the Stewards of Gondor. This, admittedly, is a more suggested progression than explicit, but it’s a Impossible evil quiz so :) Q8. What was the 'Tradition of Isildur'? - Remember where Elendil was buried. Elendil had been secretly entombed in Calenardhon, supposedly the midpoint between Gondor and Arnor. This was a hallowed space for only Kings at first, but in later years when the Stewards came to rule Gondor they also were permitted the secret. Cirion had the remains moved when Calenardhon was gifted to the Eotheod to eventually become a part of the Kingdom of Rohan.

Q9. At the time of Pelargir's founding, is the world flat or round? - Flat. Pelargir was founded as a ‘Faithful Numenorean’ haven on the river Anduin. Therefore it was built before Numenor’s destruction in the Akallabeth, the reason for which being that Eru turned the world from flat to round.

Q10. Which of these monarchs were indolent and had no interest in ruling? - King Atanatar I - King Narmacil I - Tar-Vanimelde King Atanatar I ruled during Gondor’s richest generation and seemed to believe that meant he didn’t need to put any work in. Narmacil I, his son, didn’t want to put any work in, but he at least assigned his nephew, Minalcar, as ‘Karma-Kundo’ or regent during his reign. So he at least did something to keep the country going. Tar-Vanimelde had no interest in ruling and allowed her husband to do most of the governence. This backfired when she died and he organised a coup against his son to hold power.

Q11. When looking back on the Ship-Kings of Gondor, King Tarannon Falastur began the invasion of Harad and expanded Gondor's borders, King Earnil-I finally took Umbar but died at sea shortly afterwards, King Ciryandil spent most of his reign trying to defend Umbar and died in it's seige and King Hyarmendacil defended Umbar against seiges for 35 years before making war upon all Harad and claiming Harondor as a province of Gondor, ending the line of the Ship Kings.

Q12. What happened during the reign of King Romendacil II? - I don't know! Nothing? Yes I know this is particularly evil of me but Romendacil II was originally called Minalcar, yes the same Minalcar who became REGENT of Gondor due to Narmacil’s indolent nature. Minalcar indeed did everything else listed as answers to this question, but none of them happened during his reign as king. Indeed, his reign was said to be peaceful and we have no real information on it, so technically saying we don’t know, and suggesting nothing happened, is actually the most correct answer :)

Q13. Who succeeded Tar-Telperien of Numenor? - Her nephew, Minastir Tar-Telperien was a lesbian Queen of Numenor who never married and never wanted too and did an excellent job and I love her. Her nephew built a tower to mope in about how much he wanted to be an elf. They are not the same. Absolutely terrified about what Amazon could do to her.

Q14. Whilst his brethren, the nazgul, were attacking the Prancing Pony, The Witch-King was waiting in the Barrow Downs and probably had a really nice time. Not much to this! Witch King was chilling with the Barrow Wights.

Q15. Which of these characters are described as 'beautiful' at least once in the Lord of the Rings? - Galadriel, Denethor, Eowyn, Frodo, Elanor, Celeborn, Boromir Yes, Arwen is never described as beautiful, but Denethor is :)

Q16. We all love Boromir II, select the similarities he and Boromir I did NOT share. - Renowned relationship with the Rohirrim. - Destroyed the Bridge of Osgiliath - Feared by the Witch King - Retook Ithilien. - Had a brother. In case you’re wondering, yes, I love both Boromirs. But this question is a fun highlight of how many similarities Boromir II has with his namesake. These are the only things they didn’t both do. Although! Boromir I’s son was Cirion who allied with the Eotheod and created Rohan in the first place, the Uruk-Hai destroyed the Bridge of Osgiliath in Boromir I’s lifetime, Boromir II was PROBABLY feared by the witch-king we just don’t know, Boromir II held Ithilien and Boromir I had two elder sisters like Denethor II did.

Q17. Hey, did you know that, from Boromir I's war with the Uruk-Hai of the Morgul Vale, Gondor didn't know peace until Sauron's death on the 25th of March, 3019? Hah hah! How gut wrenching is that? About how long do you think it has been since Gondor knew peace then? Hey wait does that mean Boromir I's valiant victory that came at a personal sacrifice was the beginning of Gondor's wars and then Boromir II's valiant sacrifice was the end- oh god... oh fuck - 550 years To everyone who answered the crossed out answer,,, you’re correct in my heart. You get bonus points. Also hey! What the fuck :)

Q18. Who was Borondir? - The rider sent to find Eorl who made it to him after starving himself for two days but who then rode to the Celebrant with Eorl anyway and died in that battle. Literally couldn’t love this fellow more. Big Hirgon energy. A hero of Gondor for time immemorial.

Q19. The Ruling Stewards, from first to last (with their numbers typed as so Turin-I Hurin-II etc), were as follows; Mardil ; Eradan ; Herion ; Belegorn ; Hurin-I ; Turin-I ; Hador ; Barahir ; Dior ; Denethor-I ; Boromir-I ; Cirion ; Hallas ; Hurin-II ; Belecthor-I ; Orodreth ; Ecthelion-I ; Egalmoth ; Beren ; Beregond ; Belecthor-II ; Thorondir ; Turin-II ; Turgon ; Ecthelion-II ; Denethor-II ; and for like two seconds ; Faramir ; Alrighty, we had a bit of a fight in my discord about this but eventually I did relent in agreement that Faramir IS... very briefly... legally considered a RULING Steward. Ruling Stewards being Stewards that ruled a Kingless Gondor. But! With Aragorn RIGHT THERE is just seemed very redundant. Still! I’ll allow the pedant to win out, ten minutes is still a Ruling Steward. ALSO! I decided that having an extra box for the ‘voronwe’ part of mardil voronwe was just mean as it set everyone’s answers off kilter, so I removed that. ALSO for all of those calling me a bastard for adding this question, @illegalstargender was the one who requested it! I wasn’t going too!

Q20. The Stewards, despite ruling through very tumultuous and violent periods, were often known for boring things (because they simply ruled better than the Kings did, I said what I said) But what boring thing was Steward Turin I remembered for? - Being the only monarch of Gondor that married twice This skeezy bastard really did marry a second time during his OLD age just to father a son. I can only imagine what a dreadful cultural and social effect this had on this prude country. It’s so unnecessary! He had daughters, many of them! One of them certainly had a son before he did. He was just being a controlling arse, down with Turin I!!!!

#my quiz

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austerlitzborodinoleipzig · 4 years

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Today is one of those “let’s think about Tolkien’s weird obsession with Second-of-his-name trope” days.

Because really, I still don’t know why but nearly half of Tolkien’s heroes, or characters of particular relevance to the plot/history of Middle-Earth are the second guys to wear that name.

I mean,the most glaring exemple is Aragorn who is actually Aragorn II, son of Arathorn, you guessed it, II. And in Gondor you have Denethor II, son of Ecthelion II. Also fun fact, had Boromir been a Ruling Steward, he would have been called Boromir II. (Unrelated, but Boromir the first was a bit of a badass, and one of my favorite obscure characters). Thorin Oakenshield? Thorin the fucking second. And so is his cousin, Dain II Ironfoot.

So I decided to sit down, reread LOTR’s appendices and see where that trend goes.

So hereby is the (maybe not exhaustive list) of all the characters that wear the number II behind their names.

Kings of Arnor and Chieftain of the Dunedain

Argeleg II and Arveleg II, no, they’re not father and son. Kings of the Arthedain. There’s nothing else about them, except that during Argeleb’s reign, there was the great plague of the Third Age, so that puts him above most of the other kings for relevance.

Arahad II: chieftain of the Dunedain

Arathorn II: aka Gilraen’s husband

Aragorn II, son of Arathorn, Heir of Isildur

Interestingly, Arvedui, while an important figure, is the first and last of his name, but then again, I guess you can’t have two kings called “The Last One”.

Kings of Gondor

Atanatar Alcarin, “The Glorious”, whose reign represents the summit of Gondor’s power. Guess what? He was Atanatar II

Romendacil II: okay this one is an interesting one, and one of my obscure faves. (Seriously, Gondor’s history is fascinating). Seemingly one the great kings Gondor had. Per ROTK, Appendix A he “was a man of great vigour, and in 1240 Narmacil, to rid himself of all cares, made him Regent of the realm.” Interesting because he’s the first and last Regent, Gondor apparently had. A sort of proto-Stewardship? Why was the title not used after that? But anyway, guy ruled Gondor, in his uncle’s, then father’s and finally in his own name. Also first one to reach out toward the Northmen, to conclude alliances with them. Invited some Northmen to serve in Gondor’s armed forces. Send his son and heir to Vidugavia’s court. So generally open-minded. Good captain, crushed the Easterlings. Also built the pillars of the Argonath. On the downside, his policy concerning the Northmen led to the Kin-Strife.

Hyarmendacil II and Narmacil II : unremarkable

Eärnil II : penultimate King of Gondor. Also one the greats. See the pattern, yet?

Stewards

Belecthor II : under his office, the White Tree died.

Turin II : built Henneth Annun

Ecthelion II, Denethor II, and Boromir would-have-been-II

Durin’s Line

Technically there has been a Durin II, however, nothing is said about him. We know Durin III was given one of the Seven Rings, by Celebrimbor, and Durin VI awoke the Balrog in the Moria.

Nain II : only thing we know is that his son, Dain I, was killed by a dragon.

And then come-on Tolkien, it’s getting ridiculous

Thrain II : died in Dol Guldur,

his son Thorin II Oakenshield

Dain II Ironfoot, who ends up King under the Mountain.

Interestingly enough, all Kings of Rohan have a unique name.

Same goes for the Kings of Numenor, except that there are two Amandil and Elendil, who bookend the Numenor era.

Tar Amandil, second ruling King of Numenor and his son Tar Elendil.

And then we have the Lords of Andunië, Amandil and his son Elendil, who then becomes the first High King of the Numenoreans in exile. Both are descendants of Tar Amandil and Tar Elendil, through Elendil’s daughter, Silmariën.

Also there’s King Bard II of Dale, succeeds his father during the War of the Ring.

#lotr #good ol jirt #tolkien and his weird obsessions #third age #gondor #arnor #denethor #boromir #aragorn #dain ii ironfoot #thorin oakenshield

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askmiddlearth · 10 years

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Gondor and Rhun

The territory wasn't too specifically outlined, but we do know that it was to the east, and generally between Rhovanion and "east to the inland sea of Rhun". Below is an excerpt from Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle Earth that outlines what she's concluded to be the territory of Rhun (labeled "East-Lands.")

Gondor actually conquered this area a few different times. The first was around 550TA, when King Turambar attacked the Easterlings of Rhun in retaliation for killing his father. Turambar was, obviously, very successful, and ended up adding a great deal of territory to Gondor. Unfortunately, Gondor wasn't able to keep control of the land for very long.

The second time was in 1248TA, under the rule of King Romendacil II (born Minalcar). It's possible that the space conquered would have been even greater than Turambar's, since it's mentioned that Romendacil even destroyed the settlements east of the sea of Rhun (though it might have just been on the eastern shore of the sea, for all we know.) Romendacil's conquest in Rhun earned him the name "East-Victor", and he had the Argonath built soon after, to emphasize Gondor's expanded territory. Again, though, Gondor wasn't able to hold control of Rhun for long.

Finally, Rhun was conquered - or at least subdued - during Aragorn's reign in the Fourth Age. In fact, Tolkien tells us that Aragorn and Eomer fought "beyond the Sea of Rhun and on the far fields of the South." And though Tolkien doesn't specify, it's likely that this last try was more successful. Even if the Reunited Kingdom didn't technically conquer Rhun, the idea is that the Easterlings would no longer have been enemies of Gondor and the Men of the West.

SOURCES: LOTR Appendices, The Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad

#gondor #rhun #third age #Fourth Age #romendacil ii #turambar of gondor #aragorn #eomer #men of middle earth #Reunited Kingdom #minalcar

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bretwalda-lamnguin · 1 month

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I’ve said before that I find Denethor and Ecthelion’s relationship strange. Denethor is clearly very competent, very dutiful and very Númenorian. You’d think he’d be seen as the perfect heir to the Stewardship, and yet his relationship with Ecthelion seems abysmal. Ecthelion prefers Thorongil over him, despite them giving him basically the same counsel.

I think I’ve managed to wrangle a set of headcanons that make sense to me. Most of this is speculation, but hopefully in character.

Denethor saw himself as being destined to lead Gondor during a time of great need, and Sauron’s return to Mordor happens when he is in his early 20s. Turgon still lived, with Ecthelion as his heir. Denethor’s power and cunning were presumably obvious from a young age. Perhaps by this point he was already better thought of than Ecthelion by some.

Ecthelion seems to have been a competent leader, and certainly no fool. The appendices call him “a man of wisdom”, but this seems a far cry from Denethor’s description:

“a proud man, tall, valiant, and more kingly than any man that had arisen in Gondor for many lives of men; and he was wise also, and far-sighted, and learned in lore.”

“A masterful lord, holding the rule of all things in his own hand.”

In this context, Ecthelion almost seems to be being damned with faint praise. Denethor was dutiful and did not take that which he did not see as his right. He made no claim on the throne. His use of the Palantir however shows great self-confidence, which along with his belief of being destined to lead Gondor and the old Húrinionath tradition of being led not by the most senior but most competent man of their family may have led to strife with Ecthelion.

I think shortly after Turgon’s death Denethor made Ecthelion an offer, to make Denethor joint or sole regent to rid himself of the troubles of ruling, similar to Romendacil II with his father and uncle. Ecthelion took this (understandably but wrongly) as Denethor threatening him and plotting a coup. This shatters their relationship and leads to Ecthelion’s close relationship with ‘Thorongil’. He’s the perfect answer to Denethor, removes any need for dependence on his son and is undoubtedly loyal (while also serving as a surrogate son). Thorongil is a perfect shield for Ecthelion, and Denethor’s rivalry with him keeps Ecthelion’s position safe.

This holds until Ecthelion begins to show his age. Unable to rule anymore, he’s forced to concede more power to Denethor, who now starts to take up the regency. Aragorn is backed into a corner in this potential powder keg and decides to take his victory at Umbar and quit while he’s ahead.

This also neatly parallels Denethor's own relationship with Faramir. Ecthelion believes Denethor is disloyal because his duty to Gondor outweighs his duty to his father. Denethor in turn sees Faramir as disloyal because his duty to his own moral code outweighs his duty both to his father and his country.

#denethor ii #ecthelion ii #aragorn #húrinionath #lotr #i think denethor would be sincere but misguided in this #he sees ecthelion's heart is troubled by sauron and tries to offer him a noble way out #or at least to share that burden #while taking up what he sees as his destiny #but it just ends up making everything worse

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bretwalda-lamnguin · 2 years

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Ecthelion’s and Denethor’s relationship seems very strange to me. Denethor was Ecthelion’s obvious heir from birth, and as he grew up was obviously a good one. He is implied or outright stated to be handsome, clever, dutiful, brave and gifted with great mental powers which must have been obvious from a fairly young age. According to the appendices he was more kingly than any man in Gondor for many lives of Men. Was Denethor simply too grim for his father’s liking? Did he often argue with Ecthelion, and if so, what about? Denethor and Faramir have obvious differences, but Ecthelion often took Thorongil’s (Aragorn’s) advice, and he and Denethor were said to agree on almost everything. Did Denethor often overstep his authority or push its limits (a bit like Faramir maybe?)? Was his failure to marry until late on and produce an heir a source of contention? He seems a capable military strategist, but is a bit of a risk taker preferring a complicated plan of defence in depth to just pulling back to Minas Tirith, the strongest point. Did Ecthelion think he was too rash and aggressive? Is this to do with him retaking Osgiliath? Did his marriage to Finduilas anger Ecthelion? Finduilas was the second daughter, Ivriniel the elder and more obvious match, it may have been seen as a slight. Was he scared or jealous of Denethor’s power, fearing he would eclipse him, or maybe even try to overthrow him? Perhaps a bit ironic since both Denethor and Thorongil had their eye on his position. Or knew that Denethor would likely have the greater legacy, leaving him a footnote in history?

Or maybe Denethor was the initiator of the conflict, and was unhappy with his father’s rule? Perhaps he saw himself as a Romendacil II figure, seeking to become regent while his father still lived as only he could face the crisis to come. Tolkien did say he saw himself as being destined to lead Gondor in its desperate time. Perhaps he always brooked no rival? Maybe Ecthelion wasn’t doing enough in Denethor’s eyes to prepare, and he tried constantly to outmanoeuvre his father and take greater control. Maybe he knew he needed the Palantir, and it would not recognise him as a rightful user until he was steward. Denethor is definitely cunning and has a ruthless streak, but attempting a coup or violating Gondor’s laws seems very out of character for someone devoted to tradition and duty.

Its interesting, and I haven’t seen an answer put forward that doesn’t make Ecthelion or Denethor look incompetent or just outright awful, and while I would definitely say I have a worse opinion of Ecthelion I don’t think he was that bad. He did seem to take advice from others, and clearly wasn’t just outright blind to the seriousness of the situation. There’s a definite parallel between Denethor and Faramir and Ecthelion and Denethor, but I can clearly see how the first developed, I struggle with the second.

#denethor ii #ecthelion ii #húrinionath

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