#repugnant fan fiction

[her-satanic-wiles]

October 23rd

Deepthroating & Facesitting, Mary Goore x Reader

Masterlist

Words: 2.9k

Warnings: Deepthroating; skull fucking; face sitting; public; exhibitionism; sex in a cemetery; cunnilingus; fingering; fellatio; vaginal sex; piv; unprotected sex; fear play; biting; elements of dubcon but not really dubcon; rough sex; praise kink; degradation kink (you know the drill by now); hair pulling; watersports;

Taglist: @sodoswitchimage @enchantedbunny @bitchywitchygardener @thew0man @sodomiser @the-did-i-ask @copias-sewer-rat @gehrmansbignaturals @deetz-ghuleh @onlyhereforghost @zombiesnips-blog

🔞 MDNI 🔞

As this is dark fiction, I'm choosing to rate it 21+. Please respect my rating. Thank you.

In the quiet, serene, and solemn embrace of the mist-laden morning, you walked hand in hand with Mary and ventured into the ancient, moss-covered graveyard - a morning tradition that spun the entire length of October. The misty air shrouded the weathered, weather-beaten tombstones, creating an eerie, mystical atmosphere. Tall, gnarled trees with their twisted, skeletal branches cast long, haunting shadows on the hallowed ground below. Your steps echo softly on the cobblestone path, leading you deeper into the melancholic, hauntingly beautiful cemetery.

It was always silent this early in the morning, even the birds were still asleep as your footsteps tracked through the frost-bitten grass and chilly gravel beneath you. Every snap of a twig in the distance had your heart pounding with worry and Mary’s throat to come alive with a chuckle. This was the perfect scene for a horror movie: two lovers exploring a place they shouldn’t be getting picked off individually by a mysterious stranger using the mist as a cloak. Mary would be the first to go; and you’d find him battered and bruised but alive, only to watch him suffer and perish at the hands of a monster.

A crypt sat in one of the corners of the cemetery, proud yet ominous with its intimidating Gothic arched door and stone walls. The glass windows were dirty with decades - if not centuries - of dirt, and the heavy, mahogany door, weather-damaged and rotting, was locked tightly shut by a rusted chain and lock. The crypt once belonged to the town’s founding father, the wealthiest family in the cemetery. For as long as you’d known him, Mary had been desperate to get inside to piss on the richest coffin around but he’d always been unsuccessful. Today, though, he wanted to try again.

You watched him rattle the door, hands wrapped firmly around the rusted handles and tug on it, trying to shift it even a little but to no avail. “I’m gonna go check the back,” he announced, “wait right here.”

“Mary, can’t we just carry on and enjoy the place while we still have it?”

“Babe, if we can get in there, just think of what I could do to you.” He winked and placed a kiss to your forehead. “Stay here. I’ll come back and get you.”

You don’t know why you did as he asked you to. You weren’t scared per se, the silence of the cemetery filled you with nothing but peace and you felt safe in the knowledge that most of the surrounding residents were still tucked up in bed as the sun was beginning to rise. But you were still exceptionally cautious, knowing that it was all the normal people who were in bed. The crazies were up and wandering as you stood there: the drug addicts, the dunkards, the criminals who operated under the shadow of the night were also out and about, making their way home after a night of who-knows-what. Ghosts didn’t scare you. The dead didn’t make you afraid - but the living did.

You tried to peak into the crypt, wiping some of the dirt with your index finger but realising it was pointless when you saw the layer that had swiped off onto your hand. You weren’t even sure what you were trying to see, perhaps you were just looking for something to do. But your concentration turned out to be a detriment to you, and the reason why what happened next occurred.

All you heard were two heavy footsteps thumping quickly on the dead leaves surrounding the crypt before hands came and gripped your body, the force of it causing you to drop your bag to the floor. A weight pushed you further into the stone walls and pinning you against them, one of those hands gripped onto your hip, the other came up to your mouth to silence you. A whimper escaped you, muffled by the cold hand of the person behind you - a whimper of fear, certainly, but there was an element of arousal in it too.

“You looked so delicious standing there alone and scared.” Mary’s voice sounded in your ear, so low it was almost a growl. “You looked so fuckin’ vulnerable. Easy pickings.” He pressed his body further into yours and you could feel his cock, rock solid but restrained in his jeans. “I can’t wait until we get home, baby girl. I’m taking you now whether you like it or not.”

His hand that was on your hip began groping whatever body part it could find. At first, he grasped hold of your ass cheek and firmly held it, but then he moved higher and higher until he was groping your breast, rough with his touches and squeezing you as he pleased. His mouth, now silent, moved closer to your ear and trapped the sensitive appendage between his teeth, nibbling and biting a little harder than usual. He released your mouth from his hand knowing that you wouldn’t let out an unwanted scream, and used that hand to fiddle with your clothes, pulling your skirt up to give him access to your panties. “Thank fuck you’re wearing a skirt today, baby.” He commented as he rutted himself into you, seeking desperate pleasure from your body.

Your panties were quite literally ripped off your hips - the sound of the fabric tearing filling up the surrounding cemetery and making you gasp at the force he’d used. Once you were bare for him, he gripped onto your shoulders, turned you round and pushed you to your knees. His hands came to work at his jeans, undoing them and freeing himself from them. “When you need to tap out, what do you do?”

“Tap you three times.”

“Good fucking girl. Now, open up for me.”

You braced yourself for impact, knowing that the mood he was in meant you were in for a rough but exciting ride; and of course you were right. He fed you his cock, inch by inch, ignoring your gag reflex and any uncomfortabilities you may have had and forced his way down your throat, groaning at the sensation of your tight, wet heat enveloping him. His hand flew to your head, fingers tangling in your hair as his mouth opened and he exhaled slowly, the subsequent intake sounding like a hiss. The first few thrusts were merciful, gentle, kind, tentative, enough to get you used to feeling his sizable length stuffed down your windpipe. But after that he became demonic.

His thrusts were nearly violent with how sharply he moved. His hand held your head as still as it possibly could be, trapping you where you knelt and using your face like his own personal fucktoy. It was his hand doing most of the guiding, pulling your head back and forth by your hair. He tipped his head back and let his mouth fall wide open. “Oh, fuck!” He growled. Every time you gagged around him, he chuckled at you. He found it amusing to hear you struggling to take him every time he shoved himself down your throat, but he’d be lying if he said he didn’t commit those sounds to his memory and used them when you weren’t around.

He pulled your head off of him completely and let you catch your breath, laughing a little at you gasping for air and refilling your lungs as much as you could before his second onslaught. You also took this opportunity to fill your mouth with as much saliva as you could, knowing that Mary preferred a sloppier feel. He loved it when you got filthy, when your own spit would drip down your face and hang off your chin like a cheesy porno. You took this opportunity to use your hands and jerk him off a little, but eventually he grew tired and slapped your hand away. You took him back in your mouth and readied yourself for round two.

This time, he gathered all your hair into a ponytail and used that to pull you back and forth, slamming himself down your throat despite the gags and groans you made. Your nose repeatedly hit his well-groomed pubic mound, kept nice and neat for this very purpose. “That’s it.” He praised through gritted teeth. “Take it all down your fucking throat. Such a slut. Letting yourself get face-fucked in the middle of a fuckin’ cemetery. Fucking hell. Your throat is incredible. I don’t do this enough. Shit!” He bit his lip and groaned when you looked up at him, tears in your eyes from the exertion. The doe-eyed look you often gave him drove him insane, his own corruption kink coming to the forefront and losing himself in the thought of soiling something so pristine as you. Of course, you were just as filthy as he was, but you certainly didn’t look it.

“What’s this?” He asked, his eyes now fixated on your hands. While he’d been fucking your throat, you decided that it was too much to bear and dipped your hands under the hem of your skirt giving yourself the sweet relief you’d been craving since he pinned you against the walls of the crypt. “The little whore likes being face-fucked in a cemetery?” He tugged you off his cock and you stopped playing with yourself. “No, keep going! Don’t let me stop you slutting yourself out in public. You want my mouth, baby girl?”

You nodded.

He jerked your head back again by your hair. “Ah, ah. Tell me.”

“Yes! I want your mouth!”

“Aw,” he cooed, “desperate little slut. On your back for me.”

He guided you to lie on your back, and lifted your skirt, staring at your cunt that was now glistening from the slick of your arousal. You could feel the wet, morning dew from the grass seeping through into your clothes as you lay there, but that just turned you on even more to know he had you lying on the cold ground so he could take what he wanted from you. You wanted him just as badly as he wanted you. He stared down his nose at you, a somewhat evil grin on his face. He was about to make you suffer and you were so excited for it.

He moved to your head and lowered himself down so he was hovering above your mouth. “Open wide again, baby.” He told you. When you obeyed, he fed himself into your throat once more, but this time he’d leaned forward and took your cunt into his mouth, too, his cock brutally riding your face and taking his own pleasure from you.

Your hips bucked as much as they could from being pinned down by Mary’s entire weight on top of you as his lips quickly encircled your clit and started sucking as hard as they could. The tip of his tongue moved wildly, working different parts of your clit in different directions while he kept his mouth shut around you. His ministrations were intense and rough as he worked to get you to orgasm as quickly as he could, moving his head in all directions and sucking on your tender bud to keep the onslaught going. He was everywhere all at once - you could feel him everywhere. Mind clouded with nothing but him, scent, sight, taste. even his grunts and groans filled your ears more than the wind rustling the trees in the distance.

He continued in this manner constantly, ruthlessly pushing you ever-closer to the edge. Until his unrelenting motions caused your nails to dig into his bare ass as a warning you were about to cum. And so, reluctantly, he pulled himself out of your throat and continued his ministrations until you were cumming, loudly, around his tongue. Your eyes were screwed tightly shut as you came, teeth digging into your bottom lip to curb some of that volume as you screamed out for him. Your nails continued to grip onto his flesh as the entire world went black for just a brief moment, and eventually, when it was fine for him to do so, he released you from his mouth and climbed off you.

He seemed just as out of breath as you were, but he hadn’t cum yet, and therefore he certainly wasn’t finished with you. “Hands and knees,” he ordered, “ass in the air.”

Your back was hit with a wall of cold air as the damp cloth was exposed to the autumnal morning breeze. You spread yourself out for him, elbows to the ground and ass in the air, ready to receive whatever he would give you next.

He didn’t wait for your cunt to get used to his size; instead, he grabbed your hips and thrust all the way to the end. “Take that fucking cock.”

He started working right away, snapping his hips against yours quickly and hitting your cervix which made you scream every time. “Fuck, Mary!” You yelled.

Mary always felt wonderful inside of you because he was long and slender, stretching you out beautifully. By the time he was finished with you, you were typically a shaking, aching mess on the bed, unable to even think or breathe.

Your ass jiggled more than usual as you arched your back for him once more and moved your hips to meet his thrusts. He let out a string of profanities, each one reminding you of how much of a whore you were to him and how tight your pussy felt around him, how you got tighter every time a branch snapped in the distance or a solitary car drove by. How you got off knowing that someone could catch you getting fucked by your partner in one of the most wildly inappropriate places to ever exist.

He reached forward and grabbed your hair, pulling it once more by the roots to gain leverage and allow himself to bury deep inside of you over and over again.

Your hand reached down to play with your clit once more, fervently rubbing yourself in time with his rough thrusts to try and tip you over the edge.

“Fucking shit, always so tight for me.” He saw your pussy cream accumulating at the base of his cock and let out another growl. You felt so fucking good, and you were getting tighter and tighter by the second. “Baby,” he said, “I know we couldn’t get in there for me to piss on his coffin, but there’s another monument I could.”

You raised your eyebrows, and he didn’t miss the way your hand sped up at the thought. “O-on me?” You asked.

“Can I?”

“Fuck. Mary, do it.”

“Yeah? Move that fucking hand so I can piss on that filthy cunt of yours.”

You did as you were told and shuddered at the feeling of Mary pulling out of you, your hole twitching at the sudden emptiness and screaming for stimulation. You couldn’t see what Mary was doing behind you, but oh fuck did you feel it. It was a slow trickle at first but when the stream built up, and was angled right, it hit your clit perfectly just like the head of your shower did. The constant stream, however short it actually lasted, felt like it went on forever as it continuously hit that perfect spot, making your eyes roll back into your head. It took just a little more time and suddenly you were diving headfirst into another orgasm, the sensitivity of your first and the violent pounding of Mary’s cock beforehand leading you into a powerful second one. Mary’s fingers replaced his piss to finish you off, rubbing roughly to keep you frozen and cumming as hard as possible.

He could barely wait until you’d stopped convulsing, and shoved himself back inside you as soon as he could. “Filthy slut,” he chastised, hands gripping onto your hips as he pushed you flush to the ground and took what he wanted. His left hand was still wet from his piss and your cum, and you could feel it on your skin. “Can’t believe you just came from me pissing on you. What a depraved, cock-hungry little whore - so desperate to cum she’ll let me do anything to her.” Your hands dug into the hallowed soil, gripping tightly to ground you as he got rougher and rougher, slamming against your cervix each time and forcing you to cry out. “I’ll piss in your mouth next time. You want that, hm?”

“Yes! Fucking hell! Mary!” You didn’t care how loud you were, and neither did he.

“Or maybe I’ll piss inside your cunt next time, and punish you if any slips out - oh fuck - c-cumming!”

He let out a deep and gutteral groan as he came inside you, hips stilling to a halt and emptying his balls as deep as he possibly could. All his weight was on you, trapping you between him and the graveyard’s soil. Your own pubic mound resting in the puddle of piss that had formed underneath you both the more he pushed you down and held you still. He thrust tentatively, making sure you took every last drop of him. He let himself fall forward, and kissed your shoulder tenderly as if he hadn’t just beat up your pussy and abused you like a madman.

“Fucking hell that was the hottest thing we’ve ever done.” You said as you both were catching your breaths.

He grunted in agreement, still kissing your clothed shoulder and moving up to nibble and lick at your ear. “We’d better get you in the shower, eh?”

“Check my bag, there should be some tissues in there.”

He pulled out of you, both of you wincing at the loss again, and when he returned, he made sure to gently clean you as best as he could. But he’d make sure he’d clean you up properly when you both took a shower at home.

Previous Day ⛧ Next Day

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[megachaoticstupid]

“Not a valentine” valentine

You don’t remember who exactly suggested this idea between you both, but since both, you and Mary, didn’t have a partner, you agreed to go with them on a friendly “date” in one of the pubs on Valentine day.

Word count: 3926

Trigger warnings: mostly fluff, idiots to lovers, but there are a little bit of a creepy man, blood and sexual harassment (i am sorry), and a small fight.

Author's note: Happy Valentine day if you are celebrating, and if not, then Happy Wednesday! I want once again give huge thanks to @her-satanic-wiles for being patient with me and so supportive. Thank you ❤ And a lot of thanks to @gothdaddyissues for the amazing divider.

You don’t remember who exactly suggested this idea between you both, but since both, you and Mary, didn’t have a partner, you agreed to go with them on a friendly “date” in one of the pubs. It was their favourite – “veritas”. They loved to snicker at the name and saying that all the creativity went only on the name, for other shit imagination ran dry. And you always rolled your eyes, knowing that they will drag you or your friends here after every gig the band had.

Usually, pub was occupied with several regulars here and there and some fresh blood who came to scream into a karaoke machine and get wasted. It was fun, in times rowdy, and the wine here was fine. But, unexpectedly for you, today the pub is crowded as hell. You see it through the window not believing it at first, but as the door swings open, you are surprised to see a lot of people are either here with their partner having the time of their life or by themselves drinking and just chilling. In the small plaque near the window, you see: “Every third glass is for free”. No wonder it is crowded.

The atmosphere is slightly all over the place. You never saw the interior ever decorated. Even on Christmas it was pretty chill and you loved that Jimmy, the owner of the pub, just never gave a fuck about it. Now, it is covered with cute little hearts, paper frills and pink paper chains. But from the speakers, despite pink romantic mood, blasts “Jolene” by Dolly Parton. You both freeze in your tracks, taking in everything and look at each other slightly dumbfounded. After a moment, your friend shrug their shoulders and enter. You follow them and the door closes, trapping you in the pink world.

To you, crowds were always slightly intimidating, threatening to absolve and part you from your friends, so now you almost cling to Mary, grabbing them by the hand and their shirt. They squeeze back reassuringly, navigating through a crowded place with an ease which could have surprised you if it was someone else. And you were not surprised when they got a small table in the far corner of the pub, almost threatening two dudes to leave the seats Mary booked weeks prior. You sit down, smiling at your friend and then roll your eyes.

“Are you always this scary, Goore? Dudes almost pissed themselves.”

“Sweetheart, I had to butter up Jimmy so we can have this small corner for ourselves. And I don’t hear your praises, you know how Jimmy is. The man is a menace.”

They shake their head pretending to be offended by your lack of gratitude and you smile even wider at them. Mary are so cute when they pout, at least to you. Still smiling at them, you squeeze their hand and put your other on your chest a little bit pompously.

“Mary, even the bards of the past will never find words for your bravery and your self-sacrificing nature. And both of them you showed trying to save a table for the two of us in this smelly pub on February 14th!”

You give them a shit-eating grin and then wince when they flicker you on your forehead and roll their eyes.

“Sorry, I am really grateful for that and happy to have fun with you today”

You smile at them apologetically; your words speak truth. Anything is better than spending this day alone and thinking about your ex and how everything was fucked up from the start. And, spending time with Mary for you is better than anything else. Your small crush not helping these feelings. For you, spending any spare time with them was always fun and giggles as they always found the ways to distract you from anything, supporting and comforting you with their presence and actions. They always made you feel like home and for that only you were always grateful.

You look them in the eyes, waiting for their response, hand in their hand as you both seat in the corner of the pub, drunk people all around you and another song about broken hearts blasts from the speakers, drowning you both in the cacophony of acoustic guitar riffs and somber voice of the musician. You smile at them and they almost immediately smile back, forgetting about their “wounded” feelings, squeezing your hand.

A quick thought rushes in your head. A treacherous one, whispering to you, that this evening looks almost like a cheesy real date with Mary, and on the Valentine Day of all days. You squish it quickly, suppressing your thoughts and putting them in the box in the back of your mind. Your cheeks still blush as you remove your hand from theirs and quickly start putting away your winter jacket. If Mary were a little bit disappointed by this, they didn’t show it, puzzled look swiftly disappearing and a mischievous smile playing on their lips as they also undress.

“So, sweetheart, what do you want for our “Not valentine” valentine day?”

They ask, their eyes are glinting in the dim lights of the pub and you smile back, shrugging your shoulders and look at the bartender. Jimmy looked really down and sad, serving drinks to the customers almost with a solemn reverence, bobbing his head to the beat of the song. You sigh, looking at him and shake your head. Mary looks in the same direction

“Divorce doesn’t suit him well”

They say, also shaking their head and sighing as you looked at him quizzically, quirking a brow.

“Sure thing, Mary, no one glows up when they divorce with their loved ones. It is hurtful”

You might have added too many emotions in your answer, as you notice them looking with sympathy at you and taking your hand in theirs. It feels awkward all of a sudden, so they try to joke

“Well, his ex certainly glowed up, getting a lover, Jimmy’s car and flat”

You scoff at their tone, but it helps you to relax a little. You look again at Jimmy and nod

“Well, I hope he will get better eventually. He still has his pub”

You both quiet down. Looking at the sheet of menu, none of you need it, but still using it as you both feel slightly awkward to be together in the sea of lovesick couples. Your hand is still in Mary’s, held tight and reassuringly. You look at them as a hold your breath. Their messy black hair styled in front of their face, their make-up and fake blood and favourite tee with their favourite band – all of that make them look so comfortable and beautiful to you. But you also notice, that they tried to look presentable today: make up applied perfectly, their cologne is pleasant and overall appearance is not as crunchy and messy as they usually love to appear. At the thought that they tried, even though they didn’t have to, your heart starts beating faster. And you try to calm yourself, when they go to order, hand on your stupid tender heart, as you just try to reason with it. After all, Mary is a friend, not a potential interest. And you repeat this thought, looking at them and their hips as they walk up to the bar.

After their return, you begin to have your own fun. Alcohol always made you mushy and braver, so, after a few glasses of wine, you forget about any shyness that you feel around Mary today, fully relaxing and giggling at their stories from their different gigs and jobs. You know half of them already, but it doesn’t stop you from giggling at them, grabbing their arms and resting your head on their shoulder in the fits of laugh when they move their chair to be close to yours. Mary blush at your gestures, laughing with you and at your own stories from work, and as the evening progresses, they place their arm around your shoulders.

You feel happy, bubbly even, and drag Mary on the small dancefloor too excited to hear their protests. “No children” blasts from the speakers, as you place one hand on Mary’s shoulder and the other one in their hand. They chuckle, shake their head and finally hug you by the waist, brining you close to their body, almost squishing you in them. Your breath hitches, his cologne hitting your nose and you can almost hear their heart beating fast under the sternum.

Both of you at first sway a little bit clumsily, making strange pa’s and twirling in each other’s arms. But then you get bolder, laughing to the lyrics, singing them and imitating the lines with your silly gestures, pulling each other close and then lightly pushing away again as if you are an arguing couple. Your laughs bubble in your chest as you dramatically extend your hand to them, singing “Hand in unlovable hand” and they pull you close to them, bringing their hands to your hips and making you sway gentler, slower. You put your arms around Mary’s shoulders, face raised to theirs and your breath mixes as they lean closer.

You see that Mary’s pupils are blown, hands gripping your hips tighter and their face is so close, that you can’t help but have a tiny thought run in your head. What if they kiss you right now? You lean closer, tilting your head for them and they do the same, cupping your cheek and leaning closer as well. Your breath hitches and you flutter your eyes several times. Their thumb gently brushes your cheek and then tilts your head slightly to the side. Mary’s eyes are gentle and have a silent question in them. Words are swirling on your tongue and they all over the place: from the simple “what?” to a crushingly loud “yes!”. But before you answer Jimmy notices you both and yells:

“Mary, come over here for a sec!”

Mary roll their eyes, frustrated sigh leaving their lips

“Be in a sec, sweetheart. Be there.”

They kiss your forehead and quickly go to the bar, looking frustrated. You chuckle nervously, cheeks are burning and stupid butterflies are flying in your stomach. Your heart races in your chest like crazy and your mind is slightly dizzy. You turn around and look at Mary, unsure smile on your lips and as they lean at the bar and argue about something with Jimmy, they steal a glance at your side and smile broadly with a wink, when they see you watching.

Your smile grows, blush deepens and, as a way to calm down yourself, you sway absentmindedly to the music, waiting for Mary to return. Even if your thoughts are hectic about everything that happened and almost happened, looking at them, hell, being with them feels you with peace and comfort. They make you feel like no one else before, so you let yourself dream about several what if’s, knowing and believing, that they don’t feel the same about you.  

And then, in the moment of peace your feel someone’s hands on your hips. You freeze, mind registering everything that happens: the smell of alcohol, their grabby hands groping your hips and thighs and murmurs in your ear.

“Such a beauty and all alone?”

You blood boils, disgust feels you up. The fight-or-flight response kicking in and suddenly to your assaulter, you turn and punch them without any plan. All you want now is for them to feel pain for daring to grope you. Something crunches under your knuckles, your hand hurts and a yelp leaves the man’s lips, as he grabs his bleeding nose.

Anger courses through your veins and you want to punch him more, to rub into their pain, but you are not quick enough as Mary almost jump in front of you, shielding you and then grabbing the man by his shirt and landing another punch in his face. If looks could kill, your assaulter would be laying in a pile of bones on the floor. He stands up slowly, swaying a little bit, but then throws a punch at Mary’s face, which is caught, but he immediately throws another and manages to slit your friend’s eyebrow.

You shriek and ask people around you for help, but they only stare as Mary gets punched in the face once again. You see their own blood trickling down their face and you can’t stand it. Before you know, your feet carry you quickly to the brawl and with a scream you knee the man in the crotch. He doubles down, whining in pain. Jimmy interrupts you both immediately, bringing with him two other men to hold Marry back and kick out the pervert. Sizing you both down, the owner sighs and points at the door behind the bar.

“Go bring your idiot boyfriend to the staff room, I have a med kit here. Quick, before I kick you both out.”

He grumbles, and turns to the crowd, calming them down and drawing attention from Mary and you. You don’t even argue with that assumption, too shaken up. Grabbing Mary by the hand, you drag them to a small room and sit them down on the chair. Gently, you take their face in your hands and check the injuries. Their bottom lip is swollen and cut, their left eye is shut, covered with blood and you are sure it will bruise. The cut on Mary’s brow above the said eye, worries you the most, so you grab the med kit and carefully wash their wound, not wishing to hurt them even more. They hiss, closing their eyes and leaning back on the chair, letting you do your work, their hands on your hips, gripping you tightly for comfort.

After cleaning and sanitizing the wound, you take a better look at it. To your relief, it’s not deep, so you blow on it gently to soothe the pain and apply a bandage. You chuckle, as you look at them, the med kit has only pink ones left. Mary frown at you and wince once again in pain, but do not say anything, just watching you as you work on them.

Leaving a gentle kiss on their forehead and earning a pleased grunt from them, you carefully wipe their face from all the blood, fake or not, and inspect their eye now. It is already starting to swell and you sigh, feeling guilty. After all, if you didn’t overreact, they would have been fine. You give them an icepack to help with the swollenness and lean closer to their lip, inspecting it even thoroughly. The bottom lip is swollen and read, the right corner is cut, but Mary are still smiling at you, slightly wincing.

“Do you like my battle scars, sweetheart?”

They smile at you, trying you put your worries at ease and turn everything to a joke:

“Should have seen the other guy, heh?”

You roll your eye and want to smack the on their head for stupid jokes, but instead you clean their wound, maybe, applying a little bit too much pressure and getting another grunt from them.

“Sugar, are you trying to finish what a dickhead back then started? Or, is it a foreplay to something more-”

The don’t finish their joke as you turn their head away to the med kit and then put a small round band aid on their lip. This time with a cute pink heart. Mary wince and drag you to their lap, getting you closer to them and hugging you tightly. Their face changes from teasing to apologetic.

“I am sorry, sweetheart, Are you alright?”

You look at them and hurt swells in your chest. Now, without their make-up, Mary looks so vulnerable, so open to you. The silly band aids play to this picture and you can’t help but smile gently at them, nodding reassuringly.

“You should worry about yourself, Mary”

They roll their eyes and cup your cheek looking at your face, checking you closely and then lower their gaze to you hand. You knuckles are red from the punch you landed. Noting serious, or at least, not as serious as their case, but Mary still frown and bring your hand to their lips, kissing hurt skin gently. Knuckle by knuckle, leaving a small trace of kisses, looking at you with tenderness in their eyes. Then, they kiss your fingers, the back of your hand and finally rest their lips on your wrist, brushing against your quickening pulse as you sit in their lap too surprised to do anything, let alone apologize for the scene you caused. Mary smile happily, sighing contently, as they place your palm against their cheek, breathing in the perfume you applied earlier. They look battered up, but still happy with the situation.

“For a person, who landed the nose-crushing punch, you are so timid now.” They kiss your wrist again. “I love seeing all of your sides.”

They tease again, coaxing from you a reaction, wishing for you to calm down. Mary’s face changes when you don’t and they sigh.

“Sweetheart, are you alright? Does it hurt?”

You shake your head and finally touch them back, sliding your arms on their shoulders and hiding your face in the crook of their neck. They sigh happily, hugging you by the waist and kissing you on the cheek.

“That was for sure a “not valentine valentine”, right? Sorry, our date was ruined.”

You freeze again in his arms, eyes wide as their words register in your mind. Suddenly, you sit up straighter, almost falling from their lap.

“A date?!”

It comes out too loud for your liking, but you can’t help yourself. You are sure that the word “date” was never shared between the both of you. Hell, you never thought that they liked you more than a stupid friend to ask you out. Mary frown at your words, hurt is in their eyes.

“Well, sugar cheeks, yes, a date. Why do you think I tried so hard for it to go smoothly? And why do you think I argued for paying for you and shit?”

You see that they are hurt and covering their feeling with angry words. And you are still bewildered, now finally understanding their behavior. Their blush matches your own, frustration is visible on their face

“I… I just thought, that you were friendly with me, Mary.”

Your voice is trembling and weak, as your eyes seek theirs, but they don’t look at you, lips pressing together in a thin line.

“I was always obvious about my feelings! And I have asked you clearly about this date, so I thought…”

Your eyebrows raise as you feel a mi of emotions run through your veins. To you, they never were open about it. Now, you want to strangle them or kiss them. But you stop at the third option, which can fuck up everything nicely. You always fuck up, so why change?

“How would I know, Mary, if you never fucking tell anything?! You were telling me to go on a “non-valentine valentine”. How should I ever interpret it as a date when you themselves were shitting on Valentine!”

They look up, frustration in their eyes matching yours.

“Oh, really? Did you see me asking out D.D. or Farcas? Maybe Jimmy? Hell, you are the one who refused to accept all of my moves on you, playing them down and then being so affectionate with me again! I know that I am not good for you, way out of your league, but fuck, I wanted to…”

Mary stop themselves sighing and shaking their head. Finally, they look into your eyes and speak slightly gentler

“Never mind, I was too stupid to think that I have a chance.”

Your stomach flips at their word, blush spreading on your face further, coveting your ears. But Mary is already set on the outcome, so they try to stand up, but you press on their shoulders, palms shaking and gripping them almost desperately. In other circumstances, you would have been over the moon from Mary’s sudden confession, even if it is a little bit crude, but now you need to clear something up before celebrating.

“Mary…”

Your voice is soft and tender, your eyes are searching theirs for any hidden feelings, finally seeing in them what they always held for you and only you.

“I always thought that you were friendly with me and I never could have thought that you can feel something more than just friendship towards me.”

You place your hand on their blushing cheek, you heart beats somewhere in your throat and you let out the words you always wanted to tell them.

“I love you. I really do.”

They freeze, looking at you with disbelief, unsure smile spreading on their lips as you look in their eyes. Mary kiss the tip of your nose, breathing shakily. Their arms returning their grip on you, bringing you closer to them. But you see, that they are still full of doubt, so you act before you start overthinking everything that has been said. 

You cup their cheeks, thumbs brushing them, lean your forehead against theirs and ask Mary gently:

“May I kiss you?”

Instead of words, they use their mouth, quickly removing distance between your lips and kissing you fervently. Your teeth clank against each other, their bottom lip hurts when they apply too much pressure and you feel like a teenager, sharing their first kiss with a high school crush. You feel butterflies in your stomach and your own heart beating in your ears, as your fingers slide into their hair and tug on black locks. Mary moan into the kiss, leaning their head back, as their hands grip your hips firmly.

You feel dizzy, both from the lack of air and Mary’s kisses. Finally finding the rhythm, they seem like they can’t get enough of you. They open their mouth for you, welcoming your tongue with theirs as they let their hands roam your body. You, yourself, keep up with their greediness. Your fingers touch Mary’s firm shoulders, traveling down to their torso, reaching the edge of their jeans and then going back up again, earning grunts from them. Your hips involuntary grind on theirs, turning already heated make-out session into a much lewder one, filling up the room with whimpers and moans from the both of you.

When it gets top much for you, you break the kiss, resting your head on their shoulder. Your breath a rapid and shallow and you feel how swollen your lips are. You turn your head and glance up at Mary, noticing that they don’t look much better and that their band aid is missing. They smile at you brightly, wincing slightly from the pain and kiss you on the cheek. Mary’s chest falls quickly, as they try to return their breath back to normal and failing miserably. And, as you place your hand on their chest, you feel that they also can’t calm their heart down.

You smile back at them, feeling content, elated even as they squeeze your waist gently. Mary speak up again.

“So, I guess I should start over again”

They take a deep breathe in, holding you tight, uncertainty leaving their body as they speak.

“I love you. Would you like to go on a date with me?”

You nod and grin at them, bringing Mary for another kiss.

#mary goore fanfiction #mary goore fanfic #mary goore x reader #mary goore #repugnant fan fiction #repugnant #repugnant fanfiction #repugnant band #the band ghost fanfic #the band ghost #ghost band

[fishwithtitz]

we do get a happy ending no?

Depends on which type of happy ending you’re referencing 👀😏

But in all seriousness, we will see some major character development from both Mary and Dahlia in the next few chapters. That’s all I can say without spoilers! 🖤

#the band ghost #ghost band #ghost bc #mary goore #repugnant #repugnant band #mary goore x female character #mary goore x ofc #Mary goore smut #repugnant band fanfic #repugnant fan fiction #mary goore fanfic #5 times with mary goore

[m0rbidmacabre]

I'm sat writing a little One Night with Series of fics… and I'm starting with Mary Goore… I'm feeling creatively sapped this week; so I need to get my hands “dirty?!” 😂😂 is that how you would put it??!! I have my other two fics, I know.. But.. 🥹 saaaappp! Heeeelllppp me Tumblr Ghesties.

#the band ghost #tobias forge #repugnant #ghost fandom #mary goore #ghost fan fiction #ghost fanfiction #mr ghost #ghost #ghost bc #papa emeritus 4 #cardinal copia #ao3 fanfic #fanfic #fanfic help #please help

[angel-archivist]

I hope true crime fans go to hell no matter what 🥰🥰

#Peoples real life suffering and trauma is not your entertainment. #and the exploitation of these families and their stories by popular media is inexcusable and repugnant #the fact not more is done to project these people is so saddening and to see a whole group of people brag about how much #they don’t care when young men of color are killed is so Fucking gross this isn’t the cannibal episode of x files it’s not a competition to #see who’s the most apathetic fucking person #anywho my father just added some more trauma and I’ve been on the verge of a panic attack all night so like take this instead #so I don’t have to think to hard anymore abt what he told me . #Vent #*as in this isn’t fictional these are fictional events or people where u can just gawk at the gore bc the gore is fake and the victims are #fake like being a fan of slashers is literally free and 100 percent more ethical than being a fan of true crime where ppls aftual personhoo #Is striped away and you see so many of the narratives around these stories being about the fucking killer #like they get fucking centered or their actions get excused by the makeup girlies doing makeup while talking abt actual people who were #murdered ahaha

[bethanydelleman]

Unconsciously Done: An Examination of Misogyny in the Treatment of Caroline Bingley in Jane Austen Fan Fiction

This essay is not meant as an attack on any specific author who writes JAFF. It is a criticism of a trend that is very strong in the genre and I find extremely problematic.

It is my firm belief that Jane Austen felt deeply for the plight of women in her era and that her books examine the difficult decisions that women were forced to make because of their secondary position in society. Jane Austen presents women to us who have little power and whose only hope in future provision and comfort lies in the whims of men. Moreover, Jane Austen never in her collected works, asks us to delight in the downfall or destruction of a woman. Given this context, I find it highly distressing and untrue to Jane Austen’s legacy that so often in Jane Austen Fan Fiction (JAFF), authors invite readers to celebrate the degradation of Caroline Bingley. This is a repugnant practice that both goes against the intent of Jane Austen’s works and by attacking a woman in particular is an unconscious display of misogyny.

After the Netherfield Ball, where the Bennet family shocks Elizabeth, Darcy, and Caroline with their vulgar behaviour, Caroline and Darcy agree that it would be better for Charles, Caroline’s brother, not to marry into such a family. Together, they go to London and convince Charles to remain there, away from Jane. Caroline writes to Jane to inform her of this. Later, when Jane follows them to London, Caroline cuts off the friendship, which lasted, we should remember, for only a few weeks. She also works to conceal Jane’s presence in London from her brother. She is aided in this endeavour, again, by Mr. Darcy. Her final act of the book is attempting to embarrass Elizabeth in company at Pemberley and then insulting Elizabeth to Darcy in private.

For the purposes of this argument, I will first lay out what the original Caroline Bingley does in the novel Pride & Prejudice. Caroline dislikes the unmannered inhabitants of Hertfordshire, specifically the Bennet family, a sentiment she shares with Darcy. They make fun of the Bennets behind their backs together in the first section of the book, along with Caroline’s sister Louisa. When Jane Bennet is sick at Netherfield, Caroline is not as attentive to her as Jane’s sister would like, despite spending several hours with her multiple times.

It is important to note several things. Firstly, none of Caroline’s actions cause lasting harm to anyone. In the end, Jane and Charles do marry. Secondly, Caroline is drawn by Jane Austen as a social-climber who is not above using artifice to reach her goals, but her actions are entirely rational within that context. Every action that Caroline makes is a logical expression of her two motivations, a wish to marry Darcy and a wish to see her brother marry well. Thirdly, Caroline is aided in nearly everything she does by Darcy himself. One could speculate that without Darcy’s interference, Charles would have returned to Hertfordshire as he planned. Darcy’s own words imply this, “with a stronger dependence on my judgement than on his own.” (P&P, Ch 35.)

The position of women in Georgian society is made clear through Jane Austen’s works. Women are dependent on their parents or guardians until they marry at which point they are dependent upon their husbands. There are only two acceptable options for women of the gentry, marriage or becoming a governess. When Charlotte Lucas submits to a marriage with Mr. Collins, we are told marriage was the only provision for well-educated young women of small fortune (P&P, Ch 22). Jane Fairfax, in Emma, is so upset with her the profession of governess, that she compares it to slavery (V 2, Ch. 18). Jane Austen is clearly of the opinion that a woman should marry for affection rather than only for wealth, but she acknowledges how difficult this line is to draw when marriage is so vital to a woman's life. Caroline is set up as a representation of a mercenary worldview in Pride & Prejudice. Like many other Jane Austen women, Mary Crawford (Mansfield Park, specifically her early interest in Tom Bertram), Lucy Steele (S&S), and Charlotte Lucas (P&P) for example, Caroline is pursuing a man for wealth rather than love.

Lydia Bennet is another woman whom Jane Austen, in the social morays of the time, could have condemned and invited us to hate. In Mr. Collins letter we hear the morality that would delight in a woman’s downfall, “The death of your daughter would have been a blessing in comparison of this.” (P&P Ch. 48). Yet again, the narrator does not invite us to treat Lydia with scorn. We are reminded of Mrs. and Mr. Bennet’s faulty parenting and that he ignored Elizabeth’s advice, we are reminded of the character of Wickham, and we are assured of Lydia’s future provision. Lydia will not fall into poverty because her two wealthy sisters will protect her. Her sisters do this despite the fact that they had the most to lose from her rash actions. This demonstrates an acknowledgement that all women, despite their faults, deserve to be protected.

It is important to note that while Jane Austen invites the reader to disapprove of these women who marry for money, she does not outright condemn them. Charlotte Lucas’s decision to marry Collins is explained with some compassion. The narrator notes that, “the boys were relieved from their apprehension of Charlotte’s dying an old maid” (P&P, Ch. 22) which again reminds us of the importance of marriage for a woman’s future provision. Maria Bertram (Mansfield Park), who married for money and then committed adultery for love and whose actions are clearly condemned, is still allowed compassion. The narrator mourns that Maria must suffer more than her male counterpart for the offence, "In this world the penalty is less equal than could be wished” (MP, Ch. 48) and Sir Thomas spends a good deal of time blaming himself for not raising his daughter properly, “here had been grievous mismanagement” (MP, Ch 48).

Unlikely as it is for Jane Austen to desire further punishment for Caroline, it is more improbable that she would wish for men to exact that retribution. We are told in the history of Eliza Brandon, (S&S) how much power a man can exert over a woman in their guardianship. Eliza is confined to the house and allowed no pleasures until she submits to a marriage to a man who will treat her with cruelty and steal her fortune. This action is despicable and is presented as such. Yet, many authors write Charles Bingley exerting this same sort of control over his sister, or at least threatening it. They wish for him to cut off her allowance and thus financially constrain her behaviour. They have Charles threaten to disown his sister, who in such stories is under his guardianship, or sometimes even give her money away. Not only is this unnecessary, as Charles already can control his sister’s behaviour to an extent as we see during the visit from Mrs. Bennet when he “forced his younger sister to be civil also” (P&P, Ch 9), it is cruel.

It is unlikely therefore, that Jane Austen meant for us to hate Caroline or take pleasure in her imagined downfall. In the original novel, the ‘punishment’ Caroline receives is equal to her actions, she must endure seeing Elizabeth Bennet raised to the position of mistress of Pemberley. It is the same thing that happens to Lady Catherine de Bourgh, who like Caroline, wants Darcy to marry for wealth rather than affection.

More distressing are the words used by characters in works of JAFF, mostly by men who in Jane Austen’s original works treat women with respect, about how Charles might control this “deviant” sister. These terms are often far harsher than anything used for the correction of Lydia Bennet, whom we know to actually be unmannered and wild. Proposals that Charles, “bring Caroline to heel” are repugnant. Caroline is a human woman, not a dog. However one imagines speech in the Georgian era, these are not words used by Jane Austen. Suggestions that Charles cast her out of the family home or be obliged to lock her up, when not said in jest, are terrifying. In this society, these things could happen and would be catastrophic to Caroline.

Even the mere suggestion that Charles should control his sister’s speech in in a start contrast our exaltation of Elizabeth’s lively manner. Jane Austen allows us to find Mr. Collins distasteful for suggesting that Elizabeth controls her tongue, “and your wit and vivacity, I think, must be acceptable to her, especially when tempered with the silence and respect which her rank will inevitably excite” (P&P Ch. 19). Yet, JAFF authors want Charles to do this to his own sister! Would it be in keeping with the morality of the creator of Elizabeth Bennet to have a man force a woman into silence? Jane Austen gave women voices and ideas in a time when that was counter-cultural, yet 21st century authors, most of them women, want to send Caroline back to the dark ages.

Some authors have this same abuse performed by a husband that Caroline unfortunately marries for money or through "compromise" (a common but likely ahistorical trope), only to find out he is cruel. There are stories that present this outcome as just instead of horrifying. Again, these are 21st century authors, relegating a 19th century woman to a cruel marriage in which she has few rights and little chance of honourable escape. Occasionally Caroline is married to Wickham, and instead of Elizabeth Bennet pitying the match, as she does for her sister Lydia, she often finds it funny or just. The idea that any woman deserves to be trapped in an abusive situation, or have her wealth stolen from her by a deceitful suitor, is again, repulsive.

The final degradation that Caroline faces is also the most troubling: authors repeatedly deprive Caroline of her rationality. Jane Austen’s Caroline is a rational creature, as are all the women that are depicted in her works. Good or bad, Jane Austen’s women are carefully rendered images of real life and they have motivations that guide their actions. Caroline’s two motives were discussed above and her actions are entirely rational based on her goals Even if we dislike Caroline’s reasoning and acts, we ought to respect her humanity. Unfortunately, many works on JAFF, in an effort to create a more villainous character, twist Caroline into an evil, insane, psychopathic version of herself, bent only on cruelty and hatred, without any clear goals.

As for authors who relegate Caroline to a life of perpetual dependence, Jane Austen herself only consigns a single woman to this fate, Miss Bates in Emma. Jane Austen treats Miss Bates with respect and kindness, creating a town around her that takes care of both her physical and emotional needs. Emma is admonished by Mr. Knightley for ridiculing Miss Bates before other members of the community. To Jane Austen, a woman in perpetual dependence should excite pity, not disgust or laughter. Miss Bates also is granted a voice and we, along with Emma, are encouraged to listen to her and respect her value as a person.

The reason that all of this is so disturbing and repugnant is because these words are written by modern authors, people who should understand how oppressive and wrong the subjugation of women was in the Georgian era. For those authors, many of them women, to attack a fellow woman with the very tools of the patriarchy that we have ourselves struggle to throw off and fight against is horrid. Jane Austen does not resort to these methods; Caroline Bingley is not bent under the power of her male guardians in Pride & Prejudice. The only woman who is, Eliza Brandon, is an example we are supposed to pity, not scorn.

Worse, Mr. Darcy himself is an active participant in almost every bad action of Caroline. Yet, while Darcy is forgiven completely, and often given excuses like shyness for his actions, Caroline is again and again vilified. It is a double standard of the worst kind and one that especially female authors should recognize as unfair and unjust. Yes, we do not see Caroline’s apology or reformation in Pride & Prejudice, but she is also not a main character. Many JAFF works almost seem to forget Darcy’s interference or rudeness towards Jane and the rest of the Bennet family. He is excused and Caroline is hated and destroyed.

Instead of a human with rational motives, JAFF authors imagine Caroline as a demon. Caroline becomes a playhouse mirror imagine of Elizabeth, who is often turned into a “Mary-Sue” or a picture of perfection. This Carrie-Sue (credit to Amelia Marie Logan, who coined the term) acts in a way that Caroline of Pride & Prejudice never would. Carrie-Sue attacks and insults people in public without motive, including her own brother; she continues to pursue Darcy after he is married; she continually attempts to “compromise” him; and she will do anything no matter the cost. She is a grotesque in the worst sense of the word and she is not of Jane Austen.

If there is one overall thesis of Jane Austen’s works, it is that women are rational creatures. Elizabeth Bennet and Sophia Croft (Persuasion) actually use that term explicitly, but every heroine in Jane Austen demonstrates this same theme. We see inside their heads and we understand their humanity. Even the women we are meant to despise display rationality. Fanny Dashwood of Sense & Sensibility for example, talks her husband out of giving money to his sisters because she is greedy. Lucy Steele lashes out against Elinor Dashwood because she is fearful of losing her one chance at financial security: Edward Ferrars. Mrs. Norris (Mansfield Park), probably the cruellest woman in Jane Austen’s works, abuses her niece because she cannot bear her own inferiority to the Bertram family. She relieves her own feelings of dependence by pushing her niece further below herself. All of the actions of these women are despicable, but they also follow cogent motivations.

This is especially problematic because it is almost always Caroline who faces this treatment. Wickham, a character who actually deserves the term “villain”, is allowed rational motives, most often lust, revenge, and greed. He is allowed to retain his humanity and his mind; it is a woman who is deprived of hers. As I have stated, I believe this is done without malice on the part of the authors, but I would ask them to reflect on every instance, for I know there have been many i their own lives, where another person has deprived them of their humanity based on their gender. It is a pervasive problem that persists in our modern society and we ought not perpetuate it in our works of fiction.

To conclude, Jane Austen does not delight in the destruction, humiliation, or subjugation of women. If we wish as JAFF authors, and as women, to honour Jane Austen’s legacy, then we should refrain from doing those very things and from depriving a woman of her rational mind. The treatment of Caroline Bingley in JAFF is a form of misogyny and as such it should be stopped. This is important because while Caroline Bingley is of course fictional, the representation of women in fiction can perpetuate stereotypes and prejudices in real life. Jane Austen wanted to tell the world, through her fiction, that women are humans worth listening to and worth respecting. Let us leave Carrie-Sue behind and allow Caroline Bingley to finally live in peace.

#caroline bingley #pride and prejudice #jane austen fan fiction #JAFF #people hating her only makes me want to defend her harder #women are rational creatures #even Caroline #even Lady Catherine #Jane austen never delights in a woman's destruction #not even Mrs. Norris is really punished that much #I call fanon Caroline a Screaming Bag of Evil #fictional women do matter #fiction can shape our biases over time and our expectations of how people act

[megafaunatic]

Sooo, how do feel about When the Angels Left the Old Country then? I was going to check it out, but I'd love more thoughts on it.

I LOVE WHEN THE ANGELS LEFT THE OLD COUNTRY

READ WHEN THE ANGELS LEFT THE OLD COUNTRY BY SACHA LAMB

i just finished reading it for the third time and it came out in: october 2022

it's written in the tone of a classic yiddish folktale in a way that's really refreshing and fun, especially if you're used to reading books that don't have a ton going on stylistically - it's technically YA, but definitely doing something different from most other YA in terms of sheer style while remaining a very fun coming of age story for both the human and angelic characters. on a craft level it's excellent!

all the characters are super fun and interesting and well imagined - there's a pretty small core group with a larger ensemble cast, and all of the core characters are REALLY well developed - and even the minor ensemble cast each get moments of narrative insight into their lives and emotional landscapes in a really fun way. AS u May Know i am constantly writing fanned fictioneds but i actually don't really feel the need to write any for angels even tho i love it so much, simply bc i mostly just don't have anything to add!

my commentary earlier re: angels containing textual homophobia & antisemitism refers to those as intentional threats in the story, NOT like . "ohh angels is homophobic" JUST TO CLARIFY LOL!!!! it is a deeply queer and jewish book and those elements are there on purpose as part of the story being told

to try to elaborate while not totally spoiling, EYE personally really love the way in which the homophobia is present in the story - i DON'T generally want to read characters being called slurs or being violently assaulted - but i Also don't particularly like or appreciate books where homophobia just like magically isn't part of the world, esp with books like angels where it's set essentially in our universe... like, the idea of someone trying to write abt queer characters navigating the pale of settlement and ellis island and early 20th c nyc Without feeling the threat of homophobia in addition to the antisemitism and ableism and racism that are intrinsic features of those settings... would be repugnant lol

like, there's really only a couple moments where "the idea of homophobia" is specifically invoked, but its reality is BAKED into the ways the characters interact with the world and each other in a really realistic and subtle way. i think lamb does a really good job of like... making it clear what the characters have words for and what they don't. they all know exactly what antisemitism is and how it looks and functions, bc a core part of jewish tradition and celebration is literally just talking about all th times gentiles have tried to destroy jewish people. but the characters DON'T really have words and structures for how they're affected by ableism and homophobia or even really straight up misogyny - the reader is expected to do that work of identification themself in a way i really love

anyway. to anon and to anyone else who has been thinking abt reading when the angels left the old country: you should read when the angels left the old country 🫡

#when the angels left the old country #book rec

[docgold13]

As of Season 7 onward Rick does seem to be becoming a better person. He successfully killed Rick Prime but it left him shaken in the aftermath & he appears to be treating Morty & the rest of the Family better. How long that'll stick time will tell but I'm just happy that Rick's no longer Dan Harmon's self-insert god character to cope with being an Alchoholic Divorcee like he was since Season 3.

This is a show that I’ve enjoyed watching…. But will never engage in an online discourse over.

I tried once to look up the term ‘Asimov Cascade’ mentioned in an episode… because it was an unfamiliar term to me and I’m a big Asimov fan. …and was assailed by some of the most repugnant, self-important, ersatz intellectual elitist, sexist guttertripe I’ve ever encountered.

I know there are lots of awful people in the world. But when fellow science fiction fans are awful it somehow hurts worse.

[marzipanandminutiae]

a genuine question: are you proship or just against the rigidity of anti/pro dichotomy? for my own comfort as a follower and fan xoxo

I'm not actually involved in The Discourse, first of all. I disagree with the aims of the antis I've seen so far re: taking down AO3, strictly policing content in fandom (and general fiction), etc. so if that's all that's necessary to qualify one as a proshipper, I am one. If there's more to it, then I suspect I'm not.

I think the topic of fanfic morality is...thorny. R.P.F, for example, deeply bothers me, especially when the issue of explicit fanfic concerning real, very young people comes up. As I know it has. Fiction is not real life, and adults responsible for curating their own online experiences must be trusted to know the difference between fiction and reality or we risk falling back into patterns of censorship that have plagued fandom for years. But some people insist on writing fics about real people, some of whom are not adults. Does that not cross the line rather? And what's to be done about it?

I don't have the answer, I freely admit. But I don't think "nuke the best fanfiction space we've carved out for ourselves yet" is it.

And that's really the only very specific circumstance in which I can understand the outrage. I will not waste a second of my time hand-wringing about the fate of a fake person in a fake scenario. It's not real or harming real people. There IS content I find disgusting/morally repugnant/plain ordinary Squicky, but. As long as it's tagged appropriately and 100% fictional, I will spare it only the thought necessary to say "ew. nope." and move on.

And for some things that squick a lot of other people, I may not. As you know if you've been hanging around here in the past year or so, I write for a fandom that happens to involve incest. Consenting adult incest, in my personal fics, but like...The Full Siblings Who Grew Up Together Are Banging. And I want them to keep banging. I have favorite fics wherein they bang. I can explain my logic till the cows come home- I find their dynamic interesting to explore; it's different from other incest ships, which I usually avoid, because they were never able to be normal siblings; etc. -but at the end of the day, it would still put me on the antis' shit list.

This is not just a matter of principle for me. I read and produce some of the Problematique Fanfic. Relatively tame stuff in the grand scheme of things, really, but I still have a vested interest in avoiding content crackdowns on purely fictional stories. Apart from generally disagreeing that it's the best way to fix fandom's issues.

So, that's where I stand. If you feel you have to unfollow, godsspeed.

#ask #anon #fandom #incest mention #I also feel like with many antis 'unacceptable content' is a moving target #obviously I don't support fanfic involving real non-adults at all ever. and yes fanfic with CSA presented uncritically #or positively repulses me deeply. same with similar representations of bigotry/hate speech/etc. #but. I've genuinely seen a fictional relationship between a 24-year-old and a 34-year-old called Gross because #she was allegedly 'm*nor-coded' (spoiler she was not) #sometimes- often -the anti definition of these things is. not a definition any reasonable person agrees with

[goingrampant]

The Boys #1 notes: cover to page 2

Alright, so The Boys was written by Garth Ennis, a man who hates genres and tries to end them with satirical fiction. The Boys is his attempt to end superhero comics. Alan Moore previously attempted that with Watchmen by portraying everything with deadly seriousness. Obviously, he failed and Watchmen was ultimately subsumed into the DC universe, but his effort shows genuine human empathy as comes from understanding the genre, recognizing how people actually behave, and presenting something people would develop a real emotional response to. Garth Ennis basically shits all over that and that's what The Boys is: Watchmen covered in shit. I don't usually get so graphic, but the sheer repugnance of The Boys demands a bit of rhetorical oomph.

Darick Robertson does the illustration. He also deserves some of the blame for making everything look like a fascist's satirical representation of degenerate art.

The first issue, released in October 2006, is given the appropriate title "This Is Going to Hurt".

Cover: Oooh, we're so edgy! Look at these tough guys and one girl ready to beat up the viewer in a bit of gangland violence. You'd have to be a reeeaaal tough guy to read it, right?!

Title page: A parody of Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman: The Hiketeia's depiction of Wonder Woman stepping on Batman's head, here distorted into a gross image of a boot (Butcher) stamping down on the face of a Captain America knockoff (Soldier Boy) and seriously mashing up his face in horrific gore. Like, this is completely unnecessary, just "Oooh, we're edgy!" to start off the edgelord book and let you know you're in for an edgy time.

Thematically, it nods to the communist idea of the working class rebelling against the oppressive capitalist class. Butcher's boot is the working class leather lace-up used as a symbol of the hard-working common man often seen in communist propaganda. However, it's also consistent with fascist art about a Volkish uprising against Jewish elites (national socialism borrowing various actual socialist concepts and grafting them to far-right antisemitism). A lot of stuff in The Boys feels fascist-friendly, if not centering them as the target demographic.

The title card tells us this arc is called "The Name of the Game: Part One".

Pages 1-2: We're introduced to Billy Butcher, an assholish looking black leather-clad man on a park bench with his bulldog named Terror. For some reason, female The Boys fans love this dog. Like, they love this dog. I guess he's kind of cute before Butcher reveals how he's trained him, but... I don't get it.

Butcher looks up at some superheroes flying overhead and pledges to get revenge on one of them (Homelander), calling him a "cunt". Now, the word "cunt" has different levels of obscenity in the U.S. vs. the U.K. In the U.K., it means something like "asshole" and is regularly used against men, while in the U.S., it's a misogynistic slur exclusively used against women with the connotation that they're only valuable for sex and shouldn't be considered real people. I think if a man were to call another man a "cunt" in the U.S., it might be taken as a rape threat because the concept of being used for penetration is bound up in it.

Butcher is a working class man from England, so he can use "cunt" in the freer way, but I really get the sense that Ennis (from the U.K. himself) specifically included a character from this demographic so that he could get away with plastering the pages with what American readers would read as a misogynistic slur. It's set in America and marketed to Americans. Ooh, edgy!

Now, what Butcher says is "I'm gonna fuckin' have you, you cunt." With the American connotation, that sounds like a rape threat. Our hero, everyone, starting things off with a rape threat.

Something I'm going to be saying a lot is "The show spins this progressively." The show is genius, finding the good parts in the dung heap. The "cunt" thing is spun in an interesting way commentating on American culture, challenging notions of obscenity, and fits into a pattern of musing on gender roles. Thank you, Rebecca Sonnenshine.

Next time... page 3!

#the boys notes #sexism #oooh edgy! #loose communist themes #sus fashy content #queue and i are one forever

[mariacallous]

Long gone are the days when fan fiction was treated as a guilty pleasure, exclusively consumed on a glowing iPad screen under the covers at night and never to be discussed outside of Tumblr. We’re living in an age where Supernatural star Misha Collins boasts about Dean/Castiel fanfic stats on Twitter, a Harry Styles fanfic on Wattpad has been adapted into a major movie franchise, and even Academy Award–winning filmmaker Chloé Zhao openly admits to writing fan fiction. The hobby has become a cultural phenomenon, referenced casually in shows like Euphoria, Only Murders in the Building, 13 Reasons Why, and Bob’s Burgers. And who could forget Archive of Our Own (more widely known as AO3) snagging that Hugo Award in 2019?

Born in 2009, AO3 is one of the biggest fan fiction sites today. It’s an open source, multi-fandom archive for transformative fanworks that, as of January 2023, is home to approximately 10.5 million works across over 55,000 fandoms, ranging from big names like Stranger Things and Marvel to the most niche corners of the internet you could imagine. AO3 is pretty much a household name now, at least for any Gen Z or millennial with some degree of online presence. And as fan fiction has become more mainstream, there’s also seemingly been a push by some users for AO3 to keep up technologically. More specifically, for the archive to function … well, more like TikTok. Picture a “for you” page greeting you as you log in to the archive. It automatically recommends your next fanfic to read, like an oh-so-helpful friend plucking a book off the shelf for you that they just know you’ll love.

Let’s be clear though: This idea isn’t going to see the light of day. “An algorithm is never going to happen,” Claudia Rebaza, a volunteer for AO3’s parent group, the Organization for Transformative Works (OTW), tells me outright. But the debate about whether AO3 should have an algorithm reveals what’s special about fan fiction and the importance of maintaining a space where creative works can just exist.

I get it. As someone born in 1997, it’s hard to remember a time before algorithms, rankings, and personalized recommendations. It feels like every place on the internet is trying to become more like TikTok, from Instagram with its Reels (until Kylie Jenner complained) to Twitter’s “for you” feed. For better or worse, the world today feels deeply online. When nearly every aspect of our lives feels optimized, it makes sense that some want fan fiction to keep up with the times too. 

But here’s the thing: AO3 isn’t social media. It’s simply a space that hosts an enormous collection of works. It’s basically a library on your phone. Being a nonprofit run entirely by volunteers distinguishes AO3 from other fan fiction sites like Wattpad, which is an entertainment company. “AO3 is designed to be an archive, not a social media site, and we’re a nonprofit that will also never run ads,” explains Rebaza. “So we’re not trying to make people spend more time on the site or make anything go viral.” 

Another aspect that sets the archive apart is its lax content policy. While the site still draws the line at some content—explicit material of real minors, flat-out plagiarism—nearly all fanworks are allowed. The only major requirement is that users must tag works containing rape/non-con, graphic violence, major character death, or underage content (alternatively, authors can simply tag “Creator Chose Not to Archive Warnings”). But as long as it’s properly tagged, it’s probably permitted “no matter how awful, repugnant, or badly spelled we may personally find that Content to be,” per the site’s terms of services.

It’s a policy that has been both praised and criticized. But one of the reasons for AO3’s hands-off philosophy is that fan fiction has historically faced a great deal of opposition and censorship. For instance, Fanfiction.net (FF.net), one of the first major fanfic sites on the web, banned all works based on anything by Interview with the Vampire author Anne Rice after she reportedly threatened legal action. (The law as it pertains to fan fiction is murky, but OTW believes nonprofit, transformative works fall under “fair use.”) In 2002, FF.net began implementing a strict “no NC-17 content” policy. Then in 2012, the site famously deleted a large number of stories, presumably ones deemed too mature. The move was widely coined the FF.Net purge by fans, and it sparked concerns about potentially disproportionately affecting authors of slash (same-gender pairing fics).

AO3 is one of the few remaining places on the internet where you alone are responsible for curating the content you consume. You’re armed with only a search bar and the use of tags and filters, sent out into the Forbidden Forest to find whatever your heart desires. And sure, that may feel like a daunting task, especially if you’re used to the likes of TikTok. But part of the beauty of it being algorithmless is that you can hand-pick the works you’re looking for and also easily avoid content you don’t want to see. If AO3 were to implement an algorithm, it’s highly likely you would encounter a lot more content you would have otherwise filtered out, scrolled past, or simply just been blissfully unaware of.

An AO3 algorithm could present a problem not just for readers, but for creators as well. Harassment has long been an issue in fandom, but it feels more intense and intimate in the social media age. In the early 2000s, ship wars and heated discourse mostly lived within the confines of forums, under usernames that nobody would care enough about to track down. Now? Not so much. Hollie, a moderator for the 329,000-member group r/fanfiction on Reddit, tells me how she’s seen things change over the 15 years she’s been involved with fandom. “Fandom has become more clustered into a smaller number of spaces, rather than being able to easily separate into different groups. [So] people with very different interests and takes overlap,” she says. “Don’t get me wrong, there were ‘sporking’ (mocking fics) sites back in the day, as well as bullying and ship wars, but for the most part, people complained in their own groups about how terrible their rival ship was or how gross they found certain kinks or whatever. They didn’t usually go to the creators/shippers’ social media and fics to complain at them.” (Plus, if your fandom self is even slightly intertwined with your public persona, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that you will at some point be harassed, threatened, or even doxxed over fictional characters.)

An algorithm would only further knock down these walls. If someone really dislikes a ship or trope for whatever reason, one might assume they would go out of their way to avoid such content by using tags and filters, or simply interact only with fans who have similar taste. But if the algorithm shows people something they hate, they might feel more inclined to engage with that content and go out of their way to make it known just how much they hate it. 

There’s something quietly beautiful about AO3 not making it easy for us to snap our fingers and have a personalized story recommendation fall into our laps. I’d liken browsing the archive to wandering into a bookstore, picking a novel off the shelf, and being pleasantly surprised by how good it is. Sure, you might head to a genre you know you enjoy or gravitate toward a familiar author or friend’s recommendation. But when it comes down to it, you picked the book. Maybe an algorithm would have found a story you liked just as much, maybe not. 

Algorithms and modern technology can be convenient for discovering new content and tailoring things to your personal taste, but they can also impose their own limits. Sure, streaming is great—but are we really taking advantage of this infinite amount of content if all we see is Netflix’s top 10 and Recommended for You tab? Or are we perhaps missing out on shows we would have enjoyed, if only we’d known about them before they were canceled after one season due to (supposedly) low viewership? Is the skill-based matchmaking algorithm used in multiplayer online games like Call of Duty actually helping us enjoy gameplay more? Or is it ruining video games altogether?

If you’re on TikTok, you’ve likely experienced seeing a video on your “for you” page that you never would have clicked on yourself. Sometimes it’s merely annoying (no, I’m really not into watching people eat that Pink Sauce); other times, it can be outright distressing. For instance, if you’re into cute cats, the algorithm might think you actually want to see a viral video mocking domestic abuse. Algorithms often lack the ability to distinguish tone, and they generally don’t account for triggers or content warnings. It’s like shelving Stephen King’s It in children’s fiction just because the characters are kids.

Safety and practicality issues aside, an algorithm would ultimately just plain suck the fun out of AO3. I don’t want to see only the biggest, most popular content. I want to live in the corner of my little niche fandom, enjoying whatever weird things I like regardless of how many views, kudos, or comments are involved. In a world dominated by algorithms, stats, and virality, let me have my fan fiction.

[olderthannetfic]

It's generally pretty hard for me to feel guilty over consuming fancontent, but one thing that does get to me is fancontent that due to the source material is full of canon-typical copaganda as well as imperialist propaganda. Example, I love spy stuff but I can't stomach a lot of James Bond fic etc. because it will have phrases like "Bond and Q had stopped a bioterrorism attack in Eastern Europe the previous week", meanwhile I'm an Eastern European living in a world where first world countries and their intelligence agencies have a well-documented paper trail of orchestrating coups, regime changes, and meddling in our elections.

I still enjoy reading James Bond fic for the most part but it makes me wonder if I'm being a hypocrite. "Fiction is not reality" is mostly true, but in this case I have to assume that most people writing "heroic first world spy that totally Saves People" content really do believe in the core messages of those works, simply because "US and UK meddling are bad actually" is a fringe position in practice if not in theory. (A lot of Westerners who claim to be against US and UK interventionism still eat up the official excuses for it when the issue comes up or some old CIA paperwork gets declassified.) OTOH, I'm white, so I imagine if I were a POC fan I'd be having these thoughts about basically every vaguely racist piece of media (which is a lot of them), and I've been lucky and privileged to go so long without experiencing this conflict. I don't know. How do other people deal with these icky feelings of "is it wrong to enjoy fandom if the overarching theme of canon and fanon is one I find repugnant"? It's not like me abstaining from reading James Bond fic will have any impact on government foreign policies, and yet... am I encouraging those policies by feeding a fandom built around lionising such content?

--

[monkey-network]

My Issues/Problems/Disgusts Resolved(?)

When you have issues, troubles, or disgusts with anything, the hardest but relieving thing to do coming to terms with them. A couple of years ago, I made a trilogy of posts exploring three people I found ranging from repugnant to devious. It came at a time when frustrations might as well have come out and frankly they were just about people everyone was more than aware of online. Enough time has passed and while this isn't just gonna be me apologizing or being remorseful for what I said, I want to I guess truly bury the hatchet and resolve these stuck-around feelings as somebody that has... been humbled a lot over these years (make of that what you will). This is coming from somebody that knows a lot about staying in your own head. So yeah, let's talk.

Lily Orchard [OP Link]

Gotta say that... nothing's really changed only in that it's all less with anger now. Put this first because it'll be short. To be as sincere as I can, she's just an unlikable person. Regardless of her out there opinions and ideas of media literacy, or her choices in fictional tastes, I won't be the guy that will throw every evil label and the kitchen sink onto her. Calling the spade a spade, even as a former fan I saw that within reason it was seeing a very insatiable and arrogant media "critic" with negative social skills. Hell, the mentions you see of her on Tumblr or Twitter especially are just the open secret that most people don't like her. For me, that resentment has become passive chagrin.

I won't convince anybody of who she can really be, how bad she can be at being both original and derivative, or what she is potentially. I wouldn't say a lost cause, but there's nothing complicated about this anymore. She's just a massive asshole. Not because of any human characteristic of hers, her opinions, or what was known about her in the past. Take away any personal semantics or bias, I remain only puzzled about how her circle is able to tolerate her presence because she's just an unlikable person and that's all on her.

Butch Hartman {OP Link}

2020 basically was the year where a man responsible for one of the most popular cartoons on Nickelodeon finished swan-diving his reputation just as fast as the likes of John K and Justin Roiland. From scheming a streaming service that still isn't out of early access yet to making a Christian flash cartoon that looks 20 years too late. It's a classic story of pride coming before the fall, culminating in his Youtube channel being a wasteland aside from sketch tiktoks that barely make the thousands in views despite his huge follower count. As much as LSMark looked to make good-faith conversation with him recently, Butch basically became a ghost now after all the controversies died down.

Now despite what I said initially, Butch's fall in reputation is definitely not comparable to Kricfalusi or Roiland's; we've heard nothing of him physically taking advantage of anybody in or out the industry. The worse he's done is take advantage of his legacy for either financial or supportive gains. This is not as bad as domestic or sexual assault of course, but it spoke wonders of how the ego of big time creators can kill any goodwill and faith when they're not actually considerate of the following that respect them. A quick search of his name on Youtube is more about the people discussing his controversies than anything he worked on. People still discuss Danny Phantom and Fairly Oddparents, hell the Cosmo mpreg episode is a meme to this day, but with the detachment towards Butch as the creator.

I'm fine with this predicament, but it's sad to believe this was all on him. It wasn't just about Oaxis being a scam or him saying "he created your childhood" or heaven forbid his attempts of promoting religious healing, it was about seeing a creator of some things you liked reveal himself as someone in a bubble that you lose any idea in looking up to. It's not exactly "Don't Meet Your Heroes," more "Don't glue on rose-tinted glasses". I won't force or insult what remains of Butch's "fanbase" for sticking with him, but this definitely woke me up in terms of how I view the creators I love. Humility is the special word in all this, where some creators can have some disapproving moments but you can still have respect for their craft. With Butch, it wasn't even him entirely that made his shows look great. As of now, he's making poorly illustrated kid's bible stories with Fairly Oddparents getting a live-action show that Nickelodeon regretted making immediately after releasing to the point of erasing it all not even a full year after it was first announced. Even when things are probably fine now, the guy fell off as hard as I expected originally. I can seriously put this behind knowing I was factually right on the money the first time and that does put a smile on my face.

Also... Butt Shartman. That's all, let's move on.

Mysterious Mr. Enter (OP Link)

I'll say this was the reason why I made this post. Lily and Hartman I say speak of an absence of change and reflecting on that absence. Mr. Enter is different and, cut to the chase, it has to do with this recent video.

I've talked my fair share of shit toward Mr. Enter these past few years, reasonably so. At the same time, my vitriol toward him came from some semblance of respect. Many have to this day brought up Mr. Enter calling out the writers of Spongebob for a particular episode they did, but John is right in that that was around the time he barely had a following and just started out with media reviews. Mr. Enter has made bad opinions, I will never deny that and this isn't me defending him, but I see that he can recognize they're bad. He's better than Lily Orchard in that... he can admit being wrong and grow from it. We meme and shit on this dude, but for me, there was still that modicum of respect I had for him being this dedicated. In spite of the harassment or the justified backlash, he's still putting in the effort.

Over the years, I've come to understand that media critics can have different understandings of media. That doesn't mean every critic is always right in their own way, grifters exist for a reason, but I don't see Mr. Enter as a grifter-type critic compared to people who to this day complain about The Last Jedi. He can have some off takes on the types of humor or tropes in a cartoon, but more often than not he's being sincere. That's why I say he still has some respect from me for as long as I've known him. Every bad take aside, I don't take him as somebody who is "ruining media criticism".

I don't agree with everything he says or believes, but John's doing better than I can say for Butch Hartman or Lily Orchard especially. He's doing Admirable Animations again, something I brought up originally, and am intrigued to see that he indirectly took my advice. He can work well with more positive videos. I never felt he was an actively terrible critic, Turning Red meme aside, and I didn't want to just treat him as the bane of online media criticism or the worst thing to ever happen. The dude has his faults but can acknowledge them better than most online personalities I've seen who feel it's weak to admit anything. He's no different from the Nostalgia Critic where the tumultuous attitudes toward them in the past have subsided where yeah, I'm not gonna side with every bad opinion or choice they make but they aren't actively killing any goodwill I would have for them. It's not pity, but making your empathy less black and white compared to people more deserving of scrutiny. Overall I still have hopes Mr. Enter will do better, imperfect as things can get.

Conclusion

I wanna say this post and the former three I made reflected the increased awareness and discourse of the parasocial relationships we can have, especially online. There have been plenty of people that certainly abused their status and paid for it, these three stayed in the mind for how consistently they tracked in soiling their reputation. At the same time, how wary we are about things or the people we followed isn't always cut and dry. That's why the title has the question mark in parentheses, nothing ever ends so I'm not saying these current feelings will just be buried away and forgotten forever. I just know that for this current future, it's better to seriously lay things to rest while subconsciously keeping in mind what can be done differently from now on. To conclude, this is all better than having to care about people like Andrew Tate or Elon Musk living another day.

#mysterious mr enter #mr enter #Butch Hartman #lily orchard #media #Youtube #sorry for the rant 'n bant

[hellsbellschime]

CSA & The Lolita-fication of ASOIAF

A Song of Ice and Fire is a complex narrative that tackles a lot of incredibly uncomfortable concepts, and one of the most important and most disturbing in the entire series is the way that many of the adult characters in the story seem to view children. However, regardless of how repugnant it is, the part that these issues play in the story is vital, and the way that some fans tend to react to it is worth exploring.

There are plenty of broadly accepted fan opinions about A Song of Ice and Fire that are surprising, but one of the oddest and most unexpected is the notion that so many of the extremely young characters who are introduced to CSA at shockingly early ages have those experiences because of some commitment to historical accuracy, and that within the context of the story itself, it is actually somewhat normal for tweens and teens to be sought after and initiated to romance and/or procreation sooner rather than later, often by the adults around them.

It would be nice to say that this perspective is a surprising trend, but this point of view is uncomfortably common in pop culture at large, and there are many instances of CSA being normalized in a way that doesn't seem to be actually intended, with the most obvious being Vladimir Nabakov's landmark novel, Lolita.

Lolita is an interesting cultural touchstone in all the wrong ways, as the interpretation of the story as some tale of precocious lust has become so ingrained that the term "Lolita" has completely evolved beyond the story itself. It's not uncommon to see real-life young girls or young girls in fiction referred to as "Lolitas" if they are simply young females who appear to be romantically or intimately involved with significantly older men, accompanied by the implication that they are somehow consenting and proactive agents in this dynamic. And it should go without saying, the fact that a character who is horrifically exploited by the adult male protagonist of a story has become synonymous with a young seductress with a particular interest in older men rather than a young victim of an older man is profoundly disturbing.

But, what makes the story of Lolita interesting, especially within the context of A Song of Ice and Fire, is that the outrageously generous interpretation of these exploitative relationships seems to be driven by the fact that, essentially, the writer doesn't tell the audience that they should be repulsed by what they're reading. Interestingly, the narrators in these instances are often clearly unreliable, but because the author isn't directly and intentionally making their own moral perspective about the situation clear, many readers seem to take that absence of overt moralizing as a direct indication that what is happening isn't necessarily immoral.

Now, of course there are a great deal of audience members for both of these stories who pick up on the outrageous ick factor. Thankfully, a significant number of people don't need to be told by someone else that it's actually not normal for adults to have any kind of non-platonic interest in tweens. However, once again, the broader pop-culture definition of the term "Lolita" obviously indicates that a great deal of, if not the majority, of people who are familiar with the story interpret that story as the tale of a precocious seductress rather than a child victim of prolonged abuse. And unfortunately, the normalization of child exploitation in the A Song of Ice and Fire fandom seems to indicate that a significant portion of the reading public hasn't evolved as much as anyone would hope since the 1955 publication of Lolita.

However, the subtext that George RR Martin seems to very obviously insert into his story is telling, because while many of his point-of-view characters rationalize away either the abuse they've experienced or that they've visited upon others, the underlying message seems painfully clear, and it seems like a lot of members of the audience go out of their way to willfully avoid it.

Firstly, one of the most obvious indications that this is supposed to be interpreted as something bad is simply how egregious it really is. It is repulsive either way, but it would be far easier for an audience to swallow a relationship between, say, a 16 year old and an adult if the intention behind it was for the audience to actually think it was normal. But Martin takes things to what is largely the greatest extreme possible by making most of the characters like Daenerys, Sansa, and Arya tweens when they are prematurely introduced to anything non-platonic. And the actual effect of that extremity is astonishing.

Because, at least from my point of view, George RR Martin often makes these characters so astoundingly young specifically with the intention that no rational person could try to reason or excuse it away. Yes, many of the people involved within these storylines in the text treat it like it's normal, but frankly, no one in the audience should need to be told that an adult having any sort of interest in an eleven or twelve year old is appalling, inappropriate, and repulsive.

On top of that, one of the most obvious indications that this behavior is wrong is simply who engages in it versus who does not. Yes, the world of Planetos is harsh, brutal, and seemingly teeming with terrible people. However, the only characters who seem to engage in this kind of behavior are pretty directly coded as villains, or it is at least implied that they may be antagonists in the overall story. Because yes, from Rhaegar Targaryen to Tyrion Lannister to Khal Drogo, there are some morally ambiguous to downright villainous characters who appear uncomfortably attracted to children. But what seems incredibly relevant is that there are really no characters who are clearly morally good people who are ever attracted to inappropriately young people.

For instance, while Ned Stark may not be the unflappable paragon of virtue that some might see him as, he's about as close to a true hero as A Song of Ice and Fire gets. And it is unquestionably obvious that he as an adult would never have even the slightest hint of attraction to a child. And even beyond that, it's hard to imagine any of the outright protagonists in the story ever being remotely okay with marrying a twelve year old. Ergo, the immorality of this kind of behavior seems to be self-evident simply based on which characters do or do not engage in it. It may be an uncomfortably common problem, but it's not something that anyone who is morally good is portrayed as taking part in. I mean, in A Storm of Swords, even Robb refers to the murdered Lannister children as children despite the fact that he's barely older than they are, so there is an obvious cultural distinction applied to people of that age and it is clearly stated it is not appropriate to treat them like adults in a variety of ways.

But from an even broader storytelling perspective, the effects of exploiting disturbingly young people is very consistent and utterly catastrophic, for the victims, the perpetrators, and the entire world at large. Again, it's actually shocking how internally consistent this trend is, as it's hard to think of any character who is prematurely introduced to sexuality via an adult figure who isn't obviously traumatized by it, and whose trauma doesn't have enormously negative and far-reaching effects on the rest of the world. There are seemingly endless examples of this, and again, it is almost entirely unvarying, any character who is introduced to it too early experiences negative consequences that often have a horrendous effect on others, and anyone involved in CSA experiences negative consequences as well.

It is actually through the exploitative older characters that the moral point of view on this behavior seems to be incredibly, unmissably clear, because a great deal of them quite literally die as a direct result of CSA, oftentimes at the hands of the victim themselves. Viserys sells Daenerys to Drogo when she's far too young because he's desperate for power, and Drogo murders him. Khal Drogo rapes Dany, and he ultimately dies at her hand, regardless of how she believes she feels about him in the end. Tywin Lannister essentially assaults Tyrion by proxy by forcing him to assault Tysha, and Tyrion murders him. Lysa Tully take advantage of Littlefinger, and Littlefinger ultimately kills her.

The angles of all of these character dynamics and deaths are important, because regardless of how direct or indirect the influence is, the connection between the death of abusers as a result of the abused is quite consistent. In some instances there is a pretty direct throughline between the abuse and death, such as Tyrion's murder of Tywin. In others, it's not quite as obvious, but still extremely present.

For instance, had Viserys not sold Daenerys, he never would have met the man who killed him, and had Drogo never bought Daenerys, then the chain of events that led to his death never would have happened. And although Littlefinger's feelings about Lysa's abuse don't appear to be a direct factor in his decision to kill her, her consistent desire to take advantage of him in a multitude of ways undeniably directly led to her death in the end. Clearly, it does not pay to exploit children in the long run.

There are other angles to the price of premature intimacy as well, for instance, the more dubiously consenting relationships between older characters and younger might not be as overtly abusive as some, but it still has a significant long-term effect. So-called relationships between characters like Rhaegar and Lyanna or Viserys Targaryen and Aemma Arryn haven't been directly defined as downright abusive, but again, it's obvious that the younger characters are too young to be sexually initiated, and the consequences for these engagements are disastrous.

Many people like to romanticize whatever happened between Lyanna and Rhaegar, but obviously I think that interpretation is incorrect. I seriously doubt that Lyanna ran away with Rhaegar because she loved him and wanted to marry him, and I think it's far more likely that she was somehow intentionally misled by him.

But, even giving their relationship the benefit of the doubt, it's obvious what the problem is. Lyanna might be older than some of A Song of Ice and Fire's other child victims, but she is too young to be married to anyone, because if she were ready to be wedded and bedded, she would have been. Rhaegar took her away from any adult protection that prevented her from being exploited, seemingly exploited her, and as a result the entire continent devolved into war and House Targaryen's reign in Westeros came to an end.

Viserys and Aemma are another interesting case that shows how the consequences of child exploitation are far-reaching and extreme, and it will be interesting to see how that translates to the screen in House of the Dragon. Although it's not directly stated, it is pretty clearly implied that Aemma's pregnancies at an extremely young age led to her many miscarriages, as well as her premature death.

Aemma's story is an incredibly disturbing one for a lot of reasons. Aemma was about 11 years old when she was married to Viserys, which is yet again an appallingly young age for any girl to be married to anyone. But, her marriage to Viserys truly demonstrated the literal, physical limitations of child brides, as Rhaenyra was ultimately her only surviving issue. It also demonstrated why the theory that A Song of Ice and Fire's children are being married off to adults in the name of historical accuracy is largely incorrect, as those physical limitations apply to girls in the real world as well.

Aemma wound up dying in childbirth at the ripe old age of 23, and Viserys went on to marry Alicent Hightower. And although it is impossible to say what would or would not have happened, the likelihood that Aemma Arryn would have lived far longer and given birth to more than one surviving child had she not begun dealing with pregnancies and miscarriages at the age of 11 or 12 seems pretty high. The likelihood that she could have birthed a living son, or at the very least the likelihood that she could have lived as long as Viserys and left Rhaenyra as the only possible heir to the Iron Throne, would have been considerably higher if she hadn't been married and impregnated at such a repulsively young age. Meaning that in a somewhat direct sense, the exploitation of Aemma Arryn at least partially led to the Dance of the Dragons, which was truly the beginning of the end of the Targaryen dynasty.

Interestingly, this line of consideration can be taken even further, as characters who experience these things before they're ready for it still experience dire consequences, even if they're not being as overtly exploited. There are precocious so-called relationships like the one between Cersei and Jaime that, although it seems to be absent of a dynamic where one party is blatantly taking advantage of the other, still had dire consequences and still seems to demonstrate that under almost no circumstances should young people be sexual before they're ready.

Ironically, despite the fact that Jaime and Cersei have a relatively consensual relationship in the present, it obviously has cataclysmic effects on the entire world around them. And, it's fairly directly stated that they began to experiment with each other far too soon, as Joanna Lannister separates them in order to stop this experimentation in its tracks, and Joanna dies long before Jaime and Cersei even reach double digits in age.

And, while Jaime and Cersei claim to be in love with one another and their attraction seems to be mutual and on a relatively level playing field, they obviously have some very bizarre hangups about intimacy and love. Not to mention, their romantic relationship is quite literally the catalyst for a massive civil war, and it seems to be the bedrock for the impending destruction of their entire bloodline.

Of course, there are instances of precocious characters seemingly having no trauma associated with sexuality, but the Arianne Martells of the world of ice and fire are few and far between. The vast majority of characters who have any manner of experience before they're ready have unfortunately dire consequences as a result.

There is obviously a great deal of narrative satisfaction that comes from these many victims being the cause of their abuser's ultimate downfalls. But what is unfortunate is that there isn't really any hopeful resolution to the survivors' stories. Yes, the people who took advantage of them oftentimes die as a direct result of that, but the damage that is done still has aftereffects that linger and largely spread that trauma to others.

In one of the most obvious examples of this trauma cycle continuing long after an abuser is gone, Daenerys' point of view on her own abuse is profoundly depressing and disturbing. Not only is her marriage to Khal Drogo completely repulsive on its face, but the way that he actually treats her is horrific, and the fact that this all happens to her at such a crucial stage of emotional, physical, and intellectual development is a nightmare.

Khal Drogo's abuse is incredibly overt, and the fact that Dany's only source of potential reprieve is to essentially seduce a man who is engaging in violent CSA against her is absolutely horrifying. But it's even more horrifying that Dany ultimately rationalizes this extreme trauma by convincing herself that she is actually in love with Drogo.

And depressingly, this is an issue that she clearly never really moves on from, at least not yet. She still romanticizes her relationship with Drogo and believes herself to be in love with him. She is attracted to age-inappropriate, exploitative creeps like Daario Naharis. She rationalizes away the untoward behavior of adult men who try to take advantage of her like Ser Jorah. And tragically, her incredibly warped perspective on love, intimacy, and everything in between causes her to make some profoundly disturbing statements and decisions revolving around or related to her early abusive experiences.

For instance, the dubious consent of her intimate interactions with Irri seem to fly completely over her head. She is empathetic to assault victims when she sees them, but her solutions to these crimes are at times downright disturbing. The fact that she suggests marrying victims to their assaulters during the sack of the Lhazareen seems to very pointedly illustrate her drastically distorted view of sex.

And although it's only speculation, I think Dany's extreme abuse is likely the reason why she was so cavalier about the mass murder of anyone ages 12 or older in Astapor. Again, as we see from the more well-adjusted characters in the series, there is a cultural distinction that separates children of that age from anyone older, and again, any reasonable person understands that a 12 year old is a child. But, this choice makes more sense through the eyes of a girl who is barely older than that herself, and who was married off to a full-grown man who also happened to be an abusive rapist at the age of 13. Dany is undeniably responsible for the deaths of many children, but her perception of what children can be subjected to is also deranged because of what was done to her by Viserys and Drogo.

Characters like Tyrion and Littlefinger actually offer even more insight into the long-lasting consequences of childhood exploitation, because they are adults by the time the story begins, but the effects of their experiences seem to be obvious.

Tyrion is an interesting case study, because his behavior and point of view are incredibly unreliable, self-absorbed, and stunted. He experiences a lot of self-pity because Sansa Stark has no romantic interest in him, which is quite frankly insane. Sansa is a hostage of the family who slaughtered her own, she is forcibly married to a man who is twice her age, and Tyrion is both attracted to her and quite frustrated that she's not attracted to him.

A lot of readers seem to pay a bizarre amount of attention to the fact that Sansa finds the canonically hideously ugly Tyrion unnattractive, and that hyper-focus seems to outshine the fact that it would be absurdly inappropriate for a 13 year old to be attracted to a 26 year old under any circumstance, and that it is downright repugnant that a 26 year old is romantically interested in a 13 year old and is legitimately upset and confused about why she continually rejects him.

However, within the broader context of Tyrion's trauma, it at least makes a certain amount of sense. Firstly, his ideas about what is or is not appropriate is extremely off base. And again, George RR Martin seems to go far out of his way to make sure his character's development timelines match up, because Tyrion just so happened to be 13 years old when he met and married Tysha.

Tyrion's brief relationship with Tysha informs a great deal of his point of view regarding all things romance, and while the more obvious examples of this obsession come in the form of issues like his fixation on prostitutes, it seems entirely reasonable that Tyrion's view on sexuality was likely permanently stunted and scarred after Tysha's gang assault and Tyrion's own abuse. It's not hard to imagine why he would have such a childish view about his marriage to Sansa, and horrifically, why he might be attracted to someone Sansa's age, because the only time he experienced any semblance of passionate enjoyment prior to extreme trauma was when he and Tysha were that age.

But, an explanation is not an excuse, and Tyrion's perspective and behavior have a clear negative impact on the people around him. Sansa luckily escaped their marriage mostly unscathed, although again, many readers seem to overlook the fact that Tyrion did essentially assault her on their wedding night despite the fact that the marriage wasn't consummated.

However, Shae seems to be the most obvious and tragic example of how Tyrion's childhood trauma can very severely impact others. Frankly, his feelings and perspective on Shae is completely irrational. Yes, she's at least older than Sansa, but she is literally a paid companion who has zero power in comparison to anyone bearing the surname Lannister. So, the fact that Tyrion literally kills her for her supposed betrayal with absolutely no recognition of the fact that Shae has been used and manipulated by many people including him and that she owes him no loyalty whatsoever is profoundly disturbing.

Unfortunately, Sansa appears to be a veritable creepo magnet, because she escapes the captivity of one predator because another predator wants her even more. Littlefinger has seemingly never been a particularly selfless or caring individual, but his experiences with Lysa and the rest of the Tullys clearly informed nearly every aspect of his being, and it's not hard to feel sympathy for the exploited and discarded child that he was in his formative years.

Littlefinger often seems to reference Catelyn's rejection as the primary driving force behind his desire to acquire as much power and status as possible, but it seems extremely likely that the unstated and obvious driving factor is largely his experiences with Lysa and the rest of House Tully.

Petyr's perspective on Lysa and Cat is fascinating, because although Lysa assaulted Littlefinger when he was too drunk to even realize what exactly was happening, he has at least tried to convince himself that Catelyn was the person who did it, and seems to take a certain point of pride in the notion that he was the one who deflowered both of Hoster Tully's daughters. However, on some level he must be fully aware that that's not true, and that Lysa and Hoster both essentially took horrific advantage of him.

Petyr's first experience with Lysa was undoubtedly a traumatic event that he tried to rewrite within his own mind. It seems likely that on some level he knows Lysa is the one who assaulted him, and it would actually make sense that he would sleep with her later, as it's fairly common for assault victims to attempt to regain some semblance of control over the situation in a similar way. But what happens afterward actually makes things exponentially more horrific.

Littlefinger was likely intimate with Lysa as a means of suppressing the genuine trauma of what she did to him before. But, when their intimacy is revealed, Littlefinger, a teenage boy who spent his formative years with the Tullys in Riverrun, is tossed out like yesterday's trash without a second thought. He is a nearly powerless child, and the people around him who likely felt like family to him either directly abused him, got rid of him to cover up that abuse, or straight-up ignored him once he was gone.

There was probably an aspect of Baelish's personality that was always going to aim high, but his desperation for power and his willingness to horrendously exploit others was likely either created or extremely magnified by this particular experience.

Because, although Littlefinger does have his hand in a lot of different pies, one thing that is odd and doesn't really get the attention that it deserves is that he's a brothel owner. On its face this might not seem that strange, but Petyr Baelish is supposed to be a bit of a monetary genius, and a great deal of his machinations revolve around his ability to be strategic with money.

To put it simply, there are many avenues through which Littlefinger can make more money with less effort. Not to mention, that line of work is an unnecessarily seedy option for someone who is already too lowborn for many of the positions he occupies and aims for, and there are a lot of unnecessary risks that come along with it. For instance, being the one to personally take custody of Jeyne Poole and open her up to horrific abuse is likely something that will massively backfire on him in the long run, even if he doesn't realize it. And more importantly, it's not actually something that he needs to do himself. So, it's actually pretty weird that he leaves himself open in this way, especially since he doesn't have to.

But it's also not difficult to see the throughline from his own experiences to what he does now. He was exploited and mistreated by people far more powerful than he was, and he now exploits and mistreats people that he's far more powerful than.

When it comes to Sansa, Littlefinger's post-traumatic experiences take on an even more meaningful and interesting point of view. Obviously, like Tyrion, his attraction to Sansa is gross, weird, and it's even weirder that he doesn't get how weird it is. However, his obsession with using her to rewrite his own history is extremely interesting and layered as well.

Littlefinger's seemingly impulsive decision to kill Lysa when she catches him putting the moves on Sansa is a bit of a shock, as she has been one of the most useful tools in his toolbelt, and his already precarious position in the Vale is thrown into much greater chaos as a result of Lysa's death. However, from the point of view of childhood trauma Petyr, this must largely feel like a dream come true.

Because sincerely, Littlefinger's opportunity to change his own narrative in this moment is straight-up wish fulfillment. Instead of being the child who is completely rejected by the woman that he loves and used and abused by the woman that he doesn't, now he gets to be the person who actually wins the girl of his teenage dreams, at least in his own mind, and he gets to be the person who kills the villain of his story. From an external perspective, that entire event is complete madness and chaos, but from his own point of view, he is probably living out his teenage hero fantasies in these moments.

Unfortunately, Petyr is no such hero, and while Lysa doesn't deserve much pity for her ultimate comeuppance, there are still an untold number of people who are completely innocent whose innocence was taken or destroyed by Littlefinger. Baelish may have wound up becoming a bad guy either way, but he undeniably became much worse as a result of Lysa taking advantage of him.

Of course, it is entirely possible to be mistreated by people without visiting that abuse onto others, but A Song of Ice and Fire really seems to emphasize the cyclical nature of this abuse, the manner in which it can grow, and the way in which it always has permanent psychological effects on the children who have to suffer through it. Even the people who manage to work through their trauma and decide to be better usually go through some serious growing pains on the way, and those pains often result in yet more trauma being spread to the innocent people around them. Not only is the price of CSA high, but it's one that has to be paid over and over again.

In a sense, the urge to rationalize away this behavior is understandable. The fact that the characters themselves rationalize it makes it considerably easier for the audience to do so as well, and it is largely easier to overlook the issue rather than delve into something that is this horrific, especially since the books don't go out of their way to moralize about it in the way that most media does. I mean, even the creators of Game of Thrones aged up the characters and whitewashed many of A Song of Ice and Fire's key abusers to sidestep this problem, so it comes as little surprise that the readers often do the same.

However, attempting to normalize it seems to be a mistake, and seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the story being told. Because as should be obvious by now, the subtext revolving around this issue is consistent and clear. CSA has a major impact that ripples throughout the entire society of Planetos, and the fact that some characters can get away with it or rationalize it does not mean that the audience is supposed to perceive it as acceptable. As the actual storytelling demonstrates, it is very obviously meant to be unacceptable. Consistently incorporating actions and behaviors that only bad guys participate in and that often gets them killed is not particularly ambiguous writing, and even if George RR Martin is showing readers that it's wrong rather than telling them that it is, the message is the same.

Sexuality and sexual trauma in the world of ice and fire is complex and layered, which makes it more interesting and harder to deal with. Looking at an abusive person and actually empathizing with the experiences that made them that way is not something that most people are comfortable with, but frankly, it's much better to do that rather than to pretend that these kinds of behaviors or points of view are normal or acceptable in any society, even an imaginary one.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #my videos #Youtube

[katzenklavierr]

TBH I've had a much better time in Online Fandom by letting myself be annoyed by petty shit that doesn't matter and just simply... not bothering people who do like it, because clearly they get something out of it I don't.

Like, for example, I don't really care for like 95% of self-insertion/self-shipping fan content, even sometimes OC-insertion, depending on context (e.g., a set narrative vs a social sim). I've had the appeal explained to me by people who do like it, but I just can't get into it. At best, I'm indifferent, but really, I just don't like it the majority of the time. I don't really have a "good reason" for it other than it doesn't vibe with how I personally prefer to engage w fiction.

And I think that's fine. I don't really feel like I should have to justify it anymore than someone else should have to justify why they do. I just simply filter or ignore those kind of fanworks when I come across them.

I think it's kind of unreasonable to expect enthusiastic support for all manner of fanworks and fandoms. Like, sometimes you just see something and you think it's stupid or cliche or out-of-character or gross or <insert negative adjective here>, and that's fine. It doesn't mean you hate people who like it, it just means it's Not For You. Rather than feign positivity or make up a reason why it's actually morally repugnant or whatever, you can simply be a hater in private, or, if you do express your negative opinion publicly, do so in a general sort of way that doesn't shit on anyone's parade.

There's a difference btwn saying "I don't like this" in your own post, as I've done here, and like... expressing that in the comments section of a post explicitly by and for people who do. Like, mentioning to your friend, who may or may not like cats, that you don't really like being around them, compared to walking into a cat-lovers convention with an "I HATE CATS" t-shirt and yelling at passerbys. Maybe you have cat-related trauma, or a cat allergy, or maybe you just think they're annoying. It doesn't really matter. You're not obligated to like them, it just depends on how you go about it.

(Obvs I'm not talking about things that cause real harm, I would be here for ages trying to dissect the nuances of that, I'm talking about innocuous shit that you'd have to reach pretty far to call "problematic" or "irredeemable" like crossover AUs or fancharacters or pronoun headcanons or whatever.)

#Salem shouts into the void #long post

[finitefall]

Hill's Alive is hellsbellschime on tumblr. I hate her channel so much. The only reason her channel is popular is because most of her videos are about how evil Daenerys and the Targaryens are. Not only her takes are awful and wildly incorrect, her previous video on Rhaenyra had so many repugnant comments calling Rhaenyra bed hopper and disgusting for having bastards. She loves using misogynistic talking points against her hated female characters while prioritizing a specific type of female character (Sansa and Alicent).

She’s also a Klaroline stan actually and harassed Phoebe Tonkin so much that Phoebe herself got wind of it and specifically called her out by username and asked her to stop the harassment.

She knows her audience is mostly raging incels, dudebros and Targ haters who never read the books but do read the Reddit threads and watch YouTube essays. She knows she can leave out HUGE chunks of the text and key passages to lie about Daenerys because her audience won’t call her out. She also started making shit up about the Hightowers to please her anti Targ incel audience. The Hightowers are Valyrians (or better yet Velaryons) now but also they are from the Great Empire of the Dawn but also they are Daynes but also they are First Men but also they have magic but also. The gymnastics she does for making them relevant to the main story is INSANE.

Hi! Just a little disclaimer: I strongly advise my followers to not go on their tumblr to send hate, anon or not. I never do this, I answer, but I don't send hate or bully anyone, even if their behavior is awful. I like to believe my followers are smarter than this, so I hope none of you is feeling insulted, but since her username is being revealed to me and everyone else on this post, I don't want anyone to accuse me of sending people after her.

Of course she's a Sansa and Alicent stan, who's surprised?

I was in the TVD fandom so I heard about Phoebe Tonkin being bullied by Klaroline shippers. I'm a Klaroline shipper myself, but it's crazy how people don't make the difference between fictional characters and actors. Phoebe isn't Haley, Joseph isn't Klaus, and Candice isn't Caroline. TVD shippers were wild, it happened with Delena stans too. Again, I've always been a Delena shipper but it was crazy how fans reacted to Nina and Ian breaking up and him marrying Nikki Reed. Nina isn't Elena and Ian isn't Damon: they're real people, not their fictional characters, leave them alone ffs.

Phoebe was absolutely right to call her out, stop harrassing this woman who's never done anything to you...

Thank you for telling me about her, now I understand better why so many were talking about her and asking my opinion. Well, it's simple: what @queenrhaenyrah said here.

#fandom drama #hillsalive criticism #answered