#prequel defense

[yiliy]

"The callousness of it all struck Obi-Wan profoundly. Units. Final product. These were living beings they were talking about. Living, breathing, and thinking. To create clones for such a singular purpose, under such control, even stealing half their childhood for efficiency, ..."

"Obi-Wan looked up at the Kaminoan, to see his eyes glowing with pride as he looked out upon his creation. There were no ethical dilemmas as far as Lama Su was concerned, Obi-Wan knew immediately. Perhaps that was why the Kaminoans were so good at cloning: their consciences never got in the way.

Lama Su looked down at him, smiling widely, prompting a response, and Obi-Wan offered a silent nod.

Yes, they were magnificent, and the Jedi could only imagine the brutal efficiency this group would exhibit in battle, in the arena for which they were grown.

Once again, a shudder coursed down Obi-Wan Kenobi’s spine."

Star Wars - Episode II - Attack of the Clones Novelization

by R. A. Salvatore

#Star Wars #ObiWan #Jedi #Star Wars Clones #Attack of the Clones #Obi Wan Kenobi #Jedi Order #Jedi positivity #Star Wars prequels #AotC #in defense of the jedi #obi-wan kenobi #Attack of the Clones Novelization #SW prequels

[jedi-enthusiast]

Ngl I think a lot of people, when they talk about Jedi and attachments and how "the Jedi should be allowed to have them," just plain ignore the single most important show of attachment in all of Star Wars.

Padme and Anakin.

Obviously people bring them up 24/7 when they want to bash the Jedi or pretend that Anidala is the epitome of a "healthy relationship" (lmao), but when it comes to the actual point of how their relationship is framed and how it highlights how attachment works/what it does---suddenly all the discussion around Anakin and Padme disappears!

Anakin's attachment to Padme and his unwillingness to let her go is LITERALLY what ends up killing her!!!

He has dreams of her dying, becomes convinced that those dreams are what's gonna happen (despite the unreliable nature of visions), and---instead of actually telling anyone anything in enough detail so they could actually help---he:

- Starts working with a Sith Lord

- Massacres a Temple full of children, the elderly, the injured, etc. and the people who were caring for them

- Helps commit a genocide

- Overthrows democracy

And then, once Padme won't support him vying for them to control the galaxy, he becomes convinced that she's betrayed him and attempts to kill her---then, later on, because of Anakin's actions Padme dies.

----------

THAT is what attachment is and what it does.

Attachment is being unable, unwilling, to let someone go, no matter what that might mean for you or them, because you don't want to go through life without them---and the people you try to hold onto so tight ultimately get crushed in your grip because of it.

Think of it like holding someone's hand.

Non-attachment would be, when the other person wants to stop, letting them slip away and being happy with what you had while you had it---being content whether they choose to stay by your side or run off to go do something else.

Attachment would be, when the other person tries to let go, tightening your grip or grabbing their wrist---hurting them because you don't want there to even be a chance that you would be without them.

----------

So no, the Jedi were not wrong to teach non-attachment and they should not have "changed their philosophies so they were allowed to have attachments" like some people have suggested, because attachment is unhealthy and selfish and all it does is end up hurting those around you.

#star wars #sw prequels #anti anakin skywalker #anakin skywalker critical #anti anidala #anidala critical #pro jedi #in defense of the jedi

[david-talks-sw]

How the narrative framed Mace Windu, back in 2002

So there's this 2002 book written by Marcus Hearn, edited by J.W. Rinzler, titled Attack of the Clones - The Illustrated Companion. It was released a month before Episode II was released.

AKA, before EU material and anti-Jedi fanon could publicly reframe the meanings of the film... and before more recent narratives could reinterpret the character of Mace as a robotic, protocol-worshipping stickler who never bends the rules (when evidence shows he's anything but).

So how does Marcus Hearn - "untainted" by all the above factors, armed only with the Prequel films and their screenplays - frame the character of Mace Windu?

MACE & ANAKIN

Fandom: "Mace hated Anakin from Day #1 and never trusted him. Mace was probably jealous as he always thought he was the Chosen One, not Anakin!"

Attack of the Clones' - The Illustrated Companion:

"Jedi Masters Yoda and Mace Windu lead the High Council in rejecting Qui-Gon's application to train Anakin, 'He is too old,' concludes Mace Windu. 'There is already too much anger in him.'

Hearn explains that the problem with Anakin wasn't that he was just too old, it's that because of that age he had become too filled with fear and anger to a point where taking on the Jedi training would be twice as hard for him as it already was for everyone else.

Hearn doesn't chastise Mace for this initial decision. On the contrary, he adds more context to it by using a line from the screenplay to explain where Mace is coming from.

He also goes further into Mace's view of Anakin throughout the book:

"[Mace] over-estimates Anakin Skywalker, paying little credence to Obi-Wan's protestations that the boy is too confused and disturbed to be dispatched on a solo mission."

"The Jedi Council is aware of Anakin's exceptional skills, and Mace Windu believes Anakin may fulfill the prophecy that says a being will one day bring balance to the Force. But Anakin still has a lot to learn…"

He's basically stating that Mace believes in Anakin, but that doing so is a mistake. Which, to be fair, considering how things turn out for Mace and the Jedi... is kinda true!

Mace's problem with Anakin is almost the opposite of what most of the fandom projects onto him.

It's not that he dislikes Anakin, on the contrary, he holds Anakin in too high of an esteem and is overlooking Anakin's glaring flaws because "hey, Anakin's the Chosen One. He's got this!"

That's not the only flaw Mace has, according to Hearn.

MACE'S (and the Jedi's) ONLY REAL FLAW

Fandom: "Mace and the Jedi had become too emotionally detached, they had lost touch with the common folk by spending too much time in their ivory tower. They focused so much on being selfless that they forgot how to care, they've become a bunch of elitist, righteous sticklers for protocol who care more about upholding laws than actually helping the people those laws are meant to protect!"

Attack of the Clones' - The Illustrated Companion:

"Although he is a senior member of the Jedi Council, little in Mace Windu's experience has prepared him for the looming threats of the dark side of the Force and Count Dooku's Separatists."

"Mace Windu's faith in the Jedi to protect the Republic is admirable, but it also blinds him to the true scale of the growing menace. He is aware that the dark side is growing, but still allows himself to be too easily reassured about the Separatists' ambitions. [...] Mace fatally misjudges Count Dooku, refusing to believe he could be behind any attempt on Senator Amidala's life. 'Dooku was once a ledi, he tells Padmé. 'He couldn't assassinate anyone. It's not in his character.'"

"Mace Windu's strengths are, in many ways, qualities shared by the Jedi Order as a whole - he is an accomplished diplomat and a fine swordsman. Such skills have served the Jedi well in their role as the galaxy's peacekeepers for a thousand generations. But such skills are not enough to save the Jedi from their own complacency, and the tumultuous changes that threaten to wipe them out forever."

Hearn perfectly grasps what the Jedi's only real flaw is, in George Lucas' intended narrative: they were unprepared, complacent, they were blind... and now they're stuck playing catch-up.

But when he's saying that, he's not blaming them for it. Because this flaw doesn't derive from some sense of elitism or superiority... it is an inevitable consequence of their qualities.

They've managed to stay out of politics as neutral diplomats... ... but that makes them vulnerable to the Sith's plot, which primarily takes place within the political arena, where they have no control or experience.

They are painfully aware of the corruption in the Senate... ... but as a result, they're too quick to trust the Separatist's talking points as well-meaning and genuine, instead of seeing the movement for what it really is: greedy big business trying to become the government.

They trust and agree with Dooku, believe in what he publicly stands for (after all this man used to be one of the wisest and kindest members of the Jedi Order, Mace's friend, Yoda's Padawan, etc)... ... but as such, they are blind to his true nature, that of a treacherous Sith who'd stoop to orchestrating assassinations.

The Jedi have their guard up, knowing that there's another Sith Lord still out there, orchestrating in the shadows... ... but they can't really find him, because the Dark Side has clouded everything, so only darksiders are able to sense the possibilities of the future! Them serving the good side is screwing them over, in this situation.

Flaws such as being too trusting or being unprepared, letting your guard down because you've established a 1000-year-peace, are flaws that kind, noble characters such as the Jedi are bound to have.

They may be flaws, but they aren't faults. And considering the way he describes Mace and the Jedi, it's clear Hearn grasps the nuance.

MACE'S RELUCTANCE TO JOIN THE WAR

Fandom: The Jedi joined the war out of arrogance, they thought they could swashbuckle their way through the problem and win, instead they didn't realize that they lost the very moment they joined.

Attack of the Clones' - The Illustrated Companion:

"Mace Windu believes in the Jedi as keepers of the peace - not as soldiers - but there comes a point when he reluctantly realizes that it is time to take affairs out of the realm of diplomacy."

Mace and the Jedi didn't want to start a war. If you read the script for Attack of the Clones, Mace and Bail keep grasping at straws to not engage with the Separatists up til the very end.

But when you consider that...

the Geonosians are about to execute Obi-Wan without a trial,

and the Separatists leaders have been unmasked as a coalition of unscrupulous corporate assholes who are willing to plunge the galaxy in chaos just to make more money.

... at some point, the Jedi have to come to terms with the fact that Separatist leadership (and Sidious) won't accept diplomacy because they want a conflict. A conflict will make them all richer. And the Republic, well, they're just dying to go to war too.

So the Jedi go save Obi-Wan and capture Dooku, hoping that in doing so, the conflict ends before it begins. They succeed in the former goal... but fail the latter one.

The Clone War has begun.

From there on, the Jedi are drafted to lead the war. Which is why - as Hearn points out - Mace was so reluctant to take action in the first place. The Jedi are ambassadors, they are not built for war... and now they've been forced into one.

Mace is by no means a perfect character... but he's someone doing his best. Just like Obi-Wan, just like Yoda, and all the other Jedi.

Overtime, Windu's character has been dumbed down to either "that one angry black man" or "the dogmatic emotionless dick who hated Anakin"... and I really think that that's not what we were meant to see him as.

The way Marcus Hearn (who also wrote The Cinema of George Lucas) refers to him is a much more charitable interpretation of how others (ahem Filoni ahem) do, nowadays.

#Mace Windu #mace windu appreciation #long post #jedi order #anakin skywalker #meta #in defense of the jedi #star wars #master windu #samuel l jackson #attack of the clones #aotc #star wars prequels #flashing gif #very long post

[currentlyobsessedwithobi-wan]

Just read somewhere that "Anakin needs more attachments". Sure Anakin needs more people whose wellbeing he'll put above anyone else, above the whole galaxy. So that he can go on another killing rampage when something happen to one of his attachment.

If you ask me, he doesn't need more people that he can't live without, what he needs is to learn how to love healthily. I mean even if he wasn't a Jedi supposed to love selflessly, I wouldn't call his way to love healthy.

But that's just my opinion.

#pro jedi #in defense of the jedi #star wars #anakin critical #attachments #star wars prequels #anakin skywalker #jedi order

[the-far-bright-center]

Disney SW fans who claim to love Anakin but think the Prequels suck, you're part of the problem. And the OT purists who hate the Prequels and then turn around and blame them for why Disney SW sucks...yeah, you're part of the problem too.

One of the many reasons the Disney SW 'Sequels' were so terrible and destructive was because the people making them decided to completely ignore the importance of the Prequels and reject them as an intrinsic part of the saga. And they seemed to believe they were pandering to 'what the fans wanted' by doing this. But the Prequels are half the entire story as Lucas told it, and they just threw it out the window. The Prequels COMPLETED the saga. But Disney pretended that the saga wasn't complete yet and that it was up to them to do so. Instead of just making 'interquel' material from the beginning (like Rogue One, etc), they arrogantly took it upon themselves to 'finish' a story that was already completed back in 2005. And in doing so, Disney also decided to reframe the saga into something decidedly lesser (a repetitive grimdark story where the cycle 'wasn't broken ackshually', instead of an uplifting and transcendent mythic fairytale), but one which would allow them to continue making 'new canon' material indefinitely (cause that is more lucrative for them). But the Prequels had already reframed the saga and given it a very specific meaning. Without the Prequels, ALL of Star Wars loses that meaning. And without a happy ending for the OT characters and an unequivocally positive resolution to the their storyline, the entire saga is rendered into a perpetual tragedy. So, unless and until so-called 'Star Wars fans' can acknowledge and embrace just how intrinsic the Prequels are to the fictional story they supposedly 'like', they will be running around in circles trying to blame Disney's failures on the very thing that Disney so carelessly ignored and discarded in the first place.

#anti-disney #pro-lucas saga #the skywalker saga #the real skywalker saga #pt x ot saga #anakin skywalker #Anakin is the Chosen One #and he SAVES THE GALAXY #and Disney stans and OT purists alike can go cry about it #prequels defense squad #prequels appreciation #i am am PT x OT fan for life #that's the actual saga

[kyliafanfiction]

Genuinely - what were the Jedi supposed to but join the war, under the circumstances they started and given the things the Separatists were doing?

Genuinely - what is your proposed alternative for them that would have magically saved everything?

#Grumping #Star Wars #The Prequel Trilogy #In Defense Of The Jedi #Jedi Order

[nateofgreat]

"If the Jedi are so great why do so many of them fall!"

Over the course of the George Lucas movies, there was a grand total of two defections (Dooku and Anakin), two. Broadening it to include all the movies there're five or so in the Sequel Trilogy if you count the unconfirmed theory that the Knights of Ren were also former students of Luke's.

So, that's about seven defections out of 10,000 in the movies themselves. But okay, when people talk about this they're usually talking about wider canon. So, everything I've personally seen put together there's...

-Bariss Offee (dang it Dave) and Pong Krell from the Clone Wars.

-Bode Akuna from Jedi Survivor.

-Baylan Skoll from Ahsoka.

-The Grand Inquisitor from Rebels.

-And Reva Sevander from Kenobi.

So taken altogether the Jedi are shown to experience about seventeen defections over the course of the movie era. Again, out of ten thousand members. Pretty good ratio I've got to say. The average organization of that size would have more turncoats.

The only case of mass defection I've seen in SW canon personally is in the confused, biased, and cynical world of the KOTOR games. Which made so little sense even by its own logic that they eventually had to write up some excuse like, "Oh uh, actually Vitiate/Valkorian/whatever mind tricked Revan!"

So I personally wouldn't even count it. As for the reason why these defections happen, it's pretty simple. Temptation, they give in to fear, to anger, pride, etc, and let it corrupt them. It sucks but it's something everyone struggles with varying extents.

#Star Wars #The Jedi #The Jedi Order #Pro Jedi #Jedi defense #In defense of the Jedi #anti jedi bashing #The Original Trilogy #The Prequel Trilogy #The Sequel trilogy #SW Rebels #TCW #KOTOR critical #KOTOR criticism #anti KOTOR

[brachiosaurus-on]

/gen, i saw the “uncharitable jedi takes” in response to that last ask (i love it), and i just had a question about the “war crimes” box because it’s the only one i feel has a bit of… validity i guess? i know the typical response to that is the geneva conventions don’t exist in star wars and therefore stuff like false surrender isn’t a war crime but it still feels weird to me? i guess i’m just interested in the deconstruction of that accusation? again, /gen

Hello anon! Thank you for a genuine ask! I will try to give a decent breakdown of why I find the accusation flimsy.

So, "war crimes" is a box on the card because it's often thrown around as a very serious condemnation of the Jedi without consideration for what makes the accusation so serious. Usually the accusation is thrown with the intent of evoking an emotional & moral reaction against the Jedi through the same emotional & moral reaction one would have against war crimes. This tends to gloss over what actually makes a war crime.

War crimes are a rejection of the concept that war justifies brutality and inhumane atrocities. The root of this is harm done to people. This article is from the BBC and gives a brief overview of what a war crime is, why they were codified into international law, and some of what constitutes a war crime. (The article is dated from 2014, so you may want to find more up to date or detailed sources if you're doing more research, but I thought it was a concise & well-written overview that helps explain the point I want to make. It's a quick read, check it out before you continue.)

When people make this accusation against the Jedi, they often cite examples where the Jedi are fighting a droid army. Battle droids are not people. Battle droids are machines designed to autonomously kill people. These machines do not have any true choice or free will of their own. "We're independent thinkers. Roger, roger," indicates that each machine is individually autonomous and will carry out its designed function & programming as long as it remains functional. That programming is to kill and destroy. I reiterate: it will kill and destroy, on its own, until it is deactivated, destroyed, or given other orders.

Now I pose the following questions: is it a crime to deceive and destroy these machines? Should these machines be given the same regard as any life form? Is there harm done when these machines are destroyed? Should the safety of these machines be given equal consideration as the lives they are programmed to end?

Star Wars is not science fiction. It is fantasy in a science fiction setting. The sentience of droids is not the point and battle droids especially are not treated with any form of sentience in the narrative because they are not sentient life forms.

Should the Jedi treat machines with the same respect they treat living people? Or, do they have a duty to protect life from killing machines? Should they use the same tactics on droids that they use on people? Or, do they have more options to defeat the onslaught because they do not need to consider enemy lives as there are no enemy lives?

If the Jedi are to be accused of "war crimes" at least put a living enemy on the other side. Ki-Adi resorting to extreme weapons against the Geonosians? Sure, there are questions to be asked about the ethics, but to respond fairly, the full circumstances must be considered, and if it's to be called a war crime there's a higher bar for that argument. Should he prioritize enemy lives over the lives of his own troopers? When the willing enemy combatants are defending factories that build extermination machines? There is no perfectly moral answer; there isn't always a perfectly moral answer. These are situations where you get to make your own judgment call about the story. Do you think it's unethical? Do you think it constitutes a war crime? Do you think it's worthy of prosecution? How do you weigh your personal opinion against the narrative intention in your interpretation of the story?

When the accusation of "war crimes" is thrown at the Jedi, it's very often not accurate to start with, and ignores the reason that war crimes are so serious. I've seen many accusations of "war crimes" thrown that tell what a war crime is, but don't talk about why it's bad, because when you consider why a war crime is a crime, the argument against the Jedi starts falling apart.

tldr: is it a "war crime" if the victim is a non-living machine designed to kill living people?

Other people have written some good metas that explore this question from other angles, I'll link some below the cut if you're interested in further reading

This one (by @trickytricky1) goes into whether or not Obi-Wan actually commits perfidy in the TCW Movie.

This one (by @writerbuddha) is similar and includes an example of Anakin in TCW.

This one (by @monjustmon) explores what we know of in-universe laws regarding war crimes.

This one (by @smhalltheurlsaretaken) discusses characters that are portrayed as war criminals.

This one (by @lethebantroubadour) provides a list of acts committed by the Separatists which do have living victims and should constitute war crimes.

#thanks for the ask anon! #this was fun. I'd been meaning to write out my thoughts on this for a while but hadn't gotten around to it #with an engineering background I sure do have opinions about the design and construction of killing machines #but that's a topic for another time #also I'm glad you liked my last ask i had so much fun with it #brachio answers #prequels #clone wars #tcw #star wars #jedi #in defense of the jedi #brachio's meta #meta

[laf-outloud]

Dude also mentions multiple times about the incredibly tough working conditions he saw on set visits. If I'd been the interviewer, I'd have at least asked about Bryan DeLorenzo getting struck by lightening, even if this writer wouldn't respond due to litigation. It sounds like everything we already knew was pretty much confirmed--bad safety, writing changes on the fly (keeping multiple plans in your head is fine, but it's not actually the way most rooms work after breaking out the year at hand)

Yeah, I listened long enough to hear about the set conditions and the guy talked more about the external elements (heat, humidity, mosquitos, swamps, ticks, flooding) that made it extremely difficult. (Though, Gabe was very complimentary of the crew and I didn't hear anything about crew members or producers making it difficult.) It's no wonder they were so behind in shooting. All because Danneel wanted to shoot in New Orleans.

Also, I think asking this person about Bryan probably would have put him in a tough spot and I can see why the interviewer didn't.

As to the writing... seriously... pick your main plot and stick to it. The only things that should be changing are the week to week elements (types of monsters, minor emotional beats, etc.). Your season arc should not be something you switch out for another idea when you realize the one isn't working.

#ask box #anti spn prequel #what a train wreck #anti danneel #anti robbie thompson #in defense of fandom podcast

[mademoiselle-cookie]

Obi-Wan is a Gary-Stu?

This accusation really surprised me. How can we see this guy as a perfect and overpowered being? Annoying at worse, everyone has their own sensitivity, but that's not enough to make him a Gary Stu.

(Warning, what follows is only based on my memories. I can forget stuff)

Is he overpowered with the Force? It's never said or shown that he's special in that area, so he's at most just quite powerful. Nothing to do with Yoda or Anakin who are said to have broken records with their midi-chlorians, anyway. He's very good at animal and mind control, and never fails, but the only one it happens to is a Padawan.

Is he physically strong? Although he knows how to fight very well, he is only a simple human (just boosted by the Force). And from a lightsaber mastery point of view, even though he can take 2 Sith at the same time, he also lost several times against Dooku. And if he is obviously excellent with firearms, he uses them twice max (not counting the Kenobi series which I have not seen). Given his age, what little we see of his physical abilities clearly comes from his training and experience, not from an incredible innate talent.

Does he have a prestigious position? He is a Council Member, the governing body of the Jedi Order, but he is also not the Grand Master of the Order or the Head of the Council. Even if he looks younger than the others, it's never emphasized. And the Council itself is subordinate to the Senate. Even a young and kind Senator like Riyo thought she could give him orders as she pleased.

Is it particularly special? He is not the chosen one of a prophecy, nor the person the embodiment of the Force has chosen as his replacement, or the child of a being extremely powerful and important to the Force itself. He is not even the main character of the saga. In TCW, you really only see 3 of his men, very underdeveloped (mostly Cody), and one gets killed without us seeing Obi-Wan's reaction. Nothing like the 501st. Even though The Mandalorians were brought into TCW for storylines about him, his romance with Satine exists completely for Anakin and not for him. The only thing really special about him is how obsessed villains, and especially Siths, are with him (it's indeed one of the Sue's traits).

Do we particularly praise him? He's the only one I remember having a nickname in the movies/series, and his ship is named after him (again, that's the only one it's about. The others are values like the Endurance or the Resolute). But that's background. When it comes to characters paying him compliments, there are quite a few for someone so well-known. I remember Leia asking for his help in ANH, Qui-Gon in TPM (but he also criticizes him a lot) Anakin in AOTC (but same as Qui-Gon), and I believe Satine (but again she spends more time criticizing him and I think she mostly compliments his looks). On the other hand, there are times when praising him was possible, even logical, but completely missed:

in the Malevolence arc, everyone compliments Anakin for going to the enemy ship (while he's just fixing the consequences of his own decisions) but nothing at all about Obi-Wan following him (which everyone knows);

in the Umbara arc, the 501st compares Krell's incompetence to Anakin's skill, but no word on the only other Jedi on the planet, Jedi who loves and protects his men, Jedi who knows about the 501st and reassured blue virus survivors when their own General didn't care, Jedi who will lose one of his most known men for the public;

In Rebel, with the many, many times Rex compliments Anakin, Gregor could have done the same thing, he'd have better reasons to (and I would have cared about his death. I hadn't seen TCW yet at that time).

Anakin (who is admittedly the main character but above all a future Sith who is clearly on this slope apart in TPM) receives MUCH more praise.

Is he of prestigious descent? We don't know his family at all and he never talks about it (again, not seen the Kenobi series). I don't even remember his home planet being mentioned in movies and TV shows. As far as we know, his parents are absolutely nothing special. They are neither kings, nor senators, nor influential, nor rich.

Does he ever fail? Forgetting all about Anakin's downfall because it wasn't his fault, in TPM he lets himself be overcome by anger and grief and almost gets killed by Maul. In the AOTC, he is too arrogant and overprotective to trust Anakin and gets scolded for it. In TCW, he admits that he would have left the Jedi Order for Satine, he allows himself to be dominated by his anger against Maul again, and - even if it is understandable because it was deserved and that he was tortured mentally and physically for several days - the smile he threw at Rex before he killed the Zygerrian does not really fit in with Jedi values.

Does he have a perfect life? His people were slaughtered by his own student whom he raised, the galaxy he swore to protect applauded this genocide, those responsible for this massacre rose to power, his master, the woman he loved and a close friend died before his eyes, he ended up spending 19 years on a desert planet that was nothing, Bail Organa died along with his entire planet, and in the OT era he, Yoda and Luke were the last Jedi alive.

So no.

Of course, when you're next to the walking disaster that is Anakin, it's easy to look perfect (especially since Obi-Wan is literally the foil of Anakin, the example of what he should be or do). Add to the fact that he's played by a handsome, charismatic actor and the character is funny and calm, where main character Anakin was extremely embarrassing and creepy, the comparison stings and can make people who identify with the latter uncomfortable.

That doesn't mean Obi-Wan is actually perfect. He would not have needed to have development arcs in TPM and AOTC. And that's why we love him. Not because he's perfect (95% of people who say that are joking) and everything is easy for him, but because it's extremely, painfully hard. He tries. He always tries to be good, to do good. He always, always does his best. He's just a human, with flaws and selfish desires, which makes his repeated choices to stay on the light side, even after losing everything, even more beautiful.

#Obi-Wan is so full of love dammit #he suffered so much your honor #and he's still a good guy #But I guess the real problem with Obi-Wan #is that he's proof that a tragic life is no reason to become a villain #pro-jedi #in defense of the jedi #obi wan kenobi #star wars #anti anakin #anakin critical #prequel trilogy #mary sue #obi-wan is love #pro jedi #my post #jedi appreciation #obi wan appreciation

[tkw92]

The continual labeling of the PT Jedi as flawed, arrogant, complacent, etc., along with a majority of criticism towards them has crossed the line into victim-blaming. Over the years, those words have become short-term explanations for why they deserved to eradicated, but I can't agree with that bullshit. It is not my intention to call them perfect, but I don't fault them for being skeptical about the Sith's return when there was no evidence for centuries or for getting involved in the war because refusing to do so would violate their main goal of maintaining peace across the galaxy.

In addition, the animosity towards the Jedi for not being perfectionists dismisses the actions of the actual villains aka Palpatine along with the Sith. You know, the big contributor for why the conflict between the Republic and Sepratists happened in the first place alongside their numerous crimes during their tenure as the dominant faction of the galaxy.

I understand that the Jedi had some issues to work on. However, those changes could have been implemented without outright manslaughter as they still acted for the good of the galaxy. It's really frustrating how people put them on the same level as the Sith, when that was never the case.

#star wars #pro jedi #prequel trilogy #pro jedi order #jedi defense squad

[shouchiku]

also kristoph gavin ace attorney i mean it there's no good reason for us not to play as him in a prequel to aa4 it would help expand on kristoph's character in ways that were teased in the game it would shift the status quo by making us play as one of the series' culprits and apollo could perfectly fit the companion role and we could see more of their dynamic. i know playing as a series villain seems counterintuitive but if the trilogy could do it the aa series can do it again

#ace attorney #kristoph gavin #apollo justice #i know this is never happening i just think about how we could hypothetically follow up on aa4 a lot. #one of the big difficulties is like. characters who would make good protags AND are defense attorneys #and have connections to the topics that need to be followed up on #cause like sure athena game but. she . isn't really a good focal point for following up on aa4's promises #and i'd love an ema game but edgeworth got that series -_- #trucy SHOULDN'T be a lawyer. because being a magician is too important to her #apollo fucked off. #so. kristoph gavin prequel.

[jedi-enthusiast]

Call me crazy, but I know for a fact that I would not want a romantic relationship if I was a Jedi.

If I lived somewhere where I was a part of a community of people that I considered my mentors, my friends, my family; if I lived somewhere where I was encouraged to learn, to travel, to help people, to enjoy life as it is, and better myself; if I lived somewhere where I was supported and loved and cared for by the community, and I did the supporting, the loving, the caring for other people in the community as well; if I lived somewhere where it wasn't constantly implied, or sometimes outright stated, that my worth was tied to me marrying a man, popping out children, and making money...

...if I was a Jedi, I can honestly say that the thought of pursuing a romantic relationship probably wouldn't cross my mind at all---not unless I met someone specific whom I felt that sort of connection with, but even then, I probably wouldn't give up being a Jedi to be with them because I'd feel more fulfilled as a Jedi than I would in a romantic relationship.

I honestly don't understand the assumption that the Jedi are miserable because they can't get married, I really don't.

If you feel like you wouldn't be able to be fulfilled without a romantic partner, then that's fine! Everyone's different! We all have different wants and needs! But just accept that you wouldn't be fulfilled without a romantic relationship and stop acting like it's impossible for anyone else to feel differently.

The Jedi all seem perfectly happy as they are.

#star wars #sw prequels #pro jedi #pro jedi order #jedi appreciation #jedi order appreciation #in defense of the jedi

[david-talks-sw]

"The idea of it..."

This is obviously a reference to the ol' argument:

"The Jedi weren't bad but the Jedi Order as an institution needed to go."

So as a quick reminder I thought I'd point out:

1) George Lucas describes the Jedi's eradication as a sad thing, not something sad-but-necessary:

"[The] Jedi getting killed through the Order 66 of the clones is just done as one of those kind of inevitable pay offs in terms of getting rid of everybody, the Emperor is getting rid of all his enemies, but there’s a certain inevitability of it all and a sadness to it.  - Revenge of the Sith, Director’s Commentary, 2005

2) Out of 770 George Lucas quotes, I've never seen him refer to the Jedi Order as "an institution" once.

He does refer to the Republic itself as an institution.

"[In The Phantom Menace one of the many storylines is] the story of a young queen who's faced with the total annihilation of a people, and how she can get a sluggish political institution to pay attention to what's going on." - Premiere, 1999

He might be referring to the Senate instead of the Republic as a whole, but the point stands: he's not talking about the Jedi.

Which tracks with what Lucas defined as Dooku's reason for leaving the Order: his disenchantment with the Republic/Senate, not the Jedi themselves.

But let's go slightly further:

The Jedi Temple was designed as a place of worship that would contrast with the corporate coldness of the Senate.

Also, the Jedi were originally designed as a more organized police force. As the script evolved, they were turned into peacekeepers, diplomats.

Mace's room was redesigned so as to not convey that the Jedi were mired in bureaucracy and protocol.

And when describing the political situation of the Prequels, Lucas doesn't blame the Jedi, but rather the corporations and Senate:

"But as often happens when wealth and power grow beyond all reasonable proportion, an evil fueled by greed arose. The massive organs of commerce mushroomed in power, the Senate became corrupt, and an ambitious named Palpatine was voted Supreme Chancellor." - Shatterpoint, Prologue, 2004

Wow, it's looking like not only is the "Jedi Order as an institution needed to go" narrative not a thing per Lucas, but

3) Lucas went out of his way to make it clear that the Jedi aren't the issue, here, the Republic/Senate is.

So how did we get this narrative?

Well, it comes from a generation of fans and Star Wars creators who were not the target audience.

You know the type. It's the kind who, when asked if they like the Prequel Trilogy, will respond that they liked...

... but not the execution.

AKA they disliked the Prequels, but then EU books and The Clone Wars came out and provided them with enough material to form a headcanon justifying why they didn't like the Jedi, despite wanting to: it's because the Jedi are meant to be disliked! Totally!

The Jedi failed as an institution is an idea that comes from authors who wanted to engage with the material (it IS Star Wars, after all) but not the narrative that George Lucas had crafted, whose work then influenced older fans who preferred the author's retconned version of the story to the original one.

The rest is history.

As Prequels producer Rick McCallum put it:

"The myth begins on paper. During preproduction, filming, and postproduction, the myth becomes visible through the work of hundreds of dedicated people. Following the film's release, the myth becomes public and the public makes it its own." - Rick McCallum, Mythmaking: Behind the Scenes of Attack of the Clones, 2002

#I find it ironic that Filoni unwittingly gave Baylan the same line repeated by 'Prequel fans' who only became fans by... #... injecting gray morality into the films and said “it was there all along! the Prequels are subversive films!” #They're not. They're films for kids. The SITUATION is more complex than in the Original Trilogy... but the morality is still good vs evil. #baylan skoll #ahsoka series #jedi order #george lucas #meta #star wars #ahsoka spoilers #ahsoka show #ahsoka #in defense of the jedi

[currentlyobsessedwithobi-wan]

I keep seeing this meme saying that Anakin would have listened to Padme at the end of RoTS if he didn’t see Obi-wan standing here.

Now maybe the meme is a joke, or maybe the person who created it really believe that. But thats not really important. What bug me is that so many people firmly believe that it's true and are "mad" about it.

My question is, then what? If Anakin did listen to Padme then what ? They run away together and live happily ever after after he commited a genocide ? Also Anakin is already so fucking paranoid at this point, thinking everyone just want to betray him or whatever. I personally think that even if he did listen to her and they run away or something, he would never fully trust Padme again. I don't know about you but I dont want to live with someone who would constantly question my loyalty (though to begin with i wouldn't want to live with someone who commited genocide).

I'm not making much sense here, I think. But basically what I'm trying to say is that even if Anakin did listen to Padme, it wouldn't make him a better person. It wouldn't magically erase hs crimes or bring back the lives that he took. Wouldn't change the fact that he killed children who obviously trusted him to protect them.

To me, Anakin's redemption in the Original Trilogy only works (kinda) because he's dead. If he was still alive, I wouldn't care that he killed Sidious to protect his son. Even if it does make the galaxy a better place, I would still want him to rot in prison. So no, even if Anakin had listened to Padme and magically became a "better person", it wouldn't work for me.

#star wars prequels #star wars #jedi order #pro jedi #in defense of the jedi #anakin critical #anti jedi bashing

[the-far-bright-center]

People saying 'everyone loves Hayden Anakin now that he has a good script'....FUCK OFF. The script was never the actual reason the dudebro fanboys hated Anakin in the Prequels. They had already viciously hated on little Ani back in TPM. And not because of so-called 'bad writing', but because he was a cute, precocious little kid and they couldn't stand that being associated with their beloved 'badass' Vader. And likewise, they IMMEDIATELY decided to hate Anakin in AotC when Hayden was cast because he was a pretty boy instead of whatever headcanon they wanted for him. They resented Anakin in the Prequels because he was first depicted as a sweet and caring child who loved his mother, and then later because he was an emotionally vulnerable young man who had a romantic storyline and was motivated by love and his fear of losing those he loved. The fanboys hated Prequels Anakin because he wasn't Vader. They wanted Vader. They have always worshipped Vader. THAT is the reason. Not the script. Seriously, there are so many older male fans who are STILL bitter over a 'pretty boy' playing Anakin. Stop blaming the script for everything. The Prequel films and Hayden Anakin were only thought to be universally 'hated' due to the fact that the fanboys ruled the internet in those early days, and spread the hate around with no one to counter it. The Prequels are way better films than anything Disney could EVER hope to produce, and it's infuriating that people are acting like the material Disney of all things churns out is somehow the 'reason' people like Hayden Anakin now. No, it's because they've had time to go back and appreciate his role in the Prequels and seen that it's actually a compelling story and his performance is, in fact, good.

#anti-disney #pro-lucas saga #prequels defense squad #seriously gtfo with that bullshit #especially if you weren't THERE and did not experience how the hate ACTUALLY manifested back then #no one cared about the damn script #despite people making fun of 'i don't like sand' it wasn't that big of a deal #the issue was simply that the dudebros decided they hated Lucas' version of Anakin in the Prequels and that was that #they just never opened their minds enough to actually appreciate him #believe it or not Hayden actually respected Lucas' vision for Anakin and for the Prequels #he understood what Lucas was trying to convey #so please kindly FUCK OFF with the Prequels hate