#most of my issue with BT is the shippers honestly | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

alohaasaloevera · 3 months

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Uhhhhhh I promise I’m cooking something up guys. Promise… I’ll even show you the plan(?)

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(Directly pasted from discord but I make it more Tumblr Talk A.K.A punctuating and rephrasing my unpunctuated word vomit)

Klance post canon, but the internet is obsessed over Keith. Since the internet is the internet, they end up graphically talking about how much they want to smooch Keith and do some Stuff with him, and Lance is not very happy about this.

Some random event comes up, and overnight Lance is instantly trending on social media!! He now has a bunch of people drooling over him too!!

The paladins do go attend galas and interviews and all that schmooze because they are celebrities (they literally saved the world??). People eat the content that is posted up, and that’s when the first few klance shippers rise. Most people are like “??? Where did you get that from” but the klancers are confident in their ship.

Keith and Lance are put into their old “rival” dynamic—instead of combat-related issues, it’s now about who is hotter. People argue about this A LOT and honestly KL probably talks about their rivalry in at least one of the interviews,which makes the fans EVEN CRAZIER!!

The Klancers are seen as delusional for picking up the (VERY REAL) fond looks Keith gives Lance in interviews because “Keith isn’t gay!!” (*cough* Lance is openly bi)

AND THEN LANCE GETS CASTED TO STAR IN A TV SERIES??? Everyone is pumped especially because he’s one of the main characters and he’s being paired with this one pretty girl (IT COULD BE ANY POPULAR WOMAN IDK) that he’s met up with a couple of times.

Flash forward to the series debut (and maybe even the second season) and people ARE GOING FERAL! Not only because Lance and the girl in the show are depicted as a really cute couple and have a really good development of their relationship throughout the first like 2 seasons before they get together (WHAT KLANCE COULD’VE BEEN, DREAMWORKS.), but mainly because there’s a NEW leaked bts where Lance is spinning the girl around in the rain and doing romantic stuff idk and people are posting about how they want to go jump in a highway

But then someone posts a video of lance spending time with keith IN THIS LITTLE LAKE WITH A WATERFALL!!1!1!!1 AND HE’S TWIRLING KEITH AROUND JUST LIKE HE DID WITH THE GIRL??1?1!!1?

The internet explodes again.

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things to note:

Keith is giggling in the video. Don’t ask why, I’m just correct.

The romance between Lance and The Girl in the series WILL BE 200% non-toxic. This is so I can make a plethora of people scream and cry over it in the fic, just like how they did with klance in 2017 (Except for the fact that. Y’know… they didn’t end up together 💀💀).

Jealousy will be a huge element in the story. Whether it’s Lance/The Girl or Keith/I don’t fucking know, there is going to be lots of yearning.

Uhhhhh I’m terrible at making stories and consistently updating so I can’t promise you a completed fic!!

If I do end up committing to The Bit and completing the story, I would aim for it to be around at least 50k(?), with like 20 chapters at most.

I am NOT finished with VLD (currently on 4x6), so as I run through the seasons there is probably going to be more and more references to the show as I update!

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Thanks for reading this whole little thing!! I will say some of this was inspired by the fic Headlines by an orphan account. I highly recommend the fic!

I hope to get the first chapter of this fic out by next week (the 27th), but I am also notorious for procrastinating, so we’ll see.

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mrs-monaghan · 1 year

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Hey I’m new to bts and I love Jikook although I don’t believe they’re a couple yet because. My friend advised me to watch the original bts content before watching the shipper videos because they’re misleading. I’ve been watching all vlives, bang tan bombs, award shows, Bon voyage, and ITS. When I watched all those, I noticed that Jimin gives Tae more attention than any other member, I noticed that Jk gives Jin, and Tae more attention, V gives Jimin and Jhope more attention. I also noticed that the way Jikook communicate is normal and nothing suspicious about it. I then decided to watch Jikook videos because I accidentally watched one when I was searching for Jimin’s song serendipity and came across the Jikook serendipity analysis. I’m now in the rabbit hole. I came across your page and you talked about “the news article that was ready to out Jkk’s relationship back in 2018”. I just wanted to know where you heard that and if there is any proof because I’m a person who doesn’t dwell on conspiracies but rather proof. Another thing, did they really get married because most of the videos mentioned how they got married during their trip to Tokyo. Another thing, are there any pictures of them hangout and living together. Thank you.

You watched BV and noticed Jimin gives V more attention? You watched original content and noticed that JK gives V and Jin more attention?

I am so confused as to what you're talking about. I would bite if u said JK giving Jin more attention but V? What exactly are u watching? Are you sure its not that shipper content that you say you're avoiding? Specifically tkk content? Which ftr you will rarely find Jikook manipulated content. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but its rare. We don't need to manipulate. They give us everything on a silver platter.

I shared the dispatch thing not long before this scroll lower u will see it. No, Jikook are not married. They can't be married. And even if they did it wouldn't be recognised in SK. And at the time of them going to Tokyo, Japan hadn't recognised gay marriage yet. Jikook married as far as I know its something Jikookers like to say coz they act like a married couple. But they have been spotted with matching rings on more than one occasion which is a reason for suspicion.

I already don't like u from your V comment but sure let's look at a few things.

I always bring this up because no one ever talks about it but I honestly love it so much and it really tickled me.

BV season 5 episode 6. Vmin sleep on the bed

JK makes the bed the next morning. Because Jimin is one spoilt boyfriend, alright? But when Vmon slept on that same bed, JK told them

JK definitely favoured Jimin over V there anon.

Run BTS episode 71 JK makes a big pancake for Jimin because he had a penalty to do

The kicker is though, anon. That Jin too was doing the same penalty.

Why didn't JK make him a pancake too? Doesn't that seem like JK played favourites with Jimin and not Jin? 🤔

In the Soop season 1 episode 6. We found out V asked JK to speak casually with him

But JK refused because;

Meanwhile we have him going Jiminah! Jimin! Jiminssi! Everywhere all the time. So again anon, JK refused V one thing but has no issue doing it with Jimin.

Bon voyage season 3 episode 4 after Tkk did laundry they went upstairs and JK only checked on Jimin.

He did not check on Jin behind him.

At this point I'm just offended that you haven't picked up on my favourite thing about Jikook and that's satellite Jeon/Jikook. You don't even need compilations to see this. Anything you watch. Anything at all. They are always next to eo. Always.

They're literally always together. And JK always chooses Jimin. Not V and not Jin. Not anyone else. No matter what you watch.

youtube

Me thinks you need to rewatch what you already did because you missed everything.

Like Mizgator said, you're blind if you don't see it

youtube

#ask shaz #bts ask #satellite jeon #jimin and jungkook #jikook #kookmin #minkook #jimin #jungkook #bts #park jimin #jeon jungkook #if jikook isn't real then neither am i #jikook is real #jikook analysis #run jikook #bon voyage jikook

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chim-chim1310 · 9 months

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i find it interesting how surprised people are about how th’s album is performing. non-pop bts releases have never done as well and honestly he’s doing pretty good for the lack of hype in the fandom. i think his stans were expecting that he was either going to get the premium package jk got (lol) or would single-handedly blow the others (particularly jm since they hate him with a passion) out of the water. and now that thats not happening their running around like chickens with their heads cut off bc somehow ig followers and tiktok views do not translate into streams and sales.

i’ve also seen people speculate on how much his whole relationship debacle may or may not have impacted the amount of fans he has, but honestly i dont think it has anything to do with the results he’s getting. the k-reception to their dating rumors was pretty mild and mostly positive. if anything it was i-armys who hate bp’s guts and delusional shippers who had issues with it and shippers are so out of their minds they immediately went into total denial and moved forward with their “husbands” agenda as if nothing ever happened.

nevertheless, i think its amusing to now see him do a personality 180 and want to pander to armys and shippers like never before lmao. not trying to say he doesn’t care about the fans (he came up with borahae after all) but he used to be the most “idgaf about anything and you cant make me” and now that that’s not really working out for him he’s course correcting. it reminds me of jk’s switch-up from “lets go higher” to 2 days later “sorry i just wanted to be cool” which just goes to show how much they keep tabs with what people are saying about them online.

Exactly!!!

Like he's suddenly all about armies armies. I laughed when he said that armies know him better than his dad. Like the ass licking.

Earlier he barely came on live for 1 or 2 minutes, he was the one who would talk shit to armies the most for which armies would call him savage but he was mostly rude. But yeah. He's suddenly so different. Like armies are his everything and shit and he's also doing the ot7 shit too. Like my members are my inspiration and other bullshit that he spewed during his interviews when everyone knows that he spends more time with wooga than with bts.

And you're right. It was just like jk being ungrateful during hot 100 and suddenly he couldn't believe that he won inkigayo and was thankful to fans.

It's funny actually.

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mimibwi · 1 year

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BTS and fanservice

This is a big topic and issue among shippers, so I'll give my opinions on the matter (if anyone cares to read).

BTS members definitely do fan service. There shouldn't be much debate around that but I want to put it out there in the event that someone didn't already know that. All K-pop groups do fan service to some degree and it's fine, in my opinion. It makes things interesting and gets the fans screaming, so who’s complaining?

The conversation about fanservice gets out of control when it comes to shipping. Much of it comes down to what the fans think fan service is. I don't see fan service as completely fake and drawn up by the company's execs. Don't get me wrong, I don’t think the company is completely uninvolved but the theories you present are way too over the top. They come across more like conspiracy theories rather than opinions I can even consider a possibility.

At most, fan service contains acts that build off existing dynamics and sometimes exaggerate them to a certain degree. So while I don't think some of the actions are spur-of-the-moment things (it's evident they talk about/plan some of the moments beforehand) I still don’t think most fan service moments are devoid of any genuine emotions. It’s hard for me to talk about this cause; honestly, I don’t care about the whole calling out fanservice thing. I enjoy all the members’ interactions. Maybe some floor me more than others but I can’t sit here and be mad about two friends interacting.

((A lot more below the cut))

^^All these moments are fanservice in some way or another and they are all cute to me. I don’t get why yall make a big deal out of it so much. Just enjoy it, and smile a little!! Sometimes I wonder how toxic shippers and solos feel when they watch BTS content. You all must be angry as hell when these men (who have known each other for 10+ years, might I add) interact and look happy doing it.

Let me make my points as clear as I can-

some on-stage moments are staged to some degree. I may be wrong but I think I’ve seen a video of Tae saying he wanted to do a moment with Jimin on stage but Jimin was too awkward (lol) so he did it with JK instead. Maybe I hallucinated that cause it's in my memory but I couldn’t tell you where I heard that from. Either way, I am actually convinced this happens often. That or they do something once, see the audience’s reaction, then keep doing it for the other performances.

Fanservice isn’t completely disingenuous. I don’t look at it as a black-and-white conversation. Two members hugging for fans to scream on stage doesn’t take away from their bond. It doesn’t make their entire relationship a fraud. So to me, it’s less of “x ship IS fanservice” and more like “this moment from x ship seems to be fanservice” or “x ship does fanservice sometimes”. I can’t argue with the last two statements for the most part (well I lied, I’m literally countering them with this post in a way) but the first statement makes my skin crawl. It's so dismissive and disrespectful to the boys. — Thinking about it more, I can argue with all the statements even more than I am doing right now because there are moments that are looked into way to deeply. You guys will say “this moment is fanservice” and it’s two members sitting next to each other or talking or looking at each other or *insert any normal interaction that occurs between people who know each other and shouldn’t be seen as a big deal at all*.

*This is me looking for the service (that was so earth-shatteringly obvious and bad that it needed to be called out as such) sometimes.

Please just let people enjoy what they enjoy; it’s not that serious. I know shippers do all of this to fire back at other shippers so it’s just an endless cycle of hate and bitterness but I don’t care tbh you all need to stop it, yall take everything way too far.

Not every on-stage or on-camera moment is fanservice. It's hard for us to distinguish because we never fully know the boy’s intentions at any particular time. This is why I despise this ‘all or nothing,’ ‘black and white’ mindset many shippers have because it can cause you to 1) start digging into moments that aren’t that serious or 2) dismiss real, genuine friendship when it's right in front of you. It’s also frustrating because what one person may think is fs may come across as a genuine moment to someone else then everyone goes to war because of it. The fact of the matter is that none of us know for sure, so we shouldn’t spend time arguing about things when every single one of us could be wrong.

The above points are mainly in reference to on-stage moments. It gets even messier when we discuss the pre-recorded, edited content. This is where you guys lose me even more.

It’s hard to believe that fan service is this huge ordeal and that they plan who will interact with who more. It's also hard for me to think that at this point in their career, BH staff are sitting with these almost thirty-year-old men and telling them how to act. It's absurd to me. While I definitely think there are things they are advised to do or shouldn't do or say, I don't see any of them as the huge conspiracies that fans (shippers) push. So no, the member’s actions are not controlled on the big scale many shippers suggest. I love speculation and theories but there are some things I can't bring myself to speculate about. So the "BH is pushing x ship,” "they edited out all the x ship moments for y ship,” "x member is doing fan service to feed shippers" conversations just bore me for the most part.

Even if they are told to do something, sit somewhere, or get paired together for content, it could simply not be about a ship— at least not in the way people think it is. I mentioned this in my first post but NOT EVERYTHING THESE MEN DO IS ABOUT A SHIP. This is one of the saddest parts of shipping to me. Shippers reduce these beautiful, unique, insanely interesting people to just a ship. “X is sad/hurt/happy because of Y,” NO he could literally just be happy. We’re talking about regular people here, people like you and me, who have so much to offer and shouldn’t be looked at solely through a shipper lens. Whether you think the ship is real shouldn’t matter because this is basic human decency.

The “x ship is being edited out theories”— These, like I mentioned before, bore me and in some instances frustrate me.

How can you say for sure that things you don’t know happened actually happened and were edited out? This kind of shipper logic isn’t for me I fear. I know you could say, “so you’re telling me x and y only interacted once that day?” but it still doesn’t hold up because—

There could be many reasons why a ship moment is cut out. Some possibilities include:

they thought it was boring- lol I don’t know; maybe the editors thought that moment was a snooze fest and they wanted to include things the people would find interesting.

time constraints- with content like ITS or Bon Voyage, where there are days worth of content from seven different perspectives, must be a shitshow to edit. It’s obvious not every interaction will get into the final version. To sit and think the editors intentionally said “We’re out of time? Scrap the x ship parts” is honestly laughable. Let’s be a little serious. Shippers are so funny to me sometimes because I can promise you regular people don’t give af about these ships as much as we do so I doubt they care enough to sabotage them.

it doesn’t fit in the theme of the content- The moment could just not fit in with the overall flow of the content. Maybe there is a particular image they’re trying to draw up with the content and a certain moment throws it off and doesn’t fit the image. With the time constraints I mentioned, it makes sense why they would want to insert some things over others.

something else is happening on screen- I know all shippers get disappointed when it seems like their ship is interacting and the angle changes. BUT that disappointment in that particular moment should not translate into these big conspiracy theories. It’s natural for the camera angle to switch when other things (probably more interesting or things that matter more to the overall content) happen. We’re looking at 7 different people for Christ’s sake.

it’s personal- This should be obvious but I am sure the guys talk about or do things that are just personal. Although I don’t think it’ll be anything crazy considering they’re mic-ed up and are aware they’re on camera, they could just not want certain things out there. They already show us so much (I’m grateful for that 4%) of their lives, I think we should allow them to be able to want things cut out.

*insert other reasons here that definitely does factor in but my brain can’t think of right now*

What irks me the most about these conversations is what they usually always stem from in the first place. They all come from an angle that serves to prove that some ships are better or claim that some ships only interact because they’re forced to. The hypocrisy that comes along with this type of shipping is also quite crazy to me. It’s always the ship you don’t like and that threatens your beliefs that is fanservice/fake/forced when they so much as touch each other but every single interaction between your ship is 100% real. I don’t think you guys hear yourself when you speak sometimes. I will never get why this shipping business needs to be a competition. Like the concept of going to war online over two people’s —who you most likely have never met and don’t know personally— relationship will always be interesting to me. It also doesn't matter whatsoever. No ship’s “realness” should depend on another being fake or worse and if that’s the case then maybe your ship isn’t as real as you think it is. All 21 (I swear I did the math, it’s 21 right??) ships in BTS are unique in their own way and I wouldn’t want any of them to be exactly like another because I love all dearly. Although some dynamics tug on my heart more than others, I will never dismiss any to bring up others because the boys genuinely love each other and I can tell as much.

You know sometimes I blame a lot of shipper logic and theories on the fact that many of us feel like these men’s lives are more interesting than they actually are. It’s so sad because a lot of the drama our brains think up makes the guys victims either to each other or the company. The fanservice argument is just that to me. Why can’t we believe the boys are fine in their current situation, that they enjoy their little fanservice moments to stir up fans but it’s not something they’re being held at gunpoint to do? They’re entertainers after all. Why do you as a fan of these guys, think they’re being completely calculating every time they show up in front of a camera? Why can’t yall believe they’re being as genuine as their situation allows? Maybe this is a naïve way of looking at things but it’s easier and it’s the foundation of my views as an ARMY. Playing the mind fuck olympics whenever a member comes around to spend time with us is exhausting. I don’t even share many of these opinions but simply reading them drains so much out of me. We really do read into certain things way too much and I get that’s the whole point or basis of shipping. Still, it gets really muddy to me when people start victimizing and villainizing parties involved because of the shipper’s (and even solo’s) opinions and perspectives.

In conclusion, I don’t agree with any of the fan service theories nor do I think fan service is a particularly bad thing. Even if I have fleeting thoughts about particular moments, I don’t entertain them too much because I don’t know the whole story. It’s also because I respect the members. I respect their autonomy, their words and their dynamics with each other and entertaining these ideas and theories that obviously (even if it isn’t obvious to you) disregard the things I respect would slowly destroy that. So the two just cannot coexist for me. Plus, this shipper thing just isn’t that serious to me. The only reason I even care to think and even talk about this topic is because of the hate the members get cause of it. It’s unfair:(

Look how cute they all look together while they do their little fan service🥺. #letmybabiesdofanserviceinpeace

ⁱ ʰᵒᵖᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ˢᵃʳᶜᵃˢᵐ ᶜᵒᵐᵉˢ ᵃᶜʳᵒˢˢ ⁱⁿ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ˡᵃˢᵗ ˡⁱⁿᵉ ᶜᵃᵘˢᵉ ⁱ ʳᵉᶠᵘˢᵉ ᵗᵒ ᵉˣᵖˡᵃⁱⁿ ᵐʸˢᵉˡᶠ

~~🐝

#BTS #fan service #shippergate #sope #taekook #vmin #jikook #letmybabiesdofanserviceinpeace #thoughts and analysis #yoongi’s gummy smile is so cute #just be normal idk bro #let my BANG PO i beg

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lyricfulloflight · 2 days

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lol yeah I did mean the klaroline fandom and no like things never got that intense (unless we’re talking about the writers and producers of that show cuz the shitstorms they would stir up dear lord) like yes some of us didn’t like klayley or klamille we made it known lol but for the most part I feel like fandoms were just that … fandoms.

I feel like lately you need a reason for everything you dislike or like you said you’re automatically something for not liking a specific character or ship. And granted some people can be dicks and awful.

Like you I am ambivalent about BT - I think it’s cute to see buck so excited and their relationship is sweet but to me it is still so superficial because we don’t see it play out. When we do it’s such short scenes and it tends to be flirty and cute but we don’t see the nitty and gritty, the softness of them figuring each other out and I need that. Granted I am not a multi shipper. Once I get attached I get attached especially when we see so much growth and such a deep emotional bond between two characters like BE (I agree a 100% on that with you). Though even if we do see that softness with BT i will stay remain ambivalent lol no hate to BT I am just too far gone with BE. My endgame is BE because they have grown together through the years.

Regarding the daddy issues line (and like I have never seen a line create so much chaos before lol) like I don’t kink shame. People need what they need and like what they like. But some people will also have wildly different reactions to it as well. Some may like it some may not. As long as no one’s being a dick to others I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone saying “I did not like it”.

For me the line just felt awkward and flat in that specific situation, for the tone of the episode. The whole episode honestly felt off tone wise for me. Bobby’s life was on the line, the man that has given them advice, and led them and is the center of their family in a lot of ways, literally died for a minute and it felt like we didn’t get that emotional payoff this whole episode.

I would have rather buck and Tommy had stayed soft during that conversation, would have rather them continued talking about their fathers. I would have preferred soft words and soft gestures. That teasing line could have been saved for an episode where things happy and silly and it would have worked because the vibe of the episode would have fit.

lol okay sorry for the rant again. This episode just … I liked it but I felt very underwhelmed emotionally.

Seriously, you and I agree on all points.

Please come off anon and be my friend, we are clearly meant to be friends and hive mind about 911 (I not completely kidding here, its kind of eerie how much we agree)!

I really think the writers missed a huge opportunity with Bobby in the finale. They had a perfect time to really delve into what Bobby means to the team and to his wife - we could have had hospital bedside moments, we could have had chats between the 118 about past calls, or nice things Bobby has done for them. It would have been so emotional and meaningful (for new fans and old fans of the show)!

I also would have been a great ending to the Bobby arc we'd had the past few episodes: Bobby could have been bolstered by the people in his life who love him and know he is a great man and a great firefighter, instead of putting that onto Amir, which just felt so wrong to me.

Amir, this man who has suffered so much and a lot of that is due to Bobby's past mistakes, should not have been put in this position where he was tasked with lifting Bobby out of a dark space! I think his role should have ended in episode 8, his talk with Bobby in the hospital in that episode felt real and didn't put Amir in the position of having to give Bobby forgiveness, because he shouldn't have to.

I also think if the finale had focused more on the bonds between Bobby and the team, we would have gotten those incredible found family moments and feelings we love so much on the show. They have often ended seasons with 'family' moments in the past, moments where the whole 118 is together, or the 118 and their extended families are together and its a great way to wrap up a season!

I will end my rant there...

But my invitation for friendship remains ;)

#911 #911 finale #911 spoilers

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ask-serendipity-sky · 9 months

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*different anon*

we all see what we want to see, we all shippers are the same

not really

in most groups of people there are the more deranged ones (toxic, delusional), but that’s NOT the whole group, usually it’s the minority.

with tkkrs, it’s their majority (damn near their entire group…)

we may make fun of tkkrs, but we shouldn't blame them for celebrating their ship moments. because if that was jkk, we'd be celebrating too.

yes, people are happy when people they like interact, that’s normal

i like when bts interact with eo bc i’m an army, i like when my bts bias line interact bc they’re my biases, and at times i’m happy when jkk interact bc i support them as a potential romantic couple

but jkk is not the pairing/duo i look forward to

and when they interact it’s not that big of a deal to me (unless they’re doing something crazy… gfct, hickey, shirtless live or photo)

i just happen to think they’re romantically involved/dating, but it’s not bc they’re my favorite duo (not that there is an issue if jkk are your favorite, as long as you like them as a duo bc of their bond and not just bc you think their dating!)

a problem a lot of tkkrs have is they either bias tk or tk is their favorite duo, so that is why they "feel" like they should ship them, even if they don't see anything romantic between tk

the amount of 'non jkk' biased (ex: ym biased or rap line biased jkkrs) jkkrs i've seen get questioned on why they don't ship their biases...

and no if the moments are based off mistranslations or stalker content, i don’t “celebrate” that, also bc i don't see it as "winning"

all shippers tend to give excuses to the other ship moments and try to reduce their ship value, but secretly we all wish it was our ship who did it, like tkkrs with jk's thirst birthday wish, they kept making it a friendly thing between bros, yet they were waiting and hoping for jk to do something similar for tae.

tkkrs are insecure losers, ofc they want other moments that others have (mostly jkk) bc they can see tk are not like that

i don’t care about other duos, and honestly if tkkrs left jm and jk alone, i wouldn’t have to even interact with them as much

bc most of the time, it's me protecting jm and jk AS PEOPLE, NOT BC OF SHIPPING BS

and pointing out non significant things isn't just something we do to tkkrs or vice versa, we do it to ourselves (jkkrs to jkkrs). bc we're aware of bts' culture, language, and jkk's history/bond

everyday, a different ship win and other lose, sometimes it's a good day for jkkrs, other days for vminers. and the members know that, that's why they keep feeding those moments.

the members having normal interactions is not the problem, it’s fans not being able to differentiate between a cute friendship and actual romantic relationships

using skinship or basic normal friendly interactions as a basis for romance, explains the whole they're all fcking/dating eo/poly jokes or only excepting queer members if it's bts as a whole group together or certain 'fan approved' ships (tk...)

but it's not something you should really be doing

and sometimes, even if another ship didn't get a moment, it's our ship that don't behave as we anticipated.

jkk don’t behave like we want bc they are potentially actually dating

it’s why so many fans find it hard to self insert and feel like they're third wheeling, and feel uncomfortable/don’t want to see that

what i'm trying to say, is that we are all the same. we all get hurt by other ships or we wish for more moments for our ship, and it's normal because we have no certainty we're right.

you only get hurt if you are basing a potential romantic relationship off of others and their interactions, and not just the two people you think might be involved romantically

i did not care that th didn’t post for jk’s birthday, and the only reason i would care is bc jk is my bias and i like when his ANY of members interact with him and are nice to him (especially for his birthday)

my basis of jkk being real is bc of jm and jk, not any one else

maybe it's different for you because you have evidence, but for the rest of us, we're just sailing not knowing where the ship will land and it can get sad and frustrated sometimes.

if an idea of a relationship being real or not is enough to affect your emotions negatively, then you need to detach anon, before you project those feelings on to jm and/or jk

you need to learn to love jm and jk as individuals and their bond as it is, not just the idea of them being romantic

Hi anon,

I agree with your answers.

For tkkrs, the absence of proof is proof that Jk and Tae are together. There are no maybes for tkkrs. And then they wrap everything up with hate.

We really should learn to not expect particular behavior from the members or jikook. They are real people who sometimes decide to share stuff with us. When they do, we appreciate it and when they don't, we appreciate that as well and move on.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

#skyasks #jikook

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aajjks · 7 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/aajjks/733008745761751040/can-i-say-something-i-honestly-love-bts-as-a?source=share&ref=_tumblr

to be honest I prefer them together, during this period army was infected by solos that use speech to cause discord and shippers gained more space oh and a loooooot of fights I can say that the solos are good but they are not as good as BTS, let's say that BTS is so perfect that not even they are able to surpass the genius of songs like, SAVE ME, FAKE LOVE, ON…. I see BTS singing and not them solo in some members I already predicted some albums like yoongi or hobi, I confess that I was surprised by RM JK was the one who '''''''''''disappointed'''''''' me the most, I expected him to write songs like still with you or the rip decalcomania, I swear I expected a lot more from him in terms of lyrics but not that his work is bad let's say I listen to still with you on repeat It seems like I can't connect with his album because nothing is a biography as he said, so I just see it as covers…. idk..... i just like bts as a group maybe

My surprise with golden is that, in the notice that they said that this album is about jungkooks golden moments as a bts member as I remember (?) but all of the songs turned out to be love songs, not that that’s an issue but big hit loves to surprise us ig.

and indigo is such a masterpiece

#asks

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sizzlingpatrolfox · 1 year

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Not to generalize everyone but as a Filipino living in another country, I am not surprised that most Filos are Taekookers. Remember, the Philippines is a country where the son of an atrocious dictator was elected as President and impeached govt officials are re-elected into positions in the government. Most don’t really make the best decisions 🙄 pitiful actually but makes my blood boil now because no one should dare go against my Jimin lol

I'm not surprised either, because it seems to be a pattern. Taekookers are everywhere, but some Asian countries seem to have the most. I don't know if it's a matter of simply statistics, more population = more people of every type. Of it is a matter of culture, similar to what you say. I just don't have enough information on the culture in the Philippines or the region as a whole, so I can't fully form an idea but I've definitely noticed a pattern.

There are taekookers here in latam, too. Most shippers are yoonminers tho. Or maybe they're not even shippers but they love Yoongi and Jimin together.

It has honestly been a while since I got angry like today. It's been months, I don't even remember when was the last time that something about the fandom annoyed me like this.

It wasn't even about the video itself, but everyone's takes on it and the once again realization that it's never going to end unless BTS members spend years away from each other. And it's not going to happen, so the idea these people have of Jimin is just going to stay that way. The fandom too refuses to look at the problem in the face and acknowledge it. The first step is always recognizing what's wrong and working on that, but the incapacity or just completely disregard for trying to actually find out the root of it all is another issue in itself. They will never accept and deal with the group of people that are the real problem; saddest thing is that it's not all about not knowing, but most armys are part of that group and of course nobody wants to admit to be bad, or to go against their own kind. Jikookers are extremely stupid too for bringing up Jungkook because c'mon.... The kook in taekook is there for a reason. Several reasons. I mean, read the room???? It's giving "vminkook cuddling right now 🫶" yay thanks, that was really helpful and totally eye opening!

I don't even "fight" but situations like this certainly makes you want to go that extra mile for Jimin, doesn't it? He was never deserving of any of this.

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thetaekookcloset · 2 years

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I joined fandom thinking army are so great because never seen any artists appreciating their fans the way BTS does but saw a really different side. Even though I am a jk bias stan, love his voice, the way BTS fans behaviour is so hypocritical. I knew my baby always gets hate from major jikookers and pjms but I also feel pity for Taehyung. I never used to like taekookers because some are really delusional, followed your account only coz you talk sensibly and respects both of them so I respect you in return. Never had much of an impression of Taehyung though coz thought he was always army fav or something and coz of him jungkook gets hate thrown. Even if i am more of indifferent towards Taehyung never want him to get death threat coz that thing is pretty cruel. Now I see army trending dynamite anniversary, freejiminfromtaekookers and complaining about Jim's interview and I am blown away how people are not doing anything for Taehyung. I mean wasn't he a fav? No votes for SDA and death threat thing on Max ot7 account. Wah! I think I need to change my perspective a little. Saw his solo begging people to vote but.... Feeling pity for that guy got a shitty fandom. Might be bitter but it's the truth, funny no Taekook bloggers are addressing this issue.

I hear you, anon -- and thank you very much for your kind words, by the way.

I think the thing is that with a fandom this massive, you’re naturally going to have so many different kinds of people, in every little corner and faction of the fandom. There are shippers and supporters, non-shippers, solos, antis, OT7s, people with biases who still love the group as a whole, and that’s just the people who consider themselves deep fans of at least a member of BTS.

Then we all see different parts of those different aspects of the fandom, and we all choose to engage with them in different ways. I think a lot of people with a bias tend to see their fave as being less well-treated, both by the company and by other fans, and because the fandom is so big, there’s always a reason for them to think and feel that way. Taehyung stans are always going to see Taehyung antis and feel like Tae is getting the short end of the stick, you know? Whereas Jimin stans will always think Taehyung is the obvious favorite of both the company and the fandom. This is just one example, it’s a phenomenon that seems to perpetuate itself throughout the fandom over and over again.

Personally, I’ve seen a lot of people on Twitter specifically talking about voting for Tae for SDA and reporting the death threats. I haven’t been talking about these things on the blog for a couple of reasons. One is that I assume most people are aware of it already and it isn’t really what I use this space for, nor is it something I want to dwell on in this space.

Obviously the death threat issue is disgusting and I think it’s horrible when it happens to anyone. It honestly made me feel sick to see those messages and I mostly just hope that Taehyung himself didn’t see them, and that none of the members did, frankly.

But as for the fandom as a whole, I just feel like it’s too massive to generalize in any direction. Even the subsets of this fandom are so huge that I don’t like to make generalizations about them for the most part, especially since I know how frustrating it can be to have all Taekookers lumped together as though we share one mind and all believe the exact same ideas.

#ask

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bbbuckaroo · 11 days

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I’m new to this fandom since the buck bi storyline. And I didn’t realize how toxic this fandom is? Or did it just begin because of buck and tommy? I started watching beginning and can tell the chemistry between buck and Eddie but I really don’t see them as an end game? First of all Eddie is clearly straight and I feel like they got together they would break up for sure.

However, my issue is with Oliver and Ryan. I feel like they are playing into the Eddie more since they are on a new network and the buck storyline. It makes me said that Oliver hasn’t promoted Tommy on his social ( other than speaking about it in interviews) but he constantly posts about Eddie. Now with the fighting between the shippers. Saying Oliver and Ryan don’t like Lou in real life and saying Lou is a horrible person. If Oliver says he is grateful to be part of this story why not promote the man who helped him realize he is bi? It’s giving two face to me. However, I don’t want I’m not hating on them but it just gives me a bad taste in my mouth.

What are you feelings on the fighting between ships? And do you think Lou will be back next season?

It had never been toxic to this extent, I started in about season three. There has always been animosity and hate towards any of Buck or Eddie’s love interests (also extended to the actresses themselves) because they are “in the way” of Buddie happening. Buck and Eddie certainly do have chemistry which is what makes them such good friends, partners at work, and part of the 118 family. But aside from some playful comments there has never been any blatant signs of a romantic development between them. Again there are plenty of people who would tell you otherwise but I’m speaking to facts and exactly what we are seeing ON THE SCREEN. And yes, Eddie has thus far been portrayed as very straight, Buck has always had small indicators that he may be a bit more flexible than he realized and Oliver said that himself. I’ve been bi-Buck since day one.

I agree that it definitely seems like Oliver is indifferent to Buck and Tommy’s developing relationship but Oliver has never promoted any of his relationships. He did recently do a few podcasts where he mentioned Tommy and seemed very optimistic about their relationship but I think they got pushed to the back by all the continuing Buddie hysteria. I can try and dig them up. And then the gold we got today with Access Hollywood where they both proved that no, they do not hate each other and yes, Buck is supportive of the relationship. And as much as we and other actors may be aware Buddie is barely a speck on the horizon (if one at all) they honestly have to stay neutral. It’s show business and they don’t want to do anything to affect viewership. Even if it is negative attention. That would really be almost a conflict of interest for them. Fans could say Ravi and Karen were having an affair and they honestly couldn’t say anything otherwise. If anyone does, it’s Tim or any other higher ups.

I see Oliver promoting Eddie because Eddie ISN’T a love interest. He’s Buck’s best friend and such a pivotal part of his character and also a major character vs. supportive. So by him promoting it, and promoting it as a platonic relationship, he’s basically saying it’s not a romance. I hope that makes sense. Also Oliver’s been burned (no pun intended) in the past and it’s gone as far as Oliver deleting all his posts and deactivating his accounts. So he’s also protecting himself and the other actors who get dragged into it.

I’m not going to say I’m entirely neutral and unprejudiced but BuckTommy’s (BT’s) didn’t start this toxicity. We started celebrating and loving the CANON relationship and development of Buck’s character. It’s been received so well, despite the hate that most people see, and people are so excited about this for Buck. When we embraced it and were happy for Buck, the delulu’s lost their minds because here we have a canon Buck relationship that 1. Doesn’t involve Eddie and 2. Makes Buck seemingly the happiest he’s been thus far. Then every time we stayed in our lane posting about it, the hate came. Now it’s like we feel we have to push back because besides involving us, they’re involving the actors and show-runners who work their asses off for this show. So of course we’re going to go to bat for them because they’re the reason we’re here! I know that we need to not pay attention to it and feed the fire but honestly with some of the nasty stuff they’re saying, it’s hard not to defend ourselves. But again, that is my opinion as a BT shipper.

And yes, I definitely think Lou will be back and that’s not what I believe to be wishful thinking. It’s clear Tommy’s reappearance was a two episode experiment, the cast and Tim hinted heavily at that, but with the reception they brought him back and viewership has only gone up and Buck’s story, Tommy or not, has resonated with so many people. To give this to Buck, a hopeful and healthy relationship, and then take it away would only perpetuate Buck’s hamster wheel of love. This man was very misguided but has always loved love and being love. The man lives for his 118 family and adores children, it’s clear he wants a stable, healthy relationship and showing that on the show is such beautiful and full circle development. It brings hope that no matter how lost someone is, if they persevere and work hard, they can be found and be happy. I think a lot of people need to see that in their lives today. And I see that in Tommy and I think everyone else does, including Tim and the cast, who have all been so positive about it. Their opinions are what matters most and ours are mere talk aside from the positivity and encouragement we can bring from commenting on social media and watching the show.

It’s the school yard bully: if you pay attention to them they thrive off of it and only get crueler. But if you ignore them, if you don’t feed their insecurities, eventually they’ll go away and move on elsewhere. So that’s all we need to do, as hard as it may be. Welcome to the fandom, ENJOY yourself, ignore the bullshit, and thank you for reading my novel. Glory day 😳

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tokyokookmin · 2 years

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"why do you ship the boys? don’t you think it’s weird. it’s like people shipping you and your sibling like ew?!" eeeeewwww thinking two guys are in a relationship eeeew! seriously… the comparison is utterly ridiculous and borderline homophobic, BTS members may be as close as family, they’re still NOT and never will be SIBLINGS. They’re NOT blood related?? (Can’t believe we have to point that out again and again). Two members, whoever they are, could have made out and have sex with eo and there s nothing "ewwww" about it ffs. So it’s like people shipping you and your friend. Which may make YOU uncomfortable anon but that’s it (I personally would not care, my friends are great people, we’d make great couples if we were attracted to eo lmao)

"unless they have said they are in a relationship, this shouldn’t be a topic sentence because what if they aren’t." Well if they’re aren’t, they’re aren’t, that’s it, no big deal. There’s still a whole lot of shippers who are sane and respectful and just want their idols to be happy with whoever they are.

"who is to say you aren’t making them uncomfortable? taekook ignored each other because of aggressive shippers" 1. The members have joked about ships many times, as long as the boundaries are respected they don’t seem to mind and knowing how standard shipping is in kpop they’re well accustomed to it and have been for the beginning 2. Taekook never said they drifted apart because of the shippers, that’s your own conclusion (and I say this as someone who can’t stand taekookers, most of them having no boundaries whatsoever and spreading lies and hatred). The issues they had with their friendship, judging by what they said about it in ITS, seems to have to do with them growing up and having very different paths and interests and personalities. It’s not farfetched to think the intense shipping around them may have played a role and Taetae seemed done with it but they never said it had an impact on their relationship so you’re drawing conclusions on your own here (it could, but we don’t know)

Anyway, looks like you re the one being uncomfortable here anon, don’t put it on the members. And you can be. You don’t like shipping? That’s fine, it’s not for everybody, you have every right to, a lot of fans don’t like it (and not all of them are homophobic but sometimes it does seem like so). Just don’t use your own uneasiness as an excuse. When the members will clearly state they don’t like it, then that’s it, but for the moment, as long as ppl are being respectful, what’s the issue

(Sorry for the rant)

Hello, anon! sorry for the late reply, been feeling unwell for the past few days.

Getting to your ask, This was EXACTLY what I desired to say but I kept reserved about it because I didn't want to provoke people. After posting that ask, I was honestly super stunned seeing how infuriated you guys were! WHOA, the amount of rage in my inbox 😂

Anyways, all of these points are valid and I entirely agree with you anon. ❤ xx.

@mwitsmejk - read this, my sweetie!! Get a clearer vision of things, spread positivity and not hatred.

#jikook #jungkook #jimin x jungkook #bts army #km #jm #jkjm #jimin #kookminers #kookmin #bts #lolz

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supertunanana · 3 years

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I’ve debated writing this for a while, because who wants to read my inane thoughts on the matter? What are my opinions really worth in the grand scheme of things? I’m not so self important to think this will be of any value. But, I’m an extroverted thinker, so this might help my brain finally shut up, and that’s worth something to me.

The hypocrisy surrounding Jikook.

Are they a couple? Maybe. I legitimately don’t know. I don’t default into thinking they’re straight. I don’t default into thinking they’re gay. Every member is a blob, sexually, until they define themselves one way or another. Because honestly, I don’t care. That’s between them and their potential paramours. There’s nothing wrong with either option, heck there’s nothing wrong with both or none. Live a life, man... good luck!

And I have no problems with shipping, to the extent it is done in a sane way and fans do not impose their ships onto the actual people. What I mean is, if you think Tae and JK look good together and you want to read stories or draw art of them as a couple and you want to explore their dynamic, you do you. However, it crosses a line when fans get mad when real people or real situations do not adhere to their fantasy. When they contradict footage and quotes and the feelings of those involved because it doesn’t fit into their little shipping box, that’s when it’s a problem. Be realistic. Have distinct lines between fantasy and reality, between what you might like and what is actually happening.

It is this reason, that I think shipping generally innocuous and indicative of the shipper more than the celebrity, that I also don’t think the celebrities in question need to be defended against shipping. Because if it is distinctly fantasy, then unless they express an opinion on the matter, most celebrities don’t really seem to know about it or care. It’s harmless. That defense, those hackles raised, again say more about the fans than the celebrities. When Xiao Zhan’s (XZ) fans got pissed off that some fanfic writer was portraying him as trans, XZ never weighed in on it. It wasn’t until those fans, in DEFENSE of their idol reported the writer and those of their ilk to the censors in China and got AO3 blocked on Chinese internet, that’s when XZ stepped in. And not to thank his fans for defending him, but to apologize to all the innocent Chinese fanfic writers who lost their work and their sanctuary because a handful of his fans had gotten the site banned. Again, the problem here was fans imposing their own beliefs on the celebrity, in this case thinking he would be upset by this and thus needed to be defended. They ended up causing more harm than good.

So the crux of this, what’s been kicking about in my brain, was the need for the fandom to “defend” JK from “shippers” the day after “hickey gate” and why these things only ever seem to focus on Jikook moments.

First off, “hickey gate” stemmed from footage that was a full, editorial choice to be shared on the part of Hybe and BTS. It was behind the scenes, closed set, pandemic lockdown footage edited together and released as official content, not some concert fancam or paparazzo on the street catching a private moment. They chose to leave in both Jimin and Jungkook on TWO occasions addressing the bruise/bite/hickey on JK’s neck, with the source being attributed to Jimin both times. Thus, people discussing this after the fact is a natural biproduct of it being shared. Is it even “shipping” when we are given the footage and the explanation? Is it not just a strange fact? This isn’t someone superimposing a fantasy onto them. This is the boys flat out saying Jimin bit JK and left a mark on his neck. I get debate over whether it was a bite or a hickey might lend itself more to “shipping”, with the latter being more shippy, but seriously, just looking at it would make anyone to question whether the BRUISE was more a hickey than a bite mark. What it says about the nature of their relationship is a whole other animal, but the fact is, it happened. And people are going to have THOUGHTS and FEELINGS about this. And that’s obviously something Hybe/BTS were ok with to share it in the first place (seriously, we would have never known, we DIDN’T even have a whiff of this until they put the whole thing on the DVD, so they were obviously OK with this leading to speculation, because how can a member saying they BIT another on the neck not?). All the content we are given of the boys snuggling, biting, ear sucking, tenderly addressing each other, etc.. is mostly a choice. And that choice will lead to questions and debates, and they’re obviously ok with it. It’s not wrong for people to be like, “huh” when they do questionable things and choose to give us said content about the questionable things.

But, there always seems to be this backlash when it’s Jikook. We have to “defend” JK, a fully grown man, who brought up the bite himself on camera from people talking about the bite as he himself said it was given to him. No backlash to people saying Jimin claimed doing it to cover up JK’s secret girlfriend (uhhh, when homosexuality is a no-go in SK, that seems a weird choice, but sure, ok.... like just cut it from the footage and slap some make up on like they do during the concert, since none of us noticed it then, and move on if you want to cover it up). But that’s allowed supposition despite having NO EVIDENCE to support it. And what we are TOLD actually happened is not ok and “shipping”?!?

Worse, when days later some innocuous “TAE AND JK WERE STANDING NEXT TO EACH OTHER OMG! THEY’RE IN LOVE” trends, where is the “save JK from shipping” rhetoric? That is CLEARLY shipping. I’m not saying Jikook shippers don’t do this, too, they do. And I laugh and shake my head at every little thing being dissected and offered as “proof”, but there always seems to be this backlash when it’s Jikook. ESPECIALLY when it’s undeniably... different. Neck biting. Ear sucking. “with JK at 4 a.m.” when they found out Dynamite got number one. Golden Closet Tokyo. These things are facts. Again, they’re... weird facts that do lead me to raise an eyebrow a lot, but they are facts and they were shared by the members as facts. I don’t think it’s necessarily shipping to think weird facts are weird and may lead to conclusions that don’t adhere to the THEY ARE ALL INHERENTLY STRAIGHT manifesto so many fans seem to have (and I think “straight until proven otherwise” is a shitty perspective anyone could have in any walk of life and again speaks to inherent or unconscious heteronormative perceptions in society - hurray -_-).

But even the dumb shippy stuff that ALL other combos have, is always an ISSUE when done by Jikook. Their bond or interactions are downplayed by major accounts. They’re an outlier. Some shippers even try to make it out like they hate each other (whaaa? HOW?!?!). Any odd interaction that really is just odd is deemed “shipping” and cast off into the no-no void, where it’s WRONG if you side-eye it. And I know WHY. I know it’s because they ARE different and they do do stuff people just don’t want to look too closely at because it makes them uncomfortable, so it’s easier to just deem it all “other” and “crazy supposition” and get rid of it. But it’s frustrating when it’s legit and it’s stuff they’re choosing to show and give us. It’s frustrating to be told you’re not allowed to go “huh, weird” because now you’re just a crazy shipper.

And again, I’m NOT saying Jimin and JK are in a relationship, because again, IDK, but I’m also not saying they're NOT either. I’m going to keep side eyeing the fuck out of some of the stuff they do and just enjoy that they are 100% each other’s person in the interim. And if that makes me a crazy shipper, then I guess that’s what I am.

#jikook #thoughts

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thoughts-on-bangtan · 3 years

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From anon: I don’t know how someone can be as intelligent as you behind this blog and still ship Vmin and Namjin.... where j*k*ok is known for being the most realistic Jimin-ship and Namjin is known for being creepy for feminizing Jin to extreme extents. People that ship namjin give me chills honestly. Majority have this twisted fantasy of om*ga Jin x a*pha Joon which is so disgusting.

Thank you, I guess, for this backhanded complement (which I'm saying with the utmost amount of sarcasm, just so we're clear). Quick question though, if namjinists give you chills and you aren’t a vminnie, what are you doing on a blog that is mostly about both?

While I won't get into why I don't agree with your statement in regard to J*k*ok, and therefore by proxy about vmin, I do very much take offense against what you said about Namjin and namjinists. While yes, there are people who do what you said they do, there is an overwhelming majority of those who don't. Since there is no way for me to check every single account of a namjinist and ask them if they feminize Seokjin or see him as om*ga in their fanfics/fantasies, I can use the power of AO3 as place to get some data to check this argument, since a lot of this is reflected in what people write and how they characterize the members.

More below the cut since this could be a topic/discussion some might not want to read about or even see on their TL:

Since 2013 there are 153k fanfics for BTS across all available languages, out of which 7863 have the al*ha/b*ta/om*ga dynamics tag on them, meaning just about 5% of fics fall into that "genre", which is basically nothing. Because I was curious, I checked both designations for each member and created a table, the result being this:

Now what do we have here, 45% more results for O for Seokjin than A though that's barely anything when compared to the 70% of O for Jimin, meaning even if Seokjin is seen as O, it's much worse in Jimin's case. And while yes, a majority of those % is due to namjin fics, the majority in Jimin's case is due to J*k*ok ones, so really, who are the bad (feminizing) guys here? Even more so when you consider that there are 2.1k J*k*ok fics in this category (without otp:true) as opposed to 1.6k namjin ones. Also, before someone argues that vminnies are just as bad, there are only 631 fics with that tag for vmin and 1.4k for y*onm*n, which covers the three main Jimin ships.

Then, because I was still curious and I like numbers, I thought I could check the other two much debated tags for comparison purposes:

As it turns out, these results are not great either, though comparatively far worse when it comes to Jimin, though judging by how certain parts of the fandom (and especially shippers) treat and see him, and portray him as, I can't necessarily say I'm surprised.

Now, what does all of this tell us?

For one I think it showcases a big issue we have when it comes to mlm ships within those writing about Bangtan, but also in general, the fact that in large parts many write mlm not because they are gay themselves, or even queer, but because they enjoy their ship and base their way of writing them on stereotypes and by projecting heteronormative ideas and norms onto them, consciously or not is up for debate. There is a whole discussion to be had about when certain writers portray queer characters/real people respectfully and when it turns into blatant feminization and even fetishization, but I'm neither the right person nor am I equipped or informed enough to be the one to have it. There have been countless others who did a brilliant job of it so if this is a topic that interests you, I'm sure you'll be able to find resources and posts about it with ease.

Now, as someone who is queer myself and likes both vmin and namjin dearly, I think it's uncalled for of you to come into our asks and make such claims about namjinists, especially toward someone who never exhibited any such behavior themselves, as in me. I know a lot of namjinists, I watch the community and read their discussions as best as I can, and I enjoy reading a good fic from time to time. And while yes, there are problematic writers who do what you accuse them of, as well as shippers more generally speaking, such people can be found for every ship, their amount those vastly varies.

I don't ship vmin and namjin based on some kind of fantasy version I have made up in my head of them, nor do I read a/*/o myself since I find the whole genre repulsive, so I don't see how you thought this would be an effective argument for whatever you thought this ask would achieve. I base my ship related thoughts, opinions and analysis entirely on what the members show us, the personalities they have, the things they've said and done, and the music they have written. I don't subscribe to any weird conspiracy theories and I don't subscribe to the idea either that the "smaller" one in a ship plays whatever role as opposed to the "bigger" one, or even the idea that relationships have set roles because that's not true for straight couples so why should it be the case for queer ones?

Anon, you can dislike shippers who go too far, we all do, and while I agree that people who still "force" their weird ideals onto Seokjin while "forcing" stereotypes onto Namjoon simply because he's tall and buff are disgusting and wrong, I'm not one of those people. And neither are most of the people who send in asks or have sent me DMs to talk about namjin. There are other sns where these behaviors are exhibited to unimaginable extents by (mostly) women much too mature to be talking in such manners about young musicians half their age or more, perhaps you should send asks like this to them instead.

At the end of the day, how “real” a ship is has no correlation with how big it is or the way people fantasize, write and talk about them. The only deciding factor are the people that are actually involved in the ship itself, not its shippers and their beliefs. Sometimes it worth it to make up your own opinion instead of following the “popular” one without question, or letting toxic shippers taint your opinion of everyone that likes a certain ship.

#answered ask #answered ask by admin 1 #what is it about our account that seemingly attracts there kinds of asks lately #also why did these anons choose pride month and festa time for asks like this

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btsandvmin · 3 years

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why do u think fandom brozone vmin so much? it doesnt happen nearly as often w other ships

I have talked about this a great deal before, and for good reason. It does happen a lot, and it has always been like this. At least I can speak for the years I have been in the fandom as the first post I ever made properly was about this exact topic. (The “bromance” issue) It’s short and a bit outdated, and honestly we also have to admit that while a lot of people still keep insisting on Vmin not being shippable and being “brozoned or friendzoned” there are also a lot more people who both ship Vmin and even see actual real potential in them being more. (You can even tell by the increase in analysis here on tumblr.)

Personally regarding the “issue” of how Vmin are viewed I am no longer as annoyed with it as I used to be. I do think it’s mainly a problem when other shippers come and say it about Vmin, because that is frankly just hypocritical. I have also written Normalizing Vmin or “Vmin” and Shipping vs Believing that explains more about my views on the subject of friendzoning and shipping as a whole. (Personally I feel Vmin get more friendzoned than brozoned, but that’s just a minor detail.)

But your question was about why you think the fandom brozone/friendzone Vmin so much, so let’s get to that.

First of all I obviously think there are several reasons, but this is all based on my speculations after being in this fandom for so long and what I have seen. Every person could have their own very different reasons to why they think the way they do. I think all the reasons play a part, but might not be equally important and might also not apply to every single person, but rather affect the fandom as a whole in one way or another.

So let’s break it down to the things I think play the biggest role in why Vmin are seen as platonic, regardless of if they are or not, just simply compared to a lot of the other ships.

1. They have since the start used the label “friend” or “best friend” to describe each other. In particular the label “chingu” of course, which in actuality is used to described someone of the same age that you are close with.

2. The English translation and constant use of “friend” will when repeated constantly get stuck in people’s minds and affect how they view a dynamic. Just how “hyung” gets translated to brother, but a lot less well known and noted by the fandom. Basically the western fandom will likely get even more platonic feelings towards Vmin because of the word being translated to friends.

3. Compared to the other “chingus” in the group, Namjoon and Hobi, there is much more emphasis on Vmin as the same age and as being close and best friends. Namjoon himself made a comment on this. I also think the use of “friends” or more recently “soulmates” by editors is a reply to this, basically that the editors too use these words because they are used a lot by the members first. Hence it gets doubly reinforced. Every time we hear it or read it we get another reminder of Vmin being friends.

4. Their early dymanics were less soft. A lot of their interactions were teasing like Taehyung’s “Jiminie pabo” and fans saw it as two siblings or friends rather than as the “teasing your crush”. Basically people didn't read their behavior as romantic. When BTS first started Vmin already called each other best friends, and that stuck, even more so in combination with people basically not seeing any "spark" between them. I would call this preference in a lot of cases.

5. There were in the beginning already a lot of competition between ships. Jimin often focused in a lot on JK and basically flirted with him while he at the same time brushed off Tae when he did similar towards Jimin. Meanwhile Tae and JK had a very physical relationship as well and JK often seemed the most open and comfortable with Tae. I think both of Vmin kind of pushing themselves on and teasing JK was a dynamic many shippers like. Meanwhile you aslo had Yoonmin getting popular due to Yoongi seeming a bit soft on Jimin and Jimin being very open and loud with wanting attention from Yoongi.

6. Some people find Vmin's dynamics boring. To a lot of shippers “too” obvious closeness might be a little boring and get labeled as just being friends or bros. This was in particular evident in the early days of Vmin. It also matters for fan content, and we can see a lot of Vmin fiction use a bit more “soft” tropes and might not get as many readers as more conflict driven plot. For me I would also include Vmin’s bias towards each other as another point here, that people might see as too much if they are a couple and have to hide. Basically a lot of people don’t see friendship to romance as the most interesting, or the "obvious and equal dynamic" as interesting. BTS said Vmin were the closest or the “best duo” etc. but since all of them were close people picked based on preference for their ship. Of course this still applies to shippers now, they fall for the type of dynamic they like, but now they also have a easier time getting convinced by material from other shippers. Having analysis is another thing that can make a ship more appealing as well.

7. Speaking of, fan content getting created and spread will reinforce certain images. Reading BTS fanfiction or watching moment videos you will see a lot of Vmin being “the best friends”. Basically once the image is used a lot, it will get more spread and used even more. It will be a constant in many places and when talking to a lot of people. It will also of course pull people in to other ships that makes Vmin impossible. Not to mention the big ships will get bigger and spread more easily.

8. Now this might not be true for a lot of people. But I have come across a lot of fans who seem to think being a friend is something that makes romance less likely. For me I want my partner to be my best friend as well, but a lot of people do see these two things as mutually exclusive. Many see friend and lover as two very different things and that you have one best friend and one partner, not someone that are both. Basically just the view on friendships and labels and how that might lead to some feeling being romantically involved is something separate from a close friendship.

9. Other ships spreading the narrative even further. It’s easier to just call Vmin friends, honestly. It’s often hard to deny their closeness (not that you should have to just because you ship something else, doesn’t change reality). But Vmin being so close and being part of the three biggest ships in BTS of course their label as best friends will be spread and used even more by those shippers. And because of the size of those ships it eventually gets turned into not just those shippers views, but the whole fandom’s.

10. More recently I would also say fear is a reason why people push back and try to remind the fandom that Vmin are “just friends”. Because we have very bad examples of what happens when shipping goes too far, basically it makes many non shippers try to protect Vmin from the same faith. Not a bad thing (again, as long as you don’t ship something else and is a hypocrite), but it surely does further the narrative of Vmin being very platonic. (A bad group is of course included here, which are homophobic fans, but since they feel the same about all ships it’s just a sidenote.)

11. Lastly, and probably most influentual, is the fact that Vmin and BTS friendzone Vmin in many ways, constantly.

I won’t go into all the examples, but I think we all know a few moments even at the top of our heads by now.

I mean.... They called their song about being soulmates and wanting to be together for eternity "Friends". And maybe that's what they are, but they sure like to remind us.

So we have times when BTS or Vmin basically remind us and spells it out even more clearly that Vmin are FRIENDS. They use it very very often, and personally to me sometimes at very weird moments. Even so, the things most fans see will of course be what they say. Vmin are friends and that is it.

And at face value that is true. I just personally don’t see being best friends (and soulmates) as meaning they can’t be more as well. Especially since they wouldn’t even be able to say more than that. I mean, if Vmin are basically described as the closest in BTS, then why does that mean they have less odds of being real? Being friends doesn’t have to equal being only friends.

However, Vmin have in fact said things against being interested/denied the other, I don’t want to lie. I am sure some would see this as 100% truth and use it againt the possibility of Vmin being real. Like when Taehyung basically said he would rather date Hobi.

However, Jimin said he would definitely choose Taehyung to date, but that gets ignored by people who ship Jimin with others, so it’s really just about choosing what fits your narrative. All ships have contradicting moments or statments or answers where they answer two different things at two different times in general.

We also have how Jimin answered back to Taehyung about liking men by saying he isnt “like that” to Taehyung.

There are moments like this, and even though they might be small and forgotten by most I think they could in a sense still have registered in some fans who then basically managed to spreak the “vmin are just bros/friends” into the more common perception.

However we also have opposite moments when they try to appeal to each other, or like when Taehyung asks Jimin to be the girlfriend etc. and personally though I do take these things into account it’s a bit like when you see members say “men can’t do this or that” and it doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t be queer. To me even though there are things against most ships, there are still a lot that speaks for some, and that’s why I remain unsure.

Sometimes you might get more defensive or nervous if there is some truth in there as well. It’s all about interpretation, even though I don’t want to blatantly ignore what they say. But since they have said and done directly contradicting things (like how Jimin said he would choose to date Tae while also saying he doesn’t act like “that” to Tae, or how they have changed a lot of answers in general) I also don’t see it as something definitely against them being more. Not to mention time can change things as well.

In the end though this isn’t about what other things there might be that show Vmin might be more than friends or not, but simply reasons for the fandom’s view of them as platonic. (Personally I think they do a lot of things not normally seen as platonic, which is obviously the reason for me having this blog and writing anlysis on them.)

So, Vmin is friendzoned by the group, and by shippers of bigger ships, and even by themselves at times. Then everything else is reinforcement and inability to view them as anything more than friends.

There are some other things I think might play a part in it as well, but most comes down to personal preferences or what you get exposed to. Like who is the bias of the shipper and what things do they come across to make them a shipper, what kind of dynamics do they like etc. (It's more likely for someone who "falls" for JK to have JK in his ship, for example. Because they will focus on him and notice his interactions and then likely fall for a certain dynamic.)

History is a huge factor in general, and trying to change the perspective of the fandom might not be easy. But with a lot of new fans coming in and seeing with their own eyes how Vmin have behaved the last two years in particular, I think we can see a change.

Vmin are loved by the majority of this fandom, and that’s far better than them having people be anti them because of their ship being too big or too toxic. So in the end I do feel it’s a good things for them and for us that Vmin is being viewed as mostly platonic while they manage to slowly include more “normally not platonic things” into their platonic box. (I mean we are at a point where they can casually mention sleeping together and sing about being soulmates and hold hands in public).

Thank you for the ask and I hope you found this interesting. This is a topic I have a lot of opinions on and think is interesting myself, so I hope you enjoyed this post. No matter what we all know that one truth won’t change; 95z is love!

#vmin #vmin analysis #vmin friendzoned #vmin friends #vmin bromance #btsandvmin ask #btsandvmin answer #btsandvmin

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nightswithkookmin · 3 years

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I am a hard Taekook shipper but recently Jikook have been melting my heart by being so cute and cudly and loving. I understand and i am sorry for so mhch hate from Taekookers but trust me Taekookers are a bit shaken right now. I cannot disclose my name here but i would like to say if Jikook is real or they decide to come out which i higly doubt then i am 100% in support and also ur page helped me open my eyes and see a diff sude of shipping which is needed alot more. I am Loving Love ryt now.

C'est la vie!

So sorry for the late response love. You've always been on my mind.

I get not every Taekooker is wild and rabid just as not every Joker is sane and fake woke. Lol.

I mean I'm still holding on to my grudge against your people for storming my business pages and leaving shit reviews on my books- and laughing about it? What was that? Damn. Had to change my author name and everything and I've since been publishing under an alias- let me tell you, it's no fun at all.

In retrospect, I shouldn't have called y'all's ship dead- but honestly it dead, it dried up like a drop of sweat on a dessert. What can I say? People just don't want the truth, lol- had these angry thirteen year olds and fake woke Jokers coming for my ass and my business ass on the flamingo app. Chilee. Your people don't want to be civil. Sigh.

Some people just have no sense of personal responsibility and when they get called out for it they slap you with the whole, 'no one asked you to put yourself and your business out there' - this creepy behavior and mental adroitness is not far from rapists blaming girls for wearing short shorts and mini skirts or thieves blaming people for not putting up a fence and shit to protect their property. It's fucked up.

And don't get me started on what they do to Jimin or JK... or even Tae- not to make you feel bad or anything. It's just my people suck, your people suck, we all suck square- don't apologize for it unless you plan on doing something to change it?

As for Taekook, yea I don't think there is anything wrong with shipping them. They have a beautiful bond, they are both visuals and both funny as hell. If you won't ship them I will. Lol.

Just know the reason you are shipping them? If you are shipping them because you genuinely believe they are a couple too then you need to stop shipping them and start supporting them?

And once you start supporting them then I think you'd sooner realize there isn't anything there to support in the first place. Lol.

I support Jikook because I believe with my full chest they are real and are closeted- emphasis on closeted. And for the record, they are the only queer couples in BTS.

Tae lost his queer card when he accidentally outed Jimin on that radio show. 'I think he likes men' yea, straight up het behavior. Lack of homo sensitivity.

Did you see JK's reaction when JM was asked to spill tea on their pervy behaviors behind cams? My butt quivered. Chilee, I thought he was gone out JK too. Damn.

I think the word real and closeted have come loose and cheap on these streets these days. I don't think most of these shippers when they throw it around fully understand the term or realise what it means and what it takes. If they did, they wouldn't randomly be labeling every ship as 'real' within the fandom.

If you believe Taekook is real and that they are equally hiding their sexuality as well as their relationship within the group, then you should understand how severe and traumatizing this fact is and would be for them as gay men?

The thing is, they are not just hiding parts of themselves and their identity for the sake of their careers or military or whatever if they are real, they are lying to millions, millions of people at a time about who they really are by keeping their identity a secret. Secrets are lies honey, however way we want to see it.

If they are real then they are concealing their true identity away from not just their families and friends- if they haven't come out to them, but acquaintances from work, businesses who wouldn't work with them otherwise, brands, sponsors, Heads of states, their fans....

It's one thing for a heterosexual to keep their heterosexual relationship a secret, it's another for a queer person to keep their queerness and or queer relationship a secret.

A lie as heavy as this is bound to take a toll on them, no matter how good they are at hiding it. A secret gets heavy before it gets easy. Not to sell you on anything but do you see any such secret taking a toll on Taekook? Because I see it taking a toll on Jikook.

Do you believe Taekook are closeted? Because I believe Jikook are.

Being closeted means they have to carry the guilt of knowing that each time they pander to heteronormative roles in variety shows or interviews, or imply by omissions that they are straight, or make generalizing statements about their sexuality to avoid addressing their sexuality directly or give it away, that they are lying to people and spewing half truths- seven years in a roll.

Being closeted is not a joke. It's heavy. I think you need to grasp this before you claim it for anyone.

People like to throw the 'closeted' phrase around willy nilly but fail to comprehend its weight and complexity and consequences especially for people that they believe are actually queer.

It's not easy lying to people about who you are. Unless you are a pathological liar and a psychopath, it's like drowning each day you wake up. You die a little each time. Your sexuality is a huge part of your identity and when you deny it for so long by lying and suppressing it, it's like shutting out a peice of yourself and silencing your own voice. The more you push it aside the louder it screams and the harder it fights to come out.

It's a state of constant internal struggle. You wake up everyday contemplating whether to risk the perfect life you've spent years building just so you can turn off the guilt that comes with keeping a secret of this nature.

And each time you get better at omitting or generalizing and evading questions that hint at your truth, the more you hate yourself and the more guilt you feel. This guilt can become a driving force that pushes you to make risky moves and take impulsive actions such as 'borderline outing your relationship'- does that sound like Taekook to you?

If you are not driven by the love you feel for your partner, you are driven by the guilt and neither is a great place to be if you are queer.

You lie everyday, you get caught up in the lies and soon you start believing in the web of lies you've woven around yourself such that you don't even recognize who you are or why you are, anymore. As such, you are constantly searching for yourself, to reconcile the bits you've hidden away and perhaps forgotten, and you keep exploring your identity because you are unsettled- honey, that sounds more like Jikook than Taekook to me but c'est la vie.

Being closeted is not about moments that get cut by editors, or less interactions, or being seperated or seated further apart from eachother. These are just ship street parlance. Being closeted is an attitudinal, internal attribute rather than external manipulations or influences- it's a science. Lol

Coming out may be risky for any of these boys if they are real, but I promise you hiding is much harder for them.

And so When I look at Taekook, and I see how beautiful they are yet I don't in God's honest truth see them 'dealing' with any or all of these struggles Jikook deal with or have dealt with at one point, in my opinion- forget the homophobia, the wanting to come out, the low key microaggressions they deal with even within the group- 'the Jk never stops crying,' 'the real men don't do this and that talk' talk, the toxic masculinity and internalized homophobia traits JK and Jimin used to exhibit in their early days talking about 'real men don't twerk,' 'real men don't wear rings on their pinky'- all the times Jimin have had to defend his masculinity or even femininity, or stand up for Kook's within the group. 'Men, men, men. What is men?'

Jikook are the only two within the group that in my opinion have struggled most with their identity, with embracing aspects of themselves; you hear them complain about 'living a lie' 'tired of hiding, lying' and all these are themes consistent with closet behavior that they've both explored in one way or the other and even as of 2020 they are still dealing with or 'exploring' their identities perhaps as a means to reconcile their true selves? I'm really struggling with this post because I don't wanna get salesy on your ass. Lol.

Don't get me wrong, Tae struggles and deals with issues too- mostly with loneliness, lowkey depression in my opinion, lowkey bullying- sometimes, lol and he often expresses a desire to find someone and be happy and yet 'his supporters' don't recognize that...

You can wait till Jikook come out officially as queer, if they ever chose to, to support them- Or you can choose to support them and love them now because that's what they need in order to officially come out as and when they choose to? Ok I'm being salesy. Lmho. I'll stop. Don't mind me. But think about it.

Ship whatever ship you want but support Jikook. It's all I'm asking. And by support, I mean don't exhibit any anti homosexual attitude towards them- deadass. You and I gone fight, square up toe to toe, if you do. Lol.

People don't need to be afraid of Jikook. They just need to treat them as human beings and not reduce them to a mere ship. They are a ship too yes, but they are more than that if you ask me.

You sound nice. I love you. I'm glad you enjoy my posts. Merry Christmas and cheers to our ships.

Keep supporting Jikook. Jikook is real.

Signed,

GOLDY

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