#shippergate

[mimibwi]

My thoughts on shipping

I have previously been silently exploring BTS ships and decided to put some of my thoughts on “paper”.

Now, I have been aware of the toxicities of certain BTS shipper fandoms and how messy shipping has been for groups that pre-date BTS such as One direction and Fifth Harmony. I have personally never been much of a shipper before BTS and naturally discovering my ship’s bond and starting to appreciate it. It always baffles me how shipping seems to mean different things to different people or groups of shippers. This is heard often but shipping should be something done for fun and I won’t say I hate that logic or that I 100% agree with it because I personally think its okay if you have a slight inkling your favorite pair may be dating/more than what they say they are and you try looking at it a bit more seriously. I think it’s human nature to be inquisitive and curious. However, like everything, there needs to be a limit and I think that’s a huge problem not only in shipping culture but stan culture in general. There’s been so many times that I have seen jokes or otherwise harmless discourses become a bigger deal than they were ever meant to be.

To me shipping is and always would be about observation, (rational) speculation and possibilities. I am never going to fight with anyone to prove my ship is real in a romantic way because to be frank I genuinely do not know. None of us know and that’s okay. I like discussing the possibility of ships (mainly my ship) being real (this always irks me to say cause every ship is real but anyway) and sometimes even theorize things based on that assumption. This is getting a bit messy because I have so much I want to say but I have no structure to it, bare with me.

Basically, what I am trying to say is, I think shipping is okay within limits. Once again, its all about observations and all of us are only human and can’t help but pick up on things from time to time and who knows maybe your hunch might actually mean something. So I never see any shippers or ship dynamic as a competition. I even seek out analysis, theories and videos of other ships because I love to see the different dynamics and how differently we all think and how things can look solely based on one’s perspective. Despite how frustrating it gets, I find shipping culture in itself very interesting. The way the same things can be interpreted in so many ways, seeing how differently people think from me and in many cases how other’s thoughts challenge my perspective and opinions.

The type of shipping I don’t enjoy is the type that:

makes it a competition of who is the closest or which bond is the best.

is already CONVINCED and 100% without a doubt BELIEVES that the ship they enjoy is the “real” one because like I said before none of us know for sure. It gets even worse because this subset of people speak about their theories/analysis/opinions as if its a fact known by many and some of us just need to get with the program.

degrade other members for ships. this is an instant red flag for me and if I’m being honest, many shippers aren’t as forward with the hate they have toward the member that “threatens” their ship. I have seen many shippers say the vilest things or agree with the rudest asks about some of the boys but at the end say “but I love him though” like…do you? do you really?—

push theories and delusions into the boy’s spaces to get confirmation…side eye. This is one of the worst things to me honestly. Shipping is meant to be enjoyed within fandom spaces and no matter how real you think your ship is, there is absolutely no reason to try to bring it to the boy’s attention that you apparently know what they are. Please do not make weird, inappropriate or suggestive comments about ships on their welives, do not DM them about it, do not DM or bug their family, friends and colleagues about it. PLEASE JUST BE NORMAL!!! If a ship is in fact real, they have their reasons for not being public about it and you as a fan of the group and especially as someone who enjoys the pair should be respectful of that. Sure it’s fine to talk about the duos on weverse or tag the boys in cute edits because I’m sure they like that their friendships are appreciated but please be cautious when pushing it to them through a romantic lens.

I think this takes away a lot of the fun of shipping and these subsets of shippers along with others I may have missed out here are the reason that the fandom tries to push out shippers for the most part. I always joke about many non toxic shippers getting thrown into it when all some of us really do is cry and gush about our ship TT its such a shame. But its understandable since the toxic shippers make up a large, VERY LOUD subset of the fandom and with the track record of shipping among groups, I frankly wish a lot of you weren’t around either.

((a lot more below the cut))

My Approach

To me, showing love and appreciation for the very REAL bond that we see is always going to be essential and the basis of everything I do as a shipper. And I am not talking about any theories or analysis of what we’re shown but taking in and appreciating what the boys say and the many ways they show love to each other.

No matter who you ship this is a very easy task to accomplish because the tannies are so loving and every single pair or trio has a special bond that is intriguing to explore. I have learnt so much in the few years I’ve been an ARMY, not only from my ship but from almost every ship and just the tannies on a whole. They’ve taught me a lot about friendship and help me understand the type of relationships I should aim to have and the type of person I want to be for others. These lessons and small appreciations are what I’ve anchored myself to so that I don’t stray too much from this original plot and even if I do, it’s very easy to find my way back.

That being said, I have acknowledged that I can be very delusional. I refuse to believe any of my theories or the theories that any shipper presents to me as 100% fact, no matter how convincing they might sound. I have accepted that everything I theorize about could be 1000% wrong and very very far from what is true and I’m fine with that thought. It’s what allows me to think up far fetch little theories or blip off into these delusional mind bubbles where my ship is real. It’s also why I can get out of my head and acknowledge the fact that it’s likely that no ship in BTS are romantic [ref to My unpopular(?) shipping opinions and this ask]. All of it is because I leave room for deniability.

I’ve expressed this here before but it is very much baffling to me how so many shippers believe with 100% certainty that the pair they like are actually dating and are willing to go to war over it. Y’all are way better than me because I, personally, refuse to look like a fool on the world wide web. Don’t get me wrong, I would definitely defend the tannies from the “not friends anymore” or “fanservice” allegations but I am not going out of my way to fight with delusional people about 2 Korean men (who I don’t know personally😭) being sexually or romantically involved. Y’all can keep that!

Why I don’t believe the believers

Okay now I’ll try to move on and talk about why some shipper discourses or theories don’t hold up to me and why its quite insane and sort of foolish to believe a ship exists in a romantic light 100% based solely on them. The short answer of this is CONTEXT.

Forming opinions and arguments (I am not saying shipping should be an argument but since many shippers treat it like one, I’m addressing it as such for now) about a topic always requires a massive amount of context and a foundation of already factual information to be built from to sound even remotely plausible and valid. That’s why I mentioned before that a lot of this shipping business is speculation and opinions and frankly some of the speculation/opinions I see from shippers just don’t make sense to me. This is all because with BTS and any real person whose life we only see a fraction of, we lack a lot of context and for that reason building a solid argument from a 5 second clip of their life is difficult because we as outsiders are the ones who fill in the blanks. That’s why there usually isn’t any solid or shared opinion on what certain things said or done by the guys mean because we all have different experiences and biases that reflect in the way we see and interpret people’s actions.

Okay, I am going to go into a bit more detail about what I mean and what type of context I am referring to when I say this: (this is where it may get even messier, stay with me)

1// Situational context- This is more for the shippers that breakdown specific moments and (over)analyze them. Personally, I am a big picture person so whilst there may be particular moments that I see as a moment for or against a particular ship being more than friends, most times one clip or period of time doesn’t affect the way I view a ship. I think its drastic to constantly be changing your opinions based on every clip you see or changing it because a ship hasn’t publicly interacted in a while. Despite all of this, there are many things I keep in the back of my mind and maybe even form fun, (tbh) far-fetched theories on but for the most part it doesn’t change much for me. The reason why is because from moment to moment, clip to clip there is so much context that we don’t have about what’s happening in that one moment. Like did x have a bad morning? did he just receive bad/good news? is he looking forward to or dreading what he needs to do after this? is x going through something personally right now? did x and y have a falling out/misunderstanding? is x looking at y or is he just zoned out?

Okay this is going overboard and some of these may sound quite ridiculous but these are some of the millions of things that give context to a situation and for that reason they’re all things that need to be taken into consideration when analyzing the boys. I won’t even lie, I was thinking about Taehyung and Jungkook (to a lesser extent) for these cause if I see someone calling Tae rude or saying Jungkook is jealous one more time I might lose it. I am not saying any of the above ever happened cause once again I don’t know but all I am saying is stating any opinion of yours of a vague moment as fact without even exploring one of the above or any other possible factors is never going to let me take you seriously. I am also not saying every shipper who talks about a moment needs to be able to tell me what x had for breakfast that morning but if you express your observation/opinion as the truth I expect you to be able to give me CONTEXT. It feels like I am going in circles, I told you it was getting messy.

There are moments that hold up quite well on their own and have sufficient context. In other words, some things don’t require much explanation to be seen as truth. I guess what I am trying to say is the amount of factual information you have should remain proportionate to the assumptions and opinions you form. Too many times people use tiny moments to come to huge conclusions and connect dots that make no sense being connected. And I think its fun to be a bit far-fetch and delusional but it becomes a huge issue when nonsensical theories are posted on the internet and pushed to other people who don’t understand how irrational those theories are. Hence, I often believe in freedom of thought more so than freedom of speech; not everything you think needs to be said, you can keep things to yourself or at the very least only share it with one person or two that you trust to understand your intent.

2// Cultural context- I will try not to stick to this for too long because I am not Korean, so I can add very little cultural context to any ship moment minus those I have been told about before. There are some things that the boys do or say that would probably have a different meaning to me vs someone who is aware of Korean culture. There are many times, none that I can pinpoint at this time, that I see a comment or post explaining a clip/moment with cultural context, which changed my view on that particular moment. Like I said, I am threading lightly here cause there is not much I can add to this conversation. I am adding this here to remind you that the moment that is a big deal to you may just be normal for Koreans shrugs. This one is even more difficult than the first because cultural context isn’t something you can just make assumptions about, its something you need to be exposed to to understand. A mere Google search may not even cut it to fully understand as an outsider.

Things like honorifics and politeness levels of speech or even specific translations need to be taken with a grain of salt. The bromance and skinship aspect of K-pop/Korean culture is also a huge part of shipping that may be new to people from different cultures. In many countries in the West, skinship between men isn’t something very normalized or in many cases even socially acceptable so the amount that BTS show physical affection to each other might be startling to many international fans when it’s something that’s more socially acceptable in Korea and normalized amongst their team.

“Holding hands, linking arms, and hugging amongst friends are acceptable ways to show closeness and comfort. So, don’t assume that every two persons holding hands in public are romantically involved! Conversely, public displays of affection by romantic couples are more toned down compared to in societies like, say, the US”. 4 Distinctly Korean Habits To Know Before Going To Korea (sejong.com.sg)

None of this is to say that certain types of skinship can’t mean more to any two members or to say we can’t find the interactions cute or endearing. It once again boils down to the confidence shippers have when using these moments as proof of their ship being the real deal.

3// Differing personalities, beliefs and relationship dynamics- All of these points bleed into each other and are interconnected in some way but I think this one is basically the backbone of all of the others. Despite having situational or even cultural context, its still difficult to draw any clear conclusions because EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT and any analysis or opinion will need to treat them as such—different people with different values, morals, beliefs, likes, priorities, dislikes, experiences and the lists goes on.

No matter how well the boys get on, they have continuously expressed how different all of them are as people. And because of that, no two ship can or should ever be viewed in the same lens. I think this “mistake” is something I see a lot in shipping: X and Y did this and X and Z didn’t hence XY>XZ, I honestly don’t think its that simple. In order to fully grasp a ship and its possibility of being real, you need to have a good idea of who the people you’re shipping are and what their likes, dislikes, values, priorities etc are.

Now this, like all these other points require a lot of assumptions to be made. Firstly, it assumes you interpret everything they say and do the way they meant it to come across, it assumes that their BTS persona is a good reflection of who they are as people OR that you have a good idea who they might be as people. I don’t know how to explain this one cause there are members that we as fans know as being a bit different on vs off camera and some of those differences are known to an extent but once again we’re dealing with a lot of assumptions so its tricky. Anyway, many shipper theories assume that we know how they’d react in various circumstances.

There are a few reasons I am bringing this up and I’ll mention it here to better explain myself. Like I said, I have been searching around at ship content just cause the more you fuck around the more you find out and I have been seeing people’s takes on shipping and forming opinions on them. At some point, I started feeling hypocritical cause of how my opinion may be different for particular ships and I concluded that this point was one of the reasons why. Let me explain-

I saw some people giving % probability scores for certain ships being romantic and the thought came into my head that Yoongi ships, I think they were specifically talking about yoonmin or sope, are not probable to me if we’re seriously thinking romantically. Even as someone who thinks Yoongi may be into men/women/both/none (girl honestly idk). The reason why i think this way is looking at Yoongi and what (I assume) his priorities and goals are in life. I mention in a previous post that I question the member’s willingness to take the risk that would come with being in a relationship with a bandmate and how I think that many of them don’t come across to me as being willing to. Yoongi is the epitome of that opinion for me. I mention this in the next point but dating someone within the same group as you will definitely be a big deal, it will be a PR/HR emergency if anything goes wrong and I don’t see Yoongi as the type of person to want to play around that and sacrifice his work for love whether he felt emotions or even trained himself to the point that feelings don’t develop in the first place. [I’ve said that I never want to date someone in the same field as me and after that, i haven’t found any of my colleagues attractive or as a romantic interest, even when I tried]

I think another example that works really well for this is Jimin and the way a lot of shipper’s interpret him compared to how I do. I think any ARMY or any one who keeps up with BTS for even 5 minutes, can see that Jimin is a very private person. Of all the members, he comes across to me as someone who is very cautious and particular(?) about the way he’s perceived. He’s very careful with his words and his actions. You can watch any video he’s in and see how much he thinks before he says something to the members (especially when it’s of a serious nature) or to ARMYs. A very easy example of this is how concerned he was in the FESTA 2022 video about how we may take what they said and almost pleading for the audience to just take them by their word (something that literally almost every person who watched that video DID NOT do but we move smh…). All of this to say, I can’t subscribe to theories that believe that Jimin is pointing out things between him and his secret partner or behaving risky with them in front of cameras and giggling about it. I can get into this more but I’ll digress.

I am not sure how these examples will come across but these are just some random examples I can think of where I think varying personalities might affect the way I see a ship. This is not me claiming any particular ship is over another or saying that any of these above points are true because my opinions are based on my specific perception of the different members and I am not claiming I know them best.

All in all, there is only so much (little) that we know of them, its difficult to know for certain what any of them would be like in a romantic relationship. However, it seems like many shippers tend to remove the bits of individuality we do see of each member whenever they look into ships which further makes things even more unrealistic and delusional sounding to me.

To add to this, many times shippers interpret things based on their idea of a relationship without really putting themselves in the member’s place. This is totally understandable considering what I mentioned before about us being the ones that fill in the blanks but it’s one of the reasons why we can’t take our theories 100% seriously all the time. At the end of the day, every single relationship is different and something that might be okay for the members in a relationship may not be okay with you or the way the members choose to deal with their relationship may not be how you think it should or would be dealt with. So once again, you can’t take your interpretation of things too seriously. If a ship is real, we aren’t and would never be privy to their private conversations regarding what is okay for them in THEIR relationship. We don’t know what their limits are or how they would choose to maneuver through their relationship on camera so our view of things will always be one-sided.

4// Knowing the gravity of the situation if any ship is real- This one is basically situational context but on a wider scope and might be the most serious of all of these, despite me putting it last on the list. I think a lot of people who ship members romantically do not even consider how serious a situation like that would be. For the most part, I don’t think this is a problem if we’re just having fun but I think people who seriously analyze things the boys do need to take it into consideration. We all are aware at least to some extent of the state of LGBTQ+ in South Korea. Korea is still a very conservative country and though members of the LGBTQ+ community are actively seeking change, things are not as progressive as one would hope.

Taking that into consideration, any two members of BTS— the biggest K-pop group in the world and one of South Korea’s representative brands— being aware that they have more than platonic feelings for each other would be a huge deal. There’s a lot to consider regarding the way the other member’s would approach it, the way the company would approach it and the way the two members themselves would want to deal with it: whether or not they decide to pursue it and if they do, how they go about doing that.

Any two members dating would serve a huge risk for not only those two members but the group as a whole and the other members individually. Aside from the risks of any of the members being queer, the fact that we as shippers aren’t opposed to the idea of two members dating and the fact that many ARMYs would also be open to it if it ever turned out to be the case DOES NOT take away from the fact that such a relationship may be seen as highly unprofessional and inappropriate. We know all the boys are friends who have grown up closely alongside each other and feelings developing is something that is possible but at the end of the day, they are coworkers working together as BTS and many people may not be able to look past that.

I think many shippers look at ships in a very isolated way. They remove the very real world that we live in and all the problems that would come along with a ship being real and opt to live in a world where their ship is real and everything around them is always sunshine and rainbows. And I get it, that’s way more fun but it is not realistic. I think its fine to have this outlook if you are shipping just for fun but that is a lot of the times not the case. Many of these shippers on YouTube, tumblr or X that seriously analyze these relationships tend to feed a very unrealistic, clouded world view to others that may also be very naïve thinking. This is why a lot of theories grow to become these huge nonsensical conspiracies that any rational person can deduce makes absolutely no sense in the real world. Let’s address some specifics:

Addressing some unrealistic shipperverse theories

Any “real” ship in BTS are not being careless with their relationship in front of cameras or when doing other work. All your theories about them kissing on/around cameras or going into changing rooms together during award shows and coming back dishevel will never hold up to me.

If a ship is involved romantically and the company is aware of it, there’s most likely only a small subset of people that would actually know. My guess of who would know is: some higher ups in the company, the members, a select few managers and maybe bodyguards, possibly trusted and long time members of the BTS team i.e. PDogg, Son Sungdeuk, Slow rabbit etc. and perhaps a trusted PR team to advice them on how to deal with things. Even this list feels a bit too extensive. Anyway I am making this point because I don’t get why shippers think that random hairstylists or camera directors or editors would be privy to such sensitive information. And this stands for any relationship really, it’s unlikely that ALL of their staff are even aware if any of the boys are in more “traditional” (heterosexual) relationships so why do some of you act like it’ll be an open secret if any of them are queer.

Theories about love triangles or stories saying a member left a member for another member are so crazy out of touch?? Any one pair realizing their feelings for each other and choosing to pursue it despite the risk it poses to them and to the team is unquestionably a huge deal and would need to be dealt with an immense degree of care. So its very hard to believe that the members are haphazardly messing around with each other, cheating, breaking up and just overall being messy about the whole thing.

I genuinely don’t get why you people think any pair in the group are being blatant and basically trying to out themselves to the public at this point in their career. It’s not far fetched to think that they would have or want some way to express themselves but I doubt it’s as blatant as shippers suggest. Honestly, if a couple does exist amongst the tannies I am not even confident it’s something the public may ever be made aware of…

Conclusion

All in all, I think shipping is something that can be really fun but needs to be done with a huge amount of care and respect. Making assumptions about the boys and being dead set on one particular possibility being the end game can be detrimental, not only to the boys but to you as well. Many shippers are very confident and secure about their ship being real romantically and will stop at nothing to prove their point. This is a very ridiculous approach because I would bet that a secret couple don’t want or need you to prove their realness, they also don’t need you to spread their message to the world and convert people to your side. It really should not be that serious. Shipping should be something that simmers instead of boiling over. Just enjoy what you enjoy without spreading hate and without seeking real life confirmation through the members or dispatch or their family.

With the tannies getting older, it’s important for all of us to have somewhat of an understanding that what we have imagined or want their life to be may just not be what is true. I would hate (though I have already seen it being in the future of some ships😞) to see the larry-fication of any of these ships where 10-15 years in the future, shippers are still making random connections even if the members are known to be married to other people and have 5 kids. With there being 21 unique pairings within the group, even if it turns out that one of them is “real” doesn’t that mean that the possibility of most of us being wrong is greater than us being right. And that is, if we ever find out…

This was always meant to be the first post on my blog but because of the shipper climate around the time I started writing it, I held back on posting it how I initially intended to. I decided to give it a bit of a revamp and edit it to fit with what I want my little blog here to be. I’ve been writing this for almost a year now and have enjoyed putting these thoughts together in a somewhat concise and comprehensible way. Even if you don’t agree with everything I said here, I hope the main point comes across i.e. no shipper knows better than the other, we’re all going based off our own perspective and rational and so we shouldn’t be 100% certain and we shouldn’t be fighting over or confidently pushing ideas that we are probably wrong about. I really don’t care who ships who (ship and let ship) but I certainly think shippers need to be more careful about the things they say and do in the name of ships.

Thank you for reading!💜

~~🐝

links used in the post:

Harry Styles & Louis Tomlinson 'Ships' Into a Delusional Twitter Trend (ccn.com)

Lauren Jauregui Says Those Camila Cabello Relationship Rumors Were ‘So Traumatizing’ | Glamour

https://www.sejong.com.sg/4-distinctly-korean-habits-to-know-before-going-to-korea/

Interesting reads:

Queer Identity in Korea | CIEE

Ask a Korean!: I Love You, Man

It’s all in the Touch – Skinship. (스킨십) | Elwood 5566

LGBTQ Koreans Eager for Anti-Discrimination Bill | TIME

Narrow but Significant Win for LGBT Rights in South Korea (voanews.com)

#bts #bts ships #yoonjin #namkook #taekook #taegi #sope #jikook #namgi #vmin #yoonkook #jihope #minimoni #vhope #2seok #namjin #taejin #jinmin #yoonmin #namseok #hopekook #jinkook #taejoon #no ship left behind #shippergate #this post is my baby #pls treat her warmly

[mimibwi]

BTS and fanservice

This is a big topic and issue among shippers, so I'll give my opinions on the matter (if anyone cares to read).

BTS members definitely do fan service. There shouldn't be much debate around that but I want to put it out there in the event that someone didn't already know that. All K-pop groups do fan service to some degree and it's fine, in my opinion. It makes things interesting and gets the fans screaming, so who’s complaining?

The conversation about fanservice gets out of control when it comes to shipping. Much of it comes down to what the fans think fan service is. I don't see fan service as completely fake and drawn up by the company's execs. Don't get me wrong, I don’t think the company is completely uninvolved but the theories you present are way too over the top. They come across more like conspiracy theories rather than opinions I can even consider a possibility.

At most, fan service contains acts that build off existing dynamics and sometimes exaggerate them to a certain degree. So while I don't think some of the actions are spur-of-the-moment things (it's evident they talk about/plan some of the moments beforehand) I still don’t think most fan service moments are devoid of any genuine emotions. It’s hard for me to talk about this cause; honestly, I don’t care about the whole calling out fanservice thing. I enjoy all the members’ interactions. Maybe some floor me more than others but I can’t sit here and be mad about two friends interacting.

((A lot more below the cut))

^^All these moments are fanservice in some way or another and they are all cute to me. I don’t get why yall make a big deal out of it so much. Just enjoy it, and smile a little!! Sometimes I wonder how toxic shippers and solos feel when they watch BTS content. You all must be angry as hell when these men (who have known each other for 10+ years, might I add) interact and look happy doing it.

Let me make my points as clear as I can-

some on-stage moments are staged to some degree. I may be wrong but I think I’ve seen a video of Tae saying he wanted to do a moment with Jimin on stage but Jimin was too awkward (lol) so he did it with JK instead. Maybe I hallucinated that cause it's in my memory but I couldn’t tell you where I heard that from. Either way, I am actually convinced this happens often. That or they do something once, see the audience’s reaction, then keep doing it for the other performances.

Fanservice isn’t completely disingenuous. I don’t look at it as a black-and-white conversation. Two members hugging for fans to scream on stage doesn’t take away from their bond. It doesn’t make their entire relationship a fraud. So to me, it’s less of “x ship IS fanservice” and more like “this moment from x ship seems to be fanservice” or “x ship does fanservice sometimes”. I can’t argue with the last two statements for the most part (well I lied, I’m literally countering them with this post in a way) but the first statement makes my skin crawl. It's so dismissive and disrespectful to the boys. — Thinking about it more, I can argue with all the statements even more than I am doing right now because there are moments that are looked into way to deeply. You guys will say “this moment is fanservice” and it’s two members sitting next to each other or talking or looking at each other or *insert any normal interaction that occurs between people who know each other and shouldn’t be seen as a big deal at all*.

*This is me looking for the service (that was so earth-shatteringly obvious and bad that it needed to be called out as such) sometimes.

Please just let people enjoy what they enjoy; it’s not that serious. I know shippers do all of this to fire back at other shippers so it’s just an endless cycle of hate and bitterness but I don’t care tbh you all need to stop it, yall take everything way too far.

Not every on-stage or on-camera moment is fanservice. It's hard for us to distinguish because we never fully know the boy’s intentions at any particular time. This is why I despise this ‘all or nothing,’ ‘black and white’ mindset many shippers have because it can cause you to 1) start digging into moments that aren’t that serious or 2) dismiss real, genuine friendship when it's right in front of you. It’s also frustrating because what one person may think is fs may come across as a genuine moment to someone else then everyone goes to war because of it. The fact of the matter is that none of us know for sure, so we shouldn’t spend time arguing about things when every single one of us could be wrong.

The above points are mainly in reference to on-stage moments. It gets even messier when we discuss the pre-recorded, edited content. This is where you guys lose me even more.

It’s hard to believe that fan service is this huge ordeal and that they plan who will interact with who more. It's also hard for me to think that at this point in their career, BH staff are sitting with these almost thirty-year-old men and telling them how to act. It's absurd to me. While I definitely think there are things they are advised to do or shouldn't do or say, I don't see any of them as the huge conspiracies that fans (shippers) push. So no, the member’s actions are not controlled on the big scale many shippers suggest. I love speculation and theories but there are some things I can't bring myself to speculate about. So the "BH is pushing x ship,” "they edited out all the x ship moments for y ship,” "x member is doing fan service to feed shippers" conversations just bore me for the most part.

Even if they are told to do something, sit somewhere, or get paired together for content, it could simply not be about a ship— at least not in the way people think it is. I mentioned this in my first post but NOT EVERYTHING THESE MEN DO IS ABOUT A SHIP. This is one of the saddest parts of shipping to me. Shippers reduce these beautiful, unique, insanely interesting people to just a ship. “X is sad/hurt/happy because of Y,” NO he could literally just be happy. We’re talking about regular people here, people like you and me, who have so much to offer and shouldn’t be looked at solely through a shipper lens. Whether you think the ship is real shouldn’t matter because this is basic human decency.

The “x ship is being edited out theories”— These, like I mentioned before, bore me and in some instances frustrate me.

How can you say for sure that things you don’t know happened actually happened and were edited out? This kind of shipper logic isn’t for me I fear. I know you could say, “so you’re telling me x and y only interacted once that day?” but it still doesn’t hold up because—

There could be many reasons why a ship moment is cut out. Some possibilities include:

they thought it was boring- lol I don’t know; maybe the editors thought that moment was a snooze fest and they wanted to include things the people would find interesting.

time constraints- with content like ITS or Bon Voyage, where there are days worth of content from seven different perspectives, must be a shitshow to edit. It’s obvious not every interaction will get into the final version. To sit and think the editors intentionally said “We’re out of time? Scrap the x ship parts” is honestly laughable. Let’s be a little serious. Shippers are so funny to me sometimes because I can promise you regular people don’t give af about these ships as much as we do so I doubt they care enough to sabotage them.

it doesn’t fit in the theme of the content- The moment could just not fit in with the overall flow of the content. Maybe there is a particular image they’re trying to draw up with the content and a certain moment throws it off and doesn’t fit the image. With the time constraints I mentioned, it makes sense why they would want to insert some things over others.

something else is happening on screen- I know all shippers get disappointed when it seems like their ship is interacting and the angle changes. BUT that disappointment in that particular moment should not translate into these big conspiracy theories. It’s natural for the camera angle to switch when other things (probably more interesting or things that matter more to the overall content) happen. We’re looking at 7 different people for Christ’s sake.

it’s personal- This should be obvious but I am sure the guys talk about or do things that are just personal. Although I don’t think it’ll be anything crazy considering they’re mic-ed up and are aware they’re on camera, they could just not want certain things out there. They already show us so much (I’m grateful for that 4%) of their lives, I think we should allow them to be able to want things cut out.

*insert other reasons here that definitely does factor in but my brain can’t think of right now*

What irks me the most about these conversations is what they usually always stem from in the first place. They all come from an angle that serves to prove that some ships are better or claim that some ships only interact because they’re forced to. The hypocrisy that comes along with this type of shipping is also quite crazy to me. It’s always the ship you don’t like and that threatens your beliefs that is fanservice/fake/forced when they so much as touch each other but every single interaction between your ship is 100% real. I don’t think you guys hear yourself when you speak sometimes. I will never get why this shipping business needs to be a competition. Like the concept of going to war online over two people’s —who you most likely have never met and don’t know personally— relationship will always be interesting to me. It also doesn't matter whatsoever. No ship’s “realness” should depend on another being fake or worse and if that’s the case then maybe your ship isn’t as real as you think it is. All 21 (I swear I did the math, it’s 21 right??) ships in BTS are unique in their own way and I wouldn’t want any of them to be exactly like another because I love all dearly. Although some dynamics tug on my heart more than others, I will never dismiss any to bring up others because the boys genuinely love each other and I can tell as much.

You know sometimes I blame a lot of shipper logic and theories on the fact that many of us feel like these men’s lives are more interesting than they actually are. It’s so sad because a lot of the drama our brains think up makes the guys victims either to each other or the company. The fanservice argument is just that to me. Why can’t we believe the boys are fine in their current situation, that they enjoy their little fanservice moments to stir up fans but it’s not something they’re being held at gunpoint to do? They’re entertainers after all. Why do you as a fan of these guys, think they’re being completely calculating every time they show up in front of a camera? Why can’t yall believe they’re being as genuine as their situation allows? Maybe this is a naïve way of looking at things but it’s easier and it’s the foundation of my views as an ARMY. Playing the mind fuck olympics whenever a member comes around to spend time with us is exhausting. I don’t even share many of these opinions but simply reading them drains so much out of me. We really do read into certain things way too much and I get that’s the whole point or basis of shipping. Still, it gets really muddy to me when people start victimizing and villainizing parties involved because of the shipper’s (and even solo’s) opinions and perspectives.

In conclusion, I don’t agree with any of the fan service theories nor do I think fan service is a particularly bad thing. Even if I have fleeting thoughts about particular moments, I don’t entertain them too much because I don’t know the whole story. It’s also because I respect the members. I respect their autonomy, their words and their dynamics with each other and entertaining these ideas and theories that obviously (even if it isn’t obvious to you) disregard the things I respect would slowly destroy that. So the two just cannot coexist for me. Plus, this shipper thing just isn’t that serious to me. The only reason I even care to think and even talk about this topic is because of the hate the members get cause of it. It’s unfair:(

Look how cute they all look together while they do their little fan service🥺. #letmybabiesdofanserviceinpeace

ⁱ ʰᵒᵖᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ˢᵃʳᶜᵃˢᵐ ᶜᵒᵐᵉˢ ᵃᶜʳᵒˢˢ ⁱⁿ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ˡᵃˢᵗ ˡⁱⁿᵉ ᶜᵃᵘˢᵉ ⁱ ʳᵉᶠᵘˢᵉ ᵗᵒ ᵉˣᵖˡᵃⁱⁿ ᵐʸˢᵉˡᶠ

~~🐝

#BTS #fan service #shippergate #sope #taekook #vmin #jikook #letmybabiesdofanserviceinpeace #thoughts and analysis #yoongi’s gummy smile is so cute #just be normal idk bro #let my BANG PO i beg

[mimibwi]

BTS shippergate

(lol I just like saying xyzgate about any little drama so here we go.)

What is shipper’s issue with Taehyung recently and when did he become public enemy #1?? I am definitely on the 'Taehyung is smarter than people give him credit for' train but never did I think he was the evil mastermind some people think he is. Are we all really being serious or are a lot of your complaints about him colored in a jikooker, taekooker, taennie, y/n lens?? I’d go with the latter cause the things some of the aforementioned groups of people have said about Taehyung in the past few months can only be cooked up in a cauldron of delusion.

Let’s get this straight— Taehyung is not interacting with his friends/group mates (who he’s known for 10+ years, mind you) to feed shippers. It’s the way y’all will go to war with this idea that Tae wants to use Jungkook to cover up his alleged relationship. First of all, you’re giving him way too much credit. Who do you think Taehyung is that he can use Jungkook or Jimin or any other member for that matter, and keep doing it for as long as you claimed he has, without that member saying something about it. Do you think Jungkook is so scared of Taehyung that he can’t tell him to not mention his name on weverse? You always talk about “he knows how much hate Jungkook and Jimin get when he does this” does he? Now I’m not saying the boys are totally oblivious on the matter of ships but I definitely don’t think they see as much as y’all think they do. A lot of the things shippers talk about are very niche things that you would have to actively seek out for the most part, at least based on my experience. And this is just the english side of things, I don’t really know what the shipper climate is like on the korean side so it’s hard for me to entertain the idea that he knows about the things we (girl idek much) know about and doesn’t care. It’s also interesting to me that this claim is coming from jkkers when Jimin was treated similarly for years every time he so much as breathe in JK’s direction. i thought y’all will understand but I guess you’re fighting fire with fire…

But before we even get into all of that, why are we here in the first place? Why can’t we ever take anything the guys say or do just as it stands? I’d be with you guys if it was only silly little jokes but it isn’t. You guys are taking it so seriously and starting one sided beef with a man who probably wouldn’t know what you’re talking about. Why can’t something that was meant to be a joke between friends not just come across as such to you unless it fits your narrative? Why can’t two friends go to a movie premiere without it being seen as either a big ‘coming out’ moment or a PR stunt and nothing in between? (it can be because we saw 94z at an event and no one acted this weird, it’s always the maknaes smh) It’s because many shippers have reduced everything these men post, say or do as a hint of their relationship. Not everything they do has to do with a ship, whether you think that ship is real or is being used as a cover for some other relationship. Taehyung can post Jungkook on insta just because he wants to, he can talk about him 25/8 and no one should care unless JK says he has a problem with it. It’s just that many times shippers draw baseless conclusions from things that don’t even matter. It comes from that inability to separate the fact presented in front of you from the stories you make up in your minds. If this doesn’t change I can see this continuing to be a problem. We’ll see the same cycle of events occur if JK or Jimin ever end up in rumors like this (gawd i hope not, i’ve aged 64 years) because you guys refuse to leave room for deniability. I am not saying this as someone who thinks they’re holier than thou for not shipping the members but i’m saying this as a shipper myself. You cannot believe in a ship 100% because we do not know these people’s life, all we see is barely 4%.

*sighs* #makeshippingfunagain. lol has it ever been fun with BTS though? Things were already in the trenches when I got here:/.

Now taekookers who are switching up on Tae. I must say— this one is on you and i don’t know what else to tell you.

I’m not gonna repeat myself too many times cause this all comes down to the fact that you lot convinced yourself FOR YEARS that Tae so much as looking in JK’s direction meant he was hinting that they were married and in love. Taehyung has never told y’all explicitly that he was dating JK (if anything he’s showed signs that he isn’t, but let’s talk about this another day) so it’s not his problem that all your walls are now cracking. I think the state of that ship rn shows that a lot of y’all didn’t really like Taekook in the first place cause how does one of them possibly being in a different relationship cause y’all to jump ship so quick. Now I’m not telling you to start more discourses to deny Taennie, let it rest i beg. What i’m saying is Taekook still exists. Taehyung can have 20 *confirmed* girlfriends and 10 *confirmed* boyfriends and Taekook will still exist because at the end of the day they’re friends before anything else. But i guess if I was also preaching and fighting with others FOR YEARS about my ship being real I will also be throwing a temper tantrum right now. Anyway, if y’all are leaving you can just do it quietly, all of this is uncalled for. You’re just embarrassing yourselves.

Unto my last point, Taehyung isn’t obligated to be some protector of Jennie on the internet. They’re both involved in this mess and if any of them wanted to say anything or protect each other from their fans being equally as nasty to the other, they both have the means and platforms to do so. I don’t get this double standard that Tae has to protect her while she can just go about doing whatever she wants. And it’s honestly so dumb to be advocating for Jennie when (if we’re assuming they’re in a long term, loving relationship) she can just as easily tell her man what she wants/needs from him and whatever happens there is really not our concern. It’s also ridiculous cause what do you want him to do?? I’m genuinely curious.

Anyway i’m gonna end here because there’s no way I can go on without this giving me a stress ulcer. It’s not like I was surprised by any of this (y’all are predictable), I knew Tae would get hated no matter what he did after Paris and it’s going to keep happening once all of this is still in the air. Now, I get this whole taenniegate thing is a big deal, it’s confusing as shit and I acknowledge that. I can even acknowledge people having thoughts and opinions on the matter because we’re only human but some people, on every side you can think of, have definitely lost the plot. Let’s get it together!

~~🐝

^^if you hate him you will die and go to hell btw:))

#shippers #bts #taehyung #leave him alooooone #get a job #i don’t know how to use this app #shippergate #taenniegate #taekook #jikook #vmin

[mimibwi]

Why are you discoursing on shipping and shippers, admitting you're a shipper yourself and not committing to saying who you ship? Every shippers (and non-shippers) have biases and blind spots. Saying who you ship is an important disclaimer for readers to make informed opinions about what you're saying. for example the first post I saw of you I almost blocked you for saying taehyung was public enemy no1 to shippers. This is ludicrous to me considering although I recognize there are unfortunately an increase of Tae anti among shippers , it comes after years and years of tkkrs (kths and jjks too) sending the most virulent and violent hate to Jimin and spreading misinformation and smear campaigns about him daily on almost every platform. It is evident to me (who biases jimin) that the post I saw of you was not at all reflecting my personal experience and observations in the fandom. Now knowing your bias and your ship might help the conversation. Knowing where you're coming from and what your biases are could help ppl understand your posts better.

Hi anon!

Thank you for the ask. I guess this is fair criticism. It's something I've mulled over with myself for a while—whether or not I want who I ship to be known on this blog. Funnily enough, my most recent post was supposed to be the first on this blog and was initially meant to be an introduction to me and who I ship (I still have that version). But due to how volatile things were last year, I decided that I no longer wanted my blog to be specific to them but instead have a more general approach. I don’t want to be tied down as a person that only talks about x ship or even shipping alone. So my decision to not openly say who I ship was ironically a decision I made to have more open conversation. Then again, it’s not something I aimed to fully conceal either considering the name of my blog is a combination of their respective nicknames. I am and was always ready and willing to give up this information if anyone asked— kinda like you’re doing right now.

The post you mentioned was what ended up being the first on this blog and was honestly just my raw reaction to how events were playing out at the the time that I wrote it. It wasn't meant to be an overall look at the members being victims to shippers. In no way was I trying to imply that Taehyung has it worse than Jimin does and I think/hope me relating what was happening to the way Jimin was and still is treated showed that I acknowledged both as a problem.

As a vmin biased ARMY (and vminie), I think I drew one of the worse cards ever when it comes to my biases being hated on (and my ship being dismissed/looked down on). At any one point, if it isn’t akgaes (all the maknae line ones especially) then its the two other maknae line shippers or people from other fandoms completely. [do I have to disclaim that all the tannies get hate and me acknowledging the hate vmin gets isn’t me taking away from what the others get?]

Like you mentioned, every single person has biases (its also something I’ve stated here multiple times). My position as a vminie is what makes me oppose toxic shippers (and toxic solos) in almost every post I have on this blog as strongly as I do because I know that it’s possible to enjoy your ship in a relatively toxic free way and I also know what it’s like to have both of my biases slandered almost every day over things that, in the grand scheme of BTS and life in general, matter ZILCH.

It’s not very fun seeing the people you like being the center of this much negativity and in a way this is another reason I don’t really want to be blatant and preface everything I post here with that information. I know how people in this fandom work; if I was to do that, the “informed opinions” you mentioned are no longer going to be about the content of the post I put a lot of thought into but about other things— things that I decided to not be the focus of my discussions here.

Ultimately, I don’t think who I ship takes away from the main point that I’m trying to make with all my shipping posts here— shippers are way too secure in their ships which causes them to do and say things that are incredibly toxic and harmful to the members and fandom. This is what it will always boil down to when I'm talking about it. I do my best to be as objective as possible and as rational as possible with my opinions. So I’ll whack vminies if need be and I’ll defend ANY member or ship if I have to as well. TRUST.

[except for the fact that I’m not THAT active here and I take a while to decide how I want to say things😬]

Lastly, I get what you mean about wanting to understand my posts better by knowing my biases/ship but please don’t use it as an opportunity to assume you know exactly what I feel about things just because of who I ship. I’m never going to treat anyone who comes to me as “just an x shipper” and so I would respectfully prefer to not be dismissed as such either because I am, in the end, my own person.

~~🐝

I really hope I don’t have to deal with any “vminies exist?” or “bro Taehyung hates Jimin” in the future cause if I was defending Taekook before, trust that I’ll be on the front line for vmin’s friendship too. But like I said, these specifics really aren't what I want my conversations here to revolve around.

ᵐᶦᵐᶦ ⁺ ᵇʷᶦ ⁽ᵈᵒ ʸᵒᵘ ��ᵉᵉ ᶦᵗ ⁿᵒʷˀ⁾

#asks #jimin #taehyung #vmin #shippergate #all that work and what did it get me

[mimibwi]

I'm not talking about members hanging out together or mentioning each other! I'm talking about how recently BH has been pushing tkk and ynm in OFFICIAL content!!

busan promotion, las vegas promotion, hs concert, group vlive where jk is wearing the blue jacket, game of money video, festa photoshoot, yoonmin show guests...

Companies only care about money >> money came from army >> most army are tkk and ynm shippers >> hence why BH is pairing them up!

Hi anon!

If I’m being honest, I forgot about a huge chunk of all of this or didn’t find it important to mention last time. Either way, my views remain pretty much unchanged. I don’t want to keep responding to you with paragraphs but I ramble a lot so bear with me😬. I genuinely don’t think taekook, yoonmin or any other ship for that matter is specifically “pushed” by BH. Like I mentioned in the last answer, many ships get paired together, like in some of the subunits you mentioned above, so i don’t see any particular favorites being pushed by BH when I look at the content as a whole. So all ships get their time and that’s evident because all ships have their shippers. They all switch around between units at times and if I’m being honest, I don’t see Taekook very often. Maybe it’s because I get distracted by other things happening, I also have my biases when watching BTS content. And (as I mentioned in my last post) if you focus on Taekook you’ll obviously see when Taekook are paired and not when other duos are despite others being paired more often than them.

I tried to quickly think and search for times when BTS broke down into smaller groups just to see. Although this definitely isn’t everything, I think this ensemble of pictures proves what I want to bring across.

These lives show a ton of different duos and trios, some of which even repeat but i didn’t see people calling namjin or yoonjin “pushed”. Why is it different for Taekook?

Another reason it’s hard for me to jump to the “x ship is pushed” thing is because i’m not sure how things happen behind the scenes. Do the members choose or does the staff tell them who to go on live with? And if so do they choose every time or does the staff tell them every time? There are too many unknowns. The live you brought up was done with the remaining members after namgimin had a live about 2 weeks before. At that point Tae was sick so he obviously couldn’t be placed in that unit, it made sense he did it with the others when he came back to work. I don’t know how the namgimin live was decided on but the one you mentioned seems to be a by-product of that one. I’m going on a slight tangent but I’d say vminhopekook’s lives are usually of their choosing and I remember them saying in the Busan(?) one that those who aren’t there would go live with Jimin because he brought up he was visiting us once a week and he wanted guests. Although those lives didn’t happen, it proves that the guys talk and choose who wants to or should go live with who so it’s hard for me to use lives and certain other content as a proof of BH’s influence since I don’t know who’s decision it was.

For some other content, I can agree with you that BH are most likely the ones choosing subunits but that’s exactly what I see them as, SUBUNITS. They switch around these all the time as well. No one is counting how many times namjin or sope or namkook are paired up so why is it done to Taekook, Yoonmin and Jikook so often. I don't even think these ships, despite having the 3 biggest shipper fandoms are seen much in duos/trios that often. Personally, if I was BH and just wanted to drain ARMYs for money, I'd put vminkook in and on everything but they don't. I am not even trying to be a company stan or anything lol, I am just looking at it from the most realistic lens I can. So while they have certain duos and trios they like for certain content, I still don’t think it’s done with the intention to trick ARMYs who like those ships into spending money. If we're going by the "pushing for money" narrative, vmin and namjin must be the biggest money-making duos because BH loves these two pairings for ads and endorsements. I hope I’m not giving anyone any ideas for y’all to start saying namjin and vmin are being pushed now lmao— LEAVE THEM ALONE!!😭😭 Don’t get me wrong other subunits do ads too, it’s just hard to sit and compare. I don't think the reason certain members are paired for certain content is that serious— maybe it’s just about chemistry and which pairings will fit which concepts or ads well.

This is an honest question, though. Has certain duos being in promotional content made you want to buy the product more? Like they're all over Coway ads and I still don't know what Coway sells. Mattresses? water purifiers?? Ice makers?

Not an ad but...

I've bombarded you with pictures, sorry but I'm having fun lol. I'll try to wrap up quickly.

You brought up "hs concert" which I assume means Harry Styles? It's not official and I can't and won't comment because I don't know why they attended the concerts in the groups they did, both in 2021 and 2023. Seems like they had fun though. Good for them. Not sure which FESTA you're talking about but all they did was touch each other in that 2023 video so... Also Jimin was basically scenting Hobi in that video and I didn't see jihope being pushed allegations. I saw the opposite in fact. It just shows how hypocritical it is because jihope has been one of the most active duos this past year or so. Finally, yoonmin doing the show together makes sense as Jimin was ending his promotions and Yoongi was starting. I didn't expect Tae to go with Yoongi or Jk to go with Jimin as they didn't have any work to publicly promote at that time.

So, all in all, I don't think there's any hidden motives. Every ship has their time and every ship does their thing, maybe some more than others but the difference isn’t drastic enough for me to pinpoint any clear agenda to push one or two ships in particular. And most ARMYs (non-shippers & OT7 non-toxic shippers) will eat up anything because all the boys have their own unique chemistry. So I guess in a way every ship is pushed😆 and the ones that stand out to you will obviously be the ones you look out most for. I can’t begin to discuss how our biases and own perspectives affect the way the content comes across because it really does and as a shipper, it’s important to be aware of it.

Thanks for the ask anon! I had a lot of fun finding these pictures:))

~~🐝

The purpose of my answer (and all my posts tbh) isn’t to throw any pair under the bus or make others seem better. It shouldn’t and I hope it doesn’t come across that way. All I want to do is be a small voice of reason and hopefully show some shippers that a lot of their theories come of hypocritical when they compare some duos but not others, not that any should be compared in the first place.

#asks #BTS #shippergate #fan service #taekook #vmin #jikook #namjin #yoonmin #yoonjin #namkook #sope

[mimibwi]

Index

Welcome! I want to use this blog to share my analysis and thoughts on everything BTS, ARMY and overall stan-culture related.

Here's what I have so far-- hope you enjoy! 즐거운 시간 보내세요!

BTS shippergate (x)- the villainization of Taehyung

BTS and Fanservice (x)

Defending Taekook from fanservice allegation (1) (2) (3)

My Unpopular(?) BTS shipping opinions (x)

Why its likely no romantic ship exists (x)

My thoughts on shipping (x)

Who I ship (a not so big reveal) and why they aren't the focus (x)

#pinned post