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ultimateinferno · 2 years

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One thing I think some manga readers need to chill out on is the compulsive need to point out that Makima is the villain, especially when talking to anime-onlies and those who've fallen for her shit. Like, maybe you were able to catch on from the word go, but not everyone will and the way the narrative treats her, it's certainly intended to be a plot twist.

I also think by just painting her in broadstrokes as evil through and through with no reason to be likeable ultimately detracts from her character and the narrative of CSM. Makima is a manipulator. Making people like her is her whole thing and it works. With only what was shown of her in the anime adaptation, she has a lot going for her. In other stories, she would have been the polite but haughty kuudere love interest.

Within the episodes shown her most in-your-face negative trait is threatening to kill Denji. However, even when it's written out explicitly, she does it in such a manner that makes it easy for those who've already fallen for her shtick to write off. She always separates the action from her, or uses innuendo when talking about it. Like it's a bureaucratic decision made by her bosses, or some advice from the vets, or how she's never the one who would go through with it, but one of her subordinates. She says it in such a tongue and cheek manner that she has the plausible deniability that she's joking even when she isn't. This isn't to mention that every named character has threatened Denji's life from Aki to Power to Kobeni to Himeno. Threatening to kill Denji is just what people do apparently, not to excuse her but to just point out that it's not the most effective litmus on good vs evil in this setting.

Everything she does is laced with formality and delicacy. From genuinely harmless actions to straight up sexually assaulting Denji. What makes this so effective is how little effort or threats it takes to get people to do what she wants.

Which brings me to the big thing about her character: She is very rarely wrong. The entire speech about sexual intimacy having a greater impact when you're close to your partner and know them on a deep, personal level? She's correct about that! Or maybe when she helps Denji after he got drunk on Himeno vomit by giving him the candy, telling him that even if bad things happen, he will experience so much that they'll ultimately become footnotes in his life. Genuine wisdom. There's even her conversation with the Yakuza about how they're so far up their own ass as they rule Japan's underground while self absorbed that they're the "necessary evil," which albeit hypocritical still isn't wrong. Her little convo on the train about preferring to eat alone and hating dealing with her bosses. The movie date where she says that even if you find only one good movie, it makes watching all of the bads one worth it.

She's not never wrong, but the best lies are built on truths. As one of the few characters in the cast who has any semblance of understanding what the fuck is going on and as practically human pure devil, this all comes together to make it her the perfect manipulator. Anime-onlies will fall for it. When I read the manga, I fell for it. Even after I was clocked in on her doing something terrible from a random redditor's comment on fanart.

What makes Makima such a good villain and such a good representation for abusers is that she makes it very easy for many people to like her. Maybe not everyone, but more than enough. Many abusers aren't some shriveled bitter curs that release nonstop toxicity, they'd fool far less people that way. The best ones are those that make people go "How could they be abusive, they're so nice?"

You don't have to like her. It's probably a good thing you don't actually. She's not a good person, and if people are clearly excusing her bullshit even after reading the manga, go ahead and call it out, but also, let new viewers be wrong. Let them be tricked. Maybe it will reveal some things to them about themselves.

#csm #chainsaw man #csm spoilers #chainsaw man spoilers #makima #csm makima #if you get close enough to me or read the depths of these tags at all youll know i was abused by a woman in my life #the worst thing about abusers is that theyre people. because people are complicated nuance 3dimensional beings #made up of good and bad traits #it makes navigating this shit so hard and csm and makima ultimately made me realize that even though i wiggled out of the situation #im not immune to relapsing #i think if people have fallen into the second guessing spiral on trying to gauge how good makima is it #let them fall for it

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suffarustuffaru · 9 months

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Reading your tags about how people miss the very obvious "there's some fucked up shit boiling underneath" regarding Otto, just gave me a sudden realization. Otto is the only character I know in fiction where they act all innocent and drive up the "clumsy", "just in the side-lines" and "straight-man (heh)" persona. When. Like no one's in the EMT camp is buying it. They know he's way more capable than he let's on. Meanwhile, the tomfoolery is completely brought on by the Western audience.

Like Otto is failing miserably to make other characters believe that he's not up to mischief, Roswaal even thinks it can bring his downfall. But the audience, who even sometimes *sees* his fucked up thought process, is buying it.

*head in hands*

no u bring up so many good points bc ive been really thinking about this for a while T^T its such an interesting phenomenon in the difference in perception otto has between the japanese speaking half of the fandom vs the english speaking half which can be explained by—yeah. media illiteracy mainly. im also putting my head in my hands anon T^T

because—okay sorry wkdndn im gonna get into meta again but hear me out bc this pattern of the fandom underestimating otto is interesting bc i kind of sort of i cracked the code maybe??? o.o i think the nature of otto is a character is that youre SUPPOSED to underestimate him at first, just like what happens sometimes in universe. i mean wayyy back then i definitely wasnt expecting him to get more depth added to him in arc 4–which was a pleasant surprise—which is also the reaction the vast majority of people have to reading/watching arc 4, along with the other vast majority reaction which is being a bit endeared to ottosubas friendship and respecting otto for being a good friend. and then its easy to underestimate otto bc of 1. all the chaos going on in rezero at any given moment and 2. hes almost always overshadowed by other characters doing worse shit or being more insane than he is and 3. otto of course damn well knows hes easy to underestimate and counts on that. thats what he did against roswaal in arc 4. plus—i mean even aesthetics-wise hes 100% DESIGNED to be easy to underestimate. his outfit and physical features make him look either friendly or frazzled or soft. so i think that the point is that we were supposed to be kind of fooled—at first.

because yeah, we’re endeared to otto. we respect him for helping subaru the way he did. we think that hes a nice person and we now support his actions especially after feeling sympathetic towards him after learning his backstory. (or at least the average audience member will think this wjdndn.) but like—you dont even NEED to look at any side content at all for it to dawn on you that theres something Wrong. with him. like all you need is main route arcs 3-8 aka ottos entire screentime thus far, because at arc 4 its so easy to overlook otto unless youre thinking a bit deeper (for example—he gets violent with subaru. like yeah its entertaining, its played for laughs a bit, yeah subaru needed to be snapped out of his own head, but was it 100% necessary??? why did otto have this response??? bc if you just look at the main timeline otto really decided to beat up subaru first. and bc this tendency is now Less Funny in arc 8).

but even if youre just looking at rezero face value, when you get to arc 5 its starting to get even more clear that ottos weird in the head. like we already saw him being very good at scheming and planning in arc 4–in arc 5, we find out about otto hiding the tome for a year. we find out WHY hes been hiding the tome for a year. the tome then leads the witch cult into priestella, so like—in the sense, otto is RESPONSIBLE for arc 5. but theres STILL a tendency sometimes for the audience to continue underestimating him even though by this point we’re getting more clues and many characters around otto, like you said anon, KNOW hes very capable. i keep wondering why this is, but arc 5 is, again, FULL of chaos and different storylines happening at once, so its so easy to almost kind of forget otto there in the background until he occasionally pops up again. plus otto serves an additional role as comedic relief sometimes—he spends all of arc 5 being bitchy and whiny (i say this affectionately HAH) about his camp being full of disasters, for example, so i think the natural response from the audience tends to be “aw otto!! what a silly guy!!” sometimes. you know? so its like. i think at this point some people tend to be like “yeah fair that otto was wary of roswaal and thats why he saved the tome…. anyway ooooh whats going on with these other plot points” wobsbss. its so fascinating bc—ok this might be my own personal experience but anyone reading this pls tell me if you agree or not—i dont think ive seen a lot of people actually even MENTION otto bringing the tome into priestella attracting witch cultists. and the english speaking fandom LOVES to go into certain characters’ wrongdoings so why gloss over otto????

the only explanation i have for this is that from arcs 3-4 underestimating otto is. kind of the point of his character UNTIL you get to arc 5 and the clues in the main story start seeping in even more. and also the western audience DOES have media illiteracy a lot. theres that too. just look at rezero content on youtube or reddit or fanfic sites or other things of that sort T^T but no yeah i think ottos nature as a character exacerbates it. youre supposed to start asking questions about him. youre supposed to start connecting the dots and then SUDDENLY its now EXTREMELY obvious in arc 7-8 and even while theres so much chaos going on its basically shoved in your face. arc 7-8 is just delivering on all the leadup that was arcs 3-5.

and i think that youve gotta be media illiterate for sure to NOT get that otto is not squeaky clean and innocent BY ARC 8. i think that ottos the deconstruction of the loyal best friend trope, and also a mirror into what subaru couldve been like if he decided to be more ruthless instead of jumping right to forgiveness and saving everyone, except sometimes that flies right over the audience’s head wkdndnd. it confuses me bc ive seen some people completely miss the point or completely agree with otto and overlook the Bad Parts of it or, you know, STILL think ottos perfectly sane—like T^T please.

and yeah so back to what you said about otto Not being underestimated In Universe—its such an interesting detail bc hes ALWAYS been simultaneously pathetic and Very Competent wjdndnd. but yeah no all of his friends have seen various hints and clues and evidence of what hes capable of. like even though he hid the tome from them successfully and even though hes hiding info now its INEVITABLE that its gonna blow up in his face one day. like you got characters like garfiel who literally saw otto punch the wall and break his hand in an unhinged fit of rage, julius who got snapped at by otto and while julius is a Bit naive definitely knows somethings off there, anastasia whos smart as hell and definitely knows not to underestimate otto, and roswaal who, like you said anon, literally went out of his way to stop otto from breaking his hand in another unhinged fit of rage and warned otto that he will literally be destroying himself if he keeps going on like this. its this fascinating dichotomy bc otto is NOT fooling anyone around him but at the same time his current schemes are mostly unnoticed—for now—which yeah i havent seen that in a lot of media!!! its an interesting balancing act bc people around him realistically know hes competent after seeing the Proof of that for the past couple arcs, but otto is still finding ways to try and Win…

which—again, the anger and violence is an extension of arc 4 otto!! this is the same guy!! hes always been like this!! ottos kind of stayed the same, deep down, this whole time and as an audience its ONLY shoved in our face with a big gigantic spotlight on it FOUR ARCS LATER, but it was hinted to all this time. and like you said anon—we LITERALLY see ottos fucked up thought processes. literally what sane person thinks any of that shit. its spelled right out for the reader HAH T^T which—yeah. media illiteracy…. and also this whole ask was a longer way of just saying that otto is VERY easy to see at surface level if youre media illiterate. but at the same time it should be very easy to figure out otto is A Bit Fucked Up bc tappei underlines it in bright red print!!! i think people sometimes just hang onto soft awkward silly otto and forget about the rest T^T either that or they dont think he cares about subaru at all. which. that phenomenon of thinking characters that do care about subaru Dont Care is also interesting to me bc why????? we’re at arc 8 and you STILL dont get it??? o.ooooo

but yeah apart from that….. i said this earlier but yeah sometimes some people agree with ottos realism in arc 8 which is. understandable, but the whole point is that he is EXTREME. with it. hes Not in the right here, but the same crowd that wants wanton revenge in rezero is gonna agree with that kind of stuff T^T ottos been lurking in the background so much so that tappei made it meta by doing the whole “walking in darkness” part of his character, so i guess people just. dont see ottos ACTUAL worst traits and instead think he would ditch subaru at the first opportunity or something. but at the point we are now, arc 8 ottos problem isnt that hed ditch subaru. his problem is that he would sacrifice the world for subaru. his problem is that he gets extremely angry at subaru for trying to do good. his problem is that hes trying to micromanage everything around him and is willing to sacrifice anything necessary to get what he wants. but sometimes people dont get that bc otto doesnt look sound or seem like a character thatd do that. the Underestimation part of his character is doing too well on. certain audiences. please T^T the soft and awkward and silly parts ARE part of his character just like all the Darker parts are!!!

additionally im also wondering if western audience perception of otto is also clouded by the fact that otto looks and sounds more feminine / androgynous and he doesnt have the appeal of Overt Power either……. he cant Really be waifu-ified… and he cant be used as a weird self insert like subaru…. and you Have to look at him closer to understand him…. and for some reason people dont tend to hate on him so aggressively, if anything people cant even see his actual canonical flaws half the time wkdndn so if youre not paying attention otto CANT be aggressively hated on bc theres nothing there if ur not looking at it….. and if youre not paying attention otto seems more “boring” compared to the others…… (not that people arent allowed to not have otto as a favorite character bc thats totally fair but im talking about the tendency to think hes Saner than he actually is.) but yeah these are just my guesses. i have no clue the western fandom is a little T^T some people unfortunately cannot read.

anyway. big thank you to the japanese fanbase for understanding ottos character more and making so much wonderful fancontent for him T^T also i think that we as a collective fanbase should stop underestimating otto in general bc its exactly what he wouldnt want and i think itd be really hilarious. <3333 make him explode with rage please

#rezero #ask #yeah sorry this response was so long wkdndnd but yeah ive been thinking on this for a while…#like ottos a very key side character thats given a lot of focus and yet hes?? largely ignored in english fanbase #but also rezero is a special case i feel bc for some reason a LOT of people misread it so easily. all the time. even fans thatve made it to #arc 8. why???? T^T rezero is so divisive i feel and for what??????? why?????? why do people miss this the story makes it obvious what its #about??? not to mention the LITERAL anime episode called THATS WHAT THIS WHOLE STORY IS ABOUT WNDNDN #tappei basically slamming u in the face with otto being fucked up fr too HAH….#its like ottos falling into almost the same kind of stuff that rems perception by some people does. which is u know ignoring her problemati #traits of Being Obsessed With Subaru. shes a loyal ‘waifu’ and ottos a loyal friend but he cant be waifuified so easily and hes not front #and center in the sense that rem was also the second main love interest skdndnd #which i think might be the common fandom problem also of overly focusing on romance bc people notice rems loyalty more than they do otto at #this rate. bc rems the waifu. ottos only the friend. hes ‘less important’.#its interesting to me. bc why??? with other characters ppl either erase all the good or the bad out of them but with otto hes just in stasi #hes just kind of. there.#rip otto the bad luck made him cursed to always be in the background #it just confuses me so much T^T the difference between jp fandoms perception of otto vs english fandom is STAGGERING #otto suwen #the other day i accidentally got dragged into an argument on reddit bc someone tried to correct me on otto and i was like ?????? WHAT SANE #PERSON DOES ANY OF THE STUFF ARC 7-8 OTTOS DOING…???#they were like ‘otto wouldnt do anything for subaru’ and i was like ‘lmao whys he trying to have louis killed then 😭😭😭😭’#‘whyd he try to let 50 million ppl die then?? 😭😭’#‘WHY DID HE DIE FOR SUBARU THEN’#like ottos not gonna indulge subaru with everything thats not what i mean by he would do anything for subaru. he would do anything as in he #would sacrifice so much for subaru. but some people just see subaru doing it then ignore otto trying to do the same thing but in a differen #font???

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