#laws and customs

[warsofasoiaf]

What does it mean when the lords or people of a village or town seek a charter from a monarch? As it was said The river kings of old refused charters which would have allowed towns like Fairmarket, Saltpans, and Harroway to expand and potentially become cities. Further, why would Kings not want to grant charters to let towns become cities and thus generate more economic growth for the realm?

Charters outline the basics between village and overlord, much the way feudal contracts outline relationships between lords and vassals. A charter would determine who is responsible for what, schedule of tax payments, market days, and everything else you'd need to determine the ins and outs of running a village.

So, when a group of people want to enact a charter, they'd send a delegation to the King to essentially ask for royal permission to found their village and have it subject to all the edicts of royal law. They'd typically send a delegation that would also say the ways it could benefit the area and the King, to help boost the chances the King approves.

Typically, burgher power was in direct contrast and fought extensively with feudal landholder power. When villages expanded, it was typically into *someone's* fief, even if the land in question was not really tended. Feudal lords reacted very negatively to that, to put it mildly. So a King might refuse to issue charters that permitted expansion to avoid pissing off the aristocracy. Given how fractured the Riverlands was, the Kings of the Trident may have believed they couldn't win a battle with the entrenched aristocratic interests and refused to issue charters as a means to keep them on side.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

#feudalism #village charter #laws and customs

[goodqueenaly]

What kind of rights - if any - would a divorced noblewoman have in Westeros? In the case where a husband wants to set aside an infertile wife who hasn't done anything wrong personally, would the ex-husband be required to make sure she was provided for or that her honour isn't damaged, or would she just instantly stop being his responsibility? Likewise, is there anything requiring the woman's birth family to take her in again, other than worrying about optics?

A couple things.

Number one, we have no idea of the extent to which divorce - as a separate concept from annulment - exists in Westeros. When commenting on the issue, GRRM merely said that "divorce simply isn’t common”, but did not elaborate. Is divorce a legal remedy for Westerosi married persons, and if so, by what means can married persons seek divorce? (Let’s not even get into the question of whether these rules apply equally to followers of the Faith versus followers of the old gods versus followers of the Drowned God.) Therefore, it is completely impossible to say whether a Westerosi man could even divorce (again, specifically divorce) his wife, much less what would happen to either party in such a scenario.

Number two, even if we just focus on annulment (which definitely does exist in Westeros), we have almost no idea on what grounds Westerosi married persons can seek such a remedy. The only confirmed reason why a Westerosi annulment can be granted is non-consummation, though given the example of Tyrion and Tysha (whose marriage was definitely consummated) it’s very probable that there are other grounds which can secure a legitimate annulment - we just don't know them all. Therefore, we have no idea whether “a husband [who] wants to set aside an infertile wife who hasn't done anything wrong personally” could even do so, much less what would happen to either party even if such an annulment could be granted. (Again, I’m not even going to begin to touch on how the various faiths of Westeros might differ on this point.)

Number three, we have virtually (more on that in a moment) no examples of a successfully obtained Westerosi annulment where the parties were both aristocrats and went on to live (separate) aristocratic lives. (I don’t count the historical example of King Garland II Gardener, given that we have no idea how he legally justified “putting his own wives aside to marry Lord Lymond’s [i.e. Lymond Hightower’s] daughter” nor what happened to these (unfortunately typically nameless) ladies afterward.) Tywin very pointedly, very specifically did not give one iota of a shit what happened to Tysha after he arranged for that marriage to be annulled (and for Tysha herself to be gang-raped). If Aegon V had any conception for what he planned to do for (or with) Jenny of Oldstones after he had the marriage between her and Prince Duncan annulled, we don’t know yet what those plans might have been. Moreover, Viserys I shut down the idea of annulling Prince Daemon’s marriage to Rhea Royce, while Jaehaerys I and Alysanne vocally resisted Rogar Baratheon’s attempt to annul their marriage in 49 AC, so there is not much to glean from these examples on what might have happened to the brides involve. 

Now, we may learn much more about how the Faith and greater Westerosi society treats formerly married persons in TWOW and in Fire and Blood Volume 2. With Lancel having taken the vows of a Warrior’s Son, Amerei is no longer Lady Lannister. Jaime just barely touched upon this point in AFFC - leaving Amerei at Darry “weeping softly at the dissolution of her marriage whilst letting Lyle Crakehall console her” - though his troubled observation of “the hard looks on the faces of her kin as they stood about the yard” may suggest that the Freys will have more to say in the future on how they (and indeed the rest of the world) think of Amerei now that she is no longer Lancel’s bride. Littlefinger, of course, plans on marrying Sansa to Harry Hardyng, and I think will cite the (well-known) fact that Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion was never consummated to have the local religious authorities of the Vale declare Sansa to be as she was prior to the Tyrion marriage - that is, a highborn maiden fit to be wed to Harry. Too, on a historical level, Baelor the Blessed famously had his marriage to Daena dissolved - and while Baelor himself thereafter imprisoned Daena (as well as her sisters) for the rest of his life, we don’t yet know how the rest of Baelor’s court saw Daena after the news of the dissolution.

#asoiaf meta #laws and customs #marriage in asoiaf

[sam-glade]

Happy Worldbuilding Wednesday! What are some traditions surrounding love (platonic and romantic) in your world?

Hi Kraken! 💜 Thank you so much for another traditions/customs question. I adore those.

I've got to be honest, I imagined this society as a fair bit more promiscuous than the real world, and very much queer-accepting (I really wouldn't enjoy writing about a queerphobic world for this long). So go forth and have all the casual relationships you want. Or none. Whatever you like.

However, marriage is still a thing, but it is seen more as a union between two families, with the focus on stability in a relationship, pooling resources, etc. Since it's primarily a legal contract, it's not uncommon for people in platonic relationships to get married. Or in romantic, but not sexual relationships. It's a tool. It's a way of telling the world 'we're a package deal'. You get the gist.😉

The traditional proposal involves giving your partner a white flower, and saying:

“I offer you this white flower as a sign of my honesty and goodwill, and (in front of the witnesses gathered here) I ask you to take me as your spouse and be mine.”

With the response being:

“I accept this flower from you, and in return I promise you a red one on the day you will become my spouse, and I yours.”

From that point until the wedding day, the couple wears white ribbons - either braided into their hair or pinned to their clothes, possibly shaped into a little flower.

The wedding itself lasts for a full 24 hours, from noon until noon, and yes, it involves the other party reciprocating the gesture with a red flower. Then comes a quite long list of other elements (drinking bitter wine, then sweet mead from a single cup passed between them, exchanging burning candles or torches, etc), followed by a feast. Very traditionally, the couple eats from a single plate and has their hands bound to each other until noon the following day. In practice, they'd have their hands tied together, share a symbolic starter, and be done with it, because come on, it's inconvenient as hell😉

A lot of the elements are a bit of a pick and choose, whatever the regional variations and the interested parties' preferences dictate. You can probably figure out how to adapt it for polycules, although I admit there's only one wedding happening on page, and it's between a couple, so I didn't need to work it out.

Tl;dr: don't give people single white or red flowers, unless you mean commitment🙂

#worldbuilding #worldbuilding wednesday #info dump #days of dusk #laws and customs

[tmarshconnors]

Magna Carta, 1215

JOHN, by the grace of God King of England, Lord of Ireland, Duke of Normandy and Aquitaine, and Count of Anjou, to his archbishops, bishops, abbots, earls, barons, justices, foresters, sheriffs, stewards, servants, and to all his officials and loyal subjects, Greeting.

KNOW THAT BEFORE GOD, for the health of our soul and those of our ancestors and heirs, to the honour of God, the exaltation of the holy Church, and the better ordering of our kingdom, at the advice of our reverend fathers Stephen, archbishop of Canterbury, primate of all England, and cardinal of the holy Roman Church, Henry archbishop of Dublin, William bishop of London, Peter bishop of Winchester, Jocelin bishop of Bath and Glastonbury, Hugh bishop of Lincoln, Walter bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Coventry, Benedict bishop of Rochester, Master Pandulf subdeacon and member of the papal household, Brother Aymeric master of the knighthood of the Temple in England, William Marshal earl of Pembroke, William earl of Salisbury, William earl of Warren, William earl of Arundel, Alan of Galloway constable of Scotland, Warin fitz Gerald, Peter fitz Herbert, Hubert de Burgh seneschal of Poitou, Hugh de Neville, Matthew fitz Herbert, Thomas Basset, Alan Basset, Philip Daubeny, Robert de Roppeley, John Marshal, John fitz Hugh, and other loyal subjects:

+ (1) FIRST, THAT WE HAVE GRANTED TO GOD, and by this present charter have confirmed for us and our heirs in perpetuity, that the English Church shall be free, and shall have its rights undiminished, and its liberties unimpaired. That we wish this so to be observed, appears from the fact that of our own free will, before the outbreak of the present dispute between us and our barons, we granted and confirmed by charter the freedom of the Church's elections - a right reckoned to be of the greatest necessity and importance to it - and caused this to be confirmed by Pope Innocent III. This freedom we shall observe ourselves, and desire to be observed in good faith by our heirs in perpetuity.

TO ALL FREE MEN OF OUR KINGDOM we have also granted, for us and our heirs for ever, all the liberties written out below, to have and to keep for them and their heirs, of us and our heirs:

(2) If any earl, baron, or other person that holds lands directly of the Crown, for military service, shall die, and at his death his heir shall be of full age and owe a 'relief', the heir shall have his inheritance on payment of the ancient scale of 'relief'. That is to say, the heir or heirs of an earl shall pay £100 for the entire earl's barony, the heir or heirs of a knight 100s. at most for the entire knight's 'fee', and any man that owes less shall pay less, in accordance with the ancient usage of 'fees'.

(3) But if the heir of such a person is under age and a ward, when he comes of age he shall have his inheritance without 'relief' or fine.

(4) The guardian of the land of an heir who is under age shall take from it only reasonable revenues, customary dues, and feudal services. He shall do this without destruction or damage to men or property. If we have given the guardianship of the land to a sheriff, or to any person answerable to us for the revenues, and he commits destruction or damage, we will exact compensation from him, and the land shall be entrusted to two worthy and prudent men of the same 'fee', who shall be answerable to us for the revenues, or to the person to whom we have assigned them. If we have given or sold to anyone the guardianship of such land, and he causes destruction or damage, he shall lose the guardianship of it, and it shall be handed over to two worthy and prudent men of the same 'fee', who shall be similarly answerable to us.

(5) For so long as a guardian has guardianship of such land, he shall maintain the houses, parks, fish preserves, ponds, mills, and everything else pertaining to it, from the revenues of the land itself. When the heir comes of age, he shall restore the whole land to him, stocked with plough teams and such implements of husbandry as the season demands and the revenues from the land can reasonably bear.

(6) Heirs may be given in marriage, but not to someone of lower social standing. Before a marriage takes place, it shall be made known to the heir's next-of-kin.

(7) At her husband's death, a widow may have her marriage portion and inheritance at once and without trouble. She shall pay nothing for her dower, marriage portion, or any inheritance that she and her husband held jointly on the day of his death. She may remain in her husband's house for forty days after his death, and within this period her dower shall be assigned to her.

(8) No widow shall be compelled to marry, so long as she wishes to remain without a husband. But she must give security that she will not marry without royal consent, if she holds her lands of the Crown, or without the consent of whatever other lord she may hold them of.

(9) Neither we nor our officials will seize any land or rent in payment of a debt, so long as the debtor has movable goods sufficient to discharge the debt. A debtor's sureties shall not be distrained upon so long as the debtor himself can discharge his debt. If, for lack of means, the debtor is unable to discharge his debt, his sureties shall be answerable for it. If they so desire, they may have the debtor's lands and rents until they have received satisfaction for the debt that they paid for him, unless the debtor can show that he has settled his obligations to them.

* (10) If anyone who has borrowed a sum of money from Jews dies before the debt has been repaid, his heir shall pay no interest on the debt for so long as he remains under age, irrespective of whom he holds his lands. If such a debt falls into the hands of the Crown, it will take nothing except the principal sum specified in the bond.

* (11) If a man dies owing money to Jews, his wife may have her dower and pay nothing towards the debt from it. If he leaves children that are under age, their needs may also be provided for on a scale appropriate to the size of his holding of lands. The debt is to be paid out of the residue, reserving the service due to his feudal lords. Debts owed to persons other than Jews are to be dealt with similarly.

* (12) No 'scutage' or 'aid' may be levied in our kingdom without its general consent, unless it is for the ransom of our person, to make our eldest son a knight, and (once) to marry our eldest daughter. For these purposes only a reasonable 'aid' may be levied. 'Aids' from the city of London are to be treated similarly.

+ (13) The city of London shall enjoy all its ancient liberties and free customs, both by land and by water. We also will and grant that all other cities, boroughs, towns, and ports shall enjoy all their liberties and free customs.

* (14) To obtain the general consent of the realm for the assessment of an 'aid' - except in the three cases specified above - or a 'scutage', we will cause the archbishops, bishops, abbots, earls, and greater barons to be summoned individually by letter. To those who hold lands directly of us we will cause a general summons to be issued, through the sheriffs and other officials, to come together on a fixed day (of which at least forty days notice shall be given) and at a fixed place. In all letters of summons, the cause of the summons will be stated. When a summons has been issued, the business appointed for the day shall go forward in accordance with the resolution of those present, even if not all those who were summoned have appeared.

* (15) In future we will allow no one to levy an 'aid' from his free men, except to ransom his person, to make his eldest son a knight, and (once) to marry his eldest daughter. For these purposes only a reasonable 'aid' may be levied.

(16) No man shall be forced to perform more service for a knight's 'fee', or other free holding of land, than is due from it.

(17) Ordinary lawsuits shall not follow the royal court around, but shall be held in a fixed place.

(18) Inquests of novel disseisin, mort d'ancestor, and darrein presentment shall be taken only in their proper county court. We ourselves, or in our absence abroad our chief justice, will send two justices to each county four times a year, and these justices, with four knights of the county elected by the county itself, shall hold the assizes in the county court, on the day and in the place where the court meets.

(19) If any assizes cannot be taken on the day of the county court, as many knights and freeholders shall afterwards remain behind, of those who have attended the court, as will suffice for the administration of justice, having regard to the volume of business to be done.

(20) For a trivial offence, a free man shall be fined only in proportion to the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly, but not so heavily as to deprive him of his livelihood. In the same way, a merchant shall be spared his merchandise, and a villein the implements of his husbandry, if they fall upon the mercy of a royal court. None of these fines shall be imposed except by the assessment on oath of reputable men of the neighbourhood.

(21) Earls and barons shall be fined only by their equals, and in proportion to the gravity of their offence.

(22) A fine imposed upon the lay property of a clerk in holy orders shall be assessed upon the same principles, without reference to the value of his ecclesiastical benefice.

(23) No town or person shall be forced to build bridges over rivers except those with an ancient obligation to do so.

(24) No sheriff, constable, coroners, or other royal officials are to hold lawsuits that should be held by the royal justices.

* (25) Every county, hundred, wapentake, and tithing shall remain at its ancient rent, without increase, except the royal demesne manors.

(26) If at the death of a man who holds a lay 'fee' of the Crown, a sheriff or royal official produces royal letters patent of summons for a debt due to the Crown, it shall be lawful for them to seize and list movable goods found in the lay 'fee' of the dead man to the value of the debt, as assessed by worthy men. Nothing shall be removed until the whole debt is paid, when the residue shall be given over to the executors to carry out the dead man’s will. If no debt is due to the Crown, all the movable goods shall be regarded as the property of the dead man, except the reasonable shares of his wife and children.

* (27) If a free man dies intestate, his movable goods are to be distributed by his next-of-kin and friends, under the supervision of the Church. The rights of his debtors are to be preserved.

(28) No constable or other royal official shall take corn or other movable goods from any man without immediate payment, unless the seller voluntarily offers postponement of this.

(29) No constable may compel a knight to pay money for castle-guard if the knight is willing to undertake the guard in person, or with reasonable excuse to supply some other fit man to do it. A knight taken or sent on military service shall be excused from castle-guard for the period of this service.

(30) No sheriff, royal official, or other person shall take horses or carts for transport from any free man, without his consent.

(31) Neither we nor any royal official will take wood for our castle, or for any other purpose, without the consent of the owner.

(32) We will not keep the lands of people convicted of felony in our hand for longer than a year and a day, after which they shall be returned to the lords of the 'fees' concerned.

(33) All fish-weirs shall be removed from the Thames, the Medway, and throughout the whole of England, except on the sea coast.

(34) The writ called precipe shall not in future be issued to anyone in respect of any holding of land, if a free man could thereby be deprived of the right of trial in his own lord's court.

(35) There shall be standard measures of wine, ale, and corn (the London quarter), throughout the kingdom. There shall also be a standard width of dyed cloth, russet, and haberject, namely two ells within the selvedges. Weights are to be standardised similarly.

(36) In future nothing shall be paid or accepted for the issue of a writ of inquisition of life or limbs. It shall be given gratis, and not refused.

(37) If a man holds land of the Crown by 'fee-farm', 'socage', or 'burgage', and also holds land of someone else for knight's service, we will not have guardianship of his heir, nor of the land that belongs to the other person's 'fee', by virtue of the 'fee-farm', 'socage', or 'burgage', unless the 'fee-farm' owes knight's service. We will not have the guardianship of a man's heir, or of land that he holds of someone else, by reason of any small property that he may hold of the Crown for a service of knives, arrows, or the like.

(38) In future no official shall place a man on trial upon his own unsupported statement, without producing credible witnesses to the truth of it.

+ (39) No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land.

+ (40) To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.

(41) All merchants may enter or leave England unharmed and without fear, and may stay or travel within it, by land or water, for purposes of trade, free from all illegal exactions, in accordance with ancient and lawful customs. This, however, does not apply in time of war to merchants from a country that is at war with us. Any such merchants found in our country at the outbreak of war shall be detained without injury to their persons or property, until we or our chief justice have discovered how our own merchants are being treated in the country at war with us. If our own merchants are safe they shall be safe too.

* (42) In future it shall be lawful for any man to leave and return to our kingdom unharmed and without fear, by land or water, preserving his allegiance to us, except in time of war, for some short period, for the common benefit of the realm. People that have been imprisoned or outlawed in accordance with the law of the land, people from a country that is at war with us, and merchants - who shall be dealt with as stated above - are excepted from this provision.

(43) If a man holds lands of any 'escheat' such as the 'honour' of Wallingford, Nottingham, Boulogne, Lancaster, or of other 'escheats' in our hand that are baronies, at his death his heir shall give us only the 'relief' and service that he would have made to the baron, had the barony been in the baron's hand. We will hold the 'escheat' in the same manner as the baron held it.

(44) People who live outside the forest need not in future appear before the royal justices of the forest in answer to general summonses, unless they are actually involved in proceedings or are sureties for someone who has been seized for a forest offence.

* (45) We will appoint as justices, constables, sheriffs, or other officials, only men that know the law of the realm and are minded to keep it well.

(46) All barons who have founded abbeys, and have charters of English kings or ancient tenure as evidence of this, may have guardianship of them when there is no abbot, as is their due.

(47) All forests that have been created in our reign shall at once be disafforested. River-banks that have been enclosed in our reign shall be treated similarly.

*(48) All evil customs relating to forests and warrens, foresters, warreners, sheriffs and their servants, or river-banks and their wardens, are at once to be investigated in every county by twelve sworn knights of the county, and within forty days of their enquiry the evil customs are to be abolished completely and irrevocably. But we, or our chief justice if we are not in England, are first to be informed.

* (49) We will at once return all hostages and charters delivered up to us by Englishmen as security for peace or for loyal service.

* (50) We will remove completely from their offices the kinsmen of Gerard de Athée, and in future they shall hold no offices in England. The people in question are Engelard de Cigogné, Peter, Guy, and Andrew de Chanceaux, Guy de Cigogné, Geoffrey de Martigny and his brothers, Philip Marc and his brothers, with Geoffrey his nephew, and all their followers.

* (51) As soon as peace is restored, we will remove from the kingdom all the foreign knights, bowmen, their attendants, and the mercenaries that have come to it, to its harm, with horses and arms.

* (52) To any man whom we have deprived or dispossessed of lands, castles, liberties, or rights, without the lawful judgment of his equals, we will at once restore these. In cases of dispute the matter shall be resolved by the judgment of the twenty-five barons referred to below in the clause for securing the peace (§61). In cases, however, where a man was deprived or dispossessed of something without the lawful judgment of his equals by our father King Henry or our brother King Richard, and it remains in our hands or is held by others under our warranty, we shall have respite for the period commonly allowed to Crusaders, unless a lawsuit had been begun, or an enquiry had been made at our order, before we took the Cross as a Crusader. On our return from the Crusade, or if we abandon it, we will at once render justice in full.

* (53) We shall have similar respite in rendering justice in connexion with forests that are to be disafforested, or to remain forests, when these were first afforested by our father Henry or our brother Richard; with the guardianship of lands in another person's 'fee', when we have hitherto had this by virtue of a 'fee' held of us for knight's service by a third party; and with abbeys founded in another person's 'fee', in which the lord of the 'fee' claims to own a right. On our return from the Crusade, or if we abandon it, we will at once do full justice to complaints about these matters.

(54) No one shall be arrested or imprisoned on the appeal of a woman for the death of any person except her husband.

* (55) All fines that have been given to us unjustly and against the law of the land, and all fines that we have exacted unjustly, shall be entirely remitted or the matter decided by a majority judgment of the twenty-five barons referred to below in the clause for securing the peace (§61) together with Stephen, archbishop of Canterbury, if he can be present, and such others as he wishes to bring with him. If the archbishop cannot be present, proceedings shall continue without him, provided that if any of the twenty-five barons has been involved in a similar suit himself, his judgment shall be set aside, and someone else chosen and sworn in his place, as a substitute for the single occasion, by the rest of the twenty-five.

(56) If we have deprived or dispossessed any Welshmen of land, liberties, or anything else in England or in Wales, without the lawful judgment of their equals, these are at once to be returned to them. A dispute on this point shall be determined in the Marches by the judgment of equals. English law shall apply to holdings of land in England, Welsh law to those in Wales, and the law of the Marches to those in the Marches. The Welsh shall treat us and ours in the same way.

* (57) In cases where a Welshman was deprived or dispossessed of anything, without the lawful judgment of his equals, by our father King Henry or our brother King Richard, and it remains in our hands or is held by others under our warranty, we shall have respite for the period commonly allowed to Crusaders, unless a lawsuit had been begun, or an enquiry had been made at our order, before we took the Cross as a Crusader. But on our return from the Crusade, or if we abandon it, we will at once do full justice according to the laws of Wales and the said regions.

* (58) We will at once return the son of Llywelyn, all Welsh hostages, and the charters delivered to us as security for the peace.

* (59) With regard to the return of the sisters and hostages of Alexander, king of Scotland, his liberties and his rights, we will treat him in the same way as our other barons of England, unless it appears from the charters that we hold from his father William, formerly king of Scotland, that he should be treated otherwise. This matter shall be resolved by the judgment of his equals in our court.

(60) All these customs and liberties that we have granted shall be observed in our kingdom in so far as concerns our own relations with our subjects. Let all men of our kingdom, whether clergy or laymen, observe them similarly in their relations with their own men.

* (61) SINCE WE HAVE GRANTED ALL THESE THINGS for God, for the better ordering of our kingdom, and to allay the discord that has arisen between us and our barons, and since we desire that they shall be enjoyed in their entirety, with lasting strength, for ever, we give and grant to the barons the following security:

The barons shall elect twenty-five of their number to keep, and cause to be observed with all their might, the peace and liberties granted and confirmed to them by this charter.

If we, our chief justice, our officials, or any of our servants offend in any respect against any man, or transgress any of the articles of the peace or of this security, and the offence is made known to four of the said twenty-five barons, they shall come to us – or in our absence from the kingdom to the chief justice – to declare it and claim immediate redress. If we, or in our absence abroad the chief justice, make no redress within forty days, reckoning from the day on which the offence was declared to us or to him, the four barons shall refer the matter to the rest of the twenty-five barons, who may distrain upon and assail us in every way possible, with the support of the whole community of the land, by seizing our castles, lands, possessions, or anything else saving only our own person and those of the queen and our children, until they have secured such redress as they have determined upon. Having secured the redress, they may then resume their normal obedience to us.

Any man who so desires may take an oath to obey the commands of the twenty-five barons for the achievement of these ends, and to join with them in assailing us to the utmost of his power. We give public and free permission to take this oath to any man who so desires, and at no time will we prohibit any man from taking it. Indeed, we will compel any of our subjects who are unwilling to take it to swear it at our command.

If one of the twenty-five barons dies or leaves the country, or is prevented in any other way from discharging his duties, the rest of them shall choose another baron in his place, at their discretion, who shall be duly sworn in as they were.

In the event of disagreement among the twenty-five barons on any matter referred to them for decision, the verdict of the majority present shall have the same validity as a unanimous verdict of the whole twenty-five, whether these were all present or some of those summoned were unwilling or unable to appear.

The twenty-five barons shall swear to obey all the above articles faithfully, and shall cause them to be obeyed by others to the best of their power.

We will not seek to procure from anyone, either by our own efforts or those of a third party, anything by which any part of these concessions or liberties might be revoked or diminished. Should such a thing be procured, it shall be null and void and we will at no time make use of it, either ourselves or through a third party.

* (62) We have remitted and pardoned fully to all men any ill-will, hurt, or grudges that have arisen between us and our subjects, whether clergy or laymen, since the beginning of the dispute. We have in addition remitted fully, and for our own part have also pardoned, to all clergy and laymen any offences committed as a result of the said dispute between Easter in the sixteenth year of our reign (i.e. 1215) and the restoration of peace.

In addition we have caused letters patent to be made for the barons, bearing witness to this security and to the concessions set out above, over the seals of Stephen archbishop of Canterbury, Henry archbishop of Dublin, the other bishops named above, and Master Pandulf.

* (63) IT IS ACCORDINGLY OUR WISH AND COMMAND that the English Church shall be free, and that men in our kingdom shall have and keep all these liberties, rights, and concessions, well and peaceably in their fullness and entirety for them and their heirs, of us and our heirs, in all things and all places for ever.

Both we and the barons have sworn that all this shall be observed in good faith and without deceit. Witness the abovementioned people and many others.

Given by our hand in the meadow that is called Runnymede, between Windsor and Staines, on the fifteenth day of June in the seventeenth year of our reign (i.e. 1215: the new regnal year began on 28 May)

#Magna Carta #1215 #British Library #Manuscript #Charter #Laws #government #parliament #british parliament #customs #british english #british empire #freedom of speech #laws and customs #uk politics #europe #money #pound #free will #today on tumblr #history #british imperialism #british flag #great britain #Magna Carta Libertatum #commonly called Magna Carta #near Windsor #on 15 June 1215. #king john #Runnymede

[pro-royalty]

Zendaya

#zendaya #challengers #black girl magic #beauty #law roach #style #custom #celia kritharioti #fashion #black beauty #biracial #challengers movie #pro-royalty

[fuck-customers]

When the chip readers for credit cards first started rolling out at the place I worked, there was a glitch where if the customer took the card out before it was done, the entire register system would freeze. I always, ALWAYS, told the customers “Put your chip in and don��t take it out until you hear the machine beep, otherwise it could freeze the system and we will have to start the transaction over/wait/etc.” We also only had three check-out registers, and two customer service registers.

Gentleman comes up to purchase his electronic. Puts chip in. I explain the way I always do. He takes the card out before it’s done. System freeze. He apologizes, and I reiterate that if he takes his card out before it’s fine the system will freeze. We move to another register while the first one reboots. He puts his card in. I tell him again not to take it out till it beeps. Again, he takes it out before. Second register is now frozen and has to reboot. When we moved to the third register, I asked him to hand me the card so I could perform the transaction myself. Idk if he was being malicious with his incompetence but he got REALLY pissy when I told him not to touch his card and that I would take it out for him. He asked for a manager. When the manager came over he literally told the customer “You’ve cause two registers to be down because you didn’t listen to instructions. I’m sorry but what else did you expect?”

One of the rare moments where management took my side.

#call center problems #fuck coworkers #fuck customers #fuck retail #happy ending #trigger warning #embarrassing #fuck co-workers #retail justice #retail law #submissions #tw: #server problems #fuck managers #cashier problems #tw

[ardafanonarch]

Hello, in fic I've come across mentions of

- the elves stopping frequently on their journey to Aman to have sex (and Orome urging them forward by creating storms?)

- elf sex being too intense for most mortals to survive

I think these come from HoME or NoME (or similar sources), but I've never seen the actual quotes. There might be other things related to elf-sex in there as well.

So I guess my question is: What else did Tolkien mention about elf sex, apart from (the already relatively well-known) LaCE?

Elf Sex Lore

There comes a time in every Tolkien fan’s journey when they come upon the Professor’s writings on Elf sex — and, since 2021, there are even more! Elf Sex Lore remains a hot topic as the fandom continues to experience the aftershocks of the spurt of new lore that came with the publication of The Nature of Middle-earth (NoMe) in 2021.

As you say Anon, before NoMe was published, the fandom’s primary resource on Elf sex was the (in)famous essay Laws and Customs Among the Eldar (LaCE), published in 1993 in Morgoth’s Ring, the tenth volume of the History of Middle-earth series. LaCE is full of juicy (or not-so-juicy) lore about Elven aging, marriage, gender roles, naming, death, and rebirth.

It is in relation to the first two that we get some details on Elf sex, such as the knowledge that “it was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete.” (Laws B). We also learn that:

“…the Eldar say* that in the begetting, and still more in the bearing of children, greater share and strength of their being, in mind and in body, goes forth than in the making of mortal children. For these reasons it came to pass that the Eldar brought forth few children; and also that their generation was in their youth or earlier life, unless strange and hard fates befell them. But at whatever age they married, their children were born within a short space of years after their wedding. For with regard to generation the power and the will are not among the Eldar distinguishable. Doubtless they would retain for many ages the power of generation, if the will and desire were not satisfied; but with the exercise of the power the desire soon ceases, and the mind turns to other things. The union of love is indeed to them great delight and joy, and the ‘days of children’, as they call them, remain in their memory as the most merry in life; but they have many other powers of body and of mind which their nature urges them to fulfil.” The History of Middle-earth Vol. 10: Morgoth’s Ring, ‘The Later Quenta Silmarillion (II)’, Laws B

*Note how this paragraph is introduced: “the Eldar say”. Phrases like this signal to us that LaCE is not written from a Elvish point of view. There are indications elsewhere clearly pointing to a human author with a human audience in mind.

Translation: Elves use up a lot of energy in baby-making, including in the sex part (“begetting”) but even more in the pregnancy and birthing part (“bearing”), so they don’t have a lot of children and they do so early in life, shortly after marriage. But even if they marry later in life, Elves are still able to have babies because being able to and wanting to reproduce are the same thing for Elves. But once they’ve fulfilled the desire to make babies they’re good and turn to other things. Still, they look back on the time of baby-making as “the most merry in life”.

In most (if not all) cases, when Tolkien writes about sex he is writing about reproduction. Did Elves have sex solely for pleasure? Maybe; I cannot find anything that says they didn’t. I also can find little conceptual separation of sex and reproduction in Tolkien’s writings. Make of that what you will.

(At this point I want to reiterate a principle central to this blog: it’s about presenting what canon says; it is not about casting judgement on creations that subvert, reinterpret, or ignore canon, none of which makes a work lesser than one which adheres strictly to canon.)

So what did NoMe add to our knowledge about Elf sex? First of all, let’s make sure we all know what NoMe is.

What is The Nature of Middle-earth?

NoMe is a volume of texts by J.R.R. Tolkien collected and edited by Carl Hostetter. It is basically a supplement to the last three volumes of The History of Middle-earth (Morgoth’s Ring, The War of the Jewels, and The Peoples of Middle-earth), which cover a period from the late 1950s to his death during which Tolkien was undertaking a rather massive project of worldbuilding, working out the structures underlying his Silmarillion mythology in preparation for revising and publishing what he had written of it before ‘a sequel to The Hobbit’ (LotR) took him away from it for the better part of two decades.

Christopher Tolkien in Morgoth’s Ring called this undertaking “analytic speculation concerning [the] underlying postulates” of his world (Foreword to Morgoth’s Ring). That’s how we end up with essays like LaCE and the philosophical debate about the fates of Men and Elves in Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth.

The texts in NoMe all date to around the same time and deal with the same sorts of questions about the physics and metaphysics of the world: it contains the essay on ósanwë, for example.

The Context of the NoMe Sex Lore

The first section of NoMe, ‘Time and Ageing’, is where we get the new lore on Elf sex. As it happens, the sex lore is rather incidental to extensive ruminations two core questions:

How did Elves experience the passage of time and how did they age?

How did the population of Elves go from 144 at Awaking to a sufficiently high number (around 30 000) when they reached the shores of Beleriand on the Great Journey?

(It is not relevant to get into why 144 and why 30 000 here; suffice to say those are the numbers Tolkien wanted and he expended great imaginative and mathematical energy trying to make them work.)

A note on the textual context: Anyone who has ever engaged in worldbuilding knows how it can go. You think (for example), “Okay, I need to develop a backstory for this character’s spouse,” and before you know it you are knee-deep in invented genealogies and geographies and Eru-knows-what-else.

It’s important to bear in mind that this is what Tolkien was doing. The quotes we are about to look at (yes, very soon!) are from a collection of evolving (and unresolved) notes in various states of refinement from barely legible scribbles to carefully penned essays. I will let you decide what that means to you based on your personal definition of canon, but I wanted the textual context to be clear.

Elf Sex Is Intense

In relation to Question 1, Tolkien considers the time-scales of Elven growth, including pregnancy. In the essay under discussion, Tolkien decides that Elven pregnancy should, like human pregnancy, take about 3/4 of a year. Oh no - not that kind of year. A yên, a ‘long year’, the unit used by the Elves and to which the matter of their bodies (their hröar) is bound. Elves gestate for 108 Sun years.

I know what you’re asking: If the pregnancy lasts 108 years, then how long does the sex last?

No? No! You’re probably asking yourself why Tolkien hated Elf-women so much (don’t worry, he says there’s no pain…)! But Tolkien was interested in the first question, which he answered thus:

“On the other hand the act of procreation, being of a will and desire shared and indeed controlled by the fëa, was achieved at the speed of other conscious and wilful acts of delight or of making. It was one of the acts of chief delight, in process and in memory, in an Elvish life, but its intensity alone provided its importance, not its time or length: it could not have been endured for a great length of time, without disastrous “expense.”” (NoMe, p. 24)

An earlier version of this passage, which you may also come across in fandom, comes to a similar conclusion:

“But the act of procreation not being one of growth until the union of the seed and being under full control of the will does not take long - though it is longer and of more intense delight in Elves than in Men: too intense to be long endured.” (NoMe, pg. 27)

Translation: Pregnancy, like other aspects of physical growth, is a process of the hröa over which the fëa has no control; thus it is bound to unfold on “Elvish time”, i.e. 1 year = 144 years. But the sex leading up to it is an act of the fëa and under its control and therefore occurs at a “normal” speed. The Elves love it, too! But not because of how long it lasts, which is a regular amount of time, but because of how intense it is. In fact, it is so intense that if it were any longer they would suffer “disastrous “expense”.”

What is this “expense”? Basically, it’s referring to the usage of an Elf’s natural “vitality” — far greater than that of Men but not infinite. As far as I can tell, this passage means that having intense Elf sex for too long would have spiritual results similar to Míriel’s bearing of Fëanor, or Fëanor’s creation of the Silmarils. Too much of their spirit would be expended (used up) in the act, with possibly disastrous consequences.

These are the quotes from which, I think, originate the rumour that Elf sex was too intense for mortals to survive. As you can see, the discussion is about Elf/Elf relations. Elf sex is too intense for Elves to endure for too long. Anything about what this means for Elf/Mortal sexual relations is fan conjecture.

That’s the Elf Sex nugget from Tolkien’s considerations of Elven growth rates: Elf sex (between Elves) is intense but of a normal duration.

Elven enthusiasm for baby-making delays March

As you can imagine, more nuggets are unearthed in relation to Question 2, which boils down to Tolkien crying: “I need the Cuiviénen Elves to breed a lot and quickly!”

Initially, Tolkien developed some Elven life cycle schemes that had them taking a leisurely approach to reproduction, with each generation taking many hundreds, even thousands, of Sun years to materialise.

This scheme did not work for getting him from 144 to ~30k in the timeframe he wanted. So, he made some adjustments to the scheme with respect to the timing of Elven maturity and consequent desire to begin reproducing — and then set about getting those Elves procreating!

One of the solutions he entertained was giving the Elves opportunities to reproduce on the Great Journey. He laid all of this out in a timeline (NoME, p. 49-53) detailing where and for how long the host of Elves would pause because of the “desire to beget children” (p. 49).

Reading this timeline, it can become increasingly comical each time this desire to reproduce (i.e., have sex) halts the host. It can start to read like, “The Elves took forever to cross Middle-earth because they couldn’t stop banging!” And, in a way, that is what happened. But bear in mind the context is an attempt at solving the problem of increasing the Elven population to a number Tolkien considered satisfactory for his worldbuilding endeavours. An Elven enthusiasm for sex is there, but it’s not the whole picture.

There are several points on the timeline when Oromë hangs out with the Elves or checks in on them, and he does become increasingly concerned with their begetting-related delays. For example:

“About 2000 pairs (of available Telerin 8th gen. of 4,950) beget children in the spring 1130/80. The Chiefs and Oromë are disturbed.” (NoMe, p. 51)

(“The Chiefs” are Ingwë, Finwë, and Elwë.)

And:

“Either by chance, machinations of Sauron, and/or because Oromë withdraws protection (hoping to make the Eldar less content with their new Home (Atyamar), winters are hard and the weather worsens.” (NoMe, p. 51)

The second quote is the origin of that rumour about Oromë creating storms to urge the Elves on because they were having too much sex. Is it canon? Not quite: Oromë didn’t create the storm, for one, and the emphasis is on sex for the pleasure of children more than the pleasure of sex on its own (though, as we know from the previous discussion, sexual pleasure was certainly had!). But the rumour you've heard is not without basis in Tolkien’s notes.

The First Elves Really Loved Sex

There’s one more Elf sex nugget in NoMe that I’d like to end with. While scrambling to get his Cuiviénen Elves reproducing at an adequate rate to reach his population-at-finding target, Tolkien came up with what he calls the “Quick prolific” scheme (p. 99).

“The Quendi in their first few generations before the March (or reaching Valinor) must — as is quite reasonable — be made far more eager for love and the begetting and bearing of children. *They must have larger families, at shorter intervals between births.” (p. 107)

To explain this attitude of reproductive eagerness in the first few generations of Elves, Tolkien coins the term “philoprogenitive” — they love to procreate! Procreating — not artistic and intellectual pursuits or exploration or leadership as with later generations — is their number one priority in life. So much so that “they mated almost at once with their predestined mates” (p. 54).

Not only that, but they have so many babies! In one version of the scheme, 12 children per couple in the first generation (p. 108). (This soon changes to 6 per couple. Philoprogenitive they may be, but no one gets to outdo Fëanor).

As with the highly intense Elf sex and the Great Journey delayed by procreating, this is another bit of NoMe lore with great imaginative potential. As we learn from LaCE, Elves enjoyed sex, quite a bit actually, but they enjoyed a lot of other things also, and after a period of baby-making they would usually move on from sex (though they would always remember it fondly). But the First Elves, those early generations by the shores of Cuiviénen? No such balance between sex and other pursuits. It was all about sex and procreation for them.

Of course, what we’ve been looking at are drafts and notes. While all written around the same time (late 1950s to early 1960s), none of the texts here examined were ever finalised and many of them don’t even agree with each other. Tolkien was experimenting; he was worldbuilding. And with the publication of these notes in NoMe, we in turn get some intriguing ingredients for worldbuilding of our own.

So, do as you like with the Elf sex lore. But if you’re looking for a great setting for some canon-compliant smut, may I suggest Cuiviénen?

Resources

PDF of LaCE

Mythgard Academy’s seminars on The Nature of Middle-earth. You don’t actually have to have read or own NoMe to follow these discussions. Great for getting a handle on the material, and ideal for listening as you work your way through reading.

#nature of middle-earth #history of middle-earth #laws and customs among the eldar #anon #happy valentine's day

[swampstew]

1-800-GRANDLINEBLING ♥ Call Me On My Shell Phone

To celebrate 1K+ followers, I opened up phone lines to the crews! Part 1 of 3 ~ X reader (and one OC) with Kid, Killer Law, Zoro, and Sanji for myself, @quinloki @icy-spicy @yamat0 @mandiemegatron and @leftsidebonfire Part 2 | Part 3

You are now being connected to...

Purururu purururu puru—

Kid: Hey babe, I know it’s been a while since we talked. Even longer since I’ve seen ya…and I miss ya…so damn much. I’ll be back from my trip soon and when I do, I’mma make it be like I never even left. Don’t make any plans for the next few weeks - yeah weeks, you’re gonna be stuck with me for a minute! HAAH? Sorry the line is busy, but I’ll see you real soon. I love you.

Waking up to start your morning routine, you were interrupted when you heard a commotion in your backyard. Hurriedly, you investigated and found that some kind of animal had gotten into your she-shed and left a mess. After you cleaned it up, you went back to your bedroom and was stunned to find your bed made up and decorated with flowers and treats.

"KID!" you squealed as the giant scooped you up from behind, burying his nose in your neck, softly kissing your skin until he reached your lips. Ravenous as he sweetly but impatiently kissed you, leaving traces of his favorite red shade smeared all over you.

"Hey," he finally whispered, kissing your cheek, "Get dressed, I'm taking you out. I have a whole day planned for us."

Killer: Hey gorgeous, it's good to hear your voice. Man I really miss you, actually we'll be docking very soon. Is it alright if I take up your day and night? Heh, you're so sweet. I'll be sticking around for a bit before the next trip, and I'd like to spend that time with you. Yeah? Awesome. I'll be there soon. I'm cooking you the best pasta you'll ever have!"

Killer did not specify which day he was visiting, which made you all the happier when someone knocked on your front door and it turned out to be your new beau. You giggled as he scooped you into a bear hug, your legs lifted off the ground by his strength and height difference.

"Mmmm there she is," he sighed behind his face mask, nuzzling your face to push the fabric away. "Gods I missed the way you feel in my hands," he kissed your cheek softly.

"Kiiilllller not outside," you whine.

"As you wish," he huffed, rushing inside and kicking your door close as you left out a delighted shriek. "We won't be cooped up in here all the time though, I think I owe my girl some spoiling and pampering."

Law: Hey. It's been a while hasn't it? How are you? Thanks, I'm doing ok, I'll be better when we dock on land. The crew is going to do their own thing but I'm hoping I can stay with you and make up for lost time. Yeah? I like the sound of tha--wait, dancing? You know I can--tch--Shachi needs the phone. We'll talk when I see you. No, you're not convincing me to go dancing.

Bitch he thought.

Law landed on your island and it took all of 2 hours before you dragged him to the comic book store. A simple route to throw him off his game - so when your day trip transitioned to lunch date, to at-home-nap, to dinner with friends, to the rave party down the block, he couldn't help himself but follow you into the booming building. All it took was some peer pressure, shots, a lot of tequila, and some glow in the dark bracelets. He's down so bad for you.

Zoro: Hello? Is this thing even on? Oh you can hear me! Good. We'll be on dry land soon enough, and if you want to hang out or whatever, I'm ok with doing that. TCH No, I don't need you to pick me up, I can find your place on my own. Yes I'm sure! I--hm I have to go, the stupid cook needs the snail. I uhm, look forward to seeing you.

You were pleasantly surprised to find Zoro on your doorstep, on time exactly like he said he would be. You didn't miss the way Franky zoomed away on his motorcycle, all sly-like.

"Told you I knew my way around," the swordsman scratched the back of his head, a pink hue grew on his cheeks as his eyes looked everywhere but you.

"Sure, sure whatever you say Marimo," you grin cheekily, and that made him more flustered.

"TCH, annoying ass. Look we don't have to hangout--"

"Shut up, annoying man!" you bite back, the curve of your lips growing wider as you antagonize your crush.

With a huff, Zoro finally looks you in the eye, the blush on his face deepening, "With an attitude like that, I know exactly what we're going to do first. Hope you still have your sparring gloves."

Sanji: MON CHERIEEEEE!!! I've missed you every day like a plant misses the sun on a rainy day. We'll be making port in a day and I can't wait to show up on your doorstep with my heart - no, not literally, I know that freaked you out the last time. Do you need me to pick up anything? You always say 'no its ok,' but I swear you're never inconveniencing me! I swear on the mosshead's life! I'll see you soon my love.

As promised, Sanji appeared on your front porch carrying a picnic basket full of goods and trinkets he brought from his travels. Delighted, you threw your arms over him and he swung you around once before planting a big kiss on your cheek.

"Oh, I've brought a friend if that's ok," Sanji whispered in your ear.

You looked behind him to find a shy little cow trailing behind the French cook.

"Of course," you squealed happily, "Everyone is always welcome here. Let's warm up some milk for this baby to eat."

#1-800-grandlinebling #call me on my shell phone event #follower milestone event #one piece fandom #swampstew events #kid pirates #straw hat pirates #heart pirates #eustass kid #trafalgar law #den den mushi customizations #black leg sanji #roronoa zoro #x reader #eustass kid x reader #massacre soldier killer #killer x reader #trafalgar law x reader #roronoa zoro x reader #sanji x oc

[sillylotrpolls]

Given the inexplicable but undeniable popularity of my recent poll regarding the Fellowship's (lack of) sexual experiences, it seems like a good time to bring this one back for an "extended edition."

As the topic is NSFW (the logistics of Elvish weddings) the poll has been hidden behind the Keep Reading link.

Previous results here.

According to Tolkien, the physical act of consummation (aka sex) is marriage for an elf. Any party or ceremony is just a bonus/excuse for your relatives to get drunk and dance. But don't worry, an elf can't be forced into marriage! They just die instead. O_o

#lotr #lord of the rings #poll #polls #the silmarillion #silm #laws and customs among the eldar #extended edition poll

[say-it-aint-soap-operas]

I need to know what age Law decided to start getting tattoos and his ears pierced. Like did Shachi and Penguin make him wait until he was 18 and he just went crazy? Did he get them younger?? Did he ever actually experiment with makeup and hair dye??

#trafalgar law headcanons #c: trafalgar d water law #trafalgar law #one piece trafalgar law #trafalgar d water law #trafalgar d. water law #op law #hey emo boy hey hey hey emo boy #did he see another emo #and was like #omg I need that look #also!!! #does he sew his own clothes and customize them #or does he pay someone for that???

[blackswaneuroparedux]

Make your own rules or be a slave to another man's.

- William Blake

#blake #william blake #quote #rules #rule breaking #obedience to the law #custom #sherlock holmes #jeremy brett #smoking

[warsofasoiaf]

Barristan is a Targaryen fanboy. His thoughts during his POV chapters make that obvious. So my question is this…why did he serve Robert? Why didn’t he just escape in the dead of night to go to Dragonstone or head to Essos to seek out Ser Willem in exile?

Barristan doesn't like making decisions for himself - it's one of his big defining characteristics of his early character. Barristan also knows that if he fled, after being pardoned and sworn into service, that he'd be abandoning his oath. Oathbreaking is a serious societal menace, but there's also the practical issue of why anyone would trust him? To Willem Darry, he'd look like the guy who swore an oath to Robert to stay alive and keep his position only to betray him. Would you want such a man guarding the last Targaryens if he could forswear his oath so easily?

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

#barristan selmy #laws and customs

[goodqueenaly]

When making marriage betrothals between houses of different regions, do you think customs and cultural differences are taken into account when arranging these marriages?

Catelyn farred well in Winterfell even though she follows the faith of the seven, was ever a discussion on what faith the children would be raised in?

If Joanna and the Princess of Dorne have betrothed their children, how the arrangement would be handled? Do you think young Elia and Cersei would be sent to live in Dorne and Casterlly Rock respectively to get them prepared for their marriages? Like, when Rhaelle Targaryen and Myrcella were sent to Dorne and Storms End when they were betrothed (for different reasons within the story, but you get the point).

Generally speaking, I’d expect that brides (and this is a patriarchal society, so we’re probably mostly talking about brides) would be expected either to follow the faith of their respective lord husbands and/or to raise their children in the faiths of those respective husbands. It’s worth noting, after all, that there appears to have been no sept at Winterfell prior to Ned building one for Catelyn, despite Starks historically marrying Seven worshipers (more on that in a moment); indeed, I’ve even wondered whether part of the argument against the succession of Sansa and Serena Stark might have been that their mother Jeyne Manderly supposedly raised them to be no-good very-bad Seven worshipers. Recall, too, the horror of young Daella Targaryen, who, learning that she would be expected to say her vows before a weirwood, exclaimed in fear that she would “go to hell” because “they don’t believe in the gods” (emphasis in original). Likewise, Gyldayn reports that courtiers and onlookers distrusted Larra Rogare in part specifically because she “insisted upon keeping her own gods” and “would have no part in the worship of the Seven, nor the old gods of the northmen”; rumors even asserted that while her son Aegon was “anointed with the seven oils” following his birth, Larra “meant to have him blessed by her own gods as well”, adding to the distrust which Larra faced at the court of King’s Landing.

Now, is this true in every single Westerosi marriage? Of course not. As I mentioned, Ned had the sept at Winterfell built specifically for Catelyn, and while virtually all of her children have shown at least some level of reverence toward the old gods, the Starks still acknowledged the potential for worshiping the Seven. Sansa herself admitted at the outset of ACOK that she had historically favored her mother’s gods, and Ned had presented the office of High Septon as one of Bran’s career options when talking to Arya about her brother. On a larger scale, the Andal Invasion featured any number of marriages between Andals and First Men, performed almost literally hand in hand with the conversion of much of Westeros’ population (continental and south of the Neck, anyway) to the Faith of the Seven the Andals had brought to Westeros. Similarly, when Harmund II Hoare wed Lelia Lannister, the king himself promoted a sort of syncretism between the Faith and the religion of the Drowned God, while their son Harmund was raised to be a Faith worshiper. 

As for the logistics of the marriage arrangements imagined by Joanna Lannister and/or the Unnamed Princess of Dorne, it’s very difficult to say. Certainly Oberyn believed that “there was an empty cabin on our ship, a very nice cabin … [a]s if it were intended that we take someone back to Sunspear”, but we don’t know that, even if Tywin had agreed to such a match (and he was never going to, of course), he would have assented to Cersei and/or Jaime sailing back to Dorne with the Unnamed Princess. Nor is it a requirement that a Westerosi bride live with the family into which she is marrying for any amount of time, much less a substantial amount of time, prior to her marriage. Catelyn was betrothed at 12 to Brandon Stark, but had apparently never visited Winterfell before she went to live there (now as the wife of Ned) at the end of Robert’s Rebellion; Lyanna, who had “long been betrothed”, in Yandel’s words, to Robert Baratheon by the outset of Robert's Rebellion, was similarly still living at Winterfell immediately prior to that planned marriage. While it can certainly be politically advantageous to have a bride do so - Rhaelle and Myrcella, as mentioned, representing not just their betrothals but pseudo-hostage-style commitments on the part of the Iron Throne to assuage the wrath of the Baratheons and Martells, respectively - this arrangement is far from standard or expected in all Westerosi marriages.

#asoiaf meta #laws and customs #marriage in asoiaf

[sam-glade]

Happy WBW! 💜💌 What does the ideal (or stereotypical, or both if they're different) marriage/partnership look like in any of the cultures present in the world of your WIP? Is it about a powerful union of equals? Is it about chemistry and happiness? Is the end goal to produce kids? How does gender impact this, if at all? etc.! :) - @liv-is

Hi Liv! Happy WBW💜

Oh, I like this question. I've talked about wedding traditions in the Sunblessed Realm before, but not the wider aspects.

How does gender impact this, if at all?

It doesn't! This is an queernorm society, designed as a bit as a thought experiment 'let's imagine what it would be like', but mostly because writing anything else wouldn't be as much fun for me in the long run.

What does the ideal (or stereotypical, or both if they're different) marriage/partnership look like in any of the cultures present in the world of your WIP?

A formal, legally-binding marriage is typically between two people, though it's possible to modify the contract and the rites for more than two (I just didn't need to figure it out on page. There's a single wedding in the entirety of Days of Dusk AND The Truth Teller).

Also, since it's a long-lived culture (age of majority: 35, average lifespan: 300 years, but in practice until you get tired of life), people tend to get married and look to settle down once they're over 100. There's this pattern in people's lives, that if you find your vocation, something that you can do every day for your life and enjoy said life, you can in theory live forever. For the first century, people are encouraged to figure out what they want to do in their lives, and try things out. Also, promiscuity isn't frowned upon - a result of a paganism-like religion which reveres nature, and a culture with a stress on nurturing, earnest communities.

So I guess a stereotypical married couple would be 150+ yo, and have their lives more or less figured out.

Is it about a powerful union of equals? Is it about chemistry and happiness?

Nope! It's about bringing two families together. In the typical case, e.g. in Lissan's hometown, the people who'd be suspected to plan on marrying soon, would be a couple that spends a lot of time together, is often seen in each other's homes, and whose families spend a lot of time together as well. On the other hand, people without families (e.g. Erya or Gullin) wouldn't really consider marriage as something for them.

This family aspect is taken to uncomfortable levels by the nobility, who see it as a way of cementing alliances, strengthening connections, and pooling fortunes. And so, at some point later in the story Lissan is 'adopted' into a noble house, and has a partner without plans for marriage. He is pestered a lot with questions if he'd consider a union with one of the other local noble houses. Clearly if he isn't planning to marry his boyfriend, the neighbours can make a better offer, with material perks and promises of stability. It doesn't help that at the time he's in a 'friends with benefits' sort of relationship, and said boyfriend doesn't feel the need to be seen with him, or attend balls and other formal functions together.

Fortunately, it's governed by legal contracts, and marriages are not that hard to dissolve, especially with mutual agreement (see: Lissan's parents). Also, queernorm -> doesn't have to involve sexual attraction. Some people will get married for the legal perks and stability, if they'd formed a platonic bond strong enough. And a similar result can probably be achieved with a series of contracts, so marriage is almost a shorthand for that.

Is the end goal to produce kids?

On that note, adoption is a popular choice for families who want children but can't have biological offspring. E.g. the Prince of Rock, from the Southern Princedom, is an adopted son of his mothers (in the current draft of Prodigal Children).

PS. In The Fulcrum, my birdfolk doesn't do romantic partnerships at all. I know some birds irl form long-term couples and some are monogamous, but I thought it would be fun to play with a society where romantic love doesn't exist. There are strong platonic bonds, there's love for one's community, and there's the drive to procreate. That's it.

#add 'wanting to write queernorm societies' to the reasons why I don't do historical fiction #just let me have this little piece of escapism in my setting #also if anyone has thoughts on how common polyamory would be without the Western society's stigma please let me know #days of dusk #wbw #ask and i shall answer #laws and customs

[melsie-sims2]

Jessica gave birth to a healthy baby girl in the middle of the kitchen, surrounded by her roommates and a couple of friends.

Welcome to Plumwell, Valentina Guzman!

#sims 2 #ts2 #sims 2 gameplay #ts2 gameplay #sims 2 custom hood #hood: plumwell #plumwell rotation 2 #jessica law #valentina guzman #plumwell census

[pro-royalty]

Zendaya by German Larkin

at Bvlgari’s Mediterranean High Jewelry Event (2023)

#zendaya #black girl magic #beauty #law roach #style #custom #richard quinn #black beauty #biracial #cannes 2023 #cannes film festival #pro-royalty