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lurkingteapot · 11 months

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code switching and emotions in step by step

During ep … 8? 9?, I noticed that Jeng tends to switch to English with Pat when talking about emotional things. He didn't for the big damn confession in the club, but for a lot of things, he'll drop into English from Thai, and Pat does it right back.

We don't know what their respective strongest languages (L1) are, though I'd assume it's Thai for both of them, though they've both, per the narrative presented to us, lived abroad and speak English fluently, so we don't know for sure (in the sense that it's never stated). Pat uses it with his parents occasionally, Jeng uses it with Jaab on an occasion or two.

And the thing is … unlike many many MANY examples of codeswitching in fiction, I feel like these sort of make narrative sense. Linguistic research suggests there's a lessened emotional impact, particularly of negative statements, when hearing or speaking a second language compared to the strongest language. There are a lot of theories as to why this is, and I've been out of academia for way too long to be confident I could accurately represent any of them, but iirc the effect has been tracked fairly reliably across several studies in the past 10-15 years.

And this isn't something consciously acted upon normally! Just something that happens with the way our brains organise our languages, but it has consequences in how we use language. Bilinguals, when speaking to someone else who shares their languages at sufficient levels of proficiency, might find themselves naturally switching into one or the other because it "feels easier" to express things in one language or another. (Also, as anyone whose L1 ISN'T their main fic reading language can attest to, porn in own L1? cringe as fuck almost universally, and there's a containment-breaking tumblr post to that effect out there somewhere to prove it.)

In the case of Jeng and Pat, my hunch is that it's a) an emotional thing – some things feel safer, easier to say or hear with some emotional distance, whether it's soul-bearing honesty ("It makes sense to me") or suggestive little lines to drop to your FINALLY BOYFRIEND ("I'd rather have you [than the cake]"), and b) as a sort of equaliser – Thai has a few features that express hierarchy/seniority that can't easily be dropped from the language that aren't present in English, and Jeng in particular might feel that using English with Pat brings them onto a more equal level.

Of course, there's also the possibility that it's just there for flavour, or for getting shit past the radar, or even for the actor's sake – all been done before. But I like to think that this is something the creators actually intended for the characters, for all the reasons outlined here.

#step by step #ค่อย ๆ รัก #step by step the series #step by step ep 10 #step by step meta #meta #armchair linguistics #language meta #my nonsense #I'm tired and not sure this is coherent but I'm posting it anyway

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olive-garden-hoe · 2 months

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Tmnt 2012 hc:

I think that if the turtles were humanized they would all be black and/or blasian since they’re siblings and would have to have the same genetic tree (in 2012 I’m pretty sure they’re biologically related). However I love idea that they have slight differences between them since they hang out in different areas in nyc (a diverse city with a bunch of different cultures that I think would really interest them).

So anyways I hc that Splinter brought them all up to be bilingual, however Raph and Donnie aren’t as good at Japanese anymore since I think they aren’t as good with languages and they would consume a lot of English content growing up + Leo probably started translating Splinter for them and they kinda stopped needing to use it, so it faded a bit. I think Raph stopped speaking Japanese but can still understand it and could speak it (with some grammar and pronunciation errors) in a pinch. Donnie rarely speaks Japanese but he speaks it from time to time with Splinter, Leo, or Mikey. Leo is probably fluent in Japanese and English and I think her (Leo is transfem in my books) and Mikey can read Japanese while Raph and Donnie can’t. However, I think that Leo code switches and sometimes makes tiny grammar/pronunciation errors, with Mikey being the best at Japanese of all their (Mikey is aroace gender-fluid) siblings.

I don’t think Raph is a big language buff (unlabeled he/him non binary Raph supremacy), so he probably just knows English and Japanese. Meanwhile, I think Donnie knows code languages and probably taught themself (They/them for Donnie, source: me) obscure/dead/constructed languages like Esperanto or Latin. Leo probably can understand/read Spanish to some extent, though she’s barely conversational speaking it. She might also know certain phrases in a bunch of different languages since I hc that she wants to travel. Mikey, in my opinion, will be the best at picking up languages, probably fluent in Latin American Spanish, Mandarin Chinese, and Cantonese, conversational in Italian and Korean, and has begun to pick up some Haitian Creole (though her pronunciation isn’t good because she probably sounds either very American or has WAY to heavy of an accent). They also codeswitch and mesh together languages pretty often, so his siblings have begun to pick up a bit of their languages, especially Leo (how she learned Latin American Spanish)

I think they speak primarily English among themselves and Japanese/English with Splinter, who is plays a little game with himself when he hears music to guess the language it’s in

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luulapants · 1 year

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Let’s talk about obscenity

Western culture is currently in the midst of a great linguistic transition from the second to the third age of obscenity. Right now, it looks like we’re going to approach it more or less the same way that we did the first two, but I think that would be a mistake. So let’s talk about the history of “foul language”:

The First Age

The reason it’s called “cursing” and “swearing” is because, originally, obscene words were religious blasphemy. Making oaths to God, taking the Lord’s name in vain, cursing God. We can see this in the numerous euphemisms that were created as stand-ins for those words: “jeez” for “Jesus,” “tarnation” for “damnation,” “golly” for “God,” “heck” for “hell.”

The commandment “Thou shalt not take the Lord’s name in vain” meant to not invoke the name of God or make oaths on God except when sincerely meant. But as religious topics became entangled with the concept of obscenity, it was over-applied until people would spell out G-O-D rather than say the world when actually talking about God. Moreover, making religious words taboo didn’t stop people from engaging in the actual blasphemies that were meant to be taboo. Is shouting “Jeez!” really any less disrespectful than shouting “Jesus!”? They signify the same concept.

Many of these words continued to be seen as obscene in following ages, but increasingly only by the very devout. Words like “fuck,” “shit,“ “ass,” etc. existed during the first age. They may have been seen as crass, but they weren’t thought of as obscene until the second age.

The Second Age

During the first age, most common folks lived in one-room homes. Couples had sex in the same room as whoever lived with them. People used the chamber pot in front of their families. There just wasn’t room for people to have a sense of privacy about their bodies.

As that changed - starting with those of higher social standing - society developed new norms around sex and the body. The curse words of the second age related to these topics. Once again, a conceptual idea of what was morally correct - keeping sex and the body private - was extended to language. Not only were you not supposed to show anyone your ass, but you couldn’t say “ass” even when talking about it. So “butt”/”buttock” came in, which previously mainly referred to cuts of meat, but then that became obscene, so we have “rump” and “derriere” and “bottom.” What we might call a euphemism treadmill.

Looking back, it’s easy to call this silly. They’re just words, so what does it matter if you say “shit” or “crap” or “poop” or “doo doo”? They all mean the same thing! But the shift to ideas of body privacy weren’t bad. We’ve dialed back the Puritanical prudishness, but we don’t want to return to using the chamber pot in the middle of the living room either. Sex is still considered a private activity, and we don’t want to watch others have sex without agreeing to it first. But making the word “fuck” taboo didn’t create healthy attitudes toward sex or gave us space to grapple with issues like sexual health and consent.

If you’ve found yourself thinking that people don’t care as much about swearing anymore, noticing that media increasingly allows obscene language and no one really cares if you drop a curse word in casual company, you’re partially right... because the words we consider obscene are once again changing.

The Third Age

Today, the worst words you can use are slurs. Words that we use against groups of people. Like the second age, this shift has come due to a broader shift in social norms: it used to be socially acceptable to discriminate against groups of people. Now it is not. This is, objectively, a good thing.

However, if we follow in the pattern of the first two ages of obscenity (and we’re on that track), we can almost guarantee that a focus on correct words will overshadow and inhibit discussing the social changes we want to make. In an interview with Codeswitch, Professor Randall Kennedy, author of Nigger: The Strange Career Of A Troublesome Word, gives an example of the damage this absolutist approach can take:

I did not like it when that documentary was made about James Baldwin, "I Am Not Your Negro." That's not what he said. He said, I am not your nigger. He was very clear. He - that wasn't just a cavalier thing. He had a purpose for how we use the term. And I don't - I think this bowdlerization, I think that this cover-up, this denial, is bad. It is tampering with our cultural history, and we need to - we need realism. We need to be very attentive to facts, even facts that we view as ugly.

It’s not a bad thing that slurs are the new obscenity. It points to positive changes happening in our society. However, focus on obscene words will always detract from discussions of obscene concepts.

The modern day “tarnation,” I think, is something like “g*psy”: a word thinly obscured but signifying the same concept as the one it’s replacing. That asterisk does not give you a free pass to discuss the word lightly, but it gives that sense. If you’re going to talk about the word “gypsy,” I think you should use the word. I think that’s how we make sure we’re talking about it in a serious and conscientious manner. To force you to stop and think, “Have I put enough thought into what I’m saying to warrant using that word?”

Norms around obscene words do not last. In a century or two, people will probably regard the word “faggot” the way we think about “damn” today. It sounds awful to us today, but normalizing “Goddamn it” would have seemed awful to most decent people during the first age. That’s the nature of obscenity: its power exists only in the context of current culture. Language is a tool to convey ideas, but it can’t control them. You can’t kill an idea by killing a word. We need to have conversations about these words so when the fourth age of obscenity comes, the conceptual changes of the third are meaningful and enduring, even as concern for the words wanes.

#language #linguistics #sociolinguistics #slurs #obscenity

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stoopid-turtle · 9 months

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Aug Summary + Takeaways

Okay, straight off the bat, the timeline for this month is a mess. So many conflicting dates for just about everything. I tried real hard, but I hit my limit as a non-Chinese speaker. So consider this all to be sketchy.

Let's hit on the significant moments point by point:

DD's birthday!

There's some disagreement as to what happened on 8/4 vs what happened on 8/5. As near as I can tell, we get them filming the rooftop fight, the bug chase, the stargazing, and the birthday countdown on 8/4.

On 8/5, DD does the livestream during a lunch (?). GG is filming solo scenes for a bit, then DD joins him when they fight off the Wen owl. Then they do the post-timeskip market scene. This also includes a moment with dd being a chaotic gremlin while gg is being serious and working thru a scene with the juniors. After finishing his takes, gg walks up to dd with what I called the "indulgent dom" face. It's the only way I know how to describe it, but y'all have seen this expression before. It's identical to the expression he had when DD bratted at the Nanjing fanmeet by refusing to make a cute face.

(I'm not making any particular statement about them actually being dom/sub here. Just...some moments have big dom energy and this is one of them)

(also, since @deadeyellentigh expressed an interest in gg's codeswitching, this is also another instance when it pops up)

After filming ends for the day, they do the cake and gift exchange.

They are presumably in a relationship at this point, so odds are, there were other celebrations in private that we weren't privy to.

All the fucking interviews

Excuse my language, but within a 3-day timespan, there are night/day interviews with yb and dd, gg, and ggdd. JL has a couple interview/measuring sessions with them individually. There's an on-set interview when they're sitting in front of a rockface of some sort. Then the Sina interviews and the interview on the white couch and the outdoors interview with gg calling DD gouzaizai and oh God why are there so many fucking interview clips????

The yb interviews seem to take place around filming close-ups for some fight scenes on 8/7. GG will interview with yb while dd does some takes, then they switch. There's another nighttime yb interview clip on 8/8 with both gg and dd. And then on 8/9, yb does the awkward waist-measuring interview.

Why does yb interview them on 3 different days? Or should this all be on one day? The latter seems more likely, but the sources I'm using have varying dates for varying clips from these interviews so *throws hands up in air*

Ok, back to ggdd

Sorry, I just wanted to rant convey how shaky the timeline is this month. The Weibo timeline I was checking against doesn't have anything for Aug, so I was working with fewer sources.

The first part of the month seems good for them. They're playful, clearly having fun, but also just glomming together and chatting between themselves between takes.

The 8/10 exchange with jc is interesting to me. Again, I'm basing my understanding from a YouTube video I've seen, and there's every chance that video is misleading. Just watching the unedited, untranslated clip, it does look as if gg's a little freaked out by something while dd is trying to reassure him, but it's really impossible to know what they're all talking about. There was a lot going on on the set that wasn't related to ggdd, and honestly, I have the impression that their relationship was widely known about. As such, it shouldn't have been something that jc had to discover through a photo. He likely had known about it since the start.

The end approaching

The last week or so leading up to the end of filming is a bit of a roller coaster. On 8/16, they have lots of fun filming fight scenes together. On 8/18, gg sings Sam Smith to dd. I think a lot of what gg busts out singing on set is a little random (sometimes, you just get an earworm), but this is clearly meaningful given the way he's directing it at dd.

So at this point, gg and dd seem to be in a good place. I don't know if they've been discussing what happens after filming. I don't know if they've already agreed to try to make it work. Maybe they're avoiding the topic. Maybe they're not on the same page. But on 8/18, gg and dd seem ok.

Then in 8/20, we get the cloud recess library scene. This scene has a lot of fun clips, but I've also seen another clip from that day (unless there's another cloud recess library scene day that I'm missing -- a very real possibility). I've only seen this clip translated once, so I don't know how accurate it is.

But it's a clip of an extended pretzeling session between the two. I've seen shorter clips of the pretzeling, but I'd never seen the full scene or context until I randomly came across it one day.

The scene starts with gg angry about something dd said about him. DD asks gg if he's gonna add him back on WeChat. gg says after filming, they'll go their own ways and won't have to see each other. DD asks how he could say something like that. (Sidenote: I will not link to this clip. Please do not ask.)

It's honestly uncomfortable to watch, and if the translation is accurate, then it's obvious the bts caught a couple argument. I have some reservations about it bc, honestly, the other clips at the library don't have any hint of tension between them. Was this something that happened after? At the end of the clip, they do walk past the camera as if leaving the set.

There's reasons to consider the clip with some skepticism. First, the translation I saw could be wrong. I usually like to see 2 different translator's versions before I consider a clip really solid. I've only ever seen one on this. Otoh, even without the translation, both gg and dd seem upset in the clip and the atmosphere isn't playful. (Made even weirder by the fact that it was included in one of those "cute ggdd moments" compilations. Y'all, I got thoughts on some of the stuff on Youtube). Still, maybe the scene isn't as ugly as that translation makes it appear.

Another possibility goes back to what I've been saying from the beginning: we are seeing so little of what actually happened. 20 minutes out of a day of filming. Maybe 30. On rare cases, an hour. Maybe gg and dd made up after that clip but before filming ended. Maybe they went through 5 breakup/makeup cycles before filming ended. Maybe the scene didn't happen on 8/20 at all. Maybe there's stuff happening around the scene that changes the context completely.

So take it or leave it. I'm inclined to think the translation is relatively accurate. If the translator wanted a cute ggdd moment, they could have tried a lot harder. That's the opposite of a cute moment. And while the tone of this clip may contrast with the clips around it, I also don't think that's necessarily a strong point against it.

As an example, the next day, 8/21, when gg is sick, they seem okay but there's every possibility they are being cautious about their arguments in front of the camera. If they're like me and my wife, they're able to put an argument on hold to attend to whatever responsibility they have. My wife and I had an argument right before hosting some friends for dinner. We just...pretended through the whole night. Then, once people were gone, we finished up the fight.

DD and gg are actors, and gg, especially, is good at schooling his expression. We know dd routinely lies during interviews with ease. They're both able to put on a guise of being okay. As usual, we're seeing such a small slice of what's going on with these clips. There is every possibility this was an ongoing argument between them that they kept from the camera (excepting that one scene in the library).

At the same time, gg was singing Sam Smith to dd just 2 days before the argument. What happened between 8/18 and 8/20 to create such tension? The only clip I have from 8/19 is of gg filming solo. Something happened that led gg to attempt to cut contact with dd.

On the other hand, some couples are just a bit volatile, with a lot of back and forth happening within a short amount of time. This can especially be the case with young couples where both people have strong personalities.

The next days after 8/20 are the final shots and then the wrap events. They seem fine, for the most part. However, there is the moment on the steps at wrap when they hit each other.

@bzhitstruth noted that the fight here is real, and I tend to agree. Dd was notably late to the big cast and crew photo. Then, during the line up, dd said something when it finished that seemed to upset gg. That's when gg reaches behind the person between them to whap dd and dd whaps back. Everybody laughs, but gg and dd's expressions are serious rather than playful.

After, dd looks like he's gonna follow gg down the stairs but he stops himself and just lingers. Then they're both called over for another photo. GG's pretty cheerful and bouncy but DD barely smiles.

I'd been skeptical of the rumor that gg changed his WeChat or something to break off contact with dd after filming, but after going through these clips, I think it's at least plausible. GG may not have changed his number, but he apparently unfriended (or whatever) dd around 8/20.

It really seems as if gg was prepared to break things off, against dd's wishes. Even when considering the whole "gg needed a break after filming" possibility, I didn't think their separation was so acrimonious, but it looks like it was pretty dramatic and oftentimes hostile.

But there's ambiguity here. There's room for disagreement. I'm leaning towards the "bad breakup" interpretation, but there's room for other takes, and if you think that things left off on a more hopeful note, I wouldn't blame you. We know they eventually got together, after all.

The after

On that note, our knowledge of the after is even sketchier. We know gg went on a trip to Japan and dd wore the "I miss you" hat. If gg did delete dd as a contact on WeChat, then the hat was really dd's only way to communicate with him.

Next we know, dd visited gg for his birthday on 10/5. I have a litany of questions for this.

Who contacted who and how after the Japan trip? Did gg reopen chat with dd? Or did dd find some other way to contact gg? Had gg made up his mind during the Japan trip to get into a relationship or was that a decision he made after?

Of course, without that tell-all book, we have no way of knowing any of this. That's what fanfic is for, I guess.

But it's clear that they're together in 2019. It's at that point that dd introduces gg to his DDU brothers, and then they start doing the promo events that include so many interview moments that hint at a relationship between them. So while the last we see of them during filming was tense and unresolved, we know they both chose to work things out and make a proper go of a relationship. Well, dd seemed to never waver on that, so it was up to gg to make that commitment. He clearly did.

I kinda hate to leave this project off on such a downer, tbh. I hadn't really thought through the possibility that they had an ugly break-up at the end of filming, but there we are. I feel bad for them that their early-relationship dirty laundry is out there for the world to see. I'd hate for some of my early relationship dramatics to be caught on camera. (Thus why I will not share the clip of them arguing)

So let's end on an up-note. We know they're together even now. We have a new LRLG rumor just last week. We can see they've both committed to and grown into their relationship.

The latest rumor is long and is full of sweet moments, but there's also a bit where dd talks about his relationship with his staff. I think we can take the current state of their relationship from what he says:

"Date in a way that makes you comfortable. Work through the differences and it will be okay."

Assuming this isn't all fake. Cause it probably is.

I'm gonna do an overall summary + takeaway from this project for some stuff that didn't fit into any individual month (professionalism on set, possibility of devil's timeline, "it's complicated" relationship status, etc). Probably this weekend. Watch this space.

#bjyx #yizhan #the timeline of ggdd love yue #prezzie for turtles

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princessnijireiki · 8 months

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Been thinking a lot about how something as simple as codeswitching & vocal training or accent work unsettles people deeply in all kinds of ways...

Like they will get really weirdly angry if a person's accent shifts around, and they want to know which one is the "real" one; and then will also get mad if they can't consume other people's voices as lesser entertainment, like when Constance Wu declined to perform the Taiwanese accent she developed for Fresh Off the Boat on demand, saying, "it's not a party trick."

They get mad if you class pass & then slip. They get mad if they feel entitled to all aspects & voices of you. They demand a "real voice" from gay people, transgender people, they say, almost disappointed and affronted, "wow, your English is so good," to those they have internally classified as the eternal foreigner, they condescendingly remark, "oh, you speak so well, you're so... articulate," to those they have deemed their racial, social, economic, intellectual lessers.

And they don't ever examine that anger. I can modulate my voice into a distinctly pronounced Standard American English accent, like I was taught as a child, with some effort; when I drop the mask, when I am agitated or excitable, the Bronx leaps to the front of my mouth, secondhand from my loud father, an accent I very much associate with that kind of loudness, explosiveness, the voice of anger; when I'm tired, I sound more Southern, more like my other family members, and when I am truly tired and drained, it's a 50/50 on if you get a truly unmodulated low and quiet speaking voice, or a canned customer service voice response on autopilot, a full octave higher in pitch. All of those are real, all of those are true, none of them are "put on." Some are masks. All are social performance.

That's truly where the anger lies. The defiance of imposition of the social role. The refusal to play an assigned part. The fact that people exist who know how to do the "party trick," but it's never for your entertainment, and often exists beyond others' capacity to see the fact that flipping through the radio stations has always been an option, and the acts of both tuning and refusing to tune to another channel, as an internal choice, enrages them. But so, too, does the idea that what occurs around us grows and changes and grows and changes us. For the voices we can't change, but who refuse to align with outside classification or judgement, they hate that, too— and they hate the voices that also change unbidden, that mold into a new authenticity, which refuse to be labeled false for changing.

They find it appalling, actually, that those of us who color outside the lines even know the lines (which they can't or won't see themselves) are there to begin with.

And really, what it speaks to is their own paranoia; their own devastating fear that the world isn't following their rules, and in fact, isn't even playing their little game, and never was— and that without those rules, and roles, they don't know where they stand. They don't know if their role can also be changed, if they are no longer in control, terrified of being perceived as anything but at the helm via voice & language. And without that, without the passively accepted externally imposed labels, structures, systems of classifying themselves and others, they don't even know who they are. They are angry because they truly are afraid, and react to their fear like animals afraid of the dark.

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cyanide-latte · 3 months

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10, 12, and 58 for Chrysanthos and Copper, please ^^

Oooohhhhh, very interesting choices! These forced me to think quite a bit.

10: What fact do they excitedly tell everyone about at every opportunity?

Copper: "Did you know there are six stages of rigor mortis, and it begins to set in about two hours after death, and then it peaks at 12 hours and stays that way for close to 2 days?" Copper this is not something most people find fascinating and you might need to question why Stone taught you this, please seek therapy.

Chrysanthos: "Coolest thing I ever learned when I was adjusting to being an Octavinelle freshman was that the largest waterfalls are actually underwater."

12: What’s something that makes them laugh every single time? Be specific!

Copper: If Twisted Wonderland has a Vine equivalent, then there's got to be an equivalent to this Vine that would always make him laugh. He thinks it gets funnier the longer it loops.

Chrysanthos: Heckling the Headmage and seeing Crowley lose his damn smile (disrespectfully, get rekt, old man.) Anytime Idia tries to brag/lie about having a lot of friends (come ON, little cuz, just be real.) Ortho attempting to use different voice mods to sound serious and get past whatever language locks he's got built into himself (let him be allowed to swear, it'll be even funnier.) Azul attempting to play social power chess with him (you're playing chess kiddo, but my game is 3-card monte and you're not watching the hands.)

58: How many hobbies have they attempted to have over their lifetime? Is there a common theme?

Copper: Poor kid hasn't had much opportunity to develop or take up hobbies prior to enrolling at NRC. However! He loves storytelling (he used to do this for himself as a kid, and since I headcanon that the Scarabia dorm does regularly do story circles as a little nod to the 1001 tales, after some initial hesitation Copper really latches onto this and it's part of how he builds and maintains friendships in that dorm.) He also really loves learning languages, even if he has a somewhat casual approach and treats it like a hobby. In the TWST equivalent of New Orleans and the nearby bayous, he picked up enough that he can understand most of what Rook says when he speaks French. Copper also subconsciously will codeswitch when speaking with Sam if Sam codeswitches around him. When Sam points this out and talks with him, he encourages Copper to continue looking into learning languages, so he does.

Chrysanthos: He's pretty mum about what his hobbies were as a little kid. When he hit adolescence, everything was blastcycle racing and urban exploration. These days he still works on blastcycles as a way to kill time (his own doesn't see much use anymore but that might change as @ramshacklerumble 's Gia slowly warms up to him and he tells them to take the cycle for a spin,) drops in on NRC for visits when he feels like it and can fabricate an excuse, collects the soundtracks of musicals, lectures troublemakers on how to get away with urban exploration, and generally loves pissing off Crowley in any little way he possibly can.

Thanks for the ask!

Taglist: @inmateofthemind @tixdixl @ramshacklerumble @simons-twsted-children @blithesharem @rainesol @theleechyskrunkly (lmk if you want to be added to the taglist!)

#TWST OCs #Copper Benoit #Chrysanthos Shroud #my OCs #answered asks #Cyanide speaks

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