#it's the heteronormativity and amatonormativity of it all :

[shmaroace]

amatonormativity isn't something that affects only aro people. it affects all people, aspec or not, queer or not. you can be cishetallo and still be affected by amatonormativity because you're told that being single is bad. amatonormativity isn't a new queer buzzword made for a select few people, it's an actual societal assumption that affects everyone.

#literally fuck amatonormativity all my homies hate amatonormativity #it assumes everyone should have a monogamous long-term relationship #even cishetallo people sometimes don't want monogamous long-term relationships it's not just an aro thing #also when it's combined with heteronormativity and allonormativity well goddamn #aro #aromantic #arospec #ace #asexual #acespec #aroace #aspec #amatonormativity #queer #lgbtq #fuck amatonormativity #1k #2k #3k #4k #5k

[multidimensional-trashcan]

next time i have to explain amatonormativity and heteronormativity to someone im just gonna make them read the original sherlock holmes case with irene adler and show them adaptations like the Guy Ritchie movies and BBC Sherlock 'cause that's the perfect example right there.

#bbc sherlock #ritchie holmes #sherlock holmes #irene adler #sherlock holmes canonically has no interest in women at all not even in irene adler #amatonormativity #heteronormativity #asexual #aromantic #or maybe #gay #my post

[scrumptiousfoxglitter]

In 7th grade our math teacher told us a story of 7th graders a few years back getting into a fistfight after arguing and when he told us one was a girl and the other was a guy one of my classmates shouted "Ooh, she was flirting 😲" and... It's just so interesting to me how some allos hear two kids getting expelled from fistfighting and come to the conclusion of there being romantic tensions between them.

#it's not all allos; but the fact that this was the conclusion a 13 year old came to is just so wrong #aromantic #asexual #aroace #amatonormativity #fuck amatonormativity #heteronormativity

[lloydfrontera]

tfw when you write an entire novel with two protagonists that spent the entire plot getting closer to each other, becoming best friends and eventually both of them deciding they would rather die than allow the other to not live a long, fulfilling life, their friendship carrying most of the emotional weight of the entire plot and the emotional climax being one of them sacrificing his life so the other can live and then the other crossing literal universes to find him, a tearful smile in his face as he confesses how much he missed him. which is the scene you wanted to write and show the most because, again, this is the pay off to the slowburn you've been writing in the entire novel and what everything has been building up to since the very first chapter. and then you end the novel by having them share a smile, finally confident they'll be able to have a happy future.

but you also just gotta have one of them marry offscreen because everyone knows you can't be happy if you're not in a het marriage with kids lmao it's whatever it's okay i'm fiNE-

#i talk a lot <3 #the greatest estate developer #lloyd frontera #this post was going to be so much more bitter this is me being nice akjshdkahdk #i just....... i'm sad alsjdsjkal #and i don't think i'm wrong to be. like i'm not disapointed bc i don't actually expected lloyd and javier to be together #i'm not that optimistic lmao #but i did have the hope tged would have no romance #because lloyd and javier were already doing so much in the emotional and relationship development front of the plot #that adding romance just feels. awkward. like an aside. an add-on that affects none of the plot and is just there to make sure #no one accidentally gets confused and think those two are in love #and guess what! most of the romance does happen in literal side stories! literally an add-on that does nothing for the plot! i hate it! #it's the heteronormativity and amatonormativity of it all :/ #do i think it would've been cool for llojavi to be canon? absolutely! do i think it was necessary for the plot? nope! #they were already perfect the way they are! their friendship is the core of the entire plot and their relationship to each other #is what ultimately moves much of the plot in the latter half! #which is the way relationships should work in fiction! not just have them for the sake of having them! #lloyd didn't need a romantic subplot because the plot was already working perfectly without it! #also what's the point of having a character constantly think about what their idea of 'happy life' is if you're not going to challenge it #it's about the hero's journey of it all!!! #i have things to say dang it! #javier asrahan #tged

[batri-jopa]

In heteronormative narrations a single-female-friend character is most often depicted as a threat for the couple/marriage. Threat for the girl that is. Like: beware, this bitch is single! so "obviously" her main goal is to steal your guy because, you know, she's a desperate selfish erotically-starving bitch...

Well, I can't speak for other single ladies but in the most couples I know - if I were to brake the relationship I'd rather run away with the girl🤷

#I'm aro and ace. but girls are just funnier #I like my male cousins but honestly? every each one of them I would give away for his wife #my cousins' wives are not ''related'' to me and yet they all feel more like family to me than my male cousins ever did #not to mention I secretly wish my best friend could finally break free from the toxic relationship #that she have with her lazy underappreciating partner #maybe then we could meet more often... or even live closer to each other again #I certainly don't hate guys! though if having one on my own - for the most part of the day I would not know what to do with him🤔 #unless he would be enormously talkative. like an average girl😜 #relationship goals #single #aroace #aromantic #asexual #heteronormativity #amatonormativity #relationship #''why would I want your man? I don't know why you want your man'' #EDIT: okey there's also my female-cousin's boyfriend. I love to talk with him #he's quite xenophobic conspiracy theories fan and YET he's intelligent enough to have a fascinating conversation with #but I also like to talk about movies with my best friend's boyfriend. even though I think she should get rid of him #no offence man - our shared interests don't change the fact that just don't deserve her at all👎

[transingthoseformers]

To me, ships are like rocks in fifth grade recess

I can stack them as high as I want

#shipping #poly ship #look i love defying heteronormative amatonormativity. shipping is a sandbox to explore stuff after all so why not #me when i somehow ended up shipping megopstriknut😅

[all-seeing-ifer]

putting together that list of good queer Jo March posts naturally got me thinking about lw 2019 again and. ok, this isn’t going to be a Me Making Smart Points Post as much as just me indulging in my favourite activity of trying to articulate my own tastes to myself so don’t expect me to say anything particularly coherent. basically i’ve just been mulling over lw 2019 and the ok! revival and why it is that these two things in particularly resonated with me On An Aro Level in a way that most media never does. and I think it really is just that like. they’re both adaptations/retellings of texts that have these very capital T Traditional Happy Endings where the happy ending is marriage and all the men and women must be paired up, and both these new versions are, in some sense, engaging with that aspect very directly. and also, importantly to me, they both end up treating that aspect of their source material in the most cynical way imaginable lmao. it’s just that they end up still being wildly different approaches bc in lw 2019 this manifests as the film very firmly taking the stance of “this whole ideal is complete bullshit and you should just do whatever” whereas the ok revival engages with it through this mildly pretentious tragic horror-infused The Narrative Is A Prison From Which You Cannot Escape approach which. i mean it’s obviously way less hopeful (like love and light to daniel fish but maybe it’s a good thing I never got into the revival back in 2019 when it went vaguely mainstream i do not think i was in a place in my life where it would have done productive things to my psyche), BUT it does also manage to be deranged in a way which appeals to my current Tragedy Enjoyer Girlie sensibilities.

#also like. obligatory disclaimer that both works have a lot more going on than just #being about heteronormativity/amatonormativity #and in both cases i think it's dubious how much of that commentary is even intentional #HOWEVER it is still. an aspect of both that is worth discussing and idk i feel like it ties into their broader themes in many ways #also here's a realisation i had today #i rlly do think the reason sexy oklahoma has ended up attracting a queer audience #aside from the bi vibes of it all #is that daniel fish realised two important things #1) oklahoma is truly the original Are The Straights Ok musical #and 2) within the context of oklahoma the answer to that question is a resounding NO #oh and also i gotta talk about this stuff instead of the broader themes. #if i were to talk about like. retributive justice in ok19 that would require me to say a lot of words about jud #and that would require me to abandon what little remains of my dignity #peace and love <3 #ifer rambles #and i really do mean rambles this time

[fiercestpurpose]

people are so comfortable hating on ace and polyam people and it’s like. sorry for not consulting you in how we organize and understand our own relationships but have you considered that it’s none of your fucking business

#m.txt #idk it’s like. i just feel like queerness is about a move away from amatonormativity and a move towards being more accepting #of different desires and relationships like sorry for not all adhering to an oppressive structure designed within a heteronormative framewor #this is not super coherent or anything i’m just mad

[sarcasrnspasrn]

“people are still using allo in 2022″ yeah because it’s a word with a very specific purpose. just because you can’t understand the ways in which amatonormativity from allos can damage ace people doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and doesn’t make the language used to describe these phenomena any less important. xoxo get well soon

#ylimespam #kind of been xtra peeved abt this sort of talk ever since someone very close to me confided in being ace-spec #and how it made them feel like they were broken because they were missing this part that 'everyone else' experienced #like!!!! that fucking sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #and like. if you can understand why ppl use cis. #surely you can understand why ppl use allo. #it's the exact same principle. fucking hell #inb4 amatonormativity and heteronormativity are not the same at all. so no im not using that instead

[love-too]

Every time I hear people being shocked and going "How? You've never been asked on a date?" I like to turn it around to "Have you ever asked someone out on a date?"

Because, I mean, statistically if everyone has to be asked out everyone has to ask

#anyway they never do because of amatonormativity and heteronormativity #(because yes #I'm sorry #but this happens mostly with girls) #And they get all defensive like #'well you never asked someone out either' #completely missing the whole point because I don't fucking want to go out in the first place #anyway #aromantic #asexual #aroace #roba mia

[phe-purple-parade]

Just remembered when my hs lit studies class read Hamlet (that class was so fun, always had a laugh with those guys) and we chose roles 'cause we wanted to like act it out during readings (resulting in some hilarious moments, like when I had to drag my classmate 'off stage' after mime-stabbing him through a blanket another classmate held up)

Anyway I read for Hamlet because that's so gender (and no one else really wanted to lol) and I lowkey liked the girl who happened to be reading for Horatio (it wasn't a crush but I uhhh yk thought she looked good n was cool like she read Jane Austen and did her research project on how Audrey Hepburn influenced fashion n stuff and just,, I think if she had ever asked me out I wouldn't've declined but ultimately it was aesthetic attraction more than anything else. And she was v likely straight)

And so I couldn't really suggest that like,, Hamlet and Horatio are perhaps gay for eo or anything 'cause I wouldn't've wanted to make her uncomfortable or anything

Earlier that year almost our entire class agreed that Dorian and Basil from The Picture of Dorian Gray were gay and she was legit like 'oh, I didn't think of that' like this girl was surprised?? We're all here either outright saying 'they're gay harold' or generally agreeing but she just,, did not consider the gay subtext afjahdkfkl (our teacher was trying to palm it off with an alternative interpretation and like yeah screw amatonormativity and all but,, the context, man. Oscar 'The Homosexual' Wilde was definitely queercoding his characters during the repressed as hell Victorian era ok?? But this was a Christian school so.. but like. Legit one of the classmates I sat with wrote a Dorian x Basil fixitfic I can't). And I basically ended up saying to her 'your interpretation is totally valid.. but you're wrong' nOT THAT I MEANT TO SAY IT LIKE THAT BUT IT KINDA CAME OUT THAT WAY AND EVERYONE REACTED LIKE I'D SPAT A SICK BURN OOF NO GUYS I'M JUST NEURODIVERGENT

So yeah while I wished I was cool n confident enough, there was no way I could've made a flirty joke about Hamlet and Horatio with this girl (even tho I generally wanted to point it out)

#this girl read tsoa but didn't realise Basil and Dorian or Hamlet and Horatio might be a bit queer like girl what?? #anyway #in an alternate universe i would've talked to her more. probs still wouldn't've flirted but I would've tried to make friends w her or smth #i think most of the class understood that h&h were a lil fruity tho like we all saw what we saw #it's not like we even read most of the scenes w hamlet and horatio #hh idk what I'm doing here i gotta do stuff #also disclaimer im not saying they MUST be gay again i would like to punch amatonormativity in the gut. but like also I don't wanna be #insisting that they're straight 'cause i would also like to kick heteronormativity in the teeth #they can be both. they can be both queer and platonic best buds. both interpretations can coexist. but when ppl are trying to tell u it's #completely straight and trying to push ur queer interpretation aside?? no i'm allowed to assert an interpretation differing from yours #i wasn't out in hs tho so it's not like i had the backing of 'im queer and i want to interpret these characters as queer so let me do that' #although ppl did ask friends of mine if im gay which is weird like just ask me?? the answers still no (and it's true - I'm not gay) but if #if u don't already know whether im queer or not. perhaps u weren't supposed to know #high school was an interesting time oof #anyway oh my gosh i need to get off tumblr and do things and then go to bed!

[arowitharrows]

I wish a very happy aromantic spectrum awareness week to everyone on the aromantic spectrum! To me aromanticism is an orientation, a life philosophy, a political stance and a big fuck you to heteronormative and amatonormative society and I think that's beautiful! So shout-out to all aros, your experiences are worth sharing and your aromanticism should be celebrated!

#mai rambles #aromantic #actually aromantic #asaw 2024 #asaw #aromantic spectrum awareness week

[seductivejellyfish]

gonna take a bit of a swing at a hornets nest here but: whenever you have in mind to write a post about, or you read a post about, "amatonormativity," I really suggest stepping back and asking "how would this post change if I replaced 'amatonormativity' with 'heteronormativity'/'compulsive heterosexuality'? Are the societal pressures or privileges described actually applied to homosexual relationships at all, or in a way resembling how they are applied to heterosexual relationships?"

A lot of us live in relatively wonderful pockets of the world where it can be easy to feel like gay relationships are thought about in a way that is close to equivalent to straight ones, but the fact is I have never once seen any discussion of 'amatonormativity' that was not a discussion of heteronormativity. It is true that there are immense societal pressures that seem to enforce 'romantic' relationships, but in reality they enforce heterosexual relationships of a particular sort, and we flatted our ability for meaningful critique when we act like the forces at work are a societal prioritization of romantic love, and not the patriarchal structure of compulsory heterosexuality and all its implications for maintenance of the patriarchy.

#original #yeah maybe your friends and people in your immediate social circles #seem to prioritize 'romance' over other forms of relationships #but it is not out of some societal idea of the primacy of romantic love emerging in some kind of genderless vacuum #when gay relationships do end up grouped in with straight ones its just a bit of conditional assimilation towards ultimately still exstant #and harmful systems #the coining of a new term implies that it is possible or even ideal to construe of and fight 'amatonormativity' outside of the context of #heteronormativity #and mayyyybe some day it will be #but it is not today #and i doubt it will ever be because i think if we ever reach a point where #we actually manage to deconstruct compulsory heterosexuality #it will not be replaced with the prioritization of romantic relationships as a whole #rather you will see what you already see in a lot of very queer spaces which is the reexamination of relationships as a whole #and the broader acceptance of all different modes of human connection

[dawningfairytale]

there are two wolves within me. one wants to write original media with canon queer relationships (particularly sapphic ones For Some Reason). the other wants to write original media with absolutely no romance subplots and it’s not addressed.

they don’t even have to both be queer that doesn’t matter what matters is the avoidance of heteronormativity and amatonormativity

#both would have ace aro and/or aroace characters #bc the amatonormativity in media is sickening #and i think that sure the heteronormativity was a bitch but doesn’t mean that a bunch of romances of all types would be better #and i know shipping is fun. i love shipping!!! #but when i was a kid i thought id have dated someone by the end of high school #i havent though. and that’s fine!!! normal even!!! #but i assumed that would be An Issue when really i wasn’t ready for romance #and ofc people get into relationships when they aren’t ready all the time #but it’d be nice to see characters. not doing that. #who are satisfied with friendship or family or their careers #(also the ‘career woman who can have it all’ FUCK that they can have it all without a family) #but there aren’t a lot of queer characters i can relate to #basically all of them came out this year (nick heartstopper and ashlyn hsmtmts) #and for fucking get about queer christian characters #i just want one thing without a romance subplot #i also want one thing with a sapphic christian character #preferably light hearted and hopeful regardless of whether or not that’s my experience #this could play in to the bitchless bi character #but yeah idk #allo people aren’t always in relationships. aro people shouldn’t be erased in media. #looking at you riverdale #both can be happy single #and this should be portrayed

[codthefishgod]

To all the people who think aspec people aren't LGBTQIA+ because we aren't "discriminated against enough", here's a lovely list of reasons why you need to educate yourself:

- We suffer from dehumanisation, people actively devaluing or even erasing our humanity because of our identities (The voidpunk community is heavily supported by aspec people because of this)

- We suffer from self hatred due to feeling as if and being told we are broken, that no one can be happy unless they're in a romantic/sexual relationship, because of allonormativity and amatonormativity that actively damages our mental health

- Amatonormativity shapes laws that put us at an active disadvantage, such as giving married people financial and legal benefits

- Aspec people have been victims of conversion therapy, correctional rape, a lower quality of life, and other effects of being a marginalised and oppressed group

- We suffer from our identities being pathologised and deal with medical stigma because of this, causing many of us to feel unwelcome in and even avoid health care settings

- We suffer from our identities being erased, which can range from people completely denying our existence and people equating it to celibacy, to an almost complete absence of aspec representation in the media (It's been getting better lately, especially for alloaces and aroaces, but I have yet to ever see a canon aroallo character, and representation for those on the spectrum rather than in the extremes is often ignored)

- YOU are creating a hateful, exclusionary space in a community meant to be about inclusion. The same thing that happens to us happens to bisexual people, to polyamorous people, and other identities that are "disputed." In a community meant to be about rejecting the norm, YOU are shoving us out because we don't fit the norm of being LGBTQIA+. Because we're not enough like you.

These are only a few examples of aphobia that people like me deal with. Discrimination and oppression against aspec people stretches far beyond this.

But even if it didn't, it is disrespectful and harmful to everyone involved to gatekeep membership in the community based on oppression and discrimination.

We aren't LGBTQIA+ because we experience oppression. We are LGBTQIA+ because our existence alone goes against heteronormativity and other societal norms forced upon us.

#lgbtq #lgbtqia #aromantic #asexual #aromanticism #asexuality #ace #aro #aspec rights #aspec #aro pride #aroace #arospec #ace pride #ace rights #acespec #aro rights #this has been a psa #psa #information #important psa #aroaceprideispridetoo #we are enough #allonormativity #amatonormativity #discrimination #aspec discrimination #oppression #inclusion #educate yourself

[ihateliterature]

Not many people know what amatonormativity is and I think that's a shame because it's a very useful concept to keep in mind

So let's do a crash course

What is amatonormativity?

A term coined by Elisabeth Brake in 2011 in her book Minimizing Marriage: Marriage, Morality, and the Law, used to explain the societal assumption that all people seek romantic relationships in the form of long term monogamous relationships. Easy, right? No

Nothing in life is so easy, especially not something like an idea taken as absolute truth by most people for as long as we can remember

Let's take it from the top

Amatonormativity intersects with cisnormativity, heteronormativity and patriarchal gender norms. What amatonormativity tells us is that EVERYONE wants and needs a committed heterosexual monogamous romantic relationship that usually ends in children. The American 50's ideal is a good example of that

The reason why the other terms I mentioned are not enough to talk about these issues is that they don't target specifically the nature of relationships under patriarchy. They are obviously talked about (especially in discussions about gender norms) but they are not the focus. There is also the problem that many don't recognize the insistence of love as a measure for one's humanity as a problem at all

We live in a world where love is considered to be the very proof of humanity. This is obviously a problem because there is no universally accepted definition of love outside amatonormativity, which claims that only romantic and familial love exist. There is no acknowledgement of alternative ways to love or of humanity existing apart from this concept

What is love? This is what I want to ask you, and I want everyone to think seriously about this question. Is it the idea of a soulmate, of finding your "other half"? Because then comes the 'why?'. Why should anyone find their 'other half'? Why can't people be whole on their own? Is there any weight to this idea at all?

But wait! Some will say! That's not all there is to love. Love is the affection and care you hold for other people. And that is a fair answer. But now I want to ask you, why should that be the measure for someone's humanity?

This conversation goes in circles. Philosophers have tried to find a way to define humanity since Ancient Greece and probably longer, and I'm not here to attempt to answer this question

But there is another question I can answer: why is it important? Why is amatonormativity and being aware of it important? Several reasons. Not only does it affect the lives of aspecs, polyamorous people, childfree and infertile people by making them feel less human for not participating in it's rituals, it also implicitly supports cisnormativity and heteronormativity

The model proposed by amatonormativity is ripe for exploitation, manipulation and abuse. It cuts off people's support networks by devaluing all other kinds of connections, it keeps people from leaving abusive relationships by eliminating all kinds of alternatives to happiness and fulfillment, it makes people enter relationships they don't want because it makes it seem like there is no other alternative, it blinds people to potential or ongoing abuse because it makes us believe that love can only be good and pure

Amatonormativity is often talked about in aspec and polyamorous spaces, but many others are unaware of its influence, and I think this is a mistake and another example of amatonormativity (blinding people to the flaws and alternatives to the ideal it proposes is another way amatonormativity works). And this is a shame, because the queer and feminist movements (along with all the other progressive movements) can't ever attain their goals without addressing amatonormativity

#aromantic #asexual #aspec #arospec #acespec #polyamourous #relationship anarchy #amatonormativity