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firelxdykatara · 3 years

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Katara x Aang :3c

are you trying to get me in trouble

-cough-

no but in all honesty, my genuine feelings about kataang boil down to three major points: 1. it's boring, and does not jive thematically with either of their character arcs, to the point of, 2. actively hampering character development on both sides, and 3. katara deserved better.

points expanded under the cut. (please, if you're a kataang shipper and you see this, just keep scrolling. i've tagged it appropriately and put the bulk under a cut and at this point that's literally all i can do lmfao.)

send me a ship and get my (brutally) honest opinion!

1. It's Boring: This is the most subjective point on the list (I mean, in fairness, it's all subjective, but I have evidence from the show and post-canonical materials to support my other points; this one is just preference), but there's just... nothing to kataang. It's cute (when it's not actively aggravating), and... that's about it. It's not even that I dislike friends-to-lovers as a shipping trope (though it's not my overall preference), because there are a lot of friends-to-lovers couples that I do ship (kanej comes to mind, also will/elizabeth from potc, karolsen from supergirl, romione and hinny from hp, among others), but one thing that I think all of those couples have that kataang doesn't is that both sides of the pairing are teens or adults when they get together, with teen/adult dynamics and issues and stories to deal with, rather than one half being a teenager and the other being literally prepubescent.

And don't get me wrong, I have no problem with age gap ships in general. And as far as atla goes, Katara, at 14, has the same age difference from Zuko (16) as Aang has from her, and it's never stopped me--because both Katara and Zuko are well into puberty when they meet and I have no problem picturing them being into one another and growing together as they enter adulthood. Aang, on the other hand, is a child. And he acts like it. Which wouldn't be a problem, if the show weren't expecting me to believe he is a) ready for a romantic relationship, and b) ready for one specifically with Katara, who is not only older and far more mature but is specifically cast as his caretaker in a very maternal role for the entire show's run.

This show asks me to believe that a teenage girl well into adolescence is going to be attracted to and develop romantic feelings for a pre-adolescent child--and it asks me to believe this while showing us otherwise that Katara's type is actually older boys with fabulous hair and angsty pasts in all of her other potential romantic dalliances--and then enter into a relationship with him, all while ignoring the elephant in the room that is the fact that she was basically acting like his mother for the entire series to that point. (Something that is heavily lampshaded earlier in the very same season.) That just stretches the bounds of credulity way too far for me, especially when there's no evidence that Katara herself would get anything out of their romantic relationship.

There's nothing there for me to sink my teeth into. No delicious development, no parallels where they help each other grow, no internal conflicts that they have to work through together, nothing. Certainly no reason for me to actually believe Katara feels (or would grow to feel) anything for him other than the platonic affection of a caretaker. I can easily believe she loves him dearly, as a friend and quasi-little-brother, but I just can't see that developing naturally into romantic love--not the way it's presented in the show.

And even if they did manage to at least make the development of Katara's feelings believable, unless they changed something fundamental about the nature of their relationship, it'd still be boring, so.

2. It Actively Hampers Their Character Development--On Both Sides: I've written before (extensively lol im so sorry) about how kataang is actively detrimental to Katara and to Aang. In short (because ye gods this post is already getting long enough), Katara is narratively harmed by being shoved into a relationship that completely ignores her stated feelings--a relationship that had been presented as a one-sided puppylove crush for the vast majority of the series--and it inhibits her growth as a character in ways that become far more obvious in the comics and lok, where the very same creative forces that lead to her beginning a relationship with Aang in the first place reduce her to 'the Avatar's girl' and very little else, all the way through to the end of LoK (where she is a Healer and the Avatar's wife and, again, very little else).

As for Aang:

As to how this relationship is detrimental to Aang (other than the comics and LoK nonsense)? Just take a look at book 2, when he’s trying to learn Earthbending from Toph. Katara constantly coddles him. Much of the time, she’s afraid to be anything other than gentle and understanding with Aang--partly because of her fear that if she pushes him too far, he’ll run away. (Which he does, several times.) But sometimes, what Aang needs to grow is a sharp kick in the slats, which Toph was more than willing to provide--and which worked. Katara was great for teaching Aang to waterbend, but he needed more than that to grow as a person. And he can’t get that while he’s in a relationship with someone who will apologize for getting upset when he was very explicitly neglecting her.

In addition, it is pointed out by Guru Pathik at the end of Book 2 that one of Aang's chakras is blocked by his attachment to Katara. Aang takes this to mean (incorrectly) that he has to stop loving her in order to become fully realized as an Avatar, but this is actually part of the problem--because the issue isn't that he is in love with Katara, it's that he's possessively attached to her. He believes himself entitled to her love in return, rather than selflessly loving someone regardless of whether or not they return that affection. (This is obvious come the EIP episode, where Aang demands to know why he and Katara aren't in a relationship already--because he kissed her without asking [or even checking to see if she'd be ok with kissing him], which he phrases as mutual even though it very much was not, and he gets angry and violates her boundaries when she says that she is confused and doesn't want to think about it right then.)

It is his attachment to Katara--the need for her to return his love, the belief that she will and it is only a matter of time before he gets what he wants--that he was supposed to let go of, not his feelings for her in general. Unfortunately, while he pays lipservice to doing this (far too late for it to be useful--if he'd stayed with the Guru for five more minutes and unlocked his chakra there, that battle would've gone very differently), he almost immediately backtracks on that development come book 3, and there isn't another single whisper of Aang maybe growing up and moving past his one-sided and possessive crush and realizing that even if Katara doesn't feel the same way, it doesn't mean she loves him less or that their friendship is less important.

What really needed to happen, for Aang to grow as a person and become fully realized as an Avatar, was for him to grow up. To realize that his feelings were not of paramount importance, and that even if he was in love with Katara, he was not entitled to her love in return. He should have been able to move past his need for her to love him back, in order to get past that stumbling block, unlock his chakras, and regain the Avatar State in time to face the Firelord. But he didn't. As a result, they had to find some other way to just give him the Avatar State (a well-placed rock) and the means to defeat Ozai without killing him (the deus ex lionturtle) and his entire character arc just fell apart in the third act rather than reaching a satisfying conclusion.

3. Katara Deserved Better: This really ties into how her romantic relationship with Aang hampered her own development, but I'm still bitter enough about it that it gets its own bullet-point. And the biggest single reason I could never ship kataang--the thing that would've turned me off even if there were substance and a halfway decent storyline for them--is the fact that Aang kisses her without her consent (for the second time) in Ember Island Players, Katara gets angry at him and storms off, and then..... she walks out onto the balcony to make out with him.

With nothing to bridge that gap.

It's bad enough that a show aimed at children had a scene where the child protagonist kissed the object of his affections without her consent when she didn't want him to (made explicit by her angry reaction)--and this is absolutely an issue when the show is aimed at children and it may well be the first experience they've had with consent issues portrayed in media--but this moment is never addressed again. Katara just decides--completely off-screen--that she does love him Really and walks out to make out with him in the epilogue. There's no conversation, no apology for violating her boundaries, no discussion of why that was wrong or any indication that Aang understands what he did and why it upset her. They don't have a single one-on-one interaction between that kiss and the epilogue, and the only other time they are on screen together, Aang yells at her and storms off.

So, even leaving the comics and lok aside, Katara deserved much better from her own romantic plotline. In fact, she deserved to have one, rather than simply being the oblivious object of Aang's affections, given a couple moments where she blushes but otherwise remains completely ignorant of his feelings (she looks shocked and upset when he kisses her prior to the invasion, and then she completely forgets that even happened because she's confused as to what Aang is even talking about during EIP until he brings it up; that's not the behavior of a fourteen-year-old girl who was kissed by someone she was developing romantic feelings for), before the epilogue where it becomes clear that she figured all of that out off-screen and had feelings for him after all.

She's a main character, not a side-character written in solely to give one of the mains a love interest. She deserved a romantic plotline of her own. (She could have had one with someone else, with very few changes made to what was actually on-screen prior to the epilogue, but that's another conversation entirely.) She deserved to have her feelings considered at all important by the person she was going to be paired with in the end, rather than having him just assume she felt the same way and then get mad at her for never giving any indication of it when he'd never asked about her feelings to begin with. She deseserved agency in her own romantic narrative, and she just didn't get that with Aang.

So yeah, at the end of the day, my biggest issue with kataang is that it involved doing Katara dirty, and she's my favorite character and she deserved so much better damnit.

#atla #katara #aang salt #kataang salt #anti kataang #atla meta #katara deserved better #salt for ts #ask meme #invincibleweasel #asked

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legobatjoker · 2 years

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controversial opinion (im tempted to say something that will get u #cancelled but i shall toe the line by saying:) zuko cis

ok bcuz he is. he is. to be jokey abt it literally watch anything he does, says, look at the way that man acts. that is a cis gay. to b more real like. even disregarding all of the ways his transition wouldnt be logically possible in canon (and to imply it would be is to have a Woke Fire Nation, Woke Ozai take that im not super into!) bcuz like. u could have an au such that he only transitions post-canon etc theres nothing wrong w it logically; there doesnt have to b at least. BUT THEE THING IS zuzu is a #cisgender who hates himself for being gay and hates his #feminine attributes like his gentleness and compensates w his Cis Man Power of being a complete angry asshole .and his unlearning of sexism is influenced a lot by his bff katara who is strong not bcuz shes One of the Boys (like azula) but as a girl and as someone who is extremely kind. kindness in an unkind world etc. his unlearning of traditional gender norms is influenced a lot by aang who a) was raised in a non-sexist & non-transphobic community, b) is a very sweet, very kind, very gnc boy, c) is trans. (also probably influenced by noteable nb toph but not maybe to the same degree? sokka also needs to work on internalized gender shit while being nb tho so i dont think they so much inform this part of zuzu’s arc as they like. both recognize the ways in which the other is unwell due to Needing To Be A Man. A Son. U know.) anyway the point is that zuko’s a cis boy unlearning transphobia due to his epic trans friends and his own realizations thruout the series that he comes to thru experiencing the world. this has all been said before and been said better or whatever but i like having this extended answer on my blog by me j to show my take. if u like trans zuko bcuz ur trans tho and it makes u happy to think of zuko as trans theres nothing wrong w that ,keep at it champ👍🏻

#the second i rbbed that ask game i was like #oh shosh is gonna send me het katara. so uve surprised me congrats #alsooo adding this in the tags bcuz idk how to say it w/o sounding mean #but like. aus where zuko is trans and sokka is cis.#specifically theyre usually modern au’s idk why #and zuko’s like? very much his Awkwardified Cute Soft Boy self while sokka is like Ahaha. Funny dumb guy who in some cases may even b #insensitive by accident oops! .it just feels to me pretty racially motivated?#(<-thats such fucking like. idk coperate speak. ‘racially motivated’ luv im saying its racist)#like soft east asian trans boy you know… the way its usually written j. is distasteful to me….#THAT SAID obv trans ppl can b gnc? and like ea trans dudes specifically like theres Nothinf wrong w being like a ‘soft boy’ or in any way #gnc .ofc . im not talking ab real ppl who live real lives #im talking ab the way internet ppl write their favorite cute asian fandom boy uwu uwu #might delete these tags laterr hahaha 😳😳#AGAIN THERE R EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE .go write trans zuko dont let me tell u how to live ur life.#castle.answers #mewtuals #IM NOT SAYING TRANS ZUKO IS RACIST just the way its written. often. sigh. there r other reasons i dislike it im not j being like #Asian Men Cant Be Trans 🤬🤬 bcuz. obv. i mean i said trans aang right there but anyway

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strawberrymilkyumyum · 3 years

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Can we also as a whole fandom not ignore the fact that they had a grown woman address katara as zuko's girlfriend more than once, the first time being in season 1. But yet zk's are delusional for even thinking that zuko and katara could have been together because 'cAnOn sAys otHeRwIsE' even tho that's literally in canon too, among many other things

thank you anon!!! it is CANON that they are mistaken for a couple MORE THAN ONCE! (the ember island players) in fact! they knew the zk scene in ba sing se was so romantic or whatever bc they PUT THAT IN THE PLAY! they canonically recognized multiple times that katara and zuko could have been love interests and it was totally possible for them to get together.

some people argue that everything in the play was wrong so clearly they couldn’t be together, when the play is just a different version of the story. yeah, the jokes were bad and they parodied the characters, but only three things about the story really changed in the play, the fact that toph was a man (which was probably bc people didn’t want to admit they were defeated by a young girl), the fact that zhao was the one to capture aang (because they wanted zuko to look like the idiot who couldn’t keep the avatar), and the fact that zutara happened. literally, what would the point have been for the scene if they didn’t think it was plausible.

also when zuko and katara freaked out about what june said, they obviously liked each other. im sorry, but if anyone said that about someone i didn’t like, i would be perfectly calm, but the fact that they got flustered means to me that they liked each other.

if other characters canonically mistake zuko and katara to be a couple, there is basis there, we’re not delusional for thinking they could date.

(also there are popular ships with WAYYYY less canon basis than zutara but are treated fairly, just saying.)

#zutara #zutara meta #zutara rant #zk #strawberry tag #ask

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thirteenfortythreeforty · 3 years

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um no nuance november: atla edition?

this was all over tiktok and ive seen some people do it here so...here we go...some of these are probably hot takes, you have been warned.

most of the fandom seems to forget that katara is a young girl with deep-seated trauma that she never truly dealt with. cut the racism and misogyny. shes not the “token straight,” shes not annoying, shes not technically the “mom friend,” she deserves a better life (and life partner) than she was given in canon.

katara’s comment to sokka during the southern raiders was harsh don’t get me wrong, but it was justified

most of my issues with characters fall on their writing...not the characters themselves if that makes any sense

bakoda should have been canon

why didn’t katara, toph and zuko reunite in korra (they’re literally my three faves i was robbed, plus they all just seem sad...)

mako is hot

if we are talking combat, earth is the strongest element...toph can genuinely just drop a rock on someone and its over

republic city is absolutely unnecessary and frankly, stupid. capitalist propaganda :) why would you american-ize this series? im baffled

i just hope that azula got therapy and some love...her actions were outrageous but as far as we know she was conditioned by ozai to just be a pawn

katoph = best duo (friendship and fighting) in the whole show

katara is not a sister to zuko...that role is for toph

(as much as i love firelord zuko) zuko should have waited at least a few years to actually assume the position but even then i truly think he would hate it and institute a democracy

the humor did not land in for me in lok (list of tried and failed for me is meelo, bumi, bolin, varrick, eska...)

i truly did not feel any strong emotional attachment to any lok character (causing me to be pretty indifferent to most of the entirely new editions to the show)

(i think the large cast did not allow for much development for really anyone, save for korra tenzin and maybe lin?, leaving them all to be pretty two dimensional.)

more rambling under the cut (its more shippy you have been warned...)

the fanon portrayal of aang is a glorified version of the canon (you can criticize your faves!)

aang being a “bad” father in canon fits his (poorly written) character

TAANG IS GENIUS (it makes me like aang more :)

i dont think maiko is healthy...at all (same for bolin and eska and zhu li and varrick) - bottom line: bryke cant write relationships

building on that it felt weird for zuko to change throughout book 3 for him only to revert back to his old life in the finale by staying with mai

sokka and suki are the only valid canon couple

also why is everyone so quick to be “oh suki is bi!!” but so much of this fandom feels the need to say “no, katara is the token straight she can’t be bi...” it seems so silly to say but katara hatred is so normalized in this fandom and it makes me so upset. literally everyone would be fucking dead if it werent for her i love my queen fuck y’all

kanna would not have gone back to pakku

MAILEE BITCHES

why are most zukka shippers women...food for thought

peace by taylor swift is a zutara song...zukkas dont even try to claim that

zutara works...it just seems like antis forget that these two characters (even if it is not explicitly romantic in atla) have such a strong bond. they listen, care, and look out for one another...and bottom line they see each other as equals. (also watch the second half of tsr again...they play off each other and work so well together)

this fandom demonizes zutara shippers for absolutely no reason while completely disregarding actual problematic issues that occur throughout the rest of the fandom

suki in the comics is practically a katara stand in

makorra felt like an attempt to appease the zutara shippers (it failed immensely)

should we love kuvira as much as we do? should we be shipping her with korra...?

in canon it does make sense that sokka could have been suyin’s father, but where did suki go? were they hinting that zuko and suki had izumi, meaning that sokka and suki broke up? but WHY? they were literally perfect with absolutely no complication in canon...tldr: post-atla is so ridiculous

i think this feels salty...and i went on for too long...i needed to get that out...um...

#more incoherent rambling #endless thoughts #um...did i go too far...#possibly #atla #zutara #sukka #zukka salt #katara stan first human second #anti maiko #taang #bby #anti aang #?

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kuchenprince · 3 years

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ATLA Q&A

Thanks to @ohmygodtheywereparabatai for tagging me!

Btw, this is the first time someone tagged me for this kind of things and im so scared lmao so I’ll try my best!

General questions:

1. What’s your favorite character?

Zhao, Lin, Kuvira, Tarrlok

Guess my type 👉👈

2. What’s your comfort character?

ZHAO, and I don’t know why. He’s just so powerful and so intelligent; I want him to protect me and spoil me, but also I want him to know that he’s really important to someone me and that i’ll literally would die for him. I want to hug him, feel how he’s startled at first, but then give up and hug me back.

Please help me.

3. Which element would you bend if you could chose?

In every quiz that I took, I’m a fire bender, but I really want to be an earth bender, and metal bender if that’s possible.

4. What’s your favorite nation?

Each nation has it’s unique things, so it’s really hard to choose one. I’ll choose Earth Kingdom here since it’s lively and pretty well-balanced (not too icy, not too dark, not too high)

5. What makes you love ATLA the most?

Actually, ATLA it’s not part of my childhood (I didn’t have nickelodeon when i was a kid!), but I started to use socialmedia, and got into fandoms, specially in tumblr, I saw many people talking about Avatar. I knew about this cartoon, but I didn’t really care because I thought “Meh, it’s just a gringada”. So when I started to watch it, I had really low expectations, but with only the first episode, I was going crazy.

Not just because of the animation (specially in the fights!), the first thing that really atracted me, but also all the cultural inspirations packed up without forcing it, without wanting to look “inclusive”.

In ATLA, I didn’t really pay attention to the story, but in TLOK... Boi, it’s just too beautiful. The story, the philosophy.*insert Pacha meme.png*

Could get you attacked questions:

1. What’s your least favorite character from the gaang?

KA TA RA

Actually it’s my least favorite character or ATLA. Why? Because she’s annoying. I know that she’s talented, intelligent, caring, brave and did a great job as the mom of the gaang, and I really understand that she, in fact, it’s a kid; but yeah, I consider her as annoying somethimes.

2. What character you think it’s severely underrated?

I won’t say that they are underrated, but I want to know more about the back stories of villains like Long Feng or Zhao of course. Also I would love to know more about the Bumis (king Bumi and Aang’s Son)

3. What’s your least favorite nation?

Wow, I just don’t know! Maybe by discard would be fire nation, but there’s no reason.

4. What’s your controversial ATLA opinion?

Well, I already told something controversial here in this post, and there’s another in the shipping questions 🙊

Shipping questions:

1. What’s your favorite ship and why?

I’m not really into shipping in ATLA, not because I don’t like it, but because I wasn’t interested. But if I have to choose, it would be Sukka, and from TLOK, KyaLin and Zhurrick

2. What’s your least favorite ship and why?

Maiko and Zutara, because these three characters has too much similarities (Mai And Zuko equally hate the world, and Katara and Zuko have family issues that can’t overcome), and I don’t like to ship characters that are too similar.

3. Do you sometimes self-insert?

You mean, always - Yes.

4. What’s your crack ship?

As I already said, I’m not really into shipping in ATLA, but sometimes I wonder if Long Feng with Katara or with Toph, and Korra and Kuvira would be interesting. Oohh and what about Tenzin with Tarrlock? Or Iroh II with Korra? Or Tahno with Korra?? Also, I support Korrlock

5. Which non canon ship would you make happen if you were the creator?

Dude, JINKO or Song with Zuko!

...

I had a lot of fun answering these questions, and since I don't really talk with people here, I invite anyone who sees this to take this q&a 💕

#atla #q&a #tlok #atla zhao #tlok kuvira #tlok lin beifong #tlok tarrlock

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phanspledent · 4 years

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Okay I love Legend of Korra

loookkkkk im not trying to discourse but i kinda get most of the gaang decisions for LOK? Idk maybe its just my personal opinion on the show as a whole! Hiding this under a break because I will not force people to read my long ass opinions on cartoons. If you subject yourself to this its on youuuu.

like I get Katara (who is an absolute badass but also went through an entire war at age 14) returning home to be a healer and help restore waterbending culture to the Southern Water Tribe, especially after Aang dies and she knows the next avatar will be a water bender. Katara who saved her culture, saved avatar Aang, helped save the world. Going home to rest, heal, and guide the next generation sits right with me. Also idk in the comics she is still adventuring and helping and leading the team as much as she did before. I always just thought that she went home after Korra was discovered or someone she loved died. There is no way in hell she decided to just be the avatar’s wife or retire as a healer early. Like she's 87 in LOK.... let the girl heal if she wants to.

And Toph! I get why people dont like Cop Toph! It seems out of her nature I know. But I can absolutely imagine Toph tracking down gangsters and literally teaching multiple generations the bending style she created, while working with her family. She would absolutely show off and sass every criminal who tried to step to her. Also the whole wander the world and end up in a swamp makes sense to me because 1. Toph is still connected to everyone, including her daughters, 2.Toph and mud and earth...match made in heaven, and 3. I like to headcanon her looking for enlightenment as something she does to feel close to Aang, maybe Sokka too, maybe even Iroh too. Reflect on the journey they had and become at peace. Also im sorry but the “do you really think friendships can last more than one lifetime” callback is too good to be mad at imo.

And Republic City as a whole is something I really like. I think its interesting to see the art deco style, the technology, the growing power that nonbenders have access to (outside of traditional warrior training). I found the equalist arc so interesting and terrifying. I understand the critiques of Americanization, that makes sense, but I think its in character for the Gaang (made up of all different nations) to want a place where all nation people can live in peace. Callback to Guru Pathik “The greatest illusion of this world is the illusion of separation. Things you think are separate and different are actually one and the same.”

And Aang. Idk if im stupid or missed it but like.... I never thought the show called Aang a bad father. Like I know Kya and Bumi felt neglected in comparison to Tenzin, but I think its realistic to show that Aang took a special interest in Tenzin’s education because he was literally all that was left of his entire culture. I also think that this doesnt mean he didnt love his other kids or was a bad father. Im sure he loved his kids!!! I dont see anything that says he doesnt. And I think that this conflict between the siblings is so natural and I love their relationship throughout seasons 2 and 3.

Also the whole lion turtle and Avatar Wan thing. I saw discourse that it broke canon because it was the badger moles, dragons, moon and tides, and bison who taught benders. I never saw these as in opposition to eachother?? I always thought it was like Lion Turtles who granted the bending. And after the spirits left, and the desecration of both populations of humans, and the lion turtles leaving, benders turned toward the natural world as both a creation myth and as guides. The Lion Turtles leave after the first generation or so of benders are given power. After Vaatu is defeated by Wan and Raava the Lion Turtles leave because they arent needed as protectors anymore. Thats where I thought the other myth came in because even though benders existed, how did they learn to harness and grow that power.

I think its futile to compare the two shows even though they take place in the same universe. The easter eggs are fun and good emotional callbacks that connect the two stories and give some context, but other than that... they couldnt be more different. They just dont line up in terms of main plot arc, how many main characters are developed, how big the setting is, how long each conflict arc lasts, the variety of main villians, and the timeline itself etc etc. This is absolutely just my opinion and doesnt have to be yours!!! TBH all I want is more content from both. I know its hard to see glimses of the original Gaang and I also wanted more explanation, more context, more concrete steps that show how they got to their places in LOK. But it irks me when people dismiss the show completely because they dont like the decisions made about the original Gaang. It isnt even their story anymore and thats kind of the whole point.

Also you are lying if you tell me you didnt cry at Jinora’s ceremony okay. Seriously one of my favorite parts of the entire avatar series.

#okay im done #idk man i love both shows #and honestly think LOK book 3/4 are better than ATLA 1 #LOK is a much more complicated story with more main characters #more different plotlines #shorter season arcs #it shouldnt feel like ATLA #legend of korra #lok #atla #avatar: the last airbender #aang #karara #zuko #sokka #if you dont like LOK thats fine #I just dont get automatically dismissing the show if you dont like that their isnt enough Gaang in it #like thats the point

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firelxdykatara · 3 years

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Katara hated Zuko. It was a plot point. Sokka never did--and their "friendship" in the show was close to becoming something more--so they were on equal footing and had hinted romance. Zutara is misogynistic--why are you forcing Katara into a relationship with someone she hates? Choose Toph or Suki if you really believe Zuko isn't gay.

there’s so much to unpack here, and i know i should really throw out the whole suitcase, but i just can’t help myself

and please, i beg of you, picture someone laughing so hard that tears are streaming down their face because that’s me right now, reading this ask. i about choked on my eggnog, so thanks for that!

point the first: sokka hated zuko every bit as much as katara did in the first two books. it was a plot point. sokka wanted to leave zuko to die because saving him wouldn’t have been worth the trouble--he was pragmatic and deeply distrustful of anyone who wasn’t in his immediate circle, and that went especially hard for anyone from the fire nation. including the birds!

point the first part two: sokka’s easy acceptance of zuko into the gaang had less to do with any budding friendship or caring for him (since there was none to speak of until the boiling rock episodes), and more to do with a lack of any personal grudge. aka: there was no tension there. nothing to really dig into--no true development of feelings. because aang needed a firebending teacher, zuko was around and willing to take on that role, and also he was a prime roasting target, so sokka was happy enough to let bygones be after he helped them take down combustion man.

which, of course, isn’t to say shipping them isn’t valid. there are plenty of ships that have little to no canon basis but a lot of fandom support, and that’s usually fine....until the fans start getting uppity about it and insisting that there Is Canon Basis Really, and then insisting that the ‘rival’ ship is misogynistic when their alleged ‘canon basis’ requires stripping everything meaningful from the girl’s relationship to the boy and giving it to her brother instead. which is exactly what you’re doing here, but i digress.

point the second: how on earth was sokka and zuko’s ‘friendship’ in the show (and why the scare quotes? were they not actually friends? are you really sitting in my inbox right now devaluing their platonic relationship because you don’t think it exists outside of your belief that they really wanted to fuck the whole time, despite sokka being in a happy relationship with someone else?) ‘close to becoming something more’? when did they ever have a single, solitary conversation that hinted at any ‘deeper’ feelings? sokka spent most of their buddy cop adventure to boiling rock mooning over his girlfriend (heh, get it? mooning? because he- oh, you get the point), to the point where he had literal hearteyes the instant he saw her--and zuko’s purpose there wasn’t to deepen his relationship with sokka so much as it was to reunite sokka and katara with their father, and to see an example of what a healthy paternal relationship actually looks like.

(one of my favorite shots in the show is zuko’s soft smile when sokka and katara are hugging hakoda)

so already your claim that they ‘had hinted romance’ falls incredibly flat, because there was absolutely nothing in the show that was ‘hinting’ they had romantic feelings for one another--in universe or out of it. sokka was happily in love with suki, and even the one scene that i can imagine might make shippers scream--when zuko popped into sokka’s tent late at night--sokka was about to have sex with his girlfriend, and when he asked zuko ‘what’s on your mind’, the first words out of his mouth were your sister.

(and then, as soon as zuko left, sokka was calling for suki again. the next morning, he was making a flower necklace--or a lei. because he got lei’d. it’s amazing the things you pick up when you rewatch the show as an adult lmfao.)

point the third (and this one is really where your argument blows up in your face): your insistence that zutara requires ‘forcing katara into a relationship with someone she hates’ reveals your own ignorance, because it’s demonstrably not true--unless you’re trying to argue that katara hated zuko all the way through to the end of the show, which??? i suppose makes it make more sense that you think zuko and sokka had a hinted romance in the text, because viewing comprehension clearly isn’t your strongsuit.

why are yall so quick to dismiss katara’s own feelings in the name of calling a fictional, noncanon ship ‘misogynistic’? because katara said, in the text, ‘but I am ready to forgive you’--and then she hugged zuko, called him into a group hug with the gaang later, joked (and even flirted) with him on ember island, helped talk him through his anxiety about facing his uncle, and happily agreed to go with him to face his sister, where she saved his life after watching him take a literal bolt of lightning to save hers.

if any of that had happened with sokka, yall would be calling it demonstrable evidence that zuko and sokka are in love. and yet when we use that canonical buildup and the deep bond of friendship and trust zuko and katara have by the end of the series to imagine them getting into a romantic relationship because of feelings developed during these events......you call us misogynistic? really? because we’re ‘forcing’ her into a relationship with someone she ‘hates’....except she didn’t hate him by the end of the series, they were very close friends and had gotten over and had closure from their personal baggage, and that’s the kind of stuff that provides excellent fuel for envisioning a romantic relationship developing!

so what was your argument again?

ETA: i was so busy deconstructing the bulk of your argument that i forgot to address that laughable last line--toph or suki? who had much, MUCH less relationship development with zuko than katara did?? ‘if you really believe zuko isn’t gay’???? im sorry that you can’t recognize a whole bisexual when you see one, but as a bi myself, i know that zuko’s dual-wielding ass couldn’t ‘pick a side’ if his life depended on it. and he had more romantic coding with both jet and katara than he ever had with sokka--that’s just a fact. sorry if the truth hurts, anon!

#atla #zutara #zuko #katara #zukka salt #zukka fandom salt #just covering my bases #sokka #salt for ts #asked #Anonymous

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